The American Spectator

Bob| 12.14.08 @ 3:03PM

You cannot counter the lack of reason with lack of reason. Why? Because there is no common ground on which to agree -- and as we know with the Bush administration -- no dialog. Agreement requires common ground. The Islamic extremists are immune to reason and so are the social conservatives.

As an example, let's take the surge. How did that work? We used secular reason. The Anbar Awakening was empowering locals with equipment and money. It was reducing the unemployment levels and helping their communities -- IN A SECULAR FASHION.

You cannot combat Islamic extremists with faith or reason. You can't even combat social conservatives with faith or reason.

The concept of America should not rest on faith in a world that has significant multiple religions. We should be getting moderates talking to moderates. We should be using reason where reason is possible.

I've been saying that conservatives have become anti-intellectual. This proves it.

Jeremiah| 12.14.08 @ 9:13PM

What do you people know about jihad or Islamic culture?

You people are ignorant shallow fools. You get your information about the Middle East from Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh.

Let explain something to you people:

Secularism is working like a charm in this country, where hundreds of thousands of Muslims are acclimating each year to our institutions and our way of life. They remain attached to their faith and to their home culture, but they assimilate extremely well to American culture.

Courts, education, journalism -- all the institutions the willfully blind and proudly ignorant "conservatives" loathe -- have an enormous role to play in helping us defeat terrorism.

To say otherwise is stupid bigotry.

You people should be ashamed of yourselves. Seven years later, and you still haven't taken the trouble to learn anything about this issue.

What a bunch of contemptible slaves you are.

Sam | 12.14.08 @ 9:34PM

Name calling, pseudo-intellectual posturing, and the requisite Bush-bashing are what constitutes a post from the famous Bob and Jeremiah. Social conservatives are either shallow fools, complete idiots or lumped together with Islamic fanatics. Apparently, all we have to do is fight Islamic fundametalism with courts, education and, of course, journalism. Eeegads! I can hear the shrieks of terror all the way from Islamabad.

Well, at least Bob understands enough to say that the surge worked.

Good job Bob!

ruth| 12.15.08 @ 12:02AM

Ha ha! Bob and Jeremiah made me laugh, even though I'm sure it was unintentional. I wonder if their 'secularism' would have helped those poor hapless passengers of Flight 93, on September 11, 2001? Maybe we should send these two fools over to Bin Laden to argue our case; or perhaps just to Bin Laden's 'moderate' lieutenants. I just know they would listen to them intently, and poof!, centuries of Jihad would disappear. Liberals would have made us safe again. Truly terrifying. We are roadkill if this idiocy prevails.

Jeremiah| 12.15.08 @ 1:03AM

You people are ridiculous.

Sam --

The whole point is that getting Islamic people to be screaming in terror is the WRONG idea.

Spreading terror is what terrorists do. Not us.

Defeating terrorists means first and foremost making friends with the Muslim nations.

I know Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh have taught you to scoff at such an idea.

But if you read any books (collections of paper bound together containing writing) by experts on terrorist, they all agree: the Muslim nations are the key to winning.

Terrorism is so frightening because it doesn't matter how big our battle ships are, or how many tanks we have, or missiles or planes. On 9.11, the terrorists used box cutters.

Faith, Jesus, blah blah blah. I wouldn't listen to you people on matters of faith to save my life.

Uncle Kevin| 12.15.08 @ 3:21AM

"You cannot counter the lack of reason with lack of reason. " - Reminds me of the old saying "You can't fight Communism with guns." Of course the truth was that you couldn't fight Communism WITHOUT guns, although you needed other things as well. Of course you need reason always, but you can't fight Jihad without a faith and passion to match its faith and passion. As Chersterton put it in "Lepanto," describing the situation as the Mohammetans swept through the Mediteranean towards the final conquest of Europe:

"The Pope has cast his arms abroad for agony and loss,
And called the Kings of Christendom for swords about the Cross."

