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The Right Prescription
Joe Wilson: The Answer to Your Question Is "Yes"
In what economists call a "common pool," someone else always pays.
It's remarkable that in the whole brouhaha about Joe Wilson shouting "You lie!" at President Obama's assertion that illegal immigrant won't be covered by Obamacare, no one has pursued the question, "Who's right?"
So here's the answer. Yes, illegal immigrants will be covered for Obamacare. Or rather, "Illegal immigrants may be legally ineligible for Obamacare, but they'll get covered anyway."
How do we know this? Because it will be in the interest of all the players -- doctors, hospitals, any other care provider, social workers, immigration lawyers, plus the immigrants themselves -- to get them into the system. The only people opposed will be some bean-counting bureaucrat in Washington or some crazed Republican who worries about the future of the country. These interests will be distant and abstract and will count for little. All the institutional momentum will say, "Give them coverage." It will be like water flowing downhill.
Here's an example of how it will work. Ten years ago my nephew, who grew up in Holland, moved to New York City with his pregnant French wife. He was an American citizen, she was not. Neither had ever lived in this country. They didn't know Medicaid from the medicine cabinet, but the first time they visited the gynecologist, he signed them up for New York's generous Medicaid benefits. My nephew had a good education but didn't yet have a job and was still getting money from his parents. No matter, he was eligible. Medicaid paid the entire costs of the delivery.
Within a few months he had a job and a year later he was making so much money that they decided to move to New Jersey to get away from New York City taxes. It was a perfect exploitation of New York City's welfare system. My nephew is a strong conservative and libertarian and became quite embarrassed about it years later when he understood what had happened, but I told him not to feel bad. The system was designed to be exploited. The doctors and hospitals were eager to have him on Medicaid because they wanted to be paid themselves. They didn't want to have to worry about whether he would find a job or whether his parents would continue to pick up the bills. Medicaid is what economists call a "common pool."
Common pool resources are the dread of all economists but the delight of everyone else, since everyone figures they can take out more than they put in. Back at the dawn of the Environmental Era, Garrett Hardin defined environmental degradation as a common-pool problem. In a famous 1968 essay, "The Tragedy of the Commons," Hardin used the chronically overgrazed Medieval sheep commons as a model for the exploitation of commonly held resources like air and water. "Private property, or something formally like it," Hardin wrote, was the solution to environmental problems. (This was before environmentalists themselves began exploiting the common-pool resources of the American landscape by littering it with ugly windmills and solar collectors.)
The same logic works with health insurance. If coverage is provided by private insurers who have an interest in their own survival, they will maintain control of the system and exploitation will be limited. But if the federal government aggregates everybody into one big common pool, then everybody will think healthcare is "free" and nobody will have any stake in monitoring the system. The government itself will simply borrow or print money in order to win the favor of voters by maintaining the illusion that the system is sustainable. The tragedy of the commons becomes inevitable.
Obamacare and all socialized medicine schemes are an effort to turn health spending into one gigantic common pool. The rule of thumb about common pools is the bigger the pool, the harder it is to monitor and the easier it is for everyone to take all they can get while contributing as little as they can. As Frederic Bastiat put it in the 19th century, "Government is the mythical entity whereby everyone tries to live off the efforts of everyone else."
This is what has happened with Social Security. When it was invented in 1936, Social Security as a way of allowing people to retire at age 65 at a time when the average American lived until 66. Today the average American lives to 79 but people can start collecting at age 59 and may go on collecting for thirty years. Hardly anyone puts in as much as they take out. That is why the system is on course to run out of money in 2037, leaving unfunded liabilities of $10 trillion. Medicare is in even worse shape, projected to go into the red in 2017 with unfunded liabilities of $40 trillion, more than three times today's gross domestic product. Already Social Security and Medicare absorb one-third of federal revenues. By 2040 they may swallow everything.
The bizarre thing is that Obama and the gang think they can solve these problems by creating a bigger pool! Democrats continuously cite the impending Medicare implosion as "the reason we need healthcare reform."
But all Obamacare will assure is that all the individual players -- doctors, patients, hospitals, major corporations eager to dump their health benefits onto the federal government, social workers on a mission to help the poor, immigration lawyers dispensing justice -- will all be working to game the system, including getting illegal immigrants on the rolls. After all, doesn't making the hospitals treat uninsured illegal immigrants just add to their costs? Wouldn't it be cheaper to include them as well? Just to anticipate a bit, "If we can provide full medical to terrorists in Guantanamo, why can't we provide it to hard-working illegal immigrants."
