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The Tax and Spend Spectator
Tax Cuts and Duplicity
The next Republican middle class tax cut is in the works, come hell or high fiscal cliff.
Neither President Obama nor any other Democrat ever proposed any middle class tax cut in the fiscal cliff negotiations. All that was ever discussed is continuation of the same middle class income tax rates that have been in effect for 12 years now.
Those income tax rates reflect a middle class tax cut that was adopted by a Republican Congress and a Republican President 12 years ago, which virtually all Congressional Democrats voted against at the time. That is why they are called the Bush tax cuts. President Obama told us when he was running s office that the Republicans only cut taxes for the rich. But now all we have heard is about how we can’t let the Bush tax cuts for the middle class expire.
Also, no Republican ever proposed any tax cut for “the rich” in the fiscal cliff negotiations. The White House rhetoric about more Republican tax cuts for “the rich” in the fiscal cliff talks was so disconnected from reality, especially as reflected in Jay Carney’s rambling and raving, that it is evidence of mental disability or illness. All that the Republicans wanted in the fiscal cliff discussions was to continue the same tax rates for everyone as have been in effect for 12 years now.
Those Bush tax cuts from 12 years ago cut income taxes by a higher percentage for low and middle income workers than for “the rich” (a crass term reflecting low class social envy that has no place in our politics). The top tax rate was cut 11%, from 39.6% to 35%, while the bottom tax rate was cut by 33%, from 15% to 10%.
The Gingrich-Ferrara-Levin Middle Class Tax
Cut
In December 2008, Newt Gingrich and I published
an article in the Wall Street Journal proposing to cut the
middle class tax rate by 40%. We proposed cutting the 25% income
tax rate that then applied to single workers earning $32,550 to
$78,850, and married couples earning $65,100 to $131,450 down to
the 15% tax rate that applied to incomes below that level. More
recently, national radio talk show host Mark Levin has been
proposing a very similar middle class tax cut.
That tax cut would establish a flat-rate tax of 15% for close to 90% of American workers. We said at the time that marginal tax rates for middle-income families in the 25% tax bracket are too high, and that is still true today. Add in effective payroll tax rates of 15% and state income taxes, and middle income workers are laboring under marginal tax rates approaching 50%. No wonder middle-income wage growth has slowed sharply. Reducing marginal tax rates for these middle-income earners would lead to income increases for middle-income workers, just as reducing excessive marginal tax rates for higher-income workers did, going all the way back to the Kennedy tax cuts of the 1960s.
The Ryan-Camp Tax Reform
But there is another, different, Republican middle class income tax
cut already in the works in Congress. House Budget Committee
Chairman Paul Ryan (R-WI) proposed in his 2012 and 2013 budgets,
both adopted by the full House, individual income tax reform with
just two rates, 10% applying to families earning less than $100,000
per year, and 25% applying to families earning over $100,000.
Those are the average effective tax rates paid at those income levels today, which means that in theory enough deductions and loopholes could be eliminated to enact such tax reform on a revenue neutral basis. But tax reform does not need to be revenue neutral. It can and should be a net tax cut!
That is especially true in the context of an overall budget proposal that cuts spending to reach a balanced budget within a reasonable time. Ryan’s proposed 2013 budget would slash the deficit by 86% in 4 years, by 2017, as scored by CBO. The federal deficit by 2017 would be $182 billion, compared to deficits of well over $1 trillion for each of Obama’s four years as President. That deficit would be less than 1% of GDP, negligible and easily manageable.
That would be with Ryan’s proposed tax reform. The lower rates of that reform would produce an economic boom, most likely balancing the budget in four years.
Ryan’s 2014 budget, which will be out in late February or early March, should propose enough additional short-term spending cuts to reach balance within 4 years, even with the unrealistic static scoring used by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO). Ryan’s 2013 budget proposed $6.8 trillion in spending cuts over the first 10 years. Ryan should bump that up a bit to $8 trillion or so in his 2014 budget to achieve that balance, as scored by CBO.
With that balanced budget in short term prospect, conservative and Tea Party grassroots, think tanks, foundations and other organizations would loudly rally behind the Ryan budget. That little additional reach, where Ryan and the Republicans could say this is how we would achieve an actual balanced budget in the near term, would make an enormous difference among the public. Conservative organizations (see, e.g., the new DeMint Heritage Foundation) should step up and dynamically score the Ryan budget, showing that it would more than achieve balance in the short term.
House Ways and Means Chairman David Camp (R-MI) is poised to pick up the Ryan tax reform proposal, and begin to move actual legislation through the House, starting in March. That would cause a further explosion of grassroots support for these Republican tax and spending proposals.
The tide is already turning against Obama and his Democrats. This time when the President stands up and runs a litany of fabricated charges regarding the specific cuts the Ryan budget would make, as he did in regard to the 2013 Ryan budget, conservative and all honest media organizations must stand up and say, “Stop Lying About the Ryan Budget, Mr. President!”
The President made up false charges that Romney’s tax plan would raise taxes on the middle class, when it actually proposed the largest middle class tax cut in American history. Then the President devoted hundreds of millions in false advertising to ram that dishonest caricature of the Romney tax plan down the throats of the American people, while Obama was the only candidate in the race running on a tax increase.
About the Author
Peter Ferrara is Director of Entitlement and Budget Policy at the Heartland Institute, General Counsel of the American Civil Rights Union, Senior Fellow at the National Center for Policy Analysis, and Senior Policy Advisor on Entitlements and Budget Policy at the National Tax Limitation Foundation. He served in the White House Office of Policy Development under President Reagan, and as Associate Deputy Attorney General of the United States under President George H.W. Bush.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (146) | Leave a comment
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Martin kzovich| 1.2.13 @ 7:07AM
I agree and the first step is to get new leadership in the Republican Party who actually leads.
Jack in Wi| 1.2.13 @ 7:59AM
The usual blah, blah, blah. The Republicans and the country can never return to power as long as they push endless wars for no sane reason. We are spending 50% more then we have to on foreign wars. This country has to return to fiscal sanity by bringing the troops home and cutting the military budget by at least 50%. Get rid of all foreign aid. Most of it ends up in the pockets of criminals and kleptocrats. Slash all corporate welfare programs. Cut the bureaucracy to the bone Then and only then can we look at the entitlements in this never ending depression. Boehner, Cantor and Ryan could never sell prime staks if they were giving them way for nothing. They are Moe Larry and Curley reborn. We need to clean house on the leadership and get some real articulate fighters.
