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In Memoriam
Kennedy Catholicism
The Church of St. Ted and the Church of Rome are not identical.
“I have always tried to be a faithful Catholic, Your Holiness,” Ted Kennedy wrote to Pope Benedict XVI, in a letter dramatically read by Theodore Cardinal McCarrick at the senator’s burial, “and though I have fallen short through human failings, I have never failed to believe and respect the fundamental teachings.”
Though Kennedy’s words may strike detractors as a preposterous revision of history, it’s worth considering that it’s often the sinner rather than the saint who finds strength from the church. In a life that endured the violent deaths of four siblings, three miscarried children, and countless scandals, Ted Kennedy may have indeed, particularly during his prolonged illness, turned to his faith. Who, but God, can judge the content of a man’s soul?
But it’s not Senator Abortion’s 11th hour effort to transform himself into Senator Catholic that has the media up in arms. “Why couldn’t the pope have replied in his own name?” Sam Donaldson incredulously asked on This Week with George Stephanopoulos. “I was disappointed.” Time magazine found it noteworthy that a shepherd with a flock of more than 1 billion would respond in “silence” to the senator from Massachusetts’s missive.
In 1939, Pope Pius XII issued the Eucharist to seven-year-old Ted Kennedy, who, biographer Joe McGinniss claims, was “the first American citizen ever to receive his first holy communion from a pope.” In the seventy years since, Ted Kennedy’s relationship with the Catholic Church has been problematic, to say the least. From receiving communion at Mary Jo Kopechne’s funeral, to procuring an annulment for a marriage of 25 years that had produced three grown children, to revelations during the William Kennedy Smith rape trial that the senator had woke his son and nephew on Good Friday to instigate the ill-fated carousing in Palm Beach’s bars, Ted Kennedy hasn’t exactly acted as a model Catholic.
Highlighting this is the other major story — the transformation of the Kennedy Compound into a museum — to emerge from the Kennedy funeral. “Rose [Kennedy] wanted to turn the place over to the Benedictine monks before she died,” Benedict Fitzgerald, the late Kennedy matriarch’s personal attorney, told author Ed Klein for his book Ted Kennedy: The Dream That Never Died. “I drew up the legal papers for her on my front porch. But when Ted found out about it, he ripped the thing in half. There was no way he was going to have the place turned into a monastery.” Instead, as Fox News reported, “The Kennedy compound in Hyannis, Mass. will be converted into an educational center and museum as a tribute to the late Sen. Edward Kennedy.”
With Boston archbishop Sean O’Malley offering a blessing at the senator’s funeral, and the former archbishop of Washington, D.C. presiding over the burial, many of Kennedy’s political antagonists are outraged, not that the Church was silent, but that it so loudly honored a man who fought to undermine church teaching.
“No rational person can reasonably be expected to take seriously Catholic opposition to abortion when a champion of the Culture of Death, who repeatedly betrayed the Faith of his baptism, is lauded and extolled by priests and prelates in a Marian basilica,” C.J. Doyle, executive director of the Catholic Action League of Massachusetts, explained on Saturday. “This morning’s spectacle is evidence of the corruption which pervades the Catholic Church in the United States.”
THOUGH TED KENNEDY never won the role his supporters had scripted for him, those emotionally invested in “President Ted Kennedy” acted as though he had. Massachusetts’s senior senator often played along, compiling a staff that dwarfed those of his colleagues and acting as a shadow president for various liberal constituencies outside of power in a conservative age. The prolonged made-for-TV funeral, which traveled from Hyannis to Boston and then from Capitol Hill to Arlington National Cemetery, was a mourning event fit for a president. But Ted Kennedy was a senator, not a president.
That fact alone, leaving aside Kennedy’s friction with the church over abortion, gay marriage, and other hot-button issues, should explain why the pope added no further fuel to the public relations juggernaut that has dominated the American news cycle for almost a week. Those generationally, geographically, or politically tethered to Camelot mythology are befuddled why others, particularly the pope, haven’t embraced their delusion that the man whom they had wished to be president should be mourned as a president — rather than a parochial figure infused with special meaning to baby boomers, New Englanders, and the Democratic Party’s left wing.
“Here in Rome, Ted Kennedy is nobody,” a Vatican official bluntly told Time. “He’s a legend with his own constituency. If he had influence in the past, it was only with the Archdiocese of Boston, and that eventually disappeared too.”
“Running against a Kennedy is almost like running against the church,” one Massachusetts pol observed during Ted Kennedy’s initial run for Senate in 1962. But after Ted Kennedy enlisted as a combatant in the culture wars against his church, few conflate Kennedyism with Catholicism as they did a half century ago.
About the Author
Daniel J. Flynn, the author of The War on Football: Saving America’s Game, blogs at www.flynnfiles.com.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (95) | Leave a comment
More Articles by Daniel J. Flynn
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http://spectator.org/archives/2009/08/31/kennedy-catholicism
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Robbins Mitchell| 8.31.09 @ 7:16AM
Is Nazi Joe's last big mistake still dead?
jd| 8.31.09 @ 7:23AM
I can think of no other American "Catholic" family, political and non-political, that has had a total disregard not only for the doctrine of the Church but for the authority of the Pope . The fact that Kennedy committed almost every sin of the Church, not only venial but MORTAL, from everything to adultery to murder with lying and cheating thrown in underscores the fact that although he was a sinner he sure didn't seem repentant. The lapses in moral clarity throughout his life made him not only a flawed politician, but a failed Catholic. May God have mercy on him.
