The American Spectator

Larry Abney| 4.8.09 @ 7:13AM

To David Matthew:

I read your review of Christians and fail to see any love anywhere in it.

stu.b.con| 4.8.09 @ 7:32AM

fortunately we know there's a place for lil davey matthews in our religion...it's called hell.
You really are a simpleton

Susan Gill| 4.8.09 @ 7:39AM

Responding to Mr. Mathews commentary, I want to point out that his perspective is entirely beside the point. Every time a journal indicates how liberals patronize Islam, there is always someone commenting that Christians are "warmongering" and bring up the requisite, "judge not, lest you be judged" cherry. What is being misinterpreted here is the entire relevancy of the "American Spectator's" point of view in the article: that the United States of America was engendered by a Christian world view and that despite the occasional less-than-perfect proponents of that world view, it has served our country and her people well. A lesson in American history will teach this implicity. President Obama and the leftists now in power, seek without question ,to destroy the traditional America . They seek to destroy it because they despise it, and they despise it because it does not serve their purpose. So they elevate the enemy and make it seem irrelevant, when all the while the seeds of our destruction as a people are being watered and fertilized with a virulent hate. It was in C.S. Lewis's Screwtape Letters, I believe, that the devil made clear that he had no wish for man to believe in him and that it was best to keep man "in the dark." In this way, through ignorance, the workings of the "enemy" are given the freedom to spread without any interference .

Brubaker| 4.8.09 @ 7:49AM

David Mathews,

Your postings exude ignorance and a disgusting, irrational hatred. Although you don't acknowledge it, your anti-Christian ranting strongly suggests that you are Muslim and engaged in your own little on-line jihad. Chill out.

Tim| 4.8.09 @ 7:52AM

Ravi Zacharias wrote:

Something has gone radically wrong in the West. The powers that are at work behind the scenes think they know what they are doing by pandering to the destroyers of America’s historic faith, but in reality, they don’t have the foggiest notion of what is actually at stake here. While in America we may think that by evicting the “Christian God” from its public square it is rending the arena neutral, we are ignorant of the reality that, in the long run, Eastern religions will not allow them such “no man’s zone.” Europe will find out that once Turkey is admitted into the European Union, their leaders will have to be careful about what public statements they may make about God. Nature abhors a vacuum, especially a spiritual one, and though this flirtation with absolute secularism may win the momentary dawn of a new era, it will lose the day to more strident religions than the Christian belief. Of that, I am certain. Ask any Muslim missionary that question and he or she will tell you that is so. [. . .]

Pecos Pete| 4.8.09 @ 8:18AM

Davey the nut would have us living under the law of Sharia. That would fix things, right Davey? No Christians, no Jews, no religion except Islam. Am I correct Davey?

Crusader| 4.8.09 @ 8:30AM

Obama pandering to muslims? Wow, who'd-a thunk it?

TennesseeVolunteer| 4.8.09 @ 8:31AM

Go away Dave.

Ryan| 4.8.09 @ 8:36AM

Several things for David:

Pagan Nazism, atheistic Communism (particularly under Stalin), and militant Islamism have killed FAR more than any Christian - or supposed Christian - group have ever harmed.

America has also GIVEN more, in charity, than any other nation, ever.

Why gloss over the above when you make your arguments? Have you ever taken them into consideration?

Also, I find often that the "judge not" line is more often taken out of context AND is more often used by the guiltier party.

Keep in mind as well - the major scientific achievements, up until the early 20th century, were mostly made by Christians. Newton, Pasteur, Curie, etc. More often, when people speak of Christians being "anti-science," all they mean is we don't accept evolution out of hand. That's it.

You speak of 19th century morality. How has society been better served - when men and women had self-control and stayed together in marriages, or when you have kids running around not knowing their fathers?

Christians have acknowledged their faults throughout history - slavery and the Crusades come to mind - yet why are faults several hundred years old continued to be brought about?

david murphy| 4.8.09 @ 8:40AM

Mr. Mathews is not stupid, he simply represents a typical product of contemporary Western education which, while dwelling on the times Christianity has failed, never notes its successes or triumphs, and holds no other faith but Christianity to its stated principles. Think of your logic: Some Christians did un-Christian things. So Christianity is bad. How about this: Some atheists do bad things (like starve 13 million Ukrainians). So atheism is bad. That's the logic of Mr. Mathews, and the logic of most Americans today, who receive little in the way of formal training in logical thinking. Here are some other things Christianity did: Led the fight to abolish slavery globally, a fight which began with Christians while Jews and Muslims both still defended and, in the case of the latter, continued to practice slavery. The end of slavery is due almost entirely to the political engagement of committed Christians. So, thank us for that. We provided the only social service network the West had for many centuries, founding hospitals, orphanages, hospices and many other institutions which still exist and provide charity on a massive scale entirely from the support of committed Christians. We didn't suppress learning - we preserved it. I know, you'll say "Yeah, what about Galileo", probably spitting flecks of foam while you do. In fact, it was Catholic universities that first taught the world the theories of both Copernicus and Galileo. You need to read more, Mr. Mathews, and write less. A lot less, really. I suggest you begin educating yourself with Rodney Stark's book, "The Victory of Reason." Read, learn, think, and in a few years, try to post something reasonable about people whom you don't understand.

jerryofva| 4.8.09 @ 8:42AM

Folks:

I believe that this entity called "Dave Mathews is a paid astroturfer working for some group like ACORN. I am generally against banning someone but I willing to make an execption for him. Short of that if we don't respond to him he will eventually go away.

Texas Male| 4.8.09 @ 8:44AM

When Obama slammed Christians during the campaign by claiming a segment of Americans are bitter, clinging to their bibles and guns, this SHOULD have opened some eyes. But apparently Americans wanted an anti-Christian, anti-second amendment, ultra-liberal, America-hating, divisive, inexperienced president.

The cards were on the table and the majority ignored them and voted against their own self interest. Elections have become an American Idol style popularity contest.

We desperately need a viable, hard working, and dedicated third party where the grassroots makes personal sacrifices in order to secure the future of america....and specifically one that will vanquish the totalitarian, marxist left once and for all. give our schools, media, and courts BACK to the people.

Indiana Alex| 4.8.09 @ 8:48AM

If "Dave Mathews" is a paid astroturfer, somebody should be asking for thier money back.

Roy| 4.8.09 @ 8:52AM

Mr Neumayr joins Mark Steyn in talking as if liberals are actually scared of Muslims. In fact, they take Muslims so unseriously that the issue doesn't arise; Muslims are just an exotic stick with which to beat the real enemy, Christians.

Does anyone come anywhere near even thinking that liberals would side with Muslims vs., say, "gay marriage"? No, they will go under the bus so fast you'd think they lived there. And some "conservatives" will applaud. "Yay! They may still have libertinism as their highest priority, but at least they hate Muslims!"

Lucy| 4.8.09 @ 8:57AM

To quote David Matthews:
"'Yeah ... look at all the millions of people the Americans have killed throughout our nation's history. Christianity is a violent, bloodthirsty religion and remains so today. '"

Mr. Matthews, I'm not here to bash you or anyone else, but you have to realize one cannot categorize ALL Christians as being the same haters as you mention. It's wrong because not all 'Christians' are the same.

Some of these people who committed these acts of hatred were not Christians to begin with. I don't care how much they say they were or if they went to church all their lives. Humans will live the way they want to and any way they want with no regards or thoughts for God or man.

Have you thought about some of the Muslims who are killing others in the name of their god? Not all Muslims are like that. Just because the terrorists struck America doesn't mean that all Muslims believe the way those terrorists believed.

If you want to bash Christianity, then you have to bash the other religions as well. There will be extremists in everything.

I don't see any justification in any of the crude behaviors in any these religions. The God that I know is that of love, not hate and murder. We all have a right to our opinion as we see things.

To see a 'bad apple' in the bunch doesn't make the whole bunch bad. I wouldn't want someone to place me in the midst of something that I don't condone or agree with or participate in.

Mike| 4.8.09 @ 9:03AM

For a whole host of reasons, George Neumayr's thesis concerning Obama and liberals is ridiculous.
Concerning the President: for those paying attention, he has always been clear about the fact that our enemies are terrorists who pervert the tenets of Islam for their hideous political ends. What he refuses to do is equate Al-Qaeda terrorists with the entire religion of Islam. Some conservatives, needing enemies to inflame their base in order to hang onto power, don't like to make these kinds of distinctions and vilify those who don't accept their simplistic world view.

What caught my eye was Mr. Neumayr's assertion that western liberalism is irrational and that Christianity is represents the marriage of reason and religion. While I believe reason and Christianity are not mutually exclusive, I also know that some Christians are deeply unreasonable; in fact, completely irrational. This can best be seen among biblical literalists and their campaign to impose intelligent design on our public schools. Not understanding or liking the fact that the job of science is simply to understand and explain the nature our physical world, they get mad at Galileo for telling us that the earth is not the center of the universe or at Darwin for explaining the evolution of species. How long did it take the reasonable Catholic Church to admit that Galileo was right? How long will the literalists ignore the fossil record?

Renee| 4.8.09 @ 9:05AM

People responding to Mr. Matthews are making for some very boring reading. When I see his name I just scroll on past. He really enjoys all the time and attention you give to him.

Big J| 4.8.09 @ 9:05AM

"By different routes of irrationality, western liberals and militant Muslims arrive at the same spot. Western liberals reach it by a distorted "reason" without faith, militant Muslims by a distorted "faith" without reason, with each imbalance producing its own culture of death: abortion and euthanasia in the west, jihad in the east."

Mr. Neumayr, brilliantly put. Our value system has been under attack for a very long time. Like cancer eating away at your body's vital organs, it has been a very slow but deadly process under the guise of "equality" and "right to choose". It is disgusting to watch, if you're paying attention.

I agree with the above post - Dave Matthews should be banned. Ignore him and he will go away? I don't think I can wait that long.

Dr. Right| 4.8.09 @ 9:21AM

Why is anyone surprised?

Obama is a stealth Muslim. He practically said so in his idiotic books. He's not a Christian - and neither is Jeremiah Wright, so 20+ years of attendance at Wright's "church" is meaningless.

Obama has already signalled that he wants more Muslims in the USA by his plan to open-up immigration to the murderous, terrorist-loving Palestinians...The ones who are so "oppressed" by the Israelis.

So look to the number of Muslims in America to increase. And, concomitantly, look to civil strife in those areas where they are most heavily concentrated.

Unlike Mr. Obama, or our previous President, I don't swallow the baloney about Islam being a "religion of peace". Nor do I listen to the hog-wash about us NOT being at war with Islam.

Islam has declared war on the West; only fools like Hillary Clinton, or Muslim subversives like Obama will publicy deny this. The rest of us do it at our own peril.

I urge all real Americans (ie, those who believe in our Constitution, and in American exceptionalism) to keep an eye on their homes and especially their neighborhoods. Find out if and when Muslims move in, and what they're doing. And REFUSE to be cowed by their threats, legal or otherwise.

Are all Muslims terrorists? No. But 99.99% of all terrorists are Muslims, and their terrorist activity is NOT incidental to their faith. Islam is absolutely incompatible with the freedoms we cherish and enjoy in the USA. Our way of life, and the Islamic way of life CANNOT co-exist peacefully. That doesn't mean we seek them out, and commit random acts of violence against them. But it DOES mean we need to take a harder stance against Muslims who want to immigrate to the USA. They need to understand that we don't value their thoughts on religion, or Sharia Law. They need to understand that if they want to live here, they MUST value our way of life - Or stay home in Craplakistan.

