The American Spectator

Pecos Pete| 8.5.09 @ 6:51AM

Go here: http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/Facts-Are-Stubborn-Things/

The link above is to a White House blog entry asking:

"If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov."

The above quote is in the 5th paragraph.

I've sent them the link to this article. Seems like the White House wants us to report on our fellow citizens, so fill up their inbox. They'll have to hire lots of folks thus fixing the unemployment problem.

Melvin| 8.5.09 @ 7:12AM

Alright, we are going to have Obama Care that is largely based upon our lifestyles and age. Being obese, smoking, cancers, and getting old will be precursors for being denied certain medical treatments. This is a given, we know for a fact that this is in the proposed health care bill being pushed by the Obama Administration.
I present an argument to you, that could be construed as ugly, bigoted, or the favorite catch phrase of the day, "Mean Spirited." Nevertheless I feel that if we as a civilized society must put all lifestyles on the table to be judged and sentenced.
I ask of you, will chronic drug abusers be denied health care, will single mothers who are financially and lifestyle incapable of caring for their children be denied health care, and will homosexuals who contract AIDS through sexual promiscuity be denied health care.
The government has sent billions upon billions of dollars to Africa to combat AIDS that is mostly spread through multiple sex partners, and to a lesser extent drug abuse. Tell me this, how in good conscience can we tell a sixty or seventy year old who has worked hard his or her life, paid their taxes, raised a family, that getting a pacemaker is just to expensive, and given a prescription and told to see their hospice adviser but then the government turns around and spends vast amounts of tax payer money domestically and overseas to sexual irresponsibility and drug use.
Seems that there is no equality in this is it? Why can't we spend those billions upon billions of dollars that are sent overseas to countries who don't even like us but we have no problem telling grandpa and grandma, "Sorry about your luck, by the way do you have a living will?
God, we have become such callous bastards.

the Obama Deception| 8.5.09 @ 8:23AM

Healthcare down payment now, but saves billions in the future, it's a long term project.

To implement now saves in the future, because there will be a population reduction. There will be less cost for those left, if you don't have a job homeless, a pensioner, you are surplus to requirement.

Obama was born to a mother selected, and a man selected, for a moment in time, the time is now.
To fool the entire world.

Those who don't know that by now knows nothing.

Obama is Satan in human form, OBAMA-NATION.

Obama selected to do what no mortal man would do. Obama is a one term president, because while he deceives the world, the people behind him put in place their ONE WORLD ORDER.

Be ready to die from disease, poverty, homelessness, debts, invest today to receive nothing in the future.

The policy of not being allowed to die and leave anything for your kids and grand children is being put in place, while everyone is speaking about Obama, hence the huge debts being created, this is no accident.

Obama answers to the Bankers who runs America and no one else.

While people concern themselves with healthcare, and Swine flu, and Bank Bailouts, the people lose their Jobs their homes their investments.

California bankrupt and many other States Bankrupt, teachers paid with IO-you.
The day America wakes up they will wake up in a revolution, if they ever wake up.

The problem with that is the system knew that would hapen and have moves against the people for that too. Why did the CNN not publish anything to damage Obama aims for office, even though there were major damaging information about this man he was hand picked and all of the media had to follow instruction, or lose your job.

Louis Jenkins| 8.5.09 @ 8:29AM

For the life of me I cannot comprehend why Obama is eliminating some of his constituency. A good number of those due to be cut off are his supporters. Obviously he has counted the odds and believes that this program is a good bet for another office term. Illegal immigrants will receive, while those who contributed a lifetime to the economy and the nation will be cast aside and rewarded with a “pain” pill? This president continues to exhibit a policy of distain and arrogance for all that is America. I never thought I’d admit it, but I long for days when Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton were in office. I have to agree, there is a cruel hand at Obama's wheel.

Michael Tomlinson| 8.5.09 @ 9:04AM

Melvin, Barack Obama as a 21st century neo-fascist doesn't give a damn about the 60 or 70 year old you describe. His plan is about amassing power to himself and his party nothing else. By observing the failures of our government’s current social programs (welfare, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. . .) it is patently obvious that Obama Democrats are lying about the quality and cost of the proposed health care boondoggle they are trying to ram down the American people's throat. In fact, Obama Democrats don’t give a damn about providing quality health care to Americans affordable or otherwise the only thing they care about is their power and control of people’s lives.

“Obamacare” (a misnomer if there ever was one) not only means Americans will pay more for poorer health care, but we'll also see our Constitutional freedoms abridged. When "Big Obama" threatens to take away health care if people don't comply with his party’s future fascist proposals do you think Americans will resist or comply with the governments anti-democratic demands? How do you think dissenters will be treated as we see the Obama administration striving to turn Americans against Americans and create a mindless Stasi like apparachik in our country?

Democrats are anything, but democratic in their beliefs and policies. They are all about group think and reducing the freedom of individuals. Barack Obama is the perfect illustration of a narcissistic demagogue and despot. Is it any surprise that he has endorsed the election of the tyrant in Iran, but is striving to overthrow the constitutional government of Honduras?

As for your concerns about wasted expenditures to foreign governments I’m sympathetic with your concerns, but don’t think if Obama Democrats cut foreign aid they’d reduce taxes or provide affordable quality national health care to Americans. As I stated earlier he and Democrats don’t give a damn about people (their party’s history is evidence of this), but it is about government limiting freedom and controlling the lives of individuals for the “good of the state.”

Obama and the Democrat party are on the fast-track to making the United States just another declining Western nation or even worse an authoritarian state governed by an avaricious oligarchy made up clones of the hateful, ignorant, egocentric and devious Barack Obama.

Tenn Slim| 8.5.09 @ 9:18AM

Obama's health care proposal is, in effect, the repeal of the Medicare program as we know it. The elderly will go from being the group with the most access to free medical care to the one with the least access. Indeed, the principal impact of the Obama health care program will be to reduce sharply the medical services the elderly can use. No longer will their every medical need be met, their every medication prescribed, their every need to improve their quality of life answered.
Our experience yesterday:!
Scheduled a Sonogram, for a blocked artery via our Primary Care Physician. Arrived for the test. Medicare note, DENIED, due to insufficient rationale for the test. Simple, no test, blockage undetermined, no recourse. OF COURSE, I had the option of paying for the test, some 2-3 grand at the Hospital.
Multiply this one occurrence across the Seniors alive today, needing this one type of test. You have denial of service, simpy due to a Cost Analysis Civil servant responding to a rule, set in concrete, at his computer.
Folks, The top level analysis quoted makes it all seem somehow analytical, clear, cool, and really neat to read. Try living with a blocked artery.....
end
Semper Fi

Mike| 8.5.09 @ 9:29AM

A few observations about Mr. Ferrara's article:
1. There is no mention of the fact that private insurance companies working through the market ration health care. This rationing excludes millions from health care.
2. We don't have the best health care system in the world. This oft repeated right wing lie is refuted by the fact that Americans pay more for health care as a part of GDP than other industrialized nations for higher infant mortality rates and other disturbing health care statistics.
3. No mention of the fact that 30% of premium dollars go to non-benefit costs: profits, CEO salaries and an army of private sector bureaucrats whose job it is to figure out how to deny paying claims.
4. No mention of (1) preexisting conditions (3) rescission (3) life time caps. These are all favorites of the profits over people private insurance companies.
5. The Lewin Group is owned by Ingenix which is owned by United Healthcare. Cited by the GOP and the right wing as "independent," it is anything but.
6. Dick Morris writes: "The elderly will go from being the group with the most access to free medical care to the one with the least access." Asinine statement! Medicare is not free. Along with Social Security it is one of the entitlement programs that is a ticking financial bomb. This is an example of how propagandists can quickly become stupid.
7. Choosing one's own doctor. Right. You can choose your own "out of network" doctor if you are willing to pay most of the expenses out of pocket.

Again, I see no alternative to the legislation being proposed other than "the market" solution. This solution is being wrapped in lies and scare tactics (e.g. a government worker will come to ask you how you want to die - probably in a black helicopter).
I'm curious, Mr. Ferrara: Who funded your Heartland Institute study? Insurance companies? Big Pharma? Who? How about a little full disclosure from one who accuses the current administration of lacking in transparency.

The Question is WHY| 8.5.09 @ 9:31AM

Louis Jenkins| 8.5.09 @ 8:29AM
For the life of me I cannot comprehend why Obama is eliminating some of his constituency. A good number of those due to be cut off are his supporters.
__________________________________

Why would you care if you were Obama knowing you'll serbe one term, he was a token Black president. Obama was hand picked for a cirtain job, that job is to deceive the population.

This deception is not only America, but the world.
Obama in, Europe, Obama in Russia, Obama in Africa, Obama in the Arab world, ask your self the question where have youe ever had a President that has done so much travel in the first 6 months?

Obama signed a treaty for the reduction in Nuclear arms in Russia, in less than 3 weeks the treaty has been broken.

Obama and Hillary in Africa to deceive the Africans, talking about business when America is so bankrupt they cant find money to pay school teachers to do their jobs. But here whe have these deceivers in Africa the poorest people in the world, Obama is expecting these people to accept IOU for their raw materials when they can't even develope.

Blacks in America & whites have been deceived, Blacks in Africa is being deceived. Obama is an insult to Black people the world over.

No one had heard of this guy, he came out of nowhere, beat Hillary, McCain, and all known Politicans, raised more money in campaign funds, Obama broke records, because he had to win at all cost, what you need to ask yourselves WHY, was it so important to put this puppet in the white house.

The only fools live in the USA| 8.5.09 @ 9:43AM

Putin former KGB, knew what America was doing in picking Obama.

Russia response is to pick his own puppet, Medvedve, Putin is coming back, Obama can't fool Putin. America and Russia have their one term president. America sponcer of Georgia to stir it with Russia is being watched.

America stirs it with Iran, it's being watched. Russia is not buying into Obamas false sense of security, on sale to the world.

Jennifer| 8.5.09 @ 9:49AM

Does anyone ever READ their EOB after a doctor's visit???? I live in Alabama and Blue Cross is essentially the ONLY game in town. They have about 95% of the market share. They have forced all other competition out of town; no other insurance company can compete in this market. And don't think for a minute that Blue Cross doesn't dictate what my doctor does and how much she receives for doing it. I check my EOB's after every visit and am constantly amazed at how they manage to pay next to nothing for the services I received. There's such a thing in the insurance world as "customary and reasonable" which translates into "how little the insurance company can reimburse the physician for her services." My doctor no longer gives penicillin injections because Blue Cross doesn't reimburse her enough to cover the actual cost. I pay a fortune for my crappy health insurance, nearly $1000 per month because my husband is self employed and we don't qualify for the group rates employees of large corporations enjoy. So yes, I'm extremely interested in a government sponsored alternative. It really can't be any crappier than what I have now.

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 9:51AM

You morons do realize that the Heartland Institute has been actively involved in debate over tobacco policy, opposing restrictions on smoking and criticizing science which documents the harms of secondhand smoke.

This institute is a sham. You have to be a sheep to follow anything they say.

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 10:14AM

SREDNYAYA AKHTUBA, Russia – An African-born farmer is making an improbable run for office in Russia, inspired by President Barack Obama and undaunted by racial attitudes that have changed little in decades.

Joaquim Crima, a 37-year-old native of Guinea Bissau who settled in southern Russia after earning a degree at a local university, is promising to battle corruption and bring development to his district on the Volga River.

In Russia, a black man running for office is so unusual that Crima is being called "the Russian Obama."

"I like Obama as a person and as a politician because he proved to the world what everyone thought was impossible. I think I can learn some things from him," Crima said, sitting on his shady verandah in this town of 11,000, where he lives with his wife Anait, their 10-year-old son and an extended clan of ethnic Armenian relatives.

Tony in Central PA| 8.5.09 @ 10:41AM

The idea that government can eliminate the " 30% waste " in health care spending is laughable. 30% waste in a government - run enterprise is an impossibile dream.
The article made no mention of FOCA. I was puzzled why FOCA seemed to fade from the scene with a minimal amount of screeching from the media. It appears that the legislation has been stuffed into this Frankenstinian health bill which the Administration doesn't want anybody to study. Transparency and accountability. The joke's on us.

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 11:07AM

THE SECURITY YOU GET from health insurance reform:

* No Discrimination for Pre-Existing Conditions
* Insurance companies will be prohibited from refusing you coverage because of your medical history.
* No Exorbitant Out-of-Pocket Expenses, Deductibles or Co-Pays
* Insurance companies will have to abide by yearly caps on how much they can charge for out-of-pocket expenses.
* No Cost-Sharing for Preventive Care
* Insurance companies must fully cover, without charge, regular checkups and tests that help you prevent illness, such as mammograms or eye and foot exams for diabetics.
* No Dropping of Coverage for Seriously Ill
* Insurance companies will be prohibited from dropping or watering down insurance coverage for those who become seriously ill.
* No Gender Discrimination
* Insurance companies will be prohibited from charging you more because of your gender.
* No Annual or Lifetime Caps on Coverage
* Insurance companies will be prevented from placing annual or lifetime caps on the coverage you receive.
* Extended Coverage for Young Adults
* Children would continue to be eligible for family coverage through the age of 26.
* Guaranteed Insurance Renewal
* Insurance companies will be required to renew any policy as long as the policyholder pays their premium in full. Insurance companies won't be allowed to refuse renewal because someone became sick.

