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Good Sports, Great Sports

By R. Emmett Tyrrell, Jr. on 12.18.08 @ 6:08AM

Why the NFL can't shine the boots of U.S. fighting men.

WASHINGTON -- It is now that time of year when I tune in on the exploits of the National Football League, not the criminal exploits or the soap opera exploits but the real sport of the game. The teams are fighting for berths in the playoffs and ultimately for the Super Bowl. Thus the play becomes more intense and daring. These are superb athletes. We must bear that in mind, despite their many brushes with the law and the fact that many of them make as much money as a Goldman Sachs executive, though more conspicuously.

Yet my enthusiasm for the NFL stars' athleticism has been overshadowed this year by reports of far more prodigious athleticism demonstrated last April by the members of something called Operational Detachment Alpha 3336 of the 3rd Special Forces Group. Their contest took place in Afghanistan's Nuristan province, far from the television cameras and the garrulous commentators. This twelve-man Green Beret team fought a seven-hour battle uphill in a freezing mountainous valley after being pinned down by a couple of hundred or more insurgents. They and a few dozen Afghans, whom they had trained, got out after killing between 150 and 200 of the enemy. Half of the Green Berets were wounded -- four critically. This past week ten of these men received Silver Stars, the largest number of Silver Stars distributed to such a unit for a single battle since the Vietnam War.

"We were pretty much in the open," Staff Sergeant Luis Morales of Fredericksburg, Virginia, told the Washington Post, "there were no trees to hide behind." In the course of the battle he was shot in the thigh while tending to a wounded team member. Then he was shot in the ankle. He kept on fighting. They all did, even Staff Sergeant John Wayne Walding, of Groesbeck, Texas, who saw a bullet nearly amputate his right leg below the knee. Walding is quoted, "I literally grabbed my boot and put it in my crotch, then got the boot laces and tied it to my thigh, so it would not flop around. There was about two inches of meat holding my leg on."

Readers might want to review Walding's statement a couple of more times. These men are not only very tough. They have a presence of mind that is incomparable. I submit they are our greatest athletes. What is more, they perform not for money or celebrity but for love of country and, surely in some cases, to fulfill their historic role as soldiers, ideally as the greatest soldiers. The politically correct might wince, but the heroism of such soldiers adds to life's meaning for them and for those of us who believe there is more to life than the hum and the drum.

Think of their accomplishments. The men of Alpha 3336 can undoubtedly run and hit. They can throw (grenades), and they can catch. But they can also scuba-dive and HALO, that is: leap from aircraft at high altitude (20,000 feet). Then they "low open" (not open their parachutes until, say, at 1000 feet). From 20,000 feet to 1000 feet, carrying as much as 100 pounds of equipment, they scan the ground for a landing location. They need that equipment, for when they land they are on their own. Once on the ground they might kill, but they might also practice diplomacy. With their exhaustive training in foreign languages and in the customs of the country in which they work, they are not only warriors but diplomats intent on winning over the locals against the insurgents nearby. A Green Beret team also includes highly trained medical professionals capable of treating the wounded but also attending to health needs of locals, even their dental needs.

The ancient Greeks considered athletic achievement the result of training and talent but also the result of something more, character. With their Silver Stars on their chests these Green Berets have demonstrated character of the highest order. When the warriors of the NFL shake their fannies in the end zone or their fists in the face of a fallen competitor, I shall be thinking of the men of Alpha 3336. Their example edifies the country and protects it from our enemies.

topics:
Sports, Afghanistan

About the Author

R. Emmett Tyrrell, Jr. is the founder and editor in chief of The American Spectator. He is the author of the forthcoming The Death of Liberalism, published by Thomas Nelson Inc. His previous books include the New York Times bestseller Boy Clinton: the Political Biography; The Impeachment of William Jefferson Clinton; The Liberal Crack-Up; The Conservative Crack-Up; Public Nuisances; The Future that Doesn't Work: Social Democracy's Failure in Britain; Madame Hillary: The Dark Road to the White House; The Clinton Crack-Up; and After the Hangover: The Conservatives' Road to Recovery.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (63) | Leave a comment

Bill Rabe| 12.17.08 @ 5:39PM

What a great article and wonderful way of looking at our fighting forces. I am humbled that these men do what they do to allow me to live in freedom. Thanks for all they do!

WilliamInWien| 12.18.08 @ 7:38AM

What bothers me most about too many "professional" athletes is that they want some form of instant recognition from the fans or their oponents every time they do their job, for which most are highly paid. The volunteer soldiers of which you write do not seek recognition and when they receive it, it is months to years later without endorsements in the offering. They are the true professionals, heros and patriots on the USA. Thanks for bringing more attention to these "Persons" of the Year (in my book).

MarineDad| 12.18.08 @ 7:50AM

I am reminded of a sports clip where Kellen Winslow, Jr. ranted after his perceived unfair treatment while still at the Unversity of Miami. He stated that he was a "warrior" and football was a "war." I also am repulsed by athletes such as Terrel Owens, and that ilk who as athletes, demand placement on pedestals and cry of unfair treatment because they drop a pass. This country has is backwards. The fine young men and women who, like this story represents, are the true athletes and heros deserving of adulation. What is more impressive is that they seek neither recognition or reward. To them goes the praise.

Hooah!| 12.18.08 @ 8:54AM

Thanks Emmett! What a great way to start the day after physical training this morning. De Oppresso Liber!

