The American Spectator

Appleby| 6.10.09 @ 6:56AM

To discover exactly how this works, look North to Kanukistan.

The only thing that is saving the years-long wait-listed patients now is the pop-off-valve of the American private healthcare system, where they can come to get an MRI in 24 hours, not six months, and discover the tumour before it becomes inoperable, then have the operation immediately and not next year by which time their only option is to put their affairs in order. And it starts young. There are more days than you know when the only thing that will save the lives of newborns who happen to come into the world when there is not a single ICU bed in the entire country of Canada, is an airlift to the USA, usually to a small border town where the technology is ten years ahead of the best their own country can offer. Where will these babies go when there are no ICU beds in North America?

And how will you enjoy having your MRI at a vet clinic because your doctor can pay a privately-run vet clinic under the table to get you that critical treatment the human hospitals cannot provide?

If you want to see what this looks like in practice, come up to Canada and spend a weekend in any emergency room in the country. Listen to your audiologist tell you [shrug] that either you can stay on the waiting list for three months for an MRI to see if its a brain tumor that is giving you those problems, or you can head across the border and pay cash. Now imagine what your life will be like when all you get is the shrug.

Unless, of course, you are an apparatchik or one of the Nomenklatura.

Marc Jeric| 6.10.09 @ 7:09AM

What about trial lawyer hyenas? America is the only civilized country where you can sue anybody and, if losing, just walk away. Everywhere else the loser must automatically pay all costs, direct and indirect, of the court and of the defendant. Thatis why we have 1.100,000 lawyers while Japan, Germany, and Great Britain have a total of about 35,000. Let us change that and the cost of healthcare will drop by 35% - you know, defensive medicine, all those unnecessary tests, malpractice insurance, etc. Such a reform would put a stop to our eco-nazis as well.

Robert| 6.10.09 @ 7:45AM

Marc,

But the lawyers are the wolves in control of the hen house! Hell will freeze over before trial lawyers (Dem contributors, all) will lose sway in DC. The only question I have: how successful will trial lawyers be suing the government?

Ahhh the joys of interest group politics! Messiah 'bama may walk on water but can't please all his flock, huh?

Darin| 6.10.09 @ 7:54AM

Any talk of "health care reform" by the government must incorporate ALL members of Congress (past, present, future), the Supreme Court, and the President abiding by the exact same policies with the same level, amount, and availability of service. Any "two-tier" system where the "leaders" don't have to live with the same system they impose on us "serfs" is the very definition of elitism. Or, since they supposedly work for me, why are they "more important" than me?

Also, show me any large program/agency run by the government which is effective. An argument could be made for the military, but the military is an all-volunteer force and thus comprised of individuals motivated to make it succeed. Further, government-imposed regulations make many parts of the military (e.g., system development and acquisition) much harder than they need to be. This proposed health care is non-voluntary, and we'd still have the maze of rules (many conflicting).

Obama's stimulous package was a joke (wasn't even read by Congress). He's backpeddling now and has come up with an impossible-to-measure statistic of "jobs created or saved." Health care statistics would be equally meaningless (there are lies, damned lies, and statistics), but the difference is it would result in unnecessary suffering and death.

Jay| 6.10.09 @ 8:04AM

I wonder what will happen to the massive bundle of rights enjoyed by the lazy when they become the majority? Will the government tax their largesse? Using the money given them by the government to breed democrats to give them more money to breed democrats? One day the money presses will run non-stop.

The democrats must have poor people to stay in power. So they want to enfranchise illagal aliens and encourage irresponsible poor people to breed more irresponsible poor people. At present only half of Americans pay any federal taxes at all. What happens to funding for the lazy when that number reaches 35% or 25%?

Once again the calm rational mind of America's greatest unknown philosopher of the 21st Century comes to the rescue. We permit each of the non taxpaying citizens to bear only one child and take away their right to vote if they have more. This removes them from the democrat's very small list of constituencies, and it slowly reduces their population, so that they eventually disappear, never again to be a cancer on our freedoms.

But there is one more thing Americans must do and that is pass a constitutional amendment that makes Congress a participant in every "benefit" they provide for us. That means their pension is social security, just like yours. No more fat, rich pensions for doing nothing for 30 years, just SS.
( It would be fixed over this weekend). Also their cradle to grave medical care ( for free for them and their families) would go away and they must be subject to the same "quality" medical care that you a nd I will be subjected to in the Obama Health Care Rationing Plan.

And yes, their extra and substantial tax deductions they have ( and were it up to me, Congress would automatically go into the highest tax bracket so they too, could experience that "Patriotism", Jabberin' Joe Bidnen spoke of so lovingly.), their parking at airports, junkets would all be gone. They would have to live in the real world, just like you and I do.

