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Another Perspective
Ten Years Without Saddam
Was getting rid of him worth it?
Ten years after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, the costs of the war are quite familiar. But in focusing on what was lost, we often lose sight of what was won.
To start with the obvious, Saddam Hussein is gone. That’s no small thing. It’s not just that Saddam was one of the most vicious mass murderers of his era — though it’s important to remember that he was, and that the horror of the past decade in Iraq still hasn’t matched his totalitarian regime’s body count — it’s that his unpredictability made him especially dangerous. That’s the flipside to the intelligence failures in the run-up to the war: If it was so hard to tell that Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction program was moribund, it would have been just as hard to predict his behavior had he been left in power for the past decade, enriched by the failure of the sanctions regime (remember the bad joke that was Oil-for-Food?) and rising oil prices driven by Chinese and Indian demand. Restarting his WMD program, funding international terrorism, further military adventurism — one could never tell with Saddam.
Some see Saddam Hussein’s loss as Iran’s gain. Yes, the current Iraqi government’s policies tend to be more congenial to the Islamic Republic than Saddam’s were, but the picture is more complicated than that. A murderous anti-American loose cannon like Saddam was never an ideal ingredient for a stable balance of power. And because the current government of Iraq isn’t an international pariah, oil production is higher now than it has been since before the first Gulf War; with less Iraqi oil on the market, sanctions on Iran would be a much tougher sell in Europe.
Iraq is still a violent place; the Iraqi government is dysfunctional and has grown less genuinely democratic. Elections in Iraq did, as President Bush envisioned, change the politics of the region, but the illiberalism of the people who’ve thrived at the ballot box has created new challenges. But none of this should make anyone nostalgic for Saddam Hussein.
But the war wasn’t just about Saddam Hussein. Iraq became the central front in the war against al Qaeda, and it was the ideal place to open that front. Iraq loomed large in Osama bin Laden’s 1998 declaration of war. His first grievance was that “the United States is occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of its territories, Arabia” — that is, he objected to the Saudis hosting U.S. troops, the linchpin of the policy of containment toward Saddam. Bin Laden’s second grievance was that the U.S. had gone to war with Iraq and might do so again. It was natural that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi’s branch of al Qaeda would meet the U.S. on the battlefield in Iraq. As with the other factions that emerged after the invasion, American policymakers weren’t really prepared for this, but, with the course correction that was the surge, eventually managed to deal with it.
Thousands of young men came to Iraq to join Zarqawi’s jihad, and died there. If there were no occupation of Iraq, how many would nonetheless have had an enthusiasm for killing Americans? It’s likely a nontrivial number who, absent the invasion of Iraq, would have made prime recruits for al Qaeda attacks elsewhere — perhaps on U.S. assets abroad (like the embassies in Kenya and Tanzania or the USS Cole), and perhaps on America itself.
There have been numerous foiled terror plots since 9/11, but the successful major attack that most of us were expecting never came; credit a mixture of good counterterrorism and good luck, but also credit the men and women who lost friends, limbs, and lives taking the fight against al Qaeda to Iraq for making the pool of terrorist recruits smaller and a successful attack less likely. In other words: Yes, the Iraq War made us safer.
The cost in blood, treasure, and U.S. credibility was greater than anyone anticipated. The mistakes along the way were nearly catastrophic. The Iraq War was, no doubt, a Pyrrhic victory. But it was a victory nonetheless.
About the Author
John Tabin is a frequent contributor to The American Spectator online.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (130) | Leave a comment
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Jack in Wi| 3.19.13 @ 6:32AM
Iraq was a total disaster for both the Iraqi and American people. Hussain was kept under control for peanuts. He had been our ally for years. He was a secular muslim where women had rights. Christians could practice their faith freely. People could get a drink. There were 250 gun stores open in Bagdad alone and people could arm themselves. Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction. Those it had were dismantled and Iraq was under constant inspection both by overflights and ground inspection. 5000 American lives were lost, 50,000 were maimed, and millions of Iraqis were killed, wounded, or displaced. Everyday people are killed in Iraq that would be horror stories in this country. This war has got expected final costs of 6 trillion dollars. Sombody should be held responsible for these lies and crimes. Maybe someday someone will be.
WaffenSS| 3.19.13 @ 8:19AM
Point to Bush or the gang of four. Bush, Chenney, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld. These pieces of shyte belong with Stalin on top of Lenin's tomb waving to the people while thousands are murdered in a cooked up policy tyo enrich weapon makers.
Cpm| 3.19.13 @ 10:40AM
Look in the mirror, Nazi pig.
alice921| 3.19.13 @ 2:45PM
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Anti-Statist| 3.20.13 @ 11:59AM
You idiot.
The libs were all for the war until it got difficult and the 2004 elections were coming up. They then put their electoral ambitions ahead of the war and then acted as if they had predicted the difficulties all along. Which were easily countered lies.
The whole Democrat establishment were all on board with removing Saddam. The 1998 Iraq regime change resolution is proof of that. Need it be mentioned that the existence of WMDs in Iraq were determined during the Clinton Administration?
Bush gave Saddam far too much time to dispose of the evidence, which likely exists in Syria now.
But America is far better off without Saddam than with him. It was foolish of Obama to give away the hard-earned strategic geography so he could look as if he ended the war.
There should be a large U.S. base in Iraq now instead of Germany, due to the geopolitical shift since the Cold War, but no.
Cpm| 3.19.13 @ 10:35AM
Gee Jack, I sure wish you would have piped up with this top secret information in 2002, particularly that gem about WMD, you could have prevented a terrible mistake from happening.
Jack in Wi| 3.19.13 @ 10:47AM
I did pipe up in 2002. It was all the lies that were told at the time that got me writing on the internet. Anyone with any commonsense could see it was all a pile of lies. Iraq was a country that could not feed itself. It had been under embargo and constant inspection both from the air and ground, for over a decade. It was all a power grab by the by the oil lobby and the Israeli Lobby, brokered by Cheney. Ron Paul, Pat Buchanan, and me were right and most of the rest of you were wrong.
hook| 3.19.13 @ 9:10PM
Oil lobby. How did they make money? Explain.
Cpm| 3.19.13 @ 9:16PM
Yeah, we're just rolling in Iraqi oil since we seized all their oilfields.
Anti-Statist| 3.20.13 @ 12:00PM
Pure nonsense, your post.
JP| 3.19.13 @ 3:09PM
Yes, and Iraq was a great place if you were a Baathist (Most Chaldean Catholics were). However, women who didn't toe the line were sent to rape rooms; Iraq had concentration camps for children of parents who dissented. Public executions were a daily event in most cities. And Shia and Kurdish minorities were gassed, executed en masse. Entire villages were razed.
Yes, Iraq under Saddam was a utopia of peace, tolerance and eqaulity.
Purp| 3.19.13 @ 3:48PM
No it wasn't a utopia under Saddam ... but neither is a host of other countries ... are we to invade them all? Should we conquer the world and remake it in our own image?
Have you ever asked yourself - Why this one? Why was THIS one country the target? So important that we let Osama Bin Laden escape who we knew oversaw the attack on 9/11, so we could concentrate on Iraq.
Do you even have a clue?
TLP| 3.19.13 @ 4:27PM
How about - He was in Violation of the Cease Fire Agreement, and WTF. It was as good a place as any, to start Killing These Bastards?
