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Kristol Calls on Steele to Resign Over Afghanistan Requirements

By Philip Klein on 7.2.10 @ 12:37PM

For a year and a half, Michael Steele has been an inept leader of the RNC, has repeatedly undermined conservatives, and put his foot in his mouth too many times to keep count. Now Bill Kristol is joining the calls for him to resign:

Your tenure has of course been marked by gaffes and embarrassments, but I for one have never paid much attention to them, and have never thought they would matter much to the success of the causes and principles we share. But now you have said, about the war in Afghanistan, speaking as RNC chairman at an RNC event, "Keep in mind again, federal candidates, this was a war of Obama's choosing. This was not something that the United States had actively prosecuted or wanted to engage in." And, "if [Obama] is such a student of history, has he not understood that you know that's the one thing you don't do, is engage in a land war in Afghanistan?"

Needless to say, the war in Afghanistan was not "a war of Obama’s choosing." It has been prosecuted by the United States under Presidents Bush and Obama. Republicans have consistently supported the effort. Indeed, as the DNC Communications Director (of all people) has said, your statement "puts [you] at odds with about 100 percent of the Republican Party."

View all comments (31) | Leave a comment

David| 7.2.10 @ 12:48PM

What a marooon. No wonder the Republicans have lost their way, with leadership like this. Though, maybe he is just trying to do what liberals do all the time - tell a lie enough and eventually the people will believe it. I refuse to donate to the RNC until Steele is gone (though I probably won't donate even if he is gone).

Alan Brooks| 7.2.10 @ 11:23PM

"I gave up on the RNC a long time ago"

But you still have vote Repuglican, Tex? how about "I gave up on the DNC in the mid '70s, but I voted for Carter anyway."
As for libertopians, don't know any foreign libertarians, but libertarians in America are GOP in drag.

Ken (Old Texican)| 7.2.10 @ 1:00PM

Philip, thank you for the link. On that link in the left margin is an article written by a Marine fresh back from Afghanistan.

Our soldiers and Marines can win there, but I don't think Obama will let them.

I gave up on the RNC a long time ago...BUT Senator Jim DeMint is the head of a conservative congressional pac. I don't hesitate to contribute there. I will be right back with a link.

Ken (Old Texican)| 7.2.10 @ 1:06PM

Here is the link to DeMint's bunch

www.senateconservatives.com

Tim*| 7.2.10 @ 1:52PM

We Tea Party Rebels Support South Carolina's Senator Jim DeMint.

This man may very well be the man who recaptures The Presidency In 2012.

matthew s harrison| 7.2.10 @ 1:20PM

The RNC has been a ship adrift at sea for a long time.
The leadership continues to forsake conservative values for political compromise-not what it deserves-not what it stands for-and not what the electorate will stand for.
Is it any wonder that 7 million registered republicans didn't vote in the last general? We need adults in the party, or it will go the way of obama.

Derek Leaberry| 7.2.10 @ 1:23PM

Although Steele's words were so clumsy to be dishonest, I would suggest Kristol is showing a panic when he dishonestly asserts that "100 percent of the Republican Party" supports the war effort in Afghanistan. That is no longer even close to being true as even Byron York alludes to in his column this morning. The neo-conservatives are losing control of the conservative narrative and it is about time as the neo-conservatives are not even conservative. Let me be the first, I call on the chicken-hawk Bill Kristol to vacate his posh Bethesda home and enlist as a soldier in Afghanistan if he thinks it is such an important endeavor. Prove your manhood, little Bill.

As for Steele, he should abide by Teddy Roosevelt's dictum of "speaking softly and carrying a big stick." The RNC chairman should not be making news but he should be facilitating conditions where his party wins elections.

Red Phillips| 7.2.10 @ 1:57PM

"Let me be the first, I call on the chicken-hawk Bill Kristol to vacate his posh Bethesda home and enlist as a soldier in Afghanistan if he thinks it is such an important endeavor. Prove your manhood, little Bill."

Derek, you clearly don't get it. War fighting is for the little people. Kristol is a "thought worker" and hence is "more equal than others." Get with the program.