Curly Smith| 6.10.09 @ 8:31AM

No Jay, once the Government runs Health Care, then the poor aren't needed because the Government will have the power of life and death over each citizen. Besides, when Obama's through we'll all be poor. For decades the Democrats have run on the fear platform of "vote for us or the Republicans will take your Social Security away"; now they'll run on "vote for us or lose your Health Care". Card Check will eliminate the secret ballots that decide whether or not to unionize, Vote Check will eliminate the secret ballots in all political elections. Nationalized Health Care isn't about providing treatment to the sick and injured, it's about power. How misguided does one have to be to want to give the people in Washington more power?

Melvin| 6.10.09 @ 8:36AM

My dear brothers and sisters. I spent twenty years in the military and by virtue of a contractual agreement with the US government for twenty years of honest and faithful service I would be rewarded with, "Free" health care.
I don't know where the, "Free" comes into play because I pay insurance premiums and co-pays albeit much lower than the private sector.
Let us say that I develop a certain medical malady. In order to see my health care provider which would be either a nurse practitioner or physicians assistant but never a doctor and not chosen by me I would call a certain number and if I was lucky enough to reach the appointment desk it would take thirty or more days just to make a routine appointment for non life threatening medical problems.
If it is deemed that I need a MRI or to see a medical provider outside the military health care providers I would have to be referred out and a specialist or some other provider would be chose by a company called Health Net and they would chose the doctor for me to see.
Once the referral is sent to me by mail I would call the health care provider and make an appointment which on average takes another thirty days.
So what was a minor medical issue has been turned into a serious medical issue by nature of it being left untreated for over 2-1/2 months or so.
By the way I also fall under the Veterans Administration which sent me a letter that due to the sheer volume of veterans seeking medical redress for their medical issues that it would take six months to a year to be seen by the VA.
Let me make one thing crystal clear here. Military and VA health care is Socialized medicine. Once seen by the health care provider, you are provided enough medical services enough to get you out of the office. There is no and I repeat no followup or long term heath care. You are seen for what ails you at that exact time nothing more.
In other words if I seek treatment for extreme headaches, I will get treatment for the headache and not health care for why I am getting the headaches.
Ahhhh, the simple joys of socialized assisted suicide.

Louis Jenkins| 6.10.09 @ 8:42AM

To all above, Amen! Once elected to leadership an individual enters into a 'fairy tale' world of power, privilege, and exceptionalism. Truly, we have created an aristocratic strata of our society. Meanwhile, the serfs and 'untouchables' , aka taypayers, are forced to greatfully serve up their fortunes (albeit small) and their very lives to the feudal Lords and Masters. With the Obamacare plan the very Golden Goose (taxpayers) will be slowly killed off by Governmental Greed, health service regulation, and health provider strangulation. Then what? Jesus said that we will have the poor with us always. It is fixed and even Obama can't change it.

Melvin| 6.10.09 @ 9:19AM

Thought of the day: Would Senator Edward Kennedy still be walking around if we had Obama Care?
Or under Obama Care would Senator Edward Kennedy have received a notice from a fellow bureaucrat that due to the terminal nature of Senator Edwards malady he will only receive enough treatment to make him comfortable and allow the cancer to take it's course to final resolution?

KyMouse| 6.10.09 @ 9:21AM

Cal Thomas recently pointed out that Obama's new National Coordinator of Health Information Technology is a bureaucracy that poses a grave danger to us all. It will monitor any patient's treatment to ensure that it follows federal guidelines.

I help out in a pro-life ministry that has been warning people for decades about the slippery slope of abortion and euthanasia. Now maybe people will begin listening, if it isn't too late. As Cal wrote, "Euthanasia will not originate with your beloved grandparents or parents. It will start in a public hospital with a 100-year-old woman who has multiple health problems and 'wants' to die so as not to 'burden' anyone. Public opinion polls will determine that a majority favor letting -- even helping -- the old girl die.

"Yes, there are times when a patient and his family may decide to forego treatment and allow death to occur, but that decision should not be made by a government official," Cal continued. "Once that door is opened (as it was with abortion) there will be no closing it, and dying will become a patriotic duty when the patient's balance sheet shows a deficit."

Former U.S. Surgeon C. Everett Koop, M.D. came down with an illness in 1988 that left him quadriplegic at age 72. An operation restored the use of his limbs. He told Cal, "If I'd have lived in England, I would have been nine years too old to have the surgery." There, but for the grace of God, go you and I.

Aaron| 6.10.09 @ 9:23AM

Melvin,

I wish all Americans could experience our military system of state run medical for a short time just so they could get a taste, they would run as far as they could. Don't get me wrong, I'm not ungrateful. But for example, the other day I go to Tricare online appointments, I have the option of "new urgent appointment"... none available (apparently forever). The next option, "new non-urgent"(to me its kind of urgent)... next available is in two weeks for 10 mins. with a phys. assist. By the way, I'm active duty how is that for state run medical care? Of course people always comment that you can take advantage of the ER... Clearly not an option, in my opinion an ER is for emergencies, you know stuff that involves life, limb and eyesight. Call me crazy.

