The American Spectator : The Girl Who Cried Racism

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The Girl Who Cried Racism

By Christopher Orlet on 11.23.09 @ 6:08AM

A textbook case for resentment studies.

Kennett, Missouri, is best known these days as the hometown of pop rock diva Sheryl Crow. Sheryl Crow and now Heather Ellis. The latter is no rock star, but she is a bona fide celebrity (or one famous for being famous). Ellis, 24, the celebrated Wal-Mart line-cutter, earned her 15-minutes of celebrity when she accused a Wal-Mart shopper, cashier, assistant store manager, security guard, and Kennett police officers of racism. By the second day of the trial -- which ended last Friday in a plea bargain -- it was clear from mainstream media coverage that pretty much the whole town of Kennett was racist.

The facts were these: Ellis, then a college student, was in line at the local Wal-Mart, when she decided her lane was moving too slowly. She then joined her cousin in a faster moving lane, cutting in front of a line of waiting customers. The customer she cut directly in front of, Teresa Kinder, objected, especially when Ellis repeatedly shoved Kinder's merchandise back down the conveyer belt. The assistant store manager and a security guard arrived and asked Ellis to leave. When she refused, police were called. Ellis was later placed under arrest, and charged with disturbing the peace, trespassing, resisting arrest, and felony assault of police officers.

Not surprisingly, there are two very different versions of what happened. Ellis and her aunt say she was pushed by Ms. Kinder and called racial slurs. They say police roughed her up, tore her jacket, and told her to "go back to the ghetto." Police, store management and witnesses, meanwhile, say that Ellis was belligerent, and that she kicked officer Albert Fisher in the shin and hit Sgt. Joe Stewart in the mouth, splitting his lip. Whatever the truth, it is obvious that a minor instance of rude behavior and bad manners escalated into a felony assault on a peace officer.

The mainstream media was quick to indict Kennett as a racist community. An ABC News headline read: "Heather Ellis Could Face Prison Time After Cutting the Line at Walmart." Not for assaulting police officers, mind you, but for "cutting the line." CNN's Randi Kaye went after the entire town of Kennett, accusing it of being "a community known for racial tension." CNN showed more bias when it suggestively referred to Kennett's "predominantly white police department." (In fact, Kennett has two minority cops, which accurately reflects the percentage of minorities in the town.) Groups like the American Civil Liberties Union and Southern Christian Leadership Conference noted that the town's police have been accused of racial profiling minority drivers, a charge that has been leveled, one time or another, at just about every American city and town with minorities.

Needless to say, racial tensions exploded after Ellis made her accusations. White supremacist groups began slithering into town to spread their hateful propaganda, while big name minority activists flew in from New York and Washington DC, to further heighten tensions. Ms. Ellis's father, a local Baptist preacher, called the trial a "big, racial discrimination cover-up," which seems an odd comment since trials are supposed to promote justice, not cover up the truth. (Perhaps the state judicial system is racist too?) Ellis and her various coalitions and supporters quickly hired the top criminal lawyers in St. Louis: Scott Rosenblum and T.J. Hunsaker. When asked by reporters to comment on the charge of racism, Rosenblum would say only: "I'm not going to go there."

The fact that Rosenblum and Hunsaker had to settle for a plea bargain suggests Ellis didn't have a prayer in beating the assault charge, regardless of the extenuating circumstances. In the end, Ellis was convicted of the lesser charges of resisting arrest and disturbing the peace. The plea bargain stipulates she must attend two hours of anger management class.

"MANNERS ARE OF MORE importance than laws," wrote Edmund Burke. "Upon them, in a great measure, the laws depend." But good manners are today considered passé, a quaint and spurious remnant of our dark past. So many of today's young people simply do not care how their rude or anti-social behavior affects others. It is almost like no one else exists but himself or herself. I experience this form of anti-social behavior on a daily basis, whether it is the young hoodlums in the street outside my window playing loud and obscene music at 3 a.m. or young people talking loudly and obscenely on their cell phones during a movie. And you can see where they get it. I have attended theater productions where adults bring their toddlers and allow them to chat endlessly throughout the performance, no doubt finding this behavior "cute."

If our young are not taught good manners, they are well-schooled in resentment studies, during which they learn the various benefits of victimhood and the importance of political correctness. Good manners will never get anyone 15 minutes of fame, but bad manners and crying racism is almost guaranteed to buy you fifteen minutes and then some.

The tragedy is that by rushing to Ellis's defense, by excusing her actions, and by concocting blanket racism charges against an entire community, the "various coalitions" and civil rights groups have done great damage to the laudable goal of combating racial prejudice.

Perhaps now that the rock star has returned home to Louisiana, the Ellis-and-mainstream-media-created racial tensions will cool and Kennett, Missouri, can get back to being what it was: a normal southern town trying to deal with serious economic problems.

topics:
Racism, Aggrieved Minorities, Edmund Burke

About the Author

Christopher Orlet writes every Thursday from St. Louis.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (130) | Leave a comment

Appleby| 11.23.09 @ 6:37AM

Everybody under the age of 25 has apparently been taught that he or she is Special, and thus exempt from all the rules the rest of us have to follow. And its not only Blacks up here; I had the privilege of being insulted by a Chinese teenager who accused me of bumping into her when she was behind me, jamming her way onto the subway car regardless of the people ahead of her.

But as long as Mommy and her lawyer show up every time Precious is called on her misbehaviour, the situation is going to continue. Parents, it is your call. Teach your kids to behave or live with filth and chaos from now til the close of the age.

Alan Brooks| 11.23.09 @ 10:59AM

you got it just so, Appleby. Plus:
Soma= "medical" marijuana. Yeah, right; 'medical'.
"Doc, I'm feeling aches and pains, and I..."

and Please don't say I'm cynical--
you would be correct, but cynical does not mean mistaken.

p.r.smit| 11.23.09 @ 3:49PM

for all of you who want to make a comment, please go and read the trial transcripts - they are public record. this was a case of one rogue cop, and stupid walmart employees gone wrong. the real shame is that when you have one or two rotten apples, the good folks won't actually stand up for what's right. the young lady in question did not cry "racism" - that was never an issue in the case if you read the transcripts. it was about people with bad attitudes and lack of diplomacy skills being given positions of power. the walmart manager was a complete idiot, and so was the cop who initiated the assault. the original prosecutor was the one who made a stupid racist remark that got published in the newspaper - not the defendant. if the prosecutor had told walmart to get their employee in check, and the police dept. to put their rogue cop (who had previous complaints, and was fired for his behavior) on permanent sick leave - none of this would have become an issue. but i pray now, that she sues the "h-ll" out of them all, because they deserve it.
this article here is typical, and expected - and of course, as usual, completely inaccurate.

