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Breaking News
Three Presidents and a Hijacking at Sea
Lessons from LBJ, Ford and Reagan on what to do — and what not to do.
Hijacked at sea.
President Barack Obama has just joined an exclusive club of three modern presidents of the United States who were all faced with a version of the same problem: what is the right response for the United States when an American ship, or a ship with American passengers, is hijacked at sea?
The three other members of the club are Lyndon Johnson, Gerald Ford, and Ronald Reagan. The ships and incidents were:
1. The USS Pueblo — A US Navy intelligence ship captured by the North Koreans on January 23, 1968, in what the United States insisted was international waters off the coast of North Korea.
2. The S.S. Mayaguez — An American merchant ship seized by the Khmer Rouge Communists in international waters off the coast of Cambodia on May 12, 1975.
3. The Achille Lauro — An Italian cruise ship sailing the Mediterranean hijacked on October 7, 1985, by four heavily armed Palestinian terrorists.
The three incidents provide the dovish Obama with vivid examples of not only what to do but what not to do. First, the Pueblo and LBJ.
On January 23, 1968, Lyndon Johnson was virtually under siege in the White House for his conduct of the Vietnam War. The American left, in what is now a reflexively dovish pattern stretching all the way back to its beginnings in the late 1960s, was in full cry. Senator Eugene McCarthy of Minnesota was mounting an unexpectedly strong challenge to Johnson in the New Hampshire primary, and New York Senator Robert F. Kennedy was waiting in the wings. Former Vice President Richard Nixon, the hard-line nemesis of Communists from Alger Hiss to Khrushchev, had not only begun to stage a startling comeback from two earlier defeats but was now the frontrunner for the GOP presidential nomination.
At 2:34 in the morning, a haggard LBJ was awakened by the duty officer in the Situation Room. The USS Pueblo, which LBJ would later describe as “a highly sophisticated electronics intelligence ship” — a.k.a. a spy ship — was boarded and captured in international waters off the coast of North Korea. The ship was over 15 miles from the North Korean mainland, well outside the 12-mile territorial claim of the Koreans. Of the crew of 6 officers, 75 enlisted men and 2 civilians, 1 was killed and 3 injured.
Now what?
The ship was “virtually unarmed,” LBJ said. Which Nixon, furious at hearing this, immediately described as a “tactical blunder,” in turn infuriating Johnson. Why? Tellingly, the outline of mistakes emerges that in retrospect shine the light on the difference in mindset between even the relatively hawkish LBJ and the emerging conservative consensus on what would be described in the Reagan era as “peace through strength.”
The reason the Pueblo was so vulnerable was LBJ’s belief that “the cost of providing military protection for all our sea and air intelligence operations would have been prohibitively expensive, and under any circumstances such armed protection so close to their shores would have been provocative to foreign governments.” In other words, LBJ, already losing the Vietnam War for precisely the same reason — a fear of antagonizing the Chinese and the Russians — now found that the North Koreans had read his reluctance with precision. So, they boldly sent out two sub chasers, four patrol boats and two MiG 21 fighters. Surrounding the Americans, the North Koreans charged aboard the Pueblo with guns blazing, capturing the ship.
The ship was taken into the port of Wonsan, the crew blindfolded, beaten and stuck with bayonets. Next they were shifted off the ship to POW camps, where they were repeatedly tortured. The Pueblo’s Commander, Lloyd Bucher, told that his crew would be executed unless a confession was forthcoming, finally signed a “confession.” This went on for almost the rest of the year. In November, Nixon was elected president. In an eerie foreshadowing of the Reagan-Carter transition, in which American hostages were released literally as Reagan was being sworn in, the North Koreans set out to humiliate LBJ. In the Nixon-Johnson version, with the legendary hardliner Nixon getting closer and closer to Inauguration Day, the North Koreans agreed to release the Pueblo crew — for a price. LBJ must sign off on an apology, a written admission that the Pueblo was spying and a promise the U.S. would not do it again. Defeated, humiliated as would be Carter in a similar position twelve years later and for the same reason, Johnson gave in. Two days before Christmas, December 23, 1968 — 28 days before Nixon would be sworn in with full command of the U.S. military — North Korea released the crew of the Pueblo.
But they kept the ship. In 1999, during the Clinton presidency, the North Koreans decided to move the Pueblo to the capital of Pyongyang, which meant a trip back out into international waters. The Clinton administration decided not to try and take it back, so the ship is now on exhibit in the North Korean capital — as a symbol of victory in defeating America.
Next to be hijacked at sea was the S.S. Mayaguez, an American merchant ship hijacked on May 12, 1975. It was barely a month after what President Gerald R. Ford would call a “humiliating retreat” from South Vietnam and Cambodia, a retreat that came specifically as a result of the left-leaning Democrats in Congress cutting off funding over Ford’s objections.
About the Author
Jeffrey Lord is a former Reagan White House political director and author. He writes from Pennsylvania at jlpa1@aol.com.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (180) | Leave a comment
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Jennifer| 4.9.09 @ 8:46AM
Great, great article. I am watching...and waiting...as well.
Pingback| 4.9.09 @ 9:21AM
Ooops | QandO links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Aaron| 4.9.09 @ 10:00AM
Mr. Lord,
On the rare occasion that I see a mention to the Mayaguez rescue, I am compelled to read since it hits so close to home. Those men who died in that action are among the last to be listed on the Vietnam memorial for those who happen to visit.
Thanks for the article, it never hurts to remind just how important it is for America to use its power when our interests are threatened overseas just as Reagan did. To stand by and do nothing shows weakness and transfers power to those who have not earned it or deserved it.
George Bedway| 4.9.09 @ 10:09AM
The left wing of the Democratic Party, well known as "The trumpet that always sounds retreat," is the worst enemy this country must face. Composed, undoubtedly of many well-meaning people, it cringes at confrontation and wilts at hostile fire. Left unchecked, it will cause us to lose the republic.
Jeffrey Lord| 4.9.09 @ 10:32AM
Aaron...
Thanks to you for the note about the names on the Vietnam memorial. They do not get much recognition these days and they are well deserving of it. And you are right: "To stand by and do nothing shows weakness and transfers power to those who have not earned it or deserved it."
Even if the pirates aren't a threat in the same sense as Islamic radicals or the Soviet Union, everyone else else watches as we deal with these things...trying to detect the scent of weakness. If they do...we have a problem. Always.
George| 4.9.09 @ 10:49AM
Jeffrey: Great article. I watched the Pueblo drama on television as an 8th grader and listened to my Dad, a Korean War Vet, chastise LBJ for his lack of action. As a cadet at West Point, we cheered Ford as the Mayaguez and its crew were rescued, although we mourned the loss of our fellow warriors. And, as a cadet and a junior officer, I daily,cursed the fact that I had voted Democrat for the first time for Carter, as he continually failed the embassy staff and Marines taken hostage in Iran. In 1985, while stationed at Ft. Sill, OK, our officers class of Captains once again cheered the unfolding drama of the capture, by the 160th AVN Special Forces aviators, of the Achilli Lauro terrorists/pirates.
