The Obama Watch
Reality Awaits Obama
All he is saying, is give peace a chance.
Liberalism’s fatal flaw is that it misapprehends human nature. It does this in nearly every conceivable way, but its most basic fallacy is the notion that conflict is not natural, peace is. Conflict, therefore, will be eliminated if the ignorance, injustice or avarice from which it grew is eliminated.
This utopian fantasy is the underlying principle of President Obama’s foreign policy. Hence, he tours the planet apologizing for America’s (perceived) sins. This amazing spectacle cannot be chalked up to one man’s desire to be liked (though that surely plays a role). The president’s humility on the world stage is not therapy for Obama; it is therapy for our enemies and rivals. It is Freudian foreign policy. Remove their fears, and their hostility will disappear.
When Obama goes to Europe or the Middle East and agrees with those who say America has too often behaved as an arrogant bully, he is trying to change the way our enemies and rivals perceive us. When he orders the prison at Guantanamo Bay closed and bans harsh interrogation techniques before his administration’s review of them is complete, he is trying to change the way our enemies and rivals perceive us. But to what end?
Obama believes that the United States has enemies and rivals because of the way the United States has behaved in the past. It’s why he has spent so much time distancing himself from not only the policies of George W. Bush but those of LBJ, JFK, Teddy Roosevelt and James Monroe, too. Whatever America might have done to you in the past, he is trying to tell the world, you can’t hold it against me. I’m going to be different. I’m going to listen to you. I’m not going to impose my will upon you. I want to be your friend, not your master.
This thinking reflects another liberal misunderstanding — that intentions matter more than, or at least as much as, effects. Thus, as Robert Kagan and others have pointed out, Obama believes he can make foreigners like the United States by speaking softly and humbly while he continues, virtually unchanged, the same policies as his predecessor.
If the foreigners Obama hopes to win over have not yet seen the inherent contradiction between his words and deeds (and some have), they soon will. Were the president to take his thinking to its logical conclusion, he would actually end all U.S. policies that anger foreigners. He would withdraw all of our troops from the Middle East, dismantle the CIA, toss Israel to the wolves, and pull our fleets back to within our territorial waters (sort of a Ron Paul approach).
But Obama is sharp enough to understand how harmful this would be to our national interests. So he settles for continuing policies that anger our enemies, he just does so with a smile. He seems to believe that dialogue — explaining our non-hostile motives — will end or significantly reduce anti-American feelings. They won’t hate us if only they understand us. (Never mind that George W. Bush tried this same approach with the Muslim world.)
But if Muslims really hate us because we support Israel, then words and half-measures will accomplish nothing. Until we abandon Israel, the hatred will fester. If Muslims really hate us because we have troops in Saudi Arabia, then nothing short of withdrawing our troops will change their feelings. Obama is betting that the world doesn’t hate us because of our policies, but solely because of our attitude. So he’s changing the attitude while keeping most of the policies.
Obama’s belief in dialogue, in the winning power of friendly humility, will be tested not by the reaction to his speeches, but by the success or failure of his smiling overtures to those now hostile to our country. The results so far: Osama bin Laden has denounced him, Kim Jong-Il has mocked him by launching rockets and rattling his centrifuge, Mahmoud Ahmadinijad has defied him, and European leaders have refused his requests for more NATO troops and centrally planned economic stimulus programs.
The early evidence suggests that Obama’s attempt to win friends and influence heads of state with conciliatory speeches has not been fruitful. But we’re just getting started. He hasn’t had a chance to really sit down with Palestinians and Israelis and negotiate a peace, or sit down with Ahmadinejad and show him that acquiring a nuclear weapon is not in the best interest of world peace and security.
To believe that these and other such initiatives will succeed, one has to believe that other nations and peoples are motivated primarily by a desire to get along with others, and not a desire to acquire more power, land, prestige, or influence. One has to believe that the desire for power and status stems not from human nature, but from outside factors — such as a misplaced fear of American intentions, or a misunderstanding of a rival’s point of view. Fix the outside causes of their hostility, and people will revert to their natural, peaceful state.
President Obama’s approach to foreign policy rests entirely on that premise. If he is right, amazing accomplishments await. If he is wrong, reality awaits instead.
About the Author
Andrew Cline is editorial page editor of the New Hampshire Union Leader. His Twitter ID is @Drewhampshire.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (127) | Leave a comment
Related Articles
More Articles by Andrew Cline
More Articles From The Obama Watch
http://spectator.org/archives/2009/06/09/reality-awaits-obama
Follow us:
ADVERTISEMENT
SPONSORED LINKS
FLASHBACK TO: 1995
-
Pope Culture
A man of faith in a godless age is hitting Americans where it hurts.
-
Why the GOP Does Not, Like, Totally Suck
Mr. and Mrs. American Spectator Reader, let P.J. O’Rourke talk sense to your kids.
-
Dames at Sea
-
In the Absence of Guns
In Britain, defending your property can get you life.
-
The Metaphysical Martini
-
Counting the Costs of Clintonism
The debacle of this president’s administration is both a cause and a symptom of the decline of American values. Unless Congress impeaches him, that decline will go on unchecked. An eminent jurist surveys the damage and assesses the chances for the recovery of our culture.
-
Chuck McHagel
It won’t take long for conservatives to scratch this presidential wannabe off their 2008 scorecard.
-
The Legacy of Old John and Mother Fresh-Roasted
-
It’s the Best Time of the Year
The American Christmas, like the songs that celebrate it, makes room for everybody under the rainbow. Is that why so many people seem to be hostile to it?
-
The Bush Crack-Up
Was the President done in by the economy, or by the politics of the economy?
