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Among the Intellectualoids

The Neopagan Temptation

By on 10.13.09 @ 6:04AM

Philip Davis’s 1998 study exposed the flim-flam behind the Mother Goddess movement.

Goddess Unmasked: The Rise of Neopagan Feminist Spirituality
By Philip G. Davis (Spence Publishing, 1998)

In this book Professor Philip G. Davis, a Canadian academic, proves with compelling scholarship that the present-day “goddess” cults have no detectable linkage with any ancient pagan beliefs. Apart from being anti-Christian anyway, they have no association with even the traditions and dignity of classical paganism.

Advocates of “goddess” and other feminist and New Age religions have generally tried to claim some ancientry behind their beliefs. However, on investigation this dissolves. Evidence for the worship of a great or supreme Mother Goddess in the ancient world or in ancient Europe simply does not exist. The story that modern witchcraft cults are the descendants of something sometimes called “the old religion” (which has allegedly been slandered and driven underground by the oppressive forces of Christianity) is false and manufactured.

In fact, this book shows that while these cults generally have the usual heritage of Gnosticism to be found in most Christian heresies, the ideas behind them were concocted by occultists  largely men — mostly in the last couple of centuries. Those responsible included as unsavory a collection of disordered cranks, mountebanks, sexual predators and crooks as might be imagined.

The very best were perhaps little worse than ridiculous. One of the saner and actually less unwholesome examples (compared to some) was the French artist Ganneau. He founded a movement called “Evadism,” combining “Adam” and “Eve” in its title, and styled himself “The Great Mapah,” combining — you guessed it! — “Ma” and “Pa.” As Davis tells it: “Garbed in a grey felt hat, a smock, and clogs, he preached eloquently of love, human fraternity and sexual equality and wrote condescending letters to the Pope.” Then there were two pioneers of goddess-worship who joined the Alpha and Omega Lodge: “the two feuded, however, and engaged in psychic and magical battles with each other in which cats were strangely prominent. Fortune accused Mrs. Mathers of inflicting a plague of cats on her house by occult means and, after fighting one out-of-body battle on the astral plane reported finding cat scratches all over her back.”

This book provides additional evidence for the fact that people who adopt one crank belief tend not to let it go at that, but to gradually adopt the whole spectrum of them, whether they are compatible with one another or not. Fairly innocent, or at least naïve, sandal-wearers and vegetarian cultists could link up with practitioners of full-blown Satanism. The 19th-century occultist and neopagan movements from which modern goddess-worship sprang had links with the origins of both communism and Nazism.

The wicca cult in England, far from being ancient, appears to have been the creation of one Gerald Gardner, who died only in 1964 (typically, claiming a doctorate from the University of Singapore from a date before it existed), and who was an associate of the Satanist Alister Crowley. It was Gardner who concocted the spurious figure of nine million alleged victims of witch hunts. Much of English wicca actually seems concerned with men getting women to take their clothes off (The late great English satirist Peter Simple created in his Daily Telegraph column gallery of targets a “thoroughly nice” British coven with Satan dropping in for tea and seed-cakes.)

Davis points out that these goddess cults have made considerable inroads into the mainstream Christian Churches, including parts of the Catholic Church, particularly in the U.S. and Canada:

Where God the Father is supplemented by God the Mother, it seems the Mother Goddess is rarely far behind. Her appeal crosses many boundaries. In the larger denominations today, it is not only women in small groups who welcome her. Male theologians with international reputations have spoken up in her cause; some of the more prominent names include the Rev. Matthew Fox of “creation spirituality” fame, and Professor Harvey Cox, the erstwhile secular theologian of Harvard Divinity School.

Fox, an ex-Catholic priest, believes the Madonna was black and has employed a witch named Starhawk on his staff.

In 1993 Pope John Paul II warned American Catholic bishops against the sort of gender-polarizing feminism which seems to be a first step towards goddess-worship. The “Reimagining” conference held in Minneapolis that year was, Davis says: “an interdenominational assembly of Christians openly bent on destroying the historic Christian religion root and branch, and steering the churches into wholesale neopaganism.”

Davis’s scholarship leaves nothing standing of the notion that goddess-worship is an authentic religion. It is the invention of latter-day crooks, cranks and creeps. This book is both a valuable historical survey of the great currents of occultism which have had more influence of the modern world than is sometimes appreciated, and a valuable mental disinfectant.

About the Author

Hal G.P. Colebatch’s “Immram,” Counterstrike, is being published by Australian publisher Imaginites.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (151) |

gerald brennan| 10.13.09 @ 6:26AM

Mr. Colebatch is assigning a sex to God. He thinks God is a male. He believes that God, the One God, the great and all-inclusive everything of the universe, has a male sex. The loonyness of this view ought to be evident to most readers, but let's spell it out.
As humans we like to split everything in the universe into opposites, like male/female, yin/yang, positive/negative, active/passive, etc. This has many philosophical and practical applications. But to assign to the One God a male sex, and to deny the female sex participation, indeed to rage against it by illustrating his thesis with some of the great want-wits of history, is puerile. It shows a lack of perception and a not-so-subtle misogyny, that I wonder what in the name of God this low-brow drivel is doing in AmSpec?
God is One. Not artificially split in order to illustrate and pedal our fears and prejudices.

Sheryl| 10.13.09 @ 11:34AM

Yes, Mr. Brennan, loony as can be, just as Jesus Himself illustrated His own looniness by referring to His Heavenly Father so many times, and by teaching us to pray, beginning with "Our Father." What a low-brow nutball.

Joshua Berkowitz | 10.15.09 @ 12:25AM

Right on Sheryl, Jesus was quite the nut case! He taught people to think for themselves, to forgive prostitutes, and to pay loads of taxes. Let's not forget that he raised the dead, cursed pigs and figs, and talked in riddles all day. Isn't it just insane to believe in all that New Age crap?!

See, Jesus was a New Age hippie. He preached a NEW, INVENTED religious way. He didn't have any connections to some extant Messiah-worshiping cult. The Jews rejected him as their guy and so did a lot of Pagans, the only other local religious group. How is Christianity more valid? It isn't. And this kind of article shows the ignorance and arrogance of a few who fear the movements of many. (Wicca is now the fastest growing religion in the United States and most other countries where English is a widely spoken language.)

Margie| 10.15.09 @ 3:26PM

"Wicca is now the fastest growing religion in the United States and most other countries" It doesn't mean a thing! ~~
"Jesus Christ. the same yesterday and today, even to the ages." Heb. 13:8.
And~ "Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham came into being, I AM." Jn. 8:58.
And~ "Jesus said to her, I am the Resurrection and the Life, The one believing into Me, though he die, he shall live. Jn. 11:25.
And~ "The one believing into Him is not condemned; but the one not believing already has been condemned, for he has not believed into the name of the only begotten Son of God," Jn. 3:18.
The choice is yours.

Alan Brooks| 10.13.09 @ 8:21PM

Brennan is right, we gots to loosen up, chickie babes, at my new Church of the Bi Goddess.

Donations-- unmarked lower demomination bills
-- accepted 24/7 by Reverend Alan Brooks.

Alan Brooks| 10.13.09 @ 8:23PM

deMoMination? hmm, not too bad.

See you all on Sunday morning.

Orwell| 10.13.09 @ 7:01AM

Thanks to Mr. Davis for exposing these phony religions.

"Davis's scholarship leaves nothing standing of the notion that goddess-worship is an authentic religion. It is the invention of latter-day crooks, cranks and creeps."

On cue Mr. Brennan shows up with his modern invention. The only question left, is he a crook a crank or a creep?

Paul D| 10.13.09 @ 8:45AM

I found this comment interesting:

"This book provides additional evidence for the fact that people who adopt one crank belief tend not to let it go at that, but to gradually adopt the whole spectrum of them, whether they are compatible with one another or not. "

The reason I found it interesting is that the Manson cultists started out as a relatively benign Haight-Ashbury, flower-power commune. The only criminal activity it engaged in at first was drug use and petty thievery. But as Manson explored deeper and deeper "spiritual journeys" he eventually linked up with Satan-worshipers and a Satan-themed motorcyle gang. The rest, as they say, is history.

SI VIS PACEM | 10.13.09 @ 10:27AM

Mr. Colebatch,
Thank-you for the report. There has been a long-standing effort to re-frame modern religions along gender constructs. (It appears to me to be fundamentally marxist.)

Tikva Frymer-Kensky was another of the modern scholars at work exposing the attempt and reinforcing the modern Western ethical-monotheistic tradition. Our readers may be interested in Frymer-Kensky's work 'In the Wake of the Goddesses: Women, Culture and the Biblical Transformation of Pagan Myth', published in 1992 by The Free Press.

Best,
Ran

P.S. "Mr. Colebatch is assigning a sex to God. He thinks God is a male." Pardon my asking, but is this an astounding act of mind-reading, or is it rather a simple lie?

