The American Spectator : The Pakistan Army: Reluctant Warriors

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The Pakistan Army: Reluctant Warriors

By Frank Schell on 5.12.09 @ 6:07AM

The world is depending on General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, whose army might be as reluctant as the Shah's to fire at its own people.

The Pakistan Army has profound links to the British Empire and has Western antecedents. Yet its engagement on its own soil with the Taliban, the antithesis of those values, has been sporadic at best. Thus far, the Pakistan Army has fought just enough to keep America at bay, but not enough to engage forcefully and dismember the Taliban.

This reluctance of the Pakistan Army was well set forth and explained in the essay of George H. Wittman posted May 6, 2009, "Pakistan's Time of Troubles," and perhaps this writing will add insights

The Pakistan Military Academy was set up after the partition of India in 1947 to be like the British model, the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst -- to train young sahibs to be gentlemen soldiers and to pass muster. In Pakistan, the officer corps has been traditionally an aristocratic profession. In terms of size, the Pakistan Army ranks as the seventh largest in the world. It is supported by the vested interests in Pakistan, particularly those families that control the means of production and distribution in the industrial and commercial provinces of Punjab and Sindh.

The Pakistan Army has been an elitist institution, its cadre of senior ranks directly ruling the country for much of the time since 1947. Some officers have cultivated the bearing and mannerisms of the pukka sahibs who begat them. Why then, with their fundamentally and initially Western training and outlook, do they seem to be mostly supine in the face of the advancing Taliban?

The answer in part is the grand obsession with India. For over sixty years, Pakistan has been an extension of its army, whose purpose is to take on the Republic of India. Three major wars have been fought since 1947 -- two over the Kashmir dispute and one over the secession of East Pakistan and emergence of Bangladesh -- plus there was an undeclared conflict in Kargil, high in the Himalayas in 1999. This perspective may have prevented Pakistan from seeing the greater enemy crossing and now within its borders, or developing a major counterinsurgency capability of its own. Moreover, the mujahideen have been useful to the Pakistani military through their infiltration across the Line of Control in Kashmir, causing the Indian Army to deploy substantial resources against an asymmetric intrusion.

Not only that, the U.S. has had a foreign policy of convenience in that part of the world -- like a 7-Eleven store high in the Khyber Pass of Afghanistan. Once the mujahideen were no longer useful against the Soviets, they were abandoned to then morph into the Taliban, with al Qaeda in their midst. The Pakistan Army leadership may well think that the American commitment to Pakistan is a tenuous one, and it would therefore be unwise to combat the emerging Islamist ideology.

Finally, the Pakistan Army, starting with General Zia-ul-Haq, became Islamicized in the 1970s, along with the ISI, the intelligence service. The bamboo, silver-tipped swagger sticks with regimental insignia, foppish hair styles, clipped moustaches and small pegs of whiskey have symbolically been replaced in some part by Islamic austerity and a partial rejection of those Western accoutrements. So in certain ranks there may now be some emotional affinity for the bearded men in dusty pantaloons toting AK-47s and RPGs in the North-West Frontier Province (NWFP) and Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA).

A lesson of modern history is that even the formidable and U.S. trained army of the Shahanshah Aryamehr of Iran would not, at the ultimate hour, stand and fight -- nor would it shoot at its own people when the revolution came in the late 1970s. The Iranian establishment and the foreign business and diplomatic community were in denial, thinking all along that their Shah would be strong. No matter what sophisticated armaments the Shah acquired to be America's gendarme in the Persian Gulf, they were useless against a new ideology.

This is not just America's fight against the Taliban and al Qaeda -- who are seeking WMD and threatening Pakistan's existence as we know it. The world is depending on General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, the highly credentialed Pakistani Chief of Army Staff who was previously head of the ISI. From a working class family near Rawalpindi, General Kayani holds a masters degree from the National Defence College in Islamabad. His bio also indicates that he is a graduate of the U.S. Army Infantry School at Ft. Benning and the Command and General Staff College at Ft. Leavenworth. In the absence of badly needed credible civilian leadership, it would then be up to the General and his commanders to set the tone for what they believe is good for Pakistan.

