The American Spectator

Old Soldier| 7.26.09 @ 6:30AM

It galls me no end that there aren't enough congressional reps with the courage to stand up and say "NO" to benefits for people who are in this country illegally!

Floyd Looney| 7.26.09 @ 6:44AM

And yet they will be exempt from the annual $2500 that we will have to pay for the exact same coverage.

Eric Dondero| 7.26.09 @ 9:10AM

Bandow, don't dare to think that just because you spout off a Right libertarian cause or two, that those of us who are Right libertarians are going to forget about, or forgive you for your treacherous past bashings of Republicans, including George Bush, McCain and Sarah Palin.

You're a Left libertarian, who blames America First. Now that Obama's in power, and the Left has become the enemy of all those who love and cherish liberty, you're making a sorry-ass attempt to cover your past.

It ain't working. Us Right libertarians are going to dog you every step of the way.

You and your Raimondo/Rockwell/Balko/Weisgell/Welch bretheren screwed us in 2008.

Payback's a bitch.

Eric Dondero, Publisher
Libertarian Republican

Dixie| 7.26.09 @ 9:32AM

Not only is our system designed to provide health care to illegals, but also food stamps and public housing, education......all at taxpayer expense.

To say that these illegals are paying taxes is an outright lie. If, as is being reported, 43% of the workers in the US pay NO income tax, apparently a large majority of illegals fall into that bracket. It explains why to many need public assistance.

And the public continues to sit idle and watch it happen.

Liberal Reader| 7.26.09 @ 1:58PM

Re: Is there anything working people are not asked to subsidize?

Fair question.

A fair answer would have to include the fact that illegal immigrants work. That's why they come here.

It's not as though the "subsidy" would be a form of welfare. Immigrants would be paying in.

Liberal Reader| 7.26.09 @ 2:00PM

Dixie --

Then the logical conclusion of your argument is that no one who does not pay income should receive any government spending.

That is, 43% of all workers should be denied police services, education, and so on.

Of course, your figures are completely wrong, but I know conservatives never let anything like facts get in their way.

People in that 43% pay all kinds of taxes -- many of which are regressive in nature. They also loan the federal government a substantial amount of money in the form of income taxes that is interest free. That in itself is a form of taxation, even though they receive much of the "principle" back.

Liberal Reader| 7.26.09 @ 2:04PM

The contempt of "conservatives" for the working poor and the middle class never ceases to amaze me.

And somehow, they manage to convince you that liberals are the "elites."

The real elite that threatens the way of life of middle class and lower middle class Americans are the reactionaries who work tirelessly on behalf of the top 1% -- the wealth of which has increased tremendously in the last 25 years while the middle class has constricted and grown increasingly insecure.

"Conservatism" is a fraud.

Missy| 7.26.09 @ 3:25PM

You are a traitor to your country, Lib Reader/Jeremiah. What's in it for you, scurvy dog?

zeezil| 7.26.09 @ 4:11PM

If you aren't frothing mad over this, you ain't paying attention. It is far beyond time we take our country back from the pro-illegal alien nazis!!! Contact both your Congressman and Senators and demand that illegals not receive taxpayer assisted health care.

Missy| 7.26.09 @ 4:20PM

LR/Jeremiah; you've said your parents are still alive, right? Are you going to enjoy watching them be forced to receive death counseling every five years after 65? Hmmm? If they become ill are you going to dispense the pain pills because the government says they're too old for a cure and their lives aren't worth the cost?

Your slavish obedience to your Marxist ideology is disgusting, especially at the expense of your mom and dad. You are a heartless monster: Don't let love get in the way of your ideological servitude.

Liberal Reader| 7.26.09 @ 4:21PM

Missy --

Not that I think this will be a profitable conversation, but what makes you think I'm a "traitor"?

Do you not know what the word means?

Zeezil --

"Pro-illegal alien nazis"

You, sir, are a total jackass and a fool.

