The American Spectator : Israel Readies Iran Takeout

Text Size

Israel Readies Iran Takeout

By George H. Wittman on 1.30.09 @ 6:07AM

It’s only a matter of time, as Iran nears completion of its nuclear weapons construction.

There is no question among intelligence analysts that Iran is proceeding with the construction of nuclear weapons. The only real question remaining concerns the character of its intention to use the weapons.

Ultimately Iran seeks to be the determinant power in the region. Having the sole nuclear weapon capability in the Middle East — other than Israel — would give Iran the status it seeks. This weaponry combined with its already considerable political influence even in majority Sunni areas would raise Tehran to new levels of leverage among its neighbors.

The Persian nuclear weapon carries an implicit threat against Israel, but it also has a perceived defensive component. A nuclear-armed Iran would have the ability to threaten Gulf oil production, thus countering any American military efforts to coerce current or future regimes in Tehran.

Pakistan’s nuclear missiles threaten only India and are thus perceived of no real threat to nearby Middle Eastern countries. A similar Persian Shia weapon would make Iran predominant among the entire community of mostly Arab Sunnis that make up the Islamic Near East. This new political status would challenge the historical dominance of this regional Arab majority — something the Persian Shia have been seeking for centuries.

All this exists aside from any threat that may be implied against the State of Israel whose destruction as a rallying point for Moslems of all hues is often the only thing that unifies Islamic nations. Iran doesn’t need to attack Israel; all it has to do is be armed in such a manner as to make such an attack plausible.

The driving force behind Iranian ambitions in the nuclear field is not the usual suspect, President Ahmadinejad. He is merely a loyal puppet for the truly powerful supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. Khamenei has had an intense interest and involvement in Iranian military affairs for the last thirty years. He was the late Ayatollah Khomeini’s representative at the Defense Ministry in the 1979 interim government and later went on to be deputy defense minister.

Even though both Rafsanjani and Khatami encouraged nuclear development during their terms in power as president, Khamenei’s ascension to the post of supreme leader in 1989 made concrete the national commitment to develop the full nuclear fuel cycle and eventually make Iran’s nuclear armament possible.

Israel, for its part, believes it cannot afford to have a nuclear armed, radically governed Iran as a perpetual danger to its existence. It calculates that it must destroy Iran’s ability to wage nuclear war. There is nothing to negotiate in this regard except perhaps the timing of the Israeli action. The Israelis have shown a predilection for action over threat of action.

For Ayatollah Khamenei, the more his government can involve Washington in discussion/negotiations on the subject of Iran’s nuclearization, the greater the lead time will be provided for weapon development. This is true whether or not Ahmadinejad, Rafsanjani, Khatami or any other individual is president. The lessons of manipulating delay have been well learned from North Korea.

The time element, however, for accomplishing Iran’s task of nuclear weapon development appears now to be a year or less. This is the projection on which the Israeli Defense Ministry is basing its plans. Tehran is fully knowledgeable of this and it is thus extremely important for the Iranians to get the Obama administration into talks as soon as possible in order to put deterrent pressure on the Israelis.

Jane’s Defense Weekly has already reported that it expects the less-advanced American “bunker busting” bombs (GPU-27, 28) have already been delivered to Israel. The original request, nearly two years ago to over-fly Iraq to bomb Iran’s nuclear facilities, was turned down by Washington. All that did was to send the Israeli Defense Ministry back to its drawing boards for alternate attack routes and methods.

Ali Khamenei knows the Israeli attack on Gaza also carried and important warning for Iran that Israel will not wait to seek external approval of what its considers necessary military action. The only questions left, therefore, are how and when the Israelis will choose to interdict Iranian nuclear weapon development.

To ensure that there will be no Israeli preemptive bombing of Iranian nuclear weapon sites in the next 12-18 months, there must be a clear action by Ayatollah Ali Khamenei halting the creation of the Persian bomb. President Barack Obama has a very tight window within which to work his much heralded negotiating magic; otherwise a new Middle East conflagration will begin — and soon.

topics:
Iran, Israel, Nuclear Weapons, Middle East

About the Author

George H. Wittman writes a weekly column on international affairs for The American Spectator online. He was the founding chairman of the National Institute for Public Policy.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (153) | Leave a comment Leave a comment

Pecos Pete| 1.30.09 @ 7:28AM

Hope and Change will be coming to Iran.

S.L. Toddard| 1.30.09 @ 8:08AM

"There is no question among intelligence analysts that Iran is proceeding with the construction of nuclear weapons."

There is "no question," eh? It is unanimous? What is the source for that conclusion? The last unanimous opinion officially released by the intelligence community that I know of was this:

"We judge with high confidence that in fall 2003, Tehran halted its nuclear weapons program"
- The 2007 National Intelligence Estimate, the consensus opinion of all 16 U.S. intelligence agencies
http://www.dni.gov/press_releases/20071203_release.pdf

Has there been an NIE on Iran since? I could very well be missing something.

Not to mention that the August 07 IAEA report, the Nov 07 IAEA report, the Feb 08 IAEA report, the May 08 IAEA report, and the Sept 08 IAEA report all conclude that there is no evidence to suggest that Iran is developing nuclear weapons.

Grey Burkhart | 1.30.09 @ 8:50AM

George Wittman has told it the way it is and the way it will be, unless President Obama and Secretary of State Clinton end thirty years of fruitless diplomacy and simply destroy Iran's nuclear weapons infrastructure. The military option is neither terrible nor difficult, would not require an invasion, and needn't result in a massive number of innocent casualties. The way it could be done and the target set, believe it or not, are outlined in a novel named IRAN COVENANT by Chet Nagle . While Secretary Clinton and the President engage Tehran in diplomacy that will mirror the uselessness of the old DMZ and current "denuclearization" talks with North Korea, Ahmadinejad will gleefully continue enriching uranium and building bombs. As Wittman notes, sometime this year Israel will likely try to do the job for us, but we will get the blame whether they succeed or not. Shouldn't we do what is necessary to ensure success?

Mike M| 1.30.09 @ 8:58AM

For the last year we've been flooded with speculation of when, not if, Israel will attack Iran. Last summer it was imminent. the past October it will happen after the election as to not "influence" the US election. In November it would take place during the waning hours of the Bush administration. By New Year's the planes were on the tarmac and being armed. Now the above story. I am afraid, with Barry as our fearless president, It just won't happen at all.

Dimitrijevic | 1.30.09 @ 9:34AM

Israel and Iran do not share a border. Exactly what route would Israeli planes fly in order to arrive over Iran? They would have to cross through third-party airspace or fly round the Arabian peninsula. The Americans and the Iraqis have already told Israel that Iraqi airspace is off limits. Would the Israelis fly to Iran:

Via Syria/Turkey? Not likely. The Syrians have their own air defences. Fully fuelled aircraft with a maximum war load cannot maneuver well against even rudimentary air defences without dropping their cargos. The Israelis would have to fly across the full length of Syria, not a five minute dash over the border then a five minute dash back to base. In any case, if aircraft flew over Syria heading toward Iran the Syrians would of course alert the Iranians. That would enable the latter to take appropriate measures.

Via Turkey? Again not likely. The Israelis are very unpopular in Turkey at the moment due to their attack on the Gaza Ghetto. Violation of Turkish airspace, especially to mount an attack on Iran would create a probable permanent discontinuation of diplomatic relations between Israel and Turkey.

Via Saudi Arabia? Possible but that would leave the Saudi oilfields and other Saudi assets vulnerable to Iranian attack in retaliation. That could create an unacceptable disruption in the flow of oil to the world, the USA in particular.

The Americans would thus be forced into direct war with Iran in order to protect vital American assets and resources in the region.

Regardless of the rhetoric coming from Washington the Americans do not want to be dragged into a war with Iran especially to finish a fight the Israelis start but cannot finish themselves. That would jeopardise the entire American adventure in Iraq -- the Iranians would immediately commence destabilisation of that country after an attack on Iran. The Americans have almost certainly made this clear to the Israelis.

Via the Red Sea and round the Arabian Peninsula? Virtually out of the question. That's a 5000 km flight one way to the Iranian coast.

If the Israelis intend on attacking Iran in force they had better hurry up and build or buy an aircraft carier. Or two or three.

S.L. Toddard| 1.30.09 @ 9:35AM

It's amazing how people who mistakenly call themselves "conservative" yearn so deeply for a state of constant, never-ending war. That radical militarism is un-conservative is self-evident. And this irrational, fanatical attachment to a foreign nation reeks of disloyalty.

Can anyone here describe any way in which American security, in which the tranquility that is our birthright, is *enhanced* by our one-sided support of this nation on the other side of the world? What justification is there to subsidize their wars against the Arabs? What American interest is served that is so profoundly significant, so important that it is worth making Israel's enemies - i.e. the whole of the Muslim world, on whom we depend for the very lifeblood of our society - *our* enemies?

frost| 1.30.09 @ 9:57AM

Pretty good analysis, Dimitri, but air refueling has been done before. That's a possibility. And SL ?? No thanks - - don't think I'd like you...

S.L. Toddard| 1.30.09 @ 10:06AM

"No thanks - - don't think I'd like you... "

That's neither here nor there. What does matter is that you cannot answer the following, and yet wish America to continue a policy which benefits a foreign country over America.

S.L. Toddard| 1.30.09 @ 10:07AM

^^^

Thomas| 1.30.09 @ 10:19AM

The only question yet remaining is when, not if, Israel will attack Iranian nuclear facilities and how they will do it. Mr. Wittman is correct when he says that virtually all of the major intelligence agencies are convinced that Iran is still actively engaged in nuclear fuel development for weapons purposes. The 2007 NIE is controversial because it contradicts previous NIE's that stated there was a possibility, to a strong likelihood, that Iran was engaged in the development of nuclear weapons. The sudden about face at the end of the Bush administration is puzzling, on its face. As to the AIEA reports, they simply state that the Agency has no direct evidence that any nuclear material is being used in weapons related tests. After all, there is no evidence that Israel has any home-made nuclear armaments, yet almost no one disputes the assertion that they exist. But all of this matters little to the Israelis. Iran is engaged in the enrichment of fissionable material that could be used in in weapons, her President has publicly called for the destruction of Israel and the Israelis are not going to depend upon the good will of that country for their survival.

There are several other reasons to suspect the purported good will and peacefulness of the Iranian leadership. In the last four years, the Iranians have vastly increased their military presence at the Straits of Hormuz. This includes "naval" assets and increased anti-shipping missile batteries. Coupled with that have been increased harassment of military shipping in the Straits and the Persian Gulf. In the last few months, Iran has moved troops and anti-shipping missile batteries into Eritrea near Bab-El-Mandeb [the strait between the Red Sea and the Arabian Sea]. This would allow them to close both the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf to shipping, at least for a little while. Iranian observers and scientists keep turning up in North Korea during nuclear and missile tests. North Korean nuclear instrumentation , and possibly nuclear material, turns up in Syria, a close ally [almost a client state] of Iran. Now the Russians are providing the Iranians with nuclear technology and advanced anti-aircraft missile systems. Iran continues to fund and equip Hamas and Hezbollah as well as regional and worldwide Islamic terrorism. Hardly sound like good neighbors, do they.

Now, the Israelis have a significant problem. They were depending upon the Bush administration to allow them overflight privileges in Iraq. That did not happen. The other air routes are dicey, at best, but not impassible. Unfortunately, without US aid and support, Israel can use an attack on Iran only as a last resort. And the only ones who can decide when it is time to use this last resort are the Israelis.

I believe that I may have answered some of Mr. Toddard's questions about American security interests with regard to current and previous Iranian actions. Now one last clarification concerning the Muslim Arab world. Harken back to medieval Europe where the Church held an immense amount of secular power. That is the situation in the Muslim middle east today. All modern Muslim countries in the region are heavily influenced, if not actually controlled by coalitions of Muslim clerics, some of them extremely radical and all of them anti-American. America has not gone out of its way to make any Muslim country "our" enemy. We have supported the UN mandate that created the state of Israel in 1948. We have attempted several times in the last forty years to broker peace between the Israelis and Arabs. We have supported both Israel and the Arab League in finding a solution to their common problem. We have been publicly critical of many Israeli stances in the past and supportive of Arab claims and concerns. hardly a one-sided support of anyone in this situation.

