The American Spectator : Tea Party Nation

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Tea Party Nation

By Robert Stacy McCain on 11.13.09 @ 6:08AM

Ordinary Americans make themselves heard.

ORLANDO, Fla. — Andrea Shea King stood backstage during Thursday night’s Tea Party rally at Lake Eola Park here, where thousands turned out on a cool, overcast evening to raise their voices for liberty.

“You should have been here in March,” said King, who spoke at one of the earliest rallies in what has since become a nationwide phenomenon. “It was mobbed — and the media barely paid attention.”

The media are paying attention now. They have no choice. Over the past nine months, hundreds of thousands of citizens have answered the Tea Party movement’s call to direct involvement in politics. Their activism has ignited the spark that now threatens to incinerate the agenda of Hope and Change that once seemed impervious to conservative opposition.

Nine months ago, commodities analyst Rick Santelli was interviewed from the floor of the Chicago Board of Trade about the stimulus-and-bailout policies of the new administration. At 8:11 am. Eastern time on Feb. 19, Santelli launched into a rant that instantly became a YouTube classic.

Turning to the commodities traders in Chicago, Santelli asked: “How many of you people want to pay for your neighbor’s mortgage who has an extra bathroom and can’t pay their bills?” He was answered with a chorus of jeers.

“President Obama, are you listening?” Santelli then asked. “We’re thinking about having a Chicago tea party in July. All of you capitalists that want to show up to Lake Michigan, I’m going to start organizing it.”

Santelli didn’t have to organize. His rant on CNBC inspired other Americans to emulate the spirit of the original Boston Tea Party in 1773. They spontaneously staged rallies in their communities, far from Chicago. The Tea Party movement begun that February morning has been supported by major conservative institutions — including FreedomWorks and Americans for Prosperity — but the movement itself is organic, generated by the passions of the people who turn out for the events.

Ron and Kay Rivoli, a musical duo who have performed at more than 70 events on two Tea Party Express tours, estimate they have appeared before crowds totaling in excess of 350,000 — not including the 9/12 March On Washington, which drew a throng that topped a million, according to some estimates.

Protest songs like “USSA” and “Big Fat No” have made the Rivolis celebrities on the Tea Party circuit and earned them an appearance on Mike Huckabee’s Fox News program. A similar newfound fame has enveloped others associated with the movement, including Kenneth Gladney, who was beaten up while selling flags at a St. Louis town hall meeting hosted by Rep. Russ Carnahan (D-Mo.). Gladney spoke at Thursday’s Lake Eola Park rally where he waved the Gadsden Flag and invoked its famous revolutionary motto, “Don’t Tread On Me.”

More than anything else, the Tea Party protests encouraged conservatives who seemed downtrodden and dispirited in the wake of Barack Obama’s electoral landslide of a year ago. Some have cited Tea Party activists as the grassroots foot soldiers who helped produce the off-off-year victories for Republicans in the New Jersey and Virginia gubernatorial elections.

Yet this uprising of “patriots,” as the Tea Party people proudly call themselves, also threatens to disturb the GOP status quo.

It is something of an ironic accident that the Tea Party Express tour’s final stop was here in Orlando. Florida has become the Alamogordo Test Range for the Tea Party movement’s mushrooming power, and this state’s Republican establishment may soon feel the thermonuclear blast. As The American Spectator’s Tampa-based Larry Thornberry reports today, Florida GOP chairman Jim Greer and Gov. Charlie Crist have found themselves in the crosshairs of reinvigorated populist sentiment.

The grassroots energy that has made Crist’s Senate primary challenger Marco Rubio a hero to conservatives resembles one of the tropical storms that so frequently strike the Florida coast: powerful, unpredictable and capable of inflicting cataclysmic damage wherever it makes landfall.

The Tea Party movement has drawn into politics people who have seldom been part of the process before. At last night’s Lake Eola Park event, a woman in blue jeans distributed orange flyers advertising a “Freedom Rally” scheduled for February’s annual Bike Week in Daytona Beach. When hell-raisers on Harleys come roaring into the national debate, who can predict the outcome?

“Hey, Pelosi, You Don’t Speak for Me!” one handmade poster in the Orlando crowd proclaimed. “We are the American People and We’re Not Going Away!”

Rick Santelli asked in February if Obama was listening. Is he listening now?

topics:
Tea Parties

About the Author

Robert Stacy McCain is co-author (with Lynn Vincent) of Donkey Cons: Sex, Crime, and Corruption in the Democratic Party (Nelson Current). He blogs at The Other McCain.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (423) | Leave a comment Leave a comment

Appleby| 11.13.09 @ 6:34AM

Is Obama listening? No. He has both hands over his ears and is yelling LALALALALALALALALA!

Barbara Espinosa | 11.13.09 @ 7:13AM

What "The Other McCain" didn't tell you was that he was treated like Royalty backstage at the Tea Party from staffers to Speakers and Organizers of the Tea Party . The grand old guru of the blogs was sought out by Tea Party participants to be phographed with and interviewed by him. You would'a thought the highest muckey-muck had arrived to bestow geni wishes on everyone. It was a sight to behold to watch him flutter from one interview to another greeting the females with charm and hugs. He was so - so greeting the fella's ,but they were all glad to see him and posed ,joked and talked about the last time they had seen him. All said ya'll come back now ye hear.

Doorgunner| 11.13.09 @ 7:42AM

You sound bitter; didn't he greet you with "charm and hugs"?

Finrod| 11.13.09 @ 11:22AM

And rightly so. How many other people not in government can you name that have done more to advance our cause of freedom and liberty and justice?

ds80| 11.13.09 @ 12:52PM

Barbara, your post is nothing but sour grapes.

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 11:47AM

Imagine a hug from Mcain. It would be like a hotel heart shaped bed ride. All shaky and stiff with stains on the front of it.

Terry Evans| 3.31.10 @ 12:31AM

Plesae note that even Sarah is endorsing him in AZ. And she can see Russia from her front porch. Even the moose in Alaska are for McCain!

martin j smith| 11.13.09 @ 7:58AM

There are two things: First Protests should continue and get as large as possible. But second, for now it is important to be aware that the Democratic Leadership and Obama himself appear not to care what the voters think or want. This is extremely important to comprehend . This inspite of its incomprehensible nature. What to do ?

I do have a suggestion: At some point begin the idea of impeachment. Start this suggestion around blogs and other arenas

GMAN| 11.13.09 @ 12:35PM

We dont have to impeach him. We only need to get his college and other SEALED record released and he'll HAVE TO resign becasue they will PROVE his unconsitutionality.

C.K. Amos| 11.15.09 @ 2:45PM

The cows will be sitting on the verandah, smoking Cuban cigars and sipping mint juleps before Obama releases those records.

You know that, I know, he knows it, the American people know it.

If a legitimate copy of his records, including place of birth and citizenship could be found, and were exposed, I believe that would plunge America in civil war for lots of reasons. The main one would be that Obama would not surrender, the Democrats and Obamabots, of all colors and tongues, would rise violently against this.

By the way, he would be a perjurer, if the took the oath of office illegally. And everything he'd signed, including treaties, would be void.

HUGE potential problem, one that will not go away regarding his now-almost-$2-million campaign to resist release of these records.

Mike | 11.13.09 @ 6:55PM

There is already an "impeach obama" website, try a Google search to find it. I can't recall if it originated at WorldNetDaily or the 912 project. Hope you find it and bring many more signatories to it. BO and his minions obviously don't care what we peons think.

victor| 11.14.09 @ 12:29AM

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/3/impeach-obama

http://www.obamaimpeachment.org/

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 11:48AM

ha ha the old impeach petition. That didn't even work against Clinton or Bush. Good luck with that.

Terry Evans| 3.31.10 @ 10:39PM

The 912 project? Birth certificates? How does any of this stuff make this country a wiser, stronger nation?
They'll desicrate anything but that old flag,
they'll hold it high in their hands.
But I'll tell you my worry is not for Old Glory,
but the country for which it stands.

C.K. Amos| 11.15.09 @ 2:40PM

Has he actually done any impeachable offenses? I ask honestly.

By his behavior, especially abroad with his continual put-down of America, has he evidenced that he's broken his oath of office? I think so.

Danny| 11.15.09 @ 9:36PM

lOOK UP RUTH AnnRiley>RILEY

OldNavyChief| 11.13.09 @ 8:24AM

In the beginning of the American Revolution, there was not a universal acceptance of the idea of independence. Many loyalists still clung unto the idea that somehow King George could be presuaded not to tread on the rights of the colonists. But like all tyrants, he turned a deaf ear on his subjects needs and the results changed the world. From a small group of freedom loving people grew a tree called Liberty. The tyrants in Washington are no better than old King George and will hear our voices.

GMAN| 11.13.09 @ 12:37PM

I agree. Seeing Barney Frank on TV picking dirt from under his nails as he condescendingly denies having anything to do with the financial meltdown brought to mind how contemptuous he and the rest are of US, just as the King was.

Al Adab| 11.13.09 @ 2:47PM

To borrow a phrase:

Al Adab| 11.13.09 @ 2:47PM

To borrow a phrase:

Al Adab| 11.13.09 @ 2:47PM

To borrow a phrase:

Al Adab| 11.13.09 @ 2:50PM

Wow! I messed that up big time. Darn Arthritis

"Ceasar had his Brutus and Charles the first his Cromwell, George the third may profit by their example." Fortunately we don't have to pursue that option, but we must pursue our Liberty.

Guitanguran | 11.13.09 @ 8:29AM

Well, Ms. Espinosa, is there anything Mr. McCain wrote in his column that is patently false?

hunter| 11.13.09 @ 8:52AM

While the temporarily ruling self righteous class may dismiss the tea party, someone should remind them about the sequence of events of the original tea party. Mainly that the tea party was a gentle wake up call. But I suppose liken to King George, Prince Barry and Queen Pelosi deem themselves as gods.

Appleby| 11.13.09 @ 9:16AM

"Remind" them? We must INFORM them. I don't think this lot ever actually knew any of this in the first place.

We had an East German pastor in our Lutheran church who used to rail at the congregation about the evils of capitalism weekly. Once I showed him this quotation:

"No man should dare to ask a just God's blessing to wring his bread from the sweat of another man's brow"

And I asked him if he agreed with that or not. He ranted against it, as you can imagine. Then I told him it was a quote from Abraham Lincoln's Second Inaugural Address, and that it in fact referred to his opposition to slavery. And then I asked him if he, preaching in Atlanta, knew who Abraham Lincoln was.

You could send that quotation to Obama and his myrmiddion today and get the same response.

crookedwren| 11.13.09 @ 10:11AM

Thanks for sharing this with us!

Richard Baker| 11.13.09 @ 9:32AM

The Kontemptuous Kenyan thinks that we're the rabble to be ignored. When he finds himself out on his as...well his rear-end, then he'll understand why the US is not Europe. Sic Semper Tyrannis.

George| 11.13.09 @ 10:37AM

Careful. I understand that this is the Virginia motto and a good one, but they were also the words of a man who murdered a president.

ds80| 11.13.09 @ 12:59PM

Careful of what? and why? Avoid certain words because ... huh?

I will not capitulate to silly notions of "careful-speak".

gatoray57| 11.13.09 @ 4:39PM

Right on ds80! No "careful speak" for all with the courage to "Speak The Truth With Boldness" I will not be intimidated by the lefty "polite police" especially after they spend every day of the Bush administration spewing the most hateful invective imaginable.

Geodome| 3.31.10 @ 11:09PM

So let me get this - - - we are so smart that the people of this country could not possibly learn anything from other countries AND how we use language is totally unimportant. Is this coming from any of the same people who wrap themselves in all that careful language called the Constitution?
And you wanted Palin as vice president, too, I supposes?

1Freeman| 11.13.09 @ 9:50AM

Folks,

In my experience ( combat related, Ph.D. in academics and science, active duty military) when a man or organization so blatantly ignores what appears to be a significant threat to it's existence there is a reason. Obama and the Dems are refusing to listen or respond to the Conservative Right and we are acting like we don't get it. LISTEN CLOSELY: They have an edge and are not afraid at all. The money we can't account for has been set aside to rig the next election. Unions, ACORN, the Black Panthers, Muslims and every other liberal "thug" in an organization will be used to continue to attack this country. There will be no recovery in the next election unless something is done now. Mickey Mouse will somehow vote thousands of times all over this nation. The ballot box will be stuffed with the votes of the dead and their numbers will be exclusively Democrat. If we wait until the election returns are reported on CNN it will be too late. The liberal courts can’t even agree on the election fraud from the last election. We must take a stand NOW!
The election will be rigged. Period. Free Americans who blindly trust that their election ballots will be fairly counted also believe wrestling is real! There must be accountability and watchdog groups tracking this process. ACORN must be hounded and followed. The Republican Party needs to appoint poll watchers and participants and train them NOW in spotting, reporting and tracking fraud. THIS CAN NOT BE IGNORED!!! I have said this many times and here it is again: GET VIDEO of ACORN and the rest of the union thugs breaking the law and post it. Our freedom and our way of life is at war. We must fight back or it will be lost forever in 2010!

JimJam| 11.13.09 @ 12:23PM

I agree 100%. An old sales manager once told me "If you don't know who got the bid the day it's opened, you didn't". In other words the fix is in and you can bet the Dems are already planning their strategy for the next elections (especially after the VA and NJ drubbings they got). I just hope that the Socialists don't try to suspend or cancel the elections. Bloomberg changed the rules as did Massachusetts (Kennedy) when it benefitted them. Michael Steele are you reading this?

Stuart the Viking | 11.16.09 @ 4:47PM

"I just hope that the Socialists don't try to suspend or cancel the elections."

I respectfully disagree. If they were going to do anything this is exactly what I would want them to do. That way there would be no question. The government would be clearly invalid, and whatever response the people decided to have to that would be warranted.

But it won't happen. The election will go on as usual with only a small percentage of Americans bothering to vote. As always, there will be accusations from both sides that the other side is playing dirty pool but no way to prove it enough to make a differance.

The only differance for me will come if I go to vote and there are people with clubs out in front of the polling place. There wasn't last time, but it seemed to work out for Obama last time so maybe there will be next time. If that happens, I'm pretty sure I will be spending some time in jail and/or the hospital (I'm not as young as I used to be) and I would encourage everyone. If you see ANYONE intimidating voters at a polling place, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! I don't care if they are Black Panthers, KKK, your mom, or anyone else. Even if it is someone from your own party. ESPECIALLY if it is someone from your own party! That crap has got to stop!

Louis Jenkins| 11.13.09 @ 9:53AM

It is near time to throw caution to the wind. If the Republican party leaders and their blue bloods cannot understand what is going on, then the Tea Party people and the GOP establishment need to part ways come what may. (A shudder here.) I don't like considering it, but what are the ramifications if the GOP hierarchy successfully dupes the Righteous Wing Rabble (again)? We're tried of being who-doed by all! The Tea Party is notifying the Dems and the GOP that we are fed up. If they believe they don't need us, then are they needed? Bring the Hog Riders, the hunters, the Red Necks, the Country Rubes, the truck drivers, and the Respected white collar Professionals. It won't be a big tent, it will be a big woodshed, and all will have a big stick to whoop those who need their backsides thrashed. When the sticks are turned into splinters with use maybe those high browed holier than thou types will understand even if they won't listen. Hear the Tea Partiers roar, oh high and mighty. A different kind of change is in the air, one state at a time.