Mr. Obama has neither the stones, nor the inclination to follow such a course of action. He despises his own country for perceived slights regarding his race, despite the fact that the country has bent over backwards to propel him (and his annoying wife) over the backs of others into the Ivy League and beyond PRECISELY because of his race, not because of any real personal achievements (he has none). He will continue to blame America for the rest of the world's problems, and he will embrace those who dislike America (Hugo Chavez, Raoul Castro, Muslim loonies) because he agrees with them.

It is shameful that >50% of our country was either too stupid or too naive to elect such a man to our highest office. It is even more frightening when one considers that his true loyalties lie with our mortal enemies in the Muslim world.

Joe| 4.8.09 @ 9:22AM

Obama (dave matthews) is at it again with lies, distortions and fabrications. People don't waist your time. He is not work it. Ignore, Ignore, Ignore!!!!

Jeff D aldridge| 4.8.09 @ 9:27AM

what the hell

Bram| 4.8.09 @ 9:32AM

Mike said the President "has always been clear about the fact that our enemies are terrorists who pervert the tenets of Islam for their hideous political ends. "

I used to believe this "fact" also. After much time spent in the Middle East, some reading of the Koran, and listening to actual Muslims, I no longer believe terrorist are perverting Islam. They are doing exactly what the Koran says they should.

Louis Jenkins| 4.8.09 @ 9:35AM

And so the argument goes that Christians (aka conservatives- see Liberal Dictionary of the new Obama Nation) are worse in character than the general population (aka those who voted for Obama) because they bitterly cling to their Bibles and Guns, and seek no compromise with liberal values, nor with the “Religion of Peace.” The current administration must select a target for this new elite (aka those who approve of Obama) to despise. Obama has reached a personal nirvana while selling out America and its populace to nations who are envious of our achievements and exceptionality. In a few short months Christians (aka Conservatives) will be fed to lions, burned at the stake, or drawn and quartered, much to the merriment of Muslims, Wickans, “Climate Change” worshippers, and many of our nationally elected representatives. Obama is definitely their ‘man’ and someone’s gonna pay (Christian-Conservatives). Government funded tickets for this gruesome spectacular are undoubtedly hidden some where deep within the recent unread Stimulus Bill. I’m sure DM will be sitting in the front row eating government approved popcorn and sipping a diet soda. Heaven help if blood is splattered on anyone’s lily white hands or garments. But then, they may enjoy the debauchery.

When the Christians and Jews are all slaughtered for merriment who will be next? As Roy stated, the Muslims and their new found Obamaton allies will have no problem finding the next selection for fun and games. Maybe it will be those who sat on the front row.

Luke 22:36 (King James Version)
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Nora| 4.8.09 @ 9:41AM

I would happily join a new Crusade. Do the actual research and you will see that the Catholic Church was completely right to try to protect the holy land from the marauding bands of ignorant savages....now known as Muslims. They are anti-intellectual, anti-women, anti-literacy barbarians. I'm tired of hearing about all their wonderful cultural gifts to society. It's all complete claptrap. As many books translated into Spanish in 1 year equal the total number of books EVER translated into Arabic. Case closed.

.| 4.8.09 @ 9:42AM

David Mathews,

The most prolific mass murderers in history were decidedly atheist: Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Castro, Margaret Sanger, etc.

Darin| 4.8.09 @ 9:53AM

Regarding comments by David Mathews, it should be noted that he has the freedom to make such comments. And how was that freedom provided (and maintained)? Predominantly by those with Christian beliefs. If he made sure derogatory statements about Islam in a Muslim country, he would quickly be identified and later found dead. Attacking Christians and Christianity is easy because, while we may not agree, we won't kill you for it. In fact, Christians would defend him even while he stabs them in the back.

Christians as individuals are far from perfect, but much good has come from their efforts. Hospitals, orphanages, shelters, medical care throughout the world, elimination of slavery in much of the world, and many universities all have Christian origins. That doesn't justify the wrong done in the name of Christianity, but it does show that condemning Christianity is by definition condemning the above mentioned items.

Jeff Aldridge| 4.8.09 @ 9:56AM

America is'nt a christian country. This country was founded on Biblical principals. Believeing in God does not make you a christian. Remember Judas was a disiciple. That did'nt make him a christian, as the story unfolds. Our government is definately not christian as a whole. But as individuals there very well may be. certainly there are christians living in these United States But you simply can't put the whole population of a counry under the same religious classification. As you well know there are many different beliefs among this great nation we live in. Now to the comment regarding " Judge not lest ye be judged" that is to properly translated something like this, " Condemn not for fear that you may be judged accordingly". We as mortals are inclined to judge from the tainted arrogant sinful nature we inherit. to condemn. even in court you get condemn to fines ,community service or jail. But if you'll notice that in that same Bible Jesus tells us to use his way of judgement he states" judge not by appearence but by righteous judgement. This "judgement" means to ,weigh in, to consider,to value in righteousness. To seek out the truth, the good, the proper moral sight of things. Then whatever the outcome it would be appropriate. even if it is to be condemned. So please you people that publish these articles , opinions and comments, do weighin onthem.value and consider them for thething which you propagate may lead one to the truth or lead them to deception. thank you

WBHeff| 4.8.09 @ 9:57AM

Basic premise of Judaism: We are the chosen people. We accept converts to Judaism, but we really don't encourage it, since, if you weren't born Jewish, maybe you aren't really "chosen."
Christianity, and Catholicism in particular: Go forth and baptise all nations in the name of Jesus Christ. Jesus is the Saviour, and we encourage and accept converts. But, if you don't want to convert, that is your choice.
Islam: Convert, Submit, or Die.

Renee| 4.8.09 @ 10:01AM

Re: Mike's post: "completely irrational" christians who want to "impose intelligent design on our public schools" Is it completely irrational to think that perhaps ,even taking into account the fossil record and Darwin, that maybe there is an intelligence behind it all? Not all proponents of intelligent design are biblical literalists are they?

S in Maryland| 4.8.09 @ 10:10AM

The United States may not be at war with Islam, but sure as the sun shines and the skies are blue, Islam is at war with US.
Barry - go hide your head in the sand, but it does not change the truth, no matter how speeches are written for you to deliver, no matter how many people drink the flavor-aide.

brat magursky| 4.8.09 @ 10:12AM

OK gang Mr Mathews always seems to highjack serious discussion & twist it around so as to deflect from his own shallwoness & ignorance...stop giving him the pleasure ...just ask Mr Mathews 2 questions...ask him to give up the name or names of any christian he knows who openly teaches their children to strap explosives to themselves & blow themselves up in the midst of any public gathering in the name of religous or personal freedom & who are then touted as heroes & then ask him would he raise up his own children to serve this end...then sit back & read as he answers to the affirmative in the mindless drivel fashion of his much predictable M.O. I try very hard to feel sorry for him but struggle with the lowering of my personal standards that such an act would require. I think we should all go about our daily lives the best we can & leave Mr Mathews & his ilk to wallow in the depths of depravity from which they eminate

Norman Conquest| 4.8.09 @ 10:16AM

The first thing everyone needs to know about Islam is the importance of the Koran. As you probably know the Koran calls for submission, hatred, violence, murder, terrorism and war. The Koran calls upon Muslims to kill non-Muslims. The Koran describes Jews as monkeys and pigs. The biggest problem is that the Koran is to be considered as Allah’s personal word, with orders that need to be fulfilled regardless of place or time. That’s the reason why the Koran is not open to discussion or interpretation. It is valid for every Muslim and for all times. Therefore, there is no such thing as moderate Islam. Sure, there are a lot of moderate Muslims, but a moderate Islam does not exist. As the Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan once said: “There is no moderate Islam, Islam is Islam”.
No, compare and contrast that with Christianity. Modern Christianity, that is, not the Christianity of 1000 years ago. This should be obvious but I felt the need to point it out so that dullards such as this Dave Mathews specimen can perhaps understand.

Eddie B.| 4.8.09 @ 10:25AM

david matthews, what is the NUMBER 1 contribution of Muslims to America? Food items and Persian rugs don't count. And give us a list of say, 2 of the really, really, really bad wars Christians and Catholics have perpetrated. Oh, and don't try to use the Crusades. Those of us who got a real education know those were wars of DEFENSE.
And lastly, if you manage to get through the first two questions, name 1, and only 1, genocide committed by Christians.
One last parameter, do not to use the words, Nazi, stupid, dope, moron, idiot, racist, xenophobe, bigot, homophobe, hater, warmonger. I could make the list longer but that would leave you with no words for a response.

Bob| 4.8.09 @ 10:29AM

What is wrong with ALL of you on both sides of this? The vast majority in this world are good people. They are just trying to put a roof over their heads and feed their families. I've traveled the world and have met lots of really good people of all religions and non-religions including a large number who are Muslim.

Hitler was a Christian, not an atheist. Here's what he said:

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

and...

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people."

There is bigotry and malfeasance in all religions. Those who are poor and less educated tend to be more cult like in their religious beliefs whether they are Christians or Muslims.

I agree that fundamental Islam is draconian. But I've discussed this with many Muslims and they ignore those teachings just like many Christians no longer believe you should stone people.

It is time we set aside the bigotry and lack of knowledge of fundamentalist religion, and start being open to freedom of religion for others. I've seen more Christian bigots on this board than any other place. You all should get an education, actually talk to Muslims, and open your very closed minds.

Nick| 4.8.09 @ 10:31AM

Mr. Neumayr,

Great essay! Hits the nail on the head.

Modern liberals are vampires. If they see a Crucifix they cower in pain and they suck the blood out of society. They operate under two principles: A-B-C, Anything But Christianity; and the enemy of my enemy is my friend, i.e. Moslems.

Eddie B.| 4.8.09 @ 10:46AM

Nice try bob, Hiltler was a Christian, LMAO. I must have missed the book of the Bible where EXTERMINATION of God's chosen people is authorized.
And where, just where has ANYONE on this board called for NO freedom of religion? You cannot point to one. We DISSENT from your touchy feely worldview. Get over it.

Nick| 4.8.09 @ 10:50AM

Nora,

Right on! If only the Crusaders had eradicated those invading hordes a thousand years ago, we would have one less problem to deal with today.

But alas, just as Israel didn't destroy all the Canaanite and other pagan tribes, only to have them come back and corrupt Israel from within; we are going through the same set of adversities because of our rejection of Christ.

Dustoff| 4.8.09 @ 11:27AM

I'm not sure who the BIGGER FOOL is!
David Mathews who we know is nuts and nothing but a trouble maker.
OR the people who keep responding to him.
Give it up folks. You could show DM the proof and he won't care. He just enjoy's getting to you.
AND you keep coming back for more?? Jezzz

A different Tim| 4.8.09 @ 11:30AM

"Christians aren't peaceful and they don't love. See the last 2000 years of Christian history. "

"It's so much easier to pray for a bore than to go and see one. "
C. S. Lewis

Charlene| 4.8.09 @ 11:35AM

Bob said:
I've seen more Christian bigots on this board than any other place.
I say:
Feel free to go to another board.
Dave Matthews, feel free to go to another country if this one is so distasteful to you.

Ed| 4.8.09 @ 11:36AM

Mr. David Matthews is a "troll" (someone who baits the other posters on political websites). Web trolls are people who have nothing better to do in their empty lives than to bloviate on opposition websites. Trolls are found on the Right and on the Left. If you have an opinion, share it, and then get on with your life.

Dave Mathews| 4.8.09 @ 11:40AM

Forgive me for being an idiot. I am just PMS, for life.

