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The Spectacle Blog
Did the fact that Canada has a socialist, government-run healthcare system —similar to the kind that President Obama wants to ram down the throats of Americans— kill acclaimed actress Natasha Richardson?
The short answer is yes, it may very well have done so.
Regarding the case of the actress who fell on a ski slope at Mont Tremblant resort in Quebec, AP reports:
As a steady stream of celebrities pay their last respects to Natasha Richardson, questions are arising over whether a medical helicopter might have been able to save the ailing actress.
The province of Quebec lacks a medical helicopter system, common in the United States and other parts of Canada, to airlift stricken patients to major trauma centers. Montreal’s top head trauma doctor said Friday that may have played a role in Richardson’s death.
“It’s impossible for me to comment specifically about her case, but what I could say is … driving to Mont Tremblant from the city (Montreal) is a 2 1/2-hour trip, and the closest trauma center is in the city. Our system isn’t set up for traumas and doesn’t match what’s available in other Canadian cities, let alone in the States,” said Tarek Razek, director of trauma services for the McGill University Health Centre, which represents six of Montreal’s hospitals.
That’s it in a nutshell. Socialized medicine, known by the euphemism universal healthcare, is about tightfisted government clerks rationing care.
Think about the folks at the Department of Motor Vehicles making your healthcare decisions for you while you wait in line.
Under government healthcare, faceless bureaucrats do not care if you live or die, as long as everyone receives equal treatment.
Natasha Richardson received the same kind of treatment anyone in Quebec would have received, and now she’s dead at the age of 45 because Quebec didn’t have something as basic as a medical helicopter system.
View all comments (249) | Leave a comment
More Blog Posts by Matthew Vadum
http://spectator.org/blog/2009/03/21/did-canadas-universal-health-c
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Pingback| 3.21.09 @ 9:20AM
Did Canada’s Universal Health Care Kill Natasha Richardson? — But As For Me links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
jharp| 3.21.09 @ 9:31AM
Posted by Matthew Vadum on 3.21.09 @ 8:44AM
You're an ass.
The head injury caused her death you moron. People die in the United States everyday because of the same injury.
I loathe the lies you spread.
Paula Nichols| 2.9.10 @ 4:42PM
I agree with you. She refused treatment from the beginning of her traumatic head injury. She was responsible for her death.
Iron Sights| 3.14.10 @ 8:42PM
Well jsharp, you speak with great authority on head injury and healthcare delivery systems, so let me add my two cents. As an anesthetist for the past 25 years, I have worked in several large trauma centers here in the U.S. and have dealt with many acute head injuries. And while elapsed time from injury to treatment isn't everything, that so called golden hour, the first 60 minutes from injury to appropriate treatment, certainly does play a major, major roll in the patient's prognosis. In otherwords, the rapid transport of this woman to something other than a band-aid station may not have saved her, or it perhaps might have, but for the cost of a chopper ride to a major neurosurgical center, we will never know. And while Canada saved a few bucks on the whole deal, she is still dead, her husband is without his wife, and her children are without their mother. But hey, its all about saving a few bucks so we can all enjoy the same substandard level of care, right? As knowlegeable as you seem to be, I'm sure you already know that Canadians who can afford to buy private insurance, or pay cash, come to the United States for treatment. Of course you do, and there is a reason for that jsharp. If you think about it for a few minutes, I know you will figure it out.
I have worked at the head of the O.R. table with many foreign surgeons over the years, and try as I might, I cannot think of one who did not tell me that the United States has the very best health care delivery system in the world, that it is the envy of much of the world, and that includes the systems in the U.K., Canada, and Europe. To replace that system with something resembling Canada's would be a tragedy for all American citizens. We would all be reduced to the lowest common denominator and I would bet even money that folks like you will whine the loudest when you discover for yourself, the debacle that will pass for medical care if this monstrosity of a bill passes.
So, in the future, perhaps you should stick to something you know about, like name calling.
Semper Fi
Bill Bailey| 3.21.09 @ 9:39AM
jharp: You're quite a socialist retard aren't you?
People die on waiting lists in Canada every day waiting for expensive cancer and coronary treatments: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123413701032661445.html.
Do you want this for America?
Moya| 3.3.10 @ 11:07PM
As an American in Canada, I've found it much easier to schedule a Doctors appointment with less of a waiting time, than I have had in the past scheduling appointments in the U.S.
Ironray| 3.21.09 @ 9:51AM
Yes, and people die every day in the U.S. waiting as well.
The author conveniently leaves out the part about how she felt fine for almost an hour and then collapsed. She refused treatment. Nothing short of an MRI immediately after the accident would have saved her or shown the problem.
Jumping on the bandwagon shows a complete ignorance of the issue.
hinckleybuzzard| 3.21.09 @ 9:52AM
"The head injury caused her death you moron." She most likely died from lack of expert medical care. These intracranial bleeds, if caught in time are often easily repaired. Children like jharp need to grow up and face the cold light of reality.
Ms Fran B| 3.21.09 @ 10:05AM
IRONRAY! SAY what?
The people in the USA don't die WAITING for an MRI cat scan or for dialysis! THEY DO IN CANADA NOW that is a fact.
In Canada THEY DO WAIT UP TO 6MON FOR CAT SCANS. LONGER FOR dialysis.
PEOPLE in the US do die of head trauma though, but NOT waiting. This is why its important to fly them to the nearest hospital. ITs all in how fast they are treated. IN Canada many come to the USA for treatment. geesh. Her chances would have been better if taken by helicopter.
Shawn Gordon| 11.18.09 @ 2:12AM
I'm a Canadian who's stumbled upon this site.
I think you have the wrong impression of the impractically long waiting lists in my country.
Life threatening emergencies are fast-tracked. My Grandmother recently came down with a Sarcoidotic respiratory condition, and originally was scheduled for an MRI 3 weeks after she saw her doctor. Her conditioned worsened and she was fast-tracked to have it immediately.
Eastern Ontario used to have very long wait times for MRI and CT scans about 5 years ago, but the Provincial government bought a number of new diagnostic machines, and now waits for non-life threatening scans are roughly 1-1.5 months.
The lack of a medical helicopter system likely didn't "kill" Natasha Richardson like it is claimed in this article, instead, as it has been pointed out, her refusal of care likely did. Head injuries are serious business, and she did have the time to reach a hospital had she listened to the urgings of those who were at the scene.
I always assumed Montreal had a medical helicopter system. It wouldn't make sense that Ottawa (my hometown), a city smaller than Montreal would have such a system and Montreal wouldn't. Although, like I have mentioned earlier, I think it's dubious to claim that anything other than Natasha Richardson's refusal of care could be directly blamed for her death.
It is interesting though that this blog is making that claim. I would sincerely doubt that any Canadian (besides those lucky few making over $100,000 or so a year perhaps) would prefer an American style system to the current Canadian system. In fact, if I recall correctly something like 80% (an uncited figure, I know, but I do encourage you to find the actual number) of Canadians were satisfied with the current system. This is opposed to the United States, where something around 2/3 favour changing the current system.
Even if the poster were correct in their assertion, which as I've made clear I suspect they are incorrect, and Canadian Universal Health care (or if you prefer the far more loaded term socialised medicine, although terms that draw their root from socialism do not carry a negative connotation in Canada as is evidenced by our large socialist party, the NDP) were responsible for this woman's tragic death, I would still suspect the majority would support our style of system, as nobody is left uninsured. Even if you do believe the American system is superior, there's no arguing that being a poor American using your system is far worse than being a poor Canadian using our system.
As a side note, I've actually skiied at Mont. Tremblant where this happened, it's a nice mountain, but Vorlage is my favourite.
paula Nichols| 2.9.10 @ 4:44PM
There is no way a peron can wait for dialysis. People who need dialysis will die within days of not getting treatment. The toxins will kill the persons heart. Get it right if you are goingto comment on it.
jharp| 3.21.09 @ 10:07AM
Ironray| 3.21.09 @ 9:51AM
"Jumping on the bandwagon shows a complete ignorance of the issue."
And by the way, hinckleybuzzard, I used to go see the Hinckley buzzards when I was kid. But you are still an idiot.
This blog is a festival of ignorance. And lies.
Kitty| 3.21.09 @ 10:09AM
FTA: "as long as everyone receives equal treatment."
Somehow I doubt that congressmen and senators and the Hollywood elite will be forced to wait in line with the hoi polloi to see a doctor. What health care system will they use?
...
Bill Bailey| 3.21.09 @ 10:09AM
And yet, jharp, you keep coming back. Troll.
jharp| 3.21.09 @ 10:12AM
Saddens me how the wingnuts here believe there are only two health care systems in the world. The U.S. and Canada.
A fine display of the narrow minded knuckledragging troglodyte brain of a GOPer.
For God's sake you imbeciles. Take a look around. There are other wonderful heath care systems that deliver the same care of we do for half the cost.
Turn off the two dropouts, Hannity and the drug addict Limbo, and read and learn. And maybe, just maybe, climb out of the hills and go visit one of those other countries.
Mark Jessup| 3.21.09 @ 10:15AM
jharp, send your invoice for "services rendered" to the Obama-Biden Transition Team, Online Blog-Troll Division, Washington D.C. 20666. As for your "going to see the Hinckley buzzards when you were a kid", when was that, last week? Go eat a bowl of Obama-O's, "All Hope, All Change, No Nutrition". Natasha Richardson, even when brain dead had more common sense than you do.
jharp| 3.21.09 @ 10:15AM
Bill Bailey| 3.21.09 @ 10:09AM
"And yet, jharp, you keep coming back. Troll."
Figure I owe it to my country and my kids to enlighten you nitwits. Look what happened the past 8 years when you morons controlled the White House and the Congress. No more will I let your lies and stupidity go unchallenged.
And I enjoy myself here.
Mark Jessup| 3.21.09 @ 10:18AM
jharp: "Figure I owe it to my country and my kids"
Well, no sense in worrying about the gene pool anymore.
My gawd jharp, to think you've actually passed on some of your DNA to innocent children is a truly disgusting thought.
Basil Plumley| 3.21.09 @ 10:19AM
@ jharp
So says the nitwit who tried to make the argument that McVeigh was a Ron Paul supporter.