Occam's Tool| 1.2.13 @ 10:58AM
Prime Steaks, Jack.
Packers Suck! Minnesota will beat them AGAIN next week!
Jack in Wi| 1.2.13 @ 11:29AM
The spelling and typing Nazi strikes again. Occam: I thought you had a job working for some government agency. No wonder you have nothing to do. Just another bored bureaucrat stinking up the internet.
Purp| 1.2.13 @ 7:31AM
Ha! The GOP caves ... they got the worst deal of the whole year by waiting and waiting and waiting.
What a bunch of wimpy, stupid, spineless, wussies... Great group of responsible citizens.
The House of Rapresentatives are a bunch of Losers - again. No spending cuts, just tax increases. What does the Republican Party stand for, hmmm?
CJW| 1.2.13 @ 9:10AM
Purp the Village Idiot
The GOP did not get the worst deal of the year.
The American people got the worst deal. But that does not matter to a partisan hack idiot like you.
Bob Grant| 1.2.13 @ 9:22AM
Agreed. This clown sees this in terms of politics. You and I see it in terms of how it affects the American People.
At this point we can only hope he and his ilk suffer the most from all of this madness.
CJW| 1.2.13 @ 9:30AM
Purpie will not suffer since he is a parasite sucking on the government goodies.
Von Mises Jr| 1.2.13 @ 10:05AM
Perp is making $10 per hour as a MoveOn troll whom will see the cost of his food and gas skyrocket.
But if he was not so damn stupid to be surprised, he would have not missed foreign stocks and companies selling in foreign markets skyrocket this morning. MOS is up 4.4%. RIO and FLR are up 3.4%. Canadian Natural Resources (oil sands) is up 3%. Seadrill is up 2.65%. I'm making more money per minute than Caliban will make all day. Wait until Caliban goes to the market or gas station next week. He will be redistributing his $10 to me.
Purp| 1.2.13 @ 10:50AM
No, I am gainfully employed, top 2% and have my own biz... but you idiots can't fathom someone with wealth and power not believing in your Corporate Crap.
And of course, you're wrong about investments, at least where mine are concerned.
I just think customers and employees matter more than investors and owners. I'm not an elitist like you all are.
Personally, I believe we should have let ALL the Bush tax cuts expired and lived with the results.
For a fiscally responsible person, that is what should have been done.
On the other hand, I can see the rationale to waiting for tax raises on the middle class until the Bush Depression is behind us.
All your conservative ideological blather is a losing proposition. It lost on Nov 6th and again last night.
America isn't buying your "bankrupt the government" and "government is bad always" at all costs mentality. Your philosophy has been rejected resoundingly.
But you can attack me. I'm a winner, and I can take it. Thank you to all my conservative "friends" here for all your little verbal "gifts" .
Enjoy being on the losing side for a while. Milton Friedman was soooo wrong, and time has proven it.
Tom Kyba| 1.2.13 @ 10:57AM
Isn't it funny how all you trolls are such great wealthy independent businessmen with envy-inducing CVs. Yeah we believe your just-so story Mr. trump. And I'm the guy who planted the flag on Mars for Maxine Waters.
Purp| 1.2.13 @ 12:12PM
Who cares if you believe me? That's your problem, not mine.
Like I said, you can't possibly imagine successful people NOT believing your way is the right way.
Everyone who doesn't believe or agree with your ideas must be a troll, a know-nothing, a leech on society, is that right?
Someday, maybe you will wake up and realize who you are and what you believe is corporate propaganda meant to destroy your living wage and put you in the serf position, what the powerful and rich have always wanted - you to be put in your place.
Just listen to Mitt Romney talk about you moochers. Did you see/hear that video? It's Corporate America speaking to you, not just him ...
topcat52| 1.2.13 @ 2:35PM
I believe you. Therefore, I challenge you. If you really feel that the top 2% should be paying more in taxes, I challenge you to make out a check for an additional, say, 10% in tax, and mail it to the IRS. You can then post a picture of the cancelled check with the IRS stamp on youtube for all of us to see. Until that time, shut up.
Grzmlyk| 1.2.13 @ 3:52PM
Then again, a thriving business selling weed and meth out of your dorm room isn't exactly going to cause you to pay more in taxes. Purp won't pay a dime - and he'll keep his EBT card.
CJW| 1.2.13 @ 4:16PM
Mr G
Happy New Year
Purp| 1.2.13 @ 7:32PM
GrymReaperlyk - is that all you can come up with? Some stupid, often repeated, conservative entertainment media tripe?
Where did you get that little gem, from Rush Loudmouth? Or Fixed News?
Nevertheless, you all should pay more taxes, and the Bush tax cuts should have expired for all.
Now, before you explode - how else to deal with the debt you conservatives created?
Purp| 1.2.13 @ 7:29PM
Toppy Baby - Whatsamatta, you like to whine?
First, I won't shut up.
Second, it isn't just me that should pay more - it's you too.
So, my friend, we have to do it by law, so YOU have no choice.
Anthony| 1.2.13 @ 1:30PM
Oh Tom, so YOU'RE the guy who planted the American flag on Mars that has Shelia Jackson Lee in a quandry!!
I used to think the Congressional Black Caucus, next to the U.N., was the most disfunctional assembled group of morons under one roof.
However, the entire Congress has earned that distinction.
Can't wait for the Revolution to start!!!
CJW| 1.2.13 @ 4:18PM
Anthony
Remeber the one CBC member who opposed sending more military equipment to one of our South Sea island bases because so much equipment would "tip over the island." He and Sheila share the same brain.
Buon Anno.
Albert Constantine Jr.| 1.2.13 @ 5:12PM
CJW;
Hank Johnson and the island of Guam, I believe.
CJW| 1.2.13 @ 6:58PM
Albert
Yes.
Maybe purpie works for Hank as a speechwriter.
