The American Spectator

drudge ette obama| 3.4.09 @ 6:57AM

Unlike eating fish on Fridays, abortion is not a minor issue in the Catholic Church. It's a make or break issue. Why is it that people so fundamentally opposed to the prolife position of the Catholic Church continue to call themselves Catholics? Their concept of religion must be more cultural than belief-based. Like Pelosi, Kerry, Kennedy, & Biden..... their mommas made them do it and they don't have the strength to find a more compatable religious sect. Phony religious folk make me suspect of all their other parts.

Like those who spend 20 years at the knees of Rev. Wright, like Obama and his bare-armed wife, Michelle.

Eugene Brennan| 3.4.09 @ 7:18AM

I am beginning to believe that our current crises in our Country may just bea resultof the reckless and sinful lifestyle our country has allowed, particularly 51,000,000 abortions (murders) and a total loss of a Moral Compass in our Political and Business dealings.

" For evil to succeed, all that is required is for good Men to do Nothing".

Sandra| 3.4.09 @ 7:20AM

Please stop using the title CATHOLIC. A practicing Catholic does not support abortion.
That is the bottom line. All those 'catholic' senators, mayors, governors, representatives, presidents and vice presidents....are excommunicated from the Church if they suppor this vile act.....whether or not they are told so or not...they are living in a state of mortal sin.
All CATHOLICS KNOW THAT FACT!

Rocco| 3.4.09 @ 7:24AM

Drudge Ette:

They ARE cultural Catholics - you accept all or you accept nothing. A review of the Church's teachings from the beginning show a consistent position against abortion:

1) THE DIDACHE (90 A.D.): (otherwise known as the teachings of the 12 Apostles) - "You shall not kill by abortion the fruit of the womb and you shall not murder the infant already born."

2) TERTULLIAN (150 - 240 AD): "To prevent birth is anticipated murder; it makes little difference whether one destroys a life already born or does away with it in its nascent stage. The one who will be a man is already one."

3) ST. AUGUSTINE (354 - 430 AD): "Their licentious cruelty, or their cruel licentiousness, sometimes goes to such lengths as to procure sterilizing poisons and if these are unavailing, in some way to stifle within the womb and eject the fetus that has been conceived. They want their offspring to die before it comes to life or, if it is already living in the womb, to perish before it is born. Surely, if they are both of such a mind, they do not deserve the name of husband and wife; and if they have been of such a mind from the beginning, it was not for wedlock but for fornication that they became united. If they are not both of such a mind, then I will venture to say that either the woman is the mere mistress of the husband, or the man is the paramour of the wife."

4) POPE STEPHEN V (885 - 891 AD): "That person is a murderer who causes to perish by abortion what has been conceived."

This position continued up through the present, from Pope Pius IX's condemnation in 1869.

Our Democrat so-called Catholic brethren are indeed phonies.

John| 3.4.09 @ 7:28AM

The likes of Pelosi et al. are politicians before Catholics. However, education is the pro-abortion movement's worst enemy and with an ever-louder debate going on with abortion, the people will become educated.

Rocco| 3.4.09 @ 7:33AM

The Catholic (Christian) perspective arose from the Jewish position in the old Testament. There are numerous pro-life passages in the Old Testament which attest to that.

Rocco| 3.4.09 @ 7:35AM

John, you are right. Plus science has enlightened us more on this since Roe v. Wade, and tends more to a pro-life position. People, thankfully, are becoming more educated.

Melvin| 3.4.09 @ 7:39AM

I don't know and maybe it's because I might be a Neanderthal, but using abortion as casual birth control a little drastic?
There are multitudes of birth control methods for men and women and it is difficult to fathom that a woman regardless of how liberated she might consider herself to be to resort to such a medical procedure.
Maybe it stems from that Pelosi, Kerry, Kennedy, & Biden come from an age that was filled with radical feminism of, "Burn the bra, and all males were male chauvinistic pigs," and abortion was used more as a political weapon and or statement to inform those that men don't have control over me, and me especially don't have control over my body and it hasn't changed because we still have the same political harpies banging their temperance tambourines chanting in a almost catatonic state, "abortion, abortion, abortion."
Nancy Pelosi just had a audience with the Pope and he should have put his faith first by not granting her the audience and excommunicated her.
Pelosi, Kerry, Kennedy, & Biden are Catholics in name only because a person either supports his or her faith or they don't, there is no splitting hairs, no middle ground, you're either a Catholic or nor not period.
Liberals have so bastardized religion in this country that no one knows what the hell to believe in anymore.