CJW| 3.19.13 @ 5:18PM
Purpie/arnie the Village Idiot posted:
1. "Hurricane Sandy and Chris Christie was the Lord's way of pressing his thumb on the scale to tilt in the direction of President Obama. It was His punishment of Republicans for their lying and trying to cheat (Voter Suppression) their way to political victory, while espousing faith, freedom and constitutional credentials."
2. purpie believes God killed over 100 persons and destroyed millions of dollars of property to help Obama win.
3. In Sept Purpie wrote that Amassador Stevens was at fault and caused his death.
4. Purpie also wrote that the unborn are biological entities not deserving of protection until God allows them to be born.
5. purpie believes that a 20% cut in the tax rate will INCREASE his 0% rate to 8%.
6. purpie also posted one of the female bloggers here should just lay back and enjoy the rape.
He enjoys calling women here "HONEY"
7. purpie is a racist who posted that "You can't even beat a black man....haha," implying blacks are inferior.
Purpie/arnie is a racist and misogynist.
Purp-arnie represents the Loon Left that should be mocked and ridiculed, and not engaged in debate
Joellen| 3.19.13 @ 6:05PM
LOVE YOU CJW - you never disappoint.
hook| 3.19.13 @ 9:11PM
Simple. Every intelligence agency in the world thought they were reconstituting WMDs and remember he used them not only on Iran but on his own people
hook| 3.19.13 @ 9:08PM
Look up the spelling of Saddam's last name...
Name a single lie? MIllions of Iraqis were killed. Hey Moron, even Obama's biggest fan Chris Thrill leg said 190 thousand were killed when the actual total was 30gs.
Stormzeye| 3.19.13 @ 8:57AM
For more than twenty years after the Korean War there was a feeling that it wasn't worth it. Unstable government in South Korea was all we seemed to get for the cost of more than 50,000 lives in a horrific "police action". Today, South Korea is a paradise compared to the north and it's a major contributor to the world's economy. The world would be diminished by its absence.
I think it's too soon to tell whether our efforts in Iraq were worth it but my sense is that for all the reasons cited in this article and more, it was.
loulou| 3.19.13 @ 10:02AM
Koreans are not Muslims living in the dark ages. Can't compare the two.
Jack James| 3.19.13 @ 12:34PM
You are right; the North Koreans are not "Muslims living in the Dark Ages". They are atheists living in the stone age.
hook| 3.19.13 @ 9:13PM
N. Korea might be most repressive govt in hist. It is possible that they truly believe their own propaganda and believe we are about to attack them. 10-15% of their population is in a Gulag
Arnie| 3.19.13 @ 8:57AM
"The cost in blood, treasure, and U.S. credibility was greater than anyone anticipated."
Did the writer forget all the liberals that anticipated all this before the war started?
Plus, he really downplayed the fact that WMDs were by far the biggest main argument that Bush and the Neo-cons were making for the case to go to war.
Arnie| 3.19.13 @ 9:00AM
And the war actually increased the recruitment of terrorists.
Otherwise, this article is a pretty good summation of the Iraq War.
Cpm| 3.19.13 @ 10:37AM
And how many American patriots were created by 9/11? I'd say our patriots kicked their terrorists asses.
Arnie| 3.19.13 @ 5:14PM
ALL YOU GUYS NEED TO READ THIS LETTER FROM A VET TO BUSH AND CHENEY.
dangerousminds.net/comments/dying_vets_fuck_you_letter_to_george_bush_dick_cheney_needs_to_be_read
Cpm| 3.19.13 @ 9:20PM
So a single soldier's opinion is the consensus opinion and the final word? Who's going to pay attention to a fuck you letter? You're still here.
Jack James| 3.19.13 @ 12:37PM
Suggest you read today's WSJ opinion piece by Fouad Ajami. He provides clear reminders on how most everyone, on both sides of the aisle, supported the war.
Purp| 3.19.13 @ 3:49PM
Now there's an unbiased opinion... lmao
JD| 3.20.13 @ 1:21AM
You guys always demand that we take your say-so as fact, but when we provide quotes, data, and other evidence, you ignore it if the messenger is on your "not left-wing enough to read" list.
Anti-Statist| 3.20.13 @ 12:36PM
You don't seem to grasp that "opinion" implies bias.
I suppose you consider your opinions as unbiased ones. Knave.
obadiah| 3.19.13 @ 8:53PM
Campaign Contributors on all sides were lined up to share in the loot
JD| 3.19.13 @ 1:37PM
Wait, Arnie, I'm confused. It was all about WMDs?
I thought it was a war for oil. No, wait, it was because Iraq caused 9/11!
Whichever lie works best for the conversation of the day, eh?
Arnie| 3.19.13 @ 3:22PM
oh yea, JD, all of those are correct. Thanks for reminding me! FOX news and the Bush administration really did spread around a lot of lies to get the war sold to the public.
I never fell for any of it. And I knew their reasons were BS.
Wow. It looks like I've been smarter than you for a long time. Sucker.
Purp| 3.19.13 @ 3:51PM
The Bush Administration had 22 separate reasons for going to war with Iraq.
I'll leave it to you to figure them out... but shouldn't that tell you SOMETHING?
CJW| 3.19.13 @ 5:19PM
Purpie/arnie the Village Idiot posted:
1. "Hurricane Sandy and Chris Christie was the Lord's way of pressing his thumb on the scale to tilt in the direction of President Obama. It was His punishment of Republicans for their lying and trying to cheat (Voter Suppression) their way to political victory, while espousing faith, freedom and constitutional credentials."
2. purpie believes God killed over 100 persons and destroyed millions of dollars of property to help Obama win.
3. In Sept Purpie wrote that Amassador Stevens was at fault and caused his death.
4. Purpie also wrote that the unborn are biological entities not deserving of protection until God allows them to be born.
5. purpie believes that a 20% cut in the tax rate will INCREASE his 0% rate to 8%.
6. purpie also posted one of the female bloggers here should just lay back and enjoy the rape.
He enjoys calling women here "HONEY"
7. purpie is a racist who posted that "You can't even beat a black man....haha," implying blacks are inferior.
Purpie/arnie is a racist and misogynist.
Purp-arnie represents the Loon Left that should be mocked and ridiculed, and not engaged in debate
Anti-Statist| 3.20.13 @ 12:29PM
And only four of those referenced WMDs.
JD| 3.19.13 @ 1:39PM
Arnie wants us to remember all the anti-war Leftists from before the war started, but he desperately wants us to forget all the Republican concerns about the housing bubble in 2003, or the conservative concern about mounting deficits under Bush. He's written both of those things even today.
He wants to win the public argument without a fight by discrediting us with these lies that falsely portray us as hypocrites.
Arnie| 3.19.13 @ 3:23PM
Oh yes, there was huge protests by conservatives in the streets by millions to regulate Wall Street back in 2003.
I remember those days. NOT.
I win again.
JD| 3.20.13 @ 1:22AM
Again, Arnie:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09.....1LEND.html
You need to start demonstrating at least some desire to converse honestly.
TLP| 3.19.13 @ 2:25PM
Actually, I remember all the Liberals DEMANDING a Second Vote on the Resolution for The Use of Force Against Iraq, so they could do it on Television.
Are you EVER right?