From Afghanistan| 12.18.08 @ 9:41AM

If you remember Col. David Hackworth's book "about face" , he stated that everything about our soceity teaches a young man to be popular. When he reaches the door step of the U.S. Military we have to teach him to abandon popularity and earn "respect". Our media promotes the popular but this is always a temporary or hollow achievement. Nothing can compare with the respect that our fighting men earn on the battlefield. There is no about of money, fame or fortune that gives a man the right to look another in the eye and truly known that he has earned through leadership by example and personal sacrifice the respect of a fellow warrior.

I am also reminded of the famous quote;
"A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
- John Stuart Mill 's essay "The Contest In America":

These men are the "better" men, enough said!

Howard| 12.18.08 @ 11:01AM

Amazing

dgdc| 12.18.08 @ 11:38AM

If you don't like the athletes and their abysmal behavior then don't watch the game or pay the salaries. People from wall street to the grid iron follow the rewards. Put your money and your time where your mouth is and stop subsidizing behavior you supposedly condem.
If you want to see some fun football games, start going to and supporting the local high school.

Stan Redmond| 12.18.08 @ 12:04PM

Wow!!! Just Wow!!!

Paul Melody| 12.18.08 @ 12:17PM

We are the land of the free because we are the home of the brave. God bless all those in harm's way and their families who are defending our Constitution and our freedoms. We owe them a lot more than money and housing. We owe them a sincere respect and honor.

Ron Pearce| 12.18.08 @ 12:58PM

Amen, as a former member of Special Forces I salute these brave guys. Being a Vietnam Vet and a football fan I take my beret off to you. When I watch football I also salute those who do what they are paid for without the fanfare and hoopala

JOE| 12.18.08 @ 1:08PM

What a wonderful article. I agree 100%. Thanks

J.C.Eaton| 12.18.08 @ 2:23PM

Well said Brother Tyrell. I only wish that we had a country as good as the military that protects it. Airborne!!

mike Troy| 12.18.08 @ 3:01PM

Great article Bobby.

Frank Talk II| 12.18.08 @ 3:22PM

This is a good article in saluting the gallantry of the fighting men in an all volunteer military. Though, the vast majority of veterans particularly in this day of a volunteer military, serve out of a sense of patriotism(duty and honor) and a quietly kept secret for adventure. Previously, I wrote how it is very revealing of this society that our top politicians and business titans talk about duty and national public service; yet, the positions they seek are those of power and privilege. (Being POTUS, U.S. Senator or a Fortune 500 CEO are very privileged positions) Every weekend our most physically fit abled bodied men are playing games (professional football, college football etc.) and the society at large are mesmerized by the spectacle. The citizenry is engaged living vicariously through these athletes with cheering and adulation for their team. What a country. As far as I know, there are only a few professional sports teams (Green Bay Packers being one among the few) that the average fan can possess an equity stake. The overwhelming majority of professional sport teams are privately held corporations. The seriousness attached to these games at times is nauseating. As we mature as individuals and a country, the proper balance of sport and play should be evident in what we emphasize and give our time. As an example of this cultural imbalance emphasis since the 1960's, the two leading pre 60's iconic figures of popular entertainment: Elvis (popular music) and Ted Williams (baseball) both had a sense of duty to serve at the height of their popularity. Yes, it is nice to be appreciated; however, the vast majority of veterans I believe (I could be wrong) feel that the greatest appreciation that can be shown is simply for one to likewise serve . It is very easy to write laudatory words about service, but in this case actions speak much louder. Are you a veteran Mr. Tyrell? As a veteran and a service academy graduate, I know that those who do serve are special in that at least one moment in their lives the focus was for a greater cause than a self-centered personal agenda. Semper Fi...Do or Die...Get Some! P.S. Could we somehow end the practice of the winning championship sport teams visiting the White House. Does the Queen invite every soccer championship team to Buckingham Palace?

Chuck in Germany| 12.18.08 @ 4:25PM

Bob, your excellent praise for these heroes in this column reminds me of a recent book I read. "Lone Survivor: The Eyewitness Account of Operation Redwing and the Lost Heroes of SEAL Team 10" by Marcus Luttrell. It's now out in paperback. In it, Marcus Luttrell tells his story of how he and his fellow SEALS fought off many of these Taliban barbarians. Your column and Luttrell's book remind us of what Orwell said. "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Indeed.

WilliamInWien| 12.18.08 @ 5:48PM

Hello dgdc, Speaking for myself, I have never purchased a ticket for a professional football game, I have attened college games. Problem is that certain "behavior" gets good press and, unfortunately, filters down to college and high school level (when tolerated). Many people, for an example, the military, follow the non-monetary rewards and manage to do so in a discreet manner. My (sports) problem is with those who demand instant recognition for what they are supposed to be doing in the first place.

CPO U.S.N. (RET)| 12.18.08 @ 6:55PM

And to meet them on the street you would never know who they are and what they did. It was their job and they did it. No bragging or bitchin', just do the job and if you're still able to, go home.

Stuart Carrol| 12.18.08 @ 7:18PM

Such a comparison of real heroism and bravery as opposed to the media darlings on the sports field who are paid an unfathomable amount of money for a few months of "work". As a Canadian, I am humbled and proud to have such good neighbours and friends who put their lives on the line for all of us in the free world. Their story of courage should bring tears to the eyes of all Americans and grateful thanks for the risks they take on behalf of freedom.

