Political Hay
Democrat Wars
Obama’s Afghanistan adventure could unite Republicans and Democrats — against him.
“I figured it up the other day,” Bob Dole memorably snarled during the 1976 vice presidential debate. “If we added up the killed and wounded in Democrat wars in this century, it would be about 1.6 million Americans — enough to fill the city of Detroit.” It wasn’t Dole’s finest moment as an orator, but it should be a cautionary tale for a Democratic president seeking bipartisan support for a “surge” in Afghanistan.
President Barack Obama’s long-awaited decision to send an additional 30,000 troops to Afghanistan — arrived at after much handwringing and more than a little celebration of the commander-in-chief’s King Solomon-like wisdom — did not win universal acclaim.
Antiwar Democrats in Congress panned the president’s plan. Appearing on CNN’s “The Situation Room,” Sen. Russ Feingold (D-Wis.) asked, “Why does it make sense to have a huge ground presence in Afghanistan to deal with a small al Qaeda contingent, when we don’t do that in so many other countries where we’re actually having some success without invading the country and attacking those that are part of al Qaeda?”
Feingold’s host, Wolf Blitzer, asked point-blank, “Will you vote against funding for this new escalation in Afghanistan?” The senator was unequivocal: “Absolutely.” While he isn’t likely to have many fellow travelers in the Senate, many liberal Democrats in the House feel similarly.
Republican hawks were hardly more pleased. They castigated the president for dithering, for shorting General Stanley McChrystal’s request for a full 40,000 troops, and for attaching strings and benchmarks. They noted that Obama sounded like he would rather do anything else — “I would prefer not having to deal with two wars right now,” he told reporters before his West Point speech — besides selling his Afghan surge.
The most vocal of the disaffected hawks was former Vice President Dick Cheney. He denounced Obama for providing “talk about exit strategies and how soon we can get out, instead of talk about how we win.” Cheney told the Politico, “Here’s a guy without much experience, who campaigned against much of what we put in place … and who now travels around the world apologizing.”
Yet as Afghanistan continues to unravel, the politics of the war creates strange bedfellows. Already Sen. Arlen Specter, a pro-war Republican turned endangered Democrat, has come out against the escalation while his liberal primary challenger, Congressman Joe Sestak, supports it. Although the opposition will be most intense among Democratic candidates who seek to ingratiate themselves to the netroots — not a single Democrat vying to replace Ted Kennedy in Massachusetts favors sending more troops to Afghanistan — the issue won’t always be so clear-cut.
Do not expect congressional Republicans — who opposed the Clinton administration’s military interventions in the Balkan s and elsewhere throughout the 1990s — to back Obama as uncritically as George W. Bush on matters of war and peace. While the two most vocal Republican opponents of the president’s plan are the familiar antiwar figures Congressmen Ron Paul (R-Tex.) and Walter Jones (R-N.C.), there are other GOP dissenters.
Consider Congressman Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.), an old-line Reagan conservative who has said he will vote against funding the additional troops. “Sending 30,000 more combat troops to Afghanistan will not make us any safer,” he argued in a statement. “Focusing a strategy around the central government in Kabul will not work, especially with a government as corrupt as the Karzai regime. Sending more American combat troops into Afghanistan just means more of those troops will be doing more of the fighting instead of the Afghans themselves, who are more than willing to defend themselves as long as they are given the resources to do so.”
Rohrabacher is not alone. Congressmen Ed Whitfield (R-KY), Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD), John Duncan (R-TN), and Tim Johnson (R-Ill.) are among the Republicans who have signed on to a bipartisan letter opposing more troops for Afghanistan. Of this group, only Duncan opposed the Iraq war. That number could grow if conditions do not soon improve.
Obama has tried to please everyone, but he may end up satisfying no one. He is not taken seriously by those who believe Afghanistan is essential to American national security interests. His Democratic base no longer believes Afghanistan, unlike Iraq, is the good war. And the Republicans he is counting on to support him have a long history of turning against Democrat wars.
The president should have asked Bob Dole.
About the Author
W. James Antle, III, author of the new book Devouring Freedom: Can Big Government Ever Be Stopped?, is editor of the Daily Caller News Foundation and a senior editor of The American Spectator. You can follow him on Twitter @jimantle.
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Pingback| 12.4.09 @ 6:31AM
Twitter Trackbacks for The American Spectator : Democrat Wars [spectator.org] on Top links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Ken (Old Texican)| 12.4.09 @ 8:01AM
Sigh,
I just don't like our troops and Marines used as pawns in a political chess game, especially in one Obama doesn't intend to finish.
Alan Brooks| 12.5.09 @ 7:28PM
McCain would have done the same thing.
victor| 12.5.09 @ 9:37PM
A.L. Brooktard
"McCain would have done the same thing."
Really?
http://www.ibtimes.com/article.....nistan.htm
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story.....ml?ref=rss
Alan Brooks| 12.6.09 @ 7:39PM
victor GOPshill,
if it is too early to give Obama the Nobel Peace Prize, then it is too early to hold him culpable for the situation today. And why are you Republicans the way you are? Because after the Cold War ended, the GOP couldn't find anything to unite itself with. Almost 20 years on. 20 years! Remember what the Derb wrote about Bush:
"eight years wasted... I had thought he had a conservative bone in his entire body."
Fact is, you are clueless without the Cold War. No wonder so many soldiers I talk to are nostalgic for the '80s. Me too.