Purp| 3.19.13 @ 4:12PM
Yep, those Democrats in 2002 and 2003, they were quite the majority, weren't they? Why they had their way with the entire Republican government, didn't they?
TLP| 3.19.13 @ 4:28PM
THEY VOTED FOR IT!
TWICE!
Arnie| 3.19.13 @ 4:53PM
Let's look at the vote total little boy.
House:
Party Yes Nays PRES No Vote
Republican 215 6 0 2
Democratic 82 126 0 1
Independent 0 1 0 0
TOTALS 297 133 0 3
Senate:
Party Ayes Nays No Vote
Republican 48 1 0
Democratic 29 21 0
Independent 0 1 0
TOTALS 77 23 0
Over half of the Democrats didn't vote for it. And the others voted for it based on a load of steaming pile of "evidence" cooked up by the White House.
But your party....hmmm lock step baby. I bet you were just tickled when that vote happened.
CJW| 3.19.13 @ 5:19PM
Purpie/arnie the Village Idiot posted:
1. "Hurricane Sandy and Chris Christie was the Lord's way of pressing his thumb on the scale to tilt in the direction of President Obama. It was His punishment of Republicans for their lying and trying to cheat (Voter Suppression) their way to political victory, while espousing faith, freedom and constitutional credentials."
2. purpie believes God killed over 100 persons and destroyed millions of dollars of property to help Obama win.
3. In Sept Purpie wrote that Amassador Stevens was at fault and caused his death.
4. Purpie also wrote that the unborn are biological entities not deserving of protection until God allows them to be born.
5. purpie believes that a 20% cut in the tax rate will INCREASE his 0% rate to 8%.
6. purpie also posted one of the female bloggers here should just lay back and enjoy the rape.
He enjoys calling women here "HONEY"
7. purpie is a racist who posted that "You can't even beat a black man....haha," implying blacks are inferior.
Purpie/arnie is a racist and misogynist.
Purp-arnie represents the Loon Left that should be mocked and ridiculed, and not engaged in debate
TLP| 3.19.13 @ 5:49PM
Only ONE Democrat voted against it.
Bernie Sanders.
Arnie| 3.19.13 @ 5:53PM
LIE!!!!
Source please!!
Arnie| 3.19.13 @ 5:58PM
Come on TLP!!! Just give it up boy.
You are getting slammed with FACTS. And now you are resulting to making petty lies all over the place.
Run....run...turn on FAUX news. It will console you and fill your empty head again with more lies once you forget these ones.
Al Adab| 3.19.13 @ 9:25AM
Do not overlook the fact that The War lasted a matter of a few months. The "nation building" operation is what has kept our troops in Iraq without clear mission or purpose for the years since. That, not the war itself, was the policy error.
The destruction of Saddams regime was worth the effort, but the ongoing altruistic attempt to "democratize" a nation and culture which do not have the traditions necessary for such a development is ill founded.
Jack James| 3.19.13 @ 12:39PM
We had a moral responsibility to stay in Iraq once we decided to destroy Saddam's regime. Just like we did in Japan and Germany, neither of which had strong democratic traditions either. I would call our efforts there successes and well founded.
"You break it, you own it"
Al Adab| 3.19.13 @ 1:06PM
Jack:
One cannot compare the traditions of an Islamic nation with those of Germany, a European tradition or with Japan albeit the later had no tradition of democratic government Japan was a culture which respected and followed rather than questioned. The U S continued the traditions of the Japanese while bringing new facets to the national culture. Remember, in the long history of the world, McArthurs' rule is the only successful example of alien occupation.
Moslem nations under Islam are completely immersed in a totalitarian culture of long standing. Islam claims authority over state, religion, justice and military aspects of life and claims a supra national authority. American forces occupied all of North Africa during WWII yet left in place the existing governments and authorities.
The Iraq invasion was to eliminate a threat from the regime, personified today by the chemical weapon attacks in Syria with weapons sent out of Iraq following the invasion. War operations continued until Saddam was captured and should have ended at that point without further military operation. Some oversight of the emergent government would have been in order but ongoing combat operations were ill founded.
We failed to define and limit the action at our great cost. We agree on that, it is simply a matter of the distinction between combat and "democritization" efforts. Wilson failed to make the world safe for democracy yet that tradition of thinking still continues in American minds.
Al Adab| 3.19.13 @ 1:07PM
Long post but complex subject.
nathan| 3.19.13 @ 1:51PM
Point of order Mr. Chairman. Iraq at the time of the invasion was ruled as a secular government not as an Islamic one so your comment regarding islamic governments did not apply to Saddam who did not rule the country under Sharia law. that happened only when "democracy" what Madison called the most vile form of government, was imposed. And no, there never was an WMD's, period.
Al Adab| 3.19.13 @ 2:15PM
nathan:
1: Chemical WMDs were found and many known to have shipped to Syria.
2. Secular Iraq was nonetheless an Islamic state. Dictatorship does not change the nature of the culture. Neither can we.
3. Madison was and remains correct. We should not conduct nation building or democritization efforts.
Again, all I am doing is drawing a distinction between the war and the occupation. One was necessary the other misguided. In fact, the occupation serves as an ongoing distraction from other danger spots around the world. Our dismembered military is too small to respond as needed to those and is wrongly sidelined in Iraq long after it was necessary.
Conservatives said the occupation and ongoing nation building efforts were misguided even during the Bush administration.
TLP| 3.19.13 @ 2:29PM
500 TONS of Yellowcake were FOUND and REMOVED from Iraq, by our Troops.
Look it up.
This idea that Iraq didn't have any Weapons of Mass Destruction is BULLSPIT.
Every Intelligence Service IN THE WORLD said they had'em.
Including, Russia's.
End of Discussion.
Arnie| 3.19.13 @ 4:00PM
Nope. You're WRRROONNG. You got suckered by the Bush administration.
Those far lefty loons were right about your dear little W and the evil oil Cheney.
HA HA! (Pointing and laughing at you because you're such a sucker and fool....like with all the other hyped up bunk theories you hear from FAUX news and Rush Limbaugh)
TLP| 3.19.13 @ 4:29PM
500 TONS of Yellowcake were FOUND and REMOVED from Iraq, by our Troops.
Look it up.
This idea that Iraq didn't have any Weapons of Mass Destruction is BULLSPIT.
Every Intelligence Service IN THE WORLD said they had'em.
Including, Russia's.
Look it up, Dumbass.
Arnie| 3.19.13 @ 5:01PM
I did look it up Dumbass.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07.....01928.html
"The yellowcake removed from Iraq - which was not the same yellowcake that President George W. Bush claimed, in a now discredited section of his 2003 State of the Union address, that Saddam was trying to purchase in Africa - could be used in an early stage of the nuclear fuel cycle. Only after intensive processing would it become low-enriched uranium, which could fuel reactors producing power."
You know.....I think instead of just reading headlines, you should actually read articles TLP.
Arnie| 3.19.13 @ 5:05PM
READ DUMBASS. Your little RedState lie DEBUNKED!!!
http://www.factcheck.org/2008/08/uranium-in-iraq/
TLP| 3.19.13 @ 5:55PM
On July 7, 2008 the American Forces Press Service released a statement of the completion of a classified mission dubbed "Operation McCall" to transfer 500 metric tons of yellowcake at the request of the Iraqi government from Tuwaitha Nuclear Research Center near Baghdad to Canada. Click here to read the story posted on the Department of Defense site.