Joellen| 1.2.13 @ 6:20PM
They share the same pea brain with Perp - who you notice will not tell us exactly wha he does - me wonders why?
Joellen| 1.2.13 @ 6:21PM
BBT NOW!
Purp| 1.2.13 @ 7:33PM
Joellen - because what I do for a living is none of your d* business, that's why.
Suffice to say, I won't have to worry about retirement. But then you knew that, didn't you, Babe?
Joellen| 1.2.13 @ 7:39PM
Your the one who keeps bringing up how much you make, just trying to ascertain whether you're a hustler, dealer or simply a braggart - sweetie pie.
Joellen| 1.2.13 @ 7:40PM
BBT NOW!
CJW| 1.2.13 @ 8:38PM
Purpie the Village Idiot
We know what you do. You are a parasite on the government goodies. You don't have to worry about retirement because the taxpayers will continue to support you.
You are the one saying how much you make but afraid to answer.
Nobody cares except to show what a lying idiot your are. You assume that having a job would give you credibility. You are still an idiot regardless.
Keep posting purpie.
Doctor Right| 1.2.13 @ 3:05PM
LOL! I just spit-up my water!
Bob Grant| 1.2.13 @ 11:00AM
Sir,
I hope regulations, taxes, obamacare, carbon taxes, etc. swallow you up and spit you out.
As a consolation, it will be fun watching you and your ilk attempt to tow the obama line while you sink.
You better get some of that crony capitalism while you can. That's all you and your "biz" can hope for.
You can choke on your Hope and Change....JACKASS!!!!
Purp| 1.2.13 @ 12:18PM
Bobby, Bobby - no more so than Clean Air and Clean Water regulations have damaged me.
You have no idea how America is being damaged by the Corporate Moguls you support.
Not all businesses, mind you - American businesses that do business in America need our support - like my business
But TransNational Corporations like WalMart, GE, IBM, Exxon, Pfizer, AT&T ... that don't care about borders, just profits.
With their army of lobbyists and lawyers pressuring Congress for tax breaks, havens and special considerations, they are killing America, American jobs and Americans, and you support them? Puhlease ... go learn something.
Read the book "Fine Print" by David Cay Johnston as a start.
Remember, Reagan wasn't a true conservative at all. You just have been fed the line so long you think he was.
KennesawJack| 1.2.13 @ 3:41PM
Purp, Purp, Purp. Careful what you say about GE. He and Immelt are best buds, remember? You may get a midnight visit from Obamarx's boyz if you keep that up and that might have a negative impact on your hero worship of the Marxist, Muslim-in-Chief.
CJW| 1.2.13 @ 4:16PM
KJack
Happy New Year.
KennesawJack| 1.2.13 @ 4:22PM
Thanks. To you, too. Just got back and trying to catch up with things. What's up with TLP?
Pecos Pete| 1.2.13 @ 6:14PM
Albert has the scoop as he was in contact with Tim via email. Simply put: TAS banned Tim.
And KJ: Happy New Year to you and yours.
BBT! (Bring Back Tim!)
KennesawJack| 1.2.13 @ 6:56PM
Happy New Year to you and yours also, Pete. I have been in contact with Tim and I think he'll be back. If not, I'm done with TAS.
Purp| 1.2.13 @ 7:36PM
KennySAWmouth - YOU have far more to worry about a drone dropping on your a** than I do.
Aren't you getting tired of your lame Marxist, pinko Commie bulls**t?
It only shows you people to be out of touch and retarded to the rest of the world.
Hmmmm, then again, keep it up. You lost with it, so keep it up. Hillary needs you.
KennesawJack| 1.2.13 @ 7:46PM
Why would I tire of calling a Marxist a Marxist? Really, though, Purp. You should be careful about what you say concerning GE. We would miss your inane nonsense if you were to suddenly pull a Vince Foster on us.
Stan Redmond| 1.2.13 @ 6:54PM
You need to start keeping track of your CV. Sometimes you state you work for a Fortune 10 company and others you're own high tech biz. That leaves the only high tech Fortune 10 being Hewlett Packard. Or if you're on one of the other multi national global corporations there you are a damned hypocrite or a liar.
junkyard infidel| 1.2.13 @ 11:25AM
wow, congrats to the perp..who knew that spending endless days and nights on your knees at the local glory hole could put you in the top 2% ? and even more impressive is the fact that the perp found a glory hole that provides wi-fi !
Bob Grant| 1.2.13 @ 11:43AM
I give him credit for being a master-multitasker.
Not many people can service congressmen and blog simultaneously.
Purp| 1.2.13 @ 12:20PM
Bobby, Bobby - there you go again!
Purp| 1.2.13 @ 12:20PM
Junky - tsk, tsk - you seem to know an awful lot about being on your knees - but don't project onto others what you enjoy yourself. It's not useful, idiot.
Quartermaster| 1.2.13 @ 12:20PM
I would agree that you're not an elitist. I would also agree with most others here that you are insane.
We still have the Obama depression, and the worst hasn't hit yet.
I have as yet to see you post anything shopwing Friendman was wrong. It is unlikely in the extreme that you have the metal wherewithal do come up with anything on your own. I'm sure you can post moveondown talking points, but that's about you'd be able spew.
The important thing to realize is the GOP didn't lose, the American people lost. A lot, and the bill is going to get far larger.
One other thing. I'd agree, if that's what you are proposing, that the GOP establishment stands for nothing other than what the Dimocrat establishment stands for. The power to give out goodies to their cronies.
Bob Grant| 1.2.13 @ 1:54PM
Indeed, Americans lost.
Republicans lost a long time ago for being enablers to this madness.
Liberals are drivers of EVERY ill that faces this nation, Republicans are the enablers.
The voting public will surely come to understand this, but of course, it will be too late.
Purp| 1.2.13 @ 7:39PM
QuarterMissy - you can't blame Obama for what Bush had wrought. Didn't work, doesn't work, and you lost big time on that issue in the election. You do know that, don't you? Or did Foxy News not tell you the truth?
The GOP hasn't been anything but Goodie-Granny for the Corporate world for decades. But YOU aren't going to get any from them, that's fer sure.
Doctor Right| 1.2.13 @ 3:09PM
You are such a complete moron.
