The American Spectator : Donna Brazile and the Bitter Realities of Obamacare

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The Health Care Spectator

Donna Brazile and the Bitter Realities of Obamacare

By Ryan James Girdusky on 3.1.13 @ 6:08AM

Turns out her premiums are going up. Who knew?

On February 27, political strategist Donna Brazile’s Twitter feed became a conservative dream come true: a Democrat facing the reality of government regulation. Brazile has been one of President Obama’s strongest advocates and supporters, especially regarding Obamacare. She tweeted last March:

She even went as far as calling opponents of Obamacare “intolerant.” But now the reality of government regulation in the private marketplace hasn’t gone the way Ms. Brazile had hoped:

There may not be a good answer for her, but there is a correct one: Obamacare. Healthcare premiums increased 9% in 2011 and are expected to increase by 6% in 2013. A loyal Democrat, however, never lets math or economics get in the way of ideology. Brazile doubled down:

Despite Brazile’s best efforts to deflect the problem onto greedy corporations, prices for young people are set to skyrocket under Obamacare. Further, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act doesn’t permit price gouging, since the law allows at most a 3-to-1 ratio for premiums. Brazile catches onto this, and then launches into a holier-than-thou rant about how Obamacare protects seniors and women from greedy capitalists:

Brazile takes the road more often traveled: rather than questioning her ideology and her president’s policies, she simply doubles down again, praising the president’s actions and getting excited about the future after seeming to not understand how they have gotten us to the present:

I often question whether liberals like Donna Brazile ever will place blame on their own failed policies and how they hurt the very people they promise to protect: seniors, women, minorities… people like Brazile. I also question if any liberal has ever passed a high school economics or math class…or in Michael Moore’s case, gym.

Image courtesy Ron Aira, Brazile Associates.

About the Author

Ryan James Girdusky has previously been published at Human Events, DailyCaller.com and Christian Science Monitor. Follow him on Twitter @Ryan_JamesG.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (160) | Leave a comment Leave a comment

Appleby| 3.1.13 @ 6:29AM

Trust me, after many years living here in Kanukistan under socialist medicine, the people who believed there is a Big Rock Candy Mountain will never figure out that if the Goodies you want have to be provided by other people, and the other people have choices, what you will have in place of medical care is a plastic card that entitles you to nothing. And I'd like to hear from anybody who has ever known a government program that worked the way the government said it would -- or cost anything like the "free" you were promised.

markenoff| 3.1.13 @ 1:28PM

Everyone has health insurance. The challenge is to get medical care.

TLP| 3.1.13 @ 2:46PM

Am I the only one who thinks - Banana - everytime I see this Broad?

TLP| 3.1.13 @ 4:45PM

CONTEST!

Wednesday's Life of Pi.

legolasmarun| 3.2.13 @ 3:19PM

just as Jennifer implied I'm alarmed that some one can get paid $9869 in one month on the internet. did you read this website Epic2.C0M

Gueppebarre| 3.2.13 @ 9:08PM

Free stuff is always worth what you pay for it, brother! Now you know... and we're finding out! Not that we're learning a damn thing, though...

uuu| 3.1.13 @ 7:00AM

if brazile thinks her premium is going up now wait until all those "poor people" stick their hands out for the subsidy in 2014. what does she think will happen to the cost then? do the words college tuition ring a bell?

Von Mises Jr| 3.1.13 @ 9:10AM

OsamaCare has the makings of revolution or civil war. The people up to about $80K income qualify for subsidies, but nobody knows what those subsidies are yet. The IRS disclosed that the "bronze" plan through the Exchanges will cost about $16K for a family of four and about $20K for a family of five. So if you have a crap job and your employer chooses to pay the $2K fine and dump you on the Exchange, either you pay the $16-20K less the subsidy or pay a fine of 1% in 2014 rising to 2.5% in 2016. At $80K Gross Income, for Perp that is $800 escalating to $2K for not having insurance.
For race-baiting elites such as Brazille, her premiums will "NECESSARILY SKYROCKET" since people such as her will pay for the subsidies. So bend over Donna, here comes the OsamaCare Choo Choo train.
Whether you are a wealthy race baiter, or a person making under $80K, it appears that someone Donnas’ age who smokes will pay an additional fine of $4-5K per year ranges. But even if old donna doesn't smoke ( I don't know if crack is included), I am sure Macho Moochelle will be after her fat caboose just as she banned Oprah from the White House for being a ton of lard.
So get used to it, old Donna. You ain't seen nothin yet.

buckeyeman| 3.1.13 @ 11:08AM

"So bend over Donna..."

Never, ever say that again.

Arnie| 3.1.13 @ 7:05AM

hmmm, My average monthly payment for health insurance for the last 7 years has been about 150 dollars.

It's total comprehensive coverage, minus elective cosmetic surgery of course. All surgeries, hospital care, general checkups, dental cleanings, eye checks, physicals, tests, physical therapy ...all covered.

The insurance doesn't cover all medicine. But basic medicines are free, and all others are price regulated. I spend about 30 dollars a year on all medicines.

Every doctor and hospital accepts my insurance. My deductibles are ZERO....nothing, nada, nic, nishta, nix. Occasionally I have to pay for a fee, but my out of pocket costs average about 15-30 dollars per year. I have absolutely no bills or debt related to my health care.

I've neither experienced bad care, nor I have waited a long time for any health related issue.

I can still buy private insurance if I want, but it's way more expensive, and hardly covers anything more, and isn't accepted everywhere.

Where do I live? Europe.

Single-payer, universal health care. Check it out.

Stormzeye| 3.1.13 @ 7:53AM

Arnie, the only reason Europe can afford free health care is because they have no military and no intention of ever getting one as long as Uncle Sam keeps up its eleven carrier groups and a large fleet of ballistic missile submarines. You and your fellow "progressives" are no different than panhandlers.

Arnie| 3.1.13 @ 8:28AM

Well, it's not Europe's fault that the U.S. has spent trillions of dollars maintaining bases in over 30 countries, and pays too much for overpriced hardware. If you don't like all that military spending, tell your Congressman.

bustunloose| 3.1.13 @ 8:41AM

Enjoy praying 5 time a day.

buckeyeman| 3.1.13 @ 11:15AM

So Arnie, how does your comment change the economics? If I let my spoiled brat of a kid live in my basement and paid his expenses would you then argue that playing video games "works" as an economic plan?

