The American Spectator : Farewell to Judgment

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Farewell to Judgment

By Roger Scruton from the June 2009 issue

Why do young people today refuse to accept criticism from anyone older, who might know a thing or two more than they do?

The sciences aim to explain the world: they build theories that are tested through experiment, and which describe the workings of nature and the deep connections between cause and effect. Nothing like that is true of the humanities. The works of Shakespeare contain important knowledge. But it is not scientific knowledge, nor could it ever be built into a theory. It is knowledge of the human heart. Shakespeare doesn’t teach us what to believe: he shows us how to feel—case by case, person by person, mood by mood.

As universities expanded, the humanities began to displace the sciences from the curriculum. Students wished to use their time at university to cultivate their leisure interests and to improve their souls, rather than to learn hard facts and complex theories. And there arose a serious question as to why universities were devoting their resources to subjects that made so little discernible difference to the wider world. What good do the humanities do, and why should students take three or four years out of their lives in order to read books which—if they were interested—they would read in any case, and which—if they were not interested—would never do them the least bit of good?

In the days when the humanities involved knowledge of classical languages and an acquaintance with German scholarship, there was no doubt that they required real mental discipline, even if their point could reasonably be doubted. But once subjects like English were admitted to a central place in the curriculum, the question of their validity became urgent. And then, in the wake of English came the pseudo-humanities—women’s studies, gay studies and the like—which were based on the assumption that, if English is a discipline, so too are they. And since there is no cogent justification for women’s studies that does not dwell upon the subject’s ideological purpose, the entire curriculum in the humanities began to be seen in ideological terms. The inevitable result was the delegitimizing of English. Unlike women’s studies, which has impeccable feminist credentials (why else was it invented?), English focuses on the works of dead white European males whose values would be found offensive by young people today. So maybe such a subject should not be studied, or studied only as a lesson in social pathology.

People of my generation were taught to believe that there are human universals, which remain constant from age to age. We were taught to study literature in order to sympathize with life in all its forms. It doesn’t matter, we were told, if Shakespeare’s political assumptions do not coincide with ours. His plays do not aim to indoctrinate; they aim to present believable characters in believable situations, and to do so in heightened language that would set our imaginations and our sympathies on fire. Of course, Shakespeare invites judgment, as do all writers of fiction. But it is not political judgment that is relevant. We judge Shakespeare plays in terms of their expressiveness, truth to life, profundity, and beauty. And that is how you justify the study of English, as a training in this other kind of judgment, which leaves politics behind.

This other kind of judgment used to be called “taste.” When the humanities emerged in the late 18th century it was in order to develop taste in literature, art, and music. And so it remained right down to the time of my youth. The central discipline of a subject like English was criticism, and you taught criticism by getting students to raise questions about their own and others’ emotions, and by exploring the ways in which literature can both ennoble and demean the human condition. It was not an easy task, but there were examples to follow—great critics like R. P. Blackmur, F. R. Leavis, William Empson and T. S. Eliot, who had raised the study of literature to a level of seriousness that justified its claim to be an academic subject.

The same was true of art history and musicology. Both subjects involve historical and technical knowledge. But when they emerged as university disciplines they were inseparable from the cultivation of taste. You taught these subjects by way of introducing students to the great works of our civilization (and sometimes of other civilizations too); and all the knowledge you conveyed was designed to back up your principal endeavor, which was to justify aesthetic judgments.

To teach in this way is to run a great risk. Taste and judgment are faculties that we develop: they form part of the great transition from youthful enjoyment to adult discrimination. To teach them is to offer a rite of passage, into the adult way of life. And young people today are suspicious of rites of passage unless they themselves devise them. Their rites of passage are not from adolescence but more deeply into it. This, I believe, is the key to understanding their musical taste. The songs, styles, and groups that appeal to modern adolescents are invitations to join the gang. And criticism of their music by anybody who is outside the gang is offensive—an existential affront, which threatens their core experience of social membership.

This attitude makes judgment all but impossible, and it is one reason why departments of musicology are now “into” pop music and Heavy Metal, and refrain from creating the impression among their students that they regard the Western canon as anything more than a piece of musical history. I recently had the experience of teaching a course on the philosophy of music to young people in a British university, and was acutely aware at every moment of the resentment that now greets any criticism of pop. Only comparative judgments are acceptable, and the comparison has to be between one piece of pop music and another. This is in fact an interesting exercise. You can learn a lot from comparing Peter Gabriel and the Kooks which you probably will not learn from comparing Bach and Vivaldi—a lot about the varied forms of self-indulgence in music, and the many ways of failing to make voice-led harmonies or melodies that are capable of prolongation. But you are not allowed to judge. Lives have been built around this stuff, and they are lives that are armored against the adult world and determined to avoid any passage into it. Students would listen respectfully to my examples from the classics. But they were examples of my music, and in no way to be understood as examples for them to follow. Mozart and Schubert passed before their ears like caravans on the horizon—the spectacle of a distant, exotic, and in the end irrelevant form of human life.

TEACHERS IN SUBJECTS LIKE ENGLISH and art history have also encountered this flight from judgment, and it is one source of the crisis in the humanities, since judgment is what the humanities are really about. Subjects like English and art history grew from the desire to teach young people how to discriminate art from effect, beauty from kitsch, and real from phony sentiment. This ability was not regarded as an unimportant skill like fencing or horse riding, which students are free to acquire or not, according to their interests. It was regarded as a real form of knowledge, as vital to the future of civilization as the knowledge of mathematics, and more closely connected with the moral health of society than any natural science. It was only on that assumption that the humanities acquired their central place in the modern university.

If, however, the humanities are to avoid the cultivation of taste, it is not only their central place in the curriculum that is thrown in doubt. Given their prominence in the modern university, and the fact that increasingly many students come to university who are unprepared for any other form of study, any change in the humanities is a change in the very idea of a university. Conservatives often complain about the politicization of the universities, and about the fact that only liberal views are propagated or even tolerated on campus. But they fail to see the true cause of this, which is the internal collapse of the humanities. When judgment is marginalized or forbidden nothing remains save politics. The only permitted way to compare Jane Austen and Maya Angelou, or Mozart and Meshuggah, is in terms of their rival political postures. And then the point of studying Jane Austen or Mozart is lost. What do they have to tell us about the ideological conflicts of today, or the power struggles that are played out in the faculty common room?

The true conservative cause, when it comes to the universities, ought to be the restoration of judgment to its central place in the humanities. And that shows how difficult a task the recapture of the universities will be. It will require a confrontation with the culture of youth, and an insistence that the real purpose of universities is not to flatter the tastes of those who arrive there, but to present them with a rite of passage into something better. And the word “better” simply raises the problem all over again. Who has the right to say, that one thing is better than another?

About the Author

Roger Scruton is a visiting scholar at the American Enterprise Institute. His latest book, How to Think Seriously About the Planet: The Case for an Environmental Conservatism, has just been published by Oxford University Press.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (417) | Leave a comment Leave a comment

Marc Jeric| 6.5.09 @ 7:11AM

Teacher unions in the hands of marxist goons have "educated" three generations of illiterate morons full of self-esteem, ignorant of history, literature, geography, arts, logic, mathematics, physics, critical thinking - but well versed in self-indulgence, science of victimization, "social studies", rap music, and the firm "knowledge" that society owes them a comfortable living. And so they vote for "change" and "hope" in the form of Abu Hussein from Kenya, our Community Organizer-in-Chief with his ACORN brownshirts leading us to the blessings of socialism.

SLG| 6.5.09 @ 8:15AM

Pabulum Puke rhetoric; far too many words used in the column, and Marc (above) pretty much said it all in a fraction of the space/time/words (think of the trees he saves...).
Never appreciated Shakespeare, nor most of his other poet friends. Michael Moorcock said: "The ideas of Byron and Shelley have probably caused more young men to lose their lives in hopeless, idiotic, romantic causes than the ideas of Karl Marx. Romanticism is the disease of the Modern Age."
So much for insight and humor(?) -- read Marc Jeric's thing again. Substance minus verbosity.

Peter| 6.5.09 @ 8:25AM

Why don't the young learn from the experience of the old is an intergenerational question asked across the ages. When the author says, "people of my generation were taught..." What generation is this? Certainly not the Baby Boom Generation. For never was a cohort less inclined to embrace the wisdom of those who had gone before than the Boomers. Nor was there ever a generation with less wisdom to leave behind. They/We will pass from the world stage un-missed and un-mourned.

Bob Miller| 6.5.09 @ 8:39AM

"Why can't they be like we were, perfect in every way? What's the matter with kids today?"

"Don't know much about history; don't know much about biology..."

Actually, the phenomenon addressed here goes back a long way, before the boomers even. The fairly new factor is that the societal institutions that should stand against it have thrown in with the enemy. Parents who care about this need to find or create alternative institutions based on sound principles.

Michael L. Hauschild| 6.5.09 @ 8:51AM

I love these “the youth is worthless” laments. Numerous examples of such non-sense exist, some as old as graffiti on the walls of Pompeii. Take a deep breath and ponder.
1. Who failed raising these “kids?”
2. The government they have inherited is corrupt, and in a very non-partisan way has been for some time.
3. Those that actually “serve” face daily hostility from their own government, the media and the ivory tower.
4. They may lack experience but they are not stupid. They see what goes on around them and are fully aware of the “do as I say, not what I do” adage.
It is no small wonder to me that they have, when promised a glowing future by the various wordsmiths, respond with the vote that reflects idealism and not reality. After all they are young. Those of us who are long in the tooth had better realize that they, warts and all, are the ones that will nurture us in our old age.
They, as we also all know, will suffer the follies of youth. Luckily they also have the resilience of being young; they (and us) will need that resilience because the brunt of our own failings will fall most heavily on them.
When you speak of the youth you speak of yourselves; they did not spring into being as sprouts from the ground. If you do not "share the blame" you had better not complain to hard about having to spread your wealth.

Ryan| 6.5.09 @ 8:57AM

Several things.

Not sure how this works in, but we have to remember the relatively recent rise of the adolescent. Kids who are 15-21 WEREN'T considered children so much until about just before WWII. "Puberty" is a relatively recent invention - mostly by moneyed interests of all sorts from education to pop-culture centered businesses.

Kids need to live in an adult world MUCH sooner than we force them to. The ones that do are going to wind up being the ones that run it.

Loans in Australia | 8.4.11 @ 10:29PM

I couldn't agree more Ryan. Kids need to grow up and take responsibility for their own decisions and actions much sooner that then are currently doing.

blackelkspeaks| 6.5.09 @ 9:39AM

Scruton observes: "The true conservative cause, when it comes to the universities, ought to be the restoration of judgment to its central place in the humanities."

One cannot consider the purpose of a university without identifying its original curricula (the Trivium and Quadrivium) and goal (theological piety). Scruton comes to this in a roundabout way, but leaves unsaid the central point. That is, in secular institutions there is no foundation upon which to base any sort of judgment. Even the ancient Greeks believed their culture to be superior to the "Barbarians". In a world without God, the universities, which began as centers of religious inquiry, have no purpose beyond mere technical schools.

The recent travesty of Notre Dame is a timely and glaring example of this.

Nittany| 6.5.09 @ 9:45AM

The criticism against Boomers is justified and I speak as one....I'm sick to death of my contemporaries in tee shirts and jeans, ponytails falling from backward caps (not hats), chumming around with their children, etc
I want to say simply "Grow up !" Then we might have standing to say to post-adolescents "Grow Up !" too.
B-T-W, this is a Western phenomem.....the early achievement of judgement , taste and maturity is much more common in other cultures. Why ?

