The American Spectator

ruth| 1.6.09 @ 5:08PM

I never did trust this guy; I just knew he was a horse's butt.

WendyG| 1.6.09 @ 5:16PM

He's a kook.

ruth| 1.6.09 @ 5:26PM

He just looks crazy to me. Sometimes McCain does, too.

Ran| 1.6.09 @ 7:01PM

So close. SO CLOSE! I could support a candidate like Dr. Paul if it were not for the foreign policy chasm. That's too big a flaw for me to ignore. I don't believe he's a kook or untrustworthy - to the contrary. I just totally disagree with his foreign relations attitude.

ruth| 1.6.09 @ 7:46PM

Close only counts in horseshoes and hand-grenades.

Alan brooks| 1.6.09 @ 8:09PM

just a litle background (and from now on will comment only on Isra, and religion).
my parents were radic-libs; now that they are dead i'm tired of feeling liberal-guilty.
However I like solid conservatives, not right wing paranoids such as Ron Paul.
Solid: Buckley; George F. Will; Krauthammer; AmSpec...
wouldnt exactly say "kook", but paranoid seems to fit.
After a half century of being radic-lib I crave SOLIDITY.

Alan Brooks| 1.6.09 @ 8:11PM

Israel, not Isra.

UP with Israel!

ruth| 1.6.09 @ 9:11PM

Alan, Sarah Palin too.

Alan Brooks| 1.6.09 @ 9:58PM

well, her son is...well..never mind. remember i crave solidity above all else.

thing is, Sarah has got a long way to go until she's Maggie Thatcher quality. An awfully long way.

ConservativeWanderer| 1.6.09 @ 10:42PM

Alan, don't forget, at one point in her career even Maggie Thatcher had a long way to go before she was "Maggie Thatcher quality."

We all start somewhere, and if we're smart, we improve along the way. And it's a very rare person who can predict how high someone else will rise.

Alan Brooks| 1.6.09 @ 10:52PM

Maggie was way beyond Palin when she was Sarah's age. Read a Maggie bio, you'll see.

but please Dont forget, there are other conservative women in America who have very high qualities.

Alan Brooks| 1.6.09 @ 10:55PM

...it might be added Sarah Palin's son is in no way solid.

ruth| 1.6.09 @ 11:27PM

Alan, name me one MAN in this country who is Thatcher's equal? I'm way not impressed by the male flotsam and jetsum I see floating around on the political scene. Not fair to Sarah! I still think she has the potential--more than McCain will ever have. What are you talking about regarding Palin's son? The one serving his country in Iraq right now or her newborn, Trig? I don't get it.

Eddie Willers| 1.6.09 @ 11:42PM

(sigh)

I wish it were as easy for me to take mental vacations as it is for Mr. Klein. Nice hatchet piece, my friend - the kernel of your argument boils down to "Bbbut but Dr. Paul never said anything bad about Hamas!"

Dr. Paul has said several times he is in favor of cutting off foreign aide to ALL countries in the Middle East. Imagine the consequences when these nations are forced to subsist based on trade and production - gasp! - they'd soon figure out that trade, not war, is the path to peace.

Dr. Paul's message has been entirely consistent on this issue. It appears you haven't taken notice.

Adam| 1.6.09 @ 11:45PM

Just a quick note to say that you guys are morons. Dr. Paul has more sense in his pinky finger than you do in your entire corpulent, bloodthirsty bodies. I'd recommend that you do a little objective research to figure out why noninterventionism was the preferred foreign policy of the founders of this nation, but I'm sure that'd take away from time you'd rather spend salivating over the footage of Israeli artillery barrages and bloody, screaming Arabs. So, yeah, sorry these HORRIBLE, INTOLERABLE WORDS from this man upset you so, but take heart: Obama's foreign policy will be no different from that of Bush, so it's not like you'll have to do without the vicarious thrills of Israeli and American military campaigns against civilians anytime soon.

At least, not until China and Japan wise up and decide to stop financing them through the purchase of U.S. debt. Then you're really up sh*t creek. >:)

Kevin Southwick| 1.6.09 @ 11:53PM

Ron Paul said, Mr. Klein, that Americans should not take sides in disputes between other nation. Why is that so difficult to understand? Ron Paul has been consistent in his foreign policy for the 20 years he's been in office. If had had won the presidency in 2008, we could all look forward to and end to our being FORCED to take sides over there. There's no excuse for your ignorance, Mr. Klein. You're either a shill for Israel or an idiot.

Thomas| 1.6.09 @ 11:55PM

The bombing and embargo of Iraq where major factors in creating terrorists upset with the US. That is simple history. Clinton essentially harmed the US in this. Bush Sr. should have finished the war, but Clinton made things much worse. That is what the impeachment should have been about.

Paul is honest about history.

Jon Hodges| 1.6.09 @ 11:59PM

Israel is committing terrorism, not the people in the Gaza Ghetto. We should be defending the women and children in Gaza that are being butchered by Israel. Good for Dr. Paul to stand up and take a stand against the state sponsored terrorism coming out of Israel.
Stop reading the pathetic Neo Conservatives. The anti defamation league has done such a good job that if you criticize Israel you are Anti-Semitic, people wake up, the true conservatives are those who will stand up to state sponsored terror. Israel needs to end the occupation of Gaza, and the US needs to end its occupation of over 130 counties.
http://www.creators.com/opinion/paul-craig-roberts.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev6ojm62qwA&eurl=http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/

Stephen| 1.7.09 @ 12:02AM

Does this count as Dr. Paul speaking out against Palestinian attacks?

"Mr. Speaker: I rise in opposition to H. Res. 951, a resolution to condemn Palestinian rocket attacks on Israeli civilians. As one who is consistently against war and violence, I obviously do not support the firing of rockets indiscriminately into civilian populations. I believe it is appalling that Palestinians are firing rockets that harm innocent Israelis, just as I believe it is appalling that Israel fires missiles into Palestinian areas where children and other non-combatants are killed and injured."

source: http://www.antiwar.com/paul/?articleid=12474

Joe| 1.7.09 @ 12:02AM

I think Americans should be taxed 90% of all they make and that money sent to Israel. I mean, it's the pro-America thing to do - to support struggling democracies wherever they are in the world. I also think we should choose sides in every conflict on the planet. Sure, it's none of our business but we're #1. We can do whatever we want. Screw any of those that don't like us getting involved. We'll kick their azz Toby Keith style. What's that? We're broke? What? We're 60 trillion in the hole when you consider just our longterm domestic liabilities? Oh, whatever. Stop hating America. We'll just borrow more money from Communist China. And if they won't loan us the money we'll just print it. We'll print enough so we can afford to kick China's azz for not loaning us the money needed to kick Enemy X's azz. Inflation? Screw that. We'll kick Inlfation's azz!

Tommy| 1.7.09 @ 12:02AM

Ron Paul is one of the few real conservatives that exist today. The rest of you are a bunch of neocons who try to pass for conservatives in the same way that gays try to pass for straight. You are tryign to be somethign you are not. Just look at yourselves along with Ted "Truck Stop" Haggard, Mark "R Kelly" Foley, and Larry Stalls"
Craig.

It is our foreign policy of meddling in the affairs of other countries, overthrowing their governments and providing them with massive amounts of foreign aid money that have consistently come back to haunt us in one way or another.

Kevin Southwick, Adam, Eddie Willers, and myself are clearly the smartest people who have commented on this column, whereas the author is clearly one of the biggest morons on here.

Alan Brooks, Ruth, and Wendy are other major-league morons. Get your heads out of your asses and learn some real history (not the mainstream-accepted, revisionist, court-jester version of history before you speak.

Brent Burk| 1.7.09 @ 12:05AM

You guys seriously disturb me. Killing 40 people in a UN school in Gaza is "defensive"? Are you kidding me? You guys are living in a dream world if you think Israel can do no wrong. You didn't listen to a word he said.

No matter our allies in Europe condemn Israel, they must be antisemitic too! Who cares about all the civilians killed, they are related to Hamas members and therefore must die in order to have the end justify the means.

I believe you accused of Russia doing something similar, why the double standard?

Christopher Witmer| 1.7.09 @ 12:07AM

Yeah, he said it; so what? Are you going to do anything besides whine? The United States should maintain absolute neutrality in such matters and eliminate foreign aid entirely. It's none of America's business. Last time I checked, America's eastern border stood at the western edge of the Atlantic Ocean, and Israel is way on the far side of that pond, with the entire Meditteranean Sea to be traversed as well. Ron Paul is absolutely correct -- the world would be a safer place, and certainly *America* would be a safer place, if we would stop interfering in the affairs of other nations.

Marc| 1.7.09 @ 12:09AM

Sure, must be a kook or crazy. Any sane person would see that war on multiple fronts is a great way to further advance humanity. We should open a war in every country. Then we could prove Krugman's theory that government spending can save our economy. Hopefully their will still be some humans left alive to enjoy that economy.
Dr Paul is the only sane one left in Washington, and the neocons are going crazy because he has been right for DECADES, about both economics and foreign policy, and some people are actually starting to listen to him. Go Ron Paul.

J Cortez| 1.7.09 @ 12:10AM

I agree with Ron Paul.

Christopher Witmer| 1.7.09 @ 12:11AM

Alan Brooks, you like Krauthammer? I read Krauthammer religiously, always making sure to pursue the exact opposite of whatever that idiot favors.

hardrain77| 1.7.09 @ 12:11AM

I hate that kook, crazy tinfoil hat wearing--yet always right--Dr. Ron Paul.

Why can't he just lie and love Israel like every other politician?

Fabric Softener Kills| 1.7.09 @ 12:15AM

Ron Paul predicted the economic crash and he is 100% right that Israel is to blame. They are using American made weapons that violate all international laws against a defenseless group that was already kicked off their land. So you bunch of neo-cons Jewish bankers can go blow yourselves. You should all be sent straight to Gaza.

Charlie| 1.7.09 @ 12:15AM

Kook or not, it pisses me off to high heaven when I know that my tax dollars go towards arming a foreign nation that kills innocent civilians. I mean, is this really what I'm working 4 months out of the year for? Slaving away for this... is so wrong.

Scott Harmon| 1.7.09 @ 12:19AM

Israel is a military dictatorship, that is, a failed state. It has too many nukes per person to be a realistic democracy, and it is too small to matter in the scheme of world events. It's time for the U.S. to unass this parasite and make this artificial "state" work for its living, rather than wait around for its next handout from the U.S.

Sean| 1.7.09 @ 12:24AM

Israel looks after their interest including attacking a U.S. warship and spying on the U.S. It is time for the U.S. to do the same. I would take Ron Paul over any other Republican in office.

Kevin| 1.7.09 @ 12:25AM

Ah, can't you just see Phil Kline writing back at the country's early years.

In particular, what he would have written about George Washington's farewell address where he advised us that:

"nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations, and passionate attachments for others, should be excluded"

and that we should also be careful to refrain from these entangling alliances because

"...a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification."

I'm sure Klein and all his mindless babbling followers would be chirping about what a "paranoid" untrustworthy "kook" of a "crazy" man he was.

DixieFlatline| 1.7.09 @ 12:28AM

Who in their right mind wouldn't condemn the use of their tax dollars to kill civilians (including children) in a prison ghetto, that will further radicalize the world against them?

Kudos to Ron Paul, someone who understands that America's role should be fostering peace and diplomacy, not equipping one side to slaughter the other, and then pretend she has given no one cause to be sore with her.

The great irony of the Israeli-Palestine conflict, is that the so-called terrorist Palestinians, continue to die in much greater number than their targets. These are either the worlds more ineffective terrorists, or ....

Schvenzlerman| 1.7.09 @ 12:36AM

Klein - Ron Paul has never argued that "U.S. bombing of Iraq in the 1990's was the cause of 9/11" as you wrote. Rather, he argued in support of the CIA and 9/11 Commission conclusions that 9/11 was blowback from decades of U.S. foreign policy in the region. Take it up with them if you wish, but get your facts straight.

There is no need for Ron Paul to criticize Hamas. He stated that Israel has the right to defend itself but that the U.S. should take no sides and have no involvement in the matter.

The Earth will fall into the black hole at the center of the Milky Way galaxy before the Israeli and Palestinian dispute might end, so please learn to watch football as a substitute for your interest in their affairs.

Dave| 1.7.09 @ 12:37AM

We are losing America to warmongers, banksters, and globalists. Ron Paul is a man of integrity and calm in the midst of a whirlwind.

Anti-Zionist| 1.7.09 @ 12:39AM

Does it surprise anyone that a Zionist Jew boy would scrape up an article trying to besmirch Ron Paul?

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 12:40AM

Who let all of the Paul freaks escape from their nut house? You people are as stupid as your leader, Paul, and you probably look as crazy as he does.

Jimmy| 1.7.09 @ 12:41AM

---Our support, Paul argues...cause of 9/11.---

Blowback is more objective fact than opinion, anyone who denies is truly a moron. The head of the CIA unit specializing in Al-Qaida, Michael Schuerer, confirms the blowback theory. There is no point in making it complicated, though: If I came into your house and told you how to run things, wouldn't you be mad? We have been doing this to the Middle East since Operation Ajax in the 1950s.

Neocons don't like history, though.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 12:43AM

The last blogger, A-Z, symbolizes all of you evil, racist, anti-semitic morons who support Ron Paul.

Fritz Groszkruger| 1.7.09 @ 12:46AM

Enough already. Let's hear a reasoned response from a supporter of the US taxpayers' financing of Israel. Or any other foreign power.

Kurtis| 1.7.09 @ 12:47AM

Man....Israel must feel really tough, using airstrikes on people who have no air force. Israel is the thorn in the side of the Middle East.

The voice of reason!!!

Jimmy| 1.7.09 @ 12:47AM

Very astute, Ruth. Your arguments are unbiased and well-thought out.

Citizen Quasar| 1.7.09 @ 12:51AM

It has now been proven in Israeli newspapers, that Israel started preparing for the attack they are in the process of BEFORE the event. THEN, they provoked the Palestinians by bombong them. When the palestinians responded, Israel put their sinister genocidal plan into actiom.

Check your sources and stop the false propaganda!

Hewhocorrupts| 1.7.09 @ 12:51AM

Ruth: the real racist, anti-semitic morons are those who live within the borders of Israel.....

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 12:51AM

Jimmy, what's unbiased and well-thought out about your fellow poster's Zionist Jew boy? You racist moron.

mpolzkill| 1.7.09 @ 12:52AM

Wow! Nice job, Eddie, Adam, Kevin Southwick, Thomas, Jon, Stephen, Joe, Tommy, Brent, Christopher, Marc, J Cortez, hardrain, Fabric Softener, Charlie, Scott, Kevin, Dixie, Schvenzlerman & Dave!

ruth:

Do you have any cards to play other than chanting "crazy!" & anti-semite? 1 out of 24 people says something racist, so we're all crazy racists. That makes sense.

Alan Brooks| 1.7.09 @ 12:52AM

boy, the jealous are out in force tonight. Jealous of successful Israel, sympathetic to loser Arabs.
Arabs treat women like total garbage. Sarah Palin would be dead in an Arab nation just for what she wears. BTW, Ruth, I forgot Sarah's son was in the service. But I heard one of her sons is militia-type. Could be an anti-Palin smear job.
Ruth, nothing wrong with Palin okay? will leave it at that. At least she is not violently antisemitic (or masochistic pro-Palestinian Jewish) like so many guys on this blog. Women could do a better job than men true Ruth. But theyre too civilized for this world.
Makes you wish Daphne Kenward was here today.

Herman Roy| 1.7.09 @ 12:53AM

Ron Paul is the best for America at this point in history. All complaints we hear come from israeli trolls, since Ron wanted to cut off funds to ALL countries (that's MY money!), especially the parasites in the ME. Without any undeserved funds, and Arabs receive much less anyway, israel will have to work insted of create genocidal wars with US Fodder and Equipment, or fade away in the wind. RP avoids condemnation from the Zionist US Media by not declaring 911 a local terrorist act, which was, or charges of anti-pseudo-Semitism for blasting the genocists in israel directly and exclusively, but all truthers know how skilfull he is dealing in public with the scourge of humanity, yet avoiding the outcry of these enemies of America.

TJ| 1.7.09 @ 12:53AM

Ruth is an intellectual obviously.

William| 1.7.09 @ 12:53AM

Ron Paul is the only republican worth a damn. The
rest are a bunch of mindless zionist Nazis. Can't wait
for Nazi israel to be wiped off the map.

James| 1.7.09 @ 12:53AM

Its an absolute thrill to see the likes of Klien and the nitwits who buy into his nonsense get an earfull from the true freedom loving America! Ron Paul rEVOLution!

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 12:53AM

He's the only one with the balls to admit to his bigotry, the rest of you are cowards.

Jimmy| 1.7.09 @ 12:54AM

When did I say I agree with him calling him a Jew boy? Anti-semites are a crude and vicious sort and don't deserve a thinking person's second thought.
You are putting words in my mouth, like a good Neocon. Have I said a single racist thing?
I simply oppose terrorism in all its forms, especially the state-sponsored kind.

Roger| 1.7.09 @ 12:54AM

CEASE FIRE!!!!!!.....Lets get some PEACE!!!!!!!!
BTW......Ron Pauls the Man..........

Alan brooks| 1.7.09 @ 12:57AM

look at the hate on this blog tonight! A far right worse than Alan Keyes whackjob like Ron Paul is some kind of Icon to these foamers-at-the-mouths?

I like Israel more than ever, now!

John| 1.7.09 @ 12:58AM

It's so American to put Israel before America.

That's some sound logic right there.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 12:59AM

Ron Paul is a loser, and so are you. He'll never be elected to the presidency--your's is a dying cause. TJ are the initials for Tijuana, Mex.

mpolzkill| 1.7.09 @ 1:00AM

"I like Israel more than ever, now!"

I'm getting flashbacks to 3rd grade. This is the best you can do?

Alan Brooks| 1.7.09 @ 1:01AM

Ruth
please understand i dont mean to impugn Palin at all. Just dont know if she'll be ready when the time comes-- if it comes.
i'm just in shock at the venom on this blog tonight! Unglaublich!

Citizen Quasar| 1.7.09 @ 1:01AM

Alan Brooks | 1.7.09 @ 12:52AM:

That's a GOOD excuse to kill them all! Kill the women...that will show the "Arab" (And a Palestinian that I lived with once told me that Palestinians are NOT Arabs.) men how to treat their women.

Hell, kill the children too! Put on some Toby Keith!

Sprawl| 1.7.09 @ 1:02AM

Fargin please. Could you worms try to figure out what is going on before pulling the cork out of your duck's-arse mouths? All info on this is readily available... you can read all about how this attack was planned for the last 6 months and how ISRAEL broke the cease-fire (which they NEVER honored to the slightest degree, in terms of allowing passage both in and out of the KILLING PIT known as Gaza...) Fxxx it... why am I talking to soap carvings?

Jimmy| 1.7.09 @ 1:03AM

You are correct Ruth, liberty is very much a dying cause.
But you last comment on Tijuana lets me know that you are not to be taken seriously

John| 1.7.09 @ 1:03AM

ruth, dear. Why don't you just go on over and help out in the fight? It's easy to sit on a PC and root along. Go on over and atleast see to it that all of OUR money gets the most BANG for the buck.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 1:04AM

I'd heard that Ron Paul's followers were a little over the top, but I didn't know that they were such vicious haters. I'll make sure my friends know. Such a nasty bunch of losers.

James| 1.7.09 @ 1:04AM

Ron Paul doesnt have to be elected to the rotten, corrupt, tyrannical office of presidency. He has already made a profound difference in the cause of liberty. You, ruth would stand well to take heed of his message for your childrens sake.

Alan Brooks| 1.7.09 @ 1:05AM

mpolzKILL??

What a 2nd grade moniker! 1st?
you think?
-------------------------------------------------
Ruth,
im sorry for all this. I dont enjoy it one bit. its very sad.

Jimmy| 1.7.09 @ 1:05AM

Once more, I ask that my comments of hatred and racism be pointed out. I will immediately retract them.

Herman Roy| 1.7.09 @ 1:07AM

To the hate-spewers from the ME, you are not frying an egg. No matter what nonsense you post, the world knows the insanity and criminality of the 'leaders' of israel, and the genocidal tendencies of the herd. Notice how these born-cowards attack only those countries with outdated armament and miniature armies, while their infallible aim is always the children of these countries, women, and unarmed men. Children especially are their sacrifice to their satanic god Molech.

Alan Brooks| 1.7.09 @ 1:08AM

Ruth,
Ron Pauls people arent conservatives any more than Pat Buchanan's are. THEY ARE RABID SORE LOSERS.

Paul lost as a godamned candidate you blockheads-- he wasnt even close!

anwser this| 1.7.09 @ 1:08AM

Someone pull out a map drawn before 1946 and find the countries of Israel and Palestine. Then go to a current map and find the countries Israel and Palestine. I wonder why the Palestinians are outraged?

And for all you conservative christian war mongers, wasn't it the jews that chose barnabus over jesus?

QED

Marcello Donato| 1.7.09 @ 1:09AM

John Stewart even agrees that the media coverage of the Israeli-Gaza conflict is biased towards Israel. That is not the problem.

The problem is that most people get their information from essentially very few media outlets who are all in some way or another connected to the military industrial complex.

The truth is that if we... the mighty United States of America ceased imposing our will on other countries, it would have a viral effect on other nations of the world. But alas... we did not elect Ron Paul... the only candidate who would have pursued a humble foreign policy that the founders intended.

As an added bonus, he would have worked to abolish the Federal Reserve.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 1:10AM

Alan, no worries. Their hatred will consume them, and I have to laugh that their little man will never, ever be elected to the presidency. I pity the fools.

mpolzkill| 1.7.09 @ 1:10AM

That's my name there, Mr. Sensitivity. Do either of you have any facts, any arguments?! Bah, you two aren't worth the trouble.

Alan Brooks| 1.7.09 @ 1:11AM

Herman Roy,
the reason their armament is outdated is they are
third world-cesspool
ISLAMOFASCIST losers.

Peter| 1.7.09 @ 1:11AM

Shortly after the Rabin-Arafat agreement was signed the Dutch government, as part of the aid package for the new fledgling Palestine, built a harbour in Gaza. When it was halfway finished, Israel sent torpedo boats that destroyed it. So if you get oranges grown in the Gaza strip they have to go via an Israeli merchant, who picks his percentages. The same applies for the West bank who are not allowed to export to Jordan, despite that the area has been a part of Jordan and Israel and Jordan signed peace agreements.

It is this denial of ordinary trade, that strangles Palestine and created the cess pool of corrupt Arafat cronies. It caused the rise of Hamas in the Gaza strip.

These stupid Israeli policies, denying peaceful economic development, have caused even solid social and economic conservative politicians in Europe, that once were staunch Israel supporters in the 1970s, to have second thoughts about it today. The country was greatly admired, but doubts are now all around.

It is only in the USA were the Israel myth still thrives.

James| 1.7.09 @ 1:11AM

Alan, you miss the point. Freedom, not statism is popular. His movement will live on long after his retirement and will be even stronger in the coming years. We all stand to benefit from liberty, why so hostile towards it?

answer this| 1.7.09 @ 1:11AM

uh, we gave up on the presidency long ago. now which republican candidates movement was cited in the recent GOP chairman national debate? was is McCain? Palin? Huckster? you'll never get it

QED

Alan Brooks| 1.7.09 @ 1:12AM

SO WHY COME HERE THEN YOU OVEREDUCATED BLOCKHEAD MZPOLKILL!

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 1:14AM

Then get off of our site, freak.

Stephen| 1.7.09 @ 1:14AM

Ruth:

I don't know why you are name-calling some of us that are commenting here. I was simply responding to the author's statement that Dr. Paul never speaks out against attacks by Palestine.

You are clearly anti-Ron Paul, which is a valid opinion to have. However, I am curious what you think about the quote I left above.

thanks!

Roger| 1.7.09 @ 1:15AM

Hey allen and ruth......Yall seem to spewin more hate than anyone....Peace.....Annnnnnd Ron Pauls the MAN!!!!!!

Schvenzlerman| 1.7.09 @ 1:15AM

Ruth - You've indicated that Ron Paul is a bigoted anti-semite, so you may be interested to know that his political and economic mentors and advisors were nearly all Jewish. His two biggest heroes are Ghandi and the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. If memory serves me correctly, Ron Paul just may have been the candidate who promised to end the pathetically futile and destructive War on Drugs and pardon all non-violent drug offenders. Aren't they predominantly minorities? Some bigoted anti-semite there, you betcha by golly.

Jimmy| 1.7.09 @ 1:17AM

Careful, schvenz, you are sounding awfully Jew-hating, there.

Herman Roy| 1.7.09 @ 1:18AM

There are two outstanding israeli (or dual-passport?) trolls in this thread. Arrogant as they can be, can't realize that the unthinkable and unexpected was done by Ron Paul. He said far more that JFK did (before he was murdered by the same breed) and awoke the sleepers of this nation and the world. The toothpaste is out of the tube, and these parasites cannot put it back into the tube. The internet exposed them for what they are, and are against, and will never be forgotten or forgiven for all their crimes and treason. Keep dreaming, morons. The clock is ticking backwards, the end is in the horizon.

mpolzkill| 1.7.09 @ 1:19AM

I didn't know you had no arguments. You're right, I should have known better, I'm sorry. You shall have this site all to yourselves very soon.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 1:22AM

Actually, Stephen, I didn't know much about Paul before you vicious bigots crashed our site. But you people do him a huge disservice with your vicious attacks. You've totally screwed him in our eyes.

Schvenzlerman| 1.7.09 @ 1:24AM

Jimmy - I presume that you were joking about me being a Jew-hater. That feat would be a little difficult.

Jimmy| 1.7.09 @ 1:24AM

Ruth, what has Stephen said that was bigoted?

Also, are you the owner of this site? Do you finance it?

Jimmy| 1.7.09 @ 1:24AM

Yes I was joking, my friend. No worries.

mpolzkill| 1.7.09 @ 1:25AM

Wait a second, Ruth. Was this before or after you said: "I never did trust this guy; I just knew he was a horse's butt."?

answer this| 1.7.09 @ 1:27AM

and can someone lay claim to what my 'vicious attacks' were?

Bill| 1.7.09 @ 1:30AM

"Paul was in Congress when Israel bombed Iraq’s Osirak nuclear plant in 1981 and — unlike the United Nations and the Reagan administration — defended its right to do so. He says Saudi Arabia has an influence on Washington equal to Israel’s. His votes against support for Israel follow quite naturally from his opposition to all foreign aid."
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/22/magazine/22Paul-t.html?pagewanted=4

Jimmy| 1.7.09 @ 1:30AM

Verbally defending Gaza civilians=anti-semitism.

It's like 1+1=2 in its obviousness.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 1:35AM

What I meant is that Ron Paul's face LOOKS like a horse's butt. You ass-clowns can crash this site but Paul will still never be president. Your leader is a loser and that means you are all losers too.

Jimmy| 1.7.09 @ 1:39AM

Why does it matter what his face looks like? Golda Meir was the ugliest woman of all time. But I criticize her for policies.

"this site"? I thought it was YOUR site.

We know RP will never be president. It is impossible for a capitalist to be president in a corporatist nation.

It seems the only one spewing hate is you.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 1:39AM

Alan, maybe if we spray a lot air freshener on this site we can get rid of the stench of those Ron Paul losers. It's going to take a while longer to be rid of their rank bigotry, though.

answer this| 1.7.09 @ 1:40AM

We gave up on president long ago. Why is it so hard for neocons to grasp that we're about the ideas championed by Ron Paul, not the man himself? Can you not see the difference? That's why RP and his philosophy (and that of this nation's founders) keeps being brought up, in neocon blogs, or even in the recent GOP National Chairman debates. Where are the youtubes of McCain or Palin? Nobody cares about those people, because similarly, noboday cares about their doublespeak philosophies.

Timothy Bevin| 1.7.09 @ 1:40AM

Ron Paul's entire life and political career is a testament to strong family values, fiscal responsibility and treating others as you wish to be treated. Sadly, it seems most people in this country do not value these characteristics in their leaders, which is why we have the dishonest officials we currently have leading our county down the path of financial ruin. The good news is, if vote figures can be trusted, at least 1 million people do still want a leader like Ron Paul.

Schvenzlerman| 1.7.09 @ 1:41AM

The reality is that Ron Paul was the only conservative in the race whether measured in terms of economic, domestic or foreign policy. The candidates were all big-government Statists who were supportive of the financially ruinous war machine that is operated for mercantile purposes and the police state that has been developing. The last hundred years of such rule has finally caught up to us and the U.S. is now on its ass. The nation is flat broke and will probably break up just like the Soviet Union when the Dollar finally goes through its last death throes.

Ron suffered media blackout and marginalization because he cannot be controlled by the establishment to whom the GOP and Democratic parties answer. I don't think he'll ever be President either, but he has set the stage for someone else.

Jefferson wrote that every generation deserves a new Revolution (peaceful).

Bill| 1.7.09 @ 1:42AM

"You ass-clowns can crash this site but [McCain] will still never be president. Your leader is a loser and that means you are all losers too. "

Daniel| 1.7.09 @ 1:43AM

The republicans that have a problem with Ron Paul are the same repubicans that never saw the finanical crisis coming, and thus lost 30-40% of their portfolio. They are the same GOPers that just lost their butts in the market while the rest of us actually payed attention and pulled out of the market when it was obvious what was going to happen. (Newsflash... Ron Paul was predicting this crash for the last 3 years.)

They'll be wondering why they'll be losing elections for a generation. It would be funny if it weren't so sad and destructive.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 1:45AM

Nice try, Jimmy. You are a group of very ugly haters. I haven't had the misfortune of meeting up with such sick rage , ever, actually. Don't try to play good cop now--you people are not good.

Schvenzlerman| 1.7.09 @ 1:45AM

Ruth - Just out of curiosity, which candidate did you support in the primary?

Jimmy| 1.7.09 @ 1:47AM

What did I try to do Ruth? You seem to know more about me than I do myself. Please enlighten me on the subject of me.
While we're on the subject, WHAT comments of mine make me racist swine? Direct quotes from posts above, please.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 1:48AM

How many votes did Paul get, Bill? A couple thousand, right?That makes you not only a loser but a joke too.

Stephen| 1.7.09 @ 1:51AM

Ruth,

Sorry if you think that I am a loser, I won't take offense.

I legitimately came here to have some discussion about Ron Paul's policy views, which I feel a few others have come to do as well. Sadly, the discussion has been eroded into petty name-calling, poking fun at RP's looks, etc.

So again, I hope we can discuss Ron Paul's foreign policy or his stance on Israel or his stance on Hamas. Let me know if you're interested.

Daniel| 1.7.09 @ 1:52AM

It's quite entertaining to watch "conservatives" insinuate antisemitism for Ron Paul not supporting Israel blindly and stupidly. I thought that was more of a leftist bag, but I guess what's the difference anymore? It's getting more difficult to distinguish American Spectator and National Review readers from bolsheviks by the day.

BTW. Likud was leading in the polls prior to this incident. This wouldn't have anything to do with national elections coming up, or the fact that we are in a presidential transition would it? Israel has never done anything like that before. (Eyes roll.)

Politicians are politicians. Get a grip people.

TBR| 1.7.09 @ 1:52AM

I guess Dr. Paul just makes too much sense for the Spectator.

Typical Neo-Con propaganda.

Herman Roy| 1.7.09 @ 1:54AM

"...Alan Brooks | 1.7.09 @ 1:11AM
Herman Roy,
the reason their armament is outdated is they are third world-cesspool ISLAMOFASCIST losers...."

Alan, you can't lie to the world anymore. The reason it was outdated was they were not interested in making wanton wars to steal land and oil as the israelis did since their invasion of Palestine. And since then, israel was treasonously and criminally 'aided' with billions of US tax-robbed dollars (from tax-payers) and modern war equipment, while the Arabs were not. No pride in this, eh? Only arrogance?

As for cesspool, I don't know anyone from Palestine but I have seen the videos and read the documents showing the cesspool that lived in Europe and was scorned at by their despicable traits and manners, including their pathetic living conditions. The jews. Google: The Eternal Jew.

'Islamofascists', that's a jew-created term to demonize Arabs but it is as false and meaningless as the term 'anti-semite'. 'Fascism', another jew invention as Communism, Bolshevism, Socialism, Capitalism, Zionism, and won't be surprised if also Nazism (AshkeNAZI), fascism means State-CorpoRAT alliance and despotic rule.

How can the Islamic 'cesspool' in the ME be called 'fascist'? What CorpoRATs are there in Gaza? And they are not 'losers', they are victims of genocide by the israeli terrorist tribe, armed to the teeth by their Crypto moles in the US government, the ZioKhans in the Demonic party, the Pentagon, and White House. Geesh! You should be ashamed to call yourself 'jew'!

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 1:54AM

You people are clueless. Just read your posts. Even the most obnoxious liberal trolls that attack this site aren't as venomous as you people. No wonder your candidate sucked big time in the election. If you are his representatives, he must be a big league a-hole. I didn't even think this until you guys bullied your way onto this thread. With friends like you, Paul doesn't need enemies. I hate him big time now--because of you.

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 1:54AM

Ron Paul is not anti-Israel. He supports Israel's right to exist and believes that the best thing that the US can do for Israel is to leave the ME alone. And I, as both a Ron Paul and Israel supporter, understand the logic behind that belief, as I've seen the US try to put a leash on Israel and force Israel into concessions.

The US can't help Israel. Only Israel can take care of herself. And many Israelis are becoming aware of the double-edged nature of US aid, and are supportive of Israeli independence. And I think we Americans who truly care about Israel's well-being can do that by support Ron Paul's message of peace and freedom.

Schvenzlerman| 1.7.09 @ 1:54AM

Ruth - Paul received over a million votes in the primaries. He killed Rudy. Huckabee ran out of money. McCain had to violate FCC law in order to get to NH. Romney was just not interesting and America is just not going to elect a Mormon, certainly not the South. Obama yes, Mormon no.

You did not answer the question. Who did you support in the primaries?

Jimmy| 1.7.09 @ 1:57AM

Ruth, your comments make as much sense as the following:
Because your name is Ruth, you have made me hate one of the more unique and intriguing books of the Tanakh

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 1:58AM

Ruth, I hope you realize that a good majority of us Ron Paul supporters are not seething Jew-hating fanatics. There's some nutjobs in our movement, but every movement attracts fringe elements.

Schvenzlerman| 1.7.09 @ 1:59AM

Yo, Ruthie? Which one?

Jimmy| 1.7.09 @ 1:59AM

John McNeil, you make a good point. Are not those screaming about the need to aid Israel suggesting that the Jews are too infantile and pathetic to defend themselves? Is that not anti-semitic?

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 2:00AM

Stephen, I might have been interested before, but not now. I had no quarrel with Paul before his mighty ambassadors showed up to fight on his behalf. Like I said before, you people do him no favors. You sow hatred and discord. No thanks.

Jimmy| 1.7.09 @ 2:02AM

Ruth, please quote me a line of mine that makes me racist. This is a repeat request. The failure to respond in a meaningful way will be construed as a failure to find a racist comment of mine.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 2:02AM

Schvenzlerman, don't call me Ruthie, dude. That's reserved for my friends.

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 2:02AM

Jimmy, I wouldn't necessarily say "anti-Semitic" but definitely oblivious to Israel's capability of annihilating most of the world's armies except perhaps the US and China.

And if you people who are angry at Ron Paul will listen to the rest of the video you will understand how we as a nation can't afford to give out aid, even to allies, as we are on the verge of financial collapse.

Matthew| 1.7.09 @ 2:03AM

Wow, I know. That is ridiculous. He actually believes that bombing a nation that didn't attack us might have negative consequences? What a kook!

Dr. Paul, as soon as you drop your insane ideas of peace and humble foreign policy, you will have my support. But until you adopt a militaristic foreign policy, forget it!

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 2:05AM

Ruth, I find it amazing how you read a few posts by certain knuckleheads and you judge us all to be of the same mold.

I've been tempted many times to dismiss all mainstream conservatives as neo-cons, when in fact I've learned that life is much more complex, and things can't be so easily lumped into boxes.

Matthew| 1.7.09 @ 2:06AM

"What I meant is that Ron Paul's face LOOKS like a horse's butt. You ass-clowns can crash this site but Paul will still never be president. Your leader is a loser and that means you are all losers too. "

You have us beat. What can we possibly say against that invincible logic?

Daniel| 1.7.09 @ 2:07AM

Good post John McNeil. I agree. The point is that American policy effectively intervenes counterproductively. Israel’s sovereignty is hobbled by our overbearing relationship. They pull stunts like this last one in the Gaza to trigger calculated reactions from Washington, which emboldens hardliners that never want to accept that some sort of coexistence must be struck.