If President Obama does not order the US Navy and Marines to rescue the Captain of this hijacked ship, eliminate the Pirates (have them walk the plank), hunt down and sink the "Mother Ship," he will lose the limited confidence that the US Armed Forces have in him and disappoint a nation clamoring for a show of leadership. We have Marines and US Navy SEALS (my son being one of them) who are ready to fast rope out of a helicopter to rescue this Captain and sharpshooters who can eliminate the pirates in the life boat.
MAKE IT SO, Mr. President!!
Jeffrey Lord| 4.9.09 @ 11:14AM
George...
Thanks.
George for President!!!!!
Duane| 4.9.09 @ 11:18AM
This will be Obamas first conflict & I predict he will side with the terrorists. His whole campaign is to make him look great in the eyes of his followers. Another step towards defeat of our nation in the eyes of the world....
loulou| 4.9.09 @ 11:26AM
What hijacking? Has dear leader opined about it?
We need to get the sharpshooters out there and pick off the islamic terrorists (pirates) off one by one.
But that would get the Muslims upset so don't get your hopes up.
Big Leo| 4.9.09 @ 11:32AM
Here's his chance to prove he is an American president and not a French premier. I'm eagerly awaiting . . . still waiting . . . zzzz ... oops! dozed off for awhile.
Tell you what-- wake me when he does something.
Turk| 4.9.09 @ 12:07PM
One could agree that Ford's reaction was better than LBJ (how could it not be) but info after the event suggested that micro management in the White House precluded an orbiting gun ship from firing in support of invading Marines. So, our preoccupation with the sensibilities of the worlds practical defense of thugs, has reigned almost supreme. Can we expect more from our international socialist (at the best) president?
Freya| 4.9.09 @ 12:34PM
I'd heard snippets of the hijacking story, but I got the full low-down on the Rachel Maddow Show (of all places).
I predict a peaceful resolution to this particular crisis. The pirates aren't fanatics, they aren't (that) stupid, and most of all they don't want to die, so they'll probably release the captain in exchange for gaurantees of decent treatment. Of course, that still leaves the whole Somali piracy problem.
Good article.
Matthew Vadum | 4.9.09 @ 12:53PM
President Jefferson had an effective response to African pirates: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War#Declaration_of_war_and_naval_blockade
Son Of Sam | 4.9.09 @ 1:49PM
We SHOULD send the Special Forces out to exterminate these rat bastard pirates, but we won't, because the TelePrompter in Chief hates America. This stupid ass bows to the Saudi king like he's Dorothy asking the great and powerful Oz to send her home to Kansas, he apologizes for America to the continent that gave us Hitler, Stalin and Mussolini, and he won't allow us to call it a war on terror against enemy combatants. Nope, it's a "contingency plan against man caused disasters". AND, he is a morally callous slimeball to boot: he believes that children that survive an abortion should be left to die, while terrorists who've massacred American citizens should be allowed to live.
He is not an American President: he's an America hating foreign-born demagogue masquerading as President.
stay strong until freedom dawns,
Son Of Sam
Todd| 4.9.09 @ 2:39PM
jcrap,
Obama's "brilliant" words are not going to do a damn thing. I bet you are for respecting the rights of these pirates and we should just give them the money since it is our fault they have to resort to such actions. I got you about right? Unfortunately, we have a President who is a coward just like you are and doesn't believe anything is worth fighting for unless it is a left-wing cause he can get Acorn to do his dirty work. Good days for terrorist and pirates again much like the days of Clinton and Carter since Obama is a gutless coward just like them.
erp| 4.9.09 @ 2:40PM
Don't forget Clinton apologizing that the USS Cole was in the way of the Yemeni boat full of explosives.
OBXW| 4.9.09 @ 2:41PM
Isn't the penalty for maritime piracy death? Anyone remember Blackbeard and how the British Royal Navy responded to him?
Four gibbets on the Somalian shore would send a powerful message. Emulating the early American Navy and reducing a good portion of Mogadishu to rubble would be even more emphatic.
Louis Jenkins| 4.9.09 @ 3:07PM
Why doesn’t Secretary of State Hillary Clinton offer herself in lieu of the captive captain? I guess a buck and twenty cents wouldn’t be much of a ransom price and it is doubtful that she is worth that. In fact, the pirates may pay for us to take her back (Ransom of Red Cloud). We can expect the same intestinal fortitude as occurred during the US Embassy hostages, Tehran, incident during the Carter administration, and possibly a failed rescue attempt as Obama is an incompetent boob and will not allow the military to exercise its fullest potential. A president worth his salt would turn the Somali coast line into prime development real estate, or wasteland. The Somali pirates will be around for another 3 ½ years at the least.
OldSoldier| 4.9.09 @ 3:14PM
"get 4500 soldiers killed". If this is in reference to OIF deaths, then you need to get your facts straight (or quit repeating the same old lie). Nowhere near 4500 American Military have died as a result of enemy action in OIF.
FYI: Take the actual number of US Military Volunteers who gave their life for freedom in Iraq (you'll find it at military.com) and multiply that number by 3. That will give you a pretty good tally of the number of violent deaths in LA County California during the same time period as OIF. My money is our new incompotent "Rooky in Chief" doesn't even realize that Bagdad is now a safer place to live than East LA, USA.
Big Leo| 4.9.09 @ 3:14PM
A perfect solution would be to swap the American captain for Barney Frank. After all, Barney actually dreams about being held captive by Somali pirates, so it's a happy solution for everyone.
Louis Jenkins| 4.9.09 @ 3:15PM
"knuckledragging troglodytes?" Fortunately none of us were born in caves, nor do our knuckles drag. The pure fact is that as long as the world allows these pirates to make money at their insidious trade they will continue to do so. Even the greatest commie-fighter-turned-politician of all, Sen. John Kerry, is outraged. I understand the Senate is holding special hearings on this problem at this very minute. The thought of Senate hearings have the Somali pirates quaking in their sandals and recanting their Muslim beliefs.
Todd| 4.9.09 @ 3:17PM
Nope, just blow their little pirates ships out of the ocean and put their piracy to an end under military force. That is what a real President would do like Reagan but Obama is so concerned about their rights and Muslim opinion he will negotiate with these little creeps and the piracy will continue.
Louis Jenkins| 4.9.09 @ 3:21PM
"A perfect solution would be to swap the American captain for Barney Frank. After all, Barney actually dreams about being held captive by Somali pirates, so it's a happy solution for everyone. "
Muggery on the high seas. How darling!!
Hawkhealer| 4.9.09 @ 3:21PM
In case you have missed it we have already retreated to the Clinton era concept that these are criminal acts. They are being described as "criminals", an FBI hostage team will be talking with them, our AG doesn't know what we will do with the "criminals" yet and Obama has refused to answer questions about the incident at his news conference. It apppears that the cowns in DC haven't a clue and force does not seem to be an option, perhaps a severe time out will do.
Big Leo| 4.9.09 @ 3:30PM
The Justice Department is planning on suing them. They'll be so tied up with court dates they won't have time for piracy. That'll fix 'em.
ncatty| 4.9.09 @ 3:51PM
O-bow-ma
Pingback| 4.9.09 @ 4:01PM
Bow denial! « Jim Blazsik links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
stmichrick| 4.9.09 @ 4:27PM
It would be a pleasant surprise if the Community Organizer in Chief found it within himself to be forceful in this situation.