Michael Tomlinson| 8.5.09 @ 11:09AM

1. Like the majority of American I'd rather have a trained insurance person rationing my health care than a callous, incompetent and indifferent government bureaucrat.
2. As one who has lived in Europe and Asia and experienced socialized medicine first hand our system is far superior to that of Europe’s system of poor and inadequate care that is under staffed and poorly trained. In some Western European countries the sick have to bring their own bedding and towels with them to the hospital. There are even times they must supply their own test tubes to get tests run. National health isn’t free it’s just bad. If America’s health care is bad now it will only get worse when the Federal government runs it as illustrated by their failure to manage Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. . .
3. The 30% that goes to so-called “overhead” in the private sector is a pittance to what national health care will cost in terms of not only salaries to second-rate unionized Federal bureaucrats, but tax dollars and lives. Whatever the government estimates the cost of “Obamacare” will be we know it is too low, because Democrat social programs always cost more than they estimate.
4. Anyone who believes the Federal government is going to be generous and fair in distribution of health care is self-deluded. In Europe specialists are rare and the wait to see one is beyond long and the distribution of those skills is often decided by political connection. Like every program designed by Democrats their special interest groups (homosexual lobby, unions, ACORN. . .) will receive preferential treatment. If “Obamacare” is going to be so ideal why want Democrats agree to have their health care managed by the same bureaucrats Obama and they want to manage ours? Of course, for those who want government to control every aspect of life the sick are irrelevant.
5. The Obama administration and Democrat party are lying about what they actually intend to do and want. Obama and Democrats have consistently said they want a single-payer government/nationalized system, but now that the majority of Americans oppose their power grab, they are lying and distorting what they’ve said and the opposition is saying. When two sexual predators (Ted Kennedy and Barney Frank) are more honest about their goals for national health than the man sitting in the White House it makes his veracity on this and every issue dubious.
6. Dick Morris is correct that under “Obamacare” taking a pill instead of quality medical care will be the solution to senior’s ailments. Obama himself has made this perfectly clear and if a pill want satisfy poor seniors then they can talk to a Federally paid counselor about reconciling themselves with the idea of dying – how generous of BO.
7. If Medicare and Medicaid are ticking financial time bombs what do the idiots who support “Obamacare” think it will be? If the Federal government has failed to manage these programs how will they be able to manage a national health care system? Liberals/Democrats have their heads so far up Obama’s “ass” that they don’t realize how stupid they and their policy proposals really are.
8. Unless "Obamacare" is covered by the Feres Doctrine Democrat trial lawyers will run up the costs of national health care to a point where the bankrupt US Treasury cannot get the Chinese to cover the nation's debts any longer.
9. Under “Obamacare” a Federal bureaucrat will have more decision making power about American’s health care needs than doctors.
10. Unlike Obama, John Conyers and Democrats in Congress it might be wise for supporters of “Obamacare” to find out what’s in the bill before calling others liars. Especially in light of the fact that Obama has lied either in the past or now about what he wants. Of course, when BO’s lips are moving he’s lying.

Pete| 8.5.09 @ 11:14AM

Says it all...he 'vows' many things, the opposite of which always come to pass.

"The President has vowed that the health reform process will be different in his Administration – an open, inclusive, and transparent process where all ideas are encouraged and all parties work together to find a solution to the health care crisis. Working together with members of Congress, doctors and hospitals, businesses and unions, and other key health care stakeholders, the President is committed to making sure we finally enact comprehensive health care reform."

Michael Tomlinson| 8.5.09 @ 11:16AM

If Barack Obama is so transparent why does he refuse to release his academic transcripts, his long form birth certificate, the accurate details of how he met his wife, whether he wants a government run single-payer medical system (he's lied in the past or is lying now) and other relevant details that are generally released by Presidential candidates or Presidents? If we can't trust him with these simple things how can we trust him with so complicated a thing as real health care reform as oppossed to establishing an ineffective and costly Federal health care bureaucracy?

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 11:20AM

What other President was required to release transcripts, birth certificate, and how he met his wife (what?). And he clearly stated his plans for health care reform. Time to find something else to gripe about.

Doorgunner| 8.5.09 @ 11:24AM

"it was also interesting to see that political interaction in Europe is not that different from the United States Senate. There's a lot of -- I don't know what the term is in Austrian, wheeling and dealing." --confusing German for "Austrian," a language which does not exist, Strasbourg, France, April 6, 2009

Doorgunner| 8.5.09 @ 11:25AM

"What I was suggesting -- you're absolutely right that John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith..." --in an interview with ABC's George Stephanopoulos, who jumped in to correct Obama by saying "your Christian faith," which Obama quickly clarified (Watch video clip)

Doorgunner| 8.5.09 @ 11:27AM

"Just this past week, we passed out of the out of the U.S. Senate Banking Committee -- which is my committee -- a bill to call for divestment from Iran as way of ratcheting up the pressure to ensure that they don't obtain a nuclear weapon." --referring to a committee he is not on, Sderot, Israel, July 23, 2008

Doorgunner| 8.5.09 @ 11:30AM

"On this Memorial Day, as our nation honors its unbroken line of fallen heroes -- and I see many of them in the audience here today -- our sense of patriotism is particularly strong."

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 11:32AM

I think I finally figured it out. I can't believe I didn't see this. Back in 61 Obama's family in Kenya decided to fake his birth certificate so he would be an American citizen. Then they trained him to prepare for Jihad. They moved to Hawaii prepping him to be President. They figured since he is black he would be a shoe in. Then once he passed his 6 month of President he would show his Muslim faith by passing laws requiring all Americans to pray to Mecca and stop smoking cigarettes. After that, he would join forces with Iran and attack Britian, France, Germany, Austria, Israel and Canada so him and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad can rule the world. Those bastards, it is so transparent now.

Doorgunner| 8.5.09 @ 11:36AM

"Hold on one second, sweetie, we're going to do -- we'll do a press avail." --to a female reporter for ABC's Detroit affiliate who asked about his plan to help American autoworkers

Doorgunner| 8.5.09 @ 11:37AM

"I've now been in 57 states -- I think one left to go." --at a campaign event in Beaverton, Oregon

Doorgunner| 8.5.09 @ 11:39AM

"You're likeable enough, Hillary." --during a Democratic debate

Doorgunner| 8.5.09 @ 11:40AM

"The point I was making was not that Grandmother harbors any racial animosity. She doesn't. But she is a typical white person, who, if she sees somebody on the street that she doesn't know, you know, there's a reaction that's been bred in our experiences that don't go away and that sometimes come out in the wrong way, and that's just the nature of race in our society."

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 11:41AM

"I didn't want to get into a Nancy Reagan thing about doing any seances." --after saying he had spoken with all the living presidents as he prepared to take office, Washington, D.C., Nov. 7, 2008

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 11:42AM

"It's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." --explaining his troubles winning over some working-class voters

Doorgunner| 8.5.09 @ 11:43AM

blunted... yeah mon....

typical little ofay white boy.... got all dem "I'm down" political bumpah stickah on him suburu...

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 11:43AM

"Why can't I just eat my waffle?" --after being asked a foreign policy question by a reporter while visiting a diner in Pennsylvania

Doorgunner| 8.5.09 @ 11:45AM

Yep, chairman urkel gots me pegged heckzactly!

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 11:45AM

Umm I drive a Nissan Frontier and Mazda 6 sports sedan. Just a "I love my pitbull" bumper sticker.

Pneumonic Plauge in China| 8.5.09 @ 11:47AM

If dangling the carrot don't get you fright from plauges will.

During the Medieval period the plague went by several names, the most common being "the Pestilence" and "The Great Mortality ". Theories about the cause of the disease were numerous, ranging from a punishment from God to planetary alignment to evil stares. Not surprisingly, many people believed that the horrors of the Black Death signaled the Apocalypse, or end of time. Others believed that the disease was a plot by Jews to poison all of the Christian world, and many Jews were killed by panicked mobs.

The truth. The Black Death is a bacteria-born disease; the bacteria in question being Yersinia pestis, which was carried in the blood of wild black rats and the fleas that lived off the rats. Normally there is no contact between these fleas and human beings, but when their rat hosts die, these fleas are forced to seek alternatives - including humans!

The symptoms. The plague produces several different symptoms in its victims. Bubonic, the most common form of the plague, produces fist-sized swellings, called bulboes, at the site of flea bites - usually in the groin, armpits, or neck. The swellings are intensely painful, and the victims die in 2-6 days. The buboes are red at first, but later turn a dark purple, or black. This black colouring gives the "Black Death" its name. Pneumonic plague occurs when the infection enters the lungs, causing the victim to vomit blood. Infected pneumonic people can spread the disease through the air by coughing, sneezing, or just breathing! In Septicemic plague the bacteria enters the person's bloodstream, causing death within a day.

Doorgunner| 8.5.09 @ 11:48AM

Just like Mike Vick!

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 11:50AM

Yep except instead of pitbulls, I beat conservatives like you on this blog. Hey, I got to go. See you around sucker. Come up with a wittier response while I'm gone.

Doorgunner| 8.5.09 @ 11:50AM

Bet you wear his jersey and a doo rag, too! Except when Mom tells you to put on your good clothes 'cuz company is coming.

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 11:52AM

Yeah dude I'm the guy on Napolean Dynamite. Saw your last post and couldn't resist. Later.

Bob| 8.5.09 @ 12:01PM

Well, it looks like the crazies -- on both the left AND right (including the birthers) are out in force today. So I'd like to introduce some facts into the discussion.

First, let's all agree that the current state of employer based health care is great -- and better than you can get in any country. However, you need to remember that this started as a perk in order to pay lower salaries to manufacturing workers. It had the added benefit to companies of keeping the laborers healthy. However, with the significant rise in health care costs, this is beginning to change. The companies will charge YOU more and you will get less. Currently companies pay about $12,000 a year per family. If there is not a change, this will grow to $16,000 a year in 5 years and you will pay at least $10,000 a year. This is simply a fact.

Secondly, health care costs us 16% of GDP -- far higher than any other country. This makes us UNCOMPETITIVE in manufacturing. Without manufacturing, we won't have jobs and our standard of living will decline. This will also cause the dollar to rise even more than the Fed is doing to us right now.

From an economic standpoint, we MUST solve these issues. I don't believe Obamacare is the answer, but neither are the Republican straw dogs presented.

Those of you who are against the public option may be using the wrong strategy. The public option is fine with me AS LONG AS IT IS NOT SUBSIDIZED. You can do that by requiring actuarial reviews and full allocation of management costs. The government has never been efficient at managing anything -- this will be no different. Besides, Ol' Tex will tell you that adverse selection will cause the real cost of these public plans to go through the roof. So the issue is to insure that the legislation properly accounts for the full costs of this option. If you can't get a non-subsidized accounting in the public option bill, then it should be fought.

Lastly, those without employer based plans are stuck with additional costs because the insurance companies make their profits off of you. Therefore, there should be a provision that YOU can get a group plan to equal that of a large employer. With a large enough pool, this should not be a problem.

We can go into much more detail, but all of the plans currently on the plate stink because they are inundated with left wing or right wing politics, not good solutions for us.

If you're interested in a good plan, you should call for term limits, public funding for elections, and no lobbyist donations. Then we'll finally get a citizen government and not professional politicians.

Mike | 8.5.09 @ 12:05PM

Tomlinson writes: "Like the majority of American I'd rather have a trained insurance person rationing my health care than a callous, incompetent and indifferent government bureaucrat." You may get your wish. But make no mistake about it, that trained insurance person will ration your sorry, dumb ass right out of their pool the minute you become too expensive. However, if memory serves, you are (were) military so you have access to health care through the VA. Even William Kristol concedes that this is the best in the nation. Funny how you can proselytize against health care reform from this position. By the way, check the administrative costs at the VA hospital in Virginia compared to any private hospital.

Grzmlyk| 8.5.09 @ 12:09PM

Not only that, doorgunner, not one single individual filed suit charging anyone actually eavesdropped on them. Not one.

Jennifer, be careful what you wish for. First off, government regulations and incentives have a lot to do with why you're being screwed - or perceive yourself as such. I have Blue Cross too, and I do read my EOB's, and they cover probably 85 percent of my medical costs - and I've accrued many over the last few years.

Mike, I do hope you're proud of yourself. What a good boy are you. However, you, too, are destined to become merely a cog in the Obama statist machine. They won't pull you out of the conveyor belt of medicrity and say, wow, this guy is a TRUE BELIEVER! He bought our pabulum hook, line and sinker! We'll give him our extra-good health care!!!

No, you'll be Liberal powerlust fodder like ever other American.

I wonder if you'll be so puffed up and proud of what a smart little liberal you are when you find out first hand that, at the other end of Big Government's beneficent smile is a sausage machine.

And YOU'RE what's for breakfast.

Gill O’Teen ✝✡| 8.5.09 @ 12:28PM

I regret that many people are having problems with the current health care system. That does not mean it’s not the best in the world. It only means it has some problems. If I have a flat tire on my way to work, it does not mean I have a clunker. It means I need to replace the flat with the spare. If I don’t have a spare, I am the only one to blame. I certainly do not have a right to toss nails all over the highway so that all the other commuters also have flat tires. If in order to pass its annual safety inspection, my car needs a new lightbulb for the right side brake light, I would not hire a politician to rebuild the engine even if he offered to do it for free. I certainly would not sign over to that hack the right to make all future decisions about maintaining my car at my expense, nor would I give that hack full access to my bank accounts. No, I would go to the auto parts store, buy a replacement bulb and replace the defective one. Under obumahcare there will be no parts stores.

Bob| 8.5.09 @ 12:56PM

Gill -- it is the best healthcare system for about half of the country. For the other half, it isn't. The problem for the half of you with great health care, however, is that it costs too much for our society and in a decade or two, we will be so uncompetitive from a business standpoint that our children and grandchildren will suffer. Too many of you look at the situation right now and don't think about what it will be like in the future.

Personally, I currently like my Blue Cross employer plan. It is great. But I have kids who work for small companies without any plans and their plans are expensive and don't cover much. A flat tire is easily fixed and your cost of fixing it is not related to other people. Health care costs are shared, and that makes your analogy wrong.

Grzmlyk, even Republicans say we need to fix health care -- but they don't have any plans except for tax incentives (which don't work for more than half of the population). If there were real competition in the insurance industry, that would certainly help, but there isn't. Most states have only one or two carriers that cover the majority of that state's population. The small carriers specialize in very small niches and cannot compete on a broad basis. Again, we cannot compete as a country with health care costs as high as they are. Furthermore, we can't fund Medicare. So besides getting rid of Medicare and allowing you to buy across state lines (which will not work because companies like Blue Cross will nationalize), what is your solution to the cost problem? And please don't say tort reform, there are already dozens of studies that say that cost saving is minimal (and one that says otherwise and is limited).

Mike| 8.5.09 @ 12:57PM

Grzmlyk,
They have good medication to combat paranoia on the market today. I suggest you see your personal physician about acquiring some. If you are a senior, don't forget to thank W for the prescription drug plan to will help underwrite the cost.

Ryan| 8.5.09 @ 1:03PM

Two issues with Mike:

Point #2. is a left-wing falsehood. America counts any child born with a single breath as "alive" and it counts against infant mortality rates.

There are other countries who wait SIX MONTHS until they count a child dying against their infant mortality rate.

Also, MANY of your so-called issues are fixed with HSA expansion.