BTW, one of the reasons we help pay for Europe's defense is the 400,000 American lives lost the last time we let you run your socialist playground all by yourselves.

Arnie| 3.1.13 @ 11:26AM

Yep, Europe screwed up back then. But the U.S. could have left 2 decades ago.

Plus, that doesn't really explain all the other military actions and bases around the rest of the world.

If you don't like, then ask your Congressman to pull the troops out of Europe (or anywhere else for that matter.)

Stephie| 3.1.13 @ 4:20PM

And those bases employee lots and lots of nationals. They won't be happy when Uncle Sam pulls out and takes their jobs with them.

TLP| 3.1.13 @ 4:47PM

CONTEST at Wednesday's Life of Pi.

Purp| 3.1.13 @ 9:14AM

Stormy - are you saying Americans are stupid then? Sounds like it.

Fred the Cockatoo| 3.1.13 @ 10:20AM

Purp commenting on Arnie; is this more like Goering agreeing with Himmler, or a conversation between Norman Bates and his mother?

Purp| 3.1.13 @ 12:14PM

This analysis is from "Fred the Cockatoo"? LMFAO ... OMG... LOL... hahahaha

Fred the Cockatoo| 3.1.13 @ 10:20PM

Among your many flaws is a complete lack of a sense of self awareness. You call yourself “PURP”, yet you dare to mock someone else’s posting name? Purp, which rhymes with “Slurp” (something I imagine you do frequently) and then “Burp” (with your mouth open that wide, you can take on a lot of gas) and then you “Chirp” (and way too much, if you ask anyone else here).

So, then, why don’t you
Suck the cockatoo

Jimmyjames66| 3.2.13 @ 2:34PM

That's Rich, Stormzy.
You "Patriots" allow those "loyal to America" transnationals free protection from our military, then you allow them to sell our own resources back to us at world market prices.
And speaking of panhandlers,
did you pay for your wars yet?
Do you ever plan to?
Deadbeat?
You dead enders are a pitiful bunch.

Nancy in NC| 3.1.13 @ 8:10AM

If you live in the UK, you are a liar or you're part of the government or some other special interest. The type of care is not what the average joe in England gets. (The dental part is a real joke...you can recognize the average person from the UK because of their lack of teeth or how horrible they are.)

arnie, go peddle your crap somewhere else...maybe someone will believe it there.

Arnie| 3.1.13 @ 8:24AM

Nancy, I don't live in the U.K.

And get your facts straight. I am talking about single payer insurance. The U.K. has (very close to) complete socialized medicine. These are 2 different things.

And in any case, both systems are judged to perform better and cheaper than the private insurance system of the U.S.

Stephie| 3.1.13 @ 4:23PM

You are dense dude. Ask any body who lives in the UK how their "healthcare" is. The upper crust buy additional policies as do the elderly here to take up the slack of the govt run crap.

Purp| 3.1.13 @ 9:15AM

Once again, dear, you don't know what you're talking about. Emotions seem to rule you, honey... go learn something other than from Fixed News.

Stephie| 3.1.13 @ 4:24PM

Typical misogynistic regressive liberal male. Kind of like that freak from CO who told women who were being raped to "pee or vomit on their rapist" because she is too stupid to use a gun.
We know who runs the war on women and it isn't the right.

Jimmyjames66| 3.2.13 @ 2:38PM

You are right perp.
Emotions has this one tied up tight.

bustunloose| 3.1.13 @ 8:39AM

Which country is this ? 150 a month after you pay all those taxes ? Really ? how's that next recession gonna effect things ? They buy any new medical imaging technology ? I hear mri units are quite scarce. So please stay there and but your nose out of our business. Do you have a car ? How many square feet are you digs ? Are you getting rich ? Grabbing at opportunities and making a nice buck-we like to hustle here in the middleclass even-tough now but I flipped a property and did ok. Gonna buy a super nice wave runner this summer. Did you make any profits latley. I gave the food bank in my wife's poor hometown in Maine a nice donation, too. The people their are idiota like you and are democrats-but they shouldn't starve. Enjoy paradise. Go to some museum the 100th time and tell yourself how utterly sophisticated and advanced you are. Ever gonna get married and raise a family ? Or, is it all about you.

Arnie| 3.1.13 @ 8:58AM

No dummy, the 150 dollars is what I pay in taxes for health care. :-) That's it. And the medical technology here is up to date. I have not experienced any shortages.

No I don't have a car. Nor do I want one.
The public transportation, the buses and trains, and cheap flights are more than sufficient. Plus I spend about 1000 dollars total on transportation costs a year. How much does your family spend per year with car insurance? About 10K?

Yes, I won property, and yes, I have a family. :-)

bustunloose| 3.1.13 @ 12:25PM

150 more in taxes on top of all the other taxes ? Your getting screwed pal.No car, cramped litte flat. All so you can get free viagra. I am shopping around for my wave runner now. just bought my daughter a car. Not new-4 year old Accord. But a nice car-moon roof-great sound. What does your daughter have-a bus pass ? Well to each their own. Do you have a tv ? Or is it telly ? Do you have HD or Plasma there yet-I mean can the ordinary regular guy buy one ?

Purp| 3.1.13 @ 9:17AM

Do you really believe what the Conservative Entertainment Media shoves at you? You do know it's only for ratings, don't you?
You can't seriously believe all that crap.

Stephie| 3.1.13 @ 4:26PM

I bet you watch Morning Joe and Chrissy Matthews. And I bet you think it's "news"

TLP| 3.1.13 @ 4:48PM

CONTEST at Wednesday's Life of Pi.

Denver Todd| 3.1.13 @ 10:12AM

Let' all agree that some people are happy with socialized medicine, especially the ones who never use it, or the ones who can flee from it to the USA. Here is an example of someone who did have to use it: http://youtu.be/GOQ4T17eP3M. I don't think he is one of the happy one.

Drunken Sailor| 3.1.13 @ 10:37AM

Now tell us about all the taxes Europeans pay for their "free health care". When will you liberals ever learn there is no such thing as a free lunch?