Alan Brooks| 11.23.09 @ 5:37PM

We can sense how unbiased "smit" is, but not to the extent that he would provide us with a link to the transcripts.

Poor thing, she just cut in line and caused a scene. Someone does it at your office or shop, and you are so understanding, aren't you.
How BIG of you, Mister B.I.G.

Alan Brooks| 11.23.09 @ 5:48PM

'the young lady in question did not cry "racism" '

So what DID she cry? or did she remain silent?
You blacks are agitating, you are testing boundariesIf only we could see the look on your face when a white, Mexican, etc. gets in your face at your place of employment.

Alan Brooks| 11.23.09 @ 5:50PM

At one time others were your great enemies.
Now you are your own worst enemies.

Len| 11.23.09 @ 6:31PM

So the young woman in question did not cut in line?
So she did not resist arrest and assault a police officer? Naturally the split lip mysteriously came from nowhere.

Barry| 11.23.09 @ 9:07PM

Who do you sue when you make a plea deal, and they have the video, and all the witnesses, that would probably bring a counter suit. She got off lucky.

Ronald Ellis| 11.23.09 @ 7:08AM

A school teacher in Montgomery County, Maryland was accused of sexual assault by three black female students. He was white and married. He was immediately suspended. He had worked there 17 years I believe. After one year of investigations, the three black girls admitted they lied. It was not clear why they targeted that particular teacher. The teacher was devastated and when he was cleared was unable to continue to work. Many parents called the school board angry that he was reinstated and would not let their kids go to his class. Mind you, he was totally innocent. He had to retire and move. That's how racial justice works in this country and many blacks know it.

Mocking Bird| 11.23.09 @ 11:12AM

What exactly does the race of any of the parties matter in this case? I don't get it. Believe me, if three white girls accused a black man of sexually assaulting them -- well, I think people would take notice. But of course, you will reply, white girls would never lie about such a thing!

Big Leo| 11.23.09 @ 12:26PM

The race of the girls was mentioned because that was the race of the girls. If they were white, that would have been mentioned, too. It is this type of hypersensitivity to race that produces the false accusations of racism by race hucksters.

Douglas| 11.23.09 @ 1:17PM

Mocking Bird, WAKE UP AND READ THE ARTICLE. The whole thing was about race. The black girl brought up charges of racism.

Liberal Reader| 11.23.09 @ 2:33PM

Douglas --

Read the post I was responding to.

Big Leo --

You have to be kidding. By the way, you didn't point out YOUR race in your post. Is that because you don't have a race, or because it goes without saying?

Ronald Ellis| 11.23.09 @ 2:53PM

Some stupid comments here. Why was race mentioned? Because that's exactly what happened. As it happens there were black male teachers on staff at the school but they didn't accuse any of them. They targeted this teacher for a reason. By the way, even though they lied, they were not criminally charged. I can guarantee you that if the roles were reversed they would have been charged. Maybe that's the whole point.

Bydand76| 11.23.09 @ 3:25PM

I am going to ask you this here.

Are you going to suggest that there isnt a slant towards black people when racism is involved?

As a Scots-Irish Catholic Caucasian I am really curious in your response to this?

Grzmlyk| 11.23.09 @ 3:41PM

Hey, Bydand76, I'll answer for Liberal Reader because the fool isn't honest enough with himself to give you the straight dope.

If he were honest, he'd say this:

"You white people of privilege do not understand that we owe black people in this country. They can't make it on their own in this America, which YOU make so racist.

If they're rude, or obnoxious, or break a few rules, or aren't qualified for the jobs for which we hire them, or commit minor crimes, or commit major felonies, it is NOT THEIR FAULT. (I hope you see how non racist I, Liberal Reader, am. You see, I'm GOOD. You are not. But I AM GOOD. Repeat: I, Liberal Reader, am not a racist because I recognize that black people must never be judged on the content of their character and must never be held to YOUR standards of behavior.

Because we white people of privilege - well, YOU white people of privilege (because we've already established that, as a non-racist, I AM GOOD and YOU ARE NOT) are such bigots that you expect black people to behave like white people. You expect them to obey rules of etiquette, of law, of morality, of decency. But they're black. They can't.

We - well, you - are judgmental racists who refuse to allow them to behave like amoral thugs and selfish pricks. It's not the welfare society or white guilt that have dragged black culture into the sewer - the black culture that was conservative, proud, industrious, religious and repected excellence right up until LBJ built housing projects in every city in this country. Nope. It's YOU RACIST CRACKERS."

THAT is what Liberal Reader thinks - how do I know this, Liberal Reader? Because that is what NPR thinks. That is what the New York Times thinks (just ask Jason Blair). That is what ALL card-carrying, affirmative-action-loving, proud liberals think. It's called White Guilt. It's called Noblesse Oblige. It's called paying obeisance to Rousseau's three century-old concept of the "Noble Savage."

It's insidious, it's dishonest, and the minute the shit splashes up onto YOUR lilly white life, Liberal Reader, you will either surrender abjectly or suddenly understand what REAL goodness is. Cause right now, YOU are the problem.

The Truth| 11.23.09 @ 8:06PM

WELL PUT!! That is EXACTLY what these people are saying: Black people should not be held accountable for their actions, because they do not possess the abilities to carry themselves in a manner deemed civilized. What a racist attitiude for all of these people sticking up for Heather Ellis to have. African Americans everywhere should denounce Heather Ellis and race baiters like Boyd Watkins, Al Sharpton, and the ACLU...it's not that they don't believe that black people shouldn't have to act right, they don't believe that you CAN act right...and that's just WRONG.

martha| 11.23.09 @ 10:34PM

What took you guys so long? I figured out 25 years ago that Welfare is modern day slavery for Black people and that the Liberal attitude is the worst sort of racism for the exactly the same reason. It is the unspoken, implied insult that Blacks are too stupid to get out their own way, unfortunately for one mindset of Blacks, and some Whites I might add, it has become a self fulfilling prophecy. I know plenty of Black families who do not subscribe to the victim mentality, and by some miracle, they seem to do very well for themselves. Amazing is'nt it?
On a side note-I spent the years 1956-1969 living in a housing projects in Brooklyn, way before LBJ thought to build any. The difference then was there was a code of conduct to continue to live there, and more importantly-FATHERS IN THE HOME!
It was at that time 98% White working class. WITH FATHERS WHO WENT TO WORK EVERYDAY!
When I was a kid, being on Welfare or "Relief" was something to be ashamed of. We need to get back to that way of thinking. Of course it would help if the Go'vt would stop being such an enabler.

Bob| 11.24.09 @ 7:37PM

Martha is right on target. Slavery on the plantation was deplorable, but it's not the worst blacks have endured. Slavery to the welfare system and victim mentality is the worst. And the perpetrators are misguided civil rights activists and politicians.

