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The Public Policy
Off Target
The White House’s gun control agenda would not have prevented the Sandy Hook Massacre.
(Page 2 of 2)
Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:
- Folding or telescoping stock
- Pistol grip
- Fixed capacity of more than 5 rounds
- Detachable magazine.
The list notably lacks reference to features that affect the basic operation of a firearm, with the exception of extended magazines, which will be discussed separately, and shotgun magazine design. There is no reference to the action of a gun, i.e. the moving parts which allow it to fire. (Grenade launchers are outside of this essay’s scope; in any case, grenades did not play a role in Sandy Hook.) Machine guns, defined as firing multiple rounds with a single trigger pull, were banned almost a century ago to curtail prohibition gang violence, and were not dealt with in the 1994 ban.
The Newtown shooter could have used a “standard” rifle to fire ammunition of the same or comparable type with the same or comparable accuracy, precision, and rapidity as the AR-15 he used. He could have used a rifle bought at a sporting goods store, which says less about rifles than the people who wield them. He could have killed just as many children. Banning assault weapons would not have changed that. The category was contrived by the people who outlawed it.
High-capacity magazines are a different story. They clearly have implications for the basic operation of a firearm. Assuming no difference in reliability, a high-capacity magazine seems to have utility for someone interested in killing a lot of people in a short amount of time. Setting aside the fact that mass shootings are exceedingly rare, account for a tiny percentage of gun deaths, and have neither increased nor decreased in recent years, including last year, the policy case for banning high-capacity magazines almost makes itself: Reloading takes time; increasing the frequency with which a shooter must reload dramatically decreases the damage he or she can do. Basic math, right?
It would be, if not for the tacit assumption that the time it takes to change magazines is significant. As with any other aspect of handling firearms, the facility of the user is decisive. A warning, the following video contains brief profanity:
That was a demonstration of fast magazine changing with an AR-15. For the reasons noted above, a completely legal ‘standard’ magazine-fed rifle could be reloaded with comparable speed and consistency. Again, the decisive factor is the facility of the user. Pistol magazine changes can be executed even more quickly and consistently, so banning high-capacity pistol magazines would be even less consequential:
An effective (as distinct from legal) ban on high-capacity magazines might well have lessened the death toll of recent mass shootings. And yet the fact remains that the ban would impact far more people using guns for self-defense or sport than mass shooters, for the simple reason that mass shooters make up a tiny minority of gun users. Such a ban would not affect the vast majority of violent gun incidents, and by extension, gun deaths. In any case, 3-D printing technology is maturing to the point that once it is widely adopted, it will render such a ban unenforceable, unless we ban 3-D printing.
This leaves the question of increased background checks, including information sharing among relevant state and federal databases. Exceptions in the background check mandate currently exist for sales between private individuals (the “gun show loophole”) and by federally licensed dealers. That question has a very simple answer: The Newtown shooter never faced a background check because he stole the guns he used from his mother, murdering her before traveling to Sandy Hook Elementary School.
It is the bitterest of ironies that, of the three policies President Obama mentioned, the one with the greatest potential impact on gun violence mattered least in the case of Sandy Hook. That massacre, which continues to fuel a furious debate over gun rights and regulations, was a statistical aberration. But no fact, figure, or circumstance can ever make it less of a nightmare, or the nightmare any less real. What happened happened, and it makes any decent person recoil, as it should.
Honoring the victims of Sandy Hook means not focusing on the politics, which are fueled by overwhelming emotion. It means focusing on what makes sense given the relevant facts of the case. It means focusing on what works. Only draconian, unconstitutional gun regulations would have prevented what happened in Newtown one month and two days ago. If the shooter was simply an evil human being, then it is hard to see what remedy policy makers can offer. If men were angels, there would be no debate about violence of any kind, but ours is a fallen world.
We do know that the shooter was unwell. He was undergoing treatment for serious disorders of the mind. He was an adult and is fully culpable for his actions. With that understood, the Sandy Hook Massacre is most plausibly a symptom of a mental health crisis that exploded when the policy of deinstitutionalization began half a century ago. There is no American mental health system. There is no functional legal framework for commitment. There are hardly any mental hospital beds. There are medications which only theoretically address conditions we are barely beginning to understand. And there are the streets, jails, and prisons where millions of severely mentally ill people live without dignity, at the mercy of their demons. These people are easy to forget about and ignore. For our own sake, but more importantly for theirs, we should start paying attention. We should take responsibility for our fellow human beings. We should start exploring serious, systematic policy solutions.
As for the victims of gun violence whose suffering has been thrust into the public consciousness, all sides should tread with caution. There is a lot of misunderstanding, misinformation, and mistrust in this debate. The stakes for our freedom and our security are high. We should not let fear and emotion drive us away from the truth.
About the Author
Luca Gattoni-Celli is an editorial intern and domestic policy reporter for The American Spectator casting an eye on government accountability. He graduated from the College of Charleston Honors College in May of 2012 with a degree in economics.