Pingback| 8.31.09 @ 7:30AM
Twitter Trackbacks for The American Spectator : Kennedy Catholicism [spectator.org] links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Robert Rosencrans| 8.31.09 @ 7:49AM
The only church for liberals is the church of secular humanism. They are enabled in that quest by weak policies at established churches.
janet| 8.31.09 @ 8:13AM
I would only add that this as well as the Notre Dame controvery and the scandal of homosexual priests abusing boys shows the weakened policy of the AMERICAN Catholic Church as opposed to Rome. The American church's autonomy in running its parishes at the local level and especially in its past policies recruiting priests conflicted with the Magisterium in Rome and contributed to many church scandals. I am not surprised that some American priests lauded Kennedy as a good Catholic, and it was not about forgiving a sinner as much as agreeing with his politics. For that, shame on the American church.
Richard Baker| 8.31.09 @ 8:25AM
If the Kennedy family is an example of "Good" Catholics, the Holy Father SHOULD be "silent" after the drunk's death as a statement of opinion.
Joellen| 8.31.09 @ 8:53AM
There is so much to say about the Betrayal once again of the American Catholic Church. To give honor to a man who embraced Communism, abortion and the "do as I say, not as I do", mentality should be alone revolting. However add to this debacle, the feminization of the Mass, the allowing of his children and grandchildren to use the prayerful intercessions as a front to endorse the democratic liberal agenda, well it is just kiss after kiss of Judas betraying Jesus Christ over and over again. For those of you who didnt know, Robert Schiavo passed away on Saturday. This is the man whose family was profundly affected by the Kennedy agenda. You see his daughter Terri, dont you know, didnt fit their criteria for health care, so she was denied human compassion and died a horrific death all in the name of sterilized health care. Will these same Priest (men of God) offer a public mass with the same pomp, tears and supplications for Mr. Schiavo? Sad to say, we all know the answer. It is my belief that until the American Catholic Church returns to the TRUE FAITH of CATHOLICISM, and turns away from seeking approval in a secular world, this country will continue to dwell in darkness and chaos. Pray for the Church, pray for the Priest and Pray for America.
Pingback| 8.31.09 @ 9:10AM
Brown Pelican Society of Louisiana » Kennedy Catholicism: The Church of St. Ted and t links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
gill.Oteen07041776@gmail.com| 8.31.09 @ 9:18AM
toddy-boy konnedy is a huge reason I left the Catholic Church. I realized that any religion whose leaders claim to be pro-life yet allowed such a prominent baby butcher to sit at the head table at their too rich for my wallet banquets and granted him an annulment for a marriage that produced three children, essentially declaring them illegitimate, so that hot toddy could play house with a new squeeze is much too willing to make a pact with Satan for my taste. That representatives of this organization were allowed to honor the golden calf at Notre Dame’s commencement last spring, covered up symbols of The True Messiah at Georgetown, and most recently gave the baby butcher-in-chief a podium during Mass only reinforces the correctness that these child-molesters have more sympathy for the Devil than they do for the teachings of Christ. Of course, it is rather comforting that if I had a billion or so dollars, I could purchase church sanction for all my sins Christ warned us that we will know false teachers by their actions. To which I add that birds of a feather flock together.
Gill O’Teen ✝✡
gill.Oteen07041776@gmail.com
Don’t Tread on Me!!
Tim| 8.31.09 @ 9:33AM
Matthew 23:27-28 (New International Version)
27"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
http://www.biblegateway.com/pa.....ch=matthew 23:27-28&version=NIV;
Anthony| 8.31.09 @ 9:34AM
At least one Vatican official got it right. Ted Kennedy, both morally and spiritually, was indeed a nobody, and certainly not a "somebody" that the Catholic Church would want any of its faithful to emulate.
While the Kennedy clan, no doubt, managed to corrupt a few Irish priests and cardinals along the way, with bangles, cash and Irish whiskey, at least Rome appears to be immune from the Kennedy corruption.
We can only hope that God's final pronouncement on Kennedy would silence all moral human beings. A silence from horror and fear, for that which awaits folks like Edward Moore Kennedy.
scott| 8.31.09 @ 9:36AM
Classy stuff..
scott| 8.31.09 @ 9:51AM
What would Jesus say about trashing this man? Do any of you know what was in his heart?
There is a lot of anger here at a man that, love his policies or not, dedicated his life to our country.
Go for a walk y'all, and let this man rest in peace.
Ryan| 8.31.09 @ 9:59AM
My problem with Kennedy-type politicians is the manner in which they wear their "religion." They claim to be adherents, but state that their religious beliefs do not affect their politics.