The Taliban presence about 60 miles from Islamabad does not bode well, and the Department of Defense should be reviewing and updating contingency plans for possible intervention and seizure of nuclear facilities in Pakistan, in the event that the Taliban directly threatens the capital or that the control of nuclear infrastructure appears endangered. But the most disturbing question is this: if the mayhem comes, on what side would be the critical mass of the Pakistan Army?

topics:
Pakistan, Taliban

About the Author

Frank Schell is a business consultant and former international banking executive. He serves on the Dean's International Council of the Harris School of Public Policy Studies, University of Chicago, where he is a guest lecturer, and on the editorial board of the Chicago-based National Strategy Forum, which focuses on national security issues.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (37) | Leave a comment

Omar Rahman | 5.12.09 @ 8:48AM

In your article- which i must admit is very well written from a grammatical point of view - there is absolute gibberish regarding the role of india in shaping the current taliban/al qaeda/whatever militants. Before 9/11 there was one Indian representative building in Afghanistan, the Indian Embassy in Kabul. After that, however, there are more than 5 consulates, all of them in Pak-Afghan border towns. Now that's just a silly co incidence right? i mean come on ...Did Indians have so much trade and tourism with afghanistan, that they had to immediately establish that many consulates- right next to the Paksitani border? Also, although a well informed and educated man would know this and im sorry if i insulted you, most of the weaponry captured from these so called taliban is of Russian or indian origin. Fast Fact- India's main arms exporter is Russia, not Jamaica. Just because india SAYS it is a democracy and holds elections every five years and has wonderful similarities with other non muslim states in the world that bow down to the Pentagon, doesnt mean it is an abode of angels. I mean why do they ask the US to shut down ITS nuke program first whenever the US asks to cut down on the indian nuclear production money?India is the second largest arms importer in the world after China. i guess they must have a lotta duck seasons there. Also although you may already know it, India has a significant-read "negative"- role in the current Lankan conflict with the Tamil Tigers. Not to mention trouble in Bangladesh and Nepal as well as Tibet, where does the Dalai Lama guy live? oh yeah in Fiji. Now i dont know about American journalists, but here in paksitan we consider journalists to be well versed with everything about the articles they publish, you know, to do their homework right. Therefore, i believe I do not need to give any cross references for the arguments i have provided since you seem to be so well informed about everything that is happening in Pakistan that you already have other essays on these subjects that you are too shy to bring forth or you could just google it if you like. We also trust journalists not to be funded from ELSEWHERE other than thru their own means. that is, a journalist gets his/her pay from the newspaper company not the -ahem- green paper companies. But a truthful gentleman like you who has absolutely no idea what sarcasm is also no idea whether a sahib is a hindi word or urdu ( but still write it in your article) would NEVER dream of decieving the american public- oh geez NEVER.
I just guess that, either you have never been to south asia and spoken with the common pakistani about why he is so GRANDLY OBSESSED with the innocent wittle india. Maybe because they violate the water treaties without any reason and that kargil war started AFTER indian soldiers were found on the siachen glacier which is a part of pakistan. Or perhaps you have an agenda that you would like to share with us? Come on, dont be RELUCTANT. Dont you all have one?

Kannan| 5.12.09 @ 9:15AM

^^ Omar Rahman is the sample of Pakistani mindset..
Take note..These bigoted guys have to be blasted with nukes so that the rest of us can live in peace..In many ways, his comments complements the article..

Moiz| 5.12.09 @ 11:24AM

Was a well written artical, it was some what objective then subjective. Although the comments left by ^^Kannan seem the typical of an indian, wishing the death and distruction of Pakistan and in general calling for a genocide of 172.8 million people. In comparison making the Nazi's look like angles. Irronically, how ever it is actualy your comment "kannan" which reinforces Omar's argument.

L. Ross| 5.12.09 @ 11:45AM

Wow. Omar Rahman. Dude, what an excellent diatribe. For what it is worth, I have been to Pakistan, used to lay over there with my airline. I have met the Pakistani "man on the the street". They are, like most people in the world, very, very nice. They women are drop dead gorgeous. The biggest problem with them, the biggest problem with that entire swath of the planet, is that they all belong to a death cult that is obsessed with a pedophile warlord who was quite likely schizophrenic. Islam is not good for a nation, nor is it good for the population of that nation. Islam is what drove the Pakistani movement for independence from India, so now they can't share in the success and rise in the standard of living that has occured in India.

HonestMan| 5.12.09 @ 11:47AM

Omar and Moin's responses are typical examples of Pakis trying blame the neighbor for their house on fire. Kannan's response, a typical Indian tired of his neighbor not letting him live in peace. These people are filled with hatred. What they dont understand is they have bigger threat of militants right amongst them. India may have already realized it but Pak is yet to realize who the real enemy is. Its time they concentrate on human development rather than weapons/missile deployment.

foolsparadise| 5.12.09 @ 12:52PM

Dear Mr. Omar Rahman Sir,

Firstly IMHO,
1> Indian consulate in Afghanistan -- http://www.embassiesabroad.com/embassies-in/Afghanistan
(both India & Pakistan has 5 Consulate each)
India is investing and genuinely trying to rehab Afghans with roads, hospitals, jobs in India etc, what Paki consulates are doing there? I think you forgot that, it was only YOU (Pakistan), who officially recognized Taliban regime in Afghanistan in entire World.