Clip of the Day
ADVERTISEMENT
Appleby| 6.9.09 @ 6:31AM
*I want to be your friend, not your master. *
There spoke the Black man who believes that all assertiveness, is ACTING WHITE.
Remember when Colin Powell used to be assertive and definite and conservative? Remember that prominent Black race pimps called him a *House N....r*?
Hundreds of years after slavery became a historical artefact, the Black man still sees the world through the prism of slavery.
Pingback| 6.9.09 @ 9:04AM
The American Spectator : Reality Awaits Obama : PlanetTalk.net - Learn the truth , n links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Pingback| 6.9.09 @ 9:37AM
The American Spectator : Reality Awaits Obama | links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
chuck| 6.9.09 @ 9:56AM
Obama is like a little-leaguer stick into the major leagues, he doesn't have a clue. All he has is his overwhelming arrogance that makes him believe that by his sheer greatness and power of persuasion he can make our enemies our friends.
Pete| 6.9.09 @ 10:32AM
*I want to be your friend, not your master. *
I wish his domestic actions reflected this sentiment more.
As a corrupt power hoarder himself, surely the messiah understands the mindset of petty dictators around the world to whom he bows and speaks softly. I think what is happening is incredibly dangerous and irresponsible - he is focused on destroying the country from within - who really cares about the rest of the world right now. As the article points out, he is just teleprompting his way to kudos from the liberal media and euro-socialists while in reality the underlying policy remains basically the same. He just needs enough time to grab as much money and power as he can from this country, and he is well on his way to doing it. Foreign policy is just key jingling with his left hand while the right is behind the curtains doing the incredible damage.
Nick| 6.9.09 @ 11:27AM
B.O.'s big show of weakness is only going to get Americans killed.
Like the fool who thinks he can pet the junkyard dog, he ends up getting bit. The only trouble in this case, we are the ones who are going to pay the price, not B.O.
In a way, it has already started.
Pvt. Andy Long was shot and killed by a terrorist last week. Pvt. Quinton I. Ezeagwula is still in the hospital. The Moslem terrorist targeted Army soldiers "because of what they had done to Moslems in the past", according to police. Gee, I wonder where he got that idea?
And has the drive-by media covered this story appropriately? Hell no.
Country Boy| 6.9.09 @ 11:38AM
"Liberalism's fatal flaw is that it misapprehends human nature. "
It is not necessary to frame this lunacy in terms of general human nature. It only needs to be framed in terms of Obama and his colleagues, on the world stage. They all lust for power. The simple platitudes that Obama offers them are like childrens' nursery rhymes. They must all be laughing at him. The only surprise is that we have a POTUS who is so dangerously naive not to understand this perspective.
C.... | 6.9.09 @ 11:45AM
In my book actions always speak louder than words because talk is cheap and not always meant for public consumption or export. For some dumb reason its ok for politicians to say one unsensible thing after another and nobody blinks and eye. Why? And when will the stakes in this politican game of chance change and will people ever wipe away the sleep from their eyes?
Big Leo| 6.9.09 @ 11:50AM
I tried the same line on a bully in fourth grade. When I regained consciousness, I was in fifth grade.
History a part of the future| 6.9.09 @ 12:15PM
Appleby
Black man still sees the world through the prism of slavery.
Would you also say that Jewish people did the same through the holocaust?.
Or would you prefer people forgot their History, because it suits your political agenda.
What do you deem as acting WHITE?
Your post is pointless, you can't force anyone to forget their History. And no one should ever forget the Holocaust of the Black peoples plight.
History a part of the future, to forget your past there is a risk of repeating its mistakes, it would be worthwhile to remind you of what we see happening in Palestine today.
Another Holocaust being committed on the people of Gaza.
Alex| 6.9.09 @ 12:32PM
Obama has just begun his apology marathon. It will last for at least another four years. The reason is that he has no other shots in his locker. There's no material substance at all - just an endless torrent of "dialogue" from a guy who's in love with the sound of his own rhetoric.
fascism rise European | 6.9.09 @ 1:08PM
Protest Against Nazi Nick Griffin at the European Election Count
Posted by Antifascist
Protest Against Nazi Nick Griffin at the European Election Count
Sunday 7th June 7pm
Manchester Town Hall
The hated leader of the British Nazi Party Nick Griffin will be at Manchester Town Hall on Sunday evening. This will be the evening of the European election count when all of the votes from across the North West will be announced.
Join the protest against the BNP. Bring friends, family, workmates, union and community banners. We will be in Albert Square from 7pm.
Tim| 6.9.09 @ 1:09PM
On the other hand, somewhere under a mountain near Pyongyang, a small, angry man is raging, RAGING that he can't get the attention he deserves.
Cal| 6.9.09 @ 1:11PM
"If he is wrong, reality awaits instead."
Reality always awaits.
Real American| 6.9.09 @ 2:32PM
it's called "naivete"
Gill O’Teen ✝✡| 6.9.09 @ 2:35PM
What everyone on this thread is overlooking is that obumassiah has been declared “god” by m-s-n-b-c. Evan Thomas appearing on Hardball with Chris Matthews reacted to obumassiah’s recent rock tour of the mideast and Suckozy’s “(obumah)” beach (am I the only one insulted by that comment?) by saying,
“... Reagan was all about America, and you talked about it. (obumah) is ‘we are above that now.’ We're not just parochial, we're not just chauvinistic, we're not just provincial. We stand for something – I mean in a way (obumah)’s standing above the country, above – above the world, he’s sort of god.”
