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The Obama Watch
Withdrawal Toward What?
It won’t produce the domestic surge the president needs above all else.
President Obama isn’t terribly concerned with winning wars.
In his speech last night, Obama talked about “our effort to wind down this war,” “responsibly end[ing] these wars,” and “tak[ing] comfort in knowing that the tide of war is receding.” He did not use the words “win” or “winning”; the word “victory” appeared only in a reference to the killing of Osama bin Laden.
The stylistic decision is revealing; ideologically and temperamentally, Obama is still not entirely comfortable as a war president. He is still naturally attracted to the political appeals to war-weariness that his 2008 campaign was largely built on.
Substantively, this has led him to a decision that carries some real risks. He isn’t rejecting the counterinsurgency strategy that General David Petraeus has pursuing in Afghanistan, but he is pulling troops out a bit faster than Petraeus would prefer. That will make the task of leaving behind an Afghan force capable of securing the gains U.S. forces have made somewhat more difficult, and Obama’s decision to announce the withdrawal timeline may make it harder to press for what he calls “initiatives that reconcile the Afghan people, including the Taliban.”
But last night’s speech wasn’t about substance, it was about politics. Consider this passage, dropped into a speech about foreign policy:
Above all, we are a nation whose strength abroad has been anchored in opportunity for our citizens at home. Over the last decade, we have spent a trillion dollars on war, at a time of rising debt and hard economic times. Now, we must invest in America’s greatest resource — our people. We must unleash innovation that creates new jobs and industry, while living within our means. We must rebuild our infrastructure and find new and clean sources of energy. And most of all, after a decade of passionate debate, we must recapture the common purpose that we shared at the beginning of this time of war. For our nation draws strength from our differences, and when our union is strong no hill is too steep and no horizon is beyond our reach.
America, it is time to focus on nation building here at home.
The message is clear: Let’s switch to talking about domestic politics. (With meaningless Tom Friedman-approved platitudes.)
Obama should be careful what he wishes for. After all, investing in industry and infrastructure and clean energy and so forth was supposed to be what his 2009 stimulus was all about, and, based on the terms set by Obama’s own advisers, it has been a spectacular failure. As the economy sank further, Obama put all his energy into a deeply unpopular overhaul of the nation’s healthcare system. If he wants to make the 2012 election about that record, I’m sure the Republican nominee will be happy to oblige him.
About the Author
John Tabin is a frequent contributor to The American Spectator online.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (134) | Leave a comment
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Michael Tomlinson| 6.23.11 @ 6:24AM
Snatching Defeat from the Jaws of Victory.
lydia | 6.23.11 @ 10:14AM
what will we get from Mohamed Karzai and the Afghan people, for 10 years of dead and severely wounded sons, daughters, husbands, wives, uncles, aunts, and cousins.
lydia | 6.23.11 @ 10:15AM
Did anyone think this would end well with the decisions being made by the college professor, community organizer, affirmative action super-star?
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SpiralArchitect| 6.23.11 @ 12:09PM
Pimpin' a date on TAS (??) - freak!
Drunken Sailor| 6.23.11 @ 1:54PM
SpamBot 3.0
Bob From District 9| 6.23.11 @ 3:49PM
You even had to put in a personal add?
This was doomed when draft dodger Cheney and AWOL Bush took us into Iraq, and diverted from Afghanistan.
Obama's real failing is in not pulling out of Iraq the first year. He gave in too much to the republicans, and all else follows from that.
Kishego| 6.23.11 @ 4:23PM
So, in other words, he's a pathetic loser and a wimp.
I agree.
DanMingo| 6.24.11 @ 2:23PM
No! Just a Republican pretending to be a Democrat.
Fred from District 8| 6.23.11 @ 5:15PM
What is your military record, Bob.
W| 6.23.11 @ 8:50PM
Bob, I assume you voted for Bill Clinton, who responded to his draft letter and served honorably in the armed forces, and you again voted for Jean Kerrey, who suffered those terrible,severe injuries but chose to stay with his crew, and upon return to the USA always spoke in support of the troops and never slandered the troops......
Controse| 6.23.11 @ 10:55PM
What the hell is this ad for a dating web site doing here at TAS? Where is the site administrator anyway?
old white guy| 6.24.11 @ 2:32PM
call me babe. i am an old guy in real good shape and need a sugar sweetie.
RCV| 6.23.11 @ 5:55PM
We didn't go into Afghanistan for Karzai or the Afghan people. We went in there to get the people who plotted and carried out the 9/11 attacks, and with the death of Bin Laden, we've gotten most all of them. As anyone who has read the history of the region for the past 200 years knows, the area is ungovernable and unconquerable.
old white guy| 6.24.11 @ 2:30PM
and we thought that russia was a problem there. get the h-ll out and let them kill their women and children, let them kill each other and stop all immigration from all islamic countries. when will the west get their collective heads out and accept the truth. the truth being that islam is as evil and as dangerous as national socialism , nazi for short.
Alan Brooks| 6.23.11 @ 6:17PM
The war(s) weren't Obama's doing in the first place, any more than Nixon got us into 'Nam. But your mistake is think people are concerned about Obama's predecessor; no, that was two 1/2 years ago- today the worry is what sort of Republican nominee will be happy to oblige the god of post-Reagan GOP statism masquerading as conservatism.
Just thank God on bended knee that McCain isn't president.
Alan Brooks| 6.23.11 @ 6:44PM
"your mistake is thinking people are concerned about Obama's predecessor"
We are concerned about NEXT year,
not 2001- '09
Darin| 6.23.11 @ 6:49AM
Look for this to be treated like the "Cold War Surplus" in the early 90's. Once the Soviet Union imploded, there was a big drawdown in the military, with an associated reduction in force and cutting of funds for weapon systems. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have levied extreme wear on both our people and equipment. People can recover with rest, but equipment needs to be repaired or replaced. The maintenance budgets have taken a hit over the years, and look for this to continue as the politicians strive to spend the "savings" from a draw-down to buy the next election. And the military will continue to fly 50-year-old aircraft and maintain armored vehicles with spit and bailing wire.
Michael Tomlinson| 6.23.11 @ 7:14AM
Darin, using Osama bin Laden's fatwa’s as a model for jihadist thinking, this is a statement that America is weak and ripe for another “wakeup call.”
Bob From District 9| 6.23.11 @ 3:55PM
List of all post WWII democrats to reduce military spending.
" "
List of all post WWII republicans who did not reduce military spending.
"Reagan and Bush II"
Note that Reagan and Bush II cut taxes, increased spending, and *MULTIPLIED* the national debt. No other post WWII president did that. Not even LBJ with guns and butter.
Paul| 6.23.11 @ 7:02AM
Did anyone think this would end well with the decisions being made by the college professor, community organizer, affirmative action super-star?
God bless the men & ladies in the field.
Gary| 6.23.11 @ 7:09AM
Amen to that!
Gary| 6.23.11 @ 7:09AM
He's a hollowed-out Marxist. His message is used up. Now, he just says stuff.
SpiralArchitect| 6.23.11 @ 12:15PM
You have just killed OBL, entered a non hostile non-war in Lybia along with "covert air-strikes" in Yeman & have thousands of troops stomping out a victory in Afgan...