Pingback| 11.13.09 @ 9:56AM

THE “OTHER” McCAIN – TREATED LIKE ROYALTY IN THE ‘CITY BEAUTIFUL’ « The Radio Patriot links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

IN – TREATED LIKE ROYALTY IN THE ‘CITY BEAUTIFUL’ Filed under: Uncategorized — radiopatriot @ 9:56 am Over at American Spectator, Robert Stacy McCain is using my name in vain. Tea Party Nation By Robert Stacy McCain on 11.13.09 @ 6:08AM ORLANDO, Fla. — Andrea Shea King stood backstage during Thursday night’s Tea Party rally at Lake Eola Park here, where thousands turned out on a…

Rmm| 11.13.09 @ 10:39AM

A bumper sticker from a few years back comes to mind, If You're Not Outraged - You're Not Paying Attention. This could be repeated in spades today. The Left really does have a tin ear when it comes to decent and disagreement. They go after their own if somebody is not onboard with The Agenda. So the Tea Party crowds are nothing more than a pesky fly to them. This country was certainly set up in the last election, no telling what kind of malarky we see in the next round. Get your 40 acres and a small farm now, so you can fend for your family.

Terry Evans| 3.31.10 @ 12:44AM

My favorite bumper sticker is " The party of NO needs no encouragement ( if you no what I mean! )

Ken (Old Texican)| 11.13.09 @ 11:19AM

OK, folks
What do y'all think?

The local Republican nominating committees are your neighbors. Some stupid, some bright, some misguided, but mostly patriots working in the trenches.
As mentioned above, consider picking up the telephone instead of a pitchfork, and calling your local Republican committee. Go visit with them.
...if you can, and volunteer.
We at Team America are coordinating with many tea-party groups. They are delighted when we call and identify ourselves as TEAM America. They are volunteering by the thousands to get the right candidates in play.
Teaparty patriots website has links to hundreds of local orgs. Find one close by and help out there as well.
See, we have the troops, but we need some leaders with reasonable goals in mind to help them with their agendas.
We on the team have found nothing but warm welcomes, all over the country.
Please consider going to our website and read up on our thoughts and see if you are comfortable with them. The membership fee has now been waived, and believe me, when you call the campaign chairmen or the Republican committees and identify yourself as Team America and give them our web site or blog site, they will call you back with delight.
www.myteamusa.org
Thank you
Thoughts?

Margie| 11.13.09 @ 3:52PM

I'm on board, Ken. I figure we'd better get fighting now while it's early. There are lots of conservatives desiring to make a difference in the Republican Party, but they need willing workers.

OldPhart| 11.13.09 @ 10:31PM

"We at Team America are coordinating with many tea-party groups. They are delighted when we call and identify ourselves as TEAM America."

It is regretable that we must align ourselves with the republican party if there is any chance the reverse the current course. The republican's in Congress, the Senate, the last administration and the last Presidential candidate have all proven to be nothing more than democrat-lite.

The republican party proved, once again, it's complicity in supporting Scossafava in the NY 23 race and was complimented for that support by her prompt endorsement of the democrat candidate.

The republican congressmen, after acknowledging overwhelming constituent disapproval for the TARP Bank Bail-out, voted for it anyway.

You may present your organization as "TeamAmerica", but you are the sworn enemy of any Constitutionalist, in other circumstances we would be in battle against each other. In the present circumstance that battle will necessarily be delayed to overcome what we view as an opponent in common.

This alliance is temporary...do not forget it.

Margie| 11.13.09 @ 11:30PM

^^ Troll alert.

Margie| 11.13.09 @ 11:56PM

You're not credible. Instead of stealing someone else's handle and copy, and perverting them, if you had an ounce of credibility you'd come in here and introduce your own third party phony baloney all on it's own. Instead you do this which proves how desperate you are.

OldPhartbsa| 11.14.09 @ 1:25AM

Margie

If you're referring to me, I'm at a loss...stealing someone else's handle and copy? I don't know what you mean.

As to credibility, perhaps this will help:

http://www.theamericanconserva.....;Itemid=62

victor| 11.14.09 @ 2:18PM

Third Party Libertrollians.
But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Ron
You ain't going to make it anyhow with anyone

martin j smith| 11.13.09 @ 11:35AM

One slight change in my previous post: don't to talk about impeachment--start the ball rolling new. On what grounds ? In Obama's case: failure to uphold the constitution and failure to protect the American people. Obama swore an oath on these points.

stephanie| 11.13.09 @ 12:22PM

Martin,
It seems that NONE of those big heads in DC do a thing to uphold the constitution. As one of them told FOX news, "we just make laws and let the courts sort it out" THAT'S what we are dealing with. Bastatrds.

Ken (Old Texican)| 11.13.09 @ 3:18PM

Martin j
I t will never fly...soon enough. Can't happen with this congress. Period.
Quit wasting breath and electrons.

Terry Evans| 3.31.10 @ 1:08AM

OK , I fixed it. Thanks!

Terry Evans| 3.31.10 @ 1:17AM

Yes, that's exactly what Obama's health care reform bill will do. . . Protect Americans from the health insurance companys ! Thank you for making that point.

Liberal Reader| 11.13.09 @ 1:22PM

While polls suggest concern with the deficit and possible tax increases, there is just NO reason to consider a few thousand demonstrators as representative of "ordinary" Americans.

Consider this: Fox News boasts nightly audiences in the range of 2 million people, surely something to boast about.

Hundreds of thousands may have turned out for Fox News events ("tea party" rallies) over the summer and on 9.12.

So say there are 2, 3, even 4 million people who could be characterized in this way.

Well, last year over 120 million voted in the presidential election.

The most liberal estimates for the size of the tea bagger movement would keep it beneath five percent of the electorate.

The MAJORITY of Americans think Obama is doing a pretty good job; the majority of Americans think there should be some kind of public option in the health care legislation; a MAJORITY of Americans say they would be willing to pay higher taxes for improved infrastructure, education, and health care; a majority of Americans think Medicare and Social Security are worthwhile social programs.

These are not the sentiments of the frothing few, who claim that health care reform is LIKE concentration camps, and Obama is from Kenya, and so on.

These, in the end, are just a gaggle of hysterical know-nothings who are easily manipulated by cynical talk radio show hosts and Fox News.

Interested Conservative| 11.13.09 @ 1:34PM

Nice try LR - drop the slurs, and tune out the sneering and it's close to a neutral rebuttal.

Of more serious interest, though, is the question of when was the last time this country experienced a conservative mass movement? It's almost self-contradictory, but it is unusual in that so much of this effort resembles countless left-wing precedents.

Almost all polls, and most elections, reflect very vague generalities, even without monkeying with the questions/phrasing/intent. Occassionally we get a very focused and narrowly defined vote - which may be what's ahead next fall. Should be interesting.

martin j smith| 11.13.09 @ 1:50PM

Obama should be paying you by the word or even by letter. As for numbers --you do your count,I will do mine. But the poles are against Obama and Democrats. They know it and are behaving defensively by outright lying about what is in their legislation. 2000 pages and they lie about what is in it . So keep up your posts--we know who you are and that it. Thats all folks

PS to other readers: don't get bent out of shape from this guy

Liberal Reader| 11.13.09 @ 2:48PM

The POLLS damnit, not the "poles."

You guys always do that.

Now --

The polls, as Interested points out above, ARE very hard to read and mutable and downright mercurial.

Historically, however, it would be weird if Democrats did NOT lose the midterms next year. That's just the way it works. Bush would've lost his too if it hadn't been for 9.11. Reagan lost his; Clinton lost his.

But on ISSUES, Americans are not "tea partiers."

They ARE skeptical about government action on most things; they ARE nervous about health care reform; they ARE pissed off at Congress (perpetually); Obama's honeymoon is definitely over.

But you can't spin that into a belief that the nation has suddenly embraced the agendas of Michelle Bachmann, Sarah Palin, and Glenn Beck. It's just not true. And it's just not true that these demonstrations have been voicing the concerns of "ordinary" Americans.

Ordinary Americans just don't protest stuff; they never have. They SHOULD, God knows. They ought to show up on Wall St. and start lopping heads. But they won't.

They will vote, though. We vote. We're Americans. That's the way it goes. Win some, lose some: you guys lost last time, you probably won't next. That's not a revolution though, friends. It's just wishy washy America slushing back and forth and looking for some centrist, self-contradictory position to settle on.

SeattleBruce| 11.13.09 @ 5:35PM

You guys always do that.
++++++++++++++

Who are you, Ross Perot in front of the NAACP? Who are 'you guys?' LOL - you are a legend in your own mind...

Liberal Reader| 11.13.09 @ 8:59PM

Seattle --

Express your ideas in discursive prose. Do not write "LOL" as a way of saying, "I am laughing." It's foolish to do this. It's how thirteen year old girls communicate by text message. Be a man for Christ's sake! Make an argument.

victor| 11.13.09 @ 7:10PM

Simple Reader:
"The POLLS damnit, not the "poles."
Wronga! The Poles and the Czechs ARE against Obama and the democrats since they cancelled the missile defense shield.
Martin "But the poles are against Obama and Democrats."
Then again, the CHECKS are also against Obama and the dems since they are spending money hey don't have and are overdrawing America's checking account because they have to go back to the bank and get stamped more than they can stand.
To paraphrase Ernst Hollings:
"Too much stampin' goin' on heyah!"

Liberal Reader| 11.13.09 @ 9:01PM

Well, OK, Victor.

I acknowledge your wit here. And it's a fine effort.

JimE| 11.15.09 @ 5:33PM

LB,
Your jibberish is really funny, I think though you should demand more than the 25 cent a post you get.
Sorry to hear about your loss on the obama olympic commemorative tupperware.

Terry Evans| 4.1.10 @ 10:28AM

Martin

Please turn off rush & fox news. Step 2: please learn something about U S history that will give you a more balanced view of our country. Suggested reading: "A People's History of the United States" by Howard Zinn. Is there any danger in being too smart?

Rmm| 11.13.09 @ 5:18PM

You underestimate the opposition my friend. This post sounds like it could have come straight from the White House press room. If the majority of Americans think as you let on then the majority of Americans must be brain dead. If for one second you think we are on the right track, get back to me in a few years when you file your 1040!

SeattleBruce| 11.13.09 @ 5:27PM

just NO reason to consider a few thousand demonstrators as representative of "ordinary" Americans.
+++++++++++++++

What? A few thousand? Are you crazy? I've seen a few thousand in the middle of socialist Seattle...try millions pally. You can deduce whether millions of newly activated people represent America or not.

I know and have seen them up close and personal. I'm sure you haven't been to any of these events to make such determinations - laugh out loud!

Liberal Reader| 11.13.09 @ 1:25PM

We knew, too, when Obama was elected that a certain small portion of the white lower middle class -- uneducated whites -- would peel off and slide into out and out hostility towards the president and the government because of his race.

This is not surprising, and, thankfully, not very widespread. The bigotry is loud, and ugly, and fairly prevalent among this small demographic, but ultimately it's had its innings: history has passed it by.

Interesting Conservative| 11.13.09 @ 1:39PM

An extremely trifling concern, and I'd be surprised if there were any data to support this. Aside from the professionals (Jesse/Al, perhaps Pat B and a very few "culture"warriors), Sen. Moynihan's prescription has taken hold outside the media and governmentally inclined.

We really don't have any predominantly race-based political movements in this country aside from perhaps La Raza. The Klan and CAIR hardly matter anymore.

martin j smith| 11.13.09 @ 1:54PM

More lies: the independents who voted for Obama are leaving in droves As for bigotry--its all your folks who are really the most bigoted hypocrite I have ever seen in life. Everything is race,gender,ethnicity, whatever. Most people in this country know what is going on and in 2010--Acorn not withstanding-- will be voting against you and your party--so we shall see.

Doorgunner| 11.13.09 @ 1:58PM

Well, shucks, color me approriately chastised. Without your smug (yet-so-easily-wiped-off-your-face), over-weening condescension, I might have continued to believe it was about Oh,bummer's poll numbers, not the tiny, yet growing numbers of the Tea Party Set:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/113.....roval.aspx

Pete2| 11.13.09 @ 2:04PM

LR... it is obvious you haven't a clue about what you're talking about. Youy seem like some clueless democrat who just can't understand what is going on in this country concerning the rising resistance to Obama. Worse, you sound like a clueless snob who can't understand why people don't like Obama. Wake up, dear fool, before the tsunami of public disgust against Obama's policies overwhelm you or are you really so stupid to think otherwise? Keep posting, your ignorance is really humorous.

Liberal Reader| 11.13.09 @ 2:37PM

Pete2

That's just my point, Pete. It's not a "tsunami."

The numbers just don't support that conclusion.

Think about it: 120 MILLION people voted in last year's election. True, slightly less than half voted against Obama. But, not a very large portion of those people who did are really in the "tea party" camp.

In addition, the "tea party" movement is very ill defined. Other than broad claims about the "size" of government, they don't have a specific goal or agenda that they've articulated very clearly.

There's hysterical and paranoid accusations and conspiracy theories among the rank and file; the movement seems to attract people who go out of their WAY not to be informed on the issues.

Then there's an extremely questionable leadership, that has weird connections with PR firms and lobby organizations that do NOT represent the interests of "ordinary" Americans.

Tonight, when you tune in to Glenn Beck or Sean Hannity, remember this: it's a big audience you're joining, but only by cable news standards. When weighed against the electorate as a whole, you're among a very, very small demographic.

So shout all you want.

And by the way: more power to you for taking an interest in politics. Now, start reading good newspapers, good journals, good magazines, and most importantly GOOD BOOKS so your participation can be INFORMED and productive.

ON bigotry in your numbers:

Most conservatives are not bigots. I understand that. However, bigots do gravitate to these wilder fringes.

Remember the great intellectual founder of modern conservatism, William F Buckley, and others like Jack Kemp, who worked their whole lives to drive bigots out of the conservative movement and expand its reach beyond the fat-assed middle aged white men who always seem to dominate it.

Word to the wise.

Margie| 11.13.09 @ 3:15PM

You're so damn tiny down there in that ant hole. I know it looks like there are millions of you from where you sit, but you need to come out into the big wide world and take a look around.

Doorgunner| 11.13.09 @ 3:22PM

So, you're saying the Tea Party folks are the conservative movements bigoted fringe?

And are you coming out with an 'approved reading list' soon? Personally, I've always been satisfied with Harold Bloom's "Western Canon", but, at the same time, I believe Allan Bloom's "Closing of The American Mind" better describes you; or rather, your betters as you perceive them.

Doorgunner| 11.13.09 @ 3:25PM

And, might I add, your use of ALL CAPS lends your pronouncements a certain erudite gravitas.

Liberal Reader| 11.13.09 @ 3:58PM

I think you're confused about how both Blooms think about American society. Nevertheless, yes, I do think there's lots of bigotry in the tea party fringes. You don't have to be a social prophet to figure it out.

Doorgunner| 11.13.09 @ 4:45PM

We could discuss the "Blooms" but it's not relevant, except for maybe the latter part of Allan's tenure at the U. of Chicago; one might correlate a de-emphasizing of intellectual curiosity in academia more readily with contemporary politically Liberal certitudes than with the ignorance you purport is rampant on the right. However, what is most salient here is your 'broad-brush' insistence that the Tea Party movement is a bastion of bigotry and ignorance, e.g. your post of 1:25 PM.

It is interesting that while you condescendingly advise commenters here to read "good" periodicals, journals, and books, you offer no references, nothing empirical at all, to bolster your assertions regarding Tea Party types.

I suspect it is because all of your information has been gleaned from sources such this web-site, only with a strongly Left-leaning perspective rather than right. It certainly isn't because you've attended any of these events.

And as for bigotry at large, or rather, writ large, nothing you find in the right-wing "fringes" is ever going to surpass the damage done by the "soft racism of low expectations" perpetuated by failed Great Society programs that your ilk just won't let die...

...because you're arrogant, condescending, smug, closed-minded racists without neither the humility or courage to admit fallibility.