Bram| 4.8.09 @ 11:40AM

Hilter was NOT a Christian. The SS - his idealogical troops - were explicity pressured to renounce Christianity.

Mike | 4.8.09 @ 11:43AM

Renee,
The problem I see with intelligent designers is that they confuse science and theology. I don't think all who espouse intelligent design are biblical literalists. Some Christians believe God is the transcendent creator of all that is and they have no issue with scientist working to understand that creation. Unlike biblical literalists and some intelligent designers, these Christians aren't about trying to force the science to conform to their preconceived idea of how God made creation.

dennisl59| 4.8.09 @ 11:50AM

All Muslims should make a choice: 1) Convert to Christianity or 2) Kill Themselves. Problem Solved. Thank You.

stmichrick| 4.8.09 @ 11:55AM

hey Bob

Not everyone has extended Hitler quotations at their fingertips...scary.

Michelle| 4.8.09 @ 12:12PM

The history of Christianity and Western Civilization is well documented and established. There is no need to defend it to the likes of David Mathews et al. Read history, decide for yourself. Beware of hateful pontificators. Hatred, bigotry, xenophobia, etc., are not specific to Christians, as is well demonstrated every single day. They are human traits exhibited very profusely throughout the Muslim world.

prehist51| 4.8.09 @ 12:21PM

Can't believe so many people fall for the trap that David Matthews always throws out. First Mr. Matthews is right in his assessment about Christianity. As a religion it has been a total failure. Over the course of history much killing, hatred, and harm has been done in the name of Christianity. But other religions too have their share of misery, murder, and hatred as well. Christianity is not unique in its corruptness.
Politically Mr. Matthews also has some salient points. Conservatives have clung too much to a fundamentalist belief that people should be punished severely for their wrongs, in effect playing God here on earth. But to be honest, one has to recognize the good that conservative Christian also do. They actually volunteer in greater numbers than liberals to actually help the poor. They also give much larger sums of money to charitable organizations that help the less fortunate. Does them make them better than Muslims or Liberals? Not really. But it does shows through their actions that in today's current world there some are Conservative Christians that try to live up to the high standards set by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But because we are human and sinners we fall short. But that does not mean we should stop trying. People can only see Christ through the actions of those that proclaiming him. Unfortunately, too many people professing Christ, are very bad examples that confuse their political views with their religious ones.
Instead of trying to put down Mr. Matthews and argue with him, I want to encourage him to continue to keep those of us professing Christ as our Lord on our toes. His posts certainly make me think my own salvation through and his rants about conservatives also make me challenge my own political beliefs. It is people like Mr Matthews that should be making those professing Christ better Christians not haters of those that believe differently than we do. Mr. Matthews, I don't know you and will probably never meet you, but thank you for your stern and timely comments.

Louis Jenkins| 4.8.09 @ 12:23PM

Have any of you noticed the adds on the outer margins of this article? They're filled with "Muslim Singles" advertisements. " Prowse the photos now!" etc. Why would they post such advertisements by a decidedly anti-Muslim article? I thought all Muslim male female relationships had to be pre-arranged and participation in such 'hook-ups' as this would warrant a beheading of both parties.

BobbyJo| 4.8.09 @ 12:27PM

The Obama's don't celebrate Christmas. This should have given everyone a clue to the fact that he's not a Christian though he claimed to be. Most of his relatives are Muslim, so his dissing of Christianity and kissing up to the Muslim world doesn't surprise me at all. Obama actually made the statement, "America is NOT a Christian nation". It won't be if he gets his way. The founding Fathers must be rolling over in their graves. May God help us!

Tony in Central PA| 4.8.09 @ 12:29PM

Neumayr certainly has an interesting premise. I recall the firestorm over Salman Rushdie's " The Satanic Verses " back in the early 90's. I experienced puzzlement over the muted criticism of the fundamentalist Islamic reaction to it in some usually noisy liberal circles. After all, weren't these people the champions of any and all free expression ? I compared this to the simultaneous, screeching protests from the left about the denial of tax dollars to fund art that mocked Christianity. I always thought the difference in the liberal response in this case was fear - based. Create a sculpture of the Virgin Mary out of elephant dung or exhibit a photo of somebody urinating on a crucifix as high art and a few Christians may complain about why their tax dollars must be used for such filth. Say or write something negative about Islam and risk getting blown up.

Neumayr comes at it from another angle that does seem to fill in more of the blanks. The attraction to irrationality of liberalism is the belief that things must be the way we want simply because its what we want. How many times I've argued a point with a liberal antagonist to be met not with reasons or facts but a sweeping emotional irrationality expressed in insults ( see thread above ). Its the elevation of distorted will above all faith and reason.

jharp| 4.8.09 @ 12:34PM

Renee,

"Is it completely irrational to think that perhaps ,even taking into account the fossil record and Darwin, that maybe there is an intelligence behind it all? "

Yes, it is completely irrational. There is not one shred of evidence, not one even teeny tiny shred, to support the ludicrous claim of intelligent design. None, zero, zilch, nada.

Bob| 4.8.09 @ 12:48PM

stmichrick said: "Not everyone has extended Hitler quotations at their fingertips...scary."

Actually they do unless they are intellectually challenged -- it's called "Google". Try it sometime...

Bram, I know you want to believe that Hitler was not Christian, but his writings and statements claim that he was until his death. He did not believe in a state religion sort of like the separation of church and state we have here. Thus, he promoted non-religious affiliations with state actions like marriage.

As much as you'd like to believe, history shows us that Hitler was a Christian. He even spoke out against the atheist nature of the Soviet Union. You can live in a fantasy world or the real world. It's your choice.

By the way, this is ONLY to make the point that there are bad people in all religions -- not to denigrate Christianity. So when you use minority examples to denigrate Islam, the same can be done to Christianity.

Just for the kicks| 4.8.09 @ 12:48PM

Everytime liberals take control, things fall apart.
Such as home structure.
Such as strong and civilized countries.
And has led to the deterioration of the education standards in schools, reliable and trustworthy media, and the idea of limited goverment. (More like bloated and wreckless goverment)
Once again we have allowed liars to take control and play their game all over again. When will the liberals wake up and accept the blame? It is their policies over time that have led to collapse and caos.

Bob| 4.8.09 @ 12:58PM

Seen any Christians behead a human on national t.v. lately? Cause mentally retarded humans to wear a suicide belt?

jharp| 4.8.09 @ 1:01PM

"Seen any Christians behead a human on national t.v. lately?"

Nope. But I did see one blow up a federal building in Oklahoma killing a few hundred. including children.

And a quite a few bombings over the past few decades.

But no heads chopped off, you are correct.

Big Leo| 4.8.09 @ 1:05PM

Dave Mathews and jharp on the same thread. C'est un embarassement des richesses, non?

Ignore them . Encouraging fools is a sin.

IMKEssel| 4.8.09 @ 1:11PM

A thought or two for those who bother to respond to some of the thoughtless, hateful and hate filled spewing that passes as posting here: when I walk down a street littered with excrement, I walk around it. I don't stop to acknowledge it, nor do I take time from my walk to answer it. Nothing I can say will change its odiferous nature (or as I tell my students: when you are sitting in the bathroom, you don’t answer every time you hear a fart.)

Or to elevate the point slightly, a quote oft attributed to Mark Twain: “Never argue with a pig. You both end up muddy, but the pig likes it!”

In no way am I advocating turning the other cheek when anyone distorts the truth, what is the point in arguing against a position that is so poorly reasoned that no one of intelligence is swayed? Answering a fool with wisdom benefits neither the fool nor the speaker.

And to lift this from the scatological to sacramental, “"Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.” (Matthew 7:6).

Bob| 4.8.09 @ 1:17PM

"Seen any Christians behead a human on national t.v. lately?"

Actually we have. Some of the drug lords in Mexico have recently used beheadings as a deterrent. The Mafia also used beheadings. They are all Catholic. Come to think of it, didn't the French create a machine to behead and the English use an ax?

As civilizations advance, they tend to stop things like beheadings. There is still an extremely high illiteracy rate among Muslims. In fact, in places like Afghanistan, illiteracy is almost 90%. Once we get many Muslims out of the middle ages, you will see changes in how they behave -- just like Christians. You need to learn something about anthropology.

Bob| 4.8.09 @ 1:21PM

IMKEssel -- I do feel sorry about your students. When I see excrement in the street, I try to find the person responsible and deal with him/her. You may not be able do deal with that piece of dung, but you can help prevent the next one.

I see you are a proponent of the ostrich principle.

Todd| 4.8.09 @ 1:27PM

David Murphy,
I have to disagree with you when you say DM is not stupid because I can assure you that he is very dumb and ignorant and is incapable of making a logical, rational argument. Being a trust fund brat who does not have to earn a dollar for himself, he can afford to live in a world of unreality, stupidity and ignorance. His is a classic case of projection, he projects his self-hatred to those of us who make him feel guilty for his own lack of morals and uselessness. He refuses to believe in a God who he will have to answer to someday because he knows that would be a very bad thing for someone like himself. As easy as his life may be with is ill-gotten money, he is clearly living in hell with no purpose but to hate and attempt to destroy anything that is good.

IMKessel| 4.8.09 @ 1:32PM

Bob,

Have you ever walked down a NYC street?

You assume much that is not in evidence in my statement. I applaud that you do make an inference, but without weighing the inference against other pertinent information, you cannot draw a well informed conclusion. In other words, you have performed the logical fallacy of hasty generalization.

My students and I thank you for your concern.

Todd| 4.8.09 @ 1:37PM

You are a sick man Bob with your hatred towards Christianity. To say drug lords in Mexico represent Christianity shows you are incapable of being objective when it comes to religion. The Muslim fanatics kill in the name of Allah, the drug lords kill for their own material gain and has nothing to do with religion. And how is it that we are suppose to get the Muslims out of the middle ages? The only way I can see is by defeating the forces of militant Islam that seeks to drag the world back to the 7th century. Did it occur to you that their backward looking religion has something to do with that and why they have not advanced like western nations have? Turkey for example is not nearly as backwards because they have rejected a backwards fundamentalist Islam and Sharia law and have a much higher standard of living along with much more freedom than other Muslim nations. It appears you are the one who needs some learning on anthropology Bob.

Nick| 4.8.09 @ 1:38PM

Bob,

You write, "...but [Hitler's] writings and statements claim that he was until his death."

What about his actions? Was his relationship with his niece Christian? Or having a mistress? Which parish was he a member of ? And did he attend Mass weekly? Who was the priest that witnessed his marriage to Eva Braun? Was exterminating 12-15 million Jews, Poles, Czechs, and other Slavs very Christian?

Also, when did Hitler say these things? Was it up "until his death", or was it in the late 20's and early 30's when he was running for elective office and needed Christian votes? The timing matters.

Nice try Bob. You want Hitler to be a Christian because you despise we religious, social conservatives. During this Holy Week of Easter, I will say a prayer for you Bob.

Big Leo| 4.8.09 @ 1:43PM

The Gospel According to Bob-- Mexican drug lords are Christians. The Mafia are Christians. The militant atheists who started the French Revolution and massacred hundreds of thousands are Christians. Hitler, never attended a church after he was 18, arrested one quarter of the priests in Germany, who hated Christians as weak and designed his postwar cities with no churches was Christian. And for the troll who shall not be named, the Oklahoma City bombers, who never attended church and didn't belong to one, were Christians.

