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Streetcar Line
Why Revenge Is Necessary
The frightening affront of Obamacare.
Every member of Congress who is not a liberal ideologue or from a wildly leftist district who voted for Obamacare on Sunday should be haunted and hounded by and for their vote for as long as they draw breath upon this good Earth. And the same is true for every liberal ideologue who actively crafted and pushed the corrupt and unrepublican (small “r”) procedures and flagrant lies that were used to cram Obamacare up our gullets from the nether end of our common polity.
Before we consider the proper shape and degree of the hounding and haunting, let us be reminded of why this legislation is an atrocity of epic proportions.
Let us start with all the lies that Barack Obama told or the promises that he broke, each one of which will damage our way of life as the falsehood is made manifest in law.
This president, this sinister creature of Frank Marshall Davis and Saul Alinsky, of Indonesian sojourns and Columbia University radical salons, campaigned vociferously against Hillary Clinton’s call for an individual mandate for health insurance. Now the individual mandate is the centerpiece of Obamacare.
Obama promised that he would never, ever raise taxes on individuals making under $200,000 or couples under $250,000. This legislation breaks that promise.
Obama said the bill would not provide public funding of abortions. It does provide such funding.
He said it would cause average premiums to drop by $2,500 annually. Premiums instead will rise. He said he would not tax health-care benefits. This bill does tax them. He said his plan wouldn’t lead to rationing. It actually does far worse than mere rationing: It provides for death panels by proxy.
Obama said that “budget reconciliation” was improper for passing Obamacare. He is using reconciliation. He said that a 51-vote simple majority in the Senate should not suffice for major legislation. He is using a simple majority. He said during the judicial wars that the filibuster should be sacrosanct, but he is trampling over the filibuster. He said he would cut out sweetheart deals, but instead he engaged in a host of such deals. He said he would do all negotiations in the open, and without corrupt lobbyist influence, but instead he cut secret deals (secret at first) with a whoring PhRMA and with other moneyed interests. He said he would air the negotiations on C-Span, but he didn’t. He said he wouldn’t support a “public option,” but he told the lefties in Congress that this would be merely a first step towards a public option. He said he would incorporate Republican ideas, but the final legislation was devoid of all but one minor GOP suggestion. He said Republicans would be welcome at the table, but they instead were almost entirely shut out (except for some early negotiations with Montana’s Sen. Max Baucus) of actual legislative drafting. Instead, they belatedly were afforded only a dog-and-pony show at Blair House where Obama was peevish, where he personally jawboned the GOP (not to mention what he let other Democrats do) for more minutes than the GOP collectively talked, and where he never actually responded to the substance of most Republicans complaints and ideas.
He repeatedly advertised that his bill would give all Americans the same system that Congress enjoys; instead, it actually exempts top lawmakers and staffs from the bill’s requirements. And he promised that he would post any bill on the Internet for five whole days, after congressional passage, before he signed it. But he signed this bill after just 36 hours.
And that’s just a sample of the dishonesty of The One.
Meanwhile, it is hard to blame, on substance, the ideological lefties who really believe in this stuff, or to blame those who represent far-left districts and feel obliged to represent their constituents’ wills. But for every other congressman who voted for Obamacare — all those on the fence on substance, and whose districts are not strongly in favor of it (and indeed usually strongly against it) — what they have done is an affront to the republic and to human decency. And what the congressional leadership did to the lawmaking process is an affront to our system of government.
The mandate to buy health insurance is an abomination. The very thought of a government forcing individuals to buy something the individuals don’t want is anathema. It is abject tyranny. It is manifestly unconstitutional. It is despotic. It is so antithetical to the American tradition as to be unacceptable and invalid. For those reasons, it may well lead to non-violent civil disobedience on a massive scale.
It is worse still that lawmakers would refuse to put themselves or their staffs under the same system it puts the 300-million-strong rest of the hoi polloi. It is worse still that Obamacare’s system of incentives is such that the CBO estimates that four million people will lose their employer-based plans and thus be put in the position of being subject to the unconstitutional mandate. (This, by the way, gives the lie to yet another Obama claim, namely that nobody would lose their insurance if they want to keep it.)
The bill is a job-killer. It puts a mandate on businesses that employ at least 50 workers — which means that thousands upon thousands of firms will cut their official payrolls to 49. It is a taxing atrocity, imposing $569.2 billion in tax hikes. It will especially hurt medical device companies through new taxes and “fees,” putting some out of business and hurting the patients who rely on them for life-saving or life-improving aid. And, to collect all its taxes, it will — it already has begun, in terms of planning — lead to the literally frightening spectacle of the hiring of some 16,500 new IRS agents, making the IRS an enforcement army, with imprisoning authority, on par with the worst of the commissars of the most autocratic czars.
Put this scary influx of IRS commissars together with the 175,000 new members of AmeriCorps now organized officially into “cadres,” and all of a sudden we’re getting within hailing distance of Obama’s threatened “a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded” as the regular military.
About the Author
Quin Hillyer is a senior editor of The American Spectator and a senior fellow at the Center for Individual Freedom. Follow him on Twitter @QuinHillyer.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (364) | Leave a comment
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Brian Mc| 3.25.10 @ 6:43AM
This acclamation should be on the front page of the New York Times. But, sadly, as usual, only the choir is hearing what every American needs to hear.
The ignorant masses who can't tell you who their congressional representative is are already starting a stampede towards the clinics demanding their free health care, paid by you...and they want it NOW.
What a vile evil the left has unleashed as they gloatingly celebrate their monstrous power grab that appears to have worked...for the time being. And, if sensibility rules the day and they are overturned, the ignorant will rise up in indignation and then, can civil war be that far behind their displeasure?
COnservative Bob| 3.25.10 @ 9:31AM
Atricle V
JayDick| 3.25.10 @ 11:29AM
We have needed an Article V convention for years. It's need has now become more critical and more apparent. We know congress is not going to change anything; Article V is the only hope.
richard| 3.25.10 @ 12:48PM
the problem with is pelosi will run it
Conservative Bob| 3.25.10 @ 12:56PM
Richard
I think she is expressly excluded from that role.
Article 5 is the safety vale for the states and the people to curb the excesses if a run away central government.
I think few would argue that we have not reached that point.
Cincinnatius| 3.25.10 @ 12:53PM
AGREED. Article V is the ONLY way America will survive. Sadly, maybe one in a million have any concept of what Article V is or how it would be used to correct the multitude of sins that need to be addressed. I have personally started a letter writing drive to the state legislature demanding that they call for a convention. This may be the opportunity to refocus the anger in the right direction, at the source of power...the law. I advocate the repeal of the 16th and 17th amendments and propose the 28th, term limits, at least until the people are once again smart enough to vote! If we don't stop it now, it will soon be unstoppable.
Alan Brooks| 3.26.10 @ 12:30AM
"Atricle V"
As in atrial fibrillation?
WM| 3.25.10 @ 10:26AM
Stop the silliness. The bill is still extremely unpopular, no one is going to rise up in arms if the bill is thrown out of court or repealed, and we are not going to allow the country to descend into statism.
You movement libertarians can be ridiculous in your self-pity. After you have had a good cry, do you think you can come back and join the majority in getting the monstrosity repealed?
CW| 3.25.10 @ 11:33AM
WM, Obama is just doubling down on 'conservative' Bush's policies (drug prescription benefit and mega-pork). Libertarians left because the Republican party canceled the deal between social conservatives and libertarians. They thought they could just be against abortion and spend like drunken sailors and they would be fine.
What is going to make me vote Republican? Romney.?. He installed his own version of Obamacare in his state. Coburn (OK) and Linder (GA) are about the only Republicans I trust.
JayDick| 3.25.10 @ 12:06PM
I agree Republicans, in general, have not been great. But Democrats are much worse and the choice usually comes down to those two. I say:
1. Get rid of "statist" Republicans; put real conservatives in their places.
2. Pick a Republican over a Democrat every time.
3. Convene a constitutional convention under Article V to return power to the states and the people, where it belongs and from whom it has been stolen.
L.C. | 3.25.10 @ 12:49PM
Tom Coburn is the best Oklahoma has and he will fight this Obamanation to his last breath. Thank God for Coburn!!! I'm very proud to be an Okie when Tom is known as Dr. "NO" to the libs! ! !
Jim| 3.25.10 @ 1:06PM
Coburn is good. But Inhofe isn't bad either. OK overall is a pretty good state with good politicians, good fishing too!
AZ Patriot| 3.25.10 @ 1:46PM
Let's not forget Dr. Ron Paul who is the only congressman I trust. This man has personal integrity and CONSISTENTLY supports and defends the Constitution every time he votes. Now, I don't agree with the good doctor 100% but I definitely agree with him more often than not and what is more important, I TRUST him to walk his talk - unlike other politicians!
VoteRepubPurgeRINOsHYPOCRITES| 3.25.10 @ 8:59PM
Actually, let's forget unelectable hypocrites whose detachment from reality would be as great a disaster in the general election as McCain's schizoid non-campaign proved to be, see:
"Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) has been known to say "no" to party leadership frequently during the libertarian icon's 11 terms in the House. But his recent decision to reject the House GOP's earmark ban by requesting 41 projects totaling more than $100 million for his Congressional district may not be excused."
http://reason.com/blog/2010/03.....an-congres
Lloyd Welch| 3.28.10 @ 7:29AM
Yes Ron Paul is the ONLY one I trust. He is the only one I know of that totally supports the constutition. If he were elected (with a conserative majority) we could start this contry back on the right track but, it will take years to undo all the damage that has been done in the last one hundred years. Who could follow in such a great mans footsteps?
Alan Brooks| 3.26.10 @ 12:33AM
"You movement libertarians can be ridiculous in your self-pity."
libertarianism, at least small-morals libertarianism, is the greatest rival to 'balanced' (non- gullible) conservatism.
John J | 3.25.10 @ 2:05PM
I say we all refuse to pay out taxes because we morally oppose the federal funding of abortion. I don't want innocent blood on my hands. If everyone told the gov't to screw off next tax season, that would give them pause. what are they going to do? Arrest 20 million + people.
zaphod| 3.25.10 @ 11:27PM
YOU LOST ha ha ha ha ha
Radegunda| 3.25.10 @ 11:37PM
You'll be a loser soon too--unless you get those government-payroll privileges. You're just too ignorant to understand facts. All you've got is a childish bully-taunt, to go with the bully-boy in the White House who is stealing the WHOLE COUNTRY's future.
tailgunner13| 4.1.10 @ 10:13AM
Sucker.
Michele San Pietro| 3.25.10 @ 6:45AM
Obama is crazy, we must stop him before it is too late!
Petronius| 3.25.10 @ 11:07AM
It was too late back in August 1968 when Sheriff Woods did not give the order to open fire on the hippies polluting downtown Chicago with their presence.
Petronius| 3.25.10 @ 11:14AM
It was too late back in August 1968 when Sheriff Woods did not give the order to open fire on the hippies polluting downtown Chicago with their presence.
Rob Johnson| 3.25.10 @ 3:17PM
I've heard many people claim that the problems of modern American politics can be traced to the Chicago Democratic Convention in 1968, but I've never heard anyone say that the problem was that the police didn't crack down hard ENOUGH on the protestors.
Interesting theory. You, my friend, are a truly original thinker, but not necessarily in a good way.
I would tell all of you the same thing I told my liberal friends when they were sure Bush was the Antichrist and the End of Days was upon us.
Namely, that America is too strong a country to be destroyed by one person, no matter how incompetent they may be, and to have a little faith in America and the American people.
There is nothing Obama has done that can't be undone if the GOP wins the next two elections. Calm down, take a deep breath, it will be alright.
Shay| 3.25.10 @ 4:05PM
We need more like you, Rob!!
CM| 3.25.10 @ 8:39PM
“The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the presidency. It will be easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their president. The problem is much deeper and far more serious than Mr. Obama, who is a mere symptom
of what ails us. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince. The republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president.”
LiberalsMakeUsWeakPoor| 3.25.10 @ 9:15PM
I don't doubt that the bulk of Obama's voters were deluded fools, but the real problem was that the Repub establishment candidate was a complete disaster, who would not get tough and engage with BO on the issues, and ran what can only be described as a content and message less campaign (his one and only shrewd move was S. Palin, if only b/c she motivated the base in ways he could not, after his long years in Congress undermining true conservative achievement and demonstrating pure folly as a leader of the Gang of 14). The repub establishment made it easy for BO by picking McCain - its not like there was not a lot of material to hit BO with - but McCain refused. And now the country is paying the price, big time. A special thank-you to Charlie Crist!
So, I think the greater danger is a republican party leadership that views prez nominations as the entitlement of the most loyal runner-up in the last primary. We've seen loyal losers nominated time and again (McCain, Dole, BushI), and the dems go on to win in the general without working up a sweat. Let's keep the apparachiks off the levers of power, let the primary system test the candidates (because the dems sure will in the general). So get out there and volunteer / donate.
Lloyd Welch| 3.28.10 @ 7:50AM
CM, you are definately a thinking person, but Obama is no fool. He knows exactly what he is doing. He is just the most recent in a long line of socialist starting with Woodrow Wilson dedicated to making The United States of America the leader of a socialist NWO. Obama like Wilson is a very talented lier breaking every promise made during their campaign. FDR came out of the same mold. Their handlers, backed by big money, corrupt power have caused the conditions which have brought about every war, finanical downturn, and hardship suffered by the American people to make us ripe to fall into the hands of their control.
Radegunda| 3.25.10 @ 11:44PM
Rob, unfortunately it isn't just one person. There are also the vile Marxists in Congress; it's shocking how many of them belong to the "Democratic Socialist" group. There are the shameless propagandists in the dominant media. The radical professors and public schoolteachers. The recent graduates of those institutions who think they know more than their parents. The government union leaches. The voters who believe the purpose of government is to take something from you and give it to them. The instant citizens that the Dems want to import, who believe the same thing. The voters who don't pay much attention to politics and cling to the belief that Democrats support "the little guy" and the Republicans are greedy racists--so they'll vote Dem even though they mostly agree with actual Republicans.
Petronius| 3.26.10 @ 12:59AM
This comment is made in hindsight. Having been one of "them", and having learned how despotic they truly are, I can only recount the goals of the left; the elimination of everything and everyone they hate.
creeper| 3.25.10 @ 8:13PM
Petronius, I suppose you figure those National Guard officers at Kent State handled it well.
zaphod| 3.25.10 @ 11:30PM
YOU lost in 2008 and you lost today. ha ha ha ha ha
Radegunda| 3.25.10 @ 11:46PM
Wow, brilliant argument! What mastery of facts! What subtlety of understanding!
You're a perfect example of leftard "thinking."
tailgunner13| 4.1.10 @ 10:14AM
Sucker.
Ret. Marine| 3.25.10 @ 7:25AM
I think a case could be made for a "civil lawsuit" for these "treasonist" whores. If only this would be possible. Seeing is the the Constitution does not make such provisions possible for these creatures of the darkness, civil disobiedence will just have to do.
I know I am just preaching to the choir, but really, has anyone (above 50 yr. old) ever seen or witnessed such blantent disregard for our liberties, the rule of law and the Constitution?
Folks, I am more anrgy these days than I ever have been while hunting those who would dare take my life on the battlefield. Something is going to give one of these days. I do pity the person who yank on this veterans chain, both barrels is puting it mildly.
Concervative Bob| 3.25.10 @ 9:32AM
Article V
Stuart (Austin, TX)| 3.25.10 @ 11:31AM
Got your back. Lock and load. Semper Fi, do or die. USMC 1/3.
whites suck| 3.25.10 @ 12:30PM
Die cracker nut! This is AMERICA, not Nazi Germany or Israel.
Mark MacInnis| 3.25.10 @ 12:55PM
Well, that's constructive. I can tell from your vituperative (get someone to look it up for you) and how you identify yourself that you, sir, are a walking hate crime. You should thank God that we are in America, where people like Stuart, whom you insult, have been willing to go put their lives on the line to preserve your constitutional right to insult them. Now, if you have nothing intelligent to add, please crawl back under your rock and let the adults have an intelligent discourse.
Cincinnatius| 3.25.10 @ 1:06PM
Hey whites suck: I am someone who travels the world...continually. Here's a news flash for you: Go to any country where whites aren't in charge and check out what SUCKS means. If you had to live there for a while, you would beg to return to a place where "sucking whites" implimented civilization and by extension, the rule of law. Not racist, just the fact. Grow up and join the parade to prosperity! Stop making excuses, stop accepting handouts from those who look down on you, and admit that you are the one best qualified to determine your fate. We are tired of being blamed for your stupidity and laziness.
Elizabeth| 3.25.10 @ 3:31PM
Hey 'whites suck'...you get that Barack is as white as he is black, right? I'm with Mark..."You should thank God that we are in America, where people like Stuart, whom you insult, have been willing to go put their lives on the line to preserve your constitutional right to insult them"
Petronius| 3.26.10 @ 1:39AM
If w s and his get their wish and kill all of us "whites"
there will be nobody to tax to support him and his illegitimate kids; (not that he has or admits to having any, but his contempt for our civilization and traditional social convention is his reason d'etre.)
tailgunner| 3.25.10 @ 6:59PM
You're damn right this is America. We're not impotent like the poor saps in the UK, France or Canada against a rogue President and a renegade Congress.
Our Constitution gives us the authority to do what we must to throw off this socialist tyranny.
Notice I was able to make my point without racist attacks. Maybe someday you'll learn to do the same.
zaphod| 3.25.10 @ 11:33PM
another texan wingnut heard from. but we can't blame him too much because in texas they don't educate their children very well now do they?
Radegunda| 3.25.10 @ 11:50PM
So is that why the Texas economy is in vastly better shape than the states run by "smart" Dems?
Why is it that all you brilliant Dems can't come up with ideas that ACTUALLY WORK?
tailgunner13| 4.1.10 @ 10:16AM
Sucker.
Lawrence Boccardi| 3.25.10 @ 7:26AM
So, what do we do? Do we compromise our ideals, and support RINO's, or do we insist on only supporting conservatives, thereby splitting the vote? Do we rely on the national media to not cover a 20,000 body gathering in DC? What we need, is a loosely-knit organization to co-ordinated demonstrations on July 4th, in front of every main congressional district office. We old farts can handle that a lot better than an overnight trip to DC, and standing for hours. There are over 600,000 citizens in each district. If we can't inspire 1,000 to turn out, locally, maybe we should go off to the gulag, quietly!
Lullaby's, Legends and Lies| 3.25.10 @ 7:57AM
Lawrence: When November rolls around, if the only choice on the ballet in your District, is a RHINO or a Democrat, I don't think it'll take you long to make the "right" choice (the much lesser of two evils?). Life is never perfect, but the Liberals today, are as far from what the average American believes anymore, as to almost make you believe they're from another planet. Compromise if we must, when we don't have no choice, but when we do, we have to stick to our principles, and the Democrats today no longer represent any of them. Americans are from America, Democrats are from some douche-bag planet!! It's past time, to send them home!!
COnservative Bob| 3.25.10 @ 9:33AM
Article V
Bromo| 3.25.10 @ 12:59PM
If your ideal do not allow realistic compromise with members of the same political party (RINO's), then desire for action will just descend into anger and diminishing power.
The GOP needs to put the anger on the shelf, make the tent a BIG tent (like Reagan did) and be willing to compromise. Veiled threats (and not so veiled ones) will only scare people away from voting for the GOP. We are not violent, we are not dangerous, we may be upset, but we work with the system. We don't need a constitutional convention, we need VOTES.