Darin| 11.23.09 @ 7:12AM

When every kid is given a trophy or ribbon just for participating (and sometimes not even for doing that much), an entitlement mentality is assured. When you add in a victim mentality often taught to [insert group name here], you add fuel to the fire.

In this case, I have to wonder if anyone brought attention to the fact that what Miss Ellis did was rude and wrong. The best way to drive this point home is to ask someone how they would react if it were done to them. What if she had been waiting in line for 15 minutes and someone just inserted themselves in front of her. Sometimes this makes the light bulb go on and they realize their mistake, but most are incapable of figuring it out.

shera| 11.23.09 @ 7:43AM

Similar to the way the media made Clinton's impeachment all about sex when the real issue was about him LYING UNDER OATH.

Yes, I know this isn't about Clinton. I'm just giving an example of how the media completely changes a story to fit their agenda.

martin j smith| 11.23.09 @ 8:23AM

The media is very dangerous to our society. They should be monitored just Like Pravda and Izvestia and TASS were monitored during the Cold War. But, the should not be watched-yeah--Boycotted . That is a good idea!!! The fewer viewers,the less money for their sponsors the better. Money talks

hunter | 11.23.09 @ 7:48AM

Its plain who the racists are. ABC, CNN and all the liberal media who are in the same cess pool of despair, desperately seeking a hot news item, even if they have to flame any warm ember, hoping to get a flame. If only these dying media bastards would take a hint. Report the news, not what you wish would happen. Such Desperation!

Nunya Bizness| 11.23.09 @ 8:11AM

It's the MEDIA, stupid.

melvin| 11.23.09 @ 8:17AM

What is it with WalMarts and Chuckey Cheese's that seem to bring the worst out in people?
Look at what happened in Raleigh, Durham NC with the Duke Lacaross rape case.
Crystal Gail Mangum falsely accused three white students who attended Duke University of rape.
It was proved beyond a Shadow of a doubt that his black woman was lying and made the whole story up for her fifteen minutes of fame and book
deals.
Some civil rights organizations in NC still to this day have the attitude of, "Yea, rich white boys got over because their parents are rich."
Mike Nifong former and disgraced District Attorney figured this case was going to be his launching pad for a political career and pursued it to the very end, despite overwhelming evidence that this woman falsely accused these students.
To this very day no one including Crystal Gail Mangum has ever publicly apologized or even charged with make a false statement to police.
Not one of the esteemed civil rights organization that was leading the lynch mob along with the media in calling for the hanging of these students, nada, nothing, zilch.
All that was absent was the burning torches, rope and the tree limb to swing the three ropes over. I don't care about P/C, given the chance, many blacks in Raleigh, Durham area wanted vengeance and they would have lynched those students in a heartbeat.

Louis Jenkins| 11.23.09 @ 8:34AM

Couldn't agree more. Isn't it strange how quickly this episode was buried away from view. I've seen it in the workplace. The offending (WASP) is accused, and they're left with the pieces of a career, or life, regardless of the facts. Salem Witch Trials continue in this modern day.

martin j smith| 11.23.09 @ 8:18AM

This article --if the facts are accurate is a prime example of why we have a bunch of malcontents running our country. We are prisoners of PC and a organization 0f politicians and media that are deadly to our society. This is the way I am thinking. Have a camera cellphone at the ready. Record events that could be legally or politcally problematic. I hope one day there is( and for all I know there might already be one ) a legal team to fight frivolous so called civil rights or other claims in court. I am also not aware of the legal niceties of libel but going after libelous individuals and other should considered. I think its time to organize to fight back. That in some cases there is discrimination could be true--but it also true that there are growing number of instances which are false claims and outright libel.
The cases presented as the potential for this type of example.

Margie| 11.23.09 @ 10:15PM

In case you've never heard of them, go here:
(They are the opposite of the ACLU and are awesome lawyers for righteousness.)
http://www.aclj.org/?r=acljg&a.....5QodVR5clw

Sajo33| 11.23.09 @ 8:25AM

Was in a very crowded movie last night. The two black teenagers in front of me got up at least 10 times. The two black women next to me talked non-stop. Why come to a movie if you're not going to watch it?

Lots of rudeness out there but in my town at least, the blacks seem to be going out of their way to display their lack of manners, integrity and human decency.

daddio| 11.23.09 @ 10:27AM

Seems to not be limited to race-I see it from anyone under about 40 years of age. They are just completely clueless about how to get along with other people.

Dean| 11.23.09 @ 2:14PM

Rudeness is not a racial issue, age issue or gender issue, it's a societal issue. We've created a "Me First" mentality that permeates all phases of society. As long as I get what I think is coming to me, that's all that matters.

You may feel the need to call out blacks, but the rudest thing we've seen in the last year or so was the robbing and pillaging of our 401Ks by a bunch of rude, selfish, predominantly white guys.

winsom| 11.23.09 @ 8:26AM

Just like a casino, isn't every checkout line & register under video survellence? Isn't this where the story was laways bound to end up? Certainly Walmart and the Police are aware of the systems...

Grzmlyk| 11.23.09 @ 8:45AM

The only group that is capable of evil in this country is white American males of European descent. Blacks, "Hispanics," Asians, Native Americans and extraterrestrials only commit crimes because whitey's oppression (the result of selfishi imperialism and testosterone-fueled hate) made them do it.

The sooner we liquidate all white American males from the planet, the sooner we return to Eden.

Haven't "you people" learned anything?

daddio| 11.23.09 @ 10:47AM

I hope you are being sarcastic :O

Grzmlyk| 11.23.09 @ 11:42AM

It depresses me greatly that anyone who visits this site would think the above wasn't sarcasm. My god.

Just so you know: IT WAS SARCASM.

Chuckd| 11.23.09 @ 12:36PM

Grzmlyk

To be fair to daddio, sarcasm is getting harder and harder to spot. Even at TAS. I thought your comment was spot on.

It is exactly how the liberal elites in this country think. You could have written and submitted your comment into an essay at any American Public University and been taken seriously. Probably get an A for it, I imagine.

Grzmlyk| 11.23.09 @ 1:12PM

You have a point, Chuckd.

But I don't think I'd have gotten an "A" had I submitted this at a university.

The professor would quickly take me aside and whisper in my ear, "Of COURSE that's what we superior elites THINK - but we can never be honest about our opinions! After all, lying about our true thoughts and intentions is rule #1 of being a liberal!"

daddio| 11.23.09 @ 2:40PM

You just never know anymore :)

Grzmlyk| 11.23.09 @ 4:16PM

I know, daddio. That's what's so depressing!

Dewey| 11.23.09 @ 9:10AM

Ellis was offered a plea deal a year ago, then again 10 days before the trial and both times turned the plea down. She then excepted the plea while the jury was deliberating after giving her testimony earlier in the day. She told the media that she had intended to accept the plea all along, but wanted to get her side of the story heard. She wasted the court and juries time and should have to reimburse that through a stiff fine.