Iran, as it presently exists, is dangerous. And Israel and the rest of the world know it.

Dimitrijevic | 1.30.09 @ 10:27AM

Thanks frost. The Israelis are short on aerial tanker capability. Their request for new, American K-767s was recently turned down by the Pentagon. Tanker aircraft of whatever type are lumbering, easy targets, so if the Israelis did intend on in-flight refuelling I would suggest the only plausible plan would be to refuel in international airspace over the Red Sea/Gulf of Aden then fly round the Arabian Peninsula. They wouldn't want to refuel over say Syria or Turkey. Maybe Saudi, but that would create problems for the Saudis as mentioned above. A 5000 km flight one way over international waters, in the general direction of the Iranian coast involving multiple squadrons of aircraft would be difficult to keep secret. The Iranians have radar-equipped vessels cruising well outside of their own territorial waters.

Then there's the return flight home. The Israelis would quite likely be pursued after completion of the mission and refuelling under threat of combat leaves both tankers and fighter bombers vulnerable.

I suppose it could all be attempted in extreme desperation but I view the entire scenario as unlikely from a logistical and tactical standpoint.

blackelkspeaks| 1.30.09 @ 10:27AM

If the Israelis are truly desparate to destroy the nuclear facilities in Iran that threaten their very existence, then why not expect that they will take the shortest route to their targets. That is, fly directly over Iraqi air space. What would the US do if this occurs; shoot down the Israeli aircraft? Not likely. Would the Iraqis shoot them down? They might attempt to, but the history of Israeli success against Moslem-led air forces is stellar.

If you think the market meltdown last year was big, wait until Armageddon starts!

daboss| 1.30.09 @ 10:32AM

The Muslim world has always been at war with the west. Their religion is really a mask for an entire schema of government. They collaborated with the Nazis and currently some states scheme with the fascists Russia and China.

They have been at war with western ideals for centuries (remember the Barbary pirates) - before Israel existed. They are at war nearly everywhere in the world.

The lines are drawn. Islam with the fascists and the democracy’s with the west. Either the US stands with the democracies or we will suffer the same fate of conquest – like Hispaniola in 711. Pretty sure the evil US and Israel did not exist back then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquests

I for one would not like to live under Sharia law - S.L. Toddard – maybe you would (or do now?).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia_law

S.L. Toddard| 1.30.09 @ 10:36AM

"I believe that I may have answered some of Mr. Toddard's questions about American security interests with regard to current and previous Iranian actions"

I didn't ask any questions about American security interests with regard to Iranian actions. You didn't answer my questions at all. You have given circumstantial evidence that may or may not point to Iran attempting to develop nuclear weapons. You have attempted to justify *Israeli* action against Iran. But you have provided no strategic justification for America continuing to underwrite Israel's military against their muslim neighbors. You have not explained how doing so *enhances* American security.

And the notion that we do not favor Israel in the Israeli/Arab conflict is patently absurd. As is the notion that our one-sided support of Israel does not earn us the hatred of the muslim world, which imperils our security.

So I ask again: how is American security *enhanced* by our one-sided support of this nation on the other side of the world? What justification is there to subsidize their wars against the Arabs? What American interest is served that is so profoundly significant, so important that it is worth making Israel's enemies - i.e. the whole of the Muslim world, on whom we depend for the very lifeblood of our society - *our* enemies *by continuing to support Israel militarily and economically*?

Is it not a fact that our support of Israel can no longer be justified strategically?

Thomas| 1.30.09 @ 10:54AM

S.L.,

Turn about is fair play. Can the "patently absurd" B.S. and state the specifics for your statement that the US supports only Israel in the situation in the Middle East. And don't forget such things as the camp David accords, please.

As for the possibility that Iran can, and would, close both the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf to shipping, that sounds like a pretty solid area of American Security interest.

As to justifying our support of Israel as being strategically necessary, of course it is. We support Israel's right to exist as it was agreed to by the United Nations. We also agree that the Palestinians deserve a land of their own, as it was agreed to by the United Nations in 1948. The people who do not agree with this are the Arab nations and Iran, both of whom have publicly called for the Israelis to thrown back into the sea.

Just a point of interest. Consult the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine (1947) that provided for the creation of both Israel and the Palestinian state. It is very interesting and may enlighten you as to the history of the problems between Israel and the Arab world. And why the US seeks to guarrantee the sovereignty of the State of Israel.

S.L. Toddard| 1.30.09 @ 10:57AM

"As to justifying our support of Israel as being strategically necessary, of course it is."

How? What way is American security *enhanced* by our military support of Israel, which earns us the hatred of the Arab world?

Thomas| 1.30.09 @ 10:59AM

S.L.

I'm still waiting for your specifics as requested in the previous post. You can't answer a question with a question.

Trackback| 1.30.09 @ 11:03AM

The American Spectator : Israel Readies Iran Takeout, on Iran Reviews, links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

[Source: The American Spectator] quoted: Regardless of the rhetoric coming from Washington the Americans do not want to be dragged into a war with Iran especially to finish a fight the Israelis start but cannot finish themselves. That would jeopardise the entire American adventure in Iraq -- the Iranians would immediately commence destabilisation of that country after an attack on Iran.

S.L. Toddard| 1.30.09 @ 11:05AM

"I'm still waiting for your specifics as requested in the previous post. You can't answer a question with a question."

And I'm still waiting for yours to the question I asked in my second post and repeated above:

What way is American security *enhanced* by our military support of Israel, which earns us the hatred of the Arab world?

Thomas| 1.30.09 @ 11:12AM

The same way in which US security has been enhanced throughout history, by supporting the rule of law. The Saudis know that we will support their right to exist, as do the Egyptians, the Syrians, the Jordanians, the Yemenites, etc. All we require is for these countries to honor the rule of law and not attack their neighbors except in self defense. Oh, by the way, everybody else in the whole wide world "hates" the U.S.; until they need us to save their butts.

Your turn.

S.L. Toddard| 1.30.09 @ 11:27AM

"The same way in which US security has been enhanced throughout history, by supporting the rule of law. The Saudis know that we will support their right to exist, as do the Egyptians, the Syrians, the Jordanians, the Yemenites, etc. All we require is for these countries to honor the rule of law and not attack their neighbors except in self defense. Oh, by the way, everybody else in the whole wide world "hates" the U.S.; until they need us to save their butts.

Your turn. "

Are you drunk? I don't know what question you're responding to but it sure isn't mine. You have not submitted ANY way in which American security is enhanced by our military support of Israel. None.

Here - I will give an example of an argument to the contrary: American financial and military support of Israel imperils American security by inflaming the hatred of the Arab world against us, and by being a useful tool in the recruitment of terrorists. Every time Israel flies American jets to drop American bombs on Arab civilians the Arab world understandably blames America in part for those deaths. Arabs the world over, who hate Israel for their treatment of the Palestinians, also blame America because we subsidize that treatment.

If there is an argument to contradict this one I would like to hear it.

2Anglico| 1.30.09 @ 11:27AM

NIE's (the e stands for ESTIMATE) contain many subjects, like WMD in Iraq for instance. It is interesting how sl quotes one (Iran just gave it up)as gospel. Does he believe the NIE used to "lie us into war" was gospel too?
sl's "know it all" attitude does not lend itself to first person discussion.

daboss| 1.30.09 @ 11:29AM

S.L. Toddard –

What way is American security *enhanced* by our military support of Israel, which earns us the hatred of the Arab world?
Let me try this again:

“which earns us the hatred of the Arab world? “ - the Arab world hates the west and has been at war with the freedom loving people (liberal democracies) prior to the US or Israel’s founding. So the hatred is there and has always been – it’s just easy to blame the US now because we are a super power. If it were not us, then it would be someone else. Check your history.

“What way is American security *enhanced* by our military support of Israel” - IMHO it is important to have democracies in the world.

Israel is a deterrent to the Islam community – keeping them from expanding their empire and subjugating citizens throughout the area. Once the “Persian” empire is re-established, they will move on to greater conquest. Again, check your history. If this happens, the US would have to fight a substantial war on the scale of WWI/II – but this time with a nuclear armed fanatical government who are not afraid to use the bomb.

Plus if Russia and Iran collaborate (which they are doing now), we now have a greater problem because we have a very close border with Russia. In the words of Tina Fey “I can see Russia from my house”.

That should concern the US as well.
So keeping Israel safe keeps the Islamic fascists at bay – just like keeping South Korea safe keeps the north from invading (at least for now). Which also keeps Japan safe … sounds like a old cold war domino theory, but I believe it does apply.

Nuff said?

Thomas| 1.30.09 @ 11:39AM

I think that we have about exhausted the Israel discussion.

I am afraid that what we have here is a failure to communicate.

Bye.

S.L. Toddard| 1.30.09 @ 12:10PM

"the Arab world hates the west and has been at war with the freedom loving people (liberal democracies) prior to the US or Israel’s founding. So the hatred is there and has always been"

The Arab world has always been at war with the U.S.? What wars did the Arab world wage against America before the founding of Israel?

"Israel is a deterrent to the Islam community – keeping them from expanding their empire and subjugating citizens throughout the area"

Who is "they"? What "empire"? You believe that our support of Israel is justified because it prevents the hypothetical expansion of an empire that does not exist? That, you believe, is sound footing on which to base US foreign policy?

Pro-conservative| 1.30.09 @ 12:22PM

S.L. Toddard - also known as Justin Raimondo - is a persistant anti-Israel commentator eager to throw Israel, our ally, to the wolves.

Tom Smith| 1.30.09 @ 12:45PM

S.L. Toddard, you seem to be from the Vichy-wing of the Republican Party. It must be lonely.

Ultimate Conserv| 1.30.09 @ 12:47PM

Tom, S. L.Toddard tries to hijack every editorial here with his wacky ideas. He claims he's a conservative, but I think he's a troll from DU.

Tom Smith| 1.30.09 @ 12:47PM

Thanks, UC, I was afraid his ilk were normal here.

Pro-Conservative| 1.30.09 @ 12:53PM

Tom Smith, this is who we're dealing with even if he says he's S. L.Toddard.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Raimondo

WE ARE 5 TO-MIDNIGHT| 1.30.09 @ 1:01PM

America & Israel is on a death wish, what is it in the Middle East that facinates you all so much.
Has it ever occured to anyone that the people in the Middle East would like to live in peace much the same as most Americans that are COMPOS MENTIS.

Give the people in the Middle East a break to live their own lives, they never invited Israel to come and live in the Middle East if they are RACIALIST they don't have to live there America is a big place and CANADA. If you hate Arabs leave their country and find somewhere else to live there is only 20.000 People living in Israel and most of them only went there to get free land, that they stole from the Palestinians.

The Iranians are not even Arabs they are PERSIANS, they are a different race, if Israel had a chance of getting on with anyone it would be the PERSIANS because they hate Arabs because they are a bunch of NAZIS, but why not try to live with the Iranians they are not Arabs. There are lots of JEWS living in IRAN many for thousans of years.

You people want to tune into PRESS TV on the internet, and learn some culture. The Irainians are lovely people, very cultured, they speak FARCI, not arabic, as I said they are not Arabs.

I would love to visit Persia, what is called Iran today, why do you people want to kill every thing you don't understand.

Iran does not have Nuclear WMD, the same as Iraq never had WMD.

You people are eventually going to become the laughing stock of the world. In Iraq you killed a guy called Saddam Hussien, now you have a President called Barack Hussien Obama, you had a guy called Osama Bin Layden, do you know what Bin means it means son of, Laden. Did you lot also know that Bin Laden was working under George Bush father when he was head of the CIA?.
Did you also know that, KARAZI of Afganastan was also a working at for the CIA under George BUSH father. Did you also know that KARAZI has a brother who is a war lord whose main funtion is Drug trafficking.

How many people in America knows SADDAM was funded by the CIA to over throw the Government of Iraq, which America ensured SADDAM became leader.

Does anyone know that Iran was the only DEMOCRATIC country in the whole of the Middle East in 1953 America over turn the elected Government to put in the shah a DICTATOR, under that dictator several Americans were Kidnapped and held hostage, this is after America shot down a passenger JET killing over 200 people.

I can tell any one in America that Obama is a well educated man he is no George W Bush, so if he santioned war against Iran, he would show himself not to be incharge but a puppet of the Zionist. Because no smart person would make that move. The reason is simple, America is at war with Afganistan, the war will spread into Pakistan, alongside you have Afganistan in the middle, Iran and Pakistan on either side. The Americans would be slaughtered in Afganistan because America would be attacked on two fronts.