Active Duty Guy| 12.18.08 @ 7:19PM

I am an active duty member of the armed forces of the United States of America with 20+ years time in service. Couple things the civilians need to understand---

1 - Don't fool yourselves into thinking people volunteer out of some patriotic duty to the USA. Most join for benefits in the way of a steady paycheck, travel opportunities, GI Bill, or OJT in their career of choice. Very few AD members are pure "patriots."

2 - Most NCOs and officers have no earthly idea who we are fighting or the ideology that drives them. They were given orders to go somewhere and kill, and that is what they do.

3 - Most support troops sent to the AOR are there having a good old time. It is purely a party, college frat atmosphere. Do you know how many husbands and wives I know who have gone there and screwed around on their spouses? How many families are torn apart, not because of PTSD but because of infidelity? See, the military has a saying, what happens TDY stays TDY, but it never really does. I would bet for every combat soldier whose marriage fails because of PTSD or some combat-related stress, there are probably a half dozen support troops whose marriage fails because of infidelity. That's the real untold story of the war.

Bottom line folks is I work with these people every day. I see the politics, the backstabbing, the posturing, and the ignorance, and the waste every day. While these soldiers may have displayed "heroism" it wasn't for love of country. When martial law is declared and the order comes for these same Green Berets to shoot and kill American Citizens they will do the same thing. Will you still call it heroism then? Do you really think they will disobey that unlawful order and say no? Haha! They will kill you and your loved ones and take your property with the same gusto they are killing and taking from the Iraqis and Afghans today.

Best thing you all can do is prepare for it. But please don't trust soldiers. Our founders didn't.

CPO U.S.N. (RET)| 12.18.08 @ 7:50PM

Active Duty Guy said:
"I am an active duty member of the armed forces of the United States of America with 20+ years time in service. "
Sure, and pigs fly. Get a life and quit trying to steal military men's glory.

Patrick J Shanahan| 12.18.08 @ 8:49PM

Bob, you mature in your old age :-)

To leaven the biting wit with an appreciation for the solemn is a rare and precious thing. Let's see more of it. Well done Sir.

J.C.Eaton| 12.18.08 @ 9:39PM

Active Duty Guy,Normally, I'd offer a "thanks for your service" and let it go at that. But your final couple paragraphs took the zest away. Most heroes do the heroics out of pure love and loyalty:of and for their brothers. Maybe being in support you don't see that. I put in 30+ I not only trust soldiers, I love them. You need at the least, a new unit, better yet, a new career. By the way, G. wASHINGTON was a soldier, the Founders not only trusted him, they idolized him. Col. E

Jim| 12.18.08 @ 10:30PM

Active duty BS artist,
Whose military are you in? You certainly didn't
serve in the US military that I spent 30 years in, if you served at all. Sounds to me like you are some REMF sniveling whiner.
ENC (SW/SWCC) Ret.

Alan Brooks| 12.18.08 @ 10:32PM

Agreed, active duty guy needs a new career, assuming hes not a troll pretending to be AD.

you will see a great of troll posts in the future, mark my words, perhaps from outright enemies of America-- the conservative estimate is about 6-7 percent of America is now fifth column, though it could be 8%.

Alan Brooks| 12.18.08 @ 10:43PM

...but AD guy is doing better than we might think he is, at least he's not a blame-America-firster, i mean, lets be thankful he's not anti-American, just because he says servicemen are lecherous and careerist and involved in imperialist ventures in the region.

lets be glad AD is only giving us CONSTRUCTIVE criticism

WilliamInWien| 12.19.08 @ 7:50AM

Hello AD, I did not read in Mr. Tyrrell's article any indication that these professionals were/are saints or sinners. The article focused on their performance under combat circumstances and not the organizational problems found in many entities.

Active Duty Guy| 12.19.08 @ 8:37AM

Wow, I don't know what's worse, America-hating liberals or pie-in-the-sky conservatives who think the American Soldier wears a cape.

You all can think what you want; you're entitled to it. If you think I haven't served, it doesn't change the reality of he situation that in about 15 minutes I will be putting on the old BDUs and heading to base.

WilliaminWien, first thank you for your intelligent, mature reply. Anyway I didn't say they were sinners or saints either. I simply warned that when the next "generated crisis" comes and marital law gets imposed, these same men you call heroes now will be doing to you what they've been doing to the Iraqis for the last 7 years. The point is the Army teaches men to kill and break things; there are no classes on Constitutional law and the limits imposed on them by it, even though we swear to defend and uphold it every time we re-enlist. (This is why SNCOs and officers alike laugh at me for having a copy of the BOR at my desk). So when Prez Obama activates the 20,000 or so ALREADY deployed in the USA and they go into your town and shoot your neighbors and take your weapons and restrict your travel, don't say you weren't warned.

Alan, I like that, you calling me a troll. If by troll you mean someone who has a realistic sense of the people referred to in the article because I am one of them and have served with them for the last 20 years and 3 months, then yes I am a troll. You not liking my assessment doesn't make me one though. And please point out where I said they were lecherous? Never said such a thing. If you don't think they are careerist, well, go volunteer in a recruiting office (any service) and ask every kid who comes in there why they want to join. Less than 10% will tell you "it is my patriotic duty." If you don't think that's the truth then prove me wrong. Go. You might get a little higher number in a USMC office, but you just might be surprised at the quality of young folks joining. I know I was when I did a stint in recruiting.

