The American Spectator

Rocco| 1.22.09 @ 6:54AM

Look for that to happen here in the near future under our new PC change-you've-been-hoping-for regime. Not that the previous presidency was any better - PC seems to have infected anyone living within the Beltway. REAL freedom of speech will soon become a distant memory.

James| 1.22.09 @ 7:45AM

Maybe we can resurrect Andrew Hamilton and John Peter Zenger and use them for the defense team. Truth is always the best defense.

Jason| 1.22.09 @ 7:46AM

Geert Wilders is a hero. This lawsuit is a scandal.

Jason| 1.22.09 @ 7:47AM

Coming soon to the US of A.
http://www.rightklik.net/

Deborah| 1.22.09 @ 7:57AM

How many canaries do the Dutch need in that coal mine of theirs? Theo Van Gogh wasn't enough? Hirsi Ali wasn't enough? Multiculturalism + political correctness + moral relativism = a nation's suicide and all of this SHOULD be a cautionary tale to the United States, but ho-hum, conservatives are so "reactionary."

jimmy| 1.22.09 @ 8:18AM

Can anyone say 'fairness doctrine'?

Bill| 1.22.09 @ 8:30AM

This is chilling. It is frightening to think that this could happen in a liberal democracy. The West truly is dying with a whimper not a bang.

It looks as though the humanist, democratic project is coming to a sad end. The model appears not to be sustainable in the long run. Did we take a wrong turn somewhere or was this the inevitable outcome? We will debate this question for decades if our Islamic masters permit us to.

Bud Hammons| 1.22.09 @ 8:44AM

This emphatically confirms that Mark Steyn accurately assessed the situation in his book America Alone. We are alone in the world, and it is unfortunately credible to expect our government will fail us in resisting this onslaught.

v/r,

-- Bud

Eric Cartman| 1.22.09 @ 8:59AM

In words of Wilders,
—
“I’ve had enough of Islam in the Netherlands; let not one more Muslim immigrate,” he wrote in national newspaper De Volkskrant. “I’ve had enough of the Qur’an in the Netherlands: forbid that fascist book.”
—

There is a fine line between “grudge”, “hatred”, “propaganda”, “racism” and Freedom of Speech. Wilders is a classic example of spreading hatred based on his “the voices talk to me” hatred toward Islam. On a related note, if had made a film about Torah and Jews, even the dutch government could have forced to make a public apology but since it’s Islam, he got away with it.

Deborah| 1.22.09 @ 9:10AM

Eric,

So, where does hatred begin and end as far as Islamist's slams against Jews, infidels, Americans, Westerners? Why is that not a crime then?

Double-standard justice is fascism. Free speech which is offensive is supposed to be fought by more freedom of speech, not in the courts. If you have a problem with what Wilders has to say, then you should have a problems with what Islamists have to say, otherwise you are taking the cowardly way out which is the way of fascism.

Skippy| 1.22.09 @ 9:19AM

Cartman was it - "I've had enough of Islam" or the "fascist book" that got you in a liberal PC agenda in a twitter?

This is hate speech in your self absorbed world? Oh boy.

James Pawlak| 1.22.09 @ 9:19AM

It is too bad that truth has lost its place as a sure defense in such cases, the truth about Islam is...

ESSENTIAL TEACHINGS OF ISLAM

________________________________________________________________________________
FROM THE KORAN

Muslims consider the Koran as the actual words of Allah and not to be altered by anyone other than Mohammed.

verses which preach cruelty, incite violence and disturb public tranquility (i.e., 2:193; 8:39; 2:216; 9:41; 9:123; 66:9; 9:73; 8:65; 8:66; 47:4—15; 8:12; 69:30—33; 8:15—18; 25:52; 9:39; 9:111; 3: 169—171; 4:100; 48:29; 49:15; 2:154; 3:157—158; 8:59—60; 9:2—3; 9:29; 8:67; 4:84; 29:6; 29:69; 61:9—13; 9:36; 9:5; 9:14; 9:20—22; 4:95—96; 8:72—74; 3:142)
* verses which promote, on grounds of religion, feelings of enmity, hatred and ill-will between different religious communities (i.e., 4:101; 60:4; 58:23; 9:7; 8:13—14; 8:55; 25:55; 5:72; 9:23; 9:28; 3:28; 3:118; 4:144; 5:14; 5:64; 5:18; 5:51)
* verses which insult other religions as well as the religious beliefs of other communities (i.e., 5:17; 4:157; 5:116—118; 98:6; 68:8—13; 38:55—57; 22:19—21; 22:56—57; 5:36; 15:2; 72:14—15;41:33; 4:125; 25:27—29; 26:96—99; 3:85; 8:38; 31:13; 29:41—42; 37:22—25; 37:26—32; 25:17—19; 7:173; 21:66—67; 21:98—100; 16:20—21; 6:22—23; 6:40—41; 6:148; 2;221; 24:3)      

FROM THE HADITH

The Hadith are the collections of what were reported as the actual words of Mohammed and generally binding on Muslims.

The hadith (sacred teaching) reads as follows:
“Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him….”
GENERAL POLITICAL TEACHINGS
1. All lands ever ruled by Muslims must always be so ruled. (This includes much of Spain, Greece, Serbia and what was and is now Israel.)
2. The best form of government is NOT democracy, but rule by a Muslim Caliph AND only under Islamic law (Sharia).
3. Women and non-Muslims are NOT to have the same value as witnesses in courts as do Muslim males AND are subject to other legal disabilities under Sharia.
_______________________________________________________________________________

filthykafir| 1.22.09 @ 9:20AM

"...it is unfortunately credible to expect our government will fail us in resisting this onslaught."

True. But, let us remember, We the People are (or can be) our own governors. Islam has been, since its inception, and remains today a totalitarian genocidal (read: fascist) political ideology wedded to and buttressed by a markedly intolerant, wholly derivative, melange of religious beliefs and practices. It creates nothing; it only destroys. That is its Achilles' heel and a source of our hope to defeat it, just as we militarily destroyed Nazism and hastened the collapse of Soviet communism in the last century.

We secure our liberties by practicing them. We speak out now, vigorously, obnoxiously, with contempt for the totalitarians and the PC ninnies who parrot their, truly obnoxious, speech. We do that here, now; we must continue.

And, if the time comes, we must be prepared to put the second amendment of the U.S. constitution to its intended and practical use.

Eric Cartman| 1.22.09 @ 9:27AM

Wilders is to West as Al-Qaeda is to Islamic world. Both are spreading hatred, both fall under "terrorist" category.

"Free speech which is offensive is supposed to be fought by more freedom of speech" -- so in other words, if a racist pervert come to you and pass sexist remarks and insult and curse your parents everyday, since he is "expressing his freedom", what will you do? reply with "more freedom of speech". Pathetic. The word Law is probably a "myth" for you.

Don't attack me with "if you have a problem..." -- dont use your lack of information as offense to back your remarks.

Eric Cartman| 1.22.09 @ 9:30AM

@Skippy: See the newspaper "De Volkskrant", twitter boy.

Greg| 1.22.09 @ 9:35AM

Hmmm, his video must've hit a sore-note for the Muslims to be so upset.

George| 1.22.09 @ 9:39AM

Freedom of Speech in the USA? That went out the window with enactment of so-called hate crime legislation, the O-bum-a Truth Squad (Demo-Communist prosecutors plus at least one Demo-Communist sheriff in the St. Louis area who said they would prosecute anyone who lied about our Lord and Savior during last year’s run up to his Coronation), and the previously mentioned Fairness Doctrine. Additionally, in the name of Political Correctness our children can be suspended from school for using 'hurtful' language which is anything the teachers or their party bosses say it is. Freedom of the Press is a joke and the Right to Bear Arms is threatened with extinction. Citizenship will be soon awarded to any person, anywhere at anytime - it’s so unfair to limit the Right To Vote to those actually living in Our Country, like ya know. After all, like ya know, it’s not their fault they live in Mexico, China or, like ya know, Iran. Our beloved Constitution has become nothing more than toilet paper for the baboons in Washington to wipe their royal arses. The Demo-Communists and their Republi-con sycophants have damaged our once great country far more than any terrorist organization could dream.

I thought about O-bum-a and Lincoln. My Father’s family which had soldiers on both sides during The Revolution did not recognize Lincoln as President, rather they supported Jefferson Davis. It is quickly coming to the point where the only chance we have to save the freedoms and the ideals on which this country was built is to do as my Civil War era cousins did or apply the 1789 French Solution to their then bread shortage.

Yu Jin| 1.22.09 @ 9:40AM

Eric you are a certifiable idiot with no business living in a free country--get thee gone to Jordan--I'm sure you'd fit right in.