So anybody has right to open a consulate in World without taking anyone's permission, If you want to open more, I would say most welcome!!

2> Taliban Weaponry
That's correct, in fact Taliban are really rich with defined Narco Trade roots through Pakistan and Central Asia, with Stringer Missiles from US and other left overs from Russia. but, they became independent, when border areas in Pakistan became "Parallel Ordinance" factories and learnt to copy all the weapons.
LINK :- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9xf62PKC5M

3> Kargil, If you have heard Mian Mohammad Nawaz Sharif's name, who was the Prime Minister at the time on Kargil War, just double check his views about Mr. Musharraf and his role in Kargil, also, please do not forget that even Pakistan never excepted the bodies of slain'ed soldiers to bury them in Pakistan and repeatedly saying that they were Mujaheddin (or Taliban likes in today's context, which way you want to go now?? :-)) )

BUT ""GRANDLY OBSESSED"" is some thing I would take last,

4> GRANDLY OBSESSED -- Swear on anything whatever you believe on and tell us how many "Indian TV Channels" comes in every Pakistani house, how many you watch them & what was the latest Bollywood Movie you saw on your Pirated Cable TV network which does not pay anything to Indian Channel Companies..

Just quoting this article written by a Pakistani (himself on Bollywood and Indian entertainment Industry)
/*
"I am sure that at some level, allowing piracy of Indian films was considered a smart act of industrial sabotage by the Pakistani policy makers," says Ameed Riaz, the head of EMI Pakistan.

"Basically, anything that hurt India was considered kosher."
*/ BBC News Karachi, Aamer Ahmed Khan -- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4523089.stm

Thanks for reading !!

Jay999| 5.12.09 @ 1:57PM

62 years ago India and Pakistan began at the same starting line. Pakistsn for muslims who wanted out and India for the rest . The State of Jammu and Kashmir joined the Indian Republic. has been The Genghis Khans of Pakistan, have been fixated with India because they wants the whole of Kashmir, (they now occupies 1/3) and more, the logic being muslims are the majority religion in Kashmir. Never mind India has more muslims than all of Pakistan or in Pakistan itself religious minorities like Christians, Buddhists Hindus have been obliterated. By the same logic Pakistan can also claim parts of Europe (France,Sweden, Denmark etc) or USA (Detroit MI or Lodi CA)where muslims have begun to dominate. So its entire focus has been to breed and shelter attack dogs like the Taliban, Lashkar E Taiba, Al Quaida and 1000 others, via its vast network of Madrassas. Its schools shame Palestinian five year olds in their hatred of their neighbor because the textbooks they read preach more hate than the textbooks you see in Saudi schools in Washington DC. Every terrorist action including 911, 711,1125, the atacks in Britain have all one thing in common. Thery were all hatched in Pak.

Dirt poor India (remember it has no resources or benefactors like Saudi or USA) has managed t survive even prosper while being a noisy, multi cultural, multi religious democracy. While its middle class and institutions have sunk deeper in hopeless quagmire, the attack dogs that Pakistan has bred so assidiously over 62 years are now coming for Pakistan's own jugular.

America dont waste your treasure. The Pak establishment which has fathered this Cauldron of Hate (AQ Khan included), will never raise a hand even if the Khan's nuclear eggs fall into Taliban's hands.

Tim| 5.12.09 @ 1:59PM

The current US administration is unlikely to unilaterally seize Pakistan's nuclear arsenal. It may not be possible. It's the sort of emasculating defeat of an enemy that western liberals despise.

In any event the people of India are unlikely to trust in American diplomacy to prevent their annihilation at the hands of barbarians. A Taliban victory in Islamabad may trigger an Indian nuclear strike.

KRA| 5.12.09 @ 3:18PM

http://www.newsy.com/videos/pakistan_unites_against_taliban/

Finally, the Pakistani government and the people are untied against hatred. The US needs to support Pakistan, but not get involved, such maneuvers would lead to another Iraq.

foolsparadise| 5.12.09 @ 3:24PM

@Aaron (What is really interesting is that the only fix for Pakistan is for them and India to hash out their problems once and for all.) -- Actually this is a ""MYTH"", Islamic R. Of Pakistan, would not even stand as ONE nation if it becomes a friend to India, because,
1> there is no ONE flavor of Islam like in Middle-East in Pakistan
2> Huge sentiments of regionalism prevails and are often very hostile with each other
3> perhaps, first and only cast based Islamic Society
4> Several languages, inherited from India
5> Different Cultural Identities, again unlike any other Islamic countries. e.g a Pashtun and a Mohajirs are very hostile to each other in cities like Karachi & Peshawar.
etc.