And I can't stress enough either that there is NO FOLLOW UP OR LONG TERM CARE! No one cares. Its all about the problem at hand and get the hell out.

Picture the DMV with flu shots! next, next, next, KEEP IT DOWN!, next, next, WE HAVE A BLEEDER, next, next, next, don't touch that, next, next...

Robert Pinkerton| 6.10.09 @ 9:58AM

Mr. Jenkins, in support of yours of 10/06/09/0842, I offer this quotation from the novelist Frank Herbert: "Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristocratic forms. No government in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, governments tend more and more to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class -- whether that class be hereditary royalty, oligarchs of financial empires, or entrenched bureaucracy."

Aristos = one of "the best," i.e.: the top layer of socio-economic status, by self-appellation combined with the power to enforce at least lip-service acquiescence from the lower orders.

Kratein = [to] rule, with the connotation of exercise of hard power (As counterposed to archein, which has a less brutal connotation.)

dagny taggart| 6.10.09 @ 10:21AM

As is usual, the law of unintended consequences will prevail. Here are a couple examples:

1. Primary care docs will opt out of government health care as they already in Medicare. An initial visit costing $150 and follow up of $50 is affordable for most and will be quite valuable if long queues develop. Primary docs will gain because they will not have to contend with billing personnel, electronic records, and payment delays.
2. Without primary docs, getting into the right specialist will be more difficult.
3. Some specialists will organize their own clinics to offer advanced services. This is happening now in Canada.
4. MRI facilities are already offering scans for $550-600 flat rate at time of service. Not bad if you have been told that you have to wait several months to find out whether that headache is a tumor or aneurysm.

If God forbid they pass socialized health care, let's hope it so bad that it implodes.

Bram| 6.10.09 @ 10:32AM

Somebody remind what part of the Constitution granted Congress these powers.

Aaron| 6.10.09 @ 10:36AM

One other thought...

It is entirely possible that Mexico could see a huge boom in American medical business. There is already a booming dental business flowing across the border complete with limos and security at half the price. Why wouldn't high quality docs set up large clinics offering a plethora of services free from the American government and lawyers? Do they teach Spanish in India?

Stan Redmond| 6.10.09 @ 11:41AM

I don't care who calls me a racist here. The white christian male will be the one shafted the most by any of this government run healthcare. The rationing will be tilted heavily to victimhood status. Just look at the disparity between spending on men versus women in the NHS of the UK. EIGHT TIMES MORE MONEY is spent on women's issues than on men's. If you happen to be a white man who falls ill, too bad. Funding the STD treatment and sex change operations of gay lesbian transgendered transsexual minority streetwalkers will be first priority.

Merlin| 6.10.09 @ 11:49AM

Daren @7:54am

Bingo!

and, if you are past retirement age, your patriotic duty will be to die quietly.

Pat| 6.10.09 @ 12:21PM

The media tried to keep the peasants distracted but hints of Obamacare have been on the Web for years, long before Obama became a media darling. The problem has always been demographics, unfavorable demographics specifically. It's not a particularly closely guarded secret that Medicare has a very serious medical condition of its own - mainly dollar anemia.

At present, Medicare costs are projected to rise at 5 times the rate of Social Security costs over the next 20 years. SS pays the monthly stipend, the welfare payments to the retired, Medicare covers their related medical expenses. By fiddling with payout rates depending on retirement age, changing the age when you are eligible for retirement and taxing any social security payments in a complex formula dependent on what your non-SS earnings are, the system can limp along until the mid-point of when the current Boomer generation goes into full retirement mode.

But with Medicare, accounting games can't save lives or ease the demand by a demographically older population for medical services. And such services are becoming more and more costly per individual, particularly in the year preceding death. You can push your retirement out, and many will, but you can't electively push out the time when you need greatly increased medical care.

With the polite fiction that you and your employer paid taxes from wages that cover future medical costs, citizens feel they've built a nest egg toward a future rainy, or rather sick, day. But the Medicare system is really nothing more than welfare, current taxpayers support retirees, money is transferred from the working young folks to the old and sick. Obama probably believes it's time to drop the pretense. Why not combine all govt. health care plans (including Medicare) under the aegis of Obamacare (Universal Health Care)? The old won't object and it allows the govt. to spread the wealth, or rather spread the cures, over the entire population.

Blaming Obama misses the point that this day was coming regardless of who holds the White House and Congress. You can't wish everyone to robust health or restore 30 years of youth to the old geezers. Obama and the Democrats will certainly kill, unintentionally or otherwise, many Americans with a govt. run health care system designed by a bureaucrat and as conceived by a politician. We will all die eventually but the Govt. will now have much more influence over when your time will come.

Tim| 6.10.09 @ 12:26PM

Live, die, so what? I get paid the same.