During the New York City financial crises, a woman wrote a letter to the Daily News defending the city. "God bless New York City," she wrote. "I grew up in New York City and the City provided us with everything. It gave us housing, it gave us welfare, it gave us unemployment insurance, it gave me a free education at City College. People say New York is too generous but all I can say is 'God Bless New York City.'" The woman lived in Teaneck, New Jersey.
That's the way common pools work. Take all you can and then get out before it comes time to make your contribution. Only this time the stakes will be even higher. If Medicare has created a chasm the size of Grand Canyon in the federal budget, Obamacare promises to be a meteor crater as wide and as deep as the United States of America.
About the Author
William Tucker is the author of Terrestrial Energy: How Nuclear Power Will Lead the Green Revolution and End America's Energy Odyssey.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (75) | Leave a comment
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Paul Torsiello| 9.14.09 @ 7:08AM
Get this Lying LOUSE out of the Whitehouse NOW! This imposter of being an American is nothing more than a Lowlife Muslim radical.
Ya know how we should deal with this????Just ask!
The American people are fed up with this scummer!
You will be seeing more signs :GET THIS LOUSE OUT OF THE WHITEHOUSE!
Deborah D| 9.14.09 @ 7:41AM
Mr. Tucker, once again you distill a problem down to an understandable, honest, logical conclusion. Therefore, you must be a right-wing wacko. :)
Thanks so much.
TennesseeVolunteer| 9.14.09 @ 7:47AM
The one theme that all Americans of every party affiliation can agree on is a 'balanced budget'.
Michael L. Hauschild| 9.14.09 @ 8:12AM
Tucker is spot on.
Now what we need is a Sarah Palin blog moment. She is standing at the podium and states, "This health care bill will make the taxpayers fund emergency and long term care for illegal aliens." From the crowd comes a shout, "You tell the truth!" followed by a standing room ovation.
D. Wickens| 9.14.09 @ 8:28AM
Mr. Tucker's claims are unsupported by the experiences of every other developed nation in the world.
But then, what would "foreigners" know. We've probably all been brainwashed by "socialists" like Obama into thinking there's something good about health care that is provided to everyone and costs less to the country than the American "system".
No doubt we continue to support our universal health care plans because we don't know any better, hadn't heard all those anecdotes about "death panels" and so on. Too bad for us.
Thank goodness the US is there to set an example for us all. Maybe someday we'll see the light and we'll all be able to have a hugely expensive system that leaves millions without insurance, and the American insurance industry can work its miracles for us too.
Ken (Old Texican)| 9.14.09 @ 8:42AM
D,
you guys are just so Nannied (I made that word up), that you cannot even see what your "systems" are doing to the grown-ups who are trying to build a future for your dying countries/cultures/demographics.
See, many of us Americans prefer to be grown ups. (we use the words freedom and responsibility and personal initiative), but you nannied ones won't learn those words......until you grow up.
Louis Jenkins| 9.14.09 @ 8:53AM
...no one has pursued the question, "Who's right?"
The liberals and their joined at the hip state run media always steal the show with the accusation "its the seriousness of the charge." This time someone, Congressman Wilson, SC, has beat them to the punch. "You lie!" Who was in pursuit of the truth in this instance? 'Apologize you low brow' becomes their battle cry. In committee, this past week, they've tried to write out illegal immigrant access to the Health Care Boondoggle. Obama's speech can be summed up in a few short words: Urinating down the back of our necks, and telling us it's raining. Who really owes the apology? Work miracles for us too? How about starting with the truth and dispensing with the 'rain' and lies!
hoads| 9.14.09 @ 9:10AM
Obama understands the concept very well, in fact, they expect a universal healthcare program to be exploited. That's why it is so important to them to have the government legislate minimum healthcare insurance benefits mandated for all. Everyone will be required to carry the actuarial equivalent of maternal child, drug & alcohol rehab benefits and whatever "patient advocates" succeed in lobbying our legislators to include. They want a system where "everybody is in, nobody out" because that's the only way they can cover the deluge of healthcare abuse that comes with a government sponsored, taxpayer funded healthcare system.
George True| 9.14.09 @ 9:14AM
D. Wickens said, "Mr Tucker's claims are unsupported by the experiences of every other developed nation in the world".
You are entitled to your opinion sir, but I would be reluctant to put such a breathtaking level of ignorance on display for all to see. what you say sounds good, and may make you feel good, but the problem is that none of it is actually true.
The jist of the article is that in a national socialist healthcare/health insurance system, everybody is expecting something for nothing, causing a massive unfunded liability. That causes two things in turn: First, the government will surely raise taxes in every way possible, so that in the end we will all pay, and pay, and pay. Second, because there will still not be enough money to pay for it all, rationing will be inevitable.