We lost this one (though there still is the courts that may get rid of the mandate). Fury will not accomplish anything at this point except make us look like an angry mob (and those don't get votes). Threats will not help, and may strengthen the resolve of the other side.
I reject the call for "political revenge" - I'd prefer to whup them at the next election. Obama handed to us, let's grab it!
Quartermaster| 3.25.10 @ 7:08PM
Compromise would be fine if it went both directions, but it has not. The compromise we have see in the district of corruption has taken in one direction - down.
I would agree that in districts/states where a RINO is all we can get (and that really isn't many) then we take it, but we hold that idiot's feet to the fire and don't let up.
KeithK| 3.25.10 @ 2:44PM
What you do, is build an inclusive party, forget about the litmus tests, and take conservatives where ever you find them. I'm a gay conservative, who believes abortion should be safe, legal and rare. But above all, one who believes that government does best what it does LEAST. So I invite you to hold your nose if you must, but work with me and my ilk because you better believe we are the key to success in the bigger picture and tossing out the Liberals.
MikeBee| 3.25.10 @ 11:38PM
Lawrence,
Here's the plan, which we should implement over time:
Step One: do NOT vote for a Democrat, even for one who claims that he/she is conservative. Hold firm on this until there is FUNDAMENTAL change in that party, like kicking all the Socialists out.
Step Two: Where there is a spineless RINO who agrees with the Democrats' constitution-bashing ideals, try to replace him/her with a conservative.
Step Three: Find out which judges are up for election who are conservative, supported by the Republican party. Vote them in. Make your "judge" vote count.
Step Four: Use email. Communicate with your local Republicans and with your friends and coworkers about which politicians' and which judges' boxes to check. There is strength in numbers.
ncgma| 3.25.10 @ 7:43AM
The only way this legislation can be halted is by a GOP majority. Libertarians, conservatives, Tea Party activists, all those who like to denounce both political parties must now join together, work through the differences, combine our strengths and talents, and get committed to the next seven months.
Melvin | 3.25.10 @ 8:34AM
A grand coalition of the Republic.
Louis Jenkins| 3.25.10 @ 8:20AM
The Communists in congress are crying foul! (Calling them whores is putting it mildly Ret. Marine.) These creatures from the underworld cannot understand why there is a hint of violence in the after vote backlash that's occurring in the heartland. They cannot understand why bricks are being thrown, why there are e-mails and voice mails with violent undertones, and why coffins are being left in their yards. By their very actions they have written their fate. They are extremely fortunate that fire bombs aren't being thrown. How can they fein suprise? How can they be indignant when they ignored the will of the people? People are angry. When a person is elected to represent their constituents, and the elected absolutely refuse to do just that, retribution will follow. People who value their rights and their freedom will be heard, and since the Communists paid no attention to the public outcry what recourse is left?
Ronp123| 3.25.10 @ 9:15AM
do I smell the whiff of a "reichstag fire" here? hopefully these panty waisted congresspeople live in 2nd amendment states so that they will be able to defend themselves.
Louis Jenkins| 3.25.10 @ 12:16PM
Truth be known they're probably doing it to themselves, after all, they are students of Alinsky.
Who really started the Reichstag fire?
Greg Mann| 3.25.10 @ 8:38AM
"The Horror, the Horror. Exterminate the Brutes!" Joseph Conrad, anyone?
Denver| 3.25.10 @ 11:52AM
Love it!!! Welcome to the Heart of Darkness!
Ken (Old Texican)| 3.25.10 @ 8:41AM
Mr. Hillyer
I have not read the above comments yet.
Iwanted to copy paste your little gem first.
"".....Obamacare up our gullets from the nether end of our common polity. ""
I also wanted to go ahead and copy/paste it in my personal documents file.
Sir, that was about as close as I have seen to a 21st century "RE-declaration of Independence"
God bless you for your work.
Ken (Old Texican)| 3.25.10 @ 8:59AM
PS: Quin.
Team America just e-mailed and linked your column to Rush's private show prep file. Here's hoping!
HOLD IT!!! HOLD IT!!!BREAKING NEWS!!!
On the radio I just heard a news flash tht world wide Jihadist suicide rate has plummeted to nearly nothing!
Susan Boyle went on worldwide TV professing to be a virgin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
tailgunner13| 4.1.10 @ 10:18AM
I believe her.
Melvin| 3.25.10 @ 8:55AM
Good morning gentlemen,
At approx. 2400 hours, March 23, 2010 in the year of our Lord, you will begin educating and forming up your forces to begin the campaign to restore the Republic of these United States.
The United States has been invaded and a foreign force has taken control of our government.
This force is powerful, and has complete control of all branches of government, conventional and un-conventicle military forces.
It has yet to be determined in where our active military forces stand in this. Police and para-military forces as far as we know still observe their regular chain of command and will through all means available to them block our campaign.
This is a warning order, to prepare and marshal all assets and personnel to your individual staging areas.
Ladies and gentlemen good luck and God speed, after the November elections if we are not successful with phase one of our operation prepare to receive a five-paragraph order and move your forces to the forward assembly areas.
Mattled| 3.25.10 @ 8:55AM
Much like Reagan "inspired" Odingo to get into politics, The Done has inspired me.
I have never in my life been so engaged and I have joined two different boards that are dominated by liberals.
They don't speak for me and I will be heard. People/friends are encouraging me to run for a political office and I probably will.
And I have a Marxist to thank for that.
First he was The "One".
Then he proclaimed himself "The "Won".
I now proclaim thee "The Done".
I think it's ironic he had chosen Healthcare as his signature issue. It's HIS health that will bring him down. He's not well folks. It's coming.
Northern Rebel| 3.25.10 @ 9:00AM
Has everyone noted the crybabies complaining about "hate mail", and death threats?
It is a campaign to stifle criticism by saying that anyone who disagrees with the madministration, is a redneck Oklahoma city bombing militiaman, a commont tactic of totaletarian fascists.
Don't worry though, congressmen like Dingel, are trying to find ways to "control" us. Go to youtube, and listen to his recent comments.
Finally, I imagine one day of Rush's public E-Mail address, contains more vitriol, and death threats than all these treasonous anti-American politicians, combined!
Louis Jenkins| 3.25.10 @ 9:31AM
Dear Northern Rebel:
If you listened to Maha Rushie yesterday he stated that Congress had best get used to the threats. He receives them all the time.
Richard| 3.25.10 @ 11:29AM
If one wants to know the real thugs and fascists, consider the mob who drove Ann Coulter out of Ottawa the other night.
Warrior | 3.25.10 @ 1:14PM
What would happen if someone actually produced film outlining his assassination? A couple of years ago that was free speech.
Tim| 3.25.10 @ 9:12AM
Fight, resist yes. Revenge, no. Speaking from a purely personal perspective I would point out that revenge is wrong. This probably will sound obnoxious to many of you, but I have to say it.
This regime must be resisted and, God willing, defeated. Revenge however is a dark and sinful impulse and it is an injustice in it's own right.
John 16:33 (New International Version)
"I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."
Spike| 3.25.10 @ 10:54AM
Tim- Well said. Our hatred can overcome our hearts. While we can (and must) resist evil, we should take caution to not become evil.
WalkingHorse| 3.25.10 @ 11:32PM
Revenge has nothing to do with hatred. The malefactors must be calmly, coolly be made to be examples in recognition for what they have done to our children, our grandchildren, etc. Revenge is a dish best eaten cold.
The objective - pour encourager les autres. Let their fate be a warning to others motivated to act similarly.
Ronp123| 3.25.10 @ 9:12AM
Folk it is time for a general strike. time for the tea parties and regular folks to get in their cars, take buses, planes, etc. to go to washington to - shut it down. stay until there is a confrontation. worked for ghandi, worked for MLK. will work for us.
Scott| 3.25.10 @ 4:40PM
Most people have jobs to go to and mortgages to pay. They have time to go to sit-in.
John Navratil| 3.26.10 @ 11:21AM
OK. Let's just send the 10% who don't.
JeffT| 3.25.10 @ 9:17AM
And all of this is by design. This is the start of the "transformation" of America. He warned us. He told us what he was going to do. No surprise. But retribution should be swift, consistent and harsh.
Mondo | 3.25.10 @ 9:27AM
You are exactly right.
Comrade Boss Obama bent the truth curve down:
http://deathby1000papercuts.co.....urve-down/
Northern Rebel| 3.25.10 @ 9:33AM
I can see these socialists staging these confrontations, and vandalisms, like the so-called N-word, and spitting accusations that no one has been able to produce proof of existance.
Be careful protesters, and tea party members, and keep an eye on who is in the crowd with you. I'm sure they are going to plant subversives amongst you, in order to discredit your message, and make you all little Tim McVeigh's.
The are desperate Anti- American socialists bent on destroying the foundations of our constitution, at any cost.
BE VIGILANT, PATRIOTS!
Spike| 3.25.10 @ 10:55AM
EXACTLY!
Bromo| 3.25.10 @ 1:28PM
Recourse? VOTE! Volunteer for a Congressional campaign, work to bring out the vote and fire them!
JayDick| 3.25.10 @ 3:40PM
Have you recently read Article V of the U.S. Constitution? If not, check it out, especially the part about the constitutional convention.
davelnaf| 3.25.10 @ 9:39AM
Liberal politicians, pundits, and operatives alike take in stride the criticism that deceit was necessary in order to sell Obamacare. As they see it it’s all part of the job description: what they have to do in order to bring about the equivalent of God’s work on Earth.
We should take these people at face value and stop regarding them as merely big government crackheads. In time the question of whether or not they are deliberately destructive will be answered. For now anyone who values the truth and cares about this country should regard them as destructive and plan accordingly.
Cap'n Large| 3.25.10 @ 9:44AM
We must defeat these democrats in November! We should also remember to defeat every democrat in office for aiding and abetting the party of 'we know what's best for you'. Right down to your local dogcatcher! Vote the d's OUT! ALL OF THEM!!
Anthony| 3.25.10 @ 9:47AM
We are headed for an inevitable showdown with the Left. Note how Obama and his Alinsky drones in the MSM have managed to paint all opposition to Obama and the hard Left as racist, hateful and potentially violent. A classic Stalinist ploy.
The MSM have abandoned all pretense of objectivity; they have been actively engaged in propaganda to marginalize the Right and silence us by calling our protests "dangerous". We need no more evidence of this then the "alleged" comments aimed at Franks and Owens, that nobody else seemed to hear or capture on numerous cells phones, yet the MSM reported them as fact. Same with MSNBC & CNN constantly using Limbaugh as a straw man to paint all conservatives as hateful and violent. No wonder the Cartoon Network has more viewers then them combined.
Limbaugh was and is right, the 4 corners of deceit are controled by the Left. An inevitable clash for control of America is coming. Obama and the Left have nobody to blame but themselves. We will not go quietly into the night of soft or hard tyranny, no way no how!!
KY3 Democrat| 3.25.10 @ 9:59AM
Quin, are you for real? "cram Obamacare up our gullets from the nether end of our common polity. "
Sounds as if you are unhappy with an up-or-down vote in a democratic institution. Sounds as if you've exited the common polity.
Jeff Davis| 3.25.10 @ 10:28AM
We're onto you. We know you Democrats are a pack of crooks who want to rob us and enslave us. When you attack me and my family you're going to get the fight of your life.
Dagny Taggert| 3.25.10 @ 1:07PM
Hey K-Y democrat: "up-or-down vote?' How does having to buy the members' votes (with my money) fit in to your perspective?
Radegunda| 3.26.10 @ 12:09AM
You mean the up-or-down "discovery" of more and more new ballots in Minnesota until Frankenfraud got just enough to "win"?
And I guess you have no objections to congressional "leaders" bribing our representatives with our money, or with public offices, so they'll vote against the clear wishes of their constituents.
You probably cheered when Marjorie Margolies told Dems to go ahead, vote against their constituents, make them really angry, because as soon as the constituents vote them out they'll be rewarded with an even better job by the higher powers. Yeah, that's the way a representative republic should run, right? Representatives are SUPPOSED to work in the interests of the own power and wealth, to the detriment of the citizenry.
tailgunner13| 4.1.10 @ 10:22AM
An 'up-or-down vote' on an unconstitutional obscenity is not 'democratic'.
Every Nazi or Communist program of mass murder and imprisonment was also 'voted on'.
Sesara| 3.25.10 @ 10:13AM
Yeah, you "patriots" get ready for the coming storm.
Lol.
Melvin| 3.25.10 @ 10:13AM
Do you actually think for one moment that we are to believe that the Constitutional political charade that this Nation just went through was just a simple up or down vote?
As usual you underestimate those who have a more deep respect for the Constitution.
It is quite simple you see, the Constitution is a document that is not to be interpreted by Constitutional lawyers to reach a certain political end.
The founding fathers who drafted this document already did the interpreting for us, there is simply no need for any more interpretation, just adherence.
JimP| 3.25.10 @ 10:16AM
RIGHT ON, QUIN! AND AMEN.
COnservative Bob| 3.25.10 @ 10:18AM
I agree with Mr. Hillyer that we need to resist this unconstitutional legislation and these perpetrators of this vile process.
We should resist at every level and by every means.
I go a bit further and suggest that a vigorous criminal investigation should be conducted at all levels to see if any laws were broken and if so prosecution of all parties should follow where there is sufficient evidence to proceed.
There is enough anger in the population at large that I think we could successfully mount an Article V convention and amend the constitution to end these decades long over reaches by the central government of its intended authority.
They have used all manner of twisted interpretations of the commerce clause among others to extend the reach of the central government into every aspect of our lives. Amendments that clarify the original language and specifically limit the central government actions could be crafted to stop this legislation while simultaneously with the same language repairing past abuses.
Given the recent display by team O and his minions I think the population at large would in overwhelming numbers ratify language that limited explicitly the reach of the federal government.
JayDick| 3.25.10 @ 11:41AM
An Article V convention could have all kinds of fun results. How about these as a start:
1. Eliminate or drastically narrow commerce and "general welfare" clauses.
2. Provide for acts of congress to be repealed by a 2/3 vote of state legislatures.
3. Term limits on the House, the Senate, and the two combined.
4. Supreme court justices can be recalled for any specified reason by a 2/3 vote of the House and Senate or by the state legislatures.
5. Senators to be selected by any means chosen by the individual states.
6. Senators and Representatives can be recalled by any means chosen by the individual states.
There are probably hundreds of steps that could be considered to return power to the states and to the people, where it belongs.
Bromo| 3.25.10 @ 1:30PM
Sounds like you'd like to go back to the Articles of Confederation ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.....federation )
JayDick| 3.25.10 @ 3:45PM
Part way back for sure. Maybe not all the way. The central government would have to have strong power to provide for defense and the taxing authority to pay for it. Maybe a few other things, but nowhere near what they do now.
Conservative Bob| 3.25.10 @ 1:38PM
See how fun this self governance thing can be... just let your imagination run...
AND…. we are safe from the socialist progressives in that an article V requires that ratification take 3/4 of the states… hey don't have the numbers...
7. House districts shall be apportioned not more than one per 30,000 or less than one per 60,000 people.
8. House districts will conform to existing city, county, township and neighborhood boundaries, gerrymandering or drawing of district boundaries to achieve an electoral advantage for an individual, political party, or group is here after outlawed.
AZ Patriot| 3.25.10 @ 1:53PM
Hey Bob - what about limiting the right to vote to those who actually pay fed/state income taxes? That's one way to ensure accountability and responsibility and will help keep elections honest. If we ALL have to live with the costs, then we might be a bit more thoughtful of who we vote in as our representatives.
Conservative Bob| 3.25.10 @ 2:13PM
I am with you.. pay taxes or own property to be eligible to vote. ... it is too easy to spend someone elses money... to vote you have to have skin in the game so to speak...
JayDick| 3.25.10 @ 3:42PM
OK with me, but I'd let the states decide that too.
Pingback| 3.25.10 @ 10:24AM
Obama: Habitual Liar | Patriotic Dissent links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Lazy Jack | 3.25.10 @ 10:25AM
Obama, Pelosi, and Reid Draw a Noble Line in the Tan
Forget missile defense of our allies in Eastern Europe. Forget sanctions against a Persian Empire about to go nuclear. Forget Israel, we have done enough. Forget that our Constitution has now been re-defined per “Pirates of the Caribbean,” and is now more a guideline than a rule. And, Al-who?
I say rejoice, for we now know what the bow-around-the-world tour was leading up to. Our President has just drawn his heroic line in the tan with the exceptional healthcare legislation just in time for summer.
I for one am delighted at this new legislation. We have finally struck a blow for freedom from tanning. The 10% excise tax on indoor tanning services that will take effect July 1, 2010 is our equivalent of the landing on the beaches of Normandy and a huge blow against the enemies of freedom. Not only will this bill provide healthcare for every human in the fifty, but it will do it for free and strike a blow against vitamin D as well. And the anti-tanning regiment, as just about the first part of the bill to go into effect, will be the vanguard of this newly beloved legislative overwrite of our liberties. I cannot imagine a better way to get started. Nice going, Democrats. Keep up the good work. I think you forgot to protect us from another threat, though. Where is the excise tax on poodle and Chihuahua grooming? I get queasy just looking at those poor animals after they’ve been sheared, scented and bowed. Taxing that into oblivion would surely help my health.
Lazy Jack
http://thanksforthelaughs.word.....-thinking/
Ken (Old Texican)| 3.25.10 @ 11:35AM
Lazy Jack
That was delightful, ouch but biting.
Thanks
Searcher| 3.25.10 @ 10:38AM
LOL. This is a hoot! You know, I visit conservative websites from time to time, thinking I might find some rational discourse from the right, some new and different perspectives on issues that haven't occurred to me and I can think about. Well, that's sure not gonna happen here. My God, you guys must be soaked from all the spittle you're spraying, for crying out loud. Get back on your meds. Now. What you people know about America and our government is ... I dunno ... non-existent, because every one of you turns to talk radio or Fox or looney tunes like Hillyer here to find out what you're supposed to think. In truth, you wouldn't know a socialist if one stepped on your foot, and you have absolutely no clue what's actually in the healthcare bill. Not one. So come on, have an original thought sometime, will ya? Just once?
Shamus| 3.25.10 @ 11:05AM
Socialism is defined as government ownership of businesses. Currently the US government owns a number of financial firms as well as several car companies. This would indicate that the US is a socialist country and that by extension all Americans are socialists. Therefore, almost anyone that steps on your foot in the US (or more likely has their hand in your pocket) is at least by proxy a socialist.
Obama promised to turn the US into a European style socialist country and he is well on the way to doing that. Bringing health care under control of the government is obviously a big part of his agenda. There's nothing new or original about this kind of socialist agenda, and no reason to think it would provoke innovative discourse.
Ryan| 3.25.10 @ 11:34AM
Where is Hillyer wrong?
Nick| 3.25.10 @ 11:42AM
Searcher,
In case you hadn't noticed, you can reply to indiviuals here and refute their statements. Or, single them out for something outrageous they have written.
But you, instead, make a "drive-by post", and tar everyone here who is conservative with the same brush. You use propagandist tactics.
Try making an argument, I you are able.
Searcher| 3.25.10 @ 12:11PM
Nick, I've never heard the term "drive-by post", but I like it. Good one.
