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The Spectacle Blog
In the wake of the rescue of Captain Richard Phillips, the debate continues over what to do about the pirate threat. Occasional Spectator contributor Fred Iklé takes to the Washington Post today to argue for ships to simply arm themselves and kill any pirates that try to board the ship, in the name of self defense, while other reports indicate that the U.S. military is considering striking the pirates’ land bases. Personally, I’m open to the idea that limited military action can be justified, but I question whether the threat of piracy has risen to the level whereby such strikes are currently necessary. So, I’d be more inclined at this moment to support the first option. At least for now.
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More Blog Posts by Philip Klein
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Pingback| 4.13.09 @ 1:20PM
Fighting the Pirates : But As For Me links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Ken Berwitz| 4.13.09 @ 1:43PM
While I applaud President Obama - long and loud - for allowing our military to act, the job is not finished yet. With or without international consensus we must attack the ports which operate as their safe havens. We must destroy the ships they use and break their network of "spokesman" and "intermediaries" wide open.
Until the Maersk Alabama was taken we had the luxury of looking the other way and calling it someone else's problem. Now we do not.
Not only were we victimized by the thugs/terrorists (until we turned the tables on them, that is), but they are now overtly threatening us with future attacks - and warning us in so many words that they will kill US crew members.
The time to do something about it is now - before they make good on their threats.
Let's go.
Freya| 4.13.09 @ 2:16PM
I hate to say it, because I know how unpopular it would be, but the only real long term solution is to do what we weren't ready to do in 1993: send in the troops, restore order, and start building a working government that can police itself. It'll be a decade-long effort, and cost us American coin and American lives, but I don't see any alternative.
Siegfried X| 4.13.09 @ 2:22PM
I'll take both, and specifically, I want the rule of law, not anarchy. And that's what the option of ONLY arming the ships, without government action is, anarchy. It's like going back to the wild wild west when there was no law except a cowboy's gun.
Self-defense is important, but it is only the first step. Laws and officers to enforce them make the difference between a real society like the USA, and anarchy like Somalia.
Steve | 4.13.09 @ 2:24PM
Keep up the Great Commentary!!
COMMON CENTS
http://www.commoncts.blogspot.com
Angel| 4.13.09 @ 2:34PM
At the very least, arm the American crews. I heard the Americans were trying to fight off the AK-47 wielding pirates with ice-picks. That's beyond ridiculous!
Siegfried X| 4.13.09 @ 2:43PM
There is a middle ground too, another option to try. That is to sink every Somali vessel which even looks suspicious, until piracy stops. Fighting this way would allow air craft to be used, and would actually prevent some attacks instead of just waiting for them to happen.
If necessary legally, we could declare war on Somalia. Which makes perfect sense because this piracy is an act of war since the clans which are their de facto government support it.
MT| 4.13.09 @ 3:17PM
Please--just no more "nation building!"
Siegfried X| 4.13.09 @ 4:52PM
Obama is a military minimalist, someone who always uses the absolute minimum force he can get away with.
Like Obama's rules of engagement were so tight that the military wasn't allowed to shoot the pirates even after Captain Phillips had been beaten several times, tied up for days, and constantly threatened with death, including weapons pointed at him. None of that met President Obama's strict rules. It wasn't until a pirate stuck an assault rifle in Phillip's spine and was just ready to pull the trigger, it wasn't until then that President Obama graciously allowed our military to fight back.
Daphne| 4.13.09 @ 5:14PM
Conservatives kept Obama's feet to the fire. He knew he'd be toast if he let that Captain die. Keep lookin' over your shoulder, Mr. President--we're not going away! Ha ha.
Thomas F| 4.13.09 @ 5:21PM
In the dead of night sink every ship, boat, skiff, dinghy, canoe, raft and barge in all of the ports of Somalia, every stinking one of them, the ones that have been hijacked as well. then put a 500lb bomb in the chimney of every house of new construction taller than 0ne story.
The US needs to board every ship at sea, and if they are refused sink them, sink any ship that is found with weapons on board.
The Somalians can come to us when they have a working government.... no sooner, and not the local pirate with his head up his a$$.
Blockade the port and sink any one that tries to float a ship....
that is all these scumbags understand.....
MT| 4.13.09 @ 5:23PM
HA ha ha! Obummer's got us breathing down his neck forcing him to be a real man! Good job Conservatives--thank God the Captain is alive.
Ken Berwitz| 4.13.09 @ 5:38PM
jharp
That's an interesting fantasy.
First off, no US ships or crews were taken by the Somalian thugs/terrorists while President Bush was in office so, obviously, this situation is very different.
And media have reported that President Obama authorized force against Captain Phillips' captors during the time he was being held. He would not have had to do so if the authorization was already in place.
