The American Spectator

Ron in NH| 1.23.09 @ 7:16AM

Rhetoric claiming an interest in 'reducing abortions' has as much substance and worth as a 'cease-fire' with Hamas. Mr. Obama is pro-abortion plain and simple. Those who would believe otherwise are fooling themselves and weakening the pro-life movement.

Jon B| 3.13.10 @ 6:27AM

Obama's restoring of funds for pregnancy prevention measures in the world's poorest countries reduced abortions by 10's of millions in the next 8 years. Republicans lie about the Mexico City Policy by falsely claiming it funds abortions, etc. It's been illegal for US $'s to fund abortions overseas since 1973, but we DO fund pregnancy prevention measures, emergency field birth kits, etc.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_wrld.htm

1993: Repeal of the funding ban: President Clinton felt that private, foreign organizations should be able to receive USAID funding for that part of their programs that involved pregnancy prevention, even though they used their funds raised elsewhere to finance abortions or to appeal for abortion reform. On 1993-JAN-22, his second day in office, he rescinded the executive order.

2001: Reinstatement of the funding ban: On 2001-JAN-22, during his first day in office, President George W. Bush reinstated the funding ban for family planning programs run by agencies that also provide abortion services out of their own funds. His rationale was somewhat confusing. He wrote to the U.S. Agency for International Development: "It is my conviction that taxpayer funds should not be used to pay for abortions or advocate or actively promote abortion, either here or abroad." But no such funds have ever been granted. Existing legislation prevents foreign grants from being used to fund abortions or provide abortion counseling.

http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0126-05.htm

January 26, 2001: Family planning research groups, such as the Alan Guttmacher Institute, last year said that if US funding levels were restored to the $540 million (from $425 million), the following would happen: Nearly 12 million more couples in developing countries would gain access to modern methods of contraception.

There would be 4.3 million fewer unintended pregnancies, 1.5 million fewer unintended births, 500,000 fewer miscarriages; 2.2 million fewer abortions each year; 8,000 fewer deaths from unsafe abortions, 7,000 fewer deaths from other causes related to pregnancy and 92,000 fewer deaths of infants.

Bush cut funding on 1-22-2001, then cut it some more in 2002, so it was roughly 1/2 or just over $200 million. However, some of it was restored because of his 2003 Africa/Aids program, which he didn't fully fund either. Bush cut aids funding completely in early 2001, and dropped another program in Congress (around $800K more) too. then restarted the program 2 years later promising roughly the same $ amount he prevented in the first place.

frost| 1.23.09 @ 7:35AM

You've again illustrated my prior complaints, plural, about the right. Okay, what I'd deem the "extreme right"/zealots. The priorities issue, you're putting the abortion subject ahead of socialism's "redistribution of wealth" or Gitmo; ahead of socialised medicine and terrorism.....?
And his other multiple problems. Priorities?

Theresa| 1.23.09 @ 7:49AM

FOCA is exactly why the leftist media did not let the Great One's record on abortion come out to be veiwed by the public. There is so much history in O's political life that it would have been easy to show how he stands for infanticide. But that is what we have now the age in which the media does the bidding of this President. He will pass the FOCA and remove the Mexico City ban because he is what he is and that is all that he is Pro-Abortion.
I will pray for every little soul that is dispensed like garbage.

Alan Brooks| 1.23.09 @ 8:07AM

i'm a cynical old reactionary (conservative). i like abortion as it reduces the population, leaving more elbow room for curmudgeons.
sorry, just want to Find myself, let it all hang out, i want to be me--mean and detestable, despicable in every way.

Alan Brooks| 1.23.09 @ 9:07AM

HOWEVER, i dont think a woman has a right to have an abortion.

does anyone really have a right to anything?

Alan Brooks| 1.23.09 @ 9:38AM

alrighty, here's another tack:
say i was to protest with a banner reading
"A Man's Right To Choose Assisted Suicide"

it wouldnt fly. no one cares about a sick man's right (if he has that right) to have a physician assist him in terminating his life. deep down, no-one cares about the sick man or his interest in leaving this vale of tears.
because nobody really cares about him.
nobody cares much about the 'rights' of others.

Michael Roush| 1.23.09 @ 10:31AM

Those who are worrying about the "socialist redistribution of wealth" that is projected to occur under the Obama administration should take a little time to look at how wealth was redistributed upwards during the Bush years and how the policies of that administration facilitated the process. And, they might want to look at the data concerning the stagnation of middle class income during those same years. Perhaps they should consider the possibility that Obama is serious about plans to give the middle class a tax break. If by redistribution, you are talking about government stimulus spending, what do you propose as an alternative? Sit back and see where the market takes us? Do you really want to take that chance?

Alan Brooks| 1.23.09 @ 10:44AM

Mike Roush,
fine comment, but um, no connection to abortion whatsoever.

Tim| 1.23.09 @ 11:07AM

This crazy notion that everyone has a right to life will outlive even the current USA's messiah, or any other mortal of any color, creed or political affiliation.

The "Right to Life" is just that.....a bonified constitutional, and if I may say for our more atheist leaning friends....a God given Right.

So while leaders come and go.....the basic truth remains!

Dustoff| 1.23.09 @ 11:21AM

I find it odd. The dem's care more about the killers in Cuba. Then childern in the US and around the world.

If you want a abortion, fine. BUT don't ask American taxpayers to pay for it.

Obama Rules| 1.23.09 @ 11:48AM

this is something that dickhead Bush never had the balls to do.
-o.r.

WASHINGTON – Treasury Secretary-designate Timothy Geithner says President Barack Obama believes China is "manipulating" its currency, a declaration that American manufacturers have long sought in their efforts to combat America's soaring trade deficit with China.

However, Geithner also suggested that now might not be the right time to brand China as a currency manipulator under U.S. trade law, a designation that would trigger negotiations between the two countries and could result in U.S. economic sanctions against China.

"President Obama — backed by the conclusions of a broad range of economists — believes that China is manipulating its currency," Geithner wrote in answer to questions submitted to him by members of the Senate Finance Committee.

"President Obama has pledged as president to use aggressively all the diplomatic avenues open to him to seek change in China's currency," Geithner said.

He noted that while in the Senate, Obama sponsored legislation along with other senators that would overhaul the process for determining what countries are manipulating their currency to gain trade advantages in competition with the United States. That legislation would have authorized a new enforcement process "so countries like China cannot continue to get a free pass for undermining fair trade principles," Geithner said.

Alan Brooks| 1.23.09 @ 11:53AM

i'm sure there is a God given right to life; but what if i dont care? to pretend one cares is fake.
i dont lose sleep, dont skip meals worrying about abortions.
some of you may feel guilty, but my conscience is clear.

T the D | 1.23.09 @ 12:05PM

I find it sickening that Obama can stand up and try to cloud the tragedy of abortion with flowery words - and the illusion that it is somehow a benefit he's allowing us to have.

As a woman, I don't feel that I have more rights because I can walk into a clinic and murder an unborn child. What gives US the right to say that's ok?

We've gone terribly wrong in the way we think about this act of terror against our unborn.

It is completely untrue that we're free to go to a doctor and they will do whatever we ask of them - just because it's "Our" body. You cannot talk into a hospital and asked for your leg to be removed, or your apendix to be removed, your legs to be lengthened, or your breasts cut off. Doctors won't do it, because ethically they have to do what is right for their patient - even if it means telling them no.

They're not going to mutilate you because that's what you want.

And so it should be with abortion. Doctors shouldn't do it just because some woman decides she doesn't want a baby.

~T the D
http://thedrunkelephant.blogspot.com/

Tim| 1.23.09 @ 12:43PM

First they came for the unborn,
Then they came for the old,
Then they came for the handicapped,
then they came for the folks with a low IQ,
then they came for the mentally retarded,
then they came for the homeless,
then they came for the Rich,
then they came for the poor,
then they came for the whites,
and then they came for the people of color,
then they came for those that are restless and can't sleep,
then they came for those that don't loose any sleep.

Finally, they came for you and then they came for me!

No one was left........

Alan Brooks| 1.23.09 @ 1:30PM

alrighty, i'll pray for the unborn, and sleep with one eye open in case the pro-choice police break down the door in the middle of the night.

Dustoff| 1.23.09 @ 1:39PM

Alan

Grow up

frost| 1.23.09 @ 1:46PM

Mr. O-Rules...? How much you wanna bet that (and you're right, Dubya didn't do diddley about this terribls Chinese imbalance -- Bo either...) your boy, President Obama doesn't do anything either... 'ay?