Italy - 43% income tax.
UK - 50% + and a 17.5% VAT.
Sweden 57.77% + and a 25% VAT.

Go peddle your snake oil somewhere else.

Drunken Sailor| 3.1.13 @ 10:38AM

This is for Arnie. I love how those praising universal healthcare never explain how it is paid for.

Arnie| 3.1.13 @ 11:08AM

DS, you are not showing the complete brackets of taxes. Some in those countries pay as low as 20% of income taxes, the rich, as high as 60%.

Here's the UK for example. Let me remind you, the pound is worth 50% more than the dollar.

https://www.gov.uk/income-tax-rates

buckeyeman| 3.1.13 @ 11:21AM

And the Norwegian Krone is worth 17.5 cents. So what?

Arnie| 3.1.13 @ 11:28AM

My point being, the taxes aren't that bad for a middle class salary.

Drunken Sailor| 3.1.13 @ 11:25AM

Ok,
UK - 0-37,400 20%
37,400 -150,000 50%

Italy
up to 15, 23%
15,001 -28,000 27%
28,01 - 55,000 38%
55,001 - 75,000 41%
+75,000 43%

Sweden - Individuals pay both national income tax and municipal income tax. In 2010 rates change bwtween 54% and 61% with 57.77 being the average.

Once again, in at least two of these countries you also have a VAT tax. The one good thing I see about these countries is that everyone pays something into the system.

But to say your healthcare is cheaper is a false statement, The high taxes pay for the healthcare.

Arnie| 3.1.13 @ 11:36AM

Of course taxes pay for it. But if you consider federal rates in the U.S. plus state income taxes, plus sales taxes...the taxes can add up in the U.S. also, to easily be around 35% for many people. Middle class included.

The difference being, in Europe they see some results for those taxes. In America, you still have to pay extra for your health care, but Raytheon, Boeing, Bechtel, KBR, Pratt and Whitney, General Electric, Honeywell, Northrop Gunman, and Lockheed Martin are doing just fine.

I personally do not think the U.S. should be the G.I. Joe of the world with a massive expensive military. In this sense, I am in complete agreement with Ron Paul.

Drunken Sailor| 3.1.13 @ 12:31PM

You're right. lets pull out of all European countries. Then sit back and watch as you are either overrun or your taxes shoot through the moon to rebuild your militaries after years of letting us carry the water.

Not saying the European military service members can't hold their own. They can and I have served alongside many of them. But they can't hold their own by themselves as they are undermanned, underfunded, under equipped. You get the idea.

Drunken Sailor| 3.1.13 @ 12:32PM

Of course none of this even begins to cover the differences in the size of populations, who provides most of the medical research, the logistical impossibilities of mass transit here compared to there etc, etc.

Even if I agree with your premise that healtcare there is adequate (I don't) it could be much better if the goverment kept their hands out.

I was in Italy for 3 years and saw how the hospitals were staffed, equipped, trained, etc. so I'm not just talking out my ass. Hospital beds raised on wooden blocks (hello infection control), steel bedpans/unrinals (hello housekeeping), patients having to rely on family or friends to provide meals, 2 nurses per floor or 2 nurses for every 40 patients. We would give them our hand me downs and they were very grateful as even it was better than what they had.

I pulled my wife out of the italian hospital when I came to visit and saw her IV had blood backed up clear to the IV bag. No one had been by to check on her in over 5 hours. Took vacation days and took better care of her than they were.

Don't try to sell me socialized medicine. Seen it and you can keep it.

Arnie| 3.1.13 @ 12:42PM

Fair enough. How long ago was that?

I get the impression (maybe incorrectly) that many of you have impressions from Europe from several decades ago.

There was the rebuilding western Europe, for some time now - modern Europe, and now the catching up Eastern Europe.

Plus, I have noticed some hospitals are just ran better than others. Remember, in many parts of Europe, not all the clinics are state run or private. It is usually a mix. I've seen fantastic state run hospitals, and private ones. The same can be said for the bad ones.

My point being, if someone came across a bad hospital in Europe, it could have been a private one.

Plus, not every hospital in America is in sterling condition.

Drunken Sailor| 3.1.13 @ 2:33PM

2001 but you want something a little more recent.

OK,

Basic errors killing 1000 NHS patients a month a study has revealed

http://www.thompsons.law.co.uk.....tients.htm

Arnie| 3.1.13 @ 2:37PM

That means the Brits still have less deaths due to errors than the Americans.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/11856.php

Arnie| 3.1.13 @ 2:46PM

Something more recent about medical deaths in the USA.

http://www.azmedicalmalpractic.....th-in-u-s/

bustunloose| 3.1.13 @ 3:44PM

Yeah and they have lower infant mortality. Cept they start counting after 16 weeks-we the instant child is born. Sorry we have your number.

Arnie| 3.1.13 @ 4:42PM

That's funny. Because the CIA collects their own information about this. Even they say U.K. has a lower rate than the good ol'USA.

Sucks for you bustinloose, being wrong all the time.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html

Arnie| 3.1.13 @ 4:45PM

You might want to take notice of all those other countries with single payer insurance that have lower mortality rates than the USA.

bustunloose| 3.1.13 @ 10:32PM

our criteria is day one. They wait 16 weeks before they count it. It is in the footnotes of these UN reports.

Arnie| 3.2.13 @ 4:58AM

I call bullshit. You have to provide evidence of your assertion. There's no footnotes saying that from the information of the CIA.

And even if you are correct, how do you explain all the other countries other than the U.K. that still kick the US's ass at having their babies survive?.

Come on bustunloose, where's the evidence for your assertion?

Did you hear that garbage on Fixed News or from the ass of Rush Limbaugh? ROFL

francisdesales| 3.3.13 @ 12:49AM

Yep. The British could not re-fight the Falkans war again if they wanted to. They are broke. Argentina should have just waited for these bone heads to just piss away their military while everyone gets "free" medical care and puts people in jail for defending their lives...

bustunloose| 3.1.13 @ 12:27PM

But they have nice busses and you don't have to buy car insurance. A paradise.

bustunloose| 3.1.13 @ 12:30PM

just can't afford a car. Nobody pays 35 even the Hollywood rich.