Eighty percent of people in the US have said that they are satisfied to very satisfied with their current health plan and healthcare. For the last several decades, when people have been asked to list in order of priority the most pressing national issues, healthcare or health insurance "reform" usually does not make the top ten on the list, sometimes not even the top fifteen. So it is really NOT the existential problem that the Dems always try to claim it is.
The real number of American citizens, not illegal aliens, who are chronically uninsured is about 15 million. (The figure of 47 million is and has always been a complete fiction.) So why not develop a program aimed at that five percent of the population? It could be done relatively easily without taking away the myriad free market options of the other 95 percent. As for people with serious pre-existing conditions who don't have access to a company group plan, the government could also develop a special program for them as well. Government could subsidize a special health plan for them (sold through insurance companies) where the government agrees to reinsure that policy if claims in any given year exceed a certain amount.
As for the rest of the people who are covered but for whom the price is increasingly difficult to afford, there are a number of logical solutions that absolutely WOULD work. First, give individuals the same tax deductions that corporations get on health insurance. Second, get the federal and state governments out of the way in terms of mandating what health insurance policies must cover. Let each person on their own decide what level of coverage they are willing to pay for. The reason there is not far more competition in the health insurance industry is that government mandates have largely stifled it. Finally, pass tort reform legislation.
The Dems will not even discuss any of these logical, common sense solutions, nor will they allow them even to be discussed or debated in any public or private forum. Obama keeps saying "the time for debate is over" when in reality not one shred of actual debate has yet been allowed to take place. The reason for this is because THEY KNOW that sensible, effective reform of the problems with healthcare and health insurance could easily be enacted WITHOUT the government having to take over anything. And that simply would not be compatible with their national socialist agenda.
Pingback| 9.14.09 @ 9:15AM
Twitter Trackbacks for The American Spectator : Joe Wilson: The Answer to Your Quest links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Anthony| 9.14.09 @ 9:25AM
All we as Americans and conservatives have to remember was how the Washington political establishment, both D & R, handled the Immigration debate.
The "cooked" 1000+ page legislation was full of bureaucratic legalize and obfuscation that allowed for the complete circumvention of the professed purpose of the bill.
Mr. Tucker is correct, the same Orwellian word play is at work here, especially given the known desires of the leftists who crafted this bill. Will illegals qualify under this legislation? Let's just say this is Obama's version of "Don't ask, don't tell".
Grzmlyk| 9.14.09 @ 9:33AM
Maureen Dowd, Jeanine Garofalo and I got together to digest the content of this article.
We all agree: The problem isn't with universal health care, which will work perfectly. Once it is enacted, angels will sing all the live-ling day, the birds will chirp a little louder, the sky will be a little bluer and everyone who sets foot in this country - regardless of race, creed, color or legal status, will be forever healthy and no one will ever pay a dime for it (until, of course, they are converted into Soylent Green at the age of 65; but that's a happy tale for another time).
No, the problem isn't with government-run health care and its spectacular failure everywhere it's been implemented, nor its paving the way for a Totalitarian State.
The problem is that the article's author is a racist.
Shame on you, Mr. Tucker. You just can't handle having a black man as your president, can you?
NOTE: For those on this site who do not understand sarcasm, what I just wrote is SARCASM.
I am pointing out the ever-more ubiquitous (and ever louder) liberal response to any criticism of anything Obama proposes, stands for, says or approves.
These incipient Marxist cheerleaders are less and less arguing any Obama initiative on the merits. God forbid. No, instead, increasingly it is the non-sequiter charge of racism we meet in response to our howling objections to becoming full-time serfs.
And so we have geniuses like Garofalo and Dowd (and soon it will permeate to every level of the mainstream media) retreating to the last refuge of liberal scoundrels: Playing the Race Card. What a familiar and depressing - not to mention wholly dishonest - dirge accompanies America's death throes.
But if I don't want the government in charge of my health care decisions because I'm a racist, how does that explain that I hated the idea under Clinton, too?
The silence of the mainstream media on what's happening in this country is deafening. Their collusion in the dismantling of liberty is shameful. The grass roots movement against our enslavement is being airbrushed out of history by a rampaging Leviathan drunk with its own power.
We have got to take back this country. And in order to do that, we must take back the mainstream media. Fox News isn't going to be nearly enough. 2 million people on the mall in DC isn't going to be nearly enough.
We have GOT to fight using the left's tactics. We have to be loud, in-your-face and relentless. And we have to out-Alinsky them (e.g., destroy them, not out-argue them).
