The American Spectator

Grzmlyk| 6.1.09 @ 10:22AM

Don't think of it as murder.

Think of it as a successful post-birth abortion.

Pro-choice in MS| 6.1.09 @ 10:37AM

It is murder, you snide idiot. Furthermore, it's an act of terrorism against a group of medical workers and the women they serve, an affront to women's rights. And before you get your idiot-argument motor all cranked up, a woman's personal right to plan her family (and the resultant life she will therefore lead) includes *not* having children just as much as it includes having children. I don't hear anyone calling for forced pregnancies or the illegalization of fertility treatments any more than I hear people calling for forced abortions in this country.

If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one. I don't believe in vanity breeding or adding to overpopulation, so I'm not having children.

katie| 6.1.09 @ 10:41AM

Well said, Grzmlyk.

Mark Anderson| 6.1.09 @ 10:45AM

Read the comments made by O'Reilly, watch the tapes. Bill O'Reilly incited violence, pure and simple.
Plus you are wrong about why Dr. Tiller was on the show 28 times, it was not simply the investigation and you know it. By the way, Dr. Tiller was acquitted of the criminal charge, you neglected to mention that fact. Did you forget?

Disgusted in Seattle| 6.1.09 @ 10:49AM

A man who has a practice, that among other types of care, performs a legal medical procedure, is gunned down in church. And this is cause for rejoicing by Pro-lifers who decry abortion but have no similar belief that killing an adult man is wrong. God doesn't want this. God doesn't want us to kill each other. If you are so against abortion, then work to prevent unwanted pregnancies and ensure poor women have good health care options so that wanted babies can come to full term. God doesn't want us to rejoice at the death of another and your gleeful statement of revenge is sickening. Get to work preventing unwanted pregnancies, providing better support for foster kids and crack babies. Dr. Tiller had as much right to be in worship on Sunday morning as anyone in this country. If you cared about his soul, and believed what he was doing was wrong, then you should have been praying for him and with him, as you should be now, not celebrating the loss of his life at the hands of a mad man.

Mark Anderson| 6.1.09 @ 10:50AM

Read the comments made by O'Reilly, watch the tapes. Bill O'Reilly incited violence, pure and simple.
Plus you are wrong about why Dr. Tiller was on the show 28 times, it was not simply the investigation and you know it. By the way, Dr. Tiller was acquitted of the criminal charge, you neglected to mention that fact. Did you forget?

James Masters| 6.1.09 @ 11:00AM

Is it not amazing that Killing Baby after Baby is not Newsworthy, but the succesful Post-Birth Abortion could raise such a Ruckus?

Indiana Alex| 6.1.09 @ 11:02AM

Don't liberal realize there are other ways to not have a baby than abortion?

Grzmlyk| 6.1.09 @ 11:03AM

Tsk, tsk. Looks like yet another tolerant liberal needs a time out.

Hey, pro-choice: I'm on your side. Line 'em up, I say. If we can't run an efficient national abattoir, what good are we as a nation?

In fact, I think you may benefit from my expanded definition of abortion. Care to volunteer?

Your acquaintances would appreciate it.

Hey genius: There are other ways of not having kids than aborting them.

NavyBrat| 6.1.09 @ 11:15AM

Abortion isn't really my biggest issue. I'm non committal on the issue, except for THIS particular one. What this doctor was engaged in is INFANTICIDE, & no amount of obfuscation will convince me otherwise. To say that O'Reily is responsible for this whackjob murdering this doctor is INSANE! Obviously, this dude had issues long before this, as Mr. Mc Cain points out in his piece. Please, would one of you O'Reily blaming idiots tell me how he's responsible, other than the fact that he says things the hurt your poor little childish feelings. G*d forbid we call the shooter a whackjob, prosecute, & sentence him & leave it at that. No, no, no. We have to find someone to BLAME for this putz going off the deep end & committing murder.

To me, this is no different than "peace protesters" committing violence to further their cause. It seems counter productive to me. No one in the media looks to place blame for the "peacenicks" & their violent methodology. Yet they are so quick to blame O'Reily in this case. The double standard & blatant hypocrisy of the media & the fools who believe them never ceases to nauseate me.

Crusader| 6.1.09 @ 11:17AM

I dunno. Kill thousands of babies and then have the audacity to go to church and be an usher? We all know what happened to folks who mocked God in the Bible.

Anyway, call me a crazy, kookie, conspiracy theorist, but this seems just too perfect. The timing, the person, the cause. I mean, the last month haven't we been reading A) Obama's hold on his base is slipping and B) the one thing that holds all kook libtards together is abortion? Was George Tiller sacrificed for the greater good? Its not like they can't get another kook "doctor" to start aborting babies at 30 weeks anyway. But again, this will probably be dismissed by all those "right wing" folks who told us we were crazy, kookie nutjobs for thinking Obama's election would usher a new era of Marxism into America. Remember how they told us he would govern from the center? Yeah, how's that workin' out?

It is interesting that this is being labeled as a "terrorist act" by the libtards. Get ready for that word to be bandied around with uncommon gusto in the coming weeks. Soon the scope of "terrorists" will include not only ol' Scott Roeder but every blue-haired granny that ever protested at a death mill, oops I mean abortion clinic. The all-powerful gubmint writes those "laws" so vaguely that just about anything can be described as "terrorism." Although I don't know how the 2nd murder of an abortion doc in 11 years is terrorism. I mean, AQ kills that many Christians on a bad day. Maybe the libtards should try to understand the underlying reasons behind Scott Roeder's grievances against George Tiller and show him a little tolerance, eh?

Interesting times, folks.

NavyBrat| 6.1.09 @ 11:18AM

"I don't believe in vanity breeding or adding to overpopulation, so I'm not having children."

Well, thank G*d for THAT!!!

Old Texican| 6.1.09 @ 11:23AM

Meanwhile...back on point.
No, I do not think Bill "incited" murder.
In fact, I believe he may have prevented untold murders of "viable babies".

I have a question of any medical-pharmaceutical readers here:
Isn't there an "implant" that prevents pregnancy for a year or more?
If so, why not offer them free on every street corner in the cities, and perhaps even pay the young women a bonus for "delaying being a mom"?

Michael| 6.1.09 @ 11:31AM

Time to call "Operation Rescue" what it is, a terrorist group, and then ban the organization and arrest Randall Terry. Bill O"Reilly also needs to face trial for inciting hate. I've had it with right-wing nut jobs taking the law into their own hands and getting off scott-free for encouraging the worst kind of hate.

Solstice| 6.1.09 @ 11:34AM

If you believe abortion is murder and that murder is wrong than ALL murder is wrong plain and simple. You don't get to "pick and choose" when murder suites your needs such as the murder of a Dr who supported womens rights to control their own bodies. If you are "Pro life" then there is NO justification for murder period. End of story. It is true that there are other ways to prevent having children and abortion doesn't have to be one of them so instead of fighting abortion and trying to strip women of their right to family plan, why not support "prevention of pregnancy" so that women who do not want children aren't in the clinics terminating their pregnancies. If we can prevent "unwanted pregnancies" we can prevent abortions but until that happens we can not go around killing those who support women's rights to chose and say it's OK.

Grzmlyk| 6.1.09 @ 11:43AM

That's right, Michael: How dare right wingers take the law into their own hands when you've worked so hard to take it into yours?

Hey, if you think O'Reilly is a right-winger, you've never listened to him. He's a hard core Catholic, which is why he's so vocal about abortion. But on many issues he'd fit in better with the likes of, well, you.

renee| 6.1.09 @ 11:43AM

Obviously, murder is wrong. Whether it is Dr. Tiller, murdered at the hand of some disturbed individual, or baby after baby murdered at the hand of Dr. Tiller, it is surely a travesty.
I would challenge anyone who is in favor of abortion to watch one as it is performed (particularly late-term), and see if they think the same way afterward.
Even our president, in the interview where he infamously said that deciding the point at which life begins is "above his pay-grade", also said that we should strive to reduce the number of abortions performed. Why? Why would he say that? If an unborn baby really is nothing more than a glob of cells, with no life of its own, why would we want to reduce the number of procedures? Why isn't it just like a rhinoplasty or liposuction? Hmmmm.....

MarkJ| 6.1.09 @ 11:48AM

Pro-Choice in MS,

"If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one. I don't believe in vanity breeding or adding to overpopulation, so I'm not having children. "

Well, I see you're in tune with Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes when he noted, "Three generations of imbeciles are enough."

Capisce, paisan? ;)

NavyBrat| 6.1.09 @ 11:50AM

"Bill O"Reilly also needs to face trial for inciting hate."

And tell us, Mr. Free Speech Opponent, WHAT exactly, did O'Reily do to put a gun in this man's hand? What subliminal messages did he send to this whackjob to get him to commit this act? Like I said above, idiots like you find it convenient to blame someone who espouses views you don't like. Far be it from simpletons like you to place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the perpetrator. I'm sure that if someone raped your wife or daughter, you wouldn't say that they did it because of rap music, violent movies, etc. Why is this any different? It's MURDER, & it's the fault of the perpetrator... NO ONE ELSE'S!

Anneke| 6.1.09 @ 11:55AM

"Anyway, call me a crazy, kookie, conspiracy theorist, but this seems just too perfect."

That was my first thought, too. Either the Obama Administration is looking for a way to smear pro-lifers and conservatives. I'm sure someone is going to point at Janet Napolitano's now famous DHS report on homegrown terrorists (e.g., psycho vets, gun owners and pro-lifers) and say "see, we told you so." Or, the Administrations is trying to find a bogeyman. This will be a convenient distraction to our economic problems and international crises such as North Korea and Iran.

renee| 6.1.09 @ 11:57AM

Gee, Michael... inciting a little hate of the right-wingers? Should you be put on trial?

The Real Royal King| 6.1.09 @ 12:00PM

I am sure O'Reilly will fully exonerate himself tonight, as he always does when he is involved in a misdeed of any sort. We well know that many of those opposed to a woman's right to chose are radical and unstable. Surely, when you shamelessly pander to these people, you bear some responsibility.

Oldefarte| 6.1.09 @ 12:02PM

O'Reilly practices what the looney left refers to as FREE SPEECH, which at least is intelligent and articulate; dissimilar to that moron Olbermann on MSNBC who nightly spews his vile distorted BS concerning any Republican! I only hope that the authorities apprehend, charge and convict the murderer responsible. We have in this country something called LAWS, and anyone is permitted to exercise their free speech, assuming it's in a legal manner. There is a remote possibility that an extremist liberal is responsible for his murder, wanting to ramp up a public bias against conservatives in the upcoming Supreme Court nomination battle; so the looney left should not open their mouths too wide on this issue, as they may end up with their size 12 foot inside same!!!!!!

Basil Plumley| 6.1.09 @ 12:04PM

It is not terrorism. It is pre-meditated murder.

Acts like this marginalize the Pro-Life Movement. Just like that person who killed the abortion doctor in Buffalo thought he was doing God's Work, this person was operating under the same delusion. These folks don't realize there is a big difference between righteous and self-righteous.

I subscribe to the words of St. Paul who admonished folks from committing evil acts in the name of our Lord.

Grzmlyk| 6.1.09 @ 12:04PM

Nice, Mark J. :-)

Aside from the fact that absolutely every abortion proponent thanks whatever god they pray to that THEIR mother didn't blithely exercise her right of "choice" when it came to THEM, is the very real trauma that many, many women face after undergoing the procedure. For the most part, they don't walk out doing cartwheels, and they don't mark the day every year with little celebrations.

It is not just another form of birth control; it is not just a choice (should I get the red dishwasher or the white one?); it is not an empowering rite of feminism. It is a brutal act - and I defy any pro-abortion fan to say it's not.