Frank Natoli| 1.22.09 @ 9:42AM

The Netherlands is a true, functioning democracy. What the government and courts of the Netherlands does is with the full consent of the governed. And quite clearly the governed are not displeased with the actions taken against Wilders.

And regarding our Second Amendment, this NRA life member and active hipower rifle competitive marksman needs no reminders of its meaning, but the U.S. is also a true, functioning democracy, and the majority have voted into power an executive, and a Congress and soon a judiciary, courtesy of the executive and his Congress, who are all in the mold of the present government of the Netherlands. If the government is overbearing, it is because most of the people prefer it that way.

Eric Cartman| 1.22.09 @ 9:48AM

@Yu Jin: thank you for letting the public know that all you can come up with is a personal insult, following the wilders way.

Don| 1.22.09 @ 9:51AM

Cartman, if you are a polititian or of any influence at all, you´re just flat-out dangerous. Please do not have children or teach in any capacity. You deserve no other comment for your utter stupidity. If anyone here has actually read the Koran and many of the verses (like some listed above by James), it becomes clear that the Koran itself, and those who practice it, can be charged for hate crimes. (Are any of the anti-Israel protesters being charged with hate speech there?)I challenge anyone to look at what is happening in the Netherlands and Western Eurpope in general and tell me where Wilders is wrong. If the Dutch do not stand up in mass for Wilders than they should simply be written off to their dhimmitude and left to their own self-inflicted misery.

George| 1.22.09 @ 9:58AM

Frank your 9:42AM post is absolutely correct and exactly why those of us who oppose tyranny, which is never justified even if the majority voted for it, may have no choice but to establish a separate nation.

Eric Cartman| 1.22.09 @ 10:00AM

Don, you are suggesting that Dutch people should revolt against their own law? Are you even familiar with words Law or Democracy? I suggest, buy "Law for Dummies" and have a read in your cradle.

How come every next person who replies only have a personal insult to add? No information whatsoever. Your are just adding more reasoning to the fact why the rest of the world think Americans as idiots.

Jeremiah| 1.22.09 @ 10:11AM

EC you symbolize the failure of our school system, you can't even think rationally! Had Wilders addressed nazism with the same words, you would be defending nazism and blaming "hatred" in his denuncing it.
Don't be amazed if someone is insulting you, you deserve to have your throat slit while preaching tolerance to islamofascists.

Jeremiah| 1.22.09 @ 10:15AM

and man you're stinking up the place! Doesn't your copy of the Qur'an say you should wash your feet in clean water, not in the big white bowl, you plankton!

Jeremiah| 1.22.09 @ 10:20AM

and I suspect you're a lawyer. And a very dumb one. Does the partner in your firm (the one who actually works) know what you write in the safety of your cubicle? Take Spencer or Coulter as role models and come back next year.

George| 1.22.09 @ 10:24AM

Eric: I can’t reply for Don. Maybe the smartest President we ever had, Thomas Jefferson, can. You might read his entire document when you’re finished with your For Dummies literature. It’s called the “Declaration of Independence” and it was ratified July 4, 1776:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”

Prophetic words and he wasn’t even a messiah.

daddio| 1.22.09 @ 10:25AM

I wasn't aware the Netherlands ever had "free speech." (I'm not even sure we still have it here).

Dawn| 1.22.09 @ 10:31AM

Eric, read the koran, and then you can make commits if you like. But only AFTER you have read it. It is obvious you have not. I challenge you, if you're "man enough" to read it. Then you will finally know the truth. Oh, and also read the hadiths and sira as well.

Texas Male| 1.22.09 @ 10:32AM

Come on people, don't act suprised!
Radical Islam believes in something greater than themselves. They are willing to sacrifice for a cause and put simply, radical Islam is willing to fight for subjegation of the globe.

What does the west believe in and what are WE standing up for? We the people are lazy and self absorbed. So long as we have 100 channels of premium cable, our cell phones, and the latest gadget, our government and radical Islam can do whatever they want.

Keith| 1.22.09 @ 10:32AM

Cartman, the drivel with which you've sullied this site confirms Yu Jin' comment - you are a certifiable idiot.

In your reply to Don's comment - yes, the Dutch people should revolt against their own law. It's called the 'Doctrine of lower magistrates' - look it up. you'll be amazed to find that the ruled have a responsibility to overthrow the rulers should the rulers impose onerous burdens like restricting free speech; freedom of religion; freedom to protect oneself, family and property; right to fair and open trial by a jury of one's peers; etc. You might recognize some of those things if you've ever had the foresight to read the Constitution of the United States.

And, once again, you are a certifiable idiot. Leave for all of our sakes.

moron| 1.22.09 @ 10:36AM

Buying more 0-0 buckshot today.

Dragos| 1.22.09 @ 10:42AM

I'm an east-european citizen,and i know wery well what it means to be silenced,after 50 years of communism.
Freedom of speach and the right to a personal opinion is not negociable.If you prosecute Wilders,you condemn us all, the free world, to silance.
People,the right to free speach is YOUR NATURAL RIGHT.Defend it!

Netherland,the world is watching you !

Bob Smith| 1.22.09 @ 10:45AM

Islam is an intellectual cancer. The only cure is reason. And now a Western European government is trying to criminalize discussion of the issue. An inevitable Euro/Islamic civil war looms on the horizon.

Strix| 1.22.09 @ 10:47AM

Finally the true face of communism! Lucky new
World?

Bram| 1.22.09 @ 10:48AM

"The Netherlands is a true, functioning democracy" Not.

Disagreements on immigration law and cultural issues have been criminalized by the elite. Now Wilders will be prosecuted as a warning to others on the right not to challenge the Left’s authority.

Frank Natoli| 1.22.09 @ 10:57AM

"Disagreements on immigration law and cultural issues have been criminalized by the elite."

Who are these "elite"? From May 1940 to May 1945, the Dutch were occupied by the Germans and then, I would grant you, many things and people were criminalized by an "elite", in that case German and regrettably several Dutch National Socialists.

That is not the case today. The government of the Netherlands is freely elected. The "elites" are either elected officials or bureaucrats appointed by and paid by those elected officials.

That suits my definition of a "true, functioning democracy".

For the record, I find that functioning despicable, but the problem is with the people who elected and empowered the "elites".

Kyle| 1.22.09 @ 11:06AM

To Eric Cartman:

You may be right that Wilders is intolerant and wrong about Islam or that his film lacks proper, nuanced context. However, that does not change the fact that in a liberal democracy, one should have the right to freedom of speech. His film, even if not scholarly, was hardly an incitement to acts of violence - it was mostly a collection of radical Muslims in their own words. Disagree with it all you want, but in a free country, this kind of thing is allowed. That radical Muslims in Europe can shout "Kill the Pope" or "Itbah Al-Yahud" (slaughter the Jews) without molestation, without recrimination, but can bully their governments to crack down on a parlementarians short film, is nothing less than disgusting and a threat to the liberty you and I surely hold dear.

El Wayne| 1.22.09 @ 11:16AM

This is where the rubber meets the road. Freedom of speech & religion and Islamofacism...not sure what's rubber and what's road. No matter, Ann Coulter had it right....invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. No one likes that can stuff it where the corn don't grow. Islam is a certified Jewish heresy invented and controled by old Beezlebub himself...and Cartman being a certified idiot....triple stamped it..no take backseys.

Eric Cartman| 1.22.09 @ 11:28AM

Wow. Seems like i hit a pot full of Wiggers. No wonder you all are defending Wilders since he is puking the same hatred that you are ready to consume. Putting wilders in the hand of law is like removing you parasites from hatred feed source. You will all fail in inept attempt to save your skinhead rights.

Try elevating your level of intellect, if you try read hard, you can at least be a moron, that's the highest you can go. Now... Praise each other for vomiting the hate and then feast on it.

Dutch| 1.22.09 @ 11:34AM

Without agreeing or disagreeing with Wilders, but as a Dutch citizen and bachelor in Public Administration I might be entitled to comment on this. Know that Holland is a very small country. And that the 'resourcepool' from where politicians, high-profile public servants, judges etc are selected from is evenly small. Know that it is very possible that judges are also politicians, former high-profile public servants are now judges and that laywers can be judges as well in the same court. Know that judges cannot compare new laws to the constitution and that we have no such things as a jury in our court of law. The American sytem of justice and the Dutch system of justice are two very different things. And regarding the 'democracy' in Holland, many things can be said...

Frank Natoli| 1.22.09 @ 11:43AM

"And regarding the 'democracy' in Holland, many things can be said"

Of the many things that can be said, consider this: there really is final accountability in a democracy, and that is with the people. And if the Dutch people choose to elect and re-elect a government that prosecutes if not persecutes someone like Wilders, then the Dutch people are getting exactly what they want. In a democracy, the buck stops with the electorate.