The unintended consequence is, of course, that the United States actually causes more instability, danger for Israelis, and American citizens.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 2:09AM

Jimmy, it's called guilt by association, ever heard of it? If people were spewing hatred on my behalf I believe it would be fair for the beneficiaries of that hate to think less of me. All I know of Ron Paul has pretty much been spit at me tonight and it hasn't been real pretty, boys. By the way, where are the women in your group? Scared them off, troglodytes?

Herman Roy| 1.7.09 @ 2:09AM

"...ruth | 1.7.09 @ 1:48AM
How many votes did Paul get, Bill? A couple thousand, right?That makes you not only a loser but a joke too...."

ruth, tsk, tsk... what a loser. You and your kind thought you had an open road to the presidency for your puppet Obuma-McSqueal-Whoever. NOT. And here comes RP, totally supported by true grassroots, true Americans, unhindered by the mouth-pieces in the Zionic Lying Media, and shakes the straw polls to their corrupt and manipulated foundations.

Unfortunatelly, the jew monopoly of Media is absolute, and the Sheeple won't vote for candidates they don't know even exist. Elemental. But that the Zionists were bed wetting they were. They tossed 10 candidates to compete with Ron, and failed. What you don't know and the rest of you don't know is what is happening behind the scenes and down at the precint level.

And with Zionist marionette Obuma in hot waters, we may yet see the unthinkable taking place this year: the full exposure of the Zio-jew conspiracy to destroy the USA from within, and a blowback that will send the tribe scrambling for airplanes out of the country. The people are mad as hell and won't take any more garbage from the Plague.

Sam Adams| 1.7.09 @ 2:11AM

Ruth you argue like a 2 year old. At least your are consistent in condemning all of the Paul supporters because of one or two anti-jewish posts. What are you trying to hide? I don't see the hate. You argue like a liberal which is to say based on everything but reason. Get a life ass clown. You make 'your' site look pathetic. It reads like a militant version of Salon. Pinkos in ties and golf pants.

Jimmy| 1.7.09 @ 2:13AM

Guilt by association is a logical fallacy. See the following: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt_by_association

Your trog comment is another logical fallacy called ad hominem. See the following: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Your arguments must be free of logical fallacies to be valid. Until then, they are irrelevant.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 2:13AM

Go away, Sam. You're so clever you have to repeat my words. Freak. You people are a bunch of freaks.

Stephen| 1.7.09 @ 2:16AM

Ruth,

While I wish things had turned out differently, this experience has made me realize something about foreign policy. You were turned off to a bunch of Ron Paul supporters coming to a blog you enjoy, The American Spectator, and trying to bully you around and telling you how to think.

While here in the small scale of a comment thread, you simply hurled insults back at the Ron Paul supporters, which you had every right to do.

Now imagine this on the scale of countries, but instead of us just bantering on in a comment thread, we not only arrived and told you how to think, we killed your fellow countrymen in the name of liberation and democracy.

I argue that regardless of intentions, as Americans seem to have the best intentions when "making the world safe for democracy", it ends up being the loser when it bullies its way around the world imposing itself on everyone.

jamie| 1.7.09 @ 2:17AM

Matthew, Ruth? you should grow-up are you all in Highschool or just freakin ignorant? Ron Paul is a Patriot, and you should be in Gaza! so you can get a taste of Genocide

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 2:17AM

Actually, Jimmy, Ron Paul is irrelevant--and that's precisely why you nutjobs are so pissed off.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 2:20AM

Bingo, Stephen. Give the man a prize. You people are exactly what you claim to hate so much about your own country. A little self-elucidation for all of you. A lot of hypocrisy.

Matthew| 1.7.09 @ 2:20AM

Seriously? Are you THAT bad at catching sarcasm?

answer this| 1.7.09 @ 2:21AM

if he's so irrelevant, why is he getting a blog posting on this site?

QED

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 2:22AM

Just remember, Stephen, you were the aggressor.

Jimmy| 1.7.09 @ 2:22AM

Ruth, I couldn't particularly care less about Ron Paul the man. I've never met him, probably won't ever. He means nothing to me, though I've heard he is a good family man and that I can respect.

By not responding to my previous post pointing out your logical fallacies, you have now committed a 3rd. Actually, one you have been using all night, called the Red Herring. You are attempting to distract from the issue of American foreign policy and its consequences with shrieking claims of racism. See the following: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring_(logical_fallacy)#Red_herring

Daniel| 1.7.09 @ 2:22AM

Holy cow Herman Roy, that's pretty wild. I'm sure there are a few jews out there that wished they had that much control--as well as a few gentiles--but its just not so.

Ron Paul was blacklisted because he isn't a statist. He calls out the Federal Reserve, and the warfare/welfare state, and everyone in Washington, the GOP, the mainstream media, and the Democrat party rely on the status quo.

It's not diabolical "zionist" scheming; it's the schloratic, ossified, very predictable natural course of statism.

Ron Paul is a legitimate enemy of the state's legitimacy, and thus a target for all those that depend upon the state.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 2:23AM

Man, Herman, talk about self-hatred. You need meds, stat!

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 2:24AM

If Ron Paul is so irrelevant, then why have all the candidates for the RNC chairmanship made positive overtures to Ron Paul and his supporters during a recent debate? They all admired our dedication and were talking about including us in the affairs of the GOP? Two years ago we were outcasts? Explain.

Schvenzlerman| 1.7.09 @ 2:24AM

Dearest Ruth - I'll help you here since you might be typing from overseas. Here are the establishment candidates:

Rudy - He was the psychopath. His father was a stickup man. He was the serial adulterer who last married a serial adulterer.

McCain - He was actually not Constitutionally eligible for office since he was born in a Panamanian hospital rather than on a U.S. military base, but the Senate gave him a thumb's-up resolution to encourage him. He was the one who was virtually last in his Naval Academy graduating class. A bad pilot, he lost four or five planes before getting shot down and he killed a bunch of sailors performing a stupid wet-start stunt on a carrier deck. He was an adulterer who ditched his crippled former model wife for a rich model whose Daddy bought him a Congressional seat. He never held a job in the private sector. He got an F from the Gun Owners of America and was called "the worst 2nd Amendment candidate" by the NRA. Keating Five guy.

Huckabee - He's the former preacher who became morbidly obese and then lost a hundred pounds. A true liberal, he loves government programs. He's funny and he plays the guitar. He hates Ron Paul.

Romney - He was the boring one with plastic hair who became super-rich making other people super-rich buying companies and firing lots of people to boost their former employers' profit before selling them. Rudy wanted to gouge out and eat his eyeballs. Mormon. Dad ran American Motors.

Which one?

Brandon| 1.7.09 @ 2:25AM

Everyone, please keep in mind that Alan and especially Ruth may be sticking around to get egg you on until you say some wrong sh.t and then use that as a "quote from a ron paul supporter"

Ruth probably isnt even a woman. Maybe its Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity sitting back and laughing at you right now and writing down every bad quote. IGNORE THEM!

We all know whos right, history knows whos right. People who dont blindly support bloodshed are right!

jme| 1.7.09 @ 2:26AM

rich jews on Dope, FYNYRCK

Craig| 1.7.09 @ 2:26AM

"The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible. So far as we have already formed engagements, let them be fulfilled with perfect good faith. Here let us stop. Europe has a set of primary interests which to us have none; or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies, the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves by artificial ties in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of her friendships or enmities. "

Who said that quote?

George Washington.

And Yale Law School has the full text:
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/washing.asp

Herman Roy| 1.7.09 @ 2:26AM

"...ruth | 1.7.09 @ 2:09AM
Jimmy, it's called... By the way, where are the women in your group? Scared them off, troglodytes?..."

ruth, your eloquence and your name make me wonder, though not too much... are you a lez? Your vicious attacks on a gentleman like Ron Paul definitely rank you among the man-like yenta lesbians. And that would scare even a troglodyke!

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 2:26AM

Jimmy, who the hell are you, the hall monitor? I don't give a damn what you think of me. Megalomania.

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 2:27AM

Don't forget Fred Thompson... the early Messiah for the GOP who was so boring that he requested an audience to applaud. ;)

Michael Dane Petersen| 1.7.09 @ 2:29AM

"Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all Nations...entangling alliances with none"
- Thomas Jefferson

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy" - Ron Paul

Daniel| 1.7.09 @ 2:29AM

"vicissitudes " is one of the great words in the English language.

Jimmy| 1.7.09 @ 2:29AM

I don't think anything of you other than you are a very emotional supporter of Israel and that clouds your judgment.
I am just telling you that logical argumentation is not a skill of yours, as you have demonstrated. It's objective fact, like Ron Paul's explanation of blowback.

John| 1.7.09 @ 2:29AM

Wow, some real uneducated people in here. America is going down the freakin' river and some of you could care less. What a shame. What a damn shame.

TBR| 1.7.09 @ 2:31AM

Great post Michael Dane!

This hit piece is another example of why the Neo-Coned GOP is not even worthy of Dr. Paul's common sense.

Matthew| 1.7.09 @ 2:31AM

Are any of you sane?

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 2:31AM

For all those posting quotations from our Founding Fathers, thank you. It reminds me who what true conservatism is which is to conserve the ideals of our Founding Fathers who sacrificed everything to create a nation of liberty. And we will do all we can to ensure that the sacrifice of the Founding Fathers will not be in vain.

brandon | 1.7.09 @ 2:31AM

If you ignore them, they will go away!!!!!!!!

Daniel| 1.7.09 @ 2:32AM

John, I think people care, it's just that some misunderstand why our civilization is in decline. The short answer is "statism"

Matthew| 1.7.09 @ 2:34AM

Didn't a lot of our founders own slaves? Seems like there was kind of a lack of freedom there.

Bill| 1.7.09 @ 2:35AM

Ruth,

Well than I guess you've got problems with Guiliani, McCain, and Huckabee. Pat Robertson who came out in support of Guiliani but was happy with the neocon foreign policy in general "Pat Robertson's work, NEW WORLD ORDER, is a catch all for conspiracy theories. It combines the paranoia of the Old Right with modern versions. A summary of Robertson�s book is found on page 177 of the writing in which Pat says a conspiracy has existed in the world working through Freemasonry and a secret Order of the Illumaniti, a group combining Masons and Jewish Bankers...Robertson was accused of anti semitism after the book was published. Researchers found some of his sources were anti semites who blamed Jews for world problems."
http://www.livingston.net/wilkyjr/link26.htm

And John McCain and Huckabee whose endorsement of John Hagee they courted..which was eventually given to McCain. Hagee posits the following antisemitism and crackpottery "anti-Semitism, and thus the Holocaust, was the fault of Jews themselves -- the result of an age old divine curse incurred by the ancient Hebrews through worshiping idols and passed, down the ages, to all Jews now alive....Most readers will be shocked by the clear record of history linking Adolf Hitler and the Roman Catholic Church in a conspiracy to exterminate the Jews." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/21/mccain-backer-hagee-said_n_102892.html

Sorry for the length but you want to play the game of guilt by association you should "hate [them] big time now--because of [their antisemite supporters]

If that, instead of ideas, is the metric of support then I pose the following question. What is more dangerous to our country.. a small number of nutjobs latching on to the candidacy of a non-interventionist like Ron Paul or a bunch of nutjobs latching on to the neocon foreign policies of McCain, Guiliani, Huckabee et al to LITERALLY ignite Armagedden!?!?
http://www.alternet.org/story/39748/

Sorry to the community for the long post but the double standard needs to end. If you want to want to argue on the merits of the ideas..fine. But guilt by association discredits most of the Republican field on your very own terms!

And the scary part is the nutjobs like Hagee and Robertson are mainstream!

Herman Roy| 1.7.09 @ 2:35AM

"...Brandon | 1.7.09 @ 2:25AM
Everyone, please keep in mind that Alan and especially Ruth... Ruth probably isnt even a woman..."

Brandon, you are half-right. I had come to a similar conclusion just by reading 'ruth'. She is a yenta lesbian, that's why she is so rude and stubborn. No need to use a woman's name, the thread and the comments are worthless, so why hide gender? Homosexuality is rampant among the tribe, that's why they enforce and promote homosexuality so much (Tel-Aviv, the modern Sodom and Gomorrah).

Unfortunatelly gays and lez won't couple together, else, the problems of the world would be over. They would extinguish themselves. Get it?

TBR| 1.7.09 @ 2:35AM

Daniel...this is so true. The Neo-Cons are so blinded by ignorance, emotions, and propaganda that they can't understand basic concepts such as having principals and abiding by basic laws, such as the Constitution.

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 2:37AM

Matthew, no one is perfect. ;)

Slavery was indeed the achilles heel of early America, especially since it ultimately led to the first great federal powergrab which occured during the Civil War.

However, since slavery has been abolished for almost a century and a half, we can now fight for the ideals of the Founders with a more clear conscience.

Daniel| 1.7.09 @ 2:37AM

The irony, of course, is that Obama's election might have save the GOP from being pitched into the dustbin of history.

Obama has absolutely no chance. This depression is going to destroy him. Not only does he not have the intellectual toolbox to deal with it--no politicians do, they merely let the market repair the damage of the misallocations of capital during the boom--but the United States doesn't have the balance sheet to withstand his all-but-certain policies.

I give him 2 years until his approval ratings hit 37%.

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 2:40AM

In a sane world Obama will soon have a 0% approval rating, but I fear that the constant media propaganda will shield him, and no doubt they will have plenty of scapegoats. I mean hell, capitalism is being blamed for the current financial mess. :-/

Kudos to the media. ;)

TBR| 1.7.09 @ 2:41AM

Daniel....Obama is already loosing cred with his supporters.... he's beginning to show himself to be much less than the "peace monger" he paraded around as.

I give him 1 year.

Daniel| 1.7.09 @ 2:42AM

However, if I am wrong--at least about Obama's approval rating, the economy and the effect of obamanomics are a given--and his approval ratings actually stay high while the economy deepens its misery, then I'm getting the heck out of dodge ;)

Craig| 1.7.09 @ 2:44AM

The logic break down:
Ron Paul is a kook because he doesn't want to be involved with the mess in Israel.

Washington/Jefferson both stated not to be involved with other countries politics. Therefore, using the neo-con logic:

Our fore fathers were kooks!

Schvenzlerman| 1.7.09 @ 2:44AM

Ruth - You are a poser and the real loser in this group. It's pathetic that you cannot bring yourself to identify the lousy establishment candidate for whom you voted (who lost).

You need to face the truth that you did not support a conservative. You won't until you decide that personal liberty (aka "freedom") not only should be paramount but that it is the ONLY justification for government and that limited, Constitutional government (playing by the rules) is the surest means to ensure that objective.

I met Ron Paul and he frankly meant nothing to me. I supported his ideas. Your candidate was just another whore unless it was the crazy kill-em-all guy from San Diego or Tancredo, his one-note crazy brother from Colorado.

Enjoy your slavery.

Toodles

TBR| 1.7.09 @ 2:44AM

BUT....unfortunate the Neo-Cons are not embracing principals, the Constitution, and sound common sense philosophy of men like Ron Paul. Once Obama starts to fall they will offer the same tired "solution" they always do. They'll spew a bunch of rhetoric about ideals, and getting back to basics, and such....but once they get power, that's all they'll care about....more power.

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 2:45AM

"hen I'm getting the heck out of dodge ;) "

Nooooooo Daniel come back! ;)

We'll need as many patriots as we can muster...

Daniel| 1.7.09 @ 2:45AM

Right TBR. Many Obama supporters remind me of Bush supporters in 2000. Naive.

Javier| 1.7.09 @ 2:46AM

Ruth, you amaze me with your amazing intellect. "Horse butt"? It seems that children like yourself and others who say they could never trust Ron Paul can only muster such nonesense.
Your mistrust of him is exactly why I know he must be doing something right.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 2:46AM

Thanks a lot, Klein. You dropped a bomb by posting your column and look at all of the crap you riled up out of the earth. I think some of the AmSpec writers should do research on these Ron Paul nuts and write about them. It should entertain us for a day or two. They need to get lives, or at the very least, they need to get jobs. Some crazy fools out there.

Matthew| 1.7.09 @ 2:47AM

He will have much higher support than most of you think. Sure his policies are laughable and he is another warmonger, but he also wants to give away lots of free money to people. People will like that....a lot.

Also, he will create lots of employment. Forget the fact that he will do so in sectors which are unprofitable and we will have to pay for it, but low unemployment is an excellent political tool.

Daniel| 1.7.09 @ 2:47AM

John, I'll only emigrate when all is lost. We're not there yet. We are closer than most people realize, however.

Matthew| 1.7.09 @ 2:48AM

People, stop replying to Ruth. It's probably a guy who just gets kicks out of your responses. Don't give it the attention it craves.

ADP| 1.7.09 @ 2:49AM

The situation in Israel is highly complex, but that Bloomberg ne0-con BS is over the top. "Proportionality has no merit". Yes, in order to prevent 2 dead Israelis we should kill a million non-Israelis. Is that what this idiot is condoning? So much for humanism and moral high ground. I'm not sure if this idiot knows what he is saying. That is, I am not sure if he is a fool or a lazy intellectual. Not that he is wrong, only that he is not intelligent enough to see the ends and implications of his philosophy. After seventy years of holocaust anti-genocide propaganda the jews sure did lurch to the Nazi wing of politics. As I said, the situation is highly complex and a deal nearly impossible to broker particularly with militant Islam being one of the parties involved, but when Ron Paul speaks his words hold weight. America first. We are being led down the path of destruction by these Jew Neo-cons.

Craig| 1.7.09 @ 2:49AM

I wonder how many people actually read "American Specator". Simply mentioning Ron Paul in an article got far more attention than this publication will ever on a non-Ron Paul article.

The MSM realized this, when you write about Ron Paul and his movement, the patriots come out of the woodwork to support him. There were many articles over the last year, when Ron Paul was mentioned, hundreds if not thousands of replies would come in either attacking the artcile or supporting it if his views were shown in a good light.

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 2:50AM

Precisely Matthew. If things become worse (as I believe they will) then Obama will blame the centrists in his administration or the obstructionist Republicans and "Blue Dogs" and the media will go along with the lies.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 2:51AM

You people are jokes. So high and mighty, but you're just vulgar hacks and whores who have tried to bully a small site that meant no harm. Liberals and arrogant losers like you; no wonder our country is dying.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 2:52AM

Not the patriots, the nutjobs come out of the woodwork.

Herman Roy| 1.7.09 @ 2:54AM

"...Matthew | 1.7.09 @ 2:34AM
Didn't a lot of our founders own slaves? Seems like there was kind of a lack of freedom there. .."

Matthew, glad you mention it for the world to know, including you. If owning slaves is a sin, though in those times it was 'popular' though not general, it was the jews who brought the slaves to America! Matter of fact the first slaves out of America were made so by 5 'marrano' jews who came with vagrant Cristoforo Colombo...

Google: Who brought the slaves to America.

Since jews prefer to exploit people rather than work for sustenance, they have indulged in slavery since biblical times. Read it. Ah, and 'G-d ordained'.

Just like kids today are indulged into homosexuality and pronography by the jew porno czars, people were indulged into buying slaves to do their chores and grow their fields. After all, the good jews were honorable enterpreneurs, right? And they had a 'legitimate 'trade', right?

Jews cannot destroy America or the world. They are exposed for their treachery, deceit, and rapine. The internet arrested their demented drive for world supremacy. Talk about losers.

Matthew| 1.7.09 @ 2:56AM

Guys, I've reconsidered my prior pissy post and have decided that Ruth is right. Ron Paul is an irrelevant loser and we are too. Why don't we just all go home to our caves and trailers, beat our wives (common-law) around a little, or a lot, and call it a night.

Matthew| 1.7.09 @ 2:58AM

Herman, I'll assume you are joking. But it wasn't funny.

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 2:59AM

Matthew, I've been ignoring Herman the entire time. I think that's the best course of action. ;)

Herman Roy| 1.7.09 @ 2:59AM

God forgive me for my self-hatred and for my treachery toward my own people.

Ruth| 1.7.09 @ 2:59AM

Guys, I've reconsidered my prior pissy post and have decided that Matthew is right. Republicans are irrelevant losers and so am I. Why don't we just all go home to our caves and trailers, beat our wives (common-law) around a little, or a lot, and call it a night.

John| 1.7.09 @ 3:00AM

Craig, you are a fool. Are you even American?

Matthew| 1.7.09 @ 3:01AM

Wow Ruth, that was hilarious.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 3:01AM

I told you guys that you've got a bunch of vicious freaks in your group. Like it or not, that's what people see when they don't know you. Like me.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 3:03AM

Dang, Matthew, even troglodytes have brains. Who would've thunk it?

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 3:09AM

Thank God they are gone. The stench is already starting to dissipate.

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 3:10AM

I'm still here. ;)

:P

Bill| 1.7.09 @ 3:10AM

Since I just walloped Ruth. I really want to take this opportunity to turn my attention to you idiot anti-semites, that have latched on to the Ron Paul movement. Did you know that Ron Paul's only two official campaign economic advisers were Peter Schiff and Don Luskin, both Jewish? That his greatest influences are Ludwig von Mises and Murray Rothbard, again both Jewish. So the candidate that you support has his economic program almost totally informed by Jews! Now since that's probably pretty distasteful to you should go do something more palatable with your time such as collect more Nazi paraphernalia.

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 3:11AM

I totally agree Bill, anti-Semites have no place in a movement led by man who's thinking has been formed by many Jewish intellectuals.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 3:12AM

I want more articles on Ron Paul and his merry band of freaks. Let's shine a little light on this whackjob group. I am curious about them now. Kind of like being curious about a root canal.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 3:15AM

Nice try, Bill and John, but it's too late to clean up your rep now. You should have spoken up sooner, but you let the haters and the lunatics speak for you. Why should I believe that you are decent? Look at the crap you swim with, guys.

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 3:17AM

Like I said before, every movement has its fringe elements. Conservative christianity has its extreme elements, as do liberals. And sometimes its best to ignore the extremists rather than feed them with attention.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 3:18AM

A woman beat your ass, Bill. Chew on that.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 3:19AM

Uh, John, reading through the posts, I think you are the fringe element.

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 3:20AM

Oh that's interesting ruth, how so? ;)

Bill| 1.7.09 @ 3:20AM

Ruth,

Because unlike you and them I respond to relevant arguments. Once I dispatched with your "argument"...I went down another rung on the stupid ladder to the antisemites. Looks like you have more in common with them than I do. Both of you rely on ad hominem that has nothing to do with foreign policy!

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 3:27AM

Look, boys, AmSpec is my site and these people are my friends. Who invited you party crashers? Particularly nasty party crashers, I might add. I'm not your enemy; I am an American (like you?) who is worried sick about my country, the country I love so much. Don't vent your fury at me--I' m not the problem. But I sure as hell won't take any crap from you or anyone else who insults me when they don't even know me. Bring it, I don't give a damn.

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 3:29AM

I'm not a party crasher, I've been on this site before. And when have I thrown insults at you? I've tried to discuss, while you throw nothing but bile.

But it's okay, I'm willing to extend the olive branch once again. :)

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 3:31AM

Because you sound normal, not scary; someone I could talk to. I'm sure we have more in common than not. But I am not a hater, I love people--even those freaks who were posting garbage (though not so much.)

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 3:34AM

Indeed Ruth, if what you say is true, then I think we have plenty of things in common as well. I also love my country and I support Ron Paul's ideas because I believe they are closely aligned to the founding ideals of this nation.

Let's dispense with the insults and shake. :)

HawkWatcher| 1.7.09 @ 3:36AM

Ron Paul displays appalling ignorance concerning the current and historical machinations of the Middle East. USA ally Israel, the lone democratic nation in the ME, has been fighting off Muslim attackers since it's inception into statehood. Ron needs to read the Hamas charter, Qur'an, sira and ahadith. Only then will he fully understand Israel's enemies and the common ideology used to justify 9/11. Israel clearly needs to eradicate Hamas to secure it's border.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 3:37AM

Okay, John, I know you. I didn't realize there were any friendlies in the bunch. I've read and enjoyed your posts before. You have to understand that was a crazy experience with those Ron Paul people. What was that about?

Bill| 1.7.09 @ 3:37AM

I read American Spectator almost every day. They take a tougher line on small government than the mainstream conservative outlets. I post in the comments as well from time to time. As for an earlier response to the antisemites I thought Schvenzlerman @ 1:15AM, took care of it

Rachel| 1.7.09 @ 3:37AM

I am a female Ron Paul supporter, I have met the Man twice and a lot of his family. I gave money to his money bombs and for his 51st anniversary. I stood in the freezing cold trying to wake my fellow Americans up. Did it get me anywhere? No But I did walk away from the voting booth happy with my choice.
Do I like his stance on Foreign Policy? you can bet your azz that I do. In fact that's what drew me to Ron Paul in the first place and everything I learned about the man since then has done nothing to change my mind.
Am I sad he lost? yes. but I have found out that I am not alone with my silly idea's that America needs to mind her own business before it's too late. I have found many Americans right here in my hometown that followed his beacon of light.

I believe that Ruth was a huskster follower. I talked with many of them and she seems to be uninformed of real life. either that or she is one on the "scared Americans" that voted bush in twice and supported Julie Anna. What's your opinion on the economy? 9/11 - Which was his answer for everything 9/11.
If I am a loser for following Ron Paul, so be it. I am proud to be a loser.

I'm proud to be an American
where at least I know I'm free
and I won't forget the men who died
who gave that right to me.

Ron Paul is a classic American.

ruth | 1.7.09 @ 1:35AM

What I meant is that Ron Paul's face LOOKS like a horse's butt. You ass-clowns can crash this site but Paul will still never be president. Your leader is a loser and that means you are all losers too.

drew| 1.7.09 @ 3:38AM

what the hell is the writer of this blog talking about? you say ron paul is condemning Israel's defensive action in Gaza!? maybe you need to watch the video again and wash the wax out your ears. his main point is that the U.S. needs to stay out of this, this is not our fight it's Israels problem.
and he only spoke on gaza for a little less than 3 min you make it sound like he spent 7 min. blasting Israel.

Paul argues, has "antagonized the Muslim/Arab world more than ever before and unfortunately we'll suffer the consequences from this." I wonder what "consequences" he has in mind.

the CONSEQUENCES are events like 9/11 smart guy, and he never said the U.S. bombing of Iraq was the sole reason for 9/11 he said it was contributing factor. it's our foreign intervention propping up dictators and foreign occupation, that motivate terrorist to want to kill us, and cause some Arabs to join terrorist groups. former CIA operative Robert Baer and Michael Scheuer former CIA agent who was in charge of the Bin Laden unit agrees that our foreign intervention is the motiving factor that causes terrorism , guess they are as kooky as Ron Paul, and CNN just did a report about the possibility of Israel breaking the Ceasefire. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KntmpoRXFX4

All you chick hawk Neocons who bash Ron Paul are the reason why the liberals are taking over and winning elections every where. you guys will cause the down fall of the Republican party.

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 3:40AM

Hawkwatcher, when has Ron Paul denounced Israel for attacking Hamas? He is merely calling for the US to stay out of the conflict, which is something that I, an Israel-supporter, agrees with.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 3:40AM

But, first: read the posts. The Ron Paul people came in with guns blazing, insulting Klein. I had to defend him, it wasn't fair for no one to be on his side. Underdog and all that, right? You travel with a rough group--but I've got no quarrel with you, John.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 3:42AM

John, Drew made my point for me. What's with all of the venom? That's the face of Ron Paul supporters.

Rachel| 1.7.09 @ 3:43AM

OOPS, too late, Dems have complete control. let the free ride begin. here's to change!! whats another trillion here or there?

All you chick hawk Neocons who bash Ron Paul are the reason why the liberals are taking over and winning elections every where. you guys will cause the down fall of the Republican party.

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 3:44AM

I'm glad we have quarrel Ruth, but understand the motive of Ron Paul supporters. They read the article by Klein and see his unfair attack on the good doctor, and try to correct the misrepresentation. Some were a bit more harsh, but we Ron Paul supporters, after being accused of being traitors, can be a rather touchy lot.

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 3:45AM

I meant I'm glad we have no quarrel.

Viv| 1.7.09 @ 3:46AM

Bless you Dr. Ron Paul! Thank goodness somebody has the guts to speak the truth.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 3:47AM

Rachel, you're probably a big, smelly guy pretending to be a female supporter of Paul. Ugh! How convenient that a female blogger pops up just when I bring up their obvious abscence. Duh!

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 3:49AM

Ruth, I understand your frustrations now, but I'm going to try to give more details on how we Ron Paul supporters feel.

We've been kicked in the dirt by mainstream conservatism for years, with neocons as the cheerleaders. This goes all the way back to David Frum's hitpiece on anti-war conservatives such as Pat Buchanan being traitors. I was banned on FreeRepublic back in 2004 for daring to mention that Bush isn't a real conservative. And I'm sure others were as well. During the primary we Ron Paul supporters were continually spit upon by mainstream conservative even when we offered to re-energize the movement. I read nothing but hate articles directed at my comrades. We have a huge chip on our shoulder.

Ultimately we should let go of the venom and anger, but it will take time, and hopefully the new RNC chair will help promote reconciliation.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 3:50AM

Traitors? Why? I do think liberals are traitors, though.

Bill| 1.7.09 @ 3:50AM

@hawkwatcher

There are a variety of reasons people use to rile up their supporters. , Jihads, Crusades, Aryanness etc. So did many of those in the Arab world celebrate 9/11 and Israeli destruction, yes they did. The problem is that their is a legitimate issue and injury over land. They use ideology to make it more "noble" and "transcendent" to their followers. Let me ask you this (I don't agree with this.... but for the sake of argument)...if the Palestinians were given all of Jerusalem and there previously occupied land do you really think that they'd still care about ideology? There'd just be a few cranks like the anti-Semites that were here earlier spouting their b.s. but no one pay attention to them.

Rachel| 1.7.09 @ 3:52AM

I went to MN for the rally for the republic. There were 13,000 Ron Paul supporter's, Not one person was arrested at the St Paul side the day of the rally. I went to the free concert there were no fights, no arrests. Everyone was just happy to be there to show our respects to a great man. EVEN though we knew he wasn't even going to be allowed the same rights that a democrat was allowed at the RNC, which was just floor access. I will never forgive the RNC for that indignity.
and I loved that Adam Kokesh was able to get into the RNC with his sign for McCain.
long live Iraqi Veterans Against the War.

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 3:52AM

Ruth, neocons and their mainstream minions believed we were traitors for not supporting Bush's foreign and domestic agenda. Even my own father had a hard time listening to me back in 2004, and now he regrets voting for McCain and Bush. I've felt vindicated these last two years when conservatives were starting to see Bush's anti-conservative nature. And now neocons like David Frum who called people like Dr. Paul traitors are now supporting Obama! Unbelievable. :-/

Rachel| 1.7.09 @ 3:55AM

Nope not a big smelly guy. Just woke up, I had a bad dream that Arabs were going door to door and killing Americans. ( shouldn't have watched news just before bed) checked my daily Ron Paul and guess what I seen? this blog. so here I am.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 3:55AM

Okay, I get the chip, but dang: Overkill don't you think? I've always known Bush wasn't a conservative; compassionate conservatism and all that crap. 9/11 brought out some of his strength, otherwise I'm so not impressed. Obama is real scary, though. Real rough times are coming.

Shannon| 1.7.09 @ 3:55AM

He really "lashed out" all right...

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 3:59AM

Ruth, like I said, we Ron Paul supporters should let go of the anger, especially since even the RNC chairman candidates are taking us seriously. Perhaps for more pragmatic reason, but it's a start.

Despite being excommunicated by mainstream conservatism years ago, I still feel that there's still much in common with Ron Paul's ideas and conservatism and we must work together in order to preserve our country.

Rachel| 1.7.09 @ 3:59AM

I will never support Obama, I will just sit back and wait for all the neo-cons to beg for mercy when they have to submit to his NWO.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 4:01AM

Rachel, it's your dream that makes me quake. No burkas (sp?) for this chick or her daughters. I fear it's coming now that Obomber's in office. I am grateful, and will always be grateful, to the president for no attacks since 9/11.

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 4:01AM

Rachel, I think the neocons will return to their Trotskyite roots and worship King Obama as the Harbringer of world revolution.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 4:04AM

Yes, of course, John. But with liberals, never. I won't submit, Rachel, and neither will millions of us. It could get real interesting.

Rachel| 1.7.09 @ 4:05AM

Ruth what exactly impressed you the most with Bush after 9/11? His declaring the war over and taking combat pay from our troops? His looking for bodies in the mess that was the twin towers until they found the gold and then sold the scraps to China without sorting through it? or maybe it was the way he quit looking for Osama and outsourced it to Pakistan? LOL yep he did a stand up job!!! BRAVO

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 4:08AM

Ruth, I can completely relate to your anger towards liberals. There's times, especially these days, when I want to beat every liberal I know with a sledgehammer. But wisdom has tempered my anger and has helped me to understand that liberals are people like us.

And some of them simply naively think that their ideas will help this country. Those must be reached out to with truth and love. Some are not so radical, and some will not stomach socialism. We must reach out to these people. We'll need all the support we can muster when the time comes.

Rachel| 1.7.09 @ 4:09AM

when you don't submit. they already have the means to deal with you. Bush has already set it up to declare martial law and have you arrested and sent to one of the many camps that have been set up around this great country of ours.

HawkWatcher| 1.7.09 @ 4:11AM

From the post John:
"Via Alarming News and Hot Air, I see this video of Ron Paul condemning Israel's defensive action in Gaza."
Whether you agree with the writer or not, Paul is ignorant. Most Americans support their allies in the free world, and we should help Israel. Their fight is our fight.

Rachel| 1.7.09 @ 4:12AM

There over 600 prison camps in the United States, all fully operational and ready to receive prisoners. They are all staffed and even surrounded by full-time guards, but they are all empty. These camps are to be operated by FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) should Martial Law need to be implemented in the United States.

The Rex 84 Program was established on the reasoning that if a mass exodus of illegal aliens crossed the Mexican/US border, they would be quickly rounded up and detained in detention centers by FEMA. Rex 84 allowed many military bases to be closed down and to be turned into prisons.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread59023/pg1

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 4:15AM

Rachel, I completely agree with your criticisms of Bush and his so-called "9/11 leadership". But it took time for me to learn that. During 9/11 Bush hit many of the right buttons, even I believed in him during that time. Many conservatives who are mad at Bush for many things like amnesty or spending are still charmed by those days, and we can't expect them to change their minds overnight.

Ruth is being much more gracious towards us now, like many other conservatives. Let's ease on the attacks, and work on improving ties with them so we can build a large enough movement that can put a halt to Obama's agenda. :)

Erik| 1.7.09 @ 4:17AM

I just finished reading all of the comments and I hope many others do the same. Ruths childish comments that are meant to get a negative reaction end up making you guys look incredibly intelligent and logical.

Ron Paul would refer to this as blowback.

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 4:18AM

Hawkwatcher, Klein's characterization of Ron Paul's words are grossly distorted.

And as Ron Paul has said before, the best thing we can do for Israel is to leave them alone. Israel needs to stand on her own two feet in order to be a true sovereign nation, and not be harassed by US mediators. In many ways, Bush has been an enemy of Israel since he's been pushing for a division of Jerusalem, along with several Israeli concessions. My stance, along with Dr. Paul's, is to butt out and let Israel handle things.

John McNeilla| 1.7.09 @ 4:28AM

And while Israel crushes Hamas and other Islamist enemies, we Americans need to focus on fighting our own enemies: our politicians. While our politicians don't fire rockets into our neighborhoods, they are continually enacting policies that are more destructive than any missile launched by Iran. Be it fiat money, bailouts, illegal immigration, intervention, trillions of dollar of debt, they are damning our future children and grandchildren.

We Americans must view the DC political elite as the terrorists they really are.

Rachel| 1.7.09 @ 4:29AM

I grew up in S.W Detroit, close to Dearborn which has the largest Arabic community in the US. I never felt threatened nor hated by these men and women. I never felt like they wanted to kill me. They wanted to live their lives and make money. they wanted to other things to me because they were brought up believing that a godly woman should cover their heads and bodies, which I did not. But they always took no for an answer. I don't hate Arabic people. I look at the pictures of all those people that have been maimed and killed by the Israeli's and understand that we will sit back and allow this to happen because we are allies with Israel and allow a new generation of suicide bomber to form.
All I have to say is if it was me, I would do whatever it took to try and get revenge for my loved ones.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 4:30AM

You know what impressed me, Rachel? The fact that I didn't have to look at more of those piteous burning figures, Americans like you and me, hurling themselves from that hellish inferno again. Or to no longer have to fight to keep the haunting visions of those beautiful, young and brave firefighters out of my head anymore. Yeah, I'm damned grateful that I didn't see my country attacked by mongrels again. And why the hell shouldn't I be grateful for these things? We are so friggin' spoiled in this country--so ungrateful to God. But I know our time is coming and it breaks my heart. So sue me for the fact that I give a damn.