Clearly, Mr. Obama did not believe that whatever standing order he may have issued in February (if he issued one at all), covered this situation. That's a pretty good reason for you not to believe it as well.
Look, despite the fact that I have a lot of issues with Mr. Obama (as anyone who reads my blog, www.hopelesslypartisan.com, knows) I gave him full credit for his authorization to take action. Fair is fair.
But let's be reasonable: if we're going to compare Bush to Obama let's do it when there really is a comparison. And let's limit our congratulations to what Mr. Obama actually did.
Angel| 4.13.09 @ 5:41PM
No, Harpy--Thomas is just a man women can count on. I happen to like his tough talk. We have enough females in this country--we don't need more estrogen from quasi-males like you. Shemale Harp.
WendyG| 4.13.09 @ 5:48PM
Fact is: Obama is planning deep military budget cuts, is talking about getting rid of nukes, and all manner of de-fanging the US.
He got lucky this time. GWB's Navy pulled Obama's chestnuts out of the fire.
And notice all the lefties who hated Bush's military love Obama's.
Thomas F| 4.13.09 @ 5:50PM
jharp,
What exactly do you think is going to solve the problem, kind words and therapy?
These khat chewing douches do not understand anything else.
Destroy the trappings of their success.
(the houses they have built) http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/539942
Then destroy their ability to do it again.
Nothing else is going to work, and your jugeared idiot blowing smoke up the worlds a$$ on how tough he is will not matter one whit, we are going to see another US ship captured within months and this time around it will not have a storybook ending.....
Angel| 4.13.09 @ 5:57PM
WendyG--as usual, you're right on, girl!! I figured the SEALS saved Obama's sorry behind. That's why I want to keep Conservative pressure on Obummer. I figure that way, more Americans will live. BRAVO NAVY SEALS!!
ruth| 4.13.09 @ 6:01PM
My niece is a merchant mariner who has worked for Maersk--what would have happened to a woman on that ship?
Ward| 4.13.09 @ 6:09PM
Has Secretary Gates lost his mind?
"As long as you've got this incredible number of poor people and the risks are relatively small, there's really no way in my view to control it unless you get something on land that begins to change the equation for these kids." Secretary Gates quote.
Is this guy a Defense Secretary or a Sociology Professor at U.C. Berkeley?
I say, increase the risk on the equation side by summarily executing pirates and arm ships with mercenaries so the pirates won't get close to the ships. Referring to them as "teenagers" is also ridiculous. The word will get out fast on the Somali shores that it doesn't pay to be a pirate.....even if they are teenagers...they will get the message.
Siegried X| 4.13.09 @ 6:12PM
Obama's authorization of force was limited and had so many strings attached that it nearly cost Captain Phillips his life. Here's how the NY Times put it:
"Through the window of the front hatch they saw the third pirate, pointing his AK-47 at the back of Captain Phillips, who was seen to be tied up.
That was it: the provocation that fulfilled the president’s order to act only if the captain’s life was in imminent danger, and the opportunity of having clear shots at each captor. The order was given. "
MT| 4.13.09 @ 6:30PM
Is it possible that Obama was worried about his political agenda, and that's why he gave the SEALS the order to shoot? It wouldn't surprise me.
Alla G.| 4.13.09 @ 7:41PM
I am very happy that Capt Phillips is safe. However, I would not applaud long and hard Pres. Obama for this. He has not only given a very restrictive orders to the Navy that almost cost Phillips his life, he severely constrained them and
prevented the timely response and rescue. By that I mean the following: apparently Maersk Alabama
reached Mombasa with twenty of the original crew on boad and a number of Navy Seals. Obviously,
those Navy Seals were transferred from Navy distroyer to provide further protection. I would ask why the same Navy Seals have not been used to stage a rescue immediately(or when Phillips jumped into the water the first time) and then transferred to Alabama and sent it on its way to Mombasa. There was not immediate danger to the freighter at that point with the Navy destroyer present there. I figure that Navy has not receive their orders immediately, or they waited for proof of imminent danger to Capt. Phillips life.
Since when mighty American Navy ship spends four and a half days babysitting a small powerless boat with four pirates on board? I bet Reagan's Navy or even Bush Navy for that matter would forcefully respond on the first day.
Which brings me to give all of you a following advise: last week I read on Internet an article published in American Spectator titled "Three Presidents and Highjacking at Sea". It describes in detail the responses by Pres. Lyndon Johnson,
Gerald Ford and Ronald Reagan to the similar cituation. Please read and think about it.
Thank you all for your participation.