Since it was built in the name of Islam and a land other than but out of India, It always remained in a race with India to prove (its) History right. Also, these are the only two factors can keep Pakistan together & no wonder, this has been the Foreign Policy all over the years.
Pakistani People are very much like Indians, but to keep them separate as one country, the leaders of this country always charge them with anti-Indian sentiments(kind of Superiority Complex), that also, vindicate them of providing basic necessities, in short Look India, drink India, eat India, & everything India, but at last don't forget to Blame India when anything fails or runs short, and that was the only popular public movement till recently (or before long march for Chief justice).

No Wonder if you have ever seen a Govt/ Military Official statements categorizing another country as ENEMY NUMBER 1 :-)

Being an Indian (as many are), Its feels like your neighbor is standing on his gate and staring at you for 62 years :-), damn!!
thanks for reading!!

dd| 5.12.09 @ 4:19PM

Great, insightful article! It gives an indication that at least some people have started to understand the basics in Pakistan. A good start, considering what the famous Chinese writer Sun Tsu said, "To win a war, know your enemy".

Omar's response gives a convenient example of some (though not all) of the problems of Pakistan. Pakistan habitually blames everyone else for their problems and wrongdoings. For Pakistan, India is and has been a favorite fall guy.

If a Pakistani scientist (of course, in an imaginary situation) found some strange spots on say, Saturn, the whole of Pakistan will unite to blame India:) People like Omar will argue even if their arguments become funny & entertaining to others.

Coming back to understanding the enemy, not many people have recognized the role played by one state of Pakistan - Punjab. After studying Pakistan's history, we find that the state of Punjab and it's people, the 'Punjabi', are really the root cause of most of Pakistan's problems.

A little research on the Punjabi involvement in military, politics, economics, religious intolerance, aggressive maneuvering & direct/indirect attacks, vis-a-vis India, EU & US could be very enlightening.

PROFMCF| 5.13.09 @ 3:10PM

I WAS IN INDIA AT THE TIME OF THE PARTITION. IT WAS AGREED AT THAT TIME THAT THE FUTURE OF KASHMIR WOULD BE DECIDED BYA VOTE OF THE PEOPLE LIVING IN KASHMIR. WHEN THAT VOTE WA TO BE TAKEN THE NEW GOVERNMENT OF INDIA REFUSED TO ALLOW IT AND (HAVING INSTALLED A HINDU MAHARAJAH THERE) SIMPLY ANNEXED KASHMIR TO INDIA.

INDIA HAS SURPRESSED THE KASHMIRIS SINCE 1947 TO PREVENT THEM EXERCISING THEIR RIGHT OF SELF DETERMINATION. THE CONSTANT WARS BETWEEN INDIA AND PAKISTAN ARE BASED IN THIS CORRUPT ACT.

SEVERAL WRITERS HAVE SAID THAT THE MOSLEM POPULATIO OF INDIA SHOULD NEVER HAVE SEPARATED AND THAT THEY ARE 'PARANOID' ABOUT BEING PART OF INDIA. BUT THE SURPRESSION OF THE MOSLEM TAMILS IN SRI LANKA THAT LED TO THE HORRIBLE REBELLION THERE AND THE SLAIUGHTER OF MOSLEMS IN ULTRA NATIONALIST PARTS OF INDIA ARE CLEAR REASONS FOR MOSLEMS TO WANT NO PART OF INDIA.

THIS DOES NOT EXCUSE THE FANATIC ISLAMIC TERRORISTS. NOR DOES IT FORGIVE THE GROSS INCOMPETENCE OF THE CIVILIAN GOVERNMENTS OF PAKISTAN VIS A VIS THE TALIBAN. BUT THE TALIBAN WERE OF THE US's CREATION AS A RESULT OF SUPPRT FOR THEIR PREDECESSORS AGAINST THE RUSSIANS. JUST AS THE mAO-mOA IN KENYA RESULTED FROM THE SAME TYPE OF SUPPORT BY GERMANY AGAINST THE ENGLISH IN 1917.

EACH SIDE MUST TAKE SPECIFIC STEPS TO END THIS MESS BEFORE THAT ENTIRE PENNINSULA ENDS UP A SMOKING RADIOACTIVE RUIN.

KASHMIR HAS TO BECOME A SEPARATE STATE INDEPENDENT OF BOTH NATIONS AND PAKISTAN HAS TO CLEAN ITS CORRUPT GOVERNMENT OUT.

BUT NO ONE WHO HAS NOT BEEN THERE SHOULD INDULGE IN SNIDE REMARKS AND BIGOTED COMMENTARY ABOUT EITHER NATION AND THINK THEY HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO A SOLUTION.

foolsparadise| 5.13.09 @ 4:54PM

@PROFMCF

This policy of "Separatism" or creating "Separate Lands" is what Pakistan is Paying by creations of separate land in its own territory. Just watch out.