Oldefarte| 6.1.09 @ 12:11PM

PS----Obama's personal commentary either today or yesterday on Tiller's murder is the absolutely first occasion that I recall of ANY president acknowledging a LOCAL/SOLITARY murder of an individual. Sure presidents comment on mass-type murders [ie Columbine HS,etc], but never before on a singular case of murder [this just shows his extreme liberal political partisanship has no bounds or civility]. If a conservative Republican minister would have been murdered, you would have never heard a word from Obama!!!!!!

eileen| 6.1.09 @ 12:11PM

unfortunately the swaggering oreilly can influence stupid people around the country just by changing his pose in his chair, indicating that some good "advice" is on the way.
disgusting oreilly deserves to be castigated for his role in pushing unstable people over the edge
knows exactly what he is doing to get his dreams to come true

Old Texican| 6.1.09 @ 12:35PM

I do want to clarify my earlier post.
Bill Oreilly may have prevented an untold number of murders between 2005 and last week, by making parents and loved ones more aware of the options their girl or boy might have other than abortion.

Sean| 6.1.09 @ 12:42PM

Seems like this Tiller embryo has been aborted. I think we should legalize this type of abortion.

JB Houston| 6.1.09 @ 12:43PM

I am not a conspiracy type, but I have always been suspicious of these Chicago thug style politics.

There are too many creepy soft tyrannical philosophies coming out of this Obama administration.

From the idea of fairness doctrine, dropping charges against "New Black Panthers, "brownshirts", Acorn, union thugs, far left appointments, Rahm E. statement "never waste a good crisis" and Janet N. statement about "home grown" terroirsts.

It appears that there is motive to incite some sort of crisis to then inact some sort of leftist policy.

Things like the second admenment, conservative free speech, and capitalism seem to be obstacles for this adminstration's policy agenda.

NavyBrat| 6.1.09 @ 12:58PM

"disgusting oreilly deserves to be castigated for his role in pushing unstable people over the edge"

If you think that, then we should shut down Daily Kos & Flushington Post, as they have quite obviously driven YOU over the edge. As is evidenced by your firmly held conviction that O'Reily should be held accountable for the actions of a psycho. I can see why you, in a way, are excusing the actions of the man who committed murder in the warped pursuit of his "vision." I guess is takes a whackjob to know one.

Your hypocrisy is revolting. You would defend the right of someone to burn a US flag, yet you would criticize O'Reily for speaking out against abortion, & in this case, INFANTICIDE. Even most pro choice people I know find this practice ABHORRENT. So tell us how, by voicing his opinion on the matter, which is held by a great many others in this country, O'Reily is inciting hate or "driving people over the edge?" If that's the case, then one could say that apologists for infanticide, such as the Eugenics...I mean HEALTH & Human Services Sec., & good friend of the murdered doctor, Kathleen Sebilius. Or Idiots like you. Maybe he wasn't driven over the edge by O'Reily, but by fools like you & her who don't have problems with infanticide & made excuses for it. Sounds as reasonable as your warped argument.

Old Texican| 6.1.09 @ 1:02PM

Navy Brat...Heh! What you just said...ditto!

Ellis Wyatt| 6.1.09 @ 1:04PM

I don't recall ever hearing Bill O'Reilly say that doctors, even those that commit such a heinous act as abortion, should be killed. Unless someone can show me evidence that he told this nut to commit murder then this is a moot argument. I am sure some left wing loons will try and make such a statement, but that is only an attempt by the "tolerant" left to try and shut up a man who speaks so effectively against their radical values. So, play me the tape or spare me the childish argument against the first amendment.

CHITOWN99| 6.1.09 @ 1:18PM

I think the main point lost here is that Pro-Life people ARE somewhat happy that this man was eliminated. They think that Jesus wants one man killed to save thousands if not millions. the problem is, this man aborted fetuses that were HORRIBLY deformed. I am Pro-Choice and Liberal, yet I too am disgusted by the irresponsibility of people and the use of abortion as a lazy birth control. Dr. Tiller had nothing to do with these types of abortions. He dealt with late term abortion for the fact of helping people who had learned late that their child that they WANTED was going to be severely deformed. These were not going to be pillars of society, they were going to live a very painful and isolated life. Yes this a cold way of thinking, but just as the death penalty is a cold thought process so is sparing a child a horrible existence. Why has the Pro-Life people not set up a foundation to take care of all these deformed children? Pro-Choice people have to police themselves and stop using abortion as birth control and Pro-Life needs to allow people to live their lives the way they want or set up an organization to take care of the children they so desperately want inhabiting this earth.

GLEVY| 6.1.09 @ 1:24PM

Hey Grzmlyk....I am far from a liberal but i am sorry to say that your comments and arguments are so far beyond igonorant and stubborn that I am at a loss to comment. I dont know where to begin how about your last igonrace fueled statement that abortion is a brutal act. Since you "defy me" to state that it's not. Explain to me why abortion IS in fact a brutal act? Since the definition of life at that stage is utterly a matter of opinion! That is not something you can argue as fact only as opinion. Therefore in MY opinion abortion isnt the taking of a life because I beleive life is created through experience and not conception.

So since highly debatable definition proves that in my eyes an abortion is the same as setting a bone, open heart surgery, or perscribing say Prozac. it is far from a brutal act.

There is no amount of fact, evidence, or logic that any of you religious right winger can ever even begin to use, to convince me that conception is the work of a "god" and that an uborn fetus's life is in any way similar to a fully born child or adult.

Ok so since you have NO proof of God or any religious validity, NO proof that life begins at conception then hmmmm...i guess I just defied you! Ooops!

GLEVY| 6.1.09 @ 1:32PM

oh and NavyBrat....you are absolutely right that if you defend any form of free speech including flag burning, that you would be very hyprocritical in condemming O'Reilley's comments. But you raise a very VERY important pro-choice issue.

Free-Speech! We have it and it is important because people have different opinions! I do not think what Dr. Tillman was doing was infanticide, you do. These are opinions and they are both valid to us respectively.

There are plenty of laws in this country that i do not agree with and that i feel harm a great many people, however i would never EVER attempt to force my beliefs upon other people.

What "pro-life" advocates simply can't come to terms with is that legalized abortion will never HURT THEM!!!!! What you guys jsut don't understand is that you are trying to force your opinions on others. In this case with a crowbar.

its unfair, fascist, barbaric, and mostly...unamerican.

NavyBrat| 6.1.09 @ 1:42PM

"I think the main point lost here is that Pro-Life people ARE somewhat happy that this man was eliminated."

So? That doesn't mean that we don't want to see justice for Dr. Tiller's family. I'm not shedding any tears at his murder, but believe you me, if I were sitting on that jury, I'd make sure this murdering nutcase got what was coming to him. I'm not upset about the victim or the reason for the crime. I'm upset about the crime. Just like I"m not upset when I hear that some schmuck got his arse shot off after trying to rob a pharmacy at gunpoint.

"I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure."...Clarence Darrow

"I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it."...Mark Twain

"A son of a b*tch is a son of a b*tch, & just because they're dead, doesn't make them any less of one."...My Grandfather

Words of wisdom.

PS. Oh, & we really don't need lessons on whether or not to rejoice or make fun of Dr. Tiller's death from the crowd who partied in the streets upon hearing of Tony Snow's death. Spare us your self righteous & FAKE indignation.

Dan| 6.1.09 @ 1:46PM

In a world where there is no objective truth, where truth is subjective and the world is a place where opposing narratives battle for dominance, -------------- in such a world all of us are able to ask what is the definition of murder.

Beforetimes, the "Doctor" would have been understood by one and all, to be nothing but a mass-murderer who was making a killing, -------- and laughing all the way to the bank.

But now "murder" is attached to one who acted in the absence of legitimate authority acting. When the state fails to act, ----------------- what then becomes the duty of the citizen?

And before you answer that question, before some run off with partisan passion, consider for a moment Jefferson's considered take on the matter in our founding document, the Declaration of Independence.

From whence does the state derive her powers?

The consent of the governed, ----------- yes, but that answer is incomplete.

The state exists for one purpose, to protect and preserve the life, liberty and property interests of her citizens. Power exercised beyond that ceases to be lawful power, and instead becomes the political WILL of a faction seeking to impose its agenda on all others.

Which is where we're at now.

What is permitted, what is lawful, what is sanctioned, what is culturally normed, is now whatever the prevailing narrative is. And how is that prevailing narrative determined, by a vast political battle, where each side no longer tries to justify their claims by hearkening to truth, to distilled wisdom of the ages, to common sense and human experience, now it's all about sound bites, lies, agitation, agitprop, threats and coercion.

In a world of political correctness good faith argument died a painful death.

Which leaves self help.

This guy who whacked the mass-murder resorted to self-help, and he acted in the face of repeated failure of lawful authority to act.

This is where we're all heading.

And Obama's team knows it more than any of us. Which is why they're trying to float some domestic force equal in power and strength to our armed forces, but capable of acting domestically. They know full well what agenda they're going to ram down our throats.

And they anticipate resistance.

fred| 6.1.09 @ 1:47PM

Grzmlyk ... your "expanded definition of abortion" puts you on an FBI watch list. Law enforcement enjoys reading these posts just as much as you do. Now go on and bask in the added attention you so crave.

Attila the Hen| 6.1.09 @ 1:48PM

I beleive life is created through experience and not conception.

Well you would be wrong unless YOU can specify the joining of one experience to another experience that created a life, you nit. Did you even think about what you wrote? Who determines which experiences create life anyway - you? That means for example, that YOU could decide that a 9-month-old human that only eats, sleeps, pees and poops hasn't experienced anything (in your estimation) and therefore isn't a viable life! Late term abortion cannot be and is not even compared to something as mundane as writing a prescription, even by those who perform the procedure. If you don't understand or know what is involved in a late term abortion with a VIABLE human fetus (that means it could sustain life OUTSIDE the mother's womb), then perhaps you should shut your pie hole and stop calling others ignorant, when you obviously are incapable of even spelling the word (among many others)!

Old Texican| 6.1.09 @ 2:01PM

Glevy, that is the silliest post I have ever read on the Spectator, except of course the cut and paste rants by Jew haters.
If not Judeo-Christian values...basics if you will...WHY should I not track YOU down and shoot your arse? Just for entertainment?
Why not?
The Law?
You don't respect the laws in our Constitution, since they were established by God fearing men.

So where ARE your vaunted "values"? OK how about if I don't murder you...but just blow your legs off at the knees with my shotgun?

I didn't commit murder...so no harm no foul unless my own personal set of ethics forbids it, right?
OK, How about if I only blow off your reproductive capacity...or gently clip your tubes?

Where is your so-called "ethical stance" there?

OK let's get even more ridiculous. How about if I behead you...for any of a number of things Moslems hold dear?
The argument gets stupid doesn't it?

You have no basis in ethics.....NONE!
(Uh.....except the constitution and the rule of law that God fearing men wrote.)

Charles Martel| 6.1.09 @ 2:02PM

Crusader, no kidding: what shocked me most about the incident yesterday was that Tiller was a Lutheran. ELCA, of course. It's really sad what's become of the denomination I grew up in: so weak, so emblematic of the age in which we live.

Nevertheless, it remains illegal in all fifty states and DC to kill even a mass murderer.

I wonder whether at his funeral the slightest morsel of shame will be seen at how the mass murderer earned a living. I wonder whether it will instead be turned into some sort of Wellstone-esque orgy of indignation.