Do you wake up mad or is this normal behavior for you? You obviously didn't get much attention from your Mommy while you were growing up. As a result, we have to endure your longing to be loved.
You need help.
jharp| 3.21.09 @ 10:21AM
My Mommy loved me Basil Plumley, she loved me enough to put me in touch with my feminine side by letting me wear her lingerie. Don't bring my sexuality into this, I'm proud of what I am and even this blog will not tolerate homophobia so leave me ALONE!
jharp| 3.21.09 @ 10:23AM
Mark Jessup, you are a fascist jack booted thug and probably don't even like poetry or jasmine tea.
Maureen| 3.21.09 @ 10:24AM
As a visiting citizen from the UK, I'm continually amazed by the skewed representations local politicians make of our health care system. I should say I have to agree with the first poster. Why would you want to deny your own citizens far superior care at half the cost? You Americans are a strange lot.
Bill Bailey| 3.21.09 @ 10:24AM
You are a sicko, jharp.
jharp| 3.21.09 @ 10:25AM
NEW YORK (CNN) -- A 49-year-old woman collapsed and died on the floor of a waiting room at a Brooklyn psychiatric hospital and lay there for more than an hour as employees ignored her, according to the New York Civil Liberties Union, which on Tuesday released surveillance camera video of the incident.
Surveillance video shows a woman lying on the hospital floor for almost an hour before anyone helped her.
Esmin Green was involuntarily admitted to the psychiatric emergency department of Kings County Hospital Center on June 18 for what the hospital describes as "agitation and psychosis."
Upon her admission, Green waited nearly 24 hours for treatment.
Bill Bailey| 3.21.09 @ 10:26AM
You are a retard and a troll, Maureen. I doubt you are even from the UK. Nice try, Kossack.
Mark Jessup| 3.21.09 @ 10:26AM
Maureen, would you call it a 'skewed representation' about your vaunted national health care in the UK when a man suffering from a tattoo gone awry is given pain killers and *antihistamines*, sent home and found dead from a blood clot which traveled to his lungs? The UK system is just another way of 'culling the herd' and you people still have bad teeth.
Mark Jessup| 3.21.09 @ 10:28AM
jharp, my sympathies are with you, I had no idea that your Mommy was that unfortunate 49 year old woman.
Died of shame at having you as offspring no doubt.
jharp| 3.21.09 @ 10:28AM
"Why would you want to deny your own citizens far superior care at half the cost?"
The short answer to your question is because Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Fox News say we should.
America is in a very sad state.
Mark Jessup| 3.21.09 @ 10:31AM
jharp: "America is in a very sad state" - actually troll, you're right - the Obamunists have seized control of all three branches of government, we're witnessing socialism being rammed down the throat of the public against their will, the Constitution is being trampled on, so the fact is you and your fellow leftists ought to be having mass orgasms 24/7.
But then again, you are probably still grieving for your Mommy.
Zanderkelly| 3.21.09 @ 10:31AM
Actually when the GOP was in charge of the white house gas prices were low, people had jobs...things went down hill in 2006 with the reign of Pelosi. Not sure why you think you are enlightening anyone with your ignorance. Sorry, but I have family in Canada and their system sucks. It's expensive and they wait FOREVER to get into the clinic. It's the "enlightened" fools like yourself that will really have your eyes opened when you have to wait for your healthcare. Imagine 300+ million Americans waiting in line for healthcare. Sorry, but lazy, selfish Americans aren't going to be happy when they realize healthcare as they knew it is gone. Our system still beats most if you remain objective and quit listening to people like Michael Moore. I love how republicans are always hill people and nitwits and dems are enlightened! Are you not watching what your president is doing? Open mouth insert foot.
Jan | 3.21.09 @ 10:31AM
Jharp:
When you can't win on the arguments, you resort
to name calling, which adds nothing to the discussion. Were you picked on at the playground? I detect a seething rage, which is not the way to begin a discussion on public policy which affects millions of lives. If you like universal care so much, why don't you move to Cuba. Oh, I know why. They don't have an internet which you can use to trash people with whom you disagree.
jharp| 3.21.09 @ 10:32AM
"I had no idea that your Mommy was that unfortunate 49 year old woman. "
And so what if she was my Mommy? What does that have to with anything? You are an imbecile.
richard| 3.21.09 @ 10:32AM
As the airhead she was, she did not wear a helmet.
However, we applaud her that even as a commie pinko airhead dope smoking leftist free thinker she was open minded to free choice!
Mark Jessup| 3.21.09 @ 10:36AM
jharp, you're a conservative troll, I know it. You've been sent here to entertain us all with your flawed impression of a leftist agitator.
Nice try Jesse.
jharp| 3.21.09 @ 10:36AM
"I love how republicans are always hill people and nitwits and dems are enlightened!"
And the red states (republicans) are also the biggest welfare recipients. Sucking the teat of the blue staters. If it wasn't for us blue staters you'd be even poorer and more ignorant.
Basil Plumley| 3.21.09 @ 10:37AM
@ jharp
Lighten up, Francis! ...... or is it Francine.
jharp| 3.21.09 @ 10:38AM
And before the naysayers start sneering, I am a proud resident of San Francisco, and Nancy Pelosi is da BOMB!
jharp| 3.21.09 @ 10:41AM
Mark Jessup| 3.21.09 @ 10:36AM
"jharp, you're a conservative troll, I know it."
And in typical wingnut fashion you are completely wrong.
You, Mark Jessup, are an ignorant right wing hack who isn't bright enough to see the fleecing the health care companies are giving us. We pay twice, twice, what the rest of the world pays. For the same level of care.
But Limbaugh and Hannity say we're getting a great deal and who would even think of questioning those two dropouts?
Mark Jessup| 3.21.09 @ 10:46AM
jharp, I'm going to take it easy on you, because anyone who was forced to wear their Mommy's lingerie is to be pitied (per your previous post).
zanderkelly| 3.21.09 @ 10:48AM
I am from a blue state. People come here for our welfare. Our slums are blue areas, and the red parts are the nice parts. You should see the line from Gary, Indiana coming here for their welfarechecks! Maybe republicans seem poorer because they give more money to charity, but count that out because your superhero wants to put an end to that, too. Every made fun of Bush for years, but in restrospect he wasn't that bad. I love when the dems compare him to a monkey. Hmmm... what other president is a monkey look-a-like? Can't quite put my finger on it.
Rosalie| 3.21.09 @ 10:52AM
We DO NOT need Universal Health Care. Most hospitals that receive any federal or state funding have indigent care for those who can't pay. There hospitals that provide free clinics also. They can NOT be turned away. I have a friend that lost his job. (no money or income) He received a neck fusion and post op care...FREE! I asked him if he felt slighted at all during his pre and post-op period and he said "NO". We have the best health care in the world!. Why let government mess it up.. like they have done with everything else they touch! Look at Medicare...... scary right?
bill robinson| 3.21.09 @ 10:54AM
Just looked up the WHO stats....Canada ranks 30th for quality of health care in the world...the United States ranked 37th. End of argument. Both are lousy spots. The difference is i guess, Canadians dont have to incurr financial death when sick. Good health to you all
jharp| 3.21.09 @ 10:58AM
bill,
Good post. The idiots here believe there are only two health care systems in the world. The U.S. and Canada.
Both suck. And ours costs twice as much.
Ms Fran| 3.21.09 @ 10:59AM
AHHH Maureen
guess you are not informed about socialized medicine facts>> you are confused its the USA that has superior care....not the UK or Canada they come here...
your comment>Why would you want to deny your own citizens far superior care at half the cost? You Americans are a strange lot. >>
Bill Bailey| 3.21.09 @ 11:00AM
bill robinson, you believe the WHO which is an arm of the United Nations? Bureaucratic bullshit, troll.
jharp| 3.21.09 @ 11:02AM
Of the 1.4 million who sustain a Traumatic Brain Injury each year in the United States:
* 50,000 die;
* 235,000 are hospitalized; and
* 1.1 million are treated and released from an emergency department.
But according to wingnut logic if one person dies in Canada it's because they have a single payer health care system.
Good God, the stupid!
jharp| 3.21.09 @ 11:07AM
"WHO stats....Canada ranks 30th for quality of health care in the world...the United States ranked 37th."
And we pay twice what the Canadians do to rank 7 spots lower.
And the brain dead wingnut conservatives cheer our system. I guess that explains how they supported Bush. Effectiveness and competence mean nothing. It's all about what Rush and Hannity say.
KansasGirl| 3.21.09 @ 11:09AM
To all you trolls about the high cost of medical treatment in the U.S. it only became "expensive" when the grand LIBS started Medicare and Medicaid. The insured are paying for these programs. I wouldn't step foot in a hospital run by socialized medicine.
jharp| 3.21.09 @ 11:15AM
KansasGirl| 3.21.09 @ 11:09AM
"To all you trolls about the high cost of medical treatment in the U.S. it only became "expensive" when the grand LIBS started Medicare and Medicaid."
Another wingnut moron chimes in with even more of the stupid.
KansasGirl, Canada's system is just like Medicare and Medicaid except they cover everyone.
And for half the cost.
Are you really that stupid?
FBM| 3.21.09 @ 11:16AM
JHARP... here are only some>>facts from the wingnuts...wake up....i hear it from Canadians and UK citizens friends and family...
http://www.neoperspectives.com/canadahealthcare.htm
Jack Bauer | 3.21.09 @ 11:18AM
A few home truths about the Redgraves and socialist healthcare systems.
Natasha Richardson should not have died. Her autopsy clearly showed that cause of death could and should have been prevented had she received proper treatment immediately.
Now let's just consider major portions the Redgrave family (Uncle Corin and Mom Vanessa) two Jew hating quasi-commies, who just LOVE the sort of healthcare system that just killed their niece/daughter.
They love it because it doesn't normally apply to them. They make sure they receive their healthcare in the US, not in the ramshackle crumbling British NHS which has had over 50 years to perfect its smashing standard of "go f+ck yourself and die, Ms. Patient."
Seems a tad harsh that people have to die to show up the inept, corrupt idea of government run medicine to people who fanatically push this system FOR OTHER PEOPLE. But there you have it, I'm sorry to say.