Liberal Reader| 11.13.09 @ 7:38PM

Allan Bloom was rather heroic at the end of his life. He was a homosexual and among the early people who died of AIDS. He suffered tremendously awful physical ailments and still worked on a book about love, friendship, youth, and democracy, among other themes. I respect him, and if more conservatives would read him instead of the boring, braying, shallow books written by radio disc jockeys, they'd be a great deal more interesting to talk to.

I could recommend some specific journals and newspapers as a matter of fact.

If you find yourself annoyed by the liberal tendencies at the Post and the Times, read the WS Journal. Read The Economist. Read the National Review. But also read things you disagree with: it's good for the soul. Read the New Yorker, the Atlantic, and Harpers. You might not always like their politics, but they have fantastic, first rate writers.

Liberal Reader| 11.13.09 @ 7:41PM

By the way, getting away from politics for one moment, if you like A. Bloom, you definitely must read Saul Bellows last novel, Ravelstein, which is based upon his friendship with Bloom. It's a really good read.

Doorgunner| 11.14.09 @ 7:45AM

Way to address one sentence of my response, champ. And not tell me anything I obviously didn't already know. And way to cite three publications (New Yorker, Atlantic, Harper's)that purport to be one thing, but are, in fact, another. How fitting.

victor| 11.13.09 @ 7:25PM

Simple Reader:
"certain SMALL portion of the white lower middle class .... not very widespread. "
"yes, I do think there's LOTS of bigotry in the tea party"

This is what's known as speaking out of both sides of your mouth or being double-minded about things.
Which is it????
Small or Lots?

SeattleBruce| 11.13.09 @ 5:30PM

Think about it: 120 MILLION people voted in last year's election. True, slightly less than half voted against Obama.
+++++++++++++++

Gallup, which had Indies tied between Ds and Rs in July, now shows Indies supporting Rs by 22 points...how 'bout those numbers Lib - do you suppose *they* represent America?

Liberal Reader| 11.13.09 @ 7:31PM

Yes, Seattle, you're right. Independents are moving away from the president. But they're NOT becoming Michelle Bachmann drones or hollering outside the White House in these Fox News events.

You need to work on the ol' ability to hold two different thoughts in the mind at the same time.

Try meditation. Or prayer. Something to calm yourself to the point where you can use the brain God gave you to THINK.

We ALL represent America. That's why they call it "America" and not something else.

You live in a pluralistic, complicated, extremely rich, multi-faceted, wildly unpredictable, exuberantly dynamic society.

SeattleBruce| 11.13.09 @ 5:32PM

Most conservatives are not bigots. I understand that. However, bigots do gravitate to these wilder fringes.
++++++++++++++++

And not to the insane liberal/socialist/communist fringe that has taken root in the Obama admin? Rich man! At least be intellectually honest...puhlease.

OldPhart| 11.13.09 @ 10:58PM

As to a platform, this is a start:

http://www.theamericanconserva.....;Itemid=62

Margie| 11.13.09 @ 11:59PM

Not credible. See above post. Comes in here hijacking Old Tex's format and organization. Troll.

oldphartbsa| 11.14.09 @ 1:27AM

Ah, someone has the 'OldPhart' handle already on American Specator, sorry.

They should have an email match to prevent that. I've modified mine to be clear that I'm not a troll. And the website, if you'd kindly check, is real.

http://www.theamericanconserva.....;Itemid=62

JP| 11.13.09 @ 2:08PM

Ah yes, LR, those Bitter Clingers. Those drunk, unemployed pieces of White Trash who commit adultery on Saturday only to repent on Sunday. We all know they inhabit the trailer parks, have thier old Dodge pick-up up on blocks, and watch Fox News while they swill Blatz beer. Did I leave out anything?

victor| 11.13.09 @ 7:13PM

Simple Reader:
"uneducated whites -- would peel off and slide into out and out hostility towards the president and the government because of his race."
Wronga!
It is because of his failed marxist economic policies and his Stalinist Political Methods.

Liberal Reader| 11.13.09 @ 7:27PM

Victor --

Stalinist methods?

Do you know ANYTHING about Stalin?

Listen, you jackass. You need to educate yourself about the historical events to which you refer.

It is utter and complete ingratitude to sit at a computer, safe in a successful, wealthy democracy, enjoying political liberties undreamed of in other countries, and claim that you are being oppressed the way the people under Stalin were oppressed. It's gross, abject moral turpitude to talk that way.

Pete2| 11.13.09 @ 8:38PM

Man, you are so full of hot air...you remind me of some of those psychotic left wingers that blog in my local rag. No matter what is said or evidence presented, they continue on their psychotic rambling BS. What a waste of time you are. You really are one ignorant fool and you actually think you are making points in your posts? You only show how intellectually voided the left has become.

victor| 11.13.09 @ 11:53PM

Evidence, shmevidence, libs don't need no stinkin' evidence.
Theme song:
I am Liberal!
Hear me Bore!

victor| 11.13.09 @ 8:45PM

Simple Reader:
"?---?---?"
What I know about Stalin was what my father told me.
He hung around with Stalin's son and met The Moustache once.
He escaped from the "Worker's Paradise" that you bloody liberals are trying to turn this country into.
The first 25 years were lived under oppressive conditions and the only way to escape was to become an engineer and join the Soviet Air Force.
He used his graduation present, The Stalin Prize, which was a watch, to bribe a German prison guard.
He escaped and never went back. He made it to Munich and later to Canada.
Even years late while visiting friends in Canada, he pooh poohed their dream of going back to Russia. "Rodina, maya Rodina" (Motherland, My Motherland) he joked, My home is here, meaning America. Til the day he died, he never regretted coming here or becoming an American.
Further down, that is my father's story put in by my wife Marj.
Read it. If you dare.
And PS, he never thought about sneaking in or overstaying a visa. My parents waited in Canada for 10 years til his number came up. And then we came.
Oppression? My mother spent six as a "guest" of the German Government in a slave labor camp near Wolfsburg. She was liberated by the British Army and helped to get to Canada.
Maybe you could ask her what oppression is and why she would never go back?
She was oppressed by two oppressors.
My father did not fight for the government or Stalin, but for Russia. Millions of him did, just as millions of fathers fought for this country to ensure that we stay the way we are, successful, wealthy, and enjoying liberty and freedom. Not tyranny.
Yes, we are being oppressed: by the the man that you worship, revere and admire.
So well spoke, so well dressed, so well educated.
Well, Simple, wake up.
The Clothes have NO Emperor!

Oh, and by the way, I've met many people that have escaped Stalinism and Communism along the way and I've only met one guy, probably a happy unionist, that wanted to go back. Too hard to be an American, he said.
I forget what I told him, but I should have told him: Freedom isn't Free! You have to work at it.
That's why I'm proud to be a Tea Party Republican.
Our Big Tent is Reagan's Big Tent. You can join us or get out of our way!
We welcome all that want to be Americans.
Old Fashioned Americans!
Founding Father Americans!
Choose this day whom you will serve.

Liberal Reader| 11.13.09 @ 8:55PM

So much the more you should understand how reprehensible and fatuous it is to compare the country you now live in to Soviet Russia.

Just the fact that you're free to listen to the zaniest, most outlandish nonsense all day long on talk radio -- if you wish -- filled with nasty, swinish attacks on Obama proves my point.

You're in the new world now, bub. Freedom comes with responsibilities of good citizenship:

By all means criticize the government and Obama. It's a great thing to do. Comparing him to Stalin, though, destroys your credibility and makes you sound like just another nut.

And don't tell me who I serve and who I "worship." You don't know me. I criticize Obama all the time, and I certainly criticize him better than you do.

Nick| 11.13.09 @ 9:40PM

Victor,

Your father and mother sound like great Americans. Thank you, and Margie, for sharing their stories.

Gee, who has more credibility on whether or not President Ditherer is using Stalinist Methods?

Victor?
Whose father escaped the "Workers Paradise" while millions of his countrymen didn't.

Or Marxist Reader/Fouled-Mouth Mr. Hyde?
Who probably hasn't done an honest day's work in his life and just regurgitates what his commie professors spoon-fed him in college, like a good useful idiot.

I think I'll go with Victor.
When were you in the Army, again, Marxist Reader?

Liberal Reader| 11.13.09 @ 10:29PM

Nick --

You, like Victor, have a difficulty distinguishing between things that you find disagreeable (the Democratic party, for example) and monstrous evils (Stalinist Russia).

That lack of discernment (think back to your St. Paul, now, Nick) is really troubling.

Victor doesn't have anymore credibility than I do because of where his family is from. We don't do it like that in America, for one thing, and for another, he's simply WRONG.

Objectively, factually, actually wrong.

I realize you guys are trained by Limbaugh and Beck to speak in unrestrained hyperbole and ignore facts, but at some point the TRUTH has to count for something.

As a matter of historical, actual FACT, Obama is NOTHING like Stalin, and it is morally abhorrent to claim he is. It's disgraceful, really.

It's like hearing fat suburban kids whine that they're "starving" because they missed their afternoon Twinky. The only thing to do is thwack them a good one and send them to bed with no dinner!

Of course you'll go with Victor, Nick. He happily dwells in the fact-free world that you do. No need to think there; no need to trouble everything with all the details of -- reality. Just pretend Rush knows everything, and relieve yourself of responsibility.

Nick| 11.13.09 @ 11:20PM

Marxist Reader/Fouled-Mouth Mr. Hyde,

To think that you know more about Stalinist Methods than someone whose father escaped Stalin's Russia is the definition of elitist arrogance.

I'm going with Victor because he hasn't repeatedly lied, spun, obfuscated, and called people four-letter names, like you have done. He has credibility, you don't.

You do not influence or persuade anyone here.

Again, when were you in the Army? Which units? What was your MOS? Do you even know what MOS stands for?

victor| 11.14.09 @ 2:22PM

Hey, Nick,
What's the difference between Stalin and Obama?
We know where Stalin was born.

Liberal Reader| 11.14.09 @ 3:25PM

Military occupational strategy; I was 11 hotel, third of the three o deuce: now go fuck yourself, hero.

Liberal Reader| 11.14.09 @ 3:26PM

specialty, not strategy

Nick| 11.14.09 @ 6:43PM

Marxist Reader/Fouled-Mouth Mr. Hyde,

Suuuurrrrre you were in the Army.
I believe you, I really do.

STRATEGY!!!!! Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!

Who told you that you were wrong? Come on you can tell me.
What is an 11-H, Rambo?

victor| 11.13.09 @ 11:37PM

Thanks so much Nick.
My father was a great engineer and a Great American and my mom is a great Mom and a Great American.
PS just to tick off the libs, he created the machinery that created the 2 liter soda bottle in the 70's.
He also created the machinery that embossed designs on gunstocks for rifles and shotguns.
Pretty neat, eh?
It's not hard to connect Obama to Stalin, after all, Obama's father was a Marxist as was his mother and he sat at the knee of Frank Marshall Davis who was friends with his grandfather.
Obama like Stalin has little use for the Constitution in contrast to his oath:
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
Where does Obama get the authority to take over any private enterprise?
Where does Obama get the authority to require that we all buy insurance?
Obama appoints unvetted and unapproved "Czars" to posts in the White House to act as a Shadow Government?
Obama and Stalin both want to take over the media, i.e, newspapers, tv, radio, and the cinema.
All content is to further the aims of the State.
Both review, revise and "launder" history, witnes those they send out to "correct" the record.
How many factual errors are put forth and repeated on this and on other websites?
Both have taken over heavy industry and currency markets, i.e., autos, banks, insurance, brokerage houses.
They give rights and take away rights, i.e.,
rights to "ununiformend enemy combatants" and taken from gun owners.
And lastly, they both decide what is news and who is a news organization.
The MSM, not to be confused with MSG, but just as toxic, is now taking the place of Pravda and Isvestia.
Old Joke from Soviet Union:
"There's no news in the Truth and no truth in the News!"
That's all for now, but I will illustrate with more similarities.
BTW there are similarities with the 25 Point Program of the National Socialists as well.

1 Peter 2:15-16
“For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men. Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God.”

Roy| 11.13.09 @ 9:53PM

"The Clothes have no Emperor" - I love it.

victor| 11.13.09 @ 11:00PM

Thank you Roy,
Feel free to use it.
It would make a good bumper sticker or tee shirt.
Imagine an Armani suit with the presidential seal on the breast pocket, eh?

Ken (Old Texican)| 11.13.09 @ 7:42PM

Hi Lib lips moving-reader.
I have the finest education a baseball scholarship to Baylor University could buy.
I was recruited to CEO a fortune sized company... the first time...... at age 27. (No nepotism heh, I am not Japanese.)
I just love making fun of you, twerp. Hang around for more laughs.

martha| 11.13.09 @ 10:46PM

YAWN......Are we back to the racism thing again? That's so 3 weeks ago.
It's old it's tired, we've heard it before. Try something new if you can think of something.

OldPhart| 11.13.09 @ 10:51PM

Personally, I could give a rat's ass about Obama's race, I'm more concerned about what I've observed on his foreign policy, his attempted appointments (and a few that made it), his apparent lack of concern for the value of the dollar (down nearly 20% just this year) and the loss of global currency status, the expansion of soical controls and gestapo-like security on american citizens, etc.

The spaghetti factory that are our legislative bodies, the House and Senate, are where my "white-man's rage" is directed. At present there aren't but a handful I wouldn't drop through a gallows. Practically EVERY measure proposed or enacted so far has been unconstitutional; not that this is new, they've been taking these actions since the days of Coolidge. But I've had enough, particularly when Bush started bailing out the banks, while our retirement - Social Security -(also Unconstitutional) has been allowed to fester and drain unstoppably.

Our nation is broke, our federal dollar is worthless, our retirement future has been stolen, and the likes of the vermin in Congress do nothing to mitigate the damage; only to expand it.

Everyone does realize, right, that when our government bailed out the car companies they voided the very rule of law our Constitution was designed to create. It's a contract between the People, the States and the Federal Government.

By violating the legal, valid contracts that the car company bondholders held to the benefit of unions and other special interest, the Federal government voided the rule of contracts and, hence, the Constitution.

victor| 11.13.09 @ 11:51PM

As with all Stalinists, he has no respect for the Constitution or the Oath that he took.
He violates the Bankruptcy laws just as a Stalinist would.
Laws? Laws? I don't need no stinkin' laws!
Not ever being part of a private enterprise company, he wouldn't know how one works.
Yeah, just put the unions in charge. They only care about benefits, not profits. After all, now that the Government (Obama) owns it, they can just ask him for a handout.

C.K. Amos| 11.15.09 @ 3:04PM

Your statement isn't bigoted? And intellectually, culturally and regionally biased?

Tell you what: You present credible data about your assertion and you might be believable. 'Til then, though, your words represent, Simply, simply the words of the intellectually constipated and cloistered--and culturally divisive.

JimE| 11.15.09 @ 5:37PM

LB,
If the "uneducated whites" can figure out there being scammed it won't be long until the "uneducated" minorites figure either.
Typical cheap stunt of trying to turn it into a racial arguement so you can scream bigot instead of debating the issue. You aren't even a useful idiot.

Nick| 11.13.09 @ 1:57PM

The best thing about Rush Limbaugh is he probably takes out a couple hundred liberals year, due to stroking out from listening to him, a la Judge Higginbotham during bubba the pervert's impeachment.

victor| 11.13.09 @ 11:02PM

I once read that 300-400 democrat politicians see the light every year and become Republicans unnoticed, whereas, one Orlon Spectacle crosses over and makes news for a month.