I further wonder whether HHS Secretary Sebellius will attend. Surely she cannot be so callous and ungrateful as to spurn him now that he's dead. She must be seen to show solidarity with her sisters in the cause, Tiller's surviving patients. A simple statement from a safe distance is unacceptable: she has "skin in the game".

+++

CHITOWN99| 6.1.09 @ 2:07PM

Well Navy Brat, you and your Grandfather seem to have no problem with death. I guess that is a part of the military that is learned. The problem is we are trying to evolve as a species towards a greater understanding of life. I understand you do not believe in evolution, you only believe in Sarah Palin. Nonetheless we are trying to move toward a society that does not want war, does not want to kill, does not want to harm.
How can you be upset with an action and not about a human being that died. You sincerely can see no redeeming qualities in this man? You in no way can look at the situation from the other side at all? That is extraordinarily scary considering you are in the Military. This man was trying to help people, he was not "Killing Babies" for some sick pleasure. If you research the man, you will see he refused to do this at first. He only started doing these after a original denied patient died.

P.S.
I understand you are ignorant and thus only watch Faux News, but most people were not Partying in the streets over Tony Snow's Death. Not a fraction as many as are cheering George Tiller's death. You are ignorant and you are wrong.

Old Texican| 6.1.09 @ 2:08PM

DAN! Splendid post! May I quote you, as it bears repeating?

Dan| 6.1.09 @ 1:46PM
In a world where there is no objective truth, where truth is subjective and the world is a place where opposing narratives battle for dominance, -------------- in such a world all of us are able to ask what is the definition of murder.

Beforetimes, the "Doctor" would have been understood by one and all, to be nothing but a mass-murderer who was making a killing, -------- and laughing all the way to the bank.

But now "murder" is attached to one who acted in the absence of legitimate authority acting. When the state fails to act, ----------------- what then becomes the duty of the citizen?

And before you answer that question, before some run off with partisan passion, consider for a moment Jefferson's considered take on the matter in our founding document, the Declaration of Independence.

From whence does the state derive her powers?

The consent of the governed, ----------- yes, but that answer is incomplete.

The state exists for one purpose, to protect and preserve the life, liberty and property interests of her citizens. Power exercised beyond that ceases to be lawful power, and instead becomes the political WILL of a faction seeking to impose its agenda on all others.

Which is where we're at now.

What is permitted, what is lawful, what is sanctioned, what is culturally normed, is now whatever the prevailing narrative is. And how is that prevailing narrative determined, by a vast political battle, where each side no longer tries to justify their claims by hearkening to truth, to distilled wisdom of the ages, to common sense and human experience, now it's all about sound bites, lies, agitation, agitprop, threats and coercion.

In a world of political correctness good faith argument died a painful death.

Which leaves self help.

This guy who whacked the mass-murder resorted to self-help, and he acted in the face of repeated failure of lawful authority to act.

This is where we're all heading.

And Obama's team knows it more than any of us. Which is why they're trying to float some domestic force equal in power and strength to our armed forces, but capable of acting domestically. They know full well what agenda they're going to ram down our throats.

And they anticipate resistance.

(I was expressing some of the same stuff , but not nearly as eloquent as your post. Thank you.)

Anneke| 6.1.09 @ 2:09PM

Just saw this headline over at Fox News: "A gunman opened fire Monday at an army recruitment center in Little Rock, Ark., killing one army recruiter and seriously wounding another, FOX16.com reported."

Let's see if the level of outrage over the killing of TWO military recruiters exceeds the level of outrage over the death of one abortion doctor. Somehow, I doubt it will.

NavyBrat| 6.1.09 @ 2:10PM

Glevy. Well, I'm glad that at least one member of the opposition posting here is civil. As I stated earlier, there are other issues I feel more strongly about than abortion, with the exception of this late term monstrosity. However, there is, in my mind, a slippery slope between what some would call "choice" here in America & what is par for the course in countries like China, who restrict population due to the economic concerns of the state. The more government we have in this country, the closer this is to becoming a reality here. I'm not saying tomorrow, hell, I'm not even saying it'll happen before I die. It's just not that far a stretch of my imagination to see it coming to pass in my children or grandkid's lifetime (I have neither yet, thank G*d).

I feel that abortion as birth control is wrong. I also know that everyone screws up in life. I sure did (although I didn't knock anyone up). Everyone is allowed one screwup, in my humble opinion. After that, it's off to the adoption agency for you. Of course, the usual stipulations apply in this case, such as exceptions for cases of rape or incest. This late term crap, however, is an abomination to modern society. To engage in this practice is to put us on the level of Sparta. Now, I KNOW for a fact that certain liberal types (not you, Glevy) like to brag about how much more advanced & civilized our society is than it used to be. So what's the justification for engaging in a practice that is one of the biggest blights on the history of an otherwise great city state? It's not like we're taking boy away from their moms at 8 years old to engage in military training that, more often than not, resulted in their deaths. Disgusting as it is to us, at least the Spartans had a legit reason to do things like that. What's OUR excuse? We have NONE.

NavyBrat| 6.1.09 @ 2:19PM

Oh, gee Chitown. You know me SO well. And you're SO much more intellectually SUPERIOR than the cretins in the military. First off, I believe, like Darwin did, that G*d made the miracle of evolution possible. So your WRONG there. Also, given you self inflated idea of your own brilliance failed you in another aspect to your idiotic comment, a service brat is/was the child of someone in the military. The only thing that kept me from serving was the removal of my colon at 14. Do you have any more erroneous assumptions about me or my family, or did I clear them all up for you? Idiot.

Tim| 6.1.09 @ 2:20PM

Weren't we treated to a movie about George Bush 43's assasination just a few years ago? Wasn't that "art" and "free speech" ?
Isn't Bill O'Reilly entitled to have and opinion and present it? Aren't I?

Scarlett| 6.1.09 @ 2:20PM

Thank God Pro-Choice in MS is not having any children. There is hope for a future after all.

Veronica| 6.1.09 @ 2:26PM

CHITOWN, you're a liar. Tiller aborted any baby up to term (9 months), including healthy ones. The only requirement was a cool $5,000.oo for the good Doctor. Stop spreading your lying propaganda.

Christine| 6.1.09 @ 2:26PM

I also suspect this murder was planned and carried out as a black ops by the pro abortion brigades. The American public for the first time in years had turned against abortion in the majority, and Napolitano was laughed back into the closet with her 'conservative Christian prolifers as terrorists' theme. Now, Tiller is dead, and the rabied left wants all prolifers jailed and O'Reilly off the air and in jail.

How convenient. Please remember that when Adolph Hitler wanted to gain more power, and turn the tide against his critics, he staged a violent assault against the Reichstag Hall which he then blamed on his opposition. He was not alone in this, for this tactic is frequently practiced by leftists, communists, and other terrorists in order to win the propaganda battle.

I am betting Tiller was sacrificed by the left; there is already another doctor seeking to take over his lucrative ($5000 per abortion) practice. With Tiller's recent legal scrapes, he was expendable; being indicted for illegal abortions at his clinic was damaging the cause, so he had to go in order to turn his sorry image into that of a sainted martyr. He was killed by his own because they knew they could blame it on every american who ever spoke to try to save a baby and crush the pro life movement. His blood is on his own head.

NavyBrat| 6.1.09 @ 2:28PM

"Nonetheless we are trying to move toward a society that does not want war, does not want to kill, does not want to harm."

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!! Why don't you go try pitching that fart in the gale that is Saudi Arabia, Iran, North Korea, or Darfur. Let me know how it works for you. Hopefully, you can get the word out your noble cause before you're shot or hung.

"Kum-by-yah my Lord, Kum-by-yah." Christ, you people are just plain naive. Please though. Keep telling us about this supposed "evolution" of the human race into all compassionate non hating beings. If nothing else, it IS funny to watch idiots like you flail about aimlessly in your lame attempts to bring about this impossible fantasy you possess.

ds80| 6.1.09 @ 2:29PM

Guilty: George Tiller's murderer.
Guilty: George Tiller the abortionist.
Innocent: George Tiller's victims.

"Pro-choice in MS": advocating for "choice" is like advocating for the earth to rotate: everyone already has choice. What you advocate is acceptance of the free-will choice of an intrinsically evil act.

NavyBrat| 6.1.09 @ 2:30PM

"...word out your noble..."

Sorry, "...word out ABOUT your noble..."

Daisy| 6.1.09 @ 2:30PM

CHITOWN, the MAIN point is that pro-life people are happy that Tiller is dead? Oh, really, how do you know? Does your tinfoil hat receive our thought transmissions, too? What an idiot.

ds80| 6.1.09 @ 2:34PM

GLEVY: "I do not think what Dr. Tillman was doing was infanticide"

Note to GLEVY: there is a God, and he isn't you. You may want to bone up on that meeting with your Maker.

ds80| 6.1.09 @ 2:41PM

The reactionary, agenda-driven anti-LIFE crowd (see synonyms at "CHITOWN" ) confuses "happy that Tiller won't be able to murder anymore" with "happy that Tiller was murdered".

Angel| 6.1.09 @ 2:41PM

GLEVY, you define stupidity down. Tiller aborted VIABLE babies. Have any idea what VIABLE means? It means that these babies could've survived on their own if Tiller hadn't crushed their skulls and then torn their bodies from their mothers' wombs.

These babies are given nothing for pain--can you even imagine their agony? And, I'm sure, you are outraged that we water-boarded THREE mass murdering terrorists.

We are living in crazy times, everything is ass backwards and upside down. How dare you defend Dr. Tiller's barbarism.

I decry violence, including the murder of Dr. Tiller, but I will never defend this man's actions.

Old Texican| 6.1.09 @ 2:42PM

Chitown...you are full of Ka Ka!
babies have no guilt, and they have no voice or sins against any of us.
Martel:
Oh you are so very wrong!
The second amendment truly means that every free person has not only the right...but the obligation...and preserves the ABILITY... to STOP mass murderors.
Yes, that person in turn must accept judgement by men, but the whole idea of "citizen's arrest" is still alive here in Texas.
Maybe the nutjob who shot the fiiiiiine doctor asked him to come along peacefully...and maybe the fine doctor refused.....
Hmmmmm, that is for twelve jurors to decide.
Maybe the nutjob had bad parents or a sub-optimal upbringing and so is "not really responsible"
What right do your ilk have imposing YOUR ethics on anyone else?

Erick| 6.1.09 @ 2:46PM

Really this is not so complicated. What goes around comes around. This Tiller idiot was one arrogant SOB and got what he deserved.

Old Texican| 6.1.09 @ 2:51PM

Erick!
(CHUCKLE)
A whackjob shot a wackjob. See my post above.

glevy| 6.1.09 @ 2:53PM

Old Texican...i find it hilarious that you called my post the silliest you have ever seen and then follow it up with pure insanity and lies and well...silliness.

FYI our founding fathers where NOT god fearing christians. They where Desists! They made it a point to not mention christianity anywhere in our constitution!

And your view that religions needs to dictate morality is a very VERY scary thaught! Religion DID dictate morality for about 5000 years...and guess what....that is a world none of us would want to live with because of all the horrors that humans commited on others.

I am sorry that i am not so weak minded that i need a fake human created "god" to tell me what is right and what is wrong.

The fatal flaw in your silly arguments is that you shooting me in the kneecaps is morally wrong because you are hurting someone other than yourself directly. And as our founding fathers clearly felt....the state's sole purpose is protecting the populous. Therefore you should be arrested for hurting ME.

A doctor who performs an abortion is not hurting YOU and could never hurt YOU, so then why are you so ferverent in taking his and millions of others peoples rights away?

The right to shoot someone in the kneecaps and behead them (your genious examples) should not be allowed because then everyone in this country would be at risk.