Sandra| 3.4.09 @ 7:49AM

/I don't know and maybe it's because I might be a Neanderthal, but using abortion as casual birth control a little drastic?/
MELVIN...you are correct...I have wondered that myself...with all the FREE BIRTH CONTROLL AVAILABLE why is it that any 'woman' would need to avail herself of such a barbaric act as abortion.
There is certainly MORE birth ocntroll today than what our parents and grandparents had and they survived families of 7 and 8 children, during a depression with NO GOVERNMENT HELP WHAT-SO -EVER!...could it be a testament to the character of our forfatherss and the fact that they survived with minimal help for Uncle Sam...
I THINK SO!

whiterb| 3.4.09 @ 8:23AM

I am an atheist, but have always respected the Catholic Church. I would never have the audacity to redefine the Church, as the cunning, creepy beanpole and his nasty, devious crew are doing. Many people of all stripes will be turned off and angered by this kind of assault on a good institution, a great Church. But, sadly many others will be fooled. Kansas is one of the last red states, but it voted for her twice. My guess is the women's vote went big her way. Pat Roberts is getting older, and one day she will have his Senate seat. These people are on the march.

Timothy L. Pennell| 3.4.09 @ 8:41AM

Dear Catholics: How can some people, Catholic or otherwise, defend the practice of MURDERING an unborn child? And they don't JUST defend it. They RALLY in large numbers, and they yell, and scream, and they shake their fists. All for the 'RIGHT' to KILL their unborn child. Now, we have a President, whose Soul is so cheap, that he's SOLD IT, many times over, for a few votes. He not only wants these CHILDREN Aborted, in their Mothers' wombs, he's wants them KILLED, even if they manage to SURVIVE the Butchers' knife. "When you were in your Mothers' womb, I knew you.": GOD. He knows who THESE PEOPLE are, too. I pray they get EVERYTHING that's coming to them.

Len Giaccone| 3.4.09 @ 8:53AM

War is Peace, black is white, abortion is pro-life?
1984?

ame| 3.4.09 @ 9:20AM

Pelosi and Sebelius and Kennedy (and others) are Democrats first - left-wing Democrats - ideologues first - and Catholic whenever it suits them -
Democrats without a moral or ethical center - sounds like many Catholic priests and the Church that covered up their ideology -
Democrats and hypocritical Catholics - who needs enemies?
These people should be principled enough to leave the Church when they really do not believe in the stated dogma of the Church - but again - Democrats have no principles except robbery f taxpayers - Obama claims he's a Christian, too, and votes for and advocates the murder of babies born from botched abortions... Obama, the perfect coward. WAKE UP, VOTERS!

moose| 3.4.09 @ 9:28AM

you can not be a catholic if you approve of abortion. a catholic is in FULL communion with the church's teachings and the pope. abortion and artificial birth control are a serious sin! pray for these unfortunate souls, may the light of truth shine on then and they see.

Gill O’Teen| 3.4.09 @ 9:46AM

To elaborate on Timothy L. Pennell’s earlier comment:
At the Saddleback Forum held this past August, barack hussein obumah answered a question as to when a baby was entitled to human rights by saying that the answer was above his pay grade. Excuse me, he's a graduate of Harvard Law School, a former teacher of Constitutional law at the University of Chicago, and at the time of this forum a U.S. senator, the top pay grade in the Legislative Branch. He was running for U.S. President, arguably the top pay grade in the world. What on earth was he talking about? So basically he admitted he is unqualified for the job he now holds. In spite of telling a national audience that he is not knowledgeable enough to be our President, when he was a member of the illinois senate, a decidedly lower pay grade than his current job, he voted to allow newborn babies to die if they were the product of a failed abortion - a decision that they were not entitled to any rights other than ‘to die’ which he admittedly was not qualified to make and contrary to his practice of voting ‘present’. Totally unimportant that when we were originally sold the abortion rights bill of goods, abortion was supposed to be permitted only when infants had no chance of surviving outside the womb, basically in the first 3 months of the pregnancy. So under the original Roe vs. Wade terms, women have no business even getting an abortion in the 9th month except under certain rare circumstances. Once a baby is born, failed abortion or not, it is a citizen of the United States and entitled to all the legal rights of an American. Check The 14th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America, mr. professor harvard lawyer man. And CINOs (Catholic in name only - pronounced ‘see nos’ as in the legendary see no evil monkey, Mizaru) actually voted for him last November and want him to be in charge of our health care system?

Invest in precious metals such as gold, silver, platinum, copper and brass encased lead. Take a two by four to your next Tea Party.

Joe Turner| 3.4.09 @ 9:53AM

I gotta say that reading that the bishop in Kansas City told Sebelius not to receive Communion is the first time I've heard of a bishop with enough guts to tell a "Catholic" politician such a thing.

As Catholics, we gotta admit that a big part of our problem is bishops so weak and afraid that they lack the courage to excommunicate and tell these public sinner politicians not to receive Communion. But reading about the bishop in Kansas City is heartwarming. I wish more bishops could find courage.

If anyone knows of any cases of courage of bishops in cases like this, I'd like to know. Please email me at josephpturner@gmail.com.
I live in Santa Fe, NM

Bill| 3.4.09 @ 9:53AM

This is not just a Catholic issue. One can not be a Christian and approve of abortion period. Life is a sacred gift and God will not be long mocked.
There seems to be many reasons to start marching on Washington and on the turf of the congress men and women who support this tragic decision.

