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The Right Prescription
Help Me
During an otherwise dull health care town hall meeting on Wednesday, a woman identifying herself as Debby fought back tears as she described her health predicament to President Obama.
In 1998, Debby said, she underwent radiation treatment to kill a tumor -- but the radiation caused other health problems, making it impossible for her to work. Now, she has another tumor, but cannot get it taken care of because she doesn’t have health insurance or qualify for government programs.
“Well, here, come on over here,” Obama implored her, motioning Debby toward him. “We're going to find out what -- we'll get your information and we'll see what we can do to help you.”
Embracing her, Obama reassured, “I don't want you to feel all -- like you're alone.”
He then used her situation to illustrate a broader point. “Debby is a perfect example of somebody who we should, in a country this wealthy, be able to provide coverage for her health care problems,” he said.
The town hall meeting itself was highly orchestrated -- with a small number in attendance and online questions being screened by the White House. Even none other than Helen Thomas complained to Press Secretary Robert Gibbs about the event being staged.
During the session, Obama received questions from an advocate of a socialized, or single-payer health care, a representative of the liberal activist group Health Care for Americans Now, and a member of the Service Employees International Union. “What can I do, as a member of the union, to help you with your reform bill?” the woman asked.
But the moment with Debby stood out. It was the sort of human touch that Bill Clinton mastered and that Obama, though at times emotionally distant as a candidate, has grown more comfortable with as president. Back at a February town hall meeting, one woman -- Henrietta Hughes -- asked Obama for a home while 19-year old Julio Osegueda wanted the president to help him get better benefits at his job at McDonald’s.
No politician wants to tell those who are facing hardships that the government cannot do anything to help, but the result is a populace that looks to elected officials to take care of them. There’s no polite way of telling somebody who is suffering that government cannot insulate everybody from the vicissitudes of life.
"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings," Winston Churchill once said, adding, "the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries." And nowhere is this more apparent than when it comes to health care.
Government-run health care systems might guarantee coverage to everybody in theory, but in practice they do not. "Access to a waiting list is not access to health care," the chief justice of the Canadian Supreme Court wrote in a 2005 decision. The ruling came in a case brought by a Quebec man who was told he would have to wait a year for hip surgery in the country’s single-payer system, which rations care to save costs.
Shona Holmes, an Ontario woman, was forced to travel to the United States to seek urgent treatment for her brain tumor after she was told she would have to wait 6 months in Canada, by which point she says she would have died. Of course, if Obama gets his way and government takes over health care in America, then stories of Canadians like Shona won’t have happy endings.
Obama dismisses the idea that he wants government to take over health care as a mere “scare tactic.” In reality, Obama has previously said he was a proponent of a single-payer system and he maintains that it would be the ideal system if we were starting from scratch. At the town hall meeting, he said that in other countries a “single-payer plan works pretty well” because if “you eliminate private insurers, you don't have the administrative costs and the bureaucracy and so forth.”
Instead of supporting single-payer outright, Obama has been pushing the idea of creating a new single-payer plan within the current system that people will migrate to over time. He calls this longer road to government-run health care a “uniquely American solution.”
But if Obama wants to expand coverage and reduce spending at the same time, the only solution is to ration care. There’s no way that the government can cut costs by eliminating “unnecessary” care without casting a wide enough net to prevent individuals from obtaining care they deem necessary. In the end, there is nothing more humane about a health care system run by the government. In acting to help the Debbys of the nation, Obama will create a new set of problems for many others.
UPDATE: The AP is reporting that Debby was a volunteer for Obama who received her ticket through the White House.
Philip Klein is The American Spectator's Washington correspondent.
Comments
Leave a Comment
drudge ette obama| 7.2.09 @ 6:54AM
No, help me. Help me, no, me. Not her, help me. Multiple this over 350,000,000. Who will help those who bear the financial burden to pay for Debbie's conditions? Debbie? No. Me.
Something about her story doesn't jive. It will come out. Helen Thomas may even break the story.
Big J| 7.2.09 @ 6:59AM
The "town hall meeting" was just another propaganda tool that Obama uses to push his agenda. It's theater. Obama picks the actors in the play and the audience in the theater.
Estimated cost for this new government entitlement: $1.6 trillion. I did the math, and it doesn't work out. The propaganda machine says there are 47 million uninsured Americans. How is the government going to insure them for $22.22 each? That doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of the underlying issues.