Alan Brooks| 12.6.09 @ 8:51PM
And don't get defensive and protest--
you ARE clueless.
blogger gurem | 7.22.10 @ 12:54AM
nice share
Smith| 9.10.11 @ 2:24AM
Awesome share and i like you writing style you break it down very nicely. essay | term paper
victor| 12.6.09 @ 10:49PM
"if it is too early to give Obama the Nobel Peace Prize, then it is too early to hold him culpable for the situation today"
The Peace Prize was given to the C.O. bacause of his PROMISE of peace, not actual peace.
And of course we can hold him culpable and fuuly responsible for making things worse.
PS, GW is NOT president, your future pick in the 2012 Draft is doing everything in the exact opposite of what he should be doing.
To stimulate hiring he should be reducing the cost of doing business for small businesses, but he's not.
The vast majority of the Stealfromus went to Gov't programs either planned or extant. Virtually nothing went to Private Sector(US).
PS I'm not a shill for anyone.
You're starting to sound like Toddard's Twin.
Maybe i should call you TwinDard for short.
Unless you are short and then I could call you TwinTodd.
victor| 12.5.09 @ 9:40PM
Proves that Obama doesn't know HOW to play chess. The object is to defeat the enemy and take the king.
Obama's "strategy" is to give up as many pieces while getting checked himself.
Andrew| 9.10.11 @ 2:26AM
They have to do this i am totally agree with you point. research paper | Assignment
Road Kill| 12.4.09 @ 8:47AM
Such whining on the Commander's part is unsettling. Bite the bullet Obama! You only have two choices. Bring those troops home or go for the win. Playing nice guy gets you no where. In the international big leagues there are only winners and losers, not nice guys or pansies. Oh I forgot! Obama is more interested in subjugating his subjects and reducing them to serfdom than being decisive on foreign policy.
APK| 12.4.09 @ 8:58AM
Wait a minute! I thought the very election of BHO, his worldwide "America Sucks" tour and his warm and fuzzy attitude towards crazy dictators would make the world love us again!!! After all, wasn't this all our fault? CHICKENS COMING HOME TO ROOST? What the hell happened? I thought BHO would buy the world a Coke and we'd all sing in harmony. You mean there's people out there that still hate us? Maybe we should send Jesse Jackson to Afghanistan and do a shakedown,,,,I mean, uh, sensitivity training. After all, if they still hate us, they must be RACISTS!!!
djmelfi| 12.4.09 @ 9:38PM
When your right your right APK, except for a few points Jesse Jackson and the coke part, Jesse buys the Cokes from his son and Obama and Michelle sing in harmony, we send Ralm Emanuel and the rest of the mob to Afghanistan with newspaper and fish to steal Karzai's hat and hold it for ransom until he releases ali baba and the 40 thieves to boil the Taliban in oil.
DJMelfi| 12.4.09 @ 9:41PM
ANOTHER THOUGHT I think it was Gen Curtiss Lemay said "If you kill enough of the SOB's you can win"
djmelfi| 12.4.09 @ 9:45PM
If you kill enough of them, they stop fighting. ~ Curtiss Lemay
Before all ya get after me that's the real quote
S.L. Toddard| 12.4.09 @ 9:02AM
Indeed. Historically it was the Left - Progressives and Liberals - who pushed the US into foreign wars with ideological purposes, i.e. "making the world safe for Democracy", and the anti-state right who opposed these state-expanding crusades. It was a more consistent world then - the Left supported the expansion of government power and the Right opposed it. When the Left wanted to expand government control of the economy, the Right opposed it. When the Left wanted to expand government power over society, the Right opposed it. When the Left wanted to expand government power over the states, the Right opposed it. And when the Left wanted to expand U.S. government power over other nations, the Right opposed it. The Left historically thought of government as a positive, transformational force, whereas the Right considered it a necessary evil, inefficient, prone to abuse of power and not to be trusted. When most of the Right abandoned that principle, America ceased having a major party to fight the expansion of government power, and both sides bought fully into the notion that government is a benevolent force that should be trusted and aggrandized at every turn.
henry| 12.4.09 @ 5:35PM
Intersting perspective, SLT. Your theory is further bolstered by the fact that neither party truly represents the true liberals (not the socialists, progressives and leftists who call themselves "liberal") in the vein of JS Mill and Adams - i.e. limit the scope of govt power, empower the individual.
The Left is full of economic socialists - they want to control your earnings, how you hire, whom you associate with. The Right is full of cultural socialists - they want to control whom you marry, sleep with, worship, etc.
The substantial minority that are real liberals (and have been forced to adopt the mangled term "libertarian) and believe in things like being able to freely trade, engage in commerce, marry, fornicate, worship, etc. no longer have a party to represent our beliefs.
S.L. Toddard| 12.4.09 @ 6:07PM
Libertarianism is not synonymous to classical liberalism, though. Libertarianism is a combination of classical liberalism and moral libertinism, and I'm not sure how aptly it describes JS Mill. As for "Adams", are you speaking of John?
Anyway, I don't know any classical liberal thinkers who condemned the ban on polygamy, for instance. And I would be willing to bet none of them ever spoke out on state laws regulating marriage or anything of the sort. I try to use "liberal" now only when specifically referring to what we now consider "the left" - social justice liberals, "progressives", neoconservatives, socialists - those who are ideologically driven to perpetually increase and centralize wealth and power away from the people and into the hands of the federal government to achieve their ideological ends, at the cost of the rule of law, American virtues and our republican system of government.
victor| 12.4.09 @ 9:32PM
Slo Todd:
"those who are ideologically driven to perpetually increase and centralize wealth and power away from the people and into the hands of the federal government to achieve their ideological ends,"
You really need to cite some sources or names, but you cannot, you know.