Alan Brooks| 1.23.09 @ 2:30PM

alrighty will grow up. or try anyway.

agreed abortion is wrong.
its just that abortion isnt an immediate threat like crime or sickness. you dont notice abortion like you do immigrants, say.
you cant expect too much of hard pressed conservatives; you cant expect what with all the other pressures for EVERYONE to get worked up about abortion, can you?
i wasnt joking about praying though-- what else is left?

The Vile & EVIL| 1.23.09 @ 3:08PM

TIM.

You know the score. I will add a little to what you said, it's all about money. Someone is getting paid to carry out abortions.

Some one is getting paid for dropping bombs on civilians in foreign countries around the world, made up of babies, young and old women and old men.

These protesters should become volenteers in child care so people can earn money to feed all the unwanted children in America.

Then they would say why should I pay for the poor.

Michele San Pietro| 1.23.09 @ 3:09PM

It is not certainly the first time that a Democratic president is elected and spends a lot of money for the inauguration ceremony. Where's the change? For the moment, I can't see any.-

Marc Jeric| 1.23.09 @ 4:02PM

Abortion mills are big business - that's how Howard Dean became a millionaire. One such mill with one doctor, one nurse, and one receptionist can perform 40 abortions in an 8-hour day. At about $500 per abortion the small "clinic" can gross $20,000/day, or 200x$20,000=$4 million per year. Rent, supplies, salaries for nurse, receptionist, guard, utilities could cost the good doctor about half a million per year, leaving him with a net of $3.5 million. With this kind of money he then can send large contributions to his chosen Democrats or even become their party chairman. And, let us not forget, poor women get their abortions paid by the taxpayer.

afanofthis| 1.23.09 @ 7:53PM

you people say alot of stuff but don't mean it.
like this guy......
it his community, fine upstanding Christian...
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=35748111
Reality
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=11036527
so keeping buying those country western songs pay this webdeveloper dude to send pics of his privates to your daughters.
i am anonymous because i am scared.

Alan Brooks| 1.23.09 @ 8:25PM

you have reason to be scared because however crazy some of us here are, you are far more insane.

Vile & Evil| 1.23.09 @ 9:28PM

Marc Jeric.

You are spot on, it makes a change to to read something on this page, that makes sense.

Most of the people who write on here are too stupid to be on planet earth. That's why they are sorry to see tha back of George W Bush. The biggest Fool ever lived in America.

Alan Brooks| 1.23.09 @ 9:45PM

say Dubya is--or was, he um left office you might remember-- the biggest fool; is that because we are all more foolish and got what we deserved? you might ruminate on that.
now i admit (no reason not to) i'm nuts, but some of you (not the writers, the commenters) think you are normal.
nope.
so to get back to the topic of abortion, it is wrong, but is too depressing to think about, the world is a tawdry place filled with an unpleasantness that matches the depressing.
overturn row v. wade? it wouldnt make a difference to the overall morality. but go ahead. i dont want to even know abortions are being performed.

Rev Ray Dubuque| 1.23.09 @ 9:58PM

All these pro-lifers who want to tie pro-choicers to Hitler and/or the Holocaust need to get an education and learn some FACTS.
Hitler and the vast majority of those who perpetrated the holocaust had most of the very conservative views of the Lutheran and Catholic Churches that produced over 98% of the German population at the time. The top Nazi leadership from Adolf Hitler, Heinrich Himmler, Josef Goebbels, Reinhard Heydrich, Rudolf Hoess, Julius Streicher, Fritz Thyssen (who bankrolled the Nazi rise to power), Klaus Barbie, and Franz Von Papen on down to the people who actually executed the criminal orders of their superiors were CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIANS, who like today's conserservative Christians, were anti-choice, anti family planning, anti-gay, anti-liberals, anti secular education, anti separation of church and state, anti freedom of religion, anti freedom of speech.
The Nazis - who were usually conservative Christians and never liberal atheists - proved that being pro fetal life has NOTHING to do with being "pro life" beyond that stage of life!!!!!
See http://JesusWouldBeFurious.Org/RCscandal for much MORE.

"One young man carried a sign depicting Obama with a Hitler moustache and blaring, 'Stop the Abortion Holocaust: Impeach Adolf Obama.' "

Tim| 1.23.09 @ 11:00PM

Rev,

With all do respect to you as a person of the cloth, but aren't you painting millions of conservative Christians with the same brush that you use to describe a few shall we say psycho-christians and may I add no different then the Psycho Muslims and the Psycho-gays who disrupt church services etc. which is to say that in every group regardless of their culture or religion you will find a segment that is completely off their rocker...so to speak.

Most Conservative Christians I know, live their Faith in such a way that prevents them from harming others.

They may profess their Faith rather Loud sometime....but that is a far cry from wanting to place people in ovens and exterminating them.

But I get your overall point.

Peregrinus| 1.23.09 @ 11:07PM

Doug Kmiec, Bob Casey, and the whole "Catholics for Obama" crowd are de facto apostates, as is the Vice-Buffoon, Joe Biden, the "working class Irish Catholic" with the 100% pro-abortion record who Delaware digs are a multi-house compound. Fortunately, during the last campaign, a growing number of bishops spoke up on behalf of the "inconvenient truth" that pro-choice Catholic politicians are NOT in good standing and should refrain from Communion. One of the Kennedy Clan trumpeted in an op-ed piece that 54% of Catholics ignored the bishops and went with Obama. So what? Catholic moral teaching, unlike that of, say, the Episcopal Church, is not decided by popular vote or polls ... Only one of the English bishops, Saint John Fisher, and one of the royal inner circle, Saint Thomas More, stood up to Henry VIII. That's why we call them Saints.

Alan Brooks| 1.24.09 @ 12:18AM

you heard of bishop Galen,
you know most Catholics were antiCommie, not pro-NSDAP. c'mon Rev. w/ all due respect i would never become a protestant, detest & despise martin luther the originator of nazism. no no (today you have to qualify everything, it is so rote and stylized) he did not CAUSE nazism, luther was the point of departure.

God how bad is history taught?

Conservative Anchor| 1.24.09 @ 8:39AM

Abe Obama is a radical abortionist. The first piece of business he accomplished was to rescind and Executive Order banning abortions using federal funds by NGO's around the world.

Abe Obama did not support the Born Alive Protection Act while a Senator in Illinois. This act would have afforded children born alive after a botched abortion all the rights given to you and me. He did not support this even though the US Senate voted to extend those benefits to the children born alive.

Obama intends to sign the Freedom of Choice Act, which mandates that hospitals and doctors refer and perform abortions, even if their conscience will not allow it. This includes Catholic institutions, which goes against their faith. What a damn nice guy.

Abe Obama is a filthy radical abortionist.

TennesseeVolunteer| 1.24.09 @ 8:53AM

My greatest fear was that he would hide behind a 'centrist matntle' for a year or so to really fool most moderate folks of both parties.
I AM THRILLED that he is showing his true colors so soon so people of good hearts can begin to stand up. america is still america and the vast majority of people don't agree with what he is now showing, it's just going to take awhile to get that across!
Don't give up.

Mitch| 1.24.09 @ 9:01AM

No on is Pro-Abortion, but for the fanatics on the right there is no gray area. You either support their way of thinking or you are a murderer. I thought Rep. wanted Gov't out of peoples lives. But I guess that only applies to what they think and feel about a given issue.

Alan Brooks| 1.24.09 @ 9:44AM

sure, Mitch, progressives are the same way.
what they think and feel changes too much for their own good; most waver, unless they are more solid like amspec or NR, etc.
they are there and we are here for a reason-- were not stable enough to be up higher in the hierarchy.

Bill Carson| 1.24.09 @ 9:49AM

Lots of big talk here. But face it, my fellow Catholics strongly support abortion. There is no point in Washington marches when you NEVER hear a bishop or priest giving sermon about the sinners sitting a few feet from him who won't change.

Jeremiah| 1.24.09 @ 10:22AM

The post by Rev Ray Dubuque is a filthy piece of anti Christian information warfare. We perfecly know (the libs excepted) that nazism was a leftist ideology, the only one ever allied to communism, with an anti God, anti Church propaganda that was fully described in "Mein Kampf".
You don't fool us "Rev"! ... or is it "Obama Sucks" or "Blow Bob"?