It's not hard to believe that Liberals can be rich and powerful; just look at Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Larry Ellison, Harvey Weinstein, etc.
But they're actually smart. You're not. You are as dumb as they come.
To that end, you do NOT own a successful business, you are NOT wealthy, and you have NO power.
How do I know this? Because I'm smart, too.
You're a moronic, under-educated liberal jackass who spouts talking points.
You're a joke.
And if you want to dispute the GREAT Milton Friedman, do it with an actual point. Have some facts at your disposal.
Dumbass...
Purp| 1.2.13 @ 7:52PM
Doctor Dum-Dum - Glad to see you admit Liberals are great money makers. They are great philanthropists too.
Now, as far as I'm concerned, well, you go fight with those you don't agree ... you need to be quite smart to do so ... but I know you won't, you like being more comfy in the dum-dum zone.
Albert Constantine Jr.| 1.2.13 @ 3:50PM
"No, I am gainfully employed, top 2% and have my own biz... but you idiots can't fathom someone with wealth and power not believing in your Corporate Crap."
Actually, there is someone not currently participating in the forum, who asked me to provide the following response to your claim:
"It's true. He runs an Anal Lube Company, when he's not kneeling in front of a Glory Hole, somewhere, waiting for his Dinner Order to arrive."
For those of you who miss TLP, I thought I would channel him there for a moment.
CJW| 1.2.13 @ 4:19PM
What would we do without purpie?
Albert Constantine Jr.| 1.2.13 @ 4:41PM
CJW;
Tim wanted to make sure his thoughts on the issue did not go unstated.
Drunken Sailor| 1.2.13 @ 4:47PM
Nicely done!
Pecos Pete| 1.2.13 @ 6:18PM
Muchas gracias!
BBT!
Purp| 1.2.13 @ 7:53PM
Alby - exactly why he was banned. Thanks for reminding everyone of the low-life degenerate TLP is.
Bob Grant| 1.2.13 @ 7:59PM
But he always seems to get a response out of you. Even Timmy from Beyond gets under your skin. Heh, heh.
Bob Grant| 1.2.13 @ 7:58PM
Al,
It's like the Ghost of Timmy is speaking to all of us. Should I bust out the ouija board?
Albert Constantine Jr.| 1.2.13 @ 8:16PM
While I am a great believer in doing my own original material, I just did a cut and paste on that one from the Contest Master himself.
Von Mises Jr| 1.2.13 @ 3:08PM
That's not government goodies Perp is sucking. It is him working at his high paying career working nights outside the Lincoln Tunnel.
Perp has time to post bull$hit all day long while he works a very successful business and earns in the top 2%. And I am a kumquat.
Purp| 1.2.13 @ 7:53PM
VonMissus - I really get to you, don't I? LMFAO... hahaha
Bob Grant| 1.2.13 @ 8:02PM
Von,
He'll rent an orifice to you at a reasonable price. Ask about his specials...
Stan Redmond| 1.2.13 @ 2:37PM
Will you be taking any actions to shield your multi million dollar estates, as you have claimed several times here, from the new inheritance taxes?
benny havens| 1.2.13 @ 7:32AM
Our Founding Fathers, in all of their infinite wisdom, created a system where the people would rule themselves. Pretty neat, I would say. They created and handed down a system with, so called, checks and balances so no one man or group could totally control and overpower the people. This type of system did not exist anywhere in the world then or now.
These men not only put their wealth and possessions on the line but also, literally, put their lives on the line to create this system. They went against the most powerful nation on Earth and won. They won with an army of farmers and shopkeepers. This is when men really had balls.
However they too were only mortal men. They didn’t think of everything. They didn’t consider all of the possible scenarios that could develop that would threaten the Republic. Their intentions were that the people, through the voting process, would remove all of the scoundrels that sought to fundamentally change America. And they did warn us to beware of politicians offering the people gifts. They explained that it was a sure way of loosing our self-government. Did we listen? I think not.
benny havens| 1.2.13 @ 7:33AM
They also relied on the freedom of the press to be the watchdog over the lying politicians and believed they would inform the people as to what was going on in the government. The Founders did not expect the free press to work in concert with the liars.
And so, we have reached that position where Franklin said, “we gave you a Republic, if you can hold onto it”.
We can raise armies to repel foreign invaders. We can keep an eye on subversive groups bent on destroying our nation. But what do we do when politicians lie about their intentions and the free press doesn’t call them on it? What do we do about a party of politicians that purposefully creates a peasant class and promises free gifts for one reason, to be reelected and maintain power over the people. How do we remove the connivers, liars and scam artists when they have convinced the majority they will get something for nothing at the expense of someone else?
What would the Founding Fathers do in this case? I am afraid, we the people have lost our ability to remove the creatures of destruction from our government.
Al Adab| 1.2.13 @ 10:20AM
What would the founders do?
"That when any government becomes destructive of these ends , it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it and to institute new government... as to them ... most likely to effect their safety and happiness."
The question for us is what are we willing to do about it?
Purp| 1.2.13 @ 10:57AM
The government is not tyrannical - we voted them into office and we can vote them out. Let's keep context in mind, shall we?
Now, the people could be idiots - and that's a whole different question/problem to solve, isn't it?
C. Vernon Crisler | 1.2.13 @ 11:41AM
The people are idiots.
Quartermaster| 1.2.13 @ 12:25PM
What context might that be Purp? Your assignment is to prove that an elected government can not be tyrannical. While you are at it, you might try that on Adolf Hitler's regime. Nazis were elected as well.
People can be idiots, particularly when they listen to Dimocrat demagogues like Pelosi, Reid, Biden and the Kenyan. But, of course, you don't have the historical background to realize any of this.
Al Adab| 1.2.13 @ 1:44PM
So, if I understand, no elected government can be a tyranical one.
Strange, it seems that if a government pursues "social Justice" as its first priority a system can only be imposed not created. That would require coercion, a loss of personal freedom, in its implementation. Would not such a government be the very institution which then defined "justice" for the oppressed and who the "oppressors" might be?
An elected Chavez or Hitler or any other could not then be a tyranny?
Butch| 1.2.13 @ 2:40PM
"Your people, Sir, is nothing but a great beast!"--Alexander Hamilton. Know who he is, fella?