Mike| 8.5.09 @ 1:08PM

Ryan,

Give me the sources of your information. If its the Lewin Group or Ferrara's sham institute, I'm not buying it.

Allan| 8.5.09 @ 1:10PM

Bob is right, all the propagandists are out today.

1. The health care bill lists maximum deductibles/out of pocket expenses as $5,000 for individuals and $10,000 for families. No free ride for Blunted.
2. Private health care companies are completely regulated by government - state government. The right to deny coverage and the mandated coverages for exotic illnesses and treatments required in some states are all the result of government dictates.
3. We do have the best health system in the world. The difference in infant mortality rates is due to the way we caluclate that number as opposed to the way other nations ignore stillborns, etc. in order to make their stats look better when in fact they are worse than ours. Health care is only 15% of the determinant in life expectancy.
4. Go to any foreign country and see how quick you can find a hospital in any part of the country that has CT and MRI as opposed to America. Trust me, once you know you'll be a nervous traveler.
5. The health care system is not broken. The chronic uninsured, which excludes illegals and those able to buy insurance but choose not to, is only 10 million people. Why would anyone disrupt the lives of 290 million people in order to fix a problem affecting only 10 million people. The answer is power and cotrol which has nothing to do with health care.
6. We pay more for health care because we have more to buy. New hips, new knees, and once debillitating surgeries are now outpatient, minimally invasive procedures.
7. Obama says we must have his wacky proposal to make America more competitive in the world marketplace. If Democrats were in any way concerned about our competitiveness, they would lower corporate income taxes which are the second highest in the industrialized world.

The bottom line? Democrats are lying through their teeth. You know it, they know it and they're tremendously angry about the fact that you know they're lying.

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 1:19PM

Hey, another repube just jumped ship. Same thing will happen when the health care bill comes up. Why you say? Because everyone wants to get re-elected.

WASHINGTON – Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor picked up more Republican support Wednesday in her drive toward near-certain Senate confirmation this week as the first Hispanic justice, even as the vast majority of the GOP called her unfit for the bench.

Sen. Kit Bond, R-Mo., became the seventh Republican to announce he'll vote for President Barack Obama's nominee, saying he disagrees with some of her rulings and statements, but considers her a well-qualified jurist.

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 1:25PM

Allan, I have health insurance and am happy with it. I got Lyme disease recently and it cost $15 bucks for the doctors visit and antibiotics combined. Sadly millions of Americans don't have health insurance. They are stuck going to the hospital where they fail to pay their bill. How much would that bill be for the uninsured who typically can't afford insurance in the first place? $150 bucks for the visit and $75 for the antibiotics for a total of $225 bucks. Who gets stuck paying for it? That's right, you and I. This is happening all over the country.So I suggest you stfu and address me as sir next time.

Bob| 8.5.09 @ 1:46PM

Allan, as far as I am able to determine, most of your statements are right, but some are wrong. The left wing says 50 million are uninsured and the right says 10 million. A good part of the the people who make over $75K and don't have insurance do so because they have pre-existing conditions and the price is too high. So the real number is somewhere between the high and low.

You are right that we are willing to pay for more, but some countries like Argentina pay for cosmetic surgery and we don't. Furthermore, there are many procedures that you named that a good number of insurance policies don't cover.

Therefore, BOTH Democrats and Republicans are lying through their teeth so they can get donations and votes from those who don't know any better. I have a difficult time determining who lies more when you actually look at the facts. As citizens, we need a better way to get the facts. I'm retired and have a background in analysis so I can do some of the work myself, but it requires me to look at both sides and try to separate fact from fiction. Remember, if they are a politician, they are lying (or stretching the truth).

As for corporate taxes, I've been a proponent for abolishing the corporate income tax and replacing it with a consumption tax. That will tax all goods, no matter where they are made, and not provide an incentive for companies to relocate in the Cayman Islands.

I would also like to see the government out of the incentive business whether it be in different income tax rates (I like a flat tax), in subsidies (like ethanol), or tax breaks for special businesses. The government should just make sure that businesses don't cheat and that they have adequate capital for their liabilities.

The sooner fiscal conservatives get off the anti-Obama and anti-abortion bandwagons and just push for good fiscal policies, the better off we will be.

Tony in Central PA| 8.5.09 @ 1:49PM

This is for blunted. You have said there are millions of Americans without health insurance. The Administration last placed that number at 47 million. How many MD's, specialists, PA's, LPN's, RN's, administrative support personnel, ER's, hospitals, clinics, testing facilities, rehab facilites, business offices, etc. will it take to care for 47 million people ? Where will these health care workers come from ?

Wait a minute, I know - - " The Government ".

Allan| 8.5.09 @ 1:57PM

Blunted, you'll have to earn the sir, I can't give it to you.
Believe me you are completely in the dark as to how health care in this country works.

And it works just fine and will continue to do so unless the feds get in the way.

What finely run federal program will serve as a beacon for this federal boondoggle? The bankrupt Medicare program, the bankrupt social security program? They both have tens of trillions in unfunded accrued liabilities. How about Amtrak? FEMA?

If you want to voucher insurance for the 10 million who truly can't afford insurance then do so. Revamping the entire system is folly
The solution is portability; ability to buy across state lines; restricitng underwriting criteria for employer based plans to ISO class rather than individual health assessments; ability to purchase basic health insurance free of unnecessary bells and whistles; revamping of EMTALA so non-emergent designations can be done efficiently to contain costs and, of course, caps on malpractice awards so the $100 billion swallowed up by defensive medicine can be used to help pay coverage for those 10 million uninsured.
No taxes, premium increases or federal meddling necessary.

Bob| 8.5.09 @ 2:07PM

Allan, I'm sure you get your "facts" from right wing blogs, but they are wrong. As I said in my previous post, the true uninsured is more than 10 million and less than 50 million. My estimate is about 30 million. Again, many who can afford a regular plan have pre-existing conditions and thus cannot get a plan or have to pay $15-20K to get it.

Regarding malpractice awards, it was one Stanford study that just looked at heart disease in hospitals that came up with that amount. Every other study found problems with that and the true cost of malpractice/defensive medicine only amounts to 1-3%. Here's a link from FactCheck:

http://www.factcheck.org/president_uses_dubious_statistics_on_costs_of.html

Rather than using either right or left wing talking points -- or believing politicians (which is worse) -- do the homework yourself.

Louis Jenkins| 8.5.09 @ 2:12PM

Health care costs too much, yet our illustrious leaders can order up three luxury Gulf Stream jets for their personal use to the tune of $200 million.
http://www.rollcall.com/media/37552-1.html
How about saving that dough for medicare or medicaid? Our lying leaders just don't get it!!

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 2:17PM

Allan, it works fine for some yes I give you that. What about for everyone else? I to am skeptical about the government taking care of the money and regulating to pay for this thing but reform is necessary. Insurance companies are making record profits while the quality of care is declining. I try to stay away from the doctor as much as possible because every time I go the doctor is pushing pills, shots, and unnecessary procedures. Every year my monthly payment increases because of this. To many special interest groups are involved to pad their pocket books. Reform is necessary.

Marc Jeric| 8.5.09 @ 2:18PM

"Pre-existing conditions"? How about asking for car insurance after the accident? How about asking for flood or earthquake insurance after the flood or after the earthquake? A fellow who for 30 years of being without health insurance finds one day he has cancer and then wants health insurance? The present value of not paying $3,000/year for health insurance is worth about one million dollars after 30 years; and it is irrelevant whether he invested his "savings" in the stock market or just drank the money up. I for one do not want to see my premiums go up because of that irresponsible moron.

Marc Jeric| 8.5.09 @ 2:22PM

Here I read that ACORN brownshirt's remark about "second-hand smoke" in order to illegitimize Heartland Institute. That is another example of manufactured environmental studies with predetermined outcomes - the one about the cancerous effects of “second-hand smoke”. The study sample of elderly women born in the 1930’s and 1940’s consisted of 1,070 such women suffering from lung cancer that have never smoked themselves; they were asked whether one or both of their parents smoked when they were children. The answer was that 170 of them did in fact have at least one smoking parent. The environmentalists concluded, of course, that the second-hand smoke is the cause of their later age lung cancer. Do you see the hoax here? Let me make a sample of any 1,070 elderly women regardless whether they have developed lung cancer or not. Since the men living in the 1930-40’s were smoking at the rate of 75% (let us ignore the 35% of women smokers) this random sample of mine would have discovered that 75% of them or 802 would have had at least one smoking parent. Evidently, in the sample of 1,070 elderly non-smoking women with lung cancer this number of 802 would have been the zero point for any influence of second-hand smoke on later development of their lung cancers, and any excess over that number could have been assigned, however loosely, to their parents’ smoking. But their “study” found only 170 of such women! The only logical conclusion by any neutral and real scientist should have been that a lot of these elderly women, at least the difference between 802 and 170 or 632, were in fact immunized against later lung cancer development by their exposure to second-hand smoke in their childhood. And what about the number of elderly women with lung cancer who had no smoking parents – some 900 of them? How did they get it? In my own uncontrolled number exercise I found out that living 40 years with a smoking spouse was equivalent to being stuck for one hour in the freeway rush hour traffic – in other words less than negligible. But the relentless campaign against smokers continues unabated; the smokers today are like the Jews in the Hitler’s Germany. New taxes and prohibitions are now on the way.

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 2:24PM

Marc Jeric,

What about the guy who had insurance 29 years, was laid off , lost his insurance, and then gets cancer?

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 2:26PM

The guy with cancer who hasn't had insurance for 30 years will still get the treatment. He will be one of the millions who get treated and never pay their bill which in turn makes premiums go up.

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 2:31PM

Marc jeric. Second hand smoke as a danger has been well documented. Even in 2003 the American LUng Association found In the United States, 21 million, or 35 percent of, children live in homes where residents or visitors smoke in the home on a regular basis. Approximately 50-75 percent of children in the United States have detectable levels of cotinine, the breakdown product of nicotine in the blood.

The Heartland people are simply moronic.

Gill O’Teen ✝✡| 8.5.09 @ 2:33PM

I freely admit that I’m not the brightest bulb in the chandelier. Evidently, even my feeble attempt at a simple analogy was not understood. So, I’m willing to concede that I am possibly wrong to believe that our health care system is the best in the world. All you hope and changers need to do to convince me of my heresy is fill in the blanks in the following paragraph.

Your primary care physician believes you have stage three testicular cancer and that it has spread to your lungs, abdomen and brain. On your first visit to a urologist you are already coughing up blood and have a large, painful testicular tumor. Immediate surgery and chemotherapy are required to save your life. After this surgery, your doctor believes you have less than a 50% survival chance. Not a quitter, you decide to fight to live. You feel that your chances of success will be best at ___________ (name of hospital) in __________ (city), ___________ (state or country). For example, cycling champion Lance Armstrong, whose story I shamelessly stole from his Wikipedia article for this comment, might fill in the blanks with ‘Indiana University Medical Center (name of hospital) in ‘Indianapolis’ (city), ‘Indiana’ (state or country). You are not a seven time Tour de France Champion like Mr. Armstrong, but where would you choose?

It would help me better comprehend if you would support your choice with hard and irrefutable evidence. And please don’t try replacing facts with personal estimates. Just muddies the waters.

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 2:36PM

Any person that smokes around children in the home are despicable. Get your lard ass off the couch and go outside. Kill yourself but don't kill your child, spouse, or animal.

blunted | 8.5.09 @ 2:40PM

My grandfather just got stomach cancer. He was told that he had about 6 months to live. The doctor convinced him to get chemotherapy saying their is a slight chance you can live longer, about a year or two. He took the doctors advice, the tumor never shrunk, and he died in 3 weeks. I'm convinced that the doctor was just trying to make a buck knowing my grandfather was going to die anyway.

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 2:51PM

When did government programs become broke? Was it after the Iraq war? Pretty sure we could have used the Iraq welfare money over here. Or is it only kosher when we spend it on foreign countries?

Griff| 8.5.09 @ 2:57PM

For those responding to Pecos Pete's suggested email link (flag@whitehouse.gov): Send 'em this link (opens the "healthcare" bill) as a suspected fishy healthcare site.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.pdf

Ryan| 8.5.09 @ 2:59PM

Hey Bob,

I disagree with you on a couple of things:
1. Malpractice. Even if the numbers are as low as you state (which I would be surprised if they were), we still need tort reform. That being said, there is also an issue with over-diagnosis BECAUSE of malpractice issues and insurance, where doctors may go too far overboard, thus raising costs. Where is the study that you cite - I see it a lot from the left, and it's suspiciously low.

2. I am both a fiscal and (mostly) social conservative, and I will ALWAYS be hung up on being pro-life. Yes, I know that too often people with such hangups aren't good fiscally in government, but I've seen you too often dismiss the idea as backward. It's not QUITE a single-issue for me (it's never been a problem with any major vote I've had), but it's a position that the Republicans cannot - and should not - dismiss.

That being said, I think the numbers on uninsured are 20-30 million as well because of the preexisting issues.

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 3:01PM

Uninsured during the Bush era by the Census Bureau:

Data released today by the Census Bureau show that the number of uninsured Americans stood at a record 46.6 million in 2005, with 15.9 percent of Americans lacking health coverage. “The number of uninsured Americans reached an all-time high in 2005,” said Robert Greenstein, executive director of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. “It is sobering that 5.4 million more people lacked health insurance in 2005 than in the recession year of 2001, primarily because of the erosion of employer-based insurance.”

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 3:03PM

Pretty sure with people being let go and unemployment being at a high, this number increased by at least 5.4 million. My guess is somewhere in the 50 million range.

FeralCat| 8.5.09 @ 3:09PM

Please Mr. Obama, I don’t wanna go
Hey, Mr. Obama, please don’t make me go
I had a dream last night about my comin’ medical care
Somebody said “What you’ll get is ObamaCare!’”
And there I stood with a rag in my mouth upon which to bite.

Look at them waiting lines there, they’re hardly even movin’
And there’s a bureaucrat at every one
Hey, Mr. Obama, you mind if I be excused the rest of the decade?
HEY MISTER, DUCK YER HEAD!!
(Sound of bureaucrat’s clipboard whizzing by)
Hmm, you’re a little bit late on that one, Mister
Whooh, I bet that smarts!