So now the reader-in-chief is not merely a two-bit commie thug admired by bird-of-a-feather baby huey of Venezuela, he’s deified. The pharaohs of ancient Egypt were believed gods, so were the Roman emperors. Until defeated in World War II, the Japanese emperors were elevated above mortal men. When communists seized power they accorded their fearless leaders, such as Lenin in Russia and Mao in China, thrones on some socialist Olympus. After He brought The Children of Israel out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage, The Lord My God, engraved 10 rules in stone for His People to obey. Rule 1 simply said, “You shall have no other gods before me.” obumassiah does not bring hope and change, only despair and chains. We must act now because the precise moment this supreme bean signs his health care plan into law the game is over. Armed insurrection is a brave option, but we would be no more successful than was the Confederacy and for similar reasons. Taking a clue from the great Reverend Doctor Martin Luther King, Jr., I propose we go on strike. By making peaceful protest against the policies of the marxists in power by producing nothing at least they cannot steal it from us. By cutting off their money stream, forcing them to do without, we just might finally get their attention. They have already declared war on American free enterprise. It’s time we fight back.
lynnrockets | 6.9.09 @ 2:52PM
I GET A KICK THAT WE’RE BLUE
(sung to the Frank Sinatra song “I Get A Kick Out Of You”)
My state, thank God is not red, it is blue
We’re truly progressive, liberal yes it’s true
The only exception I know is the case
A few reps from the G.O.P., boy the Statehouse must be so lonely
Re-pub-licans now clearly see
They are a disgrace
I don’t care much for McCain
Giuliani doesn’t appeal to me
Jindal is without a damn clue
And Sarah Palin, “also, too”
Collins and Snowe they’re from Maine
It would be rich if they both made the switch
“Vacation-land” would be totally blue
Republicans would be so few
I get a kick every time the Grand Ole Party implodes before me
I get a kick cuz it’s clear to see, they obviously simply bore me
I don’t care much for McCain
Mike Huckabee doesn’t do much for me
Mitt Romney commands the flip-flopping crew
So I get a kick
S.L. Toddard| 6.9.09 @ 4:06PM
"Were the president to take his thinking to its logical conclusion, he would actually end all U.S. policies that anger foreigners. He would withdraw all of our troops from the Middle East, dismantle the CIA, toss Israel to the wolves, and pull our fleets back to within our territorial waters (sort of a Ron Paul approach)."
A George Washington approach as well. An America First approach - the approach of a Constitutional Republic, graced with being separated from Eurasia by two massive oceans, and graced with such military might that we face no credible threat in all the wide world.
As for inherent contradiction between words and deeds, witness "conservatives" profess love for the Constitution while cheering Bush's violations of it, and refusing to hold him accountable to it. Witness "conservatives" pleading "fiscal responsibility", yet voting (twice) for a man who outspent his democratic predecessors by staggering, shameful amounts. Witness "conservatives" feign horror at "socialism" while voting (twice) for a man who launched massive, LBJ-style federal social programs and increased social spending drastically in the process. Witness "conservatives" condemn illegal immigration and then repeatedly - unwaveringly - vote for a party (the GOP) who refused to do a thing to seal the border - who *maintained without cease* an open border with Mexico for the long, long years they dominated Congress and the Presidency.
What a sad, pathetic joke the GOP and its supporters have become. They parrot conservative principles when Democrats are in office, then just as soon forget them once the GOP is back in. They are, quite simply, without shame.
ThinkTank| 6.9.09 @ 5:22PM
When American conservatives get back to fighting for balanced budgets - not just tax cuts at any cost - then they might get somewhere
The NAZIS are back| 6.9.09 @ 6:00PM
AGI) Berlin, 9 Jun, - German local elections held during the Europeans this Sunday saw the victory of Neo-Nazism in the countrys eastern regions. The National Democratic Party of Germany (NPD) was able to have its representatives voted into office in centres of the four easternmost German federal states: Mecklenburg, Saxony, Saxony-Anhalt and Turingia. The Neo-Nazis will be represented in the town councils of large cities such as Dresden, Erfurt, Halle, Leipzig, Magdeburg, Rostock, Schwerin, Stralsund, Weimar, as well as Eisenach, birth city of Johann Sebastian Bach. The NPD was able to attain an average of 3pct of the vote, though it reached as high as 21.4pct in certain eastern cities such as Bargischow, in Mecklenburg. In Postlow, of Cispomerania, the Neo-Nazis obtained 17pct of the vote. The results were equally clamorous in Turingia and Saxony, with 19.1pct in Urnshausen and 22pct in Reinhardtsdorf-schoena. In the previous local elections the NPD was unable to gain any seats, while this election saw them gain a seat in every district they campaigned in. In Saxony the Neo-Nazis with 73 seats won were able to triple their 2004 results
AIPAC designed Nazism| 6.9.09 @ 6:06PM
It seem the AIPAC designed American foreign policies have got their desire at last, to bring back fascism. I am sure their ultimate aim is a third world war.
It'll be good for the Zionist Bankers, and the arms Industry.
Amused| 6.9.09 @ 6:25PM
Who is this guy?!
Pingback| 6.9.09 @ 6:50PM
The American Spectator : Reality Awaits Obama links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Nick| 6.9.09 @ 8:03PM
I know who will be glad if neo-nazis win: Arab and Persian Moslems.
They picked up where the Third Reich left off at the end of WWII.
Why do you guys call yourselves "Palestinians", by the way?
Don't you know that Palestine was a name picked by pagans who enjoyed sodomizing young boys?
S.L. Toddard| 6.9.09 @ 8:39PM
" I know who will be glad if neo-nazis win: Arab and Persian Moslems.