Abortion (even if you think it is in facrt killing) cannot live by those rules because it will never have the ability to harm any citizines that already exist.

Very simple! Sorry

Roy| 6.1.09 @ 2:56PM

Crusader: That conspiracy theory has occurred to me too. But I'll wait and see.

Certainly, any of these whackjobs who think they are doing any good need to have their heads examined. I have been in more dedicated abortion debates before - and the "pro-choice" side never actually uses rational argument. What they do, instead, is engage in endless ad hominem ranting against Christians. I heard more about the 0.00001% of people who object to our abortion laws that had committed violence than all the "substantive" pro-abortion arguments put together.

glevy| 6.1.09 @ 2:57PM

ANGEL....no sorry Dr. Tiller has never harmed a baby in his life because i do not beleive that you are a baby until you are born. This isnt stupididity this is opinion. I do not think your views are stupid either! I just do not agree with them.

You are perfectly entitled to your opinions as am i. Because of this....you are NOT entitled to take Dr. Tillers or the women who asked him for help....rights away.

oh and ds80.....sorry....no god. Since there is no proof....also an opinion!

No Tears Here| 6.1.09 @ 3:09PM

Here's an idea: Don't want a child? Be pro-choice. Proactively choose birth control. As far as the "Dr.", live by the sword, die by the sword.

smokehouse| 6.1.09 @ 3:10PM

How can you liberal slobs condone abortion? YOU are the real killers, not Bill O'Reilly. Too bad you cretins were not "aborted" before your were hatched under a rock. Stinking liberals.

NavyBrat| 6.1.09 @ 3:12PM

"You sincerely can see no redeeming qualities in this man?"...Chyte-Town

No, I can't. Any more than I saw redeeming qualities in Mengele or any of the other eugenecists (like Tiller) who were at the heart of the racial purity message of the Third Reich. Any more than I can see the redeeming qualities of this piece of trash (Roeder) who would walk into a house of G*d to do his warped version of "G*d's work." See, in MY eyes, ALL of them are equally worthless.

These anti abortion nutjobs like Roeder, who "kill in the name of G*d are no better than the jihadi arseholes who recruit people to send their downs syndrome kids to be suicide bombers & martyrs for Allah. So no. I excuse NEITHER man for their actions. Tiller will face G*d for his crimes. Roeder will face man's justice, & hopefully, it will be an appropriate sentence for a cold blooded murderer. Like the needle. See, I'm an equal opportunity hater. I hate all murderers.

People who have been in uniform, or have been AROUND people in uniform (as I have), know that war is different. People expect what comes with war. That's why we have a volunteer military these days. Everyone knows the objective, which is to kill the enemy. What did these FULL TERM babies do, except become an inconvenience to the mothers carrying them? What did Dr. Tiller do, other than go to church on a Sunday?

Both Tiller & his murderer have much to answer for. It's just that the murderer will have excuses made for him, as is the case with this O'Reily brew-ha-ha, in an effort to make the victim a martyr for the infanticide proponents. Nice to see the leftist thread of equivocating murder continuing itself. If nothing, you people ARE consistent. Consistently STUPID!

Crusader| 6.1.09 @ 3:18PM

I am going to hang my shingle in the place of the "good doctor" Tiller. I will begin to perform late-term abortions. Only caveat:

- Must be a libtard
- By "late-term" I am talking 18 years old or older.
- My fee, unlike the "good doctor" Tiller's $5,000, will be a mere $501. ($500 for the abortion and $1 for the round of ammo I'll use). Just 10% of what ol' Doc Killer, er I mean Tiller charged.

On a serious side note: Dan, great post!

On a 2nd serious side note: How many shootings we gonna have in the Age of Obama? I know he and ol' Eric "hey at least I paid my taxes" Holder want to ban guns, but man! With the recruitment center shooting, what are we up to since the inauguration, 6, 8? I mean, slow down a bit fellas!!!

glevy| 6.1.09 @ 3:31PM

Crusader...funny your screenname is an homage to one of the most embaressing and horrific failures in the shitory of Chrisitianity, that many argue has cause the rifts that we experience with other religions today....most specifically.

Ahh the crusades....follow us or die hahahaha and who exactly is the libtard???

The funny thing is that i am far from liberal and dont agree with third term abortions...however I actually come from a country where rights where taken away and truly appreciate what this amazing country provides.

its sick feeble minded individuals who do not appreciate this glrogious country and wish to take people rights away based on their own fears and opinions!

NavyBrat| 6.1.09 @ 3:32PM

Glevy. While you have been civil to me & we've agreed to disagree, I'm gonna have to throw a BS card on this statement:

"FYI our founding fathers where NOT god fearing christians. They where Desists!"

Allow me to elaborate:

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians, not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ."...Patrick Henry

"Twenty times in the course of my late reading I have been on the point of breaking out, 'This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!!!' But in this exclamation I would have been as fanatical as Bryant or Cleverly. Without religion this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company, I mean hell."...John Adams

It's easy to think they weren't Christians, due to their inherent distrust of the Church of England, however, that assumption is wrong. The church, at that time, was the center of social & political life. Many of the Founders were ministers, as was the case with Patrick Henry.

CHITOWN99| 6.1.09 @ 3:32PM

First of all NavyBrat, so the fact that you have no Colon does in fact mean you are by definition full of SH*T!!?!?!?
Why did you have to post so many times about my post? Does it take conservatives that long to think? I guess so, the gene pool is getting shallow, no?

fact: At one time these were fantasies -
Civil rights for African Americans
Flight
Womens right to Vote
Internal Combustion engine
Telephone
Electricity
Freedom

Guess what NavyBrat? When you use that thing three feet above your ass you can accomplish things that are thought to be impossible!!! just because their are barbaric people in the world does not mean you need to be barbaric. You conservatives really are the dumbest species on this earth. Thank God, with every generation a few less are born and many, many more die off!! Good riddance to your ignorance and arrogance!!!

Jack Bauer| 6.1.09 @ 3:40PM

THE MILITARY RECRUIMENT DEBATE TURNS DEADLY. LEFTWING EXTREMISTS TO BLAME?

After a relentless campaign of demonization of the military, including regular attacks on ROTC on campus, the debate turned even deadlier today when two Army recruiters were shot. One officer tragically died in hospital.

Given the routine vitriol from Leftist Fundamentalists against the military, one has to ask did they whip up the atmosphere which allowed such a violent act?

How much culpability can one hold against extreme left-wing hate sites like the Daily Kos and Demonic Undertground.

Given the violently anti-military nature of many College Professors, and their Insititutionally Leftists agenda which portray military personnel in unflattering terms, one has to ask did they vause the murder today?

What is Code Pinks involvment in today's murderous tragedy?

I call upon President Obama to make an urgent statement condemning this cowardly act, and for Attornry General Eric Holder to post US Marshalls at recruiment Centers to nip this left-wing terrorism in the bud.

http://www.postchronicle.com/news/original/article_212234409.shtml

AR Army Recruiting Center Shooting: One Killed, Bomb Squad Called
by Mitch Marconi

A shooting has taken place at an Army Recruiting Center in Little Rock, Arkansas, and one fatality has been confirmed.

One officer has been killed and another wounded after a man drove by an Army Recruiting Center in Little Rock, Arkansas, shooting two guarding officers.

Both officers were wounded and hospitalized immediately as police pursued the suspect. It has now been confirmed that one officer has died as a result of his injury.

The suspect has been taken into custody and police seized his rifle - but the bomb squad was called after officials found a suspicious device in the suspect's vehicle.

NavyBrat| 6.1.09 @ 3:46PM

"First of all NavyBrat, so the fact that you have no Colon does in fact mean you are by definition full of SH*T!!?!?!?"

Wow, Chyte-Town. Nice to see that you can debate with the same sense of "greater understanding of life" that you profess to want to bring to the world. So tolerant of other views, you people. Why is it that Glevy can be civil but you can't? Know what that makes you? Yet another stooge in the eternal line of liberal fascist hypocrites. Funny that out of all the posts that you've chosen to make fun of, the only thing you could focus on was the fact that I said I had an ostomy. Bet you're the smartest person in your 5th grade class, given the potency of that remark. I also see that you're not in any hurry to adress my statement concerning you taking your "peace & love" tour to the middle east & other owrld garden spots. You get those people to fall in line with that, THEN come back & lecture your own countrymen.

NavyBrat| 6.1.09 @ 3:52PM

Jack Bauer. Thanks for posting that piece. I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY!!! I say we try Harry Screed, (then Senator) Obama, John Jabba the Hut Murtha, Botox Pelosi & John the Traitor Kerry for inciting hate against the military. It makes about as much sense as trying O'Reily for influencing this whackjob in Kansas.

glevy| 6.1.09 @ 3:58PM

NavyBrat....I never implied that the founding fathers werent Christians. Let me elaborate. For their time, they where very VERY liberal when it came to religion. Yes they certainly where Christian, ettended church, and compared to most of today would be considered fairly religious. But for those times, they all understood that problems that mixing god and civics can and did cause.

Many people in this country beleive that this country was founded to be a chrisitian country when in fact it was founded to allow people to practice whatever religions they saw fit and to eliminate chrisitianity or any other religion from dictating civil laws.

Once again....none of this is fact and all is open to debate.

Also, i agree that it is quite silly to get angry over these typoes of disucssions. All it shows is that you have no convictions and that you need to resort to tantrum throwing and intimidation to prove a point.

And last but not least....i am not a liberal haha. I think that it is silly to chategorize your entire belief system beased on one of two profiles. Its impossible!

I would consider myself financially extremely conservative and socially moderatly liberal. On other issues such as foreign policy, immigration, etc I tend to lean much more towards the conservative side.

oh yeah...its also very silly and simple-minded to dislike someone because of their opinions :)

Angel| 6.1.09 @ 3:58PM

Good thing Glevy has settled the issue of person hood. You would have made a great slave-owner, libtard. Who are you to decide that a baby is not a person until it's born? God? Shame on you for your callous disregard for the innocent. Your arrogance is only superseded by your stupidity.

Nittany| 6.1.09 @ 4:01PM

Chitown99- "civil rights for African Americans" was helped along by murderous John Brown at Harper's Ferry if I recall correctly- civil rights for unborn children is today's fantasy- they deserve the freedom to live- like you.

WOCO74| 6.1.09 @ 4:08PM

No one approves of murder. One thing is for sure Dr. Tiller is now facing Almighty God for his deeds. One day, America will be judged for its approval of abortions. Laugh while you can.

Old Texican| 6.1.09 @ 4:11PM

I do so enjoy quoting myself...heh!

""Glevy, that is the silliest post I have ever read on the Spectator, except of course the cut and paste rants by Jew haters.
If not Judeo-Christian values...basics if you will...WHY should I not track YOU down and shoot your arse? Just for entertainment?
Why not?
The Law?
You don't respect the laws in our Constitution, since they were established by God fearing men.

So where ARE your vaunted "values"? OK how about if I don't murder you...but just blow your legs off at the knees with my shotgun?

I didn't commit murder...so no harm no foul unless my own personal set of ethics forbids it, right?
OK, How about if I only blow off your reproductive capacity...or gently clip your tubes?

Where is your so-called "ethical stance" there?

OK let's get even more ridiculous. How about if I behead you...for any of a number of things Moslems hold dear?
The argument gets stupid doesn't it?

You have no basis in ethics.....NONE!
(Uh.....except the constitution and the rule of law that God fearing men wrote.) ""

BYE THE WAY, GLEVY:
You dodged my question didn't you? wimp!

Where DO you get your ethics?