Medicare / Medicaid are slated to have a $57 trillion shortfall in the not-too distant future. How's that for government-run health care? These programs are proof-positive that there will be rationing. Many doctors do not accept these programs, as re-reimbursements are low or non-existent.
We are being held hostage by the main-stream, drive-by, state-run media. They refuse to report the facts, while Obama spouts lies, expecting us to believe them. Our congressional "mis"-representatives have become punch-drunk on power, refusing to heed our calls for freedom and less government intrusion.
This trifecta has created a perfect storm that will ensure Obama's socialist agenda succeeds, while ensuring our country fails.
It has to be stopped. Just say no to another government intrusion.
Just say no.
Robert Rosencrans| 7.2.09 @ 7:08AM
The alleged town hall meeting on health care appears to be another staged event.
While President Barack Obama appeared to be taken in by the spontaniety of the questioner "Debby" who is really Debby (or Debbie) Smith, in fact it was not spontaneious at all.
In an article linked below (You have to scroll down to see the article which has her name highlighted) Debby Smith organized her own health care town hall meeting attended by at least Tom Daschle at the direction of Barack Obama and it's highly unlikely Barack was not aware of her or her situation.
This continues the theme of staged events about important national issues where the opinions of intellect which might be different are shut out. How's that for transparency?
The only conclusion is that Barack Obama and his group of minions believe the America public is simply a herd of sheep to be sheared or dupes who exist to be taken in by the political equivalent of carnival barkers.
Even the liberal bastion of the White House press corps has had enough. Here's a comment from Helen Thomas that pretty much nails it. As you read the quote try to forget the fact that it was the liberal press who ignored the obvious fault lines of candidate Barack Obama.
"Nixon didn’t try to do that. They couldn’t control [the media]. They didn’t try that. What the hell do they think we are, puppets? They’re supposed to stay out of our business. They are our public servants. We pay them. ... I’m not saying there has never been managed news before, but this is carried to fare-thee-well--for the town halls, for the press conferences. It’s blatant. They don’t give a damn if you know it or not. They ought to be hanging their heads in shame."
Link 1
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:ExoG-9aJukAJ:www.thecoalfieldprogress.com/archive.php?viewDay=2008-12-30+"moderated+by+Debby+Smith"&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Link 2 Thomas quote
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mitchell-blatt/2009/07/01/helen-thomas-chip-reid-question-white-house-control-media
Gary Blazek| 7.2.09 @ 7:28AM
A sad commentary on Debbie's situation is that it is quite possible that, were she part of an "Obamacare" system, she might have had to wait 8 weeks or so for her initial radiation (as they do in Canada) and might not have survived to have even made her appearance at the Town Hall event.
Melvin| 7.2.09 @ 8:00AM
I hate to beat a dead horse with you guys but this is what America wants. "What the hell are you saying Melvin, we're Americans to, doesn't our opinions count?"
Our opinions are considered dog squeeze, we're not Americans. We;re labelized, categorized, marginalized, and stigmatized as Conservative Right Wing angry white male homophobic, racist, bigoted, domestic terrorists.
Every time we prepare to utter an opinion we're descended upon by Leftists as we were a wheat field to hungry locusts. "Its hate speech, you don't care for the less fortunate, Oh! the misery, oh the agony, pain and despair." And this is even before we utter one word.
Some of us have come to the realization that Liberals and Conservatives cannot co-exist. If Liberals want a Liberal Socialist Utopia, then let them have it, but not on our dime and not in our Country.
The United States as and always will be a Country that is that stands for Conservative principles and ideas. We seek the truth through free expression and the exchange of ideas.
If Liberals want Socialism they need to look no further than Europe. Europe has a long history of Liberalism and Socialism. Conservatives were driven out of Europe many years and came to this Country to live in peace free from those who felt it was the King's responsibility to care for them.
My fellow Conservatives, we have but no choice to stand our ground and fight for our ideals. Because the answer is simple.
We have no other Country to escape to.