Then there is the question of another unprovoked war, started by the Zionist NAZIS, plus the GAZA problem, how long would it be before Turkey joined in while The Israelis are attacking Iran the Turks would swoop in on Israel, none of Israels neighbours would be interested, so it would force the Americans to be in a WAR on three fronts. Then who else has the Americans attacked in recent times or attacks funded by them to encourage the Israelis to attack them. It would force a WORLD WAR because if the Europeans got involved it would be a world WAR and Russia would engage with America it would become a Nuclear Stand off.

Who ever in Israel that has this ill conceived ideas remember this is not Lebanon with no BOMBS, or the GAZA strip with a bunch of defenceless people who has been imprissoned for 60 years. Or Syria. The world is in a mess as it is and the vast majority of people on planet earth thinks it's caused by stupid Americans. There is not that many friends left out there. Obama is on his honeymoon, I would not advise him to make stupid decisions, because people expect him to know better. America needs to sort out it's economy, leave the wars alone, try peace instead.

Louis Jenkins| 1.30.09 @ 1:02PM

"I (God) will bless those who bless you (Israel) and will curse those who curse you"

(Gen 12:3)

Israel is a people| 1.30.09 @ 1:12PM

God will bless those who bless you, tell me what happend to the American economy, bankrupt out there with it's begging bown, borrowing from a communist country. For God sake grow up and stop reading fantasy you don't understand. Those Zionist has stolen all Americans owned spy on you and messes up your Banking system, and secretly laugh at you, as does the rest of the whole of Europe.

Israel is not a place it's a people and one it's not those people. They have deceived the world.

jaywhite| 1.30.09 @ 2:47PM

"Israel is a people| 1.30.09 @ 1:12PM
God will bless those who bless you, tell me what happend to the American economy, bankrupt out there with it's begging bown, borrowing from a communist country. For God sake grow up and stop reading fantasy you don't understand. Those Zionist has stolen all Americans owned spy on you and messes up your Banking system, and secretly laugh at you, as does the rest of the whole of Europe. "

Israel is a People: Well, at least you admit your hatred of Israel is really hatred of the "people" as in Jewish people. Jews have magical powers. Are non-Jewish Americans so helpless, that they actually couldn't prevent the terrible Jews from "steal(ing) everything you own" . If I were Jewish, I would be asking "Where is my share of all American wealth that we have stolen from the totally helpless non Jewish Americans"? Do you know what an idiot you sound like.

Bill Carson| 1.30.09 @ 2:51PM

This is the opportunity for the left's little messiah to destroy the world by trying to stop Israel. The American people decided in Nov, 2008 that they want short term peace at any price and wouldn't spend two seconds thinking about the long term risk of having a weak guy like Obama at the helm.

There will be hell to pay for everyone.

Tim| 1.30.09 @ 3:01PM

To my Israel Brothers and Sisters.

As a non Jew, I say this:

"Be strong and of good courage"

May the wind be always at your back and may God guide you to victory....in your quest to rid Iran of its Nukes and thus eliminating a potential major future world catasthrophe at the hands of Iran's rougue ruler.

jaywhite| 1.30.09 @ 3:04PM

"Here - I will give an example of an argument to the contrary: American financial and military support of Israel imperils American security by inflaming the hatred of the Arab world against us, and by being a useful tool in the recruitment of terrorists. Every time Israel flies American jets to drop American bombs on Arab civilians the Arab world understandably blames America in part for those deaths. Arabs the world over, who hate Israel for their treatment of the Palestinians, also blame America because we subsidize that treatment. If there is an argument to contradict this one I would like to hear it. "

Here is the argument you asked for :1. The first item Bin Laden mentioned after 9/11 referred to the beginning of the modern Turkish state in I believe 1922 (Bin Laden wants the elimination of any Moslem secular state). Weren't Israeli "spys" the cause of that??. As for hatred of the US because "American Planes" drop bombs on
Arab "civilians" (i.e. the cowardly terrorists who dress as civilians and hide in schools and hospitals). In the mid 1980's, Israel developed prototypes of the Lavi jet fighter. It was good enough to form part of the top Chinese Jet fighter the J-10. All the "aid" to Israel that is "bankrupting" the US, is not charity. It is to have control and influence in the Middle East. Israel could makes their own fighter jets. Israel's "treatment" of the so-called "Palestinians" who were never recognized as a people until it became useful for the Arab dictatorships, is very kind, compared to what treatment they should have received for blowing up children at birthday parties with nail bombs coating in anti-coagulant.
The US is there because it shows countries like Saudi Arabia, that only US can control Israel's efforts at self defense.

S.L. Toddard| 1.30.09 @ 3:05PM

"S.L. Toddard, you seem to be from the Vichy-wing of the Republican Party. It must be lonely."

I'm from the wing that opposes the policies that have turned the Republican party into a powerless, impotent laughingstock. A refuge for suckers, flag-waving hillbillies and gullible sycophants. We opposed the policies that lost America the respect and envy of the world. I'm from the wing that opposed the unmitigated, all-encompassing failure that was the George W Bush presidency. We opposed the Iraq War. We opposed the economic policies of the GOP that destroyed America’s economy and brought the US to economic ruin.

And we were right about all of it, as the entire world now knows, and as history is sure to demonstrate.

And yes, it is lonely being right in the Republican party. And conservative. But it is better than being a failure and a joke.

megapotamus| 1.30.09 @ 3:12PM

I'm glad to see a vigorous Zionist defence to the usual carpers and Buchananites. It might well be that the support of Israel "costs" us more than it "pays" though overall I don't think so but what we are buying with our aid etc is NOT a proxy war fought for us by the jews against the arabs but the revers. Since Nixon at least what we have "bought" if that is the term, is Israeli restraint from the norms of self-defense that all other nations enjoy and exercise and not infrequently abuse. The dialectic is in full flower as the arab-supporting Obamists find that, should they cast Israel adrift as the arabs desire the result, predictably, is a more bellicose Israel. I am fully for a more bellicose Israel so in that area I can say that Obama does truly bring Change I can Believe in.

megapotamus| 1.30.09 @ 3:15PM

And no, though circumsized I am not jewish. Or christian for that matter, not that there is anything wrong with that.

S.L. Toddard| 1.30.09 @ 3:16PM

“Here is the argument you asked for :1. The first item Bin Laden mentioned after 9/11 referred to the beginning of the modern Turkish state in I believe 1922 (Bin Laden wants the elimination of any Moslem secular state). Weren't Israeli "spys" the cause of that??.”

What? I don’t even know what these sentences are supposed to mean. Are you speaking in code?

“As for hatred of the US because "American Planes" drop bombs on
Arab "civilians" (i.e. the cowardly terrorists who dress as civilians and hide in schools and hospitals). In the mid 1980's, Israel developed prototypes of the Lavi jet fighter. It was good enough to form part of the top Chinese Jet fighter the J-10.”

That’s… nice? I’m not sure what it has to do with anything though. Israelis still fly American jets to drop American bombs and buy machine guns and bullets and bulldozers and build walls with American money, and Arab fanatics know this and hold us responsible. What strategic advantage do we get that offsets the enmity of the Arab world?

“All the "aid" to Israel that is "bankrupting" the US, is not charity. It is to have control and influence in the Middle East.”

That is my point. It is HURTING American influence in the Middle East.

“The US is there because it shows countries like Saudi Arabia, that only US can control Israel's efforts at self defense.”

Um… okay.

Anyway, can anyone here describe any way in which American security, in which the tranquility that is our birthright, is *enhanced* by our support of Israel? What justification is there to subsidize their wars against the Arabs? What American interest is served that is so profoundly significant, so important that it is worth making Israel's enemies - i.e. the whole of the Muslim world, on whom we depend for the very lifeblood of our society - *our* enemies?

WSL| 1.30.09 @ 3:17PM

I'm pretty sure Iran dreams of having an excuse to go to war with Israel. They like most people were outraged by the massacre in Gaza and would relish the chance.

S.L. Toddard| 1.30.09 @ 3:38PM

"The dialectic is in full flower as the arab-supporting Obamists find that, should they cast Israel adrift as the arabs desire the result, predictably, is a more bellicose Israel"

I doubt that very much. With out America at its back, arming it to the teeth and up-ending any balance of power in the region, Israel would find it expedient to deal more even-handedly with her neighbors, to end expansion into the West Bank and to cut what remains of Palestine adrift.

That being said, even if your conclusion were true it bears not at all on American policy. None of the nations who Israel considers enemies pose any threat to the U.S. I see no reason whatsoever to continue to embroil ourselves in the never-ending conflicts in the region, unless it is to keep us in a constant state of war so as to keep money flowing into the coffers of multinational corporate war-profiteers.

Michael L. Hauschild| 1.30.09 @ 4:20PM

Anybody remember the Doolittle Raid? Why would they have to fly back?

Louis Jenkins| 1.30.09 @ 4:22PM

The Jewish state was established by a UN mandate in the late 1940s with no consideration to the Palestinians who lived there. Other than that, the UN has rendered little support to the Jews. The US, a full player in that mandate, is the only nation to live up to the situation, and the only one to ante up to that purpose. All others have turned their back to Israel.

Can we pretend that the Holocaust (Jewish genocide) never happened? 9-11 million Jews were gased, shot if they were lucky, their women used as concubines, or were worked and starved to death by the Nazis. Can we pretend that pogroms have never occured? All thru the ages various populations and nations have blamed "it on the Jews" for some odd reason or another. The kids have got the chicken pox, my horse died, the black death has killed off the population. I know, I know! Let's go out and kill some Jews.

Medevial crusades passed thru Jewish towns or neighborhoods-well we know what happened there. When the wondering tribes of Israel first arrived at the Promised Land God commanded them to wipe the land clean of its occupants. They didn't, which displeased God, and they have been living with consequences of disobediance to His word.

If Israel is unable to defend itself are we so blind to see that pogroms and holocausts will not re-occur? Do the Persians admit that there was a holocaust? Or that they will not launch the big one when it becomes available? When your country is a scant 25 miles wide what are your military options? Hamas continually lobs missles over the border and at any moment your home can become your coffin? Do you just sit on your hands and endure? Yet the world and the UN condemns Israel for over reaction. Look at history and perhaps you'll understand the Israeli attitude.

No small wonder the Israelis say "Never Again." Fantasy or facts? Call it what you will!!

elhombrelibre| 1.30.09 @ 4:23PM

S.L. Toddard, what is the winning wing of the Republican Party that you are a member of? Who are its leaders? Would you help Israel in any material way?

Pro Conservative| 1.30.09 @ 4:41PM

S. L. Toddard,

Do you approve of suicide bombers, targeting of civilians by Hezbollah and Hamas, and Islamic terrorism in your desires to see Israel destroyed?

Warrior| 1.30.09 @ 4:45PM

Hey, Toddard, what part of Islamic terror do you not understand?

Israel is a people| 1.30.09 @ 5:04PM

For every person that lives in Israel each person gets 15.500 USD anually, theter are poor Americans that don't even have health care. There was a woman an American with CANCER who could not get health care in America.

Americans are vonerable, they don't have any idea of what going on in America let alone the rest of the world.

There are people who are living on food hand outs in America, while the American Government would prefer to give the NATIONS TAX dollars to a group of phonies who claim to be Jewish where is their proof.

If they were Gods chosen people they would live in peace with their neighbours. They would love one another, they would be kind to others.

Since 1948 these criminals have imprisoned 1.5 million people in GAZA in an open prison CONCENTRATION CAMP. People have to tunnel their way out to get food, oil an necessities to survive. The rest of the population is scattered all over the place thrown out of their own country.
And I am to believe these are Gods chosen people? if these are Gods chosen people can anyone imagine what would be like he would not be the just God we hear or read about would he?.

These are the same people who are such theives, that they have bankrupted countries in Europe over 109 times and had to be expelled out of all of Europe. The same way Christ had to turn them out of the Temple for using the Temple of God to collect money.

I am not one of your people, I am not Jewish and if I was I would speak the truth like the others Jews I know who are honest kind and Godly people. These people in Israel is neither Christian or Jewish. Their God is Money, and the worship of SATAN, they want to re build the Temple not to worship, but to go back to their PAGAN Gods to do human sacrifice in, the unfortunate to most is they do not know the quantity in which they are dealing.