For instance, that other first rate hypocrite Tedward Kennedy would be long dead had he been in the UK. You see, 77 year old man don't even make it to the list to GET ON THE LIST for an MRI.
Age being a rationing factor in jolly olde England.
Here's what happens in a socialist healthcare system such as that in the UK (also known as universal healthcare) funded by what we laughingly call "taxation."
When you pay for your own healthcare (or your employer pays in deferred income) you EXPECT and DEMAND a level of service.
You may grumble at the cost, but you see that cost. It’s your cost. And you get what you pay for. Britain system is shite partly because they spend HALF of what Americans spend. What? You think Britons get the same service as Americans but at half the cost? You really cannot have duplicity without dupes. Just ask Obama. He’s a duplicitous, lying SOB.
So how and why does this come about. Think about it. The word is TAX.
You remember how the Marxist-in-Chief got elected? Yeah, lying about just about everything he planned. But he was cunning (if somewhat dim) and he knew what he was lying about when he lied about reducing taxes for 95% of Americans.
Get it SOCIALISTS and the rest of you national socialist rabble? People don't LIKE paying tax. It's an ISSUE at every election.
So how would that work out in a system in which your TAXES would fund healthcare. Gosh, golly, and heavenstumrgatroyd -- suummit don't add up.
Politicians who run for office would have to stand there and defend raising taxes to PAY for the never-satiated beast of government healthcare.
So there would be an irresistible and never-ending drive to PUSH DOWN COSTS by rationing healthcare. By age, by lifestyle, by anything they can get away with.
Welcome to Obamacare. You're gonna love it. So long as you’re not a 76 year old man with a Grade 4 brain tumor, and your name isn't Kennedy.
Mark Jessup| 3.21.09 @ 11:18AM
jharp: "Of the 1.4 million who sustain a Traumatic Brain Injury each year in the United States:
* 50,000 die"
Lucky for you, you beat the odds. Too bad about your IQ being reduced to double digit score.
Look on the bright side jharp, "88" is easy to remember for somebody like you.
bill robinson| 3.21.09 @ 11:25AM
Outside of all stats, and interpretation of, I like the Canadian health care system over the American one. I do not want to live in a country where there is a profit to be made over one's health/life. I don't want to see my fellow citizens dieing in poverty, literaly. On a personal note...last month I had some chest pains, recieved a CAT scan, medication, and was monitored for twenty four hours. ( wait time for medical attention was approx. 15 minuites) Total cost 0.00 dollars (0.18 us ). I know with my financial state the way it is, i would of proably not of sought attention it i knew i would end up paying for it.
Basil Plumley| 3.21.09 @ 11:29AM
@ jharp
You are a colossal jewel of ignorance. Your rants/screeds prove that. You are the very definition of the 3 biggest lies in the world: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Once again, your reading comprehension is non-existent.
"Half the cost"?
Did you not read the article and the lack of medical air transport for Richardson?
Yep, the bottom line looks much better than the lives saved. Your argument is pathetic. I would expect better from someone with a 16 year-old daughter.
As Mark Levin would say to you ......"SHUT UP, you BIG DOPE!!!
KansasGirl| 3.21.09 @ 11:33AM
jharp, so now I'm a moron and stupid because I don't agree with you? You missed by point entirely. Medicare and Medicaid drive up all medical costs. Also, I'm doing everything I can to NEVER have to rely on either of these government programs. But people like you are trying to take that choice away from me.
Jack Bauer | 3.21.09 @ 11:34AM
bill robinson
Oh sure.
I can't belive we have found someone who actually believes the UN.
That so-called WHO "ranking" (sic) is utterly bogus and devoid of all merit. END OF ARGUMENT.
ruth| 3.21.09 @ 11:36AM
Natasha Richardson died for nothing. We look forward to the same fate if we allow Obumbler to nationalize our healthcare system. What a waste. RIP Ms. Richardson.
tom paine| 3.21.09 @ 11:43AM
sure it was the cult of celebrity and the worship of money that killed her. she was an actor. if she was paid what she was worth she wouldn't have been at an upper class ski resort with her two children, she would have been at her waitressing job. get a grip, north americans, death is not optional. we all die for nothing.
bill robinson| 3.21.09 @ 11:45AM
Jack Bauer
Once again, why should we put a price on life. We talk about all the civil liberties Americans enjoy, yet they are denied the right to live, they have to pay for it. Medications cost an arm and a leg in the United States if you happen to be treating an arm and a leg. In Canada we share the expense of our fellow citizens health care, as a mutualy identified right to life.
As far as the UN goes, I will believe them over the last eight years of " honesty ' served by your former president.
Off to the Dr. , wish you all the best in health and happiness, may Canadian spiritiality bless you all with its divinity.
KansasGirl| 3.21.09 @ 11:54AM
Hey bill robinson, does your mutually identified right to life include abortion?
Mark Jessup| 3.21.09 @ 11:57AM
Well Bill Robinson, while you're prattling on about your Canadian health 'care' perhaps you could explain why thousands of Canadians flock to the U.S. every year for superior health care? Don't bother, I can tell you: your fellow citizens come to the U.S. for medical treatment when they are faced with waiting in endless ques for 'treatment' in your system and possibly dying before treatment, or coming to the U.S. and getting the health care they need. And before you talk about that 'superior' health care of yours, go ask those many women in New Brunswick who were given false reports by pathologists regarding their suspected breast cancer? Oh wait, you can't ask them, many of them are DEAD.
Jack Bauer | 3.21.09 @ 11:59AM
DANGER DANGER bill robinson.
Are you for real?
What are you talking about "don't put a price on life" What sort of gibberish is this?
CANADA puts a price on life. If it didn't it would spend EVERY LAST PENNY of its GDP on healthcare.
Doers Canada spend every last penny on healthcare? No. Therefore its puts a price on life. A lower price than Americans, as it happens.
You are really talking through your rose-tinted arse. Not a pretty sight, even with the rose-tints.
Oh -- and I'm not an American.
Pingback| 3.21.09 @ 12:06PM
The American Spectator : AmSpecBlog : Did Canada's Universal … links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
bill robinson| 3.21.09 @ 12:06PM
We could spend the rest of the day writing examples of trajedy on both sides of the border in regards to our health care systems. The true arguement is the philosophy behind our systems.
As far as your examples go...many americans come to canada with fake Canadian health cards to recieve free treatment, many medical screwups in the United States have seen lawsuits rise the cost of care.
Again we can note examples all day, my only points are, I am willing to pay extra taxes to keep my fellow citizen healthy, and our health care system is ranked higher and more cost effective then yours.
We have to drop the emotion when arguing points of difference, it clouds and distorts.
KansasGirl| 3.21.09 @ 12:11PM
bill robinson, you say American's go to Canada for "free" treatment? Why would you thinks it's free? I would also bet these are the same people who want free housing, free food, free clothing, free childcare, etc. This is exactly what is destroying countries around this globe. Nothing, I repeat, nothing in life is FREE.
john galt| 3.21.09 @ 12:14PM
Here's a socialist solution for jharp. Because skiing is so potentially dangerous, let's ban skiing in areas out of emergency medical range. Anyways, I'll bet our statist fan jharp believes that no one will miss skiing because ski resorts will no longer exist because of global warming.
Angel| 3.21.09 @ 12:18PM
Tom Paine--stupid comment. She was only 45 and she had two young kids. She should still be alive. She died because of the socialist a$$holes in Canada , and I don't want to die needlessly because of the socialist a$$holes here. Loser.
Jack Bauer | 3.21.09 @ 12:24PM
john galt -- and isn't skiiing for the "bourgeoise" anyway? Proles don't ski!
(Not that I actually believe in clueless Marxian class crap!)
KansasGirl| 3.21.09 @ 12:28PM
Hey Angel, I'm pretty sure john galt's comment was satire.
jharp| 3.21.09 @ 12:30PM
The one thing I WILL say about Canada's health care is that they totally botched my vasectomy. I mean, it was just awful. Other than that, yay Canada!
KansasGirl| 3.21.09 @ 12:37PM
Hey harpy, you back from the doctor? Oh, goody.
hank rearden| 3.21.09 @ 12:37PM
bill robinson, you should recognize that many of these UN sponsored health care studies are flawed because they have used inappropriate outcomes. Let's take longetivity for example. Longetivity is primarily based on factors such as genetics, diet, exercise, educational levels, marital status (for men), avoidance of high risk activity (smoking, skiing?), standard of living. Medical care primarily affects disease outcomes and the US excels in survival rates for most cancers and other chronic diseases.
bill robinson, do you want better health for you and your fellow Canadians? Don't go to the doctor. Your mom will tell you. Don't smoke, eat your vegetables, get married, exercise, go to school and get a good job. Now you don't need to waste time at the doctor's office to be told that; do you? And in Canada, maybe you should stop skiing!
Bob Cirba| 3.21.09 @ 12:37PM
Bill Robinson, what kind of a weasly fool are you? Natasha Richardson would have almost certainly lived in the U.S. Yet, she is dead, and her family is in anguish, b/c Canada cares more about everyone's "right to live". Are you a human being or a government-programmed robot? IDIOT!!
Pingback| 3.21.09 @ 12:40PM
Testing Blog links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Angel| 3.21.09 @ 12:41PM
Okay, KansasGirl; you just never know with all of the libtard trolls on this site. I'm always ready for a fight. LOL
Starry| 3.21.09 @ 12:43PM
JHarp, I wish your dad had been neutered--before you were conceived.
KansasGirl| 3.21.09 @ 12:43PM
Angel, I totally agree. LOL
Angel| 3.21.09 @ 12:52PM
I was responding to Tom Paine @ 11:43. Still not sure about it.
KansasGirl| 3.21.09 @ 12:57PM
Sorry Angel, I'm not sure what he meant either. I especially like his view that he all die for nothing. Ah, no Tommy, we all just die.
dagny taggart| 3.21.09 @ 1:03PM
Flash: Breaking news from the Quebec Bureau de Sante.
Our bureau has determined skiing to be hazardous to your health. In order to maintain our outstanding health care ranking, a committee has been established to determine if skiing should be banned or restricted in our belle province. You know, we're always thinking of you and acting in your best interest.