According to published reports including CBS news, the United States secretly moved a huge stockpile of yellowcake over a two week period, from Iraq to Canada, partly to keep it from falling into the hands of either terrorists or foreign governments such as Iran.
The operation was reportedly more than a year in the making and took three months to execute. It included carrying 3,500 barrels of yellowcake by road from Baghdad, then flying them on 37 military flights to an atoll in the Indian Ocean, then carrying them aboard a U.S. ship bound for Montreal. In all, it added up to more than 500 metric tons of material from Saddam Hussein's nuclear program.
TLP| 3.19.13 @ 5:55PM
Okay, @sshole?
TLP| 3.19.13 @ 5:56PM
And, Flucke You, while you're at it!
nathan| 3.19.13 @ 5:31PM
No, sorry Mr. Chairman but the Russians actually said repeatedly that there weren't any. But who listens to the Russians like what do they know and sorry we found NOTHING. And Saddam was a threat to no one but his own people and honestly if we go around playing white man's burden with everybody who abuses his own people, we'll never stop. And besides, TJ says it's the responsibility of the people being abused to deal with the despot, not outsiders. We have no obligation to go and do it for them. Sorry. Really I am I know "conservatives" love Bush and Cheney, even though they respected the Constitution maybe even less than the current guy does, but really Bush is one of the 5 worse presidents in history, maybe worse than the current guy. Partly because as a GOP'er he had less excuse for his bad behavior.
TLP| 3.19.13 @ 5:51PM
You're just a LIAR.
But, you already know that.
TLP| 3.19.13 @ 5:57PM
On July 7, 2008 the American Forces Press Service released a statement of the completion of a classified mission dubbed "Operation McCall" to transfer 500 metric tons of yellowcake at the request of the Iraqi government from Tuwaitha Nuclear Research Center near Baghdad to Canada. Click here to read the story posted on the Department of Defense site.
According to published reports including CBS news, the United States secretly moved a huge stockpile of yellowcake over a two week period, from Iraq to Canada, partly to keep it from falling into the hands of either terrorists or foreign governments such as Iran.
The operation was reportedly more than a year in the making and took three months to execute. It included carrying 3,500 barrels of yellowcake by road from Baghdad, then flying them on 37 military flights to an atoll in the Indian Ocean, then carrying them aboard a U.S. ship bound for Montreal. In all, it added up to more than 500 metric tons of material from Saddam Hussein's nuclear program.
TLP| 3.19.13 @ 5:57PM
So, stick it up your @ss!
Arnie| 3.19.13 @ 6:00PM
What? His nuclear energy program? Was it usable as a weapon?
And where were the weapons?
Awww, poor TLP...nobody likes the Iraq War anymore.... :-(
JD| 3.19.13 @ 3:27PM
Al Adab makes a strong point, one I used to harp on.
The strategy in Iraq was terrible.
We destroyed everything, leaving chaos. We could have done it so much more cheaply, and left infrastructure intact. Things would have been very different if we had.
Purp| 3.19.13 @ 5:12PM
Papa Bush warned his baby ... and Colin Powell said, "You break it, it's yours" ... It's Bush's mistake completely and totally - helped of course by Darth Cheney...
TLP| 3.19.13 @ 6:00PM
On July 7, 2008 the American Forces Press Service released a statement of the completion of a classified mission dubbed "Operation McCall" to transfer 500 metric tons of yellowcake at the request of the Iraqi government from Tuwaitha Nuclear Research Center near Baghdad to Canada. Click here to read the story posted on the Department of Defense site.
According to published reports including CBS news, the United States secretly moved a huge stockpile of yellowcake over a two week period, from Iraq to Canada, partly to keep it from falling into the hands of either terrorists or foreign governments such as Iran.
The operation was reportedly more than a year in the making and took three months to execute. It included carrying 3,500 barrels of yellowcake by road from Baghdad, then flying them on 37 military flights to an atoll in the Indian Ocean, then carrying them aboard a U.S. ship bound for Montreal. In all, it added up to more than 500 metric tons of material from Saddam Hussein's nuclear program.
loulou| 3.19.13 @ 10:01AM
Was it worth it? No, it was not.
Why are our men dying for Muslims?
We can't even begin to understand the morass of feuds, rivalries, hatreds, etc. that exist in the Muslim world. Saddam kept Iran distracted. They balanced each other out. We went in (for Bush's daddy) and upset the apple cart. Now look at the fine mess we're in.
Al Adab| 3.19.13 @ 12:00PM
Note the events in Syria. Poison gas (chlorine) used against the populace. Where do you suppose Syria got that weapon?
Again, the Iraq war was more than worth it. Weapons and chemical components for WMDs were in fact discovered and it is also known that missiles and other weapons were shipped to Syria immediately following the allied invasion. The ongoing use of troops as social service agents is not. This, not the original invasion and war was the error.
BTW, it was The Left who howled loudest after the liberation of Kuwait about our forces not going on to Baghdad and ousting Saddam.
TLP| 3.19.13 @ 2:34PM
Exactly!
They Blamed the Father for not finishing the Job, and they Blamed the Son FOR Finishing it.
Yet, they said NOTHING when The Rapist Bombed the Serbs, in direct Violation of The Liberal Holy Grail U.N.
And, they said NOTHING when Black Jesus Waged War on a guy who wasn't Bothering Anyone, in Violation of the other Liberal Holy Grail: The War Powers Act.
TLP| 3.19.13 @ 6:00PM
On July 7, 2008 the American Forces Press Service released a statement of the completion of a classified mission dubbed "Operation McCall" to transfer 500 metric tons of yellowcake at the request of the Iraqi government from Tuwaitha Nuclear Research Center near Baghdad to Canada. Click here to read the story posted on the Department of Defense site.
According to published reports including CBS news, the United States secretly moved a huge stockpile of yellowcake over a two week period, from Iraq to Canada, partly to keep it from falling into the hands of either terrorists or foreign governments such as Iran.
The operation was reportedly more than a year in the making and took three months to execute. It included carrying 3,500 barrels of yellowcake by road from Baghdad, then flying them on 37 military flights to an atoll in the Indian Ocean, then carrying them aboard a U.S. ship bound for Montreal. In all, it added up to more than 500 metric tons of material from Saddam Hussein's nuclear program.
Jack in Wi| 3.19.13 @ 4:45PM
loulou: You are 100% right. Congratulations!
TLP| 3.19.13 @ 5:59PM
You know she's a Jew, right?
Anthony| 3.19.13 @ 10:14AM
The Iraq war would have been a far more significant and important victory today for many of the reasons articulated by Mr.Tabin, but for the perfidious American left.
It took the American left about 3 weeks after 9/11, and after the Washington D whores insisted on two war resolutions to show their "patriotic" tough guy bona fides, before they stabbed the war effort in the back.
Lest we forget, the entire war effort was opposed, sabotaged and ridiculed by the American left for the entire duration of the war.
Getting Saddam, a real threat to America and the world, was downplayed by the American left. Efforts by Bush to get Osama were ridiculed as well by the left, with numerous lefties screaming that the human sarifice needed to get Osama, who, they insisted, had been rendered militarily insignificant, was not worth it.
Of course, when the military finally caught up to Osama, suddenly, Obozo had accomplished a war victory worthy of another Nobel Prize.