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Frank Drackman| 1.16.13 @ 6:31AM
OK, I'm an Idiot-Sovante' (I prefer "Genius") I just think up great Ideas, like Einstein, and leave it up to the Plank & Tellers to do the heavy lifting...
1: A "Million Magazine" March on D.C., with REAL Magazines, not National Geographics, even if the D.C. Cops(HT Mr. T) arrest a few, it'll just bring more attention to that Mongoloid(seriously, I think he's a Mongoloid, they don't all drool) David Gregory, who got let off with a slap on his e-femine wrist...
Alright, I'm a workin Man, and the drive to D.C. ain't exactly cheap, even if you stock up on cheap N.C. Cigs, so ..............
#2: same thing, except instead of D.C., in every State Capitol, OK, yeah, somebody's gotta go to Pierre, South Dakota, but hey, you can make a stop at Wall Drug, and tell me what was supposed to be so great there.
#3 Just politely smile, go about your business, and ignore the law, like our ancestors did with Prohibition, and if any Revenuers end up in shallow graves, that would be a shame.
No seriously, it would be a shame, cause down South, we remember what an Oppressive Government can do..
Not reconstruction, that stupid 55 mph Speed Limit, You ever driven from Huntsville to Mobile at 55mph???
Frank "Stuck in Mobile again" Drackman
c. j. acworth| 1.16.13 @ 8:24AM
Frank;
I had the same idea as your #1. How I would love to march down Penn. Ave. with about 50,000 other gun owners draped in hi-cap. magazines and dare the cops to arrest us.
Pecos Pete| 1.16.13 @ 10:46AM
Frank: I like #3 mostly because that's what's going to happen.
Anthony| 1.16.13 @ 1:49PM
I love it; a Million Magazine March on D.C.
And the people shouted "We're all David Gregory's now!!!!
TLP| 1.16.13 @ 2:20PM
Some of you people still don't understand what we're dealing with, here.
To Barack Hussein Obama, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, and every Democrat Politician in this Country: Newtown was Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanza, New Years, their Birthdays, and Winning the Lottery, all rolled in to one.
Like their Muslim buddies did on 911, I have no doubt that they were High Fiving, Dancing, and Passing out Candies and Pastries, when they heard what happened.
In their world of: Never let a Crises go to waste?
This was their SUPER BOWL.
As Rush would say: Don't Doubt Me.
Frank Drackman| 1.16.13 @ 3:15PM
TLP, paraphrasing my favorite character, from my favorite movie, "Tombstone"
"Aren't I supposed to hate you"??
You actually made some sense there...
Frank "Doc" Drackman
TLP| 1.16.13 @ 4:56PM
No, you're not supposed to hate me.
I don't hate you.
You just Freak Me Out.
But, maybe that's a good thing?
TLP| 1.16.13 @ 4:58PM
And, thanks.
Butch| 1.16.13 @ 3:42PM
The bodies weren't even room temperature before the calls for gun control came out. I heard the first one within one hour of hearing about the shooting in the first place. They were happier than Chris Matthews about Sandy, and happier than Al Gore after Katrina.
Moe Blotz| 1.16.13 @ 6:48AM
One of my mates sent me an E-mail referring to a commemorative handgun that Ruger is going to manufacture. The "Congressman" will honour our senators and congressmen. The gun does not work and you can not fire it.
In reply to Franky, try driving cross country with a uniform 55 mph speed limit. The national maximum speed limit created a huge market for radar detectors that began with the introduction of the "Fuzzbuster". Drivers voted with a right foot on the throttle and eventually sanity prevailed. Proper gun control means you hit the target where you are aiming.
Frank Drackman| 1.16.13 @ 7:28AM
55mph, try George AFB California to Barksdale AFB Louisiana at 45 mph....
and this was 1972, when there was still no speed limit in parts of Arizona...
Blame my Dad's 1959 VW Bug with its 36 HP "Engine", He kept it at a steady 55(Indicated) but those headwinds are a Bee-otch, especially when we unintentionally violated Mexican Airspace...
My Mom drove the 69' Impala, made it there 2 days ahead of us....
Frank
mike 3/505| 1.16.13 @ 9:01AM
George AFB!? I used to live there. 'bout that same time too...Do you remember "turtle hill?" Place where a bunch of us kids used to go hang out, hiking etc? It got razed when a bunch of new construction took place. It was on the back side near the 2 -story Enlisted family housing.
Frank Drackman| 1.16.13 @ 9:19AM
(Thurston Howell III voice) Enlisted Housing????? You know Officers kids didn't play with Enlisted kids, except in officially sanctioned events, like BB gun fights....
Frank
Frank Drackman| 1.16.13 @ 10:28AM
You know what I remember best about George AFB??
The Sonic Booms, which you only heard at a SAC base when some transient F-4 or F105 would thunder off, in full afterburner...
The kids today, they think a Sonic Boom's some kind of new Stereo!!!!