Sincerely,
Your friendly Minister de Sante
Pingback| 3.21.09 @ 1:09PM
Health Blog » Blog Archive » The American Spectator : AmSpecBlog : Did Canada's Unive links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Kal| 3.21.09 @ 1:16PM
I see that Obama's Keyboard Brigades are trolling the blogs overtime this morning. They were all over Pajamas Media and now American Spectator. The must really be worried that Obama's message isn't getting heard the way they want. Onward Commie Trolljers!
KansasGirl| 3.21.09 @ 1:30PM
Kal, how right you are. They have alot more time on their hands to troll. But it's a beautiful Saturday in Kansas and I'm going horseback riding. Hope ya'll have a great weekend.
jharp| 3.21.09 @ 1:52PM
Kal, I resent that characterization. I am no longer a communist.
Bob Cirba| 3.21.09 @ 2:36PM
I suppose that Natasha's life would be "an acceptable loss for the greater good", according to the Marxist "universal care" people.
Joe| 10.22.09 @ 8:22PM
In fact yes. I would assume it to be in the situation of health we should take a utilatarian view. Do you believe money should be the factor in deciding lives, merely treating life as a commodity? He who is rich lives, he who is poor dies? Treat that sixty year old man with a five percent success rate or save the lives of five innocent children? These are only a few questions you should ask yourself.
Jack Bauer | 3.21.09 @ 2:41PM
Coming to a socialist state near you soon.
This afternoon in the United Kingdom...
The highest court in the land, REJECTED an appeal by the NAURAL parents of a baby. They wanted to stop DOCTORS in Britain's oh so wonderful National Health Service turning off their child's life support.
That's right folks. Under socilaized medicine you have NO RIGHTS to insist your child lives. The state decides.
Terri Schiavo haters are, of course, delighted. All in the name of humanity, doncha know. And saving money of course. Keeping a brain dameged baby alive costs a lot of money that could, be spent elsewhere. It's a utilitarian outcome.
Starry| 3.21.09 @ 3:29PM
It's all about power, all of the time. Marxists are nuts--and evil. I detest them.
Bob Cirba| 3.21.09 @ 4:02PM
JACK BAUER, thank you for many poignant remarks, esp. about the Redgrave family. From the accounts I've read, Natasha was not a kook, which is a real credit to her in that family.
paul stobbe| 3.21.09 @ 4:59PM
Please ,both sides stop yelling at each other. This discussion can't be advanced without farther knowledge. Please checkout the 2 youtube videos by Martha Livingston,healthcare in canada. No system is perfect,and canada's healthcare system has some faults. Considering that canada spends less then half per cap. what the U.S. system does, I think we'll keep it . thanks
Angel| 3.21.09 @ 5:34PM
No prob, Paul: Just watch yourself on those ski slopes. Better not fall and hit your head.
Jeremiah| 3.21.09 @ 5:35PM
Here at last: Vadum's article above wins the prize. The stupidest, the most unbelievably ignorant and foolish thing I've ever seen posted on this website.
Congratulations.
ruth| 3.21.09 @ 5:38PM
Natasha was a good woman, and a great wife and mother. I am so sorry for her two sons; God bless them, may she rest in peace.
Bill Bailey| 3.21.09 @ 7:01PM
The New York Post
November 19, 2003
HOSPITAL HELL
DAN Aykroyd (above) is no fan of the bureaucratic bungling and cut-rate care of socialized medicine. "One place you don't want to get sick is Quebec," the Canadian actor advised us after a screening of Denys Arcand's "The Barbarian Invasions." "It's all socialized. Believe me, you don't want to go to a hospital there." "Barbarians," a warm and witty tale about a French-Canadian college professor dying of cancer, won best screenplay at Cannes. And judging from the buzz at the dinner after at the Plaza Athne with Todd Solondz, Bret Easton Ellis, Marina Rust and Frank Langella, Manhattan's cognoscenti agree.
Nellie| 3.21.09 @ 7:04PM
Jeez, what a vicious, uninformed bunch you Americans can be. You've got one of the sorriest health care systems in the world -- expensive, inaccessible unless you're either rich, well employed or at death's door (which is part of the reason why it's so expensive: you don't treat a huge whack of your citizens until they're super sick), and fuelled by ignorance of every other health care system in the world. You've got the worst mortality and morbidity rates of the western world. And you think that spending 15% of your GDP on health care means you value it highly. What it means is that you run it badly. The reason Canada's system places it 30th rather than 37th, where you are in your complacent ignorance, is that Canada's system only covers hospital and physician care. All the rest -- pharmaceuticals, long-term care, rehabilitation, etc. -- operates on the same dumb terms that all of yours does, and that drives the cost of the system up and the accessibility down. Which is why Canada doesn't rank higher. You rank lower just because you use the same dumb terms for everything in your health care system. I have no gripe with the States. I quite like the place. But you guys can be so incredibly ignorant about every other place in the world. It's amazing.
Bill Bailey| 3.21.09 @ 7:07PM
Vadum is from Canada, Nellie.
nellie| 3.21.09 @ 7:10PM
By the way, there is no single Canadian health care system. Every province operates its own system, and they vary quite a lot. So all these comments about Quebec's system doesn't tell you much. Furthermore, I can tell you for an absolute fact that Quebec has the most extensive privatization of health care of any province in the country. It is very far from socialized medicine. You folks here need to do a little serious reading and little less turning to Dan Aykroyd for the gospel truth on health care. He can buy himself into good treatment in the States, and he can buy whatever care he wants in Quebec, too. There isn't a single government rule that stops him from doing so. Go read something other than rants from likeminded ideologues.
Shawn Gordon| 11.18.09 @ 2:20AM
Actually, it is arguable that Alberta and Ontario have more privatised health care systems than Quebec. Quebec clinics and diagnostic centres are allowed to operate after hours for a profit, but must operate for free during the day.
Ontario permits private clinics, although there isn't any penetration of such clinics outside of the Greater Toronto Region.
Alberta also permits private clinics, but they have wider penetration than Ontario.
Nellie| 3.21.09 @ 7:12PM
Bill Bailey -- There are uninformed idiots in Canada, too, pushing for a system as inaccessible and expensive as the one in the States because it suits their ideologies.
Nellie| 3.21.09 @ 7:13PM
Bill -- When I said the lot here were vicious and uninformed, I was referring to many of the posters.
Jeremiah| 3.21.09 @ 7:22PM
Nellie --
Most people here are content to have Sean Hannity dictate health care policy.
Actually, you understate the incredible badness of the American system compared with a dozen other industrialized democracies.
We spend stupendous amounts on health care and get way less for our dollar than other countries -- chiefly because of marketing costs.
The hilarious and demonic dark heart of it all is this: Americans PAY their insurance companies to exclude them!
Much of what we pay in premiums and fees goes to pay people whose sole job it is to figure out ways to deny coverage to clients!
It's madness. It's absolute and total madness. But the powers that be are not going to let it change, and the kind of opinions you hear on websites like this are a form of whistling in the dark.
The idea is this: if you talk like you're rich and have nothing to fear, maybe this bizarre, cruel, and completely stupid system will work for you. It's a form of magic thinking that keeps our entire system trucking along, blind and silly.
Jeremiah| 3.21.09 @ 7:24PM
Jack Bauer --
Your paranoid fantasies have no basis in reality. Have you ever been outside the United States?
You should visit England, France, Germany, or Canada at least. Talk to people and listen to opinions other than those you hear on right wing radio.
Bill Bailey| 3.21.09 @ 7:28PM
Nellie, you're a liar. The Canada Health Act specifically forbids competition. That's why people leave Canada for treatment in the U.S. and elsewhere rather than dying on waiting lists.
Bill Bailey| 3.21.09 @ 7:29PM
But HMOs are not good. We should get rid of them are have people pay for services directly. It would be cheaper, ultimately, and better service would be provided.
Nellie| 3.21.09 @ 7:39PM
Bill Bailey -- You remain an uninformed idiot, not to mention a vicious one who goes around calling people liars. Go read the Canada Health Act and get back to me about where it specifically forbids competition. I happen to know the CHA quite well. I'll look forward to hearing all about your research.
Be careful not to go to the Fraser Inst for your information. It is a bunch of ideologues committed to destroying the Cdn health care system in order to bolster the grand economy they think a fully private system would create. Like the 15% of all GDP you besotted, ill-informed Americans are duped into paying. You've been reading too many Fraser Institute reports already if you think people are dying on waiting lists in Canada. It is a nutty overstatement. Far more people die every year in the States waiting to get any treatment before they are in dire than die on waiting lists for anything in Canada.
On that, too, I look forward to seeing what research you can muster other than the Fraser Inst. Good luck!
Bill Bailey| 3.21.09 @ 7:45PM
Screw you, Nellie. Fraser does kickass research and is nonpartisan and nonideological. You are a hack.
MB| 3.21.09 @ 8:11PM
Ms Fran B..I have no idea where you get your Stats, but I live in Canada and my husband needed dialysis treatments last fall, he had them within hours of the Doctors deciding that was the treatment he needed! Longer than 6 months, I don't think so. And I will readily admit our Health Care system has problems, but I think the US system is far from perfect as well! And as for the lack of emergency helicopters, that is a problem that is specific to Montreal, there are many other areas of Canada that do have that service. Please try to get your facts straight.
Jeremiah| 3.21.09 @ 8:36PM
What I'd like is to hear from someone in Canada who does NOT like his health care.
Most people in England, France, and Canada seem perfectly happy with their healthcare systems.
Jeremiah| 3.21.09 @ 8:36PM
What I'd like is to hear from someone in Canada who does NOT like his health care.
Most people in England, France, and Canada seem perfectly happy with their healthcare systems.
eddie willers| 3.21.09 @ 8:46PM
nellie and jeremiah:
Hank Rearden is quite right to note that Canada's health care rating is based on incorrect outcome measures.
Why should a government determine how much people should spend on a particular sector of the economy? Western societies are aging and older people will want to spend more money on wheelchairs than on skis. Americans will still resist a centralized command economy.
Hey Dagny, perhaps a tax on dangerous activities can be considered by the Quebec health minister
Canada's health care is GREAT for the healthy.