If that's the case, then what is their religion worth? It's supposed to answer the most essential questions of life, and if it's not used in forming one's political positions, it's hypocrisy. Plain and simple.
jd| 8.31.09 @ 10:02AM
Scott,
Kennedy devoting his life to his country? That is debatable but what does THAT have to do with him being a devout Catholic? NOTHING.
scott| 8.31.09 @ 10:06AM
So you all think he wasn't a good Catholic. Fine. You've passed judgment on him. Now go do something more productive with your own lives.
Steve | 8.31.09 @ 10:08AM
Preach it, brother Oteen!!! Good stuff!
Anthony| 8.31.09 @ 10:15AM
The problem with good folks like scott, who find honest judgmentalism a bit too offensive, is that for too long, scott and his ilk have allowed Kennedy to escape judgment, and the consequences have been devistating.
In case you haven't noticed scott, our society took a walk on Ted Kennedy, for decades, and as a result, we suffer the consequences of our moral and civic failings.
I suspect Jesus would admonish us all for remaining silent, while allowing Ted Kennedy's destructive swatch to devistate this country. Sorry pal, it's folks like you who need to take a hike, not us.
scott| 8.31.09 @ 10:25AM
Wow Anthony, you're right. I never realized that my ilk and I have been destroying the country by not trashing a dead guy. I'm going to take a hike now. You all keep up the righteous work!
Tony in Central PA| 8.31.09 @ 10:28AM
Is it surprising that the Boston area was arguably the epicenter for the clerical sexual abuse scandals in America ? Massachusetts had the first, and as far as I know only, Catholic priest Congressman. He was in favor of abortion. Don't ask me to explain his tortured reasoning. Congressman Drinan served until JP2 said no to priests as elected officials in 1980.
The Catholic Church hierarchy in the Boston area had cashed in on its pastoral duties too often in exchange for wordly prestige before the scandal blossomed. What good is salt when it has lost its saltiness ? The area is now left with a population of badly catechized and confused Catholics who either don't know or don't want to know the faith they profess.
jd| 8.31.09 @ 10:30AM
Scott,
Just curious, did you object to people "trashing" Kennedy when he was alive? I prefer my elected politicians to have moral relevancy when they vote on public policies paid by tax dollars that effect millions of lives. Your relativism is what needs to be buried. RIP.
Adheeb| 8.31.09 @ 10:31AM
God alone knows whether or not Senator Kennedy repented from his grievous sins. I hope he did. However, it seems to me that he made no public disclosure and repentance of them. I suspect he remained a supporter of abortion, gay marriage and etc. to the very end. He seemed to believe that salvation could be obtained without true repentance by merely contacting the right people and promising the right gift.
I hope the Roman Catholic church begins to truly make these so called 'Catholic' politicians accountable.
Nick| 8.31.09 @ 10:33AM
Scott wrote: "Now go do something more productive with your own lives."
Nothing more productive than shinning a disinfecting light on dirty little cockroaches like you and the Swimmer.
Tim| 8.31.09 @ 10:35AM
Ted Kennedy has been described as the "chef de cuisine" of cafeteria Catholicism. By his silence, Pope Benedict XVI has signaled to the American Catholic left that the cafeteria is closed.
KyMouse| 8.31.09 @ 10:38AM
Over the past two millennia, the Roman Catholic church has often (usually?) turned a blind eye toward the most horrifying sins of its most powerful members -- content to be nestled comfortably in the pockets of kings, emperors and other wealthy folks.
I'm curious: Did any priest ever rebuke Teddy about leaving Mary Jo to die, or about his powerful support for abortion? Or were they too busy cashing his checks?
Why do the clergy of the Roman Catholic church continue to behave toward rich, powerful people as if they're re-enacting their roles in "The Godfather" saga?
L. Banks| 8.31.09 @ 10:38AM
It is correct that only God can know what is truly in the hearts of men. However, Jesus Christ gave us a measurement to go by "by thy fruits you shall know them." Now, you must exert spiritual prudence when it comes to the people you come into contact whether they be leaders of the state or friends. The fact remains it is by our actions or our omissions that we will be viewed. In Ted Kennedy's case he embraced many of the things the Church stood firmly against - abortion, homosexuality, gay marriage, and in his own life engaged in excesses we all know about and also was involved in the tragic death of a young girl. Ted Kennedy not only has to answer for his own faults and his views in this life, but as a public official having influence on the people around him, he has to answer for that too. Hopefully, Ted asked for forgiveness for his life, but atonement is another matter.
2Anglico| 8.31.09 @ 10:45AM
I'm sure Mary Jo thought the big "helper" would help her too. Somehow he just couldn't manage to try. Mary Jo wanted to live as she found an air pocket and breathed and breathed until, alas, HELP DID NOT ARRIVE.
Barb | 8.31.09 @ 10:54AM
To say that Kennedy was a good Catholic or Christian is beyond disbelief. His life is a roadmap of events where he exchanged his "christianity" for political expediency It is not judgmental to simply mention the facts of his life; support for abortion, annulment of a long marriage producing 3 children, drunkenness, carousing and many, many other escapades that certainly don't speak well for a an elected dogcatcher much less a U.S. Senator. It is true that no one but God knows for sure what was in his heart at the moment of his death but his life-long deeds speak loudly for themselves. And for that reason a toned-down Catholic funeral would have been a much more appropriate choice. His funeral was simply an overblown spectacle.