Blueglasnost| 7.2.09 @ 8:08AM
Being myself a French citizen, I'm in quite an outstanding position to tell you about the rout of socialized healthcare. Let's sum it up as follows: It's a gigantic boob trap which caters to the needs of two generations before being bankrupt, and thus turning into a bundle of untenable liabilities for future generations. Same goes for our pensions system. The French social security has long been genereated deficits, last year we boasted a €11 billion deficit, and that's not counting our combined deficits, both public and balance-account. Just as we're denied the fundamental right to defend ourselves with more credible instruments than bare fists, we're denied a choice in the way we want to care for our health. Theoretically, everyone ought to be entitled to healthcare in a socialized system but some are on outskirts who don't benefit from the system, while those in contribute to rapidly bankrupting the nation. The state is in the habit of turning its citizens into dependent infants, slowly stripping us of our rights under the false promises of more security. What we need is responsible individual, caring for themselves and their relatives, helping their friends and their fellow countrymen out of sheer generosity, and not because the IRS have frogmarched them into doing so, therefore extinguishing all the natural instincts that ought to guide any healthy people. What's the point of being independent if you've voluntarily surrendered the bulk of your liberties to an ever bigger government that pretends to care for all your everyday grievances? Big government and welfare states are destroying our liberties and the erstwhile good nature that used to guide our actions, turning it into pure greed and making Pods (i.e. individuals with no feelings but a sense of obedience to all-mighty Leviathan) out of citizens. And that bears true for all of the West, though to different extents.
Liberal Reader| 7.2.09 @ 8:10AM
I'm with Helen Thomas.
These stage-managed events are useless as forums for political debate and discussion. We had enough of this sort of thing under Bush. I do not approve at all of Obama carrying on that tradition.
However, it does NOT follow that because Obama is choosing this lame way of getting his point across that his point is invalid.
I've come to the conclusion that most people reading Am. Spec. and listening to Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity have not spent much time abroad.
The fact is that while Canada does have its problems, most other industrialized, modern democracies do NOT have the problems with health care that we face OR those that reactionaries say we would face with socialized medicine.
Folks, if you are in the middle class, YOUR HEALTHCARE IS BEING RATIONED.
We can drive costs DOWN by removing the administrative costs associated with denying people (that is to say, YOU) coverage far more than we ever could through tort reform. (By the way, I think the Republicans are right on that point, but it won't make a terribly large difference in the overall pricing system of healthcare.)
France, Germany, Sweden, Japan, and many other countries spend on healthcare about half what we spend as percentage of GDP and the results ARE BETTER. In every category, including innovation of new treatments, these countries compete with the U.S. The idea that people suffer in long lines waiting for essential treatment is a LIE being propounded by interest groups in this country.
Curly Smith| 7.2.09 @ 8:15AM
Big J, the new $1.6 trillion entitlement doesn't insure the 47 million uninsured. It provides insurance premium discounts to households with incomes below 500 percent of the federal poverty line. At most, it will help remove 1/3rd of the uninsured by chipping in on the cost of buying insurance. It's modeled after the widely acclaimed Massachusetts program signed by Mitt Romney. The same program that has created a massive mountain of debt.
Robert Rosencrans| 7.2.09 @ 8:18AM
From the beginnings of the nationalized health care in England, costs have been underestimated, and in fact, all health care has been rationed.
If you want to see what the future holds under a socialized health care system just hit the link below. Fasciniating reading about incompetency and unnessecary suffering.
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman/issues/healthcare/socialized.html
Great Britain's National Health Service (NHS) was created on July 5, 1948. As with all government programs, bureaucrats underestimated initial cost projections. First-year operating costs of NHS were 52 million pounds higher than original estimates1 as Britons saturated the so-called free system.
Many decades of shortages, misery and suffering followed until 1989, when some market-based health care competition was reintroduced to the British citizens2.
Unfortunately for those requiring care, a mostly socialist health care system has problems. The articles and commentaries in this section identify some disasters caused by government intervention in the British health care system.
I also recommend reading David G. Green and Laura Casper's economic report, Delay, Denial and Dilution: The Impact of NHS Rationing on Heart Disease and Cancer to see the inevitable outcome of the necessary rationing of government health care.
Straight from the newspapers
Kidney cancer patients denied life-saving drugs by NHS rationing body NICE
- April 29, 2009 [Daily Mail (UK)]
Blacque Jacques Shellacque| 7.2.09 @ 8:22AM
It's theater. Obama picks the actors in the play and the audience in the theater.
And if there's an emotional appeal, well, that's icing on the cake....
Nolanimrod| 7.2.09 @ 8:30AM
Mr. I Won is a millionaire. If he's so worried about this woman where was his checkbook?