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 4:31AM

Wow, I'm even misspelling my name now. ;)

Time for this boy to go to bed.

Good night everyone.

Rachel| 1.7.09 @ 4:37AM

John, I don't see it happening. We Americans went and voted back everyone that voted for the bailout even though the majority of Americans called and complained and said NO. and meanwhile they make the auto companies that employ millions jump through hoops that the banks didn't have too. They know what side of their plate has the gravy.
The American people don't vote in our politicians, Money does. and diebold.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 4:39AM

Rachel, both of my parents were Ohio farm kids who moved to So. California. There are seven of us kids. My children have grown up with all kinds of kids, Hispanic, Black, and Asian. All good people. My son, James', best friend is Muslim--he's a great kid, but there are real differences, too. It's a cultural thing. The mideast conflict is age-old and I certainly don't blame it just on the Jewish people. It's so ancient that it confounds everyone. I don't see a solution, do you? It's Biblical.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 4:41AM

I won't give the unions a pass.

Rachel| 1.7.09 @ 4:41AM

Ruth, you need to research more on how the heroes are being treated that went into that hellhole looking for their friends, loved ones and fellow Americans.
The firefighters that survived and hunted for the lost are being denied care that they need due to inhaling toxic dust from the twin towers.

You need to keep those pictures in your head because they are still depending on us to get them the help that they deserve.

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 4:43AM

I should be going to bed but this conversation interests me too much. Hurray for dumb decisions. ^_^

Anyways Rachel, I totally understand your frustration with the outcome of bailout. But the very fact that the will of the people are ignored time and time again by our politicians... I think it's fertile ground for growth.

We must look at the amazing progress our movement has made. These days Ron Paul is invited on Fox News, the station that once accused him of taking marching orders from al-Qaeda, and now people like Neal Cavuto are listening to what he has to say on bailouts.

Yes our "democratic" system is fraudulent. But things are becoming so bad that it's becoming more and more obvious to our countrymen. Now is the time to rally our fellow Americans into resisting the federal government's agenda and take back our country.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 4:44AM

Erik, you are a blowhard.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 4:46AM

John, you guys will be gracious with the liberals? Thanks a whole hell of a lot. That's going to help bring us together. Rachel is more liberal than I.

Rachel| 1.7.09 @ 4:46AM

It's so ancient that it confounds everyone. I don't see a solution, do you? It's Biblical.

It is not the Israel that the bible talks about. it is a hijacked platform to get bible thumping people to close their eyes and say it's been written so I must obey. and if it is the same Israel, why do we support a country that killed Jesus?

Why don't anyone ever read the red writing in the bible? Jesus is about loving your neighbor's, not killing them.

Rachel| 1.7.09 @ 4:48AM

LOL @ Ruth yeah okay.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 4:49AM

I am aware of that, Rachel, and I don't like it. Don't presume my ignorance, it's irritating. Is that Bush's fault too? He's just one person, he's not God.

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 4:51AM

Ruth, like I said, there's good liberals out there who aren't socialist drones. They genuinely believe in both America and big government, which is a dangerous mistake, but there is hope for them. We can't afford to alienate everyone who isn't with us on everything. And who knows, if we treat them like human beings, they start seeing things from our point of view. ;)

And Rachel, it's true that Jesus talks about love, but nowhere in the New Testament does he endorse total pacifism. The New Testament portrays images of Jesus armed with a sword, and I believe that God approves of those who defend their country and its right to exist.

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 4:53AM

Oh, and Israel did not kill Jesus, the Roman authorities killed Jesus. ;)

Rachel| 1.7.09 @ 4:54AM

John, I still have my Ron Paul bumper stickers on my truck, they will be there until it goes to the crusher. I get people all the time that come up to me and say if he would have been on the ballot I would have voted for him. A lot of them really hate Sarah Palin, no matter what the media tried to convince otherwise.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 4:54AM

Did you know that Koran means submission? I'm not real thrilled with the way they treat their women, either. Regarding the prison camps: they can only kill me once.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 4:57AM

John, I'm not liberalphobic. You know I have six brothers and sisters--conservatives are in the minority. Makes for lovely holiday get-togethers. Yes it does.

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 4:57AM

Rachel, I lost my Ron Paul buttons but I might get new ones just to grab peoples' attention.

I really sense that this is America's true chance at restoration and redemption. We must remember that during the dark days ahead.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 5:00AM

Well, John, if the future tete a tetes are as harmonious as this one tonight I'm going to wear total body armor.

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 5:00AM

Ruth, my step-mom and her entire family are all hardcore liberal democrats. But being that she's had to deal with rightwingers such as myself and my father, she's realized that we're not so bad after all. And sometimes I get her to agree with me on certain things.

Now is the time to reach out to more moderate liberals and bring them into conservatism. We probably wont get even a 50% success rate, but the more people we can help pull from the delusions of leftism the better. :)

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 5:04AM

"Well, John, if the future tete a tetes are as harmonious as this one tonight I'm going to wear total body armor. "

Hahahaha!

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 5:04AM

John, how can we reach out to liberals after the scalding that took place tonight? I'd like to fire on more than a few of those Ron Paul posters. I think we have to mend our fences first. I didn't really know there was this much hostility. I didn't have a dog in the hunt in 2008. I liked Sarah but no one else.

Mark| 1.7.09 @ 5:05AM

I wish Ron Paul was my Dad. The Israeli's are as homicidal as Hamas; if not more.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 5:06AM

You laugh, but I was pissed! Why didn't you stick up for me?

JD| 1.7.09 @ 5:06AM

First, I didnt hear what I thought was "lashing out". Second "a few small missles", yes. Compare the homemade weapons to Israels nukes. No matter what you want to call them, they ARE small compared to the explosive power and possible casualty count of Israels nukes. Do you deny that?

"antagonized the Muslim/Arab world more than ever before and unfortunately we'll suffer the consequences from this."

Well, do you suppose the arabs are on Israels side? No. Well, then do you suppose the arabs think USA is not involved? No. Well then, do you suppose the arabs like the worlds superpower being on the team of the country going after who they sympathize with? No. So his statement is accurate, and I find it strange anyone could disagree. Please, tell me where in there , you answered with a YES.

"consequences" confuses you? Take a guess genius. What do insane Muslim fanatics do when they have a cause, that even the non insane fanatics believe - that the worlds superpower is all up in their shit. Are fucking extremist attacks against US interests NOT consequences?

As for reference to Pauls comments on what the 911 commission report, and our own CIA said, yes, BLOWBACK was the cause of 911. Look it up, learn, and maybe this true conservative wont seem so fucking nuts to you.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 5:07AM

What the hell? Every nut in the world.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 5:10AM

Good night, all--even you crazy Ron Paul people.

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 5:11AM

Ruth, the fences do need to be mended. But even tonight did not turn out as badly as it could have. Certainly we've buried the hatchet, as an example. And if the RNC plays its cards right, there may very well be reconciliation between the conservative factions.

Once that is done, then we can begin an outreach campaign with moderates and liberals who are disgusted by Obama. But in the meantime we might as well plant the seeds with them. For one thing, I'm going to try to be less confrontational with liberals when I encounter them, and try to establish relations with them. Oh and of course cut back on the name calling and personal attacks, something that is very tempting for me especially considering how triumphant liberals seem these days.

Rachel| 1.7.09 @ 5:11AM

One, I am not into Big government. I am against big government in any way shape or form. I just don't understand why if they are willing to bail out rip off mortgage company's, what the hell is a measly 35 billion for the auto companies. I for one am sick of hearing millions and trillions thrown around like we are talking nickels and dimes. but if anyone gets my hard earned tax dollars it should be companies that employ my hubby and friends.
Our biggest problem though is outsourcing all of our jobs. If America don't work, America don't buy. is it any wonder that the economy is in the crapper?
As far as the bible, I am like Bush and don't believe everything in it is literal. in fact I believe it is just a propaganda tool for the masses.

But the jews were the ones who wanted him dead because he claimed to be the messiah. ( or so the story goes) and they don't believe the messiah has arrived yet.

Jerusel| 1.7.09 @ 5:13AM

The other night I was having a conversation with a fella at the bar, and to my amazement he was logically criticizing Ron Paul’s positions. We had a very substantive debate and both of us had to make concessions due to previously flawed logic and inaccurate historical context. Just as the bartender was handing us our tab, my dog jumped up on my bed and licked my ear! Ick!

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 5:14AM

Rachel, I'll break it to you gently, Christ was a Jew. Not everything in the Bible is literal--but there's enough in there that rings true to give me the creeps.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 5:15AM

Yeah, but I felt the hatchet was buried in my back.

JD| 1.7.09 @ 5:17AM

We spend too much on Israel. We spend too much on any country we send a penny to. We should not be in the business of forcefully stealing from citizens for anything, let alone stealing to hand out to foreign governments. Think about it a moment. You think welfare is bad, this is welfare on a massive, more corrupt scale, because enemies of governments we fund are our enemies.

Would you voluntarily fund a foreign country's government? Feel free. But its not right to force us all into washingtons arrangements with what are most likely highly corrupt officials.

It drives me nuts seeing so called conservatives backing policy democrats were known for - big debt, big govt expansion, big intervention, military adventures, social program expansion and socialist bailouts.... No wonder Pauls views are so foreign to you.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 5:18AM

Jerusel, you had a dream of a hot guy and you in a bar and you were discussing Ron Paul? I'm so sorry to hear that.

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 5:18AM

Rachel, I understand your feelings. However I oppose the autobailout as fiercely as the mortgage bailout because even though the autoindustry employs people like your husband and friends, in the end, a bailout is destroying the American industry by promoting failure on the part of the corporate leadership. By nationalizing our autoindustry, we were damning it to perpetual failure as it will no longer be able to compete with German and Japanese cars.

And as for the Jews and the crucifixition, only a handful of Jews were present for Jesus' trial and they were mostly brainwashed by the pharisees who viewed Jesus as a threat to their power. It was not a Jewish conspiracy to kill Jesus, it was a combined pharisee/roman plot.

Gareth| 1.7.09 @ 5:19AM

This whole articles thinking could be summed up with the idea "We're in a hole, its a lot of effort to climb out so lets keep on digging".

Ron Paul on the other hand would not have dug the US (and dragged the UK etc) into that hole.

There is nowhere that he supports Hamas, that's just bull implied by the author of this article since in their thinking unless you are talking about what they want you to say on a subject "Hate hamas" they smear you, freedom of speech involves talking about the whole problem properly even if it is a difficult subject, not miming along with whoever is in power.

I wish in the UK we had someone with the stature of Ron Paul, he has not a hope in hell of getting into office short of a world wide disaster it seems since the people are sucking up the same old rubbish the media pump out day after day, but at least he can save a few people.

Daniel S.| 1.7.09 @ 5:20AM

You're a moron. It was Osama bin Laden who said the U.S. bombing Iraq in the 1990s and other U.S. intervention in the middle east was his motivation for 9/11. Ron Paul was just quoting him. Sheesh, go learn history and current events before you start criticizing the few good Republicans/Conservatives we have left.

And by the way, in that video, Ron Paul said his position was that we stay out of the conflict and not take sides, not that it was all Israel's fault. But one has to wonder, despite all their missiles, I'm not aware of anyone dying from Hamas in this crisis, yet Israels blown well over 500 people to bits, with at least half women and children, and nearly all of them civilians. Keep in mind that Israel gets a lot of their weapons and support from us, and it's no wonder why the Arab world hates us. We're supplying and supporting the country that is killing their civilians. Not to mention out military intervention in their countries, on land they consider holy.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 5:20AM

Cram it, JD, who said I liked Bush's BS? Get off your high horse, dude, who the hell are you?

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 5:20AM

Ruth, why do you feel the hatchet was buried in your back?

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 5:27AM

May be if you'd been sitting in my chair you would understand, John. It wasn't fun--not real happy right now. You guys treated me like the enemy and I didn't even know we were in a fight. That sucked big time.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 5:28AM

Actually, not in my back, I was just too uncomfortable with the other visual.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 5:32AM

Daniel, there was one HAMAS leader whose headless body was blown out of his 5 story home. His 4 wives and 10 children were killed also. He elected to keep his whole family in that building even though Israel warned him about the bombing the night before. You talk about monsters?

John McNeill| 1.7.09 @ 5:33AM

This thread was complex. There was a lot of misunderstanding on both sides.

Ruth, I'm sorry if you feel like crap. I never intended to make you feel that way, nor do I think others had malicious intent. Many of us are just trigger-happy I suppose. We see someone say trash about our man, and we're ready to rumble.

I humbly request that my fellow Ron Paul supporters ease off on the attacks; a lot of us made excellent posts and I think we've sent the message loud and clear to those who try to distort Ron Paul's words.

Ruth, I wish you the best, and I hope we can talk more in the future. :)

Mr Sideburns| 1.7.09 @ 5:35AM

Am I the only one who sees the hypocracy of claiming the stance of small government/ "government is the problem", yet proudly proclaiming your support for the expansion of government into the globe?

Every day Sean Hannity plays the same clip of Reagan saying, "government is the problem", yet here you have a guy saying, "government is the problem" when it comes to foreign affairs, and all of the alleged supporters of small government label him to be anti-American and unpatriotic.

Since when did taking the small government/ "government is the problem" stance become anti-American?

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 5:36AM

I don't feel like crap, John. You guys don't have that kind of power. Take care, you and I have no beef. I am wary of some Ron Paul people now, though.

Richard| 1.7.09 @ 5:51AM

Ron Paul has condemned Hamas for launching rockets on many occasions.
Ron Paul is an AMERICAN politician, not an Israeli one. He is talking about AMERICAN policy toward Israel. He believes we Americans owe Israel nothing, and I agree. He believes we Americans owe England and Germany, the homelands of my ancestors, nothing. I agree. If that makes me a bigot, so be it.

Andrew| 1.7.09 @ 5:51AM

I agree with Ron Paul, and anyone that has ever read what the founders said about foreign policy would as well. No entangling alliances or meddling in the affairs of others...

Vaultenblogger| 1.7.09 @ 6:04AM

Not only is Mr. Paul terribly wrong on foreign policy, he's also a wee bit confused. At the 5:20-ish mark, he refers to "the pretense that the war has ended in Iran." I didn't know we'd started one. Not that I object, mind you, I personally would like very much to be in a war with Iran, but I'm surprised that the Bircheresque crank approves.

NOMOREWAR_FORISRAEL| 1.7.09 @ 6:25AM

Israel again at the center of Al-Qaeda's grievance against the West:

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/01/06/monitor/entry4702522.shtml

US Support for Israel's brutal oppression of the Palestinians PRIMARY MOTIVATION for tragic attacks on the World Trade Center in 1993 and on 9/11 (look up 'Israel as a terrorist's motivation' in the index of James Bamford's 'A Pretext for War' book):

http://www.itszone.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=39590

What Motivated the 9/11 Hijackers?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1bm2GPoFfg&feature=channel

"Sit Down!" The Power to Silence the Truth about 9/11 Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7EB1FxENxQ&feature=channel

9/11 and Wrong Policy, what the 9/11 Commission Report did to us. Tell politicians to stop making a mockery of 9/11 and putting our lives at risk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SB4V1sDjyI&annotation_id=annotation_625894&feature=iv

Additional at http://NEOCONZIONISTTHREAT.COM

Kyle keeton| 1.7.09 @ 6:48AM

Seems a lot of people here do not like the truth.

Ron Paul speaks it like it is!

Sad!

Kyle

William R| 1.7.09 @ 7:02AM

I suspect this is the longest thread in the history of the American Spectator Blog. And for good reason. NeoCon Phillip Klein is smearing Ron Paul. "Remember that this comes from the man who argued that U.S. bombing of Iraq during the 1990s was the cause of 9/11. "

Well the bipartisan 9/11 report said one of the reasons we were attacked on 9/11 was due to our bombing Iraq. Our own CIA told us the same thing. In fact Michael Scheuer the CIAs top Osama Bin Laden expert for 8 years said the same thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAt6Pf7jZjA

The job of people like Klein is to smear anyone that doesn't think Israel is the 51st State. Neocons have all but destroyed the GOP and Conservatism.

Rob| 1.7.09 @ 7:08AM

Ruth,
You have the tact of an illiterate liberal. You keep calling Ron Paul supporters bigots for not wanting to support a war killing brown people. Clearly you are the one who is bigoted.
By your definition, since McCain lost you too are a loser. Maybe you should look-up what your precious Palin said about Ron Paul.

You can get back to your childish name-calling now.

Thanks for letting me post this on "YOUR" site.

Hagbard| 1.7.09 @ 7:31AM

You people need to grow a brain. Ron Paul is correct on Israel.

JCR| 1.7.09 @ 7:42AM

Sarah Palin with Ron Paul, and fast. She will go nowhere with the mainstream Republicans. She needs to embrace the end of the socialo-fascist regime led by the Republicans and the Democrats. McBama won the election and OBush is not taking over from OBush.

ben| 1.7.09 @ 7:55AM

Western civilization is supposed to be characterized by reason and freedom. The Neo-conservative philosophy, most notably in foreign policy, has turned its back on reason and freedom completely. Not one iota of rationality is present in the neo-con philosophy. Not a shred of Liberty is present in any of their beliefs. And when it comes to freedom, they are the ones making the policies to take away our freedoms. Osama bin Laden isn't in our congress passing anti-freedom laws... insane neo-cons and cowardly neo-libs are the ones. If America allows the neo-cons to speak for them and reject reason and freedom... in the words of Ronald Reagan, "there is nowhere else to go" This is freedoms' last stand. In America. Sad.

Mr Sideburns| 1.7.09 @ 7:56AM

How did the Republican party come to embrace the traditionally left-wing foreign policy of preemptive intervention and big-government meddling?

William R| 1.7.09 @ 8:02AM

Ron Paul Enemy of Neo-Conservatism

http://libertymaven.com/2009/01/07/ron-paul-the-enemy-of-neo-conservatism/3927/

Tim| 1.7.09 @ 8:04AM

The conflict in Palestine is something in which the United States should have declared her neutrality long ago. We should heed George Washington's call for avoiding entangling alliances. But then again you all would probably believe the Father of our country was an anti-semite for harboring such a view.

What I don't like is the selective outrage practiced by so many self -styled conservatives. Hamas and Hezbollah are dismissed as terrorist organization with no legitimate grievances yet they resorting to tactics no less brutal than Israelis employed in their war for independence in the late 1940's. How do you think the Israelis convinced the Arabs to leave that area of land which is now Israel? Do you think Jewish terrorist militias like Irgun and the Hagannah just said asked them to leave?

Joe| 1.7.09 @ 8:07AM

Of course Ron Paul is correct.

For those interested in aanalysis of Jewish/Zionist influence on US politics and culture.
http://www.jewishtribalreview.org/

robert| 1.7.09 @ 8:08AM

i see there is alot of sheep here, look at the drs record folks

Andrew| 1.7.09 @ 8:08AM

I can never understand why nobody seems to even care about how much money we spend overseas. I certainly disagree with the neocons and their aggressive foreign policy and in this case on the foreign aid that we send to israel but why is it never even seems to be discussed that we spend like 900 billion dollars every year on foreign policy. Especially considering how much relatively more consideration is given to all of the bailouts and stimulus packages, which at least give the country some return on its investment.

Wilderness| 1.7.09 @ 8:20AM

With flat comments from some, like Ruth, who believe cause we disagree with "her" means 'we hate' to others like, vaultenblogger, who just likes the smell of blood are mere distractions. These debasing non-thought provoking premises truly have no moral foundation. Without something to truly debate in thought only in brute force through the typing pounded upon a keyboard can those that crave destruction get close to the actions their Empire mentalities so desire. It is those blindingly fluttering feelings of total world domination that grows this Empire mentality right here in our own country. We in this country all grew-up into such a lingering mentality and thus must rid it in time, so, can I truly blame the likes of a "Ruth" or a "vaultenblogger" for their unsightly thirst for Empire? This blog by Klein is a clear example therefore of debasement of anything, like debasing the U.S. dollar by printing out of thin air, for these are the only true powers of an Empire; and as this biggest Military Empire the world has ever seen proceeds with troops in over 130 countries the U.S. continues to rally behind what Thomas Jefferson once said... though written constitutions "may be violated in moments of passion or delusion yet they furnish a text to which those who are watchful may again rally and recall the people."
And thus as "we the people" (which includes the federal government for those may need to know) have gone astray from the U.S. Constitution and have performed actions that have been unconstitutional over and over again for decades we find ourselves facing off against the Empire mentality in many various nooks and crannies. One such use of this mentality is debasement that has been operational in this U.S.-British Military Empire, as already briefly mentioned, which anywhere from the U.S. dollar to nonintellectual arguments that focus on more biological distinctions of brute force than ideas and procedures of liberty. To understand the Empire Mentality is to rid ones denial which has been the first step to a sobering up anywhere from drinking alcohol to trying to rid the Empire thinking and mustering the courage of self-reliant, intellectually thoughtful arguments. And that is the difference between debasement and well-founded premises of intellectual dispute. Go Ron Paul!

jimc| 1.7.09 @ 8:33AM

Ruth, any comments on conservative leader Pat Buchanan naming Ron Paul 2008's most honest politician? Ron Paul defines the saying "The truth hurts"

MrLiberty| 1.7.09 @ 8:42AM

I seem to remember that Osama binLaden and the CIA both said that our bombing of Iraq and the mass-murdering sanctions against them were direct motivation behind the 9/11 bombings. What point does Ron Paul have to "argue" when the supposed culprit behind the crime says that he is correct?

Actions have consequences. You may wish to continue to support Israel and everything they are doing to the Palestinians, but there will be consequences.

When FDR set up the blockade against Japan his War secretary told him that his actions were basically an act of war. There were going to be consequences and Pearl Harbor was the result.

As long as you folks continue to believe that nothing the american empire does should ever be criticised, questioned, or retaliated against, all of your chest beating and support of "national defense" will be for nothing. When you are too ignorant or arrogant to ignore the obvious root cause, you can never begin to put corrective or preventive actions into place.

Joe| 1.7.09 @ 8:49AM

@Mr. Liberty-
Pre-WWII actions of the US also included 6 months of covert bombing against Japanese in China-before any declaration of war by the US.

We look behind the curtain and we see that even the 'Day of Infamy' declaration was duplicitous.

Joseph Moroco| 1.7.09 @ 8:51AM

It's a pity the American Spectator has no idea what conservatism means in foreign policy.

Conservatism in foreign policy never means seeking foreign adventures.

It's a loser anyway.

R. M. Lee| 1.7.09 @ 8:57AM

Dr Paul is right on the money. The typical cheerleading for Israel and an aggressive, jingoist foreign policy that spews from the lemmings in the Republican party is a primary reason the GOP has become irrelevant. (The complete abandonment of conservatism doesn't help, either.)

Goodbye, GOP. And good riddance.

Who's looking out for you?| 1.7.09 @ 9:12AM

I look forward to the RNC document they're drafting that names George W. Bush a "socialist." Hopefully they'll include John McCain too.

Doesn't that make all the folks who supported those two radicals socialists too?

Ryan| 1.7.09 @ 9:15AM

There are a few things wrong with your little blog here. This was not a defensive action taken by Israel. They breached the cease fire. In my opinion, I could care less about either sides. They are BOTH guilty of atrocities towards each other. Another thing, Ron Paul mentioned the bombing of Iraq as ONE of the reasons 911 happened. Get your facts straight. If you continue to screw with people by imposing sanctions on them, bombing them, overthrowing their governments, etc., they will eventually hit you back. Human nature buddy. I guess if China came over here and bombed us, installed a communist government, etc., you would just sit back and let it happen, right??

Anti-Semite| 1.7.09 @ 9:17AM

Look, boys, AmSpec is my site and these people are my friends. Who invited you party crashers? Particularly nasty party crashers, I might add. I'm not your enemy; I am an American (like you?) who is worried sick about my country, the country I love so much. Don't vent your fury at me--I' m not the problem. But I sure as hell won't take any crap from you or anyone else who insults me when they don't even know me. Bring it, I don't give a damn.

- Look how this dumb broad has worked herself into a retards frenzy over Paul supporters? Calling them names, and losing her mind over it?Ruthie is just another mind numb Zionist with a keyboard. I would almost bet she is Klein's girlfriend or mom, just protecting her doofus' dumb petseleh!

Poor Ruthie, she must have gotten some bad gefilte fish?!

DaveM| 1.7.09 @ 9:17AM

Forget about the fact that Israel is butchering Palestinian civilians with American weapons while our dual loyalty "necons" salivate and cheer them on...Ruth got called a hurtful name...lol

Ron Paul, the last true American statesman.

CD| 1.7.09 @ 9:19AM

I am a Ron Paul supporter. Ron Paul thinks our tax dollars should subsidize no country and I agree. This Israel Palestinian problem will never be solved because the Palestinians feel occupied. The country Israel was created by Britian and US and the Palestinians were pushed out. Any killing is wrong, but the Israelis have framed the actual war over land into the terms of "terrorism." In today's terms, our founders would be terrorists against the Brits. I am tired of the term terrorism, when truthfully, it's a war. The sad thing is that children and innocents on both sides die and our dollar finances it all. Is Ron Paul really crazy to think we've helped aid or create this fiasco? I don't think so. I pray for peace for both sides.

When our country goes bankrupt, we won't be able to subsidize war. Maybe that's a good thing after all....

ken| 1.7.09 @ 9:21AM

Ron Paul needs to professionalize and modernize his appearance on video, such as the background in his den. Appearances do matter, and he comes off looking a little like Wally George. Not that there's anything wrong with that ...

Anti Ruth| 1.7.09 @ 9:23AM

Allow me to help Ruth here. Folks, her definition of an anti-semite is "someone who Jews hate." There you go Ruth. That should let these racist pigs know where you come from. Please proceed with your inanities.

Kent Probst| 1.7.09 @ 9:30AM

Philip Klein has his facts wrong -- Ron Paul has criticized Hamas. Most of the bloggers on this website are ignorant, neocon warmongers who need to read the U.S. Constitution, because it was written to restrain government. According to Michael Scheuer, the head of the CIA's bin Laden unit, U.S. bombing of Iraq in the 1990s was one of the reasons that terrorists attacked on 9/11. U.S. foreign policy has been reckless and insane for decades.

BC| 1.7.09 @ 9:39AM

Mr Klein wrote: "Remember that this comes from the man who argued that U.S. bombing of Iraq during the 1990s was the cause of 9/11."

I guess it doesn't matter much to you that American policy towards the Iraqi's was cited by Osama bin Laden in his Fatah against the United States, does it? As our economy collapses and the Treasury Dept and Fed usurp vast, discretionary, unchecked powers for themselves, I'm sure you STILL think that "They hate us for our freedom!"

ChrisH| 1.7.09 @ 9:40AM

The point that he didn't condemn Hamas misses what the man is saying: That we shouldn't be supported either side with MONEY or WEAPONS!

Tom| 1.7.09 @ 9:46AM

WOW.....the Spectator just lost any ounce of respect I still had for them. Good job guys. Never reading you again!

Ron Paul! Listen to Ron Paul!

Granny miller| 1.7.09 @ 9:51AM

Poor Philip Klein hasn't a clue does he?
He might want to spit out the Kool -Aid, rinse out his mouth, clean out his ears and plug in his brain.
And a trip to the Border's CURRENT EVENTS aisle might be a good idea too.
He obviously miss more than a couple of classes in World History 101.

Wayne| 1.7.09 @ 9:51AM

Ron Paul actually quoted the 9-1-1 report which stated that the reason for September 11th was due to 10 years of bombing and sanctions to Iraq or what is known as Blowback--which even senior members of the CIA confirmed.

Well, my father who also worked in the intelligence industry stated the same scenarios when talking about the Middle East region. Ron Paul is not a kook and every single day we are reminded how astute he has been in his understanding of both economics and our international dealings. Don't worry my friends, for those of you who think that we can continue world-wide military obligations, the time is near when America collapses economically and thus, we will not have the money to support any more international adventures that has destroyed the reputation of our great nation as a beacon of liberty.

Mr. Obvious| 1.7.09 @ 9:54AM

Reading the comments to me are usually a great joy. However as I read the comments on this story I feel troubled. How can so many people still be under the spell of the Neo-Con Propaganda Machine? I never paid much attention to Ron Paul, that is, until I saw him attacked by the Media repeatedly during his presidential bid. This public tar-and feathering of Mr. Paul was quite shocking to me. Mr. Paul seemed too genuine, mild mannered, and he also made sense. After researching the man I am more convinced than ever that we really screwed up letting this honest man slip through our fingers for president. His statements were outlandish compared to the the rest of the candidates the Media was fawning over. Through this method of discovery, chosen sound bites, questions to other candidates vs. Ron Paul, and the journalists attitudes towards the man from the beginning I just knew there was more to the story. After watching and re watching interviews on the net I noticed more tactics of interrogation and personal attacks than an un-biased media would allow. Furthermore, Mr. Paul speaks truth. Why would the media attack a man that tells the truth? Sounds like the blithering remark of a conspiracy nut, huh? Why? God forbid independent thought. Why does the MEDIA have to steer an agenda? The media weaves sound-bites , commentary and personal thoughts into your brain as if it were independent thought. Duh, now I have an OPINION. Not! Now your a parrot, capable of firing off the same sound-bites as the talking heads. Does that make you feel like a know-it-all? Are you proud to mimic what you have seen? Wake up people, form your own thoughts. Do not base your opinion on readily accessible propaganda-mill productions. Oh, by the way, Ron is out of the race now. So how about doing a little research and quit being an additional propaganda spout. Denial is a bad state to live in. The more incredible story about the press during Ron's campaign is the acts and statements across the networks in a nation that supposedly has a free press. I wish the curtain would fall and the people could see the puppet masters of our press.

Seth| 1.7.09 @ 9:54AM

It's rather quite simple, really. If Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, or John Adams were to run for the office of presidency, in today's American society, they would be shunned for their beliefs and thus their respective platform. It is, in fact, a very unfortunate circumstance.

In the end, it is what I believe to be American arrogance that compels much of the constituency to continue to support the two main political parties, and subsequently endorse the deplorable and otherwise failing policies pushed by each respective political party.

Many Americans ascribe to the belief that their consumption is their great gift to the world. Many Americans believe America is unequivocally right and just in every foreign policy undertaken by our federal government.

Ron Paul is a beacon of hope. I try not ever idolize our rulers, or celebrities, as unconditional support of any person in power is simply misguided. Although, Dr. Paul presents ideas that were systematically lost since Abraham Lincoln committed his atrocities.

I cannot speak for others, and most certainly wish not to, but I presume to believe many of the people posting on this particular blog post agree that Ron Paul embodies a social and political movement that is characterized by true freedom and true liberty, and that is why his followers support him.

Besides, running for political office is easily comparable to running for student body president in grade school. The person who is most popular and promises the most giveaways typically wins.

Also it is important to note that the executive power of the presidency is so large, I often wondered if Ron Paul actually wished or desired to be granted so much power.

Just look at the number of executive orders issued by each president. The number exponentially grows each presidential term, and with this growth, we see more and more American citizens treating presidential candidates and subsequently presidents...as potential monarchs.

Frightening times indeed.

Wayne| 1.7.09 @ 9:58AM

This magazine has lost all respect from me about a year ago. I am a true conservative and am deeply disturbed by many in our media. We are literally being manipulated and lied through hit pieces such the one presented here as they attempt to hit us below the belt with selling more fear than helping people understand the game of international politics that we all play. Many more Conservatives are starting to wake up to this reality that we are being misguided in such a way, that I declare to be treasonous and it's time to the light of truth to shine upon these people and hold them accountable for their actions. Ron Paul's army is growing fast and it's foundation is built by true patriots and members of the US Military who, by the way, financially supported Ron Paul's campaign more than all other campaigns combined. Even members of our military agree...

Frank| 1.7.09 @ 10:00AM

Ruth,

I have been reading over most of the comments, and I wonder, why have you not taken the time to argue against the position's held by Ron Paul and his supporters, instead of simply calling them "freaks," "losers," "haters" and "racists"?

First of all, only a couple or three Ron Paul supporters left bigoted comments. The rest simply expressed support for Ron Paul's opposition to aggressive war. They would probably welcome a legitimate debate with you on these issues, one not involving namecalling.

Ron Paul's supporters realize that he will never be President. You seem to be suggesting that since he lost the presidency, anyone who supports him or his ideas is a "loser." Does this apply to supporters of all the other Republican candidates who failed to win the presidency?

We Ron Paul supporters accept that he is not come close to winning. However, he did receive 5.5 percent and over one million votes in the Republican primaries, which was about five or ten times better than was generally expected even by his supporters at the beginning of his campaign. His campaign was not as well run as it could have been, and he didn't come close to winning the nomination, but he did inspire a lot of people.

That a small percentage of his supporters are bigoted does not say anything about Ron Paul or the vast majority of his supporters.

Also, I have a hard time understanding how opposition to aggressive war makes one a "hater." I oppose the terrorism used by both sides in the Israel- Hamas conflict, as does Ron Paul and the vast majority of his supporters. What is so hateful about opposing violence against women and children?

chad| 1.7.09 @ 10:06AM

ron paul is a wise man. listen to what he has to say.

Josh| 1.7.09 @ 10:18AM

A word to the wise: Do not f**k with Dr. Paul.

Tomás| 1.7.09 @ 10:22AM

I don't even know what to say to people anymore that still believe that Israel is right no matter what they do.

Yes, Hamas has been launching al-Qassam rockets at Israel, they're thugs no one is denying that, but is Israel is even nuttier to engage this weak & crazy of an enemy with such disproportionate violence. More violence only helps the Palestinian extremists, and not so ironically, the Israeli hawks too.

Canaveral Tim| 1.7.09 @ 10:24AM

The only "kooks" are the sheeple with the blinders on that can't get news from anywhere other than the "talking head" shows.

Ron Paul tells the truth. One of the few in Washington that is NOT for sale.

RPenney| 1.7.09 @ 10:27AM

It's a shame that so many people are forming their opinions based on what they believe themselves to be. I am a _______, so I think _______.

I question the judgment of somebody who actually listens to Ron Paul speak in depth about his philosophies and comes up with the conclusion that he is a kook.

It sounds like a lot of echoes from mainstream media whose interest is promoting certain front runner candidates. If people can't recognize the transparent smear job done on him, then I have a bridge to I would like to sell you. It's a beauty.

People want to believe things about our country even when the facts say other wise. Look at the economy. People who were interested in truth and not picking sides could see that the Fed and the government were going to drive us into a wall.

So both party-line democrats and republicans have the 401k records to show for their party-line, hard stance, propaganda swallowing behavior. If you had listened to the likes of kooky Ron Paul, your money would have been shifted to a money market fund before it all hit the fan.

Ron Paul is being marginalized for standing up for the US Constitution. He has the courage to take unpopular stances on issues and history has shown his courage was justified. He has told the truth. Truth is treason in a world of lies.

The facts, if one should choos do do their homework is that the US is not nearly the country the news tells us. We have done many dirty deeds in the name of less than pure interests.

If people consult common sense they have to consider two things:

1. Is there anything strange about the ultra defensive reaction to any one who criticizes an Israeli action?

Person A: You know, I think it is pretty questionable for Israel to ...

Person B: JEW HATER! Anti semite! Who are you to say anything about Israel.

2. What about the Golden Rule? Would America like it if we were occupied by another country or knew that other countries were funding our enemies in order to do us harm? Would we like a Chinese military base in Witchita, Kansas? Would you like it if your neighbor started parking his car in your lawn? We simply do things that we would not accept. We don;t get a pass just because we have better bombs. And if that is our policy than we are no longer the United States of America as it was meant to be.

Just one man's opinion.

Thank you Ron Paul for your support of life, liberty & independent thought.

drawlr| 1.7.09 @ 10:36AM

Ruth says that this is "our site." Who is "our", Ruth? Apparently there is no room for debate in your world.

Milan| 1.7.09 @ 10:36AM

So typical. You cannot say anything directed towards Jews otherwise they cry racism, althought Jews are not a race. Then they say anti-semitism, just because you don't agree with them. This way you can never find out the truth because they won't allow it, because you will then find out all of their secrets. Why aren't journalists allowed in Gaza?