Anthony| 8.31.09 @ 10:58AM
We will keep up the "righteous work" scott, thanks. Oh, but before you take your hike, check out the American Thinker web site. It has two articles you might find of interest; both deal with Ted Kennedy's seiditious acts against America during the Cold War.
Fittingly, the article by Mr. Simson concludes that while Rs & Ds lionize Ted Kennedy, it was "their silence that may have contributed to the loss of 2,998 American lives".
Yep, judgmentalism sure is a bitch, but the lack of it, is far worse. Now, you can take your stroll down santimomous memory lane.
Spicy Joker| 8.31.09 @ 11:39AM
Ted Kennedy - about as Catholic as Oliver Cromwell.
Tusker| 8.31.09 @ 11:57AM
Well said, Tim. As I always say: "If you can't say anything nice about someone, don't say anything.
Liberal Reader| 8.31.09 @ 11:59AM
Much of this piece is surprisingly fair: "surprising" because it's published on a website that was shockingly vicious in its attacks on Kennedy in the hours after his death.
I don't think, however, it is fair to consider Kennedy's political positions as "combat" in a "culture war" against the Church.
Kennedy never lobbied the pope to affirm abortion rights or to make gay marriage legal in the Church.
Democracy, as it developed in the European Enlightenment, carved out a public sphere in which -- to enter -- people had to agree that some of their most precious beliefs might not be recognized. People would agree to do business with people they firmly believed would perish for eternity in hell, for example.
Kennedy has much to answer for, there's no question. But I think his Catholicism -- now, at least -- is between him and his maker.
Kevin, Meath| 8.31.09 @ 12:07PM
Don't understand the problem, so Kennedy was a 'bad', after all the scandels we have witnessed over here many of the Catholic Church hierarchy have not been very good christians.
kingsmill| 8.31.09 @ 1:10PM
The Kennedys attempted to use the letter and the Pope's response to stage a political stunt. Ted, positioned as a "Liberal Catholic", which is a nullity, and the Pope as his foil. McCarrick, ever loyal to the dissenting "liberal Catholics" was the tool. The effort failed. The Pope's response was basically a form letter, written to a third party,responding indirectly to Kennedy. Kennedy was debating himself not the Roman Catholic Church. The Vatican was on to the deceitful, hard ball Kennedy style. Teddy's ruse fell flat. McCarrick was quoting snippets out of context, which amounted to nothing. Teddy could not "Bork" Pope Benedict.
Todd| 8.31.09 @ 1:30PM
LR,
This article is not so much about Ted Kennedy as it is about the corruption of the Catholic Church in the Boston region and across much of America. As C.J. Doyle stated accurately, "This morning's spectacle is evidence of the corruption which pervades the Catholic Church in the United States."
There is no buying redemption and the Catholic Church has been complicit in attempting to whitewash the sins of the Kennedy's in exchange for money and influence. Boston was the epicenter of the child molesting scandal and it should come as no surprise as the Church has been morally bankrupt in the region for decades. The fact they allowed Ted to receive communion at Mary Jo's funeral displays this in all its ugliness at the total lack of accountability for all involved.
Not being a Catholic, I don't believe the Pope has any divine authority whatsoever and that the Catholic Church hierarchy does not represent God in anyway. I would expect men like Theodore Cardinal McCarrick to be held accountable just as much as the Ted Kennedy for pretending to act in his name and be told to depart for I know they not.
Todd| 8.31.09 @ 1:32PM
I know thee not.
gill.Oteen07041776@gmail.com| 8.31.09 @ 2:03PM
I had to journey to my county seat this morning on personal business. This trip involves a pleasant drive through some absolutely beautiful American hill country. Along the way, I noticed that dead skunks still stink, often more than ever in life. Oliver Cromwell may not have been a Catholic, but he certainly had a wonderful solution for royalty.
Gill O’Teen ✝✡
gill.Oteen07041776@gmail.com
Don’t Tread on Me!!
hank| 8.31.09 @ 2:27PM
Quick note to Gill.oteen: an annulement DOES NOT make the children of the annuled union illegitimate. If you believe that ALL children, born and yet to be, are from God, how can they be illegitimate. Hmmm...
Liberal Reader| 8.31.09 @ 2:52PM
You all might want to read up a little on Cromwell before you go proclaiming him one of your heroes.
One or two facts about his life aren't standing you in good stead.
I understand why the term "liberal Catholic" irritates many good Catholics; I would argue that "conservative Catholic" is just as irritating a phrase.
In the past decade or two we've loaded both terms (liberal and conservative) with such a burden they can hardly do their work anymore: projecting the degeneracy of American political discourse onto the Church does the Church an injustice.