As leader of the free world, mr President, what will you do now?
Oh, pull out troops from the one successful ongoing campaign you have?
Interesting. Well, I guess there must be some way to allow the evil Al Queda group to re-boot and regain their strenght after OBL's demise.
Al Adab| 6.23.11 @ 1:06PM
As you note and your analysis implies, the Left has no concept of Victory. To them all military action is useless but they use it (ala Bosnia, now Libya) to prop up political point for themselves. The concept of War and the end result of Victory are things they abhore. As a result we lose lives and spend treasure while producing nothing. Now, similarly, the
nation building" concept is equally flawed. Such an event can only follow Victory as it did in Japan, which BTW is the only example of successful occupation in all of history. Reconstruction is a viable goal, turning tribal societies in functioning modern states is quite another and not one which can in any liklihood be realized.
Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 6.23.11 @ 7:09AM
The President stated "I" a dozen times during his speech and never gave credit where credit is due, to Gen. Petraeus. Yes, he's a clod.
Behind the scenes many Republicans are calling for and end to this war and the War in Iraq, and the engagement in Libya.
This will not be a big issue in the next election. Move on to jobs.
Michael Tomlinson| 6.23.11 @ 7:17AM
With the fall of Egypt to Muslim fundamentalists and a resurgent Islamic imperialism this will be a future political issue.
drudge ette obama| 6.23.11 @ 7:23AM
If I had to hear Obama say Tally-bahn one more time. I started humming "Candy-Man" (the world's most addictive tune) as he kept repeating Tally-bahn over and over. It a much more distracting that the generous sprinkling of Obama's first person singulars.
The blood of thousands of Afghans will be on Obama's thin-fingered hands as he extricates American soldiers from this country. For what reason were we there? What has changed? Certainly it wasn't the capture of bin Laden in Pakistan.
Well, if he had given credit to the men and women in the field and to Gen. Petraeus, it would have sounded faked and forced. Better to have ignored them entirely and link himself to West Point, as if that gives him military gravitas.
Next on to Chicago, where he will bring the NATO G-8 people. That will be one hell of a show with all the demonstrations and nut-cases coming from all around. Fish-Ballet Rahm will be whacking environmentalist moles nonstop.
Patzer| 6.23.11 @ 8:40AM
The world's most addictive tune is either Rebecca Black's egregious "Friday" or Iggy Pop's "Butt Town."
Anita| 6.23.11 @ 11:49AM
R E S P E C T
Most addictive
W| 6.23.11 @ 1:33PM
obama is thinking of the banana song by harry belafonte
Thomas Paine| 6.23.11 @ 3:49PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW4sJ7YKY8c
David T| 6.23.11 @ 4:46PM
Tally-bahn rhymes with Pahky-stahn
JF| 6.23.11 @ 3:52PM
The troop drawdown will affect jobs - negatively. Remember the recessions and stagflation that followed the end of WWII, Korea and Viet Nam? Another Obama-caused disaster to hit the U.S.
Bob From District 9| 6.23.11 @ 3:58PM
How many Americans do you want to see die to keep those jobs going?
I won't ask about Afghan or Iraqis, they don't matter to right wingers.
W| 6.23.11 @ 5:17PM
Are you the designated left wing loon troll for the day? Got your talking points from SEIU, why don't you just put them out at once and go back under your rock.
Stephanie| 6.23.11 @ 7:21AM
Glad I missed his "all about me " lecture last night. Who writes his speeches for goodness sake!
drudge ette obama| 6.23.11 @ 7:25AM
Charles Manson, when he has paper and a pen.
The Bishop| 6.23.11 @ 7:37AM
Who wouldn't follow Commander Turd into battle? The man is awe-inspiring. The first person singular never had a better friend. (Now I will go throw up a little more.)
Bob From District 9| 6.23.11 @ 3:59PM
It bothers you to see someone take responsibility for a change? No wonder you loved Bush so much.
The Bishop| 6.23.11 @ 4:42PM
Good one, Bob. Now put your aluminum foil hat back on.
Jack Davis| 6.23.11 @ 4:54PM
LOL, Bishop! Great comment about the hat!
Bumr50| 6.23.11 @ 7:48AM
-"Obama is still not entirely comfortable as a war president."
With five wars on the burner, he's like a restaurant chef not entirely comfortable with cooking.
Rick V.| 6.23.11 @ 9:50AM
LMAO - Bumr, that was a gem.
Maddox| 6.23.11 @ 9:59AM
More like a dishwasher trying to make a seven course dinner while really thinking about how to get a contract for 4 more years on the job with a raise.
Mimi| 6.23.11 @ 7:54AM
He knows he's "King of the Hill" only he can throw snowballs down the Hill, He's the boss, and calls the shots and "I", "I", "I" have an election to win! God almighty when will the games...( power for politics) end!
We all want the war to end...it stinks, and were sick of it....But the RIGHT way. Not to listen to the GENERALS is reckless. The risk of this will be too much for America to bear...If one hair of ONE of our kids over there is HARMED due to this...Obama will pay a dear price...This ain't a snowball fight!
Intelligent Design| 6.23.11 @ 8:01AM
We should get out of Afghanistan, and Iraq, and Libya. But Obama's motivation has nothing to do with whether our strategic objectives have been met (they are not even defined). No, his motivation is to gather more votes in 2012, and in the process he will probably put more of our soldiers' lives at risk.
Ironically, the public doesn't even have Afghanistan, Iraq, or Libya in the front of their brains. There is no draft, the soldiers are all volunteers, so the masses are not engaged. The economy and lack of jobs will throw Obama into the garbage truck of history.
RCV| 6.23.11 @ 6:00PM
If you're complaining about going into Iraq and Afghanistan without clear objectives, you're complaining about the wrong guy. What Obama's done has been to extricate us from these messes in as orderly and honorable a fashion as possible, as well as finally locate and kill the man who started all this. You can blame the guy you voted for the mess, buddy.
W| 6.23.11 @ 8:12AM
It is not a question of intervention vs. non-intervention. We will support intervention in a just cause to protect our interests where the president obtains congressional approval and then fights to win quickly and decisevely. But the problem has been wars like Iraq and Afghanistan that morph into nation building, where Obama does not want to win. Or Libya,where nobody can say what is our interest. Some here have said our interest is to kill Quadaffi for the disco bombing and Lockerbie bombing twenty five years ago. But Obama did not say that is our reason for bombing Libya. He said our reason is to help the rebels. Why do we have to help rebels we do not even know if they like us?
And of course, we have Vietnam, where LBJ played politics micromanaged the war, and he and McNamara did not want to win.
Bush initially explained Afghanistan as part of the war on terror, and everyone supported it. But we should have left in 2002 when we defeated the Taliban. After that it was the same tired nation builidng. And we should have left Iraq after we captured Saddam.
We are bogged down in this nation building and it is causing the increase in the non-intervention.
Just finished a terrific biography of General LeMay, who directed the bombing of Germany and Japan. He also lead by flying the bomber in the lead position. His theory was like Sherman and Patton, kill as many of the enemy as quickly as possible to win. This will shorten the war and save lives in the long run
Mimi| 6.23.11 @ 8:41AM
Tell me....What if he said in his speech...There is a change in strategy....for the next 6 weeks we will use all our power to defeat this enemy..then we will leave as VICTORS ! Over...DONE !