In my defense, I certainly don't tar everyone who is conservative with the same brush. Just those on this particular board, and let me tell you, it's really easy to do because they're all sputtering essentially the same thing. I mean, just scroll up and read some of this stuff! You couldn't make it up! Seriously, as I wrote in response to Anthony, I very much enjoy dialog with conservatives, most of whom are sincere, thoughtful people concerned about the direction of public policy in America. I seek it out and I understand. They have an argument that can be made. I certainly disagree, of course, because it's progressivism that will best serve our country by bringing about social and economic justice. But I understand. What I find hard to abide is the absolute demonization of the opposition from most of the people here, the artribution of darkness and evil to those who are trying their best to serve the American people. Not you, Nick. The others.
Jeff Davis| 3.25.10 @ 12:31PM
I suppose the Jews demonized the Nazis too.
Grzmlyk| 3.25.10 @ 12:43PM
"It's progresivism that will best serve our country by bringing about social and economic justice."
HILARIOUS. You claim we all spout the same crap and you come out with a hoary, shopworn, century-old chestnut like that??????? Ladies and gentlemen, I give you useless idiot #49,349,356.
But keep telling yourself you're an original thinker, unlike those of us on this site.
Yeah, we're all victims of group think. Unlike you.
And the Daily Kos/Huffington Post/NY Times/Washington Post/Chicago Trib/LA Times/PBS/ABC/NBC/CBS/MSNBC/CNN/BBCBill Maher/David Letterman/Jon Stewart/James Cameron/Sean Penn/Janine Garofalo/Alec Baldwin and on and on and on and on.
Nope. You're all original thinkers that just happen to move in unison like a herd of sheep.
You're not a cookie-cutter, generic, fungible tool of liberalism at all, whateveryourname is (cuz it don't matter).
Searcher| 3.25.10 @ 1:07PM
Jeez, Grzmlyk, you really get upset at the phrase "social and economic justice". Shopworn old chestnuts like the Declaration of Independence must absolutely drive you up the wall, huh?
Look, you're allowed to define your view of the best approach to government, and I'm allowed to do the same. The overarching difference between liberals and conservatives is -- and will probably continue to be -- the priority they set when weighing personal freedom and individual rights against social and economic justice for all of our society. Which makes us stronger as a nation? Which is the moral and ethical high road? You've clearly answered that for yourself, and so have I.
Dagny Taggert| 3.25.10 @ 1:16PM
Wow, searcher you're progressive. That's soo cool. The second difference is the conservatives figure in costs into the equation, and liberals want to create "social and economic justice" by waiving a wand--consequences (intended or not) be damned! Someone has to pay for your programs, and when you've squeezed all the juice from the producers in society, we're all worse off. Someone has to be the adult here searcher, and it sure isn't the idealogues in politics.
Grzmlyk| 3.25.10 @ 1:31PM
How is it that the only way you can achieve your "social and economic justice" is through tyranny and coercion? Why is it Obama had to lie at every step of the way for this to pass? Is if fair to force your version of fairness on other people?
I'm guessing you are very young and have never run anything but your mouth. And I'm also guessing that it's never occurred to you that the putative "social and economic justice" chimera before which you genuflect is a function of moral vanity alone.
History shows that socialism always fails. It produces nothing but misery and scarcity, because politically motivated bureaucracies cannot make better decisions, cannot allocate resources more efficiently than the marketplace, in which thousands of decisions by individuals impute a de facto natural order to that allocation.
And yet, despite the repeated failure of this utopian nonsense, colleges continue to crank out drones like you who attempt assuage their own human baseness by spouting idyllic pabulum poured into your ear by all of our once-venerated institutions: Pop culture, mainstream media, the majority of liberal arts courses; you are saturated in the molasses of hokum and think somehow it's your own unique brilliance that has, for the first time in history, elevated you to that rarefied, "evolved" point of view that lifts you so far above we the rabble.
History doesn't impinge one iota on your onanistic, doctrinaire utopian vision, does it?
No, you libs remind me of the vet who told the farmer to give his horse cyanide in order to cure its hoof infection; the farmer, puzzled, follows the vet's directions to the letter. He keeps going back to the vet saying the horse is getting sicker and the infection isn't cured. The vet keeps telling him to give the horse more cyanide. Eventually the farmer comes to tell the vet the horse is dead. The vet's response? "You didn't give him enough cyanide!"
By the way, a "chestnut" is a phrase or anecdote (or, in your case, a shibboleth) in currency whose overuse has rendered it tired and stale. A document such as the Declaration is NOT a phrase or an anecdote and therefore cannot be considered a chestnut. Particularly because no on your side is even remotely acquainted with it, so I imagine it would be brand-spanking new to you.
Let's just get to the nugget of what "social justice" is, ok? If person A forces person B to give his money to person C, and some of the benefits of that transaction redound to person A - money, power or self satisfaction - that makes Person A GOOD. Do I have that right?
Searcher| 3.25.10 @ 1:55PM
I'm not that young.
I'm 66 years old with a non-liberal arts post-graduate degree. I was a member of the U.S. Air Force for six years and served in Vietnam (in a support capacity, normally out of harm's way). I still own and run my own business. I've lived through a lot of history that you guys may or may not have read about or paid attention to. Korea. The civil rights movement. Vietnam. JFK's assassination. Watergate. Transformative events that changed us forever. My political views began being shaped a long time ago and I've been consistent. You think it "hokum", but social justice has meant something real to me for a few decades now, and you guys here sure aren't going to change that.
Oh, Your "nugget" of social justice? No, you don't have that right. A better version, in your case, would be "I've got mine. Screw you."
Grzmlyk| 3.25.10 @ 2:27PM
Well then, unfortunately, instead of being immature - a curable condition - you are an inveterate fool, and nobody can help you. Normally I'd have compassion, but you and your ilk have now successfully destroyed American Exceptionalism.
So "I've got mine, screw you" is the best "discourse" you can come up with after bemoaning the lack of any intellectual succor on this site?
Why am I not surprised? "Social Justice" is a vainglorious onion whose layers reveal NOTHING but self-reflecting, pseudo-intellectual smoke and mirrors. You won't defend it because you can't. You cannot point to one country in history that has thrived under socialism. It always devolves into scarcity, tyranny and corruption. You don’t stamp out greed, you simply wall it off and fertilize it.
I suppose I can be grateful that you haven't offered Castro or Chavez as examples of your precious heaven on earth. By all means, if you want to own a '56 Chevy, you can find a myriad on the streets of Havana.
And you really want to defend your take on evil capitalism as "I've Got Mine, screw you?" America, up until a couple of days ago mostly still a capitalist country, has historically been the most generous, most giving, most accepting country this planet has ever seen. Look at the outpouring of generosity that Katrina engendered - which outsripped the federal graft that was handed out in the name of "compassion" because Bush didn't sufficiently prostrate himself on the altar of White Guilt.
But people like you, who project your own human flaws onto the world, see it only as a font of evil that must be expunged, because only when you expunge that can you yourself be redeemed. Hence the onansim.
"I've got mine, screw you" runs roughshod over socialist utopias, in case you haven't noticed.
And your lifelong search to rise above the muck and mire of the irreducible condition that is being human is rather sad. Because the very seeds of liberalism sprout in the dirty soil of human frailty; it is nothing, nothing but hubris even as it seeks to escape hubris.
Your original jaunt over to this web site was nothing more than an attempt to preen. That is an act of egotism. Where does that fit into your altruistic acesticism? Gee, where’s the social justice in stepping on people who are lesser beings than yourself in order to inflate your ego? Like all liberals, you are a phony who dares not live in the world he has created.
Searcher| 3.25.10 @ 3:01PM
Skippy, I don't know what most of that even means. Do you seriously think social justice is tantamount to socialism? Castro? '57 Chevys? Huh?
Look, I'm not demonizing capitalism, and I don't know where that came from. I've done very, very well by it, and it by me. Why don't you understand that social justice can exist quite well in a capitalist society -- all it requires is adherence to the concept that all men are created equal. It doesn't require that everyone be successful. It doesn't require that wealth be distributed equally. It requires only that the starting line for everyone is at the same place and the course they have to run is no more or less level than anyone else's. In other words, we should be able to succeed or fail based only on our ability, how smart we are and how hard we're willing to work. That's not how it is, sadly.
By the way, speaking of (former) socialists, if you'd like to explore the myth of "American Exceptionalism" (a jingoistic concept if there ever was one), I strongly suggest Seymour Lipset's book on the subject, subtitled "A Double Edged Sword".
By the way again. Why is the word "ilk" used only perjoratively, always when describing someone you disagree with? You and your ilk?
Grzmlyk| 3.25.10 @ 3:21PM
Well, pappy, I don't know about "ilk."
American Exceptionism does exist. In case you haven't noticed, it's the only country people flock TO, and has been since its inception. That's because people tend to flee tyranny. Even Canadians are crossing the border to flee the tyranny of single-payer health care.
It's not because we're better people. It's because of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. It's because we haven't been shoehorned into a sclerotic class system. It's where the phrase "upward mobility" was born. It's where a Korean immigrant with nothing can come to America, apply himself and rise to be chief engineer at Ford in a single generation. No other country in the world has afforded its people such prosperity, such freedom. THAT is American Exceptionalism.
There is nothing "jingoistic" about 1) acknowledging the existence of a system that works better than any other; or 2) taking pride in that fact.
And if all you mean by "social justice" is that all men are created equal, hey, that's already in our founding documents.
But methinks you are backpeddling. Otherwise, why the earlier screeds against conservatives? "Social Justice" is a euphemism for socialism. And your use of the word "progressivism" - you have revealed youself, and you can't slip out of it now. That's why I think you are talking about socialism. And that's why you're so happy with Obamacare.
You just refuse to understand that just because all men are created equal doesn't mean they should have equal outcomes; yet, like all liberals, you don't mean YOU - no, your good intentions ought to put you in good stead. It's us evil, unwashed ones who should pay for your narcissitic joyride.
And yes, everything has its downside. Sure, America has many things of which it cannot be proud - I would be remiss, however, if I didn't point out that a great number of our more shameful moments have come at the hands of progressives. Need I go into the JKF/LBJ matrix, which put you in the rice paddies?
And, by the way, if you were so eager for discourse, as you said earler, why did you not answer a single one of my questions? You can start with "why did Obama have to lie at every step to get Obamacare passed?"
And I'll make a bet with you: This will in fact be a disaster. Of course you won't blame it on Obama and liberalism; no doubt it'll be the EVIL insurance companies' fault. Which will be quite a trick because they'll cease to exist within 5 years of Obamacare's implementation.
Searcher| 3.25.10 @ 3:53PM
With all respect, I think you're not using the phrase American Exceptionalism -- capital A, capital E -- correctly (or at least as I am). It doesn't mean American uniqueness, American superiority, or those qualities that set America and her system apart from all other countries It's a construct that's closer to the doctrine of Manifest Destiny, I think, and it becomes unseemly at best and dangerous at worst when nations assert an inherent superiority over others. But that's another discussion.
Progressive I am, and I'm not backpeddling in the least; my "screed" (another perjorative term, no?) wasn't even remotely "against conservatives". I'll repeat once more, I don't equate social justice with socialism, and I said quite clearly in my post that all outcomes will or should be equal.
Let me end by emphasizing I was never in the rice paddies and I'm normally quick to say that when the topic comes up. Those guys walked the walk and experienced things I can't imagine.
Searcher| 3.25.10 @ 3:55PM
I left out a "not", and I don't think it was Freudian. NOT all outcomes will or should be equal.
Grzmlyk| 3.25.10 @ 4:11PM
Very quickly, cuz i gotta run:
As far as I know, the term American Exceptionalism is as I said, and it's not that different from your terminology - yes, the system itself is/was inherently superior - that's just calling a spade a spade. That's why we became a world power - yes, along with natural resources, a fortunate geography and even manifest destiny. But you can't go back and judge people's sensibilities in the 18th and 19th centuries by today's technology-infused, far more egalitarian, advanced societies.
After all, some day people will look back at global warming acolytes and judge them as malevolent crackpots, remember.
Look, you don't seem nearly as unreasonable as you intitially did. But if you think things like affirmative action - imposing "fairness" by fiat - is a way of achieving social justice, you are mistaken. Look at the harm busing did in the 70s in Boston and elsewhere. I know somebody who endured that - it was an emotionally searing, destructive debacle - in the pursuit of bureaucrats' wet dreams about equality.
Political solutions to social problems never really work. The great society destroyed the black family. Our great push to "energy independence" has yielded the monstrosity of ethanol (and driven up corn prices to third world countries, not to mention gumming up every internal combustion engine into which it is poured) and the chimera of "renewable" resources. Go to altamont pass in California and tell me that wind power is not a Quixotic dream. No, that's a polticial solution to a complex problem that assuages shallow people's concept of "saving the planet."
Let me ask you this: If a person dutifully recycles his newspapers for 25 years, and dies satisfied that at least he was a good shepherd of the environment, and it comes to light the day after he dies that all of his recycling was actually dumped into a landfill in West Virginia, is he still GOOD? did he still help the planet?
I don't like it when people are the victims of unfairness either, but that's life; I have been the victim of unfairness myself, and I am not by any means wealthy - much closer to the poverty line than the $200,000 magic number in Obama's "kill the rich" regime.
Life is inherently unfair and none of us can even comprehend the horrors that happen in places like Africa. But we pick and choose our boutique causes becaus it makes us feel better about ourselves - maybe you've earned more money than you think you're worth (the typical hollywood problem). Whatever the issue, the desire to force other people to conform to your standards of "good" is NOT good.
Lullaby's, Legends and Lies| 3.25.10 @ 5:08PM
Grzmlyk, you ROCK!! I don't know why AmSpec doesn't hire you to be one of their writers. I never miss reading your posts. And with today's exchange? You destroyed Old Searcher!!
I loved his one line though, "Skippy, I don't know what most of that even means."? You want some advice Son of Skippy (Searcher)? Don't bring a knife to a gun fight, and don't bring puny words, when you're in a verbal skirmish with a magisterial wordsmith like Skippy (Grzmlyk), you're going to lose, and you did lose Searcher.
Now go home, and go to bed, and dream of that Liberal Utopia that you and your "ilk" want us all to swallow, because only in your dreams, will it ever become a reality. And you served in the Army? In Vietnam? Hmm!! Well, thank you for "just" those six years of service to your Country, but you have lost your way since then.
Searcher| 3.25.10 @ 5:24PM
I think you're wrong about American Exceptionalism, but as I said, that's for another time.
Not all liberals think affirmative action is a solution. I'm against it in most instances. I live in Boston and lived through busing. It nearly ripped us apart and there are still wounds that haven't healed. I used to support ethanol, but I was wrong, and now I don't. Wind power can augment our energy supply, not become it. Solar more so. Being a good shepherd of the environment is not a concept of shallow people. Necessarily. The person who recycled his newspapers thought he was doing the right thing, doing what he could. I like people who do what they can, so yes, I think he was good. God doesn't require us to be successful, only that we make the effort.
As for the great society destroying the black family, I've heard that before from equally thoughtful conservatives whose opinions I otherwise respect. They tell me the legacy of Lyndon Johnson and the war on poverty is welfare dependency (a false construct) among the urban poor (their euphemism) and that AFDC is the main cause for single young black women getting pregnant (it isn't). Of course it's undeniable there's been a breakdown in much of black urban society and their values, the rise in the numbers of fatherless families, and so forth. Moynihan was right. Drugs. Violent crime. Illiteracy. Poor health. Unemployment. Hopelessness. Despair. Rage. I submit none of this is the offspring of the Great Society's social programs. Rather -- in my view -- it's the inevitable result of long-held institutional and systemic racism that impedes social and economic equality. I'm sorry, because I know that view is anathema to you, like fingernails on a blackboard.
Finally, yes, unfairness is part of life and likely always will be. But I don't think it should be institutionalized and sanctioned in either society or government, and where it is, it should be corrected. By law, if necessary.
Okay, my wife will be home from work shortly and I hafta get supper started. She commutes while I run my business from an office at home, which in her opinion means I'm not really "at work", you know?
GreyLion| 3.26.10 @ 9:46PM
Searcher,
You live in Boston? - that explains it.
scott| 3.25.10 @ 9:04PM
So, Searcher, since you believe in social and economic justice and you own your own business, tell us that you don't make more than the people at the front desk that answer the phone or clean the toilets. You do "share the wealth" don't you? Everyone's slice of pie in your utopia is exactly the same size? No? Of course not. Because everyone who is for "social and economic justice" is for it just as long as someone else's money is funding it. Take a look in the mirror, slick. I don't think there's much risk in my saying that "I've got mine. Screw you." would be looking back.
Searcher| 3.25.10 @ 10:22PM
Scott, I really wish I did, but sadly, I don't have people who answer my phone or clean my toilet. (Okay, truth be told, I do have someone that comes in and cleans my house, but that's just one day every other week.) I think I've made it pretty clear in this forum that I don't favor equal distribution of our wealth and I don't personally know anyone who does, though that's the knee-jerk, ad hominem accusations from the right about American liberals. But share the wealth? Well, my new friend, you have no way of knowing this, but I'm reasonably certain that my wife and I contribute, by far, a greater percentage of our income to social service organizations that address those things we consider important than you.
axe_wielding_maniac| 4.28.10 @ 1:37AM
searcher:
The problem, without the wordplay and accusation, is simply this:
You choose to give away more of your income to "social service organizations," than others. That's fine, you do as you see fit, because that is your right to do so; i.e. benefit from the fruits of your labor. So be it. If that fits into your definition of social responsibility, even better for you; go right ahead. Nobody has the right to predicate their beliefs on me or my family, nor does any group have the right to force charity on my part to any group whom I deem unfit. The Robin Hood syndrome of the Federal Government has been ongoing for numerous decades, and should be halted.
The people have been lied to, pandered to, and otherwise treated as an ineffectual fool in order to pass an agenda that, like it or not, is a monstrous step toward dyed-in-the-wool socialism. Oh yes, the definition of socialism is a governmental and economic ideology that requires a select body politic to define the needs of its citizens and by means of bureaucratic procedure defining what is the moral and lawful status all citizens shall live by, as well as what is produced, by whom it is produced, and how it is distributed amongst the population.
Insofar as socialism being the order of the day that will produce "social and economic justice," for all citizens, I will recommend what has already been suggested: read a history book and investigate the fates of socialist nations: abuses of authority, poverty, and abject subjugation of the masses by the politically select. It is bad enough that big money is enough to win most of the time, don't help make a group of people with a narcissism complex have all the money AND give them the mandate to decide the fates of all citizens in the name of their twisted version of "social and economic," fairness. As stated above, life is unfair, and the refusal to ignore a certain concept is presumptuous and arrogant: the concept that all men are equal in their rights alone and not necessarily in their talents, abilities, and ultimate destiny is a farce.
You are right about one thing though, these are not really unique concepts. Everything that I've said has been expressed by Hobbes, Locke, Jefferson, Franklin.....Perhaps its time some of the liberal folks read something besides the Communist Manifesto?
JimE| 3.25.10 @ 11:49PM
66 and still running a business, you must a capitalist greed pig, why not be socially just and turn over your business to minority? You are a BS artist.