Besides, the Church is the Church for the whole human race: the pope is not a functionary of K street (much less of C street!), not a lobbyist, not a guest on the 700 Club (God wot), and he is not a Republican: if St. Michael himself were to descend upon my helpless sinning soul and order me to vote Republican, I would not, though it meant to die a thousand deaths in hell.
The pope's response to Kennedy may have been prompted by several factors: chief among them was that Kennedy was not a head of state. I don't see why any of us should expect any particular response from the pope: he's the pope, for crying out loud, and the arrogance of Americans left and right shows in this whole dust-up.
Kevin, Meath| 8.31.09 @ 3:10PM
Oliver Cromwell was the most successful 'republican' in Irish and British History!
Liberal Reader| 8.31.09 @ 3:15PM
Irish and British history?
Kevin: back to the books, my friend. To the Irish, Cromwell was just another bloodthirsty dictator -- worse than most, but perhaps not all.
kingsmill| 8.31.09 @ 3:16PM
The tags, "liberal" and "conservative" as applied to Roman Catholicism are meaningless. They are political terms useful in secular political debate but out of place describing theology. You are either Roman Catholic through baptism or conversion or you are not. The body of Catholic Faith, contained within Scripture and Tradition, and explicated by the Magisterium, is clear, and if you fail to accept it you are a dissenter. The dissenters fall within two main branches, those like the followers of Deceased Archbishop Levebre, reject the development of doctrine promulgated in Vatican II. Many have broken from the Church and are formal schismatics. They, at the least, proclaim their dissent, and accept schism. The so called "liberal" dissenter, is hyper-modernist in tendency, and resembles the "living Constitution" liberals in secular debates. They reject the primacy of Rome and the controlling nature of the Magisterium. They lack, the integrity of the rightist dissenters because they see theology and religion as politics by other means. They reject their actual status as schismatics and attempt to eat away at Catholicism from within. They represent the forces that theologian Dietrich von Hildebrand aptly described as "The Trojan Horse in the City of God."
gill.Oteen07041776@gmail.com| 8.31.09 @ 3:46PM
Hank, sorry to have to point out the obvious to you but whether or not a child is illegitimate is a legal term as well as a religious one since Marriage has both a legal and a religious status. In the eyes of the civil authorities toddy-boy and Joan were lawfully wed form the moment they took their vows until the moment the court declared them divorced. So under civil law, their children, since they were born of lawfully married parents, are certainly legitimate, God’s opinion notwithstanding. The Roman Catholic Church does not recognize civil divorce and divorced persons are considered still married in its eyes. As a result of this, divorced persons may not marry again with Church blessings. Widow konnedy wanted to marry toddy with Church blessing. She could not do so because the Church still considered her intended as married to Joan. However, the Church provides an escape clause called annulment. As I recall the Church teaching as I was instructed by Augustinian priests, an annulment is a declaration by the Church that a marriage never actually existed. If the marriage never was those three innocent children were born of unmarried parents which in the eyes of the Church makes them illegitimate. By the way, Joan Kennedy wondered herself when her marriage was annulled how her children could be declared illegitimate. Once again, God’s opinion has no bearing. However, I believe that there are no illegitimate children, there are only illegitimate parents.
Gill O’Teen ✝✡
gill.Oteen07041776@gmail.com
Don’t Tread on Me!!
Pingback| 8.31.09 @ 4:15PM
Ed Driscoll » “Few Conflate Kennedyism With Catholicism” — Except MSM links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Pingback| 8.31.09 @ 4:47PM
Balloon Juice » Blog Archive » Damned Busybodies links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
fasteddie| 8.31.09 @ 5:08PM
Don't you have any parents? Didn't anyone ever tell you not to speak ill of the dead? Kennedy's spiritual situation is between him ans his maker - putting yourself in there to judge doesn't bring Kennedy down, it bring you down to a level lower than worm feces. In short, you are filth.
gizmo| 8.31.09 @ 5:17PM
I'll put Ted Kennedy's Catholicism up against the bogus "Christianity" of GW Bush and Dick Cheney any day of the week.
Pingback| 8.31.09 @ 5:35PM
We have two more days before Ted rises, so… « JimEltringham.com links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Alan Brooks| 8.31.09 @ 6:10PM
my threads concerning Ted gathered into one:
Ted Kennedy was a quality person, he never purchased the 2 or 3 percent coke, he went for at least 60 percent, or sometimes as high as 94.9 percent pure.
So, please, let's stop being so judgmental. We have no right to judge others, except those we can't stand.
Larry Craig is someone I don't approve of, that queer-- not that it's wrong to be queer, but Craig just rubs my fur the wrong way, in a manner of speaking of course. Not that there's anything wrong with it, of course. But Craig did the Tinker Bell Two Step in a public lavatory, and that's silly. But not Ted. Ted is, was, normal, he did have a few problems, but don't we all. Look, Ted was just a sensitive Vulnerable Human Being just like the rest of us. We're all human. We have to be reminded again and again we are Human Beings so we don't get to thinking we're praying mantises or roosters.
Or caterpillars.
So what if we have differences? I accept you, just as long as you don't look sideways at me when I lecture you.
I will defend to your death the right for you to say anything that I agree with.