Nick| 3.4.09 @ 10:10AM

whiterb,

Thank you for your respect of our Church. I respect your charity and ability to agree to disagree. I'm praying for you, God Bless.

TennesseeVolunteer| 3.4.09 @ 10:12AM

As a very imperfect Catholic, I can tell you that the majority of american Catholics are beginning to galvanize around this issue! We have always been a very apolitical church. In fact, I don't ever remember a sermon about some type of political action for my 56 years of going to Mass.
Even when JFK ran for office, the priest only asked us to pray for him. But abortion is a different issue. It pains me to know that Sibelius is a Catholic in name, not by practice. She will be judged someday, as all of us will and she will not talk her way out of that meeting.
I have written a letter to our bishop and our Pastor. I am asking them to stand up for the unborn and shout down those who would support it in any way. It may be the law of the land but that does not mean we have to participate or silently let it happen.
I believe this is one topic where the libs are way overreaching and once the Catholics take a stand on this, it will affect millions of former Democratic (not liberal) voters who won't think that killing babies is the way to help others.

ccc| 3.4.09 @ 10:18AM

Like it or not many approve of having the option available and most just don't think it is important enough to care about.

Kelso| 3.4.09 @ 10:23AM

A pope who does not boldy and loudly order the excommmunication of all politicians who support abortion is (1) destroying the power of Catholic pro-lifers who believe with all their hearts abortion is wrong, (2) and is little more than the church's biggest hypocrite. The pope needs to show the world with his actions, and not with his words, that he truly believes abortion is wrong. It is not enough to talk the talk and not walk the walk.

Frank Natoli| 3.4.09 @ 10:48AM

Following the author's link to the article about Sibelius' bishop, one finds that Archbishop Joseph Naumann of Kansas City "asked" Sibelius to refrain from Communion. Archbishop Naumann did not excommunicate Governor Sibelius, as was his power to do so.

By not excommunicating Governor Sibelius, Archbishop Naumann implied that there are worse actions a Catholic could be guilty of, that would merit excommunication, but Governor Sibelius was not guilty of them. But if actively and enthusiastically participating in the annual death of over one million of the most innocent and most defenseless is not an example of the worst demonstration of free will that a Catholic can make, what is, Archbishop Naumann?

An inevitable consequence of Archbishop Naumann's decision not to act, and Nancy Pelosi's bishop, and John Kerry and Ted Kennedy's bishops, and Joe Biden's bishop, is that Catholics, great and small, Governors, Senators and ordinary people, infer that there is wiggle room when the person does "more right than wrong", e.g., fully supports the socialist agenda of the same clergy who refuse to act on the matter of abortion and excommunication.

That consequence is unconscionable. But apparently it passes for good conscience for all the Catholic bishops in the United States.

And that is why most "Catholic" politicians in the Senate and in the House are pro-abortion, all with good conscience, right up to Judgment Day.

Tim S.| 3.4.09 @ 10:59AM

This a perfect example of the "Big Lie" in practice. If you say something loud enough and long enough, eventually people begin to think it is the truth, no matter how outrageous the lie is. This is also a perfect example of double-speak, ex. slavery is freedom, up is down, War is Peace. Please read A. Huxley for more insight into this.
There were times during the campain that I had to stop and check my moral compass, because the lies and distortions had so confused me, I almost thought that Obama was a conservative. So many things were said, and now we know them all to be lies.
As an evangelical Christian, I will stand beside my Catholic brothers and sisters in this fight for moral clarity and human justice.

Xander| 3.4.09 @ 11:03AM

Catholocism really reminds me of those super secret clubs that kids have in their treehouse.

Jobe| 3.4.09 @ 11:11AM

One cannot be a Christian if one does not believe in the divinity of Christ. One cannot be a Catholic if one does not believe in the sanctity of life and oppose abortion. Those who clain Catholicism as their faith, yet shill for abortion are most emphatically NOT Catholic. I speak from 16 years of Catholic education. Sibelius, Kerry, Daschle, et al have sold their birthright for a "mess of potage", so to speak, and forfeit the right to call themselves Catholics. How about " This above all, to thine own self be true and it shall follow as the night the day, thou canst be false to any man". How can a person be trusted who cannot be true to his or her own religious faith?

Xander| 3.4.09 @ 11:22AM

to thine own self be true
______

I've always wondered how people interpret this portion. Because the way I read it, it means do what you feel is right.

Appleby| 3.4.09 @ 11:24AM

I attended one of their all-day workshops last Saturday and heard that a major study has been done that shows young women think abortion is an UNDO button that will set time back to the date before they got pregnant and make their pregnancy as if it had never happened. This is a lot like pounding nails into your mother's coffee table and thinking you can UNDO that action by pulling out the nails. You cannot UNDO that action until you can pull out the holes. Same with abortion. A woman is a mother the minute she conceives, and no action she takes after that will UNDO that fact.

Want to know what you can do instead of have an abortion? Google "Sisters of Life" for an answer. They will ask you "If you had all the support you need, what would your decision be?" and if you answer that you would of course not have an abortion, they will OFFER you that support and they will DELIVER.