It's probably too late, but it's our only chance. It's not the Charles Krauthammers who are going to save this country.
Robert Rosencrans| 9.14.09 @ 9:42AM
Obama told a big whopper and he knows it. Not only did he drop the figure of the uninsured to 30 million (From the previous 42 million), Obama knows the federal government is already funneling taxpayer funds to illegal aliens in numerous ways. Here's a sample:
http://rightsidenews.com/20090.....-care.html
Government Studies Confirm: Bar on Benefits without Verification is Ineffective. Government research confirms that a statute that limits the availability of government benefits is meaningless unless it is also coupled with a vigorous method of ensuring eligibility in order to eliminate fraud and abuse. For example, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) and other independent research have concluded that illegal aliens have been a significant factor in the rise of Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) disbursements despite the fact that illegal aliens are technically ineligible for the tax benefits.3
Likewise, the Congressional Research Service (CRS) reported in May 2008 that illegal aliens receive significant federal benefits, notwithstanding numerous federal laws designed to prevent this form of fraud.4 CRS cited studies from the U.S. Departments of Agriculture, Labor, Health and Human Services, and a private organization to support the contention that a statutory bar alone will not prevent illegal aliens from accessing government benefits.5 Accordingly, it is highly unlikely that Section 246 will operate to effectively prevent illegal aliens from receiving affordability credits provided for in the bill.
Tim| 9.14.09 @ 9:46AM
"Ow! My balls!"
*with apologies to Mr. Bowman.
2Anglico| 9.14.09 @ 9:56AM
The reason we pay more for healthcare is 'cause WE HAVE MORE MONEY TO SPEND!!!
Thanks to "Free Enterprise".
crookedwren| 9.14.09 @ 10:04AM
D. -- If you're earning a living in a socialist country that provides universal health care, I would love to know -- how much of your earnings goes to your government? How expensive are single-family dwellings where you live? What is the median income? What is your unemployment rate?
Many, if not most, Americans believe that quality healthcare for all Americans is a marvelous goal, but we disagree on how to achieve that goal. Because we recognize that, while "evil" insurance companies are part of a systemic problem in this country, the government tends to create greater problems.
In fact, some argue that it's the very intrusion of government regulations that currently exist that has led to such terrible things as insurers dropping coverage as soon as someone becomes ill. That shouldn't happen. Obviously.
Those of us who oppose too much government intrusion into the healthcare system are not greedy, uncaring, horrible people.
In fact, take a look at the charitable giving of Bush vs. Obama. That's quite an interesting comparison.
You'll find that, on the whole, those who talk so much about helping the poor are the ones who give the least to them.
Oh, and by the way, should you honestly believe that Obama wants this healthcare thing because his heart is in the right place, consider this:
He assisted ACORN in getting toxic mortgages to those who couldn't afford them -- hurting not only the people who held the mortgages, but the lending institution, the nation, and the world.
ALSO -- SEIU and ACORN are both "children" of the Rathke brothers, old SDS roots there.
And SEIU stands to gain twice from O's health plan. First, they have unionized health care workers. They stand to benefit certainly from any legislation that impacts health care. That's okay.
But second there are provisions in some of the current material for those businesses with UNION employees to benefit from this legislation. Those businesses who have non-union employees will be penalized.
And guess who will be at the door of those businesses, waiting with Card Check smiles and Union cards? SEIU, no doubt.
And what will more Unions do to business in this country?
ASK GM.
Sue| 9.14.09 @ 10:23AM
It really has nothing to do with a "common pool." Of course, the doctors and hospitals want to get paid. The problem is "what amount?" They are hoping that with government run health care, their reimbursement rates will increase over time. The rates are pretty pathetic right now and they are making it up on the private payers and they are getting angry over it.
The government option will force everyone into the pool with the government being the "single-payer." This will eliminate a lot of paper work for the providers as well as back office labor costs.
The government will try to "fix" the problem by playing on the tax "spread." If the corporate tax rate is now at 34% and the corporations shove their employees onto the government roles, they will no longer have the "expense deduction" thereby, creating an increase to the bottom line and increased government tax revenues. You never hear this discussed. The corporations will not raise its employee's wage to compensate for the lost "benefit." They can't possibly do this. They have controlled the premium costs via big group policy discounts. Does anyone really think they'll be getting a big, fat raise?
With the increased taxes from the Corporations, the government will have more money to waste. It won't go to health care, I assure you.
Sue| 9.14.09 @ 10:32AM
Someone, somewhere should write about this. Wal-Mart will gladly throw its employees under the bus, even at the risk of paying out more in corporate taxes. As anyone with a brain knows, the taxes are passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices.