Art C| 11.23.09 @ 7:22PM

She took a plea basically just to end it . In NYS a judge will not accept a plea just to end it. You better be guilty or shame on you . I've seen judges reject pleas for less

Jackumup| 11.23.09 @ 9:45AM

This country spend entirely to much time and resources on race issues, minorities do not contribute enough to the well being of society to justify the actions and opportunities that are afforded to them.

We as a nation must demand to our legislators the removal of civil rights laws to stem this national tragedy

Liberal Reader| 11.23.09 @ 11:07AM

Thank you, Herr Goebbels. At least someone's not "afraid to say it."

But from one American to another, I was just sort of wondering why you don't go fuck yourself.

ChuckD| 11.23.09 @ 12:40PM

What a thought provoking comment. That f- you really convinced me. How brilliant you are. I bet you went to a big college and got an A in every subject. what a smash down. I wouldn't want to mess with you in a debate.

Liberal Reader| 11.23.09 @ 2:19PM

There's no point reasoning with a bigot.

Ray| 11.23.09 @ 2:41PM

So it's better to use profanity to insult them instead? How is that a more reasonable approach to bigotry?

martin j smith| 11.23.09 @ 3:26PM

You call for reason: wow even a cave man looking at your post using F----u can see no reason in your words
I think LR and Jackumup make quite a team. The truth I believe it is use of race as a political ploy. It has nothing to do with spending time on"minorities". But what it has to do with is stuff like: a) a distorted sense of "entitlement" and b)the use of the "race card" --to refer to the issue of race no matter its relevance to the issue. A perfect example is use accusation of racism when Obama is criticized . That is what the problem is. Then there are the cowardly politicians who pander to the race "industry". To be sure there are people who hate people not of their own race in all political parties. Yes a black can be a racist and a bigot too. My sense of the original article is that this is a story of a person with a warped sense of entitlement who made use of the "race card: industry and the law enforcement folks placated. This the problem in a nutshell.

martha| 11.23.09 @ 10:45PM

My G-D is that your whole arguement? You are pathetic!
There were many other points you could've made but telling him just to go "Fuck himself" is not an arguement, it's a 3rd grade insult.
C'mon Libby boy- come up with a reasoned thought out arguement, or are you incapable of anything more than what you said?

A. Smith| 11.23.09 @ 10:09AM

"Lots of rudeness out there but in my town at least, the blacks seem to be going out of their way to display their lack of manners, integrity and human decency. "

NOT just blacks, but white trash and hispanics who watch to much MTV and network "reality
TV" and try also to emulate rap culture.

BYW< I have not been to a movie after 4pm (empty matinees are the ONLY to see a movie) in 20 years or so and have not been to any movie in the last 6 years. Yes, the bad movie manners have been going on years!

Liberal Reader| 11.23.09 @ 11:05AM

Funny ... I listen to NPR and read The Times every day (and if these aren't outlets of the so-called "MSM," then what are?) and I've never even heard of this story.

Maybe it wasn't such a big deal? Maybe not. But if the prevailing narrative around here about the so-called "MSM" were true, there would have been enough coverage to have caught my eye. That I'm sure of.

A few questions:

Rush Limbaugh earns tens of millions a year being broadcasted across the country; so do Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity. Are they "MSM"? Is Fox News, which has more viewers than MSNBC?

What qualifies as "main stream" in the first place?

Does the Moony publication, The Washington Times, which is owned by a man who claims to be the second coming of Christ, qualify? Maybe if the Christ gave tens of millions to the Democrats and obliged their caucus to sit through his ordination as King of the Universe, as he did the Republicans, there'd be more to the charge.

Sarah Palin is a creature of the main stream media. Her book is being published by the second largest media concern in the world; her name was made on television, and in the end she is not all the different from any other television personality. Her would-be future son-in-law's appearance in Playgirl: is that part of the MSM?

Grzmlyk| 11.23.09 @ 11:46AM

Liberal Reader, you listen to NPR and read the NY Times every day? WHAT A SHOCK! Whoa! Who would have guessed?

How's life inside that cocoon, by the way? Getting enough air?

So if NPR or the Times doesn't cover something, it clearly didn't happen or if it did, well, if NPR and the Times doesn't feel it's important enough to print, then that's good enough for me!!!!!

Just wondering: Ever hear of the Duke rape case?

You really can't think for yourself for even a moment, can you?

Liberal Reader| 11.23.09 @ 2:23PM

Grzmlyk --

Even for you, this is a poor response to my post.

Read what I wrote again. My point was NOT that it did not happen because it was not in the Times or on NPR. My question, rather, was how this story could be characterized as having been a big deal in the "MSM" if it was NOT featured by either of these two news organizations.

As for being in a cocoon, I think the fact that I show up here regularly and read conservative articles and posts belies that idea.

I also read other conservative sources.

But your comment also betrays a certain ignorance about how NPR and the Times work.

These two organizations COMPETE with one another fiercely. They may (do) both have a liberal sway, but that does not mean they simply echo one another. Quite the contrary is true. "Cocoon" is not really an appropriate metaphor.

Ray| 11.23.09 @ 2:55PM

BTW, The New York Times DID cover this, but I guess you missed that issue, dated November 16, 2009. So much for you "not covered by the MSM" theory.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponlin.....-Race.html

Ry| 11.23.09 @ 2:59PM

Oh, and it turned out that NPR ALSO covered this. Once again, dated November 16, 2009. I guess you were sleeping that day, all day, and missed that as well.

http://www.npr.org/templates/s.....=120447909

JimE| 11.23.09 @ 6:02PM

NPR is subsidized with taxpayer money, they aren't completeing with anyone idiot.

Liberal Reader| 11.23.09 @ 6:40PM

Jim --

NPR gets less the 5% of its money from state and federal grants.

But that has nothing to do with whether or not the organization competes with other news organizations, which of course it does.

Ray --

Thanks for the links. I don't read EVERYTHING that gets published, or spend 24 hours a day listening to the radio. I still don't think it was a major story, but whatever. I'll concede the point.

Grzmlyk| 11.23.09 @ 7:14PM

You are talking out your ass as usual.

First off, you DO live in a cocoon made of the gossamer of your own self-satisfied platitudes.

Second, just because you decree something doesn't make it true, moron. I know what I'm talking about when it comes to the media.

NPR listeners and NY Times readers overlap almost entirely. In case you haven't noticed, one is a print medium and the other is radio. The two orgs do not compete for consumer dollars; as you know, because NPR is government-funded (yet another example of bullshit hypocrisy of liberals - public television and radio were foisted on the public in the 60s so that "poor people" would have access to "educational" content. HAH! Monolithic propaganda is more accurate. And the poorest person who watches or listens to this is someone just like YOU, who has never known a moment in which you weren't swaddled in privilege.