Jeremiah| 1.24.09 @ 10:34AM

Rev Ray Dupuke, where the hell did you read the nazis you mentioned in your post were Christians?
The only opposition nazism ever had came from Christians and aristocratic families, while most nazi big shots had more than a passing acquaintance with socialism and marxism.
You are a fake, a liar and you're just trying to stuff the database for any future Google search on "links between Christians and Hitler".
You don't fool us, dumb liberal jerk.

Alan Brooks| 1.24.09 @ 10:43AM

Nazism was a proletarian movement first and foremost.
it would never have been able to arouse the BASE instincts of the masses without being such.

Jeremiah| 1.24.09 @ 10:43AM

And the nazis gassed thousands of physically or mentally disabled people, including children and elder people. Is it what Christians in America or elsewhere stand for? Can't you see the contradiction here, sorry excuse for a reverend?
Are you the Rev. Wright?

Alan Brooks| 1.24.09 @ 10:45AM

dont you tell me anything, punky, my father was in the war.

Another Tim| 1.24.09 @ 10:48AM

Mitch,

When does life begin?

And what is the purpose of government? Here's one answer:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

I submit to you that the right to life is the most fundamental "Blessing of Liberty."

mattyc| 1.24.09 @ 10:57AM

All this debate is well and good, but whether abortion is legal or not, people will continue to get them. Making abortion illegal does nothing towards actually abolishing the practice itself.

Jeremiah| 1.24.09 @ 11:04AM

How about making adoption easier?

Tim| 1.24.09 @ 11:05AM

Tennessee Volunteer,
I think you hit the nail on the head. But still, it is rather astonishing as to just how fast the mask came off. In the first week for corn sake.

This fast self inflicted exposing can only happen when the inner truth is light years from someone's stated rhetoric and when their arrogance is so great that they assumed the masses are dumber than they really are.

Case in point...Obama signs an order before lights and camaras on how his administration will deal strongly with the ills of Lobbyists....then within twenty four hours he signs a waiver for one of his inner circle picks and says the new order doesn't apply to him.

Say what? Are you kidding me?
We were born at night but not last night!

Then Obama stares down a reporter who asks a hard question....oh excuse me, that reporter must have missed the new order that forbids any hard questions to be asked of the messiah.

In the words of Obama himself, You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.....regardless of it's race, color, creed or sexual orientation.

Jeremiah| 1.24.09 @ 11:06AM

... so you don't have to buy babies overseas?

Jeremiah| 1.24.09 @ 11:10AM

How many months before Mugabe sleeps in the Lincoln Room?

Jeremiah| 1.24.09 @ 11:15AM

... and how many years before Ayaan Hirsi Ali obtains a green card?

Buckley| 1.24.09 @ 11:19AM

I have attended the Pro-Life march, and I will say that I was struck by the hyprocracy of many in the march - pro-life for the unborn, but not in regards to war or the death penalty. The Pro-life people ought not worry about Obama, they have had 20 years of GOP presidents since 1980 and have had since at least 2005 a Conservative dominated Supreme Court, and the GOP HAS DONE NOTHING TO OVERTURN ROE V. WADE. The Pro-Life group has been duped by the GOP. The reality is this: If you want to end abortions, teach your own children that it is wrong, stop hoping the government will do for you what you can do on your own.

Bob| 1.24.09 @ 11:20AM

Actually, Jeremiah, it wasn't me. I don't spew the kind of hate that you do. For the record, I denounce any hate rhetoric -- and there is an argument it has appeared on both side. Your statement that Nazism was a leftist ideology is just hateful and wrong as saying that it was conservative Christian in nature. There is actually an argument on both sides. But then again, reason is not in abundance here.

Tennessee, you need to read more about Obama. It doesn't sound as if you've read his books. He is not an ideologue -- he is a pragmatist who believes in representing his constituency. If his constituency is highly liberal, he will vote that way. Given that he believes he represents the entire U.S., he will behave that way.

To be honest, I would like him to be more ideological and less willing to please. But he grew up without a father and his father figures were his older teachers who he pleased by doing well in school. That's one of the reasons he is choosing the smartest, older people to be around him -- he has done that his entire life.

He will be centrist except on his campaign promises which he will fulfill because of the relationship he had with his mother and his teachers.

Mike S| 1.24.09 @ 11:44AM

Abortion is not a simple issue. Fetuses (unborn children) clearly have a right to be born. But it is not clear that fetuses should have the same rights as 8 year old children. Mothers clearly have a right to control their bodies. Sometimes the rights of mothers and fetuses conflict.

Any abortion is a tragic event. But outlawing abortions in all circumstances drives abortions underground, resulting in septic abortions and deaths of moms and unborn babies.

The government should be able to place reasonable restrictions on abortion, but an absolute ban does not prevent abortions and has bad consequences. We should all work to decrease the need for abortions by promoting intact families, sexual abstinence among teens, birth control and family planning.

Just my point of view.

Tim| 1.24.09 @ 11:55AM

Bob,

How do you explain and what do you attribute
Obama's u turn within twenty four hours of signing the new Lobbyist order and then signing a waiver for one of his inner circle picks?

...and oh yes, how do you explain Obama's rhetoric on an open and transparent Gov and then within the first few days of taking over....getting mad at reporters who asked though questions?

The man was a community organizer and defended Acorn's activities as a lawyer for them.

You don't get much more left then that.

He didn't organize his community for Sunday picnics with Bush. No, he organized people against his perception that this country was and has hurt poor folks and felt that he needed to spark a revolution against this imperial establishment called the USA and replace it with a socialistic/ uthopian rule where the once poor and abused will get their fair share because he will make certain they get it from the US treasury.

I do not agree with Obama's world view but I can respect him if he just is himself.
Hense, I respect him for taking the mask off on day two and letting the real Obama through.

It was refreshing for a change.

Dan| 1.24.09 @ 12:02PM

Google "the Negro Project" and you'll find plenty of interesting information about the origins and motivations of PlannedParenthood and Margaret Sanger. That Obama is helping to further her eugenic aims is a tragic irony. It would make perfect sense if he got an award from the KKK or the Nazis. They have no better accomplice than Obama in their goal of killing off people of color.

Bob| 1.24.09 @ 12:14PM

Tim, let me answer your questions. It is interesting that most ideologues cannot understand Obama because he operates in a way that is foreign to them.

Regarding the waiver, it was pragmatism just as I explained. Obama is NOT ideological and will therefore let reason have a high place in his decision making process. He obviously determined it was more important to have his particular skills than being ideological about his lobbying order. Again, ideological individuals have a difficult time understand this behavior.

Regarding transparent government, it is again a matter of pragmatism. It is certainly much more open than either Bush or Clinton or Reagan for that matter. But you ideological individuals cannot understand balance. You either must be completely transparent or not transparent at all. His promise was that he was going to be the most transparent -- not completely transparent.

Regarding Acorn's activities, it is only the Rush and Hannity crowd of extremists who don't understand that getting people to vote in a democracy is important. Yes, some of their activities led to corruption, but so did the push-pull polls of Republicans. Again, you being so ideological prevents you from seeing that Acorn accomplished a lot of good and some wrong.

Regarding "hurting poor folk", it is absolutely a fact that under both Reagan and Bush that the rich got richer and the poor did not advance. Tax cuts helped primarily the rich and we have a declining middle class in this country. While I profoundly disagree with Obama's solution to that problem, it is fact and we need to address it since failure to do that leads to anarchy. My solution would be to get government out of the incentive business and go with a completely flat tax that would include social security and medicare so that there is no progressive or regressive influence. That way, the market can determine the outcome instead of politicians and ideologues.

Sam| 1.24.09 @ 12:40PM

Prosecute miscariages - a life is a life! Spontaneous or elective, abortion is murder. Take the argument to its logical conclusion. The ladies have got to pay no matter what. Get em, pro-lifers! Get 'em now!! While you're at it, dream up more non-issues to distract the American people from the urgent crises at hand.

Tim| 1.24.09 @ 12:43PM

Bob,

I worked for the left many years ago, so I know how it works and how they do things. I became a conservative after coming to realize how hypocritical the far left really was.

Don't get me wrong, some on the so called right are corrupt as well as we have seen.

As to Obama, I saw through him a few years ago and Rush and Hannity had nothing to do with it.

I read the books thank-you.

January 30, 2009 will be the 100 year anniversary of Saul Alinsky's birth. He was born in Chicago on January 9, 1909.

Now, for those that don't know, Mr. Alinsky became known as the father of Community Organizing and Obama used Alinsky's teaching as a community organizer and teacher himself.

