President Barack Obama has called for an improved dialogue with Islam and is planning a major speech in Egypt. He is not alone in his efforts to reach out. Pope Benedict recently visited Jordan, where he acknowledged "the burden of our common history so often marked by misunderstanding."
Certainly all faiths would benefit from greater understanding. Yet no conversation will have any meaning if it does not address Islam's brutal reality: the consistent persecution of Christians, Jews, and members of other minority faiths.
Indeed, Islamic governments long ago learned that a good offense is the best defense. For instance, Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan held hostage the appointment of Anders Fogh Rasmussen as NATO Secretary General because as Denmark's prime minister the latter had defended a newspaper's legal right to run cartoons critical of the Prophet Mohammed. To win Ankara's acquiescence, Rasmussen abased himself, affirming his "respect" for Islam and explaining how "distressed" he was that many Muslims saw the cartoons as an effort to "insult" their faith.
Moreover, the Organization of the Islamic Conference, made up of 56 Muslim-majority nations, led the UN campaign to denounce the "defamation" of religions. Last November the General Assembly approved a resolution targeting speech criticizing Islam, in particular, explaining that "Islam is frequently and wrongly associated with human rights violations and terrorism." All governments were enjoined "to take all possible measures to promote tolerance and respect for all religions and beliefs."
Let us specify that some U.S. government actions offend many Muslims (in fact, I have criticized a number of those policies). Let us also specify that most Muslims neither engage in nor support terrorism.
Nevertheless, past Western dialogue with Islam has consistently missed the elephant in the room: Pervasive religious persecution.
Who persecutes religious minorities around the world? Communist and former communist states are big offenders: China, Cuba, Vietnam, and North Korea. There's a motley mixed group, including India, Sri Lanka, and Burma. Then there are Islamic states.
The United States Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) recently released its latest report. Of 13 states named Countries of Particular Concern, seven have overwhelming Muslim majorities: Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Turkmenistan, and Uzbekistan. Two, Eritrea and Nigeria, have narrow Muslims majorities. Of 11 countries on the Commission's Watch List, six have majority Islamic populations: Afghanistan, Egypt, Indonesia, Somalia, Tajikistan, and Turkey. Of three countries being "closely monitored," two, Bangladesh and Kazakhstan, are majority Muslim. That is 17 of 27.
International Christian Concern publishes a "Hall of Shame" naming the ten worst persecutors. Six of them -- Egypt, Eritrea, Indonesia, Iraq, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia -- have Muslim majorities.
In fact, it is unusual to find an Islamic nation where religious minorities are not discriminated against, both legally and socially. One of the best predictors that a government persecutes, or fails to protect religious minorities from persecution, is that the majority faith is Islam.
Obviously, there is a range within the Islamic world. Some of persecutors, such as Eritrea and the Central Asian countries, for instance, seem driven more by ideology than theology. Moreover, not all Islamic states imprison or kill dissenters. But even the good isn't very good.
Of Morocco, reported the State Department last year: "The Government places certain restrictions on non-Islamic religious materials and proselytizing." State added that "There were reports of societal abuses or discrimination toward those with different religious beliefs, and converts from Islam to other religions." Although foreign Christians generally worship freely, missionaries "whose religious activities become public face expulsion" and the regime "generally confiscates Arabic-language Bibles and refuses licenses for their importation and sale despite the absence of any law banning such books."
Consider Jordan, the site of the Pope's recent visit. State observed: "The status of respect of religious freedom by the government declined during the period covered by this report. The government's handling of apostasy cases, expulsion of approximately thirty foreign Christian religious workers, and instances of individual and organizational harassment based on religious affiliation all contributed to the decline. Members of unrecognized religious groups and converts from Islam face legal discrimination and risk the loss of civil rights, including threats to their person and/or family."
Last month President Obama visited Turkey where he declared: "Let me say this as clearly as I can: The United States is not at war with Islam." Worthy sentiments, but not all Turks agree. Two years ago a gang of Islamic extremists tortured and murdered three Christians in the city of Malatya. The State Department pointed to "reports of societal abuses and discrimination based on religious affiliation, belief, or practice. Violent attacks and continued threats against non-Muslims during the reporting period created an atmosphere of pressure and diminished freedom for some non-Muslim communities." Moreover, converts from Islam "sometimes experienced social harassment and violence from relatives and neighbors." USCIRF says "the Turkish state's interpretation of secularism has resulted in religious freedom violations for many of Turkey's citizens, including members of majority and, especially, for minority religious communities."