Sherman, Patton And Lemay....I'm dreaming, the 2008 election didn't HAPPEN!
WOW save lives....What's wrong with that!!!
W| 6.23.11 @ 10:25AM
Obama uses words such as "winding down," never uses the word Victory. He cannot even say we have hostilities in Libya, it is some sort of Nato "action." The only times he uses the words "win" and "beat" is when he is attacking conservatives republicans.
Bill| 6.23.11 @ 3:23PM
"Kinetic action."
What crap. Worse than "self-actualization."
david Heisch| 6.23.11 @ 5:45PM
Watching Obama speechify is as cringe-inducing
as the masturbation scene in "Boogie Nights"...
if you saw the movie you know how that ended.
TOAST IN 2012.
RCV| 6.23.11 @ 6:03PM
If "saying we will use all out power to defeat this enemy" was all it took, Mimi, this war would have been over 10 years ago. The world isn't that simple. People have tried to fight guerrilla wars in Afghanistan for 200 years with the same result.
Michael Tomlinson| 6.23.11 @ 8:45AM
W this is the logic that led us to leave Afghanistan after the CIA defeated the Soviets there. Had we stayed and provided guidance the Taliban may have been a non-starter, al Qaeda an idea in the demented mind of Osama, etc... As for Iraq how many conservatives grumble that Bush 41 didn't finish the job in '91? Who do you suggest would have taken over if we'd booted Saddam and left? Hell, if we really want to carp at someone we should be angry with Reagan. He not only didn’t avenge our Marines in Lebanon by killing thousands of proto-Hezbollah Shiites, but he stopped the slaughter of the Iran-Iraq war. Deranged Muslims killing fanatical Muslims is a beautiful thing.
Why didn't we cut out of Europe and Asia after WW II? We realized the alternative was worse than staying. So we stayed in nations without democratic traditions and rebuilt them into the image we wanted.
I'd suggest that America's failure to do adequate nation building during our banana wars laid the foundation for the rise of Marxism and liberation theology in Latin America. Would it have been so bad to have the Marines helping rebuild and guide Haiti and Nicaragua down a path to true democracy? The strategy of the strongman or “he’s our son-of-a-bitch” did not pay off as well as the Marshall Plan and nation building in Germany, Japan and South Korea.
Do we need to avoid the jingoism of Bill Clinton and Barack Obama on behalf of American hating Muslims? Yes. We might even want to rethink our strategy in the Middle East and treat most Muslim states as enemies, but that can’t happen until we drill for our own oil, build bigger and better refineries, mine for more coal, use our own natural gas and build better and safer nuclear plants while disposing of the waste at Yucca Mountain to piss off Harry Reid and the Californians trying to take over Nevada.
The Big E| 6.23.11 @ 9:33AM
With all due respect Mr. Tomlinson, your analogy of Iraq/Afghanistan to Europe post WWII is completely incorrect.
First, while it is true that there was only a limited history of democracy in Germany, the fact is there WAS a history of democracy. In fact, Hitler himself rose to power through a democratic process.
In both Afghanistan and Iraq, there is not only NO history of democracy whatsoever, but the prevailing religion/ideology, i.e. Islam, is four-square against democracy in any sense which would be recognizable to us.
Second, Germany was German, and filled with Germans. The German people had a common history, culture, language, etc., and had those things common for a thousand years even before Germany became a unified nation. If you asked a citizen of Germany to identify his heritage in the immediate aftermath of WWII (or in the build up to WWII), he would have said he was German. If you asked him where his loyalties lay, he would have said with Germany.
Again, that is not the case in either Iraq or (especially) Afghanistan. Neither of these countries are based on a unified cultural or ethnic history. Neither of them existed prior to 1919 and the break-up of the Ottoman Empire following WWI. If you ask a citizen of Iraq to identify his heritage, he may say he's Iraqi, but he's just as likely to say he's Kurdish, or Sunni, or Shia. His loyalties likewise would be first with other Kurds, or Sunnis or Shia, not with Iraq.
With Afghanistan, the situation is even more extreme. An Afghan citizen will identify his heritage with his tribe, not as an Afghan (unless he is of the Pastun tribe, since Afghan is another word for Pashtun. But even then, he will probably be referring solely to his tribe, not to the Afghan nation as a whole), and his loyalty will be first to his tribe, not to Afghanistan.
Democracy as we know it is an almost exclusively Western institution, built upon the traditions, history, and religious and secular philosophy of the West built up over 3000 years or so. Germany shared those traditions, that history, and that philosophy with us and with the rest of Europe. They were a Western country that went astray. All we did was guide them back into the fold.
What about Japan, you say? Japan's history and culture is uniquely homogeneous. The exact OPPOSITE of what you find in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Japanese have been Japanese for over a thousand years, and their culture urges them put the interest of the Japanese as a whole over and above even their own personal interest. Again, the exact OPPOSITE of the situation in Iraq and Afghanistan, which is rife with secular paranoia and strife among a variety of ethnic groups who hold no allegiance to anyone but themselves.
We cannot build a Western style democracy in a country with no Western tradition whatsoever. We are deluding ourselves if we think we can.
IQ al Rassooli | 6.23.11 @ 7:21PM
Mr Big E
Your assessment and reasoning based on knowledge is the best comment I have read so far.
Since I am from Iraq, your comment that Iraq and Afghanistan are NOT nations as those in Europe is perfectly correct.
Most important of all are the FACTS:
1 There are 57 Muslim majority states in the world NOT one of them is truly Democratic
2 The reason they cannot EVER be Democratic is because they follow Sharia which accepts ONLT Allah's law.
3 The concept of democracy does not exist among the Arabs and therefore there is no Arabic word denoting such a concept (they use the loan word demoqratiyyah) instead
4 Sharia and Democracy is an OXYMORON. Sharia is the antithesis of Democracy
5 Obama is a man with a THIRD world mind set. He is literally turning the USA into a Banana Republic with very few (if any) friends
6 The Muslim Brotherhood will take over in Egypt, Libya, Yemen and all other Arab countries that woill allow them to participate in this illusury 'Arab Spring'
7 The Taliban will take over in Afghanistan within a few months after the last American leaves (if not before)
8 Because of Obama's knee jerk foreign policies, the Usa and the West will face even worst acts of terror than have so far occured
9 Islam thrives on plundering the weak, a policy that was started by Muhammad 1400 years ago
10 If Obama is re elected, the lights of freedom will be extinguished inexorably all over the world because what has kept the world SAFE in the last 100 years has been a strong and powerful America
W| 6.23.11 @ 10:21AM
Mr. Tomlinson, you raise good points. But in WWII we defeated and destroyed Germany and Japan. We then imposed our will. MacArthur wrote the constitution for Japan, and ruled the country for five years.
Afghanistan is a mess. There is no other description. We cannot stay in every disfunctional muslim country. The money for the terrorist attacks comes from Saudi Arabia and Iran and Syria. That is the source. While we cannot invade those countries we should do more to freeze the funding. One insane idea is for us to drill for oil here in Alaska and the Gulf, and stop sending money to the Saudis. We are funding our own destruction. But obama and the dems are more concerned about the "pristine" areas of Alaska.