Conservatives are the ones who are trying to decentralize the Federal Gov't and reaffirm power to the states via the Tenth Amendment and thereby keeping the Feds out of our business.
S.L. Toddard| 12.5.09 @ 9:02AM
"You really need to cite some sources or names, but you cannot, you know."
Names of what?
"Conservatives are the ones who are trying to decentralize the Federal Gov't and reaffirm power to the states via the Tenth Amendment and thereby keeping the Feds out of our business."
Did I say anything to contradict that?
victor| 12.5.09 @ 2:34PM
Are you this obtuse by nature or did you have to go to school for it?
I asked for citations to back up your assertion that Conservatives, not Nonnies, such as yourself, agree with the goals of Lefists a nd Socialists?
victor| 12.5.09 @ 2:43PM
I forgot, but you have more in common with the Current Occupant of the White House than you realize.
Obama doesn't believe in meddling in other countries affairs and neither do you.
Obama believes in Moral Relativism and so do you.
Obama doesn't believe in American Exceptionalism and so do you.
Obama believes that we deserved to get hit on 9/11 for meddling and apparently you do too.
Obama believes that enemy non-combatants are entitled to the same rights that regular Americans have and so do you.
Obama believes he a smooth talker and sparkling intellect and you believe that you do too.
Obama doesn't believ that there is anything special about being an American and so do you.
Obama believes that we should speak out, but not act and so do you.
There are, of course more, to illustrate that you and he have many of the same goals.
victor| 12.5.09 @ 9:32PM
I forgot the most important ones:
Obama says he is a "Christian", but says and does things that a real Christian wouldn't say or do, as does Toddard.
Obama denies he is an anti-semite and so does Toddard.
Obama reveals himself when he gives support to Hamas, Hezbollah and the Muslim Brotherhood and yes, Toddard does too.
Obama would rather do everything but support Israel and no surprise, so does Toddard.
When it comes to Israel, they both wish to throw her to the lions.
S.L. Toddard| 12.6.09 @ 11:00AM
Hitler believed in the "exceptionalism" of his country, so does Victor.
Hitler believed in the conquest of foreign peoples, so does Victor.
Hitler believed his country was not bound by international law, so does Victor.
Hitler believed his country's goal was so noble - indeed, so holy - that he believed war crimes were justified, so does Victor.
Hitler believed the people should worship Authority, so does Victor.
Hitler cheered on the slaughter of those he considered subhuman, so does Victor.
Hitler believed Might Makes Right, so does Victor.
Hitler believed his country had an exceptional mission to rule the world, so does Victor.
Hitler never would have been what he was, had Germany not been full of Victors.
Would you like to play this stupid game some more? It's not very instructive.
victor| 12.6.09 @ 9:34PM
I believe that someone here said that if you mention Hitler, you're automatically disqualified.
That was you, and so you are.
The first thing you did was pull the Hitler card from your sleeve.
Out of all of the 100's of terrorists, tyrants and thugs, you go right to Hitler, which is the first thing that liberals do.
So, I suppose, that makes you kindred spirits with them, eh?
S.L. Toddard| 12.6.09 @ 10:45AM
"I asked for citations to back up your assertion that Conservatives, not Nonnies, such as yourself, agree with the goals of Lefists a nd Socialists?"
You misread me, friend. I never said conservatives agree with the goals of leftists and socialists. Quite the contrary. What I said was that *neoconservatives* - a better term would be "anti-conservatives", as they are as antagonistic to conservatives as Abbie Hoffman ever was - are, like their fellow travelers on the Left, ideologically driven to perpetually increase and centralize wealth and power away from the people and into the hands of the federal government to achieve their ideological ends, at the cost of the rule of law, American virtues and our republican system of government.
That's part of what *defines* an American conservative - opposing statist radicalism. And supporting statist radicalism (or radical statism) is an important part of what defines the Left (social justice liberals, "progressives", neoconservatives, socialists, etc).
S.L. Toddard| 12.6.09 @ 11:32AM
For both you, Victor, and 1FreeMan:
So, we are led to believe by interventionist neoconservatives and others, the choice is between the John McCain and George W. Bush approach that would have America involved everywhere fighting for democracy and justice.
And, on the other hand, we have the “internationalist” approach of Barack Obama, which also wants to be involved in the world, but shows contempt not only for America’s military and diplomatic power, but contempt for all distinctive aspects of America, such as free markets and limited government, an historical people of mostly European ancestry, a history of very charitable treatment of the defeated in foreign conflicts, and an historical desire to maintain sovereignty and independence.
Missing from this false dichotomy, and the political scene generally, is a true nationalist voice that is neither excessively indebted to nor overly influenced by or concerned with the rest of the world. A humble view that is aware of our limitations and jealous of our advantages. A view that does not seek to manage or influence the world with the exception chiefly of providing a good example to others and protecting what is ours.