Doctor Right| 1.22.09 @ 11:47AM

If history is a reliable guide (and it usually is), we who live in the free west will ignore these "rumblings" (much as we ignored the rumblings of Communism in Russia and Naziism in Germany) until it is almost too late...Then, we will be pressed into a desperate action which will take years and thousands of lives to rectify...like World War II, and the many peripheral battles of the Cold War (Korea, Vietnam, take your pick...).

But unlike those battles, there's only one way to stop the spread of Islamic Fascsim - total, utter defeat for it's proponents. This means we have to have the stones to do what's necessary to defeat this irrational, dangerous enemy.

The Dutch, who are inundated with Muslims (almost 10% of their population) obviously think that cowardly appeasement is the best answer. This may be the 21st century's "Neville Chamberlain" moment.

Unfortunately, much of Western Europe is in the same boat as the Dutch. They are unwilling to admit that there is a problem, and unwilling to act to save themselves from the inevitable future that will arise from their moral cowardice.

Unfortunately for us, our new President has more in common with the European view of how the spread of Islamo-fascism should be checked than with the views of his predecessor.

Make no mistake about it - we are at war with the Islamic world, and cowardly capitulation will not yield successful results.

This decision by the Dutch court is shameful.

jim divers| 1.22.09 @ 11:51AM

my question is if Islam is truly the religion of pease, why have they not decreed acts of murder and terrorism by such groups as al Queda, Hezbollah and Hamas. Tolerate them, but dont expect anything in return. Fellow Westerners, we are being snowed.

Sounds like our liberals in the U.S. incidentally (We are all victims, but Christians are hayseed homophobic Walmart shopping hicks).

Dutch| 1.22.09 @ 12:03PM

As I said, the resourcepool to choose from, is very small. This pool is very much depending on cross-border relationships. Therefor, it is a self-sustaining system where critisism is not allowed (as is common within self-sustaining systems). Remember Pim Fortuyn or Theo van Gogh.

Basically, we only choose our Parlement, but the list to choose from is very limited and tightly controlled. Within a system as this, - sadly - accountability with the people is a myth.

There has never been an Boston Tea Party in these parts of the world.

@ Frank Natoli: you're very right at how this should work. And yes, history proves that this is what 'the Dutch people' want.

Interloper| 1.22.09 @ 12:11PM

A hearty thank you to the Netherlands for giving Geert Wilder some of what he has coming to him. His desire to deport people for the 'crime' of their religion is no less despicable than the calls to send black Americans back to Africa that appear on the American Prospect. His racism and religious bigotry should be judged and dealt with before that society becomes as poisoned as ours.

Islam is an old, widespread religion and it is not going away. Furthermore, it is no more 'terrorist' than Christianity. Indeed, as much, if not more harm, has been done under the banner of the latter.

Don't get too comfortable here, Goldstein and Meyer, the cretins who frequent this site are just as anti-Semitic as they are racist and anti-Islamic.

Dustoff| 1.22.09 @ 12:17PM

Eric.

Has Wilder called for the death of anyone and if he has. Did any of his followers carry it out?

On the other hand Musliums call for the death of others all the time and in-fact carry it out.

Jeremiah| 1.22.09 @ 12:19PM

Interschlepper! Long time no see! Gentlemen let me introduce you to the most evil troll on this blog, a convicted child molester, drug dealer and former (allegedly) Klan member!
Wrong door Inter', it's adults only, here.

Kyle| 1.22.09 @ 12:21PM

Eric Carman, I do not understand why you think this about defending Wilders as a person as opposed to his right to freedom of speech. One need not agree with what Wilders has to say to defend his right to say it. His film was not exactly scholarly (but neither was it hateful, btw, it only included clips from Radical Muslims speaking themselves), if you disagree, make a counter-film. Just because you dislike someone, does not mean that person has no right to freedom of speech. Do you believe in freedom of speech at all?

Dustoff| 1.22.09 @ 12:22PM

Interloper
His desire to deport people for the 'crime' of their religion.
+++++++++++++++++++++
Mr Wilder has what gov power?
Maybe you missed it, but we see protest in the US all the time to kick Jews out of here and Israel.

Huge difference.

Mieke Harkema| 1.22.09 @ 12:24PM

Have you seen this?

Cincinnatus| 1.22.09 @ 12:31PM

Cartman is clearly a modern college professor - uneducated and unable to think. Only capable of rhetoric in tired cliches and mudslinging, not capable of rational thought.

Dutch| 1.22.09 @ 12:36PM

Mr Wilders has been dealt with by the media, printing press and there has been a (fierce) public debate, and rightly so... I think there is no need for a judge to step in and just for that, no judge should. No judge is to control the viewpoints of a politician that is merely expressing views from his electorate (he has not taken any physical actions). Within a democracy, it should - within the boundaries of this democracy, even be possible to advocate the discontinuation of the same democracy. Bringing politicians to court, makes this impossible.

Jeremiah| 1.22.09 @ 12:37PM

No, I think he's a lawyer. From Harvard.

ignominius| 1.22.09 @ 12:47PM

@ Interloper.

Your knowledge of History is pure fiction. Whilst there were wars of religion after the renaissance the number of deaths directly attributable to people claiming to kill in the name of the Christian Yahweh is neglible. The inquisition again didn't not kill that many people nor have extremist groups claiming allegiance to Christianity, such as the Klu Klux Klan killed as many as Islam has.

Far from being the religion of peace people like you like to try to promote, it is in fact the very opposite. Since it's inception, Islam has been at war with the world, and with the the West in particular. Islam is responsible for the murder of an estimated 80 million Hindu Indians during it's various invasions of that sub-continent. In the Sudan, Muslims have been slaughtering the Christians in the south and now more lately Christians, African animists and brother Muslims in what is clearly genocide.

As for being no more terrorist than Christianity,
The bible does not command Christians or Jews to kill either apostates or non-believers. The Koran specifically commands Muslims to kill Jews, Christians and unbelievers in that order. These are verifiable facts. So is what is supported in the Hadith, the Sunnah and the Sirra. Since 2001 over 12,000 terrorist attacks have been committed , not by men screaming 'Jesus is Lord!' but by Muslims filled with hatered screaming "Allah Akhbar!". Where ever Islam goes, suffering and death follow. Ignorance is key to keeping the masses of followers in line and ready to swallow the filth from the Koran.

Why do we not hear Muslims condemn the attacks by Hamas on Israeli school children during a so-called cease-fire. We are met by deafening wall of silence. When Israel invaded the Gaza strip to put a stop to the missile attacks, apparently 1000 Gazan's lost their lives. Yet how where is the outrage at the death of 3000 non-Israeli's at the hands of Muslims. Where is the condemnation of the slaughter inflicted on the Spanish trains, or the London bombings. None. No outrage. No we see Muslims the world over dancing the streets, celebrating.

Islam is not a religion, sure it uses religious terms, it dresses itself up in religiosity, but it is really a front for a rascist, bigotted 7th Century Arabic imperialism that is far worse than was ever inflicted by the nations of Europe.

Dutch| 1.22.09 @ 12:57PM

Only two weeks ago, a key-member of the Dutch Parliament, participated in a pro-Hamas protestmarch calling out for the Intifada. There hardly was any respons from the media and no pro-Wilders support group ever filed any charges. This issue concerning Wilders no longer has anything to do his political views, but everything about limiting freedom of speech concerning 'inconvenient' viewpoints. Because the subject at hand is concerning Muslim beliefs, the international press has kicked in. Otherwise, no-one would have known.

Thomas| 1.22.09 @ 1:06PM

The Dutch have a problem. When you legislate against speech, any speech, then you are on the road to totalitarianism and all of its repressions. What the Dutch court has said, by this decision, is that the people of the Netherlands are incapable of comprehending what is truth and what is not and that it is a crime if anything that you say hurts someone's feelings. Thank God that such laws do not exist in this country, yet; or many people on the internet would be awaiting trial. This is not a question of public harm, or even private harm, but of the stifling of free discourse without any true provocation.

Dutch| 1.22.09 @ 1:20PM

Thomas has a point. For change to occur, someone must be willing to be 'wrong' about something. Bringing points of view concerning 'right' and 'wrong' to court does not help. Most judges are not known for their progressive view.

Sadly, the Islamic world is not known for their sientifical, medical, philosofical and/or political break-troughs - at least not over the last 400 years.