Michael Tomlinson| 6.23.11 @ 11:29AM
“The Big E” you do have a point there was a period (but no tradition) after WW I when a promising democracy existed in Germany, but instead of practicing “nation building” the victorious allies worked against or ignored it and could be accused of facilitating the rise of Adolph Hitler. As I suggested there was a better alternative and it is sad we only learned that after another bloodier world war.
Germany prior the unification of Bismarck in 1871 was a series of kingdoms, principalities, autocratic states, etc. that were compelled, coerced and cajoled into unifying with Prussia. They shared a similar language, but did not share the same religion (Lutheran, Roman Catholic, a smattering of smaller Christian sects and Jews who were not as amenable to one another as they are today) or even culture – Bavaria for generations was more closely aligned with Austria. There were ethnic minorities in Germany, but Adolph Hitler and his native Germans effectively ethnically cleansed their country before 1945 so I’m sure you’d find “if you asked a citizen of Germany to identify his heritage in the immediate aftermath of WWII . . . he would have said he was German.”
Iraq is an Islamic nation primarily Sunni and Shia/Shiite. Like Germany there is one dominant ethnic group in the country Arabs, but there are others – Kurds, Turkmen, Assyrians, etc… (Saddam Hussein who admired Hitler was not as effective as him thanks to the US). Most speak Arabic and are Muslims too. Having been in Iraq I can attest to the fact that surprisingly the majority of Arab Iraqis (Sunni and Shia) if asked will tell you they’re Iraqis and then identify their sect of Islam (this doesn’t hold true with the Kurds, but Woodrow Wilson and the allies screwed them out of their country at the end of WW I). There are a lot of myths about Iraq that have been spread by the Joe Biden and Lew Rockwell schools of thought.
If you would read carefully I never advocated a Western style democracy in Iraq or Afghanistan. But you did a nice job of putting up a “straw man” and knocking him down. Obama couldn’t have done a better job. I did say, “Why didn't we cut out of Europe and Asia after WW II? We realized the alternative was worse than staying. So we stayed in nations without democratic traditions and rebuilt them into the image we wanted.” A bit different than the dichotomy you’ve created. I’m concerned with the alternative in Iraq and Afghanistan if we follow yours and Obama’s thinking.
Iraq is a young, struggling and imperfect democracy, but surprisingly vibrant. Is it flawed? Yes. Religious liberty is basically non-existent. Is its democratic government corrupt? Is Chicago’s? Is the Obama administration? But they are on the right path – the democratic path and like us and our creations in Germany, Japan and South Korea (who we did not force into our exact mold) hopefully will evolve into something better over time.
I know cost is a major for concern for many of the “war weary.” Want to save money then close bases in Europe, reconsider our relationship with NATO and quit funding the failed UN. The savings would be significant. Stop the kinetic action in Libya and reconsider the aid we give to Egypt (thanks to Obama a neo-fundamentalist state) and Pakistan.
As for Afghanistan they are a much weaker democracy, but still there is an embryonic democracy in this country too. But if we do as you suggest and abandon the country then it will eventually be a failed state and we’ll be back where we were on 9/11. I know Americans are impatient and easily bored, but for the majority who’ve sacrificed little during the GWOT it would not be unreasonable to give the military till 2014 to stabilize the country and kill jihadists. Then we can have a successful drawdown without leaving behind a mess that we’ll have to deal with again in a decade or less.
The Big E| 6.23.11 @ 2:06PM
The gist of my post, sir, was that we cannot establish a Western style democracy in a country:
a. With a fractious, divided and tribal society, and
b. With no tradition of Western thought to undergird the concepts which must pre-exist before democracy can succeed, and
c. With no desire on the part of the governed to govern themselves.
I would add to that:
d. That is predominantly Islamic.
I use the term "Western style" democracy because, as you know, Iran claims to be an "Islamic" democracy, and I'm assuming you're not wanting to spend our treasure and the lives of our young men and women to create another Iran.
Yet, a Western style democracy is utterly and completely alien to the Afghan people, and to their prevailing philosophy - Islam. In fact, one could argue, based on the teachings of the Koran, that a country cannot be both a Western style democracy and Islamic for very long because the two are mutually exclusive - the freedom promised by, and undergirding, a Western style democracy, is prohibited by Islam, while the control of thought and belief undergirding Islam is anathema to a Western style democracy. In short, neither Afghanistan, nor any other predominantly Islamic country, will be a stable Western style democracy so long as they are Islamic.
We get nowhere with pie-in-the-sky Utopian fantasies based on ignorance of our enemy and his way thought and belief.
Michael Tomlinson| 6.23.11 @ 11:35AM
W I think a stronger US hand behind the scenes would be advisable in Afghanistan. You're right it is a mess, but what country wouldn't be that had been a war since 1979. Chalk up another failure to Democrat Jimmy Carter.
What I don't want to do is what we did after the Soviets bugged out -- bolt ourselves. That policy failed.
I agree 100% we need to tap into our own vast energy riches and free ourselves from Arab and imported oil. That would give us greater freedom in dealing with other countries.
W| 6.23.11 @ 1:37PM
Michael, after we nation-build in Afghanistan, we should try Detroit, Washington DC, New Orleans,etc. those cities are more dangerous than the war zones.
Nunya| 6.23.11 @ 1:45PM
MT, W, and E: Excellent points all. Very well done, thank you.
Bob From District 9| 6.23.11 @ 5:06PM
"In both Afghanistan and Iraq, there is not only NO history of democracy whatsoever, but the prevailing religion/ideology, i.e. Islam, is four-square against democracy in any sense which would be recognizable to us."
Actually, not true.Most Islamic dictators are against democracy, as are most dictators of all religions. AFAIK Islam is the only major religion that actually declares dictatorship to be bad for the people. In the Qu'ran. Making Islam the religion most suited to democracy.
Though most Muslims probably do not realize this.
"Second, Germany was German, and filled with Germans. The German people had a common history, culture, language, etc., and had those things common for a thousand years even before Germany became a unified nation."
Again, not exactly true. Before German unification Germany was divided, and was mostly city states or under kinglets. (My term) They didn't even speak the same language. The dialects were different enough to count seperately. War was as common amongst themselves as between them and other peoples.
Democracy as we know it is an almost exclusively Western institution, built upon the traditions, history, and religious and secular philosophy of the West built up over 3000 years or so.
I wold go from "almost exclusively", to "exclusively". I know of no non-western form of democracy.
"The money for the terrorist attacks comes from Saudi Arabia and Iran and Syria."
He was 1/3rd right about this. Saudi Arabia is almost the only source of funding for terror against the US. It is the source of Al Qaeda and funding for Al Qaeda. Saudi Arabia is America's true enemy in the Middle East. Iran is no threat, and Syria and Libya are much lesser threats.
Pecos Pete| 6.23.11 @ 8:21AM
Didn't watch King O make his most recent campaign speech. Did some bowling instead, and was greatly inspired.
Did anyone count the number if "I did its" in the speech?