Jim, spoken like a true lifelong officer/politician. Guys like you are what is wrong with the military. Afraid to speak up, always wanting to just give "the boss" something, even if it is nothing more than a polished turd, so you can appear to be doing something other than walking around with a coffee cup in your hand. Guys like you are more worried about the next rank than getting the mission done, or the health and welfare of the troops you are supposed to be "leading." Guys like you will spend taxpayer money on frivolous BS at the end of the fiscal year so you can get the same overbloated budget for crap you don't need the following FY. Yeah, my description probably doesn't jive with your time flying a desk somewhere working on your own performance report instead of getting out getting to know your troops, what motivates them and what doesn't, who inspires them and who doesn't, and just being there to pass on knowledge. Instead guys like you spent your career working off the backs of your troops, taking the credit for their accomplishments, and throwing them under the bus when needed.

JC, again, you can think what you want, but if you are a retired colonel you have no idea what it is like down in the weeds anymore. If you are typical of the O-6s I know you spent the better part of your career fighting for the best job to get you promoted to the next rank, spewing contradictory orders, and giving unrealistic and nebulous commands. Again, if you think those "heroes" do it because they love each other well, you have an unrealistic view of the world. I will say it again, if you think those heroes will disobey the unlawful order to shoot on American Citizen or confiscate the property of American Citizens you are crazy. If they did, THEN they would be heroes. Oh, and to make the jump from the infant country's love of Gen Washington to an overall love of a standing Army by the founders in typical of O-6 rationalization/skewed view of history and the world in general.

CPO, again, I am not stealing anyone's glory, just telling it like it is. If you don't like it that's your problem, not mine. The truth hurts as they say.

J.C.Eaton| 12.19.08 @ 12:22PM

ADG, the only thing you've persuaded this antedeluvian,myopic, naive old 0-6 is that you resent the mystique of our combat soldiers and you swim in a sea of bitter cynicism. Beyond that, have a great day.By the way, along the way, I taught Constitutional law and history in the U of Wisconsin system. You made the point that the"founders" distrusted soldiers, now you add the gratuity about a standing army, THAT point is a fair and in most cases, true one, but that wasn't the one you tried urge in your first go-round. Notwithstanding that, you might review your Kipling:"It's Tommy this an' Tommy that, an' chuck 'im out the brute, but 'tis savior of 'is country when the guns begin to shoot. "Anyway, run your thesis down the company street of a Special Forces unit and let me know what you learn. COL.E

Frank Talk II| 12.19.08 @ 1:20PM

ADG, there are valid points in your argument; however, I still believe in this day and age of an all volunteer force a sense of patriotism is somewhere in the impetus for members to enlist and or go through the service academy experience. The points that you make rest on the fact that it is human nature to behave in selfish manipulative ways. Those less than desirable traits and actions are part of the human condition. They will never be expunged. Still, I believe (I could be wrong) the majority of military personnel believe in their mission and in addition seek to serve for adventure ie travel, different stimuli etc. To say that they only do it for a paycheck is a stretch. Sure alot of individuals enlist seeking to belong to something. Man is a social animal. But if it is only for a paycheck and for group identification then WalMart, McDonalds or any other service related job could fullfill that need.

Active Duty Guy| 12.19.08 @ 1:41PM

JC, colonel, wow, great comback argument. I resent the "mystique" of the combat soldier. That's the best you could do? I'm jealous? Wow. Great insight. Ranks right up there with the gays who claim everyone opposed to gay marriage is a closet homo. Way to use that O-6 brain, but based on my experience about what I expected.

BTW, YOU were the one who tried to connect the love of Gen Washington with the love of a standing army, not me. YOU brought up Washington, not me. As for it not being in my initial post, well no kidding there wunderkind O-6; YOU brought it up!

Oh yeah, Obama taught Constitutional Law too, and he's getting ready to p!$$ all over it in a few weeks. I don't know what your point is in saying that except to toot your own horn in typical O-6 fashion.

Are the SFs gonna beat me up because I don't think they're heroes? Oooo I'm scared! Now O-6, THAT's the America I want to live in! That's why I serve! So opposing viewpoints can be threatened at the point of a gun! Awesome!

You prove my point without even realizing it and I thank you.

BTW, I don't believe in cynicism, pessimism, optimism, any of that. I believe in reality and preparation. Believing the SF heroes won't shoot Ameican Citizens when given the order by the communists about to take charge is a nice rosy little world you may want to live in, but I choose not to.

Frank, I understand about human nature. What everyone failed to understand (and instead decided to attack me for not licking the boots of our heroes) is my warning not to attribute some great, superhuman nobility to members of the military. We are no different than the average American in our human traits like you mention. That's all. American Citizens should be wary of the 20,000 or so already "deployed" in the CONUS and I feel the reason they are not is they think the American Soldier is somehow "better" than they. My argument is simply he is not; he will simply follow orders, even if it means shooting you and confiscating your property.

Yes, the point I made in my original posts is what you mention, that most members of the US Armed Forces serve for a variety of reasons, the least of which (in my experience) is a sense of patriotic duty. They serve for a steady paycheck, tuition assistance and the GI Bill, experience in their chosen career field, travel, etc. I would put "patriotic duty" way down the list of why the average 18 y/o enlists. All I'm saying.

Active Duty Guy| 12.19.08 @ 1:53PM

Frank, just to clarify, I DID NOT say the militayr members ONLY serve for a paycheck in ANY of my posts. I gave a healthy variety of reasons. As this is still semi-America you are free to believe what you want to believe until told otherwise. However about 2 issues ago the Air Force and Army Times both had front page stories on how this is the time to reenlist considering the financial crisis going on. Patriotism was not mentioned in the story, in case you were wondering.