Tom| 7.2.09 @ 8:50AM
Debbie is an example of someone under Obama's plan who will get a pain pill and no other treatment because care is rationed. Obama was too gutless to point that out. Health care is for the healthy. Goodbye and good luck all you Debbies.
notoobama| 7.2.09 @ 9:04AM
I still say, we'll take government run healthcare as long as it's the one that those in the beltway bubble are afforded. Ted Kennedy went to Duke for his brain cancer, Arlen Specter I'm sure had the best care available.
And to Liberal Reader, I am middle class and I spent most of my growing up years in countries outside of the United States as a military family member, so your theory on that doesn't fly with me. I have live in the Europe and the far east and while be most greatful for the experience of living in other cultures, I will take the USofA any day of the week. ESPECIALLY it's health care.
Melvin| 7.2.09 @ 9:06AM
Theater of the macabre and the absurd, and we are all extras.
Ryan| 7.2.09 @ 9:26AM
Lib reader - how many of those countries have systems propped up because of research done in America, paid for by Americans who bear the burden of R&D for new drugs and techniques?
Matthew Vadum| 7.2.09 @ 10:27AM
Another great piece, Phil.
Perhaps President Obama should offer to pay for Debby Smith's treatment out of his humongous political war chest. She is, in a sense, already his employee given that she volunteers for the DNC's Organizing for America.
See http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2009/07/02/obama_confronts_skeptics_on_healthcare_pledges_action/
JT in SC| 7.2.09 @ 10:34AM
Under Obama-Care....Debby would be dead already... The nation bankrupted, industry on its knees...and the rest of us standing in line waiting for asipirn tablets to treat prostate Or breast cancer....
Oh, that is unless the spectre of Swine Flu does not wipe us out first... Katie bar the door.
Been there, Done that| 7.2.09 @ 10:38AM
Liberal Reader,
Thanks, but I have spent time (14 years) in other countries with socialized health systems, and have been enrolled in these systems while I was in these countries. The systems are great; low cost, equal access...as long as you don't get sick. My infant once had the croup, we called for an appointment with the local pediatrician, and were given an appointment for five months later. I had acquaintances, one of whom had cancer, the other one had heart disease, who were simply told that the system would not help them, they would have to hire a private doctor and pay for the treatments themselves (and this was not in the second country I lived in, where private doctors were not even legal). So whereas I would agree that our system here in the US is not perfect and needs reform, why in the world would we reform it with the abject failures of other countries?
Joe| 7.2.09 @ 10:44AM
Liberal Reader, your a little off. They were started under Clinton and then dropped un Bush. They have now been pick up under another socialist/leftiest Obama.
mmw| 7.2.09 @ 11:06AM
I've come to the conclusion that Liberal Reader spends too much time listening to NPR and has not spent much time off campus since the 1960's.
Louis Jenkins| 7.2.09 @ 12:49PM
Are you afflicted brothers and sisters? Do you lay awake at night with certain pains and ills for which the best health care system in the world hath no explanation? Do you suffer from arthritis, lumbago, headaches, dyspepsia, menometrorrhagia, flat feet, dysconjugate gaze, impotence, or any other of the millions of ailments that afflict our downtrodden world? If you have faith in the messiah OBAMA just lay your hand on the TV and believe as he speaks via his teleprompter from the Whitehouse and you will be healed by Obama’s National Health Care Plan. Then just say the magic faithful words “Yes we can” and you will receive immediate immaculate blessings from Anointed One while your hard working neighbor’s checking account, personal property, and the very food on his table miraculously disappears. What a blessing to have such a divine healer as our leader!! BE HEALED!!
grzmlyk| 7.2.09 @ 12:53PM
I want to know whether if, "gaia" forbid, universal health care gets enacted in this country, those benighted individuals out there who lap up Obama's pabulum today, and who ooh and ah over government's putative benevolence and "fairness" in doling out "quality" health care, will admit they were wrong a few years down the road.
They'll have plenty of time to ponder the ramifications of their foolishness as they wait for treatment. And if that doesn't wake them out of their Obamastupor, maybe watching elderly loved ones effectively euthanized will.
Ain't it funny how our Empath in Chief possesses absolutely none of the very quality he was elected to infuse government with?
grzmlyk| 7.2.09 @ 12:56PM
Louis:
Praise Obama, I am healed! I am healed! Lordy, lordy, I can WALK!