Michael Tomlinson| 6.23.11 @ 8:45AM
Pecos what was your score? Bet it is better than what Obama gets in the electoral college in 2012.
Pecos Pete| 6.23.11 @ 9:20AM
226 over three lines, made $275. Very inspiring!
Pecos Pete| 6.23.11 @ 9:22AM
OOPS, now the IRS or TSA will be on my doorstep for, gosh, gambling. At least I didn't smoke.
Michael Tomlinson| 6.23.11 @ 11:36AM
Don't worry we're not going to rat you out.
Drunken Sailor| 6.23.11 @ 2:02PM
If you ate any of the food there Michelle Obamas, Nutrition Special Enforcement division will be after you as well. Just as soon as they get done correcting the Presidents eating habits to her satisfaction.
Al Adab| 6.23.11 @ 2:22PM
What do you suppose Michelle would say about Bourbon and Scotch, not to mention Jack Daniels?
DCD-in-Indiana| 6.23.11 @ 8:30AM
I never turn on the TV when there's a chance this clown might be on it, so all I know is he's pulling out troops faster than his generals want him to. What? I thought Afghanistan was the "good war"! How does losing it improve Obama's chances in 2012?
I thought the focus on Afghanistan was absurd to begin with. If the Russians couldn't tame them, how did Obama think he could? So now that he's spent even more American blood and treasure, he's going to pull out prematurely. We've seen this movie before -- in Vietnam, in Cambodia -- and it doesn't end well.
Obama's campaign theme for 2012 ought to be "I made a bad situation worse -- across the board."
Bob From District 9| 6.23.11 @ 5:09PM
"I thought Afghanistan was the "good war"! How does losing it improve Obama's chances in 2012?
I thought the focus on Afghanistan was absurd to begin with. If the Russians couldn't tame them, how did Obama think he could? So now that he's spent even more American blood and treasure, he's going to pull out prematurely. We've seen this movie before -- in Vietnam, in Cambodia -- and it doesn't end well."
That war was lost the day Cheney turned his attention from Afghanistan to Iraq. Funny I don't recall many right wing voices against him then.
Obama should have ended Iraq the first year, and maybe he could have done some good in Afghanistan. Time to pull out there also, President Cheney, through puppet Bush, lost that war long ago.
dc| 6.23.11 @ 8:40AM
Summary:
America winning (at anything): bad
Enemies winning (and humiliating America): good
Bleeding America's military gradually and looking forward to a pack of pedophilic, drug dealing barbarians dancing on our soliders' graves, while pretending to "come home" and "nation-build" domestically: treasonous socialism.
Pretty simple.
Michael Tomlinson| 6.23.11 @ 8:46AM
dc well said.
PAUL| 6.23.11 @ 10:09AM
DC - Bravo Zulu
BD57| 6.23.11 @ 8:43AM
My son's headed for 1st Marine Division today. 1st Marine has had battalions in Afghanistan since 2008. While I don't know that he's headed to Afghanistan any time soon, I'm resigning myself to the idea that he will wind up there eventually.
I don't want his life on the line for nothing. That's an old sentiment for me - - - I've felt that way about our men & women in uniform for a long time. If they're out there, the least we owe them is a very good reason for their presence - that, and a plan which will get it done & get them home.
Obama's playing the political game. He's trying to split the baby - he's not willing to give Petraeus what he needs to get the job done (his base would BBQ him for that) and he's not willing to abandon the mission (everyone else would BBQ him for that). So, to split the baby, he leaves Petraeus in place but denies him the force he believes is necessary to get the job done.
Young men will die because of this.
Maddox| 6.23.11 @ 10:04AM
Yes and now this all that should matter to the American people. Our leaders have allowed this jerk to come in and humiliate our country and still expect good young men, like your son, to be willing to die for their politics. They are disgusting traitors.
I pray for his, and all of our soldiers, safety.
GOD bless you, I don't know how you endure.
W| 6.23.11 @ 10:45AM
We all pray for your son's safety.
Nunya| 6.23.11 @ 1:48PM
BD, our prayers are with you and your family. May God protect your son.
Drunken Sailor| 6.23.11 @ 2:09PM
Pray that your son stays safe. Obama never wanted the surge in the first place and when pushed to do it still did not give the number of troops the generals wanted. This resulted in slower results, which he blamed on the generals, and used as justification to start pulling them out at the earliest possible moment. Faster than the generals recommend, because he obviously knows more about warfare than them. I am sure it's just a coincidence that most of them come home just in time for the 2012 election.
Michael Tomlinson| 6.23.11 @ 8:51AM
BD57 Good on your son. The I MARDIV's record in Afghanistan and Iraq is only second to the II MARDIV.
Your last sentence is on point.
The Big E| 6.23.11 @ 8:57AM
Setting aside the idiot Obama for a moment, there are two serious questions which need to be answered about Afghanistan (or any other war for that matter). They are questions which should have been answered long ago, but if they ever were, I must have missed it somewhere. Here they are:
1. What are our strategic goals in Afghanistan? - in other words, what are we hoping to accomplish there?
2. What would constitute victory in Afghanistan? - in other words, how will we know if and when we've accomplished it?
I know we wanted to remove the Taliban from power and capture or kill UBL. We've now done those things. What further goals do we have? To wipe the Taliban and Al Qaeda off the face of the earth? To destroy the hateful ideology behind those organizations? To make Afghanistan a democracy? What?
We didn't even wipe the Nazis off the face of the earth in WWII, and certainly did not destroy the hateful ideology behind them, and as for making Afghanistan a democracy, that is a Utopian goal which simply cannot be accomplished through military action. The Afghans cannot govern themselves until they want to govern themselves, and we can't make them want to do that.
After removing the Taliban and killing Osama, what exactly is left to do that can reasonably be done? Will someone please explain that to me?
Pecos Pete| 6.23.11 @ 9:29AM
"what exactly is left to do that can reasonably be done?" Answer: make more money for somebody.
Solution: Get the hell out of Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya before we waste more lives and treasure.
As stated by BD57 above: "Young men will die because of this."
Mike| 6.23.11 @ 9:23AM
Interesting article, Mr. Wittman.
Like others, you struggle to explain how any Afghan leader who attempts to create a "modern cohesive national structure," and risks being assassinated for the effort, is going to provide the leadership necessary to help the United States achieve "a definitive result" (however that is defined) before we leave. Somehow, I don't think Karzi is the man. I don't think he is even interested.
You leave unaddressed the issue concerning Karzai's demand that we continue to provide funds for "reconstruction and development" in Afghanistan while we ignore the same needs in our own country because of our financial problems.
It is difficult keep up with who our enemies in Afghanistan are - al Qaeda (which has metastasized to other countries), the Taliban (must be "incorporated into any political solution" or truly defeated - which is it?), Pakistan's ISI? Perhaps its the inability of our two political parties to work together to craft a coherent foreign policy.
You accuse President Obama of seeking "to turn defeat into victory simply by altering the characterization of the original aim," yet in your very first sentence you admit that there have been "many characterizations of victory with respect to the Afghan conflict, none of them appears capable of being put into effect."
While not intended to be, this article is a stinging rebuke of any who continue to harbor neo-con fantasies and an indictment of the Bush administration that led us into this quagmire.