With their defeatist Mission Accomplished, the left turned their sights onto Afghanistan. General BETRAYUS, liar extraordinaire, so said Madam Hillary, the Butcher of Benghazi.
So now, our troops sit in Afghanistan waiting to run out the clock in Obozo's time table to finally return home.
Two great war efforts to protect America and the world, have crumbled into a morass thanks to the American left.
Bring the troops home now!!!! Anybody serving America overseas under this president is in mortal danger.
nathan| 3.19.13 @ 2:01PM
Again point of order Mr. Chairman. The left had nothing to do with this debacle. It wasn't the "left" that was torturing and abusing detainees in Abu Ghraib sir. It wasn't the left that tied detainees in that prison to shower heads and beat them to death (yes, they did). Was it a "leftist" interrogator who threatened a detainee to bring his kids in and torture them in front of him? In the EXACT same prison where Saddam's people used to do the EXACT same thing. I don't recall the left being involved in ANY of that. And last I looked when Allen West who had ZERO training in interrogation took an Iraqi police officer and let his men beat him up and then conducted a mock execution (that meet your definition of torture sir?) he didn't run for Congress as a liberal democrat. No I don't see any liberals here. And understand AGAIN that at Abu Ghraib, 80 percent or more of the people were guilty of NOTHING. NOTHING. We were abusing innocent people. No I didn't see any liberals anywhere near that.
TLP| 3.19.13 @ 2:39PM
They Voted for The Use of Force in Iraq, TWICE.
Apparently, you were off world at the time.
And, according to you? Parading this Scum around in their Underpants, far outweighs Blowing Them to Bits with a Drone.
You're the perfect Liberal.
You must have Brown Eyes.
Full a Sh*t, up to your forehead.
Anthony| 3.19.13 @ 3:34PM
This just in TLP, the Geneva Convention has overturned its prohibition of parading enemy combatants around in their underpants, ever since it was disclosed that the Nobel Prize winning economist, Paul Krugman, regularly does the same on the campus of Princeton University.
nathan| 3.19.13 @ 5:37PM
Curse all you want, feel free but liberals did not conduct the war, your heros did and the royally screwed it up. And maybe those libs voted for it, but if Bush and Cheney don't push for it, don't demand it then the votes you cite never happen. No this is ALL on them. All the lies, all the nonsense, all the dead, all the wasted money, all the innocent people who were tortured and abused, all for BLOODY NOTHING. Those Christians we get so worked up about in Egypt, I see absolutely nothing said about the Christian community we are directly responsibility for destroying in Iraq, our responsibility because under Saddam, they weren't bothered. No, this is on Bush and Cheney only. They wanted the war, now them them and the "conservatives" who supported it (not me, I knew better thank you along with Pat and a few others) own it, ALL OF IT.
TLP| 3.19.13 @ 6:01PM
On July 7, 2008 the American Forces Press Service released a statement of the completion of a classified mission dubbed "Operation McCall" to transfer 500 metric tons of yellowcake at the request of the Iraqi government from Tuwaitha Nuclear Research Center near Baghdad to Canada. Click here to read the story posted on the Department of Defense site.
According to published reports including CBS news, the United States secretly moved a huge stockpile of yellowcake over a two week period, from Iraq to Canada, partly to keep it from falling into the hands of either terrorists or foreign governments such as Iran.
The operation was reportedly more than a year in the making and took three months to execute. It included carrying 3,500 barrels of yellowcake by road from Baghdad, then flying them on 37 military flights to an atoll in the Indian Ocean, then carrying them aboard a U.S. ship bound for Montreal. In all, it added up to more than 500 metric tons of material from Saddam Hussein's nuclear program.
JP| 3.19.13 @ 3:18PM
"The left had nothing to do with this debacle. It wasn't the "left" that was torturing and abusing detainees in Abu Ghraib sir. It wasn't the left that tied detainees in that prison to shower heads and beat them to death (yes, they did)."
Abu Grahib was run by a company of the Maryland National Guard. It was a mixed gender unit. The prison was commanded by a female Army officer - Brig Janet Karpinski. The abuses occured under the command of a female, and much of the abuses were dished out be female enlisted. And BTW, none of the prisoners died.
And if you wish to talk about abuses, lets talk about some real ones. For instance sending in armed drones into civilian villages and killing 130 civilians in order to get one "person of interest". Oh, but that occured under Obama, the recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize.
nathan| 3.19.13 @ 5:42PM
Sir you're wrong you're just so wrong. It's been widely documented that at least one detainee maybe more but at least one was tied to a shower head beaten to death and done so in such a manner that his face was unrecognizeable. Read books like Torture and Impunity, if you want to know some of what happened. Read Ghost Plane. Read something for goodness sake. Sheesh. And again, as McCoy points out most everyone there, 80 percent easily didn't belong there. Under Geneva we have an obligation to make a speedy determination regarding that. We never did. We were holding innocent people for ages because we bloody didn't care. And abusing them in the process. one of the interrogators wrote a book on his experiences and you c.an't read it without being outraged. He was.
TLP| 3.19.13 @ 6:01PM
On July 7, 2008 the American Forces Press Service released a statement of the completion of a classified mission dubbed "Operation McCall" to transfer 500 metric tons of yellowcake at the request of the Iraqi government from Tuwaitha Nuclear Research Center near Baghdad to Canada. Click here to read the story posted on the Department of Defense site.
According to published reports including CBS news, the United States secretly moved a huge stockpile of yellowcake over a two week period, from Iraq to Canada, partly to keep it from falling into the hands of either terrorists or foreign governments such as Iran.
The operation was reportedly more than a year in the making and took three months to execute. It included carrying 3,500 barrels of yellowcake by road from Baghdad, then flying them on 37 military flights to an atoll in the Indian Ocean, then carrying them aboard a U.S. ship bound for Montreal. In all, it added up to more than 500 metric tons of material from Saddam Hussein's nuclear program.
Anthony| 3.19.13 @ 3:42PM
Coming down off your Meth trip is certainly a bummer eh nathan?
Your historical revisionism is about the only thing that I see in your post that remotely resembles torture. And the only real death that has occured in your post is to the truth, by you.
But in 10 years nathan, we conservatives will still be getting the narrative right about how the Muslim Marxist and Hillary, the butchers of Benghazi, left FOUR Americans to die horrific deaths as they ran for cover for the sake of their pathetic political asses.
nathan| 3.19.13 @ 5:48PM
I challenge you to read "Torture And Impunity" by Alfred McCoy and then come back and tell me again I'm wrong about this. Because I'm not. Read the book. He's very thorough. And you know the problem, torture gets you ZERO. Nothing actionable. What did West get with his mock execution? NOTHING. And yet he's the big hero, Sean had him on all the time last year. Hero? He is by definition a war criminal and if someone had done to his men what he did to that Iraqi he would have thrown the man into Abu Ghraib for maybe a little waterboarding. Who are fooling here? You and others want to defend methods used by the Inquisition used against our men in WWII, that we courtmartialed our own people for in several wars, that were named in bills of indictment at Tokyo FEEL FREE. but it's still torture folks and Cheney is so very very wrong and needs to put the shovel away, he's getting close to China now isn't he?