Stan Redmond| 1.2.13 @ 2:42PM
Funny, I don't recall voting for the dozens of Marxist czars to lord over ever aspect of daily life. I don't recall voting for the phony recess appointments when the Senate was not in recess. I don't recall voting for that controlling nag of a wife to say what kind of food is going to be served at schools.
And the government is tyrannical. If you don't do what they say they lock you up or simply kill you. (Ruby Ridge, Davidians)
Doctor Right| 1.2.13 @ 3:10PM
Hitler was elected, too, you blithering idiot.
GobBluthe| 1.2.13 @ 7:52AM
No more tax cuts for the middle and lower classes. Conservatives still don't see the problem they face electorally is caused directly by the fact TOO FEW people pay income taxes. The result is the USA is more of a welfare state today than ever before. The GOP has foolishly shielded the American voter from the consequences of their voting patterns. Removing more and more people from the tax rolls has resulted in a electorate that increasingly embraces big govt. Liberals want to bring back the tax code of the 1950s? Fine. Let us start with bring back the 10% rate on the very FIRST dollar of income earned. Earn only one dollar all year? Pay 10 cents in taxes.
Purp| 1.2.13 @ 9:12AM
"Liberals want to bring back the tax code of the 1950s? Fine. Let us start with bring back the 10% rate on the very FIRST dollar of income earned. Earn only one dollar all year? Pay 10 cents in taxes." - sounds good to me.
Let's restore the greatness of the country at the expense of the Corporations and Wealthy, instead of the other way around.
Stan Redmond| 1.2.13 @ 2:43PM
Will your Fortune 10 corporation take actions to shield itself from onerous tax rates?
Doctor Right| 1.2.13 @ 3:11PM
Good point. Purpie, you're such a humanitarian...do you volunteer to pay higher taxes with all your vast, accumulated wealth? Or are you just another liberal poseur..?
Stan Redmond| 1.2.13 @ 6:58PM
He both owns a huge multi million dollar high tech company all by his lonesome and then works for a Fortune 10. Who knew a multi millionaire working 2 jobs has time to post on TAS all day.
CJW| 1.2.13 @ 7:03PM
purpie is also a speechwriter for Sheila "Mars" Jackson Lee, Hank "Guam" Johnson, and Joey "Chains" Biden.
c. j. acworth| 1.2.13 @ 9:17AM
Forget taxes, it's the spending that counts. Implicitly or explicitly conservatives focus too much on taxes, thinking that by cutting they can grow the economy (true) and at the same time "starve the Beast". But the Beast has found it doesn't need actual revenue in order to spend. It can borrow, or just move electrons in a computer at the Fed. and the party will go on forever. Until it can't.
Purp| 1.2.13 @ 11:09AM
Tax cuts have never been shown to grow the economy.
Some of the highest tax rates correlate with some of the greatest growth spurts in the economy.
Right now, we have one of the lowest of tax revenues vis a vis GDP in modern history - with hardly the greatest growth. Where' s the growth with 12 years of Bush Tax Cuts? Hmmmm?
The "Beast" (Deficit spending and borrowing) you mention was created by Ronald Reagan, continued by Papa Bush, and put on Steroids by Baby Bush! So make sure you place the blame where it belongs.
Quartermaster| 1.2.13 @ 12:28PM
"Tax cuts have never been shown to grow the economy."
If you are sincere, then you are insane. Nothing has been better documented than tax cuts causing economic growth. Government is a parasite. It can only take. It produces nothing.
CJW| 1.2.13 @ 1:39PM
Purp is not insane, just a stupid lefty. But that is redundant.
Jack Kennedy cut tax rates.
The Reagan cuts were supported by the Dems, including Senator Bradley.
Even Dem governors propose sales tax "holidays" to spur retail sales, and give tax breaks to companies that establish in their states.
Dems routinely support tax credits to favored activities.
Stan Redmond| 1.2.13 @ 2:44PM
But deficit spending is just fine under Obama. UH huh. Why is that? Why is it all those horrible things republicans did, like deficit spending, so horrible but there is never any complaint that Obama has had more deficit spending than anyone?
Doctor Right| 1.2.13 @ 3:13PM
"Tax cuts have never been shown to grow the economy.
Some of the highest tax rates correlate with some of the greatest growth spurts in the economy."
Now I know you're a teenage know-nothing.
You obviously weren't around during the Reagan years. Reagan launched the greatest peacetime economic expansion in US history with...tax cuts.
Hardcard| 1.2.13 @ 8:02AM
Good deal ??? and only a 3.9 trillion increase in the deficit spending, golly gee now we can relax no cliff jumping and obamao is on the was back to Hawaii it's really a cheap vacation only 7 million $$$ we owe it to him for a job well done, he saved the day.
cicero| 1.2.13 @ 8:40AM
This was the plan all along. This man we have elected as President always intended to do maximum harm to this nation. He hates the United States and everything he thinks it stands for. He and his Progressive friends have waited for over 100 years to get into this position. Now, from their position of power, with no real opposition, they can plunder the realm, and march off into the sunset, while the citizenry riot in the streets, trying to get enough to sustain themselves and their families. This will not be pretty.
Ryan's budget, if passed, will only be putting a little finger in a big hole in the dyke. The Republicans have again fooled themselves with the idea that they can sleep with the devil, and wake up in the morning to repair their lost virtue. How many times does this silly game have to be replayed before this country lies in ruins? Without economic strength, no country can long defend itself. We are on the down slope. Remember, this is what a majority of the people voted for. You kid yourself if you think they were "fooled".
CJW| 1.2.13 @ 9:15AM
Cicero
I agree.
Unfortunately this is the consequence of the election when our so called Republicans, conservatives, and others chose to stay home, or vote third party, to prove their "principles," and now we have Obama with a Dem Senate.
Al Adab| 1.2.13 @ 10:16AM
We all know that Cicero is correct, there are simply not enough of us to do anything about it. There are a few congressional districts around the country with Conservative majorities, but not enough of them to effect the result.
Meanwhile we have a Dem party which sees itself just as the communist party saw itself to whit as the only legitimate expression of the peoples will. All others are either reactionary or anti- democratic and only the Dems are legitimate to govern. At some point they will simply ban opposition parties because only they believe thamselves legitimate.