It's a win-win for Walmart. The human resource executives won't have to bargain with the "evil insurance companies" any longer, they won't have to "sign up" employees and hold "info seminars about health insurance," they won't have to take complaints from the employees, and a lot of paper work will be eliminated.
The Wal-mart employees need to be asking a lot of questions, because you will be losing a "tax-free" benefit, and the money will have to come from somewhere to pay for it even if it becomes "universal" care from the government.
Remember, there is never a "free lunch."
Wal-Mart is just one major employer.
PolishKnight| 9.14.09 @ 10:37AM
Two corrections:
1) There is a significant group of people who pay more into social security than they collect: Black men. They die pretty close to the age at which they are eligible to collect benefits assuming, of course, that they haven't gone broke paying child-support for a welfare state that excludes them once they reach the age of manhood or puts them into prison.
The so-called civil rights movement has wound up treating with disdain the very groups that they had claimed to sympathize with: Working class white and black men. Leftists regard them as schlubs and now embrace immigrants because they can be counted upon to vote for their side in exchange for racist spoils. Until, of course, they outlive their usefulness (pun intended) and get pushed out of the back of the sled to lighten the load...
2) The leftists don't believe in a "common pool". There are "preferential groups" and "oppressors". Always has been, always will be, whereever the terms "socialism" or 'progressive" are used. The left is probably already now calculating which groups are more likely to vote for them (and considering how to maximize, or withhold for emotional effect, coverage) and which groups to openly exclude.
Ok, number 3:
We all know the effects that government cronyism and group politics in the states has on customer service. In Europe, where most citizens are in the same ethnic group, this factor isn't as obvious or a problem but in the states, it's hilariously evident in many customer service situations. Once they think they have their pension guaranteed for life, the white gloves come off.
"There are some days the line at the DMV doesn't move at all. We call them... weekdays! Hahahaha!" -- Selma, at the DMV, from The Simpsons
S.L. Toddard| 9.14.09 @ 11:09AM
"You lie!" is not a question. Does AmSpec not have an editor?
Alan Brooks| 9.14.09 @ 11:11AM
the underlying cause is: America is devoid of virtue,
otherwise why almost 20 years after the Cold War ended would a silly question such as "if Guantanamo inmates can get med care, why can't industrious illegals?"
politics today is dumbed down to the max.
Alan Brooks| 9.14.09 @ 11:21AM
Todd-lard, you are such a squishy lib you can float in the bathtub.
this is the most prescient of all:
'Just to anticipate a bit, "If we can provide full medical to terrorists in Guantanamo, why can't we provide it to hard-working illegal immigrants." '
the author is right on target; one step ahead as we will all have to be from now on. This isn't 1983.
But at least Obama will change things, if change is beneficial-- after all, change to what?
progress? progressing to what? biotech, GE?
I sense the brave new world of bio-med is going to be debated soon...
Jobe| 9.14.09 @ 11:40AM
Obama's first lie was that he was a citizen, which, in fact, he is not. If he were, he could prove it easily rather than spend almost 2 million dollars trying to keep the cover on the scandal that lies beneath.
warpublican| 9.14.09 @ 12:36PM
The new orwelians: the law may STATE that illegals are not eligible - but the law doen not spifically ask for proof of citizenship - which Nazi facist right-wingers now insist that we all carry our PAPERS wherever we go: thus, Obama is a liar. hmmmmm - let's see - the Bible bans homosexuality - but I can't recall a single command to actually VERIFY that your neighbor is not engaed in homosexual behavior - so not only is GOD a liar - but all those who spread ghis message are ALL LIARS...
glad to have that settled: God and Obama - big effin liars...
Adam Smith| 9.14.09 @ 1:34PM
The healthcare scam is just another way for the Dems to further cement power & continue the takeover of government & political power the Repuliturds have been fiddling their hands over for 20+ years.
Some facts on the impact of illegal immigration on the US economy:
1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year. http: //tinyurl.com/zob77
2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. http ://www.cisorg/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens. http: //www.cisorg/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English http: //transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html
5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies. http: //transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. http: //transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRA.....dt.01.html
8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare and Social Services by the American taxpayers. http: //premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html
9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens. http: //transcripts..cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two-and-a-half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US. http: //transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html
11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border. Homeland Security Report. http: //tinyurl.com/t9sht
12 The National Policy Institute, "estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period."http: //www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf
13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin. http: //www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm
14. "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States". http: //www.drdsk.com/articleshtml
Total cost is a whooping... $338.3 BILLION A YEAR!!!