Alas; I fear he is saving his cajones for the next Ruby Ridge or Waco dilemna. These Somali pirates don't fit the demographic required for retributive action.
Big Leo| 4.9.09 @ 4:41PM
" "A president worth his salt would turn the Somali coast line into prime development real estate, or wasteland. "
"And you are a brain dead moron. I'm sure you'd feel the same way if it was your son being held hostage. "
Actually, I'd feel the same way if I myself were being held hostage. And double if jharp was being held hostage.
Of course, you could just give them lots of money to get the captain back. That'll work, and they'll never bother us again.
stmichrick| 4.9.09 @ 4:42PM
jharp;
Please explain how the world works as you apparently have determined that this President also knows.
Something tells me that it involves showing empathy for Islamo/Somali grievances against the U.S. and accepting a pirate promise that they won't do it again.
Colin | 4.9.09 @ 5:00PM
As a young kid growing up -- my dad always gave me a piece of good advise: "Son, if some punk on the school yard trys to steal your lunch money -- don't stand there and think about it, just kick him in (a) the n--tz , grab your lunch money back and give him something to think about the next time he decides to get a wise idea."
Good advise. But a problem for today's White House resident. President Barry's (a's) are the size of grapes. If "that" big.
This could be a long day, kids.
Paul Milenkovic| 4.9.09 @ 5:00PM
I believe it is in Tom Clancy's non-fiction book "Special Forces" that more of the story is told about Reagan and the F-14's and the Italian government.
It was a much larger committment of American forces than a pair of carrier-based F-14's and a couple of Navy Seals -- plane loads of special forces soldiers were landed in Sicily for a three-way standoff between the terrorists, the Americans, and the Italians.
The American commander on the ground radioed Washington about "what to do" and was told "Do what you think best." On one hand, it was a departure from the Vietnam era micromanagement of battle; on the other, it was the top brass and civilian leadership under Reagan shrugging their shoulders.
The guy-on-the-ground spoke of four terrorists -- the two "torpedos" or "triggermen" involved in the hijacking and murder, that Abbas character, and a "redhead" who didn't have a place in the script. Who was the redhead -- IRA? Iranian secret service?
The outcome of the standoff is that the Italians took the two foot soldiers into custody to try them for the murder of Mr. Klinghoffer -- it was an Italian flag ship and their jursidiction anyway, and the commander on the ground would have preferred taking them to the U.S. for trial if he had been backed up from Washington, but it was good in his view that the Italians stepped up to the plate.
Redhead dude and Abbas were let go. Read the Tom Clancy book the next time someone tells you that the Iraq War had nothing to do with international terrorism.
Skep41 | 4.9.09 @ 5:37PM
You crackpot Right-Wing types are always so eager to invoke names of bullying thugs like Jefferson and Ford without considering that these so-called 'pirates' might have feelings too. If Obama were to apologize for sending this 'food aid' spy mission into the waters that the Earth-Conscious Green 'pirates' are trying to save from pollution and overuse then maybe they would feel so ashamed of themselves that they would give up their piratical ways and sign up for some job-training and conflict resolution counseling. But no, you guys think that just because we havent yet cut the navy down to a couple of tenders and a small machine-gun armed cutter (thats in Pelosi's next budget) that we should reply by threatening to sink every boat on the Somali coast, bomb their crude villages into rubble and crater every road and airstrip in the country to lock those violence-prone savages away from the civilized world and let them turn their weapons on each other. That's cultural ethnocentricity at its worse. Sinking all their boats wont make them stop WANTING to be pirates, now will it?
Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 4.9.09 @ 6:14PM
I'm sure the midnight oil is burning in the White House as they get text ready for the teleprompter, and Obama can stand in front of the teleprompter and read an apology to the pirates who hijacked the ship. They are the only group left he hasn't apologized to at this time.
Belize042| 4.9.09 @ 7:36PM
"...invading the wrong country?"
Like, Bosnia?
Wicked Dickie| 4.9.09 @ 7:56PM
Aaron/George: May God bless you and yours sirs. As a veteran of Korea, the almost invasion of Cuber (sic) and Vietnam, whom our Democrats betrayed, I cringe that I was (tricked, I say, because I trusted the MSM) into voting for Idiot Carter. I hope and sincerely pray that President Obama-ayers acts with dispatch to end this pirate nonsense. Well, I can dream, can't I?
Mike| 4.9.09 @ 8:06PM
I can't get over Madam Hillary.... she laughs about a hijacking that results in an American being held hostage? To her it's just a joke, how pathetic.
lex rex | 4.9.09 @ 10:04PM
Great article, I sited it in my blog, Even posted a youtube video, thanks for your inspiration.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cU2CUgcj-0
Jeffrey Lord| 4.9.09 @ 10:35PM
lex rex...
Well done! Does Spielburg know about you?
Thanks!
Pingback| 4.10.09 @ 12:49AM
Biden was Correct - Obama being tested early - Page 2 links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
ruth| 4.10.09 @ 4:35AM
Best thread I've read in a long time. Maybe there's still hope. You guys are so funny--and so smart! (Except that stupid jharpy guy). Thanks, I needed this.
Pingback| 4.10.09 @ 12:03PM
The Fat Guy » Blog Archive » More Pirate Stuff links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
wanumba| 4.10.09 @ 12:21PM
THe Barbary Wars are the hostage-tribute models to study. Kick butt hard works. GO after the pirate ports and beat the crap out of them, and promise to beat the crap out of if they even look askance at a US merchant vessel, EVER. The Somalis think US ships as fair game now. They perceive Obama won't do anything. They did perceive Bush WOULD have done something rough so they didn't touch the many passing US flagged ships for the past eight years.
With the USS Bainbridge out there, it's a huge clue-bat that the Americans themselves are being pounded with, but they don't get it, because they don't know their history. Bainbridge's Naval career was notable for the series of HUMILIATIONS he endured at the hands of the Muslim Barbary Coast Pirates. It was DECATUR who cleaned up Bainbridge's messes and taught "the Barbary kings manners."
stmichrick| 4.10.09 @ 12:31PM
The U.S. strategy should include waiting out or going through the ransom procedure and extracting Captain Phillips, followed by an A-10 excursion up the Somali converting every visible boat into splinters.
The next pirate adventure should end with conversion of pirate palaces into sand castles.
Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 4.10.09 @ 1:14PM
Obama, Hillary and Joe Biden are on their way to neutralize an international crisis. Joe Biden states, "Look, I've got 5 twenty dollar bills here, how about I thrown them out the plane window and make 5 people happy." Hillary immediately speaks up as she takes a drink of Perrier from the flight attendant, "Well, I've got 10 ten dollar bills. I could throw those out the window and make 10 people happy." Obama, not to be outdone, immediately pulled a wad of bills out of his pocket and stated, "I've got 100 one dollar bills, and I could make 100 people happy if I threw them out the window." With that all three turned to the attendant and smiled and Obama stated, "What do you think of that?" The flight attendant stated, "Why don't all three of you jump out the window and make the entire nation happy?"
bitterweed| 4.10.09 @ 1:24PM
I don't expect Obama to do squat. I was pleased that the crew fought back..then I was angered that the crew was gullible enough to believe terrorists would keep their word and trade hostages. I haven't been that foolish since I was 3.