Pingback| 11.13.09 @ 2:49PM

The American Spectator : Tea Party Nation China Best Tea links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…Tea Party Nation Over the past nine months, hundreds of thousands of citizens have answered the Tea Party movement’s call to direct involvement in politics. Go here to see the original: The American Spectator : Tea Party Nation by admin | category: tea party | tags: agenda, direct-involvement, ignited-the-spark, incinerate-the-agenda, nine-months, now-threatens, over-the-past, party, past, spark, tea party, the-past…

Margie| 11.13.09 @ 3:12PM

The Thug Party, that would be the Deomcrat Party, the Party of Obama and the Obamamatons, always steal elections, that's the only way they can get elected. That and their deceitful pretending to be conservatives when they run and then suddenly become Socialist scum. Oh, is that too strong a word? Scum.
Hmm, I wonder if you could say we have a Thugocrisy right now?
Not for long though because despite the little liars both in the media and in cyberspace (read LibRead), the TRUE numbers that are sick of it all are a lot higher.
Just like the true unemployment rate is closer to 22% than the 10.1% the state run media liars proclaim it is. Nothing but deceit.
We the People are tired of it and are making a difference. But the liars will keep on lying because hey, they get paid for it.

Ken (Old Texican)| 11.13.09 @ 3:29PM

Margie,
Excellent points.

Do you happen to know what happened to all the German propagandists after World War II?

They were hanged.

Liberal NAZIS will suffer the same fate in at least a metaphorical sense after we win this WAR.

Can't you just picture LIb reader walking down 5th ave. in NYNY in shackels...or even better, a flowered lei and a dunce cap with all his buddies?

Margie| 11.13.09 @ 3:47PM

Poor, poor LibRead. He doesn't have a single clue as to the fact that there is no honor among thieves. But just as the Christians chose to help the imprisoned Communist guards who themselves were thrown in jail by their fellow Communists, we too will still offer LibRead a hand when the time comes.
My husband's Parents waited on a list for 10 yrs. in Canada to come here after escaping Nazi prison camps in Russia. His father was a p.o.w. He hung out with Stalin's Son in his youth and fought as a fighter pilot in the Russian Airforce fighting the Germans, fighting Nazi's. He graduated from the University of Leningrad, first in his class of engineering, and got a gold watch. He was shot down by the Germans and imprisoned in Yugoslavia. He bribed a guard using the watch and the guard looked the other way and he escaped. He made his to Munich, as he spoke German, and looked German, and was able to ride the trains, etc.
The point is, that for years, even into the 1960's, his father received letters from Russia entreating him to return, as his "talents in engineering" could be put to good use. In reality, all who would return would be imprisoned as TRAITORS! he wrote back and said he would NEVER return.
LibRead is comfy now, but if Obama continues his despicable dictatorship he should be aware that he is nothing but refuse to him!

One of them damn lib'rals| 11.13.09 @ 3:52PM

"All of you capitalists that want to show up to Lake Michigan, I'm going to start organizing it."

I got a better idea, Ricky. Show up in Lake Michigan, instead. It will at least wash the drool off your t-shirt.

victor| 11.13.09 @ 7:20PM

Hey,Dam Libral,
There's a bus leaving for Lake Michigan in ten minutes.
Be under it!

Pingback| 11.13.09 @ 5:01PM

The American Spectator : Tea Party Nation | accident no win no fee | by health links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…enveloped others associated with the movement, … It is something of an ironic accident that the Tea Party Express tour’s final stop was here in Orlando Go here to read the rest: The American Spectator : Tea Party Nation Other Related Posts: No Comments Posting your comment. Leave a reply name (required) email ( will not be shown ) (required) website Make Money Blogging Discover the Magic Formula to creating…

Liberal Reader| 11.13.09 @ 9:04PM

Victor --
I don't know why you want me to be run over by a bus, but it's uncivil. You should know better. Arguments about politics are just arguments about politics. Clean up your act.

Margie| 11.13.09 @ 9:16PM

LibRead,
He was talking to the above poster^^ not you.
Now if Toddard were here he would have accused you of being a really stupid person and/or an idiot, but hey.
But you sure are impervious to reality as to your above post in response to Vic's.
You actually care nothing for it. I really believe your sole purpose for being here is to get that paycheck from Soros or whoever. Either that or just to make your self feel good by exercising your book knowledge. You can have book knowledge but still be completely stupid.

Rmm| 11.13.09 @ 9:27PM

Lib Reader
You appear to be educated and well informed. I like the way you swoop in with one drive by after another. Entertaining , all the while toying with people you probably would not give the time of day otherwise. But who cares, it makes for lively debate.

Margie| 11.13.09 @ 9:30PM

That says it all, doesn't it? ^^

Roy| 11.13.09 @ 9:56PM

To me it primarily says "Ah for an ignore button..."

Pingback| 11.13.09 @ 10:14PM

TwittLink - Your headlines on Twitter links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…News news Images pics Video video Upcoming Upcoming emg Popular day Last week week Last month month Home all Technology it Entertainment en Games gm World&Business wb Sports sp Everything all Search search Tweets about this great post on TwittLink.com Search Headlines Twitter client Give your website the power of Twitter! Integrate a fully featured TwittLink Twitter client on your website and bring your Twitter…

Silent Majority| 11.13.09 @ 11:43PM

I would like to point out to Liberal Reader that though the tea party movement may be a few citizens and growing. And as he states Ordinary Americans just don’t protest stuff. That for every person that comes out there is ten who could not make it because of work or family obligations. But the most wonderful point is that most of us have not been active before, thus signaling a change in the Right. For a hundred year’s the left has been working night and day to bring about their agenda. They have built thousands of organizations mostly on tax payer money to advance the socialist cause. The Ordinary Americans are beginning to awaken and become active. We in the past have left the work to our party’s. But now we see that our country has gone way off coarse and we can no longer sit by and do nothing. So we start to talk to our family, friends and Neighbors about what is going on. Finding out that we are not alone in how we feel and believe. Take notice, this is just the beginning.

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 9:17AM

If anything, the only mention of tea party in the media is on American Spectator if you can even call this media. People are done with loonies complaining about taxes. To many blunders by the so called conservatives have squashed the tea party. Next month the KKK will have more recruits than the tea party and you will probably be one of them silent majority.

Blackwatch| 11.14.09 @ 4:19PM

Hey dead bacon,

Why are you so afraid of the Tea Partiers? Do you think that they might arouse the great sleaping giant known as the electorate? If you do, then atlease your are right about one thing today.

When the bills come due for all of the Democrat's spending orgy my unborn Grandchildren will have to pay them. The thieving cowards in the Democrat party won't even tax themselves to pay for this insane spending they are doing now. You can't pay for debt by printing money. When this country is bankrupted there will be a very hard course correction for the fellow travelers in the news media and the solons. It's coming--by ballot box or by bullets. It's coming and you can't escape it. Idiots.

Long live the Republic.

Moby Froll| 11.14.09 @ 6:29AM

The Caliphate is coming to the 57 United States of Islam! (We will divide up New Medina ("California") and New Saudi ("Texas") to get the seven new ones we need!)

There is nothing you weak-kneed Infidels can do about it!

Liberal Reader is a fine Quisling, and will be allowed to join the true faith after a ritual lashing, but we have many, many other sympathizers in your corrupt country!

Major Hasan was just the beginning! Your President bows to the King of Saudi Arabia, the Protector of the Holy City of Mecca, which no Infidel has ever entered!

You are weak and we have a friend in The White House!

We will put his face between Jeremiah Wright's and Nancy Pelosi on the Mount of the Prophet (what you Infidels call Mount Rushmore)!

If Liberal Reader continues his excellent advance work to prepare for the coming of the Caliphate, we may not behead him with the rest of you, and give him the choice of death or submission to the Allah the Most Merciful and his last and greatest Prophet!

We all know what he will choose.

Allahu Akbar!

Bydand76| 11.14.09 @ 6:29AM

I find it very disturbing that there is nothing being said to compare all of the protests being done by the Tea Partiers and the protests that occured during G.W. Bush's presidency.

Interesting to note how when the left protests anything in this country the mainstream media potrays them in a decidedly positive light.

If however a right leaning group of people protests it is almost always downplayed as fringe racist elements who are nothing more than a boring minority.

I think the left and the Democrats are making a grave mistake in not realizing where people stand in this country.

It should be noted that I think we are probably closer to open hostility and violence than we ever have been in this country since the civil war.

I know that everyone I talk to is pretty comfortable with the idea of taking the fight to a higher level. The left ignores this at their own peril.

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 9:23AM

No one is mentioning tea partiers because they are essentially a joke. They are more loony than code pink. I just remember rolling out of my chair in laughter when the tea partiers had two days of publicity. Bunch of angry rednecks not making a hill of sense. I guess if you need followers, it is best to find unintelligent blind ones.

Cervantes| 11.14.09 @ 10:02AM

Tu madre pendajo!

Blackwatch| 11.14.09 @ 4:22PM

Cervantes,

well said. You win the brevity award.

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 9:27AM

I bet the dorky and bitter right couldn't even fight their way out of the swamps of the flori-duh everglades let alone muster up enough people to make a difference.

Bydand76| 11.14.09 @ 10:16AM

You illustrate my point nicely DP.

99% of retired and current active duty military members are CONSERVATIVE !

I lived in the everglades for 3 months I know it pretty damn well. I know Georgia, Wisconsin, New York, California, Colorado and Texas as well.

You are a complete moron and have no clue what you are talking about.

I also know how to gut and slaughter pigs.

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 10:41AM

Who doesn't? Obama slaughtered that pig with the lipstick. You know which one I'm talking about.

Bydand76| 11.14.09 @ 11:29AM

Yeah right. Your obsession with Sarah Palin is comical at best. I dont get it. She is a private citizen now and everything she does seems to drive you libs in to fits and having kittens over the mere sight of her. Why? What gives? It is illogical to say the least.

I thought Muslims didnt like pigs?

What's BHO the Amoeba going to do when he gets the Swine Flu
Hmmm? Probably already got the vaccine though didnt he?

Oh and BTW nice way on avoiding the subject. I counter with a valid point and all you can do is bring up rhetorical pap.

typical to say the least, Pig.

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 11:32AM

Who made her a citizen? Your leader.

Bydand76| 11.14.09 @ 11:49AM

What?

She always was a citizen you goofball.

Bydand76| 11.14.09 @ 6:31AM

I also notice how the former sen. from Lousiana was convicted and it is a silent issue in the MSM.

Where is the bias now?

OldJoe| 11.14.09 @ 7:51AM

Congressman William "Dollar Bill" Jefferson, DEMOCRAT, Louisiana

martin j smith| 11.14.09 @ 8:11AM

Liberal reader is Barak Obama.

Bydand76| 11.14.09 @ 9:59AM

Defeated Pigs is Barney Frank

victor| 11.14.09 @ 2:23PM

S. L. Toddard is Uncle Joe Stalin

Cervantes| 11.15.09 @ 9:51PM

Cervantes is Ronald Reagan!

Si!
Victory is mine !

Take that maricon!

hunter | 11.14.09 @ 8:46AM

Obama is copying Robert Mugabe, President of Zimbabwe. Mugabe has taken over the banks, oil lands and industry. Their currency is dollars. they now have 100 trillion dollar notes that won't buy a loaf of bread. Have you ever wanted to be a multi millionaire? Well you will, soon. The only down side is that a whopper from Burger King will cost $75,000.00. Where this country stands today reminds me of a story, I heard, but don't remember where. A window washer fell from the top of a 100 story building. As he was falling to his certain death, he fell past the 50th floor, where there was a crew of window washers perched on a platform washing windows. "Hows it going?" asked one of the crew on the platform. Well said the falling man. "So far it ain't been bad" Thats where this country stands, on the economy, and everything else. This country stands at the door to the Greatest depression. Obama says he can pull us on through. Check out Zimbabwe, Cathy Buckle writes a newsletter every Saturday.

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 9:13AM

The tea party got dumped faster than Ben Stein from the New York times. No one cares about angry loonies complaining about taxes. Where were these knuckleheads when GW was wasting billions on Iraqi welfare?

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 9:20AM

"Over the past nine months, hundreds of thousands of citizens have answered the Tea Party movement's call to direct involvement in politics"

You should be proud, that's like one third the population of the State of Delaware. The tea party is really picking up steam. lmao.

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 9:32AM

This is why you don't let morons in to your party.

"Hey, Pelosi, You Don't Speak for Me!" one handmade poster in the Orlando crowd proclaimed. "We are the American People and We're Not Going Away!"

A) your just one person and B) Pelosi is only 1 person out of many.

If anything, Pelosi is not going away and your statement is already gone. Like the wind. Before it even left your mouth.

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 9:39AM

The extremely sad part of the whole argument is none of you Tea party protesters would even be charged a cent on their taxes. Idiots:

"The House Democrats' bill would raise $460 billion over the next decade from new income taxes on single people making more than $500,000 a year and couples making more than $1 million. There are also more than $400 billion in cuts to Medicare and Medicaid and a new $20 billion fee on medical device makers.

So when you slack jawed yokels step out of your shanties and wise up, the better off we will all be.

hesere| 11.14.09 @ 10:25AM

OK, what I don't understand is why you seem to think that the proposed changes in the house democrat bill are a positive thing?

I disagree with taxing individuals (and couples) in the very high tax bracket even more. They are already carrying the majority of the national tax burden.

I don't understand how cuts can be proposed in Medicare and Medicaid. Leaving the fact that these government run programs are full of inefficiencies aside, the people who will suffer at those cuts is the elderly.

And I guess I think a $20 billion fee on medical device makers is absurb. The way I understand it, if the company producing, say pacemakers, can't afford their portion of this monstrous $20 billion fee, they will be forced out of business. The American consumer market will start losing options to buy American and before you know it, we will have to have pacemakers, for example, from China or Mexico.

Perhaps it is you, defeated pigs, who needs to wise up and think beyond the immediate self-entitlement mentality and look down the road at the long-term implications of these things the current administration is trying to do.

Bydand76| 11.14.09 @ 11:03AM

Ok Stupid Deaf Pig again illustrates a important point!

"$460 billion over the next decade from new income taxes on single people making more than $500,000 a year and couples making more than $1 million. There are also more than $400 billion in cuts to Medicare and Medicaid and a new $20 billion fee on medical device makers.

So what this means is that roughly about 1% of the population will be receiving a $40 BILLION tax INCREASE over the next 10 years!!!

This roughly equates to a $4 billion a year increase on the people targeted by this tax!

Are you out of your FREAKING MIND!?!

This is so mind-numbingly stupid it is preposterous

1% of the population is currently 3,040,000.00 !
This means you need to get $4 BILLION a year out of 3 million people which comes to roughly about $1,316 EXTRA on top of what they already pay!

This would be an increase on their total gross income. You would still have state taxes to pay as well.

So if I was a single person making $500,000.00 PY my tax burden could be estimated at:
500,000 x 25% federal taxes = $125,000
500,000 x 20% state taxes = $100,000
Total taxes federal & state = $225,000

With the increase to generate additional $4 billion add an additional $1,316

225,000 + $1316 = 226,316

Net earnings on $500,000 = $273,684.

So basically what we have then is:
Net earnings on $500,000 = $273,684. AFTER the Goverment has taken its cut!

Almost half your income for the year is GONE from taxes alone!

You Liberals can go to Hell!

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 11:16AM

4 billion is a drop in the hat. Your assuming that everyone above $500,000 would foot the bill equally. That was your first flaw in logic. YOu can figure out the rest later.

hesere| 11.14.09 @ 11:43AM

The larger question looms in my mind... Why should those above $500,000 HAVE to pay this? I think that point that Bydand76 was trying to illustrate, but apparently went straight over your head, is that these people are taxed enough! OMG!!! Almost 50% of their income is gone to federal and state taxes alone! Good for them for having the motivation and ingenuity to put themselves in this top bracket. Taxing them at this rate is like punishing them for doing well. Why do they have to pay for those who do not have the same motivation and drive to succeed in their lives? Why do people who work hard to take care of themselves have to pay for those who expect others to take care of them?