Frank | 3.25.10 @ 11:51AM
You don't come here looking for rational discourse you come here to hurl insults. Oh I forgot, to a liberal that is rational discourse...go back to the sandboxes at Puff Ho and Kos where you can rationally discourse with your 4 year-old intellectual equals
Searcher| 3.25.10 @ 12:21PM
The truth is, Frank, I came here looking for discourse, but found only blithering and spitting. So I responded accordingly. And I do look in on Huffington from time to time (Kos not so much), but I already know the liberal line, so I probably spend more time at the Weekly Standard or NRO.
Hey, wait! 4 year-old intellectual equals? Is that an insult??
Shamus| 3.25.10 @ 12:42PM
The big problem with setting up the courts to review the constitution is that they can be quite arbitrary about their decisions. For example, the Dred Scott decision was notorious for asserting people could be property in the United States.
This tends to bring into question any decision made on the basis of the constitution, as in a practical sense it's simply what nine people think on a given day.
The strongest criticism of the health bill in my mind is that it deals more with insurance coverage than with providing medical services that are high quality and reasonable cost. I suppose this could be handled with additional legislation, but this could be difficult given the current political divisions. Doctors and hospitals are the big drivers of medical inflation and there is little provision in the health bill for holding back their cost increases.
Louis Jenkins| 3.25.10 @ 12:40PM
US House of Representatives, John Dingell (D):
“Paul W. (Smith), we're not ready to be doing it, but let me remind you, this has been going on for years. We are bringing it to a halt. The harsh fact of the matter is when you're going to pass legislation that will cover 300 American people in different ways it takes a long time to do the necessary administrative steps that have to be taken to put the legislation together to control the people.”
Radegunda| 3.26.10 @ 12:18AM
The people who call themselves socialist and communist ought to know what a socialist is, and they think Barry is doing a fine job of pushing the country where they want it to go. Heck, Fidel Castro thinks the "health care reform" is great, and he knows a thing or two about socialism.
And what about the "Democrats" in Congress who belong to the "Democratic Socialist" caucus? Nah, they can't possibly have anything to do with socialism; they just thought the word sounded nice.
By the way, your post is completely lacking in actual substance, not to mention original thought. It's just schoolyard taunting.
I'll bet you thought it was really cool when little Barry told a crowd of cheering Ozombies, "Look the sun came up, there aren't any asteroids, so everything's groovy and those other guys were lying." Yes indeed, nothing too terribly bad happened in the first three days, so why worry?
That's your prez, who obviously appeals to a VERY stupid crowd.
Dan A| 3.25.10 @ 10:45AM
The sentiment expressed in this article, (and echoed in the comments,) is on a par I think with what is quite likely a majority of the American people. It comes as no surprise then that the cries of threats and violence are pouring out of Congress and the liberal media is playing the notion to the max. It is most likely a ruse to substantiate increased security to "protect" liberal members of Congress and an excuse for them to not hold public meetings.
It is also probably another underhanded trick to garner public sympathy, energize their radical base and demonize their opposition. In this case, they can hide but they cannot run from their actions and treachery in their coup d’état AKA healthcare reform. The people will withhold their anger however, and act through their vote in November. Should their voice be overruled again, I don't think their actions will remain so reserved.
PaulfromTexas| 3.25.10 @ 11:03AM
Simple solution folks....
Call your statehouse, demand a constitutioanl convention to consider repeal of the 16th amendment.
Cut their funds off , instead of your own nose!
JayDick| 3.25.10 @ 11:48AM
That would be a good start, but it is not sufficient. We need to really alter the structure to return power over domestic affairs to the states and to give them a bigger overall role. Obviously, some states would be good, some not so good. But the contrasts and competition would have enormous benefits.
Petronius| 3.26.10 @ 7:23PM
not necessary P from T
Just repeal all tax with-holding. When all the fleawits who never look at their gross to net when they cash their paychecks get real tax bills and have to pay the feds and their state what they have squandered in between...
Remember those famous words of the late Karl Malden; "what will you do?"
Noway Jose| 3.25.10 @ 11:07AM
Get over yourselves. Democrats won the presidency and both houses of Congress. Reconciliation was used properly to modestly modify the bill as passed by both houses of Congress. It is also a proportionate response to the unprecedented abuse of the filibuster by Senate Republicans. Where was all this righteous indignation when Bush and Cheney were flouting the Constitution, when the activist John Roberts abused his judicial powers to push his agenda, when the Republican Congress busted the budget with the tax cuts, Iraq war, Afghanistan war and Medicare expansion, none of which was paid for? You are not patriots. You and your birther hatemonger bretheren are completely anti-American and un-Christian.
Frank| 3.25.10 @ 12:01PM
Rewriting history won't help goofball - - it wasn't that long ago and - - all the measures you mentioned were heavily bipartisan. How someone who condones congress' balatant thwarting of the will of the people has the nads to question anyones patriotism takes a suppleness of imagination, or twisted logic, only only a liberal could possess. We can rest assured if in the end sanity prevails it will have nothing to do with you.
Anthony| 3.25.10 @ 11:10AM
Oh Searcher, not only do we conservatives have origional thoughts in our heads, we are capable of multi-tasking and connecting the dots at the same time. Hence, we easily recognize a socialist when we see one; we also recognize brain-dead zombies as well. And you sir, qualify as both.
Perhaps Obama will make you his new Speech Control tzar, modeled after the Canadian system that insures that conservative speech is deemed criminal, or haven't you heard? Or rather, do you care at all? I suspect you applaud this effort.
You claim to know what's in the health care bill, I suspect not, yet, being the arrogant elitist you think you are, you reflectively call us names. It was conservative media that actually read the health care bill and attempted to bring forth the numerous follies contained within, unlike the Leftist media, that simply spewed Obama's talking points, and like you, engaged in ad hominem attacks on those who were not in favor of socialist style medical care.
No matter, history has demonstrated that drones like you are the first casualties. Lenin called you all useful idiots. Funny, despite all history has taught us, there seems to be no end to the supply of useful idiots that still inhabit the world. Enjoy your blissful ignorance while you still can.
Searcher| 3.25.10 @ 11:49AM
I assure you, Anthony, that I'm neither a zombie nor brain-dead. Further, I have no wish to control speech and I don't approve of labeling some speech "hate speech" and making it illegal. Canadians hopefully have the good sense and foresight not to attend a speech by Ann Coulter, whose views are indeed hateful and wrong, but I'll defend her right to express them. (I assume that's what you were referring to ... if not, correct me.) Everyone should have the right to be wrong. Actually, I'm really puzzled as to what part of my post gave you any idea to the contrary.
As for ad hominem attacks, well, look to your own side of the political spectrum. I've engaged in a lot of serious debate over healthcare in America and the need for reform, with conservatives, those who "were not in favor", as you put it. I enjoy engaging with thoughtful, rational people. And I do have a reasonably well-formed perspective of what's actually in the current bill, and our country is going to be better off for it.
Unless you literally don't care that healthcare has historically been denied to a significant part of American citizens because of their economic status.
I do think, though, that some members of the conservative media -- and I differentiate those from mainstream conservatism -- are more guilty of irresponsibility with their lies and distortions that the so-called MSM (an artificial construct of conservatives if there ever was one). And as for "blissful ignorance", well ... I'll posit I'm as well-informed as you, marching lockstep as you are with all the others here to Rush's drumbeat.
Finally, you know, there are worse things to be than a socialist. Hell, 1% of the entire U.S. Senate is Socialist, with a capital S.
Nick| 3.25.10 @ 12:16PM
Searcher,
"[...] healthcare has historically been [DENIED] to a significant part of American citizens because of their economic status."
You need a remedial Enlish coarse.
To "deny" something, is to withhold it. Or to refuse it.
If you can't afford something, it is not being "denied" to you. You just don't have enough private property to trade for the good or service.
Please, use words properly in the future.
Nick| 3.25.10 @ 12:17PM
Oops! That should be: English coarse.
Searcher| 3.25.10 @ 12:31PM
You're mistaken, Nick, not that I want to play semantic games. And I'm pretty sure my command of English is equal to yours.
If you walk into a furniture store and ask for a dining room table, the store's owner will deny your request for that table unless you either have the money to pay for it or the credit to finance it.
He'll withhold the table form you. He'll refuse you.
In the same way, healthcare is withheld from some Americans because they don't have the fiscal ability to pay for it. "Denied healthcare" is a perfectly appropriate -- and apt -- phrase.
Shamus| 3.25.10 @ 1:03PM
Federal law says that you must be treated in the emergency room. You may be denied insurance but you're not denied care.
Searcher| 3.25.10 @ 1:15PM
Yes, you're right. But that misses the point, which is that many uninsured American families are just one illness away from destitution. Treatment in an emergency room is one thing, and but it's quite another for serious, continuing or chronic illnesses requiring long-term and specialized care and medicine.
Dagny Taggert| 3.25.10 @ 1:58PM
So how does the current bill lower the costs it claims to, oh enlightened searcher? If we were to have TRUE reform to actually lower costs, then the number of borderline destitutes you reference above would shrink.
I saw a great chart today in ISI's daily report that shows the pirvate % of medical spending (vs. government) has shrunk from 69% to 57% from 1988 to today. I requested an overlay of medical cost inflation over the same time, but I think we all know the general trend. So you feel pretty good about your knowledge of the healthcare bill? What do you think the govt's % will do under this bill? And what do you think that will do to medical costs?
You see searcher, this isn't "reform," this is an exponential increase in all that's wrong with healthcare--the govt. gaming the insurance market. Every damn mandate and competitively restrictive rule brought on by states' insurance commissions have killed the competition that keeps prices in check. The consumers of healthcare have no skin in the game, thus costs run rampant. Conservatives who are ticked off recognize these problematic aspects of the bill.
So how, searcher, does this legislation contain costs? And how will it remain viable after 10 years of taxes for 6 years of coverage (CBO garbage input numbers) are up? Someone's gotta pay for this, right searcher? Someone's gotta be the adult. Yeah, we conservatives are all a bunch of knuckle-dragging mouth breathers, because we worry about paying for this mess. How are the enlightened progressives planning on paying for it?
Quin| 3.29.10 @ 10:12AM
Dagny,
You do a wonderful imitation of the original Dagny, who remains the only fictional character in print I ever had a crush on. Your logic is impeccable. Thank you for your comments.
Shamus| 3.25.10 @ 3:57PM
I think the kind of systems that they have in Holland or Singapore would be the best solution. I would suggest a system where money is withheld from paychecks and deposited into a personal health savings account. Individuals could arrange for their own insurance using these funds, or a default arrangement could be made by the plan administrator if they failed to do this. This would be a better arrangement than fining people for failing to buy health insurance because it would make certain they had insurance. The current plan is not very effective because it lets people remain uninsured. I believe in the goal of providing people health care but I think the law that was just passed is a mixed up mess that will do a poor job of achieving that goal.
Radegunda| 3.26.10 @ 12:34AM
The point you are missing is that under the new regime, the government will be empowered to dictate whether you may or may not have the treatment at all--even if you have the means to pay for it. That's what the "health czar" is for--to be in charge if determining which procedures are "effective" and who gets them.
Maybe the effects won't be visible right away, but Obummer and many other Dems clearly want a system that's entirely government-controlled, and this legislation is their starting point. Why do you think Kucinich came on board after making a show of holding out for "single payer"?
They want the government to have power to ration out medical resources that will inevitably be more limited. If that's cool with you, just own up and say so.
Mark MacInnis| 3.25.10 @ 1:15PM
Your analogy of buying a dinner table is specious. If I want to buy a dinner table, and don't have enough resources to buy one, as a truly independent adult I would not expect my country to by one for me, nor would I condemn the community to which I belongs for insisting that I buy my own. You are looking at a bi-lateral transaction and assuming it as unilateral....you are making the mistake of presuming the furniture seller has an OBLIGATION to provide you with a table...he does not. He wants to sell a table for his own profit...key words OWN and PROFIT....so he can take that EARNED profit and do what he wishes with it. The American people have become convinced that just by existing, they have a 'right' to share in the material wealth of our country, earned by others. The only 'right' we have is the right to an environment where we can work as hard as the next man to make our OWN PROFIT and do as we wish with it, not what others think we should. You, sir, are by definition a socialist, because you seem to think you have the right to tell others what THEY should do with money THEY earn. Well, guess what? It isn't yours and you will never know the pride of standing on your own two feet and earning your way through life....you will always be among those, when push comes to shove, hoping that someone else will provide you with what you need.
Searcher| 3.25.10 @ 1:31PM
My intent was not to draw an analogy between medical care and a dining room table. If I did, you'd be right, that would be specious. Rather, I was merely making a semantic case defending my use of the phrase "denied care".
That being said, though, you go on to indicate you do think medical care is a commodity no different from furniture, and that healthcare providers are no different than any other retail vendors. That's not true, of course, and I respectfully suggest healthcare doesn't comprise "material wealth".
That aside, Mark, I'm not clear on where in my post you got the idea that I don't think a furniture retailer should be able to do what he wants with his profits. I'm not calling for redistribution of wealth here, and I'm certainly not telling anyone what they should do with their money. You're arguing against something I never said, thought or meant.
And actually, I've made my way on my own and by "standing on my own two feet" reasonably well. By anyone's standards
Shamus| 3.25.10 @ 4:08PM
I don't see how it would be possible to provide for universal health care without some redistribution of wealth. And I don't see anything wrong with that to a certain extent. If people really can't afford to pay for their own care, then I think society has some obligation to care for them. The question would be where to draw the line. The House drew the line at $88,000.00 in income for a family of four (which is twice the average income). I think giving people private accounts funded through deductions from their paychecks is the way to go because it ensures that everyone will have insurance but allows them to make decisions about what insurance to buy. The government could help people to get health insurance instead of punishing them with fines and IRS audits.
scott| 3.25.10 @ 9:30PM
Searcher, If Obama himself would be honest for 3 minutes, he would admit that Obamacare relies on the redistribution of wealth. You support Obamacare. Therefore, you support the redistribution of wealth.
Searcher| 3.25.10 @ 10:36PM
Scott, what are you, a college sophomore? You make it too easy. Like shooting fish in a goldfish bowl.
Shamus| 3.26.10 @ 3:51PM
You have no real answer to this point. If you truly are against redistribution of wealth then why do you resort to insults? You said you wanted to argue your point, but apparently you really don't.
How can you provide universal health care with no redistribution of wealth? I don't think this is possible. If you do, then please tell us how this is possible.
Troll Sniffer| 3.25.10 @ 5:56PM
Hey. This guy sure sounds an awful lot like Liberal Reader. Hmm.
Shamus| 3.26.10 @ 3:52PM
He's more of a brain damaged troll.
Nick| 3.25.10 @ 2:16PM
Searcher,
Are you Bubba "the pervert" Clinton?
I haven't seen a twisting of the English language this bad since, "It depends on what the meaning of "is" is."
By your tortured definition, anything I can't afford is being "denied" to me, right? I don't think even Marx went that far. But, maybe he did. "I'm Searcher, and I'm entitled to EVERYTHING in the world!"
Your hypothetical furniture store owner has every right to "deny" me a table, if I can't pay for it. If you disagree with that basic human right, you are for theft and fraud.
But, then again, you are a liberal, correct?
Searcher| 3.25.10 @ 2:31PM
Where did I write the store owner didn't have the right to deny you a table if you couldn't pay for it?? Or that a physician doesn't have the right to deny you care if you can't pay for it and don't have insurance? That's why I want everyone to be able to have health insurance, fercrissakes. Why do you guys insist on arguing points that were never made?
Nick| 3.25.10 @ 4:37PM
Searcher,
I see you ignored my rebuttal of your refutation. It was by IMPLICATION that you made this argument.
The way you are defining "denied", everything you can't afford is being "denied" to you, correct? By implication, you are claiming a right to it.
You can twist the language all you want, like Bubba the pervert.
I am not being DENIED a Corvette by the local Chevy dealership. I can't afford it.
"That's why I want everyone to be able to have health insurance [...]"(No need to almost blaspheme.)
I notice you didn't write, "That's why I want everyone to be able to AFFORD health insurance."
If you don't believe that medical care is a "right", then how is everyone supposed to "have" it?
The only way to do it, without stealing from the taxpayer, is to get government out of the medical care industry, totally.
Then the free market would be able to offer different levels of coverage, at different prices, to all.
Nick| 3.25.10 @ 8:50PM
Searcher,
Also, you used the word "literally" incorrectly in your original comment.
Searcher| 3.25.10 @ 10:47PM
Nick, as I'm pretty sure you're aware, it's quite common and accepted to use that word to intensify statements that are clearly metaphorical. I used the word advisedly.
That being said, I don't disagree with you that it's overused.
Nick| 3.25.10 @ 11:34PM
Searcher,
It is only "common" among those who have failed English. As a teacher or parent might say, "If everybody jumped off a bridge...."
I make no claim to have great grammar, obviously. English was my worst subject.
But, "literally" means the opposite of what you wrote. I think you have it confused with the word "figuratively", maybe.
I notice you didn't have any answers to my questions. Why is that?
Anthony| 3.25.10 @ 2:38PM
You continue to use sloppy and inaccurate terminology, either deliberately or ignorantly, when you conflate the words denial of health care and health coverage. Big difference between the two, which, by the way, the Ds also failed to distinguish, on purpose. By Democrats own admission, some 30 million people will still be unINSURED under this monstrous bill. Prior to this bill, some 8-10 million people did not have heath coverage. We did not need a government take over of 1/6 of the economy to remedy this situation. Contrary to your claim, heath CARE is not being routinely denied to a segment of our population, which under existing law is ILLEGAL. If it was, why then does this bill take 4 years for the remedial benefits to kick in? Where's the compassion in that?
The Ds were engaged in class warfare and used Insurance Companies as their scapegoats. You fell prey to this deception, because health care was never the issue, CONTROL was.
Obama said it in 2003, it will take time to get to a single -payer government controled system.
Bottom line; since the bill passed, I've noticed that many Ds, like you, now feel safe to come out from hiding and proclaim themselves to be socialists, hence, I understand why that appellation does not appall you. Thus, the real difference between you and the rest of us.
Searcher| 3.25.10 @ 3:25PM
I'm starting to feel sorry for having stumbled across this board and upset your little party. Anthony, you're wrong on just about everything you just wrote and have "fallen prey", as you put it, to deception upon deception from the right. The whole raison d'etre of health insurance companies now is to offer as little care as possible to as few people as possible, and to deny care to as many as they can. It's just the opposite of normal capitalism, in which profits increase by delivering more of your product or service. In the case of healthcare, the free market outcome has not been the moral one and the healthcare reform bill addresses that in a system-based solution that is both fair and still allows insurance companies to reap profits.
To conclude, I suggest there are many other real differences between me and "the rest of you". Whoever the hell that is.
Anthony| 3.25.10 @ 5:16PM
Medicare and medicaid have higher percentages of denial of health care than do private insurance companies.
I doubt you have a basic understanding "normal capitalism" since you are painfully ignorant of how government involvment and mandates have corrupted free market principles of competition. See Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. You all made the same absurd carnards about the oil companies.
But not to worry, you will soon see the benefits of your socialist medical care utopia. There's a reason Castro hailed Obama today; birds of a feather. Despite the lessons of history, there appears to be no shortage of useful idiots.
Searcher| 3.25.10 @ 5:45PM
Aw, jeez, that's not the point, and anyway, it's apples and oranges. Or footballs and hammers. Don't you think the vastly different patient populations for private insurers and Medicare has something to do with that?? And the fact isn't altered that private insurers' profits rise in proportion to denied claims and cessations of coverage.