TLP| 3.19.13 @ 6:02PM
On July 7, 2008 the American Forces Press Service released a statement of the completion of a classified mission dubbed "Operation McCall" to transfer 500 metric tons of yellowcake at the request of the Iraqi government from Tuwaitha Nuclear Research Center near Baghdad to Canada. Click here to read the story posted on the Department of Defense site.
According to published reports including CBS news, the United States secretly moved a huge stockpile of yellowcake over a two week period, from Iraq to Canada, partly to keep it from falling into the hands of either terrorists or foreign governments such as Iran.
The operation was reportedly more than a year in the making and took three months to execute. It included carrying 3,500 barrels of yellowcake by road from Baghdad, then flying them on 37 military flights to an atoll in the Indian Ocean, then carrying them aboard a U.S. ship bound for Montreal. In all, it added up to more than 500 metric tons of material from Saddam Hussein's nuclear program.
hook| 3.19.13 @ 9:16PM
Abu G was an example of two or three American idiots abusing COMMON CRIMINALS and the abuse while unlawful and sent them to jail was NOT hard torture. Period. It was not political in spite of what the MSM says over and over and over.
Anti-Statist| 3.20.13 @ 12:26PM
http://online.wsj.com/article/.....78454.html
Anti-Statist| 3.20.13 @ 12:17PM
Great post.
Mike W| 3.19.13 @ 10:45AM
The invasion cost us 2 trillion dollars, thousands of dead, tens of thousands maimed, to make Iraq a better ally for Iran.
What kind of delusional person asks if it was worth it? That argument was settled years ago.
Oh, and as a bonus the Iraq debacle gave us the Democrat takeover of 2006 and the Barrack Obama presidency.
vtwin| 3.19.13 @ 10:57AM
Today assignment is to identify what YOU consider to be the single Greatest Lie told by Bush or a member of his Administration in the selling of the Iraq War to the American people? There are many to choose from like those concerning the expected costs of the war, the number of troops needed, how long the war will take, or lies from the two BIG lie categories; Saddam’s WMDs programs and Iraq’s ties to al-Qaeda, Osama bin Laden, and 9-11. If ten years hence you need a refresher read the report a committee in the House of Representatives created in 2004 which identified 237 lies or the Senate investigation in 2006 which found a similar number.
House:
http://web.archive.org/web/200.....rd_rep.pdf
Senate:
http://www.emptywheel.net/wp-c.....racy-1.pdf
For me, after 9 years of war, 4,500 dead Americans, 45,000 disabled Americans, and $3 trillion expected cost of the war was Dick Cheney’s “We Will, In Fact, Be Greeted As Liberators.”
Anthony| 3.19.13 @ 1:03PM
Gee vtwin, I was told today's assignment was to figure out how many lies the butchers of Benghazi, namely the Muslim Marxist and Hillary, gave to cover up their dereliction of duty when 4 Americans were killed in Benghazi!!
I guess you're in the wrong class, again vtwin. Yes, you must be in the classroom for the learning disabled, or as they are now labeled, Democrats.
TLP| 3.19.13 @ 2:41PM
500 TONS of Yellowcake were FOUND and REMOVED from Iraq, by our Troops.
Look it up.
This idea that Iraq didn't have any Weapons of Mass Destruction is BULLSPIT.
Every Intelligence Service IN THE WORLD said they had'em.
Including, Russia's.
God, you're an Idiot.
vtwin| 3.19.13 @ 4:22PM
It wasn’t “yellowcake” you found it was a dildo and you didn’t find it in Iraq you pulled it out of Anthony’s butt.
TLP| 3.19.13 @ 6:02PM
On July 7, 2008 the American Forces Press Service released a statement of the completion of a classified mission dubbed "Operation McCall" to transfer 500 metric tons of yellowcake at the request of the Iraqi government from Tuwaitha Nuclear Research Center near Baghdad to Canada. Click here to read the story posted on the Department of Defense site.
According to published reports including CBS news, the United States secretly moved a huge stockpile of yellowcake over a two week period, from Iraq to Canada, partly to keep it from falling into the hands of either terrorists or foreign governments such as Iran.
The operation was reportedly more than a year in the making and took three months to execute. It included carrying 3,500 barrels of yellowcake by road from Baghdad, then flying them on 37 military flights to an atoll in the Indian Ocean, then carrying them aboard a U.S. ship bound for Montreal. In all, it added up to more than 500 metric tons of material from Saddam Hussein's nuclear program.
Anti-Statist| 3.20.13 @ 12:15PM
Are you disagreeing or projecting an erotic fantasy?
vtwin| 3.20.13 @ 3:21PM
Possibly, why does it excite you to think I might not be disagreeing?
JP| 3.19.13 @ 3:23PM
Vwtin,
The total number of wounded US servicemen in Iraq through July 2012 is 33,000. Therefore your number of 45,000 disabled Iraqi vets is obviously false.
JD| 3.19.13 @ 3:31PM
I expected no less from you, vtwin - a selection as "biggest lie" of something that was actually true!
We were greeted as liberators. By a lot of people But expectations were way too high, and when things didn't go well due to the terrible war strategy, public opinion turned against us.
http://floppingaces.net/2008/0.....iberators/
Michele San Pietro| 3.19.13 @ 11:39AM
Yes, in my opinion it was worth getting rid of Saddam, without a doubt. It's always worth eliminating such murderous and dangerous dictators.
Anti-Statist| 3.20.13 @ 12:14PM
Removing Saddam was the right thing to do.
And we made mistakes in Iraq, there's no doubt. That's a given in any war. Were the mistakes as bad as, say, Tarawa? No, not even close.
Thomas Paulick| 3.19.13 @ 1:44PM
I don't think it's fair to call this a Pyrrhic victory, which would imply that it was a disastrous failure over the long run. Everything you wrote about the positive consequences of the invasion is true. What you wrote about the costs being (much) higher than anticipated is also true. We could stop there, and it would still be a victory -- a disappointingly limited victory, a costly victory, but an unambiguous and vital victory nonetheless.
But there was a time in US history when we understood morality and felt its demands much more than we do now. Besides all of the positive outcomes you noted, there are also no more kids being tortured by the government while their parents are forced to watch; no more Kurds being gassed and no more Shia being mowed down by the thousands with machine guns from helicopters; no more rape rooms; no more hands being amputated for disapproved financial transactions; no more Iraqi Olympians being tortured for losing their contests; no more tongues being cut out of political opponents; no more people being fed alive into industrial shredders; no more...
On the "right", most of the execration of GWB and the Iraq project come from economic libertarians -- the Rand Paul crowd. We can't do anything for foreigners for purely moral reasons because MY MONEY. And after we establish that securely, the government can't do anything to benefit our own countrymen because MY MONEY.
TLP| 3.19.13 @ 6:03PM
On July 7, 2008 the American Forces Press Service released a statement of the completion of a classified mission dubbed "Operation McCall" to transfer 500 metric tons of yellowcake at the request of the Iraqi government from Tuwaitha Nuclear Research Center near Baghdad to Canada. Click here to read the story posted on the Department of Defense site.
According to published reports including CBS news, the United States secretly moved a huge stockpile of yellowcake over a two week period, from Iraq to Canada, partly to keep it from falling into the hands of either terrorists or foreign governments such as Iran.