Dave | 6.5.09 @ 9:55AM

Excellent article. It is true that other generations have lamented the direction of the young. But a juvenile mindset has become more institutionalized nowadays. I have found that at least some young people are receptive to Classical music--if they are exposed to it. Tragically, pop has flooded over our culture like an omnipresent virus, both a cause and effect of a civilization in decline. This is true of music and of many other forms of cultural expression.

Big J| 6.5.09 @ 11:26AM

The article - mediocre at best.

The responding posts - absolutely fantastic.

Not a complete waste of time, after all.

Son Of Sam | 6.5.09 @ 11:42AM

Perhaps the reason "the children" have turned out the way they have is that we older members of society have allowed them to be stolen away by the hate-filled ranting insane among us who bear the label "progressive".

As a teacher myself, I say, "take back the children and you will take back America"

stand strong until freedom dawns
Son Of Sam
http://www.samadamssos.bravehost.com

L. Ross| 6.5.09 @ 11:46AM

Mr. Scruton laments the fact that "kids today don't appreciate the classics". What I think he fails to mention is that these "classics" were actually the popular art and entertainment of the day when they came out. Mozart was a doggone rock star. Shakespear was a popular playwrite. These people, and many, many others were writing literature and music that was commercially viable so they could earn a living. Through the benefit of hindsight, we now know who the true masters of their age were, but they were just one of several successful artists in their field of endeavor at the time. There is no doubt that some of our popular artists today have produced top flight art which will be appreciated for decades or centuries to come. Of course, the vast, vast majority will be left in the ash heap of history, but that doesn't mean that anything less than 100 years old is crap.

Ken | 6.5.09 @ 12:38PM

The comments to this article are quite good as is -- despite BigJ's remark -- the article itself. One of the reasons that it is good is because it supplies some things to talk about and as Mortimer Adler reminds us, the interchange of ideas in "conversation" is what can bring one to truth.

One thing I notice about young people is that they either have little to say, or little that they choose to say; or they are so buys talking over another that they don't hear what anyone else is saying. That is in a way one of the problems of these blogs and the comments. But not here, this time, so I'm weighing in. This habit of interruption is likely to be found in time past too, but nowadays it seems to be used more frequently by many in the public eye. And seemingly when they cannot defend their position on an isssue. Barney Frank for instance in hearings where if that same deposition were handed back to him could not respond without self indictment.

One little thing that I noticed in the article is that I was only familiar with Elliot among the "critics" having spent more time in my schooling with critics who were directed in their work toward literature and art. Dr. Johnson, Aristotle, Hazlitt and Shaw. But the macro issues of what Humanities are to show us about life don't change. It's just a matter of cultivating an interest beyond self. (There's a reason the present age is described as relativistic and nihilistic. ) Notwithstanding, I'm with BlackElkSpeaks on the need for God's grace and God's rules.

Roy| 6.5.09 @ 1:03PM

The majority of young people in Ancient Greece or Shakespearean England did not want to read the classics either.

There are still young people that would - in fact I suspect more now than a generation ago, because it is back around to being something "different". I can't think of any teachers I've ever heard of that have the attitude Mr. Scruton describes, though.

The effect he describes affects not just teachers, but students. I knew if I took a class on Plato, it would consist of an interminable rap session where the students vented about how awful a "racist" and "sexist" not to mention just a general stuffy prude Plato was(and that's Plato - any historic Christian figure, hoo boy). So I stuck to science classes. Chicken? Maybe.

Environmentalist| 6.5.09 @ 2:23PM

Be an environmentalist - bury an ACORN nut.

Dadofhomeschoolers| 6.5.09 @ 2:57PM

Ah yes, never use one word when six will do.

Your generation gave us:
Roe v Wade
Billery Clinton
all the Kennedy's
Harry Reid
Nancy Pelosi
B Obama
Arlen Spector
B Frank
etc etc etc
Be glad I listen to you at all.

Sue| 6.5.09 @ 3:16PM

It takes critical thinking skills to pass judgment; these skills are not taught in our schools any longer. And you never see them on exhibit during the nightly news, debates for office, or even in the newspapers/magazines. At one time everyone presented issues in the "compare/contrast" mode, "pro/con" mode. Today, it's just repeat the "talking points" mode and hope it passes for "thinking."

Brian B| 6.5.09 @ 4:42PM

--There is no doubt that some of our popular artists today have produced top flight art which will be appreciated for decades or centuries to come.--

I'd say there's a great deal of doubt about that.

The idiom matters.
If Tintoretto had spent his time with a box of Crayolas and a Bratz coloring book it's doubtful we would still be appreciating him.

The past 100 years has been one big paint-by-numbers and learn-to-play-the-kazoo art fair.

Pat| 6.5.09 @ 5:53PM

You're growing old, you have that unspoken dread as you sense your own mortality - you're desperate, so for diversion you pester the young folks with unwanted advice. It makes you feel wise, it makes you feel like you actually make a difference. You're wrong though, you're just getting old and you have no wisdom to pass on, just more trite and shallow advice that your target audience will, hopefully, ignore completely.

What the young should demand, if they can't get blessed silence from their elders, is a sincere apology for the mess being passed into their hands. For a typical young person in their early 20's, your future isn't so good. You'll have to work very hard your entire life supporting a burgeoning population of gray hairs, complete with petulant demands and tantrums. No use complaining though, you're stuck with them. They blew their retirement nest eggs on foreign wars, absurd social experiments and Big Government giveaways in their egotistic quest to remake society. Now their Social Security and Medicare trust funds are as dry as a 2,000 year old mummy - and they're scared.

You love them, they raised you, took you to the movies, bandaged your scrapes and you feel you owe them something. They're counting on that but still can't resist the urge to lecture you. It's their fear they will be abandoned that drives their words of wisdom. If you're young, ignore the old as best you can. Weigh their experienced wisdom against the society they've created, look at what they've actually done rather than what they say. You'l feel better for it if you do and you won't be led into the same mistakes they've committed and hope to get away with.

Mary| 6.5.09 @ 7:40PM

Don't listen to your critics (except Pat, maybe). I enjoyed reading this.

It made me think of someone who tried desperately to get me to like classical music as much as he did. Jazz too. His loves were science (physics), math and literature. He laughed so hard when I told him I thought that so much Jazz sounded like a warring of instruments.

It's amazing how the peasant class of different nations produce a similar type of music. My Father, a lover of Italian peasant songs, asked me to get him a copy of Linda Ronstadt's version of Blue Bayou. I grew up singing religious peasant songs, written in regional dialect. My favorite was (and remains) Una Vagabonda Innamorata.

As far as the Humanities go, we have traveled a distance in human relations that changes everything, in my view. Some of the changes are good, but many aren't. We've created a world in which beauty is scarce and conformity -masquerading as individuality- almost inescapable. We invented sex. We invented "true" transcendence, and true morality. We invented "authenticity." None of this existed before us. Democratization has one or two drawbacks. :)

After a long run-up, it's not just a different time, it's a different world. But I imagine a top-notch art historian would be able to draw some lessons from history to keep us from thinking it won't be a different world again, and again, and again.

Steve| 6.5.09 @ 7:49PM

Interesting article. Unfortunately the premise upon which it is based is erroneous. The discipline that we now call the “humanities” did not grow out of a study of the sciences but rather it happened the other way round. As universities emerged from out of the monasteries at the end of the middle ages during the time of the renaissance, their primary purpose was for the study of theology, philosophy, and law. During this flowering of learning and the re-discovery of Aristotle—largely preserved in places that at the time were Moslem controlled—led to emphasis on the “new science” based not on metaphysical speculation but on Aristotelian observation of the creation. This gave rise to the “new method” of inquiry that we now call the scientific method. The move from realism to nominalism was being made.

It was the rise of “science” and the desire to make all things “scientific” that gave birth to such things as psychology, sociology and social studies. It was thought that by applying rigid scientific methodology, especially through the use of statistics and quantification that modern social and psychological disciplines were birthed and separated from philosophy and theology. It is the over application and over reaching of the scientific mindset in the unchecked application of empiricism, combined with nominalism and materialistic worldview of both Marxism and scientism that has largely ruined the universities as places of serious study.

The watering down of education has more to do with the rejection of God during the enlightenment combined with Marxist/socialist ideas of egalitarianism—everyone is more or less equal and given the proper environment will all blossom and be successful. Without God, no moral judgments can be made about the worth of a subject. All things, all scholar’s work is more or less of equal value or merit for the betterment of society. We make no judgments. We are all equal. All areas of study are equal. Combine this with the feminist takeover of the education system and “voila!” here we are today.

Sebastian| 6.5.09 @ 10:56PM

These defensive comments about how the old always complain about the young miss a key point of Scruton's essay, namely, his referencing the tribalism behind contemporary popular culture. Never before has there been such a principled argument against learning from the past. Previous generations may have resisted reading some classics, but they could be presented with arguments in favor of learning history and the importance of judgment. Today college students have an entire worldview and academic/corporate/cultural apparatus to back up not only their apathy but their principled hostility, thus the reference to being "offended." Students of old may have been bored stiff reading Aristotle but they were offended by it. There has been an entire shift, perhaps a consequence of democracy and egalitarianism, which endows youth with a wisdom never before taken seriously by the gate keepers. His point that a conservatism that ignores this and instead tries to build with youth culture by being "into" pop is doomed to failure, doomed to a rear-action, strikes me as very true.

Sebastian| 6.5.09 @ 10:58PM

correction: Students of old may have been bored stiff reading Aristotle but they were NOT offended by it.

IzeHavitt| 6.6.09 @ 1:37AM

The Scripture hath plainly taught that "Wisdom is the principal thing." This has rarely been taught since the end of the 1st Century Church. That it has not been taught is also a large part of the reason many reject what they think is Christianity/ Western thought.To a degree, they have a point. IF and when the churches begin teaching this again, the restoration of judgement ( and justice) will soon follow. To those who yearn for justice and judgement, here is the answer you've been looking for. Start here. It is also written: "...all the paths of wisdom are peace". It is obvious that that is the exact opposite of our society today. Take heed.

Kevin| 6.6.09 @ 10:34AM

Pat wrote: "What the young should demand, if they can't get blessed silence from their elders, is a sincere apology for the mess being passed into their hands. For a typical young person in their early 20's, your future isn't so good. You'll have to work very hard your entire life supporting a burgeoning population of gray hairs, complete with petulant demands and tantrums"

Pat - get some perspective. What the young have inherited is a western civilization of nearly unlimited prosperity. The main enemy is now creeping rot from within - a pandemic of narcissism. A key symptom of this is a load of young people whining about what a mess they have inherited, and how difficult their lives are.

GHill| 6.6.09 @ 11:37AM

Think homeschool movement; this is a means to avoid the indoctrination.

Pat| 6.6.09 @ 12:29PM

Are the answers to the question of how the young folks of today can and will support a generation of old geezers comprising 20% plus of the nation's total population to be found within the pages of Milton's "Paradise Lost"? Can the interminable novels of Tolstoy help you decide what to do with 5 million old men and women dying of cancer and requiring prolonged and expensive treatements? Extensive, complex treatments they can't afford but which must be paid for by the working population - namely you. What would Shakespeare do?

Do you spend the money - money that must come from taxes levied on a dwindling population of younger workers in order to prolong their lives another 6 months, maybe another year? Or do you legally require them to die so as to preserve those funds needed to assist others who can be saved - allowing them to pass from this life in a dignified and loving way like they do currently in the Netherlands?