They picked up where the Third Reich left off at the end of WWII."
Really? Nick - have Palestinians killed more Israelis or have Israelis killed more Palestinians? Did the Palestinians force Israelis from their homes and confine them to ethno-specific ghettos or did the Israelis force Palestinians from *their* homes and confine *them* to ethno-specific ghettos? Do the Palestinians restrict the freedoms of Israelis - freedom of movement, control of their own borders, airspace, access to goods, services, food, medical supplies etc - or do the Israelis restrict the freedoms of Palestinians?
I'm just trying to wrap my head around this idea of yours - what *acts* have Arabs committed that you find Nazi-like? What are your answers to my questions above? Do you have any basis whatsoever for that comparison other than that some frightened pretend-conservative on the radio told you you should be extra-special-scaredy-scared because muslims are Hitlery was a baddy-man? Perhaps you know of a string of concentration camps muslims have set up for Jews that I am unaware of - like the ones we have for untried, unconvicted muslims in Gitmo and Baghram and so forth - you know, where we have caged and brutalized countless innocent non-terrorists only to release them months or years later?
Or is it that you are simply unfamiliar with the history of the Nazis (and of Israel, and Palestine, and America)? Many people who call themselves "conservatives" are. That is the only honorable explanation for how they can, without shame, compare Hitler to a shabby, inconsequential dictator like Saddam (a comparison which, of course, implies that America was a longtime supporter of a neo-Hitler, perhaps like Goebbels) or Ahmadinejad, or compare whole peoples to "nazis". Sheer, thick-skulled, bumbling ignorance.
For, if not ignorance, what else? Dementia, I suppose. Dishonesty maybe? Help me with this.
Nick| 6.9.09 @ 9:49PM
Mr. Toddard,
You wrote: "what *acts* have Arabs committed that you find Nazi-like?"
You mean other than the fact that Arab and Persian Moslems teach their children to hate Jews, call for Jews to be exterminated, and actually commit mass-murder of Jews based solely on who their grandparents were?
Gee, other than THAT, I guess they don't have that much in common.
Have you ever heard of Hitler's Mufti? He was Arafat's mentor. Hamas, Hezbollah, the Moslem Brotherhood, al-Aqsa; they're all a bunch of neo-nazis.
Israel should've wiped them all out a long time ago.
So Sad| 6.9.09 @ 10:26PM
"Liberalism's fatal flaw is that it misapprehends human nature."
I think you mean, perhaps, "misunderstands". Youre not very good with English, are you? How in the world do you apprehend human natrure? I mean, hire people who can speak properly.
Did GW Bush write this?
Shankley| 6.9.09 @ 10:30PM
Nick, are you really as dumb as you sound? I'm doing a study of severe retardation, and I could use you in a few experiments. Let me know.
Tom| 6.9.09 @ 10:33PM
Mr. Cline,
I thought your essay was spot-on.
However, did you miss the news that we in fact *did* pull all our troops out of Saudi Arabia? We just waited a few years after 9/11, so it wouldn't look like we were responding to one of the big demands in UBL's 1996 fatwa:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2984547.stm
Nick| 6.9.09 @ 10:40PM
Gee Shankley, what a thought provoking and fact filled retort!
Let me respond to you on your intellectual level:
You're a big poopy-head!
Get of this thread, YOU BIG DOPE!
iknownothing| 6.10.09 @ 12:56AM
I think TAS website is going to have to start moderating and filtering their forums. Unfortunately, their forum is deteriorating quickly - being taken over by spammers, kooks, and the moveon.org drones trying to start flame wars. Pretty sad, really. But when this idiot kids take over something (just like our current government), we have no choice but to have the grownups step in and clean things up.
Frankly Mr Shankley| 6.10.09 @ 2:25AM
Nick:
It all makes sense now. You're dumb but somehow think you're smart. Come to our Severe Retard Academy, you'll be welcomed with open arms.
And PS, you don't have an intellectual level, so its quite useless for you to try to guess the level of someone else. But don't let that stop from attending the retard academy. You're always welcome.
American To The Core| 6.10.09 @ 2:31AM
wuzhuhai, I agree. Republicans are neo fascists, but don't expect them to understand. They're all xenophobic morons. But perhaps I misread one point? You said they were all pathetic losers who would lose their shit over a 50 year old ugly woman running for vice president. Oh, that's what you said? I guess my Chinese is rusty? Aha, haha.
alleena| 6.10.09 @ 4:53AM
So Sad wrote,
"I think you mean, perhaps, "misunderstands". Youre not very good with English, are you? How in the world do you apprehend human natrure? I mean, hire people who can speak properly. "
The definition of misapprehend is to misunderstand. I think you are the one who is confused which is so sad.
S.L. Toddard| 6.10.09 @ 7:59AM
"You mean other than the fact that Arab and Persian Moslems teach their children to hate Jews, call for Jews to be exterminated, and actually commit mass-murder of Jews based solely on who their grandparents were?
Gee, other than THAT, I guess they don't have that much in common."
Ok, so no *acts* then? Just a vague allegation that some arabs teach their children to hate Israel? By that standard, Americans are also "nazis", as some Americans also teach their children to hate Israel. Does that make 9/11 justified in your opinion - that Americans, being a Nazi-like people, deserved it?
Honestly - that's really your argument - you class a huge swath of the population of the world as "nazis" based on that? Seriously?