And your supposed "clarification" of your point is EXACTLY the same point I was addressing, you naif. Jesus christ, you can't even see that?

I repeat: You live in a cocoon. You don't come here to gain other points of view, you come here to dispense what you think is your wisdom, so don't even try to misrepresent yourself. Tell me ONE thing you've changed your mind about since coming to this site, moving your perspective from the liberal to the conservative point of view. Yeah. That's what I thought.

You know, liberal reader, you are evolving. You used to just be a naive, misinformed babe in the woods. Now you're a lying weasel.

You may go far in liberal circles.

martha| 11.23.09 @ 10:49PM

Do "Poor " people shell out 150.00 dollars when PBS has those oh-so-obnoxious pledge drives every other week, just to get some cheesy tote bag you can tuck your NY Times in and show every other smug self satisfied Lib on the Lexington Ave Express how "Sophisticated" and "Cultured" you are?
Gag!

Duke927| 11.24.09 @ 12:42AM

Want to see a Liberal(reader) froth at the mouth and become hysterical. Just mention Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck with a side of BOR and Anne Coulter. Really pushes their buttons. Yep NPR and the NYT real non-partisan non-biased news reporting on revue.

Ray| 11.23.09 @ 2:47PM

What does Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, and The Washington Times, or any other conse4rvitive news source or commentator have to do with the facts at hand? Nothing, other than revealing your own personal bias. How does it feel to be a political bigot?

The author explicitly cited ABC and CNN, yet you claim you never heard of this story before. It's apparent that you're ether very forgetful, never watch CNN, or you never bothered to look up the story cited on the networks mentioned. I wonder why this is? Could it be you're letting your own political bias influence your reasoning?

Liberal Reader| 11.23.09 @ 6:42PM

I'm a "political bigot"?

What the hell is a political bigot?

You mean someone who disagrees with you about politics?

Your reasoning here is all jumbled and incoherent. But whatever. It was a major story if you say so. I still don't see the point of the whole debate.

martin j smith| 11.23.09 @ 3:32PM

I know I am waisting time on LR but this is not for LR but for those who see LR for what s/he is: a waist of time.
Reading the NYT and listening to NPR-- it shows in your posts. So big deal. By the way my definition of MSM is this: This term has the political connotation of being "in the tank" with the Democrat Left". This is true. Just read LR.
So the MSM are the TV,Cable,Newspapers,Magazines etc who are in the tank so to speak for OBama and the Democratic Left agenda. It has nothing to do with money. It has everything to do with politics.

Liberal Reader| 11.23.09 @ 6:44PM

You mean to say this:

Any organization, institution, publication, or profession that makes information public is part of a liberal conspiracy to destroy the country.

Any organization that bases its news on opinions held by Dr. Rushmore Limbaugh, world-renowned economist, historian, and philosopher -- is unbiased and "fair and balanced."

I know, Martin. I know, I know. I've heard it all before.

victor| 11.24.09 @ 12:27AM

"Any organization that bases its news on opinions held by Dr. Rushmore Limbaugh, world-renowned economist, historian, and philosopher -- is unbiased and "fair and balanced." "
Finally you agree with Rush. He's right when he says that he needs no balancing, because he is Balanace.
Welcome to the Right side.

Margie| 11.23.09 @ 10:42PM

No, no, NO! It's the Lame Stream Media (LSM).

As for Rush Limbaugh, well we all know he is in a class all his own. He runs the EIB, Excellence In Broadcasting Network. He also has talent on loan from God. Not to be matched by any earthly person or entity in the LSM.
Beck, Hannity and Fox News are also in a class by themselves and are NOT part of the LSM by definition because they also have brains.
Sarah Palin is not, as you say, a creature of the LSM, but is a creature of God, also has brains, and can beat the bullcrap out of any of you imbecilic Liberals any time, any day.
Does that help, Liberal Reader?

Margie| 11.24.09 @ 12:10PM

*I wish to amend my saying "you imbecilic Liberals" to "imbecilic thinking Liberals." I'm separating the person from the thinking of the person. Obviously Liberal Reader and other Liberal thinkers are God loved people, it's just that they're thinking is all wrong.
I mean that sincerely.
There is a saying.. "God accepts us the way we are, but He wants to change a few things."
If we're Christians, we're called on to "put on the mind of Christ." 1 Cor. 2:16.

Melvin| 11.23.09 @ 11:17AM

Much of this that can be attributed to the, "Thug Culture." The same thug culture that glorifies the ownership of women, glorifies the use of violence, and glorifies dog fighting.
Thug culture is the ultimate form of rebellion, and in our face, "Watcha goin to do about it?" Women of all races demand respect and all kinds of equality laws to protect them, but in thug videos these women shake their butts to the highest bidder, and not a word from the National Organization of Women, and the holier than though civil rights groups, not a word either. If anything many heads of these civil rights organizations can be seen socializing and attending thug parties and music events, if you can call that crap music.
So as long as Madison Avenue and Wall Street make money, which creates a paradox of free market and civility in society is anyones guess where this will ultimately end up.

Anthony| 11.23.09 @ 11:32AM

Mr. Orlet, Assuming your facts are correct, an assault on TWO police offcers, one resulting in a split lip, would result in substancial jail time for any other offender.
The fact that the prosecutor, as well as the judge, would allow a plea bargain to substancially reduced charges, to wit, resisting arrest and disturbing the peace, after trial had started, is a gross miscarriage of justice. Where I practice law, once trial has started, the defendant is on his/ her own and no deal, once rejected, is ever allowed to be reinstated by the court.
You state in your article that Ms."Manners" aka Ellis was sentenced to participate in 2 hours of anger management, is that ALL? Did she receive a suspended jail sentence with this as a condition of probation, or was this part of a diversionary program that results in dismissal of the charges if conditions of probation are met? It's important to know these details.
Finally, I reject your premise that this incident is merely a product of bad manners. Criminal behavior, especially that which results in felony assaults, is NOT a result of bad manners, rather, it is the product of severe anti-social behavior, of which bad manners is just a small fraction of a complete anti-social attitude.
It is clear from this incident and thousands of others, including the recent incident in Cambridge Mass., that racial tensions have not dissipated with the election of our "post racial" president. Another leftist tropism exposed for its absurd result; political correctness and its double standard, is a license to behave badly, it's common sense 101, which liberals have failed to grasp all through human history.

Lu D| 11.23.09 @ 11:39AM

If people think this Country so terrible and racist, they have a choice to leave it. We should take up a collection to send anyone that is displeased to go back to their tribes in Africa. I wish them happiness at last in their new residence.