Tim| 10.13.09 @ 12:03PM

" There was a tendency in those hungry for practical results, apart from poetical results, to call upon spirits of terror and compulsion; to move Acheron in despair of bending the gods. There is always a sort of dim idea that these darker powers will really d0 things, with no nonsense about it. In the interior psychology of the Punic peoples this strange sort of pessimistic practicality had grown to great proportions. In the New Town which the Romans called Carthage, as in the parent cities of Phoenicia, the god who got things done bore the name Moloch, who was perhaps identical with the other deity whom we know as Baal, the Lord. The Romans did not at first quite know what to call him or what to make of him; they had to go back to the grossest myth of Greek or Roman Origins and compare him to Saturn devouring his children. But the worshippers of Moloch were not gross or primitive. They were members of a mature and polished civilization abounding in refinements and luxuries; they were probably far more civilized than the Romans. And Moloch was not a myth; or at any rate his meal was not a myth. These highly civilized people really met together to invoke the blessing of heaven on their empire by throwing hundreds of their infants into a large furnace. We can only realize the combination by imagining a number of Manchester merchants with chimneypot hats and mutton-chop whiskers, going to church every Sunday at eleven o'clock to see a baby roasted alive. "

http://www.worldinvisible.com/.....art1c7.htm

KyMouse| 10.13.09 @ 2:39PM

Today, we take babies to Planned Parenthood and other abortuaries and pay strangers to tear them into pieces. If the babies have been in the womb long enough, we pay people to stab scissors into their skulls and suction their brains out.

Then the babies are roasted, dead, in incinerators, or simply thrown out in the trash.

We've come a long way, baby.....

Warning in Proverbs 24:11-12| 10.13.09 @ 2:43PM

"Deliver those who are drawn toward death, and hold back those stumbling to the slaughter. If you say, 'Surely we did not know this,' does not He who weighs the hearts consider it? He who keeps your soul, does He not know it? And will He not render to each man according to his deeds?" -- Proverbs 24:11-12, NKJ version

Tim| 10.13.09 @ 3:16PM

"I live in the Managerial Age, in a world of "Admin." The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" that Dickens loved to paint. It is not done even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. "

C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters

Pingback| 10.13.09 @ 1:19PM

The Wild Hunt » Paganism and the Conservative Mind links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…Mind It seems that The American Spectator hasn’t gotten the memo that modern Paganism and conservative politics have no trouble co-existing. How else to explain this time-warp of an essay from Australian writer Hal Colebatch? Colebatch decides to heap scorn on modern Paganism and Witchcraft by reviewing “Goddess Unmasked: The Rise of Neopagan Feminist Spirituality”, a scholarly tome…

kenneth| 10.13.09 @ 1:33PM

If it were 60 years ago, this author would have been "unmasking" Judaism and hawking the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. What makes Christianity "authentic"? All of their myths are recycled from older pagan traditions.

They managed to maintain a cultural and political hegemony over the western world for 15 centuries or so by torture and military might. They've been able to enjoy regulation and tax-free status while reaping Fortune 500-level wealth and to carry off an international culture of child rape that any Roman emperor would have envied. All very "authentic" stuff and admittedly well beyond the humble vision of Gerald Gardner and his descendants. If the Judeo-Christian vision is all that great, why do you think millions are voting with their feet to abandon it? I've found far more decent and intelligent people in pagan circles than I ever did in Christian spheres.

KyMouse| 10.13.09 @ 2:46PM

"Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and not tried."
-- Gilbert K. Chesterton

Joshua Berkowitz | 10.15.09 @ 12:29AM

I beg to differ. Many of the modern Pagans tried Christianity all too hard and wanted all too much! As Christianity fails to suite our modern needs and shifting ideals, it is abandoned.

Tim| 10.13.09 @ 2:55PM

Sounds like somebody needs a hug...

Big Leo| 10.13.09 @ 4:41PM

You're right, Ken. That's why I always go to the Thomas Paine Memorial Hospital. Those ones named after the saints are all based on torture and warfare.

victor| 10.14.09 @ 12:00AM

From Kenneth
"If the Judeo-Christian vision is all that great, why do you think millions are voting with their feet to abandon it?"
That is because those who turn their back on Christ never really knew Him and what He is all about. Christianity is not about "religion", it is about a relationship with Jesus Christ, God's Son.
If you go to a church to be entertained, how is that any different than going to see a movie?
Far more people around the world have accepted Christ into their hearts every day of the year. And they are persecuted by those who hate them and hate Christ.
John 15:18
"If the world hate you ye know that it hated me before it hated you"
http://www.persecution.com/
http://www.opendoorsusa.org/
If you find more "intelligence" and "decency" in pagan circles than your standards must be very low indeed.

Rob| 10.22.09 @ 4:48AM

All religions are about relationship with deity (except perhaps non-theistic ones like Buddhism). Christianity is nothing special in that regard.

Joel Monka | 10.13.09 @ 2:11PM

So, those veterans who died in combat, and are now buried at Arlington with a Wiccan pentacle on their tombstones rather than a cross, are they crooks, cranks, or montebanks?

Dai Alanye | 10.13.09 @ 3:11PM

This is a strange post. Are you hinting that every five-pointed star is a pagan pentacle? If so, what next—do you claim the canton of the American flag is a pagan banner?

One thing is certain—Wicca is a fraud. Using an Anglo-Saxon name for a "religion" with Celtic pagan symbology plus every sort of mystical nonsense possible, it can hardly be taken seriously by rational persons.

Freeman Presson| 10.13.09 @ 4:02PM

No, Joel Monka is referring to the multi-year fight for the right to an appropriate symbol for the grave markers of Wiccan veterans in national cemetaries.

As far as modern Paganism goes, we all *know* that the claims of ancient origin were just posturing, and it hasn't changed anything. Wicca is not all of Neopaganism; it accounts for maybe 40% nowadays.

There are probably some who still believe in the myth of a Universal Neolithic Mother Goddess, but this has been widely debunked (notably by Cynthia Eiler) and the Goddess Movement moves on.

If this review is actually representative of the book, then the author has come at least a decade late to the party, and the reviewer has not bothered to find out who he's insulting.

Freeman Presson| 10.13.09 @ 4:44PM

"a 'religion' ... [which] can hardly be taken seriously by rational persons. "

I cannot believe I missed that. If you want your religion to satisfy "rational persons" you end up with nothing specifically religious. "Rational persons" can't very well swallow the magical and mystical parts of the Abrahamic religions either.

Or perhaps you require a religion to have the sort of Apologetic structure that Catholicism built up over the years? I hope modern Paganism does not go that way; it should remain experiential and un-Apologetic, if I may beg an Indulgence for the pun.

Joel Monka | 10.13.09 @ 5:47PM

I meant the tombstone of Pagan veterans, like this one: http://www.wildhunt.org/pagan_vet.jpg
You might notice that he won the Bronze Star and the Purple Heart before he died in Iraq. Or this WW II veteran, who also won the same medals: http://www.circlesanctuary.org.....oiman3.jpg Or any number of others. I repeat- are these heroes cranks, crooks, montebanks, or merely irrational? If Wiccans are willing to lay down their lives to protect you, I think they should get some respect.

Big Leo| 10.13.09 @ 6:23PM

These Wiccan heroes have my total respect. Their loopy religion has zero respect from me. It's strictly a scam. Too bad they put their faith in a bogus religion concocted by cranks, crooks, and mountebanks.

Ron| 10.13.09 @ 9:06PM

Wicca a scam?...apparently you over look a great deal when reviewing Christianity...one of the biggest scams to date. I wondered what kind of a web site this is and when i discovered it, I realized it belongs to the Christian Taliban. Not like this group can point fingers about anything.

KyMouse| 10.14.09 @ 7:58AM

Ron, please spend a day with your nearest representatives of the Salvation Army. You'll find them at a club where at-risk boys and girls can safely participate in sports or other activities, away from the mean streets. You'll also find them running a temporary home for the homeless, or a center that helps alcoholics and addicts.

You'll also find them in a Salvation Army church ("corps"), where people who've been kicked around by their fellow human beings hear about God, who loved the world so much that He gave His only begotten Son, so that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

In the early 1970s, I worked at a Salvation Army's "home for unwed mothers" in the Deep South. They gave a home to young women whose families had kicked them out, and who resisted pressure from family and friends to kill their babies. The mothers received all manner of support to help them get a fresh start in life, and they heard about the God who loves them.

Before you go, please read about the life of William Booth, the founder of the Salvation Army, and the early work of his "soldiers" in the fetid, dangerous streets of Victorian London.

There are millions of Christians like them, but most of them go about serving their Lord quietly, without any fanfare. My church supports two crisis-pregnancy centers in our area, provides air transportation for overseas children who need surgery in this country, and runs a food-and-furnishings center for the poor. We do lots more as well, and I'll bet there are plenty of Christians in your area who do as much, and more. I hope you'll go meet some.