You are not addressing the point, you are trying to wrap everything up in semantics.

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 12:22PM

It's the trickle up theory.

Bydand76| 11.14.09 @ 11:57AM

I think its pretty revealing that you think 4 Billion isjust "a drop in the hat".

Then again you are a liberal......

If that 4 bil was being spent to increase the military spending you would be having kittens right now and all the dope in the world couldnt calm you down.

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 12:07PM

I'm all for a strong military presence. I'm more of a defensive strategist as opposed to offensive but I'm no military expert and tend to just support whatever the military is called to do. They got Sadam and probably will Bin Laden soon or at least find out what happened to him.

Bydand76| 11.14.09 @ 8:21PM

Whatever, (laughing)

You have no clue what your talking about simpleton!

Deaf Pig =Barney Frank

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 11:30AM

Pacemakers are already made in China and Mexico. Where do you think the "medical device Makers factories are? When was the last time you saw a lithium ion battery factory in the united states. WHere are the motherboards manufactured at? Jackass

Bydand76| 11.14.09 @ 11:47AM

Ooops WRONG AGAIN Pig!!

Ever heard of the company called Medtronics out of the Twin Cities?

Guess what they make?
Pacemakers!

Motherboards and all.

Douchebag!

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 11:58AM

Let me guess, which countries do you think manufacture pace makers. douche:

Medtronic Locations

As a global leader in medical technology, we serve patients and partner with medical professionals in 120 countries. Below are our main regional offices; key manufacturing, service, and research and development facilities; and Bakken Education Centers for physician training.
United States - World Headquarters

710 Medtronic Parkway
Minneapolis, MN 55432-5604
USA
Phone: (763) 514-4000
Toll-free: 1-800-633-8766
Fax: (763) 514-4879
Mail Stop: L100
Asia Regional Headquarters

Medtronic International Ltd.
89 Science Park Drive
#01-11/12 The Rutherford
Singapore 118261
Singapore
Phone: (65) 67709473
Fax: (65) 67766355
Canada

Medtronic of Canada Ltd.
6733 Kitimat Road
Mississauga, Ontario L5N 1W3
Canada
Phone: (905) 826-6020
Fax: (905) 826-6620
Toll-free: 1-800-268-5346
Europe and Central Asia

Medtronic International Trading Sàrl
Route du Molliau 31
Case Postale
CH-1131 Tolochenaz
Switzerland
Phone: (41 21) 802 7000
Fax: (41 21) 802 7900
Greater China

Medtronic Medical Appliance Technology & Service
(Shanghai) Limited,
Beijing Rep. Office Suite 1805 -1812 E1 Tower Oriental Plaza
No.1 East Chang An Ave.
Dong Cheng District
Beijing, P.R., Beijing 100738
China
Phone: (86-10)5869 8989
Fax: (86-10) 85150866
Japan

Medtronic Japan Co., Ltd.
Comodio Shiodome
2-14-1 Higashi-Shimbashi,
Minato-ku
Tokyo, 105-0021
Japan
Phone: (81-3) 6430-2011
Korea

Medtronic Korea Co., Ltd.
5F, Sajo Building
1001, Daechi-dong, Kangnam-ku
Seoul, 135-280
Korea
Phone: 82-2-3404-3600
Fax: 82-2-3404-3609
Latin America

Medtronic USA, Inc.
Latin American Operations
Doral Corporate Centre II
3750 NW 87th Avenue
Suite 700
Miami, Florida 33178
Phone: (305) 500-9328
Fax: (786) 709-4244
Middle East and Africa

Medtronic Mediterranean SAL
Regional Development Centre (RDC)
St. Charles City Centre - 6th Floor
Omar Daouk Street, PO Box 13-6572
Beirut, 2020-0908
Lebanon
Phone: (961-1) 370 670
Fax: (961-1) 367 067

Bydand76| 11.14.09 @ 12:21PM

Yes !
They are an AMERICAN owned compay

What do you think will happen once a $20 billion fee is imposed on them ? How is that going to be reflected in their bottom line? Who is going to end up paying for this fee?

What is going to happen to all those jobs?

Maybe we can bail them out just like the auto
companies? After all its only taxpayer money right?

You just dont get it do you Pig?

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 1:13PM

It's not taxpayers money. It's a one time fee for continuing to make an absurd amount of money. Pay the fee and stfu if you want to continue to make money. It's the American way and it's been going on for decades no matter who is or was president.

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 1:18PM

It's not like the device makers won't up the fee to the customers to re-cooperate the money. What's that is like a $2 increase on peoples bills. No one will even notice.

victor| 11.14.09 @ 2:13PM

Hey DoucheBag, IT'S NOT YOUR MONEY!

Bydand76| 11.14.09 @ 8:17PM

You are completely wrong and by your posts I can tell that you have no idea as to what you are talking about in regards to economics.

The idea that a simple little $2 fee imposed upon their consumer base in order to pay a $20 BILLION TAX is ignorant.

This is an underlying problem with Liberals
No brains yet they seem to think that everyone who has the ability to make money can simply make more off of their money trees.

What happens when the money runs out Deaf Pig?
You dipstick commies never seem to understand this principle.

Money is not an infinite resource to be bandied about and used like toilet paper.

So by the company raising the price of its product to reflect its losses in order to pay the fee the consumer gets screwed. Therefore the consumer will look for a cheaper and better product. Therefore the company that paid the fee is now at an operating loss because it lost its consumer base.

Then the company will either have to streamline, reduce and/or liquidate its assests in order to stay operating as a viable entity. If it cant it dies.

Get it now dumbass? can you see how freaking moronic this little escapade of the Democrats is yet?

The slavish addiction to Keynsian econmic principles has been proven to be wrong time after time and still you buttheads refuse to see the light.

You get what you deserve Deaf Pig and remember this. You voted for this abomination.

victor| 11.14.09 @ 2:29PM

Hey Douche Pig,
Guess what,
Yours and everyone's taxes are going up on 12/31/09
When Obama and the dems let the GW tax cuts expire your taxes will go up!
They ain't gonna stop it and they don't care!
See what you get for voting for economic illiterates.

Bydand76| 11.14.09 @ 9:55AM

Whatever Pig,

the more you rant and rave the more you reinforce my belief that all liberals need to be eradicated from this planet!

Your nothing more than an ignorant butthead who seems to be struck with the typical affliction of your brain housing unit competely stuck up your waste evacuation tube.

( Your head is up your arse.)

Go away and bother someone else before your mommy makes you put her laptop down!

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 11:26AM

Thanks for explaining what a waste evacuation tube is. I wouldn't have figured it out otherwise. (sarcasm)

Bydand76| 11.14.09 @ 11:38AM

You're Welcome!
Glad I could help.

Mr.Reality| 11.14.09 @ 9:57AM

Liberal reader is making a huge effort to introduce and now enforce speech codes on this site. I suspect he is an academic and I pity his poor students. As far as how small a percent of the population the Tea Party represent he is engaging in nonsensical and unproven projections, although I am sure he will present a scientific equation to prove his point just like those global warming computer models that people like the late Michael Crichton demolished. Anyhow, LR wrap your self over rated mind around this concept-tip of the iceberg.

Mr.Reality| 11.14.09 @ 10:06AM

And as far as discernment LR, why not discern the difference between actual torture and enhanced interrogation techniques. Please clean up the excrement and garbage your own side has used to pollute the nation.

Bydand76| 11.14.09 @ 10:25AM

You know what is really funny.

I think its funny that you have liberal trolls who post in here on this format and heap ridicule and scorn on people who are simply exercising their right to voice an opinion by gathering together and protesting something they feel strongly about.

I would have thought that the liberals would applaud this and say that this is a good thing for our society. The opposite is true.

This is where their hypocrisy screams the loudest.

I find it immensly irritating to say the least.

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 10:43AM

WHat?

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 10:50AM

Protest all you want man it is your right. I'm just letting you know that no one is listening. It's like Rush Limbaugh in 2009. No one is listening.

Bydand76| 11.14.09 @ 11:17AM

Sorry, but the numbers dont work out in your favor Pig. If no one is listening then why do you care?

The Tea Parties are growing in size and strength regardless of what you would like to think.

But hey! Keep deluding yourself and telling yourself the opposite.

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 11:24AM

I actually don't care but was just voicing my opinion based on observation. Simmer down optimist.

Bydand76| 11.14.09 @ 12:27PM

Fair enough! (laughing)

Richard Baker| 11.14.09 @ 10:37AM

George:
Are you afraid of your shadow? I won't be "warned" not to repeat my Home State motto. Cowardly and fearful is no way to go through life. FIDO.

martin j smith| 11.14.09 @ 10:37AM

Liberal reader and his ilk get many of you going. Its time to think about the val;ue of a "debate" when there is no real discourse.

victor| 11.14.09 @ 2:12PM

Dear Reader and his minions are libertrolliers,
they are immoral, unlawful and illogical.
They deserve nothing but the back of our hand.
They cannot debate, because they are bereft of any facts. They traffic in unfounded and baseless opinions.

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 10:39AM

PALIN: Says she made frugality a point when traveling on state business as Alaska governor, asking "only" for reasonably priced rooms and not "often" going for the "high-end, robe-and-slippers" hotels.

THE FACTS: Although travel records indicate she usually opted for less-pricey hotels while governor, Palin and daughter Bristol stayed five days and four nights at the $707.29-per-night Essex House luxury hotel (robes and slippers come standard) overlooking New York City's Central Park for a five-hour women's leadership conference in October 2007. With air fare, the cost to Alaska was well over $3,000. Event organizers said Palin asked if she could bring her daughter. The governor billed her state more than $20,000 for her children's travel, including to events where they had not been invited, and in some cases later amended expense reports to specify that they had been on official business.

___

PALIN: Boasts that she ran her campaign for governor on small donations, mostly from first-time givers, and turned back large checks from big donors if her campaign perceived a conflict of interest.

THE FACTS: Of the roughly $1.3 million she raised for her primary and general election campaigns for governor, more than half came from people and political action committees giving at least $500, according to an AP analysis of her campaign finance reports. The maximum that individual donors could give was $1,000; $2,000 for a PAC.

Of the rest, about $76,000 came from Republican Party committees.

She accepted $1,000 each from a state senator and his wife in the weeks after the two Republican lawmakers' offices were raided by the FBI as part of an investigation into a powerful Alaska oilfield services company. After AP reported those donations during the presidential campaign, she said she would give a comparative sum to charity after the general election in 2010, a date set by state election laws.

___

PALIN: Rails against taxpayer-financed bailouts, which she attributes to Obama. She recounts telling daughter Bristol that to succeed in business, "you'll have to be brave enough to fail."

THE FACTS: Palin is blurring the lines between Obama's stimulus plan — a $787 billion package of tax cuts, state aid, social programs and government contracts — and the federal bailout that Republican presidential candidate John McCain voted for and President George W. Bush signed.

Palin's views on bailouts appeared to evolve as McCain's vice presidential running mate. In September 2008, she said "taxpayers cannot be looked to as the bailout, as the solution, to the problems on Wall Street." A week later, she said "ultimately what the bailout does is help those who are concerned about the health care reform that is needed to help shore up our economy."

During the vice presidential debate in October, Palin praised McCain for being "instrumental in bringing folks together" to pass the $700 billion bailout. After that, she said "it is a time of crisis and government did have to step in."

___

PALIN: Says Ronald Reagan faced an even worse recession than the one that appears to be ending now, and "showed us how to get out of one. If you want real job growth, cut capital gains taxes and slay the death tax once and for all."

THE FACTS: The estate tax, which some call the death tax, was not repealed under Reagan and capital gains taxes are lower now than when Reagan was president.

Economists overwhelmingly say the current recession is far worse. The recession Reagan faced lasted for 16 months; this one is in its 23rd month. The recession of the early 1980s did not have a financial meltdown. Unemployment peaked at 10.8 percent, worse than the October 2009 high of 10.2 percent, but the jobless rate is still expected to climb.

___

PALIN: She says her team overseeing the development of a natural gas pipeline set up an open, competitive bidding process that allowed any company to compete for the right to build a 1,715-mile pipeline to bring natural gas from Alaska to the Lower 48.

THE FACTS: Palin characterized the pipeline deal the same way before an AP investigation found her team crafted terms that favored only a few independent pipeline companies and ultimately benefited a company with ties to her administration, TransCanada Corp. Despite promises and legal guidance not to talk directly with potential bidders during the process, Palin had meetings or phone calls with nearly every major candidate, including TransCanada.

___

PALIN: Criticizes an aide to her predecessor, Gov. Frank Murkowski, for a conflict of interest because the aide represented the state in negotiations over a gas pipeline and then left to work as a handsomely paid lobbyist for ExxonMobil. Palin asserts her administration ended all such arrangements, shoving a wedge in the revolving door between special interests and the state capital.

THE FACTS: Palin ignores her own "revolving door" issue in office; the leader of her own pipeline team was a former lobbyist for a subsidiary of TransCanada, the company that ended up winning the rights to build the pipeline.

___

PALIN: Writes about a city councilman in Wasilla, Alaska, who owned a garbage truck company and tried to push through an ordinance requiring residents of new subdivisions to pay for trash removal instead of taking it to the dump for free — this to illustrate conflicts of interest she stood against as a public servant.

THE FACTS: As Wasilla mayor, Palin pressed for a special zoning exception so she could sell her family's $327,000 house, then did not keep a promise to remove a potential fire hazard on the property.

She asked the city council to loosen rules for snow machine races when she and her husband owned a snow machine store, and cast a tie-breaking vote to exempt taxes on aircraft when her father-in-law owned one. But she stepped away from the table in 1997 when the council considered a grant for the Iron Dog snow machine race in which her husband competes.

___

PALIN: Says Obama has admitted that the climate change policy he seeks will cause people's electricity bills to "skyrocket."

THE FACTS: She correctly quotes a comment attributed to Obama in January 2008, when he told San Francisco Chronicle editors that under his cap-and-trade climate proposal, "electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket" as utilities are forced to retrofit coal burning power plants to reduce carbon dioxide emissions.

Obama has argued since then that climate legislation can blunt the cost to consumers. Democratic legislation now before Congress calls for a variety of measures aimed at mitigating consumer costs. Several studies predict average household costs probably would be $100 to $145 a year.

___

PALIN: Welcomes last year's Supreme Court decision deciding punitive damages for victims of the nation's largest oil spill tragedy, the Exxon Valdez disaster, stating it had taken 20 years to achieve victory. As governor, she says, she'd had the state argue in favor of the victims, and she says the court's ruling went "in favor of the people." Finally, she writes, Alaskans could recover some of their losses.

THE FACTS: That response is at odds with her reaction at the time to the ruling, which resolved the long-running case by reducing punitive damages for victims to $500 million from $2.5 billion. Environmentalists and plaintiffs' lawyers decried the ruling as a slap at the victims and Palin herself said she was "extremely disappointed." She said the justices had gutted a jury decision favoring higher damage awards, the Anchorage Daily News reported. "It's tragic that so many Alaska fishermen and their families have had their lives put on hold waiting for this decision," she said, noting many had died "while waiting for justice."

___

PALIN: Describing her resistance to federal stimulus money, Palin describes Alaska as a practical, libertarian haven of independent Americans who don't want "help" from government busybodies.

THE FACTS: Alaska is also one of the states most dependent on federal subsidies, receiving much more assistance from Washington than it pays in federal taxes. A study for the nonpartisan Tax Foundation found that in 2005, the state received $1.84 for every dollar it sent to Washington.

___

PALIN: Says she tried to talk about national security and energy independence in her interview with Vogue magazine but the interviewer wanted her to pivot from hydropower to high fashion.

THE FACTS are somewhat in dispute. Vogue contributing editor Rebecca Johnson said Palin did not go on about hydropower. "She just kept talking about drilling for oil."