The operation was reportedly more than a year in the making and took three months to execute. It included carrying 3,500 barrels of yellowcake by road from Baghdad, then flying them on 37 military flights to an atoll in the Indian Ocean, then carrying them aboard a U.S. ship bound for Montreal. In all, it added up to more than 500 metric tons of material from Saddam Hussein's nuclear program.
axbucxdu| 3.21.13 @ 7:08PM
Progs to the left, progs to the right. You can always count on a prog to spend other people's money. Yeah, it's about MY MONEY! you doofus. You know why people like you are the pits? Because you know better, you know that these crusades cannot continue economically. You refuse to count. Take your simpering elsewhere.
nathan| 3.19.13 @ 2:11PM
Okay, first let's go into the history of this. At the end of WWI the Versaille Treaty, maybe the worst every in history goes into effect. The noble French and British decide to carve up the Ottoman Empire, not to "civilize" the savages, but simply to steal their resources. No White Man's Burden here, just plain, we want what you got, we don't feel like paying you for it, don't like it too bloody bad. Now under 500 years of Ottoman rule there is no "Iraq" or anything remotely close to it. They were too smart to put shias, sunnis, and kurds in the same administrative unit. But the British? Like they did so many places, they didn't care, they just wanted the oil so now Mesopotamia becomes "Iraq". (We see the lunacy in Africa where lines are drawn that bear no relationship to reality. Rwanda anyone? With similar results.) Now the villages are not really crazy about being under new management so they revolt, something they have every right to do by the way. It is their land. I mean what right did the British have to it? NONE So, Churchill Air minister under George, authorizes poison gas attacks from the air to minimize British deaths. So the FIRST WMD use in the region isn't the evil jihadists, it's the noble westerners killing women and children. Wonderful.
nathan| 3.19.13 @ 2:19PM
During the embargo Albright talked casually about 50K dead children as a result of our action. Even if it was just 10K or 5k how do we justify that? If anyone was involved in the deaths of even 10o of our kids, how would we react?
So we finally invade. Results? 5K dead Americans. 100K dead Iraqis minimum. Country in ruins. Christian community, untouched under Sadam totally destroyed after we act. "Democracy" which all the Founders universally detested, brings a sharia based government. Rampant human rights abuses both by their government and us. Because we don't walk it the way we talk it, we mistreat so many people, we create a lot of enemies that didn't exist before who kill more Americans that probably would still be alive today if we behaved better.
Now if any of you call that success, feel free. But that looks like failure to me.
nathan| 3.19.13 @ 2:21PM
Here's what Andrew Bacevich wrote and he's right:
In what has become one of the most momentous stories of the 21st century, the inhabitants of the Islamic world are asserting the prerogative of determining their own destinies. Intent on doing things their way, they are increasingly intolerant of foreign interference. In Iraq and Afghanistan, Washington sought to revalidate an altogether different prerogative, one pioneered by Britain: an entitlement to meddle.
To reaffirm that entitlement after Sept. 11, 2001, the United States sought to demonstrate its capacity to impose its will on its designated adversaries. The failure of U.S. forces to do that — to win clearly and unambiguously — calls any further exercise of that entitlement into question. More to the point, it suggests that the big story of Muslim self-determination is likely to continue unimpeded, whether Washington approves or not. Sure, American troops captured Baghdad and overthrew Saddam Hussein. So what?
Albert Constantine Jr.| 3.19.13 @ 4:34PM
"Here's what Andrew Bacevich wrote and he's right..."
Actually, here's what you wrote. If you can't be trusted to keep your word about what you will do, why should anyone consider your opinion about larger matters?
nathan| 2.21.13 @ 11:03AM
Many of you are going to be delighted because I'm going to hopefully make this my last comment here. We're all repeating ourselves anyway, myself included and it's pointless to keep doing this.
TLP| 3.19.13 @ 6:03PM
On July 7, 2008 the American Forces Press Service released a statement of the completion of a classified mission dubbed "Operation McCall" to transfer 500 metric tons of yellowcake at the request of the Iraqi government from Tuwaitha Nuclear Research Center near Baghdad to Canada. Click here to read the story posted on the Department of Defense site.
According to published reports including CBS news, the United States secretly moved a huge stockpile of yellowcake over a two week period, from Iraq to Canada, partly to keep it from falling into the hands of either terrorists or foreign governments such as Iran.
The operation was reportedly more than a year in the making and took three months to execute. It included carrying 3,500 barrels of yellowcake by road from Baghdad, then flying them on 37 military flights to an atoll in the Indian Ocean, then carrying them aboard a U.S. ship bound for Montreal. In all, it added up to more than 500 metric tons of material from Saddam Hussein's nuclear program.
Anti-Statist| 3.20.13 @ 12:10PM
Bacevich was over-the-top wrong, but he got attention because he opposed Bush.
JP| 3.19.13 @ 3:26PM
Funny you never mention the 45,000 Jews who lived in Baghdad or the 2 million Chaldean Catholics who lived all over Iraq. Other than that your history is totally wrong.
nathan| 3.20.13 @ 9:02AM
Referring to me? Care to point out specifically what I got wrong? You want to defend the British actions in creating Iraq? I mean what was the legal/moral/ethical basis for them replacing the Ottomans as the rulers there? You know they could have just set up trade agreements to buy the oil right? They didn't have to play imperialists and take the place over. And then when the locals rose up in rebellion something I recall us doing against the British once upon a time, I mean seriously what were those Arabs supposed to do be good little "dhimmis"? "Oh noble white folks, we are so grateful that you have come to reign over us. Thank you oh thank you!" Naturally on their knees in front of the British while saying all this right? Oh who are we kidding! Noble? Noble when the the RAF rained down poison gas that as authorized by as someone here called him, the greatest man of the of the century on those women and children in those villages? Where pray tell did I get any of this wrong sir?
Occam's Tool| 3.21.13 @ 7:26PM
Nathan: no one will remember you or me. But Winnie will be remembered for a millenia or more. He BEAT the Nazis, and warned about them.
The Iraqis were much better off with the Brits in charge of them than their own leaders.
Bandido| 3.19.13 @ 3:17PM
Bush's invasion was a colossal mistake, and could be seen as such at the time. Sadaam was easily controllable. He was a non-ideological tyrant, interested only in feathering his nest, and provided a bulwark against our true ideological enemy, Iran. Here was a clear balance of power calculation that Bush was too obtuse to make. Compounding his mistake was the attempt to nation-build in a faraway country of which he and his advisers knew nothing. In prosecuting the war, Bush performed a grave disservice to the American national interest. The effects will be felt for a century.
Anti-Statist| 3.20.13 @ 12:08PM
Yours is a conclusion in search of justification, and you miss, badly.
Jane Chingo| 3.19.13 @ 4:59PM
"I shot my leg off, but hey, I know my gun works," is that about it? Geez. Using your logic, who's to say that if we hadn't invaded, Saddam would have had a heart attack and died anyway in 2004?
Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 3.19.13 @ 7:30PM
The human cost of the Iraq war is over 50,000 combatant deaths from both sides (including over 4500 American military personnel and another 1500 contractors) and over 150,000 civilian deaths with estimates going as high as a million. As for the geopolitical implications of the Iraq war...we replaced a Baathist (Pan Arabist), quasi socialist secular regime with a Shia dominated Iraqi government that politically leans in favor of its fellow Shia in the Islamic Republic of Iran. Over a trillion and a half (if not more) of American tax payer dollars spent on the war a good percentage of which was siphoned off by Dick Cheney's war profiteering buddies in Halliburton and other Western firms that make their money doing jobs that used to be done by American military personnel but has now been contracted out. Except for the Iraqi Shia who have finally been liberated from Saddam's regime I don't see how anyone else especially the average American has benefited from the debacle. The Iraq War has been a huge blunder, especially for the Republican Party and it could be very well argued that the average American's disillusionment with the Iraq War directly led to the Republican congressional losses in 2006 and their presidential loss in 2008.
spectatorofthespectator| 3.19.13 @ 8:23PM
If ever a stupid piece of journalism was published here, it is this.
Is a "Phyrric victory" (which with you end your article) anything other than a defeat?
LIES LIES LIES from the Administration (Beny/Chush) of the time and the most craven crafting of 'facts' to fit one's previous mindset. i.e. Colin Powell, who went to the UN to explain our invasion of this land knowing his facts were spurious or contentious or outright lies. This can all be read about if one is curious.
It is a great lesson for the conservative movement that facts are uncomfortable. FACTS, folks. Like climate change. Like same-sex marriage. Like being white and a minority in a world where being white matters little anymore.
It's really uncomfortable, I know. It's time we all awakened and looked at the facts, NOT what we wanted to believe. Otherwise: our lives are individually and collectively IRAQ.
Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 3.19.13 @ 9:45PM
The current liberal (Obama) administration is no less full of lies. Do you really think Libya was anything less than Western Imperialism cloaked as humanitarian intervention? What about Syria where the U.S. government is actively funding, arming and training fanatics to overthrow the secular, pan-Arab state of Syria. What about GITMO where foreign nationals have been detained indefinitely including for over a decade without the United States government making a formal declaration of war against any nation or granting the detainees prisoner of war status. Last but not least the drone strikes which constitute nothing less then the targeted assassination of any individual (including US citizens) the US government deems a threat to its interests (but they don't use the word interests they say National Security to justify any extrajudicial killing).
All though I have deep criticisms of the Wall Street/Neo-Con elitists who wish to make the world safe for Chevron, Coca Cola and McDonalds I have no less contempt for the Western Liberal elitists to whom controlling entire economies in the name of combating climate change or destroying the traditional family through the legitimization and recognition of homosexual unions is no less a religious doctrine and they are actively trying to push this agenda in the United States and through out the world.
Anti-Statist| 3.20.13 @ 12:07PM
Or you could put Occam's Razor to good use and find a way to clear that fog in your head.
Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 3.20.13 @ 2:05PM
There's an Orwellian irony in your username "Anti-Statist" given that you call yourself an "Anti-Statist" but are supporting some of the most egregious examples of unconstitutionally sanctioned state violence in our recent American history. The difference between you and me is I don't see the world and events in the world through the lenses of ideological glasses.
hook| 3.19.13 @ 9:05PM
Mr. Tabin presents a very clear, and coherent comment on Iraq. Many of the "comments" here are virtually irrational.
I am not sure if anyone mentioned how Obama refused to leave residual forces that were recommended by our experts and military leaders so consequently Obama sqandered what had been accomplished.
I will also be pleased but very surprised if this moronic isolationist incompetent president we have -incredibly-follows through on his red line in Syria as it appears they have used chemical weapons.
If it were Obama who attacked Iraq, his base in the media would have been all for it. Right Chrissie?
Jack from WI: Have you ever thought of some serious therapy?
Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 3.19.13 @ 11:01PM
Irrational?...Irrational is bombing, invading and overthrowing a secular, pan-Arabist Iraqi regime (that of Saddam Hussein) who was indeed suppressing fanatical Islamist (because they posed a threat to his power) while we were at the same time fighting a "War on Terror" against those same Islamist forces. That is irrational unless the "War on Terror" was a farce to begin with and the real reason for such a strong military presence in the region was to provide security for the continued exploitation of regional oil and natural gas reserves by Western energy firms. 9-11 just provided an excuse for a campaign that was all ready planned with the added bonus of having strong support among the American populace not unlike how the assassination of the Austro Hungarian Empire's Archduke Franz Ferdinand in Sarajevo, Bosnia in 1914 gave the Germans and the Austro-Hungarians an excuse with wide Imperial support to declare war on Serbia which in large part had to do with a plan to build a railroad from Germany to Baghdad region (which was then part of the Ottoman Empire this was a deal the Germans were working on with the Turks)
to provide a land route for oil deliveries to Germany and Austria.
Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 3.19.13 @ 11:32PM
That railroad was supposed to go through Germany just as over eight decades later Western plans to breakup Yugoslavia and later to steal Kosovo from the former Yugoslav nation of Serbia was largely based upon developing oil and natural gas pipelines through the Balkans that would cut out the Russians. If you thought Western "intervention" against Serbian forces in the 1990's was for strictly humanitarian reasons you better look again at the strategic value of the Balkans and how at the time Yugoslavia was (like Syria) a strong multi-ethnic, multi-confessional state aligned with Russia and the US, UK, French and Germans did then just what they are doing in Syria by fanning the flames of nationalism and religious fanaticism. Indeed we aided neo-fascist Croats and Islamists within the Bosniak Muslim forces just like we are aiding Islamists within the FSA today in Syria.
Anti-Statist| 3.20.13 @ 12:05PM
Yes, we were so focused on the oil that we didn't force upon Iraq a deal for discounted oil to offset the cost of regime change. We were so focused upon getting that oil that we stood by and allowed Iraq put their oil to the world market as opposed to mandating that they direct it to U.S. refineries.
Yep, we did it all for Exxon and Chevron, right?
Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 3.20.13 @ 4:05PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06.....d=all&_r=0
http://www.aljazeera.com/indep.....71641.html
Shell, Exxon Mobile, Chevron, Occidental Petroleum and British Petroleum to be exact.
This was nothing personnel against Saddam...this is just business. Western military adventurism in foreign lands usually is "Just Business".
Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 3.20.13 @ 4:06PM
Here's another article from Forbes in 2012.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ch.....-will-win/
Occam's Tool| 3.21.13 @ 7:23PM
Some disagreement with Mr. Tabin.
First of all, the initial target was wrong. We should have overthrown the Iranian government, as there are numerous Iranian youths who are not in favor of the Mullahs. From THERE, we should have toppled Iraq. This approach would have resulted in a much easier post situation, as the third country on the list of evil Islamic countries would have been Syria, which the Israelis could have smacked down for us in that situation.
But the crux of the problem was IRAN, not Iraq.
Secondly, Nation Building in Islamic countries is a worthless experiment. You can't make bricks without straw, and the KOran is worthless straw.
The purpose is simply to tell scum don't mess with us or we will destroy you. We are NOT the weak camel. Invasion of Iraq may not even have been necessary after Iran was taken down, as Saddam would likely have peed his pants at that point.
Certainly WMD stuff would HAVE been found in Iran. It is also easier to sell this given the frothing of the Iranian government, and the fact that we still owed them a massive beatdown for 1979.
A pyrric victory is a defeat by definition. It is a "victory" that ruins you. Another example of this is Barbarossa.
Occam's Tool| 3.21.13 @ 7:29PM
Again, eliminate the major enemy first, then pick off Iraq at leisure. After Iran was removed as a factor, tell Saddam he has 14 days to avoid the destruction of his gobvernment and his own death, or he can submit to all our demands.