Stephie| 3.1.13 @ 4:27PM

New Zealand 40%

CJW| 3.1.13 @ 8:15PM

purp alert. purp trolling as arnie.

filbertinO.H.I.O| 3.2.13 @ 1:36PM

Hey Arnie, one day you, or a loved one, will be placed in one of the "dying pods" where gentle music will play while you slowly starve to death. Isn't collectivism fun?

Dom| 3.5.13 @ 12:15PM

Oh, Arnie, you forgot to add that you pay 70% taxes for this. Well, you probably don't, being a ward of the state, but those around you do.

Joellen| 3.1.13 @ 7:43AM

We have checked it out Arnie

it's been on the news for the past few years how

Europe is boiling over, riots, anarchy, the young cant get jobs,

Every day we hear how Greece, Spain, Italy, etc. are about to financially collapse,

Arnie you are either a dreamer or a liar about your true situation.

Just like obama, the truth will eventually come out

will you too be threatening someone because they exposed your lie?

Arnie| 3.1.13 @ 8:21AM

"Europe is boiling over, riots, anarchy, the young cant get jobs, "

This simply is not true. In fact, my wife and I have been offered multiple jobs in the last few years. A lot of the problems, and protests, of late in Europe are the result of the governments laying off people, and cutting wages and benefits, which has pushed it back into a small recession. The vast majority of Europe is experiencing small growth or stagnation, or just under zero negative growth. I know the U.S. media is pretty horrible when it comes to covering and reporting news about the rest of the world, so I don't blame you for getting the wrong impression.

Arnie| 3.1.13 @ 8:22AM

"Every day we hear how Greece, Spain, Italy, etc. are about to financially collapse,"

Yes, Greece and Spain are in pretty dire straits. Italy is in much better shape (although not strong by any means) than those other two actually. Italy's unemployment rate is half that of Spain or Greece.

So that's just 2 countries, with a total population of 58 million, out of an economic zone of 500 million.

Austria, Luxemburg, Denmark, Holland, Romania, Belgium, the Czech Republic, the United Kingdom, Germany, Norway, Iceland, and Sweden all of unemployment rates lower or similar to the U.S.

But yes, for the EU 27 countries, the total unemployment is 10.7%. That's hardly on the verge of anarchy. Let me remind you, Reagan had unemployment rates that high.

So judging all of Europe by the events in Greece and Spain is like saying California has a bad economy and many protests, and then saying all of the United States is in bad shape. Get my drift?

bustunloose| 3.1.13 @ 8:44AM

All those tiny countries with neg pop growth. Gonna work out great.

Purp| 3.1.13 @ 9:12AM

The only reason we don't as well is because of the "browning" of America, where whites are losing % of population and currently are in the minority of the newest generation. Enjoy the future.

markenoff| 3.1.13 @ 1:32PM

ANd what is the fastest growing demographic group in the EU? Not native Europeans.

bustunloose| 3.1.13 @ 3:40PM

Brown blue pink. If they have skill we need and gonna work or some capital and wanna put it to work, let them come in properly. I am open to some slots for people truly with not much going for them. But it has to be a low number-they have been the majority coming in for too long now.

CJW| 3.1.13 @ 8:16PM

Hey idiot Racist purpie,

You have a problem with the browning of America?

Purpie the Village Idiot posted:
1. "Hurricane Sandy and Chris Christie was the Lord's way of pressing his thumb on the scale to tilt in the direction of President Obama. It was His punishment of Republicans for their lying and trying to cheat (Voter Suppression) their way to political victory, while espousing faith, freedom and constitutional credentials."
2. purpie believes God killed over 100 persons and destroyed millions of dollars of property to help Obama win.
3. In Sept Purpie wrote that Amassador Stevens was at fault and caused his death.
4. Purpie also wrote that the unborn are biological entities not deserving of protection until God allows them to be born.
5. purpie believes that a 20% cut in the tax rate will INCREASE his 0% rate to 8%.
6. purpie also posted one of the female bloggers here should just lay back and enjoy the rape.
7. purpie is a racist who posted that "You can't even beat a black man....haha," implying blacks are inferior.
Purp-arnie represents the Loon Left that should be mocked and ridiculed, and not engaged in debate.

lost| 3.1.13 @ 3:06PM

Perhaps you should pay attention to the news in Europe. It would seem that Italy, France, Iceland, United Kingdom, Germany, Portugal and Belgium have had a few problems. So much for your everything is wonderful in Europe. I have left other countries that have had problems greater than a year ago.

Moe Blotz| 3.2.13 @ 1:02PM

You meant Luxembourg didn't you? Holland is not an independent country, but rather a subset of the Netherlands. The Czech Republic has a freedom loving populace and is not run as a socialist backwater as the other European market members are.

Purp| 3.1.13 @ 9:21AM

Honeychild, what do you think they hear about us? 20 kindergartners dead from mass shooting with military grade weapons, the United States on the verge of bankruptcy and the U.S. Congress is playing ego games while the country suffers, gays took over the military and Voting is about to be banned by the Supreme Court?
Is that your life? Is it?
Or is it just hype for ratings/sales of papers, ya think? Come on, doll... think

CJW| 3.1.13 @ 8:17PM

francisdesales| 3.3.13 @ 12:54AM

What happened in Norway???

Oh, yea, it was the gun's fault...

Obama is playing ego games, true. He gets his tax increases in January, and now wants more, telling federal agencies to "make 'em feel the pain"...

Gays aren't taking over the military, bud. And voting to be banned by the Supreme Court? Wow, talk about hype...

NE-Conservative| 3.1.13 @ 7:55AM

Arnie - having lived for a time in multiple European countries with the 'benefit' of government health plans as well as having close relatives and friends still living there - your little story is total BS. When they visit us they are amazed at the availability, access and quality of care we get here or at least what we used to get.

Arnie| 3.1.13 @ 7:59AM

My story is not BS. It is 100% true.

As for your family, which country did they come from, and when did they visit? If they came from Western, Central or Northern Europe, I find it hard to believe that they would be that impressed.

Do they know how much everything costs in the States?

Now if they came from some struggling Eastern European country in the last few decades, that would make sense.