Far worse is Egypt, where the president will be speaking. ICC places the country in its Hall of Shame, noting pervasive legal discrimination and violent harassment against Christians: "Coptic Christians, a native group of Egyptian Christians that traces its existence back to the beginning of Christianity, are widely discriminated against as a result of the discriminatory policies of the country and the bias of Muslim officials. There have been many instances in which, in some localities, Muslim extremists looted and burned down Christian owned businesses and homes, maiming and killing Christians." State warned that "respect for religious freedom by the government declined overall."
David Mathews| 5.19.09 @ 7:07AM
* "In contrast, there is a dearth of Christian states which persecute."
This is only because the West abandoned Christianity and became secular. Back when the West was Christian it persecuted throughout the world, committed numerous acts of genocide, enslaved people and the denominations engaged in perpetual warfare.
For example, the Christians of the United States of America didn't merely persecute the Native Americans ... they engaged in genocide against them and very nearly wiped them out. That's Christianity.
Alan Brooks| 5.19.09 @ 7:51AM
today Christianity is mature, perhaps too mature, too big-tent.
God, wish I'd listened to the likes of Bowman and Brookhiser long ago-- but by the time you know what is going on... well, youth IS wasted on the young.
Alan Brooks| 5.19.09 @ 7:52AM
today Christianity is mature, perhaps too mature, too big-tent.
God, wish I'd listened to the likes of Bowman and Brookhiser long ago-- but by the time you know what is going on... well, youth IS wasted on the young.
Alan Brooks| 5.19.09 @ 8:01AM
but the good news concerning piousness-- and there's always a glimmer-- is that the rarer it becomes, the more appreciative its practitioners (or would-be practitioners) become.
Melvin| 5.19.09 @ 8:07AM
David Mathews if your observations and or opinions are historically accurate then why didn't the political parties make an attempt to cease, this alleged genocide?
Pingback| 5.19.09 @ 9:34AM
Nova Scotia Scott » Blog Archive » Obama urged to remember persecuted Christians in E links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Brian| 5.19.09 @ 10:12AM
"For example, the Christians of the United States of America didn't merely persecute the Native Americans ... they engaged in genocide against them and very nearly wiped them out. That's Christianity. "
Really? That's so interesting. Never heard that before.
What little left wing comic book did you crib that from, junior?
What wiped out the Indians was - disease. The same diseases that wiped out far more Christian Europeans.
How do you feel about the "genocide" waged by leftists in the 20th Century? Communists and socialists systematically murdered over 100 million people in the last century. No religion has ever come close.
Want peace and love? Work to smother Communism and Socialism.
Augustin Duron| 5.19.09 @ 11:12AM
Nice article, we seem to have forgotten what Islam is, and it is a real danger to humanity; I know that not ALL muslims represent a danger, but if they don't it's not because they understand their religion, but because they DON'T.
Islam is a religion of violence, cruelty and assassination. I understand the reasons behind the approach we are commenting, but that approach should be more open and sincere. We want peace, we need peace, but in terms of equality, if muslim countries are hostil against christians, christians countries will completely ban islam for it is a violently hopeless religion that only carries represion and death.
jim rice| 5.19.09 @ 11:35AM
Wasn't it Christians who also attempted to wipe out the indigenous people of South America? Wasn't it the Catholic church at its highest levels that condoned the Holocaust? Wasn't it Christians who murdered countless Africans in the Americas since slavery was also an accepted Christian practice?
jim rice| 5.19.09 @ 11:43AM
and then there's those pesky crusades!
With the notable exception of Frederick II, of course. That man was brilliant... and also not really all that Christian...
Dave Williams| 5.19.09 @ 12:27PM
One of the advantages of atheism is that it obviates all arguments of the "my invisible friend is better than yours" variety. Really, aren't there more important things to worry about?
L. Ross| 5.19.09 @ 1:01PM
Mr. Bandow presumes far too much.
As Augustin Druron mentions, islam is a brutal, violent misogynistic religion because it was founded by a brutal, child raping, misoginystic warlord. People always assume that the fundamental teachings of all religions are based in peace and love. However, islam is unique in that its fundamental teachings are based in domination, conquest, and enforced submission to islam. Sadly, any muslim nation that isn't on one of these lists is a nation that isn't ver muslim at all.