Anthony, from one useful idiot to another, I'm missing your point about the oil companies and how they're like health insurers, but I assure you my understanding of "normal capitalism" is more than merely basic and, from what I've been reading, is at least the equal of yours. And my history is a lot better.
JimE| 3.25.10 @ 11:53PM
Ignore the searcher troll with his cut and paste trash lifted from KOS.
DatsunMark| 3.25.10 @ 11:13AM
Mr. Hillyer, I do deeply respect your comments and agree. But it is ourselves to blame. We tollerated McCain and other RINO's, we elected George Bush who had the likes of treasury secretary and pompass ass Henry Paulson, we allowed Denny Hastert to squander away our majority in petty deals, etc.
"The fault dear Brutus lies not in our stars but in ourselves if we are underlings." Shame on us all, but I'm not standing for this any longer.
Quin| 3.29.10 @ 10:15AM
For the record, I was not part of that "we." I started blasting Bush and Hastert and DeLay on domestic policy VERY early on, and I also blasted the tactics (not our presence, but our tactics) we used for too long, with too small a footprint, in Iraq.
Melvin| 3.25.10 @ 11:15AM
Go ahead junior just keep thinking that we are a bunch of inbred, illiterate, barefoot overall wearing hayseeds.
Oh, by the way you finished up your post with, "Un-Christian." That doesn't do well in leftist circles, with the whole secular issue with the President and all, you might want to leave that out next.
Just trying to help thats all, don't go getting your organic free trade boxers in a bunch.
Alex| 3.25.10 @ 11:18AM
Coiled like timber rattlers ready to strike are health care provisions buried in the 2009 stimulus bill. Explanations of these provision can be found in these 2 articles.
Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/.....zfDxfbwhzs
'Death panel' is not in the bill... it already exists
http://www.americanthinker.com....._bill.html
Snipped from the Bloomberg News article: "The stimulus bill does that, and calls it the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research (190-192). The goal, Daschle's book explained, is to slow the development and use of new medications and technologies because they are driving up costs. He praises Europeans for being more willing to accept "hopeless diagnoses" and "forgo experimental treatments," and he chastises Americans for expecting too much from the health-care system."
Mimi| 3.25.10 @ 11:18AM
QUIN: Your piece today is POWERFUL. It should be e-mailed to everyone in congress. You out did even yourself! The power of truth: God bless you Quin and God bless your work.
Bob Miller| 3.25.10 @ 11:22AM
The new Administration line, fortified by a media assault and the suspicious actions of agents provocateurs, is that those reacting against the health care measures are dangerously angry. It's important to note that Tea Party participants, the conservative rank and file, and their supporters in government, are reacting the right way, in accordance with our Constitution. It is the Administration itself that has trashed the Constitutional guarantees to our nation.
KY3 Democrat| 3.25.10 @ 11:23AM
Quin talks about "a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded as the regular military"...
JHC, Quin, where do you find this stuff? So we're going to have a civilian national security force that can deploy an army, a navy, an air force, launch satellites, fly drones with hellfire missiles, land Marines on beaches, and even bring in a few tactical nukes?
What is the name of the planet you're from, anyway?
Ken (Old Texican)| 3.25.10 @ 12:06PM
Well, KY-Jelly,
Quin quoted those words from Mr. Obama himself, duly recorded on radio and on youtube as I write.
Up yours, useful idiot.
Louis Jenkins| 3.25.10 @ 3:06PM
If nothing else, go to the second link posted here. On Youtube.
http://www.americanthinker.com.....secur.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s
KY3 Democrat| 3.25.10 @ 11:28AM
Quin bloviates: "The mandate to buy health insurance is an abomination. The very thought of a government forcing individuals to buy something the individuals don't want is anathema. It is abject tyranny. "
OK Quin, you got me there! Next time my state-mandated auto insurance policy comes due, I'll join a Teabag Party.
Nick| 3.25.10 @ 11:34AM
Your state "mandates" that you have auto insurance, even when you don't own a car?
I don't think so, brainiac!
Tim| 3.25.10 @ 11:34AM
Are you naturally obnoxious or did you have to go to college to get this annoying?
RobbyS| 3.25.10 @ 11:43AM
This is more like mandating that one own a car.
JayDick| 3.25.10 @ 11:56AM
What part of the 10th amendment don't you understand?
mondo | 3.25.10 @ 1:14PM
Don't forget to find out if your auto insurance covers your next likely run-in with a Cleveland Steamer!
One sexual slur deserves another...
COnservative Bob| 3.25.10 @ 1:50PM
States requires you to have LIABILITY insurance so that if you injury someone or their property they have a means of recovery.
No state requires you to insure your own car...
Al Terigo| 3.25.10 @ 2:24PM
I propose that any one who uses the term "tea bagger" or something similar be referred to as a "donkey puncher".
Tom in Michigan| 3.25.10 @ 10:13PM
You are a paid poster. Driving a car is a privilege not a right. Mandated auto insurance is related to a choice. Federal mandates Obamacare to purchase insurance are not a matter of privilege or choice. This lame Leftist talking point is like, SOOO played out. Federal mandate to buy insurance is a violation of the Commerce Clause, etc. and etc. Nobody buys your lame argument of privilege vs. mandate. Back to Mom's basement. Shift your mouse to your other hand.
Davis47| 3.25.10 @ 11:28AM
I think the healthcare bill is irresponsible and a terrible idea...but my god you folks are crazy. You're just as frightening and unAmerican in my eyes as the monstrosity signed by Obama on Tuesday. Do any of you realize how insane and irrational you sound.
Nick| 3.25.10 @ 11:44AM
Davis47,
See my above post to "Searcher."
RobbyS| 3.25.10 @ 11:45AM
You have a shameless serial liar in the White House and you want us to be civil?
Melvin| 3.25.10 @ 11:47AM
In response to the outright corruption, and the un-constitutionality of how this bill became law and you tell those who believe otherwise that they are, "Un-American."
Tim| 3.25.10 @ 11:50AM
The Big Lie is going down, and the sudden uptick in trollings here in the last couple of days is part and parcel. That includes Doofi like KY3 and the ones who deliberately post hateful crap in order to make the site look like a Klan rally.
Ken (Old Texican)| 3.25.10 @ 12:08PM
Davis,
Thank you for your "concern". heh .
KY3 Democrat| 3.25.10 @ 11:48AM
Quin opines: "[HCR] actually does far worse than mere rationing: It provides for death panels by proxy."
Well, Quin, a climate-denier friend of mine once told me how she knew global warming was a hoax: she just opened her window, looked out, and believed what her eyes told her. There happened to be snow on the ground at the time.
In that vein, I can now declare your HCR death-panel claim a hoax: I opened up my window this morning, looked out, and did not see any old people being chopped up in the street. I did not see anyone chasing grannies around with knives in my neighborhood.
Score one for HCR.
[By the way, I assumed my nickname, KY3 Democrat, as a statement of pride when we finally levered Ann Northrup out of Congress in 2006. Mitch is still trying to get her back in, but no luck yet.]
Tim| 3.25.10 @ 11:51AM
Is that it? I thought it meant you were into KY jelly.
Tom in Michigan| 3.25.10 @ 10:17PM
KYJelly Democrat, Here's Ezekiel Emanuel's "final solution" for "health care." Seniors, special needs patients and infants are slated to receive the least health care under this proposal. Read this and come back and tell us how this helps the most needy. You are a PAID poster:
http://www.thelancet.com/journ.....S0140-6736(09)60137-9/fulltext?_eventId=login
PS. You may need to log in but, like everything else your ilk wants; it's otherwise free.
Tom in Michigan| 3.25.10 @ 10:22PM
PS. It won't happen over night but, read this and tell me it's not a part of what's to come. Of course, you won't because you are PAID to write your posts. Everybody: read what Herr Doktor Ezekiel Emanuel, brother of Rahm Emanuel Obama's Chief of Staff proposed in "The Lancet" and tell me "rationing" and bureaucratic defintions of who receives "prioritsation" (sic - they can't spell but, they can make your heath care decisions) for future treatments under Obamacare.
http://www.thelancet.com/journ.....S0140-6736(09)60137-9/fulltext?_eventId=login
Jeff| 3.25.10 @ 11:52AM
When faced with tyranny in the 1700s patriots employed tar and feathers.
Oldefarte| 3.25.10 @ 11:59AM
Great thoughts, as usual! Me thinks that the congressman who shouted out, 'YOU LIE' at the State of the Union speech was no doubt correct and accurate. Again, American have no one to blame for this but THEMSELVES, since they either voted for him or ALLOWED their friends, relatives, co-workers,etc to do so. Politicians like McCain are to blame for not allowing his staff, Sarah Palin,etc to go after him TOOTH & NAIL [concerning his associates, his educational documents, his life history,etc]. Democrats bring knives and guns to the fight, while Republicans bring water pistols and pea-shooters. Republicans and conservatives are TOO NICE in their political arguments, and do not go for the jugular [to match Democrats' and liberals' agendas]. WAKE UP, AMERICA, WAKE UP!!!!!
5150| 3.25.10 @ 12:00PM
See what happens when affirmative action is done wrong?
Altar| 3.25.10 @ 12:01PM
The rhetoric I am finding here in this article and the vast majority of the comments reveals the monsterous nature of the political right wing. It is about as evil as the ultra left is silly... and I don't use the word "evil" lightly as I am inclined to associate evil only with works of fiction. But, here it is in real life, festering like maggots in rotting meat.
Whatever distaste I had for the incarnation of the HC bill that was just made the law of the land has become comparitively sweet in light of vile putridness I find here.
For you here who fit this discription, I lend you my pity, for it must suck to be you.
brinksmom| 3.25.10 @ 12:54PM
Altar-may the chains of Communism/Socialism/Marxism rest lightly upon you.
Old Soldiers | 3.26.10 @ 1:20PM
What is so monsterous to want to be left alone?
I want to live as a free man, earn a living, have a future for my kids. Pure evil indeed.
Bob Miller| 3.25.10 @ 12:12PM
Altar, I rather doubt you had any distaste for the bill or for the tactics used to push it through. Those "silly" leftists have their hand in your wallet, too, unless you're one of them.
Frank | 3.25.10 @ 12:13PM
Not my interpretation but a common definition:
fascism (usually uncountable; plural fascisms)
A political regime, having totalitarian aspirations, ideologically based on a relationship between business and the centralized government, business-and-government control of the market place, repression of criticism or opposition, a leader cult and exalting the state and/or religion above individual rights. Originally only applied (usually capitalized) to Benito Mussolini's Italy.
So let's see here:
1)totalitarian aspirations - - check
2)ideologically based on a relationship between business and the centralized government - - check
3)business-and-government control of the market place - - check
4)repression of criticism or opposition - - check
5)a leader cult and exalting the state and/or religion above individual rights - - check
WOW: this healthcare really is comprehensive!
Altar, Noway Jose, KY 3 better get fitted for those brownshirts you are supporting.
Ken (Old Texican)| 3.25.10 @ 12:15PM
Folks,
Alter above is still "concerned for us" heh.
Hey folks, PLEASE DO NOT BE PROVOKED!
These useful idiots are going to try to use our words to have this site shut down BY YOUR GOVERNMENT.
BE PRUDENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
T1Brit| 3.25.10 @ 12:21PM
Even written in the erudite language that it is,
this piece reads like a hysterical rant.
If the right wing in America continues to sound like this, they will be left for dead in the dust of history. The reality of what Obama is, is plain to all foreign observers. Your attempts to paint him as some kind of left wing demon are counterproductive.
You sound ridiculous.
Tim| 3.25.10 @ 3:04PM
T1Brit
Why aren't you speaking German? Because of Americans.
scott| 3.25.10 @ 9:53PM
T1Brit --
People from your neck of the woods shouldn't comment too loudly about being "left for dead in the dust of history." Your country resembles that remark.
Ken (Old Texican)| 3.25.10 @ 12:27PM
Folks, please see my replies to the useful idiots above.
Now,
back to serious thought.
Revenge is truly sweet.
I am looking forward to sending these communists, (pardon the shorthand), home from their congressional seats...in total disgrace.
I truly do hope that clean prosecuters across the country will indeed prosecute the tax cheats and criminal actions ...perhaps...among them.
Perhaps in their local communities, someone will buy a billboard with the verdicts of their trials. heh!
In the words of one of our truly bright conversationalists..........
STAND STRONG 'TILL FREEDOM DAWNS.
Joe| 3.25.10 @ 12:30PM
Dude, chill out! Do you realize what kind of nuts you're firing up? Are you ready to take responsibility for your words when someone actually takes them to the next step and acts on them? Now I'll admit I hated George W, but I never wished harm on him or any of his colleagues in the Republican party. I did not want people to hound them, follow them to their houses, cut their gas lines(or their brother's) or inflict human harm on them. But this is what you and every other right wing nut out there is encouraging the tea party crazies to do. You can be mad, but you cannot incite a mob to take violent action. Do you really hate your country that much that you wish harm on the leader of it?
scott| 3.25.10 @ 10:08PM
Joe, let's clarify something here. You really, really hated Bush, but you were thoroughly disgusted by people who made movies that depicted him being assassinated, right? Or you were OK with the movies, but you wouldn't have pulled the trigger in real life. Where exactly did you fit on the scale of left wing nuts who were walking around between 2000 and 2008?
You're the one that needs to chill. Please provide even one example where a member of a Tea Party has taken violent action against anyone, let alone Obama. The only ones inciting a mob mentality at Tea Party events are union goons, who guess what, support Obama and vice versa.
But thanks for playing and be sure to pick up your swell consolation prize on your way out of the studio.
Quin| 3.29.10 @ 10:30AM
You, sir, are no sir but a scoundrel. YOU, not I, are the one who suggested the above-mentioned means of response; I never did. Those things are illegal. I clearly said the responses I outline will be legal. I never suggested the formation of a "mob," nor incited a single bit of violence. To suggest otherwise is to indulge in your own sick fantasy projections of what you want to believe of conservatives so that you can excuse your own sick, inner rage. For the record, I will have none of it.
Oldefarte| 3.25.10 @ 12:33PM
Additional thoughts related to my above: Why does Boehner shake hands with Pilosi while standing next to the Israel PM, post healthcare vote? Why aren't Republicans, even though of minority status, walking out of the Senate/House and simply returning home [and refusing to even participate in the legislative process with Democrats]? Why hasn't Republicans brought up Obama on impeachment charges [possibly related to the Acorn issue or whatever; even if unsuccessful]? Republicans are still playing ball with Democrats in DC, and that's why they're just about as bad and need to be possibly defeated in november also [if an alternative true conservative candidate is available]!!!!!
mimi| 3.25.10 @ 2:14PM
To Olde Farte, Yea, he will be impeached/ or resign but only after November. By then it will be (by Jan 2011) 434 members of the repub. party in congress, and 1 dem.( Nan from San-Fran) may make it. That will get the ball rolling. Heck we got Specter/Sestak pay for play uproar to go thru and God knows there plenty more. The Senate, who knows? If we all get rollin maybe 75-25. they'll convict and send the " ONE" on his way....History will record these times and how citizens stepped up to defend Liberty and show NO compassion for those who thwarted the will of the American people. Folks: Just imagine , "NANCY" sitting there alone on the other side. " HOPE SPRINGS ETERNAL IN THE HUMAN BREAST.......... MAN HAS AND ALWAYS WILL BE.......BLEST"
Petronius| 3.26.10 @ 7:43PM
Impeachment charges cannot be brought unless, (and until) real Conservatives control the House Judiciary Committee. I doubt we will live to see the day that ever happens.
Bill Speers| 3.25.10 @ 12:34PM
One problem for lots of folks is that overcoming the Obama tide will require considerable actual grassroots work. Join your local Republican Party and work for conservative issues. If you don't like Republicans as they presently appear, be a force for reforming the party, as it appears to be the only one with a chance to gain power that is open to reform.
The other alternative is the old-fashioned American way: get a group together, go down to the halls of Congress, take the 219 Democrats from their seats, tar and feather them, and ride them out of town on a rail.
Radegunda| 3.26.10 @ 12:48AM
I don't like hard work. I've got the feathers.
Pingback| 3.25.10 @ 12:37PM
Twitter Trackbacks for The American Spectator : Why Revenge Is Necessary [spectator. links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Paul from SA| 3.25.10 @ 12:44PM
Great article. I am furious and am ready to act.
Pat| 3.25.10 @ 12:44PM
Oh good Lord, how old is this Quin Hilyer and when does he graduate 8th grade? "As long as they draw breath upon this good earth" - whew, no one can accuse this aging drama queen of being understated or emotionally reticent - but the heavy melodrama masks a few points we should consider. We have a Democratic majority in the House and Senate, Obama won and, by the way, he's also a Democrat. This didn't happen by accident, Americans voted Democrat with a vengeance last election.
They also understood while yanking the straight Democratic ticket that we have a representative democracy and that means all 300 million of us don't get to vote on every piece of legislation which comes up - they hired the Democrats to do it for us - or at least many Americans did. For those of us who didn't vote straight Obama, too bad, we agree to abide by the will of the majority -there's nothing we can do about it except scream like 10 year old girls - we're told we have the finest political system in the history of the world so we may as well stop grinding our teeth because our government extended its control over even more of our lives and a larger chunk of our wallet - we're toast and we need to get used to it.
The Republicans are already trying to figure out how they can profit from this legislation while loudly telling anyone who will listen they were against it from the start, it's a crime against humanity and if we vote for them next election they'll certainly take revenge on our behalf. Right, sure and there are those who will believe that but somehow Republican politicians will figure out a way to benefit both financially and politically from Obamacare.
Lastly, Hilyer's rhetoric belongs to an old time tent revivalist - can I get an Amen - or to a German politician whipping up the troops circa Berlin in the 1930's - but we'll get over it eventually and learn to love socialism - our older cousins, the Europeans, have been theere and done that.
JP| 3.25.10 @ 1:17PM
"Lastly, Hilyer's rhetoric belongs to an old time tent revivalist - can I get an Amen - or to a German politician whipping up the troops circa Berlin in the 1930's - but we'll get over it eventually and learn to love socialism - our older cousins, the Europeans, have been theere and done that."
And Guess what, Pat? Our European Cousins are in a death spiral. Greece is in default (BTW, about 45% of the Greeks work for thier government; they have retirement at 57, and of course universal health care); Italy, Spain, Iceland, Ireland, and Portugal are not far behind. All of the above mentioned nations enjoy lavish social welfare entitlements- esp universal health care. That leaves the Scandanavians, Germans, French, Swiss, Benelux and Austria to pull the weight. But these nation also are on a one way ticket to ruin. They are just a decade or so behind. The question remains how will these nations extend needed liquidity to those in or near default? Well, the obvious solution is for nations like Greece is to cede territory (of course this means most lucrative real estate like the Parthenon, and those resort islands) and soverignty to nations like Germany. This actually what is currently being negociated in Brussels
Bu there's more. The average fertility rate of native Europeans is about 1.5 children per female (this excludes Muslims). Within a decade, most of these nations will see as much as 40% of thier population retired. Socialism has bred a kind of juevenille attitude in Europe where the last 2 generations have refused to breed. And those nations with the most generous social insurance states (and closest to going under) average less than 1.2 children per female (Greece, Italy and Spain have a fertility rate of 1.1). It's not only, "Who's going to pay for it all?" but "Will there be anyone around in the future to turn off the lights?"