They won't make your decision easy. They'll insist they earned it, paid taxes their entire life, you owe them some consideration and they want to live that extra year. They'll tell you it wasn't their fault the government squandered the money, they never wanted that to happen. But the money is in fact gone - so what do you say to them?

These are questions of judgment and moral values. How do you weigh the care, feeding and medical treatment of these oldsters against what you and your future children will need? Are the answers to be found within the classics? Probably not pragmatic answers that can be implemented - a source of solace maybe, a sense of shared humanity maybe, but not who should live and who should die. Remember, that in the future, you will still have needs that must be met from government - your children need an education, the country must be defended, roads, police, energy generation, medical research, etc., etc. - every agency in government reaching out for your tax dollars. And you need to experience a well-lived life yourself, conserving what little money the government leaves in your pocket.

Today's young folks will make these choices, the old will be trying to influence them through personal advice as well as through their AARP political organizations. Had these unfortunate oldsters planned ahead, their golden years would truly be golden and their legacy, their estate passed on to you young folks would have been a rich one. Unfortunately, that's not to be and young men and women will be forced to make hard choices they never asked for or wanted. So what conceivable advice would these old geezers have that will make these choices easier for you? Ask yourself, what advice could they possibly have for you now that it's too late to matter?

stmichrick| 6.6.09 @ 1:21PM

Pat;

Why don't you take a trip to the Netherlands now as you seem to be in great pain caused by those who have gone before you.

Contempt for learning from history and wisdom gained by the previous generation was accelerated 40 years ago when the Faux Enlightenment of the Children of the Greatest Generation made it to college.

In hindsight, it was inevitable that offspring who knew not the struggle of economic depression and war, only the benefits of a society freed from it, would shirk responsibility for maintaining freedom when confronted.

Pingback| 6.6.09 @ 8:56PM

“Taste and judgment are faculties that we develop: they form part of the great transi links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…“Taste and judgment are faculties that we develop: they form part of the great transition from youthful enjoyment to adult discrimination.” Scott Aniol Roger Scrutton: “ Farewell to Judgment.” Taste and judgment are faculties that we develop: they form part of the great transition from youthful enjoyment to adult discrimination. To teach them is to offer a rite of passage, into the…

Occam's razor| 6.7.09 @ 12:57PM

One of the problems is that the young have been deprived of G-d and verities. In addition, there has been a dumbing down of our educational system that is amazing to observe. It is actually much worse overseas.

When I worked overseas as an MD, I worked with a lot of British trained physicians, all of whom held Master's in Medicine degrees, not Doctorates.

They didn't deserve Doctorates. They went into Med School following one year of college, taking mostly pre-med science courses. Their knowledge of the humanities was minimal. Their ability to judge was quite poor outside of the narrow uses of their technical education.

And these are some of the best educated Europeans.

Paul Lindberg | 6.8.09 @ 4:28AM

My father was 50 years-old when I was born in 1958. As a teenager, I used to think he was an old fuddy-duddy. The realization that I was raised by a man on the leading edge of the greatest generation didn't really sink in until much later and gave me a different perspective than many of my baby-boomer generation.

I didn't live through the great depression and two world wars as he did but I knew of his struggles. My life lived in modest economic circumstances looks like paradise in comparison to his.

I know it sounds cliche, but generation X, Y or whatever they're called today do not realize how good they've got it. Perhaps another worldly calamity will help them to gain some respect for past generations.

Appleby| 6.8.09 @ 6:15AM

This article sums up what I have been trying to tell the little Marxists who increasingly populate Free Dominion, who insist that universities are designed to teach kiddies to make Big Bucks and/or Become Famous while learning a trade that will get them a job at the top of the pyramid the day they exit academe.

The whole idea that, in a world increasingly interconnected (I have had meetings on IM involving 16 differerent countries simultaneously), the more reference points you have the better off you will be, is alien to them. The reason for a classical education was to give a person that foundation of knowledge in common so that when she encountered people she had never encountered before, it would be possible for her to introduce topics of general interest to which everyone could respond -- instead of starting a fight or yelling Hey Hey Ho Ho type slogans penned by a focus group.

My youngest sister stopped her education after high school and never believed her children were capable of absorbing the culture she scorned. She was shocked to discover that at the age of 3 or 4 they could appreciate ballet, enjoy classical music, and come home from a performance of The Mikado singing the patter songs. (Children who can repeat rap songs you hoped they would never hear or understand are fully capable of repeating *Ive Got A Little List* and *The Flowers That Bloom In The Spring* and will delight people instead of shocking them.) Her daughter at the age of 5 stood in a museum exhibit of Edgar Allen Poe memorabilia and read the first two stanzas of The Raven aloud, much to the delight of a visiting Englishman. And when given The Hunchback of Notre Dame to read after seeing the horrible Disney movie, both her sons asked *Why didnt they make a movie out of THIS?* Expose them to the good stuff and they will embrace it -- until the gang tells them its for sissies, when they will leave it until they are old enough to realize that the gang are idiots.

Pingback| 6.8.09 @ 8:12AM

Never Yet Melted » Without Judgement, There is Only Leftism links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

« “He Restored America to Itself” 08 Jun 2009 Without Judgement, There is Only Leftism Colleges and Universities, Education, Egalitarianism, Left Think, Liberal Education, Relativism Roger Scruton, in the American Spectator, describes how sloth, self-indulgence, and intellectual cowardice led the modern university to surrender to egalitarian relativism and thus to be politicized. As universities…

Tim S.| 6.8.09 @ 10:03AM

I teach music at a major university. I have seen the encroachment of teaching junk in the name of egalitarianism, and the banishment by my colleagues of words such as 'good,' 'bad,' and 'better.' Interestingly, these changes are accompanied by annual tuition increases and record numbers of applicants.

It is a sad thought to believe we are codifying the consignment of future generations to bad taste.
Nevertheless, the philosophical seeds have been sown and nourishment provided. We now await the full fruit of our path to judgment-free enlightenment.

Rob Davidson | 11.6.09 @ 10:50PM

I also lecture in music at a university. I pity your students if you're one of those profs who are ignorant enough, like Scruton, to dismiss popular music because you don't have the wit to avoid judging it by the norms of a different culture

Dan| 6.8.09 @ 12:16PM

As one of the "youths" being discussed at such a great distance in this article and the following posts, I would like to give my own insight into what "our" attitude is to this mourning of the death of judgment. It only makes sense to me that a generation which has learned how to do w/o god, is equally capable of doing w/o judgment. I wholeheartedly desire a world where "tastes" don't clash in such horrid affairs as the holocaust, nuclear war, etc. I certainly do NOT want a lapse from the ages of religious judgment into an age where judgment is placed in the hands of my fellow human beings. I hope "my generation" is capable of ignoring these feeble attempts at "recapturing the universities," and starts forming a society that does not relish so much in the tastes of the individual.

Dr Gregory Young| 6.8.09 @ 4:15PM

Well stuctured and argued --- I couldn't agree with you more that the skills of judgement and discernment have also become a "thou shalt not" commandment in our multicultural world.

And just as has been the case in religion, where incontravertibly not judging anything at all has become the rule..., allowing Christianity to become a California, hot-tub, religous experience in turn where everyone is welcome under the big tent, the Commandments and judgements of God becoming diluted and non-referential so as not to offend the human condition..., so has our educational institutions followed suit.

From the Church's own direction, everything else has followed suit, having been watered-down for decades, where the idea of public judgement and discernment are immediately offensive to the mind of any age...., and not just the youth.

I applaud your efforts in making it clear that Republicans and Democrats alike have allowed this dumbing down to occur. This great disservice has caused the present harvest of idiots, both youth and old, who think that there opinion is better than all the rest, refusing history's lessons, refusing to introspect and reflect upon the great truths that have served humanity verses the common egotism that berates anything that doesn't look like themselves....even as can be found protesting in this blog.

To these, I regret to say that "Graciousness" is finally become an unknown and "Humanity" now means "me-mania."

Here's a thought: I would like to take away all the technology and the history of it, for the youth completely "dis" the labor and hard work that past generations have given, freely offered to each new generation without even having to know how something works, and why it works. Spoiled, undisciplied and ungrateful children have much to learn. And they generally come from parents of the same liberal ilk.... Go figure!

Damian| 6.9.09 @ 4:40AM

Pat said "These are questions of judgment and moral values. How do you weigh the care, feeding and medical treatment of these oldsters against what you and your future children will need? Are the answers to be found within the classics? Probably not pragmatic answers that can be implemented - a source of solace maybe, a sense of shared humanity maybe, but not who should live and who should die."

Distubingly, the text you seem to be suggesting we follow is "Logan's Run."

Hugo de Naranja| 6.9.09 @ 4:52AM

Some 4300 U.S. soldiers have so far died in Iraq, and 700 more in Afghanistan. If demographic information gathered by American Forces Radio can be trusted, it would seem that US deployed overwhelmingly prefer hip hop, rap, and pop music to "Das Lied von der Erde," or even the juvenile Mozart.
And yet Mr. Scrunton somehow finds it within himself to ask about these young people, "What do they have to tell us about the ideological conflicts of today?"
Since these young volunteer soldiers rather stubbornly forsake the moral uplift of R. P. Blackmur, F. R. Leavis, William Empson and T. S. Eliot, for the less numinous rewards found in publications such as "King," "Girls Gone Wild," and "Stash," we can assume only that Mr. Scrunton should judge them as having "nothing of value to tell us about the ideological conflicts of today."
What, precisely, is the point that Mr. Scruton seeks to make? That we ought admire the decision of these young soldiers to give their lives for their country, but then dismiss them, by virtue of their their taste in music and literature, as selfish dimwits?

One can but wonder at a conservatism so radically divorced from the commonplaces of day-to-day reality that it expresses contempt for the same people it otherwise claims to honor.

# # #

stuart munro| 6.9.09 @ 6:05AM

I cannot speak to musical tastes, but certainly in literature the rise of the new is by no means universally supported by students.
A great many students are thoroughly apalled by the intrusion of post-modern issues into areas better occupied by canon literature.
There is little in the way of credible post-Marxism to be had, feminism is essentially a rump position now that most of its battles are won, and the same might be said for gay rights.
So really these positions can be dispensed with now, and universities can return their literature departments to a consideration of notable books. Those who do not welcome such a move can set up independent faculties in their odd quasi-political specialties. I wonder how long they will last.

fred lapides| 6.9.09 @ 6:45AM

Is it possible for a conservative to write anything withut at first dumping on so-called unions, the cause of all the world's problems? This article is about university students and teaching. Not about public schools and unions. Unions in universities have little or no power : witness what has happened to what used to be tenure (now there is a non-tenure track), and rising use of part time isntructors and grad students to teach all sorts of classes. When do unions go on strike at colleges?
Forget the unions and confront the interesting issues being discussed in this very nice article.

Pingback| 6.9.09 @ 6:52AM

Comment on “Farewell to Judgment” « Backtosocrates’s Blog links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

Theory of Frms Comment on “Farewell to Judgment” By backtosocrates Comment on Roger Scruton’s “Farewell to Judgment” in The American Spectator, June 2009: http://spectator.org/archives/2009/06/05/farewell-to-judgment Roger Scruton’s “Farewell to Judgment” raises a question of vital importance for the future of human culture. I only wish he had defined the role of philosophy in the desired…

William Briggs | 6.9.09 @ 7:17AM

Scruton's point is amply made by examining the responses, which mostly run to the "How dare he criticize me?" Which is not surprising. How to Recognize Irony was not among these commenter's lessons.