Please Mr. Obama, I don’t wanna go
Listen, Mr. Obama, please don’t make me go
There’s a bureaucrat a’waitin’ out there, just fixin to decide my fate
A complainer I’ve been called cuz I don’t wanna wind up screamin’ or dead

I wonder what the Kenyan word for friend is
Let’s see-friend– kemo sabe, that’s it!
KEMO SABE!, HEY OUT THERE-KEMO SABE!
Nope, that itn’t it
Look at them durned control freak fascists
They’re runnin’ around like a bunch of wild Mengeles and Kevorkians-heh, heh, heh

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 3:13PM

Feral Cat. I have state employee health care. The other day I got Lyme disease. I called my doctor who said the next appointment I can get you is next tuesday. It was thursday. I was pissed because lyme disease needs to be taken care of quickly or else it can be a life long problem. So I called another doctor who said they aren't taking new patients. I decided to call one more doctor who said they were booked for 2 weeks. The recommended I go to the walk in clinic. My insurance covered almsot all of it so I said ok. I went down there and I had to wait 5 hours to see the doctor. So I have no idea what your crying about but unless you make an appointment your ass is going to be waiting in long lines.

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 3:15PM

And for the wisenheimers, state employee health care is for state employees. the best of the best you can get.

dulled| 8.5.09 @ 3:34PM

Hey blunted,

"According to New York Times reporter Matt Bai, CBPP (is one of Center on Budget and Policy Priorities) three left wing think tanks funded by the Democracy Alliance. The other two are the Center for American Progress and the Economic Policy Institute. According to Bai's account, representatives of CBPP and the other two Democracy Alliance-sponsored think tanks attended the May 2006 meeting of the Democracy Alliance at the Barton Creek Resort near Austin, Texas. Their role was to "talk about the agendas they were busy crafting that would catapult Democratic politics into the economic future." " wiki

Please stop giving us the talking points as they were emailed to you.

Sheesh, when The New York Times calls you a lefty...

Grzmlyk| 8.5.09 @ 3:34PM

Hey, Mike, I took my meds, but you haven't gone away. So. . . . .

And, I might add, those meds were developed by an evil pharmaceutical company seeking profit. Take the profit motive out of the health care industry and innovation decreases. That's why most innovation comes out of the US now. Newer procedures and technologies tend to cost more at first and would be among the first to be axed under a cost-cutting-obsessed bureaucrat.

Bob, I mostly agree with you, but of course there are many reasons manufacting is not competitive in this country - health care being only one. We are a consumer-based society for whom credit has become our oxygen - which is why we're not out of the rapids but instead headed for the falls.

And of course, with a plethora of doctors and other health care professionals, the health care industry also contributes to that GDP, it doesn't just take a bite. But GDP is highly distorted now in any case - it is not a truly accurate picture of the health of our economy. Sorry. It just isn't.

No, our health care "system" (which is not and should not be a system!) is not perfect by any stretch. But all but the most blinkered (er, Mike, that would be you) must know that a government-only solution is the death knell.

I've worked in the health care system. I've seen this stuff. If Medicare and Medicaid are any examples - and they are - government-run health care for all will indeed be shared misery for all.

Bob, you said at one point that portability of insurance across state lines was not the savings people said it would be. Can you tell me why?

Oh. And gosh, Mike, we are sure impressed by how much you care.

Tony in Central PA| 8.5.09 @ 3:36PM

Like I asked, blunted, who's going to take care of those 47 million ? That's assuming this number is truthful. I imagine if we could find a western European nation with a population of 47 million, we'd have some idea as to how much additional infrastructure and personnel we'll be needing. No ?

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 3:38PM

Dulled your probably correct about the CBPP but the numbers came from the Census Bureau. If you want to argue those numbers great. "Data released today by the Census Bureau show that the number of uninsured Americans stood at a record 46.6 million in 2005, with 15.9 percent of Americans lacking health coverage".

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 3:40PM

Grizzle. I agree with one of your points. So many pills are handed out like candy especially anti psychotic and depression drugs.

obtused| 8.5.09 @ 3:41PM

"My guess is somewhere in the 50 million range. "

Well of course it is.

http://ibdeditorials.com/CartoonPopUp.aspx?id=333232530356809

obtused| 8.5.09 @ 3:41PM

"My guess is somewhere in the 50 million range. "

Well of course it is.

http://ibdeditorials.com/CartoonPopUp.aspx?id=333232530356809

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 3:43PM

Tony, what do the 47 million do when they have no insurance. They still go to the doctor. Who pays for it? Maybe half pay the bill or don't go to the doctor but what about the other half? You and I pay for it. I'm going with half but I bet it is more. If you can't pay for insurance you probably can't pay for your medical bill.

Bob| 8.5.09 @ 3:44PM

Gill -- I estimate because you either have right wing or left wing organizations skew the numbers. The best non-partisan estimates are here:

http://www.nchc.org/facts/coverage.shtml

Clearly, 10 million is too low and 50 million is too high. Estimating half way between is the best I can do after actually studying the data. For the record, I don't believe that undocumented aliens should receive any health care -- even in emergency rooms. Furthermore, I don't think that children of non-citizens born here should get citizenship.

The example you gave is the primary reason people should be forced to buy health insurance just like they are forced to buy auto insurance.

Ryan, regarding malpractice, read the link I posted. The reason it is far less is that malpractice lawsuits and defensive medicine is high in a couple of specialties, but not in most specialties. Remember that health care also includes nursing, nursing homes, physical therapy, ear/nose/throat, etc. Health care also includes medicines. Think about it holistically.

As to being pro-life, I am strongly a social libertarian and believe strongly in individual choice. That is consistent with my belief that people should be personally responsible for their financial matters. The same is true for same sex marriage -- it doesn't affect my marriage so let them do what they want. If they want the joy of paying divorce lawyers, let them.

Yes, I will now hear from the religious zealots... So be it....

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 3:45PM

I got the number from googling "how many americans are uninsured and I found data from the census bureau. If you wanted to argue about the census bureaus number that is great.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/graemeing/2978599215/

FeralCat| 8.5.09 @ 3:46PM

Morons and psychopaths are now in charge of our country. What could go wrong?

stunted| 8.5.09 @ 3:47PM

Direct from the census report "Income, Poverty, and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2006."

The uninsured rate for the nativeborn
population increased between
2005 and 2006, from 12.8 percent to
13.2 percent, while the uninsured
rate for the foreign-born population
was statistically unchanged at 33.8
percent (Table 6). Among the foreignborn
population, the uninsured rate
for naturalized citizens was statistically
unchanged at 16.4 percent,
while the uninsured rate for noncitizens
increased from 43.1 percent to
45.0 percent.35 The proportion of the foreign-born population without
health insurance in 2006 was about
two and a half times that of the
native-born population in 2006

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 3:49PM

We might find Bin Laden. That would be a start. At least we are finally looking for him in the correct region. Feral.

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 3:52PM

Bob, the link you posted stated:

# Nearly 46 million Americans, or 18 percent of the population under the age of 65, were without health insurance in 2007, the latest government data available.1

I'm assuming 65 plus have medicare

Grzmlyk| 8.5.09 @ 3:53PM

Hey, Obtused:

EXCELLENT. God bless Michael Ramirez! He rocks.

Dulled| 8.5.09 @ 3:53PM

Hey kids! Let's insure the illegals... and then get them to the polls!

Let's see, how else can we buy votes? I got it! Let's buy POS hoopty's for $4500 a pop!

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 3:54PM

Dulled, haven't you heard. Illegals are leaving because the US is broke.

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 3:55PM

stunted has the same numbers.

Tony in Central PA| 8.5.09 @ 3:58PM

blunted, most of the time in a community hospital setting, the hospital " eats " the cost. This indirectly comes back to us in the cost of insurance and taxes. I have no reason to believe this this will made any more efficient by the inexorable establishment of a single government payer.
You still didn't answer my question, which relates to utilization. If you increase coverage, you'll increase utilization. That is, unless the government comes up with some Draconian standards about who is eligible for what. Who will provide this additional care and where will they provide it ?

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 3:59PM

From Bobs website,
"The impacts of going uninsured are clear and severe. Many uninsured individuals postpone needed medical care which results in increased mortality and billions of dollars lost in productivity and increased expenses to the health care system. There also exists a significant sense of vulnerability to the potential loss of health insurance which is shared by tens of millions of other Americans who have managed to retain coverage".

dulled| 8.5.09 @ 4:00PM

Your own words: "If you want to argue those numbers great. "Data released today by the Census Bureau show that the number of uninsured Americans stood at a record 46.6 million in 2005, with 15.9 percent of Americans lacking health coverage". "

So what years are we going to talk about? The years where the numbers went up demonstrably from the influx of hispanic illegals or right now, when we're getting b.s.'d by Kos kid gasbags like you and ObaMao's cabinet?

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 4:01PM

Tony, I say tax the rich. Here comes the tomatoes. Who else is going to pay for it? The uninsured?

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 4:05PM

dulled, 2005 and it was legal citizens. I'm guessing the numbers increased since then. Unemployment and companies going under and etc being the cause.

Allan| 8.5.09 @ 4:06PM

Bob,

I don't frequent right wing blogs so my facts have to dug up the old fashioned way.

The $100 billion figure is better than ball park.
Item - Average cost for defensive procedures due to EMTALA emergency room regs (thanks to the congress ) - $1,200 per patient.
Item - Cost of malpractice insurance for a neurosurgeon in a state with malpractice caps - $50,000; without caps - $225,000.
Item - growth in c sections due to John Edwards trial lawyer buddies and the cerebral palsy myth - from less than 10% to nearly 40%. Decrease in cerebral palsy in live births - zero.
And the list and cost go on and on. $100 billion is a good hard number.
The uninsured number is currently pegged at 47 million. Of those, 10 million are illegal aliens. Covering them helps California and Arizona's budget problem at our expense instead of theirs. Approximately 17 million have incomes of $50,000 or more according to the census bureau and can afford insurance but choose to spend their money on more pleasurable indulgences. Of the 20 million left, 10 million are eligible for medicaid or other programs and simply have not applied.
Result - 10 million chronically unisured. This is the problem that should be dealt with.
Blunted - sorry to hear about your grandfather. Stomach or pancreatic cancer is very aggressive and usually presents itself too late for any meaningful treatment. Chemo is a long shot as is doing nothing. Sometimes nothing is best.
My condolences on having state health care. Typically, reimbursement rates for state plans are worse than medicare and only slightly better than medicaid. Small wonder doctors aren't eager to see you.
How hard will finding a doctor be when everyone is government insured and clamoring for their right to be cared for?

stoned| 8.5.09 @ 4:07PM

Here's another quote from your favorite report:

"Economic Status
The likelihood of being covered by
health insurance rises with income. In
2006, 75.1 percent of people in
households with annual incomes of
less than $25,000 had health insurance
coverage. Health insurance coverage
rates increased with increasing
consecutive household income
groups to 91.5 percent for those in
households with incomes of $75,000
or more (Table 6)."

So how about some Cap and Trade, or better yet let's tax the evil rich whose investments actually create jobs. Anything we can do to the blunt the economy until we get pogro- whoops- programs passed.

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 4:09PM

YOu can't tax via a percentage. You can't tax the poor. Maybe the middle class and rich should share the burden with a substantial amount coming from the top 10 percent of income earners. Many say it will hurt the trickle down effect but that's hogwash. Nothing is trickling down. Top 10 percent get huge tax breaks anyway.

jacksmith| 8.5.09 @ 4:09PM

LEAD, FOLLOW, OR GET OUT OF THE WAY. (Thomas Paine)

We have the 37th worst quality of healthcare in the developed world. Conservative estimates are that over 120,000 of you dies each year in America from treatable illness that people in other developed countries don't die from. Rich, middle class, and poor a like. Insured and uninsured. Men, women, children, and babies. This is what being 37th in quality of healthcare means.

I know that many of you are angry and frustrated that REPUBLICANS! In congress are dragging their feet and trying to block TRUE healthcare reform. What republicans want is just a taxpayer bailout of the DISGRACEFUL GREED DRIVEN PRIVATE FOR PROFIT health insurance industry, and the DISGRACEFUL GREED DRIVEN PRIVATE FOR PROFIT healthcare industry. A trillion dollar taxpayer funded private health insurance bailout is all you really get without a robust government-run public option available on day one. Co-OP's ARE NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR A GOVERNMENT-RUN PUBLIC OPTION. They are a fraud being pushed by the GREED DRIVEN PRIVATE FOR PROFIT health insurance industry that is KILLING YOU!

YOU CANT HAVE AN INSURANCE MANDATE WITHOUT A ROBUST PUBLIC OPTION. MANDATING PRIVATE FOR PROFIT HEALTH INSURANCE AS YOUR ONLY CHOICE WOULD BE A DISASTER AND UNETHICAL, CORRUPT, AND MORALLY REPUGNANT. AND PROBABLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL AS WELL.

These industries have been slaughtering you and your loved ones like cattle for decades for profit. Including members of congress and their families. These REPUBLICANS are FOOLS!

Republicans and their traitorous allies have been trying to make it look like it's President Obama's fault for the delays, and foot dragging. But I think you all know better than that. President Obama inherited one of the worst government catastrophes in American history from these REPUBLICANS! And President Obama has done a brilliant job of turning things around, and working his heart out for all of us.

But Republicans think you are just a bunch of stupid, idiot, cash cows with short memories. Just like they did under the Bush administration when they helped Bush and Cheney rape America and the rest of the World.

But you don't have to put up with that. And this is what you can do. The Republicans below will be up for reelection on November 2, 2010. Just a little over 13 months from now. And many of you will be able to vote early. So pick some names and tell their voters that their representatives (by name) are obstructing TRUE healthcare reform. And are sellouts to the insurance and medical lobbyist.

Ask them to contact their representatives and tell them that they are going to work to throw them out of office on November 2, 2010, if not before by impeachment, or recall elections. Doing this will give you something more to do to make things better in America. And it will make you feel better too.

There are many resources on the internet that can help you find people to call and contact. For example, many social networking sites can be searched by state, city, or University. Be inventive and creative. I can think of many ways to do this. But be nice. These are your neighbors. And most will want to help.

I know there are a few democrats that have been trying to obstruct TRUE healthcare reform too. But the main problem is the Bush Republicans. Removing them is the best thing tactically to do. On the other hand. If you can easily replace a democrat obstructionist with a supportive democrat, DO IT!