Red Phillips| 7.2.10 @ 2:03PM

Oh I get it. Kristol is disinterested in Steele until he fails to sing the interventionist party line. Then that is intolerable and now he must go. I guess we know where Kristol's priorities lie. Not with that whole cutting spending or saving babies thing. Fighting far off wars is what he's all about.

Of course Steele is a buffoon and needs to go, and is factually wrong that this is Obama's war (it is Obama's escalation), but that it was this gaff among many that concerns Kristol is instructive.

Grzmlyk| 7.2.10 @ 2:15PM

I agree with you, Red:

Steele has proven himself unworthy of carrying the mantle of conservatism, with his lavish, ostentatious and preposterous "livin' large" off of donors' money and his absolute idiocy from the outset.

I cannot fathom the stupidity of his latest remarks,but I never thought Steele was anything but a hack.

I remember back when he was a Fox News contributor, and he impressed me as a vain, self-indulgent, intellectually vapid fop back then. I was very disappointed when they made him head of the RNC because he is black. Yes, affirmative action infects the GOP, folks.

As for Kristol, he is only a stone's throw from David Frum/David Brooks territory, in my opinion. Too many liberal stances (illegal immigration being just one of many) to suit me.

As for Afghanistan, I do not think it is the "Good War." I think it is an untenable situation - what is there? There's no nation there to build, just a lot of primitive mountain people. No infrastructure, no critical mass of culture or society.

Personally, I think we should turn the region into a Wal-Mart parking lot.

Red Phillips| 7.2.10 @ 2:39PM

"I was very disappointed when they made him head of the RNC because he is black.
Yes, affirmative action infects the GOP, folks.”

Being black certainly didn't hurt Steele but remember there was another black candidate. Steele was also picked because he was the designated moderate of the bunch and Republican Party "leaders" at the time were licking their wounds in the wake of Obama's election and the Congressional elections in 2006 and 2008 and were looking to go in a different direction. Now that Obama is a screw up and conservatism is having resurgence the people who voted for him now look like fools.

Grzmlyk| 7.2.10 @ 2:54PM

True, but selecting a black chairman was part of the plan so as to try to counteract the Obama phenomenon.

There were PLENTY of more qualified people who happened to be white.

It's just another example of the party of supposed conservatism ceding the fundamental argument to liberalism, as they invariably do.

And, once they've allowed the left to name the game, choose the playing field and write the rules, they wonder why they do not win. It is absolutely pathetic.

If you don't think they are craven enough to hire a black man to chair the RNC, just take a look at how they are prostrating themselves before Elena Kagan, whose rejection ought to be a no-brainer. Instead we have a bunch of GOP senators falling all over themselves to prove they're just as progressive as Democrats. Gee, a rerun of the Sotomayer hearings, eh?

Sheila, I have trouble posting, so I'll throw in my comment to you here: I think you and I definitely see eye-to-eye on the whole racism issue. I haven't seen Cline's post yet, but, sad to say, I'm not surprised. When will people figure out we voted for a black man - a wholly unqualified one - not because we aren't racists, but because we're so damned eager to prove we are not.

More damage has been done in this country by racism's obverse - i.e., the ostentatious attempt to expunge that hint of tribalism that lies within all of us - than has been done by its traditional manifestation over the last 25 years.

Rather than grunt and sweat under the strain of attempting to prove that we're utterly color-blind, we'd be better of by admitting we all have that little primordial ooze that is rooted in tribalism and GET OVER IT.

Ultimately, it is the commonality of VALUES that matter, not the color of one's skin.

But the racism industry is just too damned lucrative to let go. It's too big to fail. And so the race baiters continue to make accusations and the race masturbators continue to pat themselves on the head and expect gold stars for their GOODNESS.

And if proving you're not a racist means electing a mentally deficient, puerile, ideological simpleton like Obama, so what? After all, you can't put a price on patting yourself on the head.

Margie| 7.2.10 @ 6:30PM

Hey Grz,

Shiela said in a previous post she's a white nationalist. You're saying you agree with her and you're telling us we all need to admit we're racists and why try and hide it? Do I have you right? I'm sorry but call me hoity toity or whatever you want, but to but I'm not a racist, that is a choice and I choose it not. Count me out.