Ron M.| 3.1.13 @ 8:29AM

Arnie, nothing is free, who's paying the taxes that fund your "free" meds. True costs for medical services in Europe are about the same as in the U.S. , just paid in a different manor.

Arnie| 3.1.13 @ 8:48AM

Yes, I agree. In the USA there is a more, screw the poor, charge the poor kind of attitude.

And as for true costs, yes, they are about the same, but many states and the U.S. government are barred because of lobbyist written legislation to negotiate prices for drugs. In Europe, they don't have this problem. A whole government in Europe can say "Look, accept our offer, or you'll lose access to our market of millions of people. What would you rather have?"

And yes, the procedures cost the same. But there is not so much profit bilking in Europe as in the USA, so the average Joe in America is paying 100 dollars for a 20 dollar procedure, so the insurance company, the hospital, and drug company execs can get huge bonuses, and the dividends pay out.

In Europe they just pay about 30 dollars, so the doctors and nurses can have salaries. See the difference.

Anyway, you need to read this article about the costs in the USA.

http://healthland.time.com/201.....z2LmFvH7xO

George S| 3.1.13 @ 10:19AM

Great article, if it only told the truth.

The reason why tylenol cost $1.50 a tablet in a hospital is not profit gouging but loss coverage. A hospital has to provide free emergency care (free if it turns out you cannot afford it). Where does the hospital get the money to pay the doctors and nurses and all the other costs associated with keeping an ER running? If a poor person comes into an ER and it turns out he has a serious illness or a complicated pregnancy, the hospital still has to treat them. The hospital then bills the state/federal Medicare system, which in turns takes months and only pays 40 cents on the dollar. If that. So, again, who reimburses the cost of that "free care"?

You do. Your insurance company is gouged by the hospital to cover the losses (by spreading the pain to the policy holders). Hence, the $1.49 for the tylenol. The $4,000 a day hospital room rental.

Why doesn't this happen in Europe? Because everyone is taxed every which way from high income taxes, excise taxes and VATs. There are no 47% non-tax paying-above-median-income earners. Everyone pays one way or another. Switzerland, the UK, Norway and Denmark (eg) have a much higher cost of living than New York City (one of the most expensive in the US). France, Italy, Austria, Sweden are about the same as New York City. All without the massive numbers of welfare recipients (rent controlled rich liberals included).

George S| 3.1.13 @ 10:20AM

Plus -- all (okay, most) the innovations in medicine originate in the United States so EU does not -- in addition to defense -- have to invest capital in mass market medical research.

That's the difference. Here, people receive medical care without incurring its direct cost. EU, it's free on one end but everyone pays on the other (much like unemployment insurance here in the US).

Since everyone here gets the best of care, someone has to pay. If the hard working employed person is to get a break on his policy, then someone else has to pick up the slack. That would be the typical Obama voter, and no way he's going to cough up taxes for medical care. It's his right.

This is why conservatives have a problem with 47% paying little or no income taxes -- it indirectly forces higher medical premiums on us working stiff productive class suckers.

irish19| 3.1.13 @ 11:39AM

Nice analysis. It won't make any difference to either of them, but it's a nice analysis nonetheless.

C. Vernon Crisler | 3.1.13 @ 4:08PM

George, you've given us a good example of real economic analysis.

buckeyeman| 3.1.13 @ 11:29AM

George, you just described "cost shifting". This has been going on for years. You're probably wasting your time trying to convince Arnie that free stuff isn't. All that Arnie really cares about is that SOMEBODY ELSE has to pay for HIS stuff.

Arnie's happy not having a car and living a small life. He thinks everyone should be happy living like him, but he doesn't realize that without rich people the entire economy and society turn out like Hungary in 1955. Equal level of misery works for him.

Arnie| 3.1.13 @ 11:44AM

Buckeyeman, you're just not that bright are you.

I know you don't have much exposure to other cultures, but in other countries people don't define their existence, or try to compensate for a small sense of worth like you do with your car, and perhaps your other possessions.

And in some cities in Europe, with their hundred year old small and winding streets, with virtually no parking spots, having a car can actually be a miserable experience.

The U.S. simply has more space....moron.
Anyway, I save 10K a year by living in Europe because getting to my job and around the city in 20 mins isn't dependent on one.

bustunloose| 3.1.13 @ 12:34PM

You don't have any disposable income to buy a YUGO. You have accepted serf status. You feel secure, ok.

Arnie| 3.1.13 @ 12:43PM

I have enough disposable income to buy another house.

Try again.

bustunloose| 3.1.13 @ 3:46PM

Where. Don't be so vague. Who has the trust fund you or your partner ?

bustunloose| 3.1.13 @ 10:35PM

Sure me too-just bought a farm house in Slovenia. 400 sg feet living space. A bit run down. Is that you next door the guy screaming cause he had to buy his own cough drops.

Stephie| 3.1.13 @ 4:37PM

This is just a difference in cultures Arnie. I've lived there and loved it but I love my life here with 5 acres where I can have my horse, 2 dogs and a cat, grow a garden and drive my Suburban. If I wanted your life, I would move back to Germany or northern Italy. I understand your way of life but trying to hoist EU style healthcare on to the US is going to be a flipping mess. People will die from the hapless govt. running it and the poor on Medicaid will be the hardest hit. The ones that the left professes to love the most. Bull.

Moe Blotz| 3.2.13 @ 1:13PM

Youse can find New York City residents who do not own a car and are just as happy as your liberal antagonist to use the public transportation system to move about. When I matriculated at a small college in PA, one of my acquaintances hailed from Manhattan and at nineteen years old had just acquired his first drivers licence. If youse head into the rural areas of the UK, you will find people just like you who want to own real estate and a car. The lack of land mass prohibits most of the population from owning a half acre, that is reserved for the Lords of the Manor.

Jimmyjames66| 3.2.13 @ 2:58PM

The Irony is that Obamacare addresses all of that bad behavior in the "Marketplace" you noted .
Hospitals know that there will be a minimum of Free riders because everyone has to become responsible for themselves, i.e.- become insured.
But you must not be for personal responsibility, no?

The last part of your post? Just baseless assertions.
Something I see all to much on here.
let's see some sources.

bustunloose| 3.1.13 @ 12:37PM

Our poor are the best off in the world. If we protected our borders over the years we'd lose 70 per cent of them.