Ron| 10.14.09 @ 12:28PM

KyMouse,
I have no issue with Christian groups who seek to serve and help people & seek to follow their Jesus, in their actions. I have issues with conservative Christians who seek to cause problems, lie and spread lies about Pagans. Pagans are not 'anti-Christian', they're simply not Christian.

Rob| 10.22.09 @ 4:56AM

How, precisely, is Wicca a "scam?" No Wiccan I know makes money from her/his beliefs: they are sincere practitioners of their faith, seeking peace, wisdom, harmony with nature (as much as possible in a modern technological society) and communion with the old gods. The origins of Wicca mean nothing compared to what it brings its adherents.
Given that the US armed services, the Supreme Court, the IRS, and the Parliament of World Religions, to name but a few, have recognized Wicca as valid, don't you think perhaps you're taking rather a lot on yourself to denigrate it as "bogus?"

Margie| 10.13.09 @ 8:07PM

God sees the heart.
"But the LORD said to Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for [the LORD sees] not as man sees; for man looks on the outward appearance, but the LORD looks on the heart." 1 Sam. 16:7.

Rob| 10.22.09 @ 4:51AM

Wicca is no more a "fraud" than any other religion. It does not have verifiable antiquity to it--Gardner's claims are unlikely to ever be proven *or* disproven--but that does not make it a fraud. To those who practice it, it is a valid, living religion. I am several things, including a scientist by inclination, but that does not preclude me from being Wiccan. Go look up "non-overlapping magisteria," gain some understanding, and perhaps you will gain some maturity, courtesy, and wisdom in the process.

Face it: all religions look silly from the outside: Wicca is no different in that regard either, but that does not render it a "fraud."

Ray Spitz| 10.13.09 @ 4:48PM

None of the above. They're just suckers.

Norm| 10.13.09 @ 2:31PM

But what of Frazer's The Golden Bough that talked about goddess worship and was published back in 1922. The modern claims of continuity might be bogus, but it seems the claim here is that goddess worship didn't exist at all.

Bilwick| 10.13.09 @ 3:37PM

PETER: So which religion should we follow, Jesus?

JESUS: Six of one . . . they're all a bunch of crap.

--FAMILY GUY

I'm no fool| 10.13.09 @ 4:02PM

"The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God.'" -- Psalms 14:1

Joshua Berkowitz | 10.15.09 @ 12:36AM

Is there a category of spam called "Irrelevant Quoting," because their should be. I am amazed at the number of Biblical quotes which show up after news articles. The irony is, the word "God" in the Hebrew of this particular verse is "Elohim" which is from the name of a Goddess of the Levant, Eloah. So literally the verse is translated: "He said, the fool, in his heart, 'there is no Goddess.'" Very, very interesting, David.

Good luck, guy| 10.13.09 @ 4:05PM

Bilwick, if "Family Guy" is your idea of profound, important thinking, there isn't much that anyone can do to help you. Sorry.

victor| 10.14.09 @ 12:22AM

To Good Luck Guy,
I thought that at first, knowing that most cartoonists and entertainers are Flamin' Liberals and athiests to boot, but upon further reflection, I said to my wife that this guy inadvertantly reflected the true message of the Gospels, that is, that we are not to follow "religion", but if it be our choice, we are to follow Christ.
Luke 9:23
And he said unto all, If any man would come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
And religion as Jesus describes it is:
James 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Good Luck, Guy| 10.14.09 @ 8:20AM

Victor, good points. Biblical Christianity is not about religion, but is about a personal relationship with the Living God. It's the putting words in Jesus' mouth that annoys me; it always makes me wonder if the cartoonist has ever bothered to read what He said in the Bible. The Gospel of John would be a good place for him to start.

Rob| 10.22.09 @ 4:58AM

As I pointed out above, *all* theistic religions are about personal relationships with living deities. Christianity is nothing special in that regard. Wiccans seek the same thing, just with different deities than yours.

victor| 10.14.09 @ 12:26AM

Oh, and lest you think that God himself looks with favor on religion, you need to read
Isaiah 1:13-20
13 Stop bringing meaningless offerings!
Your incense is detestable to me.
New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations—
I cannot bear your evil assemblies.
14 Your New Moon festivals and your appointed feasts my soul hates.
They have become a burden to me;
I am weary of bearing them.
15 When you spread out your hands in prayer,
I will hide my eyes from you;
even if you offer many prayers,
I will not listen.
Your hands are full of blood;
16 wash and make yourselves clean.
Take your evil deeds
out of my sight!
Stop doing wrong,
17 learn to do right!
Seek justice,
encourage the oppressed.
Defend the cause of the fatherless,
plead the case of the widow.
18 "Come now, let us reason together,"
says the LORD.
"Though your sins are like scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow;
though they are red as crimson,
they shall be like wool.
19 If you are willing and obedient,
you will eat the best from the land;
20 but if you resist and rebel,
you will be devoured by the sword."
For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.

Pingback| 10.13.09 @ 3:43PM

Twitter Trackbacks for The American Spectator : The Neopagan Temptation [spectator.o links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…Philip Klein amspec American Spectator 115 Show more Shortened Links Linking to the spectator.org page http://bit.ly/41DK8t info http://bit.ly/uZeVP info   2 tweets Tweet The American Spectator : The Neopagan Temptation spectator.org/archives/2009/10/13/the-neopagan-temptation – view page – cached Goddess Unmasked: The Rise of Neopagan Feminist Spirituality By Philip G. Davis (Spence…

goldentoadster| 10.13.09 @ 3:52PM

I went out for a while with a woman who was into the Goddess. Two things eventually drove me away.

1) I looked into her mentor, Marija Gimbutis, an academic with a cultish following who claimed, on the basis of the large number of ancient figurines of pregnant women, that there been a benevolent Goddess religion throughout Europe until the Indo-Europeans brought in the Patriarchy.

But hey, I thought, people rarely represent, or pray to, the Creator, because they figure the Supreme Being has too much on his plate to hear them. Instead they appeal to either an intercessor or, among pagans, a lesser god with a specific area of competence. The very existence of so many mother figurines suggests that these various goddesses (if goddesses they were) were not the supreme god.

2) And then there was the cognitive dissonance. She talked a lot about the Mother Goddess but was on the worst possible terms with her actual mother. Creeped me out.

Lori Pieper | 10.13.09 @ 3:57PM

"In 1993 Pope John Paul II warned American Catholic bishops against the sort of gender-polarizing feminism which seems to be a first step towards goddess-worship."

He did a great deal more than that. This Pope, he predecessor, and his successor, have all done a great deal to help Catholics understand that their faith has the truth of which this kind of neo-pagan feminism is only the parody.

In one of his first encyclicals, Rich in Mercy (1980), JPII explored the deep Old Testament roots for the idea of God's specifically maternal love or rahamim. He spoke of this a number of other times as well. In this, he was building on what his predecessor John Paul I had to say in one of the few audiences he had time to give in the short month of his pontificate.

Recalling the passage in Isaiah, "Can a mother forget her own child? But even if she were to forget, God will never forget his people." (cf. Is. 49:14 15), John Paul I said: "We are the object of an undying love on God's part. We know: he always has his eye on us, even when it seems to us that it is night. God is a Papa, even more a mother. . . Little children, when they happen to be sick, have one more reason to be loved by their mothers, and so do we: if we happen to be sick with wickedness, if we have gone astray, then we have one more reason to be loved by the Lord." (Angelus address, September 10, 1978).

Also check out what Pope Benedict XVI says in his book Jesus of Nazareth; I don't have time to put it here.

Many, including those women who have been hurt by the "patriarchal God" (or rather by their or others' distorted idea of it), should come to understand the authoritative papal teaching; it is too little known.

Rob| 10.22.09 @ 5:02AM

Wicca and other Neo-Pagan faiths are not "parodies" of Christianity, and anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is either ignorant or lying. Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular have what they consider "truths," but all religions do that, from Asatru to Zoroastrianism.

Understand this: the words of the Pope have no more meaning or authority for those not of the Catholic faith than the words of any other individual.

Freeman Presson | 10.13.09 @ 4:14PM

"they have no association with even the traditions and dignity of classical paganism."

Tell that to the practitioners of Hellenismos and the other reconstructionist faiths.

"Davis's scholarship leaves nothing standing of the notion that goddess-worship is an authentic religion. It is the invention of latter-day crooks, cranks and creeps."

Yes, the day is apparently long past when one "crank" could hijack a religion and make it widespread; we have to have hundreds of thousands of them. Makes it confusing, but lively.

I get my authentic tradition from the Gods. You can whine about it all you want, knock down all the straw men (or wicker men?) you want, but we Pagans will go back to having real spiritual experiences in our loosely reconstructed but highly effective ways.

Tim| 10.13.09 @ 4:37PM

For example...?

Tim | 11.21.09 @ 7:04AM

Example : http://hellenismos.us/

Hellenismos is a Reconstructionist Religion that attempts to restore the traditional religion of Ancient Greece. I agree that the Neopagans have they have no association with the traditions and dignity of "classical paganism", and you absolutely should not lump us in with the those who are feminazis, eco-terrorists, and all that Mother Goddess bull.