Melivn| 6.23.11 @ 9:31AM
What was the strategic value to all this? Securing the mineral rights for Chinese Mining Companies. The US taxpayer has built a huge infrastructure in Afghanistan.
Roads, dams, hydro electric power generators, hospitals, strategic, air bases and communication & resupply centers, and the Chinese get the mineral rights.
The mayor of Kabul, Mr. Karzai has a network of corruption, with the Heroin and smuggling trade that would make a Mexican drug cartel blush with envy, and we built it all of him. And the Chinese to get the mineral rights.
I guess we should look at this way. When we have to fight the Taliban again at least they will have the best airfields, resupply, and communications centers that US taxpayer can provide. The Chinese mining companies along with the Chinese Tongs will set up Heroin distirbution points and use the very airfields and roads we built to move that cursed drug.
To keep Karzai's family and relatives fat and happy, the Chinese will just keep funneling Yuan into Karzai's hidden accounts.
And what will we get from Mohamed Karzai and the Afghan people, for 10 years of dead and severely wounded sons, daughters, husbands, wives, uncles, aunts, and cousins. "Hey! stupid imperialistic Americans, don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out. Now where is my new best friend Mr. Wang?"
Clint| 6.23.11 @ 9:43AM
"Although the U.S. government has spent more than $940 billion on the conflict in Afghanistan since 2001, a treasure trove of mineral deposits, including vast quantities of industrial metals such as lithium, gold, cobalt, copper and iron, are likely to wind up going to Russia and China instead of American firms."
"The New York Times reported that U.S. officials and American geologists have found an estimated $1 trillion worth of mineral deposits that have yet to be exploited in the country. The paper said a Pentagon report called Afghanistan potentially "the Saudi Arabia of lithium," a key component in batteries for cellphones, laptop computers and eventually, a plug-in fleet of electric cars."
Jack fromWi. | 6.23.11 @ 10:00AM
Afganistan is the graveyard of empires. Some fools here are still trying to justify our policy.
Michael Tomlinson| 6.23.11 @ 11:49AM
Catchy title, but somewhat fallacious history. Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan and the British Empire, three of the largest empires in history, weren't buried by Afghanistan.
The only empire whose collapse can be linked to its involvement with Afghanistan was the Soviet empire and if it hadn't been for Ronald Reagan and the CIA they'd have succeeded.
Too many folks are easily intimidated.
Jack fromWi. | 6.23.11 @ 2:39PM
Nonsense Alexander never controlled Afganistan. He went in and got the hell out as fast as he could. The Briitish went in from India and lost their whole army. One beatup surviver was let out to tell the story. The British could never control the Afgan tribes. Of course we know what happened to the USSR and their stooges. That is the same thing that is going to happen to us and our stooges. If Afganistan is ever made a democracy it will be by Afgans, not some Trotskyite neocons and their fantasies of worlwide democratic revolution. They may as well go back to their old fantasies of a worldwide communist revolution.
Kishego| 6.23.11 @ 4:33PM
If we weren't pussy footing around with handicapping rules of engagement, the war could have been one. As Mr. Tomlinson eluded, the soviets lost because we were helping the Afganis. Jimmy Carter and Brzyzinski were responsible for arming and outfitting OBL and his cronies. They only turned against the US because we pulled out and left them hanging once it was clear the russians were going to pull out.
PCP Smoker| 6.23.11 @ 12:22PM
Agree with the critics. Quit repeating conventional wisdom here. We were never defeated in Afghanistan. We took it upon ourself to make this shithole a democracy.
Doctor Right| 6.23.11 @ 11:43AM
Truman lost China. And he would have lost Korea, too...
Johnson lost Vietnam and southeast Asia.
Carter lost Iran.
And Obama will singlehandedly erase all the gains we've made against terrorism by losing Afghanistan.
Democrats...they're pathetic, and despicable.
Michael Tomlinson| 6.23.11 @ 11:50AM
Doctor Right so RIGHT!
Jack fromWi. | 6.23.11 @ 2:43PM
We never had those countries. They were not ours to lose. All this is. How dumb do you have to be to see that these wars were always a mistake? I knew it and i was just sitting here watching. The country is broke and all that was accomplished was nothing.
RCV| 6.23.11 @ 6:17PM
Ah, yes, Dr. Right, "Truman lost China." Please, enlighten us and reveal how Truman could have "won" China. The notion in the 20th and 21st century that we or any other Western power can preserve countries whose autocratic rulers have engendered mass disaffection of the populace is nonsense. As for Afghanistan, we didn't go in to "win" Afghanistan - we went in to bring to justice the individuals who attacked our country on 9/11, and we would have accomplished what we've managed to a lot earlier if we hadn't ignored that goal for 10 years by getting diverted in Iraq. It was that folly that was pathetic and despicable.
Nick| 6.23.11 @ 11:59PM
RCV,
Yes, Truman lost China. Because Truman and Marshall refused to do anything about all of FDR's communist spies running around the State Department.
The Soviet spy, Owen Lattimore, was instrumental in convincing the democrats to abandon Chiang Kai-shek and cut-off military aid to his forces.
Just like the democrats would do to South Viet Nam, 30 years later.
Two truly dark chapters in U.S. history, thanks, again, to the democrat party.
Michael Tomlinson| 6.24.11 @ 12:39AM
Nick thank you. You nailed it. Don't forget it was Carter who helped install the tyrant Khomeni. Had he actually read or had someone read what the fanatic wrote he'd have known he was a Muslim Hitler.
RCV| 6.24.11 @ 1:18PM
Chaing Kai-Shek and his corrupt regime were unsustainable. One can only imagine the endless decades of war we would have been involved in had we followed that course. Truman and Marshall -- two of our country's greatest patriots and leaders -- knew when and how to confront the Communists when that course was warranted, as in Greece and Korea, and when to resist the sirens of folly.
Nick| 6.24.11 @ 8:21PM
RCV,
Typical liberal propaganda. Chaing was not corrupt. He was a freedom-fighter in the best sense of the term. Would you like to bet whom the Chinese would've preferred to win? Especially, the 50 million killed by Mao?
There was a good reason that Truman's job approval was at 21% when he left office. He was a party-machine hack from Missouri. He was feckless at Potsdam. The only good thing he did was drop the bomb. Don't believe the attempt to re-invent him by David McCollough.
Marshall was either a blind incompetent, like Truman. Or, he was willfully ignorant, and therefore corrupt. I don't know enough about him to decide which.
What about Lattimore? No opinion about him?
RCV| 6.26.11 @ 12:33AM
Don't know what you've read on Chinese history to form the astonishing conclusion that Chaing was not corrupt! He was in the pay of the Soviets for much of his career, was both incompetent and corrupt. Had he been more interested in China than his personal interests, that country might have been spared the butchery of Mao.
As for Lattimore, I have no regard for him at all. He was indeed a scheming Marxist traitor.
I didn't need David McCullough to confirm what I already knew and admired about Truman. He was a true American great, and his (and Marshall's) contributions to the post-war world in rebuilding Europe into a democratic bulwark, in keeping Greece and Turkey and Austria out of the hands of the Soviets, in marshalling a war-weary world to resist the agression of North Korea, in desegregating the Armed Forces, in supporting the establishment of Israel, will long live as a testament to his legacy.