I am a true believer!
gladtobeinamerica| 7.2.09 @ 2:12PM
Liberal reader;
Having lived in the Netherlands for 24 years I can tell you that socialized healthcare in those "other" countries (including Holland) is as crappy as in your example. For instance, I never had novacaine until I came to the States (imagine that, root canals and fillings done without it). After all, the insurance company didn't provide for it, so we didn't get it. My dad had glaucoma and was operated on one eye. The rationale: if you can see out of one eye, that's good enough. The professor of the clinic who did his operation called the dutch system "criminal" and asked him to come back the following saturday, when he operated on my dad's other eye free of charge. Another example: an aunt with kidney problems died in her early fifties. She wasn't a candidate for surgery, since she was "only a housewife" not a contributing member of society. Oh, and let me add, a lot of dutch people are going abroad for care these days rather than wait in line for "care". So much for your argument that healthcare in western europe is "better".
Tony in Central PA| 7.2.09 @ 2:45PM
My quote of the week comes from the blueglasnost post above in his description of the Welfare State, " ... extinguishing all the natural instincts that ought to guide any healthy people ". Amen.
LakeLady91| 7.2.09 @ 4:40PM
Dear "Liberal Reader", So glad for you hat you have enough bucks to "travel Abroad", I an my husband work very hard for our living, which includes our health care. I don't want YOU or anyone in the government telling me what health care I should get, and (especially) WHEN I should get it.. you say I am being "rationed" just like other socialist countries..well, one..n o I am not.. I get my care quickly and I get THE BEST CARE in the world. My doctors and I decided what to do, and when.. do I like the insurance industry? no, but it's better than turning my wonderful democratic republic into a socialist nanny state.. you with $$ could care less about the middle class and the poor.. but dear liberal reader guess what?.. many people don't want to get in line with the way you think; just because YOU say it's good doesn't make it so..leave us alone please.
Dennis| 7.2.09 @ 5:20PM
Oh Thank you Mr. President, oh dear god, I'm so happy you chose me, gracious god...maybe King Obama can include her on HIS plan.
Len| 7.2.09 @ 5:58PM
Liberalreader ignores basic things such as
1)rule of law; no constitutional authority to take anyone's money to directly benefit another individual, no constitutional authority to interfere or dictate to private citizens the conduct of their business. Conclusion, liberalreader advocates lawlessness and the triumph of the majority, rather than law and order, and the rights of the minority being protected.
2) Speaking of those rights, Liberalreader ignores the purpose, rightness and justice of government. That is, that government is formed for the protection of life, liberty and property/fruit of labor. When "government" takes one's property, or dictates to one to give it away(medical services provided) at less than just compensation, than "government has become perverted, and unjust and as such must be undone, and a just government reinstated.
3) Is like 2, government is not to be the provider for people. It cannot provide for one party without forcibly taking from another(perhaps on a very microcosmic scale such as a small town it is possible).
4) Follows from 3 and it is that the more any limited entity takes upon itself without its capabilities growing, then the less it will do well. In other words when the boobs in congress who already display such a lack of competence, attempt to involve themselves in all areas of life, then that which they have been elected to do will suffer, and that which they take upon themselves will then decline also.
5) Life is fragile and chaotic. We suffer, we break down, the rules of the universe cannot have a wand waved at them to make them compliant with our wishes,no matter how much legislation. How then can an appropiate amount of coverage/money/care be determined? It cannot. Again we all suffer in this life(yes we enjoy also),but this should remind us of the fragility of this life, and the futility of finding true satisfaction in the flawed and failing temporality known as life.
DaveS| 7.2.09 @ 6:30PM
Don't feel sorry for Helen Thomas, please! She has overstayed her spot in the front row for thirty years. She's only ticked because the 'arrangement' did not include her. Gibbs, supposedly brilliant press secretary, will have to resort to outright lying when the sarcasm is too thin for consumption. And Debby is a cancer survivor - by any measure - but should try to reduce her intake a little.
Pingback| 7.2.09 @ 8:56PM
Unto the Breach » Is the Media starting to wake up? links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Big J| 7.2.09 @ 9:42PM
I have nothing to add, just a question:
Why hasn't Liberal Reader come back with an intelligent, cogent and rather educated rebuttal? Where are you, Liberal?
Just drop a bomb, see where the dust settles and move on if it suits your purpose.
Another question: Why are people leaving Canada's (or Mexico's or Great Britain's or Tim Buck Two's) wonderful "universal health care system" to come to the United States? Our system is soooooo bad, yet people are flocking to this country in countless numbers to pay for the care they can receive here. Hmmmm....
First step: Remove head from sand (or rectal orifice, or wherever it is)
Second step: Accept facts as, well, facts (I know this part is difficult, but not as painful as you think).