The problem with Muslim(not Moslem) world is they always think of creating separate things for themselves to the extent of creating Planet Earth in to Earthistan. This will never stop (as Islam is very clear in this respect) , for e.g. if you get Kashmir as separate (or with Pakistan) Nation (which I wish you should, as all Muslims of Kashmir will also know the difference of living in free land or with Taliban-ised Pakistan, but its not just Muslims, there are Hindus and Sikhs also in Kashmir, also India rejects this basic in principle of creating separate nations based on cast/culture/religion, So GO FLY a KITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ) will you not liberate your Muslim Brothers living in other part of India or world???>?????>???

Islam is a Political force and no Religion, has nothing to with the God and its creation but to do with only those who keep beards and wear long tunics to show they are Islamic.

By the way, people living in Kashmir(NOT INDIAN, but PAKISTANI), have started voicing against Taliban and their merger with India as to do business in India and live in Peace.

Thank for Reading!!

foolsparadise| 5.13.09 @ 4:55PM

@PROFMCF

This policy of "Separatism" or creating "Separate Lands" is what Pakistan is Paying by creations of separate land in its own territory. Just watch out.

Islam is a Political force and no Religion, has nothing to with the God and its creation but to do with only those who keep beards and wear long tunics to show they are Islamic.

By the way, people living in Kashmir(NOT INDIAN, but PAKISTANI), have started voicing against Taliban and their merger with India as to do business in India and live in Peace.

Thank for Reading!!

Richard Baker| 5.13.09 @ 7:24PM

Pakistan and India want a war with each other in the worst way. Since both are nuclear armed and with corrupt and irresponsible governments, they will probably get what they want. If the Irish could bury the hatchet with the Brits after centuries of disagreement, are we to believe that two of the oldest nations in history are beyond that which the Irish achieved? Maybe what India and Pakistan need is whatever the Irish are drinking.

dd| 5.14.09 @ 5:09AM

"Pakistan and India want a war .."
More pertinent would be "a Muslim nation and a non-Muslim nation..".

"If the Irish could bury the hatchet with the Brits.."
If either Ireland or Briton was a Muslim majority country, I wonder what could have happened.

"what India and Pakistan need is whatever the Irish are drinking."
Though I like them all, neither Guinness, Murphy's, nor Beamish would work in this case. What will work is this: Either Pakistan becomes non-Muslim or India becomes Muslim (it's already 15-20% Muslim; there are more Muslims in India than Pakistan), only then the hostilities will stop or will be minor as compared to the last 60 years.

People can check out the history of Muslim conquests starting from Mecca & Media & projecting outwards. Nations fell like dominoes.

From that perspective, India has proved to be problem for the Muslim Juggernaut. Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Malaysia and Indonesia all fell in line & bowed down to Islam. But not India, at least not so far.

If India falls to the Muslim onslaught, EU, USA & China would be next in line & in a grave danger.

And the Muslims don't have to convert 100% of population. In a democracy, only 20-25% Muslim vote block is enough to gain power. The current 15-20% is already showing it's muscle!

The greatest fortune, the series of Muslim conquests had for the last 1400 years: People liked to watch and do nothing if a house down the block from their house was burning! Some were even happy and some even surreptitiously added oil to the fire because they didn't specially like the owner of the burning house!

profmcf| 5.14.09 @ 11:10AM

the incoherent bigoted diatribe of 'FOOLSPARADISE' is not worth a reply.

but both 'dd' and Richard Baker have expressed commonly held beliefs that do ned to be addressed.

'dd' says we should "...check out the history of Muslim conquests." We should. But when we do that we should also check out the conquests of the Christian European nations France, England and Spain. They conquered more territory and subjugated more people in South America, Africa and Asia than the so called "Muslim Juggernaut" ever dreamed of.

I also suggest that 'dd' check the facts about Malaysia and Indonesia. Islam did not get there through conquest. If any religion would have taken root through conquest it would have been the Dutch Reformed Church in Indonesia and the Anglican Church in Malaysia.

Richard very correctly notes that the Irish and Brits made peace...etc. I believe he was referring to the Northern Ireland accords brokered by Mitchell of the US and the government of the Irish Republic. But the Brit's were involved only to try and control the violence. No one in Britain wanted to be there, they just couldn't get out, in the same way we are stuck in Iraq trying to smother the civil war between Shia and Sunni there. The Ulster Protestants and the Ulster Catholics were engaged in an Iraqi type civil war.
It ended through mediation and the exhaustion of the Ulster people on both sides. No one was 'drinking' anything.