Patriot| 7.26.09 @ 4:24PM

We have to stop this abomination now! Call and send communications to your representatives until there's a meltdown in Washington, DC.

Missy| 7.26.09 @ 4:29PM

Yeah, I know what a traitor is--and you fit the bill, commie. You're going to be sorry, you b@stard. Wait until Americans get a whiff of your liberal democrat betrayal of your fellow Americans. You want to see fury? You will, just wait.

Liberal Reader| 7.26.09 @ 5:04PM

That's a pretty creepy post, Missy. You're silly and ignorant, but you could at least be polite.

Blacque Jacques Shellacque| 7.26.09 @ 5:44PM

A fair answer would have to include the fact that illegal immigrants work.

Passing by a number of the local home improvement and paint stores seems to indicate that a fair number of them don't.

Missy| 7.26.09 @ 6:18PM

You didn't address my statements regarding your cruelty to your parents, Jeremiah/LR. Why is that, you heartless monster?

I notice you didn't try to refute my accusations, good "Catholic" boy.

Did my remarks sting because they hit the mark? Get used to it.

Liberal Reader| 7.26.09 @ 6:21PM

Blacque Jacques Shellacque --

Well, that's a very sophisticated sociological analysis, Blacque. I guess I take back what I say, and fly in the face of logic to agree with you.

Indeed, you must be right: people cross deserts and seas to come to America to welfare. Setting aside the facts, including the fact that there really isn't welfare anymore, and they are ineligible for food stamps even, your theory is much more persuasive than anything an appeal to reason might provide. So I take it all back. You're right. You and Missy. You solved the whole problem.

Blacque Jacques Shellacque| 7.26.09 @ 6:25PM

Well, that's a very sophisticated sociological analysis, Blacque.

There's nothing sophisticated about it. Next time you pass by one, open your blinkered eyes.

Basil Plumley| 7.26.09 @ 6:26PM

Hey Liberal Reader,

That's pretty rich. You proclaim conservatism is a fraud. Yet, the only demonstrable fraud here is you. How many handles and how many leaps of logic on top of the bad facts do we have to endure?

You twist words and misinterpret meanings and intents in order to promote your putrid world view. Please prove that the logical conclusion that you ascribed to Dixie was in fact her intent?

I read the post and nothing in the post remotely suggests the manure you are trying to spread. Yet, you rambled down a road that no sane thinking person would have taken.

You presumably took an oath to the Constitution when you presumably joined the military. Did that oath have an expiration date?

Do all Constitutional rights and government welfare programs apply to non-citizens of this country? It's funny to see you intellectual giants spend money that does not belong to you in manners not proscribed/enumerated by the Constitution for folks who are not citizens.
Then, you cheer when these same folks commit heinous crimes and run back to their home country to avoid justice.

I have to admit, you do have a sense of humor. After all the times you have lied and told us to "F*** Off", you demand that we be polite to you. You certainly have chutzpah.

You do know the definition of chutzpah, don't you?
It's a person who murders his parents and then pleads for mercy from the court because he is an orphan.
You failed to answer Missy's question about your parents and Obama's health insurance plan. I can only surmise that you have no problem with their demise for the good of ObamaCare.
Perhaps, you desire they become Soylent Green?

Yummy?

I'll bet your response (if you dare) will be a doozy.

Old Texican| 7.26.09 @ 6:43PM

Hey Basil
Liberal Twerp is not worth the electrons.
He is paid by Soros.
He doesn't pay taxes.
He is a joke.
Just skim, scroll, and laugh.

Liberal Reader| 7.26.09 @ 6:54PM

Basil --

I'm not saying illegal aliens should get government funded health care. My only point was that they do in fact work. That's why they come here. They actually work really hard, for not much pay. I'm not asking you to pity them, either: I'm just keeping clear that we're talking about people who contribute their labor to the economy.