Gee, Bob. You forgot Jeffrey Dahlmer and Stalin. Weren't they Christians, too?

maria| 4.8.09 @ 1:46PM

Islam is a religion of peace

Tom| 4.8.09 @ 1:48PM

Reading a lot from anti-Christians. All of you are showing your ingorance of Christian religion and the teachings. You may want to learn more and to do so try reading, and understanding The New Testament.

Big Leo| 4.8.09 @ 1:51PM

When I read the jeremiads of the anti-Christians, I never actually recognize any Christian I actually know and have worked with. Their caricature of Christianity is never based on any actual understanding of the complexities of history. Their description of the psychological motivations of Christians don't jibe with any Christians I am aware of.

In short, they suffer from what they accuse Christians of-- the creation of imaginary people.

manahil| 4.8.09 @ 1:55PM

i would like to tell that if for the sake of argument we believe that Islam is not a religion of peace,so why do so many people accept Islam. if u really want to find out which religion is true so it is better that u should personally find out what that religion actually teaches and stop looking at its followers. i cannot say any thing bad about any ones religion b'cuz being a muslim my religion forbids me to say anything bad about any ones religion

Nick| 4.8.09 @ 1:58PM

Bob,

You seem to be confusing Christianity with ethnicity. Just because someone's mother has them baptized as a baby or raises them Christian doesn't mean they are for life. They can leave any time, it's called free will.

Christianity is a faith of submission to Christ, it is voluntary. Anybody raised as a Christian has to at some point decide for themselves whether to believe in Christ or to leave the faith.

It is obvious to the unbiased that drug lords, mafioso, and Hitler have/had rejected Christianity.

Bob| 4.8.09 @ 2:00PM

So, Nick, it is up to YOU to determine who is Christian and who is not? You don't admit that there were Christians that did bad things? Hitler claimed to be a Christian. You claim to be a Christian. You miss the whole point. In every religion there are bad people. Isn't that part of the theory of "free will"?

I don't "want" Hitler to be Christian, he simply claimed that he was and it makes my point in a way that seems to hit the mark. Believe it or not, there are also good people who are NOT Christian. Some of these good people are even atheists!

Big Leo -- do you disagree that many of those people were declared Christians? Again, you miss the point. There are people who do good things and people who do bad things notwithstanding their claimed religion.

Tom -- ignorance is using belief to disregard fact.

Jim| 4.8.09 @ 2:05PM

One thing for sure, Mr. Mathews and Bob generate a lot of posts. If anyone wants to know where I am, keep scrolling, I'm way down here.

jack| 4.8.09 @ 2:15PM

It should be obvious that Obama is Neville Chamberlain deluxe. He bows to an Arabian King? He panders to Muslims and denigrates Christians at every turn? This simple minded fool does not understand that he has made himself look weak and the country look weak. Muslims and Arabs have no respect for weakness,and some hate it. They admire strength and use of force. The reason many Europe did not like us is we were the best not because we were defending them. Now Obama wants to end missle defense as rogue nations gain long range missile technology?
What are we to think. Everything about this guy is anti american and pro our enemies. What the F is going on?

jack| 4.8.09 @ 2:16PM

Obama condemns US sailors for provoking pirates and using excessive force in defeating them.

Nick| 4.8.09 @ 2:17PM

Bob,

I understand quite well what your point is, you're just wrong in using Hitler to make it. Hitler's henchmen Goebbels and Himmler were occultists getting back to their Aryan roots. And I think you're using Hitler (the boogy man for those who can't make a cogent argument) on purpose because of you're contempt for religious conservatives.

Also, no, it's not up to me to decide who is Christian and who isn't. As a Roman Catholic I can judge if someone is practicing the Faith or not. And Hitler wasn't practicing the faith.

Todd| 4.8.09 @ 2:17PM

Bob,
Someone is not a Christian because they were born so but because they accept the teachings of Christ in their life and Hitler was an anti-Christ by any measure so once again you are guilty of sophistry in an attempt to prove a false point. No one is saying that anyone has to be a Christian to be a decent human being. The point is that today there is a significant portion of the Islam faith that believes are non-Muslims are infidels and deserve death and are willing to act on that belief even if they are a minority. No other religion (Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, etc) has any group of believers remotely close that is taught to hate all non-believers and kill them if possible so any attempt to equivalize is just plain false.

Do not tell me that I know nothing about Islam or I am some uneducated conservative because that is bullcrap. I lived in Indonesia and have friends who are Muslim and who are very nice people because they reject those teachings and hatred of their fellow man.

Nick| 4.8.09 @ 2:20PM

One more thing, Bob.
By claiming Hitler was Christian "until his death" with no evidence, aren't YOU deciding who is Christian and who isn't?

Mark| 4.8.09 @ 2:23PM

To Dave Matthews,

I will say alot of prayers for you! Maybe you should read the Bible. this way you will be at peace with yourself and with Jesus.

Bob| 4.8.09 @ 2:31PM

Nick, my contempt for religious conservatives has nothing to do with their religion, it has to do with their intolerance for other fiscal conservatives who may not share their beliefs. I believe in the separation of church and state and don't see that separation in social conservatives.

If you understood my point about Hitler, then you know that it wasn't a statement about Christians, it was a statement that there can be bad people anywhere and that blaming Islam for the minority of people who are terrorists is not intellectually sound.

Todd, fact is not a false point. Can you prove that most Muslims believe that non-Muslims should die? I've spent a lot of time, like you, in a number Muslim countries. One of the things I learned was to judge people as individuals, not as adherents to one religion or another. I call that intolerance and bigotry. The fact that you know many Muslims who reject those teachings and hatred should cause you to rethink your beliefs. How you can reconcile those two things I just don't understand. There is a correlation between being uneducated and crime, however, notwithstanding religion. Your friends in Indonesia must have reasonable levels of education, right?

Big Leo| 4.8.09 @ 2:40PM

I have moslem friends too, people who are reasonable and kind to their neighbors regardless of their religion. However, they are like that despite their religion, not because of it. The horrible teachings of so many of the Moslem religious leaders has to be experienced or it would be unbelievable. Try reading some overseas Moslem threads.

It's not education. The 9/11 bombers were all well educated, often in the West and were by no means ignorant. It's Islam.

Big Leo| 4.8.09 @ 2:44PM

"Big Leo -- do you disagree that many of those people were declared Christians?" Of course I do. They don't act like Christians, they aren't active in a church, their private statements are anti-Christian. Ergo, not Christians. And there are plenty of statements by Hitler in his private writings which are clearly anti-Christian. He never claimed to be a Christian and he never went to church, proclaimed any Christian idea, or treated Christians with respect. I could say that I'm a Buddhist, but the absolute lack of proof in anything but my campaign statements in Buddhist electoral districts would prove I was lying.

jharp| 4.8.09 @ 2:50PM

Kind of ironic to see all the fake Christian wingnut TAS posters defending Christianity when they spend all day here lying, obfuscating, and misleading, while pretending to be Christians.

Now that's not very Christian. It is guys like you that give Christianity its problems.

I've got no problem with ANY religion. It's the fakers and hypocrites that bother me. As it should everyone.

Nick| 4.8.09 @ 3:01PM

Bob,

You've stopped trying to defend your "Hitler was a Christian" nonsense, so I assume you concede he wasn't.

To speak for myself, I'm only intolerant of evil. Moslems who practice their faith peacefully have nothing to worry about from me.

By the way, Bob, where is "separation of church and state" in the U.S. Constitution? I know where it is in the former U.S.S.R.'s constitution, Article 124 (1947).

Helen Donnelly| 4.8.09 @ 3:11PM

Dear Mr. Matthews,
I will pray for your immortal soul.

Bob| 4.8.09 @ 3:18PM

Nick, there is nothing to defend. Hitler claimed to be a Christian just like you claim to be a Christian. It is not my job to adjudicate his, or your, claim.

As you, I am only intolerant of evil irrespective of religion. However, we might define "evil" differently -- especially in the case of abortion or gay marriage.

Regarding "separation of church and state", I'm sure you are trying to be literal on the concept. This phrase was first used by Thomas Jefferson in 1802 in a letter to the Danbury Baptists and explains the intent of the First Amendment. I'm sure he knows more about the intent of the First Amendment than either of us since I have not recently read the minds of those who wrote the Constitution. Perhaps you have entered a seance and received this information directly?

Bill| 4.8.09 @ 3:25PM

Dave Matthews.. my wife and I hope you continue to post notes here. We have not laughed so hard in months. Your stupidity and ignorance of the topics you touch on is material for the late night shows.
...something about a man in his own wisdom becomes a fool....
Seems that fits...:)

Big Leo| 4.8.09 @ 3:43PM

"I'm sure he knows more about the intent of the First Amendment than either of us since I have not recently read the minds of those who wrote the Constitution." Your reference to Jefferson's letter takes one phrase out of context. The context was to guarantee total noninteference in religion by the State, not elimination of religion from the public square. When I want to know something about the intent of the Constitution, I don't read Jefferson, who had nothing whatsoever to do about it. I read the Federalist papers, which were written by the same people who wrote the Constitution.

And if you actually read Nazi philosophy (Rosenberg for example) and Mein Kampf (there's a miserable job for anyone) Hitler's denunciations of Christianity are most clear. His goal was to replace Christianity.

Big Leo| 4.8.09 @ 4:04PM

Renee, everybody knows he-who-is-not-to-be-named is a vicious little weasel. Don't encourage him by telling him so. He gets off on it.

Bob| 4.8.09 @ 4:09PM

Big Leo -- who said anything about elimination of religion from the public square? I even support using public schools for religious after school groups. I just don't want you forcing YOUR religious beliefs on me just because you are in the majority.

Being a Jew, I've read a great deal about Nazi philosophy. More than half of my relatives died in concentration camps. But that doesn't change fact -- Hitler claimed to be a Christian. Nice try, though.

Big Leo| 4.8.09 @ 4:18PM

My grandmother was half Jewish, which is why my grandparents left Germany. The difference is, I've read much more of what Hitler and the Nazis actually said. Hitler never claimed to be a Christian.

Also-- exactly how am I forcing MY religious beliefs on you or anybody else? Surely you don't believe that no ideal derived from our faith (compassion, anti-slavery, anti child abuse, for example), has any place in the public square. Frankly, I don't know of any purely 'religious' belief that has been forced on anybody by Christians or Jews in our country.

Ryan| 4.8.09 @ 4:21PM

Bob,

I'm somewhere in-between your point of view and the rest which hold all Muslims at fault for the misgivings of a few. I honestly think that there is a divide among Muslims, but there is a LARGE problem, mostly being that there aren't many public denunciations of the crazy ones outside of the US. I think that Islam has some SERIOUS internal problems that everyone else sees and they don't acknowledge.

Maybe the same can be said about Christians.

On Hitler and those othes who claimed some sort of connection with Christianity, I honestly believe that the Bible gives those of us who are truly Christians the permission to use sound judgment and call a spade a spade on the matter. Please don't say that those people are Christians - I think that it may be more correct to say that they claimed to be Christians. By all Biblical standards, Hitler wasn't one, and I think that I have some sort of permission to call that out.

I'm more on the libertarian side, but am perfectly willing to call a sin a sin. I don't think that everything should go, I just want to be certain that I should retain the freedom to tell someone that their actions are sinful, even if they aren't illegal.

Dai Alanye| 4.8.09 @ 4:31PM

Has anyone noticed that the Matthews troll is sometimes the Mathews troll? I hope this means it is forgetful, and not an indication that it has been cloned.

I love (in an ironic sense) persons who, like Matthews/Mathews, make this sort of statement: "Christians committed genocide against the Native Americans…"

I'm a native American against whom Christians have never even *attempted* to commit genocide. But perhaps the troll is actually referring to *aboriginal Americans,* the coppery-colored people who came to the Western Hemisphere before Europeans and shortly after Polynesians.