P.S. I am a Jewish immigrant from Kiev, Soviet Union since 1978 , an American Citizen and proud
Conservative Republican. I have lived in Socialist country for thirty two first years of my life, and I can assure all of you that Pres. Obama is, in fact, a
Socialist and there is where this country is heading rather fast, unless we put a stop to it in 2010.
Alla G., LA, CA
phillip bernal| 4.13.09 @ 7:52PM
I feel sorry for the author Mr. Klein. I read his biography. He is another "college boy" intellectual who never served in the military and can not discern between good and evil. These pirates are as evil as the terrorists we are fighting. Painful death and destruction are the only deterrents that will make them cease and desist. There is a real world outside the well-insulated borders of the USA Mr. Klein. Maybe you need to get out a little more and see it.
Ken Berwitz| 4.13.09 @ 8:26PM
Alla G.
I respect your opinion, but disagree. There was no need to act immediately, because if anything happened to Captain Phillips these thugs/terrorists would have no choice but to either surrender or die.
Remember, they were in a cramped boat with no amenities of any kind, bouncing in the ocean, with a brutally hot sun beating down on them during the day. Why not wait them out in the hope that this would cause them to give up? That would give us the desired result and guarantee Captain Phillips' safety.
I think this was handled very well and I'm delighted with the result. Now, however, it is time to wipe out the threat by addressing its source - the ports where these thugs/terrorists operate from.
We'll see if Mr. Obama has the resolve to get it done. I hope so, because if we wait for the UUN (Useless United Nations), it will never happen.
danny| 4.13.09 @ 8:47PM
anybody notice the irony here? the first people obama is forced, yes i mean forced to take out, were black teenagers.
MT| 4.13.09 @ 9:16PM
Obama was legally required to authorize force. He had no choice. Great job, SEALS!! I'm just thankful that the Captain is home, safe with his family.
Martin Owens| 4.13.09 @ 9:41PM
Instead of railing against Somali pirates- who like all pirates, are hardy, agile, and hard to exterminate- we should turn their rapaciousness to our account.
Have the CIA kidnap that preposterous Spanish pecksniff Judge Garzón, who presumes to judgment over Alberto Gonaales, John Yoo, et al.
Place him on a choice target ship off Somalia, and then see if the EUnuchs will rescue him...
Gonzales, Federal Appeals Court Judge and former Assistant Attorney General Jay Bybee, University of California law professor and former Deputy Assistant Attorney General John Yoo, former Defense Department general counsel and current Chevron lawyer William J. Haynes II, Vice President Cheney’s former chief of staff David Addington and former Under-Secretary of Defense Douglas J. Feith
stmichrick| 4.13.09 @ 9:47PM
The president is to be commended for doing the right thing. Lucky for us there still exists the military capability for success. This was a softball for him because these Somali thugs have no constituency, even in the Congressional Black Caucus.
A decisive follow-up is yet to be seen as it needs to be devastating to the Somali (pirate) economy. We'll see if he has the stomach for it.
If Dear Leader is still making these decisions in 6 years I wonder if we will have the same capability to project military power that he enjoyed on Sunday. Remember Desert One.
Lynne| 4.13.09 @ 9:52PM
Obama was legally required to authorize force--he had no choice. As it was, he waited too long--the Captain was almost killed. These SEALS have been trained under a pro military administration--it showed.
Curtis Rasmussen| 4.13.09 @ 11:04PM
Hey Thomas,
How about sending in the special forces under the cover of darkness to rescue hostages, then bomb the strongholds into the stone age.
There are a mind boggling 200 hostages being held. The scumbag pirates once again have leverage.
Thomas F| 4.13.09 @ 11:21PM
jharp,
Thanks for 'not' paying attention, we do not have to send in the troops, sink 'every' (down to the rowboats) ocean going vessel in port, blockade the ports.
Board every vessel at sea within 300 miles and if you find Somalians w/ weapons sink them if they refuse boarding, sink them if they fight back kill them and push their bodies into the ocean and let the sharks have them... make them form their own government and do not deal with them in anyway until they do.
Treat them like the scumbags they are not some noble buccaneer you think they are......
Pay attention stupid they are a blight on humanity treat them that way and kill them all.....
If we do not within six months a year at most there will be another US ship hijacked and there will be deaths, This is all since Obambi and the Bush administration would and will not deal with these animals they way they should be dealt with.
Kill them all....
Thomas F| 4.13.09 @ 11:24PM
So what a trillion dollars in 6 years, Obama has done one point 7 in one month and is looking for another 2.5 to 3 trillion in the next budget, what do you think that is going do to inflation.......
Thomas F| 4.13.09 @ 11:26PM
Screw the other hostages if we are responsible for their deaths we should pay reparations, otherwise we should not spend one ounce of American blood.