The West has. Just maybe it has had something to do with the seperation of state and religion. Because also Christian religion is not commonly known for their philosofical break-throughs - at least not over the last 400 years.

ignominius| 1.22.09 @ 1:28PM

...err...what about the reformation (correct me if I'm wrong),but that is a philosophical breakthrough. I think you will find that Christian scientists and philosphers have been often at the forefront of technological, scientific and philosophical advances. Islam, on the other hand only destroys. It destroyed the great libraries in North Africa and the Sudan (Yes, the Sudan was a centre of culture, learning and trade long before the Muslims got there and destroyed it and reduced it to the wreck of a nation it is). Scientific advances are based on the nonesense that Mohammed try to pass off as science...such as that the sun sets in a muddy puddle and so on.

Dutch| 1.22.09 @ 1:37PM

About 400 years ago, scientists were prosecuted by the Christian church - upon the pain of death. With the seperation of state and religion, scientists could both be Christian and scientist. Today, there are still scientist 'under attack' by the Christian Church. They just don't have to be affraid to be routed out.

In a way, I fear that the Western world is taking all this freedom for granted and, 'spoilt' as we are, no longer cries out.

Dr Gregory Young| 1.22.09 @ 1:53PM

Members of the appellate court should shamed publically in the media.... They should be made public spectacles so as to feel the public outcry against such insane rulings. Unless these public officials are duly punished, they get to hide behind their robes and office....

Oh wait isn't that what we should be doing with Barney Frank, Dodd, Pelosi and Reid and the rest of the treasonness lawbreakers we call politicians who have just wrecked our economy? As well as our own stupid Supremes who voted that your home is not your own anymore? Being a citizen of the US no longer carries with it any rights, except for PC victims. We are at war with Islamofascists. They seek our death and destruction. We need to stop apologizing and seek their end.

Frank Natoli| 1.22.09 @ 1:57PM

It is true that war was once waged in the name of one Christian point of view or another. However, there was never any biblical justification for those actions. Like it or not, the Anointed One never once preached violence, was the consummate unilateral pacifist, and only once engaged in violence Himself. That regrettably makes me a lousy Catholic.

The Old Testament has many exhortations to violence. Must annihilate the pagan Canaanites, lest the Canaanite women lead Jewish men astray.

But none of that, Christian or Jew, is living memory. Yes, there are divisions that are religious in origin, Northern Ireland being just one example, but nobody there killed for a religious reason. It was just a "convenient" way to divide people, like race, or ethnicity, or sex, or language.

But some disciples of Islam today, not four hundred years ago, not three thousand years ago, today, kill in the name of Islam. History is one of my favorite subjects, my book shelves are filled with that subject, but we all live in the present.

Note to Dutch: on my mother's side, I am Detrez+Klingeleer, Flemish, so we may have more in common than you suspect!

Texas Male| 1.22.09 @ 1:58PM

There is much outrage on this topic but what one must keep in mind....outrage is not a deterent to the oppressors. It just reaffirms to them the need to tighten their grip.

The ONLY thing that works against oppression in the short term is action...sometimes violent action. I doubt anyone in the west has the fortitude or attention span to do anything about the coming global tyranny.

It will happen and we will stay silent and obedient and maybe even like Nazi Germany...supportive.

The west has become a soft and pliant tool of those seeking to subjegate. Tough times are indeed ahead.

Edmund Onward James| 1.22.09 @ 2:16PM

I linked this piece to my satirical yet serious weblog: Dutch Prosecution leads the way for Eurabia & Islamic Law...

In Canada, we have had some difficulties with the Human Rights Commissions after complaints from several Islamic organizations.

http://onwardjames.blogspot.com/2009/01/dutch-prosecution-lead-way-for-eurabia.html

Michigan-Matt| 1.22.09 @ 2:19PM

There is something familiar in Mr Geert Wilders' appearance, attitude and attacks.

Oh, I know, he looks and sounds like a poster boi for the New 4th Reich... only this time they're already inside the lowlands so the Germans don't have to invade. The guy dyes his hair to look more Aryan -gheez.

Creepy that so many here will align themsleves with religious intolerance, public bigotry, anti-immigrant rhetoric and a clear cut bully of the 1st order.

What's next my Wilders' lovers? Sieg Heil? Brownshirts making a fashion coming back? Burn a few copies of the Qur'an in a publc square? Maybe you'll lead a few fellow bigots in a little night time torching of a mosque or two? Maybe smash the windows of a local arab store? Got those yellow cresent symbols ready for sewing on some muslim's coat for easy identification?

Geert Wilders is no hero; shame on those who suggest his rightwing extremist views are appropriate in a civil, freedom loving society.

Dutch| 1.22.09 @ 2:33PM

Not too long ago, it was immoral for women to vote. I don't remember any Court changing this on it's own account (remember Women Suffragettes ?).

Bringing Wilders to Court is a sign of the establishment tightening its fists. With the state's monopoly on violence (and the justice system very closely linked to politics without 'the people's' effective means to change this) and the politician's backdoor to this monopoly through the Courts of law controlling this monopoly creates a dangerous precedent at least. It is thought-control. In this case for the sake of religious freedom, but then again -in relation to women voting rights-, how do we value (Islamic ?religious ?) freedom in about 20 years? And then what? Judges are not commonly known for their progressive views...

Note to Frank: suspected as much - thought you to be dutch as well. Same interests here; so much examples, so little learned...

CraigT| 1.22.09 @ 2:47PM

Muslim outrage

At first, the Muslims were outraged by cartoons but I didn't speak up because I wasn't an artist.

And then the Muslims were outraged by history books and news but I didn't speak up because I don't read much.

And then the Muslims were outraged by women who weren't completely veiled but I didn't speak up because I'm not a woman.

And then the Muslims were outraged by the practice of other religions but I didn't speak up because I'm not very religious.

And then the Muslims were outraged by the existence of Infidels so when they came for me … there was no one left to speak up.

Pay close attention to the last line because that is the ultimate goal of Islam, all the rest are just steps towards that goal.

Michele San Pietro| 1.22.09 @ 3:01PM

Quite unfortunately, free speech has been dead for a long time in Europe. One thing is being a communist or an islamic fundamentalist, quite another thing is being none of the above: in that case, you are sistematically discriminated against, insulted, beaten, and killed. It is high time to do something concrete in order to put an end to such a disgrace.

George| 1.22.09 @ 3:11PM

ignominius: Sorry to rain on your parade, but the Old Testament has many accounts of God commanding His Chosen to kill the unbelievers. Furthermore, the great libraries of Egypt were destroyed by early Christian fanatics who sought to destroy every book but The Bible. If not for early Islam, many of the great works of Greek mathematics and science would have been lost forever. The Islamic Caliphs actually hired Jewish Scholars to translate surviving documents from their original language. These writings came into Europe through Spain which was under Islamic control until Ferdinand and Isabella finally broke their grip just before that Queen sponsored Columbus' Caribbean vacation.

David Govett| 1.22.09 @ 3:15PM

Netherlands. The Low Countries, indeed.

Frank Natoli| 1.22.09 @ 3:18PM

Ciao, Michele!

"you are sistematically discriminated against, insulted, beaten, and killed"

OK. That's the public reaction. But Europeans, like Americans, have a secret ballot. Romans, shock of shocks, elected Alemanno and said "no" to decades of left wing rule. From the Baltic to Mare Nostrum, Europeans can choose what kind of life they wish to live. Why do so many choose to be ruled by Leftists?

Michele San Pietro| 1.22.09 @ 3:23PM

Oh, Alemanno is definitely a great politician, as well as Berlusconi.

ruth| 1.22.09 @ 3:40PM

Since when do words hurt? Oh, the truth hurts. Mr. Wilders throws verbal bombs not real ones. Also, was that a Jew who slit the film-maker Theo van Gogh's throat nearly decapitating him?

ruth| 1.22.09 @ 3:42PM

Mr. Natoli, Jeremiah and Texas Male, I'm with you.

GOD| 1.22.09 @ 3:51PM

Murder, rape, plunder and destruction are all perfectly fine with Allah - if done in the name of Islam

Koran (Qur'an) 8:67-68

Those who reject Islam are "the vilest of creatures" and thus deserve no mercy. Qur'an 98:6

Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers, smite at their necks;" Qur'an 47:4

Koran (Qur'an) 2:216

Kill unbelievers wherever they find them (Qur'an 2:191); murder them and treat them harshly (Qur'an 9:123); fight them (Qur'an 8:65) until no other religion than Islam is left (Qur'an 2:193); humiliate them and impose on them a penalty tax if they are Christians or Jews (Qur'an 9:29); slay them if they are pagans (unbelievers) (Qur'an 9:5); crucify, or cut off their hands and feet, and expel them from the land in disgrace. Then there are these: Muslims are told that unbelievers "shall have a great punishment in world hereafter" (Qur'an 5:34); not to befriend their own fathers or brothers if they are not believers (Qur'an 3:28, 9:23); to kill their own family in the battles of Badr and Uhud, and to "strive against the unbelievers with great endeavor" (Qur'an 25:52); and be stern with them because they belong to hell (Qur'an 47:4). This Allah says all those who do not believe will go to hell (Qur'an 5:11). And the sadism gets worse: "As for the unbelievers, for them garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowls and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods" (Qur'an 22:9)

Surah 33.26: "And He has caused to descend from the Jews that assisted them. And he struck terror into their hearts. Some you slaughtered and some you took prisoner."