Further, nearly all modern music is childish, simplistic, boring, banal, and just plain awful. Mozart may have been, as one person said, a "rock star", but not every composer of symphonic or adult music was. The reason to study Wolfgang A. is because he was *good*.

Pingback| 6.9.09 @ 7:49AM

William M. Briggs, Statistician & Consultant » Reasons the Apocalypse is not near links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…a song I thought previously was for kids. Nelson Riddle was right: it’s all in the arrangement. A juicy thunderstorm shot through Manhattan last night, and another is on its way. Roger Scruton fights back! (from A&LD, ‘natch) “Only comparative judgments are acceptable [at university courses on music], and the comparison has to be between one piece of pop music and another. This is in fact…

Pingback| 6.9.09 @ 8:21AM

Verse Wetenschap - » Het einde van de universiteit? links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…onderwijs hopeloos verouderd is, en totaal ongeschikt voor de internetgeneratie. En Roger Scruton doet er nog een schepje bovenop door te stellen dat universiteiten jongeren tegenwoordig opleiden tot kritiekloze pubers, in plaats van tot verantwoordelijke volwassenen. Storm in een glas water of gefundeerde kritiek? Verse Wetenschap houdt in de gaten hoe de discussie zich gaat ontwikkelen. Informatie en Links Draag…

Pingback| 6.9.09 @ 9:14AM

Steynian 362 « Free Canuckistan! links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…O COUNTY Officials…Um Sorry We Didn’t Know About That Freedom Of Religion Thing …. (ace) ~ OH, MAN – A survival guide… The Ultimate Man’s Survival Guide …. (NRO) ~ FAREWELL TO JUDGEMENT , by Roger Scruton– “Why do young people today refuse to accept criticism from anyone older, who might know a thing or two more than they do?” …. (spectator.org) ~ SPANISH…

Urstoff| 6.9.09 @ 9:46AM

You can pick one criterion by which to judge something and then call it "taste", but that criterion will always be wholly arbitrary. Perhaps the emotions a piece of music elicits is that criterion, but why not the cleverness of the music, or the infectiousness of the rhythm, or (gasp!) the wordplay of the lyrics? Judged by one standard Mozart is good taste and Bach is merely the soul-less prog-rocker of his day. Think Beatles versus Rush; or more recent, Fleet Foxes versus Dream Theater.

To ascribe a universal purpose to music is folly, just as it is to ascribe such a purpose to literature, art, and the like. We can enjoy music for many different reasons, just as we can be stimulated by a work of literature for many different reasons. Jane Austen gives me a different kind of enjoyment than Robert Heinlein, but to pick one simple criterion and say that Jane Austen is tasteful whereas Heinlein is not is simply being stodgy.

Judgment across works is rightfully dead. Instead, let's ask why a person finds X so interesting. Why do people by mystery novels by the millions? Because they like plot more than character. That's not folly, that's preference. Sharing with each other why we like certain works can help broaden tastes and expand our minds; ask a classical music enthusiast why he enjoys his favorite work and no doubt you'll enjoy it much more the next time you hear it. Do the same with some piece of pop music. Then you might realize that aesthetic enjoyment is a wonderful and incredibly diverse thing, and making value judgments only serves to give one tunnel vision.

Rob T.| 6.9.09 @ 9:59AM

SLG: I enjoyed your moronically simple-minded caricature of Romanticism. In your own way, you are as bad as those misguided youth in the hands of "Marxist goons" whose fate you bewail. Educate yourself, before making yourself ridiculous with pronouncements that reflect the reasoning and knowledge levels of an elementary school student.

Rob T.| 6.9.09 @ 9:59AM

Don| 6.9.09 @ 10:46AM

Of what use are the humanities, if not to produce humane societies?

Over roughly the same time as European culture was producing classical music, Shakespeare, and all the other forms to which the humanities are devoted, it was in the process of killing more people and erasing more rival cultures from existence than any other society in history.

The humanities, so uncritically lauded here (irony alert!), do not seem to have done much to civilize their creators.

Pingback| 6.9.09 @ 11:08AM

“Farewell to Judgment” « Craig's Blog links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

Blog Craig's Blog Just another Wordpress.com weblog Home “Farewell to Judgment” Roger Scruton – the conservative British philosopher – has a characteristically intriguing essay in the American Spectator this week. His overall theme is the decline of the humanities in colleges and universities, and more specifically of the cultivation and practice of judgment (in the sense of…

Pingback| 6.9.09 @ 11:11AM

Conservatism, Judgment, and the Humanities - Cultural Gadfly links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…Judgment, and the Humanities Written by Roland. Other posts by Roland Add comments I read a great piece over on the American Spectator this morning, and thought some of you might like it. Roger Scruton writes, People of my generation were taught to believe that there are human universals, which remain constant from age to age. We were taught to study literature in order to sympathize with life in all its…

AJSabatini| 6.9.09 @ 11:16AM

As usual, Roger Scruton hits some of the right notes, but plays the wrong music. His first key point is right on the mark - and pretty much overlooked in the comments I have read so far. Literature and the arts are a form of knowledge. Knowledge neither means information nor wisdom, nor the result of empirical processes. The devaluing of the arts as a form of knowledge (social, cultural, political, human) and the approach to the arts as "entertainment" or some form of irrationality is deeply connected to the scorn for any art form that does not titillate. As for taste and judgment, I would argue that it is only valid when based on knowledge. Finally, Scruton's problem (and apparently his supporters) is that he chooses obvious examples to mock. There are many serious contemporary artists who produce substantial work.

Tim| 6.9.09 @ 11:27AM

This is an incredibly complex subject and I appreciate Mr. Scruton's efforts in such a short space. As an educator, I have felt responsible for not only teaching the classics but for studying popular culture. That perspective allowed me to see that the dire scenario presented here is not just a matter of a bunch of Marxist educators (actually in over 30 years in the field, I don't know all that many of them) or die-hard pop culturists storming the ivy citadels. They have indeed not done a lot to further the appreciation of the serious arts but they are not the sole cause nor is it the lack of strong religious education. There are a number of factors, of which bad teaching and over-politicizing are two, and there is one which of course conservatives hardly ever mention because it makes them complicit in this whole problem. And that is the marketplace. Probably since the Renaissance (at least!) audiences and business people have gravitated towards the popular. While Pope and Swift and Dr. Johnson were writing, audiences were streaming into theatres to see Lillo's The London Merchant--a sort of theatrical potboiler of it's day--and reading gothic romances. Hawthorne complained of the damned lot of scribbling women at work in the 19th century (this all before Marx and the mass media). At the turn of the century, theatregoers and music lovers were probably more enthralled with "Poor Butterfly" than Madama Butterfly (again before radio, TV and Marxist educators and theory!!). If you are going to have free market and allow capitalism to work, you run the risk of having to cater (or pander) to the tastes of the audience. Tastes that are not going to be transformed in the matter of 4 years of college where General Education is cut back and the arts and humanities are diminished. I well know that even though a conscientious educator can play and make every effort to get students to appreciate Mozart, or lecture with great enthusiasm about Leonardo, or lead a lively discussion of Jane Austen, there is an 80% chance that the next work the student consumes will be a pop tune, a TV program and the latest from Patricia Cornwell--and so it has always been!!
I would add that I wish we educators would do a better job of generating enthusiasm for the classics but I also wish that conservatives would be more supportive of efforts to advance the arts and the actual study of the humanities. I am not saying that there is an inherent incompatibility with the marketplace and serious art but year after year (and I am 61) I have seen serious art lose any position it held in most media; why, who is going to spend advertising bucks on something that might attract a 2% share when I can put my bucks behind a bunch of idiots engage in what is laughingly thought of as "reality" and get a 30% share. I suppose you can blame liberals for that if you really need to but I have a hard time buying it.
Most of the posts here offer no solutions but continue a persistent and not very convincing whine about the state of culture.

Dave Khan| 6.9.09 @ 11:55AM

Comments by "Pat" are wonderful examples of the dismal failure of education in the humanities for recent generations.

"Pat" clearly represents young people who don't like the world they've inherited. But of course, lacking any education in history or the humanities, they simply cannot comprehend the simple fact that every generation preceding them also inherited a flawed, damaged world, filled with trouble and problems, and that being young and blaming the old for the worlds problems is nothing new. They don't really seem to even grasp, in any but the most superficial sense, that history is real, and extends rather further back than just their parents. So they look at the world, from the comfort of their climate-controlled homes, with their laptops and their earbuds and their cell phones and their bellies full of food provided by others, and having swallowed the woe-is-me, the-world-is-doomed propaganda they were fed all through their school years, they bemoan the state of the world and look for someone to blame it on. And of course it's only blame they want to assign: it never occurs to them to give credit to their forbears for their wealth; they've been so immersed in wealth all their lives that they don't even see it. They're unaware that throughout the past 50 thousand years most of humanity endured short lives filled with backbreaking labor, hunger, disease, war, poverty and misery; they just know they're ever-so miserable and angry at mommy and daddy. And they're very, very upset that mommy and daddy are going to get old and have to be cared for. How awful! How dare they! Why don't they just go away and die, and then the world will be wonderful.

Having no education in the humanities, they have no connection to humanity. They've been raised in a world that puffed up their self-esteem without justification, and made them totally self-involved and self-absorbed, and they truly resent the existence of the mean old fuddy-duddy people who didn't make the world a paradise and don't have the decency to die young. Lacking any connection to the past, to humanity itself, they imagine that the world actually WAS a paradise until mommy and daddy came along and ruined it. Without education, they don't realize and can't believe that the world today is a better place than it used to be. They just know that if their cell phone stops working it must be replaced immediately, because life without it would be unthinkable.

Our educational institutions have been failing for many decades, not only at the university level as the article addresses, but throughout the primary and secondary levels, from the time toddlers first leave the home to go to school. It isn't a new problem; the beginnings of it go back at least 70 or 80 years. But as each new generation of teachers comes from the failing, degenerate schools of the previous one, the effect is cumulative, and now verges on the point of utter and complete failure.

And it would be difficult to find a better example of just how appalling and complete the failure is than the person who commented above under the name "Pat".

judithod| 6.9.09 @ 12:00PM

As an example of "indoctrination," fact check Obama's Cairo speech. While flattering himself as a "student of history," Obama credits Muslim innovations for the development of algebra, the magnetic compass and tools of navigation, pens and printing. The Hindu Indians invented algebra and the decimal system. The Chinese invented the magnetic compass and printing. The Egyptians were writing with pens long before Mohammed existed. Modern astronomy is the result of the efforts of Ptolemy/Copernicus; modern physics, Archimedes/Galileo. Did Obama take any history courses at Occidental and Columbia? Or is this the revisionist history taught at institutions today?

P Law| 6.9.09 @ 12:11PM

Yes, I and my students have a good laugh at your expense whenever I specifically point out that we have intentionally forsaken the "cultivation of taste," as this is the aim of those who want to maintain an exploitative hierarchy that rationalizes proper content for legitimized forms. That reign is over, and it is not coming back; that racket humiliated too many people, and the younger generation senses that. They aren't being duped; they see through the sham. They see the implicit racism in hysterical denunciations of rap music. They reject the imperialist sanctimony that places Beethoven on the highest altar of reverence (while still listening to and enjoying his work). Shakespeare rejects your affected pleas to use his work as the means of forming aesthetic "judgment" (yes, I'm Shakespeare's P.R. guy), he just wants you to feel the effects of a high-flown royal melodrama coupled with lots "maiden-head" jokes; i.e., he snickers along with the groundlings. You missed the intellectual change-over, pal. However, we cordially invite you to join in our weird (maybe even queer, "Oh No!") future. Don't put your toe in the water, just jump in with all of your clothes on; it's liberating, I promise.

beluma| 6.9.09 @ 12:14PM

It is interesting that Scruton starts by denying that theory is possible in the humanities, only to do a quick aboutface in order to argue for the central place of 'judgment' (or theory) in these areas of human intellectual involvement.