Bilwick| 10.13.09 @ 4:29PM

"Bilwick, if "Family Guy" is your idea of profound, important thinking, there isn't much that anyone can do to help you. Sorry. "

Because to quote a comedy show or comedian is evidence one considers it or him or her a profound or important thinker? Odd.

Nope, I just thought FG, in that exchange, just did a good job of skewering something that needed skewering.

victor| 10.14.09 @ 12:36AM

What needed to be skewered exactly?
Jesus was saying that man did not need Religion.
John 14:6
"Jesus saith unto him I am the way, the truth and the life no man cometh unto the Father but by me".
Jesus died on the cross 2000 years and he died for the sins of the whole world and surely that has to include you.

KyMouse| 10.13.09 @ 5:03PM

“The only objection to Natural Religion is that somehow it always becomes unnatural. A man loves Nature in the morning for her innocence and amiability, and at nightfall, if he is loving her still, it is for her darkness and her cruelty. He washes at dawn in clear water as did the Wise Man of the Stoics, yet, somehow at the dark end of the day, he is bathing in hot bull’s blood, as did Julian the Apostate.” --
G.K. Chesterton, "Orthodoxy"

Rob| 10.22.09 @ 5:03AM

Where's the "unnatural?" Frankly, I think it's a tragedy that Julian the Faithful died so soon.

Margie| 10.13.09 @ 5:18PM

The Bible tells me that God Created man in His own image. It also says that woman was made from man, as God took one of Adam's ribs to create the woman. (Gen. 1:26&27;, 2:7,21&22;). When speaking of God, it refers to "Him."
Firstly, this blows completely out of the water the entire theory of Evolution, and secondly destroys any femininity falsely applied by anyone and everyone trying to do so.
As for the whole ridiculous "goddess" thing, I remember reading in the book of Acts something about the Greeks worshipping one. If you don't believe in the only true God, you will have to believe in something!
Praise God that He exists and saves us from our foolishness.

Ron| 10.13.09 @ 9:12PM

Margie, the only reason it 'blows' out of the water is because you believe it to be thus. It doesn't make it fact. One thing i find amusing with conservative Christians is how they want to make everything factual. Heck, ask a jew, the creation story is viewed as being allegorical. It's conservative christians who want to change beliefs to meet their beliefs. If i want to know an interpretation of the tanach, old testament, I'll ask a Jew for the correct understanding, not a conservative christian who changes everything to support their beliefs.

Margie| 10.13.09 @ 9:35PM

Hey Ron,
Your charge is a false one because God's words do not please you? It's there for you to read for yourself. And anyone else who wants to. Something I didn't mention but I will now, is that not only did God make man in His image, He said "Let us make man in our image." Gen. 1:26 This is speaking of Jesus who is the Alpha and the Omega (Rev 22:13), who was in the beginning with God, and through whom everything was made. Jn. 1:1-3. It is there, in the Bible, as plain as day whether it pleases you or not. Apparently it doesn't.

Ron| 10.13.09 @ 10:36PM

No Marge, your god's words mean nothing to me.
Your bible is a book written by men. You choose to treat it as the only way. It is not, nor has it ever been, nor will it ever be such. If those of your religion want to speak to others of a different faith, you'll have to discover a way that does not quote your bible simply because it is not authoritative to us and therefore, has not meaning. Your 'truth' is subjective. Conservative Christians appear to have the notion that somehow you quote the bible and everyone else will fall trembling in line...not happening, now or ever. So hate your heart away, justifying your thoughts, it's all the same...nothing to those not of your faith. You can make your statements about you'll see in the end but in the end, i'll stand before my Gods, not yours.

Margie| 10.14.09 @ 12:17AM

Ro,
Why is it hate to try and show you the truth? If I care for someone, that is what I do. It's what Christ does. Truly He is alive and waits to be gracious to you. I only quote the Bible because it really is true. It isn't about religion with true believers, it's about a relationship. I'd like to ask you this, if I may? Have you ever considered this, or even know this, that you (or anyone) can have a relationship with Him?

Margie| 10.14.09 @ 12:19AM

* (Ron), sorry.

Margie| 10.14.09 @ 12:53PM

No problem about the Ro, don't worry about it.
I was Christian and personally, found it to be false on many levels. Again, the Bible is only true to you, because you believe in it and believe it. I do not. Having studied the history of the bible, how it was created, how it has changed and the purposes behind such actions. What people have now is not what it's always been. Regarding Jesus, no one is truly sure if he actually existed or as portrayed in the bible or not. That doesn't concern me. Jesus attempted to teach many wonderful things to people, which included how to act and treat each other. No problems with this at all. My religion, Wicca, teaches the same thing.
Personally, i think that when the bible was finally put together in a book, it was in the 'new' religions own benefit to suggest that 'it' is the only way. Which is why so many books were not included, they didn't support the view that they, the crafters of the bible, wanted. For example, are you aware that Thomas offered a different book of Revelations? In it, he said that in the end, all would be saved because God was ultimately a kind and loving god? In it, it spoke how the people of heaven would look down on those and hell and ask god to forgive them. They did this and god forgave everyone and took all back into heaven. This version of Revelations doesn’t support the over all perspective of the bible, basically those who were portraying Paul’s version of things. There are many more examples of this if one simply searches.
My point is not to discredit Christianity but to simply point out that in spite of those who want to believe that their way is the only way, isn’t true, it’s something simply believed to be true.
Regarding relationship, Pagans, this is an umbrella term for all faiths that fall under the Pagan umbrella, like Christianity…Baptist, Methodist, Mormon, etc. we are also about the relationship with our Gods. I speak for myself, as this is extremely important to me, my relationship with my Goddess and God. We speak to each other; they teach and instruct, they allow me to fail so I’ll understand the bigger picture in this world. There is no consequence other than what I bring upon myself. Even then, they comfort, heal and ask me what I learned and then continue to encourage me to continue and grow. Many Christian cannot or will not understand that our religion is as fulfilling as theirs but that is their issue, not ours. Pagans are not anti-Christian; they’re simply not Christian and have no desire to ‘be’ Christian.

Ron| 10.15.09 @ 2:51PM

The above text is from Ron...written to Margie.
wanted to clear this up. Didn't realize the mistake.

Margie| 10.15.09 @ 8:40PM

Ron~ Are you also posting as Tim in NC?

Ron| 10.16.09 @ 11:13AM

Nope. I speak for myself. I have never spoken under an alias. Besides, i live in Missouri.

TimInNC| 10.14.09 @ 4:28PM

Marge,

the problem is that you really don understand your own relegion, or the book it's based on. Prior to the 1900's it wasn't even considered to be the inerant word of god (ref: Bart Ehrman"Jesus Interupted"), and the version you are reading is a highly edited and poorly translated version of the original (ref: the Council of Nicea, and Charles David's "God's Scribes"). You should also see a video called "The God Who Wasn't Even There" for an excellent discussion on how all of the stories about Jesus in the bible are nothing but stories borrowed from a 1000 other religions. Please, oh please, learn about your own mythology before you begin to berate us about ours. For as your bible says “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. " Matthew 6:5-6

Margie| 10.14.09 @ 5:25PM

Tim,
First of all, you say I am following a myth, then you quote from that "myth" called the Bible!
I have been a Christian for 39 years so I'm not swayed by nonsense. Now as for which version of the Bible I'm reading, how would you know? But really Tim, if you say I ought to read a book about "How God Really Wasn't There", why on earth are you exhorting me using the Bible? You're being very silly!

Margie| 10.14.09 @ 5:42PM

Tim,
In all earnestness, the way I know that the Bible is true, is because 34 yrs. ago (correction to above, got the years wrong), Jesus Himself revealed Himself to me in the most amazing and personal of ways, and I have found that every single word in that Bible is, in fact the truth. I will be willing to stake my life on that, and I believe that one day I may have to do that very thing. See, knowing Jesus isn't about any religions as such, it's about having a real genuine relationship with God through Christ. He's done so many amazing things for me, the biggest thing of all is that He saved me from myself and my own devices. (and Hell). You see, I was sinking deep in sin, far from the peaceful shores, and Love lifted me, Tim. It's proof enough for me until I die. Don't you want to know him too?

TimInNC| 10.15.09 @ 1:22PM

No thanks. I don’t need to know him as you do. I’ve already come to know all the archetypes that preceded him and upon his character is based. This would be the reason I recommended the video “The God Who Wasn’t There” to you. It does an excellent job of talking you through it. The other books are also very educational. “Jesus Interrupted” was written by one of your fellow Christians after he attended seminary. One of the most informative sections discusses how the four Gospels actually contradict each other. One should always read more than one book about their mythology. Especially those that are not complimentary or entirely supportive. If you are unwilling to learn more then you really can’t complain when those you are railing against refuse to as well. I’m fairly certain that you would encourage my fellow pagans and I to read the Bible (which I have) or this gentleman’s book. I don’t plan on reading his simply because he isn’t presenting anything new, and his research looks pretty slipshod. Any pagan of worth knows that we aren’t practicing exactly as our ancestors did, and that we don’t have an unbroken linage to the “old religion”.