And to Ruth, can you explain to me how many Jews lived in Israel before they kicked out all the Arabs? Can you tell me why Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas in the world? Why can nobody leave there? Jews throw all non-Jews in Gaza including Christians, and from their every tries to escape. There is a trade blockade surrounding Gaza, which doesn't allow them the most basic needs. 80% of the population lives in poverty. But guess what Ruth...

Almost all of the water Israel uses is under Arab lands. That is why they won't allow them to be a country or have peace. Because then Israel would be without water... or actually have to pay for it! That is what we fund here in America. Israel to murder Arabs, and no one here questions it. Everyone else in the world other than GB and USA know the truth.

WendyG| 1.7.09 @ 10:37AM

Just say the words Ron Paul and a kook brigade shows up. These people must have some sort of a list and they call out the troops when the Kook King is mentioned.

Messages sent via tinfoil hats?

>>>A word to the wise: Do not f**k with Dr. Paul.

My my. Or else what?

veritas| 1.7.09 @ 10:42AM

The ignorance of history that I see displayed in the comments here is appalling. Anyone who believes that "Israel" has any legal or moral rights in and on Palestinian land must, on principle, endorse the Anschluss, Chamberlain's pacification of the Third Reich, China's invasion of Tibet, Britain's exploitation of everything in the "Commonwealth", Indonesia's genocide against East Timor, Stalin's annexation of the Balkan states, U.S. genocide against native Americans, Pol Pot's ethnic cleansing of Cambodia, etc., ad infinitum. Have you ever heard of Dar Yassein and what happened there, and in hundreds of other Palestinian hamlets? Have you ever even heard of the Irgun or the Stern Gang? Do you know who they were and where they originated? You either believe in human rights and self-determination or you reject them. There is no moral high ground or honor for those who support Israel. Anyone who wouldn't fight against his own genocide, with rockets or anything else available, has no instinct for survival. Whatever else you might believe about the Palestinians, they are survivors; and Israel will never have peace.

Aaron | 1.7.09 @ 10:44AM

You people are silly! --So, even in this economic crisis, Ron Paul is the kook? When will you people wake up? And come on, even if you disagree with his policy ideas, it's based on a reasoned view of history and crazy concepts like, "Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you." Now that's a kooky idea--I wonder who thought of that?

David Singhiser| 1.7.09 @ 10:48AM

About a year ago a friend of mine told me how anti-semitic Ron Paul was. I was disgusted and went to his web site to see how bad he was. I didn't find any anti-semitism. One of his top supporters of Ron Paul here in Hawai'i is Jewish. We both feel that Israel would be better off not living off US support and then not being allowed to defend herself. Nor should we continue supporting Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia. We would be better off and the Middle East would be better off. Read what he really supports. And cut out the name calling. Non-interventionism is far superior than our irresponsible meddling in the internal affairs of foreign nations.

tomdawg| 1.7.09 @ 10:51AM

Irgun and the Stern Gang: terrorist zionist groups that killed women and children, bombed the King David hotel, etc. M. Begin as well as Rahm Emmanuel's father were members.
If i am wrong...prove it.

WendyG| 1.7.09 @ 10:52AM

Neither Ron Paul nor his supporters have any knowledge of Middle East history. That is obvious.

They spew all the BS about Zionism, neo-cons (Jews) Dar Yassein, all the usual stuff one sees at Jewhating sites.

IN FACT, Egypt backs Israel in the current conflict, as does Jordan, as does Palestinian PM Abbas. Israel generously gave up land it won in a war it didn't start, and has been under constant attack from a terrorist gang called Hamas. A gang that has stolen aid earmarked for Palestinians, but instead has been used for rockets. Hamas is in cahoots with Iran and the Arabs states are terrified.

So as usual, Israel takes command and does what needs to be done.

Sorry folks, but paleo-con raging against Israel is usually veiled anti-semitism.

answer this| 1.7.09 @ 11:00AM

can someone point me to the CNN interviews of any republican candidate beside Ron Paul in the last few weeks (Paul has been on numerous times)?

if relevance is measured by not being mentioned in the mainstream media then you're right; Ron Paul is irrelevant!

RPenney| 1.7.09 @ 11:01AM

Wendy,

Your take on history is pretty subjective. But let's say you are 100% correct, just for argument's sake.

Does that mean the US should be taxing its citizens oppressively in order to intervene in other nation's affairs?

Should we support directly or indirectly violence that is killing so many people that are not involved in the conflict?

Wendy, what is the reason for America to be in this fight?

Why should my money be taken from my paycheck to fund this madness, when have so much madness that needs to be corrected here?

What good comes from this?

And I guess the better question is, what are the interests we are seeking or protecting through our policies?

If you can give any answer other than national security or terrorism, I am sure people would be open to hear your thoughts.

A lot of the kooks here aren't interested in the right vs left and name calling non-sense...we kooks just like to get to the truth.

Please remember, the "kooks" used to be criticized for saying that some day there would be cameras everywhere monitoring behavior...street corners, highways, etc...

Boy were those kooks silly for questioning the motive of government.

Anti-Semite| 1.7.09 @ 11:02AM

There is no peace with Israel, and if you think about it, why would they ever want peace? If they were to have peace in that region, Israel might have to give up territory and acknowledge someone other than themselves exist. No, what they want is war and a ignorant president & a stupid US Congress to back their play in the region, and they rattle that cage for war all the time. It works like a charm, and they are able to stay afloat with the pompousness. Israel is a warlike nation, and they never want peace, so these arguments are cyclical. Ron Paul only asks that the US stay clear of this, and who could see this as kooky or crazy except the staus quo Zionists?

Never a truer statement has been said than the person who stated that anti-Semitism is whoever the Jews hate. We are all racists if we don't kiss Israel's butt.

Ron Paul being a loser? Yes he did, as if being a president is the highest honor?! No, he started a Revolution, which people don't understand is more powerful. This isn't some cult of personality to all you naysayers, and you are afraid. Your darn right we are coming out of the woodwork. You better like it too, because it's going to roll you over!

tomdawg| 1.7.09 @ 11:05AM

WendyG:
Thanks for all your FACTS. You really proved your point with FACTS. Your FACTS about Zionism, Deir Yassein, and Iraq causing 9-11 are all very convincing.
Let me guess, WendyG is a Christian of the Jerry Falwell school who thinks God gave palestine to the Jews forever. Yet Jesus, who was a Jew, said that the Jews who will not accept Him are of their father Satan (John 8).
I am a Christian also, WendyG, just one who reads the Bible and not a Falwell commentary. Oh yes, since I follow a Jewish carpenter named Jesus, I can't really be anti-semitic.

JaylieWoW| 1.7.09 @ 11:06AM

All I can say is I am beginning to truly wish the proverbial "Atlas" WOULD shrug.

Has anyone ever seen the movie "The Patriot". The hero in that movie (considered a "terrorist" by the Brits), was created out of the circumstances in which he found himself. He rose up against the injustices forced upon him. Even the top leader of the British army chastised the officer who killed so maliciously because he KNEW that extreme circumstances, torture and hardship are exactly the kind impetus that can tip the scales of any battle and cause an enemy to find the fortitude necessary to defeat the "invader". Now it seems the more "radical" elements of society are using this very tactic to their advantage and the rest of the world is just playing right into their hands.

Funny, I'll bet all the cheering, bloodthirsty neo-cons here can plainly see this when applied to their own "kind", but fail to see any connection whatsoever on any but their own "kind".

Like it or not, reality IS reality. Wishing things to be any way than the way they are does not change the reality you find yourself in.

People, no matter what religion or physical/spiritual defining factor about them makes them different, have basic needs they must met in order to survive. When you take away the means for basic survival how can you expect people not to revolt against you and your actions? Should they instead just lay down and die? What would you do if you had nothing left to lose?

I don't feel pity for the world, I believe we will get exactly what is coming to us. As once was famously said, when goods don't cross borders, bombs will.

Vincent| 1.7.09 @ 11:06AM

Ron Paul is right and your headline is highly sensational. He's clearly not lashing out at anyone. Has Ron Paul ever "lashed out"? He is a soft spoken man who believes in peace. This article is clearly written by someone who has a Neoconservative, murderous, collectivist, agenda. We should not be puppeteering in the middle east. If Israel wants to take these actions they must also deal with the consequences which will be even more terrorism. Sooner or later they will work to get rid of the hate that is being propagated on both side.

Micah| 1.7.09 @ 11:09AM

After reading all the way through the comments, I am most astounded by the lack of critical thinking - nay, the utter idiocy - that ruth displays. Name-calling is not an acceptable proxy for a solid argument in rational circles - but I suppose thats not the sort of circles you generally participate in.... Perhaps you can salvage a bit of your self-respect if you quickly cobble together a cogent argument against Paul's positions - but remember..... 'anti-semite' is name-calling just as sure as if I offered as my argument that you are a 'dumb b*tch'. Both are irrelevant and purposefully diversionary, seeking to make the point the failings of the opponent rather than the weakness of his or her arguments.

mpolzkill| 1.7.09 @ 11:09AM

@WendyG:

You are cherry-picking the maybe 2% or so of us peddling "Jewish" conspiracy garbage. This is a blatantly dishonest tactic.

You seem to be saying that you are an expert. Please, help me learn more about this. What would you say is the majority opinion of the citizens of those Arab states regarding the attack on Gaza? Who are the officials of Arab states most afraid of?

VoiceOfReason| 1.7.09 @ 11:12AM

We spend so much time fighting each others ideologies and views that we miss the big picture. Why is it when Russians are railed against that nobody call them anti-Christians? When China is disagreed with you are not labeled an anit-buddhist? But disagree with Isreal and you are a jew hater? I think most who claim dislike of "Zionists" are attempting to seperate the Jew's from the rules of Israel. While they may not be politically correct they are at least correct. There are many videos of Isreali citizens who object to this 'invasion'. Just watch YouTube.

Stop reading a local article and watching a 30 minute news broadcast and assume you know all there is to know. Issues are often multi faceted and by watching a particular channel (FoxNews, CNN, ABC, etc) you get a skewed perspective of the issue. Watch mainstream sources, foriegn sources (often found online), independent news, and listen to people actually involved (Multiple sources (YouTUBE, Facebook, Blogs, etc) and become knowledgable. Lack of knowledge is ignorance. If you are not fully informed....well....fill in the blank.

One thing you cannot deny about Ron Paul, whether you love or hate him, is that he has been pin point correct on the US economy. He called this mortgage crisis and economy crash several years ago.

Now, I wonder how many will call me an anti-semite now that I don't toe the exact line of what they feel is correct?

ago| 1.7.09 @ 11:12AM

if somebody killed your family member, you would probably want them put on death row, right? the middle eastern people cant exactly have the usa put on trial and thrown in prison for bombing iraq in the 90s. i dont think it so absurd that they would want to attack us, and logic is on my side. dr paul is correct, our foreign policy does have blowback.

GPW| 1.7.09 @ 11:16AM

Those people who profess to be pro-Israel should consider a healthy dose of "tough love" for her. In fact, that is the position that should be had with all of our brothers and sisters around the world.

Peace, free trade, and entangling alliances with none.

Dr. Paul's message is correct and has been correct for over thirty years. You can hate the man but you cannot hate his message. It is the same message that the founders had and made this country what it is today.

Also, consider that it is only the neo-liberal position that defends the idea that it is acceptable to take from one group (the taxpayers, e.g.) to give to an other (Israel, e.g.). They subsidize welfare and get more of it. They subsidize bad economic decisions and get more of them. Why should it be any different with the notion of subsidizing foreign wars?

Power to the peaceful.

Protector| 1.7.09 @ 11:17AM

Each act of violence raises the stakes, Israel has just gone all in. Many times you lose everything on that gamble. I guess they figure our Liberal Republicans will bail them out with more money, bombs, troops, and propaganda. We need to let this spoiled child of ours stand on his own two feet and learn how to deal with the world.

Don Weso| 1.7.09 @ 11:19AM

With articles like this from the American Spectator, who needs the New York Times or the Washington Post?

Richard Penney| 1.7.09 @ 11:20AM

Well said GPW.

If people could only see that economics is about human action and not money.

You sound like a person who knows Hazlitt's one rule.

Anti-Semite| 1.7.09 @ 11:24AM

Wendy says: "IN FACT, Egypt backs Israel in the current conflict, as does Jordan, as does Palestinian PM Abbas."

- Because they want the philthy lucre Wendy. They understand that the US doesn't clamor for war with them, and they get moola by paying Israel lipservice. And they don't like Israel, or support what they do....they undrstand that nothing can be don to them, because Israel has the better weapons and fire power, plus US backing. Plain and simple!

Wendy says: "Israel generously gave up land it won in a war it didn't start, and has been under constant attack from a terrorist gang called Hamas."

- It gave the Palestinians a crap bag swatch, and not graciously (I suggest you go read or watch video of those nutjob Kibutz settlers.) But more importantly, Israel gave them Gaza (wooopeee), and then bottled it up and starved it with it's strength. Real nice of those devils!

Wendy says: "A gang that has stolen aid earmarked for Palestinians, but instead has been used for rockets. Hamas is in cahoots with Iran and the Arabs states are terrified. "

- Yeah, they are thieves those Hamas folks. I wonder if they learned their thievery from people like Jonathan J .Pollard? Give the hypocrisy a break Wendy!

Wendy laments: "So as usual, Israel takes command and does what needs to be done."

- Excelllant, and when the Palestinians or whomever pushes Israel into the sea, where they belong, we sing the same tune! Remember this high horse that they are on, let's hope that they get pushed off of it real soon!

Wendy opines: "Sorry folks, but paleo-con raging against Israel is usually veiled anti-semitism."

- Yes, we understand you kool aid drinkers believe this. Anyone who disagrees with Israel is anti-semetic, we get it....ad nauseum we get it. Thus my name......I fully understand the childish label thrown anyone who gets it. Can't you Yitshak's just learn something/anything else though, you bore us !

WendyG| 1.7.09 @ 11:25AM

Is it a coincidence that a video of Ron Paul blaming Israel first is posted at AmSpec blog and a crew of supporters of his descend en masse - one proudly named Anti-Semite?

I think not.

I can think of very American pols who would have a poster named Anti-Semite show up to vigorously support and defend him.

'Nuff said.

Kaycee| 1.7.09 @ 11:26AM

Ah yes! The ole 'Some-are-MORE-equal-than- others' routine. And in this case, the Israelis, their sympathizers and/or supporters are certainly more equal in the Middle East, and of course, in Europe and the US. 'Not to mention, #1 on the 'victimhood' status list.

If anyone, like Dr. Paul, dare suggests that the US politicians treat everyone truly the same in that area, and more importantly, mind our own business, oh no, the powerful Israeli lobbies have the equivalent to a 'grand mal' seizure.

I say, keep speaking the truth, Dr. Paul. Maybe sooner or later, people will realize the truth.

Murray Rothbard| 1.7.09 @ 11:30AM

Why are the AmSpec folks worrying still about Ron Paul? He lost and you won. Our new president will continue your American empire, huge deficits and paranoid security state.

Nate| 1.7.09 @ 11:31AM

Neo-liberal Statist tards.

Trader| 1.7.09 @ 11:32AM

Neoconservatives are not much different than the Nazis except that they learned how to lie better, they talk about Conservative issues, but then take part in socialism, aggressive undeclared war, empire, manipulation of the currency, and genocide. Instead of getting rid of Jews , they've learned how to use them as pawns in their chess game all the while speaking of freedom. Freedom cannot exist under the pressure of endless war, lies, secrecy, subversion, and false expansion monetarily and militarily.

RPenney| 1.7.09 @ 11:34AM

Wendy,

Did you answer my questions or is it just more fun to jot down sweeping statements and pick low hanging fruit (ie. Mr. Anti-Semite) ?

Not tough to criticize a person called anti-semite.

By the way, Mr. Paul didn't blame Israel first.
Your interpretation contradicts what was actually said.

There is still time to go borrow some talking points from some mainstream news agencies.

I am sure the kooks would love to be dazzled with your objective arguments in favor of liberty and the best interests of the American people.

mpolzkill| 1.7.09 @ 11:34AM

@WendyG:

That's simple, Wendy, some Jew-haters may have been drawn by the misleading heading, most were drawn merely by Ron Paul's name.

Can you engage in dialogue or will you only continue to use this rather weak tactic?

If you already answered while I was typing, please excuse me:

You seem to be saying that you are an expert. Please, help me learn more about this. What would you say is the majority opinion of the citizens of those Arab states regarding the attack on Gaza? Who are the officials of Arab states most afraid of?

wilderness| 1.7.09 @ 11:38AM

well, of course Wendy can't answer the questions... and the Empire continues debasing all from money, to the Constitution, to premised arguments... all in the name of brute force. step back, relax, don't think you can solve the world's problems and be it's savior and make the world in your human image...lol, but i am speaking to an Empire mentality that wants pure domination...lol Go Ron Paul!

veritas| 1.7.09 @ 11:39AM

WendyG,
Thank you for your remarkable demonstration of historical ignorance, prejudice, bigotry, and for reinforcing my point.
Israel's founders started the war in Palestine in order to short-circuit the UN plan to partition Palestinian territory into three sectors, one Arab, one Christian, one Jewish. Those founders were terrorists, plain and simple. Their successors are also terrorists. Their tactics are terrorist. Their policy is terrorism.
Hamas is a political movement that was legally elected by the Palestinians in Gaza to operate their government; the election was demanded by U.S. and European leaders who believed that another of their puppets (like Abbas) would be elected. But, apparently, the Palestinians are not worthy of the democratic choosing of their leaders, such as George W. Bush demands for any country where outside influences can dictate results.
Calling your critics names is intellectually bankrupt and demonstrates another level of ignorance: Arabs are Semites; an anti-Semite must be anti-Arab more than anti-Jew, because there are many times more Arabs than Jews.
If Hamas is "in cahoots" with Iran, how would you describe the relationship between the U.S. government and Israel? U.S. support in the UN for Israel's outright flouting of more than 60 UN resolutions is surely something less than honorable. The U.S. invaded Iraq in 1991 on the premise that Iraq was in violation of a single UN resolution. This is typical of the double standard that Israel demands in consideration of its actions. That double standard is the reason why the world's populus overwhelmingly opposes U.S. policy in Palestine.
Right is right. Murdering unarmed, defenseless non-combatants is terrorism. Israel is a terrorist state. Absent its support among American Jewry via AIPAC and the ADL, who intimidate the pathetically-unprincipled majority in the U.S. Congress, Israel would be a pariah in the international community, based, not on "anti-Semitism", but on Israel's utter rejection of moral principles and the standards of international law.
When the U.S. economy finally collapses, as it inevitably will, and when U.S. manipulation of the world's economy ends, as it inevitable will, the piper will come for payment, and Israel will pay.

mpolzkill| 1.7.09 @ 11:48AM

That was great, "veritas". Your point about "the pathetically-unprincipled majority in the U.S. Congress" brought to mind something the very principled leftist Glen Greenwald wrote the other day. The mind-bending corruption of our representative system that this situation has brought on, where a majority of Dem citizens loudly oppose Israel's actions yet their "representatives" are mute on the subject.

James Knauff III| 1.7.09 @ 11:48AM

Dr. Paul speaks the truth. One might like it to be otherwise, but, the USA has no business taking sides in this matter and must figure out quickly how to get out of the nation building big brother business and concern itself with matters within our own national boundaries. Thank God for Ron Paul.

Gabe| 1.7.09 @ 11:49AM

Gaza has been under siege since June. This means that free trade of goods by peaceful palestinians is strictly forbidden in the majority of cases. Sure Hamas is bad, just as Ron Paul has pointed out many times, but it is only a political party in gaza...that doesn't mean you can cut off vital goods like baby formula to millions of people not involved with Hamas. Trade restrictions and seige type activities have been regarded as acts of war for millenium! It is a horor that my tax dollars are funding wars between two theocracies...the money would be better spent on tax rebates for Americans.

mpolzkill| 1.7.09 @ 11:51AM

@Gabe:

"If goods can't cross borders, armies will." –Frederic Bastiat

tomdawg| 1.7.09 @ 12:07PM

VERITAS = TRUTH
Wow, what a kickass comment by Veritas.

I say Piss on the Terrorist State currently killing hundreds of children and defending it by saying, "We only bombed those children because Hamas was fireing at us from the schools." Anyone swallowing that is a fool indeed...and foolishly joining itself to evil.

The TRUE ISRAEL OF GOD is the Church (Gal.3)

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 12:10PM

Wendy, these people are representing Ron Paul and I guess they are trying to defend him. Nice way of doing it. Didn't know that much about Paul before--can't stand the guy and his kook followers now. Threatening bigots.

Thomas Morton| 1.7.09 @ 12:11PM

Good Lord, talk about an unprovoked hit piece. Why is AS so frightened of an actual conservative? No, it is NOT in America's interest to continue to finance these skirmishes which inevitably have negative consequences for the average American. Can we please stop serving the special interests, including AIPAC, who have no regard for what's good for America?

Tommy| 1.7.09 @ 12:16PM

Notice how the people who criticize or attack Ron Paul do not have any substantial factual arguments on their sides against him. And, all the people who proclaim Ron Paul as anti-semitic are
lying through their teeth and are actually the very people who bring anti-semitic reactions on themselves.

Ron Paul was the only real conservative and the only real American in the Republican Party primaries. All of his critics only give a damn about the neocons and their politicies of militarism & interventionism, corporatism & inflationism, and religious zealotry & a massive welfare state. In addition, they care more about the interests of Israel above the interests of the United States.

mpolzkill| 1.7.09 @ 12:17PM

Ruth, what would you think of say, a Russian, claiming that the KKK represents all Americans?

Anti Ruth| 1.7.09 @ 12:17PM

Ruthster,

Great comebacks! How do you pull yourself away from the endless hours of cartoon watching to make such insightful comments? We all stand in awe.

In the meantime, the rest of us patriots on this site might want to ask, "Who are these people?" in regard to the neocons and all their fellow travelers. The answer to that simple question will probably tell us all we need to know, even though we know it already.

Washington and Jefferson weep as Ruthie and WendyG(od complex) drive this platform further into disgrace.

Tommy| 1.7.09 @ 12:20PM

The people who bash Ron Paul are the most anti-American group of people you will ever see in this country.

Mr Sideburns| 1.7.09 @ 12:21PM

So Ruth and Wendy, how long have you two been socialists?

Micah| 1.7.09 @ 12:22PM

More of the same, eh Ruth? Is it that you're unable to defend your bombastic remarks because they have no defense, or do you really not understand how logical discourse works?

Allow me to hazzard a guess here as to your educational status..... You graduated from a state high school with little fanfare, and spent two years at a junior college before washing out. You never took logic, or if you did, you detested it and barely passed.

Ruth - You might be right about Paul being wrong and his followers being 'kooks' (whatever that means) or biggots - but noone could arrive at that analysis by reading your sophist tripe. You clearly lack any critical thinking skills, and I pity you, in that you've been so poorly served by the public education system.

wilderness| 1.7.09 @ 12:23PM

again, "Ruth" appears and says nothing, and only offers the unfruit of the spirit that tries to corrupt and leaps from the Empires mouth stamping any opposition, even if such dissent is of quality. But let us consider such souls mired and born into an Empire and know they are subjected to approval of war and debasement from their first breath and it is uphill from then on in our lives. To use tactics of such biological strength even forced into conversation such as "bigots" comes straight from the bowls of the Empire. But maybe something will awake from such a mind and a glimmer of true and honest argument will be thought up in time. Go Ron Paul!

RPenney| 1.7.09 @ 12:24PM

Ruth,

This is for you and Wendy.

Quotes from a kook:

"Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none. "

"Friendship is but another name for an alliance with the follies and the misfortunes of others. Our own share of miseries is sufficient: why enter then as volunteers into those of another? "

This one is custome made for you two -

"Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it. "

Can you name the kook, Ruth? Wendy?

Any answers yet or just more throwing around Hannity talking points and names?

mpolzkill| 1.7.09 @ 12:27PM

@"wilderness":

"[America,] the heart of totalitarianism...the masses; the vast aggregates who are never tortured, flogged, or imprisoned, or humiliated; who instead are cajoled, flattered, stimulated by the rulers; who are nonetheless relentlessly destroyed as human beings, ground down into mere shells of humanity." - Robert Nisbet

tomdawg| 1.7.09 @ 12:29PM

The PROBLEM with the Israel First crowd is that they have duel loyalties.
Answer this: to which country are you more loyal, America or Israel? If you say its close, then you are an UNPATRIOTIC citizen of America, no better than Reverend Right and his ilk. Make up your mind on which country you love and support, America or Israel. And if you put America first, then how can you stomach a so-called friend who puts spys in your government to steal from us? How about the time they bombed an US Navy ship killing American sailors? Just an accident, right?

Lib203| 1.7.09 @ 12:29PM

Israel has no moral authority.

Israel occupies stolen land. It is an outlaw nation.

Troy| 1.7.09 @ 12:32PM

This is hardly worth getting upset over. I like RP on 98% of everything else and that by far outweighs the problems that Israel has. I also consider him to be one of the very few elected officials who is honest.

Berg| 1.7.09 @ 12:37PM

All of the power of this great world is centered in Israel and the jews that come from there. It is our duty as Americans to protect power. We must stand together in this and destroy all those who oppose the motherland. When Obama gets into office and nukes Iran it will be a great day for Israel will thrive once again and our banks will be back to normal.

This Wrong Paul needs to shut his yap. He is the biggest enemy of our global new world order that Obama will reign over and he needs to be stopped. I am glad for the journalists such as Mr. Klein that have been keeping vigilant in our pursuit to discredit this kook and keep his supporters from gaining any real power.

mpolzkill| 1.7.09 @ 12:40PM

@Lib203:

"Israel has no moral authority.

Israel occupies stolen land. It is an outlaw nation."

[See watch this, Ruth, your opposition is not monolithic]:

The same could be said about America, there's just a lot more "Indians" surrounding Israel. Things can't be as clear-cut as you make out. I, for one, sympathize with the impossible situation Israel is in. I can't think of a worse idea than its creation in the history of the world. But it exists now, what the hell can be done? There are no simple answers & I don't hear ANYONE in D.C. proffering solutions of ANY kind right now.

Tommy| 1.7.09 @ 12:40PM

TomDawg -

You are obviously referring to the Israeli aerial attack on the USS Liberty in 1967. Some Israeli fighter pilots publically admitted that they were involved in the attack and said that they were ordered to carry it out under the threat of court-martial from their commanding officer.

Berg -

It is clear that you have no loyalty to the United States, freedom of speech, or to intelligence and facts. You are no different from all of the other people who bash Ron Paul.

mpolzkill| 1.7.09 @ 12:45PM

@Berg:

If you are serious, you need professional help.

If you are joking, you need professional help.

PoliticalWatcher| 1.7.09 @ 12:47PM

The person who wrote this blog is an extremely ignorant man. Where does your loyalty lie? I see you questioned Ron Paul because his loyalty doesnt lie with Israel.
You are nothing but a disinfo agent who is trying to gain sympathy for the terrorist Nazi Zionist State of Israel.
Im not an antisemite but the continuous accusations of antisemitism by crazy Jews and zionists is unacceptable and disgusting. Actually youre pushing more neutral people into the antisemitic camp with your ignorance and hateful conduct. Also the justification of genocide by Jews who supposedly were killed by the Nazis not too long ago is just shocking!
Thanks for making me trust Ron Paul more and realizing clearer what you and your ilk are cooking
ps CNN just broke the News that Israel broke the truce first and fired at the Palestinians in their concentration camp of Gaza

PoliticalWatcher| 1.7.09 @ 12:47PM

The person who wrote this blog is an extremely ignorant man. Where does your loyalty lie? I see you questioned Ron Paul because his loyalty doesnt lie with Israel.
You are nothing but a disinfo agent who is trying to gain sympathy for the terrorist Nazi Zionist State of Israel.
Im not an antisemite but the continuous accusations of antisemitism by crazy Jews and zionists is unacceptable and disgusting. Actually youre pushing more neutral people into the antisemitic camp with your ignorance and hateful conduct. Also the justification of genocide by Jews who supposedly were killed by the Nazis not too long ago is just shocking!
Thanks for making me trust Ron Paul more and realizing clearer what you and your ilk are cooking
ps CNN just broke the News that Israel broke the truce first and fired at the Palestinians in their concentration camp of Gaza

PoliticalWatcher| 1.7.09 @ 12:48PM

sorry for the double post
darn

Kemp| 1.7.09 @ 12:51PM

I have no desire to have my wealth seized via taxation and sent to overseas states in order to supply them with weapons to kill people.

Loretta Rock| 1.7.09 @ 12:54PM

Mr. Klein - I have the utmost esteem for a journalist who presents a summary of information with the direct link (reference) to the original source. I regard this to be very complementry toward your readership. It assumes the audience is not just a passive American Spectator, but one actively engaged in the desemination of subject information.

In addition, you open the door with an open ended question - "what are the "consequences" Congressman Paul has in mind"? Simply press the play button, and Ron Paul himself, will list more then a half a dozen concerns, in less then 7 minutes time.

Nemo me impune lacesset

Publius| 1.7.09 @ 12:55PM

Zionist movement is the worst movement to ever hit this planet. If you ask me the zionist made their beds, and they can lay in it...unassisted by American made weapons and american tax dollars.

WendyG| 1.7.09 @ 1:06PM

>>>ruth | 1.7.09 @ 12:10PM

Wendy, these people are representing Ron Paul and I guess they are trying to defend him. Nice way of doing it. Didn't know that much about Paul before--can't stand the guy and his kook followers now. Threatening bigots.

*****

Let 'em rant Ruth. I've seen it all before. Generally these sorts get kicked off mainstream forums. Or their rants close down forums trying to foster sane conversations.

It is patently clear that criticism of Ron Paul brings out the anti-Israel contingent. In droves.

Then comes the raving against Zionism, the USS Liberty event always is mentioned (but never the USS Cole) and in general, it's angry diatribes against the US - and apologia for Islamofascism. It's an old story on the net.

Even Bob would refreshing now. Where are you Bob?? :)

PoliticalWatcher| 1.7.09 @ 1:07PM

Breaking News: CNN: Israel Broke Cease fire FIRST
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KntmpoRXFX4

WendyG| 1.7.09 @ 1:09PM

I love this one...

PoliticalWatcher | 1.7.09 @ 12:47PM
The person who wrote this blog is an extremely ignorant man. Where does your loyalty lie? I see you questioned Ron Paul because his loyalty doesnt lie with Israel.

*You are nothing but a disinfo agent who is trying to gain sympathy for the terrorist Nazi Zionist State of Israel.

Im not an antisemite but...*

******
Perfect.

Kemp| 1.7.09 @ 1:12PM

"the USS Liberty event always is mentioned (but never the USS Cole)"

The (major) difference in these two events is that one is widely reported and stands as the basis for foreign military intervention into generally Islamic states (i.e. Iraq, Afghanistan), this being the Col bombing of course, while the other is a piece of history that has been purposefully hidden from the mainstream and clearly does not factor into our current foreign policy.

The difference in treatment between similar actions is a reason honest people bring up the USS Liberty in reasonable discussions.

Nancy| 1.7.09 @ 1:13PM

Wendy, if you don't like the term "neoconservative", perhaps you should take it up with Bill Kristol. It was his father, Irving, who invented the term to distinguish themselves from traditional conservatives. However, after the "neocons" infiltrated and took over the conservative movement, they amazingly wanted the name to just go away.

Just FYI... the self-labeled neoconservatives came from the Democratic party and had a particular affinity with Trotsky. But, don't believe me, go check it out yourself. Then, maybe you'll understand why we now have a bunch of people running around calling themselves conservative, who don't have one conservative principle in their whole body.

Tell me, how long has it been since we've heard any of our so-called conservative "leaders" speak about and uphold:
- limited Constitutional government
- personal privacy
- individual liberty
- private property rights
- fiscal responsibility in government
- national DEFENSE (not offense)
- personal responsibility

Do you remember these principles? I do.

Anti-Semite| 1.7.09 @ 1:14PM

Berg writes:
"All of the power of this great world is centered in Israel and the jews that come from there. It is our duty as Americans to protect power."

- Now just think about this moronic notion. We, as Americans need to protect the interest of the worlds most powerful? If they are the world's most powerful, then what could we do to help them? Mind numbing argument!

Berg vomits: "We must stand together in this and destroy all those who oppose the motherland. When Obama gets into office and nukes Iran it will be a great day for Israel will thrive once again and our banks will be back to normal."

- A Nazi couldn't have said it better! Thank you Berg for showing us your mentality as well as all the others Zionist's retardedness! "Motherland"? LMAO! What a joke!

Micah| 1.7.09 @ 1:16PM

Wendy - You apparently took the same educational path as your friend Ruth.....

Why on earth would one mention the Cole in a discussion of the propriety of blind support (financial and rhetorical) of the Jewish state?

I lean toward supporting Israel's right to defend themselves as they see fit - though I have problems with putting people in concentration camps and feigning incredulity when they don't like it and rebel. That being said, I do not support the theft of my income to support the Jewish state in it's designs.

I am not an anti-semite. This is not about a race or a single nation. What it is about is the immorality of taking money from working people of America to subsidize a nation in the middle of an epic skirmish that has gone on for millenia.

If you were herded into a camp with millions of others, and the things you needed to live were in short supply, might you not be a little upset? Might you not vote in a government that has an adversarial stance toward the ones who herded you into the camp? Would you be disuaded from your antagonistic position because a few of the more radical elements decided to lob poorly aimed ordinances at your oppressors?

The best course of action for us is to stop moralizing and get our noses out of their business. Our plate is full, and we're out of money.

PoliticalWatcher| 1.7.09 @ 1:20PM

Wendy. Thanks for proving me right.
So Im antisemitic because I criticized Israel?
Why didnt you finish my comment? because it's ironically true and youve just proved it.
I then said:
"Im not an antisemite but the continuous accusations of antisemitism by crazy Jews and zionists is unacceptable and disgusting. Actually youre pushing more neutral people into the antisemitic camp with your ignorance and hateful conduct. Also the justification of genocide by Jews who supposedly were killed by the Nazis not too long ago is just shocking!
Thanks for making me trust Ron Paul more and realizing clearer what you and your ilk are cooking
ps CNN just broke the News that Israel broke the truce first and fired at the Palestinians in their concentration camp of Gaza "

PoliticalWatcher| 1.7.09 @ 1:24PM

Stop the cyber bullying Wendy & ruth & quit calling anyone who criticizes Israel antisemitic
You should rather be ashamed of the genocide being perpetrated by the Israeli Nazi state
You are very truly disgusting .
Youre really pushing neutral people like myself over to the antisemite camp with your foolishness.
It is true what someone said about Antisemitism isnt those who dislike Jews, rather they are those whom Jews dislike
which is really sad

mpolzkill| 1.7.09 @ 1:25PM

Case in point. Look at Wendy. She was asked perfectly reasonable questions, so she laid low for awhile until she thought the questioner had left, & then continued cherry-picking for any racist or intemperate statements. [Sigh] Do either of you ladies know anyone who frequents the AmSpec that we may argue with?

Berg| 1.7.09 @ 1:27PM

You are all obviously racist jew haters! Obama will round up all of you racists in FEMA camps and make our world a better place. Once The Father is made president all of these bad things will go away with CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN!

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 1:27PM

Wendy, Daphne Kenwood seems sane compared to these losers. I thought the left was full of haters but these people are more venomous by far. They keep claiming that they are not anti-semitic, then they start spewing the most racist garbage I've ever heard. No wonder Ron Paul's campaign was a flop--all you have to do is read some of the hatred espoused by his followers.

mpolzkill| 1.7.09 @ 1:30PM

Ha ha, everytime I criticize someone's public speaking, I am bound to make an error. Just to head off justified ridicule, that should have read:

"you really should get something together if you're going to speak in public"

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 1:30PM

People, the election is over and your guy lost (actually he was never in the game). Go back on your meds or your shock therapy, you'll feel better.

WendyG| 1.7.09 @ 1:30PM

>>>If you were herded into a camp with millions of others, and the things you needed to live were in short supply, might you not be a little upset.

Nobody "herded" the Palestinians into Gaza.

And the reason they don't have the things they need is because Hamas has stolen or hoarded them.

BTW- Egypt closed it's border, refusing entrance to Palestinians? Why? Dirty little secret, nobody wants the Palestinians, who, as Abba Eban said so many years ago, never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

When Israel left Gaza, the Palestinians trashed most of the farms, and other life-sustaining and fund-generating elements Israel had helped build there. Why? Just because Israel had had a hand in it.