These people believe in the Protocol of Zion where they intend to use one race to kill another keep them fighting amongst each other while they plan to take over the world. They fill the heads of christians with foolishness, because they know no better, and see Gentiles as no more than wild animals.

They try to mind control the masses so they become no more that what ever they are told to think, any one who challenges them they claim they are antisemetic, when they are not semetic at all. They know the majority of Gentiles does not know the difference between ASHKENAZI who converted to calling themselves Jews when infact they are not. Most Gentiles don't know it's a lie, because most is confused by old and new TESTIMENT, confused by the bible most don't understand what it means, infact not even the bishops, or the preists teaches the bible in church because they can't explain it.

Priest are now homosexuals, because politicans says it's OK to win votes. Christianity is watered down, to where it's meaningless to the majority. Then there is the Christian fundamentalist who in America becomes MILLIONAIRS preaching something they themselves don't believe in, or truely understand.

But the Bible said many will come on the basis of my name, which is what Christ said in Matthew 24 if it's read fully. It also many are called but few are chosen. The Bible also spoke about the false prophets too, and many of these fundamentalist are nothing more than false prophets, that own private Jets, manshions, all as Christ said on the basis of his name. Some are married but are secret homosexuals, some claim to be Rabbi's but are intruth child molesters. Many are called but few are chosen.

Going back to these chosen people, or at least that is their claim, the question chosen by who? Christ had to cast them out of the Temple, for money laundering much the same as they do on Wall Street to this day. These people have always been money lenders, since the days of Christ our saviour. They have never changed and they are chosen by no one either God in heaven or when Christ was on earth. The only spirit that has chosen them is the angel of light, the enlighten one SATAN, all they do is about what is evil. One has only to look at what they are doing to the people of GAZA. They lie twist the truth, nothing they say can be believed, they are professional liars. They teach their kids to be money lenders from the age of five to steal lie and rob.

Louis Jenkins| 1.30.09 @ 5:13PM

Those imposters in Israel don't want any peace it is a way to get American to keep fighting losing their lives.

In the protocol of Zion they say for every one Zionist life lost 100 Gentiles must lose their lives, and true to their word they Killed 1.300 people 13 Israeli was killed, during the GAZA slaughter.
5.000 people left disabled, also in the protocol of Zion they also say they are allowed to steal from Gentiles, but Gentiles are not allowed to steal from them. If an Gentile is injured they are not allowed to help them they must die, that is why they will not allow humanitarian supplies into GAZA or medicin or food or shelter. If these people sounds like Gods chosen people I only have one thing to say, I feel sympathy for those who thinks it is true.

Dimitrijevic | 1.30.09 @ 5:28PM

Michael L. Hauschild -- 1.30.09 @ 4:20PM

Anybody remember the Doolittle Raid? Why would they have to fly back?

- - - - - - - -

It would not be absolutely necessary to have them fly back. But if the Israelis plan is to have their pilots ditch somewhere and rendez-vous with Israeli assets they had better have that plan very well configured. That's a dangerous and very poor neighborhood. The Iranians might offer say ten million dollars in exchange for every Israeli pilot turned over to their agents.

If the Israeli plan is to have one hundred or so of their pilots ditch at sea then be recovered by naval vessels (during a likely night-time operation) that would practically guarantee they'd lose a few, or more than a few. They would hope that any pilot they couldn't find would drown or somehow die at sea but the Israelis would have to take into consideration that one or a few may be recovered alive by the Iranians or people willing to do business with Iran.

S.L. Toddard| 1.30.09 @ 5:33PM

"S.L. Toddard, what is the winning wing of the Republican Party that you are a member of? Who are its leaders?"

Huh?

"Would you help Israel in any material way?"

Now? No. If it ever looked like they needed it we could always reassess. Right now they have by far the most powerful military in the Middle East and a nuclear arsenal. They are conquest-proof, and anyone who says otherwise is a paranoid hysteric. If ever it looked as though conquest were an actual possibility we could obviously step in at any time.

"Do you approve of suicide bombers, targeting of civilians by Hezbollah and Hamas, and Islamic terrorism in your desires to see Israel destroyed?"

^^ That's what I'm talking about. Those are the words of a shrill, paranoid hysteric. As though Israel would be "destroyed" if we stopped subsidizing its military. It's quite obviously a ridiculous notion. We have dumped so many billions of dollars into their coffers, we have armed them to the teeth, we have given more to Israel - far more - than to any Arab nation. We have given enough. Israel can and must stand on its own. After eight years of neoconservative rule our economy is a smoking ruin and our military is overextended. We cannot afford the government we have - we are in the red and running a massive debt. Anyone who claims that EVEN NOW we should continue filling Israel's coffers with the money WE need plainly value's Israel's well-being over America's. In other words, that person is a disloyal, unpatriotic *traitor*.

"Hey, Toddard, what part of Islamic terror do you not understand?"

I understand that one of the main issues Al Qaeda and such have with the US is that we underwrite Israel's wars and occupations. I understand that fact very well. I understand that they use this issue as a recruiting tool. I understand that every time a child is blown to pieces in Palestine Arabs lay part of that blame on America, quite correctly, I might add. And I understand that if we were to end our blind support of Israel it would extinguish a great source of hatred, it would remove one of the most potent recruiting tools Al Qaeda has, and it could go a long way towards repairing our relationship with the muslim world.

Besides, what have we* got to lose?

*by "we" I mean the United States, not Israel, which is a separate and distinct nation with wholly separate and conflicting interests

Louis Jenkins| 1.30.09 @ 5:43PM

The last post at 1713 hrs with my name is not mine. When one posts he should be bold enough to use his own name. As far as Gentiles/Christians go do we honestly believe that Islam will truly favor us over Jews in the grand scheme of their convoluted religion. Do we really think that the followers of Islam will consider one better than the other? Demitude, convert, or death! That choice has been around for a lot longer than Disraeli or Zionism. Now that's a real option to a subdued, conquered populace. We tend to ignore the Arab/Persian anti Jewish diatribes/policies, but enjoy focusing on those of Israel. We should have compassion, and do, for the Palestinians caught in crossfires, that is humane, but then the IDF doesn't hide behind women and children, in hospitals, or libraries. Now, do we want to discuss the Jewish bombing of the King David Hotel?

S.L. Toddard| 1.30.09 @ 5:46PM

"In the protocol of Zion they say..."

The protocol of Zion? Are you mad?

People, there is a rational, patriotic argument to be made against supporting the actions of the government of the nation-state of Israel, and against its support by America. It is NOT the same argument made by anti-semites who see conspiracies and sinister Jews behind everything. Please peddle that rubbish elsewhere. The problem is not Jews, it is war-hungry establishment elites both here and in Israel. It is not the Jewish people in general, it is the government of the nation-state of Israel, whose worst policies are *opposed vehemently* by many well-meaning and patriotic American and Israeli Jews. See the JStreet site or read Haaretz, which has far more objective coverage of the Israeli/Arab conflict than we get here (until recently, I should say, with the excellent work being done on 60 mins and by Bill Moyers).

Bigotry immediately makes a well-reasoned argument illegitimate. Bring that garbage to Stormfront and leave it there.

S.L. Toddard| 1.30.09 @ 5:51PM

"Now, do we want to discuss the Jewish bombing of the King David Hotel?"

I don't see what that will accomplish. I don't think anyone here is unaware that many of the founders of Israel were terrorists who targeted and slaughtered civilians. It's common knowledge and even the pro-Israel "Americans" here I'm sure are aware of that.

"As far as Gentiles/Christians go do we honestly believe that Islam will truly favor us over Jews in the grand scheme of their convoluted religion."

What was the Arab world's attitude towards America before the founding of Israel, before we began subsidizing their wars and occupations?

Defend yourselves| 1.30.09 @ 5:53PM

If Israel attack Iran, I hope they get a taste of their own medicin. And I hope the world sit back and look, if you start a war should be able to fight it. Let them lose their own lives, with a bit of luck we can then have a few years of peace.

Obama should send all his Israeli staff over to fight in Iran with a bit of luck none of them will return, treat them like the Canary in the coal mine.

It's time all Army and Airforce personel gets a vote on wars they are asked to fight in if it is to defend Israel, no let them defend them selves. Time to stop the blood letting for that bunch of SATANIC DEVIL worshipers. Leave them to the dogs. Let who ever they claim chose them fight for them, they are a worthless bunch trash.

Nick| 1.30.09 @ 6:07PM

Mr. Toddard,

You wrote: "With out America at its back, arming it to the teeth and up-ending any balance of power in the region, Israel would find it expedient to deal more even-handedly with her neighbors, to end expansion into the West Bank and to cut what remains of Palestine adrift."

For someone who constantly admonishes the rest of us that we have absolutely no interest in the Israeli/Arab conflict, you sure seem to have some strong opinions on the subject. Why do you care what Israel does in the West Bank? It's none of our business, right?

I would cut off all foriegn aid tomorrow if I could, by the way. I think Israel is big enough to stand on her own. But she has every right to defend herself.

Alan Brooks| 1.30.09 @ 6:19PM

JUSTIN RAIMONDO.
thanks, learning someone's name helps. SL Toddard sounds too fake-anglicized. Now if Justin R. is an aka, then discovering his birth name would be even better; but Raimando is pretty good start.

long posts by these phony-libs is good way to clutter up dialogue here, you've got to admit.

they win.

S.L. Toddard| 1.30.09 @ 6:23PM

"For someone who constantly admonishes the rest of us that we have absolutely no interest in the Israeli/Arab conflict, you sure seem to have some strong opinions on the subject. Why do you care what Israel does in the West Bank? It's none of our business, right?"

That's a fair question, and an astute one. First, I never meant to imply that no one should *care* what happens anywhere, only that America has no vital national interest being served by our "special relationship" with Israel, and that if the relationship does not enhance our security then it should end. That being said, I was merely pointing out there that ending our subsidizing of Israel's military would, in the long run
(in my opinion), have a stabilizing effect on the region, and I was pointing that out to counter the other gentleman's claim that without America's support Israel would be MORE bellicose, which I don't think makes any sense at all.

S.L. Toddard| 1.30.09 @ 6:31PM

"thanks, learning someone's name helps. SL Toddard sounds too fake-anglicized. Now if Justin R. is an aka, then discovering his birth name would be even better; but Raimando is pretty good start."

My god. You people don't know who Justin Raimondo is? Has it ever occurred to you that there are other conservative voices than those of the Kristol-Goldberg-McCarthy-Frum axis-of-idiocy variety? Good god almighty - this is like if some poor, ignorant liberal had no knowledge of mainstream conservative thought, heard someone denounce communism *on a message board* and in their ignorance accused that person of being William F Buckley. Justin Raimondo!

I take it as a compliment that anyone thinks I'm Justin Raimondo, but if you cared to look you'd find that I've posted in the comments section of other internet magazines to which he is a contributor. You'll also find he's quite busy with his own website and columns.

Haha

Nick| 1.30.09 @ 6:35PM

Mr. Toddard,

How many "conservatives" do you know quote 60 minutes, Bill 'DUI' Moyers, Ramsey Clark, Slate, CNN, the Boston Globe, or Baathist thugs and newspapers. How long before you use Olberman-child, Wesley Crusher- I mean Rachel Madcow, Matth-spews, or the daily worker as a source? Or have you already?

Why don't you just admit you're a libertarian, i. e. libertine, who will quote ANYONE who agrees with you to try to bolster your weak arguments.

S.L. Toddard| 1.30.09 @ 6:42PM

"How many "conservatives" do you know quote 60 minutes, Bill 'DUI' Moyers, Ramsey Clark, Slate, CNN, the Boston Globe, or Baathist thugs and newspapers. How long before you use Olberman-child, Wesley Crusher- I mean Rachel Madcow, Matth-spews, or the daily worker as a source? Or have you already?"

What is a "conservative", Nick? How are YOU "conservative"? Do you understand the difference between a conservative and a libertarian, or between a conservative and a neoconservative?

S.L. Toddard| 1.30.09 @ 6:43PM

"Wesley Crusher" - oh my god. That is actually funny. She does look like Wesley "The Boy" Crusher!