In fact I think breaking the Sound Barrier might have had some role in my dad's sudden orders back to B-52 land, (Yeager got a friggin promotion for doin it)
Frank "What!?" Drackman
Moe Blotz| 1.16.13 @ 11:10AM
February 1979, in the midst of the manufactured fuel crisis, I ordered a new Kenworth W900 powered by a Cummins KTA525, Spicer 5X4 transmission, and 4.11 gears in each diff. My speedometer read up to 100 mph when most trucks topped out at 81. With a little extra juice to the fuel pump, 240 psi, the dynamometer at my local Cummins shop showed 750 hp at the rear wheels. Torque was in the 2,500 ft/lb range. With that truck I could fly under the radar when running out west, two and a half days to run coast to coast. No drugs required to stay awake. One deadhead from Albuquerque to Oklahoma city took me eight hours. My little bird dog sniffed out the cops and I stayed relatively ticket free. Those doors you used to see laying by the side of the road would tell you I had been through the state the night before.
Frank Drackman| 1.16.13 @ 12:55PM
Hey-Zeuss, with that set up, (4.11 rear gears?) the cops from Hawaii 5-0 probably heard you coming...
Pecos Pete| 1.16.13 @ 1:15PM
Moe: I finally found you! I've been looking for you ever since I lost my doors just west of Tucumcari. Please send replacement money.
Thanking you in advance,
Pecos "Pesco" Pete
markenoff| 1.16.13 @ 5:19PM
This train doesn't stop at Tucumcari.
SCMike| 1.16.13 @ 6:50AM
I’ve never been a birther, gotta admit I am a globo-warmo denier, but several friends have emailed me this NBC / MSNBC news clip that dates from a day or three after the 12/14/12 Newtown shooting: Pete Williams, NBC’s Justice correspondent, reports that four handguns were found inside the school and the Bushmaster was in the shooter’s car.
The email accompanying the link to the clip asserts that we’re being lied to, the kid did it with handguns, not the AR15, this is all a plot to take away a popular type of rifle, etc. This is how conspiracies are born.
Later reports stated that the Bushmaster was used and the kid had two handguns.
I’ve searched about a little but cannot find an official statement as to what type of bullet killed and wounded the kids. In other words, has an official law enforcement source stated unequivocally that the Bushmaster did it. Can anyone here provide a link?
GobBluthe| 1.16.13 @ 7:30AM
The initial story was that the kids were killed with handguns and the AR15 was left behind.
Albert Constantine Jr.| 1.16.13 @ 8:39AM
I have heard it reported that he killed his mother with the Bushmaster, then left it in the car, and killed the kids with handguns.
Had he been seen approaching a school with a long gun, he would have likely brought a faster and more certain response than being a mere trespasser, and time is as important a variable as ammunition for a mass killer in a situation with lots of potential unarmed victims in order to maximize carnage.
Al Adab| 1.16.13 @ 11:41AM
Then truth of the matter, whatever it may be, does not matter. Perception is reality and only ideas which fit the agenda have import.
It only took a single shot derringer to kill Lincoln and the AZ shooting was with handguns. It is simply that uninitiated people fear the looks of AR type rifles. BTW, mine ( a Ruger mini-30) has a three round mag for legal hunting-so yes Gov. Cuomo, people do hunt with "assault" rifles. Of course the 2nd amendment says nothing about hunting and does mention militia which towns and states call out to protect themselves from crime, unrest and invasion.
Butch| 1.16.13 @ 3:58PM
I've heard and read it both ways, Jr. That he used to AR and that he used the handguns with the AR in the trunk. Not from individuals, but actual news reports. It's never been clarified. Since the teacher huddled the children into corners, it made it easy for him. A 17-round mag in that 9 mm Glock he had could have probably done it, or most of it (I also heard he had two handguns.).
I guess we're all paranoid now, but I suspect there's a reason it's still murky. If you were six of O's proposed "Civilian Security Force" on a mission to search and confiscate in an individual house, what's the last widely-owned weapon you'd worry about facing? With a 30-round mag, the homeowner could get 'em all as they got out of the car. It's the most effective legal, widely-available weapon to use against a tyrannical government. That's why, IMHO, O's minions WANTED it to be the "assault weapon" whether it WAS or not.
JoeS| 1.16.13 @ 7:39AM
Put brain in liberal.
He committed the crime.
He had a Bushmaster (does not matter if it was in the car, back at home or with him at the scene of the crime. He had one. )
Therefore, he committed the crime with the Bushmaster. It does not say he used it. It just says that he had one. Somewhere.
It is like if I brought a friend to the movies and made him wait in the lobby. He was with me at the movie. I went to the movie with him. Just because he actually did not get to see the movie dies not mean he was not with me when I went to the movie.
Sarcasm aside, your comment spotlights the essence of the argument. The presence of the inanimate object contributes to the seriousness of the crime, whether it was used or not.
Put your brain in liberal and that makes sense.
Purp| 1.16.13 @ 3:54PM
No Gun, No Killing ... is that too much for you to understand?