Dixie's post suggested that she viewed illegals as part of the 43% who supposedly pay no taxes (the "non-producers," to use current reactionary lingo), and because they pay no income tax, they should receive no benefits. It only follows that all people who pay no income tax should not receive government benefits.

Liberal Reader| 7.26.09 @ 6:56PM

Missy --

If I'm a "traitor" and a "heartless monster," why are you interested at all in my response?

I think you're a lonesome and silly woman. You should try to join an organization that lets you socialize more. Do you go to church? I'd start there. Meet people with whom you have things in common. Learn how to talk to other adults.

Missy| 7.26.09 @ 8:09PM

What would you know about church, Jeremiah/LibReader--except that it serves as a social club, of course.

Any son who would throw his mom and dad to the Marxist wolves because of his fealty to a godless ideology has no right to lecture me about church.

You are a heartless monster, and I pity your poor parents.

Basil Plumley| 7.26.09 @ 9:42PM

Not so fast thar Liberal Reader

You are still jumping to conclusions as to Dixie's intent and meaning. She was talking about public assistance not essential services. You made the illogical leap of bad faith in your response.

Your responses went downhill from there.

You also assume all Illegals work. That is another leap of faith. You should read up about MS-13. They are some interesting folks. A hint; they don't exactly work. Just in case you have too much too read.

I wish you weren't so emotional in your posting; someone may confuse you for a girl.

C4P| 7.26.09 @ 9:42PM

I love it when conservative bloggers run liberal-trash trolls off threads. Good job, Missy!

Liberal Reader sounds like a real scumbag.

Angel| 7.26.09 @ 9:46PM

Well, Basil--as established on another thread, LibReader/Jeremiah loves mom jeans and throws like a little girl (just like his fearless leader, Obummer). So perhaps there's no confusion there at all.

Smitty| 7.26.09 @ 9:51PM

I've read that the democrats refer to the mentally handicapped as retarded in several versions of their health care bill. Liberals should know about retarded--Liberal Reader is the personification of the word.

Solo| 7.26.09 @ 11:07PM

Forget Lib Reader and his pathetic straw-man arguments.

You guys are missing the point.

The illegal immigration issue and now the Health care issue are tied to the same goal/problem: Social Security.

Folks....it's bankrupt! It's been bankrupt for 30 years- they (politicians) just don't have the guts to tell you in plain terms because then you'll demand that they do something about it....and they can't! At last...the republicans can't. The democrats won't and they don't want to.

First....in order to keep this democrat "good ship lollipop" afloat, we are going to need more Mexicans....not less. They pay into the system with phoney Social Security numbers and so they can never collect; The best of both worlds from a democrat's point of view.

The feds (thanks to Al Gore's tie breaking vote) are now taxing your SS checks-withdrawing Social Security and Medicare taxes from your Social Security check! Wasn't THAT your first clue?

Now, in order to obscure the abject failure of the Medicare program, they need National Health Care. And....they need to control the means and methods of applying that care. This serves two purposes:

First...it reduces the outlay of monies into the system and....

Second...it allows them to kill you off before you can collect on those (now absent) Social Security benefits.

Do you think that sounds far fetched?

Think again!

Wasn't it Obama who suggest that 'granny' should take an aspirin (pain pill) in lieu of that life saving operation? Is it not his fellow travelers in the democrat party who are now talking about these "end of life" sacrifices that we should be considering?
How about the democrat's heart wrenching appeal to higher taxes in order to off-set the "EVILS" of tobacco? If they wanted you to stop and live a long healthy life they'd outlaw it! Not just tax you for it!

Wake the f*ck up!
They blew all the money by putting it into the "general fund" that allows them to spend it all on pork to get themselves re-elected and now it's all gone. GONE! And it's not coming back! They're aren't enough people paying into the system to keep this ponzie scheme going anymore and they're desperate!