Dan| 3.21.09 @ 8:47PM
I sat inside the UCLA medical center with head trauma and had to wait HOURS before I even got a CAT scan. No MRI was even offered. I had to get permission from my insurance (Blue Cross) first, which took 2 days, before being approved for an MRI. I too could have died right inside the walls of the UCLA medical center with the same condition as Richardson. USA is not a shining star example of health care.
Jeremiah| 3.21.09 @ 9:02PM
Eddie --
What YOU should be asking is why should an insurance company be allowed to take YOUR money and then decide whether they PREFER to cover you if you get sick, because that's what our system provides for now.
It's madness. You give them your money. They use it to do everything in their power to EXCLUDE you if you become catastrophically ill (God forbid). And then you THANK them for their free-market solution to the healthcare crisis.
The perfect slave is proud of his chains.
Heather| 3.21.09 @ 9:14PM
You ass-kissing obamabot--don't lecture us on chains. Freakin' marxist.
Francisco D'Anconia| 3.21.09 @ 9:18PM
Dan, Dan, Dan
If you went to the ER with a serious headache a CT scan is actually superior to MRI in visualizing acute intracranial bleeds. The MRI is typically performed later to rule out neoplasms.
In Canada, you would have received a lollipop.
Daphne| 3.21.09 @ 9:19PM
Gramps and granny better look out if Obamacare becomes law, they'll be stuck in a back room to die just like the babies who have survived abortion. Obummer 'special olympics' is a heartless bastard--don't trust him.
Angel| 3.21.09 @ 9:21PM
Probably would have been a nasty flavor lollipop, too--a green one.
dagny taggart| 3.21.09 @ 9:44PM
jeremiah +/- nellie
Universal health care is fiscally unsustainable at this time without rationing. We need to continue to fund Medicare and Medicaid or else the quality will be substantially degraded for the elderly and poor (I thought liberals liked these folks). We need to have menu pricing for doctor fees and hospital charges to foster competition based on price. We need price disclosure of charges paid by insurance companies to hospitals and providers. We must not tax health care insurance and make health care expenses fully deductible. Some sort of voucher system may need to be explored for individuals that fall between Medicaid and employee based insurance.
Subjective value theory states that price can only be determined by the free market. When you impose arbitrary prices you invite rationing or fraud. Yes, I recognize that Medicare and Medicaid are single payor systems. However, they will fall apart if private sector insurance is not there for cost shifting.
Hey Francisco, you're a smart guy!
Kitty| 3.22.09 @ 4:46AM
Wow. What a bunch of hateful people. I thought conservatives were supposed to be the "moral" majority. Heh.
As for Obama "seizing control of the government..." actually, it was called an election, and he won handily.
And his health care plan is not a single payer plan as you've described; you can keep your private health insurance if you have it. But have you considered that the reason our car manufacturers, for example, are having a hard time being competitive with overseas companies is that other countries have national health care -- and the companies DO NOT HAVE TO PAY THESE BENEFITS. They have a leg up on us.
But keep hating. We'll just truck along without you.
Sandra| 3.22.09 @ 7:19AM
While I would like to agree that this lovely lady dies because of some socialized medicine, THIS IS NOT THE CASE HERE. She died because she said she felt OK and that is the whole answer right there.....if she had said anything else she would have gone on to be treated and perhaps have survived.
THIS IS NOT A CASE AGAINST SOCIALIZED MEDICINE, much as I would like it to be..it is not!
Walter| 3.22.09 @ 7:22AM
To jharp: please list these "wonderful health care systems". Pehaps you could send that list out to all of the foreigners who flock to the USA every year for health care. I know you will not respond because left wig imbeciles such as yourself and Magilla Gorilla in DC never respond when confronted to give FACTS.
Mike | 3.22.09 @ 7:25AM
Actually, "universal health care" is a two tiered system...a good system for the politically connected and the rich and famous; and a second, grossly inferior system for the masses.
Oh yes, anyone who thinks Obungler does not want total control over the health care system (remember, he IS a Marxist) has their collective heads in the sand.
djn| 3.22.09 @ 7:25AM
I totally believe that a helicopter bringing Natasha Richardson from the ski resort directly to the trama center would have saved her life. I am still stunned that they took 4 hours of diving time to drive to two hospital, the first lacking trama care. The first hospital gave her steriods but did not perform the emergency procedure to remove the clot and the pressure on her brain. She experience brain death on the way to Montreal...if this happened in our country every malpractice lawyer would be in line for this case.
The fact that this is socialized medicine speaks for itself. Thank you for having the courage to point out the truth.
Lynn| 3.22.09 @ 7:34AM
I'm sticking my toe in on this one, who knows if I'll come out unscathed.
I work in a small rural hospital (15,000) population, head of the finance department.
Here is what I factually know through my position:
Our small hospital, and 4 owned clinics, gave out $7.5 MILLION dollars in care in 12 months to the uninsured/self pay patients.
Many of these patients who I dealt with one-to-one, stated their cases where they couldn't afford to pay their ER visit, doc visit, whatever. While they sat their with their family, each holding their own cell phones, nice, new clothes and drove away in nice cars.
We furnished their healthcare FREE, because when we looked at their income levels, the only income they had was public assistance - food, housing, welfare benefits. So by our state law, we furnish their care, no wait, and just as compassionately as to those who pay.
Too many people are playing the system already, and before anyone says to me they can't find a job, the area I live in has lots of jobs available.
I know there are places in America where the opposite occurs, but I fully believe there are more places in America where people receive quality healthcare, for free now.
KittyM| 3.22.09 @ 8:32AM
To that other KITTY: who wrote: "have you considered that the reason our car manufacturers, for example, are having a hard time being competitive with overseas companies is that other countries have national health care -- and the companies DO NOT HAVE TO PAY THESE BENEFITS."
Your naiveté reminds me of that joke: If you think health care is expensive now, wait until it's free.
US car manufacturers will pay for health care no matter which system we have in the future.
...
LAG| 3.22.09 @ 9:31AM
Did everyone miss the fact that she refused medical treatment for 2 hours? Until she got an excruciating headache.
The resort called an ambulance immediately after she fell and she refused it even though her instructor recommended that she seek treatment.
In Canada you can't force adults to accept medical care if they are conscious and able to make discisions for themselves.
By the time she was willing to accept some treatment, it was probably too late because I understand that she lost consciousness due to the injury soon after the second ambulance was called.
syn| 3.22.09 @ 9:35AM
"universal health care" is a two tiered system...a good system for the politically connected and the rich and famous; and a second, grossly inferior system for the masses."
Yes indeed; under Universal Health Care human behavior dictates that top-notch, experienced doctors will happily work privately for Barack Obama, Warren Buffett, Oprah Winfrey, George Clooney etc., because these dreadful Collectivists will use their Capitalist money to buy quality care while the rest of us are left with the crappy, inexperienced ambulance chasers.
Universal Health Care is an UNFAIR system designed to keep the serfs sick and forever hoping something will change while the Plutocrats in power live to reign forever .
Kim Priestap | 3.22.09 @ 9:46AM
The portion of the AP report that you quoted is no longer in the report. Did the AP rewrite the article and leave it out?
This ABC News report also credit the AP for the information.
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/Movies/story?id=7139585&page=1
Nick in Virginia| 3.22.09 @ 9:49AM
jharp is obviously of the opinion that "I'm all right, the world is all wrong".
I don't think I've ever seen so many people on a single blog come out and attack one person like this, and that one person keeps insisting HE is the only one who "knows the truth".
But in another criticism of the Canadian health care system, Mark Steyn once cited an article showing that there was a 10-month waiting period for a bed in the maternity ward in one Canadian province (sorry I can't remember which one).
Could one of you other knucle-dragging troglodyte right-wingers explain to jharp in one- or two- syllable words what this implies? I'm afraid I'm laughing at him too much to do it myself.
Kim Priestap | 3.22.09 @ 9:49AM
Here's the AP article about the lack of helicopter system in Quebec:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090321/ap_on_re_us/natasha_richardson
Trackback| 3.22.09 @ 10:00AM
Acai berry health benefits, on Acai berry health benefits, links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
KittyM| 3.22.09 @ 10:39AM
FTA: 'While Richardson's initial refusal of medical treatment cost her two hours, she also had to be driven to two hospitals. She didn't arrive at a specialized hospital in Montreal until about four hours after the second 911 call from her hotel room at the Mont Tremblant resort, according to a timeline published by Canada's The Globe and Mail newspaper.
Not being airlifted directly to a trauma center could have cost Richardson crucial moments, Razek said.'
...
mikkins| 3.22.09 @ 10:55AM
So much to correct, so little time....
Facts
1)No one, absolutely no one, is denied health care in the United States. As much as the defenders of the Universal Health Care proponents say it you would think it would have some bases in truth, but it does not. No hospital checks to see if your insured or not when your cut out of a mangled car, call in a Life Flight, ( for you Canadians, this is a medical helicopter used to transport seriously injured patients or patients in need of surgery in which one hospital is not equipped and time is not on the patients side to get to one that is) get you into an emergency room and work to save your life.
Nor are you denied when you walk into a hospital with chest pains and no insurance. If the doctor on call at the time deems you need further tests or attention its done.
2) Fact because most pay out of pocket for health insurance hospitals use this money gained to equip themselves with the latest and greatest medical tools. Why our Canadian friends may ask? Its quite simple....to compete with other hospitals . Therefore we have more of everything then our neighbors to the North.
3)By the way...You know all those new drugs that go out in the market that......
Wait, I am sorry, you may not know of the latest drugs if your Canadian. See , you may not be able to get the latest drug that treats your specific ailment because your government will not allow you to have it and that folks has everything to do with cost.
Meanwhile thank an American paying for his/ her health insurance because it is because of them these drugs are available. We absorb most of the cost for all the R and D for development of new treatments because your government refuses to pay a reasonable price for these new drugs nor provide them to you. So in reality Americans are helping to fund your "free" healthcare as well.
You may rejoice in the fact that the Canadian Health Care System runs at half the cost (which is debatable) of the American system. But in reality your getting half the service and or access that an American does .
P.S. Guess what the latest problem in Maine is......