No bomb, no knife, no poison - a gun. Blew off the face of a 6-year old. You're okay with that?
Mommy no have any guns, Whacko cannot kill with guns. Another brain teaser?
CJW| 1.16.13 @ 5:06PM
Purpie the Village Idiot,
Just when I thought you could not get any more stupid yous say:
"Only an all powerful government can stop women from exercising their God-given choice."
So now God has give women the choice to kill an unborn child? When did God do this? Maybe your are confusing God with the Supreme Court
WhiteBikerTrash| 1.16.13 @ 5:55PM
Purp, Are you aware that on the very same day in Communist China, twenty school children were stabbed and slashed by the local knife nut? Hmmm, no guns there. But you must be okay with that? No gun, no killing? That is so absurd. If Adam had pressed for ass jawbone control after Cain killed Abel then a broader ass jawbone ban, then there would be no Democratic Party today!
Frank Drackman| 1.16.13 @ 7:40AM
I know you're just pointing out the redicu-locity of the Gun Grabbers(Drinking game, tune into PMS-NBC/CNN/PBS etc everytime you hear some mangling of "High Extended Clip Magazine Capacity Assault Bull-Wets" chug the intoxicant of your choice (Gentleman Jack for me please)
It's a trap, cause MLK was shot with a Remington "Hunting" Rifle that's still available (Saw one for $350, looked barely used) that shoots a round "THATS EVEN MORE POWERFUL THAN AN AK-47 ROUND!!!"
JFK was shot with a "Military"(does the Italian Army qualify as "Military")rifle, and his brother with a Puny 22 Revolver, THAT YOU CAN STILL BUY FOR UNDER $100!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FWIW I would guess Lanza used the handguns on the kids, saving the larger Artillery for the Cops, or maybe not, HE WAS A FRIGGIN LOONY TUNES, WHO IF HE'D BEEN SHOOTING HOOPS WITH THAT INDIAN AND McMURPHY WOULD STILL BE ALIVE!!!!!
well thats my 2 centavos anyway.
Frank
markenoff| 1.16.13 @ 5:20PM
Hmm. Juicy Fruit.
Pecos Pete| 1.16.13 @ 10:50AM
I've been looking for any official report on the ammunition used. Haven't found any yet. I don't expect to find it.
SUBVET| 1.16.13 @ 10:53AM
Mike...........10-4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx9GxXYKx_8&sns=em
It says there was a second shooter..........
Appleby| 1.16.13 @ 7:24AM
Handguns have been illegal in Ontario since 1938, and you can buy one on virtually any street corner in town -- and likely the seller will bring it to your office if you can't break away to go pick it up. A 14 year old boy ordered an AK-47 through the internet from the USA, it was shipped by Canada Post labeled "baseball bat" and his Mama found out about it when Junior left it on his bed one morning as he went to school. And do you know the only city in North America that has had THREE mass school shootings in the past 20 years? IT'S MONTREAL. (Montreal is also heavily invested in the Mafia and has been since at least the 1970s, to my knowledge.)
A brief attempt at a "long gun registry" has been abandoned by the Federal Government here, as it proved totally unworkable and the government admitted that not one single gun crime was committed with a registered gun. However, it is still very likely that if you use a legal gun to defend yourself in Canada YOU will be arrested, even if you are firing warning shots at people who are firebombing your house. Google that one; it's a lulu.
The short answer is, as I have been tellin' ya, if you want to find out how your socialist excesses Don't Work, all you have to do is step across the border and ask around. It's already in Epic Fail Mode up here.
Frank Drackman| 1.16.13 @ 8:14AM
You can still get baseball bats in Canada???
I mean since you don't have the Expos anymore, and even if you're on a team, shouldn't the bats be locked up, and only used under adult supervision?
AK 47 delivered to your office? To quote my Idol Jules "Julie" Winfield,
"Eff it, I'm goin man, I'm goin"
And am I the only one suspicious about Hilary Clinton's "Concussion"??? Oh I'm sure she had one, I'm just curious about who smacked her upside her haid'....
Frank
Alan| 1.16.13 @ 8:19AM
I'm just curious about who smacked her upside her haid'....
Probably the women she was sleeping with.
Albert Constantine Jr.| 1.16.13 @ 8:29AM
Did Huma bring her thighs together too quickly?
Frank Drackman| 1.16.13 @ 8:50AM
I don't care if she does play for the other team, Huma's Hot.
Dat Rahm got some mad game for a White Boy...
Seriously, any dude who dances Ballet, and snags a slice of pie like Huma,
OK, and blow me Dr. Right, He's probably a Ho-Mo...
Frank
Albert Constantine Jr.| 1.16.13 @ 9:12AM
...Interesting, except the more Jerry Lewis looking Anthony Weiner is married to Huma...
Frank Drackman| 1.16.13 @ 9:23AM
it's so sad that you know that..