S.L. Toddard| 1.30.09 @ 7:15PM

Also, it just struck me - people like you only read news from neoconservative sources? That really is astounding. No wonder you're all so terrified and hysterical all the time, thinking Israel is about to be nuked and that America is facing an "existential" threat.

Good heavens that really does explain A LOT. It would be impossible to read nothing but NRO and Commentary and Am Spec and listen to nothing but Limbaugh and Coulter and NOT be a basket-case. Cherry-picking the news so it always agrees with your worldview, always tells you what you want to hear, and never tells you anything you don't. Anything that contradicts what one has been told to think immediately goes on the Bad List, the Loony-Lefties List, which of course includes the entire faculties of the most prestigious schools in the world and every paper of record.

That must be pleasant, in a way. Keeps the world nice and simple - Good Guys v Bad Guys. Freedom vs Fascism. Democracy vs "Islamofasicm". And anything that falls outside of that silly, simplistic narrative is met with venomous scorn.

Wow. It never occurred to me before. It's no wonder neoconservatives are so gullible, so un-critical, so credulous. They've willfully committed themselves to a self-perpetuating cycle of ignorance. I'm legitimately taken aback. As bad as the neoconservatives were at governing (and oh my god were they bad), they were pretty damn good at turning potential conservatives into ignorant, easily-programmable, cliche-regurgitating robot war-cheerleaders.

Anyway, Nick, to address your question: I do not cherry-pick the news. I do not judge the information from the source. I read widely, in the mainstream media, from progressive/liberal sources, from conservative sources and from neoconservative sources as well. I look at evidence and then judge the evidence on its merits and alter my opinions according to what I adjudge to be the truth. I do not judge the evidence based on whether the evidence and the source already reflect my pre-existing opinions.

How can you do that and consider yourself a thinking man?

jaywhite| 1.30.09 @ 7:25PM

"What? I don’t even know what these sentences are supposed to mean. Are you speaking in code?
I 'm sorry I didn't know you have a learning disability. Bin Laden said the WTC bombing was due mainly to the negative influence of the west on Moslems which really started in modern times (in Bin Laden's sick mind) in 1922, when the "Young Turks" staged a coop and made modern Turkey which is a SECULAR STATE. BIN LADEN wants no individual Moslem states just one CALIPHATE. Israel wasn't around to be blamed for the worst injustice Bin Laden believes the west inflicted on the Moslems. Was that simple enough. As for the Lavi , the Israeli made jet fighter. Since you are so upset that the jets bombing Gazas were made in the US, I am pointing out how the US pressured Israel to stop developing their own Jet. But you want to blame Israel for making the Arabs angry because they are flying Jets which the US pressured them to buy from the US instead of making their own Jet.
I can see you obviously don't know what you are talking about. American aid to Israel, is in part compensation for Israel's loss up to a billion dollars a year when they handed the Sinai oil fields to the Egyptians under pressure from "Peanut" Carter , which were rightly Israel's.
You should read up on the Middle East for at least 100 hours if you want to avoid making a fool out of yourself again. The US supplies Egypt with the same amount of money in aid as Israel receives. So with Egypt's leader now 74 years old, it is possible that Egypt which is armed to the entirely with US made weapons paid for with your money (if you pay any tax) will soon possibly be ruled by a Khomeni like fanatic who will have possession of 10s of billions of dollars of US weapons. The Arab Gulf states have received $60 billion dollars worth of US made weapons from the US. I know this is over your head. Politically, the US couldn't " play both sides" without massive aid to both sides. The US is bribing Israel to not complain too much about arming the Arabs even more they are arming the Israelis. US aid also improves it's image with the oil sheikdoms by using the threat of withholding the aid, to pressure Israel to make suicidal concessions such as "negotiating" with groups whose only goal is to murder all Jews in Israel. Would you "negotiate" with someone whose bottom line is you must be die, , but the exact time is negotiable.

Scott A Joseph, MD| 1.30.09 @ 7:32PM

NIE have been wrong before. What is fact is that Iran is developing means to enrich uranium, which only serves an useful purpose in making bombs.

America did not have a significant international presence in the Middle East until after WWII; SL, your question is disingenuous.

The Arabs are highly questionable friends for kaffirs to have. Their friendliness to us has been shown in their votes against us 80 + of the time, even in situations which have nothing to do with Israel.

Finally, SL, do you want the Israelis to hit the Middle East with 200 nukes? What do you think they would do to the Arabs if Tel Aviv was toasted? What would you do if you were them? Myself, I'd nuke Mecca, Medina, Riyadh, Damascus, and then go from there. The Israelis have between 80-200 nukes.

The Iranian leadership does not exactly ooze rationality. If it had been any President but Carter in there, Tehran would have been destroyed on Day 2 of the hostage crisis.

For the Arabs' sake, you should hope the Israelis stop the Iranian bomb.

Scott A Joseph, MD| 1.30.09 @ 7:39PM

The Arab world's view of the US before Israel, SL---have you never heard the Marine Corp anthem? What do you think "the shores of Tripoli" refers to?

Look it up if you can read---I'll give you a hint---the administration of THOMAS JEFFERSON.

We were in conflict with Islamofascists CENTURIES before the establishment of Israel. You are not only a vicious antisemite; you are also an ignorant cretin.

Nick| 1.30.09 @ 7:46PM

Mr. Toddard,

Glad I could spread some joy.

The definintion of conservative seems to have been on a sliding scale the last 8 years. Not to mention all the hyphenated cons out there.

If you're talking about the Locke or Smith traditions, can't help you. Although I'm aware of them, I don't claim to be well read.

I do think I know the difference in philosophies though. A neo-con is one who was liberal and anti-communist but couldn't take the commie sympathizers who took over the democrat party. A big government hawk, to put it simplisticly. It is not every Jew in the Repulican Party, as some on the left & right think.

A libertarian believes in total individual autonomy, more or less. At least they claim they do. "You can't tell me what to do as long as I'm not hurting anyone" to be simplistic again.

I'm the Roman Catholic kind of conservative. And that means I believe everything the Church teaches. And I want to conserve all the vestiges of Christian Tradition still left in this country and bring back those that have been erased.

dlw| 1.30.09 @ 8:06PM

read:
Surprise, Security, and the American Experience

It answers your silly question about why American security is enhanced by support of Israel.

Nick| 1.30.09 @ 8:09PM

Mr. Toddard,

You shouldn't assume. I read/watch liberals all the time. How do you think I know Moyers is full of crap.

I grew up watching Uncle Walter and John Chancellor et al, believing they were objective journalists keeping the powerful accountable to we the people.

But then I heard Rush prove day in and day out how biased the press was to the left. And the scales fell from my eyes. And from Rush I was introduced to the whole conservative world I didn't know existed.

David Blake| 1.30.09 @ 10:35PM

SL Toddard wrote:

"First, I never meant to imply that no one should *care* what happens anywhere, only that America has no vital national interest being served by our "special relationship" with Israel, and that if the relationship does not enhance our security then it should end."

Toddard, your statement is fundamentally flawed. The US maintains many relationships with many countries that do not enhance our security. How does Iceland enhance our security? Do you go around advocating that we cut them off, too? You don't care about this "enhancing security" stuff, you just want to single out Israel for criticism. Your double standards and your hatred of Israel are all too clear.

Jeremiah| 1.30.09 @ 10:57PM

Can't everyone here just IGNORE the dumb liberal troll S.L. Toddard? He's so full of himself he can't take a crap anymore.
Nuke Iran or give a green card to every Israel citizen.

Jeremiah| 1.30.09 @ 11:06PM

Besides, there's no such individual as S.L. Toddard. Just check Intelius. Maybe a Scott Toddard in Colorado Springs, but according to somebody I know there, the guy is in law enforcement. Hardly a liberal wimp.

Jeremiah| 1.30.09 @ 11:12PM

*hardly a liberal wimp* What is this supposed to mean, slimy weasel of a fascist? Don't youdare sneaking on my privacy! Intelius is just bogus intelligence, a scam designed by an indian refugee!

Jeremiah| 1.30.09 @ 11:15PM

S.L.T. are you losing your balance? Next time use you alias when you post, dumb liberal!

Hint: you were betrayed by the ***, you moron!

Osamas Pajamas | 1.30.09 @ 11:42PM

OhBummer is funny, he says the American people are not enemies of Islam --- but if that is true, it is only beause we are asleep at the wheel.

Alan Brooks| 1.30.09 @ 11:52PM

good idea, even though youre being cute.
i support Israel to do whatever it wants with tax funds from America or anywhere else and i buy Israel products.

i just want Israel to destroy it's enemies, as my dad killed krauts in the Army Air Force '43-'45. period. opinions mean nothing to me whatsoever. to be a man you kill-- but only your enemies when there is no other choice.
drop dead, please.

Nick| 1.31.09 @ 12:51AM

Mr. Toddard,

You only answered one of my questions, by the way.

How many conservatives do you know personally who quote, not just liberals, but the most crazy leftwing kooks out there; to make "CONSERVATIVE" arguments? Do you not see the disconnect here?

At least Bob uses the Heritage Foundation sometimes.

Frosty| 1.31.09 @ 1:14AM

SL Toddard is a son of a bitch.

Warrior| 1.31.09 @ 3:35AM

Jeremiah,

S.L. Toddard is actually the Gay Libertarian, Justin Raimondo, he says as much himself above. Raimondo hates Israel and loves men in a perverted way.

Michael L. Hauschild| 1.31.09 @ 4:59AM

Dimitrijevic
Gee, I never thought of the risk. Oh, well maybe we can get in a couple of sets of tennis before the nuclear holocaust. Seriously, Dimitrijevic, a poor place to stand would be in front of the ranks of those Israeli pilots when they ask for volunteers for that particular mission. You would be trampled by the bottoms of their boots.

Mark Detwiller| 1.31.09 @ 7:25AM

We are entering the last days when all countries will be against Israel, (the election of Obama, the last Antichrist proclaims it). If you doubt that statement, put his face under his light blue semi circle that is over his rolling red waves, (which remind me of blood). Who knew that when he spoke of Hope & Change that it would end up meaning "I HOPE I have CHANGE in my pocket when He's done with US!!!". But I am off point. We are all in God's hands and each day reveals more of his plan. God will deliver Israel as the Bible as laid out. Islam has always been a political movement disguising itself as a religion. It will bow their knees at the time God has set...

Dimitrijevic | 1.31.09 @ 9:52AM

Michael L. Hauschild -- 1.31.09 @ 4:59AM
Dimitrijevic
Gee, I never thought of the risk. Oh, well maybe we can get in a couple of sets of tennis before the nuclear holocaust. Seriously, Dimitrijevic, a poor place to stand would be in front of the ranks of those Israeli pilots when they ask for volunteers for that particular mission. You would be trampled by the bottoms of their boots.

- - - - - - - -

Perhaps. But my comments weren't out of concern for the pilots themselves. The Iranians would be extremely keen to get their hands on a few Israeli pilots who had participated in an attack on Iran. I would imagine those pilots have a fair bit of general information the Iranians would like to have. Any Israelis in Iranian custody would get a chance to prove their bravery then, rather than trampling over little ol' me. They would be offered a chance to chat politely of course, but if they weren't willing to do that then things would probably get a little, ah, less friendly shall we say. There's a good chance they'd cooperate eventually.

Dimitrijevic | 1.31.09 @ 10:19AM

Scott A Joseph, MD| 1.30.09 @ 7:32PM

NIE have been wrong before. What is fact is that Iran is developing means to enrich uranium, which only serves an useful purpose in making bombs.

- - - - - -

Au contraire. You must have missed that nuclear physics course in pre-med Doc. I'm not an expert on the subject by any means, but the way I understand it is Low Enriched Uranium (LEU), i.e. natural uranium enriched to a level containing between 3% and 20% U-235 is used to fuel nuclear reactors. Low Enriched Uranium is not capable of producing high yield explosive nuclear weapons. LEU at the high end of the scale (~20% U-235) CAN be used to manufacture so-called neutron weapons, i.e. weapons that emit significant gamma and neutron radiation upon detonation.

High(ly) Enriched Uranium (HEU) can be used to manufacture high explosive yield nuclear weapons. HEU is uranium enriched beyond the point of ~20% U-235. Typically the HEU that is used to manufacture high explosive yield nuclear weapons is in the range of 90% U-235.