Navy seals should be put in the water, sink that boat, rescue the captain only and call it a day.
And then the U.S. should cruise those waters sinking anything afloat. To he!! with talks..bust 'em where it hurts.
That ship was delivering food to a continent that has no use for us..I oppose feeding my enemies!
jEFFt| 4.10.09 @ 1:36PM
This is a perfect example of what Hillary was talking about. What happens when the phone rings at 3:00 a.m.? Now we know. Nothing. He sleeps soundly through the night with no adult in charge to let him know what is happening. All you need to know is his comment during his "housing summit." He can't talk about more than one thing at a time, he can't multitask, to use today's lingo. He is inept, weak and an appeaser. We will all suffer as the world learns they can act with impunity and "O" will dither.
pete the mediocre| 4.10.09 @ 1:59PM
I wondered how many posts it would take before jharp returned to form and resorted to name calling: 2
ruth| 4.10.09 @ 3:00PM
My niece is a merchant mariner who works for Maersk; it makes me sick to think she could have been on that ship.
wanumba| 4.10.09 @ 3:40PM
American merchant ships in 1800 were called, "Fat Ducks" by the Barbary kings, because they were easy pickings, with no Naval threat to worry about.
In 1800, hundreds of Americans were held in North AFrican prisons for ransom and slave labor.
Bainbridge is the symbol of being humiliated by Muslim despots. One dingy with a handful of pirates holding one scrappy American hostage is holding off a warship named the USS Bainbridge.
The pirates are pirates, they want to live. It's EASY!!! An American citizen's life is a stake, but the prestige of America is also about to come crashing down.
The Americans of 1805 cried,
"It has been said that our executive lacking strong nerve would disgrace his country's call. Ask the Barbary pirates and hear what they have to say, have those pirates forced him a tribute to pay?"
Pingback| 4.11.09 @ 2:15AM
Three Presidents and a Hijacking at Sea | The Blog of Record links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Iaidoka| 4.11.09 @ 6:35AM
Another option would be to pay the ransom to get the good Captain off the pirates boat. Then blow it the hell out of the water when they drive away.
Alas, I fear that most others on here are right. Barry will do nothing. Except maybe apologize to the pirates. What for, I'm not sure, but I am sure he'll think of something.
Albert Demarest| 4.11.09 @ 3:27PM
Stop the nonsense! we do not negotiate with terrorists! we do protect our own and our special forces (navy Seals, UDT, Commandos etc. Have the know how and ability to end this garbage!!!
MT| 4.11.09 @ 10:50PM
Maybe if Obumbler bowed low enough to the pirates they would let the captain go. If our president is going to bow and scrape on the world stage we might as well get something out of it.
CH| 4.11.09 @ 10:52PM
Notice how the pirates didn't screw with George W? Proof that we are less safe now.
Pingback| 4.11.09 @ 11:23PM
Indiana Township Republican Party » How Reagan Dealt with Pirates links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
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popurls.com // popular today links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
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Three Presidents and a Hijacking at Sea | News Inventory links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
vibrator | 4.12.09 @ 12:24AM
Gotta take a hardline. No negotiations and no mercy.
It will only get worse if we don't do something to deter this behavior
MT| 4.12.09 @ 12:55AM
Liberals take a hardline with the pirates? You gotta be kiddin'--they save that for the innocent pre-born. Champs, ain't they?
af| 4.12.09 @ 1:25AM
I think what Obama is afraid of here is not offending the sensibilities of the pirates, but pissing off the voters with a botched rescue attempt. If he ordered an attack, odds are pretty good that the captain would be killed in the ensuing firefight (hostage situations aren't resolved as easily as in the movies). People mentioned sharpshooters, but the truth is, it's difficult to hit targets a few inches across moving randomly on the waves half a mile away. Its very tough to hit several simultaneously. And if the captain dies, guess who gets blamed. Right now he probably thinks, rightly or wrongly, that the pirates will give up after a while stranded on the ocean without supplies.
MT| 4.12.09 @ 1:49AM
This is about leadership--and Obama's got none. He's a disgrace.
Pingback| 4.12.09 @ 9:58AM
Three Presidents and a Hijacking at Sea « Trader Aaron’s Weblog links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
licnyc| 4.12.09 @ 9:59AM
I can't believe the completely moronic comments coming form the typical open mouth breathers of the conservative party. There is a Navy Arleigh Burke-class destroyer and a Wasp-class aphibious assault ship shadowing the lifeboat with a hostage, in addition to a Oliver Perry-class frigate.
The situation in Somalia is remnants of the bush administrations blunders with a US-backed Ethiopian invasion of Somalia in 2007.
Typical moronic conservatives only capable of lies and finger pointing, no solutions. Its like conversing with 5 year olds.
S.L. Toddard| 4.12.09 @ 10:13AM
LICNYC, eat shiite and die, you moron.
This site is not for liberal fags.
Charles| 4.12.09 @ 10:16AM
Technically, it should be congress and not the president to solve this issue. Section I article 8 of the US Constitution allows for Letters of Marque and Reprisal. This was specifically added for piracy concerns, why isn't this being used?
licnyc| 4.12.09 @ 10:19AM
S.L. Toddard: No facts? no valid repudiation? Thanks for proving my point. You must have missed nap time.
Big J| 4.12.09 @ 11:28AM
I was wondering how long it would take for someone to blame Bush. 3 days, 1 hour and about 12 minutes. Thanks for not dissappointing, licnyc.
Don't hold your breath waiting for this administration to do or say anything. I feel so sorry for the captain and his family. Relying on this joke of an administration to do anything is about like sending a 2 year old to do the grocery shopping. Look mommy, I got a bunch of candy for us!
The word PUTZ comes to mind, although I think that might even be above his pay grade.
Sad, indeed.
Pingback| 4.12.09 @ 12:22PM
Aaron's (Mostly) Business Blog: Three Presidents and a Hijacking at Sea links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Pingback| 4.12.09 @ 12:57PM
Pirates & terrorists - Page 2 - Texas Gun Talk links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
SomeGuy| 4.12.09 @ 1:58PM
According to CNN, the captain has just been rescued safely, three pirates have been killed and the fourth has been arrested.
So, kudos for Obama?
Pingback| 4.12.09 @ 2:18PM
CompareOnlineTrading.net - Blog » Blog Archive » Three Presidents and a Hijacking at links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
JBD | 4.12.09 @ 2:59PM
How about Kennedy and the Santa Maria hijacking in 1961? My grandmother was on that ship, details at Wikipedia. The press frenzy to cover the story was so great that one French reporter, who literally missed the boat carrying the rest of the reporters, chartered a plane and tried to parachute onto the fantail of the hijacked ship. He missed, got wet, and got fished out OK. The hijacking ended peacefully when the hijackers took asylum in Brazil.