While I understand your utter frustration toward the Repubs always trying to kiss the rears of the Dems and it makes you sick, well it makes me sick, too. I'm with you, friend, if I may call you that. And I really, REALLY get the whole reverse discrimination thing too. It stinks to high Heaven and I've been a "victim" of it. But hey, there are people between the race baitors and the race masturbators~ and that's us. At least I always thought it was. Just regular people, and conservative in our lifestyles who want to do the right thing and treat people well. We all could do better and me especially and I will, but don't get bitter and succomb to the extreme end of things. Don't become a racist and think we all are. I ain't buyin it!
Love ya.

Grzmlyk| 7.2.10 @ 11:34PM

You know, Margie, I drafted a long response to you and then trashed it.

So now I'm a white nationalist? Where did I say that? This is the first I've heard about Sheila's being a white nationalist.

What the hell is wrong with you? You missed the point of my post ENTIRELY.

WOW.

Margie| 7.3.10 @ 1:06AM

Oh my. No I don't think you're a white nationalist, and I didn't say that in my post. And if you didn't know she said that about herself then you aren't reading her posts. But hey, it's a free country and one is allowed to be a racist. I only assumed you read her posts closely in order to be agreeing with her. My bad, no I don't think so.

Because you agreeing with her and said the following, I got the impression you were in agreement with those who say that hey why should we play games, we're all racists and we know it. It's an attitude.

"Rather than grunt and sweat under the strain of attempting to prove that we're utterly color-blind, we'd be better of by admitting we all have that little primordial ooze that is rooted in tribalism and GET OVER IT."

I suggest you do a search and find her post if you care to where she openly said it. Or not. I don't care. I was coming from concern here but I will no longer respond to you as I see it isn't welcomed.
And p.s. There's nothing "wrong with me," at least not in God's eyes. I came from my heart and according to my conscience.

Grzmlyk| 7.3.10 @ 9:32AM

What I'm saying, Margie, is that we're all HUMAN and tend to have tribal vestiges, and that, since humanoids walked upright and hunted in loose clans, we have tended to organize oursleves in competitive groups, and very often a big component of that is a tribal "us vs. them" mentality - hence Red Sox fans vs. Yankee fans, Letterman fans vs. Leno fans, the older generation vs. the younger generation, men vs. women and, yes, conservatives vs. liberals.

We ALL exhibit this behavior from time to time, in one way or another, and we all allow some of those prejudices to cloud our thinking, which is why you see soccer hooliganism running amok in Europe (people killing each other over a soccer team!); people associate themselves with their group and to some extent one defines one's own group by defining an "other."

EVERYBODY is guilty of this sometimes. It is part of the human condition. And yes, it is all too easy to define as an "other" someone who looks different from oursleves. By the way, that's what "alien" translates into from Latin - the "other." A fundamental component of tribalism is alientating the "other." It's why politicians always organize their campaigns around an "us vs. them" mentality, and it's why liberals have so successfully balkanized groups in this country, destroying the natural healthy effects of the "melting pot" for a patchwork of different victim groups that are set up exclusively to mainain a sense of alienation (and therefore victimization).

So in today's complex world, it is all too easy to retreat into a tribalism that I believe is embedded in our DNA and allow our weaknesses to supplant our better judgment. Tribalism is NOT the same as racism; it is my conjecture that racism is a subset of tribalism - and a very insidious one at that.

So my point in saying "get over it" is that, instead of bending over backwards to prove one doesn't have a scintillia of prejudice in their body (which tends to overcompensate for the problem - hence affirmative action and the "race masturbators"), we should admit that we all sometimes have such knee jerk reactions - whether rooted in race or whether one is a northerner vs. a southerner or a boxers vs. briefs person - and then RISE ABOVE it and judge people on commonality of values - not our differences, whether they are racial, geographical, sociological or political (and that last one is a hard one for me).

In other words, we should focus on our common humanity, not arbitrary things that might separate us.