Also, I would ask you to pay attention to the recruiting commercials you see on TV. What do they appeal to for the most part? A sense of patriotism? No. They point out the benefits you can enjoy as a member of the military. Why do you think the services use this as a selling point? Could it be because that's why most kids enlist? I dunno, I'm not marketing guy but maybe so. Maybe the O-6 can tell us.

As far as service academies go, haha! Yeah they certainly are the best of the best! Getting a free education has nothing to do with it I'm sure.

Don't get me wrong, I WISH most members served for patriotic reasons. Heck yeah I do. I WISH most members were knowledgeable on the US Constitution and the BOR and the enemy we face right now. But again, reality is what it is.

CPO U.S.N. (RET)| 12.19.08 @ 2:04PM

ADG, the phony punk is likely a one termer with an attitude against lifers and the military in general.
I'm not talking to you ADG, so piss off. I'm talking to the others who are feeding the punks ego. Let him wallow in his dillusions since his opinion is of no more value or impact than a prattling 3 year olds.

J.C.Eaton| 12.19.08 @ 2:26PM

ADG, you flatter yourself. I am indifferent to whether or not you're impressed by my rejoinders. I'm not responsible for your reactions and that's that. Whether or not you believe in optimism,cynicism, etc is not relevant, what is relevant is that you ARE cynical, almost terminally so. I mentioned the teaching gig for the same reason you mentioned your 22 years+, think about it. We won't agree about the central point you hold, namely the American soldier's underlying character, so be it. I revere them, I guess you don't, so be that as well. It's more than a little sad that what began as a paean to your brothers has evoked such response but there's nothing for that either. You can be just as glum as you want about the in-coming administration, you're no glummer than most of the rest of us. But good God man, get a grip. Out here, Col.E

Once an active duty guy| 12.19.08 @ 2:43PM

ADG, if you are going to the "base" are you in the navy or the air force?

Active Duty Guy| 12.19.08 @ 3:26PM

Ahh, CPO, calling me names, how droll. Isn't this the reaction we get from libs when they can't argue their points with facts? Funny how supposed "conservatives" resort to the same name-calling blather when they are faced with facts they can't counter.

O-6, pay attention, which is hard for such busy O-6s I know. 20 years, 3 months. Not 22+. I would bet a dollar to a donut that your attention to that detail about me is about par for the course of the attention you paid your poor troops when you were serving. Its not flattery; YOU engaged me in this debate, not the other way around.

Again most on here have no powers of comprehension. My main point hence: these guys will do as told if called upon to quell "riots" or "civil unrest" right here in the good ol' US of A, and they won't blink if given the order to shoot at their fellow American citizens. Believe it and prepare for it, however you want to. If that mens you are going to sit and hope for the best, so be it. I am preparing other ways.

Again, this isn't a personal attack on those soldiers, it is what it is. Reality, not cynicism or pessimism or optimism or "being glum." Reality.

Other active duty guy, yeah, there are no soldiers or Marines on ANY AF or Navy base. NONE!

Once an active duty guy| 12.19.08 @ 4:01PM

ADG, so are you a soldier or are you a marine?

Right Winger| 12.19.08 @ 4:26PM

“Active Duty Gal,” besides denigrating other servicemen as amoral automatons, you’re getting into some pretty paranoid predictions here. Are you a prophet and are you taking your medicine there at the asylum?

Active Duty Guy| 12.19.08 @ 4:43PM

Ooooh with the name calling again. Classic. All this name-calling coming fromt he supposed "tolerant" right? The folks who allegedly work in the realm of ideas, not ad-hominem attacks? Haha yeah right! Is it a wonder I don't vote repub or demo anymore? You guys are, at your core, the same.

Paranoid predictions huh? None other than Joe Biden said we'll have a crisis within Obama's first 6 months. Part of the bailout discussion revolved around imposing martial law if there was a run on banks, people couldn't get their money, and riots ensued. Yeah man, I am paranoid. Or maybe you guys who claim to be "right wingers" need to face reality.

But again I say it is funny how alleged conservatives fall back into the same name-calling hissy fits libs do when they can't argue facts. But being defensive is neither a lib or conservative trait, it is a HUMAN mechanism. Hmmm, isn't that what I've been talking about all these posts? People are people, regardless of if they wear a funny uniform or not? And based on that you can make logical predictions as to their actions in a given circumstance? And based on those logical predictions you should prepare however you see fit?

If and when it happens and they come a-knockin' on your door to take your weapons, food, house, whatever, maybe you all can tell them, "But I'm a retired O-6/CPO/whatever" and see if that gets you anywhere.

Good luck.

Active Duty Guy| 12.19.08 @ 5:00PM

Other ADG, I didn't say I was either, just reminding you that there are soldiers and Marines on AF & Navy bases, too.

Active Duty Guy| 12.19.08 @ 5:02PM

Right Winger, is calling me an "Active Duty Gal" supposed to denegrate me? Seems it only denegrates the thousands of women who serve the country that you allege to support so much, doncha think?

Think before you post. Most of you are walking contradictions.

Trac2| 12.20.08 @ 1:18AM

hey Active duty guy, what is your MOS. I suspect that you never deployed anywere and if you did you never left the FOB. You are right about one thing in my 27 years in the Army I've meet a lot of BOZO's like you who want to reep the benifits but who go out of there way to avoid the hard assignments or you lack the moral courage to put your ass on the line for anybody.
You make me sick

Open Mind| 12.20.08 @ 3:36AM

"Active Duty Guy," how do you know everyone else's motives so well? Why do you wish to proof these men are no different than any other person? Do they need to be taken down a notch? Are all servicemen and women going to be turning their guns on the American people? What will you do?

bluecollarbytes| 12.20.08 @ 9:41AM

ADG got his main 'point' across, which seems to be that special forces are simply nothing more than highly-trained killers, as much at ease with killing Americans as killing Taliban.