"The pope has

ruth| 12.15.08 @ 4:37AM

Jeremiah plays good cop--bad cop. Tonight we have been gifted with Jeremiah the bad cop. You're a twit either way, Jeremiah, and if we follow your weak willey, liberal advice, we are doomed. Give me a George Bush over a Billy Clinton/B. Obama any damn day of the week. Thank God for President Bush and his courageous, no-nonsense resilience against Radical Islam. You can't argue with success--and that's what we've enjoyed since the inferno of September 11, 2001. Blissful silence on our soil; which I pray to God continues through Obama's tenure. God help us--because I've got a strong feeling that we are going to need all the help we can get.

J David| 12.15.08 @ 9:34AM

"Bob" = god

"Bob" worships self and is thus motivated, ultimately, by self-interest. This is "intellectual", and since "Bob" equals [a]god "Bob" cannot be "reasoned" with, no matter how he proclaims his worship and veneration for "reason". He thus become what he claims to loath in "Christianists".

"The FOOL hath said in his heart, 'There is no God'"

J David| 12.15.08 @ 9:44AM

Secular humanism is empty, completely hollow of higher purpose than my own fragile life, my own admitted valuation as originating from an amoeba and having the same metaphysical value as one.
The highest purpose for the secular humanist is power/pleasure, and there is no higher morality than the one I place upon my self. Such a philosophy can NEVER defeat ANY belief system that has a life after the present one, particularly one that rewards its followers for their intensity of HATE and willingness to KILL. One needs only a "2+2=4" level of intelligence to reason that out, but the "intellectuals" are smarter than everyone else but God-hates"("intellectuals" all) and have some trouble with simple math.

J David| 12.15.08 @ 9:47AM

That would be "God-haters"..."intellectuals" all, and superior to the rest of 90+% of humanity that have a deity.

Bob| 12.15.08 @ 9:55AM

J David -- if you don't have the capacity to reason and must devolve into belief, then you are right, we cannot communicated. I do not have any problems with secular humanism just as I do not have any problems with extreme religion. Government should be secular if we want to use reason and communicate with the greatest number of people.

As to your denigration of "intellectuals" -- you are in good company. Hitler hated both Jews and intellectuals. Regarding your claim of superiority, I do find, especially here, that so-cons firmly believe they are superior because they believe in their specific religious dogma.

WendyG| 12.15.08 @ 9:58AM

>>>Thank God for President Bush and his courageous, no-nonsense resilience against Radical Islam. You can't argue with success--and that's what we've enjoyed since the inferno of September 11, 2001.

Right on Ruth.

But in a sense this entire debate leaves out one element - OIL. Our entire MO in the ME and the WOT is affected by the fact that we need Arab oil. If the Nazis had had oil that we needed we might have fought WWII very differently.

We have not even begun to do what we need to do to fully crush radical Islam. The kind of steps Lincoln took during the Civil War (his suspension of the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus) and certain steps FDR took. Bush has done a great deal to keep us safe, but he could have done more, were his hands not tied by a Bush-hating media, and were free we to take advantage of our energy resources without the left/liberals carrying on.

Crusader| 12.15.08 @ 10:07AM

It never ceases to amaze me how libs LOVE islam. Probably the most intolerant strain of political ideology out there and libs just absolultely LOVE it.

What they don't understand is when the moslems take over who do you think is gonna be first to get the ol' noggin lopped off? Do you think you will be able to "reason" with a jihadist?

Anyway Jeremiah what do YOU know about islam? What books have YOU read on the subject? Ever spent time in an islamic country? By your posts I reason you haven't.

Oh, and please, please stop referring to it as "radical" islam. There is only "islam." The way the jihadists practice it is the exact way their false prophet practiced it 1400 years ago.

J David| 12.15.08 @ 10:13AM

I have no interest in "communicating" with the Godless heathen except to poke fun at their self-worship...

Bob| 12.15.08 @ 10:23AM

J David says:

"I have no interest in "communicating" with the Godless heathen"

Yes, we do know how bigots operate. You share common traits with radical Islam.... they don't want to communicate either....

J David| 12.15.08 @ 10:53AM

The child of the amoebas speaks from his deep love of "open-mindedness" over the bigotry Jesus Christ, and calls himself the pinnacle of evolution, the highest order of "intellect"...With such we are expected to "reason"? Heh!