KENT BARTON| 6.10.09 @ 12:42PM

For a clue to Obama's concern for the health of Americans and the value he puts on life one need look no further than his endorsement of partial birth abortion. Partial Birth Abortion is murder--it ends a life at full term, a baby is killed after it is partially expelled from the birth canal. In the Obama Nation health plan, if you are infirm, old, or invalid or need special care in any way you just may become expendable--even if you do vote as a Democrat. Who is Barack Obama, why has he been a 'special exception' since childhood, is he qualified to be President, and why is he paying lawyers millions to keep ALL of his birth and educational records sealed?

lynnrockets| 6.10.09 @ 1:11PM

Mr. Ferrara, I believe that you have embellished your own thoughts upon the actual language of the Obama document. Nevertheless, it is always mysterious to me when Republicans seem to fear an intrusive third party interfering with the doctor/patient relationship when that is precisely what is happening now.

The third party for-profit insurance carriers routinely examine physician proposed medical procedures and then routinely deny those procedures for often times unknown (cost effective?) reasons. The system, as is, is broken with skyrocketing cost increases and a government run program with its economies of scale and non-profit driven agenda would stabilize those costs. You folks often forget that the government has been in the single payor health care business for a long time with the likes of medicare and the Senate/House health plans. I have yet to see all the elderly folks and elected officials screaming to get out of those programs.

Just face it. This time change is coming and you can do nothing about it. The people of the United States have spoken dramatically in the last two elections and your kind is now a relic of the past.

Bram| 6.10.09 @ 1:31PM

lynnrockets has obviously never worked in the healthcare industry. Health insurers are regulated by 50 states plus several territories. Politicians can't help themselves from legislating mandating coverage for every conceivable illness and preventive measure.

The battalions of lawyers, programmers, etc.., hired to comply with these rules, as well payment for all the “preventative” care are what have been driving up insurance costs. Now the Feds are going to jump into the game with both feet and you think costs are going down without a massive drop in service?

lynnrockets| 6.10.09 @ 2:21PM

@ Bram
Hmm, lets see the industry is currently regulated by at least 50 different regulating authorities which would be replaced and/or superceded by one primary regulating authority. Yup, I think costs would go down.

You also failed to address the fact that the govt. run Medicare and Senate/House medical plans run smoothly enough that there is no clamor by those program's recipients to return to a private third party payor system.

Again however, it does not matter any longer what you or I think. The system will now be changed as the result of the will of the people as expressed during the last two elections. Without any power in the White House, the Senate (soon to be 60 Dem seats) or the House, all Republicans can do is sit back and watch the world move forward without them. The filibuster ( if possible at all) will only further alienate an already declining membership in the party. Also, the budget reconciliation procedure can prevent any proposed filibuster.

Just sit back and watch. That is all you can do.

James| 6.10.09 @ 2:27PM

The left has used the trial lawyers to drive health care costs through the roof. Once the liberals get their national health care system in place they will NOT allow all these lawsuits with the unlimited damages. That would destroy THEIR health system.

dagny taggart| 6.10.09 @ 2:41PM

Lynnrockets

Socialized medicine means rationing. Medicare is already eroding and will implode if we entirely nationalize the health care system. Rationing and irrational price controls will only result in providers opting out of the system. And this might just be what the doctor ordered, market based pricing.

Roy| 6.10.09 @ 3:31PM

James: bingo.

The government imposes endless governmo-babble, regula-blather, litigo-nonsense, etc, on the private sector. Then it exempts itself from all of the above. Abracadabra! Now it is cheaper.

Mike| 6.10.09 @ 3:41PM

Military Medicine...

I too am retired military and sometime seethe at the promised free medical and dental care that my 20 years was supposed to earn for me and my family. I have to pay additional insurance premiums and co pays. Yes it is considerably less than what is offered to the civilian world but that is beside the point. I was not promised medical care with significant savings.

I am, however, surprised at the trouble some of you have reported getting treatment. I have a chronic condition and see a family practice MD on a regular basis with ongoing continuing care. Also I developed a shoulder issue and had an MRI scheduled and performed within days and surgery scheduled with a few weeks.

I think it is a mistake to compare retired military health benefits with socialized medicine. Tricare standard and prime would be best compared to civilian medical insurance plans. Good in some areas not so much in others.

I would compare socialized medicine to the VA Hospitals and Medicaid. The observations of lack of follow up and inferior care apply here.

For what it's worth

Mike Johnston
SFC USA (RET)

Osprey1| 6.10.09 @ 3:42PM

LynnRockets....

I have to say you’re an idiot. I know "you won" but the truth of the matter is America is the big loser in all of this. Instead of addressing our problems and moving forward we elected a socialist moron with a deep seated disdain for all things American. In five months he as pushed the nation onward to the brink of bankruptcy, set the wheels in motion for our currency to be devalued and sent signals up around the globe that we are nothing more than a weak kneed nation on the decline, with no sense of responsibility, honor or dignity. Yes there is nothing AMERICANS can do but sit back and watch this train wreck and hope that good sense and reason resonate somewhere in the halls of congress where just maybe even your Democratic brethren will take note that the udder decline of our nation really does not benefit any of us.