This is what conservatives are fighting off: bankruptcy, social strife (brought on by bankruptcy), and a socialism that destroys not only a nation's soul, but the soul of the individual. I hope you get the chance to visit our European cousins soon. If you wait too long, they will not be there. Karl Marx was only partly right when he said socialism was just a stage before communism. Socialism is the final stage of a terminal society.
Pat| 3.25.10 @ 2:05PM
JP, simply stating the obvious won't change reality - and after we've spoken our piece and thoroughly vented, what can we do about it? Giving a Conservative 50 votes for every voter who pulls the lever for a Democrat would work, but how likely is that to occur? You might also notice, as a nation, we're in a "death spiral" as well, but so far Conservatives are getting a butt whipping under Obama's reign.
The Democrats aren't in the least surprised there will be a reaction to their power play on health care, there will be a retrenchment but some form of National Health Care will remain after all the reforms are proposed, discussed and even enacted. We move a little closer to European style socialism, not always in a straight line, zigzag maybe, but it should be obvious to all by now that the will of the people isn't what controls our nation and, besides, there must be many people with considerable will who support this legislation, they prefer to get free services someone else must pay for, they're not Conservative and they aren't afraid of us.
Ken (Old Texican)| 3.25.10 @ 3:02PM
Pat,
Heh.
Wander on back to to mommie's basement. You might get a sun-burn.
We will take our country back to "personal-individual liberty".
Just grab some pop-corn from mommie...and learn.
Pat| 3.25.10 @ 3:57PM
Old Whatever: I see you waving your hand to get my attention after every one of my posts - I think it's down the hall, second door on the right. But if you need my advice, try taking your empty pork and beans cans out to the back 40, line the cans up on your log, knock em down with your .22, you'll feel much better and celebrate your manhood at the same time - I suspect that's about the extent of your rebellion despite all the George Patton utterances.
And let us know when you're taking our country back, I might have a dentist appointment that day and miss it - is it next week, the week after? Singing in the Greek Chorus of those who want to shout "hush up" to anyone who doesn't agree with the common wisdom as you see it is no great honor - believe me, everyone can do it. But the problem with ad hominem attacks is they stay on the web for all to see and underscore the lack of basic education within our nation.
If you've kept up with current events when not busy with your many pithy replies to other folks' ideas, you might have noticed the Democrats don't lose very often, Conservatives are effectively marginalized and you insisting otherwise simply ignores reality. As for your bold assertions on how we're going to "take our country back" let me leave you with a quote from that great American, George Armstrong Custer: "Keep shooting men, we're winning."
Ken (Old Texican)| 3.25.10 @ 5:26PM
Pat, hi back.
Young lady, that was a good one!
ILMAO
...Never been in a "killing fight" have you?
(Answer honestly, nerd, and if so...where?)
I have lived much of my adult life doing projects in the third world...trying to lift the people up. You, being a barstool liberal, can never believe that, and that is OK.
It is just the God's honest truth, nevertheless.
Sadly, if your types of stances prevail this November, then...........darn it.......I'm going to have to hang my butt out on the line...one more time...to allow you knotheads to literally ................live.
That's OK. Been there lots.
I might very well die, protecting a future for you.
Fine.
Please try not to forget my life layed down for you.
Oldefarte| 3.25.10 @ 4:00PM
Pat, The reasons WHY Americans voted for YA BOY were that they were fed up with the longetivity war that Bush initiated [just as with the Viet Nam War], after Powell rightly councelled him that IF YOU BREAK IT, YOU OWN IT; and also because the typical American is politically STUPID. In addition to the daily liberal brainwashing they received via their local newspapers and network TV, they did not sufficiently research THE CHOSEN ONE'S Chicago history, his associates, his educational documents, etc. In short, he TROJUN-HORSED himself into 1600, and America is now paying the price for same; but THAT WILL ALL CHANGE IN NOVEMBER OF 2010 AND 2012, fear not little boy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Petronius| 3.26.10 @ 8:15PM
Europe is finished and overrun by the moslem horde
WE Want OUR Country back!
Any elected official who gains that office by concealing his real intentions from the voters, which the Democrats have been masterfully doing for 3 generations, forfeits legitimacy to govern. Even when they discover after the fact of his intent to subjugate them, it matters not. Now
that this administration has telegraphed their intent to ruin our lives through all the vile calumnies they can invent, we have every right as stated in Our Declaration of Independence, to alter or Abolish that government. Go ahead and live on your knees Pat. I will die on my feet.
Tony in Central PA| 3.25.10 @ 12:46PM
On a completely practical level, it was a very bad idea to pass this HCR legislation without broad - based public support. What made this move particularly dangerous was the fact that, as a candidate, this President raised expectations about how he would do business in Washington, then broke evey one of his promises while seemingly thumbing his nose at the public and the Constitution. Historians will tell you this a guaranteed recipe for civil unrest.
While some are clearly rattled, many of the Dems still aren't " getting it ". Just as they dismissed Democratic defeats and Tea Parties respectively as anomalous events and the behavior of a small, lunatic fringe, they are looking for others to blame and reasons to minimize the depth of public dissatisfaction.
We have an Administration and Democratic leadership that seem more suited to operating under authoritarian conditions. The kind of questioning and confrontation they pursued and encouraged are now to be prohibited. They appear hostile to any criticism, and they seem to expect and obtain a lot of assistance from much of the media. I think things are only going to get uglier.
Radegunda| 3.26.10 @ 12:53AM
Exactly. They've essentially said that they'll just make up the rules as they need/want to. And little Barry laments the fact that he ever has to listen to anybody else at all; that he can't (always) just say, "Here's my idea. Now everybody do it." One reason why he had a very short Senate career is that he didn't like heaving to listen to others and make compromises.
brinksmom| 3.25.10 @ 12:50PM
As I told Shepherd Smith on Fox News when he was blathering on about lack of civility: "To Hell with civility-it is MY country at stake!" And I like Shep Smith and Fox News usually.
But why are conservatives supposed to sit down and shut up while we are called vile names by the Progressives? Not this conservative.!We are coming and we are coming after you commies!
Pete| 3.25.10 @ 12:52PM
"we may as well stop grinding our teeth because our government extended its control over even more of our lives and a larger chunk of our wallet - we're toast and we need to get used to it. "
"we'll get over it eventually and learn to love socialism - our older cousins, the Europeans, have been theere and done that. "
Sorry, I sort of liked being free. Think I'll try to keep it that way, thanks. Flights leave on the hour to anywhere in Europe you might wish to go. Bon voyage.
Samuel Adams| 3.25.10 @ 12:56PM
We are going to win this back in one simple way--politcal action. Do the following:
1) Find your local Republican party rep
2) Help organize
3) raise money
4) recruit candidates
5) if your congressman is a social democrat, call them each morning and pose a question--mine for today was "how is nationalization of student loan origination part of the health care issue"--answer "hamadah , hamadah, hamadah...." they will sound like idiots--then tweet or blog the answers you get....
5) blog/twitter etc relentlessly in your candidates favor--stick to the issues, not histronics--the
social democrats have handed us a gift in terms of framing a cogent policy debate. Most of their supporters when confronted with hard factual questions, have no answers....
It can work--where I live we broke the social democrat lock on the county goverment, raised a ton of money for Scott Brown early in his campaign. Now have a very viable candidate to run against our local entrenched social democrat member of congress...
But we stick to the facts of our case we win. Histronics we lose.
John Morris | 3.25.10 @ 1:01PM
Really great piece. I do have a small problem with it in that the claim that the individual mandate is an unusual abomination is not true.
We long ago went down this road to serfdom. What is Social Security if not the forced expropriation of the individual's private savings. When we said that was OK, really everything was.
As for the most practical means of immediate revenge it should be that every future bill attaches an amendment forcing Congress, The President and all their various staffs to eat their own cooking and never receive benefits or treatment different than what other Americans are forced into.
samuel adams| 3.25.10 @ 1:09PM
Don't worry tommorrows question is "Please explain to me why you (staffer) and the Congresswoman are exempt from the legislation you just voted for? Please state the particulars"
Then it goes to the blogs/twitter and campaign of her new opponent.....
Admittedly pick and spade work--but lots of hands will lighten the load
Bob Miller| 3.25.10 @ 1:01PM
Let me get this straight, maybe. To some of the Democratic persuasion, the fact that Obama won after after making campaign promises "X" entitles him to ram through legislation that is chock full of "not-X" or "anti-X". That is, his mandate is supposed to cover all the actions he pledged not to take but now wants to take.
Likewise, the fact that we elected a man who promised transparency, post-partisanship and all, is now supposed to give him the green light to conclude shady deals and run roughshod over all opponents (except of course, enemies of America).
John| 3.25.10 @ 1:08PM
Haha, cry babies. You lost! It's great imagine you sitting there with your faces red of anger.
Samuel Adams| 3.25.10 @ 1:14PM
Oh what you see here are the ones who need to vent. Were I you I'd be much more concerned about the ones coming out of the woodwork who simply want to know what they can do to help, how much the check should be for, can they host a fund raiser, make some calls etc. First came out during the Brown campaign. Took all of two hours to get a significant financial committments and support in one small community for a candidate willing to take on a long term liberal social democrat.
We are highly motivated individuals and happy warriors....
KY3 Democrat| 3.25.10 @ 1:22PM
Hey Sam,
You should ask the US Chamber of Commerce what they're ready to pay to repeal HCR: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.....hp?ref=fpb
Or you can ask Mr Grassley what *he* thinks of HCR: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.....?ref=fpblg
Samuel Adams| 3.25.10 @ 1:37PM
Oh dear, you must have slept through civics class...
There is zip chance of outright repeal. Suggest the Schoolhouse Rock piece on how bills become law.
Has to be picked apart piece by piece and real reform substituted. Going to be tough work.
Problem is that anyone with a lick of arithmetical literacy knows the numbers simply don't work.
What is most interesting here is the number of political novices emerging to offer money and help. The number of Independent Obama voters who bought the campaign lines, now having buyers remorse--and most heard line is versions of "I've got to do this so my kids are not stuck paying for this...."
Exercise of Second Amendment rights was always intended as the absolute last option--I do wish more of those that advocate that path studied the run up to the Revolution more carefully--they would see that the Colonists exhausted every other avenue they had first.
Again, we are going to win this. We're better than lies, bad accounting and parliamentary tricks....
Spock| 3.25.10 @ 9:07PM
Gee what a super intelligent comment, you must have taken writing tips from the Michael Moore school of debate. Most likely you are part of the dumbed down generation thus the nations problems at present.
CUOH| 3.25.10 @ 1:15PM
I guess you should look in the nirror.
liberty| 3.25.10 @ 1:21PM
I agree with you L.C. but I never been to Oklahoma. My Dad lived in Ok before I was born and he liked it there-lots of great fishing spots!! "Revenge is mine saith the Lord" The only revenge is voting all the bums out, but I like my congressman who actually respents the people of the 3rd district with his common sense conservative values. I have to wait until 2012 to vote the bums that need to be voted out.
Jack Davis| 3.25.10 @ 1:25PM
SUPERB piece, sir!
Hopefully, the upcoming elections (2010, 2012) and the legal action filed by 13 state attorneys general also will be instrumental in turning things around.
In the meantime, I commend you for a job well done!
Liberal Reader| 3.25.10 @ 1:26PM
Mr Hillyer,
I don't see the point of your hysterical tone. The Obama in whom you ask us to believe is "sinister" and may even be "Indonesian" (oh the horror!); he lies and schemes in the dark to impose an "abomination" (presumably an abomination of desecrations) on the people in an act of tyrrany.
Well, it seems to me you raise some fair objections to the content of this legislation and to "the process."
But your dark vision of the bill's larger meaning seems rather disproportionate and more than a little frothy.
This bill is a health insurance reform bill.
In order to use the system we have -- something Republicans and most Democrats support doing -- insurance companies required the mandate.
Without the mandate, the insurance companies could not fairly be asked not to drop or reject sick people.
And so long as there is a mandate, government subsidies are necessary, since it would indeed be tyrranous to force the poor or lower wage earners to buy something beyond their means.
Health insurance is not just another product on the market.
Federal law mandates that the sick or injured be treated in hospitals whether they can pay for treatment or not.
This law exists because as a people we have chosen NOT to live in a country where the poor die on the streets outside the hospitals from which they've been turned away. In a sense, then, we already have socialized medicine -- to some extent -- and I don't hear any Republicans clamoring for a change.
So if we've decided that everyone must be treated if they need treatment, and if we understand everyone as being vulnerable to sickness or injury, it follows we should be able to ask everyone to make some contribution to the system that would treat them if they needed treatment. It's only fair.
So go on with your clamorous prophecies that the Day of Doom has arrived. Go on pronouncing Obama the dark Stalinist overlord you believe him secretly to be. It's a free country. But you might consider the wisdom that bids you relax a little, and try to see things from the point of view of those you descry as the dark enemies of America. Isn't it remotely possible that half you fellow citizens are not enemies of America and that neither is Obama?
Voice of Reason| 3.25.10 @ 1:43PM
Liberal Reader, well said. Where was the tea party when Bush was pushing through his Medicare expansion?
As for their unfounded hatred of our nation's president, have any of them stopped to learn about him? Read one of his books? If they are set against his policies, fine, complain and disagree. But there is no basis to claim Obama, or any of the millions and millions of patriotic Americans that support him, is anti-American.
Republicans and Tea Partiers, cool off, regroup, and focus your energy on making the country better, instead of trying to tear it apart with hatred and divisiveness.
Petronius| 3.26.10 @ 8:30PM
Medicare Parts A & B are mandatory. Bush was a fool for having his congress enact Part D, but it is voluntary.
Obama is a Communist by his own admission. The primary founding principle of this nation is "economic liberty for every citizen in an ordered society. " (Thomas Jefferson)
I refuse to be Ruled by a despot who wants to reduce the United States of America to an anthill.
Peter| 3.25.10 @ 1:46PM
Liberal Reader, You are correct that the tone taken is unnecessary and over the top. However, it is certainly a reaction to the many falsehoods and scare mongering, back-room deal making and strong-arm tactics it took to get this legislation passed after more than a year of debate that still left a majority of Americans opposed to passing it in the form it was submitted.
The liberal rhetoric suggested, directly and indirectly, that conservatives simply don't care about anyone unless they are part of a particular class, as if they too don't have families and friends who have faced numerous difficulties and issues when it comes to health care.
The issue really is trying to address these issues without further taking the nation down the road of insolvency where it is most certainly headed. The liabilities for Medicare alone can't be covered even if we devoted every tax dollar we collected to supporting the system, even if we were to tax 100% of income. This is a fact both those on the left and right agree on. So while the cause of the Democrats may be noble and just the way they want to address these complicated issues will not lead to a soluiton and will instead almost certainly make a bad situation worse.
Liberal Reader| 3.25.10 @ 3:06PM
Peter --
And with you I agree. That is, I agree that there are serious problems with the Democrats' approach; I agree that in good faith men might have serious, spirited, and even angry criticisms of this bill; I agree that Republicans and conservatives -- unless indeed they have been living on the Dark Side of the Moon -- see that our current system is unsustainable; I agree too that the process was often unsavory.
There are, however, compelling rejoinders to each of these points, and once people start calling you the Bride of Frankenstein, it's hard to remember to make them, so busy are you defending your patriotism, etc.
But you make good points, and I know with more time and space you probably could have made more.
Curtis Rasmussen| 3.25.10 @ 7:50PM
http://spectator.org/blog/2010.....-macho-man
Lib Screeder, you are truly one of the most partisan pro-Obama propagandists on this site. You will go to any extent, including the concern troll bait and switch and racism, to convince people of your radical views for America.
You are clueless. Please get a well paying job so that you can feel the pain that high taxation brings to those responsible for themselves and their loved ones. Obamacare probably adds years to my working lifetime, making me a serf to the state, all so some slob lose like yourself can feel entitled. In the end, you make yourself more of a slave than I.
Whose balls are you going to have to lick to get that free coverage?
JimE| 3.25.10 @ 11:56PM
LB,
Still responding to your owns posts, what a loser.
JP| 3.25.10 @ 2:19PM
"But your dark vision of the bill's larger meaning seems rather disproportionate and more than a little frothy."
LR,
Pleeeze, spare us the spin. HRC goes well beyond inusrance reform, and fails to address every single structural problem the former system contained. Congress went well beyond the insruance reform you speak of. As a matter of fact, the "reform" will in short order destroy the health insurance industry, an industry which reaped a mere $13 billion profit as a whole last year (only half of the current Medicare fraud for FYI 2008).
The powers granted to the executive -namely HHS are immense; the upfront costs to Medicare are even larger ($500 billion reduction in service), and the premium caps set by Congress are 4-6 times what the average voter in this nation pays. This bill will not only nationalize the entire health industry ($2-5 trillion), but run up deficits of over $2 trillion (the ink on the bill isn't even dry and we're hearing a lot of backpedaling on what the costs will be).
And Quin is correct in his estimations of what pandora box this bill has opened up. Look to Europe, and you will see our future: 5 nations are either in default or near it; fertility rates that will lead to a halving of thier native population just when 10s of millions of Europeans are getting ready to retire; massive street protests from worker long used to 30 hour work weeks, 60 day vacations, and retirement at age 58. Bankruptcy, social chaos, and anarchy are the in our future if we persist. Hope you are around to see it.
BTW, HC now belongs to the Democrats. You own it. The insurance companies are now public utilities, and the medical workers will soon be on the federal payroll. From now on, every increase in price, long long waits to see a doctor, and every medical mistake will be yours. You guys broke it, now you own it.
Tony in Central PA| 3.25.10 @ 3:00PM
Liberal Reader, et al. This is a big piece of legislation and don't try to minimize its impact. We need health care reform, most conservatives and liberals understand we are on an unsustainable spending track. This had to be done right, and it wasn't.
Obama made a great many promises about how he would govern while campaigning and raised the expectations of the public by doing so. He has reneged spectacularly on most of those promises.
Possibliy the biggest spending bill in our nation's history was passed by the narrowest of margins along party lines against the desires of the majority of the public. That's reckless governance, not what this man promised. That's why people are angry. Get used to it.
Radegunda| 3.26.10 @ 1:09AM
It's a free country? It WAS. As of now, the federal government controls about half the economy, including student loans. Why should students be forced to go through government-controlled entities to get college loans?
The Obama crowd still aims to control virtually ever other industry and activity through their fraudulent carbon taxes. And communications media, on the pretext that they aren't "fair" (i.e., that conservatives actually have a voice in some media).
If Obama is not an enemy of America, why has he spent so much of his life around people who curse America and trample on flags and the like?
If you announced that you intended to "transform" your wife/husband/brother/child "fundamentally," would that person have reason to believe that you even slightly liked her/him? Obviously not.
We are just lining up the facts and seeing what the add up to. Why not try it sometime?
Peter| 3.25.10 @ 1:33PM
Republicans and conservatives generally would do well to remain calm and explain their positions carefully and repeatedly while offering solutions and explaining them clearly.
We could also do with more politicians on both sides of the aisle speaking to us like adults. What I mean is that everyone knows Medicare and Social Security are heading toward insolvency but when you ask any legislator what they are going to do about it they either shrug or mumble something incomprehensible. Let's be honest and admit that the only choices are to 1. raise taxes--VAT or income taxes; 2. Reduce benefits and raise retirement age eligibility, perhaps with means testing; or 3. gradually eliminate both programs and make everyone personally responsible for their retirement income and HC.