Pete| 11.23.09 @ 11:54AM

To whom would they complain when a competing tribe ate the offending person? No cops, no lawyers, no press.

But on a more serious note, this kind of stuff happens every day in the workplace. There are people (black, white and everything in between) who have made a career out of exploiting these racial hypersensitivities. They should be marked like sexual predators so they can't move from company to company extracting large sums in bogus lawsuits.

Melvin| 11.23.09 @ 11:57AM

Lu D that isn't going to work because Africa wouldn't have American Blacks. I've spent time in Kenya, mainly Mombasa and many Kenyan businessmen and businesswomen were universal in their attitude to towards Black Americans, because they whine too much and are spoiled, "Your Black American friends think they are poor and oppressed, look around you here in Kenya outside of Mombasa that is poverty."
It surprised me how adamant Kenyans were in their views about Americans Blacks coming to visit an African nation.
These Kenyans business people were not pissed off, but really, really annoyed because American Blacks had no idea what real poverty was as it was in Africa.

daddio| 11.23.09 @ 2:44PM

I think what we suffer in this country is more of a moral and intellectual poverty rather than a true world class physical poverty.

martha| 11.23.09 @ 10:52PM

I've heard that from African Immigrants as well, and they do not the morals(or lack thereof) of American Blacks either

JCH| 11.23.09 @ 12:04PM

Doesn't matter since NOV 08 what the facts are. Black Democrats are now in charge. Whites must pay. Any/All questions may not be "axed" as they will be considered racist and lawsuits may follow. [Glad to help]

Liberal Reason| 11.23.09 @ 2:30PM

Yes, JCH.

Clearly, blacks control America. Just look at the Senate and any photograph of the CEOs on Wall St. that just took the taxpayer for a trillion dollars.

ALL A BUNCH OF BLACK THUGS.

You thought ACORN was bad? Wait til you get ahold of the House of Representatives, which now looks like a gathering at Rev. Wright's Chicago Church!

Next thing you know they'll want the vote!

Lu D| 11.23.09 @ 12:07PM

Thanks Melvin. Its good to know that the Africans are smarter and have more common sense that the whinney, gimmie people we are suck with.

Liberal Reader| 11.23.09 @ 2:26PM

"...we are suck with"

Well ... it's just reassuring to see the naturally superior intelligence of whites is not in decline, Lu D. You're a perfect example of why white privilege is not only justified but necessary.

victor| 11.24.09 @ 12:33AM

So sayeth the Dear Reader, proud, card carrying member of the Shpelling Geshtapo.
When der Reader says: We is de Master race, We Heil — , Heil —, Right in the Reader's face.
Not to love the Reader is a great disgrace,

tailgunner| 11.23.09 @ 1:40PM

Ellis is the only racist in this matter.

Paul Weston| 11.23.09 @ 1:54PM

Liberal Reader is surprised to hear about the existance of a story not covered by the NYT.

I understand readers of the Times were shocked to discover Van Jones no longer worked at the White House.

They were shocked of course, because the Times had failed to inform them of his Communist past, a reality much debated in the "right wing" press.

In the UK we have the BBC to watch if we no longer wish to know what really goes on in the big bad world.

Liberal Reader| 11.23.09 @ 2:25PM

Paul --

Like Grzmlyk, you completely misread my post. You're responding to the template liberal you have scored in your head.

Liberal Reader| 11.23.09 @ 2:37PM

Your understanding of what NY Times readers were "shocked" to learn seems a little shaky.

How did you learn about this alleged response?

More importantly, how did you learn about the Van Jones story at all? From an objective news source like Sean Hannity or legendary investigative journalist Glenn Beck?

Sir, only a complete IDIOT believes what they hear on the Glenn Beck show. I mean, Jesus Christ. The man is a blubbering, repulsive, porcine-eyed hysteric.

Cervantes| 11.23.09 @ 3:43PM

You stupid fuck!

Only an idiot like yourself would sit here and try to say that the NY commie Times and NPR are great resources for information

Fuckin Moron

You are the only racist here because you allow this crap to happen ( I am assuming you are a white dude)

Wake up Puto!
Sorry, loser! The facts remain the same.

Duke rape case
Black Cambridge prof hits white woman over white privledge
The Ellis fiasco.
White cop getin trouble with the Obama idiot because he insults a black man in his house.
Jimmie Carter: white people who disagree with Obama are racist

I can go on and on here you liberal jackass!

Why dont you go suck on Chris Matthews or Kieth Olbermanns some more you little piece of socialist liberal shit!

Melvin| 11.23.09 @ 7:10PM

"The man is a blubbering, repulsive, porcine-eyed hysteric."
Are you sure your not talking about Chris Matthews?

Liberal Reader| 11.23.09 @ 9:25PM

Sorry. Matthews isn't porcine-eyed, or, as far as it goes, particularly repulsive.

Loud-mouthed, intemperate, a bit crazy, yes. Blubbering, no. Repulsive, no. Pig-eyed, no.

victor| 11.24.09 @ 12:35AM

Ah, yes, they always say that Love is Blind!

Margie| 11.24.09 @ 12:47AM

But the man is so girly, LiBRead. He gets that trickle running down his leg and all. Or is that a tickle. No, wait. A tingle, yeah, that's it.
A tingle when hears hears Obama's voice.

tailgunner| 11.23.09 @ 9:24PM

"The man is a blubbering, repulsive, porcine-eyed hysteric."

Ya think he and Ed Schultz might have been separated at birth?

Just askin'.

Liberal Reader| 11.23.09 @ 9:51PM

tailgunner --

Could be. I'll admit it.

Listen:

I cannot STAND cable news opinion shows, for the most part. Again: give me sober, somber old Jim Lehrer for television news. I don't need entertainment from these people, tailgunner.

victor| 11.24.09 @ 12:40AM

Sober and Jim Lehrer should never be in th esame sentence.
Like saying upright and Dear Reader.
I always picture Dear Reader lying in a prone position before a large bust of Dear Leader and his concubine waving to their adoring masses.
Sort of like Juan and Evita.
Or maybe Fred and Ginger.
with heavy tans.

Jeremiah| 11.24.09 @ 11:26PM

You forgot to mention that he was also right. Beck is part of an institution, organization, publication and profession that actually does make accurate information public. You might try it some time. Unfortunately the NY Times and NPR are busy trying to hide various inconvenient truths - such as the global warming hoax, Van Jones, the Acorn tapes, etc.

If you checked out some outlets that actually convey some real info it might relieve you of your annoying temporal provincialism.

Retired Veteran| 11.23.09 @ 2:30PM

I wonder if Ellis' behavior would be allowed under sharia law...