America’s foreign policy and sense of self was, to some extent, permanently altered by its heading down the wrong road in World War I. That was the war “to make the world safe for democracy” where our elites’ first widely embraced the idea that we should be transforming the world to make the rest of it more like America. It’s not clear this sunk very deep in ordinary Americans’ consciousness. It took Pearl Harbor for America to get involved in World War II, in spite of FDR’s best efforts, and the Cold War was largely understood as a unique threat that called for a unique response by Americans fearful of domination by an aggressive internationalist ideology. Even then, Americans desire not to get too involved in unnecessary conflict eventually led to an early withdrawal from Vietnam and a more practical approach of containment, with a special emphasis on our backyard in the Western Hemisphere. In any case, regardless of the merits and rhetoric of that lengthy detour, the world changed dramatically with the fall of the Soviet Union, and Americans more or less remained aloof from and only mildly supportive of our activities overseas in the 1990s.
With the 9/11 attacks, like Pearl Harbor, Americans widely called for tribal revenge for our murdered countrymen. Bush and Obama both have misread the cause of this attack as the lack of American-style institutions overseas, and Bush in particular sought in its aftermath to make the spreading of democracy in the Middle East by force of American arms the central strategy, even when ordinary revenge attacks would have sufficed for his conservative supporters. Some conservatives, liberals, and moderates all eventually soured on the nation-building approach in Iraq in particular. Obama now has scaled back these ambitions, even as he desires to get foreigners and international institutions more involved in controlling America and its policies, whether on carbon output or the use of force and much else. His incoherence reflects this tradition of division between foreign involvement as “savior of the world” and its equally liberal counterpart in the form of deference to the UN and suspicion of American unilateralism of all types.
What neoconservatives and liberals both reject is the tradition of American non-interventionism. The distinct American tradition is one of avoidance of controlling and being controlled by foreigners. It stretches from George Washington’s Farewell Address and the Monroe Doctrine, to the so-called Know-Nothings, and more recently to Charles Lindbergh, Robert Taft, and Pat Buchanan. It has been the abiding idiom of American conservatism. It is the real exceptionalism because, in addressing the uses of American power, it does not seek domination of others whether from the will to power or the missionary impulse to transform the rest of the world. Its ideas on the use of force are largely defensive and focused on the preservation of the American way of life. It’s a view largely absent from both parties, yet it finds support in what is likely a majority of working class ethnic whites, business-oriented conservatives, many Vietnam veterans, as well as a swath of anti-war Americans who come from a variety of traditions.
The nationalist is against the proposed surge in Afghanistan (and was against saving the anarchy of Somalia or liberating the supposedly victimized Kosovars) not because such acts are an evil to these people–to them, they are probably on balance a good–but because such activity distracts us from our chief concern, which is our own flourishing as a people and the protection of a distinct way of life from foreign attack and excessive foreign influence. This older tradition has the benefit of being more just, less costly, and more consistent with free institutions and fiscal austerity than the so-called “American exceptionalism” of the bellicose neoconservatives.
http://mansizedtarget.com/2009.....tionalism/
victor| 12.6.09 @ 9:47PM
Personally I prefer a president who believes that
the United States, as "leader of the free world", must support democracy worldwide and fight against totalitarianism.
The United States should provide political, military and economic assistance to all democratic nations under threat from external or internal authoritarian forces.
You, "my friend", may continue to hide under your daybed.
victor| 12.6.09 @ 9:40PM
You can call yourself what ever you want pally, but you don't get to define me. Call yourself a paleo, primitive, prehistoric for all I care, just don't call yourself a conservative.
Stay in your own little corner of fthe world, lock the doors and shut the windows. You'll be safe, for a while.
Just remember the mahdi and the global caliphate.
The next knock you hear won't be Domino's.
Better to kill them there, than on our front porch.
It will be too late then.
victor| 12.4.09 @ 9:28PM
It boils down to this:
All human activity is a financial transaction.
You want drugs, I have them.
You want sex, I'll get it for you.
You want to play craps, I'll give you odds.
You want some "merchandise", show me the money.
You want to "marry" your boy friend, name the day and I'll get you hitched.
Every man has his price, I'll see that you get paid.
No Rules, No Laws, and certainly No Morality.
That about sums up what you two "gentlemen" believe.
JoshInHB| 12.5.09 @ 4:19AM
Bu11sh1t,
God gave us freedom and its not an option for any government or majority to take it way.
State Worship is for progs, not conservatives.
If the fed governemt is large enough to civilize midevil muslim countries then it is also able to force its will on us.
victor| 12.5.09 @ 2:31PM
God gave us Liberty, not License, which is "freedom to do whatever you want.
Libertarians do not believe in laws governing any of the things I listed.
You apparently don't either.
BTW i thought you were an Nonnie, a non-interventionist, why are you butting in?
Right and Wrong are not subject to negotitiation.
victor| 12.5.09 @ 2:46PM
JoshinHB:
"Bu**sh*t,"
Ah, yes, the "freedom" to use profanity.
Thank the ACLU for that.
There are three million words to use and you are reduced to using that one.
S.L. Toddard| 12.5.09 @ 9:04AM
"That about sums up what you two "gentlemen" believe."
You seem to be new to this site so I'll let this pass, but that is certainly not what I believe.
victor| 12.5.09 @ 2:32PM
I know what you believe regardless of what you claim.
Andrew| 9.10.11 @ 2:28AM
We all know this about believe and claim. Dissertation
Betty| 12.5.09 @ 8:50AM
Henry,
Wow. Interesting! I have always viewed "the left" as extreme liberals
But your description of the left is something I've never considered or frankly heard discussed.
Worth consideration as it takes much of the MSM stigma away, exposing what sounds awfully like the "moderate" or centerist right who wish the same things, at least those I know and talk to.