OK, you caught me mis-remembering my Jewish Nebishes...
but since you seem to be up on this stuff, who IS Rahm married to,
Frank
Albert Constantine Jr.| 1.16.13 @ 10:10AM
Rahm is married to Amy Rule.
What is truly sad is that Anthony tweeted out photos of his semi-flaccid weiner through his boxer briefs, while Huma was busy giving Hillary blood clots.
Drunken Sailor| 1.16.13 @ 10:15AM
My guess is the ground smacked her. I suspect she knows how to drink, just not how to stop.
Alan| 1.16.13 @ 10:41AM
Then it was gravity's fault.
Appleby| 1.16.13 @ 3:32PM
We have kind of a baseball team in Toronto. It's called the Blue Jays. Like all the other teams in Toronto, it plays well until the All Star Break. Then it makes a swan dive to the bottom of the barrel.
JimH| 1.16.13 @ 8:24AM
I suspect the most effective thing that could be done to reduce the number of mass killings would be to not release the identity of the killer. These shootings all look to be some twisted attempt at gaining attention. Of course the Press might object to this as a violation of 1st amendment rights which are somehow more important than those of the 2nd.
Von Mises Jr| 1.16.13 @ 8:43AM
This is not about gun violence in schools. It is about preventing gun violence when the economy collapses.
When your house is completely worthless (Fannie and Freddie owe the taxpayers $200B and will need as much as $300B this year), the market crashes and your 401K is a former shadow of itself, inflating the currency causing prices to skyrocket and seniors on fixed income will be eating dog food or even worse the dollar is abandoned as the global currency and we cannot finance our deficits and debt with monetizing the debt, lots of people are going to be desperate and others really pissed. So taking our guns is to protect the people who did this, not the children who will be in debt and slavery.
Albert Constantine Jr.| 1.16.13 @ 10:04AM
Of course, most of the destructive violence, particularly in America's urban areas, has been accomplished through the spread of fire.
Once there is hardly any gasoline, Obama may succeed in his fire control efforts, as well.
Von Mises Jr| 1.16.13 @ 10:52AM
The regime is railing against rifles, but Dobbs last night showed in his Chalk Talk that only 2% of gun violence is committed by rifles. Rifles are apparently the target since they are accurate at a distance, and not because they have killed many people in civil society. But a rifle killed JFK and that seems to be more the concern of the Ruling Class.
Riff Raff| 1.16.13 @ 11:59AM
20 years ago the gun control crowd was railing against handguns. Their argument was "handguns have no MILITARY value, so they are not protected under the 2nd Amendment." This is based on the notion that the 2nd Amendment ONLY protects military weapons for "militia" purposes. The same people are singing the opposite tune now, claiming that military weapons are not protected. This is all a scam. They will lie, cheat, steal, and murder (by proxy, of course) to get their way and completely disarm civilians. Obama thinks his proposals will be met with "resistance." He is wrong. They will be met with outright refusal. Don't expect Obama to back down either. He will take this to the wall, possibly using his cretinous "Occupy" mobs as "enforcers", as they riot and plunder and target gun owners for "retribution."
Riff Raff| 1.16.13 @ 12:06PM
Note: When I say "murder by proxy" I mean specifically this: Democrats appoint Leftist lawyers to judicial posts in State and Federal Courts, and these Courts find every excuse imaginable to release violent criminals. Additionally, Leftist Courts have made involuntary committment of the violently insane nearly impossible. This has been going on for over 50 years (it has been 50 years since Democrat Governor Pat Brown of California signed a law that opened the insane asylums), the result being that despite prisons being crowded, there are millions of violent felons walking the streets of the USA with impunity, carrying weapons and committing crimes, including murder. Democrats do not hire such people directly to commit murders, but Democrat policies and appointments make sure that enough of them are released, and then Democrats just sit back and wait for the inevitable result. A result that kills innocent prople.
Von Mises Jr| 1.16.13 @ 3:20PM
Obama is not much smarter than the low-life inner-city mobs that burned their own neighborhoods in LA, Detroit and Newark back fifty years ago. If they release lots of low-life criminals from jail, these same hell holes will go up in flame.
In the rural areas where we conservatives mostly live, they would provide target practice. I know lots of people around me that are well armed and not shy about taking out an intruder. Loading a round into a pump shotgun could make someone crap their pants even if they just got out of jail. This is why criminals stay out of the rural areas and the minor crimes such as occasional break-ins are almost always some kids who do so when no one is home. Even dumb ass kids are smart enough not to wander into a rural conservatives home when he might be home. We do not call 911 and wait for the Sheriff to arrive.
Appleby| 1.16.13 @ 3:35PM
During the Rodney King Loot'n'Shoot in Atlanta, a woman from the Flaming Neighbourhoods was heard asking, [vernacular translated] "Why are we buring our own neighbourhoods? Why don't we go uptown to Buckhead [where the rich White Folks live]?" And right there on TeeVee, one of her compatriots answered her: "They.Shoot.Back." And that's the name of that tune.