Go read up on the Palestinians and Jordan. How Arafat tried to overthrow the King, who begged Israel to help him get rid of Arafat and by default many Palestinians.

The Arabs don't want the Palestinians, but they want Israel to make peace with them! And everything Israel gives or gives up, is met with more violence and more hatred from the Palestinians.

BTW - at pro-Israel rallies in the US all of the protest is directed at Hamas, NOT at the Palestinian people.

While at pro-Hamas rallies, cries of "Jews back to the ovens" are a staple.

It's just so clear what the pro-Hamas gang wants.

dan| 1.7.09 @ 1:31PM

And the truth shall set you free..

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-6604775898578139565

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 1:32PM

Wendy, Alan was posting on this site last night and got so upset he logged off. I hope he's okay. When the circus comes to town you have to laugh at the clowns.

Tommy| 1.7.09 @ 1:34PM

PoliticalWatcher -

As I said earlier, Wendy, Ruth, and others who think like them are the ones who bring anti-semitic reactions on themselves.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 1:35PM

Wendy, don't try to interact with these nutjobs, what's the point? I don't know how they can read their spittle flecked computer screens anyway.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 1:36PM

I've seen trolls before but this is ridiculous.

dan| 1.7.09 @ 1:39PM

I urge you to watch the video I posted above (or click on my name). There are zero anti-semitic overtones, it is completely factual. If you don't have time to watch the whole thing, fast forward to 22:00 and watch at least 4 or 5 minutes.

Adam "Uriel999" M.| 1.7.09 @ 1:39PM

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. First, Israel broke the truce. Second, Israel has placed the Palestinians in the world's largest ghetto in a fashion not seen since Nazi Germany. Also, yes the first gulf war was a part of the reason for 9/11. As was having bases in the Saudi Arabia a holy land to the people of the Islamic Faith. The principle behind this was coined by the CIA and is called "blowback." You apparently have no grasp of the history of the Middle East and its culture. Reagan was correct when he realized that you can't make sense out of it and need to stay far away. BTW, I am of Jewish ancestry and could become an Israeli citizen. This has nothing to do with antisemitism. Oh and speaking of Semitic people, the Arabs are Semitic. The Israeli people do not have a monopoly on the heritage.

WendyG| 1.7.09 @ 1:40PM

Right you are ruth.

Oh well. maybe while they are here they'll donate to the site or buy an Am Spec subscription and learn a little something.

Dr. Paul certainly does have an, ahem, interesting, fan club. :)

Anti-Semite| 1.7.09 @ 1:41PM

Wendy writes:
"Let 'em rant Ruth. I've seen it all before. Generally these sorts get kicked off mainstream forums. Or their rants close down forums trying to foster sane conversations.

- Wendy, who made the first post to this thread? Ummmm, it was Ruthie the Retard!!!

Wendy: "It is patently clear that criticism of Ron Paul brings out the anti-Israel contingent. In droves."

- LOL. Good grief this charge is lame! The whole point of the thread even existing is the Israel issue Wendy, are you really that dumb, that when someone doesn't agree with what your assume, then we shouldn't come out in droves? Really? If that is the case, then why did Klein write the piece? Why do you & Ruthie the Retard defend it? You make your case (a wrongful one), and we challenge and school your stupid notions (the right one). Are you seriously that limited in thought?

Wendy: "Then comes the raving against Zionism, the USS Liberty event always is mentioned (but never the USS Cole) and in general, it's angry diatribes against the US - and apologia for Islamofascism. It's an old story on the net. "

- About as tiring as "Israel has a right to defend itself" (but then clamors for the US to financially support it and defend it in the UN and across the globe...then they aren't too independent!) . Then there is the labels of "anti-Semite" (nevermind that Arabs are Semites as well) and you lob "racist" at anyone who disagree's. You & your arguments Jews, Israel, Zionist & Zionism are old, wrong and retarded!

WendyG| 1.7.09 @ 1:42PM

>>>I've seen trolls before but this is ridiculous.

I think everyone who voted for Ron Paul is here today.

All hundreds of them. :))

Joe Shmoe| 1.7.09 @ 1:42PM

Filtering out all of the emotional mumbo jumbo, can someone please tell me which contributors here have provided logical cause and effect reasons, facts and figures to support their argument?

No need to reply, I know the answer.

If you define "kook" as one who exhibits reason and draws logical conclusions from the facts then I guess I'm a kook! However, if you base your entire argument on how you "feel", about which team you are rooting for, then maybe you should be asking who is the real kook!

Kemp| 1.7.09 @ 1:44PM

"People, the election is over and your guy lost (actually he was never in the game). Go back on your meds or your shock therapy, you'll feel better." - Ruth

"I've seen trolls before but this is ridiculous." - Ruth

Is your second quote speaking of yourself in the first quote?

Is this what passes for rational debate in the Am. Spec. realm?

RPenney| 1.7.09 @ 1:45PM

Wendy,

Have you answered anybody's questions yet? Or are you still repaeting the same thing?

If you are so spot-on when it comes to history, economics and government then you should have no problem tearing down some silly stupid kooks.

One more question for you, Ms. Wendy...

Please tell us how the Cole and the Liberty are relevant to your point?

What is your line of reason?

Pointing out what someone doesn't say is not an argument.

Wendy, I noticed you didn't say you weren't against rounding up all Arab-Americans, Wendy and throwing them into camps and suspending habeas corpus...so therefore you must be support of that, right? See how illogical that is?

What does the Liberty have to do with the Cole?

Are you saying Israel firing on a US ship in events that one could argue looked a lot like a false flag operation... is somehow justified?

I am afraid , Ruth & Wendy, that a long time ago you decided to write your thoughts and beliefs in stone despite any reason or facts. You seem to fear the logical arguments and questions from a group who differs in thought.

Your statements would lead me to believe that you were more interested in passing notes during American History class...especially the founding of our country and the Constitution chapters.

If you were familiar you would understand that most of the people you label kooks are simply supporting the thoughts of people like Jefferson, Madison & Washington.

And that is not George Jefferson and Dolly Madison.

Micah| 1.7.09 @ 1:49PM

Wendy said:

"Nobody "herded" the Palestinians into Gaza.

And the reason they don't have the things they need is because Hamas has stolen or hoarded them.

BTW- Egypt closed it's border, refusing entrance to Palestinians? Why? Dirty little secret, nobody wants the Palestinians, who, as Abba Eban said so many years ago, never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. "
______________________________

Just because a cage is erected around you doesn't make it less restrictive.

As for Hamas 'stealing or hording' the things necessary to sustain life.... on what do you base this assertion? If there any shred of fact you can point to? If the people were free to come and go and conduct commerce, they would have the option of obtaining what they need for themselves!

That Egypt has closed the border should be obviously irrelevant. Since Hitler butchered millions, are Stalin and Mao off the hook for their crimes? Didn't your parents teach you that the sins of others don't mitigte your own transgressions?

I'm not defending the political machinations of the Palestinians or the Israelis. I am simply arguing that we gain nothing and lose a great deal by interjecting ourselves into the situation.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 1:50PM

Wendy, your 'kook' comment really got to them. You must have hit too close to home. Paul got more posts on this thread than votes in 2008.

Rob| 1.7.09 @ 1:50PM

Ruth,
FYI, McCain lost too. People are still supporting Ron Paul's ideals. Too bad that you're too close minded to accept that fact.

Where is all of the post-election support for McCain's idealology? Oops, I forgot, he didn't have any and neither do you. Just keep playing that same old tired red card and watch the Republican Party implode.

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 1:53PM

Wendy, it's a beautiful, warm day outside, I think I'll take a break from these lovely Ron Paul supporters and go for a run. Regards, people, it's been fun.

Adam "Uriel999" M.| 1.7.09 @ 1:54PM

"People, the election is over and your guy lost (actually he was never in the game). Go back on your meds or your shock therapy, you'll feel better." - Ruth

So you can't win with failed reasoning so now you have to appeal to insults, you fail.

RPenney| 1.7.09 @ 1:54PM

Ruth & Wendy,

PLEASE...on your next postplease outline your argument against Ron Paul.

Please outline you supporting arguments why Ron Paul and anyone who agrees witgh anything he says is a kook.

Please provide your defininition of kook.

It would be great if nobody posted until we received your logical arguments in opposition to Ron Paul's stance as outlined in the video provided.

Berg| 1.7.09 @ 1:56PM

I agree with my sisters Ruth and Wendy. You are all racist kooks. Your guy lost, Obama won. Get over it.

mpolzkill| 1.7.09 @ 1:56PM

Ah, Wendy's answering questions! Ok. I would much prefer you answer earlier questions about why American's should be forced to pay for any of this, but let's go with your new points. I've always been more interested in American problems (silly me) so please give me more info on these ME problems you seem to know so much about:

"Nobody 'herded' the Palestinians into Gaza".

What would you call the situation they are in?

"And the reason they don't have the things they need is because Hamas has stolen or hoarded them."

That's the ONLY reason? Why are they not allowed trade with the outside? Why do they need to be given neccessities by the Israelis that Hamas can steal?

"When Israel left Gaza"

This was gratuitous.

"Go read...hatred of the Palestinaians"
"BTW- Egypt closed it's border, refusing entrance....miss an opportunity"

This seems to me a shockingly callous paragraph. Jocularity regarding a tragic & heartrending situation? Pretty ugly, more than a little nauseating.

With the rest of this (& you never answered this earlier question) You do recognize a difference between Arab ruler's opinions & the majority opinion of the Arab ruled, don't you.

And are you saying it's a done deal, a forced Exodus for the Muslims who live in an area known as Palestine is in order? Or it would be if only neighbors from OTHER COUNTRIES would just allow it? I don't understand why the onus is on the neighbors for solutions, instead of on the Israelis. Sounds like such a position could be regarded as racist. Please explain.

UncleSim| 1.7.09 @ 1:57PM

Wow, I didn't know the American Spectator was read almost exclusively by Zionists and Israel worshipers. I guess calling one's nation the children of God is all the evidence you need that their actions are just. Such a name will surely prevent any errors or bureaucratic wrongdoing, and it will even allow them to use the Satanic State to do God's will - isn't the right name wonderful?

As for me and my family, we will serve the God of truth.

dan| 1.7.09 @ 1:58PM

WendyG,

Dr. Paul does have a diverse group supporting him. He actually had over a million votes in the primaries, and took in more fundraising dollars than any other Republican candidate during those elections.

He would have received far more votes, but many people who agreed with him did not vote for him because the media has told us over and over that he didn't have a chance at winning.

I assure you, if you click on my name and watch the film, you will see one of the reasons why Ron Paul was destroyed by the media. There are actually quite a few, and it had everything to do with his ideas and nothing to do with his popularity.

Even the media in Israel gives a more fair review of the Israeli occupation of Palestine than this website. They discuss the illegal settlements that have been setup which web through the west bank creating a grid of control over the water supplies as well as restricting movement for the people of Gaza. It is true that pregnant women get held up at checkpoints and don't make it to the hospital. That is daily life for the millions of people living there, and that is why Ron Paul refers to these as "concentration camps". They control everything that enters and leaves these territories. I don't condone killing innocent people whether they are Israeli or whatever, but that is a natural reaction to being caged up as they are.

Typical actions of our media is calling the killing of 29 Israelis a massacre, but refuse to even acknowledge that the killing of over three dozen innocent Palestinians. You are a part of a white wash, possibly unknowingly, but just know that your viewpoint is unsupported by the facts.

Berg| 1.7.09 @ 1:59PM

"Wendy, it's a beautiful, warm day outside, I think I'll take a break from these lovely Ron Paul supporters and go for a run." -Ruth
That's ok sister Ruth, I'll pick up where you left off and take care of these racists.

Someone's in for a big surprise once The Father becomes our new leader.

Rachel| 1.7.09 @ 2:01PM

LOL....
Anti Ruth | 1.7.09 @ 12:17PM

Ruthster,

Great comebacks! How do you pull yourself away from the endless hours of cartoon watching to make such insightful comments? We all stand in awe.

Is Berg serious? I thought he was being sarcastic. Good to see the revolution in action again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBCKMTo210k

for Wendy and Ruth ^ so you can see how kooky we are.

Jeff | 1.7.09 @ 2:04PM

ISRAEL! ISRAEL! ISRAEL!
I am soo-oo-o tired of about the woes of this tiny little country and the grief it causes to the US!

I wish, like Dr. Paul, we would stop paying monies to all foreign governments and stop equiping them with arms!

Non-interventionism would save the American gov't serious dollars and loads of grief!

Uriel999| 1.7.09 @ 2:05PM

"I agree with my sisters Ruth and Wendy. You are all racist kooks. Your guy lost, Obama won. Get over it."

It is not about Ron Paul, it is about liberty. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the idea?

Tommy| 1.7.09 @ 2:05PM

Ruth & Wendy -
Do everybody a favor: Leave the country. You are the insane people who put Israel and its interests above the interests of the United States. You have no knowledge of history. You have no grasp of the facts. And you have no brains.

RPenney -
Those two hags have no logical arguments. They are just crabby that someone like Ron Paul had the courage to say that it is not our job to protect and subsidize other countries, including Israel.

mike| 1.7.09 @ 2:06PM

All you deep foreign policy thinkers out there need to read the Constitution and the Federalist papers. You'll find your really not as patriotic as you think.

Nexus| 1.7.09 @ 2:06PM

Dr. Paul makes several very valid points. I don't see what Mr. Klein's problem is other than the fact that Dr. Paul does not believe Israel is always right because they are Israel.

Tommy| 1.7.09 @ 2:08PM

Berg is another liberty-hating, interventionism-loving, dirtbag.

Ruth's Lover| 1.7.09 @ 2:09PM

Look, you guys need to lay off of Ruth. Yeah she is pretty much off her rocker, but she has her head straight when it comes to politics because everything she is saying she learned from me.

Just click on my website link. I dare you to challenge my awesome knowledge of politics.

p.s. Ruth, I miss you cute little nutball.

Berg| 1.7.09 @ 2:09PM

Of course I am serious, I found this article from a link on theobamaforums.com and came here to help stop all of you Wrong Paul kooks.

Dan, I watched your video and I am glad to see that you accept the UN as the all mighty power that controls the world. It is this centralization of power that will lead the world to peace. The Obama administration will move us closer to one world government.

You Wrong Paul racists are the antithesis of our new collective and you must all be stopped. I am greatful to all of our media allies in this quest.

Tommy| 1.7.09 @ 2:10PM

Mike -

Exactly. The people who hate a non-interventionist foreign policy would have hated our Founding Fathers, especially Thomas Jefferson and George Washington. The people who are opposed to a non-interventionist foreign policy are traitors to the United States.

Tommy| 1.7.09 @ 2:11PM

Ruth's Lover & Berg -

How is your idol, the 9/11 Ghoul, Rudy Giuliani?

Milan P.| 1.7.09 @ 2:12PM

Ruth and Wendy,

Yours were the first comments on Klein's article and you had already stated your biased and ill-informed opinions of Dr. Paul (rudely and crudely, I might add) before any of Dr. Paul's supporters took exception. Had you offered well-reasoned and civil discourse, likely you would have received more civil responses. However, you must acknowledge that among those who hurled your slander back at you, there are some very clear, well-informed, historically accurate arguments regarding our unconstitutional entanglements in the affairs of other nations. Your name-calling does nothing to give credence to your opinions. It simply makes you look as if you have no defense against those who took the time to represent Dr. Paul with the dignity, rationality, and objectivity he deserves for being the rare man who speaks out against the Constitutional violations that are eroding the future of our children and our country.

dan| 1.7.09 @ 2:13PM

Berg,

Are you completely unaware that it was a UN declaration that made Israel in the first place?

Man, what a hypocrite.

mpolzkill| 1.7.09 @ 2:13PM

Oh, sorry RPenney, I posted right as you were. That is a good idea of yours, but not too likely to happen, eh? You're are not going to get a dialogue.
- - - - - - - - -
There is no way to muzzle the Jew-haters & assorted nuts who try to attach themselves to Dr. Paul. It is damaging & irritating. I for one would like to kindly ask them to shut up with their hare-brained racialist conspiracy garbage & I call on the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of other sane supporters of Dr. Paul to do likewise, whenever the occasion arises.

mpolzkill| 1.7.09 @ 2:18PM

Milan P, you raving kook....haha.

That was excellent, Milan, thanks. Brings this to mind:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhAokoMgSDc&feature=channel_page

Naturally, just like their intellectually bankrupt heroes, these people here have only one card to play.

Berg| 1.7.09 @ 2:21PM

"Berg,

Are you completely unaware that it was a UN declaration that made Israel in the first place?

Man, what a hypocrite. "

Yes, it is the will of the UN and thus it is good. I cannot wait until the US Constitution is dismantled in favor of a compliance with a new world UN Constitution. The more centralized the power, the better a planned world can be. I hope that once our beloved Barack Obama leads us all to an enlightened form of collectivism he will be made the leader of the UN and thus become the first African American leader of the world.

Anyone who would oppose that is obviously a racist.

dan| 1.7.09 @ 2:22PM

As I read through the comments, I see people on one side stating facts and laying out a case, then on the other side I see people talking trash on Ron Paul supporters and "Jew haters".

If i were a rational person, I would take a serious look at the side who is presenting the facts and evidence. mpolzkill, you are only damaging yourself.

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-6604775898578139565

And the truth will set you free..

Wendy's Father| 1.7.09 @ 2:23PM

Wendy,

Your a good girl and you always done like poppa taught you. You keep on lettin' people know what's good for America.

By God, we'll bomb people into democracy one of these days. It's time break some eggs so we can have a national security ommelette.

Wiglaf| 1.7.09 @ 2:29PM

Berg says: "Someone's in for a big surprise once The Father becomes our new leader."

Yeah, you'll be in for a surprise when you discover what an incompetent leader Obama is.

Wiglaf| 1.7.09 @ 2:31PM

Berg,
On second thought, excellent satire!

mpolzkill| 1.7.09 @ 2:31PM

Dan, was that a mistake? How am I damaging myself?

Wait, did you only read one tiny part of one of my comments? There is a THIRD party here as well, you do understand that we are being associated with these few racialist nuts, right?

Joe Shmoe| 1.7.09 @ 2:34PM

Berg,

I finally get it! You are trying to be funny and demonstrate why the NWO people are completely insane! Thanks for helping the liberty cause. You are a true patriot!

"The more centralized the power, the better a planned world can be."

Has anyone here studied psychology? Human nature is a funny thing in that there are aspects of us that will never change. Those who think "control" and a global dictator are the answer obviously don't understand the human condition. Oppression of any sort will not be tolerated for long periods of time without resistance. Forcing ONE view on the world will certainly be oppressive to many groups and will NEVER work.

Again, we need logical, well thought out solutions. Simply taking sides with those whom we look like is not an answer.

And Berg, if you really are serious. All I can say is OMG...

Karl M.| 1.7.09 @ 2:35PM

Shalom Berg
I also got an action Alert to support brother Klein from http://www.theobamaforum.com
Shalom our patriotic brethren Wendy & Ruth
I assure you once the father is sworn in on January 21st Racism & Antisemitism (like criticizing Israel) will be a crime punishable by death
Shalom
Those antisemitic wrongpaul

Berg| 1.7.09 @ 2:35PM

"Yeah, you'll be in for a surprise when you discover what an incompetent leader Obama is."

You'll be surprised to find out that you are in fact a racist.

Robert| 1.7.09 @ 2:36PM

Ron Paul has to be successful if h e can generate the kind of vitriol that Ruth has deluged this comment thread with. It's always a sign of losing control when someone screams up and down about "hatred" and then partakes in exactly that activity. I'd add up the number of name-callings and personal insults I see in her posts, but then again, if they can make jokes about Paul's "hundreds" of voter when in actuality the *11-tearm-Congressman* beat America's Mayor, then it's clear that something as factual as numbers aren't relevant.

Whether Ruth or any of the project-my-hate-onto-them posters on this board or Klein himself care, the bottom line is that Paul is right. And whther Ruth or Klien or anyone else cares or not, his message is waking people up. Paul energized more people politically than any single person I've ever seen. You can flail all you want about his "nutjob" and "kook" supporters, but a lot of us care less about what some obsessed poster says about us than we do about what it will take to fix the world.

In other words, either engage the debate intellectually, or don't complain when other people do it for you.

See? An entire post without one single name-calling dropped. Let's see if you are capable of the same.

Celumnaz| 1.7.09 @ 2:38PM

I used to be like Ruth/WendyG. They had their minds made up For them about many things long before this blog entry showed up (first two comments demonstrate an attempt at perception manipulation in later comments). Please be patient with them, educate them.

History isn't how we've been taught and it leads good people to dehumanize others in their collectivist (maintain relative social status as a function of survival), and passionate ignorance.

Who was Jesus speaking to in John 8:44? What race? Who is this father and what acts reveal his nature?

Karl M.| 1.7.09 @ 2:39PM

Shalom everyone
heres a recent article from a credible Israeli source that antisemitic Islamofacist Mujahideen are trying to reinstate the Gold Standard & are devaluing the dollar from their caves
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/126533
Those filthy scum will pay

Anyone who calls for Gold Standard is now clearly an islamofacist terrorist

G-d Bless Israel

K. Marx

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 2:39PM

okay, back from my job and you kooks are still here? keep the racism going, loosers

Robert| 1.7.09 @ 2:40PM

Oh and Berg,

Very nice, quality parody, but you're laying it on just a touch thick. I hope, anyway. I do admit, the line betwen parody and reality has became razor-thin.

Berg's Brother| 1.7.09 @ 2:43PM

Right on Berg! You know the deal. These folks haven't figured it out yet, but they will.

I am down for one world government. I am hoping that my children's occupations can be chosen at birth and that I can live for the state.

Maybe I can finally get that chip implanted, too. Man, this is just like Orwell said it would be.

Peace under absolute control is worth giving up my individual rights. The elites of the world know what is best for me.

Karl M.| 1.7.09 @ 2:43PM

Shalom Ruth
welcome back comrade
we are ridding the Blogosphere from those antisemitic wrong Paul kooks
hopefully once the father is in office we will find a "Final Solution" for any racist antisemite who criticizes Israel or doesnt like it
G-d Bless Israel & G-d Bless you Ruth

mpolzkill| 1.7.09 @ 2:43PM

Does anyone care to vote for either of my two finalists for "the best non sequiter causing belly-laugh today"? The envelope please......

"p.s. Ruth, I miss you cute little nutball." - Sean Hannity

&

"You'll be surprised to find out that you are in fact a racist. " - Berg

[Thanks for the laughs ,guys.]

Berg| 1.7.09 @ 2:43PM

Karl M, thank you for helping to shine some light on these people. They are so unenlightened that they think I am making some sort of joke.

"Who is this father and what acts reveal his nature?"
The Father will be elected January 21st.

Wiglaf| 1.7.09 @ 2:44PM

I thought I'd check out some of Philip Klein's other work. Here's a previous post:
"Take A Look At These Schmucks...
By Philip Klein on 12.23.08 @ 11:44AM
...and then ask yourself whether they'll ever want to make peace with Israel."

Philip Klein appears to be advocating genocide. Did he get a directive from God for this kind of hateful, dehumanizing, and racist rhetoric? Sure, that man in the picture may be evil, but the above quote was clearly intended to be a broad brush stroke. It seems to me that if you like Philip Klein, you're not offended or perhaps not even opposed to racist thinking.

Philip Klein,
You are a racist.

WendyG| 1.7.09 @ 2:44PM

i think you meant "jog" ruth :) yes it is a beautiful day indeed. too beautiful for these anti-semites to see the light of day, so they stay inside on their computers and hijack our blog.

WendyG| 1.7.09 @ 2:47PM

I didn't that post above. (at 2:44)

It's the children's hour at Am Spec.

Dr. Paul - these are your people!

Berg| 1.7.09 @ 2:47PM

Good one Wendy. I can't believe these jew haters would spend so much energy to waste our time.

anders| 1.7.09 @ 2:48PM

Haha, sweet, neo-cons criticising ron paul, must mean he's pretty close to the truth : ).

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 2:54PM

their 'dear leader' and his numerous appearances on CNN and CNBC is really irrelevant. he should take a not from our dear leader, mccain/palin, and stick the the relevancy of never being mentioned in the MSM or GOP.

Karl M.| 1.7.09 @ 2:54PM

Berg
Those people are so very ignorant and racist antisemitic schmucks.
Its only 2 weeks till the father is inaugurated. Then Once the Obama/Biden domestic civilian force is initiated we will round up anyone who dare say something critical about the Father or Biden or Israel and put them in FEMA camps
those racist crackers will pay for their antisemitism

@WendyG
welcome back Wendy
we are here to support you in your quest to enlighten those ignorant antisemitic fools
the filthy Pilistine goy must be dealt with for the safety and security of Israel
600 are killed in the ghetto so far
G-d Bless Israel
G-d Bless you WendyG & G-d Bless you Berg

SGP| 1.7.09 @ 2:56PM

How insane, that interventionist, big Government types have come to call themselves "Conservative". Do you realize that foreign intervention, and proxy warfare has always been a the hallmark of communism/socialism...not of a capitalist system?! Does it not pain you to think you have more in common with Stalin and Hitler than with the founding fathers or traditional Republicans like Robert Taft? Paul is not the kook here...it is the lot of you old school Roosevelt/Kennedy/Johnson policy worshipping Democrats masquerading as Republicans who are the nuts. For Gods sake you don't even have the sense, or intellectual curiosity to understand what you are, what you believe in, or where that ideology you have come to embrace comes from! No matter what you think of Paul..you are most definately NOT conservatives by any stetch of the imagination.

Wiglaf| 1.7.09 @ 2:56PM

Toni,
"Dear Leader" is a reference to the infamous Kim Jong Il. I appreciate that you despise socialists politicians and desire their irrelevance.

Joe Shmoe| 1.7.09 @ 3:02PM

Ruth, Wendy, Berg, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muHg86Mys7I

I know you disagree with the part about who owns you, obviously, but what else? What part of liberty is so utterly disgusting to you that you run from it to the waiting arms of an ever controlling state?

mpolzkill| 1.7.09 @ 3:02PM

SGP, excellent. During the campaigns, I asked dozens of Repubs a question that they would invariably refuse to answer (usually after a lot of swearing):

"Who is further "left" on the spectrum, JFK, or McCain?"

WendyG| 1.7.09 @ 3:05PM

No, this is really me. these kooks don't know when to quit. they didn't even quit after 1 million primary votes and millions of dollars raised. go be irrelevant somewhere else losers

Berg| 1.7.09 @ 3:07PM

"What part of liberty is so utterly disgusting to you that you run from it to the waiting arms of an ever controlling state?"
The worst part of liberty is the part about no centralized control. Without centralized control you do not get all the good that comes from such a caring government as the one under Barack Obama.

Liberty implies no taxes...without taxes, how do we supply Israel with money and weapons?

The answer...we don't. And thus the support of liberty = hatred for jews.

Wendy's Father| 1.7.09 @ 3:12PM

Wendy,
I am so proud of you. You don't owe them kooks no explanantion. You just keep on talking like I taught you. It don't need no logical argument. You don't need none of that reason. You just keep'a calling em' names...afterall it's like a wise German man once said. If you keep repeating a lie long enough people will think its truth.

There must be some kind of irony there, Wendy Dear.

Well, you keep on with the good word just like your Daddy. People need to understand that what is good for America is good for the world whether they want it or not.

People need to understand that some people only understand force, so we need to speak with missiles, dang it.

Wendy...you make your daddy so proud.

Just remember, when you is argiung...louder equals right.

Kim Jong Il| 1.7.09 @ 3:13PM

Anyway, I'll check out you anti-socialist renegades later. I've got some floral baskets to arrange. Plus I've got all kinds of other work to do. This IS the year of our great revolutionary surge and I must be ready!

Berg| 1.7.09 @ 3:16PM

With all of the negativity on here I just want to bring some positive comments out in the true spirit of Change.
I just want to thank Mr. Klein for his great article. Without this type of journalism that we've had the privelidge of experiencing over the past election cycle we would not have such a great victory for America and all of the world in the election of Barack Obama.
Thank you Mr. Klein. You are a great American.

mpolzkill| 1.7.09 @ 3:17PM

@Berg, Kim Jong Il, fake WendyG, etc:

Unless you're actually a TRIPLE agent; an anti-Paul guy, pretending to be a Paul supporter, absurdly pretending to be an anti-Paul guy (got that? haha), if you really are for Paul, you are not helping. There were dozens of intelligent Paul supporters here posting rational, important points, but now because of a couple racialists & a prankster, our opposition thinks they can claim the high ground. Really irritating , because Wendy spouts racialist filth, but just veils it, probably from herself even. I wish there were a moderator here to toss you, damnit.

Berg| 1.7.09 @ 3:28PM

You only wish that it were so. If you click on the link on my name and see all of the intelligent posts by me (BergBuilder) you will see that I am the biggest Barack Obama supporter that you have ever seen. I cannot wait until January 21st. I already have my room booked to celebrate with all of my other The Obama Forum brothers and sisters.

John Galt| 1.7.09 @ 3:36PM

Why don't you ZIONISTS just move to your sacred country, Israel, and LEAVE THE USA ALONE! We will be fine without you. As a matter of fact, why don't all you dual citizenship foreigners just leave!???! I'm sick of my money going to support the Palestinian Holocaust or any other slaughter for that matter! You neo cons ought to just join the military since you love bloodshed so much, but, you won't, because you're COWARDS! You don't seem to mind sending your children to die for you. You should all be ashamed for all the problems you people are causing in the world. But, you won't be, because you're religious zealots, the same as Muslim extremists...the same as Jewish extremists...ZIONISTS! You people have NO IDEA what freedom is. I wish you'd all just DIE.

Philip Klein| 1.7.09 @ 3:36PM

Wow. This is the most action a peice of mine has ever gotten!

Mike Hideout| 1.7.09 @ 3:37PM

I work for the DOD (Department of Defense) and I am posting this message through a unsecured wireless system outside of someone's home to protect my identity. Ron Paul is greatly admired and supported by many of us within the military. We have spoken quite often about our concerns and consider we consider him our President even above President-elect Obama and will continue to carefully watch Mr. Paul's interviews and work within the US Congress and do what we can to expose the nonsense within our political system and encourage people to take action in voting out the evil elements of our government. Also, it is true that the US government gives more aid to enemies of Israel and plays the role of chief interrupter instead of a nation that bestows the virtues of liberty. The fact we're facing is that our leadership is rotten to the core and we're growing aware that if we cannot restore our Constitutional governance, our nation will crumble and dissolve into factions.

Philip Klein| 1.7.09 @ 3:42PM

I haven't had this kind of action since I turned Japanese while simultaneously being Hannitized by Islamofacist Femi-Nazi's!

Micah| 1.7.09 @ 3:42PM

"our nation will crumble and dissolve into factions"

Sounds like a reversion to the decentralized mean...... A silver lining to the cloudy state of American political life. Let the dissolution commence on my mark.......

Vanya| 1.7.09 @ 3:51PM

To Ruth- First time on this blog, and concerned that, if this is your site, why you conduct yourself with such disgrace. You accuse, defame and respond with disdain, unworthy of your position. You seem to be very fearful of something, and your responses illustrate that you have blind faith not in your "creator", but some type of pseudo-faith. Big question...where will you put your faith and expectations on your leaders when they prove to be traitors or conmen? I have met Ron Paul, and it reminded me of speaking with my grandfather. He has a strong moral compass, uses it to form his opinions, and does not fear the truth..he FACES the truth. Can WE be as brave as he? Your language is worthy of the local bar, Ruth. The labels you are throwing at the RP supporters sounds VERY Liberal to me. It doesn't matter what or who you supported for President, but what DOES matter is that the PUBLIC engage in productive dialog outside of ANY election. If you think your needs, expectations or fears are any different than mine, you're mistaken. Ron Paul had the ONLY real backbone in entire field of (20) ? candidates. We should all be so brave as to see a pile of *&^%, smell a pile of *&^% , and step in a pile of &^%$ and call it *&^^%$ !!! As far as Israel's concerned? I think that the prospect of the Bible's prophecy NOT happening as written has many quaking in their boots, and that's why we see such passion and fervor in this issue. Ron Paul is going on a logical and reasonable path to treat ALL countries the same when it comes to foreign policy. Scarey? Tough noogies.. Can we ascend this tiring and age-old Middle East religious Hatfield-McCoy battle, or will we succumb to our "fate", let it happen as written, and perish ANYWAY, having feared it needlessly? I say QUESTION it. Maybe a new paradigm would actually improve the possibility of a solution in the Middle East. Did you ever consider that the Bible may be prompting us to EVOLVE, knowing the END TIMES cliff is before us, because it's written into the Script(ures)? The anti-Semitic label is controlling, and a form of censorship for those who "question" roles in the Middle East. Ruth, you should demand better behavior from yourself and all who contribute. Thanks.

Kat| 1.7.09 @ 3:53PM

Well, we can see that Ron Paul supporters can crash a web site, but they are now and always will be irrelevant. Malignant losers, too.

Kat| 1.7.09 @ 3:56PM

I hope the American Spectator writes a hit piece on Paul every day until these morons stroke-out.

mpolzkill| 1.7.09 @ 3:57PM

Philip Klein,

"Wow. This is the most action a peice of mine has ever gotten!"

That's why they call what you did in this "piece" agitprop.

"I wonder what 'consequences' he has in mind. Remember that this comes from the man who argued that U.S. bombing of Iraq during the 1990s was the cause of 9/11."

Besides the - I don't know how else to put this - the absurdity of this second sentence: Ron Paul did not argue that bombing Iraq caused 9/11. Suicide bombers CAUSED 9/11. Ron Paul argued that the Islamist extremist criminals who planned & perpetrated it were MOTIVATED by many things, the bombing of Iraq being one of those stated reasons.

Besides that, what are you implying exactly with "what consequences he has in mind"? Are you the follower of some Voodoo religion? You seem to be attributing some kind of "hex power" to Dr. Paul. You're not really that dingy though are you? You're just further polluting the tiny minds of your tiny fan base.

aswer this| 1.7.09 @ 3:58PM

if Ron Paul is irrelevant, i dare not ask what mccain/palin is. where are they blog post on AmSpec? Or their CNN or CNBC interviews? Or topics of national GOP debate?

QED

GPW| 1.7.09 @ 4:00PM

Join the cause of liberty. Read what some of the foremost scholars of liberty and economics have to say about every world issue. Check out the link by clicking on my name.

Power to the peaceful.

Berg| 1.7.09 @ 4:03PM

Welcome aboard Kat, glad to have you on our side.

These Wrong Paul kooks need to be silenced like they were in the election. We must be ever vigilant that they never get a foot-hold lest we lose.

Here's looking forward to a new world government lead by our historic leader Barack Obama!

Micah| 1.7.09 @ 4:04PM

Kat -

It is your opinions that are irrelevant. You are willingly to blindly acquiesce while your leaders curtail your rights, steal your money and stir the hornets nest in the middle east.

Soldiers who follow orders blindly are collectively a force for great evil in the world. Taken individually, they are just cannon fodder.

You offer nothing of substance and simply call names and make pronouncements without the benefit of fact or logical rigor. You are political cannon fodder, but in the aggregate you and your cohorts are a bigger enemy of liberty than 100 years of President Obama. He and his ilk couldn't do what they do without the willing worshipers of empire.

Congratulations.

Confussed| 1.7.09 @ 4:14PM

So what's racist about not wanting to waste taxpayer money on an empire around the world and on foreign aid? Maybe one day we will actually care about our own country.

Kat| 1.7.09 @ 4:14PM

Micah, you are such a predictable rube. Your fatal flaw is that you have no sense of humor.

Micah, you are such a predictable rube. Your fatal flaw is that you and your fellow Paul supporters have no sense of humor. I was just messing with you. Lighten up, dude.

James Haas| 1.7.09 @ 4:20PM

Never AGAIN! Anyone who is critical of bombing the palestinians has to be seriously investigated to determine if they are a dangerous anti-semite. We cannot let slurs and moral equivalency go unchallenged.

We as a nation have always sacrificed much to spread democracy to EEVERY nation, just as we did in Iraq. Sure it has cost some money, but money is not as important as freedom and if we need to fight a few more battles besides Mr Obama and some of Bushes old friends like Mr Gates Then I am perfectly willing to see adraft reinstated. Bush may have been adummy, but his heart was int eh right place and that is why I'm happy to see Obama move forward and help Israel destroy the lslamicists instead of worrying about minor missteps by Bush in his pursuit of Osama bin Laden. If the Wrong Paultards keep polluting hte internet we might need to bring backa new and improved fairness doctrine...this is not the time to be cynically critical of our movement towards national greatness....we can make great strides towards a peaceful world governence if we can eliminate petty unconstructive critics.

mpolzkill| 1.7.09 @ 4:21PM

That's some funny stuff there, Kat. Have you considered hitting the road with that material?

usa sucks| 1.7.09 @ 4:23PM

usa SUCKS the horses ass!!! all the people saying ron paul is a kook arew the same idiots that vote for obama the lying sack of garbage!! americans are DUMB!!!!!!!