Koran (Qur'an) 8:55-57

'Lo, the worst of beasts in Allah's sight are the ungrateful who will not believe.'

'Those of them with whom you made a treaty and then at every opportunity they break their treaty and they keep not duty to Allah, If you come on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, so that they may
remember.'

Koran (Qur'an) 8:67-68

'It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. You desire the lure of this world and Allah desires for you the hereafter and Allah is Mighty, Wise.. Now enjoy what you have won as lawful and good and keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is forgiving, merciful.'

Koran (Qur'an) 8:65

'O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand. '.

GOD| 1.22.09 @ 3:52PM

SATAN LOVES ISLAM!

Murder, rape, plunder and destruction are all perfectly fine with Allah - if done in the name of Islam

Koran (Qur'an) 8:67-68

Those who reject Islam are "the vilest of creatures" and thus deserve no mercy. Qur'an 98:6

Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers, smite at their necks;" Qur'an 47:4

Koran (Qur'an) 2:216

Kill unbelievers wherever they find them (Qur'an 2:191); murder them and treat them harshly (Qur'an 9:123); fight them (Qur'an 8:65) until no other religion than Islam is left (Qur'an 2:193); humiliate them and impose on them a penalty tax if they are Christians or Jews (Qur'an 9:29); slay them if they are pagans (unbelievers) (Qur'an 9:5); crucify, or cut off their hands and feet, and expel them from the land in disgrace. Then there are these: Muslims are told that unbelievers "shall have a great punishment in world hereafter" (Qur'an 5:34); not to befriend their own fathers or brothers if they are not believers (Qur'an 3:28, 9:23); to kill their own family in the battles of Badr and Uhud, and to "strive against the unbelievers with great endeavor" (Qur'an 25:52); and be stern with them because they belong to hell (Qur'an 47:4). This Allah says all those who do not believe will go to hell (Qur'an 5:11). And the sadism gets worse: "As for the unbelievers, for them garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowls and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods" (Qur'an 22:9)

Surah 33.26: "And He has caused to descend from the Jews that assisted them. And he struck terror into their hearts. Some you slaughtered and some you took prisoner."

Koran (Qur'an) 8:55-57

'Lo, the worst of beasts in Allah's sight are the ungrateful who will not believe.'

'Those of them with whom you made a treaty and then at every opportunity they break their treaty and they keep not duty to Allah, If you come on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, so that they may
remember.'

Koran (Qur'an) 8:67-68

'It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. You desire the lure of this world and Allah desires for you the hereafter and Allah is Mighty, Wise.. Now enjoy what you have won as lawful and good and keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is forgiving, merciful.'

Koran (Qur'an) 8:65

'O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand. '.

ruth| 1.22.09 @ 4:05PM

Koran means submission. That's clear enough for me.

ab| 1.22.09 @ 4:09PM

sign the petition for mister Wilders now !

http://www.petitiononline.com/wilders/petition.html

Peter| 1.22.09 @ 4:54PM

Contrary to the weak informed opinion of Brooke M. Goldstein and Aaron Meyer, the decision of the Dutch courts to hear the case against Geert Wilders must not be marked as the Death of Free Speech, but heralded as a victory for private citizens against any state induced doctrine. Libertarians in particular should rejoice.

Neither the Dutch parliament, nor the Dutch government has shown any intention to prosecute Geert Wilders. It is however private citizens, who exercised their right to appeal at the courts against a decision of the public prosecutors to dispose their complaint against Wilders and stall prosecution.

The decision of the court to go against the will of politicaI leaders and government executive power is a laudable demonstration of the independence of the courts, a cornerstone in the Dutch Trias Politica. The only thing that judges can do is to upheld Dutch laws, formulated by parliament where mr. Wilders is leading a political party with a considerable number of seats. The Netherlands does not have a common law system, and judges have far less power than in Anglo-Saxon countries.

It is very important to grasp that point, as Wilders does have that legislative power and thus allways has the option to legislate him or his successors out of this situation by launching a different law, or scrap the articles and convince his fellow parliamentarians.

The comparison in the article with a recent exercise of state power toward cartoonist Gregorius Nekschot is misguided. That lapse of judgement by the public prosecutors against an individual is not the case here, actually precisely the opposite has happened.

Mr. Wilders is neither a saint of free speech, as he wants to prohibit the free distribution of several books, which in his opinion contain hate speech, nor is he above the law as a parliamentarian.
That position must be applauded, as special prerogatives, immunity and impeachment procedures for politicians are avoided in the Netherlands and citizens can take parliamentarians to trial as equals.

Wilders calls to forbid a well known old religious book in the Netherlands, an utterly undutch opinion that goes against a tradition of centuries with Freedom of Expression, must be rejected.

A claim that the Freedom of Speech is jeopardised is a gross overstatement, as the case just has to begin it's course.

To mark the final point, the famous lawyer Gerard Spong, who leads the plaintiffs, once was the lawyer of Pim Fortuyn, the slain Dutch politician. Everyone who observes that fact, would pause a few seconds and rethink the case pressed.

Frank Natoli| 1.22.09 @ 5:12PM

"Mr. Wilders is neither a saint of free speech, as he wants to prohibit the free distribution of several books, which in his opinion contain hate speech..."

No one is writing Rome with the suggestion to canonize Mr. Wilders, in this life or the next. And in any case, your gratuitous and unsubstantiated allegation against Mr. Wilders is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand, to wit, is the Dutch legal system calling Mr. Wilders to account for a film that the legal system calls "hateful"? If the answer is "yes", as it appears to be, then the Dutch people have propagated a government and legal system that seriously endangers their freedom, and that is a "bad" thing.

yemek tarifleri| 1.22.09 @ 5:13PM

thanks very good

Ron.| 1.22.09 @ 6:07PM

Excellent article.

Thom| 1.22.09 @ 6:58PM

Frank Natoli said, "The Netherlands is a true, functioning democracy." Frank, three hungry wolves and 2 fat sheep is a functioning democracy too. An hour later with 3 less hungry wolves and 1 sheep is still a functioning democracy. I think the buck stops with those that pay it and the sheep here are paying it not the wolves. No true democracy has ever lasted very long in historical terms. We were not founded as a democracy in the sense you mean.

ruth| 1.22.09 @ 7:15PM

The weak always pay for it. Might makes right.

Frank Natoli| 1.22.09 @ 7:17PM

"three hungry wolves and two fat sheep"

Metaphors are a rich part of our language, but are not meant to compose the substance of one's argument.

I understand the nuanced difference between a strict democracy and a representative republic, but in both cases, the people, the demos, choose. The government exists by the consent of the governed. That is certainly the case in America. That is also the case in the Netherlands. The fact that we have a relatively closely divided electorate, and therefore always a very large [though minority] group of people extremely unhappy with the election results, doesn't change the fact that the [majority] governed have given their consent.

Opal| 1.22.09 @ 7:56PM

"The Islamic Caliphs actually hired Jewish Scholars to translate surviving documents from their original language. These writings came into Europe through Spain which was under Islamic control until Ferdinand and Isabella finally broke their grip just before that Queen sponsored Columbus' Caribbean vacation. "

Obviously written by someone who has zero knowledge of history. The reintroduction of classic literature occured several hundred years earlier during the age of St. Thomas Acquinas, not the time of Queen Isabella. Not exactly sure what your point was after the error in facts.

However, when do Muslims get to be accused of hate crimes. They use Churches at times in the past for sanctuary and then used the Bible for toilet paper and defiled the sanctuaries. But that wasn't hateful. They execute priests during Mass but that isn't hateful. They crucify young African children but that isn't hateful. They decapitate East Asian girls on the way to school but that isn't hateful. They stone retarded girls to death for seduction but that isn't hateful.

Yet in America our public schools have exercises in case Christian terrorists should go on a rampage....

Hhm. Makes you wonder exactly what is hateful about a few words....

I have words thrown at me all the time just because I have Van full of kids. Hateful, ignorant comments by average Americans but I don't go around crying like a baby about it. I just ignore the stupidity and move on. Maybe the next time someone calls me an "Eco terrorist", I should call the U.N. and see if it counts as a hate crime. I am having the kids for religious reasons. Or maybe the sheer fact that I am having so many kids would be considered a hate crime against Muslims-maybe devout Christians and Catholics are really having so many kids so that we will still have larger population numbers in the US than the rapidly increasing Muslim population.....And maybe the homeschooling movement will be considering a hateful movement, because most of us are teaching our kids the TRUTH about Islam and it's not so peaceful history. One never knows how far these things could end up going.