Beyond that he reminds me of the many malcontents I've met throughout the years whining about the way promotions are handed out to "undeserving manipulators" of the system.

Is it safe to assume that a "soldier" who constantly belittles the courage and sacrifices of fellow soldiers in battle may be ready to enter civilian life?

11B| 12.20.08 @ 10:36AM

Bluecollarbytes, I thought ADG's "point" was that he's smarter than everyone else, more privy to the G-2 on upcoming OPs, read in on all the secret squirrel stuff on the SIPR Net, and not going to be tricked into holding these mere Silver Star winners up as fine men. Compared to him and his self-praising realism, intellect, and egotism, these SF boys are just whoremongers, robots, and careerists just as keen to kill their fellow citizens as anyone else. In his own way, he’s saying they’re basically nothing more than Nazis, and he’s the only one with the realism, experience, and knowledge to see through these SF chumps. All and all, it’s not a very pretty self-portrait he paints, and not likely one he’d pop off about on post where real servicemen would mock his pretentions and jealousy.

J.C.Eaton| 12.20.08 @ 10:51AM

Open Mind, Blue-collar, You got it, Dead bang. Best, Col. E.

Thomas B. Jackson| 12.21.08 @ 1:02PM

Mr. Tyrrell: Thank you sir, an excellent article on our "Quiet Professionals"; and there is a reason why the SPECOPS of our military forces are known as Quiet Professionals, and part of that you have discussed. Their profession is not one that they choose for glory, medals, royalties. Life is about choices, some elect to serve our great nation in the military; some elect to play professional sports; some elect so many other occupations; and there are some in uniform and out, that choose to criticize others. An old cliche that I may have the words out of context yet the meaning is obvious "the moving finger having writ, not a word, not a deed can erase the message of the moment". I have read the blogs in response to your article, for the negative ones in respect to our military but to be specific inuendos about our Special Forces, our "Green Berets" you wrote about, in their defense I can only state that if ignorance is bliss then they are extremely happy. I like many others have made many choices in life, one that was my proudest was to have served 32 plus years in the Army; my last assignment as the Command Sergeant Major of one of the Army's largest commands (Civil Affairs and Psyops) was the epitomy o f my career. Active duty and Reserve component soldiers, male and female, career fields that spanned a wealth of experience (military and civilian), backgrounds of Rangers, Special Forces, and the list is endless; deployed around the world all the time. These soldiers like the SF soldiers in Afghanistan never executed their duties; their complaints they discussed not in the open, out of loyalty to their comrades, their Service and their Country. They like I, never had a "job" in the military; we had a profession. Thank you Sir, I salute you for a "job" well done, and the soldiers, our warriors, thank you as well. CSM, TBJ, Fayetteville, NC (and still serving).

Jim| 12.21.08 @ 11:05PM

ADG,
I'm flattered that you seem to know so much about my career. Perhaps you know what the corpsman did with my St. Christopher's medal
when they cut my jungle fatigues off to plug up
the two AK round holes in my chest while waiting for the dust off.

Tax paying American| 12.22.08 @ 11:07AM

ADG - Please tell me you are on leave and not sitting at work wasting my tax paying dollars while you could and should be doing something more productive with your time??? If you don't like the service that you so "unproudly" serve....get out! From the outside looking in, it seems as though you are a bitter person that is dissappointed you didn't get promoted and instead you must try and bring everyone down to your level....trying to prove you are so much better then everyone else. Get out of the service and move to another country if you are so affraid of the American soldier and what they stand for. Go find some place else to live that provides you these same freedoms...good luck with that! God Bless our troops: soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines! Thank you all for serving and hopefully none of you serve for a jerk like "Active Dut Guy"!

prb51| 12.22.08 @ 2:52PM

ADG,
Your thought process, and I suspect your service to our Nation, (if there was any) was/is probably a total waste of your energy, our tax dollars and a bain to those you served with.
De Oppresso Liber REMF

Active Duty Guy| 12.22.08 @ 3:26PM

Let's see, disagree with the left in this ocuntry and you are: called names, made fun of, integrity questioned, told to move out if you don't like it.

Disagree with the right in this country and you are: called name, made fun of, integrity questioned, and told to move out if you don't like it.

Hmmmm, somebody please tell me again the difference between demos and repubs? Liberals and "conservatives?" Seems neither likes having the basic tenets of their respective religions questioned, do they?

They'll read what they want to read, not comprehending the message just fuming at the supposed message. I challenge any of you to pick out the place in any of my posts where I called the SF in the original article any of the names you attributed to me calling them. If you all are comfortable with having American military troops deployed in your own country ready to be called upon in the event of some made up "crisis" then I seriously question your patriotism. Our loyalty is NOT to a government, or an Army, it is to America. We do not swear to uphold and defend the government, or the Army, or the Navy. We do swear to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and I would argue anyoen who supports deploying troops within the borders of the US of A but not ON the border of the US of A is an enemy of the Constitution. Again, these are hard decisions and I know the military is quite the "go along to get along" environment.