It never ceases to amaze me - how simplistic the pseudo-conservative worldview is. Muslims are - as a group - "Nazis", because *some* of them are taught to hate Israel. And, since this huge percentage of the world's population are Nazi-ish, subhuman villains, then *anything* done to them is justified. No wonder you don't blink an eye at the fact that America kidnaps innocent people, puts them in cages and tortures them. Even *they* deserve it, in your simplistic worldview, because *they* are muslims, and *all* muslims are no different than Nazis, because *some* muslims are taught to hate Israel.
I know it's uncomfortable to do, but why don't you examine your own opinions with a critical, logical eye? The world is NOT like professional wrestling, Nick, with well-defined villains and heros, where entire populations can be classified as Nazis.
That is a child's view of the world.
Tenn Slim| 6.10.09 @ 10:18AM
Cap and Soc Socratic discourse, again.
Cap: The following excerpt, copied from the article, for your comment.
"It is Freudian foreign policy. Remove their fears, and their hostility will disappear. "
Soc: Fruedian FP, indeed. It would appear you have located a weak spot in our agenda/issues/FP academic essays. Cap, we have some 65 years of thinking about this moment of our history. To imply, to even consider that we will blow the chance, via some ancient rhetoric is clearly wrongheaded on your part.
Cap: I review the FP statements, the looks, the ideas presented, the responses, the Leader's apparent dismay at OBNA, the close ties he is abandoning, a mystery wrapped in an enigma, per Winston Churchill. It does seem like he is grasping at utopian straws, hoping for the best, soothing not obstrusive, and if one is phsychologicaly inclined, Freudian.
Soc: ALL is rhetoric. ALL is misspeak. ALL is sham. ALL is Aesopian language. ALL is double entrende'. IF youall want to see the truth here, watch the actual implementation, the actions, the movements of funds, the regulation changes, the rules implemented, don't listen to Hillary, OBNA, nor even Podesta, we LIE. That is the basic tenet of our manifesto. LIES are the means, the end is jsutified by whatever WE decide. Cap, your old folks of the 19th century will be laughing thier collective heads off. Having been thru this in the 1890's, the 1920's, the 1930's and the 1950s' you should know better.
Cap: Pardon me for getting your blood up, I only wanted a simple answer.
end
Nick| 6.10.09 @ 11:10AM
Mr. Toddard,
It is you who has the simplistic worldview.
In your world, TEACHING is not an ACT. Nor is it an ACT to SAY Jews should be wiped off the face of the Earth. And, according to you, it is not an ACT to STRAP on explosives, WALK onto a bus or into a restaurant, and BLOW UP as many Jews as possible, just because they are Jewish.
Or are you just this ignorant?
Americans who teach their children to hate Israel call themselves nazis, so no standard has to be applied. Again, in your world the terrorist attacks of 9/11 are somehow analogous to Israel defending itself. My ten year old nephews are more capable of logical thought than that.
Speaking of 9/11, did you forget about all the "peace" loving Moslems dancing in the streets in Gaza and across the Arab world that September day?
What should I expect from someone so ill-informed. And who doesn't have his own opinions and arguments, but just copy and pastes others.
Finally, I never once wrote "all" Moslems are like nazis. I never quantified it all, my mistake. But I will now. Many Moslems, far too many, approve of the indiscriminate killing of innocent Jews.
You are the one living in fear. In your "child's view of the world", we help Israel, Moslems don't like it, they attack us for it, you get scared, therefore the U.S. must stop helping Israel.
S.L. Toddard| 6.10.09 @ 11:38AM
“In your world, TEACHING is not an ACT. Nor is it an ACT to SAY Jews should be wiped off the face of the Earth.”
Words. I was speaking to *deeds*. What actions have muslims as a whole committed that they could be seriously compared to Nazis?
“And, according to you, it is not an ACT to STRAP on explosives, WALK onto a bus or into a restaurant, and BLOW UP as many Jews as possible, just because they are Jewish.”
According to me? Where?
“Americans who teach their children to hate Israel call themselves nazis, so no standard has to be applied.”
Wrong – not all Americans who teach their children to hate Israel call themselves Nazis. Regardless –because *some* Americans teach their children to hate Israel, by YOUR reasoning that makes ALL Americans Nazis, right? Your contention is that because *some* Muslims teach their children to hate Israel that makes “Arab and Persian Moslems” Nazis. The same must apply to America, no?
“Again, in your world the terrorist attacks of 9/11 are somehow analogous to Israel defending itself.”
I never made that analogy. By your reasoning Americans are Nazis, because some Americans teach their children to hate Israel. How could you then object to 9/11 – all it resulted in was the deaths of thousands of Nazis (again, by your own reasoning). Shouldn’t that be cause for celebration? Nazis are scary and evil!
“Speaking of 9/11, did you forget about all the "peace" loving Moslems dancing in the streets in Gaza and across the Arab world that September day?”
No – I remember that. Did Nazis dance too or something?
“But I will now. Many Moslems, far too many, approve of the indiscriminate killing of innocent Jews.”
How many?
“You are the one living in fear. In your "child's view of the world", we help Israel, Moslems don't like it, they attack us for it, you get scared, therefore the U.S. must stop helping Israel.”
Do you believe America has a responsibility to protect its national security or do you believe America should put Israel’s security before its own?
Nick| 6.10.09 @ 2:19PM
Mr. Toddard,
It is obvious English is your second language and that the concepts of logic and reason elude you.
To wit, *ACTS* and *DEEDS* are synonymous, brainiac.
You write: "I never made that analogy. By your reasoning Americans are Nazis, because some Americans teach their children to hate Israel."
No. Only in the world you have concocted in your tiny mind is that MY "reasoning". I made a simple declarative sentence, you seem to be having trouble understanding it.
Also, look up the word analogy (try straw man again, while you're at it). Let me demonstrate.