Here's another foolish statement by a different troll-like poster: "Hitler claimed to be a Christian."

What is the point and where is the logic? Jeremiah Wright also claims to be a Christian, but you cannot preach beliefs absolutely counter to those of Jesus of Nazareth and be a Christian. In fact, even Thor or Woden would probably have rejected Hitler as a worshipper.

The same joker continues with this regarding separation of church and state: "This phrase was first used by Thomas Jefferson in 1802 in a letter to the Danbury Baptists and explains the intent of the First Amendment."

Quite true, I believe, and the purpose of Jefferson's statement has been completely misunderstood by the Bobster and a myriad of people since. Jefferson was assuring the Baptists that their religious beliefs would be protected from the state. The Bobster and his ilk, however, interpret it as the Constitution protecting the state from the Church. Not smart—not smart at all.

el Donaldo| 4.8.09 @ 4:31PM

The writer of this editorial is extremely confused about a number of issues, both domestic and foreign. It's nod to "rationality" seems awfully perverse to anyone who's able to read the entire thing.

It is irrational to conflate Islam with Islamic extremists. And it is ill-informed to conflate the Turkish government and its policies with Islam.

One of the unique features of Obama's presidency is his willingness to consider a stronger presence for religion in the public square. Bush did propose initiatives, but they were largely cosmetic and the people who were drawn to these programs because of their enthusiasm quit in frustration.

Obama, however, seems quite serious - his first regular paycheck was in fact from the Catholic Church, giving him some substantial experience in the value of religious involvement in public causes.

One of the legacies of 20th-century liberalism has been a strict policing of the line between church and state, but we may be at a point where we can think beyond that. One would think that Christians would applaud that opportunity.

Dustoff| 4.8.09 @ 4:34PM

I've got no problem with ANY religion. It's the fakers and hypocrites that bother me. As it should everyone.
+++++++++++

Looks like Jharp is going to blow a gasket again.

Seeing a doc, would be a good idea.

Mike W| 4.8.09 @ 4:40PM

Christianity is not and has never truly been a political entity. It has been used in politics, but the central truth is that Jesus Christ, the very son of God, came as a human being to earth to live among us and reconcile us to God, our Father and creator. People tried to make him an earthly king, but He already is the King of Kings. His kingdom is not of this world.

There have been atrocities carried out it in His name no doubt. But the failures of mankind should not, and cannot be laid at His feet. True Christian faith teaches love. Jesus said this is the most important commandment. That doesn't mean "tolerance" of sin but a love and compassion for the sinner.

Folks like David deserve our compassion and prayers because there is a hell. Why would anyone that denied God or hated him want to spend eternity with Him?

America is a great country because we have adhered to and lived by Christian values. I would offer that our tragedies and faults are a result of our failing to live up to those values at different times in our history.

Bob| 4.8.09 @ 4:44PM

Ryan -- well stated. I said that Hitler was a Christian because he claimed to be one. There is a difference between being "a Christian" and being "Christian". I accept your distinction and explanation and have no disagreement with it. Furthermore, your claim that Muslims have a very large problem is accurate and on target. I just have a problem putting ALL Muslims under the same umbrella and blaming the religion rather than the people who claim to be that religion. That was the genesis of the Hitler commentary. Furthermore, I am absolutely no expert in being Christian, but facts are facts and Hitler did claim he was one. Sorry Dai....

Alan Brooks| 4.8.09 @ 4:52PM

Muslims CAN have more fun.

multiple wives, concubines.
underaged sometimes.

we don't want to be TOO judgemental of those who are different. If Abdul wants sleep with a 13 year old girl (or once in a while a very good-looking boy) it is not for us to judge.

Alan Brooks| 4.8.09 @ 4:54PM

oops, judgmental, not judgemental.
we wouldnt want anyone to think we weren't well brought up!

jr| 4.8.09 @ 4:59PM

What does bare arms fashion plate Michelle think about women having to wear tents over themselves - black in 105 degree weather? I'd like to see her hide herself and mouth under a burqa. (Why does this website underline my word - burqa?)

Bob| 4.8.09 @ 5:11PM

Alan, I was watching a documentary on Jesus by theologians on the Discovery Channel this weekend -- they have an entire series. They surmise that Mary was probably only 13 years old or so since that is when women were taken as wives in the time. One of the more interesting, non-related facts was that the monk who put together the calendar, made a mistake in the calculation and our calendar is probably about 4 years off. They also had great insights of what it was like to grow up in Jesus small town. I find these things fascinating.

Todd| 4.8.09 @ 5:16PM

Bob,
"Todd, fact is not a false point. Can you prove that most Muslims believe that non-Muslims should die?"

Once again you twist someone's word to try to make your argument look better, that is why I say you are guilty of sophistry. You know I said nothing like that as in fact I said it was a minority of Muslims that are willing to kill for their religion but it is a big enough number that everyone should be very concerned about it. It is no secret that their are many mosques where this hatred is preached all over the World, including in this very country. The only Christian churches I can think of that preach such hate are the Rev Wright variety, which btw is very anti-semitic and supportive of Islam and Palestine.

Obama thinking he can make nice with these kinds of deranged people in Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc shows just how very naive he is and will inevitably lead to disastrous consequences. And just what the hell was that bow to the Saudi King? It was clearly a bow, his head was down and his knee bent and his head was well below the King's whatever the spin it is given. What a sad joke, I can only imagine what the Islamic fanatics must think of our very weak naive President.

Big Leo| 4.8.09 @ 5:21PM

Bob, I have a newsflash for you. Hitler lied. Who'd have thought it? Accepting what people say in political campaigns at face value isn't a very intelligent trait, don't you think?

Big Leo| 4.8.09 @ 5:24PM

I read an earlier troll dropping and had a sudden vision of the resident troll sitting out in the 110 degree desert I live in wearing a black tent and telling us how cool he was. I'd pay good money to see that.

Nick| 4.8.09 @ 5:24PM

Bob,

Again, when did Hitler claim he was Christian? You never answered that question.
Also, you wrote that he claimed be a Christian "until his death", not simply "...that Hitler was a Christian because he claimed to be one." Where is your proof. It is your claim that you have to defend, not Hitler's. Nice try at obfuscation.

Yes, I know you like to call good "evil" and evil "good".

Apparently you don't know this Bob, but Jefferson was in France when the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights were written. So what does some obscure letter Jefferson wrote to some Baptists have to do with how the Constitution was formed?

Bob| 4.8.09 @ 5:31PM

Todd, I'm glad you agree that a majority of Muslims aren't willing to kill for their religion. That's a step forward. Furthermore, I agree with you on Obama -- I was repulsed by his bow to the Saudi King. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, but in this case that is impossible to do. I don't know what was going through his mind.

Todd| 4.8.09 @ 5:31PM

Also Bob, even the Muslim friends of mine tend to be very anti-semitic even if they don't want to kill them. I was there in Indonesia for the Lebanon war a few years back and most of them buy into the Palestinian propaganda and how Israel is to blame for everything. It was nearly impossible to have a rational argument about it so I avoided discussing it so as not to engender bad feelings. Frankly, I don't blame them too much as they have been propagandized their whole lives to hate Jews and Israel (and the US government to a lesser degree). I should say that as a Christian, I felt very little animosity from them and that was never an issue. That is a different story in the Middle East I am sure.

Nick| 4.8.09 @ 5:38PM

Actually, jackass-harp, you wrote: "Absent the black, wish is often the case..."

It's not Leo's fault you can't type! Or express a coherent thought.

Religion all lies| 4.8.09 @ 5:41PM

What is Christianity? is it another way of keeping people ignorant, and stupid? Perhaps another form of control.

I see how the same people who wrote the Bible, have managed to control the media, the Banks, and sad Goyims lives, eventually they will just lead them to slaughter.

Peter McGrath| 4.8.09 @ 5:44PM

Of course, one would vainly hope that our Chief Moral Coward could say, in the next breath after he affirms Islam, that he condems common practices and customs of many Islamic nations (such as infanticide, torture, suppression of women, censorship, persecution of non-Muslims, heinous penalties for petty offenses, etc.) No - not our President nor, sadly, his predecessor. Until those in the West - with moral conviction - are capable of decrying the barbaric practices common to many Islamic nations, such cruelties will continue, unabated - and even encouraged (with petro-dollars).

Big Leo| 4.8.09 @ 5:47PM

Religion all lies, your referral to the Goyim makes me suspect you are Jewish, or pretending to be. Or perhaps you are an antisemite ("the people who wrote the Bible, control the media, the banks, etc.) Either way, you have no rational point. Are you aware that all of the Bible (with the exception of possibly Luke) was written by Jews? As a Christian who is a quarter Jewish, I'm proud of that.

Angel| 4.8.09 @ 5:52PM

Hitler claimed he was a Christian/Bob claims to be a RINO/Fiscal Conservative: Which is the bigger lie?

Angel| 4.8.09 @ 5:55PM

Funny that liberals blame Christianity for so much death, when Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, Castro and HITLER are/were all atheists. How many millions did they torture and murder, stupid trolls?

Big Leo| 4.8.09 @ 5:56PM

I claim to be the King of the Universe, so bow before me, you peasants. And of course that is the truth. Have I ever lied to you before?

Todd| 4.8.09 @ 5:59PM

To further debunk Bob's claim of Hitler being a Christian and how he actually admired Muslim beliefs.

In the political relations with the churches in Germany however, Hitler readily adopted a strategy "that suited his immediate political purposes".[289] According to some, Hitler had a general plan, even before the rise of the Nazis to power, to destroy Christianity within the Reich.[292][293][294] The leader of the Hitler Youth stated "the destruction of Christianity was explicitly recognized as a purpose of the National Socialist movement" from the start, but "considerations of expedience made it impossible" publicly to express this extreme position.[295]

Hitler expressed admiration for the Muslim military tradition and directed Himmler to initiate Muslim SS Divisions as a matter of policy.[306] According to one confidant, Hitler stated in private, "The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness ..."[307]

Hitler once stated, "We do not want any other god than Germany itself. It is essential to have fanatical faith and hope and love in and for Germany."[308]

Alan Brooks| 4.8.09 @ 6:08PM

'Religion All Lies' is Daphne Kenward; she suffers from menstruation of the mind.

now watch, a whole bunch of spam in my name will appear-- hell hath no fury.

ruth| 4.8.09 @ 6:15PM

Gross.

Nick| 4.8.09 @ 6:19PM

HA-HAAAAH, HA-HAAAAH!!!

Nick| 4.8.09 @ 7:41PM

Bob,

Seems your busy trying to find evidence that doesn't exist, huh?

When you give up, could you explain why it is wrong to assume Jews are bankers, financiers, and media moguls; but it is OK to assume Mexican drug dealers and mafioso are Catholic?

Paul McGrath| 4.8.09 @ 7:59PM

Todd,

Good points. As Big Leo pointed out, perhaps the best way to determine whether Hitler was a Christian or not is to view the way he treated them in conquered Poland. Something like 40% of Polish priests were murdered or imprisoned under their German masters. Murdering and imprisoning Catholic priests is not typically considered appropriate Christian behavior.

Paul McGrath| 4.8.09 @ 8:04PM

Bob,

I do understand your point. You did not intend to disparage Christianity. Here is your comment:

"If you understood my point about Hitler, then you know that it wasn't a statement about Christians, it was a statement that there can be bad people anywhere and that blaming Islam for the minority of people who are terrorists is not intellectually sound. "

But you DO disparage Christianity by spreading an all too common falsehood. Furthermore, falsehood which is easily debunked.