RAMIII| 1.2.13 @ 10:45AM
Agreed; what "we the people" must realize is that the politicians have figured out how to insulate themselves from real consequences. It is the same at the local level (i.e. the ever present city attorney at the city council meetings -- "oh, we will have our attorney look into that question . . ."). Bottom line, with the complicit media and every one with their hand out, we have lost our way. This article must have been written with tongue in cheek, because if written seriously it is only a large amount of wishful thinking, like Karl Rove on election night while disputing the results on FOX.
CJW| 1.2.13 @ 12:22PM
Al Adab
We should have had better turnout in the swing states such as Ohio, Virginia, Florida, Nevada, North Carolina, and New Hampshire. With a winner take all system, the electoral vote count makes the elections seem more of a big win that it really is.
The popular vote is also misleading given that the Dems rack up huge numbers in New York and California.
Unfortunately, we are now where six or seven states control the presidency. The candidates will campaign in only six to ten states that count.
The most fair system is to award the electoral votes based on the winner of a congressional district. But each state would have to pass a law to do this for each state.
Al Adab| 1.2.13 @ 12:45PM
W:
The flaw in awarding electoral vote by district is that in many states the urban centers hold all the population. Once redistricting came around as it does every ten years, the urban centers would control a majority in each district or at least most of them. Of course even many of the districts which elected republican or Conservative congressmen, voted Obama on that side of the ballot. Consistency is not the voters watchword.
CJW| 1.2.13 @ 1:13PM
Al Adab
Redistricting may do what you say. But now, awarding electoral votes by district would mirror the House of Representatives, and the Senate, so it would be close.
States such as Pa,Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan, Virginia, Florida, and North Carolina have Republican Governors and most have Rep legislatures, which would make gerrymandering more difficult. No matter how you gerrymander you have a certain number of voters in each district.
The Dem cities will still dominate their districts, as they do now, but it would be difficult to cut up a city like Philly to put voters throughout the state of Pa..Same for Detroit and Cleveland .
It will make local politics in each district more relevant and important to the presidential election.
State legislatures tend to be more conservative even in blue states. Pa, Michigan, and Wisconsin have Rep governors and legislatures.
It is worth discussing and exploring.
C. Vernon Crisler | 1.2.13 @ 11:43AM
Dittos cicero...
Pecos Pete| 1.2.13 @ 9:16AM
Next up ... the debt ceiling.
And if you think that King O is through lying, just wait a couple of weeks. MoveOn, and other similar Marxist organizations, will continue the "tax the rich" rhetoric and King O will ratchet up his class warfare speeches.
Some may think that King O's new higher taxes on the "rich" will somehow neuter his demands for higher taxes when these new higher taxes don't solve the deficit problem. Just wait a bit and you'll see the Organizer In Chief at his best calling for more taxes, more regulation, more control.
Wall Street, fat cats, bankers and greedy capitalists will be the meat of Jay Carney's daily harangues.
Pecos Pete| 1.2.13 @ 9:17AM
BBT!
Drunken Sailor| 1.2.13 @ 10:39AM
Hell Pete, he started lying before resuming his vacation. Now he is stating he will not budge on his stance on the debt limit because Congress should pay for the spending they initiated.
The masses are to stupid or lack the memory to remember that it was his idea to increase the spending in most of these areas. Once again he shifts the blame for his actions to others.
Stan Redmond| 1.2.13 @ 2:48PM
King Obama (pbuh) has already said he will not negotiate the debt ceiling. I am assuming this means his unilateral authority to raise it whenever and by however much he wants.
Pecos Pete| 1.2.13 @ 6:24PM
Stan: If King O raises the debt ceiling by Executive Order, will Congress sit on their asses? Or will they start impeachment proceedings?
I'm betting on their asses.
BBT!
Stan Redmond| 1.2.13 @ 7:06PM
They've been on their asses all this time, they'll just re-inflate their hemerhoid pillows and continue.
sickofit5| 1.2.13 @ 9:18AM
All very true Peter, but once again the republicans are completely inept at explaining things to the people.
Bob Grant| 1.2.13 @ 9:27AM
Even if they did explain things well the corrupt media would ignore it.
It goes something along the lines of screaming in space.
Appleby| 1.2.13 @ 9:30AM
It's the End Times and things will continue to roll downhill gathering speed while the usual suspects posture and preen to an increasingly small audience. If you want me for anything, I'll be in church.
SUBVET| 1.2.13 @ 10:05AM
Applequeen..... maybe you can ask the Lord to give you the strength to somehow make amends with TLP while in church.
We are waiting...........
Occam's Tool| 1.2.13 @ 10:56AM
Bring Back Tim the Man! Tim---I am sure Weasel Zippers will want you. See you there!
C. Vernon Crisler | 1.2.13 @ 11:45AM
No, do not bring back TLP. He is better of on chat forums where there are no standards of decorum.
Al Adab| 1.2.13 @ 11:48AM
We suffer Purp, what was wrong with TLP?
Drunken Sailor| 1.2.13 @ 11:56AM
His honesty was to brutal for some, Al. Seems bitter medicine fell to PC even on this site.
Purp| 1.2.13 @ 12:22PM
Honesty? TLP? You mean his foul, disgusting verbal abuse, don't you?
Drunken Sailor| 1.2.13 @ 1:55PM
You're going to lecture us on verbal abuse?
And I quote "What a bunch of wimpy, stupid, spineless, wussies... Great group of responsible citizens.
The House of Rapresentatives are a bunch of Losers - again. No spending cuts, just tax increases. What does the Republican Party stand for, hmmm?"
That is rich! But I give you some credit, you have been remarkable restrained since you have noticed TLP and others were banned. Did you get a warning?
Purp| 1.2.13 @ 2:40PM
Drunk Boy - if you don't know the difference between what I said and the foul-mouth swearing, and degrading language TLP uses (verbal abuse), well, let's just say, you are lacking in critical thinking skills.
You may have noticed you are very capable of dishing it out - if you don't like taking it back, in kind, then you should refrain from your own ad hominem attacks.
No, no warning for me, I am pleasant in comparison to TLP.