THAT is what Catholics do. (P.S. you do not have to be a Catholic; the Sisters aid women of every faith and no faith, including Hindu, Muslim and Mormons.)

Denise| 3.4.09 @ 12:25PM

Because a couple of the comments have thrown out the word excommunication, I would like to point out that because Bishop Naumann has told Governor Sebelius to refrain from Communion, he has in effect stated she is excommunicated. It is termed Latae Sententiae excommunication. By her actions she is excommunicated and there is no need for further formal declaration. You can read all about the various forms and levels of excommunication here. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05678a.htm
Excommunication is not meant to condemn, but rather to instruct one on the seriousness of the error and call one to repent and return to the fold.
There are several bishops who are speaking forcefully about pro-abortion politicians refraining from Communion. Bishop Richard of Florida counseled VP Biden after he received Communion in Florida. Bishop Martino of Scranton PA, and Archbishop Chaput of Denver have also been very vocal on this.

Richard L. Kent, Esq.| 3.4.09 @ 1:07PM

"Whut we hayve hyeah is a failyuh to excommunicate." (With apologies to Cool Hand Luke.)

Richard L. Kent, Esq.| 3.4.09 @ 1:11PM

Catholocism really reminds me of those super secret clubs that kids have in their treehouse.>>

Don't you mean "Catholicism", Xander? If you're going to diss my Church at least have the courtesy of spelling it correctly.

bennie morgan| 3.4.09 @ 1:28PM

I'm 'pro-life' also - I'm for preserving life that is ALREADY BORN and not killing them in phony wars for oil like in Iraq, or the overkill of Palestinians by Israelis.
So it depends on your definition of 'pro-life' - I have not seen one comment here about the 50 million without healthcare in the US, which will surely contribute to many early deaths; I see no opposition to wars of conquest which murders millions and injures even more. I'll belive you are truly pro-life when you show more concern for the already living, rather than the yet unborn.

John Jakubczyk| 3.4.09 @ 1:33PM

Denise is correct and perhaps we should start referring them at having excommunicated themselves by their very actions. But it would be nice for the Archbishop of Washington, D. C. to inform his priests that none of these pro-aboriton supporters should be permitted the sacraments until they publicly confess their sins and repent. After all what does it profit a man if he should gain the whole world and suffer the loss of his soul?

Tj in Chicagoland| 3.4.09 @ 1:39PM

I truly hope that more Catholics--and all Christians, Jews, and Muslims (true Muslims) support the true concept of right to life. This is not just a Catholic issue--recall the attempts by Hillary and the UN to wegdge abortion into UN projects as a 'women's issue'--who fought her? An interesting alliance of African groups (who consider all life sacred), Muslims, Jews, and Catholics. Truly, this is not just a Catholic issue.

Speaking of the Catholics as a political group in the US: sadly, the Catholic leadership during the past 30 years--the most politically active sections--have demonstrated they are liberal first and Catholic second. A liberal intelligensia (called the Wine-Sippers) pervades the U.S. Bishops conference--they are more pragmatic than they are guardians of their faith. Complicating matters futher is a sub-group of Catholic priests and Bishops jocularly called "the Lavender Mafia" (homosexuals) who fear taking any stand against Abortion and finding themselves having next to take a stand against their own lifestyle choices.

Most day-to-day Catholics have no clue about the politics of their own church (in the US).

Perhaps the 'everyman' in churches across the fruited plain will realize that these nutty sub-groups have co-opted their voice as a group--and it is time to take that voice right back!

Frank Natoli| 3.4.09 @ 1:42PM

Denise: I am not an expert on canon law [are you?]. But instructing someone to refrain from Communion is no more than asserting that someone is not in the state of grace. That is obviously not the same as asserting that someone has been absolutely separated from the church until that person repents. In any case, your use of the term "in effect" is highly dubious. The fact is, not one Catholic bishop has taken the action of excommunicating a public official who has chosen to facilitate the deaths of millions. An additional fact is that Catholic policy on abortion has had zero effect on elected "Catholic" officials and the "Catholic" electorate, who consistently vote in the majority for pro-abortion candidates. The former is causal of the latter, not "in effect" but in fact.

JP| 3.4.09 @ 1:49PM

Richard L,
With a billion Catholics worldwide there is nothing secret about the organization. Please purchase a copy of the Cathechism for more info.

Bennie,
What does Iraq have to do with 50 million abortions? And no, being a Catholic isn't dependent on one's point of view. And no, there are not 50 million uninsure. All children and thier mothers are covered by SCHIPPS for the uninsured. All uninsured adults singles are covered by Medicaid. You really need to update your talking points.

JP| 3.4.09 @ 2:05PM

Frank Natoli,
You need to check with the Cathechism and review Latae Sententiae excommunication. This form of seperation is private rather than public. It is between God and the individual -but is just as serious. Performing, assisting or receiving an abortion freely automatically seperates the individual Latae Sententiae from God. Of course the individual can ignore this and act as if everything is Ok. But recall what Paul said about partaking of the Eucharist while in Sin.