You have been AMAZING!!! my people. Don't loose heart. You knew it wasn't going to be easy saving the World. :-)

God Bless You

jacksmith — Working Class

I REST MY CASE (http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/25/why-markets-cant-cure-healthcare/)

Republican Senators up for re-election in 2010.

* Richard Shelby of Alabama
* Lisa Murkowski of Alaska
* John McCain of Arizona
* Mel Martinez of Florida
* Johnny Isakson of Georgia
* Mike Crapo of Idaho
* Chuck Grassley of Iowa
* Sam Brownback of Kansas
* Jim Bunning of Kentucky
* David Vitter of Louisiana
* Kit Bond of Missouri
* Judd Gregg of New Hampshire
* Richard Burr of North Carolina
* George Voinovich of Ohio
* Tom Coburn of Oklahoma
* Jim DeMint of South Carolina
* John Thune of South Dakota
* Kay Bailey Hutchison of Texas
* Bob Bennett of Utah

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 4:12PM

I'm not saying rich are evil. I encourage all of you to go out and get rich. I'm not poor by any means and pay my taxes. I finally get tax breaks being a homeowner. I'm willing to chip in.

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 4:14PM

I'm also saying that we do have an unhealthy population. There's a lot of lard asses, alcoholics, and smokers. So ultimately we need to cut down on consumption as a country. More tomatoes coming. Land of the Free baby. I guess you can't please everyone.

Grzmlyk| 8.5.09 @ 4:16PM

Allan, don't you know Bob's word is GOLD? If he says it, it is so. No need to conduct any research beyond His Word.

I agree completely with what you say. I used to work at NY Hospital. Defensive medicine is not confined to a few specialties, although it is certainly most egregiously ruinous of the OB/GYN profession, with which I was associated.

You say you don't frequent right-wing sites - but it'd be nice if you hung around here a bit more often.

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 4:17PM

grizzle you were a male gyno. You sick bastard.

dulled| 8.5.09 @ 4:17PM

From your favorite report again, blunted:

HEALTH INSURANCE
COVERAGE IN THE
UNITED STATES
Highlights
• Both the percentage and the
number of people without health
insurance increased in 2006. The
percentage without health insurance
increased from 15.3 percent
in 2005 to 15.8 percent in 2006,
and the number of uninsured
increased from 44.8 million to
47.0 million. 30, 31
• The number of people with health
insurance increased to 249.8 million
in 2006 (up from 249.0 million
in 2005). In 2006, the number of
people covered by private health
insurance (201.7 million) and the
number of people covered by government
health insurance (80.3 million)
were not statistically different
from 2005.
• The percentage of people covered
by employment-based health insurance
decreased to 59.7 percent in
2006, from 60.2 percent in 2005.
• The percentage of people covered
by government health programs
decreased to 27.0 percent in 2006, from 27.3 percent in 2005. The
percentage and the number of people
covered by Medicaid were statistically
unchanged at 12.9 percent
and 38.3 million, respectively,
in 2006.
• The percentage and the number of
children under 18 years old without
health insurance increased to 11.7
percent and 8.7 million in 2006
(from 10.9 percent and 8.0 million,
respectively, in 2005) (Table 6). With
an uninsured rate in 2006 at 19.3
percent, children in poverty were
more likely to be uninsured than all
children.32
• The uninsured rate and the number
of uninsured in 2006 were not
statistically different from 2005
for non-Hispanic Whites (at 10.8 percent and 21.2 million). The
percentage and the number of
uninsured Blacks increased (from
19.0 percent and 7.0 million in
2005) to 20.5 percent and 7.6 million
in 2006 (Table 6).
• The percentage and the number
of uninsured Hispanics increased
to 34.1 percent and 15.3 million in 2006.

You know what's alarming about these numbers? It's that they're not alarming. At all.

Why so socialist?

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 4:20PM

Dulled,

What is your point?

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 4:27PM

ARe you saying a 3 million person without insurance increase is why we don't need health care reform?

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 4:38PM

Where did everyone go? Is it Limbaugh hour?

Tony in Central PA| 8.5.09 @ 4:38PM

blunted, I'm not sure how " taxing the rich " is going to generate the missing health care workers we'll need for this plan. I realize, the answer is the default answer for most liberals.
This is an aside, but has it occurred to you that if you keep taxing people, they are no longer rich ? I guess that means you tax the poor. An interesting case in point is the state of Maryland. Last year their gov instituted a scheme to significantly raise taxes on the wealthiest with the expectation that it would swell the state coffers. It didn't happen. Not only that, the state lost a significant chunk of tax revenue over the prior year. This illustrates a limitation of liberal thinking. There is the stubborn belief that actions can exist without consequences. The idea here is that no matter how much you tax people it will have no effect on their behavior, earnings or the overall economy.

Allan| 8.5.09 @ 4:39PM

Wow. Jacksmith is certainly angry today ... and wrong.

From the WHO web site: "The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems was last produced in 2000, and the WHO no longer produces such a ranking table, because of the complexity of the task. "

Jacksmith, what they mean by complexity of the task is if you look at the 36 countries that WHO says rank above us, they are mono-ethnic societies, not a culturally diverse nation such as ours.
Plus, this is a measure of death and longevity, not actual healthcare delivered and resulting outcomes.
The US ranks first in survival of cancer and a host of other diseases. This is by far the best country to get sick in in the world.
But it is also one of the best places to die in a car crash or be gunned down, stats that skew the WHO rankings which is probably why they folded the con.
Republicans are not blocking health care reform as last time I counted the Dems had 60 senators and an unbeatable majority in the house.
The failure of this measure will be a Democratic one.

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 4:41PM

I don't think we need more health care workers. Like I said we still care for the uninsured. Tell me this Tony? How many billions of dollars of tax breaks do the rich get already? I know a few that claim they don't even pay taxes after it is all said and done.

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 4:43PM

YOur Maryland experemint reminds me of the Zurich experiment. You have to have uniformity or else people will just up and leave or flock as in the case of the Zurich experiment.

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 4:47PM

Allan is correct about republicans not blocking it. Obama has said that he would like a bill that is acceptable for both parties. If not, he is confident it will fly with just democratic approval.

Der Fat Guy| 8.5.09 @ 4:52PM

Melvin, you raise some good points. I would offer a couple of points in addition. You mentioned homosexuals with AIDS. If you review the life expectancy data, you discover that a male who is exclusively homosexual has a life expectancy considerably worse than a pack a day smoker. Q: when the rationing begins, do homosexual men come after smokers? What about homosexual smokers? A side note about the money sent to Africa. Mostly, there is no AIDS epidemic in Africa. In fact, in 1985 the WHO changed the rules for "diagnosing" AIDS to no longer include a blood test-- the only real way to diagnose it-- and rely instead on symptoms of concomitant diseases. AIDS has the same symptom profile as the dirty water fevers that are Africa's biggest killers. Since there's no money from international saps for stamping out blackwater fever, but there is for buying condoms.... voila! Suddenly, we have an AIDS epidemic...

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 4:58PM

Where does a fat guy with cholesterol levels through the roof fit in? Should we make them run on a treadmill and limit them to 2k calories a day. Pretty sure gay guys have a higher life expectancy.

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 5:07PM

Hey Tony,

On a side note, I like this idea:

A one-night stay? Ninety dollars. Need to see a doctor? Ten bucks. Want toilet paper? Pay for it yourself.

In the ever-widening search for extra income during desperate economic times, states across the nation are embracing a new idea: making inmates pay their debt to society not only in hard time, but also in cold, hard cash.

In New York, GOP Assemblyman James Tedisco introduced a bill that would charge wealthy criminals $90 a day for room and board at state prisons.

Dubbed the "Madoff Bill," after billion-dollar Ponzi schemer Bernard Madoff, the legislation is designed to ease the $1 billion annual cost of incarcerating prisoners.

Tony in Central PA| 8.5.09 @ 5:11PM

blunted, its nice you are confident we don't need any more providers to take care of 47 million additional users ? I'm not sure what you do for a living, but I'm willing to bet my taxes it has nothing to do with health care.

As far as tax cheats, maybe you can tell me how a guy who doesn't pay his taxes ends up getting the Treasury Secretary job when most of us would have been in some kind of trouble with the law ?

dulled| 8.5.09 @ 5:15PM

blunted,

"How many billions of dollars of tax breaks do the rich get already? I know a few that claim they don't even pay taxes after it is all said and done."

Oh, puh-leeze. Really. They're. Not. Paying. Their. Fair. Share?? Are you this much of a resentful, petulant little pothead beta male weenie? Sounds like your life expectancy is all about expecting a sugar daddy.

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 5:18PM

47 million uninsured. They still go to the doctor. Yes probably a little bit more with health insurance. Hey, god knows we can use more jobs in this country. I can't answer the treasury secretary question although most people don't get locked up for not paying their taxes. .They get garnished wages. Not Obama's finest moment And no I don't work in health care.

dulled| 8.5.09 @ 5:21PM

Oh, wait. I forgot; you already acknowledged being a state worker... who complains about his benefits.

Let me guess. Do you work behind the counter at the DMV?

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 5:23PM

I'm not resentful dulled. Honestly at the end of the year I got a 6k check. I'm getting another 8k for being a first time buyer. Those are the benefits I get now. Prior to this year, I had to pay taxes because I had no write offs. Ummm Sugar Daddy. Chocalate and Caramel.

dulled | 8.5.09 @ 5:24PM

And can we all stop with the 47 million number? I. Don't. Owe. You. Health. Insurance. And I sure as hell don't owe it to illegal immigrants who make up at least 12 million of that 47 million.

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 5:25PM

Nah dude but that would be a cool job. Sit on my ass and say next please. Call security when someone gets an attitude. I work for the University as a research assistant.

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 5:26PM

Go get a gun and be a Minuteman if your such a baby about immigrants. They are looking for a few good yokels.

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 5:28PM

Survey research. Even you could do it dulled. It's easy as fishing.

dulled| 8.5.09 @ 5:32PM

Bwahh-hahh-haha-ha. Sniff. Wipe tear. Oh, God, it just keeps getting better. A two-vehicle-owning, state university employee -who clearly told a whopper about his health care treatment in an earlier post- twenty-something pit-bull owner lecturing us on the world ought to be.

Hah! Please tell me you're also a grad student.

dulled| 8.5.09 @ 5:35PM

No equivalency, please. I'm fine with immigrants; legal immigrants.

And you actually already pay me to carry a gun.

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 5:37PM

Are you lauging or crying? Anyway, my wife and I have two vehicles that we co-own if it makes you feel less of a man. The Lyme disease was true and I have 3 dogs including a pit bull. Not a grad student. Pretty sure you still live at home with your mom and fat dad complaining about libs taking over the world.

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 5:39PM

I have a Bachelors degree in Criminal Justice and the thought of you carrying a gun around scares me. I'll make sure to lock and load the glock.

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 5:42PM

Later Tony, dulled. It's been fun. Tell your ladies to stay away from male gyno's like grizzle.

dulled| 8.5.09 @ 5:43PM

A little of both. You've been posting since the early a.m... your wife, employer, and the taxpayers must really be satisfied with your performance.

But hey, you've absolutely RULED here.

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 5:45PM

It's my day off and it's raining. What's your excuse?

Anyway, keep it real dulled. Later Tony.

Jayrad| 8.5.09 @ 5:52PM

Bob,
You mentioned in a previous post about a consumption tax in place of the current system. I assume you were talking about the FairTax.

ABSOLUTELY! One of the reasons that our healthcare "crisis" has come to the forefront of public discussion is the rising unemployment numbers. If we repealed the 16th amendment and put the FairTax into action, jobs would come POURING into the national economy.

More jobs, more competitive wages across the board, less power for the greedy bureaucratic class we have put on a pedestal for way too long, and last, but not least, there could ostensibly be an addition to the "prebate" check that every family get each month to help them pay for health care.

Hell, take some of their prebate money and directly deposit it into a PRIVATE SECTOR HSA! That sounds a hell of a lot better than any kind of single-payer, public option, whatever ya wanna call it plan.

I personally have an HSA, albeit through an employer, and I love it! I just wish I didn't have to pay so much money to the federal government each paycheck so they could spend it on the ridiculous pork projects. That way, I could increase how much money I put into my HSA each paycheck.

ben| 8.5.09 @ 7:00PM

"Vague promises of savings from cutting waste, enhancing prevention and wellness, installing electronic medical records and improving quality are merely 'lipstick' cost control, more for show and public relations than for true change."
Dr. Ezekiel Emanual - Health Policy Advisor at the Office of Management and Budget: Federal Council on Comparative Effectiveness Research: Brother of Rham. (Health Affairs Feb. 27, 2008).

Jack| 8.5.09 @ 7:01PM

Americans are no more than insured animals, treatment is based on what kind of policy, and level of coverage, rich or poor.

ben| 8.5.09 @ 7:05PM

If cigarettes are as highly addictive as they say, and we all know they cause cancer, and second-hand smoke gives nonsmokers enough of these carcinogens to cause cancer and death, how come nobody's addicted to second hand smoke?
Now they've discovered third-hand smoke too.

ben| 8.5.09 @ 7:10PM

Mike| 8.5.09 @ 9:29AM
The Lewin Group is owned by Ingenix which is owned by United Healthcare. Cited by the GOP and the right wing as "independent," it is anything but.
Mike| 8.5.09 @ 1:08PM
Give me the sources of your information. If its the Lewin Group or Ferrara's sham institute, I'm not buying it.
--------------------------
Discrediting a source because it's "right wing" doesn't make an argument. You are instead implying that because the source is "right wing" there is a motive for bias, therefore bias is proven. Do you aplly this illogic to your "left wing" sources as well, since they have the same perceived motive for bias?

ben| 8.5.09 @ 7:18PM

if this health control scam is really about providing the best health care to the people, and our elected leaders continue to claim they have the best health care because of the choices offerd, why did the ways and means committee vote down the republican amendment to open congress' health care plan to the public? Why aren't they offering us the same choices in coverage?
If this program is going to be so good for us, why did Waxman deny a vote on the republican amendment to put congress on this public option?
If this gov't option is going to work so well and drive down costs, and is better than what we currently have, why did the ways and means committe vote down the republican amendment to force the gov't to play by the same rules as the private insurers? If the gov't option is so much better it would win on an even playing field right?

ben| 8.5.09 @ 7:39PM

if it's shared responsibility you want, would it work better if everyone shared in it? Why then are Unions and the dems favorite contributers exempt?
When gov't has an interest in your health care costs, they also have an interest in the lifestyle choice you make that influence those costs. and since the gov't money is our money then we each have an interest in each other's lifestyle choice that influence those costs.
-----------------
blunted| 8.5.09 @ 2:36PM
Any person that smokes around children in the home are despicable. Get your lard ass off the couch and go outside. Kill yourself but don't kill your child, spouse, or animal.

blunted| 8.5.09 @ 2:31PM
Approximately 50-75 percent of children in the United States have detectable levels of cotinine, the breakdown product of nicotine in the blood.
-------------------------
Nicotine does NOT cause cancer. The cancer caused by smoking comes from the hundreds of other chemicals in the paper, filter and tobacco mix.

ben| 8.5.09 @ 7:41PM

If everything that is wrong with the world becomes a reason to turn more power over to some political savior, then freedom is going to erode away. - Thomas Sowell

Mike| 8.5.09 @ 7:49PM

Ben,
The Washington Post (July 29, 2009). You can find it easily be Googling.
Do I apply the same standard to left wing sources? Of course.