Nick| 6.26.11 @ 7:09PM
RCV,
I'm no expert on the subject, that's for sure. But, I remember a few things I read in Human Events about Chaing. Even if the KMT was full of corruption, that didn't make Chaing corrupt. Plus, he was militantly anti-communist, which is all that mattered in the post-war years.
Truman was far, far from being great (21% approval, remember?) There would have been no need to "resist the agression[sic] of North Korea" if Truman hadn't lost China in the first place.
Although, you are correct. I did forget about desegregation and supporting Israel. These were good things.
So, I amend my previous statement: The only three good things Truman did were drop the bomb, desegregate the military, and recognize and support the state of Israel.
PCP Smoker| 6.23.11 @ 12:19PM
I'm conflicted on the war. The US imposes difficult rules of engagement on itself while taking on more and more non military roles while exposing our soldiers to danger. A marine dead in order to build a school in a shithole in Afghanistan? Fuck that. Either unleash them and turn that place into a parking lot or bring them home.
JimmyT| 6.23.11 @ 12:29PM
Hey Doc--FDR WON the big war. Nixon pulled out of Vietnam. And my understanding is China threw in with N Korea in the Korean war, so Truman actually beat the Chicoms. Now carter, you nailed that one. But, that's not my point. My point is we have done what we went to Afghanistan to do and we should leave. Osam is dead and the Taliban is in disarray. Afghanistan has been at war with Afghanistan for 600 years. This country is not now nor will it every be a democracy. It has a population of about 30M and 180 or so provinces. We have a certain degree of control in 29 of those provinces. It's smaller in area than Texas and will continue to do what it has done for 600 years. It's a pipe dream to believe it will change. Leave some special ops teams in place to search out camps and an aircraft carrier to send rockets to destroy them. IMHO
Drunken Sailor| 6.23.11 @ 2:15PM
"Osam is dead and the Taliban is in disarray". And your conent with them being in dissary but not destroyed? Where did we try that before? Oh yeah, Desert Sheild/Desert Storm and we had to go back evenutally and do it all over again with a battle hardend enemy in stronger fortifications. Not sure I agree it is time to throw the towel completly in. The only thing I hate more than our troops being there is if they have to return.
Steve| 6.23.11 @ 1:35PM
Our Founders believe in a policy of non intervention. They also believed that you don't go abroad seeking Monsters to Destroy. Our Constitution requires a declaration of war to go to war. Maybe it's time to follow our Traditions for a change. The Founders believed in Trade with everyone, entangle alliances with none. We need to get back to true conservatism, not neoconservatism. Study Russel Kirk and Robert Taft.
Nunya| 6.23.11 @ 2:05PM
Steve, you are absolutely right on the money. There was a reason that we as a people were dissuaded from "entangling alliances" by the Founding Fathers, they lead to what we have now: multiple wars, troops stationed all over the world, excessive costs with the UN and NATO, etc., etc. Our federal government needs to cut back on everything to right this economy and put us back on track. We should start with the UN and all of their anti-American BS, cut their funding entirely and force them to move to France. Cut back our overseas bases, get the hell out of Libya and for God's sake let's put a plan together for Afghanistan and Iraq. Like many have stated here, we have no plan to define victory, and we need one. From that we can create strategies to get there, with the ultimate plan to get out.
Unfortunately, there is no hope of any of this with the current batch of idiots in charge.
Bob From District 9| 6.23.11 @ 2:35PM
Early in the Iraq war Pat Buchanan, you remember him, don't you, said "Endless war destroys democracies."
Now, I don't agree with Buchanan's politics in general, but he got this one exactly right.
You, Mr. Tabin, don't give a damn about what's good for America, only what the best way to strike out at Obama. His great failing is not pulling out of Iraq in his first year. That and not closing Gitmo even quicker. It is long past time we were out of there. We should have been finished with Afghanistan in 10 week, not 10 years. Yet I don't see you excoriating Bush for screwing up that war.
And the invasion of Iraq was a war crime, not a mistake. Quoting Gen Petraeus in 2003, "Tell me how this ends. Eight years and eight divisions?"
Well, 2003 was 8 years ago. It's time it ends. And long past time Afghanistan ends.
Oh, and you lied about his stimulus. His advisers ran up a projection, not terms for judging success. By the terms of judgement of economists, the Wall Street Journal's pick of economists rated Obama's stimulus a success, by a large majority. The National Association of Business Economists members rated it a success by a large margin.
Just how are you qualified to judge? Not even based on honesty.
BTW, his health care overhaul is actually popular with most American. Many do have a problem with portions of it, even I have a problem with the mandate, but overall it is popular with most American.
Of course you would not understand that, you are out of touch with America.
PCP Smoker| 6.23.11 @ 3:30PM
"TW, his health care overhaul is actually popular with most American. Many do have a problem with portions of it, even I have a problem with the mandate, but overall it is popular with most American."
THIS ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT.
NO ONE LIKE GOVERNMENT SERVICES, INCLUDING THE CONGRESSMEN AND SENATORS PUSHING THIS CRAP.
Bob From District 9| 6.23.11 @ 3:44PM
Yes, PCP will do that to you.
PCP Smoker| 6.23.11 @ 3:56PM
You are the Obama dick sucker promoting liberal shit. Buy a gun, put it in your mouth, and pull the trigger. Take your god Obama with you, if you want to. Kill your mother too.
Oldefarte| 6.23.11 @ 3:06PM
Whether it be now, next year or five years from now; the minute after we've evacuated our troops out of the middle east will witness the incursion of the terrorists re-filling the void. Spraying roaches away from food on a floor will only keep them away for a second or two, and they will return once the threat/smell has gone away. There is nothing in the middle east of national interest worth fighting for, and their residents/neighbors don't even care enough to fight for their freedoms!!!!!!!
Bill| 6.23.11 @ 3:15PM
Obama made his intentions clear in the 2008 campaign, so his decision to pull out of Afghanistan is perfectly consistent with those intentions.
My only two beefs are: (1) why did he send more troops over to Afghanistan if he didn't intend to fight to win? And (2) why have we had to stand by while X number more of our troops have been killed and wounded during the years since Obama got elected?
If we weren't going to put our hearts into fighting the fight in Afghanistan, why did Obama keep our troops there? And if we're not going to fight to win, what's the purpose of keeping troops there for another 2-1/2 years? We could have them out of there in a month; why don't we do that? I mean, if we're going to say "to hell with Karzai and Afghanistan," why are we dicking around like this?
Bob From District 9| 6.23.11 @ 3:45PM
"If we weren't going to put our hearts into fighting the fight in Afghanistan,..."
This kinda line really pushes it. Ask the commanding generals why they didn't fight the fight, no one else is responsible.
Bill| 6.23.11 @ 4:38PM
The responsible party by military standards is the Commander-in-Chief, Barack Obama.