Dutch| 1.22.09 @ 7:57PM

"It is however private citizens, who exercised their right to appeal at the courts against a decision of the public prosecutors to dispose their complaint against Wilders and stall prosecution."

Actually, there are very few individual citizens that can achieve this. In the Netherlands, we have the (in?)famous 'poldermodel'. This means that citizens are represented in lots and lots of interest-groups. However, most of these groups are led by professional managers and recieve funding from public sources - not private sources. As the professional management is depending on public funding (yes - the same government that "hasn't shown any intention to prosecute Geert Wilders") and is not depending on it's 'followers', it's not to surprising whose interests are not very much challenged. As it's considered politically wise to encapsulate Muslim-organizations in this model, Muslim-organizations recieve large amounts of public funding. Even if their goals and actions are not entirely correct. The consequence of losing (political) grip is considered less favourable than disbanding organizations that are just not quite right.

It is mostly these kind of (publicly funded) interest groups that were 'hurt' by Wilders' comments on Islam and took action. There is very little 'private citizens' about that.

As I said before, the Dutch system is incomparable with the American system. Almost 70% of the Dutch Gross National Product is in one way or another a public Product. Only large companies can rival that; private citizens cannot and, basically, are not allowed and are therefor just plainly ignored.

Just follow the money and see who's pulling strings.

JamesJ| 1.22.09 @ 8:06PM

Cartman..you're an asshole...sue me

Nick| 1.22.09 @ 8:12PM

Opal,

Great post!

My sister and brother-in-law have 7 kids and get the same garbage too.
"Are these ALL yours!!!!"
"Haven't you heard of the pill?"

When people reject God, anything that reminds them of Him, makes them angry.

Like when a vampire sees a crucifix.
Liberals are modern day vampires.

Richard Shropshire| 1.22.09 @ 8:23PM

Thom is Right!!
When Ben Franklin was as to the type of government the people was given, he replied: "A Republic, if you can keep it."
Sorry, Ben, we didn't. It died with Abe Lincoln.

We don't Islam to play taps.

Alan Brooks| 1.22.09 @ 8:28PM

or maybe it died with James Buchanan.

nevr mind, you cant expect knuckle draggers to think.

Jeremiah| 1.22.09 @ 8:51PM

There seems to be a moderator on this blog, after all. Couln't he just edit the liberal trash and send it through the memory hole? Insulting a liberal is a very elaborate process, better leave a few lines here and there as templates. Just my humble opinion. Keep up the great work!

Thom| 1.22.09 @ 8:55PM

Frank, the wolves consented too. It wasn't the "nuanced difference" that gave us the Nazis out of the bosom of a Democracy. I'm not trying to make too fine point about this but the 20 odd percent that voted against the Nazis, the Socialist and the Communist in 1932 died right alone with the rest under our bombs and the Russian tanks. If the enumerated limitations and rights in our founding documents and their prescribed method of amending the Constitution aren’t enforced then it all comes down to the wolves and the sheep. It is still a Democracy in the strictest sense of the word when the last sheep is eaten.

Peter| 1.22.09 @ 9:08PM

Dutch falsely claims that muslim organisations receive funding in the Netherlands.
On the contrary, the Dutch government observes the separation of State and Church. The only thing mosques get is a tax-exempt status, like all churches and congregations.

There are a number of immigrant organisations that are subsidised. It is however not possible to proof Dutch's claim that a subsidy has been used to pay the lawyer in this suit. And some governmental organisation secretely pulls strings.

If that was the case, it would be readily exposed by the largest national newspaper (de Telegraaf) or opinion magazine (Elsevier). Both are right-wing conservative publications and harbour the largest numbers of journalists, who would love such a scoop.

When a baker, who delivers bread to the local canteen of the municipal office, requests criminal prosecution of a municipal council member, whom he considers to have broken a law, anyone would consider that an act of a private person. No one would refer to the baker as a puppet from the municipal government, as he receives part of his money for delivering bread to the canteen.

It is Dutch's "follow the money and see who's pulling strings" that marks him as a genuine conspiracy theorist.

Alan Brooks| 1.22.09 @ 9:15PM

"humble opinion" from Jeremiah (he could conceivably shorten it to "IMHO"),

anyway, false modesty is such swill.

Thom| 1.22.09 @ 9:19PM

I now understand why the Netherlands has not a single notable accomplishment in its history.

Alan Brooks| 1.22.09 @ 9:19PM

and BTW, IMHO, moderators have othor things to do than edit blogs continually to please demented weaselly lib-losel cads who ought to be posting at lib mutual-admiration -blogs preaching to their choirs.

Alan Brooks| 1.22.09 @ 9:23PM

...other not 'othor'.

Othor is the norse god of fake humility

Kip Hamilton| 1.22.09 @ 9:25PM

It is NOT a far right position to be wary of a religious philosophy which is socially and politically intolerant and conservative. It is Liberal, not conservative values that are at stake. Why is it that the left ignores the intolerance of Islam and continues to be outraged by any intolerance they find in Christianity? Both should be condemned. I think that the far left only wants to sow discord, so that they might pick up the pieces when society falls apart. An alliance with Islamic radicals seems to be a good way to do that, but just wait and see what happens to the leftists when they are at the mercy of the sharia courts. And for the radical gay groups coming to the defence of the Islamists, go wear your pink triangle badges in any Islamic country, or in a Taliban controlled part of the world and see what happens to you. You won't have to wait long.

sheilasara05| 1.22.09 @ 9:29PM

as we say good by to democracy in Europe
can it be Islamafobia is already entrenched in the minds of previously free speaking people, that we must not incite them..look up weaselzipper.net/blog
what you see is coming to a city near you...sooner than later
hooray for Geert Wilder and all others who still know the truth

ruth| 1.22.09 @ 9:44PM

I think it's funny when liberals defend Radical Islam and trash Christianity (Rosie O'Donnell) . If Islam prevails the freakish liberals will be the first to have their heads chopped off. Will they blame it on Booooosh?

rmono| 1.22.09 @ 9:45PM

to interloper; christianity is just as terrorist islam... when was the last time we heard about a christian suicide bomber, honor killings, sanctioning marriage to ten year olds, denying women an education, not allowing them to drive, forcing them to burkhas, issuing fatwas and murdering those who dare write or publish against islam, beheading people on the internet. religion of peace my ass. religion of hate and misogyny.

Die rechte Ecke| 1.22.09 @ 10:02PM

Good job Holland, Netherlands...whatever.
What can be said about a country that's all in for Euthanasia?
Obviously, they're comitting cultural suicide.
I hope the cultural left here in America only slits its (their) own throat(s) and continues to abort its (their) children.
It will become obvious when they've driven themselves to extinction and that only remaining American't lefties find they're a homosexual couple incapable of reproduction.
Long live Freedom!

Peter| 1.22.09 @ 10:04PM

Thom seems an expert on Dutch history.

Alas, it is impossible to undo the decision of the VOC, the worlds first joint-stock company, to charter Henry Hudson in 1609 with the Halve Maen to explore the northern coast of America for trade and settlement.

And oh yeah, before you start to bragg, several of my family members have done multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. It is not easy to see your sister and brother-in-law worry about the well being of their sons.

ruth| 1.22.09 @ 10:05PM

Can't say I disagree.

Todd| 1.22.09 @ 10:22PM

Surprised no one has commented on the irony of having the advertisement for Muslim Matrimonials right along side this article, rather strange. Not sure what their target audience they are trying to reach on this website is.

While many Muslims I have known are peaceful people in of themselves, the ideology of their religion and what is contained in the Koran certainly is not. I think we have more than enough evidence throughout history and current events that make this very obvious to anyone who is willing to see and get their head out of the ground. Sadly many people like Eric are blind to the facts and don't want to see the obvious because it is terrifying and will take the cowardly way like is happening in The Netherlands.

Osamas Pajamas| 1.22.09 @ 10:37PM

I've heard it said that former Calif Demo Senator Alan Cranston caused the American publication of an exactly-translated version of Hitler's "Mein Kampf" to compete with the "sanitized" version favored by Hitler for English-speaking countries. What the world needs now is a precisely-accurate English-lanuguage translation of the Koran and any derivative or associated documents, in cheap paperback, to better illuminate the oeuvre of hatred for its intended victims. I'm too old and too broke to undertake this, but somewhere out there is a brave soul with the money to get this done, no matter what the cheap, screaming killers think about this project.