Anthony| 11.23.09 @ 4:56PM

An excellent question, however, it would be hard to identify Ms. Ellis because she would be hidden under her burka.
P.S. Thanks for your service, I hope you don't think it was all in vain.

jcrue| 11.23.09 @ 3:00PM

America has now produced at least two generations of post-WWII children who have grown up with a sense of entitlement to perpetual adolescence. There are vast wellsprings of immaturity, irresponsibility and selfishness in these generations, and their children are the proof. – Laura Hirschfeld Hollis

Gerald Stephens| 11.23.09 @ 3:40PM

PASSING HISTORY

Race 'pimping' is in fashion at the moment among the warped and their media. The KKK and being 'red neck' were likewise an uplifting experience for some at one time.

Like all pimps they extort their 15 minutes and of course 'compensation'. And they were seriously emboldened by 'dear leader' and choir of his 'righteous' fellow travelers.

This too will pass. In the interim I think a few well chosen civil cases prosecuted against the pimps for of hate speech crimes will help move the process forward.

Try it. You may like it.

Gerald Stephens
Hartford, CT

Tyrant Bob| 11.23.09 @ 3:40PM

Personally, I blame the 60s for a lot of today's societal woes. The baby boomers of the 60s eventually became older, but still acted like children, had children, and taught them it's okay to remain as spoiled children.

Joe| 11.23.09 @ 3:56PM

And Liberal Reader since you are obviously a bigot you think we should not mess with you and tell you to !@#$%

JimE| 11.23.09 @ 6:04PM

Let us remember last year's stampede by blacks at wal-mart which ended in death, negroism at it's best.

Liberal Reader| 11.23.09 @ 6:37PM

What amazes me is that you have space for "the girl who cried racism" (a la the boy who cried wolf), but when do you have time for a story in which a black woman is actually maltreated because of her race?

Does this never happen in our society? Are all claims of racism instances of "the boy who cried wolf"?

It seems to me that this is the argument here; and yes, it is racist -- inherently -- to claim that racism does not exist in our society.

Melvin Leppla| 11.23.09 @ 7:09PM

If you are so worried about black women suffering, then why are black females in thug videos treated as property instead of human beings?
I don't see too many blacks concerned about that.

Liberal Reader| 11.23.09 @ 9:16PM

Melvin --

There are plenty of black people who are appalled by rap videos. Do you know any black people, you twit?

But how does this answer my question. If the American Spectator is willing to trumpet to the skies a case in which racism may NOT have been a problem, why does it NEVER print a story when it is? Is the overall agenda to promote the notion that black people are NEVER discriminated against? I think it is.

victor| 11.24.09 @ 12:43AM

"There are plenty of black people who are appalled by rap videos. Do you know any black people, you twit?"

Not enough to cause (C)rap to die a well deserved death.
Or its practitioners. Though they seem to try really hard themselves, don't they?

ChuckD| 11.24.09 @ 10:50AM

The argument here is that racism is racism and it's a two way street-unlike liberal fantasists like yourself who adhere to the philosophy of ethical resistance and claim that "white privilege” makes it impossible for black racism to exist.

Melvin| 11.23.09 @ 7:21PM

Liberal Reader by reading many of your posts, you seem not to have all that much confidence in black Americans.
The way you portray these Americans that they are totally incapable of managing their own lives.
They need this sort of help and that sort of help, blacks are unable to hold a job so therefore they need special privileges, lower scholastic test scores and the list goes on.
After all wasn't it the Southern Democrats that fought tooth and nail not to pass the Civil Rights
Act?
It seems that you are so wrapped up with the pity party that you are ubable to see the many accomplishments that black Americans have contributed to this Country, these accomplishments are many and varied.
Granted there are is a large percentage of black Americans that fall under the umbrella of pity that you paint, and unfortunately this percentage garners all the attention and not those black Americans who work hard, raise families, and just trying to make do like everyone else.

Liberal Reader| 11.23.09 @ 9:22PM

Melvin --

You are wrong about a great many topics.

1. Southern conservative Democrats -- who have long since become Republicans -- supported segregation and were opposed to civil rights legislation. SO WERE conservative Republicans in the north and out west.

2. LIBERAL Democrats -- mostly from the north, but some from the south -- and LIBERAL Republicans (there used to be such a thing) were anti-segregation and for civil rights legislation.

Race politics have largely created the two parties we have now. The anti-segregationists flocked to the Republicans; Nixon welcomed them with open arms. (Some more scrupulous men, like George H W Bush, despised the newcomers.)

Meanwhile the Democrats took on the civil rights agenda. The Democrats (again, with some Republican help from the NORTHEAST, not the south) sponsored, fought for, and passed most of the major civil rights laws -- especially those that did unconscionably un-American things like guarantee blacks the right TO VOTE.

STOP getting your American history lessons on talk radio!!!! Read a book, for the LOVE of GOD.

albert constantine, jr.| 11.23.09 @ 11:09PM

Albert Gore Sr. did not go to his grave as a registered Republican. Nor do I believe that the former Ku Klux Klan recruiter Robert Byrd has ever embraced membership in the Republican Party, though I do recall his announcement of his racial views a few years back on Fox News Sunday. I don't recall Fulbright being a Republican, and if I recall early 1972 correctly, George Wallace was campaigning for the Democratic presidential nomination when he was shot and paralyzed (though he ran in 1968 as a member of the American Party).

victor| 11.24.09 @ 12:48AM

Neither did 98% of the men who signed the Southern Manifesto in 1956.
They lived and died as democrats.
http://www.milestonedocuments......e=fulltext

victor| 11.24.09 @ 12:48AM

Neither did 98% of the men who signed the Southern Manifesto in 1956.
They lived and died as democrats.
http://www.milestonedocuments......e=fulltext

Margie| 11.24.09 @ 12:50AM

Liberal Reader is not known for telling the truth. He is a truth teller in his own mind though.

ChuckD| 11.25.09 @ 2:02PM

More liberal black and white thinking. Are you capable of nuanced thought. No you're not because you have only read history written by like minded liberals like yourself.

A majority of the Southern Democrats who opposed the 1964 civil rights law where neither racists nor segregationists.

They opposed the law because it clearly violated the tenth amendment of the US Constitution. Many Southern Democrats wanted to end jim crow and inequality, but believed that it had to be done through the state legislature. Johnson's lawyers managed wrap the civil rights bill around the interstate commerce clause and basically nullify the tenth amendment. The 64 civil rights bill did much to bring long delayed justice and equality to the African Americans in the south.

However it also provided a vehicle for statists and social engineers to expand the power of the Fed and make all of us, regardless of color a lot less free. This same vehicle-racial injustice, inequality- is still being used to silence dissent and expand the power of the federal gov. The effect of which will be to end freedom in America. We'll all, regardless of race, religion, or color, be slaves of the state.