As to corrupt governments, living in Chicago I tremble to accuse any government of corruption. We have become so adept at it that we have a separate building in our state prison system for convicted governors and legislators. That is a flaw in any democracy and despite the caustic remarks India and Pakistan are flawed democracies.

But Richard's main point is right on target when he asks "...are we to believe that two of the oldest nations in history are beyond that which the Irish achieved?"

Like Ulster, there is no 'solution'. There can only be compromise and acceptance that many
'wrongs' will not be corrected. Nelson Mandela recognized this and brought healing and peace to a failed nation through a reconciliation process that did not try to redress those wrongs but only to get all the people to accept that they cannot move into the future constantly looking backwards to the past.

Sooner or later that will have to happen in the Indian subcontinent if a Nuclear slaughter is to be avoided. Lets pray its sooner. But continual references to the 'Moslem onslaught' or that 'India and Pakistan want war...in the worst way' or claiming that 'Islam is a Political force and no Religion, has nothing to with the God' will only perpetuate the conflict not resolve it. If we cannot even make comments in this blog without snide, caustic, inflammatory remarks, how can we believe there will ever be an end to the very real danger this conflict poses.

Omar Rahman| 5.14.09 @ 1:43PM

i feel pity for the people who think islam is the cause of whatever problems they face. islam is a great religion and there is no doubt about it. people critisize it just the way they critisize any religion, only because they have little knowledge of either's actuality. i will not hesitate to say that there are radical muslims everywhere, who out of their emotional upbringing and/or other reasons, try to prove their arguments using the very tools and means that islam does NOT permit. for example, the word jihad, which means STRUGGLE, and not death to America, got reinvented by the media and caught on. So did the image of the women in islam. jihad can be done by anyone( even the enlightened FOOL'S PARADISE). you dont have to carry an AK for that (in metal or keyboard form-like Foolsparadise), you just have to prove that God exists thru peacuful tactics. That is the purpose of jihad, not slaughter of innocent people. You will hear different people saying that these taliban and alqaeda are not muslims, and they are right. i watched on a news channel an interview of a pakistani soldier who was in a hospital ward. he said that they captured about 20 of those so called muslim taliban during a mission, and none of them could recite the First Qalma when asked. i dont know what it is called in English, but FYI know that the First Qalma basically says that there is no God except Allah and mohammad is his last prophet. it is the basis of a muslim's belief. The taliban advertise themselves as THE best muslims. each and everyone of them. they cant recite the qalma?
They are NOT muslims, while i dont have any proof youtube links like the enlightened FOOLSPARADISE (since im no geek, and neither do i care since the truth eventually reveals itself) nor do i have much time (since i am heavily engaged these days in relief work for swat victims). but i would like to say something before i leave.
Pakistan has not realized that it has enemies elsewhere than india, but india has? OK, i accept. but maybe that is because pakistan is not the only state in conflict with india. indian people have other ENEMIES on their mind as well. that includes China, although they would blush and reject it almost instantaneously, not to forget sri lanka, nepal and bangladesh. PLUS their very own lower castes like the Untouchables and minority christians that they kill on a daily basis. (google that fools, "yawn") now i think that since indians are angels, imported directly from heaven itself (in Maersk containers i suppose) , their neighboring states would have to be either 1) mental or 2) ingnorant or 3) both for fighting against these angels. i mean why come tanzania, or luxembourg, or australia havent any conflicts with india? well i guess they would need to bring their landmass up the indian ocean and attach themselves to india. only then the indians like foolsparadise would show their true golden colors (no they wont show it to the white aussi i guess, another typical indian shrewdness) and the new neighbor would grow JEALOUS and start fighting with the innocent indians.
Hey Fools-im-desperate-to-improve-indian-image-paradise:
make a billion consulates, but in northern or western afganistan for once. the af-pak border towns are already flooded...i guess you love us so much you cant bear the separation. of course india would help afghanistan, you help every human being, including the Dalai Lama and Mujeeb-ur-Rahman. so generous.

I dont watch your bollywood. thank the Lord. its all second hand remakes of american movies and reality shows with added nudity, approval of disrespectful values that even the west considers as lewd, and nothing i've not already seen with better script and acting in the original hollywood versions. i gift this site to you : www.amishrakefight.org/gfy

Richard Baker| 5.14.09 @ 1:47PM

To profmcf:
Is it snide to notice that both countries want the other vanquished? Upon what then could their disagreements be based? Cricket, field hockey, or soccer? Regardless of their motivations, these two poverty stricken nations seem obsessed with each others demise. Or is that snide to say?
Conflict resolution techniques won't have much effect when the national honor and pride is involved. Speaking the reality of this situation isn't negative, it just is.