Some of Alinsky's work was positive in that he shed light on the brutality toewards some workers during the 1920s----pre labor law days......

Alinsky believed that you use democracy to achieve your socialistic agenda, plain and simple.
He was a socialist but believed you use democracy to get there.

Every True conservative needs to read Alinsky's book 'Rules for Radicals" and then draw your own conclusion about Obama and what he really believes in and how he got into the White House.

That said, I agree with you Bob, that we have to address the real economic problems that face our country.

But punishing the achievers won't work. Taxing folks to death won't work. And having Uncle Sam tuck you into bed at night won't solve the deep rooted probems facing our country.

People have to pull themselves up by the boot straps and get off their rump and make it happen for themselves. That's America!

Granted, where help is really needed, Uncle Sam should be there ready to lend a hand.....

Tia L. Wilson| 1.24.09 @ 1:09PM

You pro-lifers are a bunch of crazies who are a bunch of dogs sticking your noses where they don't belong.

Tim| 1.24.09 @ 1:13PM

Saul Alinsky in 1971 wrote in his prologue, to his book "Rules for Radicals"

"There is another reason for working inside the system. Dostoevski said that taking a new step is what people fear most. Any revolutionary change must be preceded by a passive, affirmative, non challenging attitude toward change among the mass of our people. They must feel frustrated, so defeated, so lost, so futureless in the prevailing system that they are willing to let go of the past and change the future.

This acceptance is the reformation essential to any revolution. To bring on this reformation requires that the organizer work inside the system, among not only the middle class but the forty percent of American Families--more than senety million people---whose income range from $5,000 to $10,000 a year in 1971.

They cannot be dismissed by labeling them blue collar or hard hat. They will continue to be relatively passive and slightly challenging. If we fail to communicate with them, if we don't encourage them to form alliances with us, they will move to the Right. Maybe they will anyway, but let's not let it happen by default"

The clear set of rules in the book were codified and geared to be used by "Community Organizers" with the eye on creating revolution
against the current American way of life.

One of Obama's early spiritual mentors was Saul Alinsky.

That's fine. To each his own.
More power to him!

But just don't tell me the guy is not a socialist radical in sheep's clothing....it insult's my intelligence and that of millions of other Americans.

Keith Johnsen| 1.24.09 @ 1:20PM

Until every pro-life organization, politician, and proselytizer comes down firmly and publicly against all forms of capital punishment, then they will get no one's respect and be looked at as just another hypocritical, fringe group of whiners.

Keith Johnsen| 1.24.09 @ 1:24PM

Also, I don't think it needs to be said, but this board is full of straight-up CRAZIES! People are still throwing around The Negro Project and socialism? Is this all you have in the quiver? You lost. Make the best of it, find some electable candidates, and be dignified in your dissent. You're already on the margins, conservatives, letting abortion and Guantanamo define your cause will only result in bigger margins for us in 2012.

Tim| 1.24.09 @ 1:29PM

Keith,
My friend, what you are missing here is that when the voting masses, that count, realize that they were dupped, they will counter revolt.....so it is Obama's forces that will be defeated in 2010 and 2012.

But that is always the case when someone or some group is elected under a false pretense.

Does the far left really think that the truth could be supressed in the information age.

Not even Obama can prevent that.......

But nice try any way!

Amy | 1.24.09 @ 1:41PM

If you say you are prolife and mean it, then you also need to:
1) Oppose all war
2) Start adopting all the unwanted children out there instead of standing in front of planned parenthood centers.
3) Support a living wage so people know they can actually take care of their children
4) Support wide distribution of contraception so unwanted pregnancies decrease
5) Support much greater funding for schools
6) Support greater rights for working parents: flex time, fully paid maternal leave for at least 6 months, public nursing everywhere, etc
7) Gay marriage
Anyone who says they are "pro-life" but opposed to all of the above is just a hateful hypocrite. Ironically, liberals are far more consistent in trying to apply family values to policies and our communities than conservatives are.

LJ| 1.24.09 @ 1:44PM

Most on this site are correct. We on the pro-choice side voted for PRESIDENT OBAMA with the knowledge that he would first and foremost repeal the gag rule.

He did just that. Now we are looking for further moves to allow greater latitude in reproductive rights throughout American healthcare.

Thats why we voted for for him.

LCawyer| 1.24.09 @ 1:56PM

Pres. Obama claims to support "a woman's right to choose." As a woman, I choose NOT to have my hard-earned tax dollars go to support abortions, which I consider the killing of innocents. Why doesn't Pres. Obama support my choice?

Marlon| 1.24.09 @ 2:46PM

Alan,
It's easy to not care about abortion when you're not the one threatened by an abortionist's scalpel and forceps.

Tim| 1.24.09 @ 2:58PM

Amy,

Would you consider adding a number 8 to your list?

8) Teach and promote that refraining from having sex at an early age is a healthy choice and is OK not to engage in sex as a teen.

In fact the teen years could be better served participating in sports, school, and developing people skills while dating and save the bedroom activities for a litte later in life.....

say when you can make more mature decisions about the consequences of getting pregnant etc.

Amy| 1.24.09 @ 3:32PM

Tim,

It is perfectly reasonable to TEACH about abstinence as one of many ways of handling sexuality. It as, however, proven to be ineffective. Contraception has to be taught as well, along with the unequivocal statement that the ONLY way to protect oneself 100% is through abstinence. While a true statement, it does NOTHING to hinder teenage sex. Teen sex has happened for thousands of years. The only difference now is that we don't marry at 13 or 14 years of age anymore (not the I am advocating teen marriage! I am certainly not). The most important way to decrease the actual ACT of teen sex is to parent in a way that sets boundaries and at the same time is NOT moralistic and authoritarian. Spanking, for example, leads to statistically higher rates of teen sex and sexual violence and abnormalities than parenting without using violence. The best way to decrease unwanted pregnancy (and therefore the rate of abortion) is through avid use of contraception. And there is just no evidence that supports the contrary.

Michele San Pietro| 1.24.09 @ 3:44PM

Clinton immediately reinstated abortion, Obama immediately finances pro-abortion groups. I hoped Obama would have been a horse of a different color in comparison to Clinton, but he just seems to be a Clinton of a different color.

Bob| 1.24.09 @ 4:28PM

Michele, I knew it would be a social conservative that would bring up race. You are an example of why the Republican party is almost totally comprised of white people.

Issac| 1.24.09 @ 4:33PM

LJ:
You and a few others may have base your vote for Obama base on your pro death/anti white male view of the world, but the reports I am getting again is that for most of those who based their vote on abortion, once again it was the pro life side who again had the incremental margin of advantage. You would think that all this fuss about us pro lifers "losing" the past pres election would be enough to snuff us out once an for all....sorry to disappoint those with such a dream.

Tim| 1.24.09 @ 5:01PM

And the other fact is that while a majority do support a women's right to choose to have an abortion, the debate becomes much different when you ask folks about "Partial Birth Abortion" which nearly two thirds are against, yet Obama is for.

The same goes for Tax funded Abortions for the poor. The majority don't support that either.

And something that has been polled at great length but seldom covered by any media is the fact that young people in greater numbers are embracing the culture of life.

osalt| 1.24.09 @ 5:09PM

Obama is right about a woman's right to choose.

Government has no right to interfere with a womans reproductive system. Also we need to think about the responsibilities of society to pay for the welfare of these childeren.

Bob| 1.24.09 @ 5:27PM

Tim, perhaps you can provide a link to the poll that says that young people in general (not just evangelicals) are "embracing the culture of life". I've seen polls on evangelicals but not the population in general. Regarding tax funded abortions for the poor, perhaps you can do the same and show that the reason for it is moral rather than just cost. I'll be awaiting your intellectual response.

mulp| 1.24.09 @ 5:48PM

"Of course, the March for Life is different from most other political protests. Families with small children are everywhere."

Yeah, they were like the marches against the wars that have been a long tradition in Washington and many other cities. Funny that conservatives dismiss those people demonstrating and speaking for innocent life as uninformed or even un-Amaerican and anti-American.

And the media has sanitized with the full support of the Bush administration of war's horrors. The US has gone from being faced with the blood and horror of war on the news to the conservative right to life mindset of any innocent man, woman, or child killed or maimed is either a past, present, or future terrorist, and for those US soldiers killed, they are heros, and those maimed are malingerers who lied their way into the military with mental defects, brain damage, and missing limbs who need to be discharged as disgraces to America.