I got angry at you because 1) I think this tribalism is at the root of a lot of our problems; and 2) NOBODY has ever accused me of being a racist before, and to align me with a white nationalist mentality - even obliquely - is beyond an insult. I lived in New York during a rough decade (the decade preceding Guiliani's ascendance as Mayor), and I worked exclusively with black people for four years. I walked every street in Manhattan, many in Brooklyn and a few in Queens and the Bronx. I've seen and been a part of the interaction among races up-close-and-personal, in all sorts of situations (some life-threatening, some spiritually uplifting), and I feel I have a certain amount of hands-on education in this matter. It's not an academic theory I'm peddling; it's years of observation and experience.

And no, I don't know Sheila at all, really. I don't read all the posts or even all the articles in Amspec; I do not have the time.

But frankly, nothing in her post below hints to me that she's a white nationalist. I think her comment is on target.

As you know, if I directly read a comment that makes my blood boil, I respond, and if someone touted a white nationalism - and frankly, I'm not sure what that would look like, but assuming it connotes what I think it connotes - I would unload on them as passionately as I unload on Purpleguy or Liberal Reader or "Bob," my once-favorite target who no longer peddles his crap here (thankfully).

I'm sorry I got so angry, but it was late, I had a long night and "hey we're all racists, let's get over it" shocked me. The better one-line summation of my post would be, hey, we're all human, we're all subject to prejudice of one kind or another, and it is our duty as human beings to overcome that and treat all people fairly.

Isn't something like that in the bible?

Margie| 7.3.10 @ 10:49AM

Grz,

I didn't align you with a white nationalist, you did. You said you saw eye to eye with her on race. She openly posted that she is a white nationalist, and so when I saw that you were saying you agreed with her on race I had to question!

Of course I don't think you're a racist and said nothing of the sort. I questioned what you were saying exactly. I don't want you to fall into a trap of agreeing unknowingly, and apparently you don't know. OK~ I'm going to do the search myself just to show you.

GRZ, you know I absolutely ADORE you and would NEVER EVER believed you to be anywear NEAR such a despicable mindset.

I DID underestand your post about the whole ridiculous thing with the Repubs and trying to please everyone and SHARE your anger, in fact LOVE your anger~ you know I always love your wonderful posts.. I just want you to not get snookered.

See, I've had experience with people who are blatant racists, I mean they choose it with no problem. In arguing with them, they say to me, "Hah! You are trying to tell me you aren't racist yourself! Hah!" It's like they can't believe it that not eberyone else is because they are.

Hey, I get what you're saying about the Tribal thing and that peole naturally stick together but that's people who don't know any better. Us adults in the real world go beyond that of course because we've become civilised. But I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about open racism where you choose it~ you know what I mean. You didn't have to explain that to me but you misunderstood where I'm coming from so you did. That's ok. I am taalking about watching out for who and what you're really agreeing to here.

I guess you can tell me it's none of my beeswax and maybe it isn't but hey~ I care about you, what can I say?

I mean to me, saying you're a white nationalist (Sheila, not you), is pretty despicable stuff.
But now I'll go away and won't bug you anymore. Just admire you from afar.
God bless.

Margie| 7.3.10 @ 11:40AM

By Sheila, in her reply to you 6/18/10~
"Since I'm a Christian/HBDer and a white nationalist of Jewish extraction, I don't really fit in any of the standard categories and I don't really care to - I'm an independent thinker and find the rah-rah republicans as tiresome as the trolls here."

And here's how she feels about America, 10/4/09~

"All those who continue to believe in the fabled "American people" haven't looked around lately and seen just where all those people originated." 10/4/09.

And she never forgets to tell us to "Decline and fall" at the end of every post.

Grzmlyk| 7.3.10 @ 12:51PM

Hi Margie:

Thanks for explaining your view to me - I think we just talked past each other. I still think we all succomb to our foibles at times however; we all strive to be good, but I know I fall short plenty. But overall, I think I'm a pretty good judge of character and as fair as one can reasonably expect to be, given my admittedly incomplete and imperfect understanding of the world. I will say I have a broad experience in life, though, and my opinions do not come from some ivory tower or textbook or fashionable new-age clap-trap.

Anyway, with respect to Sheila's comments, I certainly don't remember reading that bit about her - and believe me, I'd remember it. It may be that it was in response to something I wrote, but that doesn't mean I read it.

I usually do not follow threads throughout the day, and I'd be surprised if I responded to her at all after that.