Richard Baker| 5.14.09 @ 1:56PM

To Omar Rahman:
I've read the Koran. It strikes me as a warrior code similar to Japanese Bushido used in WWII. Man is flawed, regardless of his race, nation or social position. The Koran is being used by the Moslem crazies to justify any and all insane behavior and the other Moslem countries are using this perversion as an instrument of state policy to avenge Charles Martel and distract their populations from the dictatorships at home. If our system is so unrighteous, please feel free to return to your glorious homeland. I'll pay your way with a First class airfare to wherever.

Richard Baker| 5.14.09 @ 4:29PM

To Omar Rahman:
I'll pay your airfare but then you have to GO.

Omar Rahman| 5.15.09 @ 6:07AM

why dont you use that money to get yourself a new ticket to pakistan and come see me here? ive never been to the US. i live in islamabad, the capital of pakistan, my dim witted friend. do a whois or IP check if you want.
you see, all indians might have gone to america, but most of us pakistanis like to stay back. and you dont need to bother to send any pakistanis back to the GLORIOUS HOMELAND, as in about another few years virtually all american jobs would be taken over by indians and so pakistanis would have to leave one way or another. get a life, and dont judge the geographical location of a person without first moving the gears of your brain.

dd| 5.15.09 @ 7:38PM

Here is a one of the very rare 'sane' article published (but not available online anymore) in a Pakistani newspaper.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk:80/default.asp?page=2009511story_11-5-2009_pg3_5
----
DAILY TIMES (of Pakistan)

May 11, 2009

OPINION: A monstrous experiment —Nasir Abbas Mirza

Remote madrassas may be turning boys into drones but then there are thousands of madrassas spread all over Pakistan’s urban centres that are producing millions of neo-drones who may not become suicide bombers but are totally unfit to live in this world. These kids need to be rescued

Take a little boy and incarcerate him in a remote madrassa. Keep him far away from the rest of the world and bar any interaction with humanity. Indoctrinate him with a distorted version of a religion and tell him that he does not belong to this world. Teach him about the fanciful world that awaits him in the heaven, and that in order to attain that he has to destroy everything that stands in his way, including his own body.

By the time he is sixteen, the child would have become a drone: an un-manned man. Instead of a lively teenager, we would have a robot in living tissue ready to detonate on remote orders.

At full steam ahead in Pakistan, this is a monstrous experiment in brainwashing and it is on a par with, if not worse than, Nazi Germany’s eugenics. They did it in the name of science; here, it is being done in the name of God and religion. On a very large scale, this is a hugely successful experiment in which nurture triumphs and nature takes a beating.

Are we really prisoners of our genes? Or are we prisoners of our parents, teachers and societies? From what we are witnessing, genetic influences are secondary to environment.

Behavioural scientists have Nobel Prize-winning research material in Pakistan. Freud, Skinner or Pavlov would have worked nights to study this. Pavlov’s dogs salivated at the sound of a bell; this young man would blow himself up at the sound of a bell — his phone bell. “Give me a child until he is seven, and I will show you the man,” goes the old Jesuit saying.

It may be sinister, the Jesuit saying, but the fact remains that nobody understands the vulnerability of a child’s brain better than priests. On the one hand, witness the vigilance of parents when they let a maulvi sahib into their house to teach the Holy Quran to their children; and, on the other hand, there are parents in the same society who ‘give’ a child to madrassa-running priests not until he is seven, but until he is 14 or 15 or forever.

‘Give’ is a generalisation. Given our attitudes towards birth control, an overabundance of young children is a natural outcome. In population growth, we are not too far behind the 6 percent population growth rate of our role model country, Saudi Arabia. There is an endless supply of young boys for madrassas. There are abducted, orphaned or abandoned young boys. Then there are parents who are too poor to bring up a child. They simply sell or donate their boys for tabligh or jihad or for any other religious duty. The religious pretence converts their dastardly act into a noble deed.

Priestly abuse of children has been going on for as long as there have been priests and children. But never has this been done in such an organised manner as is the case here in Pakistan. This abuse (aside from the pervasive sexual abuse) spells disaster. Just step out of a large city and all you would see around you are hundreds and thousands of little children — from six to thirty-six months old. Until these kids are of an age to observe the ways of their elders, they live and behave like untrained dogs. That’s the real Pakistan and no military or political leader is having sleepless nights over this.

Mismanaging the national security state has kept our governments so busy that social uplift has been low on their priorities. For sixty years we gave all our money for security and today we don’t even have that. Even in a perfect world, our leaders couldn’t have done anything about it. The job at hand is beyond their capabilities. Just take a roll call of our leaders in the last thirty years. They have been such a simple and basic lot that protocol and property left them no time for anything else.

Will this ever change or improve. No, not for another thirty years. That’s thirty years after we do the needful: that is, a drastic reduction in the number of children we produce, modern education for all on war-footing basis and to do this, schools and First World-standard teachers. So start counting once all this is in place.