Brian| 6.9.09 @ 12:22PM

Not a peep, of course, about the Christian students whose views must be flattered in science class. The biggest political victim class in this country, with all the attendant political correctness, is religion.
Why is it hard for folks like Scruton to understand that just because we don't agree with HIS judgements doesn't mean we don't agree with the concept of judgment or the idea that we must back our judgments up with arguments. He is on to something, of course, be he is as guilty of making it all political as the next person. There is an argument in this line to be made, but not sure if the American Spectator is the outlet to do it, as the sword cuts both ways.

jay| 6.9.09 @ 12:52PM

It seems that several here want to replace the perceived 'chaos' with 'God', which will supposely anchor it all.

But which 'God'? But which of the thousands of interpretations of 'God's' rules? Alas, everyone will certainly NOT agree to play by your particulare deity's arbitrary rules.

Religion avoids putting its claims to the test. You can overturn an established theory in science if you provide enough evidence but religion will not (because they cannot) put a falsifiable test on the line.

Where do people assume that classics, and pop culture are mutually exclusive? That a fondness for Maria Callas, Koko Taylor and Tom Waits are totally incompatible? That a person can't possibly appreciate both a 5 star meal and a chilli dog? And, for that matter that it really makes a difference in the world in the long run? It seems hidebound to say the least.

There are serious problems with education philosophy, and indeed standards have gone soft. I agree with Roger on that, but he's tilting at the wrong windmills.

Maen Sles | 6.9.09 @ 2:05PM

Interesting Read: the article and the comments.

My probably-flawed-judgment on Taste: The main reason behind the taste of the old differing from that of the young is the difference between the pace & granularity of the those times and these times. The old world was slow & simple and the taste-giver and the taster valued complexity, rigidity, stillness, depth and Yes-This-Is-It. The new world is fast & complex and, amidst all the digital distractions, they value simplicity, fluidity, stimulation, height and Maybe-This-Or-That.

A generalization,definitely, but you can always switch words with antonym-ing synonyms.

James Warner| 6.9.09 @ 2:23PM

One long value-sodden grumble that the current generation is not being socialized and indoctrinated into the same particular values that Scruton was socialized and indoctrinated into.

When he says: "The true conservative cause, when it comes to the universities, ought to be the restoration of judgment to its central place in the humanities" what he really means is the restoration of his particular values as the criteria on which to base all judgments.

What would no doubt be very instructive to students would be to be shown what particular value criteria are being met in the works of the music and literary canons (motifs, harmonies, themes, characterizations, complex motivations, etc.) And it might be instructive to Scruton to learn what value criteria are being met by the students' reading and playlists--without his denigrating the values they invoke as inferior to the values he invokes.

If he can show how his particular value set is superior to the value set of others without entering an infinite regress of value judgments, or an ultimately circular web of value judgments or an arbitrary foundational value fiat, then he might enlighten the world.

Peter| 6.9.09 @ 2:50PM

Pat - I think you missed the point of the article. Shakespeare and Tolstoy can help you to understand your fellow human beings and relate to them. The old and the cancer-stricken are not a "problem" to be solved. They are your fellow human beings and an understanding of them will most certainly help you to make decisions about their medical care.

Try reading some novels that describe the gradual losses and encroachments of old age. And stop whining. You live in the most prosperous society in history. One hundred years ago you wouldn't even be asking these questions. Your parents would be living with you and you would be caring for them in their old age. The "cost" of their last years would be borne by you and not shared with the rest of us.

DC| 6.9.09 @ 3:47PM

In my day, every well educated man (blah blah blah) classics and critical thought (blah blah blah) ... God in His Heaven.... until these young Marxists (blah blah blah) ... relativism and vulgarity... feminist agenda ... (whine whine whine) ... pop culture... (whine whine whine)... Obama is a socialist... fear for the future......zzzzzzz

Uh oh... I've read philosophy and the classics, studied Latin, genuflected to the Great White Fathers, read the Bible and obeyed my Lord - and still reject most of what you're peddling here. You're dead, you've lost, and you just don't know it yet. Some of you can write so gosh-darned fancy, and drop in so many polysyllabic words (so esoteric!), but the bottom line is that you pick on easy targets and overgeneralize about topics where you have no depth, relying on your trite clichés, then rush back into your hallowed myths about the good old days.

SF Professor| 6.9.09 @ 4:47PM

As someone who has taught SFSU college students for 25 years may I produce some reassuring evidence? If I were to bother to reason with my students about say, Pagliacci's worth, compared to DMX, they would feel compelled to recite the PC formulas the Bay Area raised them to recite. So I don't bother. I show them a great film of Pagliacci and let it defend itself in the marketplace, so to speak. Believe me, after "la commedia e finita," they sit there in shock. Act out Shakespeare for them, don't theorize about it, and it hits them the same way. The great works are, well, great. Sorry Mr. Scruton started with classical music. I admit it's more remote from them. But Michelangelo, Bernini, even Poussin still move them, let alone Delacroix and Bosch, whom they love. That's been my experience, and people at SFSU are from SF public schools, many of them speaking Spanish or Chinese at home. Make of these facts what you will, but they're facts. Hopeful ones, too.

UWisconsin Colleges Professor | 6.9.09 @ 5:40PM

I agree with SF Prof. For the last 15 years I've watched students become amazed by the relevance Plato's Republic has to their daily lives... all the while cultivating a sense of judgment.

Derrick| 6.9.09 @ 6:51PM

My theory is that as more information becomes available from external sources, there is an overall decrease in thoughts and opinions from within. It seems like many people substitute the opinion of external sources (namely, the media and internet) for their own. I'm not sure if it's due to a lack of ability to analyze, lack of time, lack of opportunity, or sheer laziness. I do see it as a disturbing trend though. Peaceful time alone with your own thoughts can produce amazing things. In this busy world, it's probably not something that naturally occurs for many.

Steve Meikle| 6.9.09 @ 7:26PM

The notion that the study and practice of the fine arts makes a person morally better (the implication of Mr Scruton's thought here) is absurd. Remember Hangman Heydrich: a fine classical musician who killed Jews for a living.

So all that remains in art is entertainment. That I am entertained by Bach Beethoven and Bruckner rather than some rapper or rock star does not change this. As for taste: there is no accounting for it. Youthful enjoyment is more honest than "adult" discrimination. I have seen much of the latter in my career as a classical musician. It is simply snobbery

By the way. If I want timeless verities I open my bible. My music is for fun and nothing more, even when i earn money playing it as a bass player. And am I so blind that i need Shakespeare to be told how to see or feel? Ridiculous!

Avery Andrews| 6.9.09 @ 8:05PM

Well put, SF Professor. But what are your learning objectives? No coherent learning objectives, no place in the modern University! The people pushing that stuff are much more dangerous the young ones, it seems to me.

michael| 6.9.09 @ 8:38PM

goodness me!
what an ants nest Scruton has stirred up; and what a range from loopy to logical. Free speech rules OK!

Steverino| 6.9.09 @ 9:41PM

If an article's greatness is based on the mostly excellent comments it generates, then this was a great article. If not for the comments though, it sucked mightily. But whenever I read someone talking about American students being "Marxists" I have to laugh. Hard.

D.D.Todd| 6.9.09 @ 10:23PM

Scruton, as is usual for him, gets things absolutely right. The comments are another matter altogether. Those that are not senile rants are adolescent rants.

Pingback| 6.9.09 @ 10:45PM

Roger Scruton In The American Spectator Via A & L Daily: Farewell To Judgment « Chris links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…under: Art, Current Events, Education, Literature, Music, Philosophy, Poetry, Public Debate, Science — chr1 @ 7:39 pm Tags: Education, Humanities, Roger Scruton, Sciences, The American Spectator Full article here: So what’s lacking in the humanities? Roger Scruton has some keen insights: “The works of Shakespeare contain important knowledge. But it is not scientific knowledge, nor could it ever be…

MoPC| 6.9.09 @ 11:02PM

I, too, would like an elaboration on how a restored appreciation for nonexistent Gods, or Gods whose status is indistinguishable from nonexistence, will help in the restoration of society's critical faculties.

charles grey| 6.10.09 @ 2:18AM

Hi, all. There's some overtly political stuff here at the top that will turn many of you off. If you can't take a little spirited debate, might as well bail now. Or you can skip to about the middle, where my comments become less incendiary, and deal more directly with the article's main points.

The conservative agenda has eviscerated the National Endowments for the Arts and the Humanities, and has culled Arts and Humanities from primary and secondary education, yet bemoans a younger generation bereft of sufficient fluency in the Arts and Humanities.

Conservative groups lead the charge to ban important works of literature in public schools. They constantly attack Public Television and Radio (where else on TV or radio can anyone hear classical music, see serious art, drama, literature, etc.?), then marvel that we have not been exposed to such things.

In large cities across the U.S., when budgets get tight and conservatives shout down proposed taxes on luxury items and corporations and pollution, the library branches in poor neighborhoods are some of the first services to be cut. But it is definitely the younger generation's

Conservatives fight to have religious dogma taught side-by-side with scientific theory, yet decry a generation of students imbued with intellectual relativism.

Conservatives continue to defend torture of alleged foreign terrorists, then applaud domestic terrorism against doctors performing legal medical procedures, but wonder about they're children's moral relativism.

Conservatives call President Obama a Socialist, a Fascist, a Muslim, and a 9/11 terrorist sympathizer, but worry about young people's grasp of history and politics.

Conservatives worship the unregulated free market, yet cry foul when it turns out that what is Popular (e.g. what the market deems worthy) dominates not only the cultural landscape, but the individual minds of a generation that has been incessantly target-marketed since birth.

And perhaps most puzzling, conservatives in this forum speak of the need for judgement, and in the same breath invoke their Christianity as a good solid basis for it. "Judge not lest ye be judged" sound familiar to anyone?

Political, moral, ethical, and economic contradictions in conservative reasoning aside, however, the worst mistake (and it is a woeful one) in this article, and in many of the comments, is that of conflation:
conflation of judgement with taste; of moral judgement with critical judgement; of judgement with prejudice; of all classical culture into one lump category; of 'modern' with 'contemporary' with 'pop'; of art with quality art; of 'art with which I am familiar' with 'all art.'

In other words, what is (mostly) lacking here is an exercise in the very judgement (critical, not moral) the author calls for, replaced instead with a series of categorical judgements (of morality and/or taste) that nearly all smack of ignorance.

And when I say ignorance, I simply mean lack of familiarity. So let me correct a few misconceptions.

Marxists do not rule the University system in the US. This notion is laughable. The administrators of nearly every college in the country are now, and have been for decades, culled from the world of business, not the world of liberal arts. They are boosters of funds and enrollment, not of feminist critique. As for college professors, it is true that many of them recycle, and most would like the government to stay out of their bedrooms and uteruses (oddly, this is a reactionary, libertarian stance, not a lefty one), and some even know a thing or two about post-structuralism. But most of them have big houses with security systems and wide chemically-enhanced lawns, lots of kids who all play sports, multiple (non-hybrid) cars, don't know any black people, and just want to live quiet lives in the suburbs without being bothered by crime or poverty or disease or any of that. In other words, they're Conservatives. I went to NYU, University of the Arts, and (gasp) UC Davis, and I did not encounter one true liberal amongst faculty or administration. Not one who voted any further left than Democrat. I suspect, neither have you.