Wait till all the healthcare industry is paying union dues...and all the illegals are brought into the fold.
Any idea what kind of new illegal immigration boom we will get if Obama rams this down our throats???
Oldefarte| 9.14.09 @ 1:38PM
The only PROBLEM with the COMMON GOOD theory is that NOTHING IN LIFE IS EVER 'FREE' and THERE IS ALWAYS SOMEONE WHO HAS TO 'PAY' FOR IT! Just out of college, I worked [and paid taxes] for 35 years [and am still paying taxes in retirement].; like many hard working/taxpaying Americans. The government benefits [healthcare, welfare, housing, food, education,etc] are all PAID FOR by taxpayers, and they are not 'FREE'. The problem has always been [1] government welfare benefits and [2] people not making use of the public school system to become educated enough to financially support themselves. Beginning with Rosselvelt and exploding with Kennedy/Johnson, these benefits have annually increased [never eliminated/decreased] and the taxpayers have increasingly been financially burdened with the tax bills for same. It is time that these government benefits are either eliminated entirely or substantially reduced. There are now second and third generations of families that are/have been totally supported by same; who do not contribute to society's benefit; and who are a financial drag upon America. If welfare was eliminated, America's employment numbers would skyrocket, because those now on welfare would be forced to work for a living. The high tax burden from governmental welfare stifles innovation and the work ethic, and needs to be deleted. The Americans protesting in DC etc are fed up not only with this welfaric healthcare proposal but excessive government spending in general. It's time to put all governments on a budget!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Marc Jeric| 9.14.09 @ 1:52PM
I contributed to the Social Security "trust fund" for 34 years, and made the following calculation.
There was first a reduction in my paycheck, and the income tax paid on that reduction. Then the company paid the same amount in my name to that "trust fund" - the money I never saw.
If I had been able to put these three amounts in the stock market fund, and let it ride over the 34 years, at the moment of my retirement I would have had a capital of about 2.5 million dollars. Instead of that I get a monthly pension of $1,400. Talk about the Ponzi scheme to outponzi all Ponzi schemes!
PolishKnight| 9.14.09 @ 2:39PM
"which Nazi facist right-wingers now insist that we all carry our PAPERS wherever we go"
This statement is strange since at the conservative rally I went to in DC, a speaker specifically bragged that he opposed a national ID card.
In theory and even practice, there's no need to carry "papers" wherever you go if you have no plans to vote that day, drive a car, charge anything on your credit card, or fly outside of the country. It's not fascism to expect people to provide ID if they want to withdraw money from their bank account or check into a hospital or buy something.
This is a good example of how the absolute libertarian viewpoint sometimes comes across as wildly impractical. With the lack of a decent national ID, identity theft is common along with illegal immigration. A clear, national ID would end both of those in one fell swoop (at least the former if the latter persists as a bureaucratic shell game.) Employers would have no excuse for not properly checking their employees' papers if there was a national ID based upon biometrics unlike illegals commonly walking around with state issued driver's licenses and birth certificates.
For the record, my wife is a legal immigrant and she is technically required by law to have her PRC card on her at all times. She doesn't. We keep it at home in a safe. It's simply too valuable, and difficult a document to replace, to just carry around everywhere including to the gym.
Listen, we're not in the 19th century anymore. We're not a cash society. We need an effective way to identify ourselves. Let's live with it.
Gill O’Teen ✝✡| 9.14.09 @ 2:55PM
Grzmlyk, you wrote, “But if I don't want the government in charge of my health care decisions because I'm a racist, how does that explain that I hated the idea under Clinton, too?” Surely, you are aware that the mr. hillary was our first black president, even placed his office in Harlem to be with his ‘brothers’. Said so himself, and we know that he would never, ever tell us a lie. Just ask your gal pals, dowdy and garbagealo.
warpublican, the reason the golden calf did not lie is that if his vision of immigration reform becomes law, we will all be citizens of a brave, new world. Therefore, just as there are no illegitimate children, there will be no illegal aliens. Your rather perverted logic that you twisted to fool yourself into thinking that God is a liar reveals to all exactly what you are. And it ain’t a pretty sight. You overlook that God’s greatest gift to us after Life and Love is Free Will. We can choose his path or we can reject it. That is our choice. He can choose whether to grant us an eternity in Heaven, or not. That is His choice. He does not require proof as to whether or not a person is a homosexual because He already knows. He does not need any of us to carry identification because he know who and what exactly we are, and He can see right into the deepest corners of our very souls. He can see right through us. I do not have to verify whether or not my neighbor complies with The Law of God. The One Who will judge us all knows, and only His opinion matters. I have no skin in that game. However, I do have skin in the form of my tax contributions in obumacare. I, who lack an all-seeing eye, an all-knowing mind and infinite wisdom do want verification that those receiving the benefit of my labor are eligible to do so. Go back and read your marxist manifesto, even there you might get a clue.