Kat| 1.7.09 @ 4:24PM

Sure, mpk, if it's at your expense.

Confussed| 1.7.09 @ 4:26PM

"We as a nation have always sacrificed much to spread democracy to EEVERY nation, just as we did in Iraq. Sure it has cost some money, but money is not as important as freedom and if we need to fight a few more battles besides Mr Obama and some of Bushes old friends like Mr Gates Then I am perfectly willing to see adraft reinstated. Bush may have been adummy, but his heart was int eh right place and that is why I'm happy to see Obama move forward and help Israel destroy the lslamicists instead of worrying about minor missteps by Bush in his pursuit of Osama bin Laden. If the Wrong Paultards keep polluting hte internet we might need to bring backa new and improved fairness doctrine...this is not the time to be cynically critical of our movement towards national greatness....we can make great strides towards a peaceful world governence if we can eliminate petty unconstructive critics. "

Please tell me this was satire. I was laughing the whole time.

paul| 1.7.09 @ 4:29PM

You fools... You must be listening to Hannity! Read something other than the U.S. propaganda and research both sides. Israel is not the victim here. To blindly think so is ignorance at best. The Russia/Georgia/South Ossetia "attack" was not what it appeared either. Don't just believe everything you hear. Dr. Paul made a valid point and only supports the U.S. constitution in our government. To call him names is to spit in the face of liberty. Not the lies and corruption that you all seem to love...

omg| 1.7.09 @ 4:34PM

zionists are evil, go research their agenda and tell me that ron paul is a kook after that, first america is against commies but they vote in a marxist as obama, america is the evil empire and it is collapsing can you say HOORAY?? i can go to hell americans!!!! the criminals and liars have been exposed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this is the greatest time in human history!!! the evil governments and companies of the world are EXPOSED and their reputations are destroyed HOORAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Micah| 1.7.09 @ 4:39PM

Kat -

I'll take what you say at face value.... but what was the joke that I missed. I tend to think I have a reasonably well-developed sense of humor, and might benefit if I could see where I went wrong in discerning your intent. Was calling me a 'predictable rube' also some brand of humor that escapes me?

So what was the point? If it was just a joke, are you a fan of liberty, and you were trying to be ironic? Are you a RP supporter trying to toss out a red herring? Try as I might, I fail to see the humor. A little guidance would be in order.....

I suspect you thought you could toss out the first unfounded pap that seeped into your head without being called to account and looking foolish - but I await the explanation before passing a final judgement. Maybe I'll get a laugh from your 'joke' once you make clear exactly what was humorous.

Mike Hideout| 1.7.09 @ 4:41PM

Mr. Phil Klein - You should research better before producing such a disgusting smear piece and then to have the audacity to express some type of pride in the results. You're obviously not a man of good character and one who has put our nation in a delicate position that may harvest it's eventual downfall. You name will remain on our list of people to watch as pending collapse of America occurs.

two-party zombies| 1.7.09 @ 5:00PM

Responding to ---
Well, we can see that Ron Paul supporters can crash a web site, but they are now and always will be irrelevant. Malignant losers, too.

If supporting Obama, McCain, Bush or any of the other hand-picked politicians is being a winner...and supporting a man whose #1 concern is liberty and the Constitution is being a loser....

Sign me up with the losers!

You statement has demonstrated the problem entirely. Two parties equally forcing collectivism on the people in different ways.

Every 4 years they strut out hand-picked candidates backed by elitist corporatist ( and often global) interests. The media who are business entities highly influenced by these same institutions present the people with their pre-determined "front runners. The party-liners fall in line and believe what they are told and mock those they are told to mock.

It's like when you are dealing with a child. When you want to give them a perception of choice, you offer them limited choices...peas or carrots.
The child doesn't even think about a third choice.

Time to grow up children.

There is no choice. You are being fooled 24/7/365.

GOP & Dems are arguing for the people who are robbing them of wealth and stealing their liberty.

Kat| 1.7.09 @ 5:01PM

Micah, you people care too much, which leads to your overblown demeanor and your over-reaction. You have no enemies on this site and many conservatives are open to your ideas, but when your insult spewing hordes crash a small, harmless website like ours, it just seems like humorous overkill. Way out of proportion. You have not won any converts--but you certainly have made more enemies. Needlessly. Is this the way to grow your movement?

Liberty is serious business| 1.7.09 @ 5:09PM

Response to - Micah, you people care too much, which leads to your overblown demeanor and your over-reaction.

------

Some people take their liberty, rights and the government that is corrupt and incompent seriously, Kat.

Sorry if some people don't look at political headlines reporting mass death like sports headlines.

Hey you losers like that team(candidate)...he didn't get lots of votes from the willfully ignorant masses. he must stink and you are losers. you guys can be fans of that guy trying to protect your rights and liberties.

I am going to get with a winner, you know, the team who just spent trillions of dollars that the tax payers will have to come up with. the team who just prints out money to fund their wars and failings. the team who writes legislation to take away my civil liberties. aaahhhhh....it's good to be with the winning team.

James Haas| 1.7.09 @ 5:13PM

if a political party in Gaza is going to be biggoted against jews then we are just supposed to do nothing?

Obviously we need to kill some of the children in their country or else they will never learn anything! At least Obama and Bush agree on the important issues like this. I am thankful that the ex head of the CIA Robert Gates and companion of Bush 1 & 2 is still playing an important role in our foreign policy. Sure trillion dollar deficits seem big to you and me but taken as a percent of the GDP it isn't a big deal and isn't it worth it to save the world from a complete collapse?! Without goldman sachs, trade sanctions on Gaza and worldwide efforts to fight the war against the poison CO2 gas our children will not have lives worth living.

It is for this reason that ANY means are jsutified in our righteuos causes...I am not in favor of torture, but I do think god was making it easier on us by helping make it easier for Obama to torture people if he really needs to.

Kat| 1.7.09 @ 5:17PM

Liberty, you just made my point for me. Try to convey your beliefs thoughtfully, without snark. You do yourself and your movement a disservice by your smug, hateful approach. You are condemning yourselves to irrelevancy by being so hostile. It's a real turnoff and makes you people look like you're unbalanced. That's all Ruth was trying to say. Lighten up--it will work better for you.

PRORHECY 101| 1.7.09 @ 5:17PM

I have read many of the comments posted here and I cant take it anymore. Many comments do not reflect the subject of the story. A lot of the comments are merely offensive to other comments. While we are bickering at each other the true bad guys laugh and roll on the floor at our stupidity. Do you know who the bad guys are? No you don't and everyone points fingers at each other as we consume ourselves. Please read Rev. 2,v9. The bad guys of today are the same bad guys from the beginning of recorded history. First recorded as Cain-anites, later as Esau-Edomites. Again as merchants of the earth, money changers. The last sentence I will translate as International Banksters. They have one thing in common, they all claim to be something they are not. There are true Jews but they most likely would not know. The term Jew means "one from the tribe of Judah". Perfectly good word. The great problem is that most claimants of being a "Jew" are liars. No they are not from the tribe of Judah at all, but are imposter's. Why would some claim to be from the tribe of Judah if they were not? Again read Rev. 2,v9. Who are they? Remember there are other tribes. Why would imposter's claim to be from this particular tribe? Why not from the tribe of Levi? Maybe Benjamin? Could it be because Judah is the tribe of Kings? Could that get you close to the leadership of nations? What kind of leaders could sell their own people out to the tares set out to destroy them? Better yet, why would they? Well all I can say is glad I am not you. I hope your dollars and power were worth it. Do not be fooled by those who claim to be and are not. Want to find out who "they" are? Read Rev. 2,v9.

WendyG| 1.7.09 @ 5:19PM

>>>Kat | 1.7.09 @ 3:56PM

I hope the American Spectator writes a hit piece on Paul every day until these morons stroke-out.

********
:)

It's amazing. One little piece on Ron Paul and the dregs of humanity show up to rage against the US and Israel.

The Ron Paul fan club sure is bizarre.

Makes me appreciate the posters here who post on a regular basis. A nice group, really.

Micah| 1.7.09 @ 5:19PM

Kat -

Can I hold you responsible for molesting children, since your 'movement' produced the boy-loving congressman Foley? Are you personally to be tagged with frequenting public restrooms in search of sex because Craig shares ideological and party affiliations?

I am responsible for my own actions. I have spewed nothing at no one who was practicing acceptable and civil decorum. You called me names - I have chosen not to respond in kind.

And what if every Paul supporter is an irrepressable 'kook'? Does it make liberty a less appealing ideal? Does it make theft more moral? What would the point be, exactly?

I will happily stand shoulder to shoulder with every so-labelled 'kook' if they are standing there to defend my self-ownership in opposition to the crushing tyranny of the state. I don't have to agree with everyone on everything to be allied in the fight against statism (and the attendant usurpation of liberties) - so long as they recognize the value of liberty, we have a common ground from which to associate.

You, it would seem, value having those you interact with think you normal (not a kook) as a higher ideal than to demand the return of our liberties. That, of course, is your choice, but it leaves me questioning your ability to recognize a kook when you see one.....

Anti-Semite| 1.7.09 @ 5:19PM

I was just going over some older Klein pieces at the American Spectator, and it seems that Ol' Klein has Wendy and Ruth running interference in other areas, which I find quite interesting. Why? Doesn't it seem odd that this Zionist jew boy inflames the board, and then replies to anymore posts, but Ruth and this Wendy douche do? Talk about a case of bag carrying or what I might expect is Klein, Wendy and Ruth the Retard are all one in the same! It really is typical Zionist playbook stuff. Create a boogeyman argument and then attack it! It is cowardly, but do your homework folks, go to other pieces of Klein, and see how the same two dumb broads come to Klein's defense, and he says nary a word. What a intellectual pansy! And typical flimsy Zionist cowardice!

Celumnaz| 1.7.09 @ 5:22PM

"Ron Paul Lashes Out" - Title

Comment #1: ruth | 1.6.09 @ 5:08PM
I never did trust this guy; I just knew he was a horse's butt.

Comment #2: WendyG | 1.6.09 @ 5:16PM
He's a kook.

"insult spewing hordes" - Kat

Pot - Kettle - Black

Communication is a two way street.

Micah| 1.7.09 @ 5:27PM

Anti-semite.....

We may (or may not) agree on the subject of liberty, but you are a dolt at best. More probably, a sock puppet troll designed to give the other (rational) defenders of liberty a black eye.

Am I wrong? Why else would you give yourself the moniker, and proceed to call the author 'Jew Boy'?

You are either not very bright, a sock puppet or engaging in deliberate disinformation. Your point about Wendy and Ruth may be valid, but you ensure that no one will see past the obvious vitriol of you posts. Change your name and learn to act like an adult. To this point, you're an embarrasment to yourself and anyone you take sides with (not that it detracts from the truth or logic of that side, mind you).

Liberty ....| 1.7.09 @ 5:28PM

Kat,

I don't think you understand how you come across either. It's seems like you came in firing smug comments and when there was response you crowned yourself to an officiating role or something.

Your whole demeanor says you think your brand of back-handed humor is okay, but others....not so much. Fact is I laughed at the comments you didn't like and thought your comments came off lie a royal jerk.

I think the point you should come away with is that people have had it with the system and we don't care what Kat thinks about us personally. We care about what the Kats of the world are saying about the most important things our country claims to offer.

There is one statesman left representing the rights of the people. If people think that is a light-hearted type of thing, then be light hearted...just don't tell people how they should think.

That's the government's job.

Liberty| 1.7.09 @ 5:35PM

Wendy,

The governemtn depends on people like you.
By the time you realize what has been stolen it will be too late.

Just remember Wendy - collectivism is slavery.

Please remember your stance 5 years from now.

Kat| 1.7.09 @ 5:44PM

I tried. You Ron Paul people attacked this website; we did not attack you. I am trying to tell you that if you want to grow your movement you must use some social skills. If your goal was to alienate potential sypathizers then you have been successful. Didn't your mothers ever tell you that honey works better than vinegar? It does. Why don't you try a little of it the next time you beat down someone's door?

Aaron Seth| 1.7.09 @ 5:46PM

Ron Paul, the only voice of sanity in Rome-upon-the-Potomac

Kat| 1.7.09 @ 5:48PM

His voice of sanity is not echoed by his supporters. You people have failed him.

Kat| 1.7.09 @ 5:58PM

AntiSemite, your white hood and robes are showing.

Micah| 1.7.09 @ 5:59PM

Kat,

Just how have I 'attacked this site'? Is it because I took umbrage with the original author's position? So now disagreement is a prima facie attack?

I read items in the AS periodically as they strike me as interesting...... but I don't live here everyday. Does that make my opinion less valuable than anyone else's?

I saw that the operators of the site left the comments section open, and I saw no requirements of longevity or orthodoxy qualifications, and I assumed it was okay to make a comment. If I am in error, I apologize profusely, and suggest that the management make their policies clearer.

Liberty| 1.7.09 @ 6:00PM

Kat,

I am saying you must improve your social skills.
I saw a ridiculous smear piece on a man, smearing and immatruity by commenters and reponded in kind.

What the country needs are more people fired up about being scammed day in and out. I am not a follower of any man. Liberty is what is important to me.

You don't seem to grasp your hypocrisy. You not only lack social skills, your whole tone implies that you are some kind of authority and others of differing views need to be more like you.

It's terribly lame.

I don't believe the failure lies with Ron Paul supporters. I believe the failure lies on the party-line followers who cling to hope & change or country first rhetoric.

We will have to just be people who diagree and don't care for one another Kat.

"You people" have failed the country by being good unquestioning followers of the establishment political system.

In years to come, please don;t say nobody saw it coming. We people gave fair warning.

Enjoy your evening.

Kat| 1.7.09 @ 6:07PM

You also shoulder some of that blame, Liberty, because you didn't possess the wisdom to understand the importance of social skills.

Agneaux| 1.7.09 @ 6:10PM

Ron Paul is the voice of sanity crying in the wilderness. If only you had ears to hear...

PoliticalWatcher| 1.7.09 @ 6:11PM

Wow just wow
Kat
are you trying to make me feel guilty for what you believe is the outcome. How about using your own eyes and starting from the beginning. see who was calling who names and who was usind adhominems and childish names.
We didnt attack you?
Whos we Mr Kat? If it was the blogger then youre either blind or just someone who lies for the sake of it
If it was Mr & Mrs Ruth & WendyG then they clearly attacked someone(They now claim they dont know and that weve turned them off) and even ruth said "he never trusted that horse's butt Ron Paul & that he looks crazy.
Go see who was crying antisemitism against anyone who criticized the Innocent Pure State of Israel

Philip Klein| 1.7.09 @ 6:12PM

I now realize how wrong this post was. I am guilty of libel, lies, and sloppy journalism. I will take this post down soon. Please forgive me.

DaveM| 1.7.09 @ 6:13PM

"You have no enemies on this site and many conservatives are open to your ideas, but when your insult spewing hordes crash a small, harmless website like ours, it just seems like humorous overkill. Way out of proportion. You have not won any converts--but you certainly have made more enemies. "

Say the folks who draw the allegation of "anti-semitism" like a switchblade on everyone and anyone who happens to oppose US foreign policy in the Middle East being a mirror image of the Likud.

Out of proportion?

Why have the chutzpah to talk about "proportion" as Israel drops tons of American made munitions on half starved people, armed with Estes rockets and AK's who inhabit a 140 square mile prison camp, and then proceeds to invade them with and armoured division?

Kat| 1.7.09 @ 6:14PM

Micah, some of you posters were civil, but read through the body of the posts; most of the comments were vicious. I understand that there are fringe elements in every movement, but if you're someone who doesn't know much about Ron Paul, that much hostility can be a big turn off.

Kat| 1.7.09 @ 6:18PM

You guys are a bunch of outliers. Wendy and Ruth were right, you are kooks and horses' butts.

PoliticalWatcher| 1.7.09 @ 6:19PM

ah and my question above was ignored by WendyG who also called me an antisemite for asking her to stop calling people antisemites and for questioning Israel

Where do we draw the line. Seriously where do we draw the line?

and btw is bombing a school with 40 children not a genocide. Death toll in the Gaza concentration camp up to 600 Palestinians + women and children
guess who broke the ceasefire first?
Pro-Israeli CNN says so
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KntmpoRXFX4

where do we draw the line

Kim Jong Il| 1.7.09 @ 6:21PM

You all are still a bunch of politically illiterate running dogs and swollen-headed philistines!

Matt| 1.7.09 @ 6:27PM

The real horses butts have been destroying this country. That's why we are where we are, corrupt regimes in washington, illegal foreign wars, torture, loss of rights, etc. The people that allow for the destruction of this country are a lot worse than all the terrorists combined. Get some perspective. The US, like all empires will fail. Its people who ignore the warnings who will hasten the fall. People like Kat deserve it.

Will| 1.7.09 @ 6:30PM

some men you just can't reach

PoliticalWatcher| 1.7.09 @ 6:31PM

Philip you already lost any shred of inegrity you may had or didnt have
you are irrelevant. A disinfo troll who will have no effect on the course of history and will not be remebered because you will remain irrelevant with no accomplishments to be mentioned.
The people who posted here only posted because they rallied behind the only true conservative in the GOP
Heres an Example of Ron Paul's importance other than the tons of interviews he has every week. The candidates running for Chairman of the RNC were all kissing Ron Paul's ass last night at the CSPAN Republican debate because they know what he is and respect what he represents eventhough they are neocons.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pHuSwjXmfk

DaveM| 1.7.09 @ 6:33PM

Piece of advice Kat. Stop defending liars and stop calling men like Ron Paul and the people who support him, "kooks", "bigots" and "anti-semites" for pointing out those lies.

You'll be surprised how much more civil the conversation goes.

Kat| 1.7.09 @ 6:37PM

DaveM, I didn't call Paul a kook, bigot or an anti-semite, I called YOU a kook, bigot and anti-semite. Fool.

PoliticalWatcher| 1.7.09 @ 6:40PM

one last thing
THIS BLOG IS IRRELEVANT
take a look at the comparison
one of Ron Paul's small grassroots websites The Daily Paul and compare it to spectator.org on Alexa
http://www.alexa.com/
This website is irrelevant even in the blogosphere
A news website that cant even compete witha little grassroots website
thats why this greedy.... is salivating over the response to his hitpiece
You get no more traffic from me Phil Klein

John Galt| 1.7.09 @ 6:41PM

Kat is just a pissy little ZIONIST who gets notified through the ZIONIST Megaphone software whenever there is some subject matter to be pounced upon, much like a Kat on a mouse. Problem is "Kat," you're on the back of a hungry WOLF. HUNGRY FOR FREEDOM! You ZIONISTS have done a good job for years by using covert techniques of getting what you want. The public is waking up to the fact that there are too many ZIONISTS in positions of wealth and power. You people don't play fair. You will LOSE the game in the end, God's "chosen," or not. Mark my words. YOU WILL LOSE!!!

Kat| 1.7.09 @ 6:42PM

PW, got your ass kicked didn't you?

John Galt| 1.7.09 @ 6:47PM

There is a difference between ZIONISTS who are non spiritual jews and the poor misguided Christians who support their movement. The spiritual Jews of the world, the REAL JEWS, are crying out against the insanity. NO SPIRITUAL PERSON WANTS WAR!!! No GOD of LOVE wants murder and blood. The ZIONISTS are EVIL incarnate and are everything that is anti spirit...they are materialistic, greedy, conniving, ambitious, power hungry, inhumane....pure EVIL. You must learn to recognize them and stop supporting them. They control banking through the Federal Reserve. They control Hollywood and all major media outlets for propaganda. And now, they control the US gov't for use of force. Only ONE THING standing in their way at this time...the RIGHT to bear arms. That time is running out my friends. WAKE UP to the HELL that is coming, brought to you by ZIONISTS!

DaveM| 1.7.09 @ 6:49PM

Please feel free to point out where I posted a kooky, bigoted or anti-semitic remark Kat.

Thanks for clearing the air.

Indeed in 21 century America those who stray from the party line that Israeli foreign policy and American foreign policy interests are one and the same are "anti-semites".

DavidR| 1.7.09 @ 6:50PM

"Remember that this comes from the man who argued that U.S. bombing of Iraq during the 1990s was the cause of 9/11. " Nice try. What he said was that our foreign policy was the cause for 9/11. And he was correct. You don't think blowback is real? Ask your own beloved CIA if blowback is real. We have been over there bombing them for years. If another country did the same thing to us, you would react the same way-or not. You are what Jesse Ventura calls a chicken hawk, along with all of the other neocons-chicken to go to war, but a hawk to send everyone else's sons and daughters. Keep spreading you misinformation. The sheeple are awaking, and they are not happy. You spout nothing but lies, and I can see right through you. Who do you think put Saddam in power? Who do you think gave OBL millions of dollars? Who do you think has been meddling in foreign affairs of the middle east for decades? Nah, couldn't be the USA, because blowback doesn't exist. Everything we do has consequences. Guess your parents didn't teach you that, did they? Lies, lies, and more lies are what is in your blog.

WendyG| 1.7.09 @ 6:51PM

PoliticalWatcher | 1.7.09 @ 6:40PM

one last thing
THIS BLOG IS IRRELEVANT

****

Apparently not. :)

WendyG| 1.7.09 @ 6:55PM

PoliticalWatcher | 1.7.09 @ 6:19PM

and btw is bombing a school with 40 children not a genocide

*****
Hamas stores bombs and guns in mosques, schools, and hospitals. They PURPOSELY hide their weapons among innocent civilians. So what's Israel to do??

I notice you don't focus on that.

John Galt| 1.7.09 @ 7:07PM

What's up? All you ZIONISTS and big government lovers afraid to tackle my comments??? Call ME what you will, but the truth is coming out and people are waking up. Your reign of terror is soon to be over. BANK on that.

BB| 1.7.09 @ 7:10PM

His argument seems cogent to me. The "consequences" are the US continuing to give $100's of millions of dollars to Israel while getting hundreds of millions of muslims pissed off at our country to the extent that some will fly an airplane into a building full of civilians. Of course to fully analyze somebody's argument and come up with a counterargument other than knee jerk nationalism would probably cause the editors and reporters for this rag to actually earn a paycheck. It's ok though folks. The American Empire is over. We bankrupted ourselves. Congrats!

DaveM| 1.7.09 @ 7:11PM

Wendy hon, I hate to be the one to break the news to you, but blockading an already destitute people is, well, you know, an act of war.

The comparisons here are to put it bluntly, absurd.

Why not just dispense with the formalities and call for the murder of every man woman and child in the Gaza strip?

OR| 1.7.09 @ 7:20PM

It really sickens me how people on here have more of an allegiance towards a state like ISrael than their own country, the USA. Ron Paul makes a very good point, our meddling in the Middle East is pissing off people. How many lives have been destroyed because of our policies? I assure you, that this is the reason, and not because of us being free, that the Muslim majority in the ME detests us. Of course, it isn't the doing of Americans, but our filthy government.

Now, a lot of you are brain washed, yes, but it isn't your faults. You have all been conditioned for the most part of your lives to believe that the fate of a foreign country will actively parallel the fate of this nation. But that is only the case if we are involved ourselves as deeply as we are in the affairs of Israel. Truth is, we only get in the way of any peace process anyway, and we always leave a trail of destruction (Iraq War, cough cough)
And...
Do people here think that Arabs are idiots? They're not schmucks who can't add two and two together and see that our American government has been the result of many conflicts in their worlds.

Look up our replacing of a democratically elected government in Iran with pro American dictatorship 50 years ago, which resulted in thousands of deaths of political dissidents and irreversible social damage.

But, if it isn't reason that will wake you kids up, maybe it will be the sudden shaking of your small worlds when the good ol' US' economy collapses. But even then, you'll probably give open and uncritical ears to the same schmucks who said that 9.11 happened because our women are allowed to show most of their boobies. LOL, this world is truly f** up beyond repair. Oh well, get ready for the dark ages, young westerners, it's going to pay a visit again.

Blow Black is a b****, ain't it?

Down with you collectivists| 1.7.09 @ 7:20PM

Get real - Ron Paul is not against Israel. He is against our meddlesome foreign policy which gives aid and arms to Israel AND to the Middle East. He seeks a policy of non-intervention where we mind our own business and stop policing the entire world. He predicted the economic catastrophe we are facing today and the same types that are scoffing at him now, ridiculed his predictions then. Unless we heed his wisdom, our country is going down for the count and will not have either the spending power or the trust of other nations to extend loans to us to maintain our evil empire. If you are scared of the Muslims now, just think about what will become of us when our nation crumbles as the USSR did under very similar circumstances. Waking up the populace is hopeless if you chumps are any indication of the mindset out there. You call the democrats bleeding hearts, but you guys are bleeding hearts for Israel at the expense of our own interests and our domestic security. Lets put America and our people first by beefing up our borders and our domestic security against invaders and terrorists, halting our financial and military support of ALL other countries, reigning in our overseas expenditures, and concentrate on transparancy and a return to Constitutional law here at home.

wilderness| 1.7.09 @ 7:27PM

And the U.S. funds Hezbollah, the U.S. funds both sides, Pakistan and India too. It's the same old Empire game that's been around for centuries. The divide and conquer tactic, the Democratic/Republican puppets, but I've said so much that takes considerable research by the Empire mentality that only wants it one way, so, A, B, C... might be better. It is quite obvious that the "Wendy's" and "Ruth's" of the world can't think for themselves in such a nimble environment cause they are waiting for the political stump speech written by the Empire to give them new directives.
The Bible, if nobody has noticed, is full of Jews doing bad things. That's why they wanted priests, kings, and judges, all against G-d's Word, but that's too easy. What was difficult and challenging were to listen to the prophets, wise men, elders, and Jesus even in time, but the Jews and Israel are a historical reminder of any people on this earth that don't listen and forget what moral liberty even means anymore unfortunately. Go Ron Paul! Go all liberty minded people! Keep the moral clarity rolling!

Trepiodge| 1.7.09 @ 7:43PM

Israel and the rest of the international community of parasites should stop sucking off the teat of the American taxpayer.

Zionism is NOT patriotism. America is NOT Israel. Our country was not set up to bow to the interests of tribal and/or religious zealots, who have been killing each other FOR CENTURIES. It is NOT in the interests of America to take sides and it is IMMORAL to compel a man to subsidize with his taxes, actions which he disagrees with as immoral, counter-productive, and tyrranical.

No entangling alliances, we should not send our troops nor our wealth around the globe in search of monsters to destroy. Beware the special interests which make up the military-industrial-religious complex.

Muhammed| 1.7.09 @ 7:59PM

Allahu Akbar! As a representative of Islam I want to state right now that the Muslim community fully (but secretly) supports Israel's attacks on the Palestinian people, for it creates such incredible popular support for Hamas and all of our extremist terrorist desires!

Israel is responsible for the electoral success of Hamas! Praise be to Allah!

WendyG| 1.7.09 @ 8:01PM

I cannot figure out how all these characters found their way here today.

Black helicopter with a banner trailing behind??

All this Jew-bashing and hatred of Israel - with a smattering of anti-Americanism as well.

Fortunately they are pretty much sequestered on this thread. :)

Liberty| 1.7.09 @ 8:04PM

Meet Kat. She has social skills and knows better than you. Don't believe it. Just ask her.

Kat | 1.7.09 @ 6:07PM
You also shoulder some of that blame, Liberty, because you didn't possess the wisdom to understand the importance of social skills.

Social skills, eh? I look bad?
Is this the type of social skills I should aspire to?

Kat | 1.7.09 @ 6:42PM
PW, got your ass kicked didn't you?

Kat | 1.7.09 @ 6:37PM
DaveM, I didn't call Paul a kook, bigot or an anti-semite, I called YOU a kook, bigot and anti-semite. Fool.

Kat | 1.7.09 @ 6:18PM
You guys are a bunch of outliers. Wendy and Ruth were right, you are kooks and horses' butts.

You're have made a mockery of your own points.
You conveniently ignore your unrefined behavior then expect it in return.

daddysteve| 1.7.09 @ 8:05PM

Hello JGault, like your comments over at Mish's site.

WendyG| 1.7.09 @ 8:05PM

Muhammed | 1.7.09 @ 7:59PM

Allahu Akbar! As a representative of Islam I want to state right now that the Muslim community fully (but secretly) supports Israel's attacks on the Palestinian people, for it creates such incredible popular support for Hamas and all of our extremist terrorist desire.

******

Hmmmm. Thank you for confirming that extremist terrorist desires are pretty much representative of Islam.

Kinda made my point, didn't you?

American Citizen| 1.7.09 @ 8:14PM

Glad to see you appreciate differing opinion on this website, regulars?

You have called people kooks, blindly accused people of being racists with no facts or reason, you have called people losers.

However, I see that ruth, wendy and others look like they have been posting consistently for over 24 hours - just on this one article.

Interesting that they are easy to throw around names and labels.

You think very highly of yourselves and your unquestioning loyalty to a government and a media who has screwed you royally your entire life.

You made it clear that you will defend ferverntly your intellectual bubbles that you live in.

I can only hope you don't pass your "wisdom" on to any yong people.

American Citizen| 1.7.09 @ 8:20PM

Actually Wendy, I think he was just drawing out your racisim:

"Thank you for confirming that extremist terrorist desires are pretty much representative of Islam. "

Nice that you are holding up a consistent standard seeing as you paint people as racists with a pretty broad brush.

I think the other point you are missing, if you weren;t sorry worried about what side you are on, is that attacks create reaction and blowback.

Blowback is something you dismiss, but it is reality.

When someone has made comments you didn;t like did you ignore them? No.

You have made some less than nice staements in retaliation. That is blowback.

It exists on this comments section, so you know it's going to exist when people are dying.

Is that concept too kooky for you?

Jahfre Fire Eater| 1.7.09 @ 8:23PM

Thank you Philip Klein and American Spectator for helping to promote Ron Paul's message of peace through responsible foreign policy. Keep up the good work even though you don't understand it.

The time of the liberal warmongers is nearing an end in the GOP.
-Jahfre Fire Eater

DaveM| 1.7.09 @ 8:32PM

"anti-Americanism"

Hey Wendy, can you refine that term a bit more for me?

A USMC vet with a father and several uncles who are Army and Navy WW2 vets , a grandfather who was a tool and die maker at Edgewood Arsenal during that same war, a great grandfather who fought for the Confederacy at every major engagement with the Army of Northern Virginia, whose people emigrated from Ireland as indentured servants prior to the American Revolution.

Your kind would probably be waterboarding this guy in Gitmo for his "anti-Americanism"...lol

"Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people. The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and in the degeneracy of manners and of morals engendered by both. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare"....James Madison

wilderness| 1.7.09 @ 8:34PM

Unfortunately some people think the Jews are perfect and will follow a people blindly without understanding what basic morals are... not everybody is perfect. There are good people and bad people and A, B, C... 1, 2, 3... Simple step #1 in this course on how to rid denial and get sober. Go Moral Liberty!

Muhammed| 1.7.09 @ 8:46PM

Okay Im sorry
Im really WendyG trolling as another person and trying to use the fearmongering tactics to spew my racist xenophobic propaganda
Im guilty of racism myself and Im sorry for hurting everybody's feelings
I regret using dirty tactics so that I can get people behind Israel
Im really sorry & I got to go

WendyG| 1.7.09 @ 8:47PM

Im really sorry guys
I feel really shameful for resorting to this disgusting tactic

Kat| 1.7.09 @ 9:40PM

So many Ron Paul folks hate the Jewish people. They are gutless, though, they'd never have the guts to show their racism for black people. I look at the comments of the Haters for Paul on this site and I see white hoods and robes, lots of white hoods and robes.

Lester Hunt| 1.7.09 @ 10:21PM

Ron Paul has been right about the Middle East all along.

Joe Shmoe| 1.7.09 @ 10:24PM

Kat, you've proven yourself to be Troll material over and over again in this thread, trying to incite by name calling. I feel sorry for you.

Unless of course you are paid by AS to troll. At least that would make sense...

Micah| 1.7.09 @ 10:25PM

Alright Kat.....

If you look at Ron Paul people and see white hoods and robes, it only belies your predisposition. Other than a few cretins and trolls, there was little in the way of racism.

You are either being disingenueous or you are metally stunted. Having only interacted with you here, I would guess that it might be a combination of the two.

You came in and seized on the few bad actors (who, incidentally are represented on both 'sides') and make broad generalizations about millions of people. That is clearly ignorant and unfair, and you must know that.

So which would you chalk it up to - mental infirmity or a lack of intellectual honesty?

WendyG| 1.7.09 @ 10:32PM

WendyG | 1.7.09 @ 8:47PM
Im really sorry guys
I feel really shameful for resorting to this disgusting tactic

***********

The tactic of pretending to be someone else?

You should be ashamed. Though there might be a kindergarden class somewhere where you could get a few laughs.

GJF| 1.7.09 @ 10:41PM

I see name-calling and "I disagree", but nothing of substance to criticize DR. Paul.

Kat| 1.7.09 @ 11:16PM

Ha ha. Trolls calling me a troll. Funny. Unfortunately the 'bad actors' outnumber the good in your group, Micah--at least those represented on this thread. Lots of racist haters in your group.

Kat| 1.7.09 @ 11:30PM

I didn't know much about Paul before Klein wrote this column, I was unsure, but I was willing to learn more. I also realize that there must be many fine people in your organization, but there is a very dark side, too. I think a lot of virulent bigots are using your movement to vent their hatred toward Jews, and I think it's disgusting. I just don't hear this kind of thing among my fellow conservative bloggers--we wouldn't tolerate it. You are not the only people who know that our country is in trouble, but your angry behavior only makes it worse. What do you propose that is positive?

DaveM| 1.7.09 @ 11:30PM

Fittin enough Kat, the thread began with name calling and so it ends.

Joe Shmoe| 1.7.09 @ 11:38PM

Troll:
"An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.[2]"

Your first post in the thread, Kat
Kat | 1.7.09 @ 3:53PM

Well, we can see that Ron Paul supporters can crash a web site, but they are now and always will be irrelevant. Malignant losers, too.

Troll? If the shoe fits, Kat...

Where have you posted any substance in this thread? All I've seen is you deriding anyone who has an opposing viewpoint. If it walks like a duck...

Gray| 1.7.09 @ 11:38PM

Ah, nothing like a good ol-fashioned flame war.

> Remember that this comes from the man who argued that U.S. bombing of Iraq during the 1990s was the cause of 9/11.

Then what did? "Their hate for our freedom" or some BS like that?

ruth| 1.7.09 @ 11:39PM

Well deserved, DaveM, as we can see by the disgraceful behavior of your fellow Paul commenters. Well deserved.

DaveM| 1.7.09 @ 11:51PM

You're too kind Ruth.

Who am I to argue with the gal who began this entire intellectual journey with the incisive observation:

"I never did trust this guy; I just knew he was a horse's butt."

Not to be outdone, Wendy opined:

"He's a kook."

Bravo ladies, for setting a distinctly cerebral tone!

Chuck Ullery| 1.8.09 @ 12:01AM

What is the number of Israelis that have been killed by Hamas missles over the last few years prior to this latest Israeli action? I hope I am not automatically considered a kook for asking this question!

ruth| 1.8.09 @ 12:05AM

DaveM, Touchy! So what, we didn't mean any harm. It wasn't for you and your people. Wendy and I were just being a little snarky. Paul's a big boy and this is politics--he can take it. Look at the garbage Palin has endured. You guys have so over-reacted, it makes you look weak.

ruth| 1.8.09 @ 12:10AM

I've said this before, if you want your movement to grow you must have some social skills. You are doing everything in your power to turn potential members away. Frankly, guys, your PR stinks.

John Galt| 1.8.09 @ 12:14AM

Hamas was created by Mossad in the same way Al Qaida was created by the US CIA and for the same reasons. The governments of USSA and IZREAL need a terroristic boogeyman to justify their evil activity. Behind every terroristic act is the government. How do I know this? Because the "terrorists" attack people in malls and such places. The Hamas missiles are ineffective at best. A TRUE terrorist, hell bent on fighting the governments would attack government facilities, city halls, infrastructure, military outposts, etc. It's all a charade to keep people like Kat and the other ZIONIST shills busy, busy, busy insulting people who recognize the truth for what it is. You can't find a single iota of dirt on Ron Paul. I challenge you to try.