Healthcare reform is a joke, it is far too expensive to provide universal healthcare for all humans that can reach our shores, after all if you get here we cannot question your immigration status and therefore must provide full healthcare right? This entire nightmare is absurd; I defy you to name one government operation that is handled more efficiently than those in the private sector? $300 toilet seats and governmental waste is legendary, Heck we just paid 30billion dollars for GM to go bankrupt, had the brilliant government not gotten involved they could have went bankrupt without a penny of taxpayer funding (yes free), yet we should allow some bureaucrat to decide what medical treatment is best? Yes, Healthcare providers already have a say in our care, and we have a say in suing them, going around them, fighting them and getting rid of them for an alternate provider if we don’t like their practices, can't seem to see that happening when the Government is the provider of choice can you.

As a nation I feel we are about doomed, 48% of us are sitting in this hand basket knowing where we are headed and the other 52% are sitting there thinking that it’s a wonderful way to travel, and LynnRockets your safely in the 52%.

pjsandstrom| 6.10.09 @ 4:19PM

The British have the National Health Service which is a vast boondoggle and of diminishing quality. They even have a committee called "NICE" to administer the rationing of health services -- how Orwellian!

Flora| 6.10.09 @ 5:01PM

Osprey1....I couldn't have said it better myself. And LynnRockets IS an idiot of the fullest order. Blind morons...the same ones that will have the "blood" of America on their hands as we cease to be all that our rich past has built upon. I am *greatly* angered and even more sad because I love my country and see it going away. I know many Obama voters who are sorry for their vote now. Lynn, you can shove your "we won" attitude because no one with half a brain would be happy about the implosion of their once-magnificent country.

Socialist rationed healthcare MUST be stopped. What a hideous, hideous nightmare this is going to be if not. Pray you don't get breast cancer there, Lynn. Your mortality rate will drop severely. Dolt.

dagny taggart| 6.10.09 @ 5:52PM

It's almost to the point where this discussion of socialized health care will become a moot point. The US socialists should realize that the dollar is cracking, China doesn't want to buy long term debt, today Russia announced it will reduce treasury buys.
Yes the President may have a role in determining whether we will have socialized medicine. However, that President is from China.
Hey China, take away Obama's credit card!

lynnrockets| 6.10.09 @ 6:18PM

Why can't so many of you carry on a conversation without resorting name calling ? Nonetheless, as I've said before, Medicare and the Senate/House medical plan are both single payor (what you folks would call socialist) programs and they both work well without any recipients that I know of clamoring to get off those programs. The govt. runs them well and I might add far better than the private sector GM, Chrysler or A.I.G. ran their operations.

2Guns, AZ| 6.10.09 @ 6:41PM

lynnrockets

You're kidding, right? The unfunded part of medicare and SS is at 105 trillion.

Of course, they run ok now, but the bill will come due.

lynnrockets| 6.10.09 @ 6:55PM

A mere pittance compared to the Bush Administration deficits. Nevertheless, a single payor program is still less expensive than the for-profit model we currently utilize. I bet even your health insurance premiums have risen much more quickly than you ever anticipated. Face it, health care coverage is an expensive endeavor regardless of how it is funded, but the present model is a failure. Evidence of that fact is that the U.S. is the only industrialized nation on earth without such a system. And please do not give me the argument that we are so much better and smarter than the rest of the world that we cannot learn something from them.

Again, however, it really does not matter what is bantered about on a right wing website because conservatives no longer have a voice in national politics. So said the voters in the last two elections. republicans need to find a way to rebuild their own voter registration before they attempt to build or engineer anything else.

Sue| 6.10.09 @ 7:25PM

To Lynnrockets:

Bush and the repub.,/ then democrat Congress spent an average of $55,000,000,000 per month over seven years. Your "winner" has spent $150,000,000,000 per month since October 1st the beginning of the government's fiscal year. The government is auctioning off $150,000,000,000 per month in paper and the foreign governments are not buying. Who is going to fund our national health care and why would they? In case you didn't know, the government is running a deficit of anywhere from $500,000,000,000 to over $1 trillion dollars a YEAR with your "winner." How do you think the taxpayers will even begin to pay the interest on this kind of debt? This is all before 72,000,000 of us baby boomers go on social security and medicare.

As far as those not "leaving" medicare, 90% of them sure wish they could! Medicare won't pay for certain tests, unless of course, there are other complications that justify it! They wouldn't pay for a simple test for a thyroid gland problem for a friend of mine! Do you have any friends on medicare that you can discuss this with?

Obama is the "commander in chief" not the "health care in chief." He hasn't even proven yet that he can run the military, yet he wants to run our health care industry!