-Jews kill Hamas and Hezbollah leaders and take-out rocket launchers to defend themselves.
-In Toddard's world, Jews do this (and conservatives like myself support it), because we're racist and have deluded ourselves into believing Moslem Arabs are nazis.
-Extending your twisted logic, this means I must admit Americans are nazis too (because of the similarities I listed between many Arab and Persian Moslems and the nazis), therfore I must admit the 9/11 attacks were justified because nazis were killed (straw man). Oooooo, you really got me there!
You COMPARED Israeli treatment of the Arabs to the 9/11 terrorist attacks. That is an ANALOGY, Einstein.
Oldefarte| 6.10.09 @ 3:41PM
These obnoxious statements by the liberal S.L.["......As for inherent contradiction between words and deeds, witness "conservatives" profess love for the Constitution while cheering Bush's violations of it, and refusing to hold him accountable to it. Witness "conservatives" pleading "fiscal responsibility", yet voting (twice) for a man who outspent his democratic predecessors by staggering, shameful amounts. Witness "conservatives" feign horror at "socialism" while voting (twice) for a man who launched massive, LBJ-style federal social programs and increased social spending drastically intheprocess.Witness "conservatives" condemn illegal immigration and then repeatedly - unwaveringly - vote for a party (the GOP) who refused to do a thing to seal the border - who *maintained without cease* an open border with Mexico for the long, long years they dominated Congress and the Presidency. ..... No wonder you don't blink an eye at the fact that America kidnaps innocent people, puts them in cages and tortures them...."] are typically ridiculous! Bush's violations of the constitution? Really, I don't recall a S.C. court case, etc concerning same??? I do recall Pilosi & crew recently attempting to out Bush & company by claiming the CIA's falsehoods, and then [after Republicans' and CIA demanding her to PROVE same, becoming extremely quiet and shutting her big fat mouth]! If S.L. is claiming Bush's Medicare drug bill was akin to LBJ's Great Society programs/federal spending[including Vietnam War costs]; then that's the biggest fabrication since Clinton's I DID NOT HAVE SEX WITH THAT WOMAN speech! I suppose this S.L.'s claim that Bush's spending exceeded Lyndon Johnson's is supposed to be truth? Yea, liberal truthism! What BS! We taxpayers are still paying for Johnson's Great Society BS and the Messiah is adding to that in leaps and bounds--------------all to take care of the Democrats' indigent welfare class/constituents, who are too stupid and too lazy to provide for themsleves. As to the Mexican border issue, liberals-Democrats weren't concerned with that issue until they discovered the idea of fast-tracking illegals to the voting booths for their/D's political purposes[aka reelecting King O], complete with Acorn's free cigarettes, booze and money to pull the levers for PUFF THE MAGIC PRESIDENT! Finally, this BS about putting INNOCENT people in cages is absurd-------the same innocents that blew up the first WTC, numerous US embassies, the USS Cole with 20 US sailers onboard [tell your BS to their familes S.L.!]and lastly the 9/11/01 WTC [and 3000 innocent office workers]. S.L.---go spread your horse manure somewhere else; and go convince the 9/11/01 and thousands of US soldiers' families of your asinine liberalism!!!!!!!!
S.L. Toddard| 6.10.09 @ 3:44PM
“Only in the world you have concocted in your tiny mind is that MY "reasoning". I made a simple declarative sentence, you seem to be having trouble understanding it.”
I understood it fine. You claimed that “Persian and Arab muslims” are akin to Nazis because some of them teach their children to hate Israel. Ergo, in Nick’s reasoning, when a portion of a group (Muslims) teach their children to hate Israel, that group as a whole are Nazi-like. I am merely obliterating your argument – exposing the illogic of (what passes for) your “reasoning” – by demonstrating the absurdity of it. To sum-up: In Nick World when a portion of a group (Muslims) teach their children to hate Israel, that group as a whole are Nazi-like. A portion of Americans teach their children to hate Israel – therefore by your reasoning…
I know you can fill in the rest – you already did. That’s why you went back and revised your ignorant generalization.
“Also, look up the word analogy (try straw man again, while you're at it). Let me demonstrate.”
Yes please do!
“-Jews kill Hamas and Hezbollah leaders and take-out rocket launchers to defend themselves.
-In Toddard's world, Jews do this (and conservatives like myself support it), because we're racist and have deluded ourselves into believing Moslem Arabs are nazis.”
Wrong. Wow – that didn’t take long. You couldn’t go two steps without constructing another straw man. Cite where I ever said or even implied such a thing, or retract.
“Extending your twisted logic, this means I must admit Americans are nazis too”
Yes, you must – because a portion of the American population teaches their children to hate Israel, and – as you yourself argued – that is enough to class the entire population as “Nazis”.
“(because of the similarities I listed between many Arab and Persian Moslems and the nazis)”
You did not list any similarities between Muslims and Nazis that don’t also apply to Americans and Nazis. That is why your list (one pathetic, now discredited item long, by the way) failed to justify your classification, and why, by your clumsy reasoning, the Nazi classification also applies to Americans.
“You COMPARED Israeli treatment of the Arabs to the 9/11 terrorist attacks. That is an ANALOGY, Einstein”
Did I? Cite where I ever compared the two or retract.