But there was another guy, draco, or something like that who might have been banned. He swore all the time too.
I just represent an alternative philosophies from you all here generally. I still am curious why you all don't see what I see so clearly.
The proof of failure of Reagan's policies and Voodoo Economics with the trickle down bs is all around us, yet you cannot or will not see it.
Oh, Reagan's policies have been great for the Corporations and the Wealthy, but certainly not the average Joe.
The 30 years of the Reagan policies of Corporation first, regulation is bad, investors and owners are King, has caused the mess we are in, with stagnant wages for lower and middle class workers, while Corporations are overwhelmingly smashing profit targets.
Drunken Sailor| 1.2.13 @ 3:01PM
A. I have no problem with your juvenile attacks. They amuse me.
B. My critical thinking skills are just fine, they just don't buy what your dishing.
C. There is more to verbal abuse than foul language and you have dabbled in the degrading name calling on more occasions than I care to mention.
D. We wonder the same about you, and are curious how you can keep believing in failed policies that have no track record of success in any countries they have been tried in.
E. The disparity in your logic is astounding. Almost daily you bashed Bushes spending/policies, yet when Obama continues them or even doubles down on them we hear not a peep from you.
Butch| 1.2.13 @ 2:48PM
Who else has been banned, Sailor?
Drunken Sailor| 1.2.13 @ 3:03PM
Not sure. Don't see Mike from N.C, no loss there but he is the only liberal troll I can think of that was a regular poster and is not seen so far.
KennesawJack| 1.2.13 @ 3:45PM
Sailor, been gone to the frozen north to take care of my wife's ailing Mother over the Holidays and have been out of the loop. WHAT IS THE DEAL WITH TIM? WHERE IS HE? I leave for a lousy couple of weeks and the whole damn site goes to hell.
Drunken Sailor| 1.2.13 @ 4:23PM
Others on here have communicated with him via Email. Apparently he has been banned. I guess being truthful but blunt is frowned upon. Hell, he has said some things that shocked me but I understood what he was getting at. Apparently the scroll button is to much to operate for some people.
Stan Redmond| 1.2.13 @ 2:48PM
Spam Spam Spam Spam
Doctor Right| 1.2.13 @ 3:14PM
Conservative or not, TLP was and is a blow-hard.
Sometimes it IS how one say things that make one's posts unbearable.
Drunken Sailor| 1.2.13 @ 4:24PM
Doc, normally I see eye to eye with you but I prefer freedom of speech to censor ship for rude manners.
KennesawJack| 1.2.13 @ 4:44PM
Amen and amen. I emailed Tim. I think he is going to be re-instated. If not, I'm boycotting TAS and wonder how many will join me. There are people on this site who regularly post virulent anti-Semitism (without Tim's colorful adjectives, but ugly, nonetheless) and they're still here. Purp is as foul as they get (again without Tim's color) but he's still here. Who would have thought that TAS would kowtow to the PC crowd?
CJW| 1.2.13 @ 12:25PM
Free TLP
We have numerous comments here supporting the killing of unborn children. This is not even questioned as a standard of decorum.
We should allow all opinions and let them stand or fall on their merits.
Al Adab| 1.2.13 @ 3:53PM
Perhaps, rather than his opinions or syntax, it was the co-opting of the site for his own use with the contest and all. Just another speculation.
In re: electoral vote, maybe one of the big states could try the district approach and we could all see how it works out after redistricting.
Drunken Sailor| 1.2.13 @ 4:25PM
Al, you may have something there. It has been in the back of my mind as well. But since they have our emails wouldn't a warning to him been more appropriate? Guess we may never know all the details.
Albert Constantine Jr.| 1.2.13 @ 5:23PM
Al;
He was banned shortly after one of Anna K.'s acolytes started posting as TPL, and was printing actual profanity instead of the $%# variety that Tim used. I think when they went to ban that one, TLP was also banned by the substitute fill-in replacement holiday vacation interning editor covering the spot.
Tim expects to be returning once it is straightened out. Meanwhile, at 3:50 p.m., I gave his latest thoughts on Purp above.
Al Adab| 1.2.13 @ 5:57PM
Thank you Albert. Sometimes our names get confused as well. Is Anna K gone also? It will be interesting to get an explanation after all the dust settles. Will AmSpec webmasters provide same?
Albert Constantine Jr.| 1.2.13 @ 6:59PM
I imagine Emory U's classes will be back in session shortly, and we will be hearing from "Anna" and the students then. I also suspect that she visits here under other pretextual identities, as well.
Use of the words Hate and disgusting are a couple of the "tells" that I've identified.
CJW| 1.2.13 @ 7:07PM
Then AmSpec should ban the person(s) using the TPL name because it was done intentionally to get TLP banned. I will write to AmSpec about investigating the TPLgate.
Bob Grant| 1.2.13 @ 8:47PM
Indeed,
What did AmSpec know and when did they know it?
markenoff| 1.2.13 @ 9:46AM
America had no native criminal class....except Congress, of course. - Mark Twain
cicero| 1.2.13 @ 10:32AM
Obama will try to raise the debt ceiling again. In all likelihood he will be successful, as the Rs will vote for it, on the if come that they willl pay for it later. Once that is done, the only way to not default on the soveriegn bonds is to raise taxes on the middle class. After all, that is where the money is, and they don't have the where with all to avoid the taxes. This was always the plan.
But not to worry. Barry will be all right. After all, since he doesn't have to run again, he has more flexibility. In addition, that $37 million house in Honolulu is surrounded by a high wall, and has a big gate. He will be safe from the hungering masses. They will never get past his Secret Service protection.
Occam's Tool| 1.2.13 @ 10:56AM
Um, my nurses and social workers are getting a 2% tax raise. I am getting a 2/3 of 1% tax raise.
The problem when you try to do things like this, Purp, is that the truly wealthy will avoid the taxes, and the upper middle class isn't hurt as much as the lower middle class. In short, it is the act of a Cretin. Milton Friedman will be remembered long after we are both gone and forgotten.
Purp| 1.2.13 @ 12:29PM
No, your nurses and social workers are again paying the 2% payroll tax into social security insurance funds to bankroll their retirement. It's probably the only thing they will have in retirement to count on.