Pecos Pete| 1.16.13 @ 3:37PM
Von: I'm so rural the Sheriff would never arrive. And I wouldn't call 911. I own this great big backhoe.
Drunken Sailor| 1.16.13 @ 4:17PM
Pigs Pecos, invest in pigs. You can bury what's left with a shovel.
Pecos Pete| 1.16.13 @ 10:53AM
Albert, people are creative. Where there is a will there is a way.
Albert Constantine Jr.| 1.16.13 @ 11:10AM
Exactly. America's earlier settlers were masters of innovation in finding tools to dispatch their enemies. While they were quite unsuccessful in achieving their ultimate ends, they did give our forefathers a couple of centuries of difficulty before it was all worked out (and now, they enjoy the distinction of claiming Elizabeth Warren as one of their own, high cheekbones and all).
SUBVET| 1.16.13 @ 12:26PM
Pete..........everything they do is a SHAM with the end result in "control".
The CHANGE they were talking about is comming...the warning was there in the begining when this POS wasen't veted. He hid everything and "we the people" did nothing.
If you questioned anything you were called a RACIST.....a perfect cover.
I am ready to do battle just waiting to see how far the "we the people" will sit back and let this moslem change this country.
But in the end.......do we have control ?
Daniel 2 :21
Pecos Pete| 1.16.13 @ 10:55AM
Von: Exactly. The federal government wants our guns to perfect their control.
Purp| 1.16.13 @ 4:53PM
Conspiracy theories anyone? What a tool.
CJW| 1.16.13 @ 5:07PM
Purpie the Village Idiot,
Just when I thought you could not get any more stupid yous say:
"Only an all powerful government can stop women from exercising their God-given choice."
So now God has give women the choice to kill an unborn child? When did God do this? Maybe your are confusing God with the Supreme Court
bison cookie| 1.16.13 @ 9:40AM
LET’S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT: 5 COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GUNS & MASS SHOOTINGS
Following the terrifying events in Newtown, Conn., that left 26 people dead — including 20 children — the nation has turned its attention to the topic of guns and gun … READ MORE: http://bwcentral.org/2013/01/l.....shootings/
Frank Drackman| 1.16.13 @ 10:24AM
When was Richie Aprile elected Governor of New York????? I thought he was a Jersey guy.
Frank
Albert Constantine Jr.| 1.16.13 @ 11:00AM
I thought Richie was wrapped in a rug in a landfill as a result of domestic dischord with Janice.
Frank Drackman| 1.16.13 @ 11:02AM
Me to, but I'm thinkin he went into the witness protection program, you know, annonymous faceless job nobody notices, i.e. Governor of New York...
Buck Ofama| 1.16.13 @ 11:18AM
Governor of New York...
Self-appointed NY Gun Safety Czar
RFisher66| 1.16.13 @ 10:36AM
I own a semi automatic assault weapon. It's a .22 rifle that holds 18 rounds in the stock. I can pop off those 18 rounds in less than 10 seconds. I also have an assault pistol-a Sig Sauer-that holds 9 rounds in the clip that I can swap out in less than 2 seconds. I have multiple clips. So should we ban those two guns as assault weapons? How stupid can people be? A .22 will kill you just as quickly as a 7.65 from an M-16. Would to God that we could ban stupidity from Washington. Of course that would depopulate the entire area but we can always dream. Any weapon, including a pellet gun, becomes an assault weapon when used improperly. We need to find out why someone does something and fix that. They will find a "how" no matter what laws we pass.
Frank Drackman| 1.16.13 @ 11:01AM
arent 22's great?? of course my cheapskate dad insisted on only buying 22 "shorts" that required the action to be worked manually, good thing too, cause I would have probably shot up the school if I'd had ready access to those dangerous high-powered 22 Long Rifle rounds..
Oh yeah, I did(have access), and didn't(go all Charles Whitman), probably because every state I lived in had Capitol Punishment...
Frank
Al Adab| 1.16.13 @ 11:57AM
Hey Frank, Since I can't ask the pres, I'll ask you. Does my tube fed semi-auto .22 count as an assault rifle? Holds too many rounds and is semi-auto so probably so.
Frank Drackman| 1.16.13 @ 12:21PM
Good Question, Al Adab, I'll appoint a multi-disciplinary pabst-blue-ribbon commission and get back to you, after running you through the Multi-Disciplinary-Gun-Mental-Health data base, of course.
Frank Drackman, MD, POTUS
Job| 1.16.13 @ 1:10PM
daily SMC award goes to Drackman.
Frank Drackman| 1.16.13 @ 2:32PM
"SMC" SMC SMC SMC
I don't get it.
Frank
Job| 1.17.13 @ 1:32AM
Snort My Coffee. the PBR comment; when everyone asked me why i was coughing/laughin and i told them they laughed too.
Al Adab| 1.16.13 @ 2:40PM
Frank:
I shall await with thirst the Pabst (memories of Thailand) report. Certainly it will have many suggestions for the better ordering of the universe.