There may be more agreement between the left you describe and the right I know than you I had previously imagined. The great majority of them also wish to freely trade, engage in commerce, marry etc...without the gov't interference of any kind.
They too feel the no longer have a party that represents them.
You just expanded the definition of "mainstream" exponentially. Obviously we need a new dialog free of passe labels and the political baggage they carry.
I hope others will see this post as a way to engage in a new discourse in the current "all or nothing" political climate.
S.L. Toddard| 12.4.09 @ 9:13AM
Good news for America First conservatives:
"Isolationism among Americans is at highest level in 40 years"
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/.....-usfp.html
victor| 12.4.09 @ 9:29PM
Yes, time to stick your head in the sand,
hide in the closet or run down to your bomb shelter.
Cancel your trip to Lourdes, and stay home
and wait for the world to beat a path to your door.
Knock knock.
Who's there?
Mustapha from Domino's.
Wait, I didn't order any....
Tick, tick, tick.....BOOOOM!
GeorgieGirl| 12.4.09 @ 9:13AM
To SLl Toddard
I see you're BACK!!!
What the hell are you talking about?
Margie| 12.4.09 @ 12:55PM
He's in his own little fortess America/Ivory tower as usual calling the Left the Right, and the Right the Left. Etc. etc. etc.
victor| 12.4.09 @ 9:40PM
He doesn't know what he is talking about.
and you can include:
Right for Wrong,
and up for down.
He has the furniture upstairs re-arranged in the wrong rooms.
Half the time he doesn't know who he is and the other half doesn't know where he is.
Walden| 12.4.09 @ 9:30AM
While I generally support a surge of some sort in Afghanistan, I think BHO is doing our brave troops a great disservice here. He is proposing the most cynical and cold-hearted strategy he could possibly come up with; he is half-assedly committing 3/4 of the troops requested by the men who know best, only to try to appeal to those on both his left and his right in order to save his skinny little butt. What a jerk. History will judge this little man very harshly indeed.
Blackwatch 5.56 Voter| 12.4.09 @ 9:47PM
Well said.
1FreeMan| 12.4.09 @ 11:47AM
As a soldier in recent receipt of orders back to Afghanistan I can tell you I have little confidence in the decisions being made to support the effort. Unmanageable limitations on the execution of the war, aka: McNamara, are as much a problem as the number of combatants on the ground. Too many analysts on the ground and too few forward thinking and unencumbered leaders in the field. Don't get me wrong: there are great men in senior positions... but with their hands tied by policy they are having trouble fighting the war. Manpower issues with this administration as one example.
I can tell you authoritatively that NGO’ s on the ground are all but worthless. USAID, as an example, is squandering or outright stealing millions and millions of dollars. Building a little mud hut without even a door on it and then billing the State Department $200,000.00 claiming that they have built a functioning hospital is outright criminal! There is much wrong in Afghanistan and the current administration is sweeping that responsibility under the rug.
Telling the world we will be out of Afghanistan in 18 months is irresponsible. Gee whiz, Mr. President, thanks for embolding the enemy right before I deploy. Thanks a bunch, Sir!
John II| 12.4.09 @ 12:55PM
It seems pretty obvious, and not just to me, that Professor Obama's "strategy," so to speak, is strictly and exclusively political. That's all he knows anything about and all he cares about.
He's keeping the really serious foreign policy calls on the back burner for as long as he can--shorting the military's request by 10,000 troops is just a way to remind everyone, perhaps especially himself, that America's security depends on his whims.
All he cares about is the opportunity to play in his domestic-policy sandbox, and he's apparently calculated that he has only another 18 months before he'll need to start softening up the brain-stems of the electorate for 2012: that's what the ludicrous announcement of a pull-out date is about. If he keeps Afghanistan churning away half-assed without any decisive victory or turn-around, American isolationism will expand well beyond the 49 percent mark it's already reached, and then he can look statesmanlike and play up to the voters when he dumps Afghanistan in the summer of 2011, thus ginning up his prospects to be returned to his sandbox for another term.
Not that things will turn out that way. But given the Professor's track record so far, it's pretty clear what he has in mind.
Big J| 12.4.09 @ 9:52PM
I'll pray for you tonight, 1FreeMan.
God bless you sir, and all your brothers and sisters as well.
Ken (Old Texican)| 12.5.09 @ 12:20PM
1 Free man
I ask God's blessings on you and your mates as well, sir.
Keep them on their heels over there, and keep buying us some time. Maybe sanity here shall yet prevail.
Thank you.
S.L. Toddard| 12.4.09 @ 12:26PM
The great Andrew Bacevich has a piece in the LA Times everyone should read. It's called "Obama's Folly." Here's an excerpt:
"What Afghanistan tells us is that rather than changing Washington, Obama has become its captive. The president has succumbed to the twin illusions that have taken the political class by storm in recent months. The first illusion, reflecting a self-serving interpretation of the origins of 9/11, is that events in Afghanistan are crucial to the safety and well-being of the American people. The second illusion, the product of a self-serving interpretation of the Iraq War, is that the U.S. possesses the wisdom and wherewithal to guide Afghanistan out of darkness and into the light.
According to the first illusion, 9/11 occurred because Americans ignored Afghanistan. By implication, fixing the place is essential to preventing the recurrence of terrorist attacks on the U.S. In Washington, the appeal of this explanation is twofold. It distracts attention from the manifest incompetence of the government agencies that failed on 9/11, while also making it unnecessary to consider how U.S. policy toward the Middle East during the several preceding decades contributed to the emergence of violent anti-Western jihadism.