But then we have the matter of social justice and collective punishment. The poor woman who can't afford the burden of pregnancy, and less so a child with special needs or even a normal child, transmits her guilt to the child the right to lifers demand she bear. When her child is sick or has bad teeth, it is her guilt that condemns the child to suffering and even death, all in the name of valuing life. Hey, making sure all fertile women are in good health and all children healthy is just too great a burden on right to lifers. Who are happy to point to the suffering child as the failure of the poor mother without a high school degree from being a teen mother as the root cause of all the problems. That and the liberals who don't rejoice in that teen mom giving birth to a child she can't care for alone. But hey, the kid has been born, so the child no longer has a right to life, unless he can fight for it, preferrable with a gun, of conservatives have their way.

mulp| 1.24.09 @ 5:55PM

"The same goes for Tax funded Abortions for the poor. The majority don't support that either."

I wonder, if people were asked if they approved of funding the killing innocent women and children with missiles, bombs, and rockets fired by pilots operating remote UAVs from the Midwest, would the majority who self describe as a supporter of Right to Life say "yes," or "no."

Steve| 1.24.09 @ 6:22PM

For a long time, public opinion has been against conservatives on reproductive issues. In an increasingly secular society (thank heavens!), this issue only serves to rally fundamentalist christians conservatives under the false assumption that their leaders will actually be foolish enough to commit political suicide by overturning Roe v. Wade.

Reality| 1.24.09 @ 7:03PM

Men have become opinionated about abortion, how about telling their male friends when they pick up these poor uneducated women to use a condom.

Men like to have sex, sex produce children, you don't like abortion use contreceptives you bunch of F...ing monkies.

For these over rightious writers, think about it how many women have you had sex with, did you use contreciptives, do you know if the woman was using contreceptives, do you know if the woman became pregnant?.

How many of these over rightious people were having affairs with another woman they got pregnant. You bunch of hippocrets pretending to be saints.

It's a way of condemnation of women who know they cannot feed these children. Why don't these people condem sex outside marriage, it would be too inconvient to men. It's simple stop having sex with women you have no intentions of marring.

It takes two to produce a child, and if you do feed your kids, that way women would not need to abort kids they can't feed. Stop having sex that way you can't get anyone pregnant.

Nither Odinsson| 1.24.09 @ 7:31PM

Abortion is Murder.

g| 1.24.09 @ 7:43PM

I noticed the president spoke of reducing the "need for abortion." That doesn't make sense. There may be a "demand for abortion," or a "desire for abortion." There is no "need for abortion (except perhaps in the rarest cases.)

Tim| 1.24.09 @ 7:46PM

Amy,
Thanks for your comments, and you are right that young people have been rolling in the hay since day one.
A good start would be if we can develope a culture to where we collectively do not promote casual sex among our teens but rather focus on young men and women to refrain and be more responsible and focus their early years in directions other than sex.

The problem is difficult and complex as we can see by the vast amounts of opinions shared on this thread.

I think the point is to focus on responsibility and reason. I think this whole notion of a culture of life is based on protecting everyone that is vunerable....the old, sick,handicapped, mentally challenged and the unborn.

Amy and others bring up good points especially at it pertains to the death penalty.

We are not going to solve this abortion issue on this thread but I for one would like to see our society move toward becoming more of a defender of all life at all of its stages, colors, creeds and socio economic status.
Naturally, men have been a big part of this problem....and have to become part of the solution.

bob| 1.24.09 @ 8:22PM

Hey Reality.....Why don't more women take it up the bu.tt, they would not have to k.ill babies then. All problems solved.

John G. Malone| 1.24.09 @ 8:53PM

I was at the march. The truth will win. If it does not happen in my life time, so be it. I will consider it the privilege of my life to march and work with the wonderful people your article talks about.

Jeremiah| 1.24.09 @ 9:33PM

Bob, too many men used your suggested method and guess what? You were born. Didn't solve any problem.
You are rude and you have an ugly mind. Spare us your sexual preferences, you moron. You're a liberal lost on a civilized blog.

Rev. Ray Dubuque| 1.24.09 @ 9:44PM

Jerimiah, if you want to question people who have studied the Holocaust, why don't you start by doing a little reading?
If you don't believe ME when I say that Hitler (and most of his closest allies) was a Catholic, maybe you will believe HIM:
"I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator." Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, p. 46
"What we have to fight for. . . is the freedom and independence of the fatherland, so that our people may be enabled to fulfill the mission assigned to it by the Creator." [Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf, pp. 125]
"This human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existence of a religious belief."
[Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, pp.152]
"Adolf Hitler recognized at an early stage the potential for Catholic resistance to National Socialism. In Mein Kampf (meaning "My Struggle"), he wrote that a confrontation (i.e. in the open) with the Catholic Church in Germany would prove disastrous." (to his NAZI cause).
'In early Feb. of 1933, he declared in the Reichstag (parliament) that the churches were to be an integral part of German national life.' " . . . The important thing about Hitler's faith isn't his relationship with God (which is between him and God) but his relationship to the 98% of Germans who considered themselves "Christian". Shrewd politician that he was, Hitler knew it was best that he appear to be a "Christian" like them, and it was crucial that his church not deny him that political asset - which is exactly what the church should have done had it been faithful instead of cowardly and complicit in this deceit.
"The National Government will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built up. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality and the family as the basis of national life."
"The National Government regards the two Christian confessions as factors essential to the soul of the German people. It will respect the contracts they have made with the various regions. It declares its determination to leave their rights intact. In the schools, the government will protect the rightful influence of the Christian bodies. We hold the spiritual forces of Christianity to be indispensable elements in the moral uplift of most of the German people. We hope to develop friendly relations with the Holy See" ( addressed the Reichstag on March 23, 1933)
"The Government of the Reich regards Christianity as the unshakable foundation of the morals and moral code of the nation." "The rights of the churches will not be diminished." ( from The Speeches of Adolph Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1, pg. 369-372 (London, Oxford University Press, 1942 - edition of 1969.)
"National Socialism, he proclaimed, has always affirmed that it is determined to take the Christian Churches under the protection of the State. For their part the churches cannot for a second doubt that they need the protection of the State, and that only through the State can they be enabled to fulfill their religious mission. Indeed, the churches demand this protection from the State." [Hitler - in his first radio address to the German people after coming to power (1933).]
"The fact that the Vatican is concluding a treaty with the new Germany means the acknowledgement of the National Socialist state by the Catholic Church. This treaty shows the whole world clearly and unequivocally that the assertion that National Socialism [Nazism] is hostile to religion is a lie." Adolf Hitler, 22 July 1933, writing to the Nazi Party (quoted in John Cornwell's "Hitler's Pope" )
A few days after the signing of the Lateran Treaty, Hitler wrote an article for the Volkischer Reobachter, published on February 22, 1929, warmly welcoming the agreement. "The fact that the Curia is now making its peace with Fascism," he wrote, "shows that the Vatican trusts the new political realities far more than did the former liberal democracy with which it could not come to terms." Turning to the German situation, he rebuked the Center Party leadership for its recalcitrant attachment to democratic politics. "By trying to preach that democracy is still in the best interests of German Catholics, the Center Party ... is placing itself in stark contradiction to the spirit of the treaty signed today by the Holy See." The conclusion of his rant contained a gross distortion as well as a remarkable intuition of future opportunities: "The fact that the Catholic Church has come to an agreement with Fascist Italy." he went on, "... Proves beyond doubt that the Fascist world of ideas is closer to Christianity y than those of Jewish liberalism or even atheistic Marxism, to which the so-called Catholic Center Party sees itself so closely bound, to the detriment of Christianity today and our German people."
"While we destroyed the (liberal Catholic) "Centre Party", we have not only brought thousands of priests back into the Church, but to millions of respectable people we have restored their faith in their religion and in their priests.
The union of the Evangelical Church in a single Church for the whole Reich, the Concordat with the Catholic Church, these are but milestones on the road which leads to the establishment of a useful relation and a useful co-operation between the Reich and the two Confessions." Adolf Hitler, in his New Year Message on 1 Jan. 1934