Ted Kennedy was a decent guy who was much better than you, you right wing flyover resident. Who in the Hell do you think you're dealing with? My attorney paid twice as much to go to law school as your punk lawyer did.
One of Ted's closest friends, actually it was his niece Caroline, announced that Ted "is now a part of history". Yes, history. For it doesn't appear Ted will be attending Senate sessions any time soon.
Kevin,Meath| 8.31.09 @ 6:14PM
Dear Liberalreader -- you missed the irony-- in Ireland ,fairly or unfairly, Cromwell is blamed for massive slaughter and a hate figure for Irish 'Republicans' and in Britain well how big a 'Republican' do want? kill the King and establish government by a parliament.
Luke| 8.31.09 @ 6:15PM
Thank goodness we have the American Spectator and its readers to judge who is and is not a good Catholic. Your open bitterness and anger that Kennedy was *not* denied communion and that Catholic luminaries honored him at his funeral is quite unbecoming and ugly. Judge not, lest ye be judged. Good thing there are no sinners on this website who need to worry about that, apparently. Keep whipping those stones, hypocrites.
John Nampion | 8.31.09 @ 6:18PM
Teddy K. obviously had contempt for Catholic Church teaching, and flouted its doctrine all of his adult life.
Not a problem, I guess, if you are an atheist, or agnostic, or some other religion. But to call yourself a member of a faith whose core beliefs are anathema to you is just a tad bit strange, don't you think?
I used to get mad at my Dad (who did subscribe to Catholic theology) when he would shout MURDERER every time he saw the Senator on TV...but HYPOCRITE or NARCISSIST?...those work pretty well...God and Mr. Kennedy can sort out the other charge between the two of them.
Liberal Reader| 8.31.09 @ 6:19PM
kingsmill --
Most of what you say rings true; however, I don't accept the analogy of liberal "dissenters" with those who propound the notion of the Constitution as a "living document."
Constitutional scholars are simply not a unified body the way the Church is unified in the ways you describe.
Conservative talkers radically simplify very complex questions when they talk about "originalism" vs. those who believe in a "living document." In truth, obviously, there are complicated ways in which these philosophies overlap: gather the 9 justices in a room and ask them about these terms, and you'll get 9 -- if not more -- different views sometimes in concord with others and sometimes not.
To say the Constitution is a "living document" is to use a metaphor that is sometimes helpful for discussing how it continues to guide a people and a government that is greatly changed from the eighteenth century agricultural (and slave-owning) country we were at the founding. It's not a doctrine; it's simply a figure of speech.
mike| 8.31.09 @ 6:23PM
Reread Matthew 25:31-46, the Gospel from Teddy's funeral mass, and consider how his life and deeds measured up to the "least of my brethren" standard.
Nick| 8.31.09 @ 6:55PM
Gill,
The Augustinian priests taught you wrong.
From the Catholic Answers website:
"In his book 'Annulments and the Catholic Church', canon lawyer Edward Peters explains:
The granting of an annulment does nothing to affect the legitimacy of children. That status, to the scant degree it has any canonical significance, is determined prior to the time any questions of annulment are raised (117–19)."
An annulment does nothing more than declare a marriage never existed because one or both of the parties involved did not give themselves freely to the marriage; or were not allowed, legally, to be married. (See the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraphs 1625-1632)
Remember also, that whether children were declared "legitimate" or not was for legal reasons, not moral ones. It had to do with inheritance and child support.
Come back to the One, True Faith, Gill.
Don't let bad bishops and priests drive you from your Church. Fight for it like you fight for your country!
Liberal Reader| 8.31.09 @ 6:55PM
Kevin --
You're right. I don't get your "irony."
Cromwell displaced Charles I, a fairly decent kind, and established a rather harsh dictatorship in his place. He was a bloody, wicked tyrant over the Irish.
The English Revolution was an important step on the road to modern democracy, but at the time it was not so great for the people of England and it was horrible for the Irish.
Of course, everything is horrible for the Irish if the Brits are in charge.
Liberal Reader| 8.31.09 @ 7:00PM
gizmo --
Fair's fair, and just like it was offensive to have people proclaiming their conviction that Kennedy's soul was certainly damned, speculating about the authenticity of W's faith seems equally distasteful. (I don't think Cheney claims to be a very religious man; I could be wrong.)
I always thought Clinton's noises about his Baptist faith were dubious; but I've since heard testimony about it from Bill Graham and Dr. Richard Land -- neither one of whom are bleeding hearts.
Religious people are not perfect or even all that special. I'd say cut W some slack, and Kennedy too.
janet| 8.31.09 @ 7:16PM
I will bet the majority, if not all, of the bloggers who defend Kennedy know nothing about the Catholic faith nor care to. I'm also pretty sure they don't care to know that Christ entrusted Peter, the first pope, and all succeeding popes to be his representative on earth. I will give my allegiance to the Magesterium's teachings on doctrinal matters concerning the faith, and I will continue to protest loudly those politicians like Nancy Pelosi who think they can speak for the Church when it comes to stating when conception and human life begin. Again, Teddy Kennedy has no right to be called a devout Catholic. Period.