I’m silly? For quoting the Bible to you while suggesting other reading material to you? Not nearly as silly as you quoting the Bible to people for whom it has no meaning. My point was that you might try living a little more Christian of a life and pray less like a hypocrite and more like the penitent man.

TimInNC| 10.15.09 @ 3:37PM

meant to say "...upon which his character is based."

Margie| 10.15.09 @ 3:48PM

Lotsa luck following a lie, Tim. As for me wasting my time as you say, quoting the Bible~
"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away." Mk. 13:31.
"So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; it shall not return to Me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and prosper in the thing for which I sent it." Is. 55:11.

TimInNC| 10.15.09 @ 4:19PM

Please show me proof that my path is a lie. Something, more than ridiculous old adventure novel you keep quoting please. I can show you just as many religious texts that will claim your path is a false one as well. You have a faith, dear lady, and just faith in it. It is no better, worse, or provable than any other.

Margie| 10.15.09 @ 4:36PM

Proof?
Well since you reject the Word of God, you will have to see His proof on the day you die, won't you? Unless it is on the Day of His return when you will fall on your knees crying for mercy, or maybe you'll be one of those who will call for the rocks to fall on him because you cannot bear to see His Glory?
"By myself I have sworn, from My mouth has gone forth in righteousness a Word that shall not return: 'To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall confess." Is.45:23.
"For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall give praise to God." Rms. 14:11.
"that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth," Phl. 2:10.
"Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the generals and the rich and the strong, and every one, slave and free, hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, calling to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb;"
Rev. 6:15&16;.

TimInNC| 10.15.09 @ 5:23PM

Blah, blah, blah...so you admit you can't provide any proof, just more words of condemnation. Fair enough, you are not teh first to fail taht test, no worries.

For the record...if you are reading any version of the bible that is written in English you are reading a bad copy. If you are reading any copy of the Bible that would be approved by the Council of Nicea, then you are reading an edited version.

Remember this too. It wasn't until the 1900's that anyone honestly talked about the Bible being the innerant word of God. Even the Jews don't believe that of the Old testament. Ask a Rabbi.

Margie| 10.15.09 @ 7:49PM

Jesus is proof enough for me Tim. Your choice is more than clear.
"Therefore they say unto God, Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways." "How long, O simple ones, will you love being simple? How long will scoffers delight in their scoffing and fools hate knowledge?" "Because they hated knowledge and did not choose the fear of the LORD." "They are all straight to him who understands and right to those who find knowledge." "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight." "Wise men lay up knowledge, but the babbling of a fool brings ruin near." Job 21:14, Prov. 1:22, Prov. 1:29, Prov. 8:9, Prov. 9:10, Prov. 10:14.

TimInNC| 10.16.09 @ 7:44AM

Again...that's not proof. That's faith. Nor is your incessant quoting of your mythology's text. There are quests that alternate faiths have which they could quote. They would have the same effect on you I feel.

Ron| 10.16.09 @ 11:23AM

Marge,
Tim is correct. what you are stating is what you believe, what you have faith in. It is not the same thing as Tim is asking. I have already mentioned the same thing in an above comment. You quote your bible because it is authoritative to you but it is not authoritative to everyone. To quote something to a person who does not believe or view the same thing in the same manner accomplishes nothing. You would have to find another way to express yourself before any Pagan would listen. We have faith in our Gods so why would we listen to what you have to say about yours besides to simply be polite?
Having once been Christian and now Wiccan, the former religion holds no promise to me. The relationship I have with my Gods is something that no one can break from me. If others are happy in their faith/religion, good, I wish them well but I have no desire to leave for something that for me, would be lesser.

TimInNC| 10.20.09 @ 2:46AM

Let's try this tact shall we? Where is you proof of Jesus. Not the historical figure who, were he born today, we'd call insane...wow, not all that unlike his contemporaries did, but the actual Son of GOD as Rush might say.

Souris| 10.14.09 @ 11:10AM

You do know there were originally other gods in your god's pantheon, right? That he was the god of storms and retribution?

Amy| 10.15.09 @ 1:17AM

You might be referring to Sol Invictus there? Are you saying the Greeks worshipping One true god (there was that period of sol invictus) or one Goddess. (They worshipped a whole array of Goddesses along with Gods.)

Ken (Old Texican)| 10.13.09 @ 6:04PM

I am a Christian. (little Christ...spit).
I believe that the person we title "God" is bigger than time or space. I have absolutely no idea about His/Her plumbing, (if any),and could care less.
I believe God, in a unique remarkable way sent Jesus of Nazereth to demonstrate a joyful way of living...and dying... for all mankind.

I believe the Romans crucified Him, and that He rose on the third morning in his eternal body and presented himself to his bereft disciples.
He turned 11 squashed little Jewish guys into 11 men,(and their female counterparts), who turned the whole world upside down.

He promised to send in His time and place "The Comforter" ...His Equal..."The Holy Spirit" to all times and places.
I can personally attest to the Holy Spirit speaking to me...personally... on three occasions during my long life.
Three watershed events that have shaped my whole life....heh.....even when I fell on my ass being stupid or mean, or forgetful.

I cannot be the judge...or the jury...or a lawyer...or a simple spectator.

I must only be a true witness to The Holy Spirit intersecting my life at 3 crucial moments during my life.
Jesus of Nazereth commanded two things: "Love one another as I have loved you"...and....."Remember me as often as you break bread."

I really work at those. I shall live and die joyfully.
I pray the same for all of you.

Margie| 10.13.09 @ 8:17PM

Praise God, Old Tex, you're an encouragement to us all! Eph. 2:10~ "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."

Al Adab| 10.13.09 @ 7:52PM

Very well put old friend.
Our hope is in Him, not in our government.
"If my people..."

victor| 10.14.09 @ 12:42AM

Reminds of that bumper sticker:
Let go
Let God.
The dem/lib/prog/soc/com/'s believe:
Let go
Let Government.
Our hope is indeed in Him.
That is real Hope and Change!

Souris| 10.14.09 @ 11:20AM

Uh, no. You keep thinking we believe that if it makes you feel better, but it's certainly not true.

Margie| 10.13.09 @ 8:21PM

It's this one~ 2Ch 7:14~ "If my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land."

The opposite of the atheist Communists. That being said though, many, many of those have also come to Christ.

Al Adab| 10.13.09 @ 10:09PM

Amen Margie, Amen.
Lord hear our prayer. Boruch atto adonai eloheinu melech ho'olom ose ma'ase v'reshis.

Pingback| 10.13.09 @ 8:25PM

"and I move that my cat is pretty and smells good" - wachwurds jimdo page! links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…u? I donno...no offense to the guy really, I agree with the message...it's just...you know...I hate to see a great word go to waste. Thanks to Wren over at the Vox for the heads up on yet another attempt to deride Goddess worship. Trackback URL for this article Trackbacks / Pingbacks 0 Write a comment 0 Comments Imprint | print version | Sitemap © Sharayat Login Jimdo logout |

Gavin| 10.13.09 @ 9:28PM

I haven't read this decade-old book by Professor Davis, but some of the claims made by Mr Colebatch in this article are demonstrably false.

"Evidence for the worship of a great or supreme Mother Goddess in the ancient world or in ancient Europe simply does not exist."

Wrong. Evidence exists in the Catholic Church's own records, most notably the canon episcopi, a 10th Century document. While she was known by many different names (Diana, Herodias, Habondia to name a few), the existence of a belief in a nocturnal goddess across Europe and the near-East is well-established .

Perhaps Mr Colebatch should read the works of Professor Carlo Ginzburg and the compelling evidence he presents for the survival of Pagan goddess-worship into the Middle Ages.

Or, he might read the work of Professor Ronald Hutton, chair of History at Oxford. Far from being merely 'invented' by Gerald Gardner in the early 1950's, Professor Hutton traces Wicca and the resurgence of Paganism and nature-based spirituality to a number of different sources, including medieval freemasonry, cunning-folk practices of rural England, and the Romantic movement of the 18th Century.

But no, I suspect Mr Colebatch will continue to read only such works as reinforce his own prejudices. If this is the depth of research and debate usual at the AmSpec, I am unimpressed.

The delicious irony here is that Christians, and particularly the Religious Right, attempt to vilify modern-day Pagans for being (to borrow from Ambrose Bierce) benighted creatures foolish enough to worship something that they can see and feel.

Margie| 10.13.09 @ 9:53PM

If you want to live by God's Word then you will see what it says, and there are plenty of Scriptures where God tells us not to worship statues. Ex. 20:4&5, Deut. 29:17, Lev. 26:1, Rms. 1:25. Most importantly though, "Jesus said to him, I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." Jn. 14:6.