DaveM| 1.8.09 @ 12:17AM

Me "touchy"?
I'm not touchy.
"Snarky" is fine for football and poker games, but unfortunately we're talking about war, which is as someone said "politics by another means."

If you want a discussion and not a knife fight refrain from trashing the man and the people who support him.

Touche'

John Galt| 1.8.09 @ 12:21AM

you can't argue with people like "ruth," because ruth is benefitting somehow from the whole evil arrangement. She(or he) either works for gov't in some way, or she/he is connected to the zionist movement or is a fanatical Christian who actually believes that Izreal is the chosen land and anything Izreal does is ok with God, so it's ok with Ruth. And the insults by neocons like Ruth are so pathetic and weak. Why do you even try? You and Kat are cut from the same manure pile and your stench reaches into the Heavens. You have lost your humanity and traded it for the cold comfort of the police state.

Micah| 1.8.09 @ 12:22AM

Ruth

Your advice isn't warranted or wanted- you've shown yourself to be an intellectual bantam-weight (and that is giving you the benefit of the doubt).

You and your neo-con heros are the last group anyone wishing to seize the intellectual debate should emulate. Never in history has a group with the intellectual upper hand self-destructed as fast as the neo-cons and the republican party have. Instead of forging a permanent majority, Rove, Bush and the rest of the miscreants imploded their party. They risk being marginalized for a generation if there isn't a return to sound and historical conservative positions.

And now an unimportant disciple (that would be you) wants to tell those advocating liberty how to go about it - on a message board, no less. Why on earth would we listen to your prescription?!? Are you really that detached from reality and good sense?

Micah| 1.8.09 @ 12:26AM

I should add.....

It is the height of ignorance to dismiss an intellectual argument because of irrelevant issues.

"You were mean, so I'm gonna put my hands over my ears and scream LA-LA-LA-LA-LA......"

You have displayed a metal capacity that doesn't reach the level of my 4-year old. Are you really stupid, or are you just playing stupid to facilitate your feigning that "I was ready to listen, but you all were just SO mean"......

Boo flippin Hoo. If you want to play in the big kids pool, stop acting like a baby.

JoeyBolz| 1.8.09 @ 12:27AM

Fellow Paulians, this is an angry mob. It's time to wash your hands.

ruth| 1.8.09 @ 12:47AM

Go away, little boys, you are the angry, racist mob. You make me ashamed to be an American. And I was right, there is something odd about Ron Paul--I just didn't know what. Your vicious screeds have cleared that up for me now, you are haters. You'll never be accepted by conservatives, you are too unbalanced, or for lack of a better word, KOOKS. Your group will cease to exist soon, you'll burn yourselves out. Can't wait.

Adam| 1.8.09 @ 12:56AM

Ruth:

I admire your firm stance against the assault of words you have faced. Admittedly, I am surprised to still see you here. Your character seems strong.

It is people of your character that we need to help rebuild the GOP platform. I am sure you have many ties with other republicans. Together, we can lobby for the sound ideals that Dr. Paul and true conservatism stand for.

For instance, wouldn't it be nice if our politicians started to uphold their constitutional oath. Our politicians from the left and the right both purposely mis-interpret the constitution for political benefit and monetary benefit. We need to put a stop to this!

It is in the conservative view to have limited government. Which means we do not need all of these expansions/departments of government influencing and regulating us domestically. We can start by getting rid of the Department of Education, which supports public education. Kids are never taught to question things anymore. History and Economics are propagated in favor of the state. We need to end this oppression of ideas. The internet and some books are our only resources for free ideals.

True conservatives also believe in a humble foreign policy. We do not like the idea of nation building and entangling alliances. Are founding fathers knew all to well of the repercussions that would occur. The hatred that we see directed at us from foreigners is because of our foreign policy of interventionism. They do not like us on their soil telling them what to do. Heck, I wouldn't like it either!

We are all fiscall conservatives as well. We like the idea of sound money. Which is money backed by a commodity (gold). Our currency today is backed by our trust in government. It is fiat. There is nothing behind the paper! We strongly believe in individualism. Therefore, we do not like the ideas of collectivism (socialism). Spreading the wealth only leads to unemployment and more domestic debt.

We also despise the central bank (federal reserve) This directly interferes with our ideas of free market capitalism. The federal reserve has a monopoly over the money supply and is able to manipulate interest rates. This colludes the market with malinvestment. The fed is responsible for inflation. The printing of dollars out of thin air is the main cause of inflation. When prices go up, you have less money in your pocket. Inflation is just another tax that the governmnet hides from you.

Best of all, we hate income taxes. If we had our wish the IRS would not exist. Not to mention, the IRS is unconstitutional. Why should we not be able to enjoy the fruits of our labor? We should not have to be working for government 3-4 months out of the year.

Ruth, most importantly, we love the idea of liberty. Freedom works! The government is on an inevitable path to serfdom unless we stop them. Our founders would be ashamed of us for just standing aside and letting this happen. After all they fought and for!

ruth| 1.8.09 @ 1:14AM

Who are you, Adam, and where the hell have you been? I know who I am and I don't want to lose our nation either; it is a part of me. I am a conservative, and I do believe in small government, but I will never hate any one, and I've seen a lot of hate on this thread. My character is strong, it's the character of the Paul people that is suspect. You people crashed a site I care deeply about, and you can kiss my ass if you think you can run me off that easily.

ruth| 1.8.09 @ 1:17AM

I am not a republican, I am a conservative. There's a difference.

ruth| 1.8.09 @ 1:19AM

You're preaching to the choir, Adam.

Adam| 1.8.09 @ 1:39AM

I just wanted to let you know that our ideas are probably not much different than your own.

Adam| 1.8.09 @ 1:43AM

I do not think that they meant to purposely attack your character Ruth.

Paul supporters are just so used to debating and defending their ideas because they are not "main stream." Unfortunately, they sometimes do so at the expense of others. I apologize. They neglected to notice that your conservative views are fundamentally the same as their own.

Adam| 1.8.09 @ 1:51AM

I am sorry for the mis-label, Ruth. I am not trying to run you off, I just wanted you to notice that ideals are infact the same, so we should not waste time arguing.

The dispute you had with others on this website was due to their interpretations of our foreign policy. Fundamentally, we all have the same foreign policy views. We all hate spending our hard earned taxed dollars over seas don't we?

We just have an understanding that are presence within other nations causes the "blowback" that we have unfortunately been faced with. The terrorists will be the first to tell you that they do not like us on their turf telling them what to do. They do not like our support for Israel and other nations that look down upon the muslim state. For these reasons, we should be minding our own business. We have plenty of concerns here at home that we should be dealing with. We can both admit that we hate war, right? So lets start setting a better example. Others will see this and want to mimic us! We need to be the great nation that we once were!

ruth| 1.8.09 @ 2:04AM

I told them we were the same, Adam, they ignored my words and attacked me. That's why I was laughing--I knew that I was (for the most part) one of you. You don't have to apologize for them--that's not your responsibility. Debate and defend? Don't know about that. Attack and destroy may be.Wendy is a very intelligent and kind person--she didn't deserve to be treated so poorly. I know the people on this blog and I won't bail on them. Does Ron Paul value loyalty? I do, and that's why I fought it out with a bunch of smart mouthed punks. Not you, Adam. I usually fight with liberals, this fight didn't make sense and that's why I didn't take it seriously. The fate of our country, now that's a damn serious matter. Thanks for being so cool, I thought that I had walked into the Twilight Zone.

John Galt| 1.8.09 @ 2:06AM

I see. You neo-cons are afraid of John Galt. You always have been. Ron Paul is a GOOD MAN. You, on the other hand, have zero comprehension of what that means. NEO-CON = COWARD

I dare you...BRING IT!

RON PAUL RULES| 1.8.09 @ 2:07AM

These zionists are so obvious now. They realize, deep inside, that their time is short. You hear that zio-nazis??? YOUR TIME IS SHORT!

Adam| 1.8.09 @ 2:17AM

Ruth-

Ron Paul absolutely values loyalty. I think it is our extreme loyalty to him and his ideas that get us into these senseless arguments.

We are the ones who say there are consequences for our actions overseas. We would be hypocrytical to think that there isn't consequences for our own foul language and name calling.

We just always feel like the "underdog" because of the way the media shunned Dr. Paul during the election. Therefore, we tend to start meaningless fights. I also noticed the harsh words towards Wendy as well. I am sure she is also no different than us.

I would love to blog and debate the liberals here with you! Down with the Libs!

Adam| 1.8.09 @ 2:24AM

Ruth-

I honestly think if you took the time to research Dr. Paul you would come to admire him as well. He is a principled statesman who always defends the constitution!

He is an obstetrician and has delivered thousands of babies. He is also a family man. He has an awesome wife along with several children.

Check out some of is websites:
campaignforliberty.com or

http://www.house.gov/paul/

He is all for the people Ruth! Not one selfish bone in his body.

ruth| 1.8.09 @ 2:28AM

It just seemed like a huge inferiority complex en masse. I get the scrappy little underdog thing. Please explain to me, the two bloggers before you. What is their deal and what are they refering to? Delusional?

ruths lezbo lover| 1.8.09 @ 2:35AM

Ruth...go F*CK YOURSELF you piece of fecal matter

ruth| 1.8.09 @ 2:37AM

Oh, by the way, DaveM--screw you! I'll say whatever the hell I please about Paul. Ever hear of Freedom of Speech? Since you people are so damned serious about your Constitution and Bill of Rights, and all. Or in your case is it 'rights for me and not for thee?" Hypocrite.

ruth| 1.8.09 @ 2:39AM

Nice erudite post by one of your members? Man, you guys have real problems with your image--and I'm a sympathizer!

ruth| 1.8.09 @ 2:41AM

I'm embarassed for you.

Adam| 1.8.09 @ 2:41AM

It has to do with the Israel lobby in the U.S. called AIPAC. This institution supports Israel at all costs and ifluences our policy makers.

We haven't always supported Israel, it was after a failed invasion of Lebanon that Israel felt it necessary to gain our support. So they funded several lobbyists to come over here and influence are politicians by financial means and or character discrimination.

AIPAC has become so influential within our country that if a politician or member of the media says anything negative about Israel their carreers will be over. Does this make sense? I am not the most articulate person.

Adam| 1.8.09 @ 2:44AM

I think they are reading your earlier posts Ruth, when you were getting attacked. They do not understand that you were defending yourself nor that our ideals are the same. Like I said, we tend to be a little defensive. Okay--- extremely defensive!

ruth| 1.8.09 @ 2:45AM

Is that what lezbo lover is ranting about? Why are they posting here? Who is John Galt? I do know what AIPAC is.

ruth| 1.8.09 @ 2:48AM

I understand the defensive part--but when it crosses over into nutjob territory, I tend to turn off, you know?

Adam| 1.8.09 @ 2:52AM

Here are a couple of links you can cut and paste to watch some time. They sum it up much better than I. One is about the Lobby and the other is about the media bias.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N294FMDok98

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Peace,+Propaganda+and+the+Promised+Land:+Media++the+Israel-Palestine+...&hl=en&emb=0&aq;=-1&oq;=#

Jason| 1.8.09 @ 2:53AM

if not for the way that Ron Paul was shamelessly ignored by Fox News and Co. he would have won hands down. (he did raise more money amongst active duty military personell than any other Republican candidate)
Your hatred of Ron Paul is nothing more than a manifestation of the orchestrated hatchet job that the media has done to him and his ideas. Totally fueled by ignorance and inability to put forth any effort to form an opinion based on anything other than that which are said by Sean Hannity, and Rush Limbaugh.

ruth| 1.8.09 @ 2:54AM

Thanks, Adam, for taking the time to talk to me. I appreciate it. Since it's just turned into January 8--my birthday, I'll consider your kindness a birthday gift.

Adam| 1.8.09 @ 2:57AM

Yeah, I agree. I wish we could try and pleasantly display our ideas rather than deem every potential opponent an enemy. Like I said before, many conservatives, such as yourself, have the same values as us. They forget that a lot of people do not know a whole lot about Dr. Paul. So we should be informing people, not bashing fellow conservatives.

ruth| 1.8.09 @ 2:59AM

The only hatred I've seen on this thread has been from people like you, Jason. You guys are going to have to get it under control or it will destroy your movement. That would be a shame because your country needs you.

ruth| 1.8.09 @ 3:01AM

Exactly. You have to teach not bully. Bullying doesn't work, that's what liberals do.

ruth| 1.8.09 @ 3:03AM

I know that very difficult times are coming, I hope we can help one another through them.

Adam| 1.8.09 @ 3:04AM

Well, happy b-day Ruth. You are welcome. The least I can do is be courteous.

You should be aware that their are many people who purposely mislabel themselves as conservatives. I am sure you know this. These are what we call in the Paul family, neo-cons.

They undermine the true values of conservatism. They believe and spreading democracy by force. Which is not a classical conservative view point! This was definately not the view of our founders, who were, in fact, conservative themselves.

Our founders said, " Friendship and commerce with all nations, entangling alliances with none." We need to take this quote to heart today more than ever!

ruth| 1.8.09 @ 3:10AM

I thought that a lot of the posters on this thread were pretending to be Paul people but were actually leftists trying to cause division between you and us. They don't want us to unify because we would smash them in the next election. It wouldn't surprise me, and their strategy worked.

ruth| 1.8.09 @ 3:11AM

Pat Buchanan must be one of you.

Adam| 1.8.09 @ 3:12AM

I definately don't want you to associate us with the liberals! No way! They are socialists and proponents of Big Government. Both of these ideas attack our freedoms.

I agree Ruth, as do all Paul supporters, that tough times are coming. Financially and more than likely militarily. I hope the latter doesn't happen for man kinds sake. This war is so unneccessary! We need some serious diplomacy more than ever. We need to start listening to our so called enemies. We cannot keep insighting more hatred. It gets us nowhere! They are willing to work with us. It is our leaders that stand in the way, they undermine people like you and me. They are inherently belligerant. It is a shame!

We have a lot of work to do, Ruth.

Adam| 1.8.09 @ 3:16AM

I know Pat Buchanan is very sympathetic of Ron Paul. He differs on the whole free trade idea though. He is pro tariffs. Those liberals would do that wouldn't they! I am glad you stuck around, your intuitions were right.

Ron Paul supporter| 1.8.09 @ 3:19AM

Here's the problem with people like Ruth, Kat, and the other neocons and zionists. We Ron Paul supporters KNOW that he is a good man, and when misguided or bad people say disparaging things about Ron Paul, we go to his defense. We have heard enough people demonize this good man and we are sick of it. Ruth, the fact that you don't even know who "John Galt" is, tells me that you seriously need a reeducation.

ruth| 1.8.09 @ 3:19AM

A lot. Good night, Adam, I'm tired, I was up all last night posting on this damn site. Glad I did it. Thanks again for your graciousness. Ruth

ruth| 1.8.09 @ 3:23AM

Screw you, RPSupporter. Take your smug arrogance and shove it where the sun don't shine. Commies have reeducation camps--not freedom loving Americans. You should know that, Asshat. You people are your own worst enemies--STUPID!!!

Adam| 1.8.09 @ 3:25AM

Ruth-

Keep in mind, that there are several members in the mainstream media that will try and dis-credit Ron Paul. This is all propaganda!

They do this because they exist because of big government. The FCC are the watchdogs that influence what gets televised. So called Conservatives love discrediting Dr. Paul. These are typically the neo-conservatives which I mentioned earlier.

You may admire Klein, the author of this article. But he did try and misuse Dr. Paul's words. He didn't mention why Dr. Paul feels the way he does. He just pointed the finger and played the he said this game. He neglected to add the other reasons Dr. Paul attributes to the cause of the 911 attacks. All of Dr. Paul's stances are principled and morally based. I promise you this. That is why I respect him so much. He is not your typical politician. He is not scared to stand up for what is right for the people. He puts the people first. Not his political career.

Adam| 1.8.09 @ 3:28AM

RonPaul Supporter-

Is the name calling really necessary? Ruth is no different than us. Fundamentally our views are the same. Look at our recent posts. We agree on mostly everything. Let's stop with the unneccessary name calling please. It only isolates us!

ruth| 1.8.09 @ 3:29AM

I understand, Klein is very pro-Israel. But please don't compare him to the MSM, that makes me want to vomit.

Adam| 1.8.09 @ 3:31AM

No problem, Ruth. Good night. I will be back to blog against the liberals some time.

Adam | 1.8.09 @ 3:33AM

Sorry- I meant main stream as in all news outlets, not just media. I will take that back so you do not vomit on yourself. We wouldn't want that.

ruth| 1.8.09 @ 3:35AM

Good night, Adam. It was nice meeting you.

Adam| 1.8.09 @ 3:46AM

Good night Ruth, Nice meeting you too. One more point I had to get out:
Since Klein is pro-Israel. The Ron Paul supporters see that as the reason he didn't mention all of the facts. So as a result, they enter the blog very unhappy. Could be the reason for some of the outlandish comments.

Dr. Paul does not support either side in this matter. His main point is that it is none of our business. We should try convincing Klein that Paul isn't so bad, he is just misinterpreted.

Terry| 1.8.09 @ 3:52AM

It's simple - America was built on freedom for the individual.

US Foreign policy violates that premise by distributing wealth to prop up foreign nations and resents us for meddling. Every domestic policy spawned from this interventionalism is unjust and traitorous just as the policy itself is. We should be taking care of HOME and trade with the the rest of the world - end of story.

The anti-Americans hitch their idealogy to the latest form of tyranny through ignorance or complicity. Those who also hold political office are guilty of treason. The true Americans are saving their country by calling a spade a spade. Those people are Ron Paul supporters.

ruth| 1.8.09 @ 3:52AM

I understand. Also, RPSupporter, I will read Atlas Shrugged, I've got a copy and I know I should have read more of Ayn Rand years ago. In my defense, however, I was probably reading something else that was dry as dirt and just as abstruse. More education not re-education.

Adam| 1.8.09 @ 4:07AM

All Ron Paul supporters-

We have to be carefull who we isolate from our views. Many conservatives, such as Ruth, find that their views are no different than their own. They just do not know a whole lot about Dr. Paul.

We sure are not going to spark their interest by endless name calling and defending policies with reasons that somebody may have never heard of because they haven't been introduced to Dr. Paul.

How can we continue our movement if we isolate the people that our fundamentally on our side. We need to teach them why we think the way we think. We cannot just condemn them instantly.

There are many good conservative minds out there that would love Dr. Paul if they gave him a chance. We need to make his cause more approachable. I am sorry to be repetitive, but as Ruth pointed out, she was immediately turned off by our harsh use of words attacking her.

WendyG| 1.8.09 @ 8:14AM

There is nothing new here.

Any time Israel defends itself the Jewhaters - oh excuse me the anti-Israel/pro Hamas crowd - gets hopped up.

In the public arena the usual suspects chime in - Ron Paul, Jimmy Carter, Taki, Zbigniew Brzezinski - etc., etc. On the right it's the paleo-cons who years ago were thrown out of the Conservative movement still doing their thing.

But it matters not. Israel will do what it has to do. And the US will support it.

As we speak top Democrats are planning to introduce a non-binding congressional resolution supporting Israel's goal in its Gaza Strip operation.

Frank| 1.8.09 @ 8:30AM

Wendy,

Ron Paul is not a Jew hater. He simply says that the United States should stay out of this conflict because it is not our business.

I think there's a good chance that if you research Ron Paul's positions more, you will see that you agree with him 80 or 90 percent of the time.

wilderness| 1.8.09 @ 9:33AM

So, we can love Israel, but we are not allowed to love Gaza according to Ruth...hhhhmmm? So who's hating who? And if people, like Ruth and GOP baby! and Wendy can't hold onto one point of thoughtful argumentation, then we that love moral liberty really know who we are up against... unthoughtful people unfortunately. Go Ron Paul!

gone gulchin'| 1.8.09 @ 9:37AM

Way to build the coalition, guys.

Remember that this comes from the man who argued that U.S. bombing of Iraq during the 1990s was the cause of 9/11.

Are people still under the misguided impression that "they hate us for our freedoms"? Really? Even now, conservatives are loathe to admit it's a combination of the Islamicists' fundy insanity and blowback? Pathetic.

WendyG| 1.8.09 @ 9:52AM

http://www.masada2000.org/Dear-World.html

As wise today as when it was written.

PS - I never said Ron Paul was a Jewhater. I said times like this bring out Jewhaters. Certainly those who yell "Jews to the ovens" at pro-Hamas rallies are Jewhaters.

In addition, nobody really needs to call out Jewhatred.

Anyone with a brain knows it when they see it, however veiled it might be, and when it parades itself as anti-Israel rhetoric.

tomdawg| 1.8.09 @ 10:13AM

WendyG

Why should the US support either side in this conflict?

What is Israel to you?

Frank| 1.8.09 @ 10:14AM

Wendy,

It's true that you did not directly state "Ron Paul is a Jew hater." However, you seemed to imply that you believed him to be one. You stated, "Any time Israel defends itself the Jewhaters - oh excuse me the anti-Israel/pro Hamas crowd - gets hopped up," and then, in the very next sentence, you named Ron Paul, along with Jimmy Carter, Taki, and Zbigniew Brzezinski, as one of the "usual suspects" who "chime in." If I misunderstood your intention, I apologize.

Anyway, this discussion is about Ron Paul, not "those who yell 'Jews to the ovens' at pro-Hamas rallies."

I have a question for you, Wendy:

If someone believes that the United States should not give aid to Israel, does that make them a "Jew hater"?

Please answer the question directly.

Tommy| 1.8.09 @ 10:18AM

Adam -

How in the world is it possible to reason with neocons? They are fundamentally evil people that need to be politically destroyed regardless of how many years or decades may be required. Their views are antithetical to the ideas of the vast majority of the Founding Fathers. Their ideas are more consistent with Leon Trotsky.

Remember that these people did everything imaginable to have Ron Paul marginalized during the primaries. Why the hell do you want to form an alliance with them? You may want to be on friendly terms with neocons, but I refuse to align myself with such garbage. Remember that if you lay down with dogs (like Ruth, Wendy, Berg, and others who think like them), you will catch fleas. Good luck to you because you will need it. However, do not be surprised if the neocons stick the proverbial knife in your back.

By the way, I've never seen a candidate get his ass kissed by the media more than Barack Obama, and I've never seen a candidate as blatantly marginalized by the media and operatives from his own party as Ron Paul. Palin was nowhere close to being as heavily attacked as Ron Paul.

Tommy| 1.8.09 @ 10:20AM

Wendy -

Don't lie. You refer to Ron Paul supporters as Jew-haters. You and Ruth (and others with your mindset) push neutral people into the anti-semitic group with your words and actions.

Michelle Fire Eater| 1.8.09 @ 10:27AM

For those who lack the stamina to read this "intellectual" ping-pong, a summary:
GOP Faithful: Ron Paul is a kook! Unamerican! Idiots! Aaaurgh!
Paultard: You do not have the appropriate religious reference for "the founders." [as if they all wanted the same thing.] So go expletive expletive blah blah
GOPtard: Oh yeah well Ron Pual is a moroan and you peple are moroans nyah nyah nyah
TrueConservative: Um, history shows that...
GOPtard: Shut up you racist Israel hater! Go away!
TrueConservative: Well, Ron Paul has stated that he supports neither side and rather thinks that we should stop all foreign aid to ALL of these nations because it is none of our business and supporting one or the other only invites their problems onto our backs and, of course it is totally obnoxious to demand people's taxes be used to support interventionism and RELIGIOUS wars which is what support for Israel is, a RELIGIOUS mandate and why in hell should the taxpayer be FORCED to support a STATE RELIGION or the slaughter of ANY civilians over freakin' RELIGIOUS matters through foreign aid?
GOPtard: SHut up you anti-semite!
GOPReasonable: Why are all these people getting their panties in a bunch? Can we just debate ideas?
Paultard: No, you shut you stupid neocon!
GOPTard: No, you shut up! Kook!
Tard: No, you shut up, con! you do not have appropriate respect for founders! Expletive expletive blah blah
ConservativePaulStudent: Um, did anyone want to debate the merits of this argument today? Either one? Anyone?
Tards in unison!: Shut up! We are having a fight here and there is no room for intelligent discussion! Expletive your mama nyah nyah
Conservative: Did anyone want to justify their position that any American is obligated to support a state religion through foreign aid to Israel?
Paultards: Yeah!
RemainingTards: Cut that out!
Keep it up you guys because I am in stitches over here.... While it is sad that the little humans will never get anywhere because they can't get out of the sandbox, I am still heartily amused. Most amusing is two opponents basing their "loyalties" on whether or not they are "really the same deep down" which means I can get a nice rounded dose of BOTH liberal and conservative pabulum without having to visit liberal websites. I love efficiency. Thanks, you guys!! And good luck not getting sand in your eyes!

Frank| 1.8.09 @ 10:30AM

Tommy,

I agree that hardcore neocons cannot really be reasoned with. However, many people who are not true neocon ideologues follow the neocons because the neocons make up the only "conservative" movement visible to them. Many of these people can be reasoned with, because they are not commited neoconservatives. Often, they understand that establishment Republican candidates are not ideal and are not truly conservative, but they perceive them as better than the Democrats. We Ron Paul supporters should be careful who we alienate.

Adam| 1.8.09 @ 10:32AM

Tommy-
I don't think that all neocons are lost causes. A lot of them have been duped by the media into thinking that it is good to spread democracy around the world. They have never heard of the ideas of non-interventionalism as the founders taught it. I am just saying that it is our obligation to try and teach them and not think that everybody is out to get us.

Many RP supporters were once neocons themselves. If they were able to make sense of things, many others will be able to as well. Some people start getting fed up with war after a while and tend to look for alternatives. That is where we need to step in and explain some of the core fundamental views of conservatism.

Do you really think Dr. Paul would come onto a blog and start attacking people who may disagree with him? Anyway, I genuinely think that many neocons are truly compassionate and caring, they just know no other alternative views. They need to be taught that minding your own business is a conservative view. Once this is realized, the whole idea of concervatism becomes even more intriguing.

Tommy| 1.8.09 @ 10:34AM

Frank -

How come they are not careful about alienating us? Why should we give them a pass?

Tommy| 1.8.09 @ 10:36AM

Frank -

I would still be very hesitant.

gone gulchin'| 1.8.09 @ 10:40AM

Michelle Fire Eater FTW!

mpolzkill| 1.8.09 @ 10:41AM

@Michelle:

I have this fantasy that substantive discussions can be had on internet forums. I've had about a 2% success rate. I'll quit for a few weeks or so & then, fool that I am, think that I can do better the next time. It just doesn't work. Your type though, the superior acting know-it-alls who just make appearances to ridicule the inevitable disaster of a "conversation", I can't see how your contribution is any more beneficial than anyone else's.

There must be some way to make these forums work. Maybe if people had to pay a penny a word, or just some kind of moderator, I don't know.

Adam| 1.8.09 @ 10:41AM

Tommy-
I think we alienate ourselves too fast when we come storming in making Zionist accuasations and such.

We need to explaing why we feel the way we do first. It all can be traced backed to the fundamentals. Once the fundamentals are understood, then the rest just fits into place.

Michelle Fire Eater| 1.8.09 @ 10:42AM

Oh, I almost forgot to mention that the very funniest part of this exchange is how both Paul supporters and GOP faithful think that the words of a few individuals on websites somehow represent entire "movements" or "party opinion" or what have you instead of just the opinion of the poster, or how the posters feel the need to represent their singular opinion as the opinion of the box they play in. So here we have a bunch of so-called conservatives debating what the proper conservative opinion is and both basing their ideals on herd thinking! Amazing! And then there is a randroid actually foaming at the mouth, which could only mean that he completely missed Rand's message! Brilliant stuff I LOVE THIS PAGE!!!

WendyG| 1.8.09 @ 10:43AM

tomdawg | 1.8.09 @ 10:13AM

WendyG

Why should the US support either side in this conflict?

What is Israel to you?

********
The only democracy in the Middle East and a bulwark against a complete takeover of the region by brutal dictators, self-appointed oil-rich royals, and/or Islamofascists who would just as soon kill you as look at you. And believe me, states like Jordan ans Egypt are very grateful to have Israel to do their dirty work now.

You like driving you car, heating your house, etc? Then you better pray Israel survives.

America needs reliable allies. It only has one in the Middle East.

And BTW, Israel does more than go to war. It is one of the most technologically sophisiticated nations on Earth, a place where medical technology is superior, where every day breakthroughs in medical science and other sciences are made.

On the other hand, woman may actually get to drive some day, in Saudi Arabia. :)

Israel is also the place where Jews can be safe from the new Nazis.

Adam| 1.8.09 @ 10:44AM

Mpolzkill-

Well said, the "know it all characters" are definately not very appealing. Enough said.

Tommy| 1.8.09 @ 10:46AM

What if they're not interested?

Silverwing| 1.8.09 @ 10:47AM

I have been reading this post with interest. I have been trying to see what Ruth's position is and haven't been able to find one thing she says as to what she stands for. She hates Ron Paul and everyone who supports his stand. And his stand is simply to uphold the constitution. The country is in a mess financially and all that is being proposed is to sink it deeper by printing money out of thin air to be eventually paid for by its citizens. When a country doesn't even own its central bank and its government having to go there to borrow money (which this central bank doesn't have) and pay it interest, something is fundamentally wrong. And people are against Ron Paul's stand? One poster here has asked a question to Ruth many times and she(?) never answered. All she can do is spit out venom and accuse others of doing the same. If anyone out there has read one thing that Ruth said as to what she disagrees with in Ron Paul's stand, let me know; and the statement that his face looks like a horse's butt doesn't count. I'd like to see hers. And why does she not want the opinions of anyone who doesn't agree with her (whatever she stands for other than hating Ron Paul). She can always start her own post limited to those who agree with (on what I don't know, safe hating Ron Paul. Is it any wonder we are in such a mess.

mpolzkill| 1.8.09 @ 10:47AM

@gone gulchin':

"Michelle Fire Eater FTW!"

Exactly, you just nailed what's wrong here. That why she's not as above the rest of the field here as she's like to think. The whole thing is about "winning" for too many people. Not nearly enough emphasis on learning & refining understanding.

Adam| 1.8.09 @ 10:48AM

Wendy-

Why do you think it is that we are Israel's only ally? Are we the only country that gets it?

Adam| 1.8.09 @ 10:52AM

Silverwing-

Ruth is actually very reasonable. She agreed with many of RP's stances. Check out her recent blogging; 1:00 a.m to 3:30 a.m.

mpolzkill| 1.8.09 @ 10:54AM

Thanks Adam.

[I shouldn't say this, after all the work you did, but I can't resist, I'm just a born-asshole.

I like Ruth, & if you look back, you can see that I was trying to do what you did. I'm just not in your league; that's why I call you "The Ruth Whisperer".

Joe Shmoe| 1.8.09 @ 10:55AM

Adam, thanks for taking the time to try and get ruth and the others to understand that our positions are ~very~ similar.

But being that the following was her first post, the first post on the thread...
ruth | 1.6.09 @ 5:08PM

I never did trust this guy; I just knew he was a horse's butt.

... she set the tone and then complains that others lack proper social skills? I find it very difficult to communicate with someone who starts off a conversation by being, well, a jerk. Then she has the nerve to continue to deride and condescend and not expect people to respond! She does this herself and complains about others, talk about duplicitous!

Anyway, thanks Adam. Your kindness to overlook the obvious immaturity of ruth and others certainly moved the conversation in the right direction. I only wish ruth et.al. would have begun the thread that way.

Perhaps now we can actually have an intelligent disscussion and point out where the misunderstandings have occurred.

Michelle Fire Eater| 1.8.09 @ 11:00AM

Sorry, mpolzkill, my mistake. I forgot to clarify that I am not here to contribute to the "conversation." I am here only for my own, deeply personal amusement. Normally I don't visit, or ignore, or try to be helpful or contribute but this particular exchange is just too funny to take seriously at all. Why shouldn't someone who has no investment in the "conversation" feel free to laugh hysterically at people who act like they just got teleported here from the dark ages? Oh, and good luck thinking there is anything productive whatsoever that can come from internet forums! The ideas are totally irrelevant while "people" are unable to communicate based on reason rather than faith or emotion. You suggest that because I am ridiculing the utterly foolish behavior of these people that I must be a "superior know-it-all type" and, while this may or may not be true, it is irrelevant to the fact that a) I'm right and b) I'm just having some excellent fun at the expense of people who call themselves conservatives, act like liberals and then argue with each other about who is the bigger faith-based-thinking caveman. It's precious! How can I resist?

Adam| 1.8.09 @ 11:03AM

Wendy-

The reason I hesitate to side with Israel is because of how I interpret foreign policy and its intentions.

I strongly believe in "friendship and commerce with all nations, entangling alliances with none." I do not like the idea of spreading democracy. I have listened to our enemies and they tell us that they do not appreciate us on their turf telling them what to do. They do not appreciate our funding of foreign governments that despise them.

We choose to ignore these requests at our own risk. Sometimes there are consequences to our actions. Which is called blowback. Would we put up with other countries coming into the U.S. and building embassy's and trying to tell us what to do?

We definately would not appreciate that. We cannot continue to go on along this path. Countries are willing to work with us, they know our military is superior to theirs. They just want to be left alone. We need to set a better example.

Michelle Fire Eater| 1.8.09 @ 11:06AM

And, like magic, the posts get more reasonable and the numbnuts are on lunch. Anyone wanting to actually discuss these ideas reasonably should have some more room to do so.
My work is done here.

Adam| 1.8.09 @ 11:07AM

Joe-

I noticed that. She didn't have a clear understanding where he was coming from though. She was mislead by the article, so it is hard to blame her.

mpolzkill| 1.8.09 @ 11:11AM

@Michelle:

Many people were/are here for many reasons. We're "conversing", & so are you. You seem to be quite a cynic. I am too , but you're a bit much for me, that's all. You can do whatever you want, that's not the point, I'm just saying it's irritating to be sincerely trying (& obviously the Ron Paul phenomenon owes a lot to internet forums much like this one, btw) & failing & be mocked for it. It's kind of the feeling you get from a really smug backseat driver. Know what I mean?

You're actually the first person that's said anything I felt like responding to in sometime, so I'm actually ok with you, haha. But now I've got to go to work, damnit. Take care, smart-ass. (hehe)

Adam| 1.8.09 @ 11:13AM

Thanks for the kind words mpolzkill. Take care.

Adam| 1.8.09 @ 11:16AM

Time for me to hit the road as well. Take care ya'll.

Eric D.| 1.8.09 @ 11:19AM

Adam: "I do not like the idea of spreading democracy."

Then you are un-American.

Listen to what Wendy is saying. If we do not pour as much money and military into Israel we all lose.

Tommy| 1.8.09 @ 11:38AM

Adam -
Do you see what I mean? Morons like Eric D. put Israel's interests as equal to or above the interests of the United States. Bastards like him portray you as un-American because you don't kiss Israel's ass. Are you sure that you want to work with that a**hole?

Joe Scho| 1.8.09 @ 11:49AM

We should but out. They've been killing themselves for centuries. Let 'em. You all are spoiled living in America. If you grew up in Lebanon or Israel you will have a completely different perspective regardless which side with passion. Americans need to take care of themselves right now and pull America out of debt and recession. Congress is inflating money... whooo hooo like it worked for all those Latin American countries, Asian Countries, African Countries, and European Countries.... it didn't work. We're stupid! :) weeeee!!!

lucid| 1.8.09 @ 11:53AM

neoconservtism: an idea that bankrupting America from the paranoid notion that arabs need to be dealt with with racist preemption.... is more important than liberty, honesty, ethics, truth and the goyim.

hah... neo-con's. What a failed, flawed ideology. This latest adventure in the mid east was the last nail in the coffin of the American economy, prepare for the fall.

Elizabeth| 1.8.09 @ 11:59AM

Dr. Paul's international policy ideas make good sense, once you hear them out throughly. Is there anyone on this forum who can explain with certainty why we ever went into Iraq to begin with. The weapons of mass destruction argument fell apart. Yet we persist. Why? Also, we do continue to maintain military bases all over the world. Geographically, we are a pretty well protected country. We have ocean on both sides of us and friendly neighbors north and south. If anyone came after us we would hours, if not days to prepare for it. We don't need this huge military empire and that is Dr. Paul's point. He wants peace and prosperity for us and trade with our neighbors. Those aren't bad ideas, I think.