Job| 3.1.13 @ 1:11PM

I don't get it i distinctly recall you telling someone sometime ago, if they didn't like some liberal policy to get out of the US.

Now it seems your already "out of the US" that don't make sense to me....because," come out of there if you don't like things", would be more truthful in that case.

NoGoBlue| 3.1.13 @ 3:25PM

I come from the Netherlands. Probably as good as it gets in Europe. It's better here.

HouTexan| 3.1.13 @ 8:07AM

A friend of mine had an insight on Leftist thinking that was so good I wish I could claim it.

Her remark on people who voted for Obama/Obamacare is that they are not going to wake up at 3 a.m. some day in the future, shaken by the realization they've helped destroy the healthcare system and severely damage their own children's futures; they're going to wake up one morning and realize...the pretty dream was destroyed by the Jews!

OP4| 3.1.13 @ 8:39AM

Talking about debates he has had, John Stossel said something like: "Conservatives are often wrong, but reasonable. Liberals are insane."

Purp| 3.1.13 @ 9:09AM

You could stop at "Conservatives are often wrong ... " . They are not reasonable - it's their way or the highway. Do you see a single Republican or Conservative anywhere that wants to compromise on anything? Especially with the Democrats?
When you find one, keep him - he's an exception.

Jeff1000| 3.1.13 @ 9:48AM

What idiot would compromise with destroying a country, with tyranny, with statism? To the highway with that.

Purp| 3.1.13 @ 12:48PM

Thank you for making my point!

Stephie| 3.1.13 @ 4:38PM

And you want tyranny and statism? Really?

OP4| 3.1.13 @ 9:57AM

Why would you compromise with insanity?

Purp| 3.1.13 @ 12:48PM

Thank YOU for making my point too!

bustunloose| 3.1.13 @ 3:49PM

Name me a comprimise democrat. Justt the liers who win in red states. that'll end sooner rather than later.

francisdesales| 3.3.13 @ 1:00AM

Yea, how about the fact that the republicans gave Obama his tax hike in January? And now he comes back for more, crying that the Republicans won't play nice. What an idiot.

HouTexan| 3.1.13 @ 11:39AM

Exactly. Add to that a tendency to find conspiracy (Big ____, "Wall Street", etc.) every time a foolish policy flops, and you have the Leftist mind to a t!

bustunloose| 3.1.13 @ 8:49AM

Since alot of those states are dying via population can we export our deadbeats to there lands ? now Romania has a better economy and healthcare than us . A clown is he.

Purp| 3.1.13 @ 9:06AM

That's been true for years... it will change under Obamacare, which I'm sure you know is not fully enacted yet.

Roscoe| 3.1.13 @ 11:08AM

Donna, is that you?
Purp to mechanic: My car's got this wicked shimmy, & horrible grinding noise above about 15mph.
Mechanic to Purp: How many miles on your car?
Purp: About 5.5K.
Mechanic: Don't worry about it & keep driving normally. It'll fix itself at about 10K.
Purp: Sounds good.

bustunloose| 3.1.13 @ 3:52PM

Romania ? You'd rather have brain surgery in Romania that USA ? Hey now I get it ! You have had brain surgery in Romania.

bustunloose| 3.1.13 @ 3:52PM

Romania ? You'd rather have brain surgery in Romania that USA ? Hey now I get it ! You have had brain surgery in Romania.

CJW| 3.1.13 @ 8:18PM

Purpie the Village Idiot posted:

1. "Hurricane Sandy and Chris Christie was the Lord's way of pressing his thumb on the scale to tilt in the direction of President Obama. It was His punishment of Republicans for their lying and trying to cheat (Voter Suppression) their way to political victory, while espousing faith, freedom and constitutional credentials."

2. purpie believes God killed over 100 persons and destroyed millions of dollars of property to help Obama win.

3. In Sept Purpie wrote that Amassador Stevens was at fault and caused his death.

4. Purpie also wrote that the unborn are biological entities not deserving of protection until God allows them to be born.

5. purpie believes that a 20% cut in the tax rate will INCREASE his 0% rate to 8%.

6. purpie also posted one of the female bloggers here should just lay back and enjoy the rape.

7. purpie is a racist who posted that "You can't even beat a black man....haha," implying blacks are inferior.

Purp-arnie represents the Loon Left that should be mocked and ridiculed, and not engaged in debate.

Jimmyjames66| 3.2.13 @ 3:05PM

Why is CJW allowed to spam this thread?

Albert Constantine Jr.| 3.1.13 @ 9:24AM

Somewhere along the line, the highly educated Donna Brazile will have to decide if it is price gauging or price-gouge that is forcing the costs of her premiums to go up.

John Navratil| 3.1.13 @ 9:48AM

If a Conservative is a Liberal who has been mugged, could someone please mug Donna Brazile.

rjh| 3.1.13 @ 11:08AM

She has already been mugged by obamacare. She is just too stupid to realize it.

C. Vernon Crisler | 3.1.13 @ 9:52AM

The answer is no: most liberals won't blame their own ideology. Some of them will undergo a de-conversion experience -- wherein they are mugged by reality -- but the majority will persist in their folly.

This is in part due to a perverse belief in their own superiority, but also because most liberals do not understand one of the most basic principle of economics: you can't just look at the surface results of a policy; you also have to look at the hidden effects of your policy. Liberals cannot seem to understand this principle, and they share this ignorance with most Americans.

Economic thinking is very hard. Much easier to think on the surface. So again, the answer is no. Shallow-minded liberals aren't going to change, no matter how deleterious the effects of their policies.

fmm| 3.1.13 @ 11:56AM

CVC - Arnie only parrots posts which he has no naswer for - it is a compliment.

Jimmyjames66| 3.2.13 @ 3:07PM

CVC.
Ad hom does not a very persuasive argument make.
Try making one.

Arnie| 3.1.13 @ 9:58AM

The answer is no: most conservatives won't blame their own ideology. Some of them will undergo a de-conversion experience -- wherein they are mugged by reality -- but the majority will persist in their folly.

This is in part due to a perverse belief in their own superiority, but also because most conservatives do not understand one of the most basic principle of economics: you can't just look at the surface results of a policy; you also have to look at the hidden effects of your policy. Conservatives cannot seem to understand this principle, and they share this ignorance with most Americans.