Give up? Its restrictions on Canadian nurses and other medical workers being able to work in Maine hospitals. Seems to me we don't have enough and need to import them from Canada to keep up with demand....
Whats that tell ya?
jharp| 3.22.09 @ 11:16AM
Good show lefties.
Way to show the kuckledragging wingnuts the ignorance of their position.
Amazing to me how dumb a wingnut can be. Paying twice what the rest of the world pays for healthcare is fine. But raise the top tax rate from 36% to 39%, that'll destroy our economy.
Mwingnut13| 3.22.09 @ 11:17AM
I've read all the comments above. As a ski patroller with over 25 years experience, I have a number of questions. Such as:
-What was the mechanism of the injury? (It's been said that she was taking a private ski lesson - the instructor should be able to describe it.) Did she hit something hard like a support pole or a ski?
-What was the reason anyone would suspect a head injury? I've helped hundreds of people who fell on a beginner slope. A head injury caused by a simple fall on snow, without some other cause or object involved is rare to unheard of.
-It's said that Richardson declined medical treatment. What does that mean? Was she showing any of the signs of head injury (pupils unequal or unreactive, dizzyness, headache, bruising or malformation at the site of the injury, sleepiness, fading in & out of consciousness etc)? Or did just say "I'm fine" when a patroller skied by?
-Was she taken to the First Aid room for evaluation? If so, what symptoms did she present?
Answers to these questions could add some context to the situation. If she was exhibiting any signs of head injury, she should have been informed and "convinced" of the danger. (In over 25 years, we were always able to relay enough information to the injured party to, at the very least, keep them in the First Aid room for a few hours for observation. If she was informed & wouldn't listen, she bears a great deal of responsibility for what happened.) If she wasn't, how was anyone to know?
-When & under what circumstances did anyone realize what was going on?
Without the answers to questions like these, it's impossible to determine what the correct course of action should be.
We simply don't know if her death was caused by the Canadian medical system, the first responders at the scene, by Ms. Richardson's refusal of treatement or just back luck - or some of all four.
The discussion of an American vs Canadian style healthcare system is very serious, and needs to be conducted carefully and factually. It affects all of us.
Let's stop with the name calling, insults and political "gotcha"s and give this the sincere consideration it deserves.
Chantel| 3.22.09 @ 11:18AM
I think blaming the Canadian Health Care system is shameful. It's just another excuse to point the finger at someone else without the facts no less. How many people have died in the US due the lack of paid services? The last child I gave birth to caused some serious complications, I needed to be hospitalized for 2 weeks, then had a nurse take care of me at home 3 days a week for 3 months. I didn't have to pay a penny, not for medication nor for services. Do you get that in the US? Yes, the hospital lacked a helicopter, this may have given her more time, however, how would I know with 100% certainty what caused her final demise? I am not a doctor, a trauma specialist or anyone that could even remotely estimate, yet seems everyone has made the assumption that it must be Canada's fault. Our health system is not perfect, as is neither any other countries, but we do have excellent services and benefits. I predicted that some would want to point the finger. In any event, we can always run in our minds how things should have happened but it won't do us any good or change want did happen. This was a tragic death that although could have been prevented in many ways, can teach us a lesson. I now know the importance of wearing a helmet, in fact, I went skiing last year and did not wear one. I will from now on, especially knowing just how fragile life is.
WendyG| 3.22.09 @ 11:27AM
Natasha Richardson, sadly, made some bad decisions. To not wear a helmet and to refuse medical care, initially.
But then, the crappy care she received did her in. There are goodly numbers of articles in Canadian papers admitting that.
Alfred Newman| 3.22.09 @ 11:32AM
Sorry,
Canada has better health outcomes than the US at a lower cost. According to news reports, Ms. Richardson, for whatever reason, declined medical care. Unless I misunderstand the law, a competent adult cannot be forced to accept medical care. So, what makes this Canada's fault?
Dan Healey| 3.22.09 @ 11:32AM
Yes, and if she lived in the USA and wasn't wealthy and was part of the 45 million without healthcare, she would have been sent by helicopter and got the latest and greatest in technology to save her life. Then she would be sent a 6 figure hospital bill, sell her house to pay the bill, eventually file bankruptcy, sink into major mental depression out of shame and fear, lose her quality of life and shoot herself. The end result would be the same. Anyone that says we all of ACCESS to this latest and greatest US healthcare technology is a blind fool!
mikkins| 3.22.09 @ 11:35AM
Oh before its brought up...
For the record I know that our current health care system has its share of problems. All systems do but on the issues of cost...
A good portion of the cost is due to the endless stream of needles paperwork mandated by the government and frivolous malpractice lawsuits levied by lawyers looking to make a buck.
Even still I will pick going broke providing my daughter with the best possible health care money can buy when seriously ill over not having the option at all every time.
Me and my Wife would rather risk living in a box under a bridge and visiting our daughter living with a family member then warm and cosy in a nice house and visiting her grave.
Its all about priorities.
rickl| 3.22.09 @ 11:37AM
What an incredibly stupid post. Richardson denied treatment, which is what killed her, not Canada's medical system.
tollen| 3.22.09 @ 11:51AM
mikkins
Well said and correct on all facts:)
Also, in reference to the tragedy:
"It's impossible for me to comment specifically about her case, but what I could say is ... driving to Mont Tremblant from the city (Montreal) is a 2 1/2-hour trip, and the closest trauma center is in the city. Our system isn't set up for traumas and doesn't match what's available in other Canadian cities, let alone in the States," Tarek Razek, director of trauma services for the McGill University Health Centre, which represents six of Montreal's hospitals, told the AP.
mikkins| 3.22.09 @ 11:52AM
""Yes, and if she lived in the USA and wasn't wealthy and was part of the 45 million without healthcare, she would have been sent by helicopter and got the latest and greatest in technology to save her life. Then she would be sent a 6 figure hospital bill, sell her house to pay the bill, eventually file bankruptcy, sink into major mental depression out of shame and fear, lose her quality of life and shoot herself. The end result would be the same.""
Thank you for proving my point for me. Me, I would just be happy I was alive. But nice hypothetical. Gloom and doom is always on a liberals mind and is always the ultimate outcome if one must provide for themselves.
Wanna bet which Natasha's husband would choose right now given the option of being broke and having his wife then rich and a widower?
JeffH| 3.22.09 @ 11:52AM
It's not about quality of health care. She killed herself by signing a waiver REFUSING further medical attention. Had she done the responsible thing (i.e. getting a physical examination), chances are she'd still be alive.
Read the first post on this thread by 'rickl'. Case closed.
mikkins| 3.22.09 @ 12:10PM
She at first refused medical treatment. Then it was provided for her. When it was, it could not be provided in a timely matter.
Would it have saved her ,no one can say. The point is for those who cannot make the logical leap...
If she had access to better facilities and medical transportation it could have possibly saved her life.
Even after refusing medical treatment initially.
Maybe if the author had written the artical in crayon it would be easier for some to follow.
Neil| 3.22.09 @ 12:24PM
Wow, another idiotic rightwing attack job on civilized health care. Rightwingers prefer to pay more for less. They also don't want affordable coverage for Americans.
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mikkins| 3.22.09 @ 12:43PM
Artical from CBC ran on March 3,2009
Number of MRIs in Ontario doubles but poor get fewer than before
From the article: " An infusion of cash to cut long MRI wait times has doubled the number of the annual diagnostic scans performed in Ontario since 2004, but the increase seems to be benefiting wealthy patients far more than their poorer counterparts, a study has found.
When the study started in April 2002, patients living in the richest one-fifth of the province's neighbourhoods were 25 per cent more likely to receive magnetic resonance imaging than those living in the poorest one-fifth of neighbourhoods.
Yet even after Ontario invested $118 million to shorten wait times, it did little to narrow the gap between rich and poor. In fact, access disparity actually widened over five years, with the wealthiest patients being 38 per cent more likely to get an MRI than the poorest"
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/03/03/mri-access.html
Your living a lie...
EL| 3.22.09 @ 12:46PM
"The people in the USA don't die WAITING for an MRI cat scan or for dialysis! THEY DO IN CANADA NOW that is a fact. "
Sorry, but they die in the USA as well. They die because instead of the government making financial decisions affecting health care, health insurance companies make financial decisions affecting health care.
Our health care in the US ranks surprising low - we spend more but get poorer outcomes because of the way we spend the money. This isn't new or hidden, several reports have found this.
Bob Cirba| 3.22.09 @ 12:48PM
KITTY, does passionate opposition to government-controlled health "care" equal "hate"? The hateful one are those like you who despise people having free choice. And as DJN says, in the U.S., Natasha's death would be the impetus for a successful mega-million dollar lawsuit. The *hateful* people are those who would rather allow the Natashas of the world to die than have some inequality of treatment. *Everyone* in America receives *critical* care now as soon as possible, and we will until the Marxist Obots destroy our entire system.
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Director Movies| 3.22.09 @ 1:01PM
"For God's sake you imbeciles. Take a look around. There are other wonderful heath care systems that deliver the same care of we do for half the cost. "
Yeah? Where?
Anyway, moron, just because someone ELSE (e.g., the public) pays the medical bill, it doesn't follow that you've reduced the COST of the medical care. The cost is still the same -- the medical care costs what it costs. All you've done is to break the economic link between the end-user of the care and the provider of the care. That means that you've provided a huge incentive to the end user NOT to economize on his demand for medical care (because someone else is paying for it, so he might as well request as much of it as he can), while simultaneously not providing any incentive to the providers to increase their supply of it. Government will therefore start RATIONING the medical care, and the rationing will take the form of (i) cost-cutting, leading to the lack of essential technology and personnel; and (ii) lots and lots and lots of waiting on the part of patients. The free market "rations" goods and services by means of price; socialism and all forms of central economic planning ration things by means of time: you get in line and you wait and wait and wait, and no matter how many bills from your wallet you wave around, there's no place else to go because government has disallowed anyone else to compete with it. That's the Canadian system. The UK system is almost as bad, but at least it permits some private healthcare systems to compete alongside the nationalized one. Most of the healthcare systems in continental Europe are not "single payer" and permit some amount of market competition...which is what saves their medical care from total collapse. If they abolished the government-run, publicly-subsidized system, private enterprise would rush in to fill the gap and competition would raise the quality and lower the price (just as it has with every other commodity and service, whether it's baked goods, shoes, or consumer electronics). They don't do this because it would be politically inexpedient; government would not be able to say "Look at the wonderful service we're providing you! See how important big central government is to your very life!"