"I know that here and there the objection has been raised: Yes, but you have deserted Christianity. No, it is not that we have deserted Christianity; it is those who came before us who deserted Christianity. We have only carried through a clear division between politics, which have to do with terrestrial things, and religion, which must concern itself with the celestial sphere. There has been no interference with the doctrine of the Confessions or with their religious freedom, nor will there be any such interference. On the contrary the State protects religion, though always on the one condition that religion will not be used as a cover for political ends.
"There may have been a time when even parties founded on the ecclesiastical basis were a necessity. (Between World War I & II, the Catholic "Center Party" had been one of the most powerful political parties in Germany.) At that time Liberalism was opposed to the Church, while Marxism was anti-religious. But that time is past. National Socialism neither opposes the church, nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary, it stands on the ground of a real Christianity."
"The Church's interests cannot fail to coincide with ours alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of to-day, in our fight against the Bolshevist culture, against an atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for the consciousness of a community in our national life, for the conquest of hatred and disunion between the classes, for the conquest of civil war and unrest, of strife and discord. These are not anti-Christian, these are Christian principles."
Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered at Koblenz, August 26, 1934.
" I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews, I am fighting for the Lord's work."
Adolf Hitler, Reichstag Speech, 1936
"And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of his estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary, He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God."
Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf, pp.174
"Providence has caused me to be Catholic, and I know therefore how to handle this Church."
Adolf Hitler, reported to have said in Berlin in 1936, on the enmity of the Catholic Church to National Socialism."
Impressed with the organization of the Papacy, Hitler is quoted as saying the following: "I learned much from the Order of the Jesuits…until now there has never been anything more grandiose on the earth than the hierarchical organization of the Catholic Church. I transferred much of this organization into my own party."
Hermann Rauschning, Hitler Said To Me (1939), 266-267.
"I believe that it was God’s will to send a youth from here into the Reich, to let him grow up, to raise him to be the leader of the nation so as to enable him to lead back his homeland into the Reich….In three days the Lord has smitten them….And to me the grace was given on the day of the betrayal to be able to unite my homeland [Austria] with the Reich….I would now give thanks to Him who let me return to my homeland in order than I might now lead it into my German Reich. Tomorrow, may every German recognize the hour, and measure its import and bow in humility before the Almighty who in a few weeks has wrought a miracle upon us. [Closing speech of the campaign at Vienna, 9 April 1938]"
"I believe in Providence and I believe Providence to be just. Therefore I believe that Providence always rewards the strong, the industrious, and the upright."
Adolf Hitler, in a speech to National Socialist women at the Nuremberg Parteitag of [11 Sept. 1936]
"We National Socialists, too, have deep in our hearts our own faith. We cannot do otherwise. No man can mould the history of peoples or of the world unless he has upon his will and his capacities the blessing of Providence."
Adolf Hitler, to Nazi leaders on 2 June 1937, as reported by a correspondent of the "Daily Telegraph":
"In this hour I would ask of the Lord God only this: that, as in the past, so in the years to come He would give His blessing to our work and our action, to our judgement and our resolution, that He will safeguard us from all false pride and from all cowardly servility, that He may grant us to find the straight path which His Providence has ordained for the German people, and that He may ever give us the courage to do the right, never to falter, never to yield before any violence, before any danger . . . I am convinced that men who are created by God should live in accordance with the will of the Almighty. . . If Providence had not guided us I could often never have found these dizzy paths . . . Thus it is that we National Socialists, too, have in the depths of our hearts our faith. We cannot do otherwise: no man can fashion world-history or the history of peoples unless upon his purpose and his powers there rests the blessings of this Providence."
Adolf Hitler, in a speech at Wurzburg on 27 June 1937
"Amongst the accusations which are directed against Germany in the so called democracies is the charge that the National Socialist State is hostile to religion. In answer to that charge I should like to make before the German people the following solemn declaration:
1. No one in Germany has in the past been persecuted because of his religious views (Einstellung), nor will anyone in the future be so persecuted . . .
2. The Churches are the greatest landed proprietors after the State . . . Further, the Church in the National Socialist State is in many ways favoured in regard to taxation, and for gifts, legacies, &c;., it enjoys immunity from taxation.
It is therefore, to put mildly-- effrontery when especially foreign politicians make bold to speak of hostility to religion in the Third Reich. . .
I would allow myself only one question: what contributions during the same period have France, England, or the United States made through the State from the public funds?
3. The National Socialist State has not closed a church, nor has it prevented the holding of a religious service, nor has it ever exercised any influence upon the form of a religious service. It has not exercised any pressure upon the doctrine nor on the profession of faith of any of the Confessions. In the National Socialist State anyone is free to seek his blessedness after his own fashion .
There are ... ten thousands of priests of all the Christian Confessions who perform their ecclesiastical duties just as well as or probably better than the political agitators without ever coming into conflict with the laws of the State.
But on one point it is well that there should be no uncertainty: the German priest as servant of God we shall protect, the priest as political enemy of the German State we shall destroy."
Adolf Hitler, a speech in the Reichstag on 30 Jan., 1939
[ That last sentence sums up Hitler's stand on the priesthood. Rather than standing for atheism, as today's Christians would like, Hitler attacked the priesthood only to the extent that they got in his way.]

"When Hitler narrowly escaped assassination in Munich in November, 1939, he gave the credit to providence. 'Now I am completely content,' he exclaimed. 'The fact that I left the Burgerbraukeller earlier than usual is a corroboration of Providence's intention to let me reach my goal.' Catholic newspapers throughout the Reich echoed this, declaring that it was a miraculous working of providence that had protected their Fuëhrer. One cardinal, Michael Faulhaber, sent a telegram instructing that a Te Deum be sung in the cathedral of Munich, 'to thank Divine Providence in the name of the archdiocese for the Fuëhrer's fortunate escape. ' The Pope also sent his special personal congratulations."
"The national government will maintain and defend the foundations on which the power of our nation rests. It will offer strong protection to Christianity as the very basis of our collective morality. Today Christians stand at the head of our country. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit. We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theatre, and in the press-in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during recent years."
( a Radio Broadcast July 22, 1933; from My New Order. ) (The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1. pp. 871-872, Oxford University Press,London, 1942)

Jeremiah| 1.24.09 @ 9:48PM

And don't start asking for links and bossing us around if we don't provide them ASAP. Are you Obama's Obersturmführer? You need links? Search the web! By the way we're still waiting for the proof of your claims re the Palins. Liberal punk.

Jeremiah| 1.24.09 @ 9:53PM

Hey Dupuke!
Where did you get all this propaganda? On a Russian website? Nice try, some people will fall for it. There goes Google's fairness in information...

Jeremiah| 1.24.09 @ 9:57PM

The Vatican rescued thousands of Jews, Golda Meir and Ezer Weizmann acknowledged it. The only religion that Hitler ever considered as worthwhile was Islam. As a matter of fact there was a muslim SS Brigade during WWII and some of those muslims were used as guards in concentration camps.

Jeremiah| 1.24.09 @ 10:01PM

All that crap reminds me of the notorious Rev Wright nonsense. A nice example of what a Christian should be. Maybe Obama shares the same ideology.

Ran| 1.24.09 @ 10:05PM

"Bob [ ...you] are rude and you have an ugly mind. Spare us your sexual preferences, you moron. You're a liberal lost on a civilized blog.

There are times when I wince, cringe and laugh... every now and then, Jeremiah, I have to agree with you.

James| 1.24.09 @ 11:15PM

While I lean toward "Pro-Life", I have yet to hear any Pro-Life "activist" answer this question: If abortion is banned, what is the legal penalty for a woman who chooses to have an illegal abortion? If your answer is, "No penalty, because she is a victim, too", then what if she refuses to name the person who performed the abortion? Is there a penalty for that? I just can't figure out what "Pro-Lifers" want the punishment for illegal abortion to be? They never, ever bring it up. But, it is vital to the debate, in my humble opinion.

Nick| 1.25.09 @ 12:17AM

James,

I as a pro-lifer, I think the penalties should be what they were before Roe. Each state was different, but what I've read about it, the doctor went to jail for 2 to 5 years. I think he could be sentenced to up to 10 years. Mothers rarely, if ever, were prosecuted. Mostly because they were dead. That was how the authorities found out, they would find the body in a motel room or apartment. They weren't out doing stings on abortionists.

Nick| 1.25.09 @ 1:06AM

Reality @ 7:03 pm said:

"You bunch of hippocrets pretending to be saints"

Oh no! I wouldn't want to be a HIPPOCRET.

Isn't a hippocret those big fat things that sit in rivers with those 4 big teeth?