Quartermaster| 8.31.09 @ 7:23PM
Matthew 7:1 deals with judging the heart. For EMK we don't have to judge his heart, we have his multitudinous actions instead. From his actions alone, the man had a reprobate mind. Nothing else would have produced the life he led.
Scripturally, we will be judged according to our actions. Consequently, EMK is in very deep trouble.
Michael L. Hauschild| 8.31.09 @ 7:44PM
It is my take that as we traverse this realm it would be best to be careful what we wish for because, ultimately, that payback could be a bitch. I have a suspicion that the ingredients for the Teddy, Erzebet, and Henry VIII sandwich are finally assembled and the concoction is smoldering over the fire. The chef has a pointed tail and the timer is set for “eternity.”
Obie Wan| 8.31.09 @ 8:17PM
Seems to me that Boston archbishop Sean O'Malley and the former archbishop of Washington, D.C. are perfect examples as to why the Catholic Church is dying in America. When a church is willing to turn it's back on fundamental spiritual principles to court politics people sense the hypocrisy and reject it !!!
kingsmill| 8.31.09 @ 8:24PM
LR, "living Constituion", I agree is not a doctrine, but an attitude towards interpretation.
Just as, so called "liberal Catholicism" or "conservative Catholicism" (for that matter) are attitudes towards a body of defined doctrine. It's an imprecise comparison,both are dispositions towards an authoritative document and as Roman Catholics believe, an authoritative Church. It was meant as a suggestive comparison.
John Henry Cardinal Newman's concept of "development of doctrine" revolutionized theology in the 19th century, and was labeled "liberal" at the time. However, it was actually, a return to the original sources, to determine the full meaning of doctrine. In the same way, "originalist" Constutional interpretation, can be an investigation of animating principles, not just mindless invocation of the dead hand of the past.
The idea of a "living Constitution" , can be used to leave the animating principles behind, in order to reach desired policy goals.
However, "Kennedy Catholicism"
kingsmill| 8.31.09 @ 8:32PM
(cont.) The fate of Ted Kennedy's soul, is not up for judgment by any Catholic.
However, his position as a "public Catholic" is very much in issue. Especially since he insisted that his public life was heavily influenced by his faith. It is incumbent on the Church to proclaim the Magisterium, whether popular or unpopular.
Pingback| 8.31.09 @ 9:18PM
AmSpec « Sister Toldjah links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Alan Brooks| 8.31.09 @ 9:31PM
Ted is in heaven. But he's got an awful lot of Community Service up there.
1969 hours in a battered women's home.And then 1977 hours in a drug clinic...
Pie Man| 8.31.09 @ 9:46PM
"Our father who art in heaven...forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us....”
Essential Catholicism…. Politics aside.
Skippy-san | 8.31.09 @ 9:52PM
This conversation is disgusting and those who condemn Kennedy can be branded with another Biblical word: Pharisee.
Liberal Reader| 8.31.09 @ 10:11PM
kingsmill --
I don't really disagree with what you write, except that I think "living document" thinking is itself -- perhaps paradoxically -- enshrined in the Constitution.
The founders meant for the Constitution to change. The 14th amendment, for example, radically changed the structure of federal AND state governments: it is AS constitutional as the first amendment, or Article 4, or any other feature of the original document. Yet it provided for enormous change in the relationship between the federal government in the states; the whole doctrine of incorporation (precious to conservatives when it comes to the 2nd amendment; not so important when it comes to others) derives from it, as do many other crucial laws and legal principles.
At any rate, I don't mean to lecture. The "living document" idea has led -- in many instances -- to enormously important legal changes that a strict "originalism" (whatever that may mean) may have prevented. Of course there are arguments that say there have been too many changes, or the wrong kind of changes, but I guess a counter might be that a "living document" interpretation relativizes the importance of precedent.
No sane judge feels bound by Plessy or Dred Scott anymore; perhaps in a hundred years they won't feel bound by Roe or even Griswald. That's because the our system allows us to reinterpret the Constitution to suit a changing society -- although with all kinds of restrictions, guidelines, boundaries, and so on.
tyramisu| 8.31.09 @ 10:16PM
Even the church has NO RIGHT to judge another human being
gill.Oteen07041776@gmail.com| 8.31.09 @ 10:56PM
Nick, the Augustinians are not responsible for this old man’s faulty memory after a span of 42 years, and it’s been even longer than that since I read a catechism. Bad Bishops and Priests are certainly enough to keep me from a return to the ‘fold’. But I am also repulsed that so many so-called Catholics embraced obumanism even knowing that he voted to allow newborn American Citizens to die. I am also repulsed that so many so-called Catholics embrace the marxist agenda of the obumacrat party since my childhood was largely devoted to praying the Holy Rosary for the downfall of the Soviet Empire. I am pro-life and anti-marxism. By the actions of its leaders and its prominent believers, the American branch of the Church has clearly demonstrated that it is not. Plus, I resent being treated as a mere sheep to be shorn by self-proclaimed good shepherds. I can shoot wolves without their guidance.