Gill O’Teen ✝✡
gill.Oteen07041776@gmail.com
Don’t Tread on Me!!
Adam Smith| 9.14.09 @ 3:10PM
Grzmlyk gets it.
It's the tactics the left uses that has guranteed them the success they have had.
Until the Republicans pull their heads out & grow a set, the Dem's will continue to savage them in the marketing & propaganda dept, and continue to do so successfully with a complicit & supportive media.
DTC OF AZ| 9.14.09 @ 3:54PM
Rammussen report said that Obama gains his healthcare support today with 51% favor-46% against it. I hope that the ACORN and SEIU are not the ones that play around with these voting numbers. Very disturbing poll numbers since many parasites out there love to receive the handout from the goverment on other people's expenses.
aware| 9.14.09 @ 4:59PM
Fine as far as it goes but, the day of reckoning won't be far off 2037 or even the closer 2017. None of these boondoggles, real or proposed, will have the chance to implode on their own well deserved merits.
Financial collapse generally will have wiped us out long before any one of these things get the chance to do the job.(Actually not us, but rather the "government")
Just look at the leaders, not just here but in lots of places(Eurotrash), SURELY no one can have the slightest shadow of a doubt that the innate raw talent for sheer catastrophe is present in boatloads with these pretenders. If you do then you are either a knave or a fool.
6 months to 2 years from now remember the smug assurance on the faces of these arrogant crooks when they told us how they saved the universe with their "economic" policies.
Pingback| 9.14.09 @ 6:25PM
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Robert Rosencrans| 9.14.09 @ 6:35PM
GM is currently offering a money back guarantee with the claim that they are putting their money where their mouth is, but in fact, they are putting out money where their mouth is. So go ahead, take the plunge. Go get a GM product and drive it for 60 days then return it. I'd like to see 600,000 people do it and bankrupt GM. Why not, you're paying for it.
Robert Rosencrans| 9.14.09 @ 6:36PM
That should have read "they are putting OUR money where their mouth is" since they are using bailout funds to operate.
Robert Rosencrans| 9.14.09 @ 6:36PM
That should have read "they are putting OUR money where their mouth is" since they are using bailout funds to operate.
A. Brooks| 9.14.09 @ 6:51PM
say, we can help the illegals who are already here.
How many of then can sneak in later fortreatment if they have connections here?
Codevilla doesn't know.
TJK| 9.14.09 @ 6:57PM
Oldefarte wrote:
"The only PROBLEM with the COMMON GOOD theory is that NOTHING IN LIFE IS EVER 'FREE' and THERE IS ALWAYS SOMEONE WHO HAS TO 'PAY' FOR IT! "
Couldn't agree more, and I would just add that the other problem with the Common Good theory is that the people who decide what's in the "Common Good" have NOTHING in common with those of us who are forced to give up what the "Common Good" says we will have to. Look, the bottom-line for me still, and always will be, fix the true problems with the health care system, dont make the mistake of equating health care with health insurance, and leave alone what DOES work. And guess what? Government involvement DOESN'T WORK!!!!! Every intrusion the government has made has caused costs to INCREASE, not decrease. Congress, get out of my wallet, get out of my house, get away from my car, and get back to what the Founding Fathers intended you to be. Not sure what that is? READ THE CONSTITUTION!
S.L. Toddard| 9.14.09 @ 7:48PM
"Congress, get out of my wallet, get out of my house, get away from my car, and get back to what the Founding Fathers intended you to be. Not sure what that is? READ THE CONSTITUTION!"
Does the Constitution say anything about establishing democracy in Afghanistan, or ensuring stability in Mesopotamia? What does it say about our treaties? What does it say about search and seizure?
Robert| 9.14.09 @ 9:30PM
Mr(?) Toddard,
Does the marriage contract say anything about taking the garbage out?
A document such as the Constitution or a marriage contract is in the first example, a general set of ruling principles based upon Common Law, and in the second, a general set of moral guidelines based upon religious doctrine.
That the Constitution defines as the prerogative of the President the power to declare war in order to ensure the common defense of the people bestows the Commander in Chief the right to use this power. If in the defense of the people against an enemy force embedded for sanctuary in the tribal remoteness of Afghanistan it is required to project force, the institution of democracy is but incidental in the force's mission of ensuring the defense of the nation. That democracies by and large do not start wars makes this a desirable consequence of uprooting the despotic predilection of waging war for political ends.