I would also recall the recent comments the Pope made towards politicians and thier obligation to protect the Unborn. Whether the Bishops fullfill thier duty is immaterial. The Magestirium begins at the Chair of Peter. Any Catholic who voted for Pro-Choice politicians is on thin ice. Any politician who crafted laws that gave material support to abortions automatically excommunicate themselves. Whether the Bishop goes the whole 9 yards and formally excommunicates them is immaterial. God will ultimately judge.

Frank Natoli| 3.4.09 @ 2:37PM

JP [anonymous] and Denise [anonymous]: I distinctly recall "Catholics" in the 1960s being formally excommunicated for taking public views in favor of statutory racial segregation in the then Jim Crow Deep South. It was done then. It isn't done now. Please don't tell me that canon law relevantly changed between then and now. What changed is the attitude of the clergy. What exactly are you trying to accomplish? Are you trying to substantively affect the behavior of Catholics toward abortion law? If so, nothing done to date has had a substantive effect. I am making one suggestion, with the intent of having a substantive effect, and you refuse my suggestion but offer nothing. Having the best of intentions, but having zero substantive effect if not a negative substantive effect, is the hallmark of the Left, which is responsible for abortion law and its horrific effects.

Tom| 3.4.09 @ 2:45PM

Not of the Catholic Church but I am a Christian.
One cannot profess being a Christian and believe in abortion. It is against the laws of God and He is the Supreme Law Giver.

Rose Krajacic| 3.4.09 @ 3:02PM

I am shocked that all of these pro-death proponents who call themselves "Catholics" have the audacity to show their faces in a Catholic church and receive communion. How can politicians like Sebelius and Pelosi assume that they are in good standing with God? They are part of a very, very evil culture. I hope and pray that they repent, from their mortal sins. Too many of these so-called "Catholics" have no fear of God and how he will one day judge them.

The bishops need to publically ex-communicate these politicians from the Catholic church immediately.

And for the fifty percent of you Catholics who voted for Obama, shame on you. Please don't show your faces in another Catholic church until you confess and repent from your mortal sins. As far as I'm concerned, you have just as much (if not more) blood on your hands as your beloved messiah, Barack Obama.

Anonymous| 3.4.09 @ 3:08PM

I concur. Do not refer to them as "Catholic." They are not. Perhaps "apostate Catholics," but not "Catholic."

Rose| 3.4.09 @ 4:33PM

To Bennie Morgan:
Babies in the womb are ALREADY LIVING! They are living in what should be the safest place in the world, their mother's womb. If you don't believe this, ask a doctor to show you an ultrasound of a baby in the womb or read a book about when life begins. Every single life from conception to natural death is precious and we should defend every single one of them, soldiers, babies, people with healthcare, without healthcare. Choose life!

Rocco| 3.4.09 @ 5:11PM

Current teaching of the Catholic Church with regard to abortion states that any Catholic who obstinately denies that abortion is always gravely immoral, commits the sin of heresy and incurs an automatic sentence of excommunication. The references in Canon Law (1983 Code of Canon Law) are the following:
Canon 1398: “A person who procures a completed abortion incurs a latae sententiae excommunication.”

Canon 751: “Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.”

Canon 1364 §1: “an apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication.”
In addition, Canon 1331 prohibits an excommunicated person from sharing in any ministerial function in the liturgy, including receiving or celebrating the sacraments and sacramentals and exercising any ecclesiastical office, ministry, function, or act of governance within the Church.
Excommunication is considered to be a “medicinal” penalty, designed NOT to punish a person, but to act as medicine for the soul in order to bring him or her to repentance and eventually back into full communion with the Church.

The phrase “latae sententiae” means a judgment or sentence which has already been brought, in other words, a sentence or judgment which does not need a future additional judgment from someone in authority; it refers to a type of excommunication which is automatic and made public only by competent Church authority. Such a sentence of excommunication is incurred “by the very commission of the offense,” (Catechism of the Catholic Church ¶2272) and does not require the future particular judgment of a case by competent authority. The definitions are stated in Canon 1314 (A penalty is for the most part ferendae sententiae, that is, not binding upon the offender until it has been imposed by competent Church authority. It is, however, latae sententiae, so that it is incurred automatically upon the commission of an offence, as stated above, if a law or precept expressly lays this down.). Apostasy, heresy, and schism are all offences which incur a sentence of excommunication automatically, i.e. “latae sententiae.” Heresy is the obstinate denial of any truth of the Catholic faith, on a matter of faith or morals, which has been definitively taught by the Magisterium. The Magisterium has repeatedly and definitively taught that abortion is always gravely immoral.
Any Catholic politician who casts a vote with the intention of legalizing abortion, or of protecting laws allowing abortion, or of widening access to abortion, commits a mortal sin. When such a vote indicates that the Catholic politician believes that abortion is not always gravely immoral, such a politician incurs a sentence of automatic excommunication, under canons 751 and 1364, because of heresy. When such a vote is intended to have the effect of making abortion legal, or more easily obtainable, or more widely available, such a politician incurs a sentence of automatic excommunication, under canon 1398, as someone who is attempting to provide substantial or essential means for women to obtain abortions. Catholic politicians who pass laws which legalize, protect, or widen access to abortion, are providing essential assistance to women who want to obtain abortions.