By the way, if the north was so pure when it came to race relations why is it that most of the major riots during the 1960 to 1970 time frame occurred there? Detroit, Watts, Yonkers, Boston, Watts riot in LA.

For the record, the largest single race riot ( in terms of deaths) occured the next day after Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation. It happened Yonkers NY. Hundreds of African American men were killed because whites feared that when African Americans were allowed to join the Army and possess a rifle, the would kill all the whites and take over NY.

I got this the above from PBS American Experience.

ChuckD| 11.25.09 @ 2:02PM

More liberal black and white thinking. Are you capable of nuanced thought. No you're not because you have only read history written by like minded liberals like yourself.

A majority of the Southern Democrats who opposed the 1964 civil rights law where neither racists nor segregationists.

I got this the above from PBS American Experience.

Liberal Reader| 11.23.09 @ 9:38PM

Grzmlyk --

You ask me to name an issue I've changed my mind on as a result of reading conservative views.

Actually, I have -- literally -- dozens of examples.

Most recently, I was listening to NPR -- that horrible, socialist news agency -- and was convinced by a conservative guest that trying KSM in New York City is a bad idea.

Now, he didn't imply that if I disagreed with him it meant I was an evil traitor, like you people do.

And he didn't blubber, or bray, or howl, or pound his fist on the table.

He made a calm, clear-headed, well-reasoned argument that was stronger than his opponents.

AND, he didn't sing the lame, tired old song and dance about how Democrats love terrorists and want to give them therapy.

He respected his opponent (a Navy admiral) but he won the issue. I now agree with him and not most Democrats.

I've been convinced -- again, by thoughtful, literate conservatives who take the trouble to make strong arguments (trust me, it's not as easy as it seems) -- on school vouchers and many other educational issues, on some welfare programs, on tax cuts for small business, on some law and order type issues, on some aspects of gun control, on some forms of affirmative action, on many issues involving federalism, on drug laws (I used to be more pro-legalization), and on some aspects of the immigration issue, where I've been ARGUED into more conservative positions by people who just had better arguments than I had. I won't bore you with more examples, but I could.

And by the way: I was NEVER convinced of anything by Fox, Rush, Beck, or any talk radio slob. I'm talking about conservative writers and thinkers. You know -- the enlightened-elitist, library-card carrying conservatives you used to see free range, but not so much anymore.

victor| 11.24.09 @ 12:50AM

Who was that masked conservative Paleface?

Margie| 11.24.09 @ 12:55AM

"You know -- the enlightened-elitist, library-card carrying conservatives you used to see free range, but not so much anymore."
~You mean sorta like free-range chickens. I don't see them that often, but I do see their eggs on the shelves of the super market. And they are quite a bit tastier than those poor pent up peeps that have to stay caged.

Grzmlyk| 11.24.09 @ 8:22AM

Bullshit. Gee, LR, you've gone from babe in the woods to inveterate liar very quickly.

The classic liberal tragectory.

Name the conservative guest.

NPR doesn't HAVE conservative guests. Of course you probably think Michael Gerson, Peggy Noonan, David Frum and David Brooks are conservatives.

Grzmlyk| 11.24.09 @ 8:23AM

Yes, I meant trajectory (I studied Latin just enough to know that).

Liberal Reader| 11.24.09 @ 11:14AM

You haven't listened to NPR, obviously. They have plenty of conservative guests. Overall, I'd agree they have a liberal sway; but they do have conservative guests.

The problem is that you think conservatism is all about childish howling and lynch-mobs and anger and fear. It's not. It's an actual philosophic worldview that some thoughtful people hold.

You ought to stop watching so much television and look into conservatism.

ChuckD| 11.25.09 @ 2:13PM

OK, so you're a thoughtful open minded person, good for you. The problem is that the event you cite-an open debate between people on either side of an important controversial subject-rarely ever occurs in the liberal media.

That's why Beck, Limbaugh, Levin, will continue to draw large audiences. The liberal media can't stand having any other side but their side expressed. And people who disagree with them, like myself end up shouting at the TV. Or turning them off and listening to talk radio.

Whenever they do manage to show the conservative side, it's always via some less than stellar communicator and only for a few seconds.

You complain about the hateful rhetoric of Beck, Limbaugh, etc, but you overlook Ulbermench, Mathews, etc.

Bydand76| 11.23.09 @ 9:59PM

Well then Liberal Reader,
If a well thought out and persuasive argument is your forte then can I ask you why do you respond with such bile from time to time when you choose to respond to certain posts on AmSpec?

I have seen some well thought out and intelligent responses to your posts and you have just come back with a question and then profanity?

What gives?

victor| 11.24.09 @ 12:53AM

Dear Bydand76,
Remember the fable of the sorpion and the frog?
http://allaboutfrogs.org/stories/scorpion.html

Monkeychest| 11.24.09 @ 1:53AM

Lib, are we to understand that you can justify a false racism charge by pointing out that real instances of racism actually exist? We know about real racism and we abhorr it, but when this nonsense happens it has the affect of invalidating the real cases. The false accusations are gross examples of the very racism that you so rightly seem to despise. It is ludicrous. It is intellectual bankruptcy to condemn the purveyor of a certain point of view if he has the skin color that fits your theory and then give another a pass if he does not. Is it the seriousness of the accusation that should drive the debate or the facts of the case?

Monkeychest| 11.24.09 @ 2:20AM

Interesting that the NYT just reported today what Glenn Becks, book which has been on the NYT bestseller list for 23 weeks, says: the service on the debt that we are accumulating will reach in excess of $700 trillion by 2019. Who's out of touch? The NYT seems surprised and also seems to think that they have done some sort of investigative journalism. They do need to be bailed out. Bailed out like foul bilge water from the once great but sinking American ship that we have become.

Monkeychest| 11.24.09 @ 2:53AM

LibReader, I just read more of you. Research David Horowitz and Bernard Goldberg. You might find more quickly than listening to thoughtful debate that your beliefs are predicated on a foundation of nothing. Free yourself from the oppression of guilt and baseless ideology. Try asking yourself simply: Why? on almost everything you believe. And then when you discover that the why leads to impossibility of the how, you can begin to heal your wounded ego.

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DM| 11.24.09 @ 1:27PM

What does your comment have to do with this discussion??

Brian Mitchell, R.Ph.| 11.24.09 @ 4:04PM

Thanks for the of-course-on-the-money account.
I live in Kennett, my date to my Jr.(her Sr.) Prom was in deed Ms.Sheryl Crow. I'd like to invite y'all to peruse my column in the local paper @ dddnews.com. It's called "Ice Storm of the Vanities"

Richard Baker| 11.25.09 @ 12:47PM

What? Another boorish black female cries Race? Maybe she needs to contact Sharpton and Tawana Brawley to learn the proper technique for whining. I hear that both are available for consultation.

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