Iran is currently producing Low Enriched Uranium (LEU) which is consistent with nuclear reactor fuel. I'm not aware of any evidence that the Iranians are enriching uranium beyond the point of 3% - 5% U-235.

Test Test

mason| 1.31.09 @ 10:39AM

a)- Iran is no threat to us. Given the context of our own governments 50+ years meddling in their nations politics and affairs I can appreciate their disdain for anything American. We certainly didn't like the British meddling in our action back in the day.
b) Israel, we can't tell you to what to do. Our nation has the blood of Native Americans on its hands. We did 1-2 centuries ago what you are doing now. But ask not for assistance, we haven't the taste for empire any longer. Your lust is not ours.
c) The "British East India Company" strategy of colonization/exploitation/profitization was employed successfully by white Euopean non-Jews and Jews alike. We've given most of it back to the native peoples, or we've blended with them. Israel is the last place still trying to expand in the modern world. If a politician came forth from the Israeli Arab population who had ideas to heal the nation and had an Obama style of outreach, would jews vote for him if he ran for Israeli president? (my guess is some would sooner pick Barabbas)
d) The oil industry is not the responsibility of US taxpayers and military personnel. Anyone who suggests that we have a strategic interest in the MidEast because of oil is a corporate Socialist! You willingly marginalize the lives of all Americans to prop up a privately owned operation when oil is mentioned as a strategic asset. If we had put our troops to work on developing alternatives to oil instead of Dying for it, we would all be the better for it!
e) religion - i'll talk to my God on my time. Preachers stay away I do not need your middleman act getting in my way. Religion, from my perspective at least, is irrelevant to the Middle East except as a historical anecdote and should be marginalized to the fullest extent possible.
The reality is on the ground. Iranians didn't kill US citizen Rachel Corrie with a US made bulldozer, Iranians did not attack the USS Liberty, Iranians do not engage in dive bombing practice runs over UN facilities. Iranian jets do not violate the sovreignty of their neighbors airspace. Iran receives no social engineering funds (WELFARE) from us, Iran has not rounded up its Jewish citizens for punishment or elimination, American-Iranians do not clog our political system with lobbyists pressuring Every Single Elected Federal Government Official to accede to their wishes, lest they see their next election opponent supported instead. All that said, I know I could find plenty of disagreeable things about Iran or their actions (as others find in us), but nothing to make me say attack! Same goes for Israel, disagreeable yes, attack no.

S.L. Toddard| 1.31.09 @ 10:41AM

"How many conservatives do you know personally who quote, not just liberals, but the most crazy leftwing kooks out there; to make "CONSERVATIVE" arguments? Do you not see the disconnect here?"

Not really. By no stretch of the imagination can Bill Moyers be called a "kook", though he is obviously not a conservative. And again, I referenced the WHO, the UN, and Johns Hopkins University also. I did a search and cut-and-pasted everything I found without censoring it. I don't think that implies anything at all about one's political orientation.

"Wesley Crusher" hahaha

S.L. Toddard|| 1.31.09 @ 10:49AM

"Besides, there's no such individual as S.L. Toddard. Just check Intelius. Maybe a Scott Toddard in Colorado Springs, but according to somebody I know there, the guy is in law enforcement. Hardly a liberal wimp."

Oh my. I have done such an effective job of utterly annihilating, with unassailable logic, the positions that "Jeremiah" holds dear that he is now doing earnest research into my identity, hoping to... I don't know what.

I apologize, Jeremiah, for being superior - not *acting* superior, but literally *being* superior - to you. I cannot help it if my intellect dwarfs your own. I cannot be blamed for the ease with which I obliterate the positions to which you cling so desperately and ineptly. I am simply a better man than you are. That must be something you're used to by now - being in the company of men superior to yourself. I understand that you might find it humiliating, being so utterly unmanned and exposed as an intellectually hapless ape, a repugnant cretin incapable of formulating any sort of defense of the ideas you borrow and regurgitate. I guess I am saying that I feel real sympathy toward you, like one feels to a chimpanzee caged in a zoo, playing with its dung and spitting hate at the free, superior beings peering into its cage.

Here is a tip for you, ape - read Nick and Ammo Guy's arguments. They are wrong nearly 100% of the time but they have spent time thinking about the issues and hold their own like men. Neither of them gives a damn what I think other than vis a vis a wish to defeat my arguments in honest debate. It gets heated but none of us leave our arguments to go searching out the other's identity. That is how it's done.

Watch and learn, ape.

Chet Nagle | 1.31.09 @ 10:55AM

Dimitrijevic, if you want to learn about LEU and HEU and the key phrase, "break out," spend a few minutes on the IISS and ISIS websites. You will see that Iran's stock of LEU will enable them to produce one or more nuclear weapons in 2009. Then for further education and entertainment, read my novel, "Iran Covenant," available on amazon and www.irancovenant.com. As one blogger wrote, it is not a question of "if" but a question of "when" in discussions of a raid on Iran's nuclear weapons factories -- or an Iranian attack on the nation they call the Great Satan, the United States.

Dimitrijevic | 1.31.09 @ 11:41AM

Chet Nagle wrote: You will see that Iran's stock of LEU will enable them to produce one or more nuclear weapons in 2009.

I have never found this argument persuasive. The Iranians are signatories to the NPT and they are permitted a domestic nuclear programme. I'm more disturbed by the "what if" argument in regard to Israel. That country has nuclear weapons today and after watching their display of blood-lust in Gaza the thought of that country possessing nuclear weapons right now is genuinely frightening.

I've never lost a minute of sleep worrying about the über-hyped "Iranian Threat" due to the fact that the Iranians are not suicidal, whatever you may think or what you may have written in your book. They fully understand that having one or three or ten nuclear weapons will not protect them should they decide to explode one or all of them against another nation. The Iranian leadership understands perfectly well that one French, British, American or Russian (possibly Israeli) nuclear missile submarine can flatten their country ten minutes after they make such an hypothetical attack, and the Iranians would conduct themselves accordingly -- if they had a weapon, which they do not. They're not going to risk their culture, their civilisation and their very existence with a nuclear first strike on the United States or any other country with a much larger, more powerful and more sophisticated nuclear inventory. The very suggestion is preposterous.

The second part of this argument is the Iranians might provide a nuclear weapon(s) in the future to some group that would act as surrogate for Iran. That group would explode a weapon against one of Iran's perceived enemies thereby keeping the Iranians' hands clean, ostensibly. Modern technical equipment however is able to detect various signatures of nuclear weapons and give a very strong indication of where a particular device originated. A nuclear weapon that originated in Iran and was exploded somewhere would be identified in short order as very likely an Iranian product. Iran would then suffer the consequences as if the attack originated from Iranian soil.

Thanks for the websites. Here's one I think you'll like:

Arms Control Wonk

GAY-CON-anti-Israel| 1.31.09 @ 2:37PM

S.L. Toddard,

Tjhanks for all you do for us.

Louis Jenkins| 1.31.09 @ 2:49PM

Thank you Detwiller for your post. Ahmadinejad is not a benign leader. Yes, the industrialized west has the ability to spot a pimple on the rear of Ahmadinejad's donkey, but he has beliefs and plans for the future and it includes us. Western culture is always looking for the exit after a confrontation, but Muslims are prepared for a one way trip.

http://www.iranian.ws/cgi-bin/iran_news/exec/view.cgi/13/10945

S.L. Toddard| 1.31.09 @ 2:53PM

"I've never lost a minute of sleep worrying about the über-hyped "Iranian Threat" due to the fact that the Iranians are not suicidal, whatever you may think or what you may have written in your book. They fully understand that having one or three or ten nuclear weapons will not protect them should they decide to explode one or all of them against another nation. The Iranian leadership understands perfectly well that one French, British, American or Russian (possibly Israeli) nuclear missile submarine can flatten their country ten minutes after they make such an hypothetical attack, and the Iranians would conduct themselves accordingly -- if they had a weapon, which they do not."

Mr Dimitrijevic, I must say this display of pragmatic, rational, realistic reasoning is entirely out of place on this website. There is no hint of deranged hysteria, not one iota of paranoid dementia, and as such it will more than likely be summarily dismissed out-of-hand by the readers here.

Nevertheless, you do cut right to it, don't you? For most cowering, terror-stricken neoconservatives the concocting of a phony unanimous consensus as to Iran's endeavoring to build nuclear weapons is enough. They never take that next step - as you have here - and assess rationally whether the people and government of Iran are, unlike every other people in the history of the world, not possessed of a compulsion to self-preservation. To believe that Iran would use its (non-existent, mind you) nuclear weapons to attack Israel or, even more fantastical and unsupported-by-evidence, the United States (!) is to believe that they would accept nuclear Armageddon, they would accept the erasure of Persia from the map and future history of the world, that they would be willing to be annihilated as a nation and a people - be wiped wholesale out of existence - for the privilege of making that attack.

The notion is patently absurd on its face.

heywood jablowmee| 1.31.09 @ 4:18PM

Um S.L., Your logic is asinine. Your point is that Iran would not launch a nuclear attack because they would "know" that the U.S. , British, French (yeah right) or Russians (oh, come on) would retaliate and and destroy them.

Now lets think. How would they "know" this? If our position had previously been that Israel is on their own, and that we are not going to help them defend themselves, then how exactly would they "know" that we would finally come to Israel's aid on the day they launched the missles? If our position had been that Israel was on their own, then how exactly would they "know" this. Why wouldn't they correctly think that the last thing we would do at that point is to get involved?

Nick| 1.31.09 @ 5:10PM

Mr. Toddard,

I'm glad to see the Wesley Crusher/Rachel Maddow reference is still providing laughs for you, I aim to please. I was afraid no one would get it.

My point wasn't ALL liberal sources are ALWAYS wrong. I've used liberals myself to bolster my arguments. Not to defend a bogus statement made almost exclusively by lefties, like you did. But in this sense: "If even CNN, NYT, LAT, etc., say Bush won the 2000 election, then how can anyone argue he didn't?"

John Burns (NYT) was an often quoted sorce by conservatives of what was really going on in Iraq. So enough of the straw man argument "you only get your info from Rush, etc." at 1.30.09 @ 7:15PM.

Thanks for the backhanded compliment at 1.31.09 @ 10:49AM, but flattery will get you nowhere. For you to claim I'm wrong nearly 100% of the time, I consider that a badge of honor.

In another thread I asked you this question: Was General Washington a war crimminal or a terrorist when he hanged Maj. Andre within 10 days of his capture and trial by military commission?

Alan Brooks| 1.31.09 @ 6:23PM

im with Nick, Catholic conservatism with respect for Israel as the originator of the Judeo-cum-Christian ethic.

Nick| 1.31.09 @ 6:41PM

Mr. Brooks,

Thanks, I appreciate your remarks.

I'll give Mr. Toddard credit, he didn't attack my Roman Catholicism like others I've debated do.

Jeremiah| 1.31.09 @ 9:16PM

S.L. Toddard, you're seeing a repugnant cretin and an ape? Just smash that mirror. Why are you wasting your time on a conservative forum, trying to be funny while juggling factoids, half truths and comic book sentences? Everybody here is sharing the same opinion about you and you are irrelevant. You enjoy being despised. You long for scorn. It gives you self importance in your sorry excuse for a mind, but you just don't exist. I can't believe I'm writing a post about some...body (?) that never was. An abstraction with less value than pork chops in Hussein's (Our Messiah, not Saddam.) plate. You willfully chose the alias of someone who doesn't exist. What is your problem? Is it a lack of self esteem or self confidence that made you turn into a liberal abstraction? I can't even despise you because you are a form of vacuum. You are less than ripples on a pond because those reveal energy. You have none. No strength. No brain. No dick. No glory. You don't exist. You can't exist. You fulfilled the dream of every abortion butcher: you'll never be. You're a liberal.

jax| 1.31.09 @ 9:38PM

Jeremiah, you should not waste your time assaulting liberals on this blog, it's Mission Impossible!
Mr T. doesn't like jews, Israel and his own Land. And he's not really upset by Iran's nuclear program, so what else is new? Did he vote McCain? So where's the surprise? Just give him a break and he'll fade away.

The poor fellow gave us a sample of his intellectual prowess:
http://spectator.org/archives/2009/01/28/the-last-methodist-president

[ "Bush has retained his membership at Highland Park United Methodist Church in Dallas, a mega church"

Pffffhahahahaha! ]

Why debate a troll?