Contemporary curricula that highlight identity politics, feminist theory, cultural anthropology, post-structuralism, et al are saying only this: "Hey! Check it out. There's some really great stuff that isn't in the traditional European canon. Let's see what it has to offer. And also, let's engage in some critical thinking about it, especially in relation (contrast?) to the traditional western canon." That's all. Get over it. There shouldn't be anything threatening about people admitting more sources and perspectives, especially when they're doing it within the very narrow confines of a system well-designed to keep academics out of the marketplace.

Not all young people are privileged. Yes, the white children of financially successful Boomers are the most spoiled, safe, insulated, best-educated (ahem) middle class people in the history of the world. But, believe it or not, there are poor people. You know, the (mostly brown-skinned) ones you only ever see on the local news, and only then if one has committed some crime that reinforces your fear and ignorance of all of them. The ones who live in a wasteland, but wouldn't know T.S. Eliot from that kid in E.T. Not one person above has mentioned poor people. Not really. You're debating the relative aesthetic and critical judgement of the few people who are privileged enough to receive the best education the US has to offer, while leaving those who need education the most entirely out of the conversation.

College is too late. Read some contemporary neuroscience. You want youth to develop critical judgement, take your PhD and go teach middle school, instead of hiding in a cush university professorship and complaining about the level of student that makes it to your class. Imagine how badly the kids who never make it to your class need you.

Not all young people like the same stuff, or do the same things, or feel the same way. Any statement that begins "The younger generation is..." is bogus right from the start. Same goes for old-heads. Ozzy Osbourne. David Bowie. Robert Plant. All in their sixties. Why do older people always blame kids for heavy metal? You invented it. Even the first generation of rappers is pushing fifty now. Young people stop thinking old people are uncool as soon as they discover classic rock. But old people seem to keep thinking young people are all ingrates no matter what. What gives?

It is perfectly obvious that few of the people here touting classical music and eschewing all pop music have anything more than a cursory knowledge of pop music. Not the least because most of you lump it all together. You're also very quick to compare the very best of classical with the very worst of contemporary. If you want any young person unfamiliar with your favorite music to take you seriously, then you've got to take his music seriously. It's not a matter of indulging young people's tastes, it's a matter of being in the same room together. If you haven't even tried to see why you can learn just as much about the math of music from Skinny Puppy or Brian Eno as you can from Mozart or Bach, you're dead in the water. If you aren't willing to give a serious listen to Michael Jackson's 'Thriller', or The Cure's 'Disintegration', or Radiohead's 'Kid A,' or Jay Z's 'The Black Album,' or Johanna Newsom's 'Milk-Eyed Mender,' then why oh why oh why would you expect them to give a chance to The Eroica or La Traviata? Do you know thing one about the cultural significance, historical context, or aesthetic principles around Susan Lori Parks or Charlie Kauffman or David Lynch? Then why should they care about Shakespeare?

My overall point here is that critical judgement, which the author rightly identifies as a crucial element of education, consists in knowledge, consideration, and decision-making that can only derive from FAMILIARITY. This is true of art, of literature, of science, and of people.

And if you cannot teach these things, whatever your subject matter is, you are not worth your salt as an educator.
And if you have not familiarized yourself with an art-form, a genre, or a group of people, then you have no grounds to dismiss it, save your own narrow, prejudicial vanity.

Pingback| 6.10.09 @ 3:02AM

Arts & Letters Daily (09 Jun 2009) | New World News links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…bolt without stripping its threads… more The real purpose of universities is not to flatter the tastes of those who arrive there, but to present them with a rite of passage into something better… more Share and Enjoy: This entry was posted on Wednesday, June 10th, 2009 at 07:00 and is filed under News. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can skip to the end and leave a…

Greg| 6.10.09 @ 4:51AM

Interesting letter - much to contemplate. Alas, in the last two paragraphs, by resorting to political discourse, the writer revealed himself as a victim of all that he impeaches. Of course, the important issues that the author raises are not political in the least. To close the letter with such heavy-handed labels and categorizations as liberal and conservative suggests that the himself has been trapped by his own uncritical education and upbringing, or maybe he merely tired himself out from the effort of writing so many words. Ultimately, the letter is trite. The issues identified are well known, and the solution is nothing but an ignorant diatribe. Sad.

Pingback| 6.10.09 @ 8:36AM

Recomendados #6 | destruição criativa links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

Recomendados #6 | destruição criativa voltar a ruipassosrocha.info Your tagline goes here Texto 10 / Junho / 2009 Leituras Lisa Ling, Miguel Madeira, Roger Scruton Sem comentários Recomendados #6 Farewell to judgment | Roger Scruton Illusions of identity | Kenan Malik Iran’s Potemkin election | Con Coughlin Um disparate? | Miguel Madeira God is back | John Micklethwait e Adrian Wooldridge Mortal remains |…

JG| 6.10.09 @ 10:09AM

There is much to be learned from the past, and an avoidance of it leads to stagnation.

Take the rise of the electric guitar player as an example. From the beginning of what would be considered the blues, guitar players learned from those that went before and added to the vocabulary to progress to the next step . BB King learned from the non-electric Delta Blues players, took from them what he found interesting and created a new style, Eric Clapton/Hendrix etc took from BB and others what they found interesting and developed a new style, Eddie Van Halen learned every lick Clapton played added to it and again a new style was born.

Living in the past stagnates you in the past, learning from the past leads you to create new things and ultimately advance society.

Studying the classics whether they be music, art, or literature, leads you to a place where you will learn what others lives were about not just listening to the notes.

Art is a reflection of a time in a society. Look at the sixties music. Hardly any 2 musical groups were alike, people took chances. Today they truly all sound and look alike, everyone plays it safe, and that to me is the saddest of all.

Jamie| 6.11.09 @ 4:11PM

honestly, all you old codgers can boo-hoo all day about the fact that we young people don't care about Mozart, but it doesn't make Mozart "better" than anything else I chose to listen to. I know that YOU really consider the playing out of melodic patterns within an extremely strict harmonic and timbral framework to be the end all and be all of music, but for anyone who has let themselves be affected by the much larger and more advanced musical concepts of the last several hundred years (not to mention the several hundred other interesting music cultures in this world) it can be incredibly boring. I know, I know, music has never been able to best the incredible accomplishment of resolving a VII chord into one of a handful of acceptable cadences, but some of us are actually interested in other things music can do now. The great thing about pop music is that, as one commenter lamented, it's actually more about bringing people together than it is about some egotistical old coot being hailed as a genius for incorporating some folk song into a boring hour long pisstake on the 5 note melody it's based on. I for one, like the grossly expanded (and ever expanding) palette of sounds that humans have used to express the musical urge, which some of us shockingly like to mix with, GASP, dancing and enjoying ourselves. If only we could see that the only *real way to enjoy music is to sit in an uncomfortable chair and get off on how smart you must be for listening to music that is so much better than what those dumb kids listen to.

The reason your dream will never come true is the same reason that people won't start learning latin en masse. It's based on the sad fantasies of a man clearly out of touch with the world. Enjoy your golden years, and go see as much publicly funded "good art" as possible before you go because the younger generations are doing just fine treating classical music as the museum piece that it is, and we will keep doing so long after all the voices saying "no, stop, you're not as good as we were!" have faded into the dark twilight.

Jamie| 6.11.09 @ 4:24PM

Also, JG, can you please try to mask your obvious "what I liked when I was a kid is good, what kids like now is all crap" condescending bullshit a bit better?

You don't, and I repeat don't have any idea what everyone is doing in music today. In the 60's rock world there were about a dozen different sounding bands and about a million copycats, today there are well over a dozen distinct genres of music just within western pop alone, and hundreds of extremely original artists making things that are as distinct, studied, and mature as what Clapton was doing in the 60's.

If you think that animal collective sounds more like MIA than the byrds sounded like the kinks, you're in no position to tell anyone anything about music. It seems way more likely that you've heard a few bands your kid is into and have decided that this represents all of modern music. Congrats JG, you're completely full of shit, how does it feel?

Pingback| 6.12.09 @ 8:42AM

Sarah Et Cetera » Free for All Friday 25 links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…sardines with the heads still attached, we make up in chocolate milk. Your brain is playing at least 12 tricks on you. Possibly more. And maybe all at once. Or not. Maybe this is a trick. Look out! Farewell to Judgement. What’s left when everything is just as good as everything else? Taste and judgment are faculties that we develop: they form part of the great transition from youthful enjoyment to adult…

Pingback| 6.12.09 @ 12:13PM

The University. The Presidency. Whence judgement? « The Javelineer links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

The Javelineer Abusus non tollit usum. The University. The Presidency. Whence judgement? 12 June 2009 In The American Spectator, Roger Scruton writes against the pagan youth worship that is the modern university. The true conservative cause, when it comes to the universities, ought to be the restoration of judgment to its central place in the humanities. And that shows how difficult a task the recapture…

Robert Davidson | 6.12.09 @ 6:50PM

To dismiss all popular music in this simplistic way is to betray an ignorance as deep as that being decried. Björk, Radiohead, Bowie, Dylan banal and inartistic? Not if you have your ears and minds open, and stop approaching things from the perspective of score-based music.

Pingback| 6.12.09 @ 8:46PM

Three Thoughts 11.2 « The Far Country links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…Subjects like English and art history grew from the desire to teach young people how to discriminate art from effect, beauty from kitsch, and real from phony sentiment.” -Roger Scruton, “ Fareweill to Judgment “ I’m not sure I agree with Scruton’s argument/article in its entirety (I get a little taste of sour grapes when he mentions his teaching experience in a philosophy of music…

Pingback| 6.14.09 @ 7:05AM

Arts & Letters Daily (09 Jun 2009) | Design Website links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…bolt without stripping its threads… more The real purpose of universities is not to flatter the tastes of those who arrive there, but to present them with a rite of passage into something better… more Comments are closed. A weekend RSS feed Tags Categories All The Good Stuff Blogroll Design Website Plugins Register Domains Support Forum Themes…

Sue | 6.16.09 @ 1:03AM

The trouble is is that the world-view that Roger and the Spectator subscribe to and loudly champion (although they may pretend otherwise) is itself the problem. And no amount of seemingly erudite word-smithing will or can make the slightest bit of difference.

These two related images sum up in stark terms exactly what this world view is.

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~library/Orozco/panel14.html

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~library/Orozco/panel17.html

V.B.| 6.17.09 @ 2:09PM

A friend recommended I read this article. The first thing I saw was a note from Ben Stein and I stopped reading there. I find it ironic that a commentary about judgment has a preface by someone who severely lacks aforementioned attribute.

Pingback| 6.17.09 @ 9:00PM

Farewell to Judgment | Pensas links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

Philosophy: Schools Admin RSS Subscribe: RSS feed Pensas A collection of links pertaining to the thinking arts. Farewell to Judgment Posted on June 17th, 2009 at 5:00 pm by 0 Judgment in education has been lacking, to put it kindly, according to Roger Scruton of The American Spectator. Be the first to start a conversation Click here to cancel reply. Leave a Reply Name * Mail * Website Meta Log in…

Pingback| 6.18.09 @ 5:00AM

(Presa internaţională) Moartea spiritului critic / despre rolul ştiinţelor umaniste î links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…spiritului critic / despre rolul ştiinţelor umaniste în universitatea modernă June 18th, 2009 „Materii precum literatura engleză şi istoria artei”, scrie filosoful britanic Roger Scruton într-un articol din „ The American Spectator “, „s-au dezvoltat din dorinţa de a îi învăţa pe cei tineri cum să deosebeşti arta de impresie, frumuseţea de kitsch şi sentimentul adevărat de cel fals. Această abilitate…

Matt Cardin | 6.20.09 @ 9:25AM

Scruton's essay makes for valuable reading and reflection.