It is not sufficient for Catholic politicians to claim that they are “personally opposed” to abortion. If any Catholic politician favors legalized abortion, despite a claim of personal opposition, such a politician commits a mortal sin by promoting abortion and by voting in favor of abortion. The same is true for any Catholic who casts any vote with the intention of legalizing abortion, or of protecting laws allowing abortion, or of widening access to abortion. Such a voter commits a mortal sin and incurs a sentence of automatic excommunication for two reasons. First, they are committing the sin of heresy by believing that abortion should be legal and available. Second, they are committing the grievous sin of providing women with substantial or essential assistance in obtaining abortions, by attempting to legalize or broaden access to abortion.

I am not a canon lawyer, but before enlisting in the Marine Corps, I studied to be a priest over 40 years ago, studying some canon law (Code of 1917) and had 6 years of theology. To answer Frank Natoli's question, there were some changes from the Code of 1917 to that of 1983, but the major difference was in the enforcement.

The law is clear, but enforcement, as we can see, has been next to nil. TJ in Chicagoland is on to something in his post. As a student of history, I take a long view of things. I believe we are in one of those phases in Church history where the leadership of the Catholic Church is weak and corrupt. TJ points out a few of the problems. Another is that, like every other institution in our society, the Church has become corrupt and overly politicized, where bishops disregard the authority of the Pope (not even enforced) except when it suits their purposes, credentialism and bureaucracy rule. They treat their dioceses like personal fiefdoms and are hungry for money and power; shepherding their flock comes in at a very distant second. Many are criminals, either directly or indirectly, due to their roles in the sexual abuse scandals. In fact, former OK governor, Frank Keating, Chairman of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops' National Review Board examining sex abuse by Catholic Priests, resigned days after Los Angeles Cardinal Roger Mahony criticized Keating for comparing some church leaders to the Mafia. Keating’s statement said, "My remarks, which some Bishops found offensive, were deadly accurate. I make no apology... To resist Grand Jury subpoenas, to suppress the names of offending clerics, to deny, to obfuscate, to explain away; that is the model of a criminal organization, not my church."
The rot set in not long after Vatican II, when the Church appeared to lose its moorings. I believe we are at the point in history where a massive wave of true reform will come in, driven by some future saints and the faithful, as it happened after the Arian heresy, during the times of St. Dominic, St Bernard of Clairvaux, St Francis of Assisi and the decades after Martin Luther. The Church will return to its orthodox beliefs and the divinely instituted authority of Peter and his successors will be respected and enforced. As it has happened many times in the past, so will it happen again in the future, until the end of time.

To end, I continue to be a devout, practicing Catholic, but use discernment as to where I practice my faith and to where I direct my contributions to the Church.

Whiterb, I echo Nick's sentiments and respect your intellectual honesty. Be safe!!

Rocco| 3.4.09 @ 5:14PM

I apologize for the double post. I had some browser problems....

JP| 3.4.09 @ 8:31PM

Frank,
Enough of the strawmen. The Church stresses that it is every Catholic's obligation to know what the Church teaches concerning moral law. It is stretching it to say that our politicians are ignorant of what the Magesterium teaches constantly and for the public to hear.

Catholics in democracies are free to vote as they see fit; God will ultimately judge accordingly. Catholic voters have a choice to make concerning abortion. Again, we all will be held to account.

Caped Crusader| 3.4.09 @ 8:44PM

The failure of the Church to excommuniate these impostors makes them a sick joke and an abomination to Christ. I break out laughing every time I pass a Church for which I once had the greatest respect. They are the reason the young no longer have faith. A pox on these crooked empty frocks and mitres.

Greytdog| 3.4.09 @ 9:28PM

Dear Americans - while not codified into law, a long-standing VALUE of American socio-political life is the separation of church and state. Or does that not apply to Christians? As for pro-choice folks being an abomination to the Catholic Church - I don't see that at all. Pedophiliac priests and the dioceses which shunt them around from congregation to congregation without care or concern for the parishioners they are endangering - that's an abomination. Folks who claim to be pro-life but support an illegal war, who participate in demonizing "the other" as "those people", and who stand by with a "who cares" attitude towards the living while claiming a special relationship with g-d - that's an abomination.

Alan Brooks| 3.4.09 @ 9:50PM

you want to keep church and state separated, but what about keeping crooks separated from govt? separation of crook and state.
and btw democrats today aren't like in the past when they cared about the living. now it is public relations, lawyers..
how about separation of devious attorney and state?
separation of lying lawyer and state?

Alan Brooks| 3.4.09 @ 9:53PM

separation of liar-lawyer and state.

ND LAW| 3.4.09 @ 10:43PM

30-pieces-of-silver-Kmiec and the rest of them need to be formally excommunicated.