You can look up the numbers yourself if your inclined to be a "critical thinker for yourself."

Sue| 6.10.09 @ 7:26PM

Sorry; spelling error: if "you're" inclined. I've been reading too many "your" in error.

Tom| 6.10.09 @ 7:27PM

True story for all proponents of socialized medicine--As a neurosurgery resident working at the VA hospital, I had a patient become comatose from an intracranial bleed and ordered an emergent CT scan. The CT tech refused to perform the scan stating that " I have high blood pressure and must go to lunch so I can take my medicine." Despite complaints on my behalf, he kept his job and remains an employee of the VA to this day.
Our elderly senators ( Kennedy- brain cancer, Specter- Lymphoma) are treated with the most advanced state of the art medicine in the timeliest manner, while these same individuals are going to vote for a plan that would deny the average American the same treatment.
While our current system has many flaws, it still provides the most accurate and timely care that exists.

lynnrockets| 6.10.09 @ 7:50PM

@ Sue
You conveniently left out the cost of Bush's wars, much like he left those numbers out of the budget.
I deal with many people on a daily basis that are Medicare recipients and almost universally they find that they recieve equal or better care without having to argue and negotiate with their health insurer. But if you like your private payor plan so much, you will still be able to keep it with Obama's plan. In fact, the competition may prompt your carrier to control costs more effectively, which will be to your benefit.

So, sit back and try to enjoy the change that you folks have no way of stopping.

TJK| 6.10.09 @ 7:52PM

Lynn, I will not resort to name-calling, I just need to point out something. Your comment, "You also failed to address the fact that the govt. run Medicare and Senate/House medical plans run smoothly enough that there is no clamor by those program's recipients to return to a private third party payor system. " is about as false as a three-dollar bill. If your statement was true, no one would need to purchase a medicare supplement plan. But every senior who becomes medicare-eligible and has the means to do so purchases one. Why? Because there are coverage gaps you can drive a fleet of semis through. And the Medicare Part D Rx coverage? Yikes! When a plan is designed with a "donut hole" (yes, that's what Congress called the huge gap of about $2500 that YOU have to pay for out of your pocket, even though you think you have paid for a comprehensive plan), there is a HUGE clamor for Part D supplement plans.

The bottom-line is, the government has NEVER intruded into the private sector and made things better.

If the intention is to bring into the fold those who have no coverage, fine. But don't destroy the plan I have, and don't you dare take away my freedom to choose.

Gill O’Teen ✝✡| 6.10.09 @ 8:00PM

What everyone on this thread is overlooking is that obumassiah has been declared “god” by m-s-n-b-c. As a god, he can work miracles. So all we have to do is publicly display his holy image where all the faithful can prostrate themselves in total supplication whereby all their ills will be washed away with all their sins. Much cheaper in the long run.

Surely, this car company genius would not adopt any policy that might cause harm to our grandfathers and grandmothers. After all these treasured American Citizens are the ones who rebuilt this country after enduring the Great Depression and World War II. And we have seen a demonstration of his love and concern for all U.S. Citizens as his votes against the Born Alive Infant Protection Act are proof positive of his infinite mercy towards the least of us. Not to mention that very recently he directed his lawyers to assure that all those captured in combat against American Soldiers must be advised of their Constitutional Rights on the battlefield before they are taken into custody. If that’s not mercy, I don’t know what is.

As far as Constitutional authority. Heck, boys and girls, he’s a god. What’s a Constitution compared to his magnificence? It’s not like it was etched in stone.

Besides didn’t a great Catholic university just award him some sort of doctor’s degree? Doesn’t that mean that he’s even more qualified than a god to diagnose just what ails us? I know I feel so much better knowing that a doctor is overhauling our health care system.

Now there just might be some of you who are not convinced. You might even think him more a Golden Calf than a true god. But do not be afraid that this elected one will prove false, nor that his true believers will meet the same fate as those poor souls who worshiped some metallic desert idol so many years ago. After all, that happened before this golden calf was even born. Those events are much too archaic to have any relevance the enlightened thinkers of this day and age. Be more afraid that we have no Moses to lead us through the wilderness of this theocratic presidency.

lynnrockets| 6.10.09 @ 8:10PM

@ TJK
First of all, it is refreshing to read a sound voice and argument like yours. I still however disagree because the Medicare supplement plans are still much cheaper than paying for a full third party plan. Also, as for the Part D Rx coverage, you can thank the Republicans for that. Once again, however, it is nice to hear a sane voice and know that reasonable people may differ. Thank you.