Economic thinking is very hard. Much easier to think on the surface. So again, the answer is no. Shallow-minded conservatives aren't going to change, no matter how deleterious the effects of their policies.

Fred the Cockatoo| 3.1.13 @ 10:25AM

Speaking of perverse beliefs in one's own superiority, Arnie must have moved back to this unnamed European country since last week, or is misusing tenses again:

Arnie| 2.22.13 @ 11:27AM

...

Anyway, I lived out in the world. I've lived in 4 countries, and several states in the U.S. I speak 3 languages, and have had friends from all over the world. And I worked on everything from a farm, to a kitchen, to a construction site, to high end I.T. I can tell you, this current crop of Republicans are on the wrong side of history and are destined to lose.

They better change, or they'll go the way of the Dodo bird.

Stephie| 3.1.13 @ 4:42PM

I am coming to agree with you. Our Republican governor here in VA just sold us out this past week by giving us the biggest tax hike in decades.
It appears that the difference in the parties is growing fainter by the year.

Jimmyjames66| 3.2.13 @ 4:03PM

Looks like he raised your sales tax from 5.0 to 5.3 and to 6.0 in the wealthy areas.Ah, but why didn't you tell us that he CUT your Gas tax out completely and is putting a fee on hybrid vehicles? Did you even know any details of the legislation ?

But don't expect your gas prices to go down.
Those loyal to America, Transnational gas suppliers will keep your price 5 cents less than SC's just like before.
Just like a Republican, a give away to the wealthy oil industry.

George S| 3.1.13 @ 10:57AM

Help me understand economics:

Can you tell me one thing that is produced by the labor of people that is free? That is, people work to make it happen and are not compensated for it.

Can you explain how if something is free you can get it when you want it, when you want it, and as much of it you want? Can you give me an example of such a good or service? And if something such as medical care is free, why would people wait to use it instead of using it whenever they wanted without impacting anyone else from getting it? How does that reduce demand for medical care? Why would the law of supply/demand/price not apply?

What is the definition of slavery?

Thanking you in advance for the education.

buckeyeman| 3.1.13 @ 11:55AM

Can I help, George? I've taken risks with my money, worked long, long hours, paid attention to what I was doing, and now employ about 70 people. I'm rich. I have a Maserati, Mercedes, Audi, and a yacht that has twin Man 900HP diesel engines. I have lots of other stuff but those I just mentioned are made in Europe.

But Arnie has no car, rides government subsidized public transportation, and believes healthcare is free (I'm a retired general surgeon so I'm intrigued by that concept).

Because of people like me there are JOBS in the factories that make Maseratis, Mercedes, Audis, and yachts with Man 900 HP diesel engines. My wealth also supports innumerable wasteful public works projects which employ and are run be people like Arnie.

Because of people like Arnie we have .............. ? Arnie can't even support himself (or he wouldn't need all that subsidization). We do have lots of tax eaters like Arnie who bitch about those of us who make it all possible.

I speak some French, Norwegian, German, Italian, Japanese, Spanish, Romanian, and Lakota (in decreasing order of proficiency) so I dispute Arnie's self-perceived moral superiority 'cause he can find the "loo" in seven countries. Ok, so I don't have any friends but what the hell does that have to do with anything economic?? So Arnie, look this one up - Dra til helvete, tykk i hodet.

I'm going fishing. By myself.

Arnie| 3.1.13 @ 12:28PM

HA! You have no friends. Makes sense, since you're an asshole and all. Have fun talking to the fish. Anyway, have fun being rich and dying alone.

"I speak some French, Norwegian, German, Italian, Japanese, Spanish, Romanian, and Lakota"

I call bullshit. It's kinda hard to speak languages when you don't have friends to speak with. I bet you know jack shit in these languages. Probably not better than an A1 level and can't even carry a conversation.

Jebo ti pas mater !

C. Vernon Crisler | 3.1.13 @ 2:49PM

How do you say "eff off" in Sumerian?

bustunloose| 3.1.13 @ 10:44PM

There it is.

Jimmyjames66| 3.2.13 @ 4:06PM

You are also a sociopath.
Good luck when Jesus comes.

C. Vernon Crisler | 3.1.13 @ 11:34AM

Arnie the troll, in trying to reflect my argument, said that CONSERVATIVES don't understand the economic principle of looking beyond the surface to the hidden effects of policies. When Arnie the troll actually learns how to think like a real economist, or learns how to think at all, he'll understand the absurdity of such a claim. Hello, ever heard of Mises, Hayek?

Arnie| 3.1.13 @ 11:50AM

Ever heard of Keynes, Krugman, Stiglitz????

They've been more predictive of economies than those hacks you mentioned.

fmm| 3.1.13 @ 12:00PM

Truly funny - Keynes even argues with himself.

C. Vernon Crisler | 3.1.13 @ 12:16PM

Laugh! Candy Keynes and Thugman are not real economists. They are anti-economists.

Stiglitz? An old Clinton hack? Pleeeaase.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blo.....30960.html

Ich Weis| 3.1.13 @ 3:16PM

Yeah, Arnie - Krugman's predicted 7 of the last 2 recessions. Nice try.

Ich Weis| 3.1.13 @ 3:31PM

Arnie, you're a standard puff-troll. On one hand you say conservatives think they're morally superior and on the other, you speak as a liberal who is morally superior because as you said, your opposition is, "shallow." Aren't you guys supposed to be full of brotherly love like St. Francis instead of the scorn sandwich smothered in hypocrisy sauces like Savonarola?
And Hayek was dead on in predicting the cesspit you Brits have become. I've lived there - recently. You're taxed way more than we are. Even at the lower ends. You're way more racist than we've ever been. (Yeah, I've lived around London, thank God for the M4 on a good day.) Class is still an issue among your whitest of whites with bad teeth. And you do have more deaths in your hospitals thanks to the ineptitude of your system. Our deaths are related to other factors. Perhaps you've heard of the CDC, where we manage many of these statistics and how we measure them as opposed to the way the NHS inflicts them. Sorry, old chap. You're still full of it. Face east and pray 5 times a day, Arnie; it's your future, not ours.

bustunloose| 3.1.13 @ 3:58PM

Why are you so worked up over America. Really. Mind your own garden. You have a mess to deal with. Here we will work it out. The 10th ammendment will prevail on way or another.I think you are wanting some world tax for America to pay to bail out your sorry asses. Drop dead.