As for all the folks who took the easy way in this debate and relied on ad hominem attacks against me, well I hope that makes you sleep better at night. It was kind of disappointing though. I actually thought you all were better than the average Kos poster--now I know better. Rather than reasoned debate you all just want to flame me, again, I don't let things like that bother me. Truth is truth whether you want to believe it or not.

Bluecollar, please show me where I belittled the subjects of the original article. If that's what you got out of my numerous posts as my "main" point, you my friend are a world-class moron in need of a reading comprehension class. Or three.

Jim, don't get high and mighty with me. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. It is amazing that instead of reasoned debate you are OK with calling me names, but then when I call you what you are you have a hissy fit. "I took 2 AK rounds." Boo hoo Jim. Sure you did. Is that what passes for reasoned debate on the right nowadays? "I was shot in war so I am always right and you are always wrong." My experiences don't count because I wasn't shot? What if I was only shot AT Jim, would my opinion still count less? Is that it? Are some pigs more equal than others in your world Jim?

As for all the other folk who posted thinking I am somehow "jealous" or slinked through 20+ years without getting promoted, again that's no different than the gay guy telling me I am a closet homo because I disagree with gay marriage. I explained that once already in an attempt to extract some reasoned debate but in the absence of such you all fall back onto the same tired tactics of the goofs on the left. Again, no better than they.

Open minded guy, since you asked without resorting to the childishness of the majority of "conservatives" on here, here are your answers.

"How do you know everyone else's motives so well?"
A - I don't. I CLEARLY said I base my opinion (again, it is my opinion, still allowed to have those---for now) on my experience over the past 20+ years. I will give the following example knowing the majority will take it out of context and read something into it. Example: You are walking late at night on a deserted street. Someone of a different race than you accosts you and mugs you. The next time you are walking late at night on a deserted street will you be more wary or less wary of someone of a different race than you approaching you? If more wary, then I can ask you, how do you know everyone else's motives? Answer, you don't, but you would be crazy not to use your EXPERIENCE to prepare for a possible bad situation. All I am saying bro.

Why do you wish to proof these men are no different than any other person?

A - Because they are not superhuman. Unless they can walk on water and leap tall buildings in a single bound, they ARE no different than any other person. Main point is the American Citizens would be better served to be a little more wary of the American soldier than engage in hero-worship of him. It is easier to rationalize abuses when you think the person walks on water.

Do they need to be taken down a notch?
A - No. Never said they needed to be taken down a notch. (I wasn't gonna go here but might as well, should be fun to see th results.) I would like to read their citation though. My experience tells me that most citations for awards and decs are, hmmmm, how can I say this politely, umm, not exactly factually accurate. Or, maybe the better term is they tend to be exxaggerated a bit. (Now, if any of the so-called 30-year vets come on here and say I am lying, then either YOU are lying or you spent 30 years and never wrote a dec, award, or performance report). Now, is that to say that this did not happen exactly like it is laid out in the article? Of course not. I wasn't there and I have no reason to doubt it, but I also have no reason to believe it. It is what it is. I do so wonder when I see citations like this though if we are killing 200 bad guys with only a dozen or so of our guys, out in the wide open with no cover, in the feezing moutains, wearing 100 pound back packs, fighting uphill, how come the war is continuing on with no end in sight? After what I read about "kill counts" in Viet Nam I am a little less likely to take things like this at face value so to speak.

Are all servicemen and women going to be turning their guns on the American people?

A - My experience tells me if that perfect storm erupts where Biden's prediction comes true and that "crisis" manifests itself, and like Biden says Obama will do things that may not appear to be the right thing, then yes, the majority of the American soldiers called upon to impose martial law inside the borders of the US of A will shoot, if "need" be, their fellow Citizens. I have no doubt of that.

What will you do?
A - If called upon I would, as every American serviceman (non-gender specific) is charged to do, disobey any order I feel is unlawful. I will not confiscate property or restrict travel of American civilians. I will not shoot American civilians. If push came to shove I would desert first.

One last thing. For the guy who was worried about me writing this at work and wasting his taxpayer dollars, haha! Are you really worried about that? Yes I am at work. Just spent a good deal of time writing this. The time "wasted" probably doesn't amount crap compared to a bolt on a B-52 or nuclear sub or private jet for GOs made-up TDYs to the AOR where they spend the last day of the month and the first day of the next month there so they can get both month's salaries tax-free. You got bigger things to worry about WRT military waste than little ol' me writing on this blog. I have to wonder if I was writing how much I worshiped these guys if you'd be worried about how much time/money I was wasting though?

Active Duty Guy| 12.22.08 @ 3:35PM

prb51, actually bro it is the opposite. My troops would die for me, and I would die for them. I could get them to steal from their own grandma if need be, because they trust me and I trust them. I don't steal their glory, I don't throw them under the bus, I hold myself accountable before any of them would ever be questioned, I stand up for them and when they need it I give them a swift kick in the arse but then we move on.

I actually am a bain to the politicians disguised as "leaders" in the military though, of which you were probably one.

Active Duty Guy| 12.22.08 @ 3:51PM

11B, wow Freudian slip anyone? You certainly have some anger issues with regard to the special forces bro. Attributing all that anger to me isn't going to get it resolved. Now I called them Nazis huh? Wow.

Anyway, see how that works? Instead of answering your arguments I just turned them back on you. Man this sure is easier than reasoned debate! Now I see why most of you resort to it.

Trac2, my MOS is English grammar, maybe you should take a class in it? Throw in some spelling and punctuation while you're at it. 27 years in the Army and still using "there" when you meant "their." Awesome! I bet you're an "occifer" too.