Rob| 10.23.09 @ 10:04AM

Who's worshiping statues? Whence this irrelevancy?

kenneth| 10.13.09 @ 10:13PM

At first glance I thought this book and review were at least timely, if bigoted. Has the well of ideas really run so dry than an 11-year old review of an undistinguished book now constitute's "news"? Maybe the Spectator's next trick will be an eloquent editorial calling for the Berlin Wall to come down.

ccd| 10.13.09 @ 11:50PM

This is the new millenium and we're living in the internet age. Millenia old christianity is juvenile compared to australian aboriginal beliefs. Century old Wicca is ancient compared to scientology. The fastest growing religion today is Jedi. And new religions are popping up steadily.
The catholics do a good job with christmas and easter (a few more fun holidays would be nice, maybe something in late summer), and are generally nice people so I'll stick with that.
But there isn't a shred more evidence to support the mysticism of christianity, hindu, or norse than there is to support the mysticism of wicca, LDS, or Jedi. It's all just a bit of fun.

KyMouse| 10.14.09 @ 8:33AM

Ccd, if you want fun, try an amusement park. But if you ever become ashamed of your sins, which separate you from the one righteous and holy God, Jesus will be ready to save you. He took the punishment you deserve for your sins (and that I deserve for mine) by dying on the cross. That's the "good news" of the Gospel. And Jesus proved His divine identity and power by rising from the dead. George Lucas can make entertaining movies, but he can't pay for anyone else's sins. I'm a sinner who is very grateful that Jesus paid the debt I owe for mine.

Margie| 10.14.09 @ 12:29AM

Hello ccd,
If it's evidence that you are looking for, if you are truly looking, then you will find that there is more evidence for the Bible proving true than any religion. Every word of God proves true but you'd have to be willing to Seek Him His way. Have you ever considered doing this?

Vaemar| 10.14.09 @ 1:19AM

The pagan veterans who died in combat were no douut often brave and patriotic, just like their fellow pagans, Waffen SS.

Wes | 10.14.09 @ 12:40PM

That was about as hateful a responce ( not to mention disrespectful to Pagans in uniform) as I have heard from the oh so loveing Christian community. By compareing us Pagan folk to the Nazi movement you have belittled yourself as well as your idiotic argument. I could just as easily compare Christians to the Westboro Baptist Church although I actually have a bit of class.

TimInNC| 10.15.09 @ 1:38PM

And the equally patriotic Christain Waffen SS. Also the equally patriotic Christain Knights of the Klu Klux Klan.

All religions have their wackos following the same or similar mythology. Even pagans. I do try, however, to not judge or label all Christians according to the examples set by the KKK.

Amy| 10.14.09 @ 3:20AM

Most Wiccans and Pagans, especially long term practitioners, are fully aware of the history of Gardner and occultists involved in the witchcraft revival. When it comes to ancient religion, we do know that certain turning points of the year were revered in many historical societies and groups, and that many cultures honored whole pantheons of deities. This alone is enough to define us as Pagans and look to the past for inspiration.

To assess value of a religious tradition based on exact duplication of past practices would entirely devoid any religion of authenticity. Nothing is done the way it was done even just hundreds of years ago.

It does take research just to understand only an outline of what *might* have been performed at previous pagan rites, and even then the language and culture is entirely different now. However, it takes research to understand what early Christians were doing as well as that has changed also.

Christianity has evolved to make sense in modern times, through schisms, controversial changes, papal decrees, new sects and evolution of practices. If one man (such as a Pope) changes the course of religious history in Christianity, is it void? Because one man lumped together practices and lore he considered to be witchcraft, it does not devoid the practice. He freely describes all indigenous magic as witchcraft in his books; it is no secret that his presentation of Wicca was a collection, as that is how anthropologists in his time would have referred to "Witches" in different cultures.

Snicker at these pseudo-historical invalidations based entirely upon your own value judgments all you want. For it is your own labyrinthine journey leading you back upon your fears, when your hearts and minds could be opening to ways to love thy neighbor, despite their differences.

Religious tolerance, freedom and interfaith work is more important than (believing you are) proving the fallacies of anyone's beliefs.

Margie| 10.14.09 @ 3:44PM

"Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep My ways." Prov. 8:32.
"My son, give Me your heart, and let your eyes observe My ways." Prov. 23:26.
"For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts. For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, says the LORD." Is. 55:8&9.
"And now, My sons, listen to me: happy are those who keep My ways." Prov. 8:32.
"But My people have forgotten Me, they burn incense to false gods; they have stumbled in their ways, in the ancient roads, and have gone into bypaths, not the highway" Jer. 8:15.
"For My eyes are upon all their ways; they are not hid from Me, nor is their iniquity concealed from My eyes." Jer. 16:17.
"Yet you say, 'The way of the Lord is not just.' Hear now, O house of Israel: Is My way not just? Is it not your ways that are not just?" Ez. 18:25.
"Therefore I was provoked with that generation, and said, 'They always go astray in their hearts; they have not known My ways.'" Heb. 3:10.
"Come now, let us reason together, says the LORD: though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool." Is. 1:18.
"For God so loved the world that He gave his only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life." Jn. 3:16.
"But as many as received Him, to them He gave authority to become children of God, to the ones believing into His name, who were generated not of bloods, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God were generated." Jn. 1:12-13.
"God is spirit, and the ones worshiping Him must worship in spirit and truth." Jn. 4:24.
"Because if you confess the Lord Jesus with your mouth, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses unto salvation." Rms. 10:9&10;.
"Every word of God proves true; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him." Prov. 30:5.

Amy| 10.14.09 @ 4:41PM

I hope that your bible quotations bring you comfort, but I am among the 67% of the world that refers to different teachings for my inner wisdom and relationship to the divine.

Margie| 10.14.09 @ 5:03PM

Amy,
Understood. But even if 99% of the world were on the path to Hell, should it be a factor then in considering which path to follow?
"Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few." Mt. 7:13&14;.
Because there really is only one way, Amy~
"Jesus said to him, I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." Jn. 14:6.

Rob| 10.22.09 @ 5:09AM

Quoth Margie: "even if 99% of the world were on the path to Hell, should it be a factor then in considering which path to follow?"
Of course not, but we're not on the path to Hell. We have our own gods and our own destiny, separate from yours, and we do not fear Hell. You might take a look at the article "The Other People", available at http://www.sanfords.net/Pagan_.....eople.html if you actually want to understand our point of view.

Mindful| 10.14.09 @ 10:56AM

It sure is hard to be a follower of a new religion and have such scorn heaped on your beliefs. Kinda like those other followers must have felt who started following that other new religion, back 2000 years ago...

Amy| 10.14.09 @ 4:45PM

It can be, but it is not as hard as it was then, for the poor new Christian upstarts, or the sundried victims of property-theft during medieval inquisitions. I am even part of a 501c3 religious organization and am an ordained Wiccan minister. At least we are fighting to maintain freedoms we have instead of dying or being outcasts with no hope.

Ingrid White| 10.14.09 @ 7:03PM

" Evidence for the worship of a great or supreme Mother Goddess in the ancient world or in ancient Europe simply does not exist."

Of course! And if the author had even bothered to look up the first Google hit for "Wicca", they would have realized that it centers around both a God and Goddess. Yes, there was no universal wicca-cult like some Victorians speculated ages ago, but the world undeniably has a "god-with-goddess" complex... Astarte-Yahweh, Mary-Jesus, Isis-Horus, etc. It's an ancient concept. Wicca is merely a modern interpretation of these old pagan ideas.

" Fairly innocent, or at least naïve, sandal-wearers and vegetarian cultists could link up with practitioners of full-blown Satanism. "

What is the author implying? Haha. No, really. I'm a "full blown Satanist". I don't try to water it down. Call me a Luciferian, Ophite, Diabolist, or what have you. And guess what, I'm a fairly normal person with a decent job and good family relations... and no, we don't sacrifice kittens or eat babies, in case you were wondering. And just for the record, the average Satanist wouldn't be seen dead with the sandal-wearing vegetarian types. We tend to be quite elitist, and avoid the dabbler new-agey sort of people that this article tries to blast.

The article is inaccurate, as it insults Wiccans as being insincere femi-nazi dabblers. This is a stereotype that does not apply to sincere longtime practitioners, who take their religion quite reverently.

About tradition... Tradition? Who has tradition? Do you think that modern liturgical Catholicism or evangelical Protestantism has any resemblance to the ancient Jewish cult that Christianity used to be? Mankind creates its own traditions. Besides, most Wiccans these days realize that the "Old Religion" idea is a romantic myth.

This, of course, has led to the rise in religions such as Asatru and Neo-Hellenism, which follow actual traditional practices pretty darn faithfully, if you're looking for something that has the "traditions and dignity of classical paganism"... unless that was a clever attempt to insult modern polytheists while praising the ones that can't speak for themselves; ie, the dead ones.