Moe Blotz| 3.2.13 @ 1:26PM

John Maynard Keynes is considered to be the pre-eminent twentieth century economist because he challenged the current economic theories of his time. Keynes' theories did not all work in practice, but that is because the right system has not perfected the right technique of implementation. The failure of Keynesian theory when applied to a viable economic system never proved to the looney left that the author could be in error.

Brubaker| 3.1.13 @ 10:43AM

"I often question whether liberals like Donna Brazile ever will place blame on their own failed policies and how they hurt the very people they promise to protect...."

That's not likely. Liberals seem incapable of grasping the concept of cause and effect. In their world, tax increases never have any adverse effect. Mandating that 26-year old "children" remain on their parents healthcare policies is a total freebie. Blocking development of energy resources has no connection to a shortage of energy resources. The list goes on, seemingly without end.

The only way to stop the madness is to remove liberals from the reins of power. Sadly, the good guys aren't doing too well in that regard.

capatolistmom| 3.1.13 @ 11:31AM

I enjoy listening to Donna, she is a very goo example of an uninformed voter!!! She believed what they said and now is seeing what they do!!! What did she think a medical device tax was going to do to the cost of healthcare?? That medical device tax applies to Braces for your kids teeth, sutures for wounds, not just implants!!! What did she think care for everyone was going to cost - did she think it was going to be free??? These insurance companies aren't going to go away, they are public companies that need to make a profit. I know a bad word for the likes of Donna - but hear is a thought (no profit - no taxes) when are the libs going to make the connection? Hear's anotherone No jobs, no incomes to tax!!! This economy isn't going to grow until these libs get out of the way!!!! Wait until she gets a taste of capatitated healthcare!!!! Getting a little old there Donna - you might not be a "good" investment for the hip replacement, knee replacement or even a new heart!!!! Just wait 6 months and a pannel of unelected burocrats will let you know!!! Just look at how good the panel is over at the NLRB!!!

Dave Williams| 3.1.13 @ 12:41PM

You'll see the sun come up in the west before an idiot leftist ideologue like Brazzie admits that leftist policies are failures. The INTENTION is so noble....and after all, we lefties are the GOOD people...they just HAVE to work, snivel, whine.....meanwhile, REAL Americans have to suffer the consequences of these moronic narcissists. SUFFER, bee-hatch!!!!

markenoff| 3.1.13 @ 1:27PM

Donna Brazile is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.

stephen brown| 3.1.13 @ 7:55PM

You must be a complete idiot.

markenoff| 3.3.13 @ 12:00AM

You must be too dense to recognize sarcasm. It should be obvious since it is dressed as hyperbole.

Dodd2| 3.1.13 @ 2:20PM

Brazile was never anything but a leftwing dingbat.

Even now the woman is too stupid to put two and two together regarding Obamacare.,

Stephie| 3.1.13 @ 4:46PM

That would mean admitting that she was wrong about her messiah.

markenoff| 3.3.13 @ 12:01AM

2 + 2? That's they old math. Today's new liberal math: 1 homo + 1 homo = marriage. Get with the program.

NoGoBlue| 3.1.13 @ 3:21PM

It's price gouging not gauging. Why can't she spell?

stephen brown| 3.1.13 @ 7:54PM

Brazile has always been a buffoon...welcome to liberal utopia you moonbat you !

Russel| 3.1.13 @ 9:10PM

Donna, Sheila and Maxine . Stretch wire between them and you'd have a fence .

bustunloose| 3.1.13 @ 10:42PM

If Donna wants the kind of medical we used to get she'd better include concierge medicine in her budget. Otherwise she'll be waiting in line behind Pedro and Maria and their bambinos.

markenoff| 3.3.13 @ 12:03AM

Stand them next to each other and you'd have a wall. Send them to the southern border.

bustunloose| 3.1.13 @ 10:50PM

Last call. Rory Mcillroy dropped out of PGA tour-bad wisdom. Says he'll be back once his turn comes up in NHS que-is that the word the use ? Millionaire like Arnie and he still won't pay. Wants it free or nothing at all. It is a DNA thing. gotta be.

bustunloose| 3.1.13 @ 10:51PM

Wisdom tooth.

homme nike air max BW | 3.2.13 @ 12:20AM

people like Brazile. I also question if any liberal has ever passed a high school economics or math class…or in Michael Moore’s case, gym.

BD57| 3.2.13 @ 4:44PM

"I often question whether liberals like Donna Brazile ever will place blame on their own failed policies and how they hurt the very people they promise to protect: seniors, women, minorities… people like Brazile."

You shouldn't - the answer never changes ... "No."

The Left NEVER, EVER questions its religion ...

Marc Jeric| 3.3.13 @ 2:31PM

In my long life (I am aformer refugee from a communist hell) I worked in France, Mexico, Brazil, and Spain - and was a witness to their national health care system; it stinks! at least for ordinary people it does. every one of these health care systems is a two-tier systems; 1) for the so-called "cadres" i.e. government employees, professors, intellectuals, supervisors, and 2) for the so-called inferiors, or "racaille" in French.

hrgfue | 3.3.13 @ 10:38PM

thank you for your New post on that site.which is the best blog for us.we are enjoy it and will show them to everyone.

ONTIME| 3.8.13 @ 3:03PM

Wait until the Death Panel's tell libs such as her they are no longer of value and need to be put to rest...BONG!

polijunkie100| 3.8.13 @ 10:51PM

Schadenfreude is a bad thing to indulge. Still, in Brazile's case, I just can't help it...

drmaddogs| 3.9.13 @ 5:58AM

Does this woman really believe Obamacare will force a reduction in her premiums? Does she understand the premise of Obamacare is not a single payer system, that there is no force on the face of the planet that can deny private businesses to set rates under Obamacare?
Another person not willing to understand Obamacare was halfway to socialized medicine and fully implemented will still be only halfway socialized.
But it is a good excuse to raise rates and they won't come down.

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