As quite a few people here have already noted, so do the comments, one reason being that so many of the dissenting ones -- the ones that disagree vehemently, mildly, partially, or wholly with Scruton's argument -- are so shallow and ill-targeted. Something like three-fourths of the commenters take Scruton to task for things he clearly, manifestly, and patently addressed head-on in his essay -- and yet they don't acknowledge this fact. They wager their case on a single point and then act like he clearly didn't think of it, even though it's right there in his main argument or qualifying comments.

Either that, or they strike out in completely arbitrary directions, ignoring altogether what Scruton has said, as if forgetting that the man has made substantive claims that deserve to be addressed instead of sidestepped. It’s as if these individuals want to talk about the general subject of the essay, but they just don’t want to be bothered by the fact that there’s already an argument on the table that begs discussion.

This is no way to conduct a real conversation.

That said, it's still an interesting exchange, and I'm quite impressed by the remaining one-fourth of the comments.

I happen to agree with Scruton on the whole, by the way, and I say that as somebody who taught high school English for six years and then moved last year to teaching at the college level. Moreover, I spent 11 intermittent years in university settings earning my degrees, culminating in 2003, so I'm looking at the issue from the point of view of both a recent student and a current teacher in America's higher education setting, and my experiences and reflections have led me to many of the same conclusions that Scruton exposits so well.

The fact that laments by the older generation about the state of the younger generation have a long pedigree, as some commenters have pointed out, is immaterial. So is the fact that Shakespeare etc. were popular entertainment and not “high art” in their day. So is the fact that the attitude toward education may have been different in ancient Athens and elsewhere. As Scruton directly points out – and this is one of those things that some of the commenters have conveniently ignored – the use of universities as, in effect, moral development machines that help to elevate taste and judgment via deep grapplings with what Matthew Arnold called “the best that has been thought and said,” really didn’t come into its own until the 18th century. And this is tied intimately, inextricably, profoundly, to the rise of the modern democratic nation-state – as in the United States – in which the general moral and intellectual character of the populace is so directly and enormously germane to the continued life and viability of republic. The widespread inculcation of literacy, not just in the sense of teaching people to read and write but in the sense of imparting a genuine working knowledge of, and facility with, and cultivated attitude toward, important texts and ideas is singularly important in a nation that was deliberately and rationally created according to a set of philosophical ideals. The proper working of a social-political-cultural situation like this one presupposes something like the ability and willingness to render the type of judgment (between high and low, good ideas and bad, etc.) that Scruton is talking about.

And despite the heartening stories about young people who are finding much to be excited about in Plato and so on, the overall cultural trajectory is obviously and definitely in the direction of a philosophical, moral, and ideological free-for-all in which, as Sebastian noted above, the world has received its first fully and forcefully articulated “principled argument against learning from the past,” which indicates not just apathy toward the cultivation of discriminating taste and judgment but outright hostility toward it.

This is concerning, and I, for one, find Scruton’s exploration and analysis to be a valuable addition to the necessary conversation.

tms| 6.22.09 @ 1:54PM

Excellent article, and very well stated. The many acid comments show just how anxious (childish) people are to defend the debased form of higher education that has dominated the scene for the past few generations.

jay fraser| 6.22.09 @ 11:52PM

The response and rigor of those engaged in college teaching simply reveals the lack of experience and knowledge of the poor, old nay-sayers who cherish the already-canonized at the expense of anything new and creative. They've learned nothing, apparently, since their liberal arts training in the 1950's. Really, I find T.S. Eliot a bore and the New Critics long gone. Some things remain...the great ones...the rest dissolves in history. But why torment universities and turn them into business enterprises if you expect them to educate the young? And why ignore the youths'enthusiasms if you expect to communicate with them? All this diatribe just paints you into your own corner with your own crowd. Why not learn a little from those who disagree with you? Charles Grey and Jamie make the case against you conservatives: why don't you take a look at the things they can teach you?
Some people think their B.A. is frozen in time...and apparently their minds along with those old degrees. Do some catch-up: you'll find interesting things in this modern world.
Sincerely,
An old Ph.D. in English who is now 78 years old and who specialized in Chaucer and Shakespeare

Benjamin Price | 7.17.09 @ 1:57PM

If you liked this article, check out our interview with Scruton: http://www.clarionreview.org/main/article.php?article_id=32

Pingback| 8.13.09 @ 11:00PM

From The Chronicle Of Higher Ed Via A & L Daily: “Myths Or Facts In Feminist Scholars links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…no longer free) As the A & L daily notes, that’s Nancy K.D. Lemon vs Christina Hoff Sommers. Sommers started the criticism here. I think one piece of the puzzle is Roger Scruton’s argument here, which suggests a failure to keep aesthetic judgment apart from political judgment in the humanities…: “And since there is no cogent justification for women’s studies that does not dwell upon the…

James Taylor| 8.19.09 @ 1:48AM

Sommers started the criticism here.
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David| 7.29.10 @ 8:30AM

Despite the heartening stories about young people who are finding much to be excited about in Plato and so on, the overall cultural trajectory is obviously and definitely in the direction of a philosophical, moral, and ideological free-for-all in which, as Sebastian noted above, the world has received its first fully and forcefully articulated “principled argument against learning from the past,” which indicates not just apathy toward the cultivation of discriminating taste and judgment but outright hostility toward it.
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Jon | 9.7.09 @ 11:51AM

How can you respond in depth to the last article without understanding the last statement and the need to challnege the zeitgiest of relativity.

Because there is a better and a worse in this world.

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public record | 10.30.09 @ 5:30AM

Good article with sincere opinion! I agree with Roger!
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LibraryApp | 10.30.09 @ 6:21AM

This is a good reading for some conventional notions of differentiating between the subjects of science and hunanities and there respective roles.

Jon| 11.3.09 @ 5:19AM

The differentiation between science (hard knowledge) and humanities (opinion) is a dangerous and very minimalistic one.

The view is built one the foundations of naturalism and rationalism, which if took to the logical conclusion dent the truth of love, colour, emotions, feeling, art and beauty.

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conference phones | 11.5.09 @ 7:59AM

Good article with sincere opinion! But what are your learning objectives? No coherent learning objectives, no place in the modern University! The people pushing that stuff are much more dangerous the young ones, it seems to me.

gadgets | 11.26.09 @ 3:36AM

I like this article very much, you are right, Judgmental will never works.

Sci Fi Forum | 12.1.09 @ 3:20PM

Many times the thought of our existence is too much for some to put into perspective. Instead, they act like sheep that want to follow instead of lead. It's because of those people that society is structured the way it is today. Personally, I'm glad since that provides opportunity to "get ahead" since most people are too lazy to put in the hard work needed to get ahead.

fatburningfurnace review | 12.9.09 @ 4:45AM

Sad to know that As universities expanded, the humanities began to displace the sciences from the curriculum.

CJ| 12.14.09 @ 4:04PM

Thanks for the great post. I think that CMJ Stock Photography and CMJ Stock are great. He has great photos and is only 14 so I think that his judgment is fine.

Jim Roberts| 12.18.09 @ 5:27AM

Akan| 12.22.09 @ 2:34PM

Well i think that the art is a reflection of a time in a society. Look at the sixties music. Hardly any 2 musical groups were alike, people took chances. Today they truly all sound and look alike, everyone plays it safe, and that to me is the saddest of all.
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Tony Gray| 12.24.09 @ 9:17PM

As universities expanded, the humanities began to displace the sciences from the curriculum.
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Jason White | 12.29.09 @ 9:46AM

I believe, is the key to understanding their musical taste. The songs, styles, and groups that appeal to modern adolescents are invitations to join the gang.
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Lowryder #2 Seeds | 1.1.10 @ 4:42AM

A very thought provoking read, thanks for sharing.

All the best for 2010.

James| 1.4.10 @ 2:53AM

Well i think that since there is no cogent justification for women’s studies that does not dwell upon the subject’s ideological purpose, the entire curriculum in the humanities began to be seen in ideological terms. The inevitable result was the delegitimizing of English.
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Richard| 1.4.10 @ 8:23PM

The phenomenon that is addressed here goes back a long way, before the boomers even. The fairly new factor is that the societal institutions that should stand against it have thrown in with the enemy. Parents who care about this need to find or create alternative institutions based on sound principles.

-Richard
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Andriana| 1.5.10 @ 10:04AM

Well i think that Students wished to use their time at university to cultivate their leisure interests and to improve their souls, rather than to learn hard facts and complex theories.
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Danny | 1.7.10 @ 6:00AM

I recently had the experience of teaching a course on the philosophy of music to young people in a British university, and was acutely aware at every moment of the resentment that now greets any criticism of pop.

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Michaels Shopping Advice To Grasp While You Are Buying Storm Doors - The Blog Planet links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…-Scare: Why You Should Boycott Build-A-Bear - Big … Australians for Australian books at Larvatus Prodeo Twentysomething: Why it's smart to quit a job after just two weeks … The American Spectator : Farewell to Judgment Pajamas Media » Media Stunned as ObamaCare Unravels Digg it Add to del.icio.us Reddit Stumble 0 Comment Leave a Reply Name (required) Mail (will not be published) (required) Website…

Akan| 1.11.10 @ 2:13AM

Well i think that The central discipline of a subject like English was criticism, and you taught criticism by getting students to raise questions about their own and others’ emotions, and by exploring the ways in which literature can both ennoble and demean the human condition.

FatBurningFurnace | 1.12.10 @ 2:31AM

When judgment is marginalized or forbidden nothing remains save politics.

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Susian| 1.13.10 @ 3:44PM

Well i think that Conservatives often complain about the politicization of the universities, and about the fact that only liberal views are propagated or even tolerated on campus. But they fail to see the true cause of this, which is the internal collapse of the humanities.
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Kevin| 1.14.10 @ 2:17PM

Nice article. I recently had the experience of teaching a course on the philosophy of music to young people in a British university, and was acutely aware at every moment of the resentment that now greets any criticism of pop.
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fatburningfurnace | 1.16.10 @ 1:24PM

Shakespeare doesn’t teach us what to believe: he shows us how to feel—case by case, person by person, mood by mood.

Chris| 1.21.10 @ 3:41PM

Great article, i'm not sure how factually correct it is but I do agree with the point your making.

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Well i think that the true conservative cause, when it comes to the universities, ought to be the restoration of judgment to its central place in the humanities. And that shows how difficult a task the recapture of the universities will be.
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Maritime Law| 2.9.10 @ 3:22AM

Well i believe that when they emerged as university disciplines they were inseparable from the cultivation of taste. You taught these subjects by way of introducing students to the great works of our civilization
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It is no derisory juncture to me that they have, when promised a vivid likely by the particular wordsmiths, react screen the vote that reflects idealism again not reality. neighboring whole-hog they are juvenile. Those of us who are wanting power the tooth had fitter negotiate that they, warts again all, are the ones that consign finance us consequence our old age.
They, owing to we also whole know, bequeath suffer the follies of boy. Luckily they and swear by the resilience of through supple; they (again us) consign concupiscence that resilience as the might of our avow failings leave bound vastly heavily on them.
When you opine of the tot you disclose of yourselves; they did not occur sympathy because since sprouts from the consideration. If you sign not "share the blame" you had more select not complain to burdensome about having to reinforcing your legal tender.