With these liabilities hanging over our heads it is self evident that this newest entitlement can't be sustained for long and that it is nothing but a cruel hoax on both taxpayers and those who believe they will be receiving subsidies that will buy them health insurance that means anything. Instead they will find that there are few doctors able and willing to accept them as patients and that their best option is likely to remain the emergency room.
An honest discussion would also be able to admit that our government has either lied to us or lacked the competence to develop and manage these entitlement programs in the first place. If a private company had offered them those who purchased them could sue and the company could be procecuted for criminal fraud.
Again, however, Republicans must avoid sounding shrill about these issues and lowering themselves to the same level as Democrats. If they can do so while refraining from arrogance and avoiding the same type of fiscal mistakes they made previously when in power, they could not only win in November but be able to extend their power and perhaps do the country some good.
Bbaptiste| 3.25.10 @ 1:33PM
Blah, blah, blah.
Obama won. You lost. Deal with it like a man! Stop the bitch-ass crying and whining.
Ken (Old Texican)| 3.25.10 @ 3:12PM
Bbaptist,
Hi. Welcome.
Even though you cannot even spell your name right.
We are dealing with it. You lost...Obama lost.
Please.................pray...until we go silent. Then hide.
jbh| 3.25.10 @ 4:14PM
Not crying just would like you to answer two simple question will some proof.
1. What hospital
2. Please name the doctor
Thanks
JBH
Pat| 3.25.10 @ 1:42PM
Pete, Pete, is that your best response - if you don't like it here leave for Europe - has it dawned on you yet that America is Europe now, what's the point in leaving?
You claim you like being free - when were you free, unless you're 150 years old look around you, we haven't been free in decades. And just what exactly are you personally going to do about it - hold your breath and stamp your little foot? You can express your disapproval by boldly writing your representatives in Congress or the White House but don't you think millions of Americans did that during the last year while the nation was debating Obamacare, they passed the bill anyway. And didn't Obama tell us exactly what he planned to do if elected, Americans went to the polls and voted for him in vast numbers - remember?
If you want to celebrate your manhood and act tough, blame your neighbors, they voted for Obama, convince your dog to defecate on their lawns, key their new Buick or toilet paper their trees - that's all you can do. In theory, the system worked as intended so hushing everyone who doesn't agree with you won't change a thing.
Ken (Old Texican)| 3.25.10 @ 3:15PM
Folks,
Pat above is trying to provoke you.
SHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Oldefarte| 3.25.10 @ 4:05PM
THE SYSTEM WILL ALSO WORK in November, Pat. Ya boy was a BAD EXPERIMENT by the American people, but like all mistakes, it is correctable and will become so in several months!!!!
Pete| 3.25.10 @ 4:38PM
Pat (man or woman?),
I can't quite tell where you are coming from, but I will say this: There is still a chance for the US, and while there is that chance, I will do what I can to keep this country free. We are on the path to Euro-socialism, and if we get all the way there, it will be a very sad day, and for the first time in my life, I will consider leaving the country and living elsewhere.
As for your statement that Obama told us exactly what he planned to do, that is simply false. He lied and lied and lied while campaigning as he continues to do to this day. Did you read the article above?
I suspect you don't really care and that you are a troll like so many others here today preening because you are either a government employee, a progressive freak, or related to a Democratic politician. If that is the case, live it up while you can.
Pat| 3.25.10 @ 5:49PM
Pete: Man or woman? Actually, I'm neither, we aliens from the star system you designate as S953 in the Caleb Nebula don't work for your government either - and while your species tends to call everyone who doesn't agree with you a "troll", our records show trolls are actually mythical creatures from fairy tales who live under the beds of little boys and girls.
You insist Obama "lied" "lied" "lied" while campaigning and despite your apparent affliction of occasional stuttering, Obama did address the need for universal Health Care during several of his speeches - was it the word "Health" or the word "Care" which confused you?
Ignoring reality to live in a fantasy world, gathering a consortium of like minded humans to echo the same sentiments and futilely shaking your fist at fate seems to occupy many of your waking hours. But we value you in any case and during our next round of abductions we will collect you, rest assured of that - no brain is too small for us to ignore.
Pete| 3.25.10 @ 6:24PM
Thanks for clearing up my confusion about what you are. The ole 'ends justify the means' argument is a classic. You know as well as I do that had your messiah kept any of his promises about transparency, bipartisanship, taxation, lobbying, etc...this bill would have died a miserable death. Enjoy your day in the sun.
Tim| 3.25.10 @ 1:55PM
You have to give Obama credit for one thing.
He is doing it to everyone with out even pretending to go to Sunday Service.
You know you are dealing with a real "Extremist" when the person doesn't even pretent to be main stream. That is why Stupak is a joke.
Hey say what you will about Bill Clinton but at least he knew that to be seen hand in hand walking with Hillary and holding the Good Book reassured the American People.
And Hillary lest we forget was a true Lefty....
So what does that make Obama? Hmmm
peter| 3.25.10 @ 2:01PM
Bromo, Well said. Too many Republicans want to spend their time venting instead of persuading with ideas and convincing a majority of Americans to support them.
It's obvious that Democrats have been unable to persuade the public with their ideas and have instead used the power bestowed upon them to enact major legislation that is but lightly supported for something so important.
Republicans risk not only doing the same thing if they gain power in November and forget to be humble and wise, but to fail in their effort in the first place by frightening people instead of influencing their thoughts and gaining their support through intelligent arguments and sound ideas.
Tom in Michigan| 3.25.10 @ 3:03PM
Nobody, neither anybody on this thread nor Quin himself can truly understand the monstrous philosophy underlying Obamacare until you've read this article by Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel (brother of Rahm Emanuel. Ryan and his comrades, unless he's paid to write here should read this as well. Can you read this and not come away feeling somehow soiled and "creeped out?" The article is entitled "Principles for allocation of scarce medical interventions" and, you can Google it if needs be. Here is the website (you may have to register but, it's otherwise free). Here is Obamacare from the Herr Doktor's own mouth:
http://www.thelancet.com/journ.....S0140-6736(09)60137-9/fulltext?_eventId=login
TennesseeVolunteer| 3.25.10 @ 3:27PM
Quin, your finest hour.
Stephanie| 3.25.10 @ 3:34PM
God damn obama.
Boatsailor| 3.25.10 @ 3:35PM
How quickly we forget.
Barak Obama is president because the Republican candidate for the US Senate seat from Illinois that Obama filled forced his wife to go to sex clubs. He was shamed out of the race and Obama stepped in, crushing Alan Keyes, the last-minute GOP pinch-hitter flown in from Maryland.
A stunningly pathetic GOP performance.
Don't blame Ailes and Axelrod. Republicans should stop the denial. GOP problems are mostly self-inflicted.
Old Soldier | 3.26.10 @ 1:22PM
I thought he got the boot for sleeping with 7 of 9? I can't fault him for that - other than the marriage thing.
Boatsailor| 3.25.10 @ 3:36PM
By the way -- has anyone actually read the text of the bill?
JayDick| 3.25.10 @ 4:08PM
Parts of it (I downloaded it), but it's tough and it is 2704 pages long. Also, it's a series of amendments to existing legislation and, without having the underlying legislation, it can be difficult to follow.
I used to read legislation regularly in my job. It is a skill that takes lots of practice and concentration. Moreover, it's a skill that decays quickly with nonuse.
Old Soldier| 3.26.10 @ 1:23PM
Some also. Lots of "the states shall..." then a list of goodies.
Katie Hussein Couric| 3.25.10 @ 3:39PM
The one good thing about the first dreadful year of the Obamanation Administration is that so many more people are waking up to the fact that the mainstream media is just an extention of the democratic party. Heck, I cringed when Baba Wawa called then-candidate Obama on The View "sexy." Yuck! On SO many levels! I'm also old enough to remember Sam Donaldson making a total ass of himself to Reagan, who always handled it with grace and dignity. Now the liberals have adolescent hissy fits when Bret Bier dares to ask Obama a real question. Obama and his lapdogs in the media are the biggest bunch of sissies I've ever seen.
Northern Rebel| 3.25.10 @ 3:47PM
Louis Jenkins:
You probably heard Stupak crying about threats and hate mail from the BABYKILLERS when he was making believe he had morals, from bytes heard on El Rushbo's show today.
Goes to showya...............................
dickcoolidge| 3.25.10 @ 7:38PM
Regarding Mr. Stupac - the gentleman trashed his former supporters (who gave him time and money) by finally capitulating and receiving a presidential executive order meaning nothing, nada, zip. If you, dear liberal, supported someone who did that would you not be very unhappy? Anyway Mr Stupak got his 30 pieces of silver. Read the Bible, liberals, if you dare and find out what happened to Judas. Can anyone, ever again, trust Mr Sutpak? I don't think so. Thanks for letting me vent.
dickcoolidge| 3.25.10 @ 7:38PM
Regarding Mr. Stupac - the gentleman trashed his former supporters (who gave him time and money) by finally capitulating and receiving a presidential executive order meaning nothing, nada, zip. If you, dear liberal, supported someone who did that would you not be very unhappy? Anyway Mr Stupak got his 30 pieces of silver. Read the Bible, liberals, if you dare and find out what happened to Judas. Can anyone, ever again, trust Mr Sutpak? I don't think so. Thanks for letting me vent.
casey| 3.25.10 @ 3:53PM
Wow, now I know where to find nuts for my Christmas fruitcake.
darcy| 3.25.10 @ 4:35PM
Ignore the lefty trolls the same way the democrats ignored the clear will of the people last Sunday.
Good work, Mr. Hillyer; that the left would send over so many of their verbal henchmen to assault you and us is proof indeed of the power of your forthright and accurate appraisal of the vile and dishonest words and deeds of the current occupant of the WH (henceforth, the COWH).
Casey| 3.25.10 @ 5:46PM
No, seriously. I just ventured onto this site after reading this wacko article on RealClearPolitics. There is a veritable fruitbasket of nutcases on here. I hope the FBI is monitoring this site to remain apprised of possible right wing terrorist activities. And I thought Fox News was bad. You guys should all get jobs because an idle mind is the Devil's playground.
Radegunda| 3.26.10 @ 1:21AM
I seriously doubt that you have much idea what's actually in the legislation or what people in the medical (or economic) field say it will do. You probably just believe every promise The One makes--such as, it will lower your family premiums by $2,500 and you can keep the policy you have and nobody making under $250,000 will pay a penny more in taxes.
Fox News is really bad? Yes, how dare anyone actually ask a Dem president a tough question; they should just drool all over him like the other networks! How dare a news organization fail to toe the knee-jerk "Dems good/ Republicans bad" line! A person can get really confused when it sees facts that aren't Dem-friendly!
Scott| 3.25.10 @ 4:36PM
Oh come on....regarding lawmakers not having to use the same system is patently false. Actually the bill requires Congress and congressional staff to opt-out of the Fed employee system and purchase through the exchanges. Then it talks about the same system as "300 million" Americans. WRONG. The exchanges are anticipated to have somewhere around 20 million people in them, not 300 million.
There are plenty of reasons to object to Obamacare without having to resort to dubious claims and flat out lies. Then you are no better than Obama's false claims as well.
JP| 3.25.10 @ 4:43PM
"Actually the bill requires Congress and congressional staff to opt-out of the Fed employee system and purchase through the exchanges."
Scott,
Please dispense with your nonsense. The Bill defines which positions of the Congressional staff are exempt. Check page 158 of the bill and you will see that about 99% of the positions that are employed by Congressmen are exempt.
Scott| 3.25.10 @ 5:43PM
Even if they were exempt, so what? They still would be buying from the FEd employee system, which is managed by OMB, an is essentially the same things as the exchanges in the bill.
My point is there is plenty to critique and criticize about the bill without resolving to dubious claims that only question the credibility of the critique.
Spinny| 3.25.10 @ 4:59PM
Lets just look at this healthcare bill dispassionately:
FIRST: Significant amounts of money are allocated within this bill for the training of 16,000 new IRS agents who will help to ENFORCE this legislation.
How much money is allocated in this bill to train new Doctors? ZERO
16,000 IRS Agents
ZERO Doctors
SECOND: ALL members of Congress, their Staff, the President and his minions are ALL EXEMPTED from this legislation.
ENOUGH SAID EXCEPT ONE MORE THING:
Let's get ready to RUMBLE!
Scott| 3.25.10 @ 5:46PM
Your second comment is partially incorrect on its face, and entirely incorrect as to its intent.
First, all those in Congress, including their senior staff, are actually forced to participate and buy through the exchanges.
Second, even those Fed employees that it does not impact, still get their health insurance throught the Federal Employee system....which is in effect the same exact thing as the exchanges. In fact, its the Fed employee system that the entire bill is based upon. OMB is even charged with regulatin the national non-profit plans the bill calls for.
Spinny| 3.25.10 @ 6:13PM
Scott,
Perhaps your technical observations are correct and that various staff members and other assorted Government drones will be stuck like the rest of us. HOWEVER, do you believe for one minute that your healthcare will be comparable in availability and/or quality to Members of Congress? If you do, I have a bridge here in NYC to sell you. They EXPLICITLY EXEMPTED THEMSELVES. To the extent that they included convoluted verbiage in the bill to give the IMPRESSION they they are "with us" on this NIGHTMARE legislation is no different than that "fig leaf" executive order Obama provided Stupak with respect to the use of Federal funds for abortion. That order wasn't worth the paper it was written (pay attention to abortion activity in the future - time will bear my view out out) and neither is this Health Care Bill.
Spinny| 3.25.10 @ 5:02PM
.....politically, that is!
Lets leave all the threats to the progressives who take their cue from the rule book of Saul Alinsky by planting "threats" and accusations of violence in the news media. Everybody is on to that ploy. Nice try!
Alecto| 3.25.10 @ 5:09PM
I look down the road and I see two paths: one leads to repeal, renunciation of the vile methods and substance of not just this, but 50 or more years of New Deal, Great Society and other affronts to liberty and the concept of the primacy of the individual over the State. The other leads to civil war. I am not joking.
darcy| 3.26.10 @ 1:33PM
Repudiation Day is coming.
http://www.judgedavidlynn.net/....._act_1.htm
Thom| 3.25.10 @ 5:12PM
Quin,
The first merit badge a Democrat must earn is the “Liar” badge. Most Democrats in Congress have several stars to go along with their “Liar” badge indicating the number of decades they’ve been successful liars. You say you want “revenge” but I want accountability and justice. Nothing is going to change as long as lying is politically profitable and immune from meaningful consequence.
The last Democrat President has a shirt full of stars to go along with several of his Democrat Merit badges, perjured himself under oath, lied on TV to tens of millions of Americans and got nothing more than a “memo” and loss of law license for his troubles. He and his “liar” wife are worth over a 100 million today. Where did the money come from? The current Democrat “liar” President has lied continuously except when he has revealed his true contempt for our founding principles and form of government. If he resigned tomorrow he would be worth several times what the liar Clintons are. See a pattern here?
Tom Dash Hound got booted out of a lowly Senators job and became a multiple millionaire lobbyist over night. He owed significantly more than I make in back taxes for an unreported “driver”. The bulk of Democrat “liars” in Congress that lose their day jobs will end up with very fat Federal government or lobbyist jobs making even more than they do today. Name me a single Democrat in Congress that isn’t an accomplished liar? Just one? Tell me where the accountability is in any of this? There isn’t any and while many get spun up around the axle over “labels” what I see is the same old con game that elites have always depended on to enrich themselves. Pick your “flavor” of “ism” and the fundamental difference between all of them is the number of Prince and Princesses they (openly) allow.
At the end of the day Quin, a Grasshopper/Ant society has been institutionalized into Federal and State law and the Grasshoppers are devouring both the Constitutional protections and our economic wealth at a rate that is unsustainable for the Ants. There is no middle ground left between the two sides. We’re sucking the reserve wealth out of the rest of the world with almost no prospect of paying that back and this is not going to stand either. Somebody is going to lose here.
If we continue to ignore the threat posed here and try to control the problem by just eliminating the Grasshoppers that encroach into our enclave we will lose. If we don’t attack and destroy the institutionalized Grasshopper generators we will lose. If we continue to play by set piece rules while the Grasshoppers make up the rules as the end result demands we will lose. If we continue to try to manage this, we will lose. If we continue to treat Democrats as misbehaving children we will lose. Everything I’ve said here has been tried over the last 8 decades and yet they still advance their agendas and we still continue to promise to double down and play a better “game” of politics than the liar Democrats. I promise you Quin if we continue to reward criminality in elected office with rich rewards and sanctioned lying there will be blood in the not too distance future. The political process has been both broken and corrupt since the mid 1930s and everyone with an ounce of common sense knows why but no one wants to tell the Emperor to get his ugly ass out of their face.
I have no faith in the political process rescuing us. It works off a set time and predictable schedule. Time is as much our enemy as the liar Democrats. The fiscal damage done between now and early 2013 is going to be considerable and irreversible for many. People my age are looking at a permanent loss in what is left of our productive years and wealth. Age will color one’s outlook on the situation which works against the young skulls full of mush that pass for an educated adult these days. They take nothing serious that doesn’t start with “free” or an “I” and fit into one or more bodily orifices. The coming winter will be truly hard on these freshly minted products of “university”.
So Quin, I understand the thrust of your points but I’ve dealt with roach infestations and understand that trying to deal with such things is a losing proposition if you focus on the individual roaches you can see and not where the hive is. General Savage was correct, “there are no winners in war, just bigger losers”. If conservatives continue to make nice while their liberties, property and wealth are stolen right in front of their eyes then it is already over but the bloodletting. As long as lying is acceptable behavior then those that support the liars are no better than the elected liars. It might help if more people called the liars that make up Congress liars to their face rather than looked upon this as just business as usual. One Representative down in South Carolina seemed to get this; a Supreme Court judge didn’t seem to want to offend the liar President of the United Socialist States lying through his teeth and that is very much a part of the problem here. Lies like sex sell pretty well these days and too many people are timid about speaking truth to liars. We are going to get a lot of blood if we don’t confront the liar Democrat Party head on.
RobertS| 3.25.10 @ 5:59PM
Gentlemen and Women,
Consider two points:
1) The individual mandate, which is causing so much high blood pressure on this site, is an idea originally conceived by the Republicans in response to Bill Clinton's HC proposal. It was espoused, until recently, by one John McCain.
2) The claim that the Democrats "ignored the will of the People" is just not true. The public option was removed after the the Tea Party crowd's public tantrums last year, and the individual mandate was substituted for the employer mandate.
This bill mainly leaves the insurance industry and health care delivery system intact. Most of the fury expressed here is way, way over the top.
Spinny| 3.25.10 @ 6:21PM
Robert,
Sen. McCain, while a fine patriot whose service to this country is deeply respected by all right thinking people, is a RINO. No Conservatives respect the political positions or conduct of Sen. Mc Cain.
Your second point is simple incorrect. If you read my retort to your effete little commentary (and I have a reasonable degree of experience in the business of the insurance industry), please remember it. In 4-5 years you will look back in anguish over your insouciance with respect to this legislation.
newcan| 3.25.10 @ 10:28PM
RobertS, please educate us with a link to legislative language McCain proposed whereby he wanted the government to compel individuals to buy a product. All I remember is that he wanted to remove the tax deduction for employer provided premiums and replace it with a credit. Can you show us where we can find his mandate? I'm not being sarcastic, I just don't know.