Angel| 3.5.09 @ 1:10AM

Well, gotta give the Little Chicago Thug credit, now he's pushing Catholics for partial birth abortion. Bishops better start speaking up, calling out these vicious baby killers who have the gall to call themselves 'catholics'. What a wretched man, what a wretched group these democrats are. Evil incarnate. There is a reckoning coming, and though I'm frightened, I say bring it on! God help us.

John Brown| 3.5.09 @ 1:32AM

Glad to share Kansas' twenty year old 'problem' w/ the rest of the nation. Now, Kansas can get back to the business of cutting taxes and building power plants for the good folks on the Front Range while she screws things up in Washington. Queen Kathleen got her start lifting Geo Tiller's lumber in Topeka (I believe a good 15-20% of her political contributions have come through the Butcher of Wichita's PAC, ProKan) and wrote Kansas' current abortion law as a state representative. She furthered her career by triangulating moderate Republicans/Democrats against the Conservative Republicans who dominate the Legislature and wrangling the Guvnaship after that RINO guvna Bill Graves raised taxes in 92. And she finished up her career and a spot in Washington by becoming an environmental wacko attacking a $4 billion powerplant investment in Hugoton Ks that would have paid for the power lines to run Kansas wind/coal energy to the 6million good folks on the Front Range. Honestly, this woman has been the most destructive force in Kansas politics since old Cap'n Brown in Bloody Kansas. She has attacked babies, Bible fearing republicans and honest businessmen in that order. And did it all w/ a smile on her face and a sweet, tender motherly grace on teevee commercials/county fairs/state fair. Like a lot of Kansans, I'm glad to see her go. However, I dread what she'll do to the US Treasury.

Rock Chalk

ruth| 3.5.09 @ 1:35AM

She's nuts, isn't she? She looks crazy--I've seen her interviewed before. I've read about Tiller the baby killer for a long time now. How does he survive, and why is he in Kansas?

ruth| 3.5.09 @ 1:37AM

She's got the same look on her face as Nazi Pelosi, 'catholic' mother of 5. Scary women.

Peter| 3.5.09 @ 5:04AM

Sebilius and others like her need to be excommunicated. They're not Catholics even one iota.

Frank Natoli| 3.5.09 @ 11:27AM

Rocco: thanks for your comments and your USMC service. I had a Prefect of Discipline at my Jesuit high school in Manhattan who had been a USMC chaplain. I'll never forget him.

You note that it isn't the law that's changed; it's the enforcement [of the law]. That means there's no assertion of authority, even if it's "only" theological and not temporal authority, until Judgment Day. I say that's a serious mistake, a serious abdication of responsibility, and directly causal of so many "Catholics", public and private, acting with good conscience in ways that are unconscionable, e.g., virtually all "Catholics" in the House, Senate and apparently the President's Cabinet. I don't buy this "should know" or "implicitly automatic". The Liberals in Washington have absolutely no problem stating publicly and without reservation exactly what they understand as right and wrong, and will accept no compromise, no "should", no "implicit". Why can't Conservatives? Why can't the Church?

I'm not a particularly good Catholic, but I don't twist Augustine as somehow rationalizing my own errors.

ruth| 3.5.09 @ 1:28PM

Mr. Natoli, I've read your letters to AmSpec for years, and I just wanted to tell you how much I admire you. Men such as you, Rocco, Nick, Appleby and others on this blog give me hope. Will Catholic Bishops stand up and call these CINOs out? Sometimes it's hard not to despair. I pray for 'Hope and Change' for the preborn.

Frank Natoli| 3.5.09 @ 3:28PM

Ruth: thanks for the compliment. I was taught that despair was the gravest of sins, but I'm afraid I've despaired of the Catholic clergy taking effective action in the matter of abortion. For reasons only they know, they are unwilling to use their ultimate power against the ultimate crime.

ruth| 3.5.09 @ 4:02PM

What are they thinking? They have to know--that eventually--they will be held accountable. For all of my faults, I wouldn't want to be them. I don't really attend Mass anymore--got sick and tired of fighting with my parish priests about abortion. I was too angry. I had to try and find peace on my own; still workin' on that one. God bless you, sir.

Frank Natoli| 3.5.09 @ 5:56PM

Circa early 1990s, when my son was attending CCD in Mountain Lakes, NJ, he came home from one session and informed me that their CCD class was addressed by a guest lecturer who described the process of partial birth abortion. The regular CCD teacher, a female MD, corrected the guest lecturer on numerous points, including the issue of the procedure's "necessity", which the female MD asserted was indeed the case! Female students in the room reportedly harshly attacked the guest lecturer. I wrote the parish pastor, and received no reply. I then wrote Bishop Rodimer of the Paterson Diocese. I eventually got a letter stating that the female MD was a "daily Communicant" who had done "great work for the Church in Latin America", and "had done nothing wrong" in her handling of the guest lecturer. I then wrote then Cardinal Ratzinger in Rome, with copies of all the exchanges. Got a Christmas card from him that year!