What is your point about treaties and search and seizure? The former is the prerogative of the President. The latter, proscribed by the 4th amendment, except in defined and limited circumstances.
Joe Pazdur| 9.14.09 @ 11:16PM
Because we don't know any better Bailey Button Ugg Boots , hadn't heard all those anecdotes about "death panels" and so on. Too bad for us. Thank goodness the US is there to set an example for us all ugg boots sale . Maybe someday we'll see the light and we'll all be able to have a hugely expensive system that leaves millions without insurance.
carol jeffery| 9.14.09 @ 11:17PM
They are hoping that with government run health care ugg boots uk , their reimbursement rates will increase over time. The rates are pretty pathetic right now and they are making it up on the private payers and they are getting angry over itcheap ugg boots . The government option will force everyone into the pool with the government being the "single-payer.
Catherine Longo| 9.14.09 @ 11:54PM
That democracies by and large do not start wars makes this a desirable consequence of uprooting ugg boots ukthe despotic predilection of waging war for political ends. Go get a GM product and drive it for 60 days then return it ugg boots sale. What is your point about treaties and search and seizure? The former is the prerogative of the President.
mus| 9.15.09 @ 4:57AM
http://www.game4power.com
S.L. Toddard| 9.15.09 @ 7:47AM
"That the Constitution defines as the prerogative of the President the power to declare war in order to ensure the common defense of the people bestows the Commander in Chief the right to use this power"
The Constitution gives the *President* no such power. It delegates to *Congress* the exclusive power to declare war. It delegates to the *President* the power to execute a Congressionally declared war.
It's called "Separation of Powers".
WBFRANK| 9.15.09 @ 9:52AM
D. Wickens: sorry... you lie!
Universal Health Care does work however: if you don't use it!
Anyway, what are the taxes in say... Canada... UK... France... Cuba.... oops sorry: Cuba is a dictatorship.
Michael More: liar! Yeah, lets see.... ummmm... yep, the next time I need major surgery such as a bipass, liver transplant, heart surgery.... protstatectomy... I will of course go to Cuba!
Ha!!!
I cannot see how the Liberals of the world survive: they don't think... only regurgitate talking points! What fools...
Yeah, they do survive: by taking from everyone else...
wbfrank| 9.15.09 @ 9:59AM
If anyone actually thinks that Obamas Care and Crap and Trade is about health or environmentalism are fools.
It is ALL about power and control. This government is nothing but a communist front. In 1944 a leader of the Communist Party USA had said that they no longer needed to run candidates for president because they had the Democratic Party! I have been stating the obvious truth for decades: it is now truth.
William Tucker| 9.15.09 @ 10:19AM
One last footnote. Allan Von Werder, publisher of the Franklin Newspapers, informs me that in a 1982 decision, Plyler v. Doe, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Texas could not withhold public educational services from the children of illegal immigrants. As long as they were living in the state, the children must be allowed to attend public schools. The decision was 5-4 from the Court's old liberal majority (Justice Brennan writing the opinion), but stare decisis, it still stands.
carter clay| 9.15.09 @ 1:03PM
there is no free lunch obamacare will cost us all dearly
Richard Baker| 9.15.09 @ 5:06PM
It's way past time to send the illegals, mostly illiterate Mexican peasants, home. This country has enough freeloaders and the number needs to be reduced. It's also way past time for the Mexicans to have the Revolution that will shake up their dictatorial government. Viva la revolucion!
JIm O'Brien| 9.15.09 @ 5:45PM
I sent my check to:
Joe Wilson for Congress
P. O. Box 2145
West Columbia, SC 29171
Mark| 9.15.09 @ 8:02PM
Longer life and taking out more that we put in isn't the only reason Social Security is going broke. Putting SS contributions into the general fund allowed the government to "borrow" from it and, of course, never pay back.
The same thing will happen with Obamacare. Any premiums the public option collects will get sucked into the national debt vacuum. When the federal government can't borrow or print any more money, say bye bye to your health care . . . along with all the other government programs you rely on.
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how many social security numbers have been issued since 1936 | Random Hot News links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
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Longer life and taking out more that we put in isn't the only reason Social Security is going broke. Putting SS contributions into the general fund allowed the government to "borrow" from it and, of course, never pay back.
The same thing will happen with Obamacare. Any premiums the public option collects will get sucked into the national debt vacuum. When the federal government can't borrow or print any more money, say bye bye to your health care . . . along with all the other government programs you rely on
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