PCP Smoker| 6.23.11 @ 3:48PM
Excellent questions.
jerryc| 6.23.11 @ 3:31PM
Independent of the merits of the Afghanistan War, why is it acceptable to announce to the enemy, in advance, troop deployment in the war on terror. What if a President had done this during WWII? It is obvious the only reason for this action is polictical aimed at reelection at the expense of our fighting men who will be left in Afghanistan and other places in the ongoing fight on terror.
Melivn| 6.23.11 @ 3:34PM
To put this into a context that can understood. Our Constitution is very explicit in how and when United States Armed Forces are to be put into harms way.
It was designed as such, so there would be absolutely no doubt by every single American in knowing exactly of whom we were going to fight, what country it was going to take place in and, and why are the Armed Forces were going to embark on a military campaign.
During this Declaration of War a debate would ensue to make sure that this course of action of sending our armed forces into harms way was a prudent and practical thing to do.
But unfortunately there are those who feel that the Constitution is too outmoded for todays environment.
Let me give you a military man's take on this whole scenario.
When you send me and my brothers and sister into and armed conflict, we ask only but of a few things from our Country. We ask that our Countrymen and Countrywomen support every man and women fighting in the field explicitly, without question.
We ask that our families are taken care of when while we are in the field, to ease our anguish from being away from our loved ones.
We ask that we receive our mail in a timely fashion, because sometimes it is the only link with sanity, that we have available to us.
We ask that you do not forget us, and why you sent us to war in the first place.
Most importantly, we ask that you give us the tools, and the National will to win the war that you sent us to, so that we can come home, and breath the fresh clean air of the United States with our families
I may not have eloquence of George Washington or Douglas Macarthur, for I am a simple American fighting man along with my fellow brothers and sisters, and what we request from our fellow Americans is small, compared to what is going on in the world today.
I like to think that I speak for those who went before me, and who came after me. The above might sound soppy and hokey, but when your having bullets, mortars, and RPG's going off around you, sometimes we think this, we're all different, but we all have one thing in common. We just want to get the damn fighting over with so we can come home, thats all.
IQ al Rassooli | 6.23.11 @ 6:49PM
As someone who has spent over 30 years researching the subjects of Muhammad and Islam in Arabic (my mother tongue) I find Obama’s understanding of Islam incredibly naive considering her was groomed into it.
No Afghani government will ever be DEMOCRATIC especially when the Taliban take over.
Muhammad’s Quran, his Sunna and Sharia are Hatemongering Warmongering Racist Misogynist and totally undemocratic because Sharia is the nemesis of Democracy. They cannot coexist since Democracy is Man Made and Sharia accepts only Allah’s laws.
The Muslim Brotherhood that Obama also believes can be turned democratic is another of his totally insane illusions.
Obama’s policies of disengagement and his total disregard for America’s friends is going to cause greater instances of conflict than his peace mirage.
As an outsider, I find Obama a greater threat to American future security than Carter ever was.
Those who do not believe me just Google ‘al rassooli’ and get informed with 780 chapters and over 300 audio/videos proving everything I state.
Melvin| 6.23.11 @ 8:12PM
Your brief post speaks volumes. I haven't spent 30 years, but I and many here who normally post here everyday are to many degrees like thinkers.
Our state run education is rife with corruption that instills the virtues of Islam. Since this lands Christian religion is demonized by these agents of Islam, this Country's youth naturally embrace Islam because the do not understand or even have a rudimentary knowledge of Christianity.
Normally when I enter into a conversation with an Islamic sympathizer, I usually quiet them with, "You have your lands to practice Islam as you wish, these lands belong to Christians and we wish to practice as we wish. So please leave these Christian lands.
For some reason my rational leaves them dumbfounded and at a loss for words. But then again I don't leave the option open for negotiations.
Your post is wise and just, look forward to joining in more of the forums at American Spectator.
LibertyAtStake | 6.23.11 @ 7:26PM
Excellent Quickie Analysis. I'll take a pass and just add it to the Assigned Reading List for later.
d(^_^)b
http://libertyatstake.blogspot.com/
"Because the Only Good Progressive is a Failed Progressive"
beebop| 6.23.11 @ 7:37PM
I can't wait until his show is cancelled in November 2012 for lack of viewers .... has there ever ever ever been a politician as over exposed as this one?
CCS| 6.23.11 @ 10:45PM
It's funny how a prime example of political transparency is defined by some as "overexposure" by others. I swear, if Obama stayed stuck up in his hole in the White House, Conservatives would whine that he's not telling them anything. They can't help but bitch about everything, both real AND imaginary...
Dave | 6.23.11 @ 8:26PM
Obama's rating is a zero when it comes to foreign policy in favor of the USA. He has too much invested in the Arab world, to worry about little things like the Islamists planning to destroy Israel, all the Jews, and all the non-Islam religious people. Obama is too much like the Rev. Wright who is definitely wrong about American. Go back to where ever you came from Obama. (the alleys of Chicago?)
Traditional Conservative| 6.23.11 @ 9:54PM
This article is utter B.S. How exactly do you "win" a nation building campaign? The truth is that we won the war in Afghanistan 6 months after we went in. We had defeated the Taliban and had Al-Quaeda on the run. After that point in time, we should've focused on killing individual terrorists through special operation forces and drones. But anybody who supports the concept of nation building is a neo-conservative, not a traditional conservative. There's nothing conservative about using our military to build roads, schools, bridges, and hospitals in foreign countries. The only bad part about Obama's speech is that his withdrawal plan is way too slow. We should pull all of our troops out of there within a year.
CCS| 6.23.11 @ 10:40PM
So instead you would want Obama to declare victory before we're done? What is he, a clairvoyant? I wish people would stop having unrealistic expectations. "Wave a magic wand Obama and fix this now." Nobody is patient enough to sit and look at the progress and take it as it comes. How can he talk about winning when we've only made recent headway? And withdrawing 10K troops when there are more than 100K in the country is hardly a step towards failure. Talk about politics? This article is chock FULL of political spin by Tabin. Pathetic.
Marc Jeric| 6.23.11 @ 11:00PM
Mullah Obama reminds me of the history lessons of my youth. First there was a multi-centuries effort to invent a perpetuum mobile - a machine that would work forever with no further ado. Our lawyers in Congress think they could now legislate a modern-day perpetuum mobile by setting higher and higher miles/gallon laws: 2o, then 30, then 50 miles per gallon - and why not 100 or even a thousand miles per gallon?
Then in the middle ages the nobles employed the alchemists to find the philospher's stone - by whose help one could stay eternally young and never die; they were also spening hundreds of years trying to transform lead into gold. That makes me think of our lawyers/legislators forcing "green" and "renewable" energies on us. It is however impossible to defeat the laws of thermodynamics no matter how fervent our legislators are with their crazy laws.
TGrade1| 6.24.11 @ 7:48AM
The guy we need isn't well known yet, but he has written extensively on a myriad of challenges facing America. Check it out: www.gradyforpresident.com.
cheap jeresys | 6.25.11 @ 5:13AM
i respect Obama a lot. he is a good example, he always smiling .
Rick Z| 6.25.11 @ 8:22PM
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W i t h d r a w a l : Something Obama's father should have done, 50 years ago .
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weddingdress | 7.8.11 @ 4:56AM
I wold go from "almost exclusively", to "exclusively". I know of no non-western form of democracy.
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