Truly ladies and gentlemen these are the times that try mens souls. Caesar is at the gates but where is Pompey or Cato? Where is Cicero? Will it fall to the citizens to prevent this coming civil war or are we doomed to suffer another Brutus and Cassius? As T. R. put it, "We stand at Armageddon and we battle for the Lord."
Purp| 1.16.13 @ 4:54PM
Oh, okay - let's do nothing then. That's better.
CJW| 1.16.13 @ 5:08PM
Purpie the Village Idiot,
Just when I thought you could not get any more stupid yous say:
"Only an all powerful government can stop women from exercising their God-given choice."
So now God has give women the choice to kill an unborn child? When did God do this? Maybe your are confusing God with the Supreme Court
markenoff| 1.16.13 @ 5:27PM
Eliminate gun free zones. That's where mass shooting happen.
WhiteBikerTrash| 1.16.13 @ 6:16PM
No, let's do something that will keep a repeat from happening.
First take down the "Gun Free Zone" signs. If you like we can put them up at your place, so as to not waste them.
Next, allow any person that is legally able to carry a gun, and wants to, carry a gun at the school . On the other hand at your house any person that is looking for a target rich environment and has no problem with illegal possession of a firearm can show up. A win-win situation!
nathan| 1.16.13 @ 11:12AM
Look at what he says:
There is no functional legal framework for commitment. There are hardly any mental hospital beds. There are medications which only theoretically address conditions we are barely beginning to understand. And there are the streets, jails, and prisons where millions of severely mentally ill people live without dignity, at the mercy of their demons. These people are easy to forget about and ignore. For our own sake, but more importantly for theirs, we should start paying attention. We should take responsibility for our fellow human beings. We should start exploring serious, systematic policy solutions.
Okay folks. What's the solution? Most everything we read simply says more or less, reverse the SCOTUS decision and throw them in an asylum whether they like it or not. Most of the "millions" he talks about pose no threat to other people.
What several writers this week are more or less saying is to defend the 2nd Amendment, let's trash the Fifth. To get at the handful of people who may go beserk, let's put millions behind walls. That basically is a gun control argument. A handful of people with guns misbehave, let's disarm all of them to "save one life".
Let's help these people? Sure. But at all times respecting THEIR rights too.
Pecos Pete| 1.16.13 @ 1:27PM
nathan: I'm not competent to comment about mental illness. However, you do hit on an important point: Who defines "mental illness" for purposes of incarceration? I can see King O defining anyone in the Tea Party as a mental defective for purposes of rehabilitation. Or the DHS Queen who is concerned about veterans. Etc.
The German Nazis started with physical defectives and moved on the mental defectives, then to everyone who was not properly a certified Aryan.
Al Adab| 1.16.13 @ 2:42PM
Pete:
Those definitions of mental illness worked very well for the USSR and Stalin. Remember Cancer Ward?
Riff Raff| 1.16.13 @ 11:51AM
I think we need to abandon this notion that Obama and the Democrats have any serious intention whatsoever of "preventing" attacks like Sandy Hook. These people relish in the deaths of innocent children because it is good for politics. The data on gun control is in. Gun control kills innocent people. This is no longer deniable. What Obama and the Democrats want is disarmament of innocent victims, the complete disarmament of civilians. Politicians do not fear criminals, because they are surrounded by armed body guards. So, if politicians do not fear criminals, who DO they fear? They fear an armed citizenry ready and able to stop the criminal usurpations of government, as government violates the Law and bankrupts the nation. Gun control does not even address the issue of crime. This is pure politics, and Obama is using the deaths of children NOT to make people safe, but to advance himself and government politically and to satiate his gargantuan ego. To do this requires sacrifices, the sacrifices of innocents who are disarmed by government then murdered by the criminals and lunatics that government refuses to incarcerate.
Al Adab| 1.16.13 @ 11:59AM
You got it Riff,
The issue is never the issue, the issue is control. Use every crisis that comes along to pursue the agenda.
Petronius| 1.16.13 @ 12:05PM
These prohibitionists obviously learned their tactics in Catholic school. When one kid misbehaves, the whole class gets punished. Result? Everybody hates authority? End result? Liberalism. Conservatism is equated with the horseshit disciplinary practices in the schools back in the 50's. And now, those who endured that abuse are using the powers of State to get even. Anyone and everyone who adheres to the old traditional standards of discipline, etiquette, and social convention is their enemy. They don't care about children getting shot and say not a word about the miscreant who did the shooting because down deep, they identify with him; the unaccepted misfit. It's all the fault of the majority of the community who are NORMAL don't you see? And taking away OUR Freedom to turn US into their doormats is what they've been living for all this time. Their final goal is now in sight. Once we are disarmed, they can do anything to Us they want in the form of calumnies and persecutions. Can you say Party time? Their objective of public safety is a ruse. Their true motive is personal satisfaction over driving a stake through the heart of the authority they despise, but in reality, they now wield themselves. What goes around...