Up yours Obama| 8.5.09 @ 7:58PM

57 States Doorgunner ????? last I knew there were 50 ! Must be State of Liberal Smucks, State of Obama Haters, State of Up yours Illegal dirtbag !,

JimE| 8.5.09 @ 8:13PM

Blunted, I assume your name has something to do with your brain power.

defeated pigs| 8.5.09 @ 9:16PM

WASHINGTON – Senators have reached a deal on saving the dwindling "cash for clunkers" program, agreeing to vote Thursday on adding $2 billion to the popular rebate plan.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid announced the vote after lengthy negotiations between Democratic and Republican lawmakers on Wednesday. Reid has said Democrats have enough votes to pass the bill, meaning consumers could take advantage of the rebates of up to $4,500 until Labor Day.

defeated pigs| 8.5.09 @ 9:18PM

BURBANK, Calif. – Two American journalists held captive in North Korea since March endured meals of rice with rocks, more than four months of isolation and the constant fear they would be sent to a gulag.

Facing sentences of 12 years hard labor, they were allowed only sporadic contact with each other, let alone the outside world. Then, suddenly this week, they were brought into a meeting with none other than Bill Clinton, who helped win their release and flew home with them for a tearful reunion with their families.

katablog.com| 8.5.09 @ 9:23PM

Anyone who believes that the US Government can create 31 new government agencies and SAVE money needs to really examine what they are drinking and smoking. It can't and won't happen. Paid for health care is a choice, not a right. Surely those that think it's a right to have "free" health care will now agree to pay for my pursuit of happiness - the constitution actually addresses my right to the pursuit of happiness but doesn't address your "right" for health care.

Now let's look at history for a moment. Let's look at who proposes to handle Obama health control:

This is the government that gets about $0.35 of every welfare dollar to the actual recipients!

This is the same government that creates deficit spending each and every year!

This is the government that thinks nothing of adding $120 million to a line item so they can have Government planes for cushy travel while the rest of America is bankrupt and standing in unemployment lines.

This is the same government that "misread" the economy, promising to keep unemployment below 9% by spending $787 Billion;

the same government that ran through $1 billion in 6 days in the "cash for clunkers" program that was suppose to last 3 months.

This is the same government that can't get a handle on the fraud in the medicare and medicaid programs.

Who are you going to believe folks? Your lying ears when you actually hear Barack Hussein Obama say he wants a single payer system, your lying eyes that shows in the House bill that everyone will end up being forced into the "public option" and not allowed to purchase an independent health care policy, the lying CBO who tells you that this health care control plan will run deficits - OR your government representative who lies on a regular basis?

katablog.com| 8.5.09 @ 9:24PM

Anyone who believes that the US Government can create 31 new government agencies and SAVE money needs to really examine what they are drinking and smoking. It can't and won't happen. Paid for health care is a choice, not a right. Surely those that think it's a right to have "free" health care will now agree to pay for my pursuit of happiness - the constitution actually addresses my right to the pursuit of happiness but doesn't address your "right" for health care.

Now let's look at history for a moment. Let's look at who proposes to handle Obama health control:

This is the government that gets about $0.35 of every welfare dollar to the actual recipients!

This is the same government that creates deficit spending each and every year!

This is the government that thinks nothing of adding $120 million to a line item so they can have Government planes for cushy travel while the rest of America is bankrupt and standing in unemployment lines.

This is the same government that "misread" the economy, promising to keep unemployment below 9% by spending $787 Billion;

the same government that ran through $1 billion in 6 days in the "cash for clunkers" program that was suppose to last 3 months.

This is the same government that can't get a handle on the fraud in the medicare and medicaid programs.

Who are you going to believe folks? Your lying ears when you actually hear Barack Hussein Obama say he wants a single payer system, your lying eyes that shows in the House bill that everyone will end up being forced into the "public option" and not allowed to purchase an independent health care policy, the lying CBO who tells you that this health care control plan will run deficits - OR your government representative who lies on a regular basis?

Michel Tomlinson| 8.5.09 @ 9:28PM

Obama is an American citizen. The question is why does he refuse to release his long form birth certificate (that Democrats in Hawaii say validates his birth in that state). It is true he went to Occidental and Harvard, but he still refuses to release his grades as George W. Bush did. What has he got to hide? Surely, he didn't have to read children's books in law school like Sotomayor to improve his English so what is he hiding? Did he barely scrape by and the reports of his stellar grades add up to campaign rhetoric and another Obama lie? The man who promised transparency is turning out to be more paranoid and secretive than Richard Nixon or Bill Clinton.

Anyone who believes the VA health care system is the best in the country has never been a part of the system. As for health care for military personnel if Obama and Democrats had had their way Reservists and Guard members wounded in war against Muslim extremists would have been paying a large junk of their own bills.

Good news "A new Quinnipiac University poll finds that by a 72 to 21 percent margin, Americans do not believe the president will keep his promise to enact healthcare reform without adding to the federal budget deficit." The country is waking up to the fact that the man in the White House has a problem with honesty.

defeated pigs| 8.5.09 @ 9:29PM

WASHINGTON – Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor won more GOP support in her drive toward near-certain Senate confirmation Thursday as the first Hispanic justice, even as a growing chorus of Republicans called her unfit for the bench.

Republican Sens. Kit Bond of Missouri and Judd Gregg of New Hampshire broke with their party to announce they'd support President Barack Obama's nominee, as the Senate cleared the way for a history-making vote that will shape the court for decades to come and could carry heavy political consequences for both parties.

defeated pigs| 8.5.09 @ 9:31PM

WAKARUSA, Ind. – President Barack Obama said Wednesday he's determined to get an overhaul of the health care system before the end of the year and, if necessary, without bipartisan support.

defeated pigs| 8.5.09 @ 9:33PM

But what many conservatives don’t understand is that, as nonproliferation expert and Ploughshares Fund president Joe Cirincione noted yesterday, Clinton was “the right man at the right moment.” And the BBC’s John Sudworth noted that now was the time to get the deal done:

And not least, there’s always the fear that North Korea could, by holding on to these two journalists, continue to use them as leverage. So I think in Washington’s wider — and perhaps colder — political interests, it makes good sense to try to clear this up now.

“I am very happy that after this long ordeal, Laura Ling and Euna Lee are now home and reunited with their loved ones,” President Clinton said in a statement. “When their families, Vice President Gore and the White House asked that I undertake this humanitarian mission, I agreed. I share a deep sense of relief with Laura and Euna and their families that they are safely home.”

defeated pigs| 8.5.09 @ 9:35PM

HONOLULU — The state’s Department of Health director on Friday released a statement verifying the legitimacy of Sen. Barack Obama birth certificate.

The state has received multiple requests for a copy of Obama’s birth certificate. State law does not allow officials to release the birth certificate of a person to someone outside of the family. ...

“There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record,” DOH Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said.

“Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures. No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawai‘i,” Fukino said.

defeated pigs| 8.5.09 @ 9:36PM

PRINCETON, NJ -- As U.S. House leaders unveil a plan to reform the U.S. healthcare system, a USA Today/Gallup poll finds 56% of Americans in favor and 33% opposed to Congress' passing major healthcare reform legislation this year. Support for healthcare reform before the end of the year is sharply split along party lines, with 79% of Democrats in favor, compared with only 23% of Republicans.

defeated pigs| 8.5.09 @ 9:39PM

As the debate over healthcare reform in Congress continues, a new Time Magazine Poll finds that most Americans (55%) support a major reform of the healthcare system over making just minor adjustments (43%).

The poll does find a sharp partisan divide. While seven in ten (70%) Democrats support major reform, just one third (33%) of Republicans agree that major reform is necessary. Independents however are more divided -- a slim majority (53%) support major reform, while 43% favor making just minor adjustments.

defeated pigs| 8.5.09 @ 9:42PM

Sixty-two percent in this new ABC News/Washington Post poll, for example, support creating a government-funded entity to offer health insurance to those who don't get it elsewhere, a cornerstone of the plans now under discussion.

defeated pigs| 8.5.09 @ 9:50PM

A new USA Today/Gallup poll finds wide public support for overhauling health care this year. There is, however, concern about its high costs and the implications for the country.

The study says that 56 percent favor a bill, 33 percent oppose it, and 12 percent do not feel strongly either way. Just over half say controlling costs should be its priority, and most of the rest say it should focus on expanding coverage.

To finance the bill, 61 percent believe employers who do not provide insurance should pay a fee. Fifty-eight percent say the wealthy should pay higher taxes to help fund it.

a pig in mud, eating a troll| 8.5.09 @ 9:55PM

1) Cash for clunkers? Succeeding at being wrong isn't a victory. It's the same with you idiots and hybrid cars: the 'carbon footprint' they create during construction is greater than that of a V8 pick-up truck over it's entire life. With cash for votes -I mean clunkers- it's scrapping usable vehicles to create more "footprints" for new, and not necessarily more efficient cars. And by a 4 to 1 margin, thoese new cars are foreign.

2) Who cares about dumbass journalists who travel to N. Korea. Use them as leverage; for what, a stale donut and a weak cup of coffee? And sending the Sec'y of State's husband? Oh, yeah, we look really on our game there, Corky.

3) Presidents get to pick SCOTUS nominees; they generally get confirmed. They don't always behave in a predictable fashion. Oh, well. Yawn.

4) Your whistling past the graveyard with your healthcare reform prediction. Are we even halfway through the break?

5) As for your polls, wanting reform and wanting what's being proposed are two different things, Jeremiah Troll.

defeated pigs| 8.5.09 @ 10:02PM

NEW YORK – The American Psychological Association declared Wednesday that mental health professionals should not tell gay clients they can become straight through therapy or other treatments.

Instead, the APA urged therapists to consider multiple options — that could range from celibacy to switching churches — for helping clients whose sexual orientation and religious faith conflict.

defeated pigs| 8.5.09 @ 10:03PM

HOUSTON – The Charles Manson follower convicted of attempting to assassinate President Gerald Ford is set to be released from a federal prison in Texas later this month after serving more than 30 years behind bars.

Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme was a 26-year-old disciple of the cult murderer Manson when she aimed a semiautomatic .45- caliber pistol at Ford in September 1975 in Sacramento, Calif. Secret Service agents grabbed her and Ford was unhurt.

a pig eating crackers| 8.5.09 @ 10:04PM

And you're telling us about your therapy regimen... why?

defeated pigs| 8.5.09 @ 10:04PM

WAKARUSA, Ind. – Promising new jobs and money, President Barack Obama on Wednesday told a hurting Midwestern region that its recovery will be like America's: tough but certain.

Obama's second visit as president to a northern Indiana area mired in unemployment reflected political reality. People appreciate hope and the presence of the president, but they want jobs. So Obama came bearing all of those in what amounted to a national economic pep talk.

"Even in the hardest times, against the toughest odds, we have never surrendered," Obama told a crowd on the steamy factory floor of Monaco RV, whose previous owner went bankrupt. "We don't give up. We don't surrender our fates to chance. We have always endured."

a pig clinging to his beer| 8.5.09 @ 10:05PM

Squeaky Fromme is out becaause ObamMao wants to name her Mental Health Czar.

defeated pigs| 8.5.09 @ 10:06PM

"I do think there's a big concern in America," Specter said in an interview Monday. "We heard it yesterday about the growing deficit and national debt."

Specter is a recent Republican-turned-Democrat who indicated earlier this year that he's open to a government health insurance plan that would compete with private insurers, an idea backed by Obama and many Democrats.

a contented pig| 8.5.09 @ 10:07PM

Because Cap and Trade is going to be wonderful for the RV industry!

buhdda pig| 8.5.09 @ 10:08PM

Arlen who? God hisself couldn't get that clown reelected at this point.

defeated pigs squealing | 8.5.09 @ 10:08PM

Four of five congressional committees have approved versions of health care bills,

barbecue pig| 8.5.09 @ 10:10PM

Our sophisticated new software has tracked you down, defeated:

http://southparkstudios.com/clips/152048

adios, fatboy

jealous defeated pigs| 8.5.09 @ 10:11PM

144.

IQ? Nope, President Obama's latest bowling score, says Robert Gibbs.

You'll remember, the President tossed a miserable 37, or something like that, back in the Pennsylvania Democratic primary, causing no end of grief and mockery. (And then there was that more recent gaffe comparing himself to a Special Olympian.)

But Gibbs just told the press that Obama celebrated his birthday (it's Tuesday) at Camp David over the weekend in part by playing a little basketball and, yes, bowling. He threw three strikes and a 9 on his last four tries, Gibbs said.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2009/08/04/2009-08-04_president_barack_obamas_birthday_present_to_himself_celebrates_48th_by_bowling_1.html#ixzz0NMgOUuFf

defeated coligreen pig| 8.5.09 @ 10:20PM

I found your myspace page with my trojan horse software:

http://www.myspace.com/coligreens

retreating defeated pig| 8.5.09 @ 10:22PM

Never thought I would hear a redneck saying adios.

JerseyJ| 8.5.09 @ 10:23PM

I think Pecos is on to something ... "Seems like the White House wants us to report on our fellow citizens, so fill up their inbox."

Send them links to their own talking points ... over and over and over and over. All of them are fishy anyway, so you'd be doing your civic duty.

joyous pig| 8.5.09 @ 10:27PM

Now here's some news you can use, defeated. Michelle Malkin's book, Culture of Corruption, is number 1... on THE NEW YORK TIMES BESTSELLER LIST.