___

PALIN: "Was it ambition? I didn't think so. Ambition drives; purpose beckons." Throughout the book, Palin cites altruistic reasons for running for office, and for leaving early as Alaska governor.

THE FACTS: Few politicians own up to wanting high office for the power and prestige of it, and in this respect, Palin fits the conventional mold. But "Going Rogue" has all the characteristics of a pre-campaign manifesto, the requisite autobiography of the future candidate.

___

Doorgunner| 11.14.09 @ 11:58AM

meh

Doorgunner| 11.14.09 @ 12:04PM

Oh, and your Alaska/Tax assertion is a lie, if only a cut-n-paste, borrowed one. The reason for the seeming inequity is because of Federal recognition of the corporate tax revenue from natural resource extraction -read "oil".

Jackass.

Bydand76| 11.14.09 @ 12:34PM

AGAIN with the Sarah Palin stuff!

Man, you liberals are obsessed!

American "Gay" Spectator| 11.14.09 @ 10:53AM

PORTLAND, Oregon (Reuters) – The United States' first marijuana cafe opened on Friday, posing an early test of the Obama administration's move to relax policing of medical use of the drug.

The Cannabis Cafe in Portland, Oregon, is the first to give certified medical marijuana users a place to get hold of the drug and smoke it -- as long as they are out of public view -- despite a federal ban.

Take that you conservative losers.

Doorgunner| 11.14.09 @ 11:58AM

meh

victor| 11.14.09 @ 12:26PM

Losers?
Slackers are not losers?
Potheads are not losers?
Smoke yourself into oblivion>
See if we care!

Bydand76| 11.14.09 @ 12:32PM

So if you are a Conservative and require medicinal marijuana than you would not be allowed int this place? Is that what I am supposed to take from this silly post?

Sounds like discrimination to me to be honest with you.

Whot does political ieology have anything to do with this at all?

I know a lot of conservative leaning people who are pro legalization.

What gives?

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 12:47PM

Do what you got to do.

Mr.Reality| 11.14.09 @ 12:33PM

An Army of journalist and lawyers paraded to Alaska to get any bit of dirt they could on Palin. They uncovered diddly squat. If only Obama received such scrutiny. We will jam the gears of the evil democrat machine in 2010 and in 2012 throw this string bean from Chicago out on his rear end. It will not end their a total revamp of this nation will occur. The democrat special interest, be it the rotten lawyers, this idiotic national media , academia and on and on your day of reckoning is coming. And nobody is gonna throw you in jail or hang you-we are just gonna shut down your money machine we involuntarily pay for be it through taxes, advertising dollars, cable bills, law suit scams. Did anyone read in the Wall Street Journal that smoking is rising in the USA ? Did you read were just 3 per cent went to smoking cessation. I've been saying for years for the GOP to go after this outrage-but I guess they were bought off as well. That money helped build the machinery that is the left wing democrat machine today. Remember blubbering Bill Clinton crying how badly addicted smokers needed the help the money from the settlement would bring them ? Just another lying act by a sickening pol. 3 per cent of 100s of billions. That is your democrat party in action-the compassionate party dontcha know.

Mr.Reality| 11.14.09 @ 12:35PM

3 per cent of tobacco settlement and lawsuit money

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 12:44PM

I'm not saying she is corrupt but just saying she isn't the brightest bulb in the box. She's a 12 watt non cfl. Not to smart. For gods sake she let her child hook up with that tool Levi "playgirl" Johnston. What a horrible father.

Nick| 11.14.09 @ 1:10PM

Sarah Palin is hated mostly for one simple fact: She did not kill Trig when she and Scott found out he had Down's.

Trig is a living, breathing reminder to all liberals who have either killed their own unborn babies because of some abnormality, or know someone who did.

When liberals found out about Trig, they became deranged, a la Andrew Sullivan. Although, he was insane long before Mrs. Palin came along.

Actions speak louder than words. There is no doubt as to whether or not Sarah Palin is truly Pro-Life. She must be destroyed, in the liberal mind, no matter what the cost.

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 1:24PM

Your tripping. You and your boy boydand 76 where hoping she would abort him so the taxpayers of Alaska wouldn't have to pay for them to fly around the country. Mcain would have had a better chance of winning if he chose Trig as his running mate. He would have aced the Couric interviews.

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 1:30PM

You know your not very smart when a toddler with down syndrome is more articulate than you are.

Nick| 11.14.09 @ 1:34PM

I give you Exhibit #1,325,567 of Palin Derangement Syndrome.

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 1:37PM

Crafty! Way to bow out.

Nick| 11.14.09 @ 1:44PM

I don't cast my pearls before swine, so to speak.

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 1:33PM

I'm happy that Bristol decided to raise her child and not give it up for adoption. Maybe her family will see how difficult it is to raise a child seeing they weren't around to raise their own.

Nick| 11.14.09 @ 1:40PM

Who knows how many abortions Katie, Leslie, Jane, Diane, and Bawbwa have had over the decades?

Osamas Pajamas| 11.14.09 @ 1:18PM

My mom decades ago said that our ancestors on her side of the family were Tories who supported King George at the time of the First American Revolution, had their mercantile warehouses plundered and burned, and were chased all the way to Maine, whence they jumped off for Nova Scotia, their ancestors marrying Brits and Frenchies befoe sneaking back into the States, 150 years later. A few stragglers crept into Marblehead in the dead of the night and kept a very low profile for decades and decades.

Time for another Tea Party, folks! The Yankee colonials DID make a mistake in the Boston Tea Party. They threw the tea into the harbor and left the Brit and Tory politicians and other officials dry on that day ---- when they should have kept the tea and pitched the Brits and Tories into the drink, followed by a bunch of pianos, anvils, and fieldstone granite blocks. Is there a lesson here for our contemporary tea-partyers and privately-employed taxpayers? Yes, there is, but I won't say it here....

Now hear this, about The Rights of Man. The perfectly-natural and universally-valid human rights are LIFE, LIBERTY, PRIVATE PROPERTY, and THE PURSUIT OF PERSONAL HAPPINESS.

The first article of private property is "the self" and all human rights are derivatives of and flow from the foregoing cardinal rights. These rights belong to all human beings, everywhere.

Now listern up, lads-n-lasses ---- go kick over the bloody coffee tables ---- be glad warriors ---- and be heard around the world.

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 1:26PM

are you even able to wipe yourself?

Doorgunner| 11.14.09 @ 1:39PM

What's up with you Lefty fags obsession with Palin?

Doorgunner| 11.14.09 @ 1:41PM

Is it that she can accessorize so much better on a Wal-Mart budget than you can on a... Wal-Mart budget?

Doorgunner| 11.14.09 @ 1:44PM

How can you tell when "defeated pigs" is employing the ol' 'cut-n-paste'?

The post contains correct spelling, punctuation and grammar.

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 1:43PM

It's because she looks like Andy Dick with a wig on.

Doorgunner| 11.14.09 @ 1:45PM

What, the poster on your bedroom wall?

Doorgunner| 11.14.09 @ 1:49PM

What was that? I can't hear you.

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 1:48PM

Yes my picture of Sarah Palin on my bedroom wall? right next to Mccain tied to a wall and being beat with a stick. You know how us libs like s and m.

Doorgunner| 11.14.09 @ 1:52PM

There's no chance of a woman's picture on your wall other than "Mother's", Norman.

And if you'd actually been paying attention up til now, you'd know we don't care about McCain, loser.

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 1:52PM

Pick up the walker, talk your ass to the bedroom where you left your glasses and hear me old man.

Doorgunner| 11.14.09 @ 1:54PM

And yet, I pass the flight physical every year. You know, the one you'd be paying for if you paid any taxes.

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 1:54PM

I would bail on him too. What a let down. Time heals all wounds though. Once the health care bill passes I can give you the number to the suicide hotline.

Doorgunner| 11.14.09 @ 1:57PM

1. Is that the Health Care bill described recently as "dead on arrival in the Senate"?

2. Thanks you for the health care I already have for life- that is if you paid taxes.

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 1:55PM

flight physical is easier than the dmv.

Doorgunner| 11.14.09 @ 1:58PM

How would you know; you never even attempted either, have you?

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 1:57PM

Isn't it almost time for your meals on wheels?

Doorgunner| 11.14.09 @ 1:59PM

Nice try, sonny.

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 2:00PM

Walter Reid is doing great? your pretty much D.O.A with the V.A.

Doorgunner| 11.14.09 @ 2:10PM

Well, that didn't take long.

The Left shows it's true colors. First, it's "Reed". dumbass. Second, we really do appreciate when you don't attempt to conceal your contempt for the Armed Forces. Sort of like how the Commander in Chief is willing to allow Afghanistan to remain under-manned while he bows before kings and emperors. One of whom, incidentally, is more involved with 9/11 than is publicly discussed, but the President has certainly received the brief on.

Any way, I appreciate your lack of concern, citizen. Because the country has, since the Johnson administration, known what your kind of help is worth.

Doorgunner| 11.14.09 @ 2:13PM

And I'm not VA-ready just yet; I'll be back overseas in a few months.

Because campaign promises really aren't meant to be taken seriously.

Doorgunner| 11.14.09 @ 2:33PM

Hm. My old ears hear those crickets just fine.

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 6:13PM

Those are your crickety ass old knees.

Nick| 11.14.09 @ 2:15PM

It was the August townhalls, the million Tea Partiers who showed up on 9/12, and the 80,000 that Mrs. Bachman rallied to the Capitol over a week ago that gave San Fran Nan a 3 vote margin to pass ObamaCare. 3 VOTES!! Ha-ha!

ObamaCare is dead.
Buh-bye ObamaCare, buh-bye.

Nah-nah-nah-nah!
Nah-nah-nah-nah!
Hey-hey-hey!
Good-bye!

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 6:14PM

Eddie, What have you done for me lately?

martin j smith| 11.14.09 @ 3:17PM

Watch out for provocateurs. They have no interest in real debate. The goals is to cause disruption and rage. And most important, whatever value your points may have will never be accepted--So my advice for whatever it is worth is this: once you notice a poster playing ping pong with you --stop responding !!!!

Nick| 11.14.09 @ 6:45PM

Marxist Reader/Fouled-Mouth Mr. Hyde,

Suuuurrrrre you were in the Army.
I believe you, I really do.

STRATEGY!!!!! Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!

Who told you that you were wrong? Come on you can tell me.
What is an 11-H, Rambo?

Liberal Reader| 11.14.09 @ 6:48PM

Nick,

You're an obnoxious jerk. You have no idea to whom you are speaking. I made a TYPO. Who told me I was wrong? You're a fool. I was a t.o.w. gunner. Now really, fuck off. I don't have anything more to say to you. You write posts like a teenager, and I'm sorry I ever wasted time on this exchange.

Nick| 11.14.09 @ 7:26PM

Fouled-Mouth Mr. Hyde/Marxist Reader,

I thought you were never going to tell me? You didn't owe me an explanation, remember? I see your word isn't worth squat! Your so easy.

I know it's been hard defending President Dither lately, but that's no reason to lose it on a public blog, is it?

You used to be somewhat reasonable, losing these arguments seems to have changed you. Please start taking your lithium again, stat!

What's a " third of the three o deuce"? Is it anything like 3/302? What division? What does T.O.W. stand for?

Liberal Reader| 11.14.09 @ 11:52PM

Nick --

The only reason I responded at all was to PROVE that you weren't asking in good faith. For each answer, you'll either offer another question or simply claim I'm lying. There's no information I could give that can't be easily gained from a simple google search, so there's no use.

You are simply not asking in good faith. In addition, you seem not to understand that on an anonymous site nothing is verifiable. Without some semblance of good faith you're wasting your own time and mine. Why bother to ask?

Anyone who was in my unit would have said it just the way I did. But it doesn't matter, and I'm not going to give the division or answer anymore questions. Frankly, I'm tired of you. You're not a person of honor; you don't trust, which means you're not trustworthy.

I think you'd find "President Dither" is making some friends in the Pentagon among brass who are not politicians; they're pretty concerned that sinking 20, 30, or 40 thousand troops into this sick quagmire in Afghanistan is a BAD idea unless there is a much better plan in place than Bush ever had. President Dither is behaving in a thoughtful way, and I'm grateful for it. I prefer President Dither to President Vader and his hand puppet any day. And once again, and for the last time, fuck off.

Bydand76| 11.14.09 @ 8:52PM

Wow! Thats the pot calling the kettle black!

an obnoxious jerk?

I think you and Deaf Pig need to go bowling together or something Lib Reader.

Better yet! Why dont you two go suck on a tailpipe somwhere and save the world from climate change.

Put your money where your mouth is!

Oh and for your information it is NOT " t.o.w." you loser!

Its TOW. In the army all acronyms are capitalized.
I bet you don't even know what TOW stands for either.

What were you? What was your MOS? Where were you stationed?
Germany, Korea, Bosnia, stateside?
Heavy Mech Infantry?
Cav Scout?
Bradleys?
or were you a pogue POS REMF?

I bet if you were in the Army you were nothing more than a high speed joker hell bent on getting back on the block so you could cozy up to the ladies and tell them what a great war hero you were right?

Nothing more than a Jody! The lowest of the low!

Take your Deaf Pig for a walk off a cliff already!

And my offer still stands! Scumbag!
Anytime.

Liberal Reader| 11.14.09 @ 11:56PM

Fuck you, Bydand. You're an idiot, and even more boring than the others. I've never seen you write anything remotely interesting. I know goddamn acronyms in the military are capitalized. I haven't been in the military in over 12 years and frankly I couldn't give a flying shit. I dotted instead of capitalized. So sue me, prick.

Doorgunner| 11.15.09 @ 10:09AM

Sue for what? It's pretty clear at this point you haven't anything that anyone wants.

John II| 11.15.09 @ 11:56AM

Confucius say, "Demotic expression indicate reversal of old wisdom: time wound all heels."

Bydand76| 11.15.09 @ 12:58PM

Right back at ya Lib Reader,

Its funny, for awhile there I felt bad for you because I thought that you were just a bit misguided.

but then whenever someone demands proof from your little tirades and shrill invectives you respond with coarse and vulgar profanities.

History and logic are lost on you.

You are nothing more than a Grima Wormtongue.

I notice that everytime someone confronts you with actual fact and more than just unverifiable opinion you respond with wild accusations and attack the persons intelligence.

Like I said before scumbag. Take your little deaf pig for a walk off a cliff and die you loser! I could care less about what you think!

You are NOTHING!

Bydand76| 11.14.09 @ 8:58PM

Doorgunner,

If I was going to change my MOS and reclass and I wanted to get into aviation from the infantry and become a doorgunner what would you recommend me doing?

I love flying and have tons of experiance jumping out of blackhawks and chinooks but I think I am ready to move on in my career.

Any suggestions?

Respectfully,
Bydand76
Pro Libertate!

Doorgunner| 11.14.09 @ 11:25PM

We look for a high GT; if you're over 110, maybe a little higher you should have that covered. You're going to need to ride out your current contract and you may need to talk to an external recruiter. However, if you're at Campbell, you could just go over to the other side of the runway and talk to a Task Force 1SG- be prepared to run a PT test in your ACU's right then and there. If not Task Force, you could contact a 101st 1SG -Go Kingsmen- but know this, you'll have a lot of good company, Aviation is full of 11B's that came to their senses.

15T20N

Bydand76| 11.15.09 @ 1:04PM

Right On Doorgunner!

I am covered on all bases
GT 115
APFT 297
and I ETS in about 6months and I really want to reclass

Thanks Doorgunner I appreciate it!

Liberal Reader| 11.14.09 @ 11:58PM

You probably would've needed an asvab -- excuse me, ASVAB -- over 35, hero.