S.L. Toddard| 6.10.09 @ 3:51PM
I'd like to thank Oldefarte for his attempt at... I'm not sure what. Demonstrating an inability to formulate an argument, I suppose, or regurgitate simplistic caricatures and storylines that bear no relation to reality. But, since he failed fantastically to address the hypocrisy of GOP voters I'll repost them, in case anyone with two working brain cells to rub together wants to give it a shot:
Witness "conservatives" profess love for the Constitution while cheering Bush's violations of it, and refusing to hold him accountable to it. Witness "conservatives" pleading "fiscal responsibility", yet voting (twice) for a man who outspent his democratic predecessors by staggering, shameful amounts. Witness "conservatives" feign horror at "socialism" while voting (twice) for a man who launched massive, LBJ-style federal social programs and increased social spending drastically in the process. Witness "conservatives" condemn illegal immigration and then repeatedly - unwaveringly - vote for a party (the GOP) who refused to do a thing to seal the border - who *maintained without cease* an open border with Mexico for the long, long years they dominated Congress and the Presidency.
What a sad, pathetic joke the GOP and its supporters have become. They parrot conservative principles when Democrats are in office, then just as soon forget them once the GOP is back in. They are, quite simply, without shame.
Nick| 6.10.09 @ 4:33PM
Mr. Toddard,
I know I'm wasting my time, but what the hell.
Here's part of my original statement: "I know who will be glad if neo-nazis win: Arab and Persian Moslems. They picked up where the Third Reich left off at the end of WWII."
Now because I didn't qualify this statement with "many" or "some", I left myself open to kooks infering I meant "all" Moslems, which is ridiculous. I corrected my mistake in my post @ 11:10AM today, by stating "many Moslems" feel this way.
Yet you continue to use this STAW MAN argument to try to prove your asinine logic. Why?
Now, you wrote: "did the Israelis force Palestinians from *their* homes and confine *them* to ethno-specific ghettos?" @ 8:39PM.
The clear implication is that Israelis are racists.
Here are two quotes from your post @ 7:59AM this morning: "Does that make 9/11 justified in your opinion - that Americans, being a Nazi-like people, deserved it?" And:
"It never ceases to amaze me - how simplistic the pseudo-conservative worldview is. Muslims are - as a group - "Nazis", because *some* of them are taught to hate Israel. And, since this huge percentage of the world's population are Nazi-ish, subhuman villains, then *anything* DONE to them is justified." (Emphasis mine)
How is this not a comparison of 9/11 and how Israelis treat Arab Moslems?
Do you forget your tripe as soon as you copy and paste it?
So I retract nothing, sir.
Jonny| 6.10.09 @ 5:38PM
I agree with Nick because he has a better sense of humor than the rest of you. Actually the other side just sound like a bunch of lofty-ego nerds with your heads stuck in books or something. Hope you find yourselves.
Ia sloo fund it funnee all the hypocritzes wining abowt bad intelegance and has bad spellung.
Allow me to summarize, in a clear manner, this thread of comments for the newcomer:
YOU are sad! YOU are!! yeah YOU! I'm pointing my big fat finger at YOU! bozo. You're more dumb than dumb! and I'm bigger and better than you because you're just dumb.
S.L. Toddard| 6.10.09 @ 6:41PM
"Yet you continue to use this STAW MAN argument to try to prove your asinine logic. Why?"
A straw man would be if I constructed that argument. I did not - YOU did. You then revised it after I discredited it. Which shows that, at least, you ARE learning. It's encouraging.
"Now, you wrote: "did the Israelis force Palestinians from *their* homes and confine *them* to ethno-specific ghettos?" @ 8:39PM.
The clear implication is that Israelis are racists."
No it is not. You *inferred* that, but I did not *imply* it. I do not believe that Israel drove Arabs from their homes, seized their lands and then confined them and their descendants for four decades in an open air prison because they are "racist". "Race" is not really an issue in the conflict - both Arabs and Jews are caucazoid Middle Eastern semites, i.e. the same "race".
But that quote you used IS significant, in that it's yet another in a long line of queries you refuse to address, so I will ask again: - have Palestinians killed more Israelis or have Israelis killed more Palestinians? Did the Palestinians force Israelis from their homes and confine them to ethno-specific ghettos or did the Israelis force Palestinians from *their* homes and confine *them* to ethno-specific ghettos? Do the Palestinians restrict the freedoms of Israelis - freedom of movement, control of their own borders, airspace, access to goods, services, food, medical supplies etc - or do the Israelis restrict the freedoms of Palestinians?
"Here are two quotes from your post @ 7:59AM this morning: "Does that make 9/11 justified in your opinion - that Americans, being a Nazi-like people, deserved it?" And:
"It never ceases to amaze me - how simplistic the pseudo-conservative worldview is. Muslims are - as a group - "Nazis", because *some* of them are taught to hate Israel. And, since this huge percentage of the world's population are Nazi-ish, subhuman villains, then *anything* DONE to them is justified." (Emphasis mine)
How is this not a comparison of 9/11 and how Israelis treat Arab Moslems?"
What the hell are you talking about? It's not because IT ISN'T. That is not a comparison of 9/11 and how Israel treats Palestinians. It's just not there. How can you read that and come to that conclusion? There is simply no comparison there at all - I do not compare 9/11 to how Israel treats Arabs in that excerpt or any other. I don't even know what else to say - I did not compare the two because I don't consider them remotely alike. Are you hallucinating?
"Do you forget your tripe as soon as you copy and paste it?"
You must be joking. Are you dyslexic?
"So I retract nothing, sir."
STILL?!
You should. I never compared 9/11 with how Israel treats Palestinians - that's just a fact.
Nick| 6.11.09 @ 5:10AM
Mr. Toddard,
Thanks for proving that I was wasting my time and that English is your second language.
I revised nothing. I clarified my statements for those too obtuse to understand what it means to speak in generalities, like yourself.