PNUT| 1.22.09 @ 10:39PM

Islam hates the truth ! It can't continue to exist if examined and critiqued with reason. It's immorality and absurdities would insure it's demise, that's why they fight so hard against any criticism. The Umma might see that the Emperor wears no clothes....

Alan Brooks| 1.22.09 @ 11:21PM

EC's was the thought-provoking comment.

what country does he or she-- it-- live in.

"Eric Carmen" my arse

Alan Brooks| 1.22.09 @ 11:26PM

hmm wait, maybe eric is his name--Danish perhaps, that would make sense. the nation that invaded Deutschland in 1940.
in '06 Danes had trouble with...
oh fuggedaboutit. no point in 'communicating'

ruth| 1.22.09 @ 11:39PM

So that's the reason for Cartman's rabid defense of radical Islam; he's a weenie? I don't know, I smell typical liberal arrogance. He reeks, actually.

PnUT| 1.22.09 @ 11:48PM

ruth,

Leave us Liberals out of this......it's not a bad word.

Frank| 1.23.09 @ 1:20AM

Peter,

I lived in the Netherlands for 11 years and know full well that each "approved" religion is publicly funded, to include Islam. These funds pay for houses or worship, schools and salaries for personnel. The concept is hard to conceive from an American perspective but it is part of the "pillars" of Dutch society that kept the peace in the Netherlands until quite recently. The Dutch are quite ill-equipped to deal with Islam because they are essentially the world's greatest compromisers and cannot intellectually come to grips with anyone who will not compromise.

Whereas this may not be the end of Freedom of Speech in the Netherlands, it is indicative of the Dutch reaction to discord - make it stop. The Dutch, like many Europeans, do not truly understand the price of their freedoms because that price was paid in American, British and Canadian (alphabetical) blood.

ruth| 1.23.09 @ 2:49AM

PnUT, you can bet your bottom dollar that Cartman is a liberal; one of you. Do you prefer leftist, Marxist, or just the old favorite, Commie? After 7 1/2 years of BusHitler, you can take your precious sensitivity and shove it.

ruth| 1.23.09 @ 2:51AM

Yeah, that's the way to make something you dislike stop--reward it! I think I can see the future here, and it is not good.

Steele| 1.23.09 @ 5:57AM

The Dutch government should be ashamed and we should all speak out in support of Geert Wilders.

But is this sort of thing possible in the U.S.? People keep talking about the Fairness Doctrine, but could it ever get passed?

Stas| 1.23.09 @ 9:28AM

As someone from the Netherlands, I'd like to ask all the Americans reading this a few questions:

*If an Imam was calling out, to kick all infidels out of the USA, would he not be arrested, tortured, and sue'd?
*If a socialist would speak out, and usher a crowd to stand up, and have all banks forcefully closed, would he not be picked up by the fbi/cia and be tortured?
*If a politician in congress would be litarally shouting and cursing to all members in congress AND to the president of the USA, calling names like 'You're all fools!', 'You're all weaklings', 'You're shitfaced-crazy', would he not be banned from congress for a limited time?

Geert Wilders has done all these things, time after time, and he never felt a single consequence for his actions. He has been cursing, he has been instignating hate, everything, and suddently he's the victim because he's sued!? Wich will, basicly, cost him some money and gain him a lot of media attention and thus votes.

Even more, his political programme is directly against the International Declaration of Human Rights. But, I guess, Americans never really cared about those either....

George| 1.23.09 @ 11:03AM

Opal: I never wrote that “The reintroduction of classic literature occured (sic) several hundred years earlier ... during the ... time of Queen Isabella”. I wrote that Islam controlled Spain until it was defeated by Ferdinand and Isabella. Islam came into Spain in the early 700s when a Moorish invasion overwhelmed the Goths and seized control of all but 6 kingdoms which remained Christian. The two most important of these kingdoms historically are probably Aragon and Castile. The Spanish national hero called El Cid defeated the Moors at Valencia in 1094. This was just one battle in a war that lasted through 1276 by which time Christians had reduced Moorish control to just the area around Granada. Aragon and Castile were united in 1479 when Ferdinand’s father the King of Aragon died. Ferdinand had married Isabella, the Queen of Castile ten years earlier. Spanish troops led by Ferdinand and Isabella defeated the Moors at Granada in 1492 making Spain a wholly Christian nation since the Spanish Inquisition starting in 1480 with the sanction of Roman Catholic Ferdinand and Isabella and Spanish persecution had already driven the Jews out of that country. It was after all these events that Isabella sponsored Columbus.

“The (Islamic) Moors had a far more advanced culture than most of feudal Europe. Under the Moors, Spain became more civilized than most other European countries.” (Walter C. Langsam. The World Book Encyclopedia © 1967, Vol. S, article on Spain, page 584)

You can look it up. Maybe my knowledge of history is zero, after all I’m an old man with a faulty memory, but it would seem to be greater than yours.

Frank Natoli| 1.23.09 @ 1:00PM

"Alas, it is impossible to undo the decision of the VOC, the worlds first joint-stock company, to charter Henry Hudson in 1609 with the Halve Maen to explore the northern coast of America for trade and settlement."

Most people regard pollution as a 20th [or 21st] century phenomenon. But when Hudson dropped anchor off the north shore of what is now Staten Island, inside New York Bay, he wrote in his log that he and his crew were stunned to be able to see the river bottom, as clearly as if there was no water at all between them and the bottom. No river in Europe at that time could compare.

And some time later, a popular way for bargemen to kill barnacles on their hulls was to anchor for a while in the Gowanus Canal in Brooklyn [formerly Breukleun].

Frank Natoli| 1.23.09 @ 1:54PM

http://www.city-journal.org/2009/eon0122bb.html

Bad news! For those who think names like Goldstein and Meyer must mean that the entire Wilders case is a Jewish plot, see the above article at City Journal, written by Bruce Bawer.

Thom| 1.23.09 @ 6:10PM

Peter,
I live 33 miles from the first permanent English speaking settlement at Jamestown two years before Henry Hudson sailed. This nation was founded by English speaking peoples, not Dutch. Where you find “dutch” influence in any numbers here you find the same pacifist mindset that you find in the Netherlands. To echo what Frank said, that world view exists because others have paid the price in blood to give you that freedom.

As to your friend’s or relative’s service in places like Afghanistan and Iraq, I have several friends who have spent time in both places and some are still there. Not to belabor the point because I value the service and sacrifice of any individual in the service of freedom but all the blood and treasure spent by Americans in those places today is a 5 gallon bucket to a teaspoon for all the rest of our Allies in this endeavor. No one has to brag, the facts speak for themselves.

I know more about Dutch history than you might think but my point stands and this is not a history lesson. If the Netherlands disappeared tomorrow the only thing missed by the world would be their porn industry. The Dutch have been the first to lay down their arms; the first to disarm and first to switch alliances when it suits their needs. I believe the Dutch have the distinction of being one of the countries to fight for and against Napoleon. None of this is to imply I think the Dutch people are worthless by any stretch. They are however self absorbed with themselves and spineless as a culture where as world affairs are concerned. While this Nation has its own PC problem with freedom of speech, the current situation in the Netherlands is a national disgrace if the Dutch people actually respected its concepts. This is not meant to be personnel but if a Nation allows one of its own to be prosecuted/sued by its concept of a justice system for exercising their freedoms then the bulk of the population is indifferent to what is at stake. That what was expressed is simply the words of those that faint offense when it lines their pockets is just the icing on the cake.

ruth| 1.23.09 @ 10:23PM

Stas, what a butt-crack you are. If there were so much torture in the U.S., foam spewing tools such as Intergroper, Cartman, Mich. Matt and other cretins would have been hanged, drawn and quartered years ago. Talk about a Kool Ade drinker. Idiot.

ericcolumba| 1.24.09 @ 7:24AM

I stumbled across this web page as I was looking for news of Mr Wilders prosecution.
Brilliant article and engrossing debate.

Personally, I feel that if we are to deal with the danger to western civilisation posed by Islam then we must be capable of abandoning our own superstitions too.
Clearly, not all political dogmas are equally dangerous and neither are all religions. Islam is incompatible with democracy.
How can we educate our fellow humans to abandon the beliefs of their sky God when clinging on to our own?

I live in the UK and have become so dissolusioned with the Left which I thought stood for equality. Then they went and made friends with Islamofascists so they can hate the west, Israel and the west together.

Seriously people, free your minds go read Hitchens, Harris or Dawkins. It will put an end to the Cognitive Dissonance you've been experiencing.