Claiming that Hitler was a Christian because he expediently claimed to be one early in his pernicious political career is akin to accusing Obama of being a Muslim because he attended a mosque in his childhood.

Both statements ignore the vast sweep of history, and focus on minor, inconsequential events.

deedee| 4.8.09 @ 8:21PM

Islam: religion of peace my ass. Islamists are the only ones slashing off people's heads.

Nick| 4.8.09 @ 8:25PM

Mr. McGrath,

Actually, Bob's original comment was: "Hitler [WAS] a Christian, not an atheist. Here's what he said: ..."; not: "Hitler [CLAIMED] he was a Christian..." as he tried to back-peddle later.

patt| 4.8.09 @ 9:24PM

Bob has stated repeatedly that Hitler was a Christian because Hitler said so. Bob takes Hitler at his word--it's more than I do Bob's claim that he's a RINO/Fiscal Conservative.

Bill| 4.8.09 @ 9:54PM

Patt & Bob

The issue here is not one of opinion but of facts. Hitler was an enemy of the Chruch and of Christianity. He was a fan of Nietzsche (of "God is dead fame") and executioner of Detrich Bonhoeffer (Christian pastor).

Here is Hitler on Christianity:

"National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things."

Bob make an interesting comment regarding Mexican drug lords being Christians. Without a shred of evidence he makes this claim as an effort to milign Christianity. Look Bob, you are entitiled to your own opinion regarding Christianity but please let us try to stick to the facts.

Daphne| 4.8.09 @ 10:22PM

Bob is nuts--it's pointless to try to appeal to him rationally. He's a liar and a bigot, too. I guess you can tell that I'm a big fan of Bob. I'm not.

Osamas Pajamas| 4.9.09 @ 1:59AM

Irony: I am a libertarian and an atheist, and I am far safer in a nominally Judeo-Christian culture than I would be in any Muslim culture. That's because Christians are far more tolerant of intellectual diversity than Muslims are.

Such observations do annoy the left-wing atheists, of course, but probably that is because their religion is collectivism and their church is government and their god is the thug of the moment ---- whichever predatory humanitarian will hijack the most wealth and "spread it around."

The Religious lie| 4.9.09 @ 6:59AM

Religion is like a play, written by a Jewish playwrite, the Bildergerg group gets the actors, the Bankers as the Directors.

The Play is about control, and how gain power.
The lie and the truth is never far apart. Sometimes just switch them around.

Hence the Bible writers wrote one script for the Goyims, and a seperate one for themselves the Tora.

Bob| 4.9.09 @ 7:19AM

Todd -- you want to deal with facts? Here are more facts:

"In public statements, especially at the beginning of his rule, Hitler frequently spoke positively about the Christian heritage of German culture and his belief in the "Aryan" Christ. Joachim Fest wrote, "Hitler knew, through the constant invocation of the God the Lord (German: Herrgott) or of providence (German: Vorsehung), to make the impression of a godly way of thought." He used his "ability to simulate, even to potentially critical Church leaders, an image of a leader keen to uphold and protect Christianity," according to Ian Kershaw. Kershaw adds that Hitler by this ability also succeeded in appeasing possible Church resistance to anti-Christian Nazi Party radicals. For example, on March 23, 1933, he addressed the Reichstag: "The National Government regards the two Christian confessions (i.e. Catholicism and Protestantism) as factors essential to the soul of the German people. ... We hold the spiritual forces of Christianity to be indispensable elements in the moral uplift of most of the German people." At one point he described his religious status: "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so."

Todd, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts. As other right wing zealots have done, you don't consider the complexities of issues. I know you don't want to admit the truth, but here it is.

I would surely agree that his actions were not "Christian". However, the body of evidence does support the contention that he, indeed, was a self proclaimed Christian.

If you have an education, I would suggest using it.

Daphne, can you prove any place that I have lied? You cannot because I have not. Bigotry is in the eye of the beholder. Anyone who does not agree with you is obviously a bigot.

The Life of a Goyim| 4.9.09 @ 7:24AM

Christians, murder, Rape, Steal, they lie. Then go to some Church where the Minister is doing the same thing. They then go out to Vote for even a bigger Beast, who fills them with false promises.

The life and times of a Mad Goyims. Then they think they should hate any one who is not of the same Religion, or Race, or Class, Goyims are easily lead, lead by money and greed, and eventually they will all be distroyed.

Daphne| 4.9.09 @ 7:34AM

Bob.

I think your article was fantastic, I don't know who posted, to say I disagreed with you.

War is about MONEY| 4.9.09 @ 8:14AM

Hitler Stated he was a Christian, he also got much support from the Catholic Church in his activities, towards the Jewish people.

But one has also to understand that Hitlers attitude towards the Jewish people, was not intentionally bad, he was trying to protect them so they could be sent to form the Israel they have today.

The Jewish Bankers in America sponcered and funded Hitlers activities, which also includes Herbert Walker Bush. Many Jewish people died because they did not want to leave Germany.

The fact they were in Camps spread desease, many died from starvation. Hitler did not come up with the idea himself, the Rothchild Bankers wanted to create a State of Israel in Palestine, the Bankers offered Britain Money to fund the war if they agreed to give them Palestine. They also promised to get America into the second world war, and that is how they would win.

So the real story is out there, but there is more behind the story than anyone can tell.

The so called Christians, are being played for money and power. How we behave towards one another is important, when one group is deliberately set up against his fellow man it's evil.
Tools used is Religious divisions, the oldest trick in the BOOK.

JamesJ| 4.9.09 @ 8:35AM

Arab countries were once among the world's leaders in mathematics, archetecture, astrology, etc. Then along came Muhammed (circa 700 AD).

World War 3 is coming| 4.9.09 @ 8:46AM

Why did the RICH BANKERS want the happy Jewish people living in Germany moved to Palestine? The answer is simple for thinking smart people.

Once the Jewish people was in their land Palestine, the Bankers knew it would be the cause of wars. And Europe was Bankrupt from wars amongst themselves now it was the turn of the middle East, till they are Bankrupt.

America is now Bankrupt, so the next way to make money now is between China, and the Middle East. Get Europe and America so desperate, they will be trying to fight of the Chinese people from Arab resources. The people behind the seens don't care about Jews or Gentiles. It's about Money and Control.

Nick| 4.9.09 @ 9:31AM

Bob,

I'm still waiting for the proof of your allegation that Hitler claimed he was a Christian "until his death"; and what Jefferson's obscure letter to some Baptists, 14 years after the constituion was written, has to do with the meaning of the 1st amendment. Especially since Jefferson was in France when the constitution was written.

And what's the source of these quotes of yours? Usually when someone uses quotation marks they cite whom they're quoting. Are they from the utterly false "Hitler's Pope" and you're afraid to tell us?

Nick| 4.9.09 @ 9:42AM

Or are they from "The DaVinci Code"?

Bob| 4.9.09 @ 9:43AM

Nick, don't you know enough about search engines to find this yourself? Here's one of the summaries where I took some quotes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler's_religious_beliefs

With regard to Jefferson, the letter to the Danbury Baptists is NOT obscure if you know anything about Constitutional history. It is referenced on numerous occasions. It was the first known use of the phrase "separation of church and state". It might do you well to learn more about the founding of our country:

http://www.usconstitution.net/jeffwall.html

Nick, you are certainly proof that social conservatives are anti-intellectual.

Michele San Pietro| 4.9.09 @ 9:55AM

It's clear that Obama is an islamic fundamentalist in his soul.

Hitler is dead & History alive| 4.9.09 @ 9:58AM

Nick.

Hitler was 1/2 Jew, Hitler was also associated to the Catholic Church. The pope of the time sent Hitler his blessing in his war efforts, that was not against the Jewish people, but to gain control over the whole of Europe.

Well History says he could have avoided it because now we have a unified European Union.

Hitler knew what was important was control of Europe. The trouble is now Europe has nothing except people, and they are consumers like America. Europe has one problem how do they grow? People buying getting into debt, they have no resources except people.

What would you do if that was all you had, imagine you had lots of children and no food. People invent wealth, what is wealth wealth is resources, paper money is what you use to aquire goods and services, do you understand.

The countries America goes to war with is the countries who has wealth such as resources, Oil, Gold, Uranium, all kinds of minerals.

The people in the rest of the world is fighting for survival. Israel is protected by America, because they are their source of reason to subdue the people in the Arab world that is why they were put there in the first place. That is why they get money and WMD it's so they can protect themselves so they Spy on the Arabs, that is their function. But the Israelis Syp on America because they know what the game is.

The world today is not about Hitler, it's about the Bankers and the Arms Manufacturers profits. American Soldiers are just the people used to die for their end game, and the Oil industries profit from their deaths. Hitler, the Pope is not the problem, your problem is to wake up and use your own brain and mind to see the facts looking you in the face.

identifier| 4.9.09 @ 10:30AM

to this idiot David Matthews...why dont you pack your anti american ass off to one of the muslim countries you love so much so they can cut off your liberal head. Shut up...you are making yourself out to sound like the dumbass you probably are. i guess Muslim genocide is ok with you.

Todd| 4.9.09 @ 10:34AM

Bob,
I don't know what facts you say I am making up, those are historical quotes that can be backed up. You hide the weakness of your argument behind the "complexities" of the issue, typical trick of the sophist. Hitler viewed true Christianity as his biggest threat to acquiring complete control of Germany and implementing his anti-Christ agenda and systematically destroyed true Christianity in Germany. Those Churches that did not get in line with his agenda were destroyed and their Pastors killed, that is a historical fact Bob. Sure Hitler may have proclaimed himself a Catholic but he was no Christian that is for damn sure, he was a demagogue and a liar of the worst sort. Just like Obama would not openly say he is a socialist out of political expediency, Hitler would not openly say he was anti-Christian.

I may not have your Ivy League education Bob but I do have an MBA and I know a false argument when I see one such as your Hitler and the Mexican drug lords are Christians. You should be ashamed of yourself for saying such blatant lies but I don't think you are capable of shame.

Nick| 4.9.09 @ 11:14AM

Bob,

Again, where is the proof of your allegation that Hitler claimed he was Christian "until his death"? It's a simple question.

What a surprise! Wiki as "SOURCE"! And another shock, you cherry pick the citations which back your false allegations. Are you just simply a propagandist, or are you also anti-Christian? Like I wrote yesterday, you want Hitler to be a Christian. It fits your prejudice.

By the way, why are you afraid to give ALL your sources?

I wasn't the one who didn't know Jefferson was in France when the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights were written, Bob. His letter, written 10 years after the adoption of the 1st amendment, is not a treatise on the Establishment Clause as law. It is his personal opinion about how State legislatures should treat all religions. And it was an obscure letter until Justice Hugo Black (Everson v. Board of Education, 1947) and liberals decided to use it as code language to get religion out of the public sphere.

You are the one who needs educating on the founding of this Great Country.

Bob| 4.9.09 @ 11:27AM

Todd -- I'm glad you agree with me. To wit:

"Sure Hitler may have proclaimed himself a Catholic but he was no Christian that is for damn sure,"

That's exactly what I said. It was a correction to those that claimed Hitler was an atheist. Get over it.

Nick, I don't care if Hitler was a Christian or not. I look at people's behavior. However, the truth is that he did claim to be a Christian. By the way, of course I knew that Jefferson was in France, but he had a great deal of input into the tenets of the Constitution. He also thought that the Constitution should contain the Bill of Rights.