Ronsch| 1.16.13 @ 12:06PM
Yes, let us ban the right to own any firearm in the US...While NerObama and his Keystone Kop administration traffics weapons to Mexico (illegally) and provides fully automatic weapons (not to mention RPGs, grenades and other assorted lethal goodies via cash or proxy) to Syrian and Libyan "freedom fighters."
Sure, makes perfect sense to me...NOT!!!!
C. Vernon Crisler | 1.16.13 @ 12:33PM
The simplest solution: Hello, ever heard of metal detectors? Armed guards?
Frank Drackman| 1.16.13 @ 1:05PM
OH, like they have at Airports...
Frank Drackman| 1.16.13 @ 1:50PM
before my comment was so rudely interupted,
"Oh, like they have at Airports, and it's a good thing, or Moe-hammed Atta-et al would have REALLY done some damage on 9-11"
Frank
C. Vernon Crisler | 1.16.13 @ 2:47PM
Airports were pretty lax prior to 911.
Frank Drackman| 1.16.13 @ 3:18PM
So how do you get the Cat, I mean Bad Guy to wear the Bell, I mean go through the Metal Detector???
Frank
Frank Drackman| 1.16.13 @ 1:05PM
Strange, that arguably the most effective weapon for spreading guts and gore,(ask Malcolm the Xth) the Pump Shotgun, would not be affected by any of EICOTUS's proposals.
Its not "Semi-automatic", doesn't have a pistol grip(usually), bayonet lug, or flash supressor, and usually holds no more than 8 rounds, in its totally tubular, albeit not sexy, magazine. And as long as local laws are adhered to, looks just like the one Elmer Fudd used to shoot Daffy Duck(remember how his beak would spin around??)
Of course the shorter barelled versions have that unfortunate name of "Riot Gun" (has there ever been a Riot ended by one?) So go ahead suckers, stock up on your Bushmasters(my nickname in Highschool BTW), 5.56, I'll be down at Walmart.
Not buying guns, thats where I meet Pablo, my Shotgun guy.
Frank(Whispering like that dude in "The Graduate") "Shotguns" Drackman
Ronsch| 1.16.13 @ 1:14PM
Frank, technically speaking, a shotgun can have all of those evil features...Before I lost all of my firearms in a tragic canoe accident, I owned a Saiga 12 gauge...it was semi-automatic, and had a 5 round magazine...The stock is what was called "monte carlo" and designed for sport shooting...The trouble is as I have aged, my shoulder cannot take the recoil of the standard monte carlo stock. I bout a Tromix Limbsaver (it is a straight stock design, and with a special recoil absorbing pad. To also lessen the recoil, I had a pistol grip installed. It forces more of the kinetic energy down into my hand. Voila! I had now created a "assault shotgun" by virtue of making it easier to shoot. Since the recoil was reduced, I bout 20 round drum magazines for it, since there was less felt recoil, I could shoot more rounds more comfortably. plus, the factory magazines were only about $40.00 less (when I bought them) than the aftermarket MD 20 drum magazines.
of course, my SxS shotguns I used for Cowboy Action Shooting I could empty and reload pretty darn fast. I could usually clear a 10 round shotgun stage back in the day in under 50 seconds or better...
Job| 1.16.13 @ 1:20PM
i knew this was eventually coming when my mom took away my johnny seven for givin my sister a black eye with one of the grenades.
Marc Jeric| 1.16.13 @ 6:24PM
Among the ACLU more recently notorious accomplishments in the news is the mass murder of pre-school children and their teachers in Newtown committed by a lunatic; ACLU lawsuits were crucial in obtaining “human rights” for the dangerously insane, so that these could refuse to be committed to asylums for such. Since that ACLU triumph many thousands of lunatics are roaming homeless in our city streets or burdening their families, while preparing the next mass murder.
Biff| 1.16.13 @ 8:02PM
I cannot help but disagree with your assumption that an effective ban on 'high-capacity' magazines would have lowered the death tolls. In the Sandy Hook tragedy, several of the 30-round magazines were found abandoned with up to 15 rounds remaining. Jamming is common to larger magazines, but it showed that the shooter had ample time to casually remove the magazine, pull another from his pocket, insert it, and continue his rampage.
The common misconception is that firing more rounds equates to a greater death toll. In order to be effective, the bullet must find its mark. The more you fire in rapid succession, the further off target your shots become.
In fact, I would submit that Adam Lanza could have killed more than 20 had he simply left the Bushmaster in the trunk and relied on his handgun. Taking his time to aim and fire would better equate to a one bullet - one kill ratio. Three or four magazines, even with the "not scary" capacity of 9 rounds each, could easily have claimed 30 victims.
CHAUSSURES FEMME AIR MAX LTD | 1.17.13 @ 4:17AM
Grenade launcher (more precisely, a muzzle device that enables launching or firing rifle grenades, though this applies only to muzzle mounted grenade launchers and not those mounted externally).