Angel| 4.14.09 @ 12:26AM
No, stupid, Thomas is NOT an angry man: he just understands how the world REALLY works. Because he's a realist, he's strong, unlike an airy fairy, panty-waist liberal like you. That's why I feel unsafe with Obama in office--you liberal shemales just don't know how to take care of business. I'm a woman, and I get it--and it creeps me out that some men don't.
ruth| 4.14.09 @ 12:31AM
Harpy, bet you wouldn't call Thomas stupid to his face. Well, maybe you would--once. Ha ha, I'd pay to see that!
ruth| 4.14.09 @ 1:32AM
A lot, you weenie. Big talker, not much else. I know your type.
ruth| 4.14.09 @ 1:36AM
I have to say, I'd bet as much as I'd pay for Metallica or Toby Keith tickets--good ones.
ruth| 4.14.09 @ 1:43AM
You probably like Dave Matthews or maybe that dirtbag, Eminem--or better yet, a chick band. I'm trying to think of someone really nasty, but I can't tonight. Lil' Wayne is sorta gross. You get the picture.
NavyBrat| 4.14.09 @ 10:40AM
Easy. Ruth. Not everyone who listens to Dave is a tofu eating pansy. JHarp just thinks that if we talk nicely to people they'll be nice to US. Hey, JHarp, I got a newsflash for you sonny. If we were to send in a couple of battalions of Marines, supported by f-18s, to wipe out the bases these pukes stage from, then the problem would abate. I hardly think that the drama queen numbers that you project for such an action would come to pass. Somehow or another, I get the feeling that the Marines would inflict FAR more casualties than these lice infested malcontents. If anyone's the "armchair general" here, its you, since you obviously think that these pukes could stand up to our forces. Then again, given the Dem/lib propensity for sending our guys into a bad situation with one hand tied behind thier backs, a la "Blackhawk Down," maybe they wouldn't. Then pansies like you & your Messi-UH will be able to say that the cost is too high, & run like a Frenchman after wasting American lives in your little version of a "pc/peacekeeping" action. We have 18 dead Ranges & Delta guys to attest to how well that m/o worked the FIRST time it was tried.
Thomas| 4.14.09 @ 10:41AM
jharp,
Lets hear your briliant plan to stop the Somalian piracy problem, and remember it has to stop the problem not appease the pirates.
Should we send them aid and food like Bush41/Clinton did, I suppose that being well fed will make them give up piracy.
I suppose if we send them five or six billion they will leave american shipping alone, that might work and whats another couple billion on a 2-3 trillion debt in the next budget.....
Hell if Obama was thinking he could have had it added it to the stimulus package.
And please don't waste time on internet dares, it is like masturbation, you are the only one that wants to see that.......
and Curtis you know jharp is right in a way about the special forces thing, only in it is a waste of time, it is much more efficient to use predator drones armed with hellfire missiles to destroy the ships /boats/skiffs that the pirates less dangerous for the military, we don't want another 4,500 dead in a ground war in Somalia, air power is much more efficient.
jharp is going to continue to fawn all over how brave and dangerous Obama was during the Somalia crisis, and how he personally got rid of those nasty pirates, but just you wait there will be a whole lot of hemming and hawing over how to deal with the overall pirate problem in that part of the world but, NOTHING IS GOING TO BE DONE ABOUT IT......
Six months a year at most and there will be another American ship taken, The US will be lucky if half the crew is not dead before the pirates put in the first call....
Thomas F| 4.14.09 @ 10:45AM
jharp said:
"Now the best part: It turns out that "President Pantywaist" overturned George W. Bush's timid dithering on the issue in unleashing those Navy SEALs:"
There were no piracy attacks in eight years on Bush's watch...... I wonder why that was........things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmm?!?!?!?!?
Thomas F| 4.14.09 @ 11:53AM
What really happened.....
http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2009/04/o-lightning-response-team.html
ruth| 4.14.09 @ 6:06PM
No offense meant, NavyBrat--my comments were specific to jharp, (Who seems to have disappeared). I've tired of this moronic libtroll who hurls his invective at anyone Conservative. He was also rude to Thomas--a new poster, I believe. About Dave Matthews: Did you know that the Illinois Attorney General sued him and his band for illegally dumping over 800 lbs of raw sewage from their tour bus into a clean waterway? Further, the raw sewage soaked some unfortunate tourists who were sightseeing below. I've always thought Matthews looked mealy-mouthed--but this incident really turned me off on the guy. Typical liberal hypocrite.
ruth| 4.14.09 @ 6:11PM
I wouldn't mind eating tofu if I could get past the disgusting taste. Just the smell makes me sick. Yuk!