Those "Deists" were a tiny minority of our founders, (and just dare me to prove you STUPIDWRONG HEH!)
Nevertheless...even "deists" were God fearing men. Read their own words, idiot, if you can even name their names as I can.
No.
You won't...and can't...or you are too lazy to go beyond what you have heard from your Godless mentors.
No...you will squawk here...and never ...ever go to the effort to support your mis-information...here.
Nah, you are just another communist in sheep's clothing quoting your "leaders". (How else does one really spell mein fueher?.....in English?)
...heh...shut up or begin watching over your shoulder! That is what your crowd is saying.
Well, that is what 200 million Americans are now saying to you murderers.
You guys own the government these days...yep!
I'm on yet another list...yep!
Hey, jerk...do you still labor under the impression that Mr. Obama gives an atheist-damn about YOUR knees? Heh! dumbbunny.

CHITOWN99| 6.1.09 @ 4:13PM

"Spare us your self righteous & FAKE indignation. "

I was civil Navybrat, you came at me first with that last line.

I expressed how there is two separate and equally important views on this subject. You decided to cast aspersions about me.

Let me get this right, it is ok to consider The President of the United States a Senator when he is a Democrat in time of war, but God help us all if you disagree with President Bush. you are branded a traitor. I have been to the middle east. I have been to Saudia Arabia and Isreal and Palestine. Im an intelligent researcher who is out there trying to spread what I believe.

But like I said, you are a dying breed. Every generation produces less and less conservatives. One day your family many genrations from now will bow there heads in shame for what you believe in.

P.S.
Nittany I completely agree with your argument, my point is figuring out whether they want to live a certain type of life or not. I sometimes have issues with teh fact that I have epilepsy. I could not imagine how people feel who have much more severe ailments and deformities. I understand your point, the discussion is about finding a common ground.

Jack Bauer| 6.1.09 @ 4:13PM

" Thank God, with every generation a few less are born and many, many more die off!! Good riddance to your ignorance and arrogance!!! "

Gosh what a hater.

As a matter of fact, given the well-documented Roe Effect, it is liberals who are aborted with a greater frequency that conservatives. So actually less liberals are born.

Also the numbers of people who consider themselves "conservative" has remained remarkably steady at around 62% for the past two decades.

The Real Royal King| 6.1.09 @ 4:15PM

How much longer for the Tony Snow lie? No one was rejoicing. He was rather universally admired. To be sure, his politics were troublesome, but he was an honest spokesman, unlike his predecessor or successor. Curiously, Brat, do you know where this lie began? Rush or Hannity?

Old Texican| 6.1.09 @ 4:16PM

Ooooooooooooooh! I just came up with a cool "non-curse-word" which I like...

What do you guys think?..."athiest Damn"?

Jack Bauer| 6.1.09 @ 4:16PM

Navy -- no probs sir!

Jack Baur| 6.1.09 @ 4:24PM

The Real Royal King| 6.1.09 @ 4:15PM

Oh gosh. You are kidding right?

Here's a few tasters of what the leftists sewers.. ed. Admittedly he was only gravely ill at this point, so I suppose one can forgive the raving foaming hatred.

Gotta admire the class of Leftist Fundamentalists.

HuffPo Commenters Wish Tony Snow Ill Upon Learning of Upcoming Surgery
By Ken Shepherd (Bio | Archive)
March 23, 2007 - 16:10 ET

On Monday, White House Press Secretary Tony Snow is set to undergo an operation. The Associated Press reports the surgery is to "remove a growth" in Snow's lower abdomen. Snow, you may recall, is a surviver of colon cancer.

Dean Barnett at TownHall.com noticed that outpouring of well wishes from Huffington Post commenters:

Naturally, the Huffington Post community weighs in with its own unique form of sympathy. A few samples:

- “Sure holding all that bulls**t in your gut would make anybody sick..!”

- “The growth in his abdomen is his head stuck up his a**. F**k him!! He is pure lying scum and should die ASAP!!”

- “You can only swallow so much............can you say karma.................”

Of course, some posters wished Snow well in that charming HuffPo way:

- “I’m sorry to hear about this for Tony, I hope it is all good news for the guy. Tony may be a BushCo whore but nobody deserves to have cancer, it’s a terrible desease that has caused far too much misery to my family and many, many more.”
Barnett also says he saved a screenshot to prove it "if and when this thread disappears down Arianna's memory hole."

Crusader| 6.1.09 @ 4:37PM

Glevy, just another reality and history denier. To libtards the Crusades started when some drunk Englishmen got a bug up their butt to go kill off some (cue violin music) noble, peace-loving, poor, poor misunderstood muslims.

Notwithstanding the 400+ years of muslim-inspired occupation of Christian lands and violence toward non-muslims leading up to the first Crusade (let's not talk about that).

Anyway libtard go try being a non-muslim in a muslim country. Effing dhimmi.

Abortionists. muslims, gayists...man those libtards keep company with some great folks.

I wonder if Tiller is going to get more mercy from God than he showed those babies he killed? Hopefully God goes all Old Testament on his murdering soul.

NavyBrat| 6.1.09 @ 4:39PM

"...The President of the United States a Senator when he is a Democrat in time of war,"

I said "then Senator" because he made those remarks when he was a senator. No other reason. Take it easy. I also didn't call anyone who disagreed with Bush a "traitor." I call John Kerry that because what he did upon his return was viewed by Vietnam vets like my Dad, & me, as traitorous. He readily joined the crowd that called the rest of the returning vets "babykillers." While I may have intensely disagreed with those who criticized Bush, I, unlike liberals who say we can't criticize Obama or his ill begotten policies, believe that it's the absolute right of everyone to criticize the government. So, no, I never bandied about the word "traitor." Yet another assumption on your part.

"One day your family many genrations from now will bow there heads in shame for what you believe in."

I highly doubt that. My ideology is the same as my parents, & THEIR parents (from Italy, Russia, Lithuania, & Poland). So will it be with MY kids, when I have them. Despite the best efforts of the public school to make them think what you so obviously want them to think. Although not Catholic, or even Christian, I'll make sure my kids are in a nice private school & out of the hands of the Bill Ayers acolytes in public education.

The Real Royal King| 6.1.09 @ 4:41PM

Come, come now. You can't very well judge "liberals" by the comments of kooky bloggers. Otherwise, you'd be saddled with the comments as sites like Gretawire and having to defend the claim that all Republicans are racist. Ever read Gretawire? Atrocious racial and personal attacks on President Obama and his family.

NavyBrat| 6.1.09 @ 4:49PM

Royal King. I think he was just putting to rest your assertion that the Tony Snow business was a "lie." The racial stuff I can do without, but the personal attacks? Hey, man, don't cry to us about that. Bush & his supporters withstood a torrent of bile ridden vitriol, so don't cry when the shoe's on the other foot. Turnabout is fair play, you know?

glevy| 6.1.09 @ 4:58PM

Hey Old Texican...I did answer your silyl question you weak minded fool. I dont NEED someone to dictate to me what ethics and morals are. They are implied! Any human with average intelligence shouldnt need a higher power to dictate to them what is ethical and what is not. It is only god fearing weak minded weaklings that need to be told what to do and how to act!

And ANGEL......the questions is who are YOU to decide what is a person and what isnt. You are no more an authority thatn I am. And since i do not beleive in the god that you do then neither is he.

It is an opinion. The sky is blue is a fact!

glevy| 6.1.09 @ 5:02PM

Hey CRUSDADER.....what exactly does "christian lands mean" hahahahahahaha

I didnt know that #1 Christian was a racial/ethnic/cultural denomination. As far as I know it is simply a religion.
#2 There is a major MAJOR difference in reoccupying land that was taken from you and killing people for not converting to your religion.

USMC4Defence| 6.1.09 @ 5:02PM

I'm getting really sick of religious nuts killing people and the apathetic weaklings that quietly support them globally. We need to bring our troops home and turn them on the religious right... no organization more than they threatens our liberty.

ds80| 6.1.09 @ 5:12PM

glevy: you'll have your conversion moment. Hopefully before your particular Judgement.

USMC4Defence: no comment from you about the anti-religious nuts who have killed 50 million since 1973? How about some consistency here?

Also, please explain "apathetic weaklings"

ds80| 6.1.09 @ 5:12PM

glevy: you'll have your conversion moment. Hopefully before your particular Judgement.

USMC4Defence: no comment from you about the anti-religious nuts who have killed 50 million since 1973? How about some consistency here?

Also, please explain "apathetic weaklings"

ds80| 6.1.09 @ 5:13PM

glevy: you'll have your conversion moment. Hopefully before your particular Judgement.

USMC4Defence: no comment from you about the anti-religious nuts who have killed 50 million since 1973? How about some consistency here?

Also, please explain "apathetic weaklings"

ds80| 6.1.09 @ 5:15PM

Wow. Nothing like saying it 3 times.
mea culpa. my apologies.

AnnMarie| 6.1.09 @ 6:22PM

Nice feint, Royal King--YOU claimed that the left didn't cheer Tony Snow's illness and death. When your lie was exposed you started whining about GretaWire. What a turd you are.

Angel| 6.1.09 @ 6:41PM

My one consolation from the abortion tragedy is the fact that pro-aborters like CHICOM and Glevy have more abortions and eventually will cease to exist. Babies will breathe a sigh of relief that they're gone, too. These people have no soul.

I don't know about you guys but that USMC4Defence guy scares me. Good luck crazy dude, our sweet military is on OUR side. Freak.

ruth| 6.1.09 @ 7:34PM

WOCO74--I don't know if you're pro-life, but if you are you should know that we're not laughing about the murder of Dr. Tiller. Pro-lifers deeply mourn the needless loss of all life, including those who are the most defenseless.

You're right about one thing, though; one day America will be judged for its approval of abortions. 51 million dead and counting, you bet there's going to be a reckoning.

CHITOWN99| 6.1.09 @ 7:36PM

Just like a rocks in teh head conservative Angel...
If you would catch up on your hooked on Phonix and read the rest of the comments you would see that I am actually not for abortion. I stated numerous times that I am against Abortion as a birth control. I can see your mommy was there all the time to teach you to pay attention and read well. How dare you call a Marine a freak? Im liberal and generally against war but I definitely respect the Military, they are only following orders and are sacrificing themselves so Christians like you can protest at soldiers funerals screaming about Jesus!!!
And as for Navybrat...
How is throwing your medals that you earned on your own away treason? It may not be cool, it may not be right, but there is a very large difference between throwing your medals away, yelling babykiller at soldiers and pure treason. Outing an American Spy is treason. Am I correct?

auldzalt| 6.1.09 @ 8:11PM

Two soldiers were shot in Little Rock today. The apprehended perpetrator is a convert to Islam. Are CAIR, Elijah Muhammed, or any other muslims also responsible? Can we say that any one who declared Islam a religion of peace helped motivate this idiot?

Charles Martel| 6.1.09 @ 9:55PM

Glevy, "Christian lands" in this context means countries where the population was Christian until conquered and subjugated by the armies of sword-wielding desert bandits waving the banner of the God-cursed blasphemer and terrorist Mohammed. These include what is now, more or less, Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, North Africa, and Turkey. (Today, that would mean all of Europe except Turkish Thrace and Albania -- not to mention the Western Hemisphere, Australia, the Philippines, or the various island nations of the central and southern Pacific.)

You might want to go to any of those once-Christian countries now (except Israel, of course) and try suggesting to the inhabitants that you don't think they now live in "Muslim lands". How they receive your news may enlighten you, however briefly.

Crusader is right: this did not start with the 11th Century reaction to that conquest. It started with 7th Century Mohammedanism being spread by the sword.

And the barbarians are again resurgent. Let us all hope that the civilized West responds with more resolve this time.