For government, it's all about staying in power.
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wow| 3.22.09 @ 1:38PM
You are ignorant. Fuck you.
Michelle in Montreal| 3.22.09 @ 1:42PM
What an irresponsible, uninformed piece of drivel. Sick that you're using the death of a woman to suit your agenda in this way. Shame on you.
WendyG| 3.22.09 @ 1:44PM
There is a reason people like King Hussein of Jordan (when he was very ill with cancer) come to the US for care. Because we have the best medical care system in the world. Insurance is out there, if they lazy give-me-a-handout crowd just looks for it.
For instance, anyone over 50 (it may be 55) can get health insurance from AARP, if they join. And it's very inexpensive to join.
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paul| 3.22.09 @ 2:35PM
I know why russ ,hannity and oreilly stir up disinformation,but the above american posters most be making money spreading lies. What's the pay scale,10 cents a post. I can respect any opinion if it's examined, well researched. What frightens me are the masses out there who just say amen without thinking.
PeteC| 3.22.09 @ 3:00PM
Interesting comments. What I find fascinating is that those claiming to be from Canada and the UK and who are singing the praises of single-payer health care don't seem content to live and let live, instead railing against the U.S. for not adopting their system. Can anyone tell me why that might be?
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Will| 3.22.09 @ 3:41PM
Jharp and those praising UHC especially from Canada and Europe . You are grossly mistaken about your assumptions . I work in a 250 bed capacity private hospital in Chicago and let me tell you this , we often admit self pay patients to our units to be treated for CHF , MI , End Stage Renal Disease , COPD , GI Bleed and etc . Hell , my father who have no insurance was treated and release after five days for Diabetes Type II . The MD ordered tests like EKG , MRI/MRA , CT , EMG , Persantine Myoview Stress Test and a multitude of lab test and in addition , he was prescribed medications such as Novolog and Lyrica . So the lame attempt of telling a nurse that we don't treat uninsured patients are basically speaking from the position of ignorance and gross manipulation of facts .
Paul
And how much do they pay you posting in this thread ? 10 dollars for every letter in your post ?
paul| 3.22.09 @ 3:47PM
to PeteC, Our healthcare system has it's faults,which we all want to improve. The worry of receiving healthcare in canada is not any issue. Generally people always know it is available,employeed or not,sick or not. I could leave my house at this moment drive any direction,walk into any clinic, or hospital,present my care card and have my needs looked after. Having driven in the states and spoken to several truck drivers,one who had to chose between buying insurance for his two children,or his wife and himself. We don't have the healthcare corp. with it's greedy hand in the way. If canada spend as much on healthcare as the states, we'd have one kickass system. Don't mean to offend, thanks
Bob Cirba| 3.22.09 @ 4:15PM
MICHELLE, like all leftists, you make a gratuitous statement, and fail to explain the fallaciousness. Were our Marxist government not trying to impose this worthless insanity on us, it would be Quebec's problem to ponder.
paul| 3.22.09 @ 5:02PM
hi bob cirba, a lot of big words there,too many generalizations, not much substance. I'd like to think most people lean left or right depending on the subject. People are more complicated ,can't generalize.thanks
Will| 3.22.09 @ 5:08PM
Paul
There are a lot of american health insurance companies that offer family plans and they are highly competitive . Second , the prevailing myth that americans should have insurance in order to get treated in an American hospital is pure hogwash . American hospitals will treat anybody , period . See my personal example .
will| 3.22.09 @ 5:49PM
Will,thanks for your response, The sad part of the healthcare argument is that each of the posters could point to one case of "healthcare misfortune"and feel it justifies their argument. I believe each citizen should have a right to healthcare. If that makes me a socialist,so be it . The people should be valued. No one's saying ,replicate canada's healthcare in the U.S.. Make it better,but please include everyone. Will,please answer this question for me. About a decade ago we had american seniors flooding over our border to buy our medical drugs. That was stopped by your government pressuring canada. At the time I couldn't help asking why the U.S. government was protecting big parma,and not U.S. citizens. thanks
Will| 3.22.09 @ 6:02PM
The correct question would be this , why do politicians and government bureaucrats are passing ridiculous regulations on pharmaceutical companies while at the same time , making it impossible for small pharma companies to get off the ground running in order to compete . It does not also help that pharmaceutical companies had to deal with greedy law firms that want to get money from them . Case in point , John Edwards , a premier ambulance chaser .
Do you know why medicines are expensive ? It has everything to do with regulations and lawyers , not pharmaceutical greed .
Will| 3.22.09 @ 6:11PM
We are treating everyone , from the tourist that just step off the plane , to the illegal that was sick of TB , the alcoholic homeless that wants his shot , to the NH patient that needs suctioning every 2 minutes , to the arrogant know it all that is well insured and the rich that thinks his money can find a cure for his disease .
I have seen it all and here is my point , the government's interference with American health care , particularly , the politicians who are addicted to votes and lobbyists money are the ones that made American health care expensive . That is the reason why a lot of american hospitals are closing or had already closed down .
paul| 3.22.09 @ 6:30PM
Will, I'm sure you have a point about greedy law firms,but why can canada buy medical drugs at a cheaper cost then the HMOs in the states. From what I understand( i may be wrong) canada buys medical drugs through one purchasing agent. As for small pharma,I've owned a few small drug stocks ,with promising drugs that were fast tracked that never could get approval. I don't think the healthcare industry wants healthy peaple. Having healthy people who never get sick would be like GM building a car that never broke down.
Will| 3.22.09 @ 6:54PM
Simple reason which you already pointed out , that would be that one purchasing agent that Canada is doing business with . Single entity , no competition , price it already set , if medication is highly expensive and newly released by the Pharmaceutical firms , there is an excellent chance that that medication would not be sold in Canada .
Again , blaming the health industry for the work of the government and it's bureaucrats . It would not matter if that medication can cure cancer , cure diabetes and restore your youth , if the bureaucrats in the government think that those medicines need more studies and tests before it gets approval , then so be it . Pharma firms can only do so much .
mikkins| 3.22.09 @ 8:31PM
One point about Canadians be able to buy medications at a lower cost.
Like other UHC countries the Canadian government all but blackmails the American Pharmaceutical Industry to either provide medications at a reduced cost or they will limit the availability of their products in said country or even better yet, they will just go ahead and produce them on their own, ignoring patent laws thus stealing the rights to the product from the Pharmaceuticals who spent the money to research and develop the medicine.
In fact this is part of the reason why Americans pay more for prescription. They are left making up the difference. Like I said above Americans do help subsidize UHC participants cost by having to pay more then the would if everyone paid the same amount
Debra Lee| 3.22.09 @ 11:26PM
I am overwhelmed by the lack of respect offered for the deceased. I hear that she was a wonderful person. It is very sad that this has happened to her. Unfortunately, all I read on this page is two-year olds fighting over political issues. Let's just get this over with - red states separate from the blue! We'll build borders and when the blue states all kill each others any remaining won't be able to get in!
FC| 3.23.09 @ 9:41AM
I would like to offer my sympathy and correct some inaccuracy.
Quebec public health care systems as a fleet compose of 2 Bombardier Challeger airplane , one hospital equips and ambulance equip. Helicopter ambulance service is assured by a non-profit organisation ( AirMedic ). Both service cover the entire province especially remote area, considering the vast territory an elaborate air emergency service is provided.
Sacre- Coeur (Sacred heart) hospital, located in Montreal is one of the most advance trauma centre in North America with and heliport, state of the art equipment and experience medical team.
St-Agathe hospital, located 1 hour from Montreal, is a regional hospital part of a larger regional organisation that offers medical and social care, 1200 employees and doctor in many installations with 350 beds for short and long term care serving a population of 60,000.
It also surprising that the head of trauma from McGill would say that they are not set-up to treat trauma patient.
All this to say, even if our public system is not perfect, a Canadian will live 3 years longer and 3 more baby will survive, compare to US . It unfortunate that some use this tragedy to promote their ideology with false information.
M. Guillaume Bailey| 3.23.09 @ 8:56PM
Quebec health care sucks.
Winston Smith| 3.25.09 @ 2:07AM
FTA: "as long as everyone receives equal treatment."
Somehow I doubt that congressmen and senators and the Hollywood elite will be forced to wait in line with the hoi polloi to see a doctor. What health care system will they use? "
Uh aren't we talking about a rich celebrity at an elite resort dying in just such a situration?
Francesca| 3.25.09 @ 2:50AM
Jharp, do you have an actual counterpoint here? And some variation of republicans are dumb and inhuman is adhominem and doesn't count. I guess the cruddy public schools aren't teaching logic and debate anymore.
R Weilep| 3.25.09 @ 11:03AM
Most if not all small hospitals in the US have ct scanners. Question here is did the small regional hospital she was taken to first have one? If so it would have immediatly told them what was wrong and treatment from there is usually fairly straight forward. Having grown up on the us canadian border, and knowing many people from the canadian healthcare system, I can say with certainty that lack of funding there causes long waits for tests when expensive equipment like ct, mri, pet scanners etc are ordered. Waiting in this case "did" play a major role.
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According to Google maps, it's actually a 1.5 hour drive to the hospital. Probably even faster if you don't refuse the ambulance.
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Starry| 3.27.09 @ 2:02AM
Simply stated: If Natasha Richardson had been skiing in the U.S., she would be alive today. I'm sorry for her two young sons.
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Nikita| 3.27.09 @ 4:41PM
This article is a red herring -- Natasha Richardson did die from a lack of immediate care. But even the best healthcare in the world is meaningless if you decline it, as she did.
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KBG| 3.28.09 @ 12:18PM
After reading these comments... I have one comment... typical liberal responses... call people names for stating the facts... grasp on to one alleged fact that they claim negates all others when it does not... & ignore that socialism has failed everywhere it has ever been used ... except its a success in their minds... can't wait to see what names they call me now !!!