Doorgunner| 11.15.09 @ 10:06AM

The Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery overall score is by percentile; mine was 99. GT, general technical, is a subscore -one part of the battery. Aviation, for enlisted and the three digit MOS's, place high emphasis on that sub-score.

When you talk about what you know, you do alright. Making stuff up is making you look pretty foolish.

Doorgunner| 11.15.09 @ 10:27AM

...further elucidation, lil' Libby,

I'm a 15T SGT, with a N ASI (that's what makes me "15T20N") that answers to his 1SG and Co. Commander, a CPT. However in the majority of my duties, I work with/for an AMO who is a CW4, 153T.

That clear things up for you, Corky?

defeated pigs| 11.15.09 @ 10:59AM

Do us all a favor and get a chute that doesn't open.

Nick| 11.14.09 @ 11:07PM

Bydand76,

Good one....hey...wait a minute.
Pot calling kettle black?
Are you saying I'm an obnoxious jerk?
Ha-ha!

Here's Marxist Reader's response from earlier today when I asked him if he knew what MOS stood for:

"Liberal Reader| 11.14.09 @ 3:25PM
Military occupational strategy; I was 11 hotel, third of the three o deuce [...]"

He tried to correct it a minute later, and now claims it was a typo!

Bydand76| 11.15.09 @ 12:46PM

Nick,

No I wasn't implying that you were an obnoxious anything.

I was just pointing out another instance of the mindless boobie known as Lib Reader of being a hypocrite.

Thats all.

Yeah I am unsure of what a military occupational strategy is and yes a 11H series is a TOW gunner but it would have to in an Infantry slot being that its in the 11 series. Meaning that the primary MOS is an 11B series and which received special traning or reclassed. Or it could be a Cav. Scout (SCOUTS OUT!) series. To be honest I have never heard of an 11 Hotel series which is not to say that they have never existed. I am just saying I have never met one.

My BN sends everyone to gunnery at Dona Anna @ FT Bliss where we qualify on the TOW, Ma Duece, Bradleys and MRAPS weapon systems.
11 Bravos have become a do it all MOS.

11B - Light and Heavy Infantry
11C Mortars
11H TOW/DRAGON Armor/ Cavalry

As far as the 3-302 I have never heard of this specific unit but that is not to say it doesnt or hasnt existed in the past.

Often with a change of designation a unit will change its nomenclature so it is possible that they switched from being an Infantry Compant to oh lets say a Quatermaster unit? Who Knows?

This happens all the time in the Army too.

If a smaller unit like the 3-302 existed it would be part of a division as this is a battalion sized element being referenced here.

So it would be, for example 3-302 IN BN (which is part of ) 6th IBCT (Infantry Brigade Combat Team) which is under the control of
3rd ID (Division) who is under the 1st Army which is then tasked out to a Corp or Task Force
3-302 IN, 6th IBCT, 3rd ID, 1st Army, Task Force 134

Hope this helps

Pro Libertate

Nick| 11.15.09 @ 1:14PM

Bydand76,

I know what you meant. I was just making a joke!

Bydand76| 11.15.09 @ 1:59PM

Thats cool. I wasnt trying to offend you or anything.

Do you fing it strange that LR cannot seem to answer the question though.

I would be interested in learning more about this unit LR belonged to and where it came from but I have a feeling I am going to be disappointed.

Bydand76| 11.15.09 @ 2:02PM

FIND it strange. I meant "find it strange".

Lord have mercy!

14 hour work days suck!

Nick| 11.15.09 @ 4:24PM

Bydand76,

Actually, I find it strange he thought he could just google it and get away with it.

I know liberals aren't that bright, e.g. 3/5 Bob, but I thought LR knew better than to try that.

Richard Baker| 11.15.09 @ 12:05AM

Bydand76:
"Military occupational strategy; I was 11 hotel, third of the three o deuce " from LR. What the Hell is this? I've been out since 1980 but I don't think the lingo has changed quite that much. Please advise, my Infantry brother.

Bydand76| 11.15.09 @ 1:13PM

Mr. Baker,

I responded to Nicks post above with an answer to your question as well.

I hope this helps Sir!

"Follow Me!"

Infantry Leads The Way

Liberal Reader| 11.15.09 @ 12:23AM

Listen: I see you all are having a real meeting of the minds. But if I could just interrupt to ask one question: do you guys know you're idiots?

I mean, do you walk around thinking, "I'm an idiot, but maybe I can hide it if I'm verbally aggressive, or if I try to align myself with people I don't think are idiots, or just act hostile to people who clearly are not idiots"?

Or, do you just not know? You could try to answer these questions, but I'm not sure I could believe anything you say, since you might be trying to trick me into believing you're not idiots. That's impossible, since you clearly ARE idiots -- so maybe I could believe you. I can't know until you try.

Doorgunner| 11.15.09 @ 10:12AM

You sound hostile. Intellectually, I can see that your feeling inferior and behaving defensively.

Emotionally... well, I'm laughing.

Richard Baker| 11.15.09 @ 12:49AM

LR:
Does all this OFFEND you? Good. We're all having a hoot over your hot flashes. Keep it up, boy. We enjoy watching you burn. You are definitely cheap entertainment.

Lullaby's, Legends and Lies| 11.15.09 @ 4:11AM

Liberal Reader's a "Guy"? Really? I always thought she was a crazy lying liberal hippie chick!!
My bad LR!! MOS is 11H huh?-another lie!!

Pingback| 11.15.09 @ 5:22AM

The American Spectator : Tea Party Nation Tea links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…answered the Tea Party movement’s call to direct involvement in politics. Their activism has ignited the spark that now threatens to incinerate the agenda of Hope and … More: The American Spectator : Tea Party Nation By admin | category: tea party | tags: agenda, direct-involvement, ignited-the-spark, incinerate-the-agenda, nine-months, now-threatens, over-the-past, party, past, spark, tea party, the-past…

martin j smith| 11.15.09 @ 7:40AM

So we come to the brilliant conclusion the LR does not agree with the reader base-wow--that is truly amazing. Now we are getting a lot of flatulence which surely could be used for our national energy policy. These interchanges surely show my point about provocations and the nature of "discourse" that results. Stop engaging with this guy. LR is nopt the only one. There othjer provocateurs sprinkled about and once you the symptoms --it is surely each p[ersons decision--but what value other than catharsis are you getting. Perhaps if once identified as who they are LR and his ilk will either talk in sensible terms or go off bored or whatever. But then again it would be boring wouldn't it ?

Doorgunner| 11.15.09 @ 10:31AM

I think there's been some value in proving him to be a liar. But, you're right; it's fun, but pointless.

And the"...flatulence... energy policy" line is hilarious. I salute you, Sir.

martin j smith| 11.15.09 @ 10:47AM

Bravo!!Doorgunner. I sincerely hope more people understand that responding to provocateurs feeeds into their agenda which is to get you angry and enraged. Yes that is right. Once you see a provocateur move on because any points you make once you made your point will be ignored and your energy wasted. However there is one thing to do that is quite valuable: point out the provocateur for all to see . That is valuable.

defeated pigs| 11.15.09 @ 11:01AM

The only point this knucklehead is making is that gays are definitely in the military. Stay in the closet doorgunner, the new policy isn't official yet.

defeated pigs| 11.15.09 @ 11:09AM

Stay in the closet, let the butch lesbians come out first and then test the water. IF they receive no backlash then you should be fine dogrunner.

Doorgunner| 11.15.09 @ 2:41PM

Is that supposed to be your big insult... as a the front line warrior of the party of "tolerance".

Jeebus, kid, I don't know which is more pathetic; your willingness to throw away any semblance of dignity and professed ideals to toss a weak-ass, anonymous, name-calling insult or your utterly juvenile presumption that I fit some mental image stereotype you have wherein I would be foaming-at-the-mouth enraged at being called a fag.

God, you're a pussy.

Ken(Old Texican)| 11.15.09 @ 11:00AM

Hi guys

If we constitutionalists here are so stupid, ignorant, bitter, and a tiny fringe group...

My question is why does Mr. Soros pay these twerps to come here and shoot three-point turd shots into our punch-bowl?

I can think of only one reason: They recognize us as the real life stuff of their worst nightmares.
Tea Party Patriots.
TEAM America
Rush
Sarah
...Am spec and American Thinker
Heritage foundation
military veterans
...the truth

Folks, we terrify them as well we should. We are busy turning this country around, and as we do, Mr. Soros will only be the first one of them to go to jail.
See you guys Monday.

defeated pigs| 11.15.09 @ 11:04AM

The tea party and the minute men of today are nothing like they were in the past. They fought for freedom against the British. The tea party today is a response to getting royally defeated by a black man and the minute men are racist pigs who pretend to "protect" the border. No one is scared of these two joke organizations defaming great hero's of our nation.

Doorgunner| 11.15.09 @ 4:52PM

-heroes-

Geez, what a maroon!

JimE| 11.15.09 @ 5:56PM

You babble like a mildly retarded twelve year old.
Are you afraid that those mean old racist tea-baggers will force you to get a job and take responsibilty for you actions?

defeated pigs| 11.15.09 @ 11:07AM

The tea party of today should be called Diary of a bunch of angry old white guys and the minutemen of today should be called the return of the rednecks of yeeeehaaaawwwwwww!

Bydand76| 11.15.09 @ 1:20PM

well maybe you should study your history then Douche Pig,

Angry White Men as you put it have done more to change the face of this planet than any other demographic.

But please continue to revel in your mud filled ignorance. Root away Pig. Root away.

I find you to be a joke.

Nick| 11.15.09 @ 11:22AM

Marxist Reader/Fouled-Mouth Jerk,

"There's no information I could give that can't be easily gained from a simple google search, so there's no use."

So, that's how you screwed up what MOS stands for? You copy-n-pasted the wrong google search, huh Rambo?

Yes, there is information you could give that you can't get from google. Name a post you were stationed to, and then describe a place there that anyone, who was also stationed there, would know.

If, by chance, you really were in the Army, you probably got out during Basic by claiming you were a homo.

Like I've told you before, you persuade no one here. I, along with others, have made you a joke and a laughing stock. And that is a good thing.

Richard Baker| 11.15.09 @ 11:25AM

defeated pigs:
As I wrote to Liberal Reader, ya'lls messages are a hoot. My,my. Such anger. Keep it up, bozo. You display your silliness everytime you post. Cheap entertainment is where you find it. Bravo!

Nick| 11.15.09 @ 12:46PM

Mr. Baker,

Are you the same "Richard" I asked about Archbishop Chaput and Canon 915? a couple of weeks ago?

martin j smith| 11.15.09 @ 12:38PM

DP another provocateur.

Big J| 11.15.09 @ 2:40PM

I have been reading the comments on this article. While there were several that were very thought provoking and constructive, they have been overshadowed by the completely ignorant, irrelevant, vile spewing, hate filled comments by the Idiots of the Day, Liberal Reader and Defeated Pigs.

Seriously, you both are about as disgusting as a liberal can get (and that's pretty disgusting).

You know, I can scroll down and ignore your ridiculous rants. I can accept that you obviously have nothing better to do than hijack an otherwise intelligent conversation on the news of the day. It's difficult, but I acknowledge the fact that there really ARE people like you out there that completely hate this country, yet reap all the rewards that being an American citizen allows.

What I CANNOT accept however, is an insult aimed at our fine men and women that serve of there own free will, risking their lives daily for me (and you, by the way), even though they don't know me personally. These are MY brothers and sisters you are insulting, and I doubt very seriously you would even be standing were you to man up and do something like that in person.

Liberal [explicative] Reader: IF you served in the military in any fashion, you should know better. I have an uncle that is so bitter, we can't even talk. He has morphed into some completely irrational, non-thinking, global warming, Bush hating freak. Don't go down that path - it doesn't end well. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. Show some respect for goodness sake.

Defeated Pigs, whomever and wherever you are, grow up. I doubt very seriously that the ignorance you put on full display here is serving you any better off-line than it is on-line. Here's 50 cents - go buy a clue, skillet head.

You nuts ought to take a moment to thank Doorgunner, Nick and Bydand76 and others here. As a direct result of their daily sacrifice, you are free to sit at your keyboards and haphazardly type your adolescent insults without fear of retribution.

Nick| 11.15.09 @ 4:10PM

Big J,

Thanks, so much. I appreciate your comments a lot.

martin j smith| 11.15.09 @ 5:07PM

Sad to say but you are talking to a wall. Such is the reality of the LR provocateur. He got you going. Understable as your feelings are. LR is like a robot. He reguritates the Party Line and thats it. So engage with him at your own risk. You might feel better having ventilated your feelings but believe me to LR you are nothing.

Big J| 11.15.09 @ 5:53PM

Martin, I know the "wall" theory very well - especially concerning the mind-numbed Soros-style robot Liberal Reader. I've been posting indisputable facts against his leftist talking points since he reared his ugly head approximately 3 months ago. Generally, I don't engage this fool, but.....

We all have our limits. If someone finds it appropriate to insult those that fight for my freedom, I cannot help myself. I have to call them out.

While I know it falls on deaf ears (notice LR didn't have a response to my comment), it is all of our responsibility to defend those that defend us.

Richard Baker| 11.15.09 @ 3:25PM

Nick:
No, don't think so. There are a number of Richard somethings who post on american Spectator.

Nick| 11.15.09 @ 4:05PM

Mr. Baker,

I didn't think it was you. But I thought I would check to be sure. Thanks for replying.

Richard Baker| 11.15.09 @ 3:27PM

Big J:
Attaboy, sir.

Liberal Reader| 11.15.09 @ 4:13PM

Tea partiers have proved themselves, over and over again, to be what happens when morons become politically engaged by Glenn Beck.

They're not taken seriously, of course, by Democrats or Republicans, but they do good things for the ratings of Fox News.

It's surely the most pathetic "movement" in modern American history, and the idea that it voices the beliefs of "ordinary Americans" is just nonsense.

Nothing in any respectable polls suggests this is true; in fact, all polls suggest the opposite. While a large number of independents have moved to the right, as is their wont, the country remains pretty firmly in the center: the public option still polls above 50% (depending on how it's worded); people still by and large like Medicare and Social Security; and people are for increases in spending on health care, education, infrastructure, and a national energy policy.

That hardly supports the nebulous, inchoate braying, barking, and honking that clamors from the throats of the tea baggers.

Now, the reality clearly makes some of you bitter, so you resort to low, dishonorable smears.

I know you're disappointed, but if you want to WIN, in America, you have to make good arguments.

That is, thank God, still the way it works. As long as you follow that hysterical, blubbering fool Glenn Beck, you won't hone your arguments, and you'll continue to narrow your own scope and reach.

Doorgunner| 11.15.09 @ 4:23PM

Do you even know what "nebulous" means?

On a related note, your Mom and I split a nice bottle of Nebbiolo in a bubble bath last night.

Doorgunner| 11.15.09 @ 4:28PM

And getting yourself all upset about our "bitter" "low, dishonorable smears" is a bit unseemly since you spend days here attempting to belittle people you don't know... and clearly don't understand.

Doorgunner| 11.15.09 @ 4:39PM

And here's what "what happens when morons become politically engaged by Glenn Beck":

http://video.foxnews.com/10730.....nd-opinion

Gosh, I wish I was there so I could poll their opinion of your genius intellect.

Nick| 11.15.09 @ 4:34PM

Sure, Rambo.
Whatever you say, Mr. Military Occupational STRATEGY!!!
Ha-ha-ha!!

Bydand76| 11.15.09 @ 5:33PM

Rachel Madow could'nt have said it better!

But, you fall victim to your own words again LR.

"you resort to low, dishonorable smears."

preceded by this statement,

"That hardly supports the nebulous, inchoate braying, barking, and honking that clamors from the throats of the tea baggers."