I don't even know how you can be a white nationalist, frankly - particularly a Jewish one. That seems rather odd to me (which is why I think I'd remember reading it). After all, Jews are a semitic people, and don't fit neatly into the euro-WASP white tradition that comprised the bulk of America's original settlers. The fact that there are so many Jews here - an even larger population than exists in Israel, if I recall - is a testament to our American exceptionalism, which is inclusive. And certainly America has benefitted immeasurably by the presence of Jews here.

Since we are a melting pot (or were, until liberals found profit in ghettoizing different groups), it wouldn't even be possible to sort out a "pure" race, and that trend of intermarrying is only going to accelerate.

Again, I find it curious that a Jew would be touting racial purity, given that nasty whole Aryan thing that Hitler espoused.

As for her views of America, again, we have always been a melting pot. Of course there was a hue and cry when the Germans and the Irish came to America in large numbers at the turn of the 19th century; they were considered subhuman mongrels, etc.

Ever was it thus. As I say, I think tribalism of one kind or another is built into the human DNA and nobody escapes it. But when it comes to the commingling of peoples, I really do believe that it is values that ought to define and unite us, not skin color (as Martin Luther King said). Unfortunately it is the modern democrat party that believes otherwise (MLK was a Republican, by the way, and frankly, I wonder why ALL blacks aren't Republicans, because that's the party of opportunity).

I'd like to understand Sheila's comments more before casting her into the abyss. But I agree, what you've written does NOT coincide with my world view.

Ok, I must leave my computer for the day, but I'm sorry for the dust-up - I have great affection for you, too. I think both of our hearts are in the right place.

Take care!
Grz

Margie| 7.3.10 @ 12:30PM

Never head of a "Christian HBD'er" before so I went and looked it up. Basically it means Human Bio-Diversity. Darwinian and rabid anti-Israel white Nationalists.
I found a website of theirs and it isn't pretty:

http://hbdbooks.com/2010/06/is.....heir-land/

Grzmlyk| 7.3.10 @ 2:16PM

Ok, I lied: I'm still at home, having changed my plans for the day.

Well, I went back to Sheila's reply to me of 06/18/10 - which you quoted - and, indeed, I had never read it, which explains why I did not respond to her that day.

I also did a very little bit of digging into the "HBD" thing - I confess that when you quoted her use of the term, and when I read her post a few minutes ago, that phrase flew right past me (as unfamiliar terms frequently do).

I don't know about that crap. I don't subscribe to most of it. I do think the races are different - that's why we recognize different races by sight, after all, and why the NBA is something like 85% black.

And I went to graduate school at Brandeis University, which is something like 80% Jewish (and I've dated many Jewish women, had Jewish friends and worked with a fair number as well), and I can tell you that, in my experience, most Jews are very intelligent people.

But I do not believe anything is to be gained by sweeping generalizations. When I worked at Morgan Stanley in New York, I was an administrative assistant to a black executive who, to this day, remains one of the most impressive human beings I've ever met. He was incredibly bright, a hard worker, ambitious, funny and fair-minded.

On the other hand, I currently work with a lot of people - all of whom are white - and many are uneducated and provincial (I currently live in Vermont). My observation is that some of these people could be charactized as not too bright - they wouldn't do well on standard testing, for instance. But the reality is that a significant number in fact have plenty of brain power - they just haven't ever learned to use it.

I think the idea of racial purity is a moot point for many reasons. One might as well pursue an energy source that's based on happy thoughts.

On the other hand - and this is where I agree with Sheila - I also believe there has been a great drive in this country to expunge it of its former "whiteness," as if white majorities are inherently evil. If black majorities in, say, Uganda aren't evil, why are white majorities in the US evil? That's the way history rolled out.

Even the vaunted "Native Americans" that liberals are always citing as the true owners of this continent migrated here from the Eurasian continent thousands of years ago.

Too many Republicans have gotten on the bandwagon in which they want to eradicate what used to be a solid majority in this country. White people are NOT inherently evil, and of course that's just as racist as saying black people are inherently stupid. I know liberals are infected with this self-hating thinking, and too many conservatives are as well - or at least they smell political advantage to it.