For the umpteenth time, I never wrote "all" Moslems are like the nazis. I never implied that "all" Moslems are nazi-like because "many" commit "acts" similar to the nazis.
You erroneously INFERRED this and constructed a straw man argument ("Americans are also 'nazis'") based on your blunder. I then corrected your absurd mistake, but you continued to falsely claim I stated "all" Moslems are nazis based on the "acts" of "some".
Why must you constantly lie? Is it to try to cover-up your fatuousness?
You then used your straw man (Americans are also "nazis") to ask the inane question about whether 9/11 was justified. Three sentences later you explain Moslems can have "*anything* done to them", based on your other straw man that "pseudo-conservatives" think ALL Moslems are nazis. Are not Israeli air-strikes on Hamas included in your claim ANYTHING can be "done to them"?
Therefore, a spurious ANALOGY between the 9/11 attacks and Israel defending herself was made BY YOU, based on your straw men that if one argues that Israel is justified in doing "*anything*" to Arab Moslems because they are "all" nazis, then the attacks of 9/11 must also be justified, because Americans are also "all" nazis.
It is a false analogy based on the two straw men of your making.
Nick| 6.11.09 @ 5:24AM
Mr. Toddard,
A little cut and paste to display more of your inanity. Enjoy.
S.L. Toddard| 6.9.09 @ 8:39PM: "what *acts* have Arabs committed that you find Nazi-like?"
Nick| 6.9.09 @ 9:49PM: "You mean other than[...]"
S.L. Toddard| 6.10.09 @ 7:59AM: "'You mean other than the fact that Arab and Persian Moslems teach their children to hate Jews, call for Jews to be exterminated, AND ACTUALLY COMMIT MASS-MURDER OF JEWS based solely on who their grandparents were? [emphasis mine]
Ok, so no *acts* then? Just a vague allegation that some arabs teach their children to hate Israel?"
Somehow committing mass-murder is not and "act" in your world, huh? Or did you omit this part on purpose because it didn't fit with the straw man you were constructing?
Nick| 6.10.09 @11:10AM: "And, according to you, it is not an ACT [...]"
S.L. Toddard| 6.10.09 @ 11:38AM: "'And, according to you, it is not an ACT to STRAP on explosives, WALK onto a bus or into a restaurant, and BLOW UP as many Jews as possible, just because they are Jewish.'
According to me? Where?"
At exactly 7:59AM, when according to you, committing MASS-MURDER didn't constitute an "*act*", dolt. How can you forget what you wrote three and a half hours before?
Nick| 6.11.09 @ 5:35AM
Forgot one question.
Is it not RACIST for Israel to "confine *them* to ethno-specific ghettos"?
S.L. Toddard| 6.11.09 @ 6:35PM
"Somehow committing mass-murder is not and "act" in your world, huh? Or did you omit this part on purpose because it didn't fit with the straw man you were constructing?"
You know what - I missed that. I wish I hadn't. When you were writing "And, according to you, it is not an ACT to STRAP on explosives... etc" I couldn't for the life of me imagine what you were talking about. It's clear now - my mistake entirely. I'll address it now:
"'You mean other than the fact that Arab and Persian Moslems... ACTUALLY COMMIT MASS-MURDER OF JEWS based solely on who their grandparents were"
Demonstrate that they attack Israelis "based solely on who their grandparents were". Demonstrate that they do *not* commit these acts as retaliation for Israel's acts, for being oppressed, for being removed from their homes at gunpoint, for having their families blown apart by Israeli missles or any other political reason.
Good luck.
"Is it not RACIST for Israel to "confine *them* to ethno-specific ghettos"?"
No. They are not confining them because of their race. This is a political war with a religious component, but it certainly not a racial one - THEY ARE THE SAME RACE.
I will ask again: - have Palestinians killed more Israelis or have Israelis killed more Palestinians? Did the Palestinians force Israelis from their homes and confine them to ethno-specific ghettos or did the Israelis force Palestinians from *their* homes and confine *them* to ethno-specific ghettos? Do the Palestinians restrict the freedoms of Israelis - freedom of movement, control of their own borders, airspace, access to goods, services, food, medical supplies etc - or do the Israelis restrict the freedoms of Palestinians?
Pingback| 6.12.09 @ 12:45PM
Steynian 363 « Free Canuckistan! links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Pingback| 6.19.09 @ 4:57PM
Reality Awaits Obama « MICROCON links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Pingback| 6.23.09 @ 2:13PM
Constitution Party Analysis – Part 5 « Lighthouse Patriot Journal links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
مركز تحميل | 6.27.09 @ 3:23AM
مركز تحميل
Pingback| 6.30.09 @ 11:30PM
One Must Know About Sports Betting Lines For A Fruitful Future - The Blog Planet links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
mike | 9.20.09 @ 6:12AM
Happiness
Trackback| 12.8.09 @ 10:52PM
nh credit repair, on nh credit repair, links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Pingback| 1.4.10 @ 5:33PM
We The People Stimulus Package links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
jordans | 3.30.10 @ 5:36AM
This is just a theory but I think it’s pretty sound.
Coat Dress | 4.22.10 @ 5:20AM
Jewish Directory
Hot Fix Motif
that's good.
a| 11.28.10 @ 7:57AM
aaa
vouchercodes | 1.6.11 @ 8:57AM
Let's see weather Obama can keep his promise
بنت مصر | 6.13.11 @ 4:54AM
gooood
شات مصريه | 6.16.11 @ 12:57AM
goooood
شات مصر | 6.16.11 @ 12:59AM
nice
يمنيه | 6.16.11 @ 12:59AM
gooood