"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear."
George Orwell
ab
thanks for the link to the petition. I signed. http://www.petitiononline.com/wilders/petition.html

Jeremiah| 1.24.09 @ 10:53AM

Does "Stas" stand for "Stasi"? I can't believe a Dutch speaks for muslims, unless his actual name is Mustasfa.

Nick| 1.24.09 @ 1:20PM

Eric Columba,

You will only find true freedom and equality through Crist. Try reading St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, G. K. Chesterton.

ruth| 1.24.09 @ 1:52PM

What is the symbol of your atheistic religion, Columba? A question mark? Dude, you're screwed if you're looking for answers from Hitchens. Absolutely screwed.

Stas| 1.24.09 @ 8:00PM

@Jeremiah:
Actually, Stas stands for Anastasios, a greek, christian-orthodox name. It means 'he who has risen up', originally meant as an ode to Jezus, although I was given the name because my father is greek-orthodox and simply friggin likes greek names.

@George and Thom
As a history student, I can tell you a little bit about this. Yes George, the Moors invaded Spain, I believe in the late 600's. They even went as far as Poitiers in middle france, where Charles Martel (Father or Grandfather of CharlesMagne) stopped them. In Muslim Spain, there was a lot of religious freedom. Whereas Christian lords often hunted jews and pagans in their midst, in Moorish spain both Jews and Christians were allowed to live where they lived and how they lived. Also, many scientific progress has been made thanks to middle-east scientist (both during and before muslim domination).

As far as I know, the Dutch fought against Napoléon. At first, they supported the revolution, for they had been a republic before, and seized the moment to try and institute a more democratic system in the netherlands, backed by the french. However, it turned out that the French didn't want to help other peoples but conquer them instead, and the Dutch have fought against Napolean.

Our soldiers in Afghanistan (we're not in Iraq, thank god), are not there for our own freedom. The Dutch civilians would be a hell lot safer if we hadn't been there, just like most of the world. Quite honestly, I don't think the middle-east would have had a problem with Europe if we didn't follow every decision our big brother made.

@ruth
Well then, sorry for using rethorics. Only the Imam would be torchured, and only if his family lived on land rich with oil. The rest would have other faiths. Oh wait no! I forgot! The United States do not torture! The television guy said that, damn how could I forget?

@all.
Atheïsm is not the answer, nor is any single religion. I myself am neither Muslim, Christian nor Atheïst, but to each it's own. From Atheists I admire the will to take own responsibility for their deeds, from Muslims and Christians (wich are, in the end, barely any different, ask Grandfather Abraham) I admire some beautifull verses and the believe in a better world through sharing. Offcourse, both Atheism and Monotheism have their extremist, their lunatics and their plain annoying ones. I myselve am ecclectic, gathering many motifs from the Buddhist and Pagan faiths, which both probably have/had their own wacko's, even though I haven't met them yet.
None of the religions is right, none is wrong. There is no such thing as an absolute truth, and if there is, it's impossible to find out. thus, the only solution is to respect other religions and slowly evolve to a more happy world, instead of descending into madness like we're doing now.

Stas| 1.24.09 @ 8:08PM

Quote:
"Good job Holland, Netherlands...whatever.
What can be said about a country that's all in for Euthanasia?
Obviously, they're comitting cultural suicide.
I hope the cultural left here in America only slits its (their) own throat(s) and continues to abort its (their) children.
It will become obvious when they've driven themselves to extinction and that only remaining American't lefties find they're a homosexual couple incapable of reproduction.
Long live Freedom!"

So wait... Homosexuality = bad, because it doesn't produce new life... Euthanasia = bad, because someone who's tired of living, looses their life....
Abortion = bad, because a tiny clump of cells that have spawned as a result of rape, won't become a life...

But, capital punisment is good, because that isn't taking someones life? And war is even better, because that isn't taking the life of the young, the poor and the involountary drafted on your own side and both military and civilians on the enemy's side?

I'm confused!

ruth| 1.24.09 @ 9:56PM

Stas, save your vomit, you're ignorant. I don't know where you live but if you're safe it's probably because of the courage of American soldiers. It doesn't matter anyway, cowardly weenies like yourself will soon cease to exist because Islam (religion of peace) will annihilate you. It's already happening. Poor fool, I know you're confused, terminally so.

Jeremiah| 1.24.09 @ 10:10PM

Just read "The Rage and The Pride" and "The Force of Reason" by Oriana Fallaci and you'll pretty much know all that needs to be known about Islam. Not for the weak of heart, though.

ruth| 1.24.09 @ 10:56PM

Ignorance is NOT bliss, in this matter. I'd rather see the speeding car hurtling toward me than pretend it's not there.

Stas| 1.25.09 @ 7:57AM

@ruth.

Dear Ruth, you provide no arguments against my points. So, stop vomitting and start reasoning.

ruth| 1.25.09 @ 3:38PM

Doesn't matter, Stas, you have to live there, I don't. I Thank God every day for being an American citizen. Go ahead, fiddle while your nation burns.

Aberham| 1.25.09 @ 5:36PM

Mohammed was pedipedic. It is said in the Koran. He married a 9 year-old child, and consuated the union when she attained her 13th year. In Holland, just qoting this from the Koran would be a crime. In America the union would be a crime against children. But the ragheads would nonetheless rage foaming-at-the-mouth hysterically, and otherise acting as thouugh they had just broken loose from an asylum.

ruth| 1.25.09 @ 8:53PM

What's even worse: The Dutch allow it. Morons.

Jeremiah| 1.25.09 @ 11:02PM

Stashiite, there are no arguments to be provided against utter failure to reason. Why should we clean up the trash can full of syllogisms and sophisms you left rotting on our blog. And be polite with ladies if you can't be nice. Even a few muslims can understand these things. Why can't you?

ruth| 1.26.09 @ 2:38AM

Thank God there are still some real men left in this world. More than ever, we need them.

BK Lawson| 1.26.09 @ 1:47PM

Hello? Who's prosecuting the Radical Islamics for THEIR hate speeches then? Isn't this a 2-way street? Shall we extradite the RI's all over there so you can have at them, too? It's only fair.

This is the most ridiculous piece-of-shit ruling that I ever seen in my life! Totally insane. Speak out against a genuine global threat, and you go to jail for it? Fucking hello, you stupid head-up-the-ass bastards?! I hope a nice radical Islamic person finds you and blows your empty head off.

How's that for hate?! Come and get me, bitches...

Johan Sterk| 1.26.09 @ 5:15PM

I am happy to report that democracy is alive and kicking in the Netherlands. Wilders' Freedom Party' had a 30% rise in voter surveys last week. In practice there is still a world of difference between laws and their execution here. Remember, the sale of mariuana is officially forbidden! In practice Dutchmen express themselves more freely than Americans. For example, unlike in the US, there are no speech codes at Campus and the Danish cartoons were widely published in newspapers.

Stas| 1.27.09 @ 6:49AM

@Johan Sterk:
Hell, according to some organisation, (I forgot the name), seated in California, that watches the whole world to check on liberty of press, even Venezuela has more liberty of press than the USA!

And by the way, yes. Radical Imams who call for hate are to be prosecuted to. As a matter of fact, Mr. Wilders tried to file a complaint because a certain Imam said he wanted to whip-torture Wilders. The only problem? The Imam never said that, it's just that Wilders' tranlators 'accidentally' translated it wrong. (It's all on video available on the internet, so those of you who speak Arabic (I don't) can check it out.

@ My good friends Jeremiah and Ruth.
Jeremiah: You sure are creative! Keep it up, I hope you will be able to find something new next post. Suggestions could be Staslin, or perhaps Strange.

I have not yet seen the Netherlands burning, actually. But, thanks to your advise, I will keep my eyes open.

In my humble opinion, I voice my opinions quite polite. If you are referring to the "Stop vomitting" post, you may want to read Ruth post before that, and you'll understand what I was referring to.

ruth| 1.27.09 @ 6:22PM

Talk about no personal freedoms; you want to jail someone who only speaks the truth. Your country is dying--that's probably just what you want.

Stas| 1.27.09 @ 6:37PM

Okay Ruth, that's exactly wat I want.

Satisfied?

ruth| 1.28.09 @ 5:14PM

Stas, how many wives do you have? Do you beat them if they show their ankles in public?

Stas| 2.1.09 @ 4:49PM

None actually, I'm too much of a stone-out hippy for that.

Agreed?

Sophia| 2.22.09 @ 2:44PM

I just don't get it.... what's going on

Chanel| 2.22.09 @ 2:46PM

Look, i don't know what this is about....religious tolerance pls.... freedom of speech...

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Hmm communism another delicate issue that causes dispute even between people that share the same opinion.
Loved the article and do agree with George's interpretation of it.
I come from a communist country so I guess my opinion is a bit blurred, but to be honest I believe that every social system has problems whereby the people suffer