TJK| 6.10.09 @ 8:36PM

Lynn, you are absolutely right about Part D. I will not defend Pres.Bush for that. My only hope is that all arguments will be heard in Washington on the reform bill, as they have been here in this small corner of the world. The problem I have is this administration, and the leaders in Congress, have not allowed any true debate on what they have done thus far, even going so far as to ignore the first provision of ARRA, which was to have the final version of the bill available for the public to view for 48 hours prior to voting on it. There needs to be a reasoned, true debate on something as sweeping and potentially invasive as this reform bill. This is one case where we need Pres.Obama to live up to his statement of wanting bipartisanship. I hope he does, for all of our sakes.This is too important to be railroaded just for the sake of doing "something."

pete the mediocre| 6.11.09 @ 12:49AM

Now add the premium for the Medicare supplement to the per person cost of Medicare and see how that compares to private insurance. One must also consider the low rates allowed by Medicare for medical procedures. These "cost savings" are made up for by private insurance and individuals.
SOCIALISM DOES NOT WORK...EVER!!!

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NoToObama| 6.11.09 @ 6:15AM

What angers me the most is that those bastards in DC get the BEST of health care and will continue to do so long after we have gone the way of England.

Bram| 6.11.09 @ 8:04AM

lynne - RE: 50 different regulating authorities

Here's the problem, the federal government has no Constitutional power to strip the states of their regulatory authority, or impose their own authority. If challenged, I hope the Supreme Court agrees.

I have long thought that a federally sponsored consortium of state regulators should be established to streamline regulations. NY wouldn't play of course, but maybe most other state departments of insurance would join in.

Bram| 6.11.09 @ 8:06AM

Medicare overpays for everything compared to insurance companies.

casey007| 6.11.09 @ 10:18AM

I work in the health-care industry and have seen the government system up close, and it is a nightmare. Beneath the avalanche of paperwork that is required, doctors are paid a mere pittance for services rendered (the services that have been approved that is and are forever changing). It takes a very very long time to get any sort of reimbursement and if any mistakes are made by the government---which is common---then guess who gets the shaft? Not the government, I can tell you. As a result government covered patients are given the lowest priority and often denied any sort of access to many medical facilities. Doctors are trying to run a business as well as care for the sick, but when it comes to the government, it just does not pay.

As a result the standard of care and availability of services (especially if you need it asap) drops dramatically and ultimately it is the patient who pays the price. If you are lucky enough to secure medical care it is more often than not, perfunctory, disinterested and completely without any plans for follow-up care or in-depth analysis. Get 'em in and get 'em out.

Ones best hope of surviving government run health-care is to not get sick.

If Democrats and Obama get their way then God help us all. Anyone who stubbornly thinks they care about the many "unwashed" and under-privileged masses is in for a rude awakening. They better hope they have some very good connections.

Sue| 6.11.09 @ 7:40PM

To Lynrockets: My numbers included Bush's wars; of which, two of them Obama will continue;

Well, I finished reading the PDF document and have discovered that much of it is just plain, old spin, similar to the spin given our grandparents about social security and medicare. I don't believe for a minute that government reform can wring a 30% efficiency savings from medical care expenditures for Medicare and Medicaid. Believe me, private providers know how to wring efficiencies for the all mighty dollar and that has been proven in our 200 years. Government doing it - nahhh. The very reason the government "has" to do something now is because of the "inefficiencies" they have caused since 1965. The fraud and abuse alone adds anywhere from 10% to 20% to the bills; no where in the bill did they discuss the elimination of that other than attempting to add even more administrative costs to the providers.

As far as the uninsured, the total expenditures for them in 2008 came to $86 billion for ALL states; the government is anticipating this increasing significantly because of even more uninsured being added to the welfare rolls. I don't see how this justifies taking over 65% of the private paying sector with government controls. The real issue is the baby boomers; with 72,000,000 of us soon on welfare (medicare), the government will be controlling more of the private sector by default, so why the rush?

The other real issue is our "welfare state" to being with. When we offer illegals "free health care" and they know they can get it, we become a magnet for every illegal immigrant on the planet. Emergency care is provided for the uninsured which includes the illegals; why do we need to create a huge bureauracy to deliver this care? If anything, once in the emergency room, maybe, just maybe, they would consider getting their own private insurance; but with the government handout being there, probably not.

The other group the government is targeting is the 25 - 30 years olds. Most of the private plans today will allow the children to be covered while in college. Why they aren't purchasing insurance after college or living on their own, no one seems to know. I think it's because of the lack of responsible behavior on their part and has nothing to do with cost. Again, they receive emergency care when needed, but why should they receive unlimited welfare care at my expense?

So the bottom line is, the government thinks they can do a better job of squeezing the all mighty dollar more efficiently than the "profiteers" do; they will create an even larger "voting" block for the democratic party (like Bush tried to do with the prescription drug plan); and they will "ration" care for you if it doesn't meet their paradigm (that means an outstandingly clear or typical example); there will never be anything "outstandingly clear" about the government procedures or controls other than what will "save" them money so they can go looking for the next voting block and more handouts.

I vote NO on this type of health care reform; there have to be other available avenues/options by either using the private network that is already out there, or focusing more on preventive health care incentives, or even hitting us all in our own pocketbooks directly so that we become more responsible as to our purchasing of health care needs.