By the way, where are your sources? Why are YOU afraid to list them?

Nick| 4.9.09 @ 11:42AM

Bob,

"Nick, I don't care if Hitler was a Christian or not." Translation: "I didn't know what I was talking about when I wrote Hitler claimed he was Christian UNTIL HIS DEATH." Why can't you be man enough and admit, Bob? He was no Christian and you are a propagandist.

How did Jefferson have " a great deal of input into the tenets of the Constitution" while he was in France and letters took months to be delivered? And what does that have to do with the bogus "separation of church and state" argument?

Sources? What sources? The only person I have quoted is you, back to yourself, Bob.

Bob| 4.9.09 @ 11:55AM

Nick, of course you listed statements without sources. What are they? Of course I knew the difference between being "a Christian" and being "Christian". In fact, I said that early in the process. But then again, you don't seem to know how to do your homework.

Read through this and the other blog where this came up and you can find that post if you don't believe me.

While Jefferson was Minister to France at the time of the Constitution, he did constantly communicate his thoughts including that he wanted the Bill of Rights to be part of it as well as term limits for the Presidency. But wait, you didn't realize you could write letters back then?

Nick| 4.9.09 @ 12:20PM

Bob,

Now you're obfuscating with incoherent babble.
I've only quoted you, so you are my source, Bob.
I never wrote you didn't know the "difference between being 'a Christian' and being 'Christian'."

I just repeatedly asked for proof of your false allegation that Hitler claimed he was Christian "until his death". Then I caught you cherry picking WIKI to spread your propaganda that Hitler was a Christian. You ignored the citations that show he wasn't, like a good propagandist does.

And what other blog are you talking about?

More obfuscation. I asked you how Jefferson had input into the CONSTITUTION, not the Bill of Rights. Why can't you address my questions? Also, why won't you defend your adherance to the bogus "separation" argument?

The Wickster| 4.9.09 @ 1:15PM

If all the Muslims covert to Christianity and then turn around and kill all the Liberals the world would be a much better place.

Dai Alanye| 4.9.09 @ 1:26PM

I believe Bob is an intelligent man (after all, he's repeatedly told us so himself) but he can't make a rational argument to save his soul.

His technique is to pick a comfortable conclusion then search for facts that buttress it, ignoring or denying those that don't suit his needs. The proper way, of course, is to look at all the facts, analyze them, THEN reach a conclusion. But the Bobster seems constitutionally unable to start the process at the proper end.

This cognitive weakness leads him to endlessly defend foolish statements such as, *I voted for Obama because he is so intelligent* and *Hitler was a Christian.* Had he started with a thorough examination of the facts he would never have said (or done) those silly things in the first place.

There is also something unseemly about an American Jew charging Christians with having helped Hitler kill European Jews. And this, of course, is part of the motivation behind his attempts to Christianize Adolph.

Bob| 4.9.09 @ 1:33PM

Dai, I wouldn't dare take the that technique away from you. After all, when you believe without reason, you have already come to the conclusion, right?

Analytical weaknesses like yours are bound to lead to wrong conclusions. I didn't have to "Christianize" Hitler, he "Christianized" himself. And of course, jumping to the conclusion that I charged Christians with killing Jews shows both your intellectual weakness, but your moral weakness as well.

Hitler claimed to be Christian -- that is just a fact. Live with it. I guess when the truth collides with your beliefs, it is the truth that suffers the consequences.

W. James Antle III| 4.9.09 @ 2:05PM

I think it's pretty well established that Hitler self-described as a Christian and used some Christian imagery/language in both his speeches and Mein Kampf. But there isn't much evidence he actually believed in core Christian doctrines. He also, as his power grew, made anti-Christian statements, tolerated anti-Christian statements by others around him, and increased his use of pagan imagery.

Nick| 4.9.09 @ 2:23PM

Bob,

But you falsely claimed "Hitler was a Christian" at first. Then when called on it, you falsely claimed Hitler "claimed" he was a Christian "until his death".

And now, like a cornered rat, you scurry away to argue with someone else who may not know everything you've written on this thread.

Why can't you defend what you've written? And why can't you answer simple questions? Are you a man or a mouse, Bob?

Nick| 4.9.09 @ 2:43PM

For those of you following along at home, Bob's first lie was posted at: Bob| 4.8.09 @ 10:29AM. "Hitler was a Christian, not an atheist."

His second lie was at: Bob| 4.8.09 @ 12:48PM. "Bram, I know you want to believe that Hitler was not Christian, but his writings and statements claim that he was until his death. "

And he never once tried to defend his calumny that Mexican drug dealers and mafioso, who cut off heads as punishment, are "Catholics".

Nick| 4.9.09 @ 2:56PM

"I guess when the truth collides with your beliefs, it is the truth that suffers the consequences."- Bob

Quack, heal thyself.

Bob| 4.9.09 @ 3:01PM

Nick, read what Antle said -- it was the same a I did. Are you going to question him? I didn't think so. And I stand by my statement that Hitler was a Christian. There is no statement by him that he was an atheist. With regard to Mexicans and Italian Mafia -- are you claiming they were not primarily Catholics? I never said that Hitler "was Christian", I said that he "was a Christian". It is not up to me to decide the latter. However, the former is a matter of claim. Antle is correct. You are wrong. Give it up.

Nick| 4.9.09 @ 4:03PM

Bob,

Yes, Mr. Antle is correct, clear, and coherent in what he wrote. However, what he wrote and what you did are not the same. Your qotes are above.

Your lie was writing, "Hitler was a Christian...". You didn't say he CLAIMED to be a Christian; or that he WAS a Christian, as in he used to be one but left the Church. Your intent was to smear Christians with the boogy man of the left under the guise of rebutting someone who said Hitler was an atheist.

And when called on it, you uttered your second lie about Hitler CLAIMING he was a Christian UNTIL HIS DEATH. Ever since then I have repeatedly asked for some proof of this falsehood and you have refused to give any. Which is because there is none.

All you did was cherry pick WIKI and atheist/anti-Catholic sites to try to buttress your falsehoods. And then obfuscate.

Finally, now you qualify your calumny with "primarily". You didn't use this adverb in your original post. As I stated in an earlier post, Catholicism is not an ethnicity, it is a choice. So yes, I claim they were not Roman Catholic by their actions.

Were they baptized Catholics, "primarily"? I would have no way of knowing, so I wouldn't slur a whole group of people without knowing like some bigot. What were Bugsy Seigel and Meyer Lansky, by the way?

Hitler is an example of M/East| 4.9.09 @ 4:10PM

The reason people don't like Hitler he was a murderer, he killed people. Bush started an illegal war he also killed people, he claimed he was Christian, Christians kill Moslems, the Catholics Killed Protestants.

Who has Obama killed? People will always find a reason to kill one another.

Life is too simple for ordinary folks, they have to find excitement, it's a shame their excitement is another mans sorrow.

All mankind has the ability to be kind to each other, or evil to others, History is full of examples of it, and many said they were Christians.

The question is by whose standards?

El Wayne| 4.9.09 @ 4:12PM

El Wayne here…and I have come to break the back of Satan with my very own knee. That is, the Satan that rules in your life. WHAT’S that you say El Wayne? Yes folks, while it’s true that I rarely grace these august blogs with my humble wit and writing abilities, I nevertheless can no longer sit idly by while you Nerolean idiots fiddle your way into hell. That’s a bit brash El Wayne you may say, but here it is ladies & joyms: All of us, and I do mean all of us, here in this blog “O” sphere are doing nothing more than pissing in the proverbial wind-our vain attempts at profundification. Who amongst us doesn’t hope for that 15 minutes of fame, that book contract heck even a call from TAS staff to write the next erudite addition in the columnist category? Come on admit it….I will I’ve been aching for a long time to mangle profundity and erudition. I want to prove you all wrong and me right and so do you. All of you do it. But what the heck are we doing here? Chatting, blogging, sniffing, snorting, whah, whah, whah….hey here’s a title “Blogging towards Gomorrah.” Anyhootie, lets look at it like this: There probably is no God and there (ergo) probably is no hell, Gee do we want to risk eternity wondering how we probably got it wrong or probably almost got it right…???...probably not. My teeth can barely stand a life of gnashing let alone eternity. Eternal Bruxism….now there’s a tag-line.

Greg| 4.9.09 @ 4:13PM

In regards to who is and who isn't, it is always easy to say you are something for support from people, when in fact you are far from being that.

Patsy| 4.9.09 @ 4:33PM

Obama's support for infanticide has helped kill 51 million babies. I hold him responsible for their deaths.

Angel| 4.9.09 @ 4:35PM

Good job, Nick. Kick Bob's lying butt!

BHO| 4.9.09 @ 4:36PM

GREG
In regards to who is and who isn't, it is always easy to say you are something for support from people, when in fact you are far from being that.

Why you be so cryptic dude...this sounds like you be slammin me?

Angel| 4.9.09 @ 4:47PM

Nick, when you isolate Bob and focus on skewering him and his lies, he always folds. He's a nasty little troll who is a true hater. You can tell he hates Christians; he never misses a chance to attack and disparage us with his vicious lies. Reminds me of his sick treatment of Governor Palin. Dude's got mental health issues. Thanks for your loyal defense of Christianity, Nick. Hope you have a joyous Easter.

El Wayne| 4.9.09 @ 4:51PM

Dear AS editors: I propose that we take a vote to add an additional "O" to Bob's name. Any takers? Bob shut up and sit down-fool!

El Wayne| 4.9.09 @ 4:54PM

That's "Boob" shut up and sit down-fool!

Angel| 4.9.09 @ 5:07PM

Yeah, bein' a bettin' girl, I figure it's 50/50 chances on the existence of a hereafter--so I've decided to be decent here on earth; so I win either way upon my demise. That, and a little Faith, Hope and Charity guide my way through this troubled realm.

El Wayne| 4.9.09 @ 5:51PM

Good for you aptly named Angel. You just proclaimed your belief in our Savior. Godbless and Happy Easter. I feel bad (in a good way) about calling Bob a Boob. Sorry Bob...Happy Passover! See how goodness spreads...thanx! Angel

Nick| 4.9.09 @ 6:03PM

Angel,

Thank you so much! May You and Your Family Also Have a Happy Easter.
You too El Wayne. God Bless.

Grow up people| 4.9.09 @ 7:41PM

Patsy.

The only person you need to hold responsible is your own actions.

If you had an abortion, you could'nt take Obama to court for your actions.

Americans have a long way to go when it comes to reality.

It's the same as the gun laws, you shoot some one dead you are the one going to the gas chamber no one else, you are responsible for your actions alone.

Arlene| 4.9.09 @ 7:42PM

Bob,

A Christian is a follower of Christ, not merely a professor of Christ. A Christian is a person who has repented of his sins, been baptized in Jesus' name for the remission of those sins, and received the gift of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit then enables him to put on the mind and behavior of Christ.

It is God who judges the heart, and therefore he knows who is truly one of his. We humans who cannot see another person's heart are told that we may know who the Christians are by the love they have for one another, and even for their enemies.

Someone who tortures and murders millions of people is no Christian, no matter what he calls himself. Satan is the father of lies, and he and his demons disguise themselves as angels of light. So it is to be expected that Hitler would claim to be Christian.

Matt. 7:15-23 is instructive in this matter. We are told to watch for false prophets, and that we will know them by their fruits.

Then Christ says "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, "I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Hitler's actions proved that he was not a Christian. Herr Hitler's deeds, not his words, are what count. That is what the Bible says.