Mansoor K.| 1.31.09 @ 10:11PM

being a student pilot from Iran,I am reading this blogsite in pure disbelief as I realize in USA that you have a very rudimentary knowledge of the way we think and we behave in Iran... We have a President with his shortcomings but he tells the truth,he always tells the truth and no one in West takes him seriously.Our President does not threaten Israel just for the sake of it but because he means it if you american do not force Israel to behave and surrender the territories stolen since the early 1920 years by the jews in Palestine.We are not sunnite and we did not sold our souls for protection as Saudi Arabia did.We will erase Israel and we know no one country will die for Israel.Maybe the jews will compromise when they understand finally that they are on their own because no one will come to their help end no one will bomb us.Otherwise we are not joking at all,we joke differently when we feel it is time to joke.and our President is not a joker.

Alan Brooks| 1.31.09 @ 11:41PM

if only Israel could be moved to say, Bavaria, Austria, or better yet what used to be called Prussia...
and then all you cameljockeys wearing diapers on your heads could whack each other real good 'n' hard, as Iran and Iraq did 1980- '88.

oh, if only it could be!

Alan Brooks| 1.31.09 @ 11:44PM

Mansoor,
wallow in your shiite-head nightmare forever-- or until Hell freezes over.

P.S.| 1.31.09 @ 11:56PM

sure, writing "cameljockeys" is rote.

but, mansore, cant you do better than 'jews in palestine' or , say, 'zionist entity'? why dont you scream out loud what you really want to do-- kill them Israelis.

just get it out of your little system.

TED TAZMAN| 2.1.09 @ 1:50AM

Just keep looking up. Eveything is falling into place.

Louis Jenkins| 2.1.09 @ 9:56AM

If Mansoor is on the level you should see reason. Iran does not want to be a friend to the West, nor should we be misled by a US President who thinks he can be friends with them. (And Mansoor is training to be a pilot?) Israel and the Jews have suffered since before 1920. While the Turkish/Muslim empire waxed strong Jews were being killed, exiled, etc. from their homes. Before the US or Israel existed, Muslim Barbary Pirates were raiding for slaves as far north as Iceland. (Look it up!!) Israel knows that to compromise is death. If America compromises, and we're getting darn good at it, we'll be in the same stew. Don't be misled people, the pond cannot protect us. Only men and women with stout hearts and sure aim can do that.

The End of America| 2.1.09 @ 12:05PM

Mansoor K.

As a trainee Pilot, do you think it's a good idea for Iran to train more people as pilots.

I am sure you are aware, that most Americans are not very well educated, and most lack common sense. But more to the point they want to attack Iran because they see Iran as a threat to Israel.

What do you think if Iran was attacked, do you think Israel would be any safer?.

Personally I don't think they would be any safer, my reason is simple common sense, if there are 2.6 Million people living somewhere, and there are say 3 billion people are the majority, and the majority see the minority as the threat, what do you think realistically would need to change, to create peace.

If the minority think they have more rights than the majority, and the minority is the stumbling block to peace.

Who do you think has excersised more restraint, in view they are a minority.

Another point why are the Arab nations fearful of Iran, do you think it is because of all the people in the area, Iran has the most educated people in the Arab world?.

Why do you think the Americans want to attack Iran, do you strongly think it's to protect Israel, or more to do with the fact that the Iranians realise the American dollars is worthless and want to trade in Euros, which would destroy the American economy which is very much weaken. Would you also agree that the reason they attacked Iraq was the same reason the threat of how the major oil producing countries view the American Dollar in respect to trade, because their currency is backed by nothing.

Do you think the countries who operate under the stable currency of the EU Dollar would benefit from the change over, and do you think the American economy would be destroyed for good?

S.L. Toddard| 2.1.09 @ 1:33PM

"Now lets think. How would they "know" this? If our position had previously been that Israel is on their own, and that we are not going to help them defend themselves, then how exactly would they "know" that we would finally come to Israel's aid on the day they launched the missles?"

What are you talking about? Israel has its own arsenal. Does Israel strike you as a nation too timid to unleash a nuclear attack in self defense?

S.L. Toddard| 2.1.09 @ 1:36PM

"I'll give Mr. Toddard credit, he didn't attack my Roman Catholicism like others I've debated do."

On the contrary I respect it. I was raised Catholic myself and have been entertaining the idea of attending a Latin mass recently.

I'm not familiar with Washington's hanging of Maj Andre. I don't believe the US had signed any treaties at that point governing laws of war or international laws period though.

S.L. Toddard| 2.1.09 @ 1:43PM

Jesus people "Mansoor" is one of you, trying to rile all of you up by acting the part of the scariest thing in the world to you people - an antisemitic muslim who can fly a jet.

It's probably another alias of "Jeremiah".

Alan Brooks| 2.1.09 @ 6:48PM

no, Mansore might well be Iranian, but perhaps not a pilot, he might be related to a pilot he is worried about. could be anything. BUT
Jeremiah wouldnt go THAT far. theres a limit to what even trolls will do. btw The End Of America is Daphne, prob. located in England or Canada, say. now she is trying to write better yet she is as uneducated as the Americans she writes of-- which is why the name 'Daphne'-- even if aka-- is no longer used.
cover yourself at all times!
*******************************************
my replies to Manson began with how a supreme justice in relocating Israel however hypothetically to Germany would in fact free the region to feud in holy fratricide.

theres only one way to prove it, but that, it goes without saying, is out of the question.

Alan Brooks| 2.1.09 @ 6:57PM

if mansore is for real, then his mistake is thinking because we have rud. knowl. of Iran that many Iranians, he assumes, are more in the know than we are.
false. how many Iranians visit here? given theirrelative isolation, how many are aware of what even a more open society as ours is like.

which segues into how we here could know much about Iran....

Ret AF| 2.1.09 @ 10:02PM

Iran claims its low enriched uranium is for nuclear power plants. They are sitting on top of billions of barrels of oil, but they have no refining capacity. Why don't they spend those resources to build refineries and diesel power production which can be up and running long before the nuclear power will be.

If their infrastructure (grid) is in as bad a shape as the rest of the country due to sanctions, how will nuclear power be distributed?

And why are they pursuing theater ballistic missiles (offensive weapons) if they have no nuclear ambition. And before you say "deterrence" against Israeli "aggression" - that then begs the question, why would they fear an Israeli pre-emptive attack? Only because they're pursuing nuclear weaponry...it becomes circular.

They could have the sanctions lifted, vastly improving quality of life for their citizens and ending the threat of pre-emptive attack, simply by stopping enrichment of uranium. Their leaders know this.

Alan Brooks| 2.1.09 @ 10:41PM

they want S

if they dont have some already.-300 missiles from Russia.

Mansoor K.| 2.1.09 @ 10:42PM

I had not intention to scare everybody,I am not in the military and it would be difficult for a military man to speak his mind on the internet.I study aviation to fly twin engines planes for commuting.I do not hate america believe me but I just wanted to tell you that we are a society very peaceful because we have never declared war on our neighbours.I know canada because my first hours of flying time were spent there. I am so surprised by the way you consider Iran:It is not a society with crazy rulers,our society is very ancient,it is a splendid cultural paradise however it is without fantasy and empty words if it comes to our multiple conflict with the infidels.If the President tells we are peaceful it is true.If he tells Israel must be cancelled it is true also.Iran does not deceive the world.And the world should listen.

Alan Brooks| 2.1.09 @ 10:44PM

now how can that post have gotten scrambled.

Iran wants a basket of S-300 missiles from little red riding medvedev.

Alan Brooks| 2.1.09 @ 10:58PM

Manson-sore is the real deal- NOT Jeremiah.

William | 2.2.09 @ 3:03AM

Islam has been every neighbor's enemy for roughly 1,400 years. It is the last significant blood cult.
Religious blood cult, anyway.

Jeremiah| 2.2.09 @ 11:25AM

William, couldn't have put it better, myself! Re the Mansoor connection, whoever is claiming to fly magic carpets in the friendly persian skies, could be any liberal but your faithful servant! It's hard enough already to endorse the morally repugnant character of a liberal punk like Jeremiah, it is even harder to have to unclog this blog's restroom of the toxic sludge I left when I flushed the ectoplasm SLT back to the big hole of leftist madness where it belonged (proof that a non-existing non-being may conceal tons of B.S.). But to impersonate a rabid alien from another space and time dimension, sorry I meant your average muslim, is (as the Messiah would put it when asked embarrassing questions) "above my pay grade"!!
We should have no patience with Iranians who claim they're peaceful and American loving citizens. Did anyone forget what happened to our Embassy crew in Teheran for 13 months? Wasn't there a quite unpleasant episode called the Iraqi-Iranian War that lasted 8 years and claimed millions of lives? Our wannabe carpet pilot should try his goodwill gestures on other blogs such as Salon, we already have to deal with an invasion of liberal locusts. One plague at a time, please.

Mansoor K.| 2.2.09 @ 9:55PM

Sir what are you talking about?I can not stay very long this night because the connection is terrible and it is not a good idea to loiter on the internet.some day the things will improve and it will be more easy to share our opinions.Peace may be on all of you.

ruth| 2.3.09 @ 1:20AM

Mansoor/Daphne, DEATH TO AMERICA twins. LOL

WHERE IS YOUR HEAVEN| 2.3.09 @ 10:10AM

Iran launched it's first Salellite into space on the 2nd Feb 09. Why is it not in the News?

Israel promises fresh attacks on Gaza, and demand all people in the south to move out, to go where? the borders are closed. Anyone out there interested in peace?.

Israel is desperate, so is the rest of the world, the economic situation is dire, poverty is rising, businesses losing money, staff losing their jobs. Israel needs to join the global community and stop the threats and grow up.

A people who wanted a state, show what you wanted a state for. Israel has become a state that only purpose is to use threats against its neighbours, spread lies and stir up trouble. It's time Israel come of age and join the civilized world. War is not more important than peace, peace is more important than war.

Israel is getting ready to attack Iran, is Israel on a death wish? it's a small state, that is supported by the Americans, it's time the Americans become more responsible and promote peace in the world.

Israel plotted this war since March of 2007, this is during the 6 month agreement of trying to acheive a 2 state agreement, they had no intentions of keeping to it. Because they do not want any peace, they want more land. Israel is a model of NAZI Germany the Berlin wall, the concentration camps, the SS guards.

Israel is a TERRORIST STATE, as one Historian put it, the 2nd world never ended it was transported to the Middle East. Some are seeking heaven, but fail to see your heaven is right here on EARTH, one life one future, this world is a lovely place if wars and evil was removed. The question is who wants a world of mysery, the Rich and powerfull because they don't risk their lives, it's people who are in the Armed forces, and poor civillians on the ground.
Kings and Queens and Princes, don't lose their lives in the wars they make money from the loss of lives. The loss of lives by the poor who have been indoctrinated into thinking there is another life, is the robbers of the heaven we have here on earth, of quality of life and the fruitfullness of family life. The poor are waiting for another life, that don't exist, while being robbed of shairing in the goodness and prosperity of the life we have now. It's done out of greed, not need, some don't want to work, so they live off the backs of the poor, that is their heaven. While ordinary people die in the dirt of poverty and disease.

For the most of us, what difference does it make, which part of the Globe you live the most important thing and question is can you live? if tha answer is no people try to leave areas of war, famine and desease, just like the animals on the earth if you can't live in one place you move to another. People have given up on life hoping for a life after death, like the old Egyptian Occult ideology.

What the world needs is a strong dose of the truth and a strong dose of reality.

If dying you had a spot in HEAVEN why are the Kings and Queens and Princes guard their life so carefully, and the rich and powerfull. The POOR needs to fight not to protect the rich but to protect their family. All those who want war let them fight it themselves, and the poor fight the only war that is realistic the war to survive.

THE TRUTH SETS YOU FREE| 2.3.09 @ 10:29AM

Why has this group of people move to the Arab world? what is the purpose of it? 1917 someone had an idea that they can move people to the Arab world of the Semitic Jews and the Arabs, what was the purpose of this act, the people who created the concentration camps were the same people, who created the State of Israel, the NAZIS, has any one explored why this was done?. The same people who created NAZISM, are the same people who created ISRAEL.