You decry the usage of insults and hyperbole and then turn around and commit the same crime you are so hysterical about.

This is called hypocrisy LR.

I do not listen nor do I watch Glenn Beck. I cannot due to my location. I sit here in a little shack with wood paneled walls and escape through a little portal to the rest of the world simply because I have nothing to do with my free time except to try and escape my confines. So I turn to this format to help me forget where I am for awhile. Glenn Beck is about the furthest thing from my mind and I really have no idea where he stands on certain issues LR.

The TEA parties I have seen ( 1 being in my small hometown in Wi) have all the look of people who are sick of goverment intrusion and the expansion of said Goverment in to an instituition that should otherwise be left alone. Yes, G.W. Bush spent $$ at an alarming rate. Yes, President G.W. Bush was wrong for doing that AND that is PART of the reason why you are seeing the TEA parties. This fact however is lost on you in your blind hatred of anything that carries an opposite view from yours.

I would agree with you that Healthcare can and should be reformed, but the way the current POTUS and his Democrat brethren wish to achieve it is deeply flawed.

You refuse to see this regardless of how many facts and historical references I have thrown at you. You are blind, deaf and unwilling to acknowledge a different and opposite point of view. Not only that but you refuse to accept the possibility of why people might be angry.
You dismiss them as a angry minority and mock their concerns as shrill and haughty. You accuse them of some racial motivation but never see the reality that the TEA parties have a wide ranging racial mke-up. You never take into consideration that maybe, JUST maybe these TEA parties might be representative of something larger. Something that has the potential to transcend the divide in this country and save it from people, who for all appearances want to undermine its basic principles.

Can you seriously tell me that George Soros has the best interests of this country at his heart?

Think man! Try for an original thought for once and sift through all of the BS that the left feeds you! I never once have taken the Republican party to be the end all of political ideology.
Why can Liberals not do the same with the Democrats? You are guilty of every single thing you have ever accused people in this format of LR.

You rail against Glenn Beck but cannot see that your side of the argument does the same thing that Mr. Beck does. Rachel Maddow? Keith Olbermann? Seriously?

But then you take it one step further by saying it is hate speech propogated by the right, and should be eradicated via the goverment restrictions.

How dare you! What nerve! That goes against everything this country stands for. Where did you lose your principles L.R?

I will tell you this L R.

I promise you that I will never deny you your right to disagree with me. I will never deny you your right to speak in whatever fashion your heart may desire. I may disagree with you strongly but I will give my life in defense of that right. I swore an oath to do just that and I will never, EVER, let you down L. R.

This is where our fundamental difference is the most apparent.

I believe that "Goverment" solves nothing. You believe that it has the power to solve everything.

Your statment about the polling data and where the pulse of America is wrong

I will illustrate.

This is from Rasmussen website which is a pretty good polling site and is known for its data integrity and how it aquires it.

http://www.rasmussenreports.co.....cking_poll

another example:
The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 45% now favor the health care plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats. Most (52%) remain opposed.

Only 25% Strongly Support the plan while 42% are Strongly Opposed.

47% Blame Global Warming on Planetary Trends, Not Human Activity

and here is the whole page,

http://www.rasmussenreports.co.....t_articles

some pretty interesting stuff in there for both sides of the argument.

I will ask you once again.

If you want to have a serious debate and maybe learn something instead of slinging mud then I welcome your response.

If not? well then you will just reinforce my accusation of hypocrisy. Like you said:
"you have to make good arguments. "

Pro Libertate!

Doorgunner| 11.15.09 @ 5:40PM

"...small hometown in Wi"

Are you Red Arrow 32nd?

Bydand76| 11.15.09 @ 5:52PM

Roger that!
" Les Terribles"

The Fighting 128th! 32nd INFANTRY!

Doorgunner| 11.15.09 @ 5:55PM

When you get home -as I understand it, not long from now- there's an old SGT/Technician (A Co) at the 1-147th that would like to assist you in going Aviation.

Doorgunner| 11.15.09 @ 5:57PM

We're going early summer and looking for doorgunners -or- we could probably rear detach something.

Bydand76| 11.15.09 @ 6:40PM

I still have about 6 months left on my current contract

But, yeah I am definitely interested!

A Co 1-147th

Do I ask for Doorgunner?

Doorgunner| 11.15.09 @ 7:03PM

Trust me, "old SGT/Technician (A Co) " , will work. Come around before you ETS. Hooah, Bro.

Doorgunner| 11.15.09 @ 7:07PM

You could add "With a ri-donk-ulous vocabulary."
That'll clear up any confusion.

Bydand76| 11.15.09 @ 7:08PM

Roger Sgt!
Hooah!

I will be in touch.

Richard Baker| 11.15.09 @ 4:15PM

LR:
I thought your last post had high comedic value. Keep it up.

John II| 11.15.09 @ 5:09PM

Confucius say, "Logophobe often disguise low instinct with pretense of high intellect, yet sudden outburst of demotic language reveal instinct of same."

Thank you so much.

Doorgunner| 11.15.09 @ 5:45PM

Confucious say, "Man who fart in church must sit own pew, but man who release flatulence in thread inevitably crop dust that funk all through comments."

Doorgunner| 11.15.09 @ 5:51PM

Thanks for letting me take a stab at it.

And I had to look up "demotic". Perfect.

Liberal Reader| 11.15.09 @ 6:29PM

Well then get that dictionary back out and look up "nebulous," soldier. You'll see as usual my usage was perfect.

Nick| 11.15.09 @ 6:44PM

Marxist Reader/Fouled-Mouth Jerk,

Try looking up "poser", "fraud", "fake", "imposter", "charlatan", "impersonator", "deceiver", and "quack."

Nick| 11.15.09 @ 6:46PM

Almost forgot!
Mr. Military Occupational STRATEGY!!!
Ha-haaaaa!!

Nick| 11.15.09 @ 6:50PM

And one more thing.

Where were you stationed again?

Doorgunner| 11.15.09 @ 6:57PM

No, it wasn't. It's about semantics. And construction, e.g. "You'll see as usual my usage was perfect." would read better as 'You'll see that my usage was, as usual, perfect.' I would have opted for 'exemplary' over "perfect", however, as literary aesthetics is as subjective -non-absolute-, if you will, as any other artistic achievement.

Where your use of "nebulous" fails is in its combining with the word "inchoate." Let us look at the sentence:

"That hardly supports the nebulous, inchoate braying, barking, and honking that clamors from the throats of the tea baggers. "

The first problem is that you have verbs, "braying, barking, and honking" that "clamor(s)". They cannot; only a subject or an object can clamor. But, let's be forgiving, "braying, barking, and honking"can constitiute clamoring. But nebulous, ah, that's something else.

I even provided you with a clue, my oh-so-slow-on-game-afoot Watson. The "Nebbiolo" your mother and I notionally consumed? Come now, you youngster Lefty types being so fond of all things Wiki? And me, so fond of Piedmontese wines.

Human affairs when nebulous are clouded or cloaked in mystery, their true nature (meaning) shrouded from discernment. This may be orchestrated intent, or a result of circumstance; it is not random. Hence, the impossibility of a nebulous and inchoate utterance.

(sigh) Again the Liberal mind epitomizes the inchoate.

Big J| 11.15.09 @ 10:02PM

Doorgunner:

Hard.....
to..........
type......

Laughing.....
so...............
hard!

Nice - probably the post of the week.

As usual, great to read your posts. Come back when you can.

And, by the way, did I mention I (and everyone I know) appreciate you guys?

John II| 11.15.09 @ 6:42PM

Confucius also say, "Imitation highest form of praise."

Thank you so much.

(P.S. Actually, Aristotle said it--but Confucius MIGHT have said it, considering what he DID say in the Analects. And now back to my intense study of old Charlie Chan movies. It's going to be a long time before I get off THIS kick, Doorgunner. Meanwhile, enjoy.)

John II| 11.15.09 @ 7:14PM

Damn. These postings are starting to trip over each other. Anyhow . . .

Confucius also say, "Nebulous inchoation certain sign of logophobic liberal style."

Thank you so much.

Doorgunner| 11.15.09 @ 7:18PM

Sydney Toler, Good Night, wherever you are.

Your "Number One Sons" do not forget.

Doorgunner| 11.15.09 @ 7:47PM

I emend: Sidney Toler.

Victor| 11.15.09 @ 10:00PM

Not so fast, Number Two John,
How then flatter crab when imitation crab meat in market made from inferior fish?

PS If you really want good detective story, watch
Mr. Moto think fast.
Oops. You missed him. Try again.

John II| 11.15.09 @ 10:16PM

Thank you so much. However, Number Two John 's complete collection of Mr. Moto on vacation for more than year now. Will return to same when finished with honorable mysteries of Charlie Chan.

Confucius meanwhile say, "Gist of thinker often pay greater honor to same than exact quote. Also give opportunity to raise hackles of liberal logophobe."

Again, thank you so much.

Nick| 11.15.09 @ 11:14PM

Anyone who reads any of my posts knows English was my worst subject, but can I give it a try anyway?

Confucius say, "Liberal logophobe's reasoning and intellect are nebulous."

John II| 11.16.09 @ 12:29AM

Slight correction, please. Chinese verb system different from that of English. No tense. No verb "be." When Charlie Chan speak in movie, screenwriter give Chinese accent to English of Warner Oland and, later, Sidney Toler, though neither actor Chinese.

Herein cinematic irony: Keye Luke (Number One Son) and Victor Sen Yung (Number Two Son) both Chinese-American educated in honorable American university before day of political correctness come: speak in rapid-clip 1930s style undergraduate American English as comic relief, while honorable parent scratch head over strange language of American youth sons. In pattern of Chinese syntax, honorable parent often leave out any form of verb "be" when same quote Confucius.

Thus: Confucius say, "Reasoning and intellect of liberal logophobe nebulous."

Please accept correction from humble observer of large DVD collection. Thank you so much.

Nick| 11.16.09 @ 12:44AM

John II,

Darn! I knew I would get it wrong!

I even looked up "reasoning" to make sure it was a noun!

I guess I'd better crack open that grammer book and start learnin' somethin', eh?

Bydand76| 11.15.09 @ 6:45PM

I think the most pathetic movement in America right now are those wing-nuts who show up to soldiers funerals with nasty signs that say really vicious stuff about the soldier who gave the ultimate sacrifice.

But thats just me.

John II| 11.15.09 @ 6:59PM

Confucius also say, "Logophobe's hatred for defender of homeland reveal contempt for self."

J Birch| 11.15.09 @ 7:30PM

Obama could care less about TEA parties. He has already planned to seize power. It's what communists do.

Richard Baker| 11.15.09 @ 8:22PM

Doorgunner:
He probably thinks that Inchoate is a boys school in Connecticut.

Bydand76| 11.15.09 @ 10:08PM

Hey Deaf Pig, Lib Reader?

Check this out
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j| 1.22.10 @ 2:06PM

not far right enough. What can be done to dismantle government

Cynthia Congers| 2.22.10 @ 10:53AM

I am new to this Tea Party concept - what have "the tyrants" in Washington done? I don't understand why there are people who feel like their civil rights are being tread upon... I am not posting this to degrade your cause, but just to ask for honest clarification. Thanks.

Terry Evans| 4.1.10 @ 11:01AM

Cynthia

Exactly! The tea party people would not be doing all this now if McCain (a white male) was in the White House today. They occasionally ding McCain, but it is Obama that bothers them. We had 8 long years of Bush - - - if the GOP has so many great ideas, why didn't they do it then? Please read "A People's History of the United States" by Howard Zinn. A great book that will shine new light on your view of this country. Tea baggers like to make up their own history. America has it's flaws, but it is too great a country to be run into the ground by the wingnuts!

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Letter to the Editor View all comments (423) | Leave a comment Leave a comment

Appleby| 11.13.09 @ 6:34AM

Barbara Espinosa | 11.13.09 @ 7:13AM

Doorgunner| 11.13.09 @ 7:42AM

Finrod| 11.13.09 @ 11:22AM

ds80| 11.13.09 @ 12:52PM

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 11:47AM

Terry Evans| 3.31.10 @ 12:31AM

martin j smith| 11.13.09 @ 7:58AM

GMAN| 11.13.09 @ 12:35PM

C.K. Amos| 11.15.09 @ 2:45PM

Mike | 11.13.09 @ 6:55PM

victor| 11.14.09 @ 12:29AM

defeated pigs| 11.14.09 @ 11:48AM

Terry Evans| 3.31.10 @ 10:39PM

C.K. Amos| 11.15.09 @ 2:40PM

Danny| 11.15.09 @ 9:36PM

OldNavyChief| 11.13.09 @ 8:24AM

GMAN| 11.13.09 @ 12:37PM

Al Adab| 11.13.09 @ 2:47PM

Al Adab| 11.13.09 @ 2:47PM

Al Adab| 11.13.09 @ 2:47PM

Al Adab| 11.13.09 @ 2:50PM

Guitanguran | 11.13.09 @ 8:29AM

hunter| 11.13.09 @ 8:52AM

Appleby| 11.13.09 @ 9:16AM

crookedwren| 11.13.09 @ 10:11AM

Richard Baker| 11.13.09 @ 9:32AM

George| 11.13.09 @ 10:37AM

ds80| 11.13.09 @ 12:59PM

gatoray57| 11.13.09 @ 4:39PM

Geodome| 3.31.10 @ 11:09PM

1Freeman| 11.13.09 @ 9:50AM

JimJam| 11.13.09 @ 12:23PM

Stuart the Viking | 11.16.09 @ 4:47PM

Louis Jenkins| 11.13.09 @ 9:53AM

Pingback| 11.13.09 @ 9:56AM

Rmm| 11.13.09 @ 10:39AM

Terry Evans| 3.31.10 @ 12:44AM

Ken (Old Texican)| 11.13.09 @ 11:19AM

Margie| 11.13.09 @ 3:52PM

OldPhart| 11.13.09 @ 10:31PM

Margie| 11.13.09 @ 11:30PM

Margie| 11.13.09 @ 11:56PM

OldPhartbsa| 11.14.09 @ 1:25AM

victor| 11.14.09 @ 2:18PM

martin j smith| 11.13.09 @ 11:35AM

stephanie| 11.13.09 @ 12:22PM

Ken (Old Texican)| 11.13.09 @ 3:18PM

Terry Evans| 3.31.10 @ 1:08AM

Terry Evans| 3.31.10 @ 1:17AM

Liberal Reader| 11.13.09 @ 1:22PM

Interested Conservative| 11.13.09 @ 1:34PM

martin j smith| 11.13.09 @ 1:50PM

Liberal Reader| 11.13.09 @ 2:48PM

SeattleBruce| 11.13.09 @ 5:35PM

Liberal Reader| 11.13.09 @ 8:59PM

victor| 11.13.09 @ 7:10PM

Liberal Reader| 11.13.09 @ 9:01PM

JimE| 11.15.09 @ 5:33PM

Terry Evans| 4.1.10 @ 10:28AM

Rmm| 11.13.09 @ 5:18PM

SeattleBruce| 11.13.09 @ 5:27PM

Liberal Reader| 11.13.09 @ 1:25PM

Interesting Conservative| 11.13.09 @ 1:39PM

martin j smith| 11.13.09 @ 1:54PM

Doorgunner| 11.13.09 @ 1:58PM

Pete2| 11.13.09 @ 2:04PM

Liberal Reader| 11.13.09 @ 2:37PM

Margie| 11.13.09 @ 3:15PM

Doorgunner| 11.13.09 @ 3:22PM

Doorgunner| 11.13.09 @ 3:25PM

Liberal Reader| 11.13.09 @ 3:58PM

Doorgunner| 11.13.09 @ 4:45PM

Liberal Reader| 11.13.09 @ 7:38PM

Liberal Reader| 11.13.09 @ 7:41PM