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Elina| 3.29.09 @ 11:16AM
Typical American as Richardson was, she exercised the freedom of choice - she refused first aid treatment. Do not blame Canada for the American freedom of choice.
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Sean| 3.29.09 @ 12:54PM
Canada has a 10th of the population of the U.S. and is larger. Our problem isn't socialzed medicine persay, but trying to do it with such a low population density. And we don't have people dying in the waiting room because of lack of insurance.
letterbue| 3.29.09 @ 2:34PM
yah - go right ahead and blame Canada's medical system! She died from that fall and there is no one you can blame for that!
Still you could say that it was all Canada's fault but it may also be your fault because she was taken out of Canada and moved into the US while she was in critical condition.
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Womp | 3.31.09 @ 3:53PM
Honestly, I think that the Universal Health Care Plan is unnecessary and will be damaging to the United States. If we make health care for everyone,the wages for doctors will decrease, and honestly, why would anyone want to aspire to be one anymore. Doctors don't really want to try as hard, not to mention the fact that you must wait your turn, even if a child just had an ear ache and you've got much more serious issues. Perhaps you guys can't see the inadverse affects that this health care plan will have on us.
I know half of you are going to try and eat me alive for disagreeing with you, so go ahead. It's not going to change the fact that we are headed for a dark part of our history.
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Joe Blow| 4.4.09 @ 8:50PM
Woman ignores advice to go to hospital. Does not get in ambulance that was called 45 min post accident. 3rs later when decompensates goes to hospital which DOES HAVE CT SCANNER (sure not all quebec hospitals have ct scanners but if the population of that town is only 1000 people is it really worth it, remember we have better population health outcomes for a lower cost). Sure no neuro surgeon but not EVERY rural hospital can have a neurosureon. Unclear if she got burr holes in the ER there (patient confidentiality has not released that info yet). Transferred 45 min by ground to Level 1 trauma center where I understand underwent surgery, bad bleeding leading on top of already significant brain edema from delayed presentation = bad outcome, transferred to USA so plug could be pulled with family at bedside. How is the Canada’s fault?
Sure Quebec does not have helicopters, have you seen their population density? Totally not reasonable for the $'s. Province is 594860 square miles. North to south the length is 1,971 kilometers (1,225 miles). From east to west it is about 1580 kilometers (982 miles). Similar dimensions in the USA as the crow flies is from the Canadian Quebec - USA Border to the tip of Flordia and from NYC to the other end of Illinois. Canada is flipping HUGE. We're 300,000 sq mi bigger than the USA but have 1/10th the population. That's alot of sq miles to cover with regards to healthcare. While Quebec does not have helicopters they do have fixed wing air ambulances though.
Sorry, problem here was with the patient delaying her presentation to definitive management. Blame the pt, not the Canadian system.
I'm not saying we have the perfect system. Sure if you have money you will get better care in the US (at least from a wait time perspective anyways). BUT we spend less per capita on health care than the USA but have better infant mortality, a longer life expectancy and better cancer survival prognosis among other indicators of health. You might wait 2-3 years for your total hip but you need your cancer therapy you will get it pronto and you will not go bankrupt because of it. Really the nightmare stories do happen but they happen everywhere and often have extra info that is not included (eg. woman who had to go to the USA for cancer therapy and is out 60k but they don't mention she had stage 4 Ovarian CA, deemed palliative and went to the USA for unproven, experimental therapy).
Just my 2 cents.
RD| 4.6.09 @ 5:27PM
this was a very dishonest piece.
She declined treatment because she thought she was fine. This was why she died and trying to reorganize the facts to match your agenda is quite morbid.
I'd say shame on you but clearly you have no shame.
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Joe| 4.9.09 @ 10:44PM
Wow, this is interesting. Healthcare, the silent killer. I wonder how many people in the US die because of the healthcare system here.
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Wow, this is a great idea. The next time someone dies in the US I'm going to blame it on the healthcare system, no matter how much of a sneaky stretch it is.
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jmn| 6.6.09 @ 2:30PM
Why do 99% of canadians like the system of health care that they have and would never go back to the american system? I think the horror stories of universal heath care in this post are very much exaggerated and are driven by ignorance, insurance companies and drug companies. How is it that so few have kept so many so stupid for so long?
jmn| 6.6.09 @ 2:32PM
Why do 99% of canadians like the system of health care that they have and would never go back to the american system? I think the horror stories of universal heath care in this post are very much exaggerated and are driven by ignorance, insurance companies and drug companies. How is it that so few have kept so many so stupid for so long?
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A. Canadian| 7.22.09 @ 4:32PM
Which country's citizens are having a national conversation on healthcare? That would be the US. We don't need one up here in the real land of the free. Our system works fine. Perhaps thats why there is a black market for provincial healthcare cards in the border states.
Former Canadian| 8.6.09 @ 9:20PM
As a former Canadians with extended family up in Canada, the horror stories are true. 2 year wait for knee replacement, unable to request a specialist, the government determines if you can see a specialist and then the wait is 6 months or more. GP's deliver babies, only at-risk pregnancies see an OB. ER waiting rooms are being curtained off for patients waiting who can't get a hospital bed. Why do Canadians who can afford it, come down here for health care. Why will students go into medicine when they get paid $15 for an office visit and have no protection from malpractice lawsuits (Obama won't initiate medical lawsuit limits)? I used to be a Republican but I am disgusted by all politicians, they are out of the loop and have no interest in protecting the future of us individuals but rather are beholding to special interest groups. Our poor children, we are being sold down the river. Wait up America!
Pierre| 8.6.09 @ 10:45PM
To the so called "former Canadian". You are full of it. Let's begin.
Wait times are not 2 years for knee replacement. In B.C. they are 13 weeks, and many receive them in a few weeks. In Ontario, the average wait time is less than 180 days, and wait times in Ontario is measured based on 90% of those waiting getting the procedure. Therefore, in under 180 days, 90% of those in Ontario waiting for a knee replacement, get it. The gov't DOES NOT determine if you see a specialist, you can request that at ANY time through a primary care doctor. Who is more than happy to do for you. EVERYTIME!!! Most GP's in Canada don't deliver babies these days, OB's do. Another big full of it claim. ER waiting times can be long, but they are in the States as well. Cripe, do some research. Canadians, and the vast majority, (99.7%) get their care in Canada. Canadians crossing the border to get care, does happen, but it is a trickle not a flood. And doctors are one of THE highest paid professions in Canada, so there are thousands that try to get into Med schools in CAnada every year. Nice try on that one too.
Something tells me that you are no former Canadian. Could it be all your falsehoods???
Wait up America??? Did you mean Wake up??? Wake up indeed!!!!
JL| 8.14.09 @ 9:29AM
Not a former Canadian. I am both a Canadian and American. I have lived in Boston and Los Angeles.
I now live in Toronto. And while the Canadian system is has its flaws, there is NO wait time for 2 yrs for knee or hip replacement surgery. EVER. Pierre is right. YOU request the specialist and you can see him or as many different specialists as you deem necessary to make a decision. Neither the gov't NOR the doctor prevent you from doing that.
My GP delivers babies, but Pierre is right, in Canada OBGYN deliver babies for the most part.
And as I said before:
The title and premise of this article is completely misleading ( deliberately I might add) and a pathetic scare tactic. It's also a LIE.
It should be noted1) Natasha DECLINED any treatment for 2 hours. 2) I suffered a bad accident at Tremblant, and CT Equipment and team was available within 10 minutes.
Had Natasha NOT declined treatment -she likely would have been alive today. While Quebec may not have a helo to airlift trauma patients - other provinces do. And you will note he said as much himself. hence this isn't a "socialized medicine" issue - its a CHOICE made by the Province. Consider part of "states rights". Its not about cost since OTHER cities in other provinces have airlift capabilities.
Lets be really clear here: what likely killed Natasha was that she DECLINED all treatment in the first crucial moments. Had she done what was told of her, to have a CT specialist examine her immediately after the accident -she likely would be alive today!
If she were conscious at 4 p.m., she'd most likely have been diagnosed and treated about that time, receiving care unavailable in the local Canadian hospital.
BLANTANT LIE. There are CT experts available at the local hospital. I know. I suffered a serious injury while skiing at Tremblant, was not wearing a helmet, hit the ground hard, and didn't decline the treatment offered- A CT specialist was available & performed all necessary tests.
Also I have skiied throughout the US and know with absolute certainty that FAR more resorts lack helos and local hospitals lack the proper equipment & specialists to deal with head trauma.
As I result I selectively chose which resorts I ski at in the US for that reason!
This article is pure hyperbole & mostly BS. As for the DR. 1) he's not the leading specialist 2) he's biased. He doesn't get to earn as much as he would in the US and as such blames the system - but NOT all the system - just the city he works in.
While I appreciate he'd like to get paid more, he also paid FAR less for his medical education in Canada subsidised by TAXPAYERS. Truth is he'd like to get paid OUT OF POCKET for is services which would render them TO EXPENSIVE for most people to afford.
I have lived in both Canada and the US. My experience with the HC system in the US has always been far worse than ANYTHING I have ever experienced in Canada. And to boot the cost in the US to me in both private insurance and out of pocket expense for treatments INSURANCE REFUSED TO COVER was outrageous.
No system is perfect . There are many good arguments to be made against Obama care. But using Natasha's death is NOT. SHE DECLINED ANY AND ALL MEDICAL HELP AVAILABLE TO HER. AND THERE WAS EXCELLENT MEDICAL HELP AVAILABLE CONTRARY TO WHAT THIS ARTICLE IMPLIES. And isn't America supposed to all about INDIVIDUAL CHOICE.
She made a sad mistake in wasting two hours before getting treated. & ONLY got treated when her headaches got so bad she couldn't see straight. BY THEN IT WAS TOO LATE.
Stop blaming HER decision not to seek treatment immediately on the Health Care system in Canada.
I sought treatment immediately and I m alive. The same can be said for HUNDREDS of others who have sustained head trauma in Canada whether thru skiing accidents or a myriad of others accidents.
Only a lowlife so incapable of making a rational fact based argument against Obamacare would stoop so low as to blame Natasha Richardsons death on Canada's Health Care system.
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