This is the reason why anyone who studies JEWISH HISTORY is called Antisemitic, what are they trying to cover up. When people are prevented from exploring Historical facts it's because there is a reason to lie to the masses. This cover up has become so serious that America and Europe has deemed it a criminal offence to speak about this Historical fact.

It's like saying that Blacks are not allowed to speak about SLAVERY, and the fact they lost their name and culture and freedom, and History, not speaking about it, does not mean it did not happen. For someone to cover it up is because there is the possibility some one may find the truth. No MAN NEEDS TO HIDE FROM WHAT IS TRUE. These things should be debated, and the full facts presented.

GOYIMS DON'T KNOW| 2.3.09 @ 11:24AM

If Isreae used Nuclear attack they would not only destroy anyother country but would destroy themselves also, Israel Nuclear Bombs is to destroy America, when they have finished using them as idiots, they are GOYIMS.

The truth please| 2.3.09 @ 11:49AM

How is it no one in all this Israelite bull S..t recogonise that MOSES was rescued in a basket by the Egyptians, by Pharohs sister raised him as an Egyptian, and no one noticed he was a different colour and a different race.

It's as stupid as I am white my sister is white and my sister turns up with a baby who is a total different race and claim it's her baby, and no one aske any questions.

It's time the truth was told, and people stop hiding behind a lie.

Reveal the truth| 2.3.09 @ 1:23PM

People returning to a land they never knew, or owned does not make them Jewish. If God promised any race a land why would he have given them a land full of SCORPIONS and a desert. The only promise land on this planet is Africa, the land that is full of all the wealth of the world, the land that the west have stolen every ounce of Gold Diamonds every ounce of copper Uranium, every type of riches world wide. And the land is rich in minerals, only the Coloniolist has turned it into hell and even used the people of the land as commodities to buy and sell. They have even kept the people enslaved to this day, living in poverty world wide, and even with the evil thats dished out to these people, burning crosses, on lawns as a reminder to what happend to Christ, they kept their spirits. Their children have become lost, hence the word lost tribes, even in History the only people that has ever been classed as tribes have been Africans.

The lost tribes of Africa can be found all across the world, as a result of slavery. The white world has been trying to kill all black people on the planet, and have not succeded. They are the poorest people on earth but should be the richest.
Even their land was stolen, stolen by white people and enslaved.

Now how does the richest Bankers claim to be the Black Jews, there is no rich Bankers anywhere in the world that is Black, white people are the children of the serpent God, the one called Satan.
The one who deceived Adam and Eve the first two people in the garden of eden, they can't suddenly become white Europeans, some who which call them selves Jews. The first, the begining and the end the Alpha the Omega, as it was in the begining so will it be in the end.

The serpent people want to destroy the world, because they have never respected gods creation. They want to become gods clone animals people plants, any thing they can to undermine what is natral. They invaded Africa and after they left they left all their disease there, disease that was never found in the garden, and it's the place that has the most disease in the world, because this unclean people, infected the continent with their unclean being. That is why Africa has never recovered, it's lines parts of the rain forest is westerners go there the entire tribes would be wiped out. Before westerners went to Africa no one needed vaccinations. Africa has suffered to this day, because of the evil of these people who were Pagans. They have now adopted the Egypitan Occoult for a religion, and their cities is full of pagan Oblics, and Satanic objects. Vast Majority of Black peoples History has been covered up and the people who have stolen their identity are the ones who call themselves Jews to day.

Tell THE TRUTH| 2.3.09 @ 1:48PM

The countries that can prove that this group of people is a fraud is the acient text of what was once called Babylon, today Iraq, and the Persian Empire today called Iran.

These people of Israel is doing their best to cover up their history, but most of it is out there for anyone who is intersted.

That is why they destroyed the Museum in Iraq and many object stolen. They think they will do the same in Iran.

Most people around the world know all this nonsence is a fraud. Even the Bible says so.
The Bible is Historical, it has some history in it. Many people think all of it is things to come much of it is things that has passed.

The same way people worshiped the sun, in Egypt, is the same way people worship money today today. The same way the ones thrown out of the temple by Christ, for money laundering, and robbery it is exactly the same ideology on Wall Street to this day the worship of Mammon, material things, and occult and the God of the Dead like they did in Egypt, I.H.S. ISIS HORUS and SETH.

Nick| 2.4.09 @ 9:22PM

Mr. Toddard,

You wrote: "I'm not familiar with Washington's hanging of Maj Andre. I don't believe the US had signed any treaties at that point governing laws of war or international laws period though."

I'm not shocked you're ingnorant of U.S. history in gerneral, and laws of war in particular.

How can you lecture on "supposed" violations of Gitmo detainees rights and illegal war, when you have no knowledge of military tribunals, POW status, and the Laws of Nations? Or do you just claim to be an expert on the Geneva Conventions?

In June 1775, the Continental Congress met to approve their laws of war, which were revised over the course of the War for Independence. At the same time they were drafting the Declaration on Taking Up Arms with Great Britain (July 6th, 1775). These were the United Colonies. There were no United States yet.

Laws of war are the rules & regs a country makes for itself so everybody involved in the hostilities know what rights and privileges to expect. It is not a treaty.

In 1780 the Articles of Confederation hadn't been ratified yet, so no international treaty could exist. So that's the history.

Read Article 1, section 8, clause 10 of the U.S. Constitution, Congress has the power to define & punish offenses of the Laws of Nations. They have done this in the U.S. Code and the UCMJ.

Besides, the rights owed to POW's and other lawful combatants under the Geneva Conventions do not, nor have they ever applied to unlawful combatants, like Maj. Andre.

I suggest you educate yourself, Mr. Toddard.

Palestine Turned into HELL| 2.13.09 @ 2:24PM

I see the hostilities towards the Palestinians, who have no ARMY, no means of self defence, people shot in the fields trying to grow food to feed their children. Peoples homes blown up with old people and children in them.

I have seen people who have to tunnel their way out of Gaza to get food to feed them selves and their children.

I have seen farmers attacked picking their crops, by the Israelis. I have seen Israelis Army attacking innocent women and children for no reason at all. I have seen air and LAND attacks for no reason. Chemical and biological WMD dropped on the population of Gaza, UN buildings attacked, huge numbers of people moved by Israelis and then where they tell them to go is bombed. Then we hear of who won an election, what difference does it make?.

Nick| 2.14.09 @ 12:35AM

I have seen Arabs lie. I have seen Arabs drop a casket with a "victim" in it, only to the have the dead brought back to life, and climb back into the casket. And I've seen Arabs walk up to innocent Israelis and blow themselves up.

Peddle your lies at the huffpost.

Andrew P| 3.4.09 @ 8:38AM

The best way for Israel to take out Iran is the simplest. Thermonuclear attack with ballistic missiles. Massive Thermonuclear Bombardment - MTB.

Trackback| 5.1.09 @ 1:03AM

Model Boats, on Model Boats, links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

This has been said before, but with pharma jumping ship asap and the loss of the NY banking mecca, what industry is going to employ people at the income levels needed to maintain the ststus quo. What industy is going to employ these people in any form, as the number of jobs is shrinking?

Hillo| 3.30.10 @ 12:09PM

LASIK (lyhenne sanoista laser-assisted in situ keratomileusis) on läppäleikkaus, jolla korjataan silmien taittovika. Lasik-leikkaukset aloitettiin Suomessa, ensimmäisenä Pohjoismaissa vuonna 1995. Sarveiskalvo on yleensä noin 500 mikronia (0,5mm) paksu. 250 mikronia siitä pitää jättää koskemattomaksi, joten 250 mikronia jää käytettäväksi taittovirheleikkauksessa. Mekaanisella, silmää leikkaavalla mikrokeratomilla leikataan 110-160 mikronia (+- 12 mikronia) paksu läppä sarveiskalvoon. Joten varsinaiseen hiontaa jää käytettäväksi 78-128 mikronia. Taittovirhehionnassa laserlaite käyttää keskimäärin 13 mikronia/ 1 diopteri (myös hajataitto). Näin ollen 500 mikronin sarveiskalvoon voitiin hioa n.6-10 diopterin korjaus (ilman hajataittoarvoa).

kjljkl| 11.19.09 @ 10:07PM

MKV Converter,
Convert MKV File

Pingback| 2.3.10 @ 5:47PM

High Energy Military Weapons to Take Out Locust Plagues links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…Machines Eat Everything In Their Path ... UK Immigrant Magazine » Blog Archive » World Development Briefing ... 13 WTF Moments From 'The Day The Earth Stood Still' Remake The American Spectator : Israel Readies Iran Takeout

wangsir| 4.3.10 @ 5:17AM

Free download Blu ray Ripper for Mac

poptropica | 4.9.10 @ 10:32PM

I’ll have a Poptropica full written walkthrough very soon, but in the meantime, here are some answers to some of the frequently asked questions about Mythology Island. Having trouble? Post a question in the comments and I’ll try to answer it!
Getting Hercules to Help You

Hercules won’t help you until you have all five items from Zeus’ quest. Once you have the five items, bring them to Athena. Zeus will appear and steal them. The big jerk! Once this happens, talk to Athena and she will tell you that Hercules will help you. You’ll need to have the magic mirror from Aphrodite because Hercules doesn’t want to have to walk. He’s so lazy!
Getting the Hydra Scale

You can see how to do this in the videos, but basically you need to jump up when the Hydra is about to strike. He will rear one of his heads back to attack and his eyes will bulge out. When this happens, jump up in the air and then try to land on top of his head. That head will get knocked out. When all five heads get knocked out, the Hydra will be asleep and you can click on him to get one of the scales. I’ll have a Poptropica full written walkthrough very soon, but in the meantime, here are some answers to some of the frequently asked questions about Mythology Island. Having trouble? Post a question in the comments and I’ll try to answer it!
Getting Hercules to Help You

You can see how to do this in the videos, but basically you need

hand lvbags | 4.26.10 @ 3:23AM

after i will read your article.thanks your article,

Latest Headlines

Real Immigration Reform Requires Free Markets

Ross Kaminsky|79 comments

Enough With the Bipartisanship

Matt Purple|40 comments

The United States of El Norte

Larry Thornberry|55 comments

Vodka = Vodka = Vodka

Daniel J. Flynn|76 comments

Laying Down My Pen

Quin Hillyer

Tornado Chasers

Claire Healey|32 comments

We Will Remember

Roger Kaplan|25 comments

The Chinese Waltz

George H. Wittman|2 comments

The Spectacle Blog

Updated: NBC News: Holder Personally Approved Fox Reporter Warrant

Ross Kaminsky | 3:45PM

Felonious Attorney General?

Kaylin Bugos | 3:21PM

Did the Boy Scouts Cave to Pressure?

Claire Healey | 3:14PM

BBC World Survey Ranks Israel Near Bottom in Global Popularity

Aaron Goldstein | 12:36PM

Obamacare is a Big and Growing Problem for Democrats

Ross Kaminsky | 11:03AM

Stein on IRS Scandal

Patrick Ryan | 10:29AM

The Restricted Engine

Yogi Love | 6:00AM

Muslim, Er, Youth Riots in Sweden

Aaron Goldstein | 12:41AM

FLASHBACK TO: 1995

Pope Culture

By George Sim Johnston

A man of faith in a godless age is hitting Americans where it hurts.
Why the GOP Does Not, Like, Totally Suck

By P.J. O'Rourke

Mr. and Mrs. American Spectator Reader, let P.J. O’Rourke talk sense to your kids.
Dames at Sea

By John Corry
In the Absence of Guns

By Mark Steyn

In Britain, defending your property can get you life.
The Metaphysical Martini

By Werner J. Dannhauser
Counting the Costs of Clintonism

By Robert H. Bork

The debacle of this president’s administration is both a cause and a symptom of the decline of American values. Unless Congress impeaches him, that decline will go on unchecked. An eminent jurist surveys the damage and assesses the chances for the recovery of our culture.
Chuck McHagel

By George Neumayr

It won’t take long for conservatives to scratch this presidential wannabe off their 2008 scorecard.
The Legacy of Old John and Mother Fresh-Roasted

By Douglas Bartholomew
It’s the Best Time of the Year

By Mark Steyn

The American Christmas, like the songs that celebrate it, makes room for everybody under the rainbow. Is that why so many people seem to be hostile to it?
The Bush Crack-Up

By Brit Hume

Was the President done in by the economy, or by the politics of the economy?

Clip of the Day

H/T to National Review Online