We need at least another 50 Million Mexicans paying into this ponzie scheme and getting nothing back. Hell...they're more likely to tear down what few fences we have- not build more! We need people dying off by the millions well before they can touch that social security check-- not saving and extending their lives!

And....we need to print lots and lots of more Monopoly money so as to devalue what little you will get (those lucky few who avoid the Mexican drug gangs and Obama's "Health Care") so that they can keep this little scam going for another 50 years!

That's the real truth!

"Yes We Can"!

JimE| 7.26.09 @ 11:07PM

Liberal reader, you continue to show your ignorance on a daily basis, keep up the good work loser.
Illegal immigrants should up rounded up, given a basic medial exam and then be sent to forced labor camps to work off their debt to America.

Willey| 7.26.09 @ 11:50PM

Can we send worthless liberals there too, JimE?

Liberal Reader| 7.27.09 @ 12:36AM

Jim E --

Your post is pretty typical Nazi stuff. Where would you get the cattle cars to ship these people to your concentration camps from? Or would you just use 18 wheelers?

Willey --

That's how it works. The fascists twinge begins with immigrants, and your basic run-of-the-mill moronic xenophobia: but eventually it turns even to those "native born" citizens who aren't loyal to the ideologies of blood and soil.

Republicans Uber Alles!

Missy| 7.27.09 @ 1:04AM

Right, Marxist ACORN clown. Right. The Stalinist twinge starts with your family; your poor parents in your case, Jeremiah/LR. Do they know that they have a Marxist bulls eye on their backs, that their son would rather watch them die needlessly than disobey his dear leader? Too bad power means more to you than family, troll.

Evil little creep; what goes around, comes around--one day it will be your turn, loser.

Crabby Apple Mick Lee| 7.27.09 @ 7:12AM

The root of this issue is folk being in this country illegally. There seems to be an argument which more or less states that since illegals pay taxes in a variety of ways, they then are "entitled" to benefits and even residence status. But one does not follow the other. Indeed, as many city attorneys will testify, organized criminal enterprises also pay taxes in a variety of ways--a lot of taxes. Many a school and parks have been built with taxes from ill gotten gains. While it’s nice to get the money, it does not change the fact that crime of the greater and lesser sorts damages the community and rule of law.

It is undoubtedly true the lion's share of illegal aliens do not come here for the welfare. That doesn't mean there are some that do not. Leaving the last aside, what is undoubtedly true it that regardless of intention, a large number of illegal aliens do end up drawing on public assistance. Whether as whole the taxes of the working illegal alien population replace the benefits of those who do not work is, strictly speaking, irrelevant. Illegal aliens have no right to be here. Period. National sovernity is no small matter.

Grzmlyk| 7.27.09 @ 10:14AM

CLASSIC LIBERAL, liberal reader/jeremiah/whoever the hell you think you are today. Actually, it doesn't matter.

Regardless of your identity du jour, it's fitting that you have many monikers. After all, you are all fungible pseudo intellectual cogs spouting the same tried-and-true liberal talking points in unison.

The fact that each of you thinks you are uniquely brilliant ubermenschen in the world only adds to your rich - and ever-burgeoning - legacy.

The fist axiom of liberalism it that in order to succeed it must traffic in dishonesty. Even Lenin knew that.

Since it is based on lies, liberalism requires an ecosystem replete with fools and knaves. The knaves pull the wool over the credulous fools' eyes. And neither gets hurt because they pay for this ideological shell game with other people's money.

That's how it works.

You are certainly holding up your end of the big tent there, LR. I'm not sure which end, though: are you a fool or a knave?

Second, here is a word you might want to acquaint yourself with: "ILLEGAL." As in "ILLEGAL immigrant."

But liberals do not believe that there is any such thing as an illegal immigrant; they believe anyone who wants to come to this country ought to be able to hop on over because they have an inherent right to be Americans and to be granted constitutional rights and, yes, to take more out of the system as a whole than they put in (I mean, isn't that what Obamacare is all about?).