Nick| 1.25.09 @ 1:34AM

Hey Rev. Ray,

Went through the novel you wrote. All I see is a polititian trying to be all things to all constituencies. Kind of like how JFK was a liberal when he was New England, pro civil rights when he was in the inner-city, and anti civil rights when he was in the south.

I judge people on their actions not their words. Was Hitler being a good Catholic when he killed Catholic priests in the death camps?

But what should I expect from someone who quotes "Hitler's Pope", a complete lie from cover to cover, and authored by an anti-Catholic bigot.

Nice try rev., they were National SOCIALISTS!! And "No one can be at the same time a sincere Catholic and a true Socialist." - Pope Pius XI (1931)

Well you can call me R Ray, or you can call me R Jay, or you can call me Ray Ray, but you's doesn't hafta call me Johnson!

Interloper| 1.25.09 @ 2:55AM

I predict that with a moderate in charge, more of the electorate will move to the choice position on abortion. A majority already has, precluding the ideal society in which women are forced to bear children the far Right seeks. President Obama makes it clear that keeping abortion legal is not encouraging abortion. With his example, more Americans will move off the fence, increasing the ranks of that majority.

Furthermore, the slander that President Obama voted for 'homicide against infants' while in the Illinois legislature did not take during the campaign and it will not take now. Informed people know he voted against a bill that would have equated late term abortions with murder, depriving women of the option regardless of the circumstances.

Another thing that is going to help is better teaching of biology. Any adult should know that a zygote is not a person. The minute someone starts claiming that no one should take him or her seriously.

A voice in the wilderness | 1.25.09 @ 4:53AM

"Abortion: A Choice Against Women"

"Carol Everett used to run an abortion clinic. She is now pro-life, and she tells how women are not given the full truth about the abortion procedure. When they ask "Will it be painful?" they are told "No", even though serious pain is involved. When they ask, "Is it a baby?" they are told "No". Many women have found out only AFTER their abortion that their baby already had arms, legs, and sucked its thumb, before they aborted it. The clinic workers are told not to volunteer any other information if they are not asked. Why can't we respect women enough to tell them the whole
truth?"

"It has also been proven that complications and deaths of women from abortions are UNDER-REPORTED, and recorded under different causes than abortion."

http://www.abortionessay.com/files/choice.html

Brian| 1.25.09 @ 7:10AM

When faced with a difficult pregnancy and the possibility of a life for the fetus/baby of profound sickness and pain a loving mother is confronted with an impossible choice. This is the very complicated situation that many women find themselves in. Their desire to choose stems not from self-interest but from a profound love for their unborn child. The easy, and over-simplified, pro-life argument is that theses women are making a choice base on selfishness. That is almost never the case. Who are we to sit in judgement of these women? Be thankful if you have never been confronted with such an impossible choice, and have compassion for those who have to choose.

TenneseeVolunteer| 1.25.09 @ 7:32AM

Bob and Rev.,
When I am not sure if people are telling the truth, I ignore what they say and only watch what the do.
bob, of course I haven't read his books. Since his words don't match up to his actions, I can eliminate the words-it makes life much simpler.
Rev- same for Hitler, sure he was a Catholic at one time, so was Castro but their actions don't match up with Mother theresa or my Mom
In a week, the Pres. has shown exactly where he is going, as left as his voting record was inthe senate. He is only using centrism as a mask.

Bob| 1.25.09 @ 9:44AM

Jeremiah/Ran -- The fact that you assume someone else posting with my name was me shows your shallowness, hate, banality and lack of critical thinking ability.

Bob| 1.25.09 @ 9:49AM

Tennessee, if you ignore his words how do you know his words don't match up to his actions? If you actually read him, you'd understand EXACTLY what he will do. He is very predictable to those that have studied him.

Tim| 1.25.09 @ 10:12AM

Good Sunday Morning to you Rev,

Since you seem to be an expert on how one crazed 20th century former Catholic/Christian thought and why he did what he did to humanity.......

I am really curious....

How do you view the "few" modern day muslims that go off the reservation and start decapitating and destroying human life in the name of their God?

And do these "few" misguided muslims really get to roll in the hay with seven beautiful virgins once they blow themselves up in a Tel Aviv cafe full of innocent women and children?

What would "Karl Marx" think of Joseph Stalin?

Would Karl Marx, the father of socialism, approve of Stalin's world view regarding the tenents of his Socialistic teachings?

Would Karl Marx, just to name a few, endorse Stalin's and Lennin's, and Mao's interpretation of socialist thought?

I would enjoy your Sunday Sermon on these three probing questions or did your Doctoral studies only focus on 20th century crazed and psycho Christian/Catholics?

Incidently, give my best to Rev Wright.

Michele San Pietro| 1.25.09 @ 3:18PM

Bob, I didn't bring up race at all, I just wished to make a wisecrack, which was anything but racist. I have always been against all forms of racism, just like the Republican Party, who was founded in order to fight against slavery, and who is not made up of only whites at all.

Bob| 1.25.09 @ 4:09PM

Michele, the fact that you didn't mean anything racist in your statement is the problem. The fact is that race came to your mind. You have made enough comments here for me to assume you are not a racist, so please do not take it in that vein. However, if the Republican party wishes to attract minorities, that is not the way to do it. You could have made the joke surrounding Hillary. Who needs Bill around when Barack thinks the same way? There were lots of ways to make the joke without bringing race into it. The Republican party is just not sensitive enough about the issue -- and that was my point. We are always going to disagree about choice vs. anti-abortion. I'm not trying to change the mindset of social conservatives -- only to try and open up the Republican party to the rest of us so we can be a governing majority again.

Tim| 1.25.09 @ 4:49PM

Bob,
I just finished watching the 1983 movie classic
"Trading Places" with Dan Akroid, and Eddie Murphy.

I had not watched it in a long while......and laughed by tail off....along with my Mccain voting wife and my Obama voting daughter.

Am I to believe that the three of us just engaged in racism by watching that movie?

Gosh I hope not.....because I love movies and just watched Grand Torino.

Bob, there is absolutely nothing wrong with someone calling a spade a spade.......oooops!

As my kids say.....just chill dude... we can still joke around and guess what....

it doesn't mean we are racists.....not by a long shot.

Political Correctness is destroying us all.....can't you seet that.

Bob| 1.25.09 @ 5:36PM

Tim, if you grew up in South Central like me, and used the word "spade", you might not be alive today. Is that political correctness gone wild? I'm sure you also laughed when you married your sister and all your children had birth defects. Perhaps, some of your Italian mafia friends could help here.

The point is that if the bulk of the people here think it's fine to use the word "spade" in a racial sense here, then the chances of growing the party with minorities is nil.

Nick| 1.25.09 @ 5:37PM

Interloper,

The only way "the one" is a moderate, is if your politics are akin to Mao or Stalin.

And get your facts straight. He blocked, in committee, a bill that would have protected babies that survived an aborionist's knife from being tossed in a garbage pail to die a slow, horrific death. Real moderate you got there.

If a zygote isn't a person, what is it?

....or you can call me J J, or you can call me J R, or you can call me Jay Ray, but you's doesn't hafta call me Johnson.

Tim| 1.25.09 @ 6:21PM

Bob,
I actually grew up in the inner city until I was 17 years old.......and would you believe it was in Chicago......I kid you not amigo!
Obama's home town.......

One of my best friends while gowing up was my puerto Rican next door neighbor and we used to hang out with all sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds and etnicity and called each other all sorts of names in jest.....of course.....

watch Grand Torino.....you will get what I am saying....There were serious, racism all around us but we just tried to poke fun at the absurdity of it...hey we were kids and we chose to rise above it

My point is that if we cannot poke fun at ourselves every once in a while than we got real problems.

I shared the "Trading Places" movie story because it was so ahead of its time and so darn funny because it makes such good points about life in America....you should watch it....if you don't think its funny than you have become too jaded in my humble opinion .

The problem Bob, is that if we can no longer poke fun at anything than no one is going to take real racism seriousely. and I would be the first to say,
that real racism still is alive and well.

Look, I will grant you that in South Central, very few things are a laughing matter and I am not making light of the fact that a segment of our population is stuck in a pretty bad situation where staying alive is a daily challenge.

But that said, if we go around afraid to speak our mind, or laugh at ourselves or even make a joke from time to time then we are going to make this place even worse than it is.

Bob| 1.25.09 @ 6:54PM

Tim, I also liked Trading Places and thought it was funny. But being "politically correct" in the "political arena" is necessary to win elections. That is why they call it "politically correct".