According to the second illusion, the war in Iraq is ending in a great American victory. Forget the fact that the arguments advanced to justify the invasion of March 2003 have all turned out to be bogus: no Iraqi weapons of mass destruction found; no substantive links between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda established; no tide of democratic change triggered across the Islamic world. Ignore the persistence of daily violence in Iraq even today.
The "surge" engineered by Army Gen. David H. Petraeus in Iraq enables proponents of that war to change the subject and to argue that the counterinsurgency techniques employed in Iraq can produce similar results in Afghanistan -- disregarding the fact that the two places bear about as much resemblance to one another as North Dakota does to Southern California.
So the war launched as a prequel to Iraq now becomes its sequel, with little of substance learned in the interim. To double down in Afghanistan is to ignore the unmistakable lesson of Bush's thoroughly discredited "global war on terror": Sending U.S. troops to fight interminable wars in distant countries does more to inflame than to extinguish the resentments giving rise to violent anti-Western jihadism."
http://freedomsyndicate.com/fa.....00072.html
John II| 12.4.09 @ 1:02PM
The meek John II responds thus to the great Bacevich: Nuts.
S.L. Toddard| 12.4.09 @ 2:51PM
Would "thusly" work there as well, or is that not actually a word?
John II| 12.4.09 @ 3:44PM
The form "thusly" is rejected by the great majority of stylists as morphologically redundant, the equivalent of "alsoly" (i.e., also + ly), since the word "thus" is already adverbial, having come down directly to us from Middle English with an ablaut shift on the demonstrative "this."
On the other hand, "thusly" does indeed occur now and then to a achieve a mock-stylish effect, often of parallelism ("His response was rendered not graciously but rather thusly: etc."), on which account I might perhaps have used the form, inasmuch as I was indeed mocking the great Bacevich--or rather, mocking his faux-apodictic expression.
Lest I be misunderstood, then, allow me to repeat my thorough refutation: Nuts!
S.L. Toddard| 12.4.09 @ 5:46PM
That's interesting. Thanks!
1FreeMan| 12.4.09 @ 9:11PM
Toddard,
As I have pointed out many times: you don't know what you are talking about.
The Muslim population of the world truly and honestly want the USA destroyed. Even contract employees on the bases in the war zone, those who have passed security clearance measures, want all Christians dead. Please, for cryin out loud, get a clue. Given the opportunity every muslim in the world will kill anyone that is not a fellow muslim.
P-E-R-I-O-D!
It is in the Koran. They believe it. The US is not safe as long as poppie fileds grow and drug money is available to buy muslims weapons.
Toddard is NOT AN AUTHORITY on anything on this war!
Andrew P| 12.5.09 @ 7:35AM
What you say is true. The People of Islam want power and revenge more than anything else in the world. They would gladly sacrifice the entire planet just to have the pleasure of watching Israel and the USA destroyed. Therefore, there is only one solution to Af-Pak and Iran. We must pull out (probably with a lot of holding actions in the interim) while we do a covert space operation to divert a 1/2 mile diameter asteroid from the inner solar system and make it collide with the point where Iran, Afghanistan, and Pakistan meet. If covertness can be maintained, it would be both deniable and a truly suprise attack with a yield of tens of millions of megatons.
But diverting asteroids will take 10 years at least. Until then we need (1) to engineer a plant virus that will get rid of opium poppies (2) much more massive use of drones, and we need better armed drones that can hover for long periods while shooting targets from the air (3) we need to hunt down and kill Bin Laden (4) we need to stage a big nuclear accident in Iran (5) Israel needs to cleanse the Palestinians the way Andrew Jackson dealt with the Cherokee.
S.L. Toddard| 12.5.09 @ 9:07AM
"Given the opportunity every muslim in the world will kill anyone that is not a fellow muslim."
Thank you for this. I can now happily ignore anything you write from this point on, since you have revealed yourself to be a bug-eyed lunatic.
victor| 12.5.09 @ 9:26PM
Go read their "holy" book, they are all waiting for the twelfth mahdi to return and impose a worldwide caliphate and sharia law.
This proves that "you have revealed yourself to be a bug-eyed lunatic."
1FreeMan| 12.6.09 @ 8:52AM
Toddard,
There you are again, sitting in you mommies basement waiting for your cookies. Poor thing.
Have you been to the warzone? No? Oh.. I see. So you spout lies you got from MSNBC and CBS and think it is fact. It is too late for you to get a clue: how about you just get LOST.
We all so enjoyed those last few days when you were gone.
victor| 12.5.09 @ 9:23PM
Actually, you are only partially right:
"Toddard is NOT AN AUTHORITY on anything"
victor| 12.5.09 @ 9:23PM
Actually, you are only partially right:
"Toddard is NOT AN AUTHORITY on anything"
Margie| 12.4.09 @ 1:08PM
I've always liked Dana Rohrabacher. When I used to watch C-Span and see him always standing up and speaking the truth without fear. It was amazing to me because he really stood out from most. To read what he said about not sending the additional troops is just another shot of reality. My hubby told me the General actually originally wanted to send 80,000 more troops. Couldn't we have had a chance then? It tells me that, along with 1Freeman's post, and Old Tex's too, (and not just here in this little article or just these 2 posts,) but this just brings home the point that Obummer is basically a lukewarm should I say it? coward, and that he will be sending these fine men and women off to the slaughter.