Me| 4.12.09 @ 4:05PM
The idiocy on here is incredible. You're all a bunch of fanatic lunatics.
OH HELLO| 4.12.09 @ 4:37PM
I wonder if all you mouth breathing idiots are ready to eat your words now that the fucking SEALs were sent in and killed the pirates.
Nope, probably not. Ignore and move on to the next decision that hasn't been made yet to complain about.
MT| 4.12.09 @ 5:19PM
Bush's Military! Navy Seals rock!! After Obummer's bowing and scraping incident with the Saudi King, maybe he started to grow a pair. We're watching you weak weenie liberals. Closely. LOL
Mitty| 4.12.09 @ 5:21PM
OH HELLO--I thought you liberals told us that dissent was the highest form of patriotism?. We Conservatives are VERY patriotic--just watch.
MT| 4.12.09 @ 5:23PM
We're not eating our words, moron--our words forced the weak weenie Obummer's hand. Situation solved--GO USA!!
Cookie| 4.12.09 @ 7:30PM
Keep the gutless Liberals' feet to the fire!!
SomeGuy| 4.12.09 @ 7:53PM
So let me get this straight... it was actually Bush's military that did this, but only after your relentless blog posting forced Obama's hand?
I am in awe... nice work dudes!!!! Just imagine what else you could do with your wonder twin blog powers!
BRAVO USA NAVY SEAL HEROES!!| 4.12.09 @ 8:11PM
Damn straight, dude!! Obama couldn't afford another disgraceful foreign policy faux pas after his Saudi King bowing and scraping debacle. We were watching him closely--and he knows it. We would have had a field day at you loser liberals' expense. So, you're actually going to try and say that Obama is responsible for our magnificent military? Not even a stupid sh!t liberal like you is idiotic enough to try that one. lol
SomeGuy| 4.12.09 @ 8:51PM
Hahahahahahah!!!! Stupid shit liberal? Name calling? That's what you've got left? You seriously claim the only reason Obama sent the Navy in was to save face and avoid an onslaught of blog posts? You're that cynical?
And you wonder why nobody takes the right wing seriously anymore... keep living in that bubble, and enjoy your trip to electoral oblivion.
You can't even accept that Obama had already given the order several days ago, to use deadly force if needed to protect the captain's life? The Navy was simply waiting for their opportunity to pounce. They knew the pirates weren't going to kill their hostage -- he was their only bargaining chip, and the only thing stopping them from being vaporized by our military. Instead of sending our SEALs going in with guns blazing, they applied well-established siege tactics and hostage negotiation techniques, knowing that sooner or later the pirates would wear down and make a mistake. It sounds like we were even able to get one of the pirates to throw the other three under the bus for us. Nice work :) Sounds like our guys executed brilliantly!
licnyc| 4.12.09 @ 9:24PM
Great Big J, so you'll just pretend somolia is not a failed state after all the news about its invasion in recent news... during the bush presidency. Its like you people live in some alternate universe and facts don't apply. Now the captain is alive and the pirates killed- that doesn't wash in lunatic right wing nut job world. Hypocrites are sounding more and more desperate by the day, its pathetic.
Freya| 4.12.09 @ 9:32PM
Now that it's over, I stand corrected. Guess those pirates were stupider than I thought.
Nice work, SEALs. As usual.
MT| 4.12.09 @ 9:45PM
Any President of the United States who bows and scrapes to a Saudi King is a weenie. Obama knew damn well that Conservatives would eat his lunch if he screwed this up. Good going, SEALS--George W's military at its finest. We had Obummer by his nads.
Daphne| 4.12.09 @ 9:47PM
Of course our guys executed brilliantly, moron; they were trained under a republican administration. Black Hawk Down is what you get under weenie democrats.
Frosty| 4.12.09 @ 9:49PM
Keep the pressure on Obama's nads!! lol
SomeGuy| 4.12.09 @ 10:03PM
So Daphne, you're saying that Blackhawk Down was all due to poor training because Clinton was the president? It would have worked, except that our troops were morons? Seriously... not even we chickenshit liberals think that way. I thought our troops were heroic and the product of the best trained military, bar none?
If anything, it was a complex and high risk mission, hastily thrown together and with little room for contingencies (like the loss of a Blackhawk helicopter, and troops suddenly stranded behind enemy lines). It was a disaster waiting to happen. Our troops performed very bravely under the circumstances -- fortunately this was in 1998, so they had been personally trained by Bush 41 in 1992, right?
I get it... Republicans = Good. Democrats = Bad. If it's good, it's because of our heroic troops. If it's bad, it's because of the most recent Democratic president. Once you understand that, it's just searching for the facts that fit... right? That's what it really comes down to, right?
Have fun :) Try not to color outside of the lines or eat too many of your crayons...
MT| 4.12.09 @ 10:11PM
No, clown: Democrats are weak/Republicans are strong on our national security. Obama is already starting to gut the military; it's just a matter of time before we are screwed like Clinton left us pre-9/11. Only a kool aid drinking libtard doesn't agree.
MT| 4.12.09 @ 10:13PM
Our troops are the most awesome on earth; it's the weenie libs like you who are crap. You repeatedly cut back on our defense budgets and then wonder why we are attacked by terrorists. Stupid.
SomeGuy| 4.12.09 @ 10:28PM
Daphne,
I got the date wildly wrong for the Battle of Mogadishu -- it was actually in October of 1993, under Clinton's watch, but with special forces trained under Bush 41 (or possibly Reagan).
Still want to claim it was due to poor training under the Clinton administration, or would you rather switch to blaming Clinton for being president at the time? Your call :)
SomeGuy| 4.12.09 @ 10:51PM
But MT, Daphne said that the reason we had Black Hawk down happen is because our troops were poorly trained... I thought you and I both agree they're the best in the world?
What went wrong in Mogadishu, and what should Clinton have done differently? Remember, Clinton hadn't even been in office for a year yet, so it's a little soon for his 'gutting of the military' to be the reason...
SomeGuy| 4.12.09 @ 10:57PM
Oh, BTW how does cutting our defense budget have anything to do with being attacked by terrorists? Would we have prevented 9/11 if only our military were better funded?
Or was it that our intelligence agencies were set up for spying on a cold war opponent, rather than the human intelligence operations that would help infiltrate terrorist organizations like Al Qaeda? And how many warning signs did we ignore, on Bush 43's watch?
MT| 4.12.09 @ 10:57PM
C'mon on now, SomeGuy; we both know liberals are weak on defense. Don't lie--even though as a liberal it's part of your DNA. Thank God for strong Repub leadership--that captain is alive and well today, and going home to his family. I know as a liberal, it's hard for you to accept military success--just grin and pretend you're happy we saved the captain. You probably want to spit on those Navy SEALS. GO USA!!
MT| 4.12.09 @ 11:02PM
No, Clinton's Jamie Gorelick created a firewall between the FBI and the CIA to protect the horndog Clinton's sorry butt-- and since the two agencies couldn't share intelligence, the terrorists weren't discovered in time. Another liberal pig democrat responsible for innocent American deaths.