Mary Gutierez| 2.16.10 @ 4:35AM

impressive memorandum - exceptionally to excogitate. Alas, juice the linger two paragraphs, by resorting to political discourse, the writer clear himself due to a innocent of uncondensed that he impeaches. Of course, the chief issues that the end raises are not political consequence the opening. To reach the letter shield allying heavy-handed labels further categorizations due to considerate further conservative suggests that the himself has been trapped by his own supererogatory dogma besides upbringing, or maybe he merely worn-out himself outer from the aim of writing thence teeming speech. Ultimately, the note is irksome. The issues identified are truly known, and the plan is nil but an uncultured diatribe
. marred
.

Donald M. Brooks| 2.16.10 @ 8:12AM

Why don't the half-formed catch from the deed of the terminated is an intergenerational interrogate asked across the ages. When the account says, "people of my begetting were taught..." What begetting is this? absolutely not the baby adorn siring. owing to never was a soul mate less inclined to embrace the familiarity of those who had unzipped before than the Boomers. Nor was finished powerful
a siring disguise less know-how to commit unpunctual. They/We will story from the creation growth unmissed again unmourned.

Mary Murphy| 2.17.10 @ 11:23AM

contrasted things.

Not assured how this motion in, but we opine to commemorate the relatively raw issue of the infant. Kids who are 15-21 WEREN'T clear offspring thus immensely until about becoming before WWII. "Puberty" is a relatively growing invention - chiefly by rich interests of whole enchilada sorts from wisdom to pop-culture centered businesses.

Kids aspiration to efficient monopoly an spicy macrocosm famously sooner than we plan them to. The ones that bring off are agility
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Thomas Ramos| 2.18.10 @ 11:03PM

really put, SF Professor. But what are your earful objectives? No coherent scoop objectives, no institute supremacy the final University! The people pushing that impetus are by much supplementary
formidable the unseasoned ones, real seems to me.

Kate| 2.18.10 @ 11:18PM

Well We were taught to study literature in order to sympathize with life in all its forms. It doesn’t matter, we were told, if Shakespeare’s political assumptions do not coincide with ours.

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James| 2.19.10 @ 4:34AM

This is really interesting. I'm not sure if the youth of today would bother reading them either.

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Mike| 2.19.10 @ 4:35AM

Agreed.. the point could be argued either way but on the whole I agree.
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Andre Smith| 2.23.10 @ 12:57PM

Why don't the juvenile learn from the act of the terminated is an intergenerational pump asked across the ages. When the purpose says, "people of my reproduction were taught..." What generation is this? absolutely not the juvenile raise siring. for never was a bedfellow less disposed to hold the contact of those who had flustered before than the Boomers. Nor was polished acutely a generation adumbrate less evidence to consign overdue. They/We leave occasion from the cosmos
proceeding un-missed and un-mourned.

To Potty Train A Toddler | 2.23.10 @ 11:37PM

great post glad I dug around and found it!

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Jim| 2.24.10 @ 9:36AM

I don't think the younger generation will appreciate this great post tho thanks!!xx
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Paul| 2.24.10 @ 9:46AM

Yeh its really refreshing to hear this stuff sometimes thanks so much art

David| 2.24.10 @ 9:52AM

I definitely think it is a reflection of the time in society how things are changing design
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Andy| 3.29.10 @ 1:00AM

We invoke democratization, but is it a utopia? Since we can not afford to do anything, the values of technology and human cultures disagree, whats the points?. Do we want to support faculty research leaves, education initiatives and social experiments, or the technological revolution in our resources? Do we fund development of collection and acquisition of new forms of knowledge or the cost of on-line what we already know and have?

poptropica | 4.9.10 @ 8:07PM

I’ll have a Poptropica full written walkthrough very soon, but in the meantime, here are some answers to some of the frequently asked questions about Mythology Island. Having trouble? Post a question in the comments and I’ll try to answer it!
Getting Hercules to Help You Poptropica

Hercules won’t help you until you have all five items from Zeus’ quest. Once you have the five items, bring them to Athena. Zeus will appear and steal them. The big jerk! Once this happens, talk to Athena and she will tell you that Hercules will help you. You’ll need to have the magic mirror from Aphrodite because Hercules doesn’t want to have to walk. He’s so lazy!
Getting the Hydra Scale poptropica

You can see how to do this in the videos, but basically you need to jump up when the Hydra is about to strike. He will rear one of his heads back to attack and his eyes will bulge out. poptropica
When this happens, jump up in the air and then try to land on top of his head. That head will get knocked out. When all five heads get knocked out, the Hydra will be asleep and you can click on him to get one of the scales. poptropica
I’ll have a full written walkthrough very soon, but in the meantime, here are some answers to some of the frequently asked questions about Mythology Island. Having trouble? Post a question in the comments and I’ll try to answer it!poptropica

Getting Hercules to Help You

Hercules won’t help you until you have all five items from Zeus’ quest. poptropica
Once you have the five items, bring them to Athena. Zeus will appear and steal them. The big jerk! Once this happens, talk to Athena and she will tell you that Hercules will help you.poptropica
. You’ll need to have the magic mirror from Aphrodite because Hercules doesn’t want to have to walk. He’s so lazy!
Getting the Hydra Scale

You can see how to do this in the videos, but basically you need to jump up when the Hydra is about to strike. He will rear one of his heads back to attack and his eyes will bulge out.Poptropica When this happens, jump up in the air and then try to land on top of his head. That head will get knocked out. When all five heads get knocked out, the Hydra will be asleep and you can click on him to get one of the scales. poptropica

Jayce Nugent | 5.4.10 @ 6:06PM

Having no education in the humanities, they have no connection to humanity. They've been raised in a world that puffed up their self-esteem without justification, and made them totally self-involved and self-absorbed, and they truly resent the existence of the mean old fuddy-duddy people who didn't make the world a paradise and don't have the decency to die young. Lacking any connection to the past, to humanity itself, they imagine that the world actually WAS a paradise until mommy and daddy came along and ruined it. Without education, they don't realize and can't believe that the world today is a better place than it used to be. They just know that if their cell phone stops working it must be reviews
and replaced immediately, because life without it would be unthinkable.

Paul | 5.5.10 @ 4:40AM

What of these so called degrees in 'golf course studies', ' relaxtion' and other Micky Mouse titles? If the increase in UK tuition fees has any positive effect it may be to focus students attention on why they are going to university, why the are studying and what they are likely to get from this.

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James | 5.5.10 @ 5:14AM

I agree Paul. I think UK education will go full circle and perhaps gaining a degree will start to have some value again rather than being a given for anyone willing to study any subject at any college.

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Mac | 5.5.10 @ 5:58AM

Surely though the rise and further rise of tuition fees is going to exclude a huge number of potential students many of whom have been academic acheivers? It's said that fees may go to £14K ,over three plus cost of living, how much are graduates going to need to earn to justify this?

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obstructive sleep apnea | 5.7.10 @ 5:46AM

I agree... No coherent scoop objectives, no institute supremacy the final University! well written by comment Number 7

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It's an interesting approach. I commonly see unexceptional views on the subject but yours it's written in a pretty unusual fashion. Surely, I will revisit your website for additional info.

Chris Cooper| 10.25.10 @ 12:29PM

I think there still are human universals, which remain constant from age to age. In the world of modern radiators this is still true.

Greggory| 11.4.10 @ 1:47AM

Students wished to use their time at university to cultivate their leisure interests and to improve their souls, rather than to learn hard facts and complex theories. - Very true Handyman Logo

tony electric shaver cigo | 11.6.10 @ 6:27PM

They really need to do away with mickey mouse degrees which are a waste of time and a pure money making opportunity by unis.

Michael Johnas| 11.7.10 @ 4:10PM

interesting post and thanks for sharing. Some things in here I have not thought about before.Thanks for making such a cool post which is really very well written.will be referring a lot of friends

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Patipax| 11.20.10 @ 9:03AM

Hi everyone, as it happens the student fees are about to go up. I think fewer students will do humanities and more will opt for business or science related subjects - market driven learing&teaching; is on its way! Canvas Prints

Julia perez| 11.21.10 @ 6:05AM

The word self-esteem implies a judgment we have about ourselves. The word low expresses the result of that judging process. When our self-esteem is low, we judge ourselves to be not good enough.cheap wetsuits

משפטים יפים | 11.22.10 @ 10:33AM

in the form of Abu Hussein from Kenya, our Community Organizer-in-Chief with his ACORN brownshirts leading us to the blessings of socialism.
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Daniel| 12.1.10 @ 10:11PM

I think saying farewell to judgment is a little much, we might have lost a few things in this generation. But most people have held on to there judgment.

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Fmcg jobs | 12.2.10 @ 8:38AM

Held on to judgement but lost THEIR spelling ability
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Luke | 12.7.10 @ 3:00AM

I'd recommend reading ' The God Delusion' - an excellent book

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Well We were taught to study literature in order to sympathize with life in all its forms. It doesn’t matter, we were told, if Shakespeare’s political assumptions do not coincide with ours.

Conveyancing quote | 1.5.11 @ 5:56PM

It is natural for an older generation to criticise the nextgeneration, whatever form that criticism may take. It is down to the parents and gaurdians to try to educate and influence the next generation to make wise and courageous choices.

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Potty Train | 2.15.11 @ 4:49PM

Although the humanities are an abstract field, nonetheless they offer an insightful record into our history as a culture.

Options Trading Strategy | 2.15.11 @ 5:29PM

I agree that there is more value to an education than just learning to create an income.

simon joe| 2.18.11 @ 5:06AM

"Don't know much about history; don't know much about biology..."

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laptop screen repair | 3.5.11 @ 8:01PM

Humanities seem to be a dead art.

ebay shop design | 3.7.11 @ 11:40AM

Humanities are dead and buried long live the Sciences after all science is always right isnt it ?

jennifar | 4.6.11 @ 1:51PM

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www.insure4all.co.uk | 4.22.11 @ 7:36AM

I can honestly say the older generation are just making it up as they go along. We need the younger generation to carry the legacy forward. I assure you they are mistaken.

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I agree with some of the other comments, Humanities seems to be a dying art.

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Im glad to have found this post as its such an interesting one! I am always on the lookout for quality posts and articles so i suppose im lucky to have found this!

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Mike | 5.27.11 @ 10:33AM

The problem is people just don't care today. Noone appreciates the classics and the humanities are a dying art.

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Joel | 5.31.11 @ 1:14PM

I believe Style Wars is the best documentary ever about Art and Politics. It documents New York City's war against graffiti in the early 1980's - but mostly from the graffiti writers' perspective! Of course there was great graffiti art on the trains then, but what is interesting is that it was mostly kids doing art for... free! But the city's reaction and the world's reaction is truly classic. This documentary gives you so much to think about on so many levels I don't think there is a better art documentary made in the 20th century.
Here's the link to the site, http://www.stylewars.com and here's a link to the full movie for free... http://stylewars.com/index.php?page=video

Jim | 6.17.11 @ 5:39PM

As always, excellent writing Roger.

Potty Training Toddlers | 7.25.11 @ 2:34PM

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Staffordshire Bull Terrier | 7.25.11 @ 2:36PM

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DavidWB | 12.13.11 @ 9:40AM

Youth Always Know Best!

JonB | 12.13.11 @ 9:41AM

Great post

Jenny| 12.9.12 @ 5:51AM

After the heartening stories we can learn from the past which indicates not just apathy toward the cultivation of discriminating taste and judgment but outright hostility toward it.
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