Now of course, this is minimally anecdotal, and maximally all a lie. Anecdotal, yes. Lie, no. The Catholic Church intentionally employs CCD teachers who are pro-abortion, and the priests and bishops support them!

ruth| 3.5.09 @ 6:32PM

Disheartening--to say the least. I've tried to teach my children well; they are very pro-life. Thank God. I've always reminded them that life here is fleeting and that there would come a time when they would stand alone before their Lord to explain their lives. Their eyes changed when I told them this, they shifted their gaze to somewhere over my shoulder, and I knew they understood. I believe the Holy Spirit was there. I hope they always remember how much their mother loved (loves) them. I'm just so sorry for all of the children who never got a chance to be loved by their moms. Too sad. God will sort it all out, we'll just have to wait for His time to come.

Frank Natoli| 3.5.09 @ 8:55PM

This is probably not the line of reasoning to use when teaching children, but there are some excellent selfish reasons to be pro-life, and quite honestly, selfish reasons are reasons everybody finds strangely convincing.

And that would be that a society that refuses to unequivocally protect the most innocent and most defenseless is going to have far fewer qualms about protecting those of us less innocent and less defenseless. I, for example, am guilty as Hell, and have the contents of a Browning gun safe that could fully arm a World War II platoon, not squad, platoon. So in the interests of protecting Frank, I should at the very least also want to protect the more deserving.

Additionally, a society that refuses to unequivocally protect the most innocent and most defenseless is going to have far fewer qualms about protecting the elderly. The elderly, after all, have "had their fair shake" and have excruciating expensive Medicare costs. I believe the vast majority of lifetime medical costs are typically incurred in the last eighteen months of life. Sure would save a bundle to chop those eighteen months! You would think the elderly would be the most pro-life of all voting age groups. But they're not.

Lee| 3.5.09 @ 9:16PM

Thank God for all of you, even the few dissenters. You give me hope. I live in a very conservative, pro-life state, Louisiana, but have a liberal, northeastern (no offense), priest who literally took down my pro-life display because I questioned his subscriptions (and displaying in our church library) to Amnesty International, Commonweal, National Catholic Reporter. My town just isn't touched by abortion, liberalism, relativism to the degree that they notice. This election, where the priest was drooling over Obortion, sorry God, in private homes was my wakeup call. Since Thanksgiving, I have set up my own pro-life website, raised money to support the local crisis pregnancy center, prayed at abortion clinics, and even spoke at Church events. And I am just getting started. I too at times want to despair, but remember that the battle is won. Thank you Jesus. I found this quote, not word for word, "Half our church is in heresy, the other hald doesn't know what to look for." Get involved in whatever way God calls you. And this is not about "separation of church and state", this is about Catholics being Catholic. Peace.

ruth| 3.5.09 @ 9:39PM

People like you are the reason I still feel hope. Fighting on behalf of the preborn nearly broke me years ago. I saw many of my friends treated roughly by the LAPD, some of them had dislocated shoulders and broken arms, others were jailed. I had babies and no one to care for them, so I pulled back. I was terrified of going to jail. I have lived with a heavy heart for a long time, and the only peace I find is with my God. God bless both of you.

Nick| 3.5.09 @ 9:45PM

Ruth and Mr. Natoli,

I share your frustration. Sometimes I could pull my hair out. Please continue to pray. The best time to pray is at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, where we are taken up to the Heavenly Jerusalem to worship with the Saints and Angels, and receive Jesus-Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity.

Remember: "Be Not Afraid".

I've been reading about parishes like yours in the Wanderer since the mid-90's. I pray that you get an orthodox priest at a parish near you soon. As for as the Bishops, Christ will deal with them, not us. God's ways are not our ways. If you have read Church history, you know that change happens very slowly. Again frustrating, I know.

In the meantime, try to watch EWTN, it will give you hope. Dr. Scott Hahn teaches that the consequence of sin is the enjoyment we derive from it, thus we become slaves to sin. In these neo-pagan times, the more society rejects God, the more they will slaughter the innocent, the more they will say good is evil and evil is good.

ruth| 3.6.09 @ 12:43AM

Nick, I'm not going to fight with Catholic priests ever again. I should have been hearing their confessions!

Mary Ann| 3.6.09 @ 8:55AM

Joe Turner writes: "I wish more bishops could find courage.

If anyone knows of any cases of courage of bishops in cases like this, I'd like to know."

Just google Bishop Joseph Martino of Scranton, PA. He is one of the most courageous bishops that I know of, calling out VP Biden and Senator Casey on their support for abortion. He is also calling out a local "Catholic" university for having a gay marriage supporter speak there.
God bless our bishop

Well done Mr Brooks **********| 3.7.09 @ 5:21PM

Alan Brooks had a good point for once, why not seperate the crooks from the state, well done.
I am always pleased when reality takes the centre state. I wish the rest would take a page out of Mr Brooks page.

Matt| 3.7.09 @ 8:03PM

I wish you would learn how to spell. The state is full of crooks, it stinks with corruption, moron.