Therefore, since one of a nation-state's inherent defining features is its right to exercise sovereignty over its borders and its citizenry, liberals do not believe in the nation state.

But then that's no surprise, is it? It's all about the one-world government they've been after for over a century (and which party is it with no new ideas?). The very concept of a sovereign America is anathema to this bunch of goons. Their motto: "Why rape a country when you can rape the whole world?"

And what of these hard-working illegal immigrants - future democrat voters all? Aren't they driving down wages for other Americans? And who does that benefit? Oh, yes: The big, bad, rich corporations you are so fond of railing against - and who know where their bread is buttered, which is why so many back liberalism 100% despite having to endure eternal badmouthing from their furtive allies; it's the price they pay for lucre and they're no fools (witness Wall Street's unholy alliance with Big Government).

So your liberalism feathers the nests of your entry-level illegal immigrants and your fat-cat corporations. I wonder who winds up getting squeezed?

Patriot| 7.27.09 @ 11:48AM

Who winds up getting squeezed? Just honest, decent and hard-working Americans who liberals purport to love but actually loathe.

Great post, Grzmlyk!

Grzmlyk| 7.27.09 @ 12:48PM

Thanks, Patriot: Jeremiah/Liberal Reader and Bob would have us believe up is down, good is bad, government spending is the free market, unproductive dollars are productive, fair is unfair, and legal is illegal. Liberalism really is the perfect opposite of what it purports to be. It is a LIE.

Meanwhile, Liberal Reader has the unmitigated audacity to write this:

"The contempt of "conservatives" for the working poor and the middle class never ceases to amaze me. And somehow, they manage to convince you that liberals are the "elites."

Right. Liberal Reader isn't an "elite." He's just delivering unto us little brains the noblesse oblige that is the "white man's burden" of brilliant thinkers like himself. See, his idea is that "elites" are people who merely THINK they are superior to us moronic conservatives; but since, in his mind, he is OBVIOUSLY truly superior to us, he cannot be an "elite." He is just, well, superior.

As for Bob, I say this: there are lies, there are damn lies, and there are statistics. And then there is Bob.

Grzmlyk| 7.27.09 @ 12:58PM

I might add that, in his mind, Liberal Reader is, of course, the voice of Objective Truth. No bias there. Like all liberals good and true, he's as open-minded as a newborn babe and it is us Neanderthals on right who are close-minded.

For "Liberal Reader, "liberal" and "objective" are synonymous.

That's one big difference between the left and right in the media: The talking heads on Fox, as well as Rush Limbaugh and other conservative stars, always remind viewers that they're tendentious - that they are commentators with a point of view.

The Brian Williamses and Katie Courics and Charles Gibsons and the other icons of "news" on the left, on the other hand, LIE to you and tell you they're just reporting "the news" as unbiased truth seekers.

Hardy har har.

Patriot| 7.27.09 @ 6:25PM

Bob's an icon in his own mind. Hardy har har!

greg| 8.8.09 @ 12:15AM

There is one thing everyone is overlooking, the 14th amendment says nothing about anchor babies or birthright citizenship. Therefore its all anti constitution. Not only that but the morons that say they come here to work, you guys are total idiots!!! Illegals work for cash mostly and barely make enough money to survive here so how do they make ends meet, hmmm.. well lets see.. SELL MEXICAN DRUGS you idiots!!! Have you gone into one of these neighborhoods?? they are slums, trash, pretty much Tijuana on the US side.. Illegal gangs line the streets peddling crack, weed, pills, needles, get a f@#in clue!!! After reading a lot of the posts on this page I have to admit on a political and common sense level some of you guys are not even smart enough to breathe.. The only solution to this problem is military violence against the government, everything else has failed, they are not listening, the next step is outlined in the constitution.. all out war to take control of the country and to re establish the republic, it's time to fight for America again..