Daphne| 4.12.09 @ 11:08PM
Clinton rejected Sudan's numerous offers to hand over Bin Laden during his 8 year tenure as POTUS--he was afraid his poll numbers would be impacted negatively. Instead, 3000 Americans died violently on 9/11. Typical feckless liberal. This time, we're watching Obama closely.
SomeGuy| 4.12.09 @ 11:09PM
Are you freaking KIDDING? Maybe I didn't praise the SEALS enough times? Look, how many times did I say that our SEALS / troops / special forces executed their mission brilliantly? The only person claiming they were ill trained was Daphne...
Look -- being strong on defense isn't just about having the biggest guns and an itchy trigger finger. I'm glad we have a well equipped military, but maybe there's more to national security than just being able to vaporize bad guys.
We could have nuked those pirates... nuked Somalia... nuked Afghanistan... Iraq... Iran... that wouldn't have played well in the middle east, but it doesn't matter since we could have just kept nuking people until we ran out of enemies... lots of kids growing up knowing that we killed their parents... nuke them too. Then off to North Korea (sorry South Korea / Japan for the fallout)... maybe China too...
There's something to be said for using force when needed, but not being reckless... you know that bit about winning the hearts and minds of the civilians, whose support we depend on if we're going to be any good at nation building?
Call Obama weak on defense if you will, but this one ended well because of the combination of excellent SEALS, a quick thinking captain, and a very effective strategy.
And remember when GWB gave the Chinese an EP-101 plane, but we got the crew back safely? That was quite a debacle as I remember... Why didn't we just go in and kick their asses? Was he weak on defense?
Daphne| 4.12.09 @ 11:12PM
Yeah, Obama is weak on defense--but our vocal pressure from the right forced his hand this time--and we ain't goin' away. Right on, Conservatives!
MT| 4.12.09 @ 11:16PM
Kind of like Clinton firing rockets at that Iraqi baby milk factory to distract from his lies and obstruction of justice behavior during his Monica Lewinski scandal? You mean that kind of presidential itchy trigger-finger nonsense?
SomeGuy| 4.12.09 @ 11:25PM
Daphne, I thought that whole "Sudan offered Bin Laden to us" canard has been beaten down a billion times by now? Maybe you can provide a source to back that up? Even the 9/11 Commission Report disagrees with you.
And really... the whole firewall between the CIA / FBI? To claim that only exists because Clinton couldn't keep anything in his pants? If Clinton hadn't been a horndog, we could have kept better communication between the CIA / FBI, and therefore we would have foiled the plot? That's your argument?
I don't even know where to begin... or whether it's even worth it... I'd have better luck teaching my dog calculus.
MT| 4.12.09 @ 11:31PM
Dude, I know you're a lying libtroll--no problem, we know the truth. It's been examined closely on the pages of this very publication--and corroborated. Just remember--we're watching you liberals, especially the bowing and scraping Obumbler. Funny that you pretend to know calculus--flights of fancy on your part, moron.
SomeGuy| 4.12.09 @ 11:31PM
MT, I thought we bombed the Baby Milk factory during Desert Storm? Colin Powell stated that was a bioweapons facility... and Bush 41 was president...
...that was Clinton's fault too?
MT| 4.12.09 @ 11:33PM
Remember to keep up the happy face regarding the success of our brilliant Navy SEALS--it's gotta be killing you inside!!
SomeGuy| 4.12.09 @ 11:35PM
OK, it's been about 11 years since I took calculus as part of an Engineering degree, but yes, I'm sure I can still do it :)
Look, I'm obviously wasting my time here... You have nailed me as a troll though :) I love the reactions -- the canards, the name calling... calling me a libtard... a stupid shit... etc... you guys have exceeded my wildest expectations. Thanks :) You guys are the best.
YHBT. YHL. HAND.
MT| 4.12.09 @ 11:37PM
Clinton lobbed missiles at Iraq during his Monica Lewinski disgrace, remember? Or do you pretend that didn't happen, too? You're such a delusional libtard, you're probably convinced that Hillary was dodging vicious sniper fire at that airport in Bosnia. Snark.
MT| 4.12.09 @ 11:39PM
Never fails: Blast liberals with the truth, and the cowards ALWAYS tuck tail and run. Yellow-belly.
Someguy| 4.12.09 @ 11:43PM
It really isn't killing me inside that the SEALs succeeded. They're awesome. Got it?
Our SEALs are awesome.
But that doesn't mean we can just send them in through the entry hatch of enclosed lifeboat with armed pirates waiting inside and expect things to go well... or just assume that a massive advantage in firepower or training will alwasy produce a successful outcome. You also have to control the terms of the battle, and that's where strategy comes in. Obama gave our Navy the go-ahead to do what is necessary, and left the experts to work out the plan. Obviously, thanks to our excellent SEALs, effective planning, and a well executed siege, it was immensely successful.
And by all means, keep watching Obama... keep him honest. That's why we have an opposition,, and that's why we get to vote every couple of years. All we ask is that you put the nation's interests first even as you disagree...this is bigger than either party's political fortune. Dissent is patriotic, unless it's dissent for its own sake.
Have a good one!
Daphne| 4.12.09 @ 11:43PM
SomeGuy is the perfect example of a weak cowardly liberal--and he further confirms my belief that we should NEVER trust liberals to defend our national security. I don't.
Smokin Joe| 4.12.09 @ 11:54PM
Wow, there are some spectacularly ignorant people on this board. Kudos to Obama for not letting people blow it out of control, to the SEAL Snipers that got three head shots with three trigger pulls, and to the Captain for ordering his crew locked and safe away while he gave himself up.
What a story. Glad to see America gain some dignity with this.
MT| 4.12.09 @ 11:54PM
Good riddance, troll--keep your Obummer knee-pads on while you drink your fascist liberal kool aid. Turd.
Smokin Joe| 4.12.09 @ 11:56PM
In case there are some that enjoy some of the facts from this story, apparently the talks to free the hostage were going well until the US became persistent that the pirates would also have to turn themselves over for criminal charges.
Maybe now they'll think twice if given the opportunity to survive the US Navy.
Cookie| 4.12.09 @ 11:57PM
We need all of the dignity we can get after watching that Obama clown scrape and bow to the Saudi King. What a disgrace!! As usual, though, the Navy SEALS rock!
Smokin Joe| 4.12.09 @ 11:59PM
wow, you guys really have trouble getting passed trivial things here huh?
SomeGuy| 4.13.09 @ 12:00AM
Daphne,
Call me a weak coward if you will, but I've been engaging you on your own turf here. We can call each other names all you like, but it's not changing my mind or yours. We can't even agree on the facts. It's not worth it.
You'll go home and say that you won. Fine -- It's no skin off my back. I don't care, and I don't expect anything else. What do you want me to do...call in an air strike to settle this?
The only thing I regret is that I've wasted an evening on this... but it's been fun!
MT| 4.13.09 @ 12:04AM
Sounds more likely that TeamObama were trying to push their usual weak weenie 'criminal' rather than military strategy until the Captain was nearly killed, and then depended on the SEALS to pull their sorry @sses out of the fire. Bet ya dollars to do-nuts on that one.