Let's say that over the next 20 years the government starts paying the 2.5 Trillion dollar Social Security trust fund back in dollars, so there is not IOU from the government. Social Security will have plenty of money to run just fine.
But we'll have to pay for Bush's wars and Medicare drug benefit, make up for 12 years of reckless tax cuts in a time of war as well.
After all those, and some tweaks to Medicare, we should be just about fine.
Now, how about we pay our way instead of just whining about how much we have to pay. If you don't want to pay for it, then don't spend it. But it's already spent, so it's too late for that. Most of the spending is already automatic by law and people count on it now. So we have to pay for it - go where the money is and get the money.
They should have let all the Bush tax cuts expire. We survived the '90's tax rates, we would survive them again. Now we have a bigger mess to solve.
Drunken Sailor| 1.2.13 @ 1:57PM
"Now, how about we pay our way instead of just whining about how much we have to pay"
Yea, Paygo was a great idea or how about even a budget?
Can you be any more obvious?
Stan Redmond| 1.2.13 @ 3:04PM
Wait what? More blaming Bush for reckless spending while Obama blows a trillion plus every year? Astounding.
Doctor Right| 1.2.13 @ 3:19PM
"No, your nurses and social workers are again paying the 2% payroll tax into social security insurance funds to bankroll their retirement. It's probably the only thing they will have in retirement to count on."
Good grief...how stupid are you???
Social Security?!?!? That's a joke.
You're probably one of those ignorant fools who thinks that social security is in some kind of "lock box" that Congress can't touch!
Here's a clue, you ignoramus: Social Security is part of the general fund - and it's constantly broke.
Additionally, if Social Security is the one thing people can "count on" (LOL!), did you ever ask yourself "WHY?"?
WHY should people be forced into relying on a compulsory program with proven low ROI, when they could opt-out, invest their money on their own (with no cap on savings), and have easily 5x as much when they retire???
Got an answer, smart-ass?
With each and every post, you prove how unbelievably ignorant you are.
Butch| 1.2.13 @ 5:06PM
Not only much more on retirement, but you could pass it on to your heirs (absent a death tax). Chile is on the rise, and they had some prominent supply-siders as consultants. Their "social security" system is the equivalent of a 401K plan and it's working fine. Tax cuts increased revenues there, too. Another example.
Your replies to Purp are spot-on. P.S.: If Occam's nurses aren't well on up there, they will get NOTHING in SS "Insurance" whether they are "counting on it" or not.
Biff| 1.2.13 @ 6:45PM
"Let's just say that, over the next 29 years, the government starts paying the $2.5 trillion back..."
Now, that's funny...
PolishKnight| 1.2.13 @ 11:26AM
While this all is very important to our bottom line (money in our pockets), let's not forget why Obama won the election:
1) Race based entitlements and feminist benefits from making white males into second class citizens.
2) Commercials bashing Republicans as supporting corporate outsourcing.
The core demographic of the Republican party are working white males and their families and spouses and the Republican elites have spent most of their time finding ways to send work (and indirectly, the income for their political contributions) overseas or bringing in H1B labor who votes overwhelmingly Democrat.
The "Republican party is for the rich" mantra used successfully since the days of FDR is hard to refute when the Republican elites care little about their electorate and fret about tax increases on the wealthy. Yeah yeah yeah, the wealthy are often vital for creating new jobs except for the oligarchs who make money off of regulations (mostly Democrats enabled by Republican elites.)
We're in endgame times which is perhaps a good thing. I wish this had all happened back in 1992 when GHB lost his re-election bid. Would have saved us a lot of pain.
JD| 1.2.13 @ 11:48AM
The last thing a Leftist will support is the formal definition of what is "fair". Putting such a definition on paper would expose realities they want kept hidden.
A "fair share" to them is always a relative concept - more than they're currently paying, but never clear how much.
Stan Redmond| 1.2.13 @ 3:08PM
Fair is another great buzzord of the liberals. Social Justice, food justice, redistributive justice, fair shair, Bush's fault... It just means whatever a liberal wants it to mean and how much they can get away with.
sujo| 1.2.13 @ 12:24PM
Why did Paul Ryan vote yes for this Bill? He caved!
doctorjohn | 1.2.13 @ 1:36PM
Here we go again...looking for the next "Angel" of a Temporary Politician to save us with their next plan to lower INCOME TAXES.
GROWING THE ECONOMY is the only way out of our historic National Debt and that means lowering income taxes however, Income Tax Reform without eliminating the 16th Amendment is only TEMPORARY (and history proves it).
If I have your attention please check out :
http://doctorjohnblog.com/2012.....n-trouble/
Make sure to read the "What Happened To America" section
topcat52| 1.2.13 @ 2:37PM
Unfortunately, the American people were thrown under the bus by this deal. For the "not rich", their taxes will go up by 2% of total wages (up to $113,700) with no deductions from that amount possible, as the payroll tax reverts to 6.2%.
atilla| 1.2.13 @ 2:55PM
WHEN WILL THE 47% START PAYING THEIR FAIR SHARE???
Stan Redmond| 1.2.13 @ 3:15PM
Haven't you heard? We are to have a tax code based on our "fair share". If you're in the 47% of people that pay no income taxes and receive food stamps, obamaphones, food stamps, housing vouchers, utilities subsidies, and free medical care then it seems real fair.
Job| 1.2.13 @ 4:21PM
perhaps when the guillotine is brought out for the top 2 percent the ranting may cease.
Biff| 1.2.13 @ 6:39PM
I believe you have made the same mistake most do in claiming that no one "...ever proposed any middle class tax cut..." during the "fiscal cliff" negotiations.
What so many fail to understand is that, in the mind of Democrats, the idea of reducing tax rates is completely foreign; therefore, actual tax cuts do not exist. In fact, most Democrats define "cuts" as any reduction of increase.
This explains why this latest turd sandwich has just been billed as the "largest tax cut in our nation's history" by Democrats.
PCPSmokerII| 1.2.13 @ 8:53PM
Mental masturbation on these pages. Where is the cum?
Rhoetus| 1.6.13 @ 6:49PM
I have no moral obligation to pay income taxes or abide by any law that it not applied equally to every citizen.