Third step: STOP VOTING THESE POWER HUNGRY, FREEDOM KILLING, GREEDY LIARS INTO OFFICE!
You are killing the rest of us with your blind and ignorant vote. If you want socialism, go to a socialistic country. There are TONS of them around the world. If their hellth (misspelled on purpose) care is so great, go. Don't impose it on us. PLEASE.
That is all.
p.s. Yes, I said the same thing when the Evil George Bush was in office.
Osamas Pajamas| 7.2.09 @ 11:57PM
My favorite prez was Ronnie RayGun ---- and when Nancy laid her cheek and her hand upon his coffin in the funeral ceremony, my heart broke into a million pieces. These folks were easy to love.
Now look at this smooth-lying son of a bxtch, Barack Hushpuppy OhBummer. I don't want my neighbor's money ---- but OhBummer is willing to hijack it and give it to me in exchange for my vote and campaign money support ---- a kickback, in other words.
I don't want him or Uncle Sham to control my healthcare in any sense of the word "control." I don't want him to "speak for me" when he speaks publicly here or overseas. I don't want to see his face all over the place, nor hear his voice lecturing me, "Reality According to The Prophet OhBummer."
I don't want anything from him. The only good thing about him is his color ---- it's about time ---- given some very bad history. More important are his ideas, however ---- and they sxck.
Blueglasnost| 7.3.09 @ 6:09AM
Liberal Reader: That's true, France, Germany and Britain spend half as much as the U.S. on healthcare as a share of GDP, but ponder the results. Britain's NHS is one of the most inefficient health system all over the developed world: health is rationed, waiting queues DO exist, GPs are less numerous than they are in America, some worrying cases have been reported about people dying of supposedly benign diseases. You wouldn't like to live in such a system. As for France, it's been said to host the most 'efficient' health service all over the world, except we've got huge difficulties to man that service with proficient doctors, increasingly doctors come for parts of the world, such as South Africa, where standards are not quite the same. Besides, owing to our financing a system that's 100 % public (although not 100 % state-run in that the government has delegated much of it to private agencies), its rests upon taxation, which is more than confiscatory in France, considering it attains 45 % of our GDP. Standards are falling, albeit they used to be high. Administrative costs ham-strike the whole machinery, and drive us slowly towards bankruptcy, for--as I pointed out in a previous post--social security generates €10-11 billion deficits yearly, as for 2009, the deficit is expected to rise to €15 billion, that is a 50 % increase. Obviously, this may seem trifling to American ears, but in French standards (as compared to our significantly lower GDP in absolute terms as well as relative terms if one takes into account GDP per capita), it's quite huge.
Outside the disturbing consequences on economic prosperity, socialized healthcare is a disgrace to mankind, for it takes away the individual's responsibility, erases older forms of charity, and is profoundly alien to our traditions. It turns citizens into mere infants depending upon the good will of all-mighty Leviathan (or the EUSSR--anoon), just as we Europeans have been stripped of our natural rights to defend ourselves, if need be with firearms. Welfare states nurture dependence and over-reliance on the other instead of self-reliance or family solidarity. Besides, welfare states are delusory façades of solidarity, while they are actually destroying instinctive solidarity at the benefit of coerced 'solidarity'. As a matter of fact, dismissing your responsibility to the state is tantamount to preaching openly for selfishness: 'Care for that, for I don't, act in my stead and, more importantly, think in my stead'. You would be aware of that, had you been living in Europe as I still do (with the sole ambition of moving out as soon as possible).
Rudy| 7.3.09 @ 10:13AM
Discussing the cost of a single payer plan has to be put in terms of what an individual will have to pay. At this point roughly 20% of your labor will be needed to cover health care costs--add points for the bureaucrats to be acquired over time. If the coruptocrats do not play hide the nut (they will) another line should appear on paychecks and self-employment schedules extracting this amount--with no upper limits of earnings. When you point this out to your "needs reform" friends it usually shuts them up for a few seconds. They then come up with all kinds of fictions that someone else will pay. Far to many folks have been trained to get something for nothing.
The coruptocrats will see to it that the extraction process will be hidden from most workers with such things as employer 'penalties', VAT taxes, and -yes!- rationing. Just as with social security-only half the extraction appears on a workers pay stub- a token amount for health care will be taken from paychecks so that the worker FEELS that they are paying the whole shot. The reality is that no matter how health care payment is extracted labor must pay at least 20%-one way or another!