I spent most of my career creating products for consumers. If I made a comment about "spades" in a commercial, can you imagine what would have occurred. There is a time and place for political correctness -- and that is the issue.

I wish we could live in a world where we were all equal enough to laugh at ourselves. But we are not. I actually like the Don Rickles approach of making fun of everyone rather than just socio-economically depressed minorities. Then you can get away with it. Now, I didn't hear you or Michele making fun of yourselves, did I????

JWWright| 1.25.09 @ 8:25PM

The liberal movement gains power via human sacrifice, otherwise known as killing unborn human life.

Slavery is another source of liberal power.

Enslaving as many people as they can via dependency on government is vile and despicable.

In fine Orwellian fashion, this is known as "Progressive".

Tim| 1.25.09 @ 8:57PM

Bob,
I specifically used the phrase Calling a "Spade a Spade" on this thread to illustrate my point.

I didn't use it in a speech on the House floor or in a classroom or in church.

I used it on this blog to make a larger point.

The point is, that the phrase is referenced in the dictionary and is explaned as a long established phrase to meaning "speaking plainly."

But because some racist folks along the way used the word "Spade" in a different way.....the rest of us now are never supposed to use the phrase.

Bob, the problem is that what happens if more and more phrases are given double meanings,
what do we do then?

I actually understand your point Bob, I really do.

But I just think that we feed into the racist bull when words and phrases become hijacked and are made off limits for normal every day conversation among friends, neighbors and associates.
I can assure you I have laughed and at times joked at my own short comings my whole life.

The problem with political correctness is that it goes against the whole notion of free speech.

Funny how as a conservative, I often times find myself having to defend free speech when my more liberal friends tend to push political correctness.

and yes I do understand the difference between free speech and recklace and hurtful dialogue.

This exchange has drifted far off course from the topic of Abortion....but so be it. It was worth the detour.

Bob| 1.25.09 @ 11:30PM

Oops! I'm sorry, I was reading the birthplace on my fake driver's license, the one I buy booze with. I was born in Beverly Hills, not South Central, but it doesn't make much difference, does it? After all there's more coke being snorted in BH than anywhere else in LA, and everybody here voted Obama.

Jeff Anderson| 1.26.09 @ 1:51AM

Mitch| 1.24.09 @ 9:01AM
"No on is Pro-Abortion, but for the fanatics on the right there is no gray area..."

Do you people tell this blatant lie with straight faces? Tell me, where exactly is the "gray area" between a living baby and one that's (intentionally) killed?

leftrightleft| 1.26.09 @ 2:27AM

I voted for Obama. I knew fully well about his complete support of abortion rights. I will never vote for a pro-life candidate unless there is no other option. There are many like me.

The common goal is to bring the abortion rate to zero. But it must be done through education of abstinence, contraceptive, and family planning. Not government oversight. I will not pretend that outlawing abortion will end it. It will just make it much uglier.

Tim| 1.26.09 @ 10:16AM

Over the weekend....the speaker of the House and mother of Five, Nancy Pelosi said this.

"Contraceptives will reduce costs to the states and to the Federal Goverment."

Translation....unplanned and unwanted babies are a financial burden and should be eliminated because of our financial crisis.

I am waiting for her to next say similar things about gravely ill people, or very old people.

After all, if the average life span is 77 than why on earth should we keep folks around in their 80's and 90's?

"Logans Run" here we come.......

Michele San Pietro| 1.26.09 @ 3:12PM

Bob, I don't think the Republican party isn't sensitive enough about the issue. It was founded in order to fight against slavery and Republican blacks like Colin Powell, Clarence Thomas or Condoleezza Rice reached important positions before Obama. The Republican party needs no moral change, unlike the Democratic which may win all elections it wants, but will never be able to offer serious proposals as long as it does not free itself from absurd hatred against all those who don't think like them.

David| 1.26.09 @ 3:48PM

Alan Brooks, I don't understand your reasoning at all. You agree abortion is wrong. So, what makes it wrong? You say abortion isn't an immediate threat like crime or sickness. I suggest it is an immediate threat if you are a child in utero whose mother is walking through the door of an abortion clinic. Crime and sickness are not immediate threats unless, well, you are about to be the victim of a crime or struck with a sickness. And in neither instance is it assured that life will be lost - in an abortion that is the goal. You say we don't notice abortion like we do immigrants. So you believe if you don't see it, it doesn't happen? You say we can't expect people to get worked-up about abortion with all the other pressing matters. What is more important than life. I am trying not to use that "M" word that begins with "M" and ends with "N", but you make it difficult.

To Ray Dubuque, you probably have also bought into the supposed historical fact that "more people have been killed in the name of religion than for any other reason". That is a big, fat lie of leftists and communists. Your Christian history of the Nazis is so full of historical nonsense. Jeremiah addressed it. I really doubt you are a true reverend, unless of course you are of the Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Jeremiah Wright type - which explains it all.

David | 1.26.09 @ 4:09PM

To Ray Dubuque, I think all you are proving with your Nazi equals Christian rant is that the Bible is correct when it says that "even satan can disguise himself as an angel of light"; and that "even Christians can be deceived if not careful." Hitler did it to the Nazis back then, and with Obama's abortion-on-demand positions, he has done it to Americans in 2008. Weren't these comments supposed to be about abortion? So don't turn it into a slap at Christians; or you will tempt me to use that word that begins with an "M" and ends with an "N".

Tim| 1.26.09 @ 5:28PM

Getting back to Nancy Pelosi, who was serious when she stated that Contraceptives will save States and the Feds tons of money because there will be less mouths to feed if we slow the birth rate. She was also using codified language that basically was saying that that is why we should abort kids of poor and young mom's.

It was real clear if you heard her speak where she was going with this "Margaret Sanger" lingo.

I wonder if Nancy Pelosi will ever admit that in her beautiful State of California, Millions of Illegals have drained the State of its money because as we all know, no one can be denied medical care that walks into a public clinic or needs food assistance or housing assistance etc.

And as we know fake ID's are a dime a dozen and they also vote for their freinds like Pelosi.

If I have to choose between kicking out the illegals or killing the unborn to save money.....

Well, I say round them up and kick them out
and give the new borns a chance at the American dream.

Remember, before you pounce on this that Nancy Pelosi opened up this can of worms and not the conservatives.

Alan Brooks| 1.27.09 @ 1:40AM

i dont want to know abortions are occurring.
dont have to be aware of all the minutae;

and it is minutae, abortion isnt the cause, immorality is.

CONTRECEPTIVES FOLKS| 1.28.09 @ 1:05PM

Hello all the monkies in America, ever heard of contreceptives, it's free in all developed countries in the world, HELLO is anybody there? It's cheaper than abortion, you can't use abortion as contreceptives, it's immoral.

Ever heard of Family planning Clinics, it's free in most CIVILISED countries in the developed world, Hello you MONKIES in AMERICA, it's not difficult to understand.

What about SEX EDUCATION, ever heard of thet you bunch of GREACE MONKIES.

Nick| 1.28.09 @ 2:22PM

Hey Twit,

Contraceptives are immoral. And sex education leads to teenage pregnancy.

P.S. Einstein, doesn't your computer have spell check?

Tom| 4.9.09 @ 1:20AM

I cannot believe the arrogance of you people. Humanity is a cancer on this world and people like you are the most contagious of them all.

poipooip| 11.18.09 @ 8:01PM

Mac TOD Converter,
TOD Converter for Windows

utyyt| 1.11.10 @ 2:11AM

FLV to WMV Converter,
Free FLV to WMV converter

mnbgf| 1.19.10 @ 3:08AM

Convert to MKV is a powerful MKV video converter and MKV file converter, that can help you convert videos to MKV files with fast speed and excellent output quality.
Convert MKV to DVD as well as all the other popular formats are supported; batch and multithreading convert MKV to DVD and make the most of your multi-core processor power; create MKV to DVD with menu templates, split your movies into chapters and watch them on your home DVD player afterwards;
convert MKV to DVD by deleting unwanted parts, split and join video files and much more...

jennifer| 3.6.10 @ 6:48PM

Yes, it comes. It is a big problem.
iPhone to Mac Transfer, Most powerful and must-have app to transfer the iPhone to Mac, iPhone to iTunes and copy files from Mac to iPhone.

easily| 4.5.10 @ 12:20AM

Trustworthy Blu ray Ripper for Mac is the best software that allows Mac users to rip Blu ray DVD on ther Mac OS X (including snow leopard)