The demographics are pretty unassailable: White birthrates in the US and Europe have dropped precipitously, while traditionally "third world peoples" birth rates are soaring. This is a consequence of advanced technology and our perpetually self-gratifying, juvenile dominant culture.

Whatever the reason, it is true that the America of 50 years from now won't be primarily white. Ideally, it will be a mix (not a bunch of balkanized ghettos).

And that's a consequence of physics: The second law of thermodynamics asserts that pure states always move toward maximum chaos. So you can throw a couple of drops of blue food coloring into a glass of water, and after stirring, it's blue; you will never be able to unstir that water and separate the blue out. As we continue to intermarry, the purity of any race will ultimately be rendered a historical artifact.

This is the inevitability of our future; it is neither good nor bad - it just is. And yet I think jumpstarting the erradication of white people just because they happen to be the historically dominant "race' in America - is every bit as bigoted as trying to keep America white-only is. Two sides of the same coin. And that's what's behind a lot of the shenanigans going on among liberals (and some Republicans).

Having said all that, if I were to be stranded on a desert island, and i could pick the five people I'd prefer to be stranded with, I'd rather be stuck with Thomas Sowell, Bobby Jindal, Brigitte Gabriel, Bill Cosby and Michelle Malkin than Sean Penn, Jane Fonda, Jimmy Carter, Rosie O'Donnell and Ashton Kutcher!

Margie| 7.3.10 @ 5:00PM

"And yet I think jumpstarting the erradication of white people just because they happen to be the historically dominant "race' in America - is every bit as bigoted as trying to keep America white-only is."

Hi there again, Grz,

I came in from baking in the Sun to see your post. In a nutshell the above statement is what it all comes down to. And because of our LAX.. waay more than lax immigration policies, we've become not just a melting pot, which would have been fine, but a melting pot of illegal immigrants, and that ISN'T ok. So~ yes, sir. I DO get it. And I will repeat that I get what some inside the beltway Repubs are doing in as far as trying to cater and not SEEM racist. It is worse than silly, it is harmful. It's what the Left LOVES and ADORES! Well I am with you in that I hate it. But the way things work in this insane world everything is twisted and good is viewed as evil and evil is viewed as good. I have to admit that it must be like trying to resist joining a cult when one heads to do business in Washington D.C. That's why I try to be a little merciful. No, I know there are NO excuses, definitely NOT! But that's what we have the ballot box for! The 64,000.00 question is why do we keep re electing these guys (and gals?)

The thought of ever having to be stranded an a desert Island with the likes of Sean Penn or any of those Leftists, I'd bury myself in the sand. No~ actually, I'd try and convert them. Ha! And they wouldn't be able to escape. Poor dears! It'd probably be tougher on them than it would me.

Margie| 7.3.10 @ 5:06PM

Sorry, I meant to add to the above.. that there are those who hate for the sake of hating. There are those who plainly and openly hate Jews, and other races, but NOT because of illegal immigration, but for other deeply rooted reasons. White Nationalists for example, and Aryans, you know the groups and their ilk. THIS is what I do not tolerate, and will not keep silent about.

That's all, folks!

Margie| 7.3.10 @ 5:10PM

p.s. Speaking of Michelle Malkin, she just penned a wonderful write up called "Assimilation and the Founding Fathers." You gotta read it! (She's one of my faves, too).

http://michellemalkin.com/2010.....g-fathers/

Grzmlyk| 7.3.10 @ 11:12PM

Hi Margie: You know, I just got home and I'm poking around the Web - saw the Malkin piece (haven't read it yet) and then your posts.

I'm gratified that our views on this topic are actually very close.

I read further on that post of 06/18/10 that you cited with respect to Sheila. I see that a lot of others chimed in, and I must say I get mighty uncomfortable with that stuff - you'll never find me posting about white purity or anything like that. Like you, I believe in the melting pot. Also like you, I think illegal immigration destroys the melting pot.

I won't linger TOO much - I want to read Michelle's piece - but I will say this - about 15 years ago, as part of my checkered love life, I fell in love with a coworker who was Korean. We were both employed at a high-tech public relations firm, and the culture of the company and the whole silicon-valley mentality was very strong back then.