From Zia to Zardari, and all others in between, no one even acknowledged that we have an overpopulation problem. Such is the fear of backlash from religious conservatives.

Here’s the equation: a population that breeds likes rats equals poverty equals despair equals cannon fodder for religious organisations and terrorist networks. Were these children better off working at motor workshops or making carpets? Perhaps the ILO or an NGO can answer this question. They seem awfully quiet on something much worse than child labour.

There’s a reason for that: in matters of faith or religious beliefs, no one dare object. All kinds of evil, illegal or inhuman practices can be given sanction if a particular religion or sect proves that it is part of its belief. You could be dying in a hospital but no one would give you a hallucinogenic drug to save your life. But, hey, you can get official approval for the use of cannabis or other hallucinogenic drugs if you prove that use of these substances is part of your religious belief. In 2006, the US Supreme Court did just that.

Our children face a frightening future not because of the Taliban (they are just a handful) but because of the ultra-conservative wave of religion that has swept this country. Remote madrassas may be turning boys into drones but then there are thousands of madrassas spread all over Pakistan’s urban centres that are producing millions of neo-drones who may not become suicide bombers but are totally unfit to live in this world. These kids need to be rescued.

Alfred Hitchcock, the great movie director who specialised in frightening people, was once driving in Switzerland when he suddenly pointed out of the car window and said, “That is the most frightening sight I have ever seen.” It was a priest in conversation with a little boy, his hand on the boy’s shoulder.

Hitchcock leaned out of the car window and shouted, “Run, little boy! Run for your life!”

The writer is a freelance columnist

Richard Baker| 5.15.09 @ 9:49PM

And just where do you think Mr. Hitchcock is spending HIS eternity? So Jesus was just a propagandist? Dear Alfred must be enjoying his eternity.

Ufi shah| 5.16.09 @ 8:49AM

Totaly agreed with Mr. Rehman. This s such an example of the neferious design of the anti Pakistan elements ( they may be a wolf in the clothes of lamb or open) to defame and discredet the Army and the ISI. They all are living in a fools paradise as Pakistan will exist and survive. Pakistan was came into being for existance.

Ufi shah| 5.16.09 @ 8:49AM

Harsh| 5.25.09 @ 3:49PM

Pakistan's problems stem from the fact that its a country...not a civilisation..All it is but an accident of history founded on the basis of fanaticism and seperatism ...heinous ideologies which will never find respect. what can happen to a nation built on the values of hate and segregationism ... India has seen at one point, a muslim president, a sikh prime-minister and a roman catholic chief-woman of a country which is over 81% Hindu...imagine that happening in pakistan or bangladesh? hah

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Pakistan amry is indeed reluctant warriors. They have nursed, taliban from the start, and now can't point their guns on them. Pakistan's ISI has been using these terrorists to wage a proxy war with India, and very successfully, for more than 20 years, AFTER the americans had left Afganistan, after the USSR was defeated. What on earth is Pakistan looking to do with these terrorists now, who have an absolute heaven in Pakistan, with training, money, support and direction from Pakistan's army. Pakistan's army runs 70% of the country's economy, directly and indirectly. So, even if any aid is given, which is non military, it ends up feeding the Pakistani army. Forget what the people of Pakistan want or think, Pakistani army is in the drivers seat. Genocide in Bangladesh, would put the Nazi's to shame. Pakistani bloggers tend to mix emotions and facts and bring out the sort of confusion, that is prevailing in the country. Pakistan has failed to be a democracy : Fact. Pakistani army supports and trains taliban : Fact. Pakistani army was solely responsible for genocide in Bangladesh : Fact. Pakistani army controls upto 70% of the country's economy: Fact. Pakistani army has given refuge to every terrorist absconder of the law from India : Fact. Pakistani army was behind the country when they recognized the Taliban govt. in Afganistan : Fact. Pakistani army run terror camps have trained most, if not all 9/11 terrorists : Fact. Pakistani army is also one of the largest consumer of alcohol in the country : Fact. Pakistani army has hanged the countrys only, and so far slightly sensible politician Z.A.Bhutto : Fact. Why the hell would it be interested in turning a gun onto its benefactors and partners in crime, terror and thinking. Infact, JeM's founder was having dinner as recently as 3 weeks ago, with a senior Pakistani army general : Fact. I haven't yet gone into how the army has ruined the entire fabric of the country for decades to come. Talk with facts, opionions matter but if they are not substanciated with facts, they don't carry any weight. As for India vs Pakistan, people on both sides want peace. But in Pakistan, there are multiple centres of power for half the time, and for the other half when Pakistani army is in charge, there are wars , or preperations for towards them. It was Pakistani army which has always initiated war with India : FACT.

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