Margie| 10.15.09 @ 4:02PM

"Watch that there not be one robbing you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the elements of the world, and not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." Col. 2:8&9.

tim| 10.14.09 @ 7:36PM

The author does nothing be illustrate his remarkable ignorance about pagan culture and his typical Christian hate filled mindset for anything different from his own beliefs.

Viki| 10.14.09 @ 8:19PM

Personally, I don't care about religious debates especially the omni-present anti-Christianity, which disconnects many of us from our heritage in favor of sampling easy, feel good answers from other cultures. And I'm really sick of bananahead shamans, shamanettes, wiccans. pagans, The Shack, Oprah, marianne williamson and that guy who held the $$$$$sweat lodge in Sedona. All the narcissistic, me centered "spirituality" for people who live in one of the most affluent societies ever and want easy answers. Life is both difficult and a gift.Grow up, give to others and get real.

Amy| 10.15.09 @ 1:11AM

Viki,

There are several things in your comments that show that you are uninformed about what you speak. For one thing, it would be backwards to describe these non-Christian faiths as easy answers. It is much easier to be mainstream and just show up at a church. You don't have to do much at all actually, just show up and don't do anything to stand out. Maybe live well and hope for a place in heaven. Certainly some people explore Christianity with depth in their practice, but it is the easy choice to stay within a faith everyone around you expects.

The second thing, is that you describe these alternative faiths and practices as connected with affluency and narcissism. I suggest that this is also backwards, as the money making systems around Christianity are far more extensive, with sprawling buildings and bank accounts. Even the most humble country church is bound to cost more to create and maintain than sweat lodges in Sedona, or the other things you complain annoy you with their presence. Especially Paganism, which operates primarily out of homes and on plain unadorned land. There are some money bloated new age workshop businesses out there, but on the whole they pale in comparison to many Christian establishments. (And evangelistic programs, for goodness sake they make a lot of money.)

The third thing, segued in from the last comment about Sedona, is that you are actually complaining that someone else's religion is too selfish (me-centered and narcissistic) and that you are sick of them, and they should grow up and get real. This is the most backwards of all of your comments, because you are selfish enough to simply be annoyed with the presence of others because of their difference. (And calling them selfish as a reason for your annoyance!!)

I wouldn't respond to you since you don't care about religious debates, except for the fact that you posted your comment right in the middle of one and therefore, you do.

I of Ra| 10.15.09 @ 12:21AM

It has recently occurred to me that christianity is just lazy pantheism. Christians pray to god for mercy, blessings, prosperity, healing, victory, safety, death of foes.

It almsot seems to obvious to think that calling god, god is simply a really easy way to address any and all gods that might answer whatever call we put out into the universe.

2) Newness: At some point every religion was new, and has no weight as for validity. If someone has been wrong for thousands of years, and then soemone says wait, waht about this, it doesn't make that one person wrong (re: slavery)

3) Most people who cite satanism have no idea what they are talking about. It's understandable that they could be deceived by the name, but tehy don't acutally worship satan. The religion is about non-comformity, self promotion and is almost a atheistic form of religion, relying on no higher power, for there is no higher power. In essence it is perfect capitalism, and thereby perfect for republicans.
But let's take a step back and just wrongly assume that satanism has satan involved. Even if this is the case this is still christian and part of the christian pantheon.

4) Yes christianity is a PANTHEON; people pray to the saints, the angils, the holy mother, jesus, the holy spirit and god. Even if you only consider the holy trinity, it is still a pantheon, a pantheon of 3 instead of hundreds.
And let us just ignore too many of the saints are actually pagan gods and spirits christianized to convert the pagans.

5) Christian Scholars: why do they stop at the bible? but let's stick with the bible for a moment. God was a total prick in the old testament; killing babies, treating his own people worse than the geneva convention would allow, claiming omni-potence while seemingly clueless as to the current events (although I am not sure if it was god whoclaimed omni-sentience or if it was simply his followers), demanding animal sacrifices, getting POed when people don't exactly understand his intentions when he speaks (sorry cain), being bad with math (he can instruct the construction of the tabernacle to the cubit, but doesn't really understand what a week is), (or maybe he does and our saturdays or sundays are a couple million years long and we ahve been jipped out of a lot of downtime)
Then we get to the new testament where he takes a page from the book of the other gods, specifically zeus, and gets it on with a mortal woman and produces another demigod, ala jebus. It's like God had had enough of this human thing and gave us his son and said boy you take care of your mother now, you are the man of the house, while he went off to the store for soem "cigarrettes". If god wasn't seen as a violent schitzophrenic (old testament) he should now (in thenew)

Part B: WTF: let us ignore the similarities between the relationship of Jesus and god to almost any other middle eastern religion and the template structure between jesus and Mithra (et al)
And forget about the use of the word "Lord" over and over, and that it is reference to the Babylonian god Baal
Where did "god" come from. Let us ignore the always was bit and find out where the mythology came from.
God in the jewish bible (btw: bible-meaning book as seen in the word bibliography, hence the annotation holy and bible) is also referred to as Elohim, which is means (gods/god) as El is the father of a whole pantheon on his own, complete with wife, and children, and other gods.

6) So why do people pick on christianity? The answer is relatively simple arrogance and ignorance are unbecoming of the pious. You can't be a religion of gun toting peace lovers, egotistical servants, and accepting exclusionists.
You can not both say that your religion is right and true and the only true way, and wonder why no one else likes you. It's like being the home coming queen and wondering why all the losers don't like you pointing out that they are losers.
Think about the other members of the Abrahamic family tree; who seems to be more hateful; Jews or Muslims? All believe that they are the chosen people and believe that they know god best. The jews however accept that they might know god best, but acknowledge that amounts to counting to a thousand in a contest to see who can count the highest.
Meanwhile hardcore nigh militant christians and muslims Say that they know god, that there is no other way to worship god and that a thousand is the highest possible number, and that there are no other numbers aside from 1-1000. Negatives, decimals and 1001+ just don't exist.

TimInNC| 10.15.09 @ 1:43PM

Wow, margie. You insist on completely missing the point. You really do need to look into those alternative study materials I mentioned earlier. It would do you a world of good.

Margie| 10.15.09 @ 4:19PM

No, Tim, you refuse to face Christ.
"And he said to them, "You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God, in order to keep your tradition!"
"The one believing into the Son of God has the witness in himself. The one not believing God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the witness which God has witnessed concerning His Son. And this is the witness: that God gave us everlasting life, and this life is in His Son. The one having the Son has life. The one not having the Son of God does not have life." 1 Jn. 5:10-12.
Doesn't this concern you in the slightest?

TimInNC| 10.15.09 @ 5:25PM

Nope, not in the least little bit. I can't even begin to imagine a reason why it should?

Rob| 10.22.09 @ 5:12AM

I'm with Tim here. Margie, do you lie awake worrying about what it says in the Eddas or the Avesta? I doubt it. So why should Tim or I worry about what it says in the Bible?

Margie| 10.15.09 @ 7:59PM

Because of this~
"but your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hid His face from you so that He does not hear." Is. 59:2.

TimInNC| 10.16.09 @ 7:51AM

And that is where you would be wrong again. It isn't my god. No more than the gods and goddess' I pray to are yours.

You do raise one of the most interesting contradictions in the bible though. Here it says he no longer hears me, yet in other places it says he does. You really should at least read "Jesus Interrupted".

also a good read.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_essa.htm

Margie| 10.18.09 @ 1:20AM

Of course it says in other places He does, because if we humble ourselves and seek repentance according to His will, He hears us. But:
"Toward the scorners he is scornful, but to the humble he shows favor." Prov. 3:34

TimInNC| 10.20.09 @ 2:51AM

Your god is a jealous god, and a right bastard. Of course he wants you to be humble. I prefer to stand before my deities and ask them why. I am far more likely to get answers than if I was on my knees.

TimInNC| 10.16.09 @ 7:51AM

A Pagan dies, and to his great surprise finds himself standing before some pearly gates. The guy in charge looks him over before asking, "Can I help you?"

"Where am I?" asks the Pagan.

"Beg your pardon?" the other guy asks. "You're in Heaven, of course."

"B-but I don't believe..."

"Hmmm" (squinting his eyes) "are you one of them Pagan folk?" the gatekeeper asks, his mouth curling in mild distaste.

"Yes, I am... I believe I'm in the wrong place, which way is the Summerland?" our Pagan friend asks.

"It's been 'temporarily' shut down for repairs," the gatekeeper said with an ironic chuckle, "ever since we took over...err...I mean... since the people found their way to the true path."

"Whatever," says the Pagan, "What do I do now?"

"I'm sorry sir, but you must go to Hell. No Pagans allowed here."

"WHAT? Hell? But I don't believe in Hell!"

"Sorry, those are the rules, just follow the downward path to the left."

So our Pagan friend walks down to Hell, only to find the doors open. He warily goes in and looks around to see beautiful meadows, and animals happily roaming the surrounding woods. "Hmm, so far so good."