Gill O’Teen ✝✡
gill.Oteen07041776@gmail.com
Don’t Tread on Me!!
Jessie| 8.31.09 @ 11:13PM
tyramisu, the Church most certainly has the right to judge (Catholic) human beings, and does so through excommunication. Kennedy was no Catholic; at best he was a cafeteria Catholic.
Missy| 8.31.09 @ 11:17PM
Skippy-san, what's REALLY DISGUSTING is you liberals elevating Kennedy to near god-like status. In your zeal to push your culture of death agenda you willingly turn your back on the needless death of a young woman.
You are truly beneath contempt--like Teddy.
Elle| 9.1.09 @ 1:20AM
Ted Kennedy was a drunken degenerate lecher who left a young girl to suffocate while he got himself out of the car and ran to his cronies to figure out how to spin the crime and protect his political career.
He betrayed his wife countless times thereby helping to advance her eventual destruction.
Perhaps worst of all, he betrayed this country by doing an end run around President Reagan who sought to protect Western Europe from Russian nukes by means of a missile shield.
This piece of garbage should be laid to rest not in Arlington but in the nearest garbage dump.
No wonder the pope preferred to stand mute.
Contented| 9.1.09 @ 1:47AM
My parents taught me exactly what the Pope practiced regarding the death of the "Swimmer"! If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. That was all that Kennedy deserved!
BigLebowski| 9.1.09 @ 2:08AM
Teddy Boy was a Catholic in Name Only, and a Fascist to boot. You would have to be a complete moron to believe that he was a "Catholic."
They have a special place in Hell reserved for people like him. The Pope should have Ex-communicated that dirty heathen.
Parmenter| 9.1.09 @ 3:57AM
I sincerely hope that Kennedy repented and had true conversion before he died. I really do.
However, in life, and especially with no public repentance, he and Cardinal McCarrick have committed a grave scandal by giving Kennedy a church funeral. Especially such a public one praising his anti-Catholic politics. This is a very serious matter.
If McCarrick is not removed, it will be because B16 believes it would cause a schism and leave many Roman Catholics outside of the Church.
Johnathan| 9.1.09 @ 6:22AM
You know, the world, overall, is just better off without some people. That's the way it is with Ted. Today is a little brighter than it was a month ago.
Doc| 9.1.09 @ 7:07AM
Here' to Captain Oldsmoble! I sure that his faith in Catholicism helped to make him a better swimmer. In Chivas Royal, we trust. Waitress, where's my sandwich?
E.Patrick Mosman| 9.1.09 @ 7:25AM
Ted Kennedy probably never opened the Catholic Catechism or he would have known that all Catholics, in particular Catholic politicians, by calling attention to their Catholic faith and in the same breath voicing support for abortion rights, a public act of scandal, as defined in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (Nos. 2284-6), is committed. Paragraph 2286 is directly applicable to people in political positions. It reads: “Scandal can be provoked by laws or institutions, by fashion or opinion. Therefore, they are guilty of scandal who establish laws or social structure leading to the decline of morals....” . Pope Benedict XVII was no doubt well aware that Senator Kennedy and his letter bearer, President Obama, were active and vocal supporters of abortion at all stages to the point that Obama voted against providing readily available medical care to a child born after a botched abortion and had morally justified reasons for his silence.
Pingback| 9.1.09 @ 7:56AM
My Kids Deserve Better » Blog Archive » My Kids Deserve Better links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Helen Donnelly| 9.1.09 @ 3:29PM
Joellen: Very well said.
Bea Rodgers| 9.5.09 @ 6:10PM
For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory forever amen. I hope he(Ted) turned to Jesus Christ and forgot the the silent church. Yes he was a sinner but isn't that who Jesus Christ came to save was the sinner, not the righteous ones.
Kelly O'Mally| 9.9.09 @ 10:20PM
The superior tone and judgmental smugness of many on this blog pretty much negates their claims to Catholic fidelity. Kennedy was more faithul to the Church's teachings on social justice than almost any other politician. The cafeteria catholicism so-called "conservative" Catholics deplore is on rampant display in the comments section to this article. How very fitting . . .
Carmel Mulreany| 10.23.09 @ 11:51PM
May Ted Kennedy rest in God's peace ,mercy,and love.
'Judge not and thou shall not be judged,'
fat burning furnace | 11.22.09 @ 10:42PM
it's worth considering that it's often the sinner rather than the saint who finds strength from the church. --
Joakim| 2.5.10 @ 3:56PM
Infrapunasauna lievittää kroonista väsymystä, lihaskipuja, vilkastuttaa hermostoa, kohottaa potenssia, nostaa kasvuhormonien tasoa ja virkistää. Infrapunasauna on tehokas selluliitin purkaja. Infrapunasäteily lämmittää sitä voimakkaammin mitä tiiviimpää on lihaskudos. Infrapunasaunassa ihminen hikoilee kolme kertaa tavallista enemmän. Muista juoda runsaasti ennen saunomista, sen aikana ja jälkeen. Saunan jälkeen ei suositella kylmää suihkua, koska lihakset ovat lämmenneet hyvin syvältä.