SomeGuy| 4.13.09 @ 12:06AM
Geez -- I've heard so much about Obama bowing to the Saudi King... what's the big deal? It's not like he gave the German chancellor a shoulder rub... :)
I keep saying I'm outta here but this is honestly too much fun!
Daphne| 4.13.09 @ 12:08AM
Sure, like Waco and Ruby Ridge--you fascist liberals love to wage violence against your Conservative adversaries. Wouldn't surprise me one dang bit, babe. It's just against our foreign adversaries that you tools wet yourselves. I thought you'd left--what's the hangup?
Daphne| 4.13.09 @ 12:10AM
Obumbler bowed so low I thought he was going to fall on his face. Nasty. Or do you like that kind of thing?
Conservative Cutie| 4.13.09 @ 12:21AM
Ha ha ha!! They're gone-- Smells better already!
SomeGuy| 4.13.09 @ 12:22AM
Wait -- if GWB gets to kiss the Saudi Prince, you think you could maybe cut Obama a bit of slack? Just asking :)
Smokin Joe| 4.13.09 @ 12:24AM
That smell would be the lingering decay of the Republican Party.
Daphne| 4.13.09 @ 12:26AM
Shoot, I though you'd gone. Obummer bowed so low I just wasn't sure what part of the Saudi King he was trying to kiss!
Daphne| 4.13.09 @ 12:28AM
No, Smokin'--it's the stench of decay of your morals--if you liberals ever had any.
Daphne| 4.13.09 @ 12:30AM
I know that you liberal guys like that sorta thing, you know?
Smokin Joe| 4.13.09 @ 12:31AM
Your personal attacks tell me more than enough about your personal character and morals.
Forced ignorance should not be a life goal, but you show it to be possible.
And don't forget to smile, remember, we're all part of the Home Team - Go America.
SomeGuy| 4.13.09 @ 12:35AM
With all due respect Daphne, you're the one who keeps bringing the man-on-man talk into a discussion about pirates and men stranded at sea :) That makes it a little tough to talk about morals here...
Not accusing... Just sayin'... :)
Daphne| 4.13.09 @ 12:36AM
Thanks for your wisdom. I'm so friggin' lucky that the sage of libtard trolls is here to guide and lecture me on the benefits of patriotism. Just damn! Where was that wisdom, that patriotism from your side when 'BusHitler' was in office? Screw yourself, moron.
Daphne| 4.13.09 @ 12:38AM
One time, loser. The other times were in your perverted head. You're just projecting.
SomeGuy| 4.13.09 @ 12:47AM
Well, whatever you say :) But I like your feisty character :) You're a lot of fun, even though you call me a libtard and loser. Or do you really mean that? Because you sound like a fun person in real life :) Even if you're a little hard to agree with...
Daphne| 4.13.09 @ 12:48AM
I find you liberals amusing. During the eight years of George W's presidency, you were all about the moral obligation of dissent. I remember you guys bleating "Truth to Power" constantly. You rooted against your country in Iraq, and you bad-mouthed a healthy economy for 6 years. You protested violently and constantly--no nastiness toward the president was beneath you. Now that your Obumbler has won the presidency, you're all about unity, patriotism, guilt trips, and the American way. There's no word in the English language that is vile enough to describe you. Suffice it to say; I loathe you all.
Daphne| 4.13.09 @ 12:53AM
I am a great girl, actually. I'm probably one of the most decent people around--it hurts me to see anything/anyone suffer. I also love my country and I'm worried sick about our future. This is not fun and games for me--I'm scared of you on the left. I don't trust you.
SomeGuy| 4.13.09 @ 1:21AM
Daphne,
Honestly, I believe you when you say you're a great girl. You're geniune, and I respect that.
We on the left are not evil -- please don't be afraid of us. Just listen to us... our arguments... ideas... we'll consider yours... somewhere in the middle we'll meet I think.
Sure, there are some rabid loudmouths on our side, just as there are some rabid loudmouths on yours. We all want the same things, even if we disagree on how to get there... we're not enemies, after all :)
Tonight has been fun, but it also shows we have a long way to go. It's one thing if both sides disagree strongly, but if they don't even trust each other or debate honestly, then it's no longer fun and games. We're all people... we're adults... we all want to live our daily lives knowing that we'll be safe and secure, that we'll be able to put food on the table, and that we'll have a house to live in. We just disagree about philosophy...
I don't expect you to trust us... just spend a bit of time to understand where we're coming from and what makes us tick... I think you'll find we're good people too :) Well, most of us anyway... heck, I'm up for a beer with anybody who won't smash the bottle over my head :)
Have a Good night!
Daphne| 4.13.09 @ 1:32AM
You leftists use guile and deceit--ain't my style. You seem nice--maybe in another time, another place we could have been great friends. Not now; trust is gone. Good bye.
Smokin Joe| 4.13.09 @ 8:29AM
Judge not lest ye be judged, Daphne.
Squid| 4.13.09 @ 9:19AM
Obama kicks ass!!! I continue to wonder how anyone thinks he doesn't. In 8 years he'll have the rest of the world in the palm of his hand - UNLIKE BUSH!!!
wow | 4.13.09 @ 9:45AM
Sure, like Waco and Ruby Ridge--you fascist liberals love to wage violence against your Conservative adversaries. Wouldn't surprise me one dang bit, babe. It's just against our foreign adversaries that you tools wet yourselves. I thought you'd left--what's the hangup??
Paul Crowley| 4.13.09 @ 10:33AM
=>“The American left, in what is now a reflexively dovish pattern stretching all the way back to its beginnings in the late 1960s, was in full cry. Senator Eugene McCarthy of Minnesota was mounting an unexpectedly strong challenge to Johnson in the New
Hampshire primary, and New York Senator Robert F. Kennedy was waiting in the wings.Former Vice President Richard Nixon, the hard-line nemesis of Communists from Alger Hiss to Khrushchev, had not only begun to stage a startling comeback from two earlier defeats but was now the frontrunner for the GOP presidential nomination.” [Jeffrey Lord]
This is rubbish.
I remember the elections of 1968.
First: Robert Kennedy was no “dove.”
->The Presidential Elections of 1968.
I remember the Presidential Elections of 1968.
I remember the Republican Party-organized Protests at Hubert Humphrey’s ‘last-minute,’ coast-to-coast-airports-stops campaign on the “eve of the election.”
Hundreds of young adolescent males (most all too young to vote), organized and chanting:
NIXON, NIXON, NIXON, . . .
At The Top Of Their Lungs, so as to drown out Humphrey and Humphrey supporters.
CONTEXT (some).
The voting age was still 21 years old in 1968.
The majority of the adult population, of voting age, in 1968 was comprised of members of the so-called “Lost Generation,” “Greatest Generation,” Proto-boomer WWII babies and first 2 years of the “Baby Boom” (those born, 1946-47), and the last of those who preceded the "Lost Generation."
American veterans of foreign wars in 1968:
The majority of WWI, WWII, Korean War veterans, and veterans of the many expeditions, 1914-1965, and the last of the Spanish-American War veterans were still alive (Literally tens of millions of American war veterans).
WWI veterans who were 18 years old (the majority of the 5 Million or so) in 1917-18, were 68-69 years old in 1968.
WWII veterans were in their early to mid-40s and older.