A voice behind him made him all but jump out of his skin. "Can I help you?"

"SHEESH! Give a guy a heart attack, why don't you?"

"Ahem... a little too late for that, isn't it?" the guy said with a smile.

"Who are you, anyway?" our friend asks.

"Why, I'm Satan," the other one said with a slight bow.

"Satan?!" said our friend as he started looking around nervously.

"At your service... you're the Pagan guy Pete called us about, right?"

"Pete... oh the guy in Heaven, yes..." he said, eyeing Satan carefully. "What's gonna happen to me now?"

"Well, you can hang out, there's some great fishing going on in the lake beyond these woods and, if you follow the road down this way, there's refreshments and a little market not too far and to your right. I believe the Pagan meeting grounds are just behind that hill..." Satan went on.

"Are you serious...?" he finally asked.

Satan grinned at him innocently. "Why shouldn't I be?" Sudden understanding filled Satan's eyes. "You don't believe the rumors, do you?"

Suddenly, in answer to our friend's growing fear, the vault of the skies opened with a thunderous groan. A soul, plummeting through the sky, screamed in terror, his screams drowned by the opening of a yawning chasm full of fire and brimstone. The stench of sulfur thickened the air. Thousands of howling, suffering, tortured voices echoed through Hell. When the screaming soul finally fell into the pit, the ground shut closed with a sickening thud that rattled the earth.

Our Pagan friend all but soiled his undies as he yelped in terror. "And what was THAT all about?"

Satan rolled his eyes, and made a dismissive gesture with his hand as he said with a distasteful grimace. "Oh, just ignore that..." He rolled his eyes again. "My Christian guests refuse to have it any other way!"

TimInNC| 10.16.09 @ 7:51AM

A Pagan dies, and to his great surprise finds himself standing before some pearly gates. The guy in charge looks him over before asking, "Can I help you?"

"Where am I?" asks the Pagan.

"Beg your pardon?" the other guy asks. "You're in Heaven, of course."

"B-but I don't believe..."

"Hmmm" (squinting his eyes) "are you one of them Pagan folk?" the gatekeeper asks, his mouth curling in mild distaste.

"Yes, I am... I believe I'm in the wrong place, which way is the Summerland?" our Pagan friend asks.

"It's been 'temporarily' shut down for repairs," the gatekeeper said with an ironic chuckle, "ever since we took over...err...I mean... since the people found their way to the true path."

"Whatever," says the Pagan, "What do I do now?"

"I'm sorry sir, but you must go to Hell. No Pagans allowed here."

"WHAT? Hell? But I don't believe in Hell!"

"Sorry, those are the rules, just follow the downward path to the left."

So our Pagan friend walks down to Hell, only to find the doors open. He warily goes in and looks around to see beautiful meadows, and animals happily roaming the surrounding woods. "Hmm, so far so good."

A voice behind him made him all but jump out of his skin. "Can I help you?"

"SHEESH! Give a guy a heart attack, why don't you?"

"Ahem... a little too late for that, isn't it?" the guy said with a smile.

"Who are you, anyway?" our friend asks.

"Why, I'm Satan," the other one said with a slight bow.

"Satan?!" said our friend as he started looking around nervously.

"At your service... you're the Pagan guy Pete called us about, right?"

"Pete... oh the guy in Heaven, yes..." he said, eyeing Satan carefully. "What's gonna happen to me now?"

"Well, you can hang out, there's some great fishing going on in the lake beyond these woods and, if you follow the road down this way, there's refreshments and a little market not too far and to your right. I believe the Pagan meeting grounds are just behind that hill..." Satan went on.

"Are you serious...?" he finally asked.

Satan grinned at him innocently. "Why shouldn't I be?" Sudden understanding filled Satan's eyes. "You don't believe the rumors, do you?"

Suddenly, in answer to our friend's growing fear, the vault of the skies opened with a thunderous groan. A soul, plummeting through the sky, screamed in terror, his screams drowned by the opening of a yawning chasm full of fire and brimstone. The stench of sulfur thickened the air. Thousands of howling, suffering, tortured voices echoed through Hell. When the screaming soul finally fell into the pit, the ground shut closed with a sickening thud that rattled the earth.

Our Pagan friend all but soiled his undies as he yelped in terror. "And what was THAT all about?"

Satan rolled his eyes, and made a dismissive gesture with his hand as he said with a distasteful grimace. "Oh, just ignore that..." He rolled his eyes again. "My Christian guests refuse to have it any other way!"

Margie| 10.17.09 @ 12:26AM

God's love in Christ is the highest thing of all - and it is given to the lowest of all - me! Cor. 1:28.

Ron| 10.17.09 @ 11:41AM

The religion of the slaves. (shaking his head), after 2000 years, still slaves.

Margie| 10.17.09 @ 4:01PM

You're either a slave to God or a slave to sin.

"Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, every one practicing sin is a slave to sin." Jn. 8:34.
"Therefore, if the Son sets you free, really you are free." Jn. 8:36.
"Jesus Christ, the same yesterday and today, even to the ages." Heb. 13:8

Rob| 10.22.09 @ 5:15AM

No, Margie, you are mistaken. I am a slave to no one and nothing. "Sin" is not a part of my religion, so I am not "sinning," let alone enslaved by it, any more than you are bound by the Wheel of Karma. See how that works?

TimInNC| 10.20.09 @ 1:31AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

TimInNC| 10.20.09 @ 1:34AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

TimInNC| 10.20.09 @ 1:36AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

TimInNC| 10.20.09 @ 1:36AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

TimInNC| 10.20.09 @ 1:38AM

c'mon Margie....watch the clips. Tell me why they are wrong, with something other than that "other mythological treatise" you keep quoting.

Pingback| 10.17.09 @ 1:25PM

The Neopagan Temptation « Depravity links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…who concocted the spurious figure of nine million alleged victims of witch hunts. Much of English wicca actually seems concerned with men getting women to take their clothes off via The American Spectator : The Neopagan Temptation. This entry was posted on October 17, 2009 at 5:08 pm and is filed under Uncategorized. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response,…

Joel Monka | 10.17.09 @ 4:44PM

Margie, I have a question for you. If I were to quote from a Pagan book- Say, the Big Book of Witchcraft, or Maiden Moon- a line that opposes a Biblical verse, would you concede that the Bible has been refuted, and accept that it was wrong in that instance? If you would not, why do you expect us to accept that we have been refuted by your Biblical quotes?

Margie| 10.18.09 @ 1:08AM

Mr. Monka,
Pointing to a verse in one of the books you mention that says something in disagreement with what the Bible says does not make the Bible untrue. If an author happens to disagree with what God says, in reality it causes the author to be false, not God. God cannot lie. In reality, the Bible proves itself true. But if a person wants to find fault with it, he will find plenty of "apparent" contradictions. But "They are all straight to him who understands and right to those who find knowledge." Prov. 8:9. "God looks down from heaven upon the sons of men to see if there are any that are wise, that seek after God." Ps. 53:2.
So: 1. I would never accept that the Bible has been refuted, because it cannot possibly be.
2. I cannot expect a person to accept what the Bible says. But when someone is destined by God to be called by Him, they will accept what He says. It means that they have already been chosen from before the foundation of the world to be saved: "and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified." Rmns. 8:30. I am simply a sower of seeds.

TimInNC| 10.20.09 @ 2:53AM

Margie, Margie, Margie...the bible does not prove itself....it contradicts itself.

Joel Monka | 10.17.09 @ 4:50PM

Pingback- All of these "revelations" and "debunking" of Wicca and other Pagan faiths are DECADES out of date. I don't know a single Pagan who believes any of the things either of these articles "debunks". See the website "Wicca for the rest of us" http://wicca.timerift.net/history.shtml written BY and FOR Wiccans that talks about the false history, etc. It no more devalues our faith than the false claims of some Christians devalues Christianity.

Frank Watson| 10.20.09 @ 11:30PM

The definition of American Freedom is: No Kings, No Popes, No Prophets.

Let it ever be so.

All religions, at their heart, are a belief in magic. Light a candle, make a wish.

It don't work, people.

Reason. Reason. And be Free.

Stephanie| 12.30.09 @ 9:46PM

What I find interesting is the deep flaws in the research here. The author failed to even spell Aleister Crowley's name correctly. So much for scholarship. Also, your Bible was invented at a bargaining table at the council of Nicaea. How enlightened is this world, that even thousands of years after the supposed savior, there are still radicals screaming about heresy? What's next, burning at the stake?

Pingback| 2.20.10 @ 7:23AM

Authentic Spirituality: Pure and Undefiled Religion links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…runs a web publication for Christians called Grace-Centered Magazine that includes a Christian message forum. Related blog posts Authentic Spirituality: Pure and Undefiled Religion The American Spectator : The Neopagan Temptation The American Spectator : The Neopagan Temptation Suicide, Media and Mariannet Amper | A Filipina Mom Blogger Suicide, Media and Mariannet Amper | A Filipina Mom Blogger Roots and…

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