TJK| 6.11.09 @ 10:31PM

Bram, you are dead wrong. The only way private insurance companies can buidl the networks they have is by paying at least 110% of what medicare pays, in some cases approaching 125%, depending on the availabilty of doctors in certain areas. Please fact-check before blurting out nonsensical ramblings.

Pauley| 6.12.09 @ 12:02AM

Sprockets is a liar--ignore it, maybe it'll pass--like gas.

Let's see: We have 9.4% unemployment now and it's rapidly rising; hyper-inflation and spiking interest rates are also looming on the horizon. All of this is because of the bonehead policies of fascist liberals like Sprockets--we'll see how the 2010 elections turn out.

I hope it's a liberal debacle.

sue| 6.12.09 @ 10:54AM

lynnrockets: Hilarious; I remember how the dems kept howling that the Republicans needed to be bi-partisan, bipartisan, bipartisan; Bush was so bi-partisan that he ruined the party; now that the dems are in power, no one else gets a seat at the table!

How hypocritical! This is what's wrong with our two party system. The republicans think that by being bi-partisan and compromising the democrats are going to "like" them. The jokes on them! Democrats, by yelling how partisan the republicans are, keep their base motivated, but motivated to do what? Tax and spend, tax and spend! Whoopee! Between the two parties the Country is going to hell in a hand basket, but I really don't think lynnrockets would care as long as "she's the only one at the table."

TJK| 6.12.09 @ 7:27PM

Yeah, well, the Dems apparently think that taxing and spending is the cure to all that ails us. We're not recovering fast enough from the recession, so wait, how about if we impose an additional $600 billion in taxes? That should help! Especially since Obama thinks the economic downturn was solely because of rising health care costs. Even Russia warned us not to go this route, and they would know what socialism can do to a nation. This is great, folks, welcome to the United States of Amerika.

Dennis| 6.13.09 @ 4:50PM

Here's an ominous statement in the introduction: "The sources of inefficiency in the U.S. health care system include payment systems that reward medical inputs rather than outcomes, high administrative costs, and inadequate focus on disease prevention."
This is interpreted to mean that if a decision that "medical input" won't produce the desired "outcome," treatment should be refused, since no reward will be forthcoming from the gov.
Rationing as well as care denial, leading to patients lying in the waiting rooms dying by the truckload, or being sent home with nothing.

Richard Baker| 6.14.09 @ 12:39AM

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.
With the Baby Boomers ascendant, that statement is being established. The problem is that the Baby Boomers don't care. Give it to Me!

MoscowRed| 6.15.09 @ 4:50AM

I cannot believe everything I am hearing from back home. So let me give you folks a dose of reality.
I am currently living in a socialized medicine nation. Russia by the way. And the russian people hate it. In fact, I have mentioned to my students what Obama is doing and they are incredulous. They are wondering if we are stupid or what. They happen to love Obama and think Bush was an idiot by the way.
But let me clue you in to what to expect. My girlfriend is currently expecting our first child. To see a doctor, she has to make an appointment weeks in advance. And THEY tell her which to go to if she wants them to pay for it. THEY also decide on what tests to run, if it is availalbe that day. And we have to work around the technicians schedule. She does not get to decide which hospital she goes to. THEY do. She has to go when THEY say to go. If she can't. Oh well.
Now another factoid. Private doctors here are on the rise. Why? Better treatment and service, but it comes at a tremendous price. Don't have the money. Oh, sorry. Can't help ya.
Remember Hilliarycare?? Remember the personal medical cards?? Remember, you had to go to the doctors they told you to??
Hell, even Medvedev said we were acting stupid to recklessly head down the path of socialism.
I hope to god you guys can defeat this. Ask Canada and Europe how that medical coverage is working for them. WAKE UP PLEASE.
And to the silly lady who keeps bringing up the Senate/House insurance plan. DO you REALLY think THAT is the kind of treatment YOU are going to get. There is a reason they have a rule that says the laws they create do not apply to them.

Mary Bonnell| 6.15.09 @ 2:06PM

The total destruction of the United States of America is Barrack Hussein Obama's ultimate goal. If he truly wants to improve (restore) the historic benefits of the greatest medical system the world has ever known, he will hog tie about 3/4's of the nation's 'tort' lawyers. Who are no longer professionals, but a feeding frenzy of immoral greed.

Losingfaithinmycountrymen| 6.15.09 @ 11:07PM

I too would like to know why lynn keeps grouping house/senate healthcare with medicare...only a fool would believe they are equal...that's the big problem...idealism without realism is negligent and ignorant...these people are why Obama got elected in the first place...Never in the history of time has something come from nothing (spending money that does not exist)or is anything truly "free" but suddenly Obama's teleprompter says it's possible and everyone just excepts it to be truth...free healthcare for all American's, it will only cost you your life oh and on occassion the lives of your loved ones.

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