Have you got a poll for that, amigo?

dumb defeated pigs| 8.5.09 @ 10:27PM

I tried the email address and it is invalid.

dancing pig| 8.5.09 @ 10:29PM

...this little piggy says "That's a brick house there, biaatch!"

defeated pigs are horny| 8.5.09 @ 10:29PM

no gringo. I would hit that though.

astroturf pig| 8.5.09 @ 10:30PM

Of course I'm being paid to do this.

defeated pigs masturbating| 8.5.09 @ 10:31PM

Better than Anne Coulter

myspace pig| 8.5.09 @ 10:35PM

That was some seriously funny ....

But not as funny as Comrade Urkel bowling. Do you think he imagines he walking a mile in a white man's shoes when he bowls?

And yeah, feel free to call me a racist, cabron. We're pretty much inured.

defeated pig mingling | 8.5.09 @ 10:37PM

I thought the same thing. It looks almost fake. Like they photo shopped his head on a midget. I'm assuming your link was to Carmen?

Mighty Mighty Pig| 8.5.09 @ 10:39PM

Cartman joining NAMBLA on the internet.

defeated pig w/ sense of humor| 8.5.09 @ 10:41PM

Cartman duh. NAMBLA. Did that guy get locked up? Freaking weirdo.

puerco dormiendo| 8.5.09 @ 10:42PM

OINK oink oin... SNORE

vence puerco cansado | 8.5.09 @ 10:46PM

My daily news is about to come on. Yes, the Daily Show followed by the Colbert report. Adios muchacho. Hasta luego

Gill O’Teen ✝✡| 8.5.09 @ 11:06PM

At 2:33 PM, I posted a comment asking for proof that our health care system is not the best in the world. As I type this, after scrolling through more garbage than a city dump rat looking for a snack, I failed to find a reply to my challenge. If one is there, I’m sorry I missed it, but I do have poor eyesight, and if it’s there, I simply overlooked that needle in the manure pile. Now, since all you lefty loons think you are so clever, why was my simple challenge so difficult? Surely a silly old man like myself does not have the mental acuity to match wits with such geniuses as you think you are. So where is my answer? As of 10:46 PM none of you sycophantic remoras have countered my assertion. Quite honestly, I found that most of the comments posted on this thread are ignorant. Time’s up! You had over 8 hours to refute my claim. You failed. Good night.

defeated old pig| 8.5.09 @ 11:51PM

Damn it. I missed it old timer. Colbert was making me laugh. According to the World Health Organization we have the 37th best. France is number 1. Damn freedom fries. Even Malta kicked our ass:

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

Trotters - defeeted pigs| 8.6.09 @ 1:47AM

THE SECURITY YOU GET from health insurance reform:

It won't hurt after you've been euthanized.

brutus6| 8.6.09 @ 1:47AM

"Blunted"..
scan, scan, scan...
"Bob"..
scan, scan, scan..
"Mike"..
scan, scan, scan...
"defeated pigs"..
scan, scan, scan...

brutus6| 8.6.09 @ 1:50AM

Excuse me, make that "scroll, scroll, scroll..."

GG| 8.6.09 @ 3:51AM

2009年度室內設計公司被評為台南室內設計最佳的室內設計公司之一,在台南室內設計界有這很高的聲譽.
天花板是室內裝潢的重要組成部分，室內設計課程也是室內空間裝潢中最富有變化，引人注目的介面，高雄室內設計其透視感較強，通過不同的處理，配以燈具造型能增強空間感染力，室內設計平面圖使天花板造型豐富多彩，新穎美觀。
台南室內設計

1. 設計原則。
（1）、要注重整體環境效果。
天花板、牆面、地面共同組成室內空間，室內設計師共同創造室內環境效果，設計中要注意三者的協調統一，台中室內設計

Albert Frevele| 8.6.09 @ 6:43AM

I see a lot of discussion on the details of the Obama Socialized Health Care proposal, but I think we are all missing the core issue: Government sponsored National Health Care is unconstitutional. Period. The US government has zero legal authority to do this. "Obama-care" is illegal and we are under no obligation to participate. My suggestion: Just refuse to participate. En-masse. Do Americans have the guts to tell Washington to back off? To refuse to go along with this unconstitutional power grab? I seriously doubt it. Otherwise people like the Washington Democrats and President Bozo could not even get elected. But they did. And they will almost certainly be re-elected. The American people brought this on themselves and those of us who know better will be forced illegally to go along with it.

Cecilia| 8.6.09 @ 11:24AM

This is to Blunted regarding the "security" of BHO "health care reform":

Benjamin Franklin
1759 - Historical Review of Pennsylvania

They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Reference: The Works of Benjamin Franklin, Sparks, ed., vol. 3 (107)

_____

Thomas Jefferson
1775 - Declaration of the Causes and Necessities of Taking up Arms

Honor, justice, and humanity, forbid us tamely to surrender that freedom which we received from our gallant ancestors, and which our innocent posterity have a right to receive from us. We cannot endure the infamy and guilt of resigning succeeding generations to that wretchedness which inevitably awaits them if we basely entail hereditary bondage on them.

____

Patrick Henry
1775 - Speech to the Virginia Convention

Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

Reference: Respectfully Quoted

Reference: Journals of the Continental Congress, 1774-1789, Ford et al., ed., vol. 2 (154)

Paul Marin| 8.6.09 @ 11:33AM

Has the government gone bankrupt over the aristocracy we have built with our covering our Senators, Congressmen/women and their respective families etc. around 10,000 or so to the best health care money can buy that are being paid by our taxes.
Don't we the People deserve the same? Or are we only required to pick up their costs and all living past Presidents with insurance and pensions, and secret service and we get nothing. Yet Congress gives Illegals Health, Housing and full benefits .
There is something fundamentally wrong here.

Cecilia| 8.6.09 @ 11:37AM

Why isn't anyone talking about the CONSTITUTIONALLY of this so-called "health care" reform. Read Article 1, Section 8 of the precious document and you won't find health care as a power granted to the federal government. And if its not granted to the feds, its reserved for the people and the states. Read the Constitution and show me where health care is listed. I DARE YOU.

Cecilia| 8.6.09 @ 11:41AM

Re: send "fishy" emails to the White House. Here's the email I sent to them yesterday:

Dear Comrad Obama,

I understand that this is where I report people who are vocal against your health care bill. Alas, I'm writing to turn myself in.

As per my First Amendment rights, I have been emailing everyone I can think of, and talking to people about how bad your so-called "health care" bill is.
I do not want this "health care reform" you keep trying to ram down our throats.

Since when does the Constitution say the federal government can do ANYTHING with health care?

How about you and your liberal cronies sit down and read the Constitution. I bet you'd find that the federal government has abolutely no power over the health care of the citizens of the United States. While you're at it, read Federalist #41 by James Madison, written on January 19, 1788. I believe its paragraph 22 that defines what the "general welfare means." I mention this in case you or the imbeciles around you want to say that the words "general welfare" means "health care." As you can read in Jame's Madison's own words, it doesn't.

Contrary to what you have been saying on the news (via your state run media), I am not demonstrating against it because I'm an employee of an insurance company. I'm not. Nobody in our family is in the insurance industry, nor do we even know anyone in that business. Hell, I don't even know the name of the agent for my homeowner's insurance! We are not employed in the medical field either. Instead of ramming your health care reform down my throat, you can ram this email up your...

I remain a proud "Right-Wing Extremist."

Don Monkerud| 8.6.09 @ 12:48PM

We have been relying upon your solution for many, many years--along with your fears of "socialism"-- and look what it got us! We have too much care, too expensive, shoddy treatment and cost out the roof. Your solution makes us all poorer, the health investors wealthier, the country falling in all comparisons with other countries. Now you want more of the same!

The saddest part is that this isn't socialist, it's a capitalist solution! Single payer is the way to go and it's not really socialist either. But it's much better that what we have gotten from you conservative, supposedly free-market, pay off the Congressmen people. We need change!

Robert Rosencrans| 8.6.09 @ 1:59PM

Some of the numbers being thrown around in reference to the uninsured are baloney. No one has an exact number so all estimates are irrelevant.

free| 8.6.09 @ 2:57PM

Hey Albert Frevele!
You may be on to something...

Per blunted's THE SECURITY YOU GET from health insurance reform list, last point:
* Insurance companies will be required to renew any policy as long as the policyholder pays their premium in full.

Sounds like a get out of jail card to me.

Jewish Health care BUST| 8.6.09 @ 7:54PM

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#1 (permalink) 07-29-2009, 03:33 PM
bripat
Machiavelli Incarnate Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,293

Dozens arrested in Medicare fraud busts across US

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dozens arrested in Medicare fraud busts across US - Yahoo! News

By KELLI KENNEDY, Associated Press Writer Kelli Kennedy, Associated Press Writer

MIAMI – Federal authorities arrested more than 30 suspects, including doctors, and were seeking others in a major Medicare fraud bust Wednesday in New York, Louisiana, Boston and Houston, targeting scams such as "arthritis kits" — expensive braces that many patients never used.

More than 200 agents worked on the $16 million bust that included 12 search warrants at health care businesses and homes across the Houston area, where the bulk of the arrests were made.

Federal authorities say those businesses were giving patients "arthritis kits," which were nothing more than expensive orthotics that included knee and shoulder braces and heating pads. Patients told authorities they were unnecessary and many never even received them. But health care clinic owners billed between $3,000 to $4,000 for each kit.

Houston's other scam involved billing Medicare for thousands of dollars worth of liquid food like Ensure for patients who can't eat solid food. Authorities said clinic owners never distributed the food to patients. In some cases, clinic owners billed patients who were dead when they allegedly received the items.

It's the third major sweep since Attorney General Eric Holder, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius announced in May they were adding millions of dollars and dozens of agents to combat a problem that costs the U.S. billions each year.

Using about a dozen agents in targeted cities, including Miami, the Medicare Fraud Strike Force, has recovered $371 million in false Medicare claims and charged 145 people across the country in just two months.

Two shocked female employees arriving for work Wednesday morning at Memorial Medical Supply in a strip mall in southwest Houston were met by federal agents. Authorities confiscated paperwork and a computer. Owners of the business did not respond to calls from the Associated Press.

The suspects arrested Wednesday in Houston will make court appearances Thursday morning. Suspects in Boston, New York and Louisiana were to have first appearances later Wednesday.

The first strike force started in 2007 in Miami, a city authorities say is responsible for more than $3 billion a year in Medicare fraud. Clinic owners there would bill Medicare dozens of times for the same wheelchair, while never giving the medical equipment to patients.

The problems have become more complex since then.

Officials say the suspects have moved into more sophisticated scams including home health care, physical therapy and infusion drugs. They've even started tapping into Medicaid Advantage, which allows the elderly and disabled to get benefits through private health insurers. The plans receive a government subsidy and generally offer more benefits than traditional Medicare.

Federal authorities say Miami residents are also moving on to other cities, bringing their scams with them.

Strike force teams, each led by a federal prosecutor and a handful of agents, were started in Los Angeles, Detroit, Houston in the past year.

Since 2007, strike forces in Miami, Detroit and Los Angeles have indicted more than 293 suspects and organizations that collectively have billed the Medicare program for more than $674 million.

Agencies participating in the busts Wednesday included the FBI, the HHS Office of the Inspector General, the Drug Enforcement Administration and the Texas Attorney General's Medicaid Fraud Control Unit.

Along with issuing indictments, authorities freeze bank accounts and seize everything from Rolls Royce's to million dollar homes purchased with funds stolen from Medicare.

Suspects are being charged not just with health care fraud, but all relevant conduct. That means average prison sentences 50 percent more than the overall national average sentence in federal health care fraud cases in 2008.

While authorities are gratified by the arrests, the program's purpose is more than punitive. It's also about deterrence.

Deputy Attorney General David W. Ogden says the interagency partnership is unprecedented in authorities' ability to track Medicare fraud "as it's happening, using real-time data analysis of Medicare billing records."

In the past, authorities have struggled to catch up with fast-moving crooks. By the time local authorities are alerted to potential fraud, it's already been committed.

"We are also working together across the federal government on important new innovations in the way we do business on the front end, to try and prevent crime like this from happening in the first place," said Bill Corr, Deputy Secretary of Health and Human Services.
__________________
"The state is the great fictitious entity by which everyone seeks to live at the expense of everyone else."

- Frederic Bastiat -

#2 (permalink) 07-29-2009, 03:36 PM
INRI
Machiavelli Incarnate Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,350

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Looks like more jews are going for a ride on the Federal buh-bye bus.

Good riddance.
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#3 (permalink) 07-29-2009, 03:49 PM
wow
Machiavelli Incarnate Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,172

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who is regulating the Politicians that steal from Veteran's healthcare, Medicare and Medicaid?
__________________
Obama's economic plan: Convince Americans it's patriotic to live in tax poverty.

#4 (permalink) 07-29-2009, 03:52 PM
phxcon
Smart, Right, Right Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,709

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by wow
Who is regulating the Politicians that steal from Veteran's healthcare, Medicare and Medicaid?

Nobody. That's the problem. Medicare is one of the biggest corruption magnet because there is nobody to oversee it. And, bottom line, that is my biggest issue with this healthcare bullshit. It'll be just like medicare: Corrupt, unwatched.
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#5 (permalink) 07-29-2009, 03:54 PM
O Rly?
Messenger of Truth Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bringing the pwnage
Posts: 33

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by phxcon
Nobody. That's the problem. Medicare is one of the biggest corruption magnet because there is nobody to oversee it. And, bottom line, that is my biggest issue with this healthcare bullshit. It'll be just like medicare: Corrupt, unwatched.

Because there's no such thing as private insurance fraud.

#6 (permalink) 07-29-2009, 03:55 PM
phxcon
Smart, Right, Right Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,709

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by O Rly?
Because there's no such thing as private insurance fraud.

There is a regulatory body to complain to. Who are you going to report government abuse to? You fucking nit wit! You really need to just go shit into your hat. You are THAT pathetic.
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#7 (permalink) 07-29-2009, 03:56 PM
INRI
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Posts: 9,350

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Let's frog-march some more jews, baby!!!

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#8 (permalink) 07-29-2009, 03:56 PM
houndish1
Political Mastermind Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,542

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by phxcon
Nobody. That's the problem. Medicare is one of the biggest corruption magnet because there is nobody to oversee it. And, bottom line, that is my biggest issue with this healthcare bullshit. It'll be just like medicare: Corrupt, unwatched.