I am so sad for our country. And so very sorry. :^(
Margie| 12.4.09 @ 1:18PM
(please don't misunderstand my post.. I am not disagreeing with Mr. Rohrabacher or 1Freeman, or Tex, in fact I am conceding, that sadly it is all true. If we don't go in fighting with what we need, how can we get the job done). That's what I meant.
1FreeMan| 12.4.09 @ 9:16PM
Margie,
Thanks for the clairification. The issues are complex. Short of the free world's willingness to admit that this is the opening salvo of a global jihad we will never win. We may find a suitable exit strategedy and console our selves that the Afghan nation is better than we found it but in time corruption and the Taliban will erase all we have done. Sorry... truth to fact.
Margie| 12.5.09 @ 9:00PM
I know 1FreeMan, and I'm so sorry. I'm sorry that we have a coward and a snake for a President, and I'm sorry we have other slithering lizards in here who treat you like garbage. They are the refuse. Toddard has not one iota of honor. You are the man with honor. Thank you again for your service to our country, for defending it. For doing the work while the low life gets to post his lies day and night. he won't be forgotten about by the True One. And I'm not talking about Obama.
Take care and God bless.
You'll be in our prayers.
Margie & Victor
1FreeMan| 12.6.09 @ 8:57AM
M&V,
Thank you. You know I do this for you, for my children, and for the rest of the families who are so proud of our Country. We are continuing to build a great society where freedom is our foundation. Toddard and a loud select few on this board want to tear it down. We won't let them. And, yes, he will answer if that is God's plan.
Your prayers are appreciated.
I wish I could think of a way to connect with people outside of this forum without compromising my security to loosers like Toddard. Ideas?
S.L. Toddard| 12.6.09 @ 11:05AM
"I wish I could think of a way to connect with people outside of this forum without compromising my security to loosers like Toddard. Ideas?"
I have an idea: "loser" only has one "o".
victor| 12.6.09 @ 9:51PM
I hear the're going to cast you, Toddy, as the lead in the new episode of Worlds Biggest Looooooooser!
You're not fit to shine Freeman's shoes or any or his furniture, for that matter.
While you sleep under your bed at night, Freeman goes out and defends our country against enemies, Foreign and Domestic.
Have a nice snooze, Toddy!
victor| 12.6.09 @ 9:51PM
I hear the're going to cast you, Toddy, as the lead in the new episode of Worlds Biggest Looooooooser!
You're not fit to shine Freeman's shoes or any or his furniture, for that matter.
While you sleep under your bed at night, Freeman goes out and defends our country against enemies, Foreign and Domestic.
Have a nice snooze, Toddy!
Margie| 12.6.09 @ 2:14PM
Toddard definitely knows how to spell loser.
********* ********* ****** ******
Michael Tomlinson| 12.4.09 @ 1:36PM
It is gratifying to see Obama, by copying George W. Bush's surge policy, implicitly crediting him with victory in Iraq. Unfortunately, Barack Obama is no George W. Bush (a tough no nonsense leader and real man). Instead, Barack the Lame, is a warmed over version of Jimmy Carter so defeat in Afghanistan is now a real possibility.
While defeat in Afghanistan would hearten jihadists, the Taliban, al Qaeda, Michael Moore, Kossaks, Obamacons (like Bruce Bartlett & Peggy Noonan), the Pork King Ron Paul and the paleo-cons it will spell bad news for the US and the men and women who protect her. Because failed Democrat foreign policies eventually lead to trouble for the US -- illustrated by the failures of Democrats Wilson, Truman, Kennedy, LBJ, Carter and Clinton.
War is a not a "game" or political ploy to distract from an failing Presidency like Obama's. It is serious business and unless one is willing to win should be avoided. Obama has already made it clear he doesn't believe in victory so he is merely posturing as a war leader when in his heart he's at gutless as the average American arm chair commando.
While it is understandable Republicans, who want to win in Afghanistan, are sympathetic to the surge they should be wary of becoming cheerleaders for Obama and his tepid response to Muslim terrorism and imperialism.
Hopefully, despite Obama our troops can salvage victory from the Democrat's jaws of defeat in 18 months. If this is impossible due to the leadership of the Vagina-in-Chief then Republicans need to stand ready to oppose him and point out this is just another failed strategy of America's worst President (sorry Carter it is now time to surrender that title to your heir).
While having zero confidence in Barack the Appeaser and Democrats I do have faith in a 19 year old Marine with an M4 and lots of .556 mm ammunition. Left to their own devices America's military can win in Afghanistan. Prayerfully, Obama want do for the war what he's done for our economy.
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Howdy Duddy| 12.4.09 @ 4:36PM
Okay, I've decided to join the rest of the democrat nut cases. Global warming is gonna kill us all, a tsunami will next kill us. I'm straight but should go queer to be a democrat. I work for my money but now will steal from the workers. I buy my own food but now I want food stamps. Money is earned but now I'm black and money falls from the sky because of king obama. I have scientific data to support my conclusions but now as a democrat I just make unsupported assertion just so I can tax the hell out of the productive workers. I work independent. Now I'm in a union and let ghettofinger do my thinking because I'm just to stupid to think on my own. I was a republican now I'm a democrat. NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT
S.L. Toddard| 12.4.09 @ 7:18PM
This reads like satire composed by a mentally handicapped beat poet.