Elizabeth| 1.8.09 @ 11:59AM

Dr. Paul's international policy ideas make good sense, once you hear them out throughly. Is there anyone on this forum who can explain with certainty why we ever went into Iraq to begin with. The weapons of mass destruction argument fell apart. Yet we persist. Why? Also, we do continue to maintain military bases all over the world. Geographically, we are a pretty well protected country. We have ocean on both sides of us and friendly neighbors north and south. If anyone came after us we would hours, if not days to prepare for it. We don't need this huge military empire and that is Dr. Paul's point. He wants peace and prosperity for us and trade with our neighbors. Those aren't bad ideas, I think.

Eric D.| 1.8.09 @ 12:14PM

You people have your priorities so scewed. So what if the United States goes bankrupt financing Israel. Israel is like the Alamo when it comes to these islamic scum.
You need to listen a bit more to people like Ruth and Wendy and a little less to your kooky Ron Paul.

Wiglaf| 1.8.09 @ 12:18PM

Adam says: "Ruth is actually very reasonable. She agreed with many of RP's stances."

Ruth says: "I never did trust this guy; I just knew he was a horse's butt...He just looks crazy to me. Sometimes McCain does, too...Who let all of the Paul freaks escape from their nut house? You people are as stupid as your leader, Paul, and you probably look as crazy as he does...The last blogger, A-Z, symbolizes all of you evil, racist, anti-semitic morons who support Ron Paul...You racist moron...He's the only one with the balls to admit to his bigotry, the rest of you are cowards...Ron Paul is a loser, and so are you. He'll never be elected to the presidency--your's is a dying cause...I'd heard that Ron Paul's followers were a little over the top, but I didn't know that they were such vicious haters. I'll make sure my friends know. Such a nasty bunch of losers...Alan, no worries. Their hatred will consume them, and I have to laugh that their little man will never, ever be elected to the presidency. I pity the fools...Then get off of our site, freak...didn't know much about Paul before you vicious bigots crashed our site. But you people do him a huge disservice with your vicious attacks. You've totally screwed him in our eyes...What I meant is that Ron Paul's face LOOKS like a horse's butt. You ass-clowns can crash this site but Paul will still never be president. Your leader is a loser and that means you are all losers too.

Yup. She's the epitome of "reasonableness" despite her continuous ad hominem and guilt by association attacks. She doesn't understand the Ron Paul "movement" and she clearly has no interest in understanding it. She says she "believes in small government" like many republicans state but when it comes to actual votes, she votes in large government republicans. She states, "You have to teach not bully. Bullying doesn't work, that's what liberals do." Yet she starts the entire blog comments off with bullying name calling, not reasoned debate. She argues for size of a movement, and not the merit of ideas. Her arguments are NOT reasoned. They are emotional. This is HER site that she DEEPLY cares about. Sorry, Adam, but she has NOT demonstrated reasonableness in the comments to this post. She has demonstrated knee-jerk emotional reaction.

Tommy| 1.8.09 @ 12:19PM

Eric D. -

You proved my point, a**hole. You care more about Israel than the United States. With a friend like Israel, who needs enemies. Ruth, Wendy, Berg, you, and others who think like you define the term neo-c*nt.

MrLiberty| 1.8.09 @ 12:55PM

Wow, looks like everything horrible you have been saying about Ron Paul's comments now needs to be said about the Pope:

http://news.antiwar.com/2009/01/07/israel-outraged-as-vatican-official-calls-for-peace-talks/

Jesus was of course a closet war-monger - right???

WendyG| 1.8.09 @ 12:57PM

If someone believes that the United States should not give aid to Israel, does that make them a "Jew hater"?

*******
That's a complex question. Obviously Israel is not immune to criticism and if someone is against all foreign aid then that speaks for itself and I cannot determine whether such a view reflects anti-semitism given no other information.

But while criticism of Israel is not de facto anti-semitism, anti-Zionism is very often, in practice, a cover for anti-semitism.

I direct you to recent column relevant to this issue.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2009/01/07/yes_its_anti_semitism/

I do know that there are certain people who reflectively blame Israel first, even in the face of evidence of repeated transgressions and aggressions by the Palestinians and Hamas. These people seem blind to everything except what they perceive as Israel's culpability. They never give the same weight to what is done to Israel, as what Israel does in response.

Zionism is no different than Americanism. A people on a piece of land that is legally theirs, and that they will defend. Would Americans accept a barrage of rockets from over the border of Canada? Of course not.

Israel no more belongs to the Palestinians now than America belongs to the American Indian.

Tommy| 1.8.09 @ 1:06PM

Anybody who supports their government giving any type of foreign aid to any other country's government is an idiot.

Wiglaf| 1.8.09 @ 1:15PM

WendyG, I read the article. In it, it states: "But it takes willful blindness not to see that anti-Zionism today - opposition to the existence of Israel, rejection of the idea that the Jewish people are entitled to a state - is merely the old wine of anti-Semitism in its newest bottle."

This is not only an ad hominem and guilt by association attack, but a demonstration that Jeff doesn't understand "Zionism" in the first place. I am anti-Zionist because I do not agree with the ESCHATOLOGY of either the Jews or the evangelicals today. I believe their eschatology is wrong and demonstrates a complete failure to understand the meaning of scripture. This however, is a religious argument, NOT a race argument.

I believe the U.S. does a disservice to Israel by making them dependent on our resources. They are perfectly capable of surviving without U.S. financing. Of course, the socialist mindset doesn't understand the truth of that statement.

Casie| 1.8.09 @ 1:24PM

Glad someone is calling Israel out. Ron Paul is a very intelligent man, our country would be a much better place to live if we started listening to this man!!

Penny Pritzker| 1.8.09 @ 1:28PM

We must support Israel and their Death machine no matter what! We must ensure that America Pays the BILLIONS from the TAXPAYERS to preserve our ZIONIST system.

You Ron Paul "CONSTITUTIONALISTS" are a waste. The Constitution is a dead old piece of paper and it us Wealth and Zionists that give all you short-sighted low IQ Americans jobs.

Israel has far more intelligence and future than all you freedom freaks. If it wasn't for Israel and the Jewish people, you morons would be paying $200 a barrel. Don't try pulling anything Anti-Semetic, we have a force on the internet that crush and peasant movement you attempt.

No go back to work and pay your taxes!

Tommy| 1.8.09 @ 1:37PM

Penny Pritzker -

Leave the country, bitch.

ruth| 1.8.09 @ 3:25PM

Adam, I knew this wasn't going to be easy because there are a lot of mouth breathers who support Ron Paul. Two big examples: Joe Shmoe and Wiglaf. Last time I checked, we still had Freedom of Speech, Joe and W, or is that just for those who agree with you? You are so thin skinned that it clouds your judgement. I wasn't on a Ron Paul site and my words weren't for you. I was joking with someone I knew on AmSpec. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. My point is you need conservatives like me if you want your movement to grow because there are a lot more of me than you right now. Your pettiness will just get in your way. Many of you have responded with vicious posts, though I don't know how many were actually Ron Paul supporters, so understand that you're going to get it back. Come on, Tommy, Penny is a plant--what is wrong with you?

Tommy| 1.8.09 @ 4:04PM

Ruth -

Why the hell would we want you in the movement of libertarians & traditional conservatives (namely, the opposite of people like you, Wendy, etc.)? You want to screw over the people that I listed who share Ron Paul's ideas.

Joe Shmoe| 1.8.09 @ 4:15PM

ruth, I'm sorry to say that you really, really need to look in a mirror.

Why single me out? Because I pointed out the absurdity of your written words? Honestly, I didn't post here to upset you or anyone else. I posted because most of this "discussion", as you recognized, is absurd, with emotional drivel all over the place (which you started, and your comrades perpetuated, even if it was for "fun") and I was trying to point out the same thing as you! I agree with you that there are many posts here that are irrelevant. Problem is, almost all of your posts are in the same category!

So please, if you are going to lecture at least don't be hypocritical. You are so beyond transparent in that all one has to do is look at your previous posts to know that you are talking out your, using your own term, "horse's butt".

If you ~really~ want to have a dialog then STOP insulting people in nearly EVERY ONE of your posts! That, my friend, is the most basic "social skill" that a rational person can possess! I HIGHLY suggest that you take your own advice.

BTW, if you are making a sarcastic or "fun" comment, most people use LOL or ;) Try it sometime, it may save you from having to defend you own words.

Wiglaf| 1.8.09 @ 4:18PM

Ruth says: "I was joking with someone I knew on AmSpec...so understand that you're going to get it back."

Is that how you describe it, Ruth? Well, if you were joking you should say so and not continue to "joke" while making rather vicious statements. Your statements of giving "back" only make you look like what you accuse others of being: petty, racist, stupid, moronic, thin-skinned, vicious, hater of free speech, and a hater of liberty and those who espouse it. The only question that remains is, does your face look like a horse's butt? Feel free to post a link to a picture of your face so we can all reach our own conclusions on the matter.

Wiglaf| 1.8.09 @ 4:20PM

LOL

Eric D.| 1.8.09 @ 5:02PM

I agree with Wendy that anyone who doesn't support Israel are Jew haters and by their very nature, racists.

Israel needs to wipe out all of those islamofacists. That's why I supported McCain and that's why Ron Paul failed.

E. Dondero

Eric D.| 1.8.09 @ 5:02PM

Ruth is right. You guys need to straighten up because there are more of us than there are of you.

Gabe| 1.8.09 @ 5:03PM

letter to all self-proclaimed "Conservatives"...8 years after Bush and a republican majority on both houses came into powere we have double teh national debt triple the federal budget and one or two trillion dollar a year deficits.

Many of the Ron Paul supporters knew this was coming because we saw the son of a CIA head who lied about tax increases and created massive new spending programs. We saw that even Reagan oversaw massive increases in spending and a doubling of the SS payroll taxes. We saw that Bush 1 was in the trilateral comission and we knew his son's buddies were of the same big world government, fabian socialist intellectual heritage.

He fooled some good(but naive) conservatives into supporting him and now you people act surprised that when he does stuff like supports global wamring CO2 legislation.

Forgive us for not understanding why you disrespect a man who wants you to pay less taxes and doesn't think you should have to pay to support a war 3000 miles away.

We understand that some naive conservatives ACTUALLY believed Bush wanted to "Spread democracy"...but in fact it was private property rights that made our coutnry great not some ridiculous popularity contests where the losers have there wealth confiscated by the victors. We believe that we can best spread freedom by actually respecting individual rights int his country ,thus prospering and then having other countries follow our example.

The strategy of haphazardly bombing various groups of unfortuante peasants around the world and taxing americans to fund the bombings which enrich military contractors and international bankers who facilitate the financing does not strike me as a legitimate path to spreading freedom around the world.....If anything it is jsut a path to destroy our leading beacon for freedom under a mountain of high taxes and debt held by China,Russia, Saudi Arabia etc

When we make these points and the only response is that "you guys must be anti-semites or kooks"...well that does not reflect well upon the intellect of the average conservative.

ruth| 1.8.09 @ 5:10PM

You're not hurting me, I don't know you and I don't care what you think of me. But you are hurting the movement you claim to care about so much. Why haven't you addressed my remarks regarding Freedom of Speech Rights? Because you have no answer. Fringe groups come and go--and so will yours. You are angry, reactionary people and your group will cease to exist. I would never be a member of a group of haters like you. You're just the latest incarnation of the KKK. (Maybe not Dr. Paul--but you little kooks.)

Wiglaf| 1.8.09 @ 5:31PM

Ruth says: "But you are hurting the movement you claim to care about so much. "

Speak for yourself.

Ruth says: "You are angry."

Again, speak for yourself. You are obviously emotionally driven, and not driven by reason and logic.

Ruth says: "I don't care what you think of me. "

Really? Then why bother responding with your little hate messages over and over and over again?

LOL. BTW, still waiting for that pic.

Tommy| 1.8.09 @ 6:16PM

Eric D. -
You're just pissed off that Ron Paul fired your sorry ass.

Ruth -
You are clearly a natural-born bitch. And people who share your views are the latest incarnation of Hitler's Nazi Party. The only difference is that your fellow neocons are even more bankrupt in terms of intellect and morality.

PoliticalWatcher| 1.8.09 @ 7:26PM

interesting how I left a very long comment apologizing to Ruth this morning but the Blogger deleted my comments.
Why would he do that?
I swear that the goal of this blogger is to divide conservatives and it seems someone is writing in a few different names and acting as a Ron Paul supporter and sometimes as a Ron Paul hater to cause a brawl
by the way Philip I could easily ask one of my friends to post so dont try to divide us

Philip Klein| 1.8.09 @ 8:29PM

Who? Me? Why would I want to do that? Just because I'm a liberal disguised as a neo-conservative doesn't mean I'd want to divide people and start a "brawl" among all you schmucks.

Adam| 1.8.09 @ 9:15PM

Ruth-

I agree with you that some of the bloggers' characters may be suspect. Thank you for not including Dr. Paul in this category. I can assure you that he would never be so irrational. He would see it as a waste of time.

The whole idea of name calling doesn't really make sense to me. I do not understand the progress that this makes when we have so much at stake. All this does is create a never ending circle of "he/she said this." Therefore, he she is a %*&(fill in the blank).

Like you said Ruth, does it really matter what people think of you? You and I know that you are reasonable and compassionate, period.

That being said, I do not know how I can argue some bloggers' belligerence. It is your right to feel that we need to endlessly support Israel by all means necessary. However, I can assure you that we will never have peace.

No matter how you look at it, peace can only be accomplished by its own means. Peace can not be forced by submission, certain individual's rights always end up neglected, which is an infringement on their right to live freely. So long as that continues, peace will never be met and violence will persist.

People will argue," if we lay down our weapons Hamas will wipe us out!" or vice versa, this only ensures that this conflict continues. With this point of view, war is endless. It creates a never ending circle of violence. We need to trust in human compassion. If we give in to evil, it will only prevail.

Most importantly, the nation with the superior military(U.S.), needs to set a better example. We need to lead by example and others will follow. We need to believe that freedom works.

The enemy here is not us as individuals and our right to live free of oppression. The enemy is the tyrants controlling us and trying to tell us how to live. Trying to tell us that Democracy is best or whatever rule of government applies. These are the oppressors. These are the ones that have us enslaved to their will.

We are all in it together and all have the same fundamental wants; to live freely. The voices of the people are stronger than any army. We just have to use our power to rid us of this oppression. "Nothing can stop an idea whose time has come." That idea is freedom. Lets work together people. We have the power of the internet in our hands. We all know that mainstream media, newspapers and networks are biased. They ignore the facts. We agree on that. Spread the idea of freedom and soon enough, everybody will be addicted and will join the fight. They cannot stop the will of the masses.

Freedom is the one thing we all have in common. This is what Dr. Paul preaches. Freedom works. Enough said.

Joe Shmoe| 1.8.09 @ 10:25PM

ruth, I have no problem discussion your comments on Freedom of Speech but I'm not sure what comment you are referring to. The only one I could find is the following, but I don't know specifically what you are asking:

ruth | 1.8.09 @ 2:37AM

Oh, by the way, DaveM--screw you! I'll say whatever the hell I please about Paul. Ever hear of Freedom of Speech? Since you people are so damned serious about your Constitution and Bill of Rights, and all. Or in your case is it 'rights for me and not for thee?" Hypocrite.

Janelle| 1.9.09 @ 8:50AM

I totally agree with Ron Paul. We do not get fair and balanced news in the USA..it's all slanted towards Israel's favor. I am a Christian Conservative. I wonder if the Christians on this thread realize there are 50,000 Palestinian CHRISTIANS living in Gaza and the West Bank?? Israel is OVER the top this time...targeting women and children. Do you realize how tiny Gaza is? Israel is smaller than New Jersey. I hope the Christian Conservatives wake up. I'm sure the usa will be blamed again and we will get more blowback. Thanks neo cons.

Janelle| 1.9.09 @ 9:36AM

There are some misconceptions going on here.
Those who occupy the Holy Land in 2009 and since 1945 are not semetic people, but Eastern European jews who are really not religious but bolshevik trotskyites. (communists) Anti semetic would be a hatred for the arabs who are semetic folks.
I am a Christian and i know the Bible. The Israelites were dispersed by God for disobedience..remember the Lost Tribes? They are still lost.
If the Christians on this thread would go back to the Bible and read the history of the Israelites...then you can understand what is going on. Sure, at one point God said "chosen people" and there was a covenant...but because of disobedience, not following the Law and worshiping golden idols...and following the Talmud rather than the Torah..the covenant was broken. The new covenant was with Jesus Christ, the Messiah, who condemned the Talmudic Pharisees...remember? They crucified Him...and were kicked out again. These ashkanazis, who are secular and not religious, used the "promise" for a land grab. Theodor Herzel, who started the zionist movement, was a communist atheist..and simply used the religion of Judaesm, for his agenda. That's history...not hate. I hope my Christian brothers and sisters will come back to sanity. To be truthful, the remenant of the tribe of Judah, married in with the arabs or converted to Islam. Many of them became followers of Christ...that's why there were so many Christians living in that land who were also kicked out by the ashkanazis. One more thing...Judaesm is a religion not a race..so applying the term "racist" is incorrect. Christians are not a race and neither are jews.

Janelle| 1.9.09 @ 9:37AM

There are some misconceptions going on here.
Those who occupy the Holy Land in 2009 and since 1945 are not semetic people, but Eastern European jews who are really not religious but bolshevik trotskyites. (communists) Anti semetic would be a hatred for the arabs who are semetic folks.
I am a Christian and i know the Bible. The Israelites were dispersed by God for disobedience..remember the Lost Tribes? They are still lost.
If the Christians on this thread would go back to the Bible and read the history of the Israelites...then you can understand what is going on. Sure, at one point God said "chosen people" and there was a covenant...but because of disobedience, not following the Law and worshiping golden idols...and following the Talmud rather than the Torah..the covenant was broken. The new covenant was with Jesus Christ, the Messiah, who condemned the Talmudic Pharisees...remember? They crucified Him...and were kicked out again. These ashkanazis, who are secular and not religious, used the "promise" for a land grab. Theodor Herzel, who started the zionist movement, was a communist atheist..and simply used the religion of Judaesm, for his agenda. That's history...not hate. I hope my Christian brothers and sisters will come back to sanity. To be truthful, the remenant of the tribe of Judah, married in with the arabs or converted to Islam. Many of them became followers of Christ...that's why there were so many Christians living in that land who were also kicked out by the ashkanazis. One more thing...Judaesm is a religion not a race..so applying the term "racist" is incorrect. Christians are not a race and neither are jews.

WendyG| 1.9.09 @ 10:33AM

Judsiam is both a people and a religion. The term anti-semitic is not just the term semitic with the word anti tacked on, so as to be able to make the idiotic argument that if you are anti-Israel or hate Jews you can't be called anti-semitic because Arabs are "semitic."

The term anti-semitic was specifically coined to describe Jewhatred.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism#Evolution_of_usage_as_a_term

A cadre of paleo-con types have showed up on this forum this week. All most of them have done is revealed their animus toward Jews and/or Israel, and by default, *their support of Hamas.*

I posted this on another thread and I'll post it here too. Hamas is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Mad Mullah of Iran, who in no uncertain terms wants the destruction of Israel. That's why the Egyptians and Jordanians have pretty much supported Israel in this. Egypt in particular, because Hamas is a breakaway of the Muslim Brotherhood. A cell of Muslim Brotherhood was responsible for the murder of Anwar Sadat. Know who else is Muslim Brotherhood? Ayman al-Zawahiri, who, along with Bin Laden, is responsible for 9-11, and to this day is on the run with him.

Hamas is not a group of freedom fighters. They are violent Islamic Jihadists, who reject Israel's very existance and have no intention of making peace. Our new President will find that out, as all American Presidents do when they get in the trenches and try to make deals with these killers. These are types that murdered our Marines in Beirut, blew up the USS Cole, attacked our embassies in the Sudan, and brought their hatred to our shores on 9-11.

They don't do these because of something we did, but because of who we are. Free, democratic, open. That is proven by the fact that their attacks have taken place is such disperate places as India and Bali, where the Israeli Palestinian conflict is irrelevant.

Joe Shmoe| 1.9.09 @ 11:41AM

"They don't do these because of something we did, but because of who we are. Free, democratic, open. That is proven by the fact that their attacks have taken place is such disperate places as India and Bali, where the Israeli Palestinian conflict is irrelevant. "

Huh? If Mexico had "settlements" in Texas, and they controlled both the areas that the settlements were in and the roads coming and going to the settlement, how do you think we would feel? Would we want to take back "our" land? Would we be satisfied with not being able to drive on certain roads because they were controlled by Mexico? And if Canada was sending Mexico money and weapons, giving them the ability to continue to oppress, just maybe we might get a little angry at Canada too?

I find the mentality that they hate us because we are free to be the most absurd, idiotic concept that has ever been peddled to the public. Seriously, think about that for a moment. You are saying that terrorists attack because they are jealous, or possibly that the hate the concept of freedom? NO! They hate us for our ACTIONS, the things that we DO. Ideals don't drop bombs. Actions do.

And to think that if someone disagrees with you, disagrees with the ACTIONS of Israel, then they are somehow racist? Frankly, I don't even know how to respond to that without sounding demeaning.

Silverwing| 1.9.09 @ 11:48AM

I really don't know why i came back to this post, however here I am. I am Canadian and admire Ron Paul very much; I can't think of anything that anyone could argue against Ron Paul's ideas. The US became a great nation due to a great degree to its constitution. Unfortunately, as people start to feel safe, they relax and their lack of vigilance creates a void filled naturally by those who see opportunities. i hate to use the terms liberals and conservatives because they have more or less become one and the same. I prefer to use the term "libertarians" as it aptly defines what the people subscribing to it stand for: liberty which everyone's right. I would dare say that in the US and Canada, at the very least over 90% of the laws and 90% of civil servants could be eliminated and thus bring back prosperity and advancements to the population. But when you have people, our so called representatives, see their role as a career and vote themselves huge wages and benefits, then we might as well throw in the towel: good bye freedom and liberty. We don't need them anymore; we have big brothers watching over us, not different than in communist regimes. If you have an almost permanent job as lawmakers, then what do you do: you make laws and form agencies and departments and so on and you hire people. You then have a monopoly and unlike a monopoly in the private sector, people don't have a choice; they can't refuse not to patronize this monopoly. How can we ever achieve greatness when the successful person is penalized through taxation and other fees an licenses and the non successful ones rewarded through so called "free" education and millions of other freebies including welfare? It is impossible for a government bureaucracy to be effective and efficient; that's an oxymoron. How many departments/agencies of a government have as their goal to downsize or even eliminate themselves. The people inside these would be plain stupid to do so; it would mean getting themselves out of cushy jobs and benefits almost unparalleled in the private sector. If we had a reduced government, laws and civil service, I would guess that our representatives would probably only need to meet for a few days every quarter or so and people would be free to deal with each other as they see fit. Our governments only role would be to secure our defense and our individual rights. Laws and regulations have never prevented crimes and abuses to be committed. Just think of the drug laws. Is the US or Canada drug free because of laws? Not only are they not but now we have a black market which rises the price of these drugs and cost b/millions to try to control with no success whatsoever. In addition, in the US and many other nations, the central governments don't even own their central banks and their ability to print money out of thin air. So the governments have to go to these banks and borrow money from them and then pay interest on these loans. And if you read the US constitution, only the elected people have the right to issue currencies and income tax is prohibited. And you think we are in a mess? It is only beginning and Obama will make sure the fall happen sooner than later. He is mister big government and big spending out of funds he doesn't have and will need to borrow either abroad or from the private Federal Reserve. At least the USSR, as far as I know, had its own money printing machine. With so many people now losing their jobs, their investments, their homes, who really benefits? Don't you think the few owners of the Federal Reserve Bank suffer from the increase amount of interest they will collect? And have you heard of Representatives, Senators, bureaucrats being laid off or taking cuts in pay and benefits? And we call your and our systems democracies. Try not to pay your income tax, or even not wear a seat belt or buy a license for you cat. And we snickered at the communist nations. So, what Ron Paul, and he is not the only one, is simply stating the obvious. So why would anyone disagrees with him and people like him is beyond my understanding. And why would the Ruth and Wendy of his post so vehemently curse for the lack of a better word Ron Paul and people who supports him and why the name calling (ie horse butt)? What is it in what Ron Paul espouses that they disagree with? Because he said we shouldn't support Israel? He also said we shouldn't be in Irak, does that make him anti Arab too? He said the US should be out of most countries, if not all, where the US has military bases, dies that make him anti German, anti France and so on. If the US was to invade Canada under whatever pretext; don't you think we might get a little upset and hateful? And what are we doing in Afghanistan? Still trying to find Bin Laden? And how many civilians in these two countries have we killed? Who has benefited from 911? The arm industry and lo and behold the central bankers that loan the money to finance these wars. And during the two world wars, these central bankers financed both sides. So do you believe for even just a minute that didn't push for the decisions to enter these wars. If they can control the money and the elected "representatives", I use the term loosely because they certainly do not represent us, well, enough said. So again, to Ruth, Wendy, etal, what is it in Ron Paul's stand that you so vehemently hate even to the point of hating the man?

Sevenster| 1.9.09 @ 3:11PM

The Constitution is just a guide, a living breathing document. Just because there is nothing in the Constitution about giving money to all sorts of countries and having our military all over the world does not mean that we have to follow it word by word.
The founders would have had no idea at the time of such a world we face today.

Listen to Ruth and Wendy. We must ignore the Constitution and support Israel at all costs. Otherwise we lose.

Mr Sideburns| 1.9.09 @ 3:26PM

Wendy, who is saying anything pro Palestine? Everyone here seems to be taking the traditional right-wing conservative stance of staying out of the affairs of other countries. Doesnt matter if that country is Israel, France, Canada, Korea, Australia, or anybody else.

YOU are the one taking up the left-wing big-government position, and YOU are the one who needs to defend your postition.

How can you call yourself a conservative, if you are taking the leftist foreign policy?

WendyG| 1.9.09 @ 3:47PM

I find the mentality that they hate us because we are free to be the most absurd, idiotic concept that has ever been peddled to the public. Seriously, think about that for a moment. You are saying that terrorists attack because they are jealous, or possibly that the hate the concept of freedom? NO! They hate us for our ACTIONS, the things that we DO. Ideals don't drop bombs. Actions do.

*****

Nope. Islamic fundamentalists are out to destroy ANY Western/democratic-style freedoms they can, and states that promote those freedoms. That's why they Bin Laden supported the Taliban. What did women in Afghanistan do that they should be so abused and forced into subservience?

Even moderate Arab states are under siege from Islamic fundamentalists. Certainly not because of anything except a refusal to govern by fundamentalist Islamic rule.

Adam| 1.9.09 @ 4:53PM

Wendy -

I have to disagree with you. Since we neglect to listen to our enemies or to our own CIA for that matter, we miss the reasons they hate us at our own cost.

The reason Bin Laden was able to radicalize so many former moderate Arabs was due to 3 main reasons, which he, our CIA, and the 911 planners pointed out. Our presence on the Arabian peninsula where we interfered with their national sovereignty. Our governments support of oppresive regimes against Muslims all around the world. Especially Arab tyrannies. Our attempts to impose secular state governments which completely undermines the Quran.

You see, muslims do not believe in the idea of seperating church from state. The quran is the law and if you choose to disobey it, you are disobeying Allah. That being said, in the Quran, it is stated that when Muslims are attacked, then it becomes obligatory for all Muslims to defend against the attack; to participate in a defensive jihad.

Since we were over there Bin Laden was able to point out to the Muslim nation that Islam was under attack. There fore, all muslims must obey Allah and defend their religion by jihad. They do not do this out of hate; they do this out of love for their religion. I honestly do not get why this is hard to fathom.

Michael Scheuer was a former CIA agent, who was the chief of the Bin Laden tracking unit during the 90s. His knowledge of Bid Laden and his motives were far superior than most. He informed our intelligence many times of the possibilities of a terrorist attack. He stated all the reasons which I already mentioned and many more. He listened to Bin Ladens words. He reportad that: Osama has been “extraordinarily consistent” — “he stays on message terrifically well” — in requesting our government stop supporting oppressive regimes against Muslims around the world, especially Arab tyrannies. Our government ignored him and the threats at their own consent.

These are the reasons why I strongly disagree that it is our freedoms that cause the hate. The motivations come simply from us being over there. I fear that if we continue to think the way we do, we are inevitably going to cause things to get a whole lot worse.

WendyG| 1.9.09 @ 5:36PM

Since we were over there Bin Laden was able to point out to the Muslim nation that Islam was under attack. There fore, all muslims must obey Allah and defend their religion by jihad. They do not do this out of hate; they do this out of love for their religion. I honestly do not get why this is hard to fathom.

**********
Please. Such terrorism apologia.

One event I forget to mention was the slaughter of the children in Beslan. By Islamofascists. Which had NOTHING to do with the US, Israel, or the Middle East. They murdered children wholesale ON PURPOSE out of love for their religion?? And the recent attack in India. They killed (and tortured) all of those innocent people, out of love for their religion - not hate? Preposterous. Have you seen the photos of what they did to some of the victims? Trust me, you don't want to.

You just don't get it. It's a worldwide jihad against any people or any nation with Western or democratic values or the use of terrorism as a tactic. Murder Inc.

Tommy| 1.9.09 @ 7:12PM

Sevenster -
You are an asshole, just like the other neocons.

Adam, Sliverwing, & Mr. Sideburns -
Trying to reason with a neocon is like trying to reason with a bag of cement. It is pointless.
They enjoy being dumb and ignorant, or they enjoy lying.

Adam| 1.9.09 @ 8:19PM

Wendy-

Agree to disagree then. Can you tell me why our CIA officials would make these points then?

If we continue with your attitude Wendy, war is endless. It just becomes a vicious cycle. People are reasonable and compassionate. If you lose site of this; mankind will surely destroy itself.

WarDog| 1.10.09 @ 5:56AM

Important facts.
He has never voted to raise taxes.
He has never voted for an unbalanced budget.
He has never voted for a federal restriction on gun ownership.
He has never voted to raise congressional pay.
He has never taken a government-paid junket.
He has never voted to increase the power of the executive branch.
He does not participate in the lucrative congressional pension program.
He returns a portion of his annual congressional office budget to the U.S. treasury every year.
He voted against the Patriot Act.
He voted against the Iraq war.
Ron Paul's record:
http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/

Frosty| 1.10.09 @ 8:42PM

Ron Paul might be a good man and have some great ideas, in fact, he might be RIGHT, but it doesn't matter as long as you are over reactive and over emotional. Hate repulses people who would otherwise be interested in Paul's message; your use of obscenities especially shows your immaturity. Guys, you aren't ready for primetime and you are obviously products of our wonderful public school system. You don't perform well in critical thought. PaulTards.

Tommy| 1.10.09 @ 9:59PM

WarDog -
That is exactly what Wendy wants. She wants to see more U.S. troops killed to satisfy her neocon allies.

Frosty -
You're one to talk. It is people with your neocon mentality that inspire so much hate.

Frosty| 1.10.09 @ 10:52PM

Look at all of the hate you've inspired on just this one thread. Good going!

Wiglaf| 1.11.09 @ 12:08AM

WendyG,
Based on your definition of "anti-semitic", you can logically conclude that unless you are of the Jewish faith, you ARE anti-semitic. By that definition, the "jews" would consider you an unwashed "gentile" and opposed to their beliefs.

The problem here is that if this is your definition of "anti-semitic" (whatever wikipedia says), then you either agree with the Jewish religion or you're a racist. You're either for them or against them. I find this an extremely simplistic, childish, and idiotic view of race and religion.

However, if you you choose to refer to me as anti-semitic, fine. Just remember that I'm not racial anti-semitic per the wikipedia definition. After all, I am a Christian. It would be almost equivalent to being a black white supremacist as to be a Christian and racial anti-semitic.

Truth be told, I doubt even Philip Klein believes in the zionist eschatology of the contemporary believing jew.

Anti-Zionist| 1.12.09 @ 12:01PM

Wendy blathers:
"One event I forget to mention was the slaughter of the children in Beslan. " By Islamofascists.

- How about Sabra and Shatila? By Judeofascists?

Wendy: "
"They murdered children wholesale ON PURPOSE out of love for their religion?? "

- How about the whole slaughter of innocent Palestinians? I know they don't equal the precious Jew in your eyes, but what is the difference? Got an answer for that?

Wendy shrieks:
"You just don't get it. It's a worldwide jihad against any people or any nation with Western or democratic values or the use of terrorism as a tactic."

- Baloney! Until Jews started stealing lands that were not theirs in that region, there weren't any jihads! Never heard of jihads until the later part of the 20th Century, when you guessed it, Israel and the US starting pushing people around in the region!!!

Wendy mentions:
"Murder Inc."

Joe Shmoe| 1.12.09 @ 12:06PM

Frosty, did you happen to read the thread from the beginning? The "Paultards" did not initiate the school yard name calling - those who did know who they are. But I do agree that when attacked the passion that most "Paultards" have can come out negatively instead of constructively. But when the emotional stuff drops off and you are left with those who are truly willing to have a meaningful discussion you will find that it is the ~ideas~ that really matter. Not just the ideas, really, but the logical conclusions that can be drawn from them. Again, in order to get to that point you have to let go of any emotional attachments you have to your current ideology and truly listen to the ideas that Dr. Paul has contributed. I'm sorry to say that people on both sides of the discussion are usually far too emotionally invested to give the other side a look.

Bottom line is that many people here complaining of the juvenile rhetoric should be looking in a mirror. Let it go, then we can have a nice, intelligent discussion. See Adam's responses above. Even dealing with the emotional baggage from other responses in this thread he manages to keep on point. Kudos to him for that.

Frosty| 1.12.09 @ 12:39PM

JShmoe, obsession can be dangerous to your mental health. Chill out and get over it. Lastly, get a life.

Joe Shmoe| 1.12.09 @ 1:25PM

I finally get it Frosty. Your job here at AS is to do the exact opposite of what you write. Complain that people are immature, then call them a name. Right. That makes a whole bunch of sense.

I need to get a life? Wow. OK, you got me on that. Whew, thanks for showing that your maturity level is more than a fifth grader.

Frosty| 1.13.09 @ 12:00AM

Let me explain it more clearly so that you can understand , JS, obsession is a sign of mental illness. All the signs are there, dude.

Joe Shmoe| 1.14.09 @ 10:07AM

LOL, Frosty - you took the bait and came back to respond! SET UP - Gotcha!

So, who's the obsessed one? LOL

Kat| 1.14.09 @ 2:03PM

Joe Shmuck fits better.

Leigh| 1.14.09 @ 6:51PM

The wisest man in Washington. For those whose called him names, everything he said would happen IS happening. If you stop look and listen to every detail of his speeches & his writings you will find he is the only on that would have been able to get America back on track. But have it your way!! Let the bankers steal all your money, real estate, & banks, jobs. If you listen to him!!! Ending the fed is the only way to get America out of this mess. Take a look at this & search for more. America has been asleep.
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=5420753830426590918

Mariam| 1.14.09 @ 9:16PM

PHILIP KLEIN!? We're supposed to trust a supposedly unbiased opinion written by a ZIONIST over the ZIONIST invasion of GAZA!? Come on now!

Let's read HAMAS' opinion while we're at it! How about the SON of a ZIONIST TERRORIST:
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2008/06/05/son_of_a_zionist_terrorist_rahm_emanuala

True Conservative| 1.14.09 @ 10:14PM

Russell Kirk, a real conservative (I doubt many neo-cons today even know who he was) , once said of neo-cons that:

"[T]hey have been rash in their schemes of action, pursuing a fanciful democratic globaIism rather that the national interest of the United States; on such occasions I have tended to side with those moderate Libertarians who set their faces against foreign entanglements. And not seldom it has seemed as if some eminent Neoconservatives mistook Tel Aviv for the capital of the United States - a position they will have difficulty in maintaining, as matters drift in the Levant."

I, just like Kirk, question which country the loyalty of neoconservatives lays with.

14/88

Jonathon B| 1.14.09 @ 11:10PM

Let's try to not open our minds and consider other possibilities. Wouldn't want to actually accomplish something with our so called politics would we?

Everyone here thinks he/she is right. It's really funny. I'm actually laughing right now. It's not like anyone here actually knows what the hell is going on over there, so stop with all the criticism of each other.

JoMend| 1.16.09 @ 1:37PM

Adam,

For people like Wendy your comment above is kind of the point - endless war. They seek out war and all its destruction because they don’t believe they will be here to suffer from it – they just need to inflict it. One day they will all go "poof" and be gone from the misery they helped create.

And Adam your constant attempts to put forth a rational and informed argument just reveal your true nature – you are in fact a jewhater. Aren’t I right Wendy?

(Actually thanks Adam for your posts, they are informative and I don’t think you are a hater of anyone.)

Frosty| 1.19.09 @ 7:51PM

Actually, JoMend, you are the hater. Clown.