The Democrats clearly flew in the face of public opinion. Don't you think it odd that Republicans snatched Ted Kennedy's seat while his corpse was still drinking?
As for your comment re: the insurance industry, you just don't get economics, and the comments here are, if anything, more civil than they should be. You leftists have clearly underestimated public rage and overestimated your own numbers.
darcy| 3.26.10 @ 1:52PM
Most of the fury here, Tokyo Rose, aka RobertS, is entirely justified and if anything, understated, given the assault just perpetrated by the LIARS in D.C. against the American people.
Gullible, ignorant and morally bankrupt, or actively contemptuous of our Constitution = the people who support O's agenda, generally, and the demcare bill specifically.
RobertS| 3.25.10 @ 6:39PM
Spinny,
You are confusing me with a different Robert, as my most recent posting is my first.
My second point is not "simple incorrect." Both the removal of the public option and the insertion of the individual mandate were done in the fruitless effort to gain Republican votes for the bill. Liberals hated both of these steps.
It is bitterly ironic to now listen to Conservatives going on about a government takeover of health care, and an assault on individual freedoms, like Obama is some kind of tyrannical monster out to steal your freedoms. The Dems were trying to meet the Repubs in the middle.
If the individual mandate is so repugnant to conservatives, why not attack the Republicans, from whence it came?
Pete| 3.25.10 @ 7:01PM
What a crock. They didn't give a flying Biden what the R's thought, ever, in the process. From your point of view, the staged summit must have looked like a real bipartisan brainstorming session, eh? Their own infighting and public opinion kept them from passing that crap when they had 60 votes. They didn't need a single R vote. The middle, please. Peddle that stuff elsewhere.
Delfin J Beltran MD| 3.25.10 @ 6:44PM
It would appear that the actions of the current holder of the office of President instead of supporting the Constitution as was sworn on the day of inauguration, that person has followed the Cloward-PivenStratagy designed to destroy the Constitution and the Republic that was thus created. Is it not time to re-invoke the Declaration of Independence and charge those who have been involved by acting counter to their oath of office?
RobertS| 3.25.10 @ 7:29PM
Pete,
The bipartisan summit was staged political theater, for sure, but it was made necessary by an opposition party that, from the beginning of his administration, had vowed to oppose everything Obama did. "So, OK, fine, that's the way you want to play, let's put it on TV for the folks to watch."
I will not argue with you that the Dems are the most disorganized excuse of a political party that the world has ever seen. But they really did pass a middle of the road bill. They had the votes for a public option in both the House and the Senate, but leadership wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. This was in consideration to the large amount of objection that has been expressed about the alleged "government takeover of health care".
Rusty| 3.25.10 @ 9:05PM
The laughable assertion that this bill is "middle of the road" because it doesn't contain a public option is indeed a real side-splitter. The fact the Dems are too cowardly to be held accountable to their own statist solutions is true whether it was for the public option or this carefully tailored "time bomb" impostor.
Perhaps you'll have a better understanding of the power of free markets (and the competition they bring) sometime around mid-November. Of course, we must assume that our election system won't receive the same treatment as the Chrysler bond-holders and some semblance of the rule of law can survive another seven months or so - and I'm just not so sure of that anymore.
Radegunda| 3.26.10 @ 1:39AM
When major players in this game--including the prez--have said that they really want a single-payer system and this is just the "starter" and they've got a ways to go yet, it's a little shortsighted to dismiss all talk of a government takeover. If this were such a middle-of-the-road bill in sum and in its inevitable results, we wouldn't be seeing such giddy rejoicing among the statist left.
elections have CONsequences| 3.25.10 @ 8:23PM
The only thing that can save you now is article STFU! Sadly though very few of you know anything about it!
Radegunda| 3.26.10 @ 1:43AM
Spoken like a true leftard: Non-leftists should not be able to express their opinions about anything. That's the consequence of one election!
I recall little Barry saying something like that: he didn't want his critics to keep talking. And he's prez, so he gets his way. Everybody else STFU. That's the new Democracy in America.
Pingback| 3.25.10 @ 8:36PM
Quin Hillyer « Tain's Stories links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
dandan| 3.25.10 @ 9:13PM
Hey, I'm part of the American People too. And a doctor who cares about my patients and their ability to get treatment. I strongly supported health care reform. If you add up all the people who supported this bill, and then add in all the people who were against it because it wasn't liberal enough, didn't have a public option, etc, then you have a majority of Americans supporting this bill or something even more opposed to the desires of most posting to this board. Those are the facts, you all are not the majority, or "the people," you are just some of the people.
Scorpion| 3.25.10 @ 9:19PM
Hey Doctor Dan when the government mandates that your new salary going forward is $75,000 a year come chat with us then.
DanDan| 3.25.10 @ 9:33PM
Hey Scorpion,
OK, I will.
Meantime, when the government mandates that you can't put marijuana into your body in the privacy of your own home, or that you can't marry someone you love because they are the same gender, or mandates a draft to send you off to fight a war you don't believe in, you come talk to me. Oh wait, that kind of thing already happens, and most people posting here are real glad about it. Hey, the government mandates a lot of stuff.
What I don't get is why most conservative Republicans are happy to have the government mandate what I can do with my body and my love life, but not with my wallet. Wallet is sacred private territory.
newcan| 3.25.10 @ 10:32PM
Hey Dr. Dan -- I really, REALLY hope you are better at your medical thing than you are at constitutional law. Ore factual analysis in general.
Old Soldier| 3.26.10 @ 1:26PM
Son, there ain't o draft no more...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=einZgVrnfG0
Radegunda| 3.26.10 @ 1:53AM
Dandan, over 90 percent of your doctor colleagues say that tort reform is essential to any meaningful cost control, but the Dems will never do anything to threaten their cash flow from the trial lawyers. Why do you think they put the wealth of trial lawyers above the health of American citizens?
And since Dems appear to be pretty strongly supportive of what went through Congress, while independents and Republicans are strongly against, the crowd that thinks it doesn't go far enough must be relatively small. The Dems are telling the far-leftists that this is just the beginning, after all. Heck, it's good enough to get Castro's gold star.
Pingback| 3.25.10 @ 9:49PM
About ‘Plan A’: Plan A.1 is Revenge « Si Vis Pacem links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Carol| 3.25.10 @ 10:44PM
This excellent article should be read by everyone because everyone will be affected by Obamacare.
How can Obama get away with this? Is there the slightest chance that the SCOTUS will do something about this abuse of power?
Bob Belvedere | 3.25.10 @ 11:22PM
Awarded the THE SPOT-ON QUOTE OF THE DAY at:
The Camp Of The Saints
John II| 3.25.10 @ 11:59PM
If anyone of the numerous liberals posting on this site is interested, which is doubtful, but hey, just ANY one, try this:
Repeal and Replace [Sen. John Cornyn]
This week, President Obama signed into law a health-care bill that was rushed through the Senate on Christmas Eve, pushed through the House of Representatives near midnight on Sunday, and which has been overwhelmingly rejected by the American people. Democrats are now celebrating their great victory, but it will be short lived. This health-care bill will be repealed; it’s not a question of “if,” but “when.”
Earlier this week, a blog post generated confusion over my position on what to do next. Actions speak louder than words, however, so yesterday I signed on as a co-sponsor to a bill that is a straightforward repeal of what the president signed on Tuesday. That should clarify my position. Let me explain why all of us who favor repeal should be confident of success.
The health-care bill will be repealed because Americans have followed the debate in Washington for more than a year, and their views are clear. According to a weekend poll by CNN, 59 percent of the American people oppose the health-care bill. Twice as many Americans think they will be worse off than better off under the bill, and five times as many believe that the bill will make the federal deficit worse than better. Every Republican in Congress heard the voices of our people and voted against this bill, as did 34 Democrats in the House. No one who voted against Washington’s $2.6 trillion power grab in the first place should have any qualms about repealing this boondoggle at the first opportunity.
Of course, the White House anticipates that the American people will learn to love this bill so much that repeal will soon become politically impossible. In their view, seniors will learn to love the cuts to Medicare, small business owners will learn to love the employer mandate, and we will all learn to love the 16,000 IRS agents who will soon be enforcing all the new taxes and mandates. In truth, popular support for repeal has only begun to grow. Every person who loses their employer-based coverage, and every family that sees their premiums continue to rise, will join the repeal effort.
Yet even if repeal does not become popular, it will soon become necessary, whether Washington likes it or not. The United States simply cannot afford another vast new entitlement, and the bond markets are making that clear. This week we learned that lending your money to Warren Buffet is now a safer investment than lending it to Washington. Many financial analysts expect the United States could soon lose its AAA debt rating, which would increase the share of our tax dollars used to finance the national debt. Investors can see through all the budget gimmicks in the health-care bill, and they can see how Washington has put the full faith and credit of our country at even greater risk. A fiscal reckoning is inevitable in the next few years, and repeal will be the first major step back on the path to fiscal discipline.
Of course, Republicans seek not only to repeal this health-care bill, but also to replace it with something better. Make no mistake: “replace” does not mean tinkering around the edges of this $2.6 trillion bill. “Replace” does not mean saying “yes but less” to another unsustainable entitlement. “Replace” means enacting reforms that will actually lower the costs of health care, which the American people want and expect us to do.
Republicans will help lower the costs of health care by offering many of the commonsense solutions we proposed repeatedly over the last year. These solutions include giving states incentives to implement insurance reforms that will expand competition in each market, and finding ways to ensure that individuals with pre-existing conditions can access the coverage they need. They include giving employers more flexibility to reward healthy behaviors, and changing the incentives in the healt-care system to favor higher-value care. Our solutions include expanding health savings accounts, accelerating medical-liability reforms, and increasing transparency and accountability throughout the system. Many of these ideas have been field-tested across America and have proven successful in lowering costs and improving access to care.
Democrats ignored these Republican solutions as they plotted their takeover of the health-care system, and now repeal must take place before any of these solutions can be implemented. Republicans should assure all Americans that lowering the costs of health care remains in reach and remains our goal. And we must make clear that that goal begins with repeal.
— Sen. John Cornyn is chairman of the National Republican Senatorial Committee.
03/25 04:34 PMShare
elections have CONsequenses| 3.26.10 @ 12:54AM
So it's going to be repealed? Even if the republicans win enough seats to control one house of congress it will never get done with Obama as president. By the next election the country will have lived with the plan for two plus years. They will be saying hey where are the death panels? Where is the overbearing government intrusion? I like a lot of this bill. The poor will be getting some much deserved help. What are you republicans going to say (in best Seinfield soup Nazi voice) NO MORE HEALTH CARE FOR YOU! All the out and out lies will still be ringing in their ears and the public will be wondering how many other lies the republicans and the Main stream corporate media have been spewing at them. The years of lies under Bush and the disaster of his eight years of presidency will be called into sharp relief as the economy continues to recover and small business spring up no longer unable to compete in a marketplace where they can now get health insurance for their employees. No the failure of this system is not what you all are really worried about its the success that eats you. Grow up.
Radegunda| 3.26.10 @ 1:57AM
If you had any honesty, you would admit that things have gotten worse for most people in the last year than they ever were under the allegedly horrible eight years of Bush. Grow up and face the facts.
Pete| 3.26.10 @ 10:49AM
"The poor will be getting some much deserved help."
Needed? Perhaps? Deserved? Hmmmm.
Yosemeti Sam| 3.26.10 @ 2:00AM
" Why Revenge Is Necessary...."
Moreover a dish best served - cold!
John Morris | 3.26.10 @ 2:12AM
I'm afraid we all must grow up very quickly or starve.
Hysterical racist bond buyers in places like China seem sort of worried and don't trust Obama's policies or predictions.
"WEAK DEMAND: Interest rates climbed in the bond market Thursday after a government debt auction drew tepid demand. Auctions Tuesday and Wednesday also saw lower demand.
NOT THAT INTERESTED: The auction of $32 billion in seven-year notes saw demand fall from the past two months. That means the government could have to start offering higher interest rates to attract buyers."
Since Tuesday. Also, as of today Social Security is "surprisingly in the red" about 6 years before it was predicted.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/.....0&.v=2
CheshireCat| 3.26.10 @ 2:48AM
Now Obama is hot on taking over health care
He’s made it his personal affair
Lab rats and body parts you will all be
As he goose-stepped all over the Constitution, said he
‘Cause you see, anything that brings more glory and power to me, you must all just grin and bare
David | 3.26.10 @ 12:23PM
Don't believe DanDan. I don't believe he is a real doctor for a minute.
John II| 3.26.10 @ 1:02PM
If he is, apparently it doesn't take much to get through medical school these days. I'm old enough (late 60's) to have met many, many medical doctors, and none of them ever talked like a 16-year-old bopper. Academic "doctors," yes--but medical doctors?
It's occurred to me that the really necessary condition for supporting Obamacare is infantilism rather than liberalism. Perhaps the two have become one.
Petronius| 3.26.10 @ 8:54PM
Bravo John II
Read 'The Great Roob Revolution", by Roger Price, (of Monster Madlib fame); Random House 1970
David| 3.26.10 @ 1:01PM
Senator Cornyn, thanks for your commitment to repealing and replacing the health care bill.
But please answer me sir, as a leader of the Republican party, why do they constantly miss great opportunties to inform the average citizen on things they can truly understand. The average citizen is overwhelmed by all of the numbers thrown around, the legal speak, the procedural rules, and none can understand what is really in the 2,700 page bill.
What the average person can understand is that the Premier of New Foundland, Canada, went to Miami a few weeks ago to have his open heart surgery. The averge person understands what it means when he responded to Canadian criticism for doing so with: "It is my heart, it is my health, and it is my decision. I did not give up my right to get the best health care when I became a politician." The average American also understands what it means when he further said: "If I had the surgery in Canada, I would have been criticized for jumping to the front of the line."
I have asked several people at the law firm where I work, incidentally, it is a firm in which you recently held a fundraiser, if they had heard the Premier's story. Those are supposed to be fairly well-informed people and none had heard of it. If a person didn't happen to log on to Drudge Report on a particular day, he would not know of the story.
Who do I blame for that ignorance? All members of the Republican party. That was a story that revealed all we need to know about government-run healthcare and would have resonated with the average person. It may have even changed a few minds. The Republican reps and senators should have been shouting it from the rooftops from the past month, and you were silent. You were incompetent and derilect in your leadership duty.
And now that I am in a critical frame of mind, I caution you to change your ways and start supporting the true conservative candidates in primary races. Backing Charlie Crist over Rubio in Florida is almost a crime in view of the mood of the country. And this is not the first time you have failed in that regard. That is why so many previous contributors say they will never again contribute to the senatorial committee or the RNC. The establishment continues to back RINO's rather than conservatives.
So, thanks to you and the repubs for again missing a great opportunity to inform and educate the voting public.
darcy| 3.26.10 @ 2:12PM
David: I agree with your sentiments. Too little too late, IMO.
Since the Greek Chorus, aka MSM, aka the propaganda wing of the Left, keep telling us what we need to know and what we need to think about what we need to know, Conservative Pols are going to have to get creative and devise ways to HIGHLIGHT various messages to counter the lies and distortions daily bombarding the public.
Jim| 3.26.10 @ 1:30PM
I agree with CM. Obama is an ass (not a fool, but a communist ass) but WE elected him. A nation full of even somewhat informed, thinking citizens wouldn't have listened to his community-reformer tripe for two minutes, and yet "Hope & Change" got them all worked up, and him into the White House. I love America, but Americans are often emotion-led fools. Many times, when I try to engage one of my "fellow" Americans on a substantive issue, I get a blank stare, and the discussion turns to sports or what some dimwit celebrity is doing. If I do get a response, it often is of the "where's mine" variety, i.e., give me something, but make someone else pay for it, or crybaby "woe is me" crap. Of course, you didn't lose "your" house because you had a no down payment, ARM mortgage, for which you couldn't hope to make the payments after the reset. NO, it was those "fat cats" on Wall Street who done it to you! They MADE you have 140% of your yearly income in credit card debt!
Now, with health care, which is a mainly a made-up crisis, we are truly screwed. All we needed was to be able to buy insurance across state lines (this has proved to be a huge boon to auto insurance seekers, like me) and a return to knowing what we pay, either out of pocket or through our insurance policy, for services, so we don't feel as if they are "free" because they are "covered" by insurance.
Sadly, there are too many willfully uninformed citizens (can someone who is willfully uninformed even be called a citizen?) who are easily baited by Obama's brand of politics, so our decline as a nation will continue.
As for majority rules, DanDan, not always. A majority of the citizenry wanted blacks to remain in their place, women not to vote, etc., but that makes it neither right, nor constitutional. And clearly, forcing, not recommending, advising, providing, but FORCING citizens to buy health care is unconstitutional, no matter how many supporters govt. health care has.
And for those who THINK they'll love govt. provided health care, I invite you to consider just about ANY govt. service provider and ponder if you would consider these providers of the caliber and temperment you'd truly want keeping you healthy, and perhaps even alive. (What's the emoticon for shuddering vigorously?)
Jim
John II| 3.26.10 @ 4:38PM
How about this for an apt emoticon:
((( !?! )))
At any rate, that's how I feel when I'm in line at the post office or DMV.
Intervenor| 3.27.10 @ 4:09AM
The solution is obvious! Quin Hillyer will run against President Obama in 2012. He will take on the awesome responsibility of proving that health care insurance reform that will give 95% of Americans access to health care is a very, very bad thing. Go get him, Bucko!
Roegae| 3.27.10 @ 11:38AM
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CJohnson| 3.28.10 @ 4:32AM
I love you, Quinn. It will be okay. Somehow.
Graig Yarbrough| 3.28.10 @ 3:54PM
This quote is brilliant.
"“The mandate to buy health insurance is an abomination. The very thought of a government forcing individuals to buy something the individuals don't want is anathema. It is abject tyranny. It is manifestly unconstitutional. It is despotic. It is so antithetical to the American tradition as to be unacceptable and invalid. For those reasons, it may well lead to non-violent civil disobedience on a massive scale. “
I fear it won't be so "non-violent once people reach the state of utter frustration.
Probably a good time to call for martial law and exacerbate the problem further.
ahem| 3.28.10 @ 5:06PM
"They will be saying hey where are the death panels? Where is the overbearing government intrusion? I like a lot of this bill. "
Dear electionshaveconsequences: You would. Obviously, you are the proud possesser of a left-wing American education, subsidized in part by American taxpayers. Too bad we can't get our five bucks back. I will restrain myself from doing other here than quickly insulting you. Alas, too soon will you be realizing who, exactly, is out of touch with reality on this issue. Rest assured, the rest of us will be laughing--not with you, but at you.
Pingback| 3.28.10 @ 9:55PM
THE ENDS JUSTIFY THE MEANS FOR THE RAVING ATROCITY OF OBAMACARE « THE MILLSTONE DIARI links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Shavonne | 3.29.10 @ 1:59AM
The reason it is not a "story" is because the author is making it all up and if you actually read the story-doesnt back any of his claims up. Oh and another sign of a real journalist? name calling. Yep thats what I look for.
What the?| 3.30.10 @ 3:09AM
How is the government making you buy weapons systems you not want from private companies different than them making you buy insurance from private companies? I mean I thought you Cons worshipped on the alter of private companies doing everything that the government does? Its still your money from taxes right? Going to private companies. So if people want a public option you scream and if it is private companies you scream.
I think you all just like to scream.