Liberal Reader| 7.3.09 @ 12:48PM
I have no witty rejoinders but I will say the following.
The evidence on care in France and other countries with socialized medicine is hardly diminished by a handful of anecdotes. People simply have longer life and fewer illnesses in these countries.
Consider this: in recent years when countries like Taiwan have looked around for national health care plans, NONE have imitated ours.
People in France would riot in the streets if the government decided to move towards our system.
Now, I do NOT think France's system would be good for us here. The U.S. is not France or Japan or Germany. The U.S. is the U.S.
But what the leading Democrats are proposing are patient coops -- essentially non-profit HMOs that by law could NOT drop people for pre-existing conditions or deny coverage for any member. These co-ops would be offered as competition with the private system that you all swear is working so well.
If it's working as well as you say, they'll hardly be any trouble for you.
There is no way in hell the Democrats will "force" anyone to accept this so-called "public option" -- which, by the way, will probably not end up being administered by the government. (It will most likely be administered by a consortium of private companies and overseen by the government -- as all insurance is.)
tom| 7.3.09 @ 1:10PM
Dear liberal reader.France,Germany,Sweden and Japan dont have one third the size of our population.Maybe we need to eliminate two thirds of our population before we try commie medicine.Socialism In every way is a dismal failure it is contrary to the natural human yearning of liberty and freedom!
ben dover n'grabim| 7.3.09 @ 4:49PM
Update from this article is that the Senate, our dear elected leaders, wish to punish those who won't march in goosestep with the healthcare plan by fining those who won't enroll $1,000.00. I suppose that prison is the next step for those who can't or won't pay the $1,000.00. This will create jobs though, for police and prosecutors and defense attorneys, and prison officials to handle the huge numbers who don't enroll. These dear leaders are planning, PLANNING, on non-compliance and are already planning on how to spend the money they may or may not get for non-compliance. Our ELECTED leaders, requiring us to enroll in a plan we may not want, fining us if we don't, and expecting non-compliance and planning on what to do with the money they steal from us. Congress has the constitutional authority to regulate revenue, how did they get the power to force us into a heathcare lan, take our money by force and possibly send us to jail for not complying with their orders? Is it time for pitchforks and torches on the steps of the Capitol? Tar and feather, and run some out of town on a rail? Oh, wait, frankly, Barney may like that.
John II| 7.3.09 @ 6:42PM
"I'm with Helen Thomas.
"These stage-managed events are useless as forums for political debate and discussion. We had enough of this sort of thing under Bush. I do not approve at all of Obama carrying on that tradition."
Liberal Reader: Excuse me, but we didn't have ANY of "this sort of thing under Bush." Bush's greatest failing was probably his resolute refusal to spin--which he carried to such an extreme that he simply didn't respond to the constant lies and exaggerations of a fiercely hostile press and media, nor did he take the trouble to communicate his policies clearly and regularly to the public.
There was a certain psychological plausibility to this pattern of quiescent politics. There are, after all, two forms of intellectual bondage, only one of which is slavish adherence to a party line; the other form is obsessive refutation. And if Bush had fought back against his vicious and mendacious political enemies, he might plausibly have been sucked into the latter form of bondage. And yes, there was a certain grace and elegance in his refusal to be sucked into.
But I think he carried it too far, or perhaps simply let it turn into a counter-habit, given the habitual, unrestrained hostility of his noisy enemies.
Excuse me again, Liberal Reader, but I think you're a fool to put Bush in the same cheap spin-world of the Prophet Obama and his ridiculous acolytes among the chattering classes.
And if you're not by now sorely embarrassed by the behavior of your liberal idols in the media, you have no capacity for shame.
I respectfully suggest that you and your kindred spirits therefore cut out the crap and grow up.
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Big J| 7.4.09 @ 9:05AM
Liberal Dreamer seems to miss the whole point. The other liberals located in Congress and the White House have no interest in the health of the American people. The ultimate goal is complete control over every aspect of our lives.
Once you understand the true nature of their intentions, I don't see how you could possibly support such a thing.
I again refer you to Medicare and Medicaid (and Social Security, while we're on the topic). Utter failures, each and every one.
Liberal Reader, why don't you try a little self-reliance? That attitude is what has made this country the greatest country on the planet. The government is not the alpha and omega, the solution to our problems. Heck, they can't even balance a budget. If you can logically explain how it is possible that they would manage universal health care better than they manage anything else, I might take your comments seriously.