John II| 12.4.09 @ 8:56PM
The term "mentally handicapped beat poet" is also, like "thusly," redundant. But I think I can follow Howdy's point, since I've pulled the same stunt myself with some of my lefty acquaintances. The bewildered response is very gratifying.
If we're on our way to hell in a handbasket, we may as well have some fun with the gruesome journey. Go for it, Howdy.
victor| 12.4.09 @ 9:45PM
If we are going to Hell, let it be in a stretch Hummer with Toddard as the driver.
That way when we get there and are driving through the gates, we can all get out while Toddard and those in front will proceed without us.
larsky| 12.4.09 @ 6:04PM
How did that go....Oh Yes...
Then the commander said "If you have a rattle snake in the room, you only have two choices. Kill it or leave the room and shut the door. Playing with its' tail is not an option".
Good Luck Mr. Obama. Hope you enjoy poking the tail.
Ret. Marine| 12.7.09 @ 8:38AM
Larsky, the true tail this pretender-n-theif of anything American is playing with is We the People and our patience. I along with my entire clan are getting real short of acceptence and tolarance for this fraud, as I suspect most are.
WilliamInWien| 12.4.09 @ 6:05PM
What is lost in all the "strategy" is a fundamental fact that Afghanistan is NOT a state, does not have a national identity and people identify themselves by what their tribal affiliation is. Same in Western Pakistan. Any increase in the power of the central government (such as it is) will come at the expense of tribal leader power, and that will not happen easily. Anyone can set a withdrawal date as long as they do not set requirements for withdrawal. This is NOT looking good for our military. Oh! And the poppy is not the crop of choice because the farmer cannot get his wheat crop to market as an administration official claimed. Simply put, there is a higher profit to be gained by cultivating the poppy with no taxes paid to the central govenment.
Blackwatch 5.56 voter| 12.4.09 @ 10:02PM
The Afghani tribes that are not of the Taliban Pashtun descent (please forgive my spelling if it is in error) need to find a Monarch in the true 8th Century sense. Support his Kingship and slaughter their rivals once and for all. Defeat them in battle and hear the lamentation of their women. All of this build a democracy fluff is crap.
They need a leader who cuts heads off and sticks them on poles to remind his enemies that he has lieges that will do as he commands. Afghanistan is a bitter place to live or die. Americans should not be dieing there.
Ken (Old Texican)| 12.5.09 @ 12:27PM
William,
Perhaps we could help the Afghans form a uniquely Afghan "federal republic"...ie: let each tribe become a "State" within a state, and tend to their own business except for national defense.
...It pretty much worked for us for a hundred years.
TheEnforcer| 12.4.09 @ 6:10PM
'
It seems to me it's getting to such a point, the DemocRATS will impeach Obama.
'
Jack Davis| 12.4.09 @ 6:13PM
After taking nearly an eternity to make the only decision he COULD make under the circumstances, Obama shortchanges McChrystal (Obama's OWN man on the ground) by 25 percent.
Can 2012 come soon enough?
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After months and months of dithering showing the Taliban, Murdering terrorists, and other adversaries that Obama is weak and indecisive, he come out with this split the baby Vietnam solution. He gives his Generals 3/4 of the support they told him they needed, and then told them, and the entire world, that about they time they actually get their and start doing any good he is going to pull them back out again??? Can you imagine what the murdering terrorists and Taliban think???
Ret. Marine| 12.7.09 @ 8:42AM
Yes, I'm afraid they understand this as much as do the average American Patriot, he's a coward and they will take the ball and run with it. The qestion remains, are we prepared for what might happen?
Jay| 12.4.09 @ 10:07PM
This "weak" and "dithering" President, made a choice to escalate a war that's "muddled along" most of the last eight years...He asked for input from all of his advisors....He informed allies without asking them for their advise...He made his case for a "tired" war to a "tired" consituency who were largely AGAINST escalation...He made the case soberly (there's no "Patton speeches" for 8 year old wars) which has garnered the support of a majority of Americans, based on polls post-speech....He stood against the headwind of the "Great Recession" and a "record deficit", to double down on the 20K troops he added BEFORE McChrystal took over...He faced off against his own party who won't win ANY votes by supporting this war..........Of course, I don't expect the Obama-bashers, dressed as "Conservatives", to stand up and cheer but...it's pretty sad when instead of giving him credit for courage; the author decides to "politicize" an expansion which has not even been EXECUTED yet. How lame!
John II| 12.4.09 @ 11:04PM
Yes--lame, Jay. Will you remember your lame response when the summer of 2011 arrives?
victor| 12.4.09 @ 11:24PM
To quote Chris Rock:
(heavily sanitized, of course)
"You know the worst thing about democrats? Democrats always want credit for some normal accomplishment they supposed to do. A democrat will brag about some normal accomplishment a normal republican president just does. A democrat president will say something like, "I take care of my troops." You're supposed to, you dumb democrat! What kind of ignorant nonsense is that? "I ain't never lost a war!" What do you want, a cookie?! You're not supposed to lose a war, you low-expectation-having democrat president! "
Ken (Old Texican)| 12.5.09 @ 12:31PM
Folks, I shamelessly copy/pasted my comment above and stuck it here... Heh! I might have stumbled on a bright idea.
William,
Perhaps we could help the Afghans form a uniquely Afghan "federal republic"...ie: let each tribe become a "State" within a state, and tend to their own business except for national defense.
...It pretty much worked for us for a hundred years.
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Maybe Obama is respnsible for all of these here Affican Pingabacks, eh?
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That's right. And you don't say that unless you are one.
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