I'm going to go back to "reeping" the "benifits" of my cushy assignments now. HuuuuuAhhhhhhhhh! Idiot! Haha!

Jim| 12.22.08 @ 6:12PM

ADG,
"Don't get high and mighty with me"? You are the one who proclaimed moral and intellectual superiority spouting that the troops don't know waht they are doing or fighting for, sniveling about infidelity. What's wrong didn't you an end of tour award? You have the BOR on your desk,
why did you have a desk? Why aren't you in the field with those you are so quick to belittle.
Your experince would could if you had any, if
had ever seen real combat I seriously doubt you
would be babbling on in the manner you are.
Yes, my combat time does make me better than you. I'm sorry if some guy with a pair of jump wings stole your woman. Your nitpicking about someones grammar only proves the shallowness of you arguement. You do not have the ability to compete in the arena of ideas . You need to stop feeling sorry for youself and blaming others.

95B| 12.23.08 @ 7:42AM

ADG, you're a fraud and a poseur. Your blatant jealousy and sophomoric sophistries prove it. I recommend you spread your malarkey where it will be believed. You criticize others who posted here for their typos and misspellings and then you spell "bane" as "bain." And you have the nerve to behave smugly as if you're a brilliant person. You're a mere blow hard. You are nothing more and nothing else. If you ever led any soldiers (and I doubt if anyone here believes you did or do), I know they laughed at your pretentiousness.

zeitgeist| 12.25.08 @ 6:42PM

ADG is the bomb. Everyone should watch the movie zeitgeist, although 95 percent will will respond to it just as they respond to AG.
-ADG is right, most actve duty guys are still here/joined for the benefits. That is obvoius and not up nor negotiation.
- he is paranoid and all of you should be too, especially if your living in the military bubble. if you still believe the war in iraq was warranted your an idiot. If you think there is no possibility that 9/11 was an inside job your an idiot.
-Prescot bush's. thats the grandfather, banks assets were seized because he was laundering over 300 mil in nazi gold.
-Rockefeller's standard oil sold 30 mil worth of a fuel additive to nazi germany. this chemical was patented by standard oil and essential for the fuel used in the planes.
-Rockefeller, carnegie, morgan, along with other international bankers, including prescot bush, initiated, wrote and got passed, the federal reserve act, giving them the capability to offer margin loans, which pumped the market full of fake money and incited the roaring twenties. They pulled their money, recalled the loans in mass quantity, knowing they could not be paid ever, let alon in the 24 hours alloted, therefore setting up and causing the great depression. They then bought up banks and business's still alive for pennes on the dollar.
Today many americans still consider these men HEROES because they are ignorant to the facts. Most dont even care, but if you dont think that there are and have been a group of people pulling the strings god help you. watch the movie and decide for yourself, if there are spelling errors i dont care.
haha merry christmas everyone,
oh yeah im in the military and i dont do shit unless im on deployment. And yes there is a shit ton of money wasted every day...even A school and C school are a huge waste of money at least for the taxpayer, not for me, i got a ton of college credit for nothing.

Slickster| 12.25.08 @ 7:46PM

zeitgeist ,
Trust a movie to give you the facts/ The only fool here besides ADG is you, You appear to have failed high school history. Since you do nothing except for when you are on deployment, that makes you part of the problem, in essence you are no better than the people you complain about .
College crdeit won't be doing you any good as you
appear to be too stupid to even run the french fry machine. Later loser, now get back into the scullery where you belong.

zeitgeist| 12.25.08 @ 8:34PM

haha, slickster,
its not my faul I have been on hold for over a year now. What a waist. It's management not me slick. I failed history huh, well heres some for you.

In the words of Woodrow Wilson, thats a former president slick, the creator of the thirteen points and the prelim to the UN. suck it.

All these qoutes were later in life and in regret...
once again slick
suck it good

"We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the world - no longer a Government of free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominant men." -- Woodrow Wilson

“I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world - no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.”
-President Woodrow Wilson

trust a movie to give me facts? what is your point. Where do you get your facts? the newspaper? television, or do you get special visions from god. Or maybe your a bible beater who gets your facts from men from past ages and corrialates them to todays times.

zeitgeist| 12.25.08 @ 8:36PM

my bad, "waist" to waste before you knock me on that

zeitgeist| 12.25.08 @ 8:39PM

and i am 12 credits away from a bachelors in Professional Aeronautics that you paid for, so who is the stupid one? I'm lookin out for me and my family buddy, whats wrong with that?

Jonas| 12.31.08 @ 1:08PM

I was sent this article by one of many patriots I work with, who have served the government in a variety of ways. Who also happen to believe in the Bill of Rights and who served out of nothing but love of one's nation. For if you believe that the majority of people do it for other reasons, that is your prerogative. However, you don't know me.

I can tell you it was entertaining, some intelligent arguments were made. On both sides. This much I do know: Active Duty Guy and Zeitgeist seem eerily similar to Timothy McVeigh. The belief that the government will send Special Forces (who are actually trained primarily to conduct Foreign Internal Defense) to kill us and our families and believe that there are not thousands of agents nationwide who work tirelessly to protect our liberties, that somehow they are all going to support a Communist Regime under a President Obama is the type of paranoia that causes one to follow a path of evil and hatred. Try to use the intelligence you have earned or that genetics have bequeathed upon you for something constructive and positive. To preach the doctrine that you continue to will most assuredly cause you to follow a path of destruction.