Amen Ra| 4.9.09 @ 8:05PM

There is no heaven or hell, it's a myth, like all old folk lore. You can have a good life, or a bad life.

Like there is light, there is day, there is good and there is bad. There is the sun and there is the moon.

The Moon is the female, the Sun is the man. Amon Ra, Ray of sunshine, A'moon, Armon, it's about language. Some say Amen, means the end off, the sun is gone and the moon takes over.

Each full moon = 13 months, each women cycle =13 months. There is no heaven or hell it's an invention, by men. There is the laws of moses, who takes any notice of it?
Thou shalt not steal, the Bankers what do you think they have been doing?

What was Bush doing in Iraq stealing Iraqi Oil for XXon, Shell, BP, and so on.
Thou shalt not kill, what was Bush sending people out to do, for oil, and their fake Bin Layden.

Thou shalt not kill, how many people died on 9/11 that Bush helped to plan, with Mossad. If these people was infear of going to hell would they commit these crimes?

Every country that has Oil America has invaded, or thinking about invading.

Thou shall not state false witness, what was George Bush doing when he told the lie to go to war in Iraq. What was he doing when he lied to remove the rights of the people, so as to spy on them. Why would your government want to spy on you, to find out what you know, and you don't tell anyone else. Why does the government want people to have an ID Card so they can plant false evidence against it's citizens.

Patsy| 4.9.09 @ 8:08PM

Grow up people, wise up. Liberal enablers like Obama pressure young frightened women to abort their babies because it's seen as the thing to do. Obama's a monster--just like you would be if you encouraged a person contemplating suicide to jump. You pro-aborts are death enablers of babies. What comes around, goes around--someday it will be your turn.

Pam| 4.9.09 @ 10:01PM

Of course there is no God; we created the universe by ourselves, including the earth and the human race. We don't need God--look how well we're doing on our own. So many morons, so little time.

Dai Alanye| 4.9.09 @ 10:11PM

The Bobster seems to assume that anyone who challenges his "Christian Hitler" claim is a fundamentalist Christian. Not in my case, at least. Although I respect and honor Christianity and sincere Christians, I am not religiously active.

The poor deluded soul also seems to believe that all fundamentalist Christians vote Republican. Would that it were true, for BO would never have seen the inside of the oval office. But no—surveys indicate that somewhere northward of 40% of fundamentalists were, like Bob himself, deluded into voting for the Muslim candidate.

Curtis Rasmussen| 4.9.09 @ 11:15PM

I am not white. I am not a Christian. However, I see that this country is based upon sound Judeo-Christian values which has made it into a free and prosperous country unlike any seen before. Although my ancestors were enslaved and forcibly relocated to this continent, I'd rather be here now than anywhere else.

It's time to ignore the banal and irrelevant rantings of Dave MCdouche Mathews. I ask all to stop responding as this guy gets some kind of twisted rush from it. Let him rant, ignore him.

Todd| 4.10.09 @ 12:00AM

Great attitude Curtis, it is unfortunate more people don't share it and put the past behind us and realize what a great country this is and has been since its founding despite its flaws. I really cannot believe that Obama could be elected after the fact that he went to Rev Wright's Church for 20 years became known, I find that very sad. I would actually prefer an honest moderate Muslim as President than a dishonest Christian who attended an American hating Church for so long.

Yes we should ignore that idiot but I do enjoy making fun of his sorry ass. I will never argue a point with him, just tell him he is a stupid troll loser.

Angel| 4.10.09 @ 12:01AM

Mr. Rasmussen, you are gracious, sir; thank you for your comment. Please don't be a stranger.

Todd| 4.10.09 @ 12:02AM

I should say an honest moderate Muslim who respects our Consititution and our Judeo-Christian values which Obama does not in my opinion.

Angel| 4.10.09 @ 12:13AM

I love our country very much, even with all of its faults. How heartbreaking it would be to lose it. I pray to God every night and ask Him for His mercy and guidance. Forgiveness and grace: We are in dire need of both. Lord, God please forgive us for we have turned our backs on You. Please help us find our way back to You. Amen.

Tim| 4.10.09 @ 12:24PM

Perhaps many years from now we will look back at the Obama era as the best thing that ever happened to Christianity and it's rebirth in America if not the World.

Usually most folks don't get off their ass until they outlaw or trample something they really love or hold dear.

It is what it is.

Good Friday Blessings to all people of good will and especially to my Christian Brothers and Sisters.

Tim| 4.11.09 @ 12:33AM

Remember the "my muslim faith" gaffe? There can be only one reason ObamaHitler would wage war on Christians yet publicly masturbate his goodwill toward muslims...

He's one of Them

How long until the concentration camps and gas ovens and firing squads warm up?

Glau Montgomery| 4.11.09 @ 7:30AM

"Nice try bob, Hiltler was a Christian, LMAO. I must have missed the book of the Bible where EXTERMINATION of God's chosen people is authorized."

That's ok, I didn't.

Deuteronomy Chapter 2: 32-37

And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have begun to give Sihon and his land before thee: begin to possess, that thou mayest inherit his land. 32 Then Sihon came out against us, he and all his people, to fight at Jahaz. 33 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. 34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain. 36 From Aroer, which is by the brink of the river of Arnon, and from the city that is by the river, even unto Gilead, there was not one city too strong for us: the LORD our God delivered all unto us

Didn't the Jews lose holy status when "they killed" Jesus?

Happy Easter| 4.11.09 @ 9:05AM

The Roman & the Jews, how they plotted and killed Christ.

Today we have the American & the Jews plot to kill the world.

Sahaqiel| 4.11.09 @ 11:10AM

I'll read past the first paragraph when it's not clearly biased so far into the right wing that the author's going to fall off the flat earth since his head's still stuck in the dark ages. :|

Nick| 4.11.09 @ 1:11PM

Mr. Montgomery,

It seems you did miss it.

The Jews were and still are the "chosen people of God". Sihon was an Amorite. You have confused the two. Nice try, though.

Tom Mellon| 4.11.09 @ 8:35PM

I have a conservative faith in the "rule of law" and I view Guantanamo as an affront to this.President Bush's lack of concern for a legacy by way of an ellectable Republican Party has played into the hands of the illiberal left and millions of unborn might now pay the price.This is his true failing.

MT| 4.11.09 @ 10:58PM

Uh, Jesus was a Jew; I don't think He has lost favor with His Father. The Jews will always be His 'chosen'. Obama is responsible for any increase in the killings of the innocent pre-born. I hold him completely responsible. Obama is a monster who advocates infanticide..

C1ON| 4.12.09 @ 4:36PM

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C1ON| 4.12.09 @ 4:38PM

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C1ON| 4.12.09 @ 4:41PM

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KGM| 4.13.09 @ 12:07PM

Nora wrote: "I would happily join a new Crusade. Do the actual research and you will see that the Catholic Church was completely right to try to protect the holy land from the marauding bands of ignorant savages....now known as Muslims. They are anti-intellectual, anti-women, anti-literacy barbarians. I'm tired of hearing about all their wonderful cultural gifts to society. It's all complete claptrap."

And yet the author of this article wants us to believe that christian fundementalist like Nora are the reasonable and rational human beings, while the 'liberals' and Muslims are irrational!

Congrats for being that rational as NORA is !

Nick| 4.14.09 @ 12:44PM

Great grammar, kgm.

Steve| 4.16.09 @ 3:59AM

Bob,

"What is wrong with ALL of you on both sides of this? The vast majority in this world are good people." ....

Hitler was a nut. Who cares if he was Christian or not. One man or ever a dozen of them does not represent a religion. He was an extreme bad apple.

Christianity has evolved and is at peace in this world - and has been for a long time. Islam has not evolved one inch in the last 1400 years. It is stuck in the 7th century.

There are NO Christian terrorists. Conservative estimates show that 20 to 40% of Muslims support radical Islamic concepts. I did not say participate in - I said support conceptually. That is not a small insignificant group of people - based on the fact that there are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world today.

There CAN BE peaceful and tolerant Muslims - BUT - there CANNOT BE a peaceful and tolerant Islam. Islam is the only major world religion to promote violence and intolerance against non-believers. When is the world going to call a spade a spade on the Islamic issue. Either Islam seriously embraces change - IE - removes all violence and intolerance against non-believers from its teachings - or it gets labeled for what it is - a dangerous cult.

squidpie1| 4.24.09 @ 9:19PM

To all you Christian bashers out there claiming, Hitler, Stalin,etc were Christians and are therefore representative of Christianity......and to those of your who state this is just a point you are making just like you can't blame all Muslims for the actions of a few.....My question for you is this..When do you ever hear prominent Muslim clergy criticizing those who do harm to others in Islam's name? I can name many of mainline evangelicals and non-denominational prominent Christian ministers denounce acts of violence perpertrated in Christ's name. Bur name me one prominent Imam. Please, I await your response.

Jerod| 8.18.09 @ 12:03PM

I have nothing against muslims, as most from AMERICA are good people, but all the ones in the MIDDLE EAST, are bad. I'm not saying every muslim is a terrorist, but every terrorist we are fighting now, is muslim. So, don't people realize that he's going to be sympathetic towards muslims?! I think in the next couple of years, me and my fellow christians are going to start being taken to concentration camps and stuff, and it is just going to be Nazi germany all over again. This man might very well be the antichrist.

Esther| 8.21.09 @ 12:34AM

I have to admit, I didn't read all of these posts.... But, I can very well say that there is a Holy War going on. But it isn't between Muslims and Christians... It's the same battle that everyone battles with everyday. A battle between good and Evil. Righteousness and Unrighteousness. Christianity is not a religion. It is a way of living. It is , or was; America's way of living. We do not force you to accept Christ as your Savior. Yes He died for you, yes he paid the dept of your sin by accepting the punishment for your sins... but, no man can force you to accept Him or the gift He has freely given to you... and neither will God. He gave you a Free will because He desires all of us to have Freedom. It isn't God's will for us to be in bondage! It's time for every Christian, to put on their armor, pick up their swords and use them, if you don't know what that means... you need to get into a Church and learn what that means. If that Church doesn't know what it means, encourage them to go with you to find a Church that does. If you are an American, like I am, who loves their Freedom stand up with the Christian nation here in the U.S.A., because we all have something in common! We love the U.S.A. and Our Liberty.... I firmly believe it's time we have Justice for all. I'm not saying that the followers of Christ don't need to spend time on their knees in prayer, because we all do, much prayer is needed; however, we also need to take action. Read up on Moses... study the bondage they were in... they had no rights to their bodies, nor their children's... look at why the Israelites were oppressed, and read about what happened when the Government was afraid of them because they continued to flourish. Look specifically at what God told Moses ( the one baby boy who was spared, because of an oppressors daughter), esp. when he was hesitant to do as the Lord asked. Look at what God did. Study Government from a Biblical prospective. And remember the promises that God has promised.
In Him,
Esther

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Johannes Skoldeberg| 9.9.09 @ 5:29PM

Any christians out there! Please Wake up - Explain why the healthcare proposition is a system from hell when it is based on true christian values.

Do you really believe that God´s message on earth only was about the "freedom" of the americans. When I read the way you use the word freedom, I do not actually see the true meaning of freedom. The freedom you talk about is a freedom of rich and, some of you, scared americans who do not see the difference between freedom and wealth. I pray for you to open your eyes and see those who are in need of another kind of freedom.

-Johannes

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Stephen| 10.28.09 @ 10:00PM

I'm waiting for the Christian Take-Over of Christianity. Seriously, do Christians even read the gospels any more?

http://www.whatchannelareyouwa.....chives/312