"I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
Snort.
tonypal| 7.4.09 @ 11:39AM
Liberal Reader makes a quick comment on tort reform, then quickly dismisses it as inconsequential. I beg to differ.
Specifically, what must be reformed is the way juries award "punitive damages." Unlike compensatory damages, which are based on calculations of need and actual damages, punitive damages are a wild card that have no basis in reason. It simply comes down to whatever a jury feels like awarding.
Doctors bear the cost of these senseless damage awards in their med mal insurance. They pass these costs along to the consumer, thus driving up the cost of every single medical procedure performed in America. Now I'm not going to get into numbers, but it doesn't take much imagination to realize how much money this costs the consumer. Tort reform is not the answer to the high cost of medical coverage, but it's a damn good start.
NJK| 7.4.09 @ 11:56AM
I am one person, who is tired of having their intelligence belittled by this man. I was waiting for him to put his hand on her head, and shout, heal this woman! Doesn't he realize, we are not some third world, uneducated country who is falling for the snake oil, he is selling. Here is a link to a video, with Ezekial Emanuel, Rahm's brother, who Soetoro hired to help with his health care destruction, watch and you will realize, this Obama imposter needs to be stopped, before he decides your elderly parents aren't worth saving.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho-0SHFEgGo&feature=player_embedded
Obama Depopulation Policy Exposed! Red Alert!!!!!!
SarahW| 7.4.09 @ 12:41PM
Debby Smith's account of her treatment for primary RCC has aspects that make no sense. Conventional radiation therapy was known to be of negligible utility in the treatment of primary RCC, the cells are resistant to it. As an adjuvant it had no survival or relapse benefit and the treatment itself has severe toxic effects. It would not be used in lieu of surgery for an encapsulated kidney tumor.
Burlington| 7.5.09 @ 1:53PM
Obama went to VA for a staged health care reform "town hall meeting". The highlight of that was Debbie Smith, who allegedly suffers from recurrent cancer and can't afford care. She told a story and got a hug from Obama.
This woman claims that she opted for radiation therapy over an operation for kidney cancer because of her obligation to care for an invalid parent. This was in the 1990's. This is pure B.S. Radiation therapy for renal cell CA is a palliative treatment ,only for inoperable renal cancer and would never be offered as an alternative therapy to nephrectomy for the reasons she states. (renal is Latin for kidney and nephros is Greek)
The probability that she survived this long with palliative radiation for kidney cancer is very very low if not impossible.
She has worked for the DNC at least since 12/23/08. She claims to have been in the U.S. Marine Corp for 4 years and why wouldn't she not qualify for VA benefits??
I smell something bad!
catladyjan| 7.5.09 @ 3:43PM
Debby needs to lose weight....isn't that the next thing the liberal wackos intend to do? Force everyone to eat right? Let them start with Debby. What a crock of Sh--t that whole thing was. The Magic Negro must think everyone falls for his garbage.
JimE| 7.5.09 @ 6:11PM
Liberal reader moron, Sorry but I live in Japan, you have no idea what you are talking about. Anything beyond basic services (check-up, aspririn) you pay out of your pocket. Miss one monthly payment for health care insurance and you have none. Illegal aliens pay cash or they don't get service, no handouts for them. It's
also customary in Japan to tip the surgeon several thousand dollars for an operation.
Bob Knutson| 7.5.09 @ 7:37PM
I have spent many years in other countries. If you want a good look at socialized medicine, go to Iceland. They have cradle-to-grave social security. medical care is very cheap and good. fortunately, Icelanders are a hardy race. They also have no unemployment. Husbands and wives all work outside the home, most men hold two jobs. Cost of living is so high because of taxes and tarrifs on imports, smuggling is a way of life. Women find it cheaper to fly to Norway to shop for a day. Turn one of them loose in a military exchange at Keflavik, they'll think they've died and gone to heaven. Along with the three incomes from their jobs, they also rent out rooms or small apartments in their private homes. This is socialism at it's finest.
Ignant_dude| 7.5.09 @ 8:43PM
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2285474/posts
Backing up SarahW and Burlington. Debby should have left out the details and let a few more tears out. I realize they could count on reporters not checking out her story (they only check out plumbers), but people do still listen and think. Anyway, I found a new drinking game. Try to find a news article that names her type of cancer. Then take a drink every time you find an article that doesn't give any details about her but starts with "Fighting back tears..." -ucking -hic- fawesome fun
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