+++

Angel| 6.1.09 @ 10:34PM

Hey dummy CHICOM99; it's 'Hooked on PHONICS', but that's okay, I know you are a proud product of our fine Publik Skool Systym.

Also, I don't believe a true Marine would encourage our Military to kill thousands of Americans--unlike you, illiterate tool.
The fact that you have epilepsy explains some of your churlish behavior.

Glevy, you admit that neither of us knows for sure when a baby becomes a person--at least I give the baby the benefit of the doubt so the child may live. You just want to kill them in the most bloodthirsty ways.

Liberals have the most abortions and their numbers are decreasing. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Mary MacElveen| 6.2.09 @ 12:08AM

As a liberal Democrat or whatever, the practice of abortion horrifies me more than the torture issue. But to specifically speak on the abortion issue itself, I call upon those reading the comments section to this piece to read my column, The Survivors of Abortion which can be found at this link: http://tinyurl.com/nbebmr

Am I upset that Tiller is dead? No, I am not. Although, as one who is truly pro-life from cradle to grave, his killer must be prosecuted.

Best,
Mary MacElveen!

john holmes| 6.2.09 @ 12:22AM

Let's simplify this argument, shall we:
Fact: USA has laws that protects its citizens
Fact: Abortion is legal, per Roe v. Wade
Fact: Murder is illegal

I don't really care about abortion one way or another...but I thought God was the only entity that could judge us. So why are people judging whether abortion is right or wrong? If Dr. Tiller was performing a service that is legal in the USA, then what's the big deal?

Scarlett| 6.2.09 @ 12:37AM

Nice handle, porn boy--bet you're infected. Late stage abortion is NOT legal in Kansas; Tiller was a scofflaw. Governor Kathleen Sebelius helped him escape prosecution. 72% of Americans are against partial-birth abortion--you're a fringe minority. A nasty one at that.

MiddleGround| 6.2.09 @ 12:59AM

Wow, you pro-lifers don't screw around, do you? You are scarier than I thought.

Patsy Anne| 6.2.09 @ 2:45AM

Not as scarey as you liberals with scalpels: 51 million aborted babies proves it.

john holmes| 6.2.09 @ 3:57AM

I can already see it now: the other doctors, like Tiller, who perform late-term abortions will be gunned down in cold blood. And instead of saying these doctors were murdered, the anti-abortion lynch mob will throw a party for the murderers. Sad, sad, sad.

Felix Gabriel| 6.2.09 @ 7:29AM

The proof that OReilly panders to loose canons and foments dissention is amply demonstrated by the vituperation in these "letters".

Crusader| 6.2.09 @ 11:18AM

Charles Martel,

Thanks for getting my back. Glevy is using a tried and true libtard tactic: argue semantics and stay away from facts. He/She/It wants us to spend post after post explaining "Christian lands," then next it might be somethings else, anything but the historical fact that for 400 yeas after its founding islam spread violently and occupied traditionally Christian lands until the Crusades temporarily pushed the arab satanists back. Anyway, I got tired of this long ago. If I have to explain to someone what "Christian lands" means when discussing the Crusades then they are either too ignorant to engage in debate or too intellectually dishonest on which to waste my time. It appears Glevy believes Christians stole the lands in Europe and North Africa from muslim arabs, notwithstanding the fact that islam began in 621, or approximately 6 centuries AFTER Christianity. But libtards never let facts get in the way with their weird love of muslims--something I'll NEVER quite understand. I mean, hardcore libtards--feminazis, gayists, secularist/atheists--are next in line to go after the Jews when the muslims take over. Libtards will STILL be talking about how "intolerant" us Christians are when they're in line to get their heads lopped off by the mooslims.

Anyway, hey USMC4Defence, with a "c:" it is pretty easy to see through libtards who post under names that imply a military background or affiliation. Especially libtards posting from "jolly old" or wherever it is that they spell defense incorrectly (either that or you're a product of publik skrewls). Just saying.

Tell ya what though, since you're in the Ji-reens and all, why doncha come after me? I got a hollow-point .308 round that will fit nicely between your libtard eyes.

Crusader| 6.2.09 @ 11:23AM

Felix, wonderful standard of proof you got there. I hope I never go on trial in a libtard, I mean blue state. Sheesh!

John Holmes, yeah, those abortion docs are dropping like flies! One in 1998, one in 2009---man, when will the carnage END?????

Crusader| 6.2.09 @ 11:37AM

Anyway, back to the original question: Did O'Reilly kill Tiller? No, these guys did:

Burger, Douglas, Brennan, Stewart, Marshall, Blackmun & Powell. Idiots, one and all.

Something to ponder:

Isn't it strange that under our "laws," my 13-year old could get an abortion without having to notify me, her father, a law-abiding, tax-paying American citizen? There are no "reasonable restrictions"--she could get one in week one of gestation or week 39 (granted it would be a little harder now with the Killer gone, haha!). After all, she has a "right to privacy," correct? She needs unlimited access to abortion, that's her "right to choose," right? And if she can't pay for it, then the American taxpayer should, right? I mean, its her CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT, right?

But if I wanted to buy a gun, a right, you know, ACTUALLY IN the Constitution, a right specifically protected by the 2nd Amendment, I have to undergo a background check and waiting periods and am restricted from buying certain types of weapons. Where is MY right to privacy? My right to choose? What about if I can't afford it, is the American taxpayer gonna buy me a gun? Why not? Can someone explain this to me?

God?!| 6.2.09 @ 1:47PM

Crusader, the difference is:

- Your child can get an abortion and all it affects is her. And you can bring up the argument that the "baby" is affected as well but the "baby" is a part of "her".

- You buying a gun can have an effect on a WHOLE bunch of other people.

I, like many of the pro-choice people I speak too, do not agree with aborting babies for the sake of aborting babies. But, I also realize that the decision does not affect me at ALL. My day will not be any worse or better if it does or does not happen.

God?!| 6.2.09 @ 1:51PM

My question to the "anti-choice" crowd is:

-If no "babies" are aborted, and I mean NONE, would your life be any better? Would you be an overall happier person? Would that make life "sweet" or would you find another cause, person or people to vilify?!

CHITOWN99| 6.2.09 @ 1:52PM

Why does everyone celebrate birthdays on the day they were born and not conceived?

Why is it ok to kill adult humans but not an amoeba?

If thou shalt not kill, does that not include everything?

glevy| 6.2.09 @ 2:35PM

Hey Charles Martel and Crusader.....hmmm well since Christianity is a religion and certainly not a race then i guess those "crsitian lands" where something before they became christian lands werent they?

Ooooops another hole in your faulty history lesson. Gee i wonder how the god fearing and jsut Christians subjegated those lands when they got there? Oh yeah by torture, fear, and murder.

So what came first the chicken or the egg?? its a silyl argument that you are making. I am not liberal....see this is the problem with people like you.

Everything is black and white...liberal and conservative. God forbid someone has their own thaughts and opinions on EVERY topic and doesnt jsut follow what 2 lines of thinking tell them to follow.

See im no liberatard I am actually alot smarter, stronger, and yes ill sayy it better than both of you.

Not because i am right or you are wrong. because i think for myself and analize. People like you think they what they are told to think....and that is a sorry waste of human potential!

Go ahead and call me names, and bring up more faulty arguments that I can refute very easily. But it will always remain....i am better than you because i am free! You are caged and im sorry!

And Angel......i happen to agree with you...I do not have a soul but guess what....neither do you. It is a fictional human creation that does not exists. i will only be judged by the life that i lead not in death. I dont need the promise of salvation to do what is right and help others!

glevy| 6.2.09 @ 2:41PM

Sorry about the typos i had to write all of that fast.

But I just want to reiterate one thing. We are arguing about opinions not facts. And as much as everyone here hates to admit it....their opinion could be just as wrong as mine.

All i am trying to say is that both sides need to relax and accept that there is no right and no wrong. Right now if abortion is legal it is right. if you dont like it and cant change it dont have one or move somewhere that will be more comfortable for you! See that is the beauty of this country you always have choice.

Bill O'Reilly did not kill anyone...that is a fact.

glevy| 6.2.09 @ 2:43PM

glevy, I couldn't agree with you more. While I don't believe in "God", I do believe that the world is bigger than me. That I am just a small cog in this crazy machine we call "life". However, I do not believe in an all-seeing, all-knowing, omnipresent superior being. As cliche as it sounds, I believe in ME.

GOD?!| 6.2.09 @ 2:44PM

The last post was mine. I had a "brain fart" and put glevy. LOL!

Crusader| 6.2.09 @ 2:50PM

God?!,

That is a generous assumption on both parts you make. However it doesn't distract from the fact that one "right" is actually IN the US Constitution and one was divined by 7 morons. Again, play word games all you want but why is a woman's right to choose an abortion more complete than my right to choose which weapon I defend my self with? Because the weapon MAY affect other people?

Glevy again you are proving my point that libtards only want to argue semantics to distract from the issue at hand. If we follow your logic than what were the historically muslim lands before they were muslim? And before that what were the historically pagan lands before they were pagan? And before that what were the historically Jewish lands before they were Jewish? I guess if we go back far enough we'll find out that the lands were originally occupied by the first Homo Sapiens who worshiped rocks and trees, so we should return those lands to them. So see, we can keep going back and back in time or we can stick to the point, which was the Crusades were a Christian response to 400 years of barbaric muslim aggression against Christian lands. If you have proof otherwise please share. Instead I am sure you will bring up some random act of violence by a Christian perputrated 800 years ago. How about we talk about the muslim who shot 2 Soldiers in the name of islam YESTERDAY?

Crusader| 6.2.09 @ 2:57PM

File this under: "Questions only a libtard would ask"

"Why does everyone celebrate birthdays on the day they were born and not conceived?"

Ummm, lemme think hard on that one. Hmmmm...why do we celebrate BIRTHdays on the day we were BORN? Hmmmm...why DO we celebrate BIRTHdays on the day we were BORN and not conceived?

I guess there chitown you can celebrate your conception day, but then, it wouldn't be called BIRTHday, would it?

Now wonder libtards want a cradle to grave nanny-state to take care of them. With thinking like this, it must be hard just functioning on a daily basis.

CHITOWN99| 6.2.09 @ 3:01PM

Exactly Crusader!!!
You celebrate your birthday on teh day you were born!!!! You were born, (thus given life) on your birthday!!!! Jackass.
And why Crusader do you have to insult mentally handicapped people by calling liberals, libtards? I assume you are referring to Liberals being retarded? I certainly hope you never have to deal with a family member being mentally handicapped. Is there no end to the complete lack of sensitivity from conservatives? Blood clots in a womans uterus are the only things you care for.

glevy| 6.2.09 @ 3:29PM

Crusader...you are utterly hilarious you are proving my point with every single post. I fail to see how semantics has anything to do with it.

You are arguing an opinion that the Crusades where a response to aggresion. THAT is semantics. I am saying that the past 30,000 any war can be described as a response to aggression!

The difference about the crusades...is that it was in the name of "god" and Christianity! I am not saying that what the Muslims did was any better....it wasnt. It was just as horrible!!!

Christians arent any more "right" than Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Atheists, etc.

My problem isnt with who is right and who is wrong...same as this silly abortion argument. My problem is with people like you AND the crusaders that do not allow for others to possibly have an opininion!

In your logic....the Crusaders could have easily reconquered "their" lands and let the people practice whatever religion they wanted. That didnt happen! Please do not argue this fact!

GOD?!| 6.2.09 @ 3:33PM

"Because the weapon MAY affect other people?" In a nutshell, YES! To ensure public safety, we want to know who purchased the gun, where he/she lives and if he/she is a criminal. That way, if something DOES happen, we know who to arrest.