Whatever differences might have existed between us because she was Korean did not enter my head; I never thought about it because we seemed to be of the same culture. She was sharp, she had a good sense of humor and was great company.

As I got to know her better, however, I realized that she saw racism everywhere. It was unbelieveable - she saw every interaction through that prism - the prism of us vs. them. As a result, she had created a prison for herself, perceiving that "white" people looked down at her. I had no idea - everyone at our firm was liberal, after all. It shocked me. Honestly.

She seemed quintessentially American to me. Of course I learned she had other issues and it's good that nothing further developed (after I accompanied her around Europe, but that's a story for a different day!).

Same thing with Michelle Malkin - I have never thought of her as anything but a real American. Same with Thomas Sowell and the others I named.

Can you imagine being stuck ANYWHERE with Sean Penn? I think he is the most overrated actor since James Dean (my apologies if you like James Dean). And as a human being, he's insufferable.

I thought Penn was the biggest idiot in Hollywood (a hard title to win), and then I heard Ashton Kutcher interviewed a couple of weeks back.

All I can say is, I wonder what he stores in his head. Perhaps extra car keys or his cell phone. It ain't brain cells, that's for sure! He must use it like a glove compartment.

Take care, sweet Margie. I apologize again for my jumping to conclusions about your post.

Grz

Margie| 7.4.10 @ 12:48PM

This is why I love ya so much Grz, you're an honest man with not a hateful bone in your body. Angry, yes! And without anger all of us would be nothing but blobs sitting around discussing the latest reality show. Thank God for our collective anger! We will use it at the ballot box, won't we!

I'm happy that we basically agree, and probably more than you think, too, because I have a lot of respect for you.

I accept your apology, but none is really needed, as it is I who interupted your conversation, and so I apologize to you!

Sheila,

Do you love America and want her succeed, or to "Decline and fall" like you always say? I'm only going by your own words. What is wrong with you?

America has NOT turned into "a third-world sewer" by thinkers like Andrew Cline. You twist his words when you accuse him of doing so. What he actually SAID was that, "In some ways America is more united than it ever has been. By and large, we no longer tolerate racism." He was speaking of America's history. The article WAS about America's Independence Day and it IS correct what he said. And you object?

He didn't SAY what you said he said in your sentence~ "we've made terrific progress in America, he says, because we won't tolerate racism and we elected a black president."

You conveniently and deceitfully added the tail end of that, to try and paint him as a stupid man cow towing to the Left. He MENTIONED, not in that same sentence, the fact that "This weekend our first black president attends the funeral of..." that isn't the same thing as cow towing, it is stating a fact.

I'm not sure what you're problem is with conservatives who just plain love this country and want to see it succeed. Bah humbug to you're "Decline and fall!"

Happy Independence Day, Sheila, Red, Gryz, and ALL!
And may God continue to BLESS America!

Sheila| 7.2.10 @ 2:27PM

Grzmylk, as usual, I completely concur with your well-written post. This is just more of the "See, we're not racists, we're not!" behavior on the part of Republicans in particular and many self-proclaimed conservatives in general. Just look at Andrew Cline's post here at American Spectator today - we've made terrific progress in America, he says, because we won't tolerate racism and we elected a black president. Don't these guys ever get tired of that meme? This country has been turned into a third-world sewer by all these great "thinkers," whereas up until open immigration and the great progressive movement we did just fine as a country of "doers." Tribalism +democracy+stupidity=racist idiocracy. Decline and fall.

ncatty| 7.2.10 @ 2:37PM

We are not going to win anything in Afghanistan. Let's get our troops out and home for some well deserved R&R. Then deploy them to the Rio Grande.

Ike| 7.2.10 @ 11:11PM

Folks, your man GWB had over -7- years to give us victory in Afghanistan. BUT he, Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfeld took their eyes off the ball (see Tora Bora) as they were getting ready to take us into the only true of War "of choice" in US history.

Meanwhile, GOP Hero Gen Petraeus (who was being talked about a 2012 run against Obama by some Republicans) says he supports Obama's plan in Afghanistan 100%. So it looks like some Republicans are confused -- the question is which Republicans have it right, and which ones got it wrong.