So if Medicare is corrupt, why does the government want to expand its oversight and management via NHC? I thought according to some Libs on here, the government is doing a great job running their healthcare system.

#9 (permalink) 07-29-2009, 03:57 PM
wow
Machiavelli Incarnate Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,172

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by phxcon
Nobody. That's the problem. Medicare is one of the biggest corruption magnet because there is nobody to oversee it. And, bottom line, that is my biggest issue with this healthcare bullshit. It'll be just like medicare: Corrupt, unwatched.

Well said!
__________________
Obama's economic plan: Convince Americans it's patriotic to live in tax poverty.

#10 (permalink) 07-29-2009, 03:57 PM
Gummer
Big Dog Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The deep end of the gene pool
Posts: 5,706
Blog Entries: 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...... let us know when the count gets somewhere near the hundreds of thousands who are defrauding the system .... until then .... nothing is corrected .... just today's consumer news .... some feel good .... somebody cares .... temporary hype ....
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Socialism defined: .... The Utopian "dream destination" of the mediocre ....

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US Medical Fraud| 8.6.09 @ 8:04PM

Ever since John D. Rockefeller gained control of the American Medical Establishment in the first half of the 20th century, millions of Americans have been intentionally poisoned and murdered by this greedy criminal medical cabal. These crimes include fluoride in our drinking water, aspartame and MSG in our food, Chemtrails in our air, poisonous drugs approved by the corrupt FDA, lies about cholesterol, suppressed cancer cures, and more.

All of these criminal activities, committed by the Rockefeller controlled medical establishment, have resulted in millions of Americans being intentionally poisoned, made to suffer horrible illnesses like cancer, heart disease, stroke, and Alzheimer’s disease, forced to pay enormous sums of money for treatment, and die long before their time.

Americans do not have National Health Care because the Rockefeller-led ruling elite would lose billions in profits. Anyone who believes otherwise is simply naïve.

Before these criminal elites gain censorship control over the internet as they have already accomplished with the mainstream media, simply do Google searches for the above mentioned crimes. You will discover literally millions of articles to read and hundreds of videos presented by medical doctors, who took their Hippocratic Oath seriously, as well as other highly credentialed scientists and researchers blowing the whistle on these incredibly ugly crimes.

In your research, you will discover that the highest ranking members of the U.S. Government, virtually all of your politicians, law enforcement officials, judges, and the mainstream media are totally controlled by this super wealthy ruling elite. You will also discover that this relatively small number of ruling elite also control the military-industrial complex, all the central banks, and the world’s most powerful corporations.

Anyone in a position of power and influence who decides to stand up to these criminals ends up like Abe Lincoln, JFK, RFK, MLK, and JFK Jr. JFK, Jr. had uncovered the truth about these criminals and was about to reveal it to the world through his magazine when they had him murdered. All of our leaders are either corrupt, too frightened to act against these criminals, or destructively uninformed. Personally, I believe most of our leaders know the truth.

Check out Eustace Mullins’ Murder by Injection, In Lies we Trust by Dr. Len Horowitz, Dr. Julian Whitaker, Dr. Joel Wallach, Dr. Duane Graveline, Royal Raymond Rife, Harry Hoxsey, Essiac, the actual history of the Rockefeller Family, and Ty Bollinger. This can keep you busy for a long time, at least long enough to realize the truth so you can begin protecting yourself, your family, and your friends.

dagny taggart| 8.6.09 @ 8:32PM

Administration efficiency.
Least efficiency: Government. Examples: Post office, Amtrak
Intermediate: Health insurance company
Best: YOU
Solution: Medicaid for poor (we already have that), Vouchers for working poor. State high risk pools for middle class uninsurables. Catastrophic plans for all others with MSAs. When you're young catastrophic is cheap, when older you have more in the MSA. All insurance non employee based and tax deductible to an allowable limit. For prevention, a use it or loose it screening depending on age. Menu pricing required for all providers. Any willing providers throughout the country. Plans compete across state lines.

Jim O'Brien| 8.6.09 @ 8:41PM

Obama and Congressional Democrats (Socialists) believe that everyone has a "right" to medical care. They are wrong. People do not have a right to medicine any more than they have a right to free food, free housing, free clothing, free retirement, free cars, or free vacations. Genuine rights cannot exist which depend on taking away from some citizens and giving to others, or which depend on government edicts. Socialized medicine includes laws that ration and deny treatment, laws that take my property (money) in order to pay for others' medical treatment, and laws that ban freedom of choice in decisions that affect my very existence. Socialized medicine violates my Constitutional rights to life, liberty, and property.

Socialists, who have learned absolutely nothing from the collapse of the former USSR, think government bureaucrats are capable of running a medical care system for over 300 million people. They plan to destroy private medical insurance, dictate which doctors and hospitals I am allowed to use, and dictate what surgery, procedures and drugs I am allowed to have. The Socialists want to expand the government's role in every way, including more control over what doctors and hospitals are paid, and more control over prices charged by pharmaceutical companies. Well, price controls have never worked, and never will. They will lead to a scarcity of doctors and hospitals, life-threatening delays for patients who need urgent medical care, low quality care, and an end to private initiatives in the development of new surgical procedures, other treatments, and new drugs.

Right now Americans enjoy the best medical care in the world despite the government. The government is already involved in roughly one-half of all health care spending, through Medicare, Medicaid, State, and local programs. And Congress continues to use federal income tax regulations to limit our choices and control our lives. Instead of more government involvement in medicine, we need far less. Government is the problem, not the solution. The best way to improve medical care is not to give more power to the government, but to tear down the wall of federal controls and allow free enterprise to work.

Reaganite Republican| 8.7.09 @ 8:36AM

These shameful episodes of the DNC calling Obamacare protesters paid shills -even running TV ads to slander them- and Nancy Pelosi seeing imaginary Swastikas should make clear to anyone still giving Obama the benefit-of-the-doubt just what these far-left elitists think of your opinion.

Note that whenever Obama, Emanuel, or Gibbs are asked about why polls show SO many people oppose their misguided Cap-n-Trade and Obamacare proposals, they ALWAYS segue-right-into "we need to educate the public...".

LOL- save your breath guys, Constitutionally-aware patriots don't take lectures from Marxists.

http://reaganiterepublicanresistance.blogspot.com

Cecilia| 8.7.09 @ 10:05AM

Well, it's 24 hours later and none of the people here who want this "health care reform" have taken up my challenge about finding where in the Constitution it is that gives the federal goverment power to do anything with health care. Are you guys just ignoring me or are you still looking.....hahahaha

Gene Charles| 8.7.09 @ 2:51PM

In 2003 Barack Obama said at a AFL-CIO meeting:
“Everybody in, nobody out. Single payer universal health care plan that’s what I’d like to see.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpAyan1fXCE

Mussolini, the father of fascism, said the following in the 1920’s.
From Jonah Goldberg’s “Liberal Fascism” Published 2007:
“Mussolini’s useful truth was the concept of a “totalitarian” society – he made up the word – defined by his famous motto: “Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State.”
(Final page of the first chapter.)

At the minimum, the description of the single payer plan should be totalitarian health care.

The question of whether the supporters of this totalitarian plan are progressives, fascists, communists, socialists, national socialists or a new category anti-national socialists is yet to be determined.

What is clear is that they oppose individual freedom and personal responsibility.

Gene Charles
Lakeville, MN

Texas Dar| 8.7.09 @ 8:17PM

Check-It-Out ! "Kick Them All Out.Com" The Real Answer-2-Change

It is very sad to think BO would evan think of taking down new borns and kids up to 10 years if they need specail care. Older ones above 45. What has this world come too............................................... ? This is "Science Fiction", or once was.

Its all in here if you havent seen it............ http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=105525

Then check this out. John Holdren BO Knife-Man to take out un-born babys.................. http://zombietime.com/john_holdren/

Then I came across this from a felow Lyme Suffer and have "Proof-Positave" the goverment started it and many more crap were suffering from...................... http://scienceblogs.com/grrlscientist/2007/08/lab_257.php

Texas Dar| 8.7.09 @ 8:33PM

BO has my brother in "Sconsin" so thinking that were about to get the same great health care our friends get in Canada, but it will cost a little, "But Not as Much As Were Paying Today".............................. in place are "Tricks" to get you off from what you have, & The Shit Yr Gona Get"................................

"You Cant Save The Stupid Sheeple" evan from them self's............. !

Stock up on things like the stuff we all use Everyday like, Ketchsup, Mustared, Mayo, Pickles, you get the idea. If they put it our food, it will be the things in the fridge we all have for use over time.

I woldent be "Suckking On That Fancy Water Bottle" come September.....*

I Know, A Long Read From Dar Again........................DO YOU WANT TO LIVE ( OR ) DIE...........................Your Choice ! If this gets you all Pissed Off, go back and see links to save your family. Start at the top and work down.

Nov. 2 2010, there will no reason to wake up anymore. & The "Sheeple" will still be sheeple............ "Ohhhhh-Weeeeeeeell ! Like we say here in "The Ozark Mtns." And I so want so see the earth roll on its side 12-21-2012 Then "Beem Us Up God".........

Ann saved the 9th 3 weeks ago in pouering down rain. Had all 4 ways bolcked wile she got under a car and pulled him out, wet, cold, and shaking like hell. Someone threw him out at 5 weeks on a red light. We call him "Scotter" ! 9 Rescued Kittys, Ann, & Dar "Goin To Da Big-Haus" !

Check-It-Out ! "Kick Them All Out.Com" The Real Answer-2-Change

Israel Bankrupt USA| 8.8.09 @ 2:37PM

Zionist Jews crimes against USA!

The nation of Israel and Jews, friend or foe of America? Actions speak louder than words;

June 8, 1967; Israeli jets attack the USS Liberty, killing 34 American soldiers.

May of 1970; Perle passing secrets to Israel during Kissinger and Nixon term

1973-2001; according to the Christian science monitor, Since 1973, Israel has cost the United States about $1.6 trillion. Top Jewish senators and Jewish congressmen in the US are voting to take tax payer’s money to support Israel. If divided by today’s US Citizens, that is more than $5,700 per person. That is more than twice the cost of the Vietnam War. Israel receives over 2 billion per year as a peace accord agreement, yet still to this day violates that agreement.

1979-1981 During the US hostage crisis in Iran, Israel was specifically asked to stop supplying Iran with weapons while Iran was holding US hostages. Israel was selling 500 million dollars per year of weapons to Iran, even after America asked Israel to stop.

October 1983; Israel deliberately allows 241 American Marines to die

1984; Israel denies U.S. Justice Department demand to extradite Marc Rich, a convicted Israeli spy against America.

August 1985, Israeli American scientist arrested for stealing 800 nuclear weapons triggers from America and sending them to Israel

November 22, 1985; Jewish US Navy Employee Arrested as Israeli Spy

October 27, 1991; Israel enflames race tensions in America by supplying apartheid South Africa with weapons and forcing the Bush administration to waive sanctions against Israel.

March 1995; Israel Charged With Systematic Harassment of U.S. Marines

August 23 1996; CIA accuses Israeli spies of theft of U.S. corporate scientific and technological data as the type of espionage that poses the greatest threat to U.S. economic competitiveness.

September 1997; Israel, as a haven for Jewish American murderers to flee to and be holed up in, refuses to extradite the Jewish murderer of an American.

June 18, 1998; Israeli businessman convicted selling chemical and biological weapons components and know-how to Iran for $16 million.

January 28, 1999; Israel transfers laser technology to Communist China, despite American outrage

February 24, 1999; Another Jewish American murderer flees to Israel and is holed up there, after killing another American.

July 30, 1999 Israeli hackers attack Pentagon

February 24, 2000; Israel again sells donated US military technology to Communist China, in the face of US outrage.

September 11, 2001; Israeli spies caught by FBI and Police cheering and photographing the WTC as it fell. What was their excuse? They said they were making a Documentary of 9/11. WTF? If they knew we were going to be attacked then why did they not warn us?

On 9/11 a group of Israelis were arrested.
1) Celebrating the attacks on us.
2) Trying to blow up the George Washington Bridge.
3) Blowing up a Van on King St near 6th and 7th.
911 Missing Links documentary. Very Interesting Information!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7877765982288566190

15 March 2002; Israel ignores US demand to leave Palestinian territories, damaging American credibility and making America look like a hypocrite for forcing Sadam out of Kuwait but not Sharon out of Palestine.

June 28, 2002; Israel Reports Weapons Development in Iraq, also prodded by 25 neo-conservatives, mostly Jewish, Bush went to war with Iraq, costing nearly a thousand American soldiers their lives, no weapons found.

August 28.2002; Israel Supplying Iran again: Germany holds up Israeli military shipment said headed for Iran

October 4, 2002; 9/11: WHAT DID ISRAEL KNOW? – and when did they tell us?

November 17, 2003; Israel blatantly uses American weapons in violation of AECA agreements between both countries which stipulate that Israel not use such weapons in civilian territories, enraging and inflaming the animosity in the Middle East against America, even though Israel can use Israeli weapons since Israel is the 6th largest weapons producer, it consistently showcases American weapons against civilians, spreading the guilt onto America by association.

25 Apr 2009 A Delta Airlines passenger jet en route to Tel Aviv from New York had to make an emergency stop when an Israeli man attempted to hijack the plane.

Today; Israel forces America to keep silent about Israel’s nuclear weapons, again destroying America’s credibility world wide and leaving America looking like a hypocrite on it’s goal to end weapons of mass destruction world wide, also allowing the “unsecure” Israel to attempt to guard that nuclear stockpile from the Middle Eastern black market.

In conclusion, since the founding of Israel in 1950, no other country has cost America more lives, money, and damage to credibility than Israel.

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Joihn Bowker| 8.10.09 @ 10:42PM

You quote Dick Morris????

There goes any credibility.
Also, I guess you don't care about the 1,000,000 + Americans filing BK due to health expense or the 18,000 that die each yr due to no coverage.

Dr. Jason Campagna| 8.16.09 @ 3:50AM

Mr. Obama may mean well, but his policies as articulated and planned are a Trojan Horse of sorts for very concerning things. Light, as a supreme court justice once said, is the best disinfectant. Many doctors, a great many, do not agree with the AMA and do not support HCR as articulated. Our comments and discussion can be found at www.takebackmedicine.org

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