In the case of an abortion, that's confidential and between the doctor and patient (there goes those pesky laws again). And, it's legal.

glevy| 6.2.09 @ 3:34PM

oh and another thing Mr. Hipocrite i mean CRUSADER. YOU are the one arguin semantics!! Do you even know what that word means???

CHITOWN did no mean for you to take the word BIRTHDAY literally. We all understand that it is tow words...BIRTH and DAY.

his question was....why does the entire world not celebrate conception day? Or vitality day?? hmm?? Or here is a great one....lets have THIRDTRIMESTERDAY.

There we go problem solved.....if we can all agree to stop celbrating BIRTHDAYS and start celebrating CONCEPTIONDAYS...then i can gurantee you all Liberal would be against abortion as well.

God?!| 6.2.09 @ 3:45PM

And to Mr. O'Reilly, it's as simple as:

This is America, a somewhat civilized society. We all have our own opinions and since no one can agree, we come together to make "laws". While you may not agree with the law or the person protected by it, in this case Mr. Tiller, you have to abide by it and you must respect it.

I also believe in the 1st amendment, however, I do not believe in vilifying someone on public television. Fight the law Mr. O'Reilly, not the person. But, as I have found out, Mr. O'Reilly realizes he is not the powerful person he thinks he is. He has no chance to "defeat" the law so he'll attack the person, in this case Mr. Tiller. Typical grade-school bully behavior.

Hillary| 6.2.09 @ 3:53PM

O'Reilly only told the truth about Tiller, and all of it was ugly. That's not O'Reilly's fault. Tiller lived by the sword and died by the sword. Get over it, libtards.

God?!| 6.2.09 @ 3:59PM

No, Hillary, O'Reilly stated his OPINION about Mr. Tiller. He thinks Mr. Tiller is a "killer", I think Mr. Tiller is a "respectable doctor". Both opinions. He thinks Mr. Tiller runs a "death mill". I think Mr. Tiller run a "women's clinic". Again, both opinions. See where this is going?!

GLEVY| 6.2.09 @ 4:20PM

Hey GOD?! Its getting silly arguing with these "conservitards." The moment someone resorts to name calling, they have conceded defeat!!

The problem with people like Hillary and Crusader, is that they really have no opinions for themselves. They argue based on what they are told to argue about. And when they are called on it they get really anrgy and frustrated because they really have no conviction whatsoever.

Oh and you are correct. Bill O'Reilly is not a newsman, he is an editorial man.

Hillary if you need to know the difference check the dictionary honey :)

God?!| 6.2.09 @ 4:25PM

"Hey GOD?! Its getting silly arguing with these "conservitards." The moment someone resorts to name calling, they have conceded defeat!! "

Co-sign 100%.

That's why you'll never see me post a comment where I call anyone on here a name I heard from someone on TV. I'm intelligent enough to come up with my own funny retorts. LOL!

glevy| 6.2.09 @ 4:26PM

Oh and live by the sword and die by the sword hahahaha what a horrible cliche to use!

I guess next time you decide to juuuuust drive through a red light because you are in a hurry...that will make it OK for someone to run a red light and smash into your car rendering you paralyzed or worse.

Apples to apples honey. Live by the sword die by the sword!

God?!| 6.2.09 @ 4:33PM

It's interesting you bring up the "red light" scenario. I was just about to post some more OPINIONS about red lights and stop signs.

I think it's wrong for me to have to stop at a red light or stop sign if NO cars are on the road. However, if a policeman happens to see me, I will (and should) get a ticket. Will I resort to calling the policeman a "racist (by the way, I'm black), ticket-giving, power-abusing bastard?! No, because I'm mad at the law, not the person enforcing it.

Same thing to Mr. O'Reilly and his followers. Fight the law, not Mr. Tiller.

Leigh| 6.2.09 @ 4:40PM

Fox-sponsored terrorism.

God?!| 6.2.09 @ 4:43PM

Conservatives, republicans, pro-lifers, christians or whatever label you want to use, this question is for you.

It's okay for a woman to have an abortion if she was raped but it's not okay if she just decides she doesn't want to have the baby anymore?!

Now, we can all agree laws are put in place for a reason. However, when you start including "shades of gray", you must include ALL shades of gray. Once you make one exception, how can you deem other exceptions "wrong" or "evil"? It's either murder or not.

You can't just pick and choose the exceptions that "fit" your religious beliefs.

God?!| 6.2.09 @ 4:47PM

It works both ways though. If a woman is 7 months pregnant and she knows without a doubt the baby will be born a healthy boy or girl, I will scream at the top of my lung that abortion is not the answer.

However, once she has made the decision to abort the baby, my screaming becomes useless and I end up looking like a raging lunatic.

Missy| 6.2.09 @ 6:34PM

He's dead, libtards; Dr. Tiller's not here anymore. He'll never get to tear a baby limb from limb again. Thank God. Time for you losers to move on and get a life. Get a job--I'm sure that's never occurred to you.

Hillary| 6.2.09 @ 6:39PM

We're not the ones getting angry and frustrated that Tiller is dead. If you love him so much why didn't you protect him BEFORE he was gunned down? A little late for you to be whining and crying now. You should have stood up for him when it mattered. Morons.

bardgal| 6.2.09 @ 6:55PM

The internet is your friend, google is easy to use. Those of you who really believe a healthy woman carrying an eight-month healthy fetus can just waltz into a medical facility and get an abortion need to actually READ Roe v Wade. There are restrictions written into it that the mother's health MUST be at stake, and believe it or not, there are many, MANY times when this might be true for someone you know and love: Very aggressive cancers that feed on placenta and fetal tissue, the death of the fetus which doesn't always result in a spontaneous miscarriage, especially in the late stages of pregnancy, and the toxins this releases into your body can kill you.... , a grossly disfigured fetus which might be "viable" for a week at most...

Judge not lest ye be judged.

There are 100 to 200 viable babies a year born in the US with anencephaly (A lethal malformation of the CNS in which the forebrain, cerebellum, cranium, and scalp do not form.) What would you do? I, personally would carry the child to term as a viable organ donor, and know that my child saved other children.

What would you do? What if your wife, sister, daughter, was carrying a dead fetus inside her, and her life was at stake. Would you let her die?

Hillary| 6.2.09 @ 9:12PM

Bardgal--we're so very tired of liberals' lies. 72% of Americans are AGAINST late-term abortion; that makes you part of an extreme fringe minority.

The AMA has stated that there's almost no reason for a late term abortion for the life of the mother because of medical advancements. It just doesn't happen. It's ridiculous to say that a woman whose life is threatened by a dead child inside of her wouldn't have surgery to save her life. Fool.

There were only THREE 'doctors' willing to perform these barbaric procedures in the whole country--now there are only two. You know why? Because doctors know that late-term abortions are most often an unnecessary, savage procedure: Often done for the mothers' 'mental health' or convenience.

Tiller performed 60,000 late-term abortions over the last 35 years. 60,000 abortions @ $5,000 each = $300,000,000. Partial birth abortion made Dr. Tiller a VERY wealthy man--too bad he couldn't take any of that money with him.

Peddle your lies elsewhere, we know you're an amoral fraud.

Missy| 6.2.09 @ 9:20PM

bardgal, I feel sorry for the child you conceive. You'd treat him/her like a possession. If you want to make a sacrifice, use your own body to do it. It's easy to offer up the life and limb of another, and pathetic that you'd feel noble about it. No skin off your nose.

Jodie| 6.2.09 @ 9:55PM

Dr. Tiller did not charge any fee for my 12-year-old niece who was impregnated by rape by her father (now serving 18 years in prison).
Would all of you, and Mr. O'reilly, force a child to endure a pregnancy? She was 4'10" tall and weighed 97 pounds.
She was afraid to say anything because her father had threatened her and her mother and siblings if she told. By the time it was obvious, it was past the time for an early procedure.
Anyone who advocates murder is perverted and godless.

Jeannie| 6.3.09 @ 12:05AM

Precisely, Jodie--"Anyone who advocates murder is perverted and godless." You've just described yourself, because none of us here advocated Tiller's murder. (Or didn't you notice?)

Tiller is responsible for the killing of 60,000 infants. That's pretty perverted and godless to me.

Mel| 6.3.09 @ 7:58AM

Tiller murdered for a living...PERIOD!! He made millions murdering babies. I don't agree that he was killed however, he was a murderer..anyone that takes away life is a murderer...so quit acting like he was just "doing a job" If you don't want a life don't have a baby. If you have a baby growing inside you then have that life...life is for a reason...every life...God's reason..and if you don't believe in God your lost anyway.

Mel| 6.3.09 @ 8:02AM

I wonder how many lives will be saved now that Tiller is out of the picture....maybe not many but if even 1 life is spared....

Jodie...are you glad you weren't aborted, thrown away, wasted?

shayne| 6.3.09 @ 8:15AM

1 down 2 to go!

CHITOWN99| 6.3.09 @ 9:38AM

Shayne, uhm, I hate to tell you this.....

There are literally thousands and thousands of doctors who perform this life saving procedure for women. The reason your small town, hillbilly, backwards ass, country fuck ass only thinks there are three of these doctors is because they all know how shallow the gene pool is in your town and how crazy you right wing nut jobs get. All it takes is a night of listening to Toby Keith and too much moonshine and you go hunting for a edumacated man!!!!

shayne| 6.3.09 @ 10:00AM

Chitown-- did i hit a nerve? you know I hope I did.....there are 3 that do these LATE LATE TERM Murders....Tiller was one...two to go now...why don't you..Mr. easy to upset man... do some research...your wacky left wing thinking is no better than the thinking of Tillers right wing thinking murderer....They are both MURDERERS!! Have a nice day!

btw who is Toby Keith?

Peace maker| 6.3.09 @ 12:54PM

Right wingers are against abortion but favor killing of adults as Dr. tiller and thousands of iraqi women and children who had nothing to mdo with 9/11, also illegal immigrants and anyone who disagrees with them. God gave them the right to carry arms because killing is Godly

Patty Ann| 6.3.09 @ 1:27PM

Peace maker favors the killing of 51,000,000 innocent babies, including the 60,000 infants ripped apart by Dr. Tiller. Now, that's the kind of PEACE liberals celebrate.

Peace maker is an atheist, so God isn't necessary to give liberals this right; they just do it for the hell of it. Besides, liberals can't hear the screams of those infants. Makes it a little easier for them.

bardgal| 6.3.09 @ 3:12PM

Missy - Are you really against organ donation if your child dies after birth? REALLY? That is the definition of self-centered selfishness. YOU are the one who thinks of a child as a possession - you're so possessive you wouldn't share your child's no longer needed gifts of life with other children! The worst part of it is, you can't even see that.

My husband and I CHOSE to not CONCEIVE any children. If we ever want to have a family beyond ourselves and our four-footed kids, we will gladly adopt an unwanted child.

Chris| 6.3.09 @ 4:00PM

How can one claim to be "pro-life" but support killing and murder at the same time? If you condone murder for any reason what so ever, your not pro-life and you obviously have your priorities screwed up.

PR| 6.3.09 @ 4:08PM

If you want to stop Bill O'Reilly from having freedom of speech, you have a lot of folks that you need to censor first. How about George Clooney, Angelina Jolie, Ice T, or any of the other dozen or so gangsta rappers that exploit violence in their movies or music to get rich. O'Reilly is entitled to his opinion and you have the right to turn the channel if you don't want to listen. Roeder committed murder on his own and it was because he listened to as many left wing media statements as he did right. He is responcible, to deal with him and him alone, until you have proof beyond a shadow of a doubt that there was a conspiracy. It is funny that all of a sudden any wrong act is a terrorist act. Must be the new catch phrase for the left. The first thing that the left does when the dissagree with someone is try to smear them or discredit them with lies and innuendo. To me that is a terrorist act in itself.

bardgal| 6.3.09 @ 4:49PM

Chris - Well said. I wonder how many people here are pro-death penalty?