The American population of 1968 bore no resemblence, What So Ever, to the American
population of 2004, or today.
PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES
Three major presidential candidates were:
Richard Nixon, Hubert Humphrey, and George
Wallace
(in order of how they placed in the final election).
->Richard Nixon
Richard Nixon was the Republican Party’s Presidential Candidate.
-Richard Nixon & the Vietnam War:
Richard Nixon was “The DOVE” of 1968.
Richard Nixon advocated ending the war in Vietnam.
He promised that he possessed a plan to end the war, but couldn’t give its details.
John Kerry’s position on Iraq in 2004 was identical to Richard Nixon’s position on the Vietnam War in 1968 (regardless that the physical situation in Iraq in 2004 bore no similarity at all that of Vietnam in 1968).
->Hubert Humphrey
Hubert Humphrey was the Democratic Party’s Presidential Candidate.
Hubert Humphrey was Vice President of the U.S.A.
-Hubert Humphrey & the Vietnam War:
Hubert Humphrey was the “MODERATE” of 1968.
Humphrey's position was to continue the war while working toward a resolution of its cause.
No major presidential candidate in 2004 had a position identical to Hubert Humphre’s
position on the Vietnam War in 1968.
->George Wallace
A life-long Democratic Party politician (with the only exception being the presidential elections of 1968).
George Wallace campaigned as the presidential candidate of his American Independent Party.
-George Wallace & the Vietnam War:
George Wallace was “The HAWK” of 1968.
George Wallace was the only major candidate in 1968 that had what could be called a “pro-war” position, by standards then or now.
“America needs to stop pussyfooting around in Vietnam.” --George Wallace, 1968.
Wallace’s position on the Vietnam War was that if elected he would have a study performed, so as to adjust the tactics to win it.
G.W. Bush’s position on Iraq in 2004 was virtually identical to George Wallace’s position on the Vietnam War in 1968 (regardless that the physical situation in Iraq in 2004 bore no similarity at all that of Vietnam in 1968).
However, A MAJOR difference between George Wallace in 1968 and George W. Bush in 2004, is that George Wallace spoke in complete and intelligible sentences, and conducted himself with more dignity and poise.
As an aside:
Curtis LeMay was the American Independent Party’s vice-presidential candidate in 1968.
(A.K.A. “George Wallace’s running mate”).
Curtis LeMay, General, USAF, ret. was a French-American, and a war hero.
General LeMay commanded the Army air forces strategic bombing campaign against Japan, 1944-45.
General LeMay went on to command the new Strategic Air Command (SAC) after WWII.
General LeMay was an ex Chief of Staff, USAF.
NOW
The Question
Given that General LeMay was a French-American, THEN:
Does that make him a “cheese-eating surrender Monkey” per the cartoon character Bart Simpson (of the disgusting cartoon, “The Simpsons”)?
Or per the many people, especially so-called Generation Xers, Who Have Been Taught to
repeat this asinine line delivered via the cartoon characterization of an embarrassingly
pathetic child?
Paul Crowley| 4.13.09 @ 10:45AM
p.t.crowley@world.att.net
=>“1. The USS Pueblo -- A US Navy intelligence ship captured by the North Koreans on January 23, 1968, in what the United States insisted was international waters off the coast of North Korea.” [By Jeffrey Lord]
Lest We Forget
Remember the U.S.S. Liberty, June 1967.
She was the same class of vessel as the Pueblo.
The Liberty incident preceded the Pueblo incident by only a matter of months.
It wasn’t a hijacking.
It was something far worse: An unprovoked military assault upon an American warship, in what all countries involved recognized as international waters, that resulted in the majority of the American sailors of her crew becoming casualties (killed and wounded).
Attacked by Israeli air and naval forces during the Israeli-Arab War in June of 1967.
Did the North Koreans learn, by way of an example from the Israelis, a lesson regarding how to deal with American reconnaissance vessels?
At least the North Koreans didn’t kill and maim for life as many American sailors in 1968, as the Israelis did in 1967.
Cookie| 4.13.09 @ 11:21AM
You've already judged us harshly, Smokin'--it's time to return the favor. Just remember--we're watching your Obumbler. Hold his feet to the fire, Conservatives!!
MT| 4.13.09 @ 11:26AM
Another 'major' difference between George W. and George Wallace was the fact that Wallace was a vicious racist democrat--left that little nugget out. Why?
Paul Crowley| 4.13.09 @ 4:37PM
"Another 'major' difference between George W. and George Wallace was the fact that Wallace was a vicious racist democrat--left that little nugget out. Why?" [MT]
Hi MT:
Why?
Because I wouldn't think to phrase anything the way that you phrased what you call your "little nugget."
I stated quite clearly that George Wallace was:
"A life-long Democratic Party politician (with the only exception being the presidential elections of 1968)."
The main point of interest is that the position of George W. Bush in 2004 had the same position as George Wallace on Vietnam in 1968.
The differences after that:
Vietnam was a just war.
Iraq is an act of raw, naked aggression.
That's a major difference right off the top.
The other:
Wallace the Hawk of 1968, lost overwhelmingly.
G.W. Bush won in 2004.
This is a different country.
A country of moral midgets.
Now that I’ve spelled this out for you:
Go look at the difference in American veterans in the population in 1968 and 2004.
In 2004, it was the serve-nothing-but-themselves Xers of this country who gave G.W. Bush the election.
Pathetically, the only choice in 2004 was John Kerry, who supported the act of raw, naked aggression.
MT| 4.13.09 @ 6:21PM
My wording was irrelevant: You were pointing out flaws, and I wondered why you omitted Wallace's strident racism. Didn't bother you because Wallace had a strong command of the English language, right? Interesting.
.| 4.13.09 @ 9:40PM
u r all idiot.
CH| 4.14.09 @ 12:45AM
Eloquently spoken like a true libtard.
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Hubert Humphrey & the Vietnam War:
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David Nice| 4.15.09 @ 2:34PM
The article has a slight ideological tilt, and many of the letters even more so. The article fails to mention other efforts to get hostages released (like the Iran-Contra affair), including Carter's refusal to give any concessions to the Iranian hotheads who invaded our embassy. His strategy ultimately worked, although it took longer than most Americans had patience for. In addition, Ronald Reagan did not win the Cold War alone; every president going back to Truman supported the policy of containment and supported all manner of efforts to counter the Soviet Union.
The article and some of the comments might have a different tone if they had been written after Obama gave the SEALS authorization to fire on the pirates.
Obama Drules| 4.15.09 @ 7:14PM
Carter is a typical liberal wimp--his 'strategy' was a failure; just as he was as a president. Uber loser.
Think, then shoot| 4.16.09 @ 9:58AM
Of course the article fails to mention that the Mayaguez crew was released before the Marines hit the beach at Koh Tang. So we lost 21 good men for no reason. Just as peace is not always the answer, neither is violence always the answer.
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george smith| 11.19.09 @ 4:35PM
jeffrey, i was the aircraft cammander of the
abcc c-130 aircraft that was on site for 14 hours
controling the rescue operation of mayaguez.
i saw marines die, they are heroes. 239-514-1811
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