J David| 12.15.08 @ 11:13AM

Jesus said, "I come not to bring peace, but a sword"
and, "You are for me or against me..." no other options. Also, "I came not to do away with the law, but to fulfill every jot and tittle"
By the [moral]retard humanist definition of "bigot" Jesus was the biggest bigot of all history.
Fortunately for those who repent of their sin and trust His shedding of blood in their places, and His ressurrection conquest of death, such "bigotry" is not going to be a problem when they stand before him at the judgment.

J David| 12.15.08 @ 11:16AM

"The FOOL hath said in his heart, 'There is no God'", and only a fool argues the identity of some they know not, and deny boldly, with those who know Him personally. The very definition of "FOOL"...

Bob| 12.15.08 @ 11:18AM

... and if you are wrong????? Given that I don't believe in life after death, I couldn't care less.

J David | 12.15.08 @ 11:47AM

The "belief" of a "FOOL" has absolutely NO bearing on fact(which in turn, has absolutely nothing to with subjective "reality"), and the argument that God did not sufficiently prove Himself to a self-worshiping God-hater isn't going to wash at the judgment. He has proven His love sufficiently by subjecting Himself to bloody death at the hands of sinful humans, in the person of Christ, that no argument will suffice. His very presence divided Time itself in to "Before Christ" and "Ano Domini"("The year of our Lord), and the real difference He makes in the lives of His real followers, who were "fools" but are no longer, will be held as testimony at the trial where those who CHOSE to reject Him will be sentenced.

People who spend all of their time arguing against Christ, and the totality of what He said, not just the bits-and-pieces they think they can use in their vain arguments against Christianity, and moral universal absolutes, will, despite their self-delusion, answer for their lives, and pay for their sins either with their eternal souls, or with the precious blood of the Lamb. No human "reason" will argue away the reality...Most specifically the "reason" of FOOLS who hate God and try to wish Him away so they came peacefully worship their own selves.

J David| 12.15.08 @ 11:54AM

There is no "if I am wrong" as "if" is a hypothetical term, and those who claim to be totally "logical" and reasoning should be aware that "if" has no place in logic. "If" I was wrong than I would still have lived not by an imperfect human standard (governed by my own deity and thus my own standard) but by a book full of absolutes " which standard is God's perfection(which in not meeting same, the said requirement for the sacrifice of God's demand for justice in the perfect blood of the Lamb0Universal Absolutes" then kicks in), and bettering the world as a redeemed sinner whose all to his loving Savior, and a hope beyond this life.

J David| 12.15.08 @ 11:56AM

(Punctuation sacrificed in flow-of-consciousness thought)

J David| 12.15.08 @ 12:04PM

I only have to do simple math: Atheist = amoeba, to reject such "intellectualism", and only need the personal EXPERIENCE of a daily-saving relationship with the gracious and merciful Almighty Creator through the blood shed by Christ, to KNOW that I have made the correct choice. I'll stack personal experience next "Atheist = amoeba" any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Bob| 12.15.08 @ 12:30PM

J David -- you have just proven two things. First, logic doesn't apply to your argument. And second, you are intolerant to ideas that conflict with your beliefs. This argument was the same used to segregate blacks and not allow interracial marriage. What the majority of Christians -- and other religions for that matter -- believed about interracial marriage two centuries ago is not what the majority believes now. Were they wrong two centuries ago? Were they less religious than people are now? Did they read a different bible? If they were fallible then, then you are fallible now.

Pesky Pundit| 12.18.08 @ 7:01AM

Recent research has revealed that the likelihood of belief in paranormal phenomena, hauntings by "ghosts", alien abductions etc. is far greater among secularists than it is among practitioners of religions/theists. An interesting research revelation to consider...

By definition, the issue of "faith" is not intellectually debateable. It's just one of those things...

As one who holds the requisite post-graduate university credentials for admission to secularist inner sanctums, I happen to also be a practicing Christian. No, I don't go to church every week, nor do I own a rosary, any religious iconography etc. But at the age of 58 and with the benefit of hindsight, I know that I sleep as well as I do at night because I have lived a very Christian life - perhaps more Christian than the lives of many church attendees. The Ten Commandments - a cornerstone of the Judeo-Christian civilization - have guided my life.

I note that Islam is the ONLY faith whose history and current state challenge the validity of those Ten Commandments. So a confrontation with Islam is a CIVILIZATIONAL challenge. We all need to wake up to that fact.

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