Cassy| 6.3.09 @ 5:53PM

Did any of the 60,000 dead babies receive the death penalty in the court system before being sentenced to Tiller the Baby Killer?

What due process did these babies receive before being sucked from the womb in pieces?

Missy| 6.3.09 @ 7:42PM

Bardgal, it's great that you don't want children--motherhood is not for everyone. I honestly don't think you could hack it because of your self-absorption.

I didn't say I was against my baby's organ donation, I'm just not obsessed with it as you seem to be. I called you on your BS that all late term abortions are necessary. I see you couldn't prove your lies.

Oh, I hope YOU have an organ donor card.

bardgal| 6.3.09 @ 7:46PM

Cassy - Nice way to not answer the question.

But I will answer yours - No, fetuses cannot speak, nor hire attorneys - and my guess is they have no opinion on the death penalty.

Your turn.

Missy| 6.3.09 @ 7:52PM

Missy - I never said I was for ALL late-term abortion. YOU said that YOU were against all. GO back and read my other posts. You inferred I meant that, when that is clearly not what I said, nor meant.

What on earth makes you think I'm self absorbed?

What lies are you talking about exactly?

You're very correct - motherhood isn't for everyone. I think everyone here can agree with that.

In my state we actually have an Donor Database which I am in, and I encourage everyone to please be in (my sister is alive today because of a generous organ donor.)

Missy| 6.3.09 @ 7:52PM

You liberals make me laugh. You scream and yell for every perverted serial child rapist and killer on the planet to be spared the death penalty, but you don't think twice about ripping and tearing apart any baby in the womb--without pain medication, even if the baby is 8 months along.

Talk about sick and twisted--you libtards are perverted hypocrites.

I'm pro-life--for the babies and for those on death row. I am NOT the hypocrite here--you are, bardgal.

bardgal| 6.3.09 @ 7:54PM

MISSY - APOLOGIES - last post was MINE!!! BARDGAL!!!! (I am also an apparent complete spaz today. ) MISSY DID NOT MAKE THAT LAST POST - it was TOO her.

Missy I AM SO SORRY for mislabeling that post!!!!

bardgal| 6.3.09 @ 7:56PM

YIKES - apparently I need to READ the post - thought it was mine, just proving how stupid I am today.

please disregard my last post. now on to what Missy said.

bardgal| 6.3.09 @ 8:19PM

Missy

I'm not a "libtard." You have no idea what my political beliefs are, nor I yours. You are not aware of my profession, nor I yours.

I (perhaps naïvely) believe we can have a discussion because there are many aspects to this subject, and that it's not as clear-cut as many on both sides would like to believe.

Let me ask you three questions which I will also answer:

Do you believe in free access to family planning (meaning education in preventing unwanted pregnancies, access to birth control (pill, IUD, condoms, implants)?

I think we need to make the reason to ever seek an abortion be as rare as possible. In countries where it is illegal, the self-tried ones are much worse than you could possibly imagine. I think education and birth control are very valuable. I also would love a world where there is no child abuse and rape (I've seen too much of that), no female or male circumcision (God made the human form - why are we altering it in that way?) and where females aren't treated as property. Perhaps we as a species can find a way to be above hate, and get to that place.... someday.

(Two part question:) Your sister (lets say for the sake of the question) is in her 8th month of pregnancy. Both she and her unborn child are in distress - they could both die - or you could save only one - do you: A) - Save either? and B) if yes, which one?

I for one, would try to save the most viable in the equation, but I (personally) think this is a case-by-case situation relying heavily on medical professionals.

Are you for or against the death penalty? You never said exactly, and I don't want to infer by your response above.

I do not believe our justice system is perfect, that is why I am anti-death penalty - and like my mother taught me, "only God can make that call." I think rapists and murderers should be put away for life.

Missy| 6.3.09 @ 9:38PM

You set a deliberately false premise, bardgal. Your supposition is not true. Most late-term abortions are performed for the mother's 'mental health issues'--not her life. Google the AMA's statement on this matter.

I wish you felt just a fraction of the compassion for the sweetest, most innocent of us all that you seem to feel toward rapists and murderers.

You're mother was right, "Only God can make that call."

God bless the innocent Angels who are victims of abortion.

Jodie| 6.3.09 @ 10:09PM

There is a foolproof way to make sure there are no more abortions and no doctors who provide them.
Make sure that at puberty every female has a contraceptive implant. No conception = No pregnancy = No abortion.
It has always to me seemed extremely irrational that every anti-abortion fanatic is also against contraceptive education and contraceptive materials.
The real tragedy of giving power to the anti-abortion idiots by repealing Roe v. Wade, is that women with money will always be able to fly away to another country to have an abortion but the poor, those least able to care for the unwanted children, will either have to contend with an unwanted child or resort to the back alley abortionists that caused 10,000 deaths a year back in my earlier days. I was born in 1939 and lived through and saw the results and those were truly the "BAD OLD DAYS" for many women.
Unless you have been in the shoes of a female who is desperate enough to seek an abortion, you have no right to speak and men should have no voice at all.
If men were subject to pregnancy, abortion would have been legal from the time it became possible and none of the vocal extremists would have been tolerated.

Missy| 6.3.09 @ 11:41PM

The days aren't so good now, Jodie. The incidence of severe depression and suicide in women who've aborted their babies is much higher than those who haven't.

Many thousands of women suffer terrible guilt for their past abortions--I know because I work as a counselor for these women everyday.

Rather than automatically killing their babies, why don't we help the women with unplanned pregnancies financially, emotionally and medically so we don't sentence them to a life of terrible regret?

It's easy to look away while the baby is terminated, but with courage and love we can help the mom and the child.

I believe women are worth fighting for, and so are their children.

Lemon Drop| 6.4.09 @ 12:56AM

Jodie, you're still in those 'bad old days', but they no longer exist. We've had 99% foolproof birth control meds for 40 years. Most unplanned pregnancies are ridiculous--and you know it. You need to get a grip old girl.

Ted Michael Morgan| 6.4.09 @ 1:11AM

Many of the people who equate abortion with murder represent large Christian denominations supported by millions of people who do not make that equation but who, for whatever reasons, still give money to support those institutions. People who continued to pay the bills for the bishops and others who malign physicians are as much at fault in creating the climate of hate that fostered the murder of Dr. Tiller and the loss of health care for women everywhere.

Cassy| 6.4.09 @ 5:50AM

bardgal-- I apologize that my answer was over your head. When I have more time I'll try to explain it to you as I realize some people are at a lower understanding level. Maybe if I send pictures you'll get it?? Poor thing.

Sally| 6.4.09 @ 12:01PM

Thanks for your liberal drivel, Ted. I think 51,000,000 abortions have created that climate of hate you so detest. You would have made a great slave owner--liberals like you dehumanized those folks, too. Heartless Atheist losers like you just never get it.

Grlbhvingbadly| 6.4.09 @ 12:14PM

Why do so many people feel they have to make a decision for someone else? Put yourself in the shoes of the woman who has made HER decision. The doctor didn't tie her down and force her to do it. He was simply assisting women in their decision. Besides -- would you rather that she have the baby and throw it in a dumpster? Leave it somewhere? Have the child entered into the state system for 18 years with no guarantees of how well their lives will turn out?

Leave the decision to the person who carries the reproductive organs, and go on with your life.

Walter Smallbein| 6.4.09 @ 12:38PM

Grlbhvingbadly remember Kevorkian assisted in suicides and he was prosecuted for it even with grown adults making their own decisions. IT IS MURDER. Each woman who chooses to abort is no better than Kevorkian or Tiller or anyone actually carrying out the murder or assisting the suicide. Life is for a reason as stated perfectly in a post above by Shayne. God creates each life for His purpose. Once life is formed in the womb God shall be the only one to take it away. If you don't believe in God your lost anyway.

Walter Smallbein| 6.4.09 @ 12:44PM

Sorry the post I was referncing was Mel not Shayne although Shaynes post is well stated too.

bardgal| 6.4.09 @ 1:41PM

Missy - thanks for your last post. ( 6.3.09 @ 11:41PM) Very well said, and I agree 100%. And you're a GODDESS for your work with these women!

Cassy - Yes, please explain, use small words and simple sentences - I've apparently spent too much time at University to see where your obfuscating actually answered my question. In my education answering a question with a question is a popular improv game seen a lot on the Drew Carey Show.

Missy| 6.4.09 @ 2:06PM

Girl Behaving badly, you're so blind. Don't you see that women who abort are making the ULTIMATE decision for another person?

Is it your uterus that gives you this right? The mother's not killing herself--she's killing another distinct human being.

First, use birth-control if you don't want to get pregnant--if you're pregnant give your baby to a desperate childless couple who would love to have a child to care for.

Many childless couples are heart-broken because there are no babies for them to adopt.

Don't kill your baby, the grief and regret will haunt you for the rest of your life.

Cassy| 6.4.09 @ 4:17PM

"obfuscating" NICE ---Bardgal found a dictionary and surrounded her "new word" with the same old itty bitty words she's been using in her other mindless posts. University of Ghetto. You poor thing.

bardgal| 6.4.09 @ 4:22PM

Cassy - Would "evasive" make you happier?

Please answer the question: Do you support the death penalty? It's a simple yes/no answer.

bardgal| 6.4.09 @ 4:27PM

Cassy - oh, and it's bardgal without being capitalized. I attended Goldsmith's College, University of London, not Bard College.

Cassy| 6.4.09 @ 8:57PM

actually, oblique would make me pee my pants.

BARDGAL- NO I support God. Only He gives life and only He should take it away.

Now, you go brush up on another big word for your vocabulary arsenal. With obfuscating, evasive and now oblique (my addition), you'll be working on number 4 which is after number 3. Got it U of G girl?

bardgal| 6.5.09 @ 1:50PM

Cassy - Thank you for answering the question. I agree with you 100%.

And actually, it's U of L (if the Brits actually abbreviated their Universities....)

bardgal| 6.5.09 @ 3:02PM

Apologies, my more complete response should be - it's GC@UL . Goldsmith's is one of the many colleges that comprise UofL. Like Queen's College, Cambridge.

Anyway - Thanks for answering. I actually believe there are more things we all can agree on, than things we disagree on.

Missy| 6.6.09 @ 2:00PM

Yes, please, let's all agree on the preciousness of life.

Life is the ultimate gift from our Creator, our God.

glevy| 6.9.09 @ 11:48AM

God.....hahahahaha. Weak minded fools!! Scared of what lies ahead. Wasting their precious lives worrying about what happens when they turn to dust hahahaha. I would feel sorry for you except that you do not desrve pity because you have spent thousands of years forcing your silly fairy tales upon others. Sometimes by physical force.

You simple minded weaklings cannot fathom that we live in a religion free country where foolish stories do not govern law. You fools cannot come to grips witht he fact that millions upon millions of people have different opinions that yours....its because you are weak.

I do not mock you for your views they do not worry or intimidate me. But if it ever comes to fighting fascist oppression by religion, you bet we (the strong in mind and body) will crush you once again!!

BTW my family has lived in an oppressive country i doubt any of you hypocrites have ever exeperienced having your rights taken away from you!

How dare you insult this beautiful country by trying to force your pitiful fairy tales onto those who choose not to beleive in them.