Old Texican| 5.19.09 @ 1:10PM
Rice and Mathews
Thank you guys for provoking rational thought.
(Grin).
The sillier you guys get, the sharper the thinking against your idiocy becomes.
The more you set out your childish crankiness, the more the adults here recognize it as such.
Thank youse (smile).
Well Hi, Dave
Welcome back. Did mom screw up and give you access to adult sites again?
See, you prove the existence of a kind and loving God. If it were not for him, we would have hunted you down and silenced you long ago. (grin)
Fortunately, we ole' nasty Christians sacrifice a good deal on behalf of your silliness. We even pray for your eventual decision to follow Jesus.
So:
We accord you the right to wander in the darkness.
The meanest thing we do here is chuckle for youse.
Heh! the best description I have heard about "athiests" : "The only people in the world who think they are nothing more than dog-food when they die".
fundamentalist| 5.19.09 @ 1:14PM
Matthews, So what do you want us to do, ignore Muslims murdering Christians because we did something similar centuries ago?
Williams, Who holds the record for the number of murders in its name, atheism or religion? Atheism wins by several lengths due to the 100 million plus murdered by atheist regimes in the 20th century.
In addition to state persecution, the state ignores family persecution of converts from Islam. Considered honor killings, much of the murder and persecution of converts to Christ come from family members and the state completely ignores the killing.
Anyone interested in a full description of persecution of Christians should visit persecution.org, the site of Voice of the Martyrs. Their book "Into the Den of Infidels" has some great testimonies of the suffering of converts.
jim rice| 5.19.09 @ 1:32PM
We definitely shouldn't ignore it, but most of the criticism seems to come from people who forget how brutal Christianity was once it became an accepted organized religion.
Which, in my thinking, just speaks to how irrational and evil human beings are at their base. For a religion whose only real major tenant is Love, it sure has spawned a LOT of hate through the years.
Was the Inquisition all that different from an Islamic Jihad?
Old Texican| 5.19.09 @ 1:49PM
Augustin...
Welcome!
To my knowledge that was your first post...and well on point.
OK
As you may have read somewhere, I studied "comparative religion/family-counseling" at Baylor University. (One of the top ten Universities in America based upon successes).
(While many of my peers there were studying to make money, or heal bodies, I was trying to learn how human beings can work and live together.)
Ironically, I was hired as CEO of one of the world's largest companies when I was 27 years old.
(oops)
Boy, did that frustrate many of my peers.
(OK beside the point...but fun.)
Islam:
"Judaism with an Arabic flavor"
"Absolute monotheism"
"Prayers five times per day...cause Arabs have a short attention span".
"A Religion of the sword rather than a religion of the soul."
"A religion that takes any fun out of life by making women into f***able female sheep and beasts of burden instead of friends and lovemates, and beloved mothers of our children.
I do pity Moslems. They are almost as existentially unhappy as the cranky children here on this site.
ncatty| 5.19.09 @ 3:01PM
You will recall the screening of religious symbols at the request of the White House when Obama gave a speech at Georgetown. Does anyone know the venue for the Egypt speech? I think a mosque is under consideration. Good luck asking them to screen Islamic symbols.
fundamentalist| 5.19.09 @ 5:49PM
Jim: "Was the Inquisition all that different from an Islamic Jihad?"
Actually it was. The Inquisition targeted other Christians, Protestants who thought the Church had departed from first century Christianity. And they had good arguments. It's hard to find the justification for the Crusades, Jewish persecution or the Inquisition in the NT.
Islamic terrorism has generally targeted Christians and other non-muslims, and it justification is clearly displayed in the Koran. It's difficult to argue that Islamic terrorism distorts the original teachings of Mohammed when Mohammed himself practiced the very same terrorism against the inhabitants of Arabia.
Augustin Duron| 5.19.09 @ 6:01PM
Catholic church or catholic missioners never tried to wipe out the indigenous people of america, on the contrary, thanks to the Church the majority of iberoamerican countries have a rich indigenous background not only genetically but also cultural.
For example, Argentina and Uruguay, are the whitest countries in iberoamerica, and both lacked of catholic influence when they were being created, so, their funders killed so many indigenous people that you hardly find any resemblance of them when you see an argentinian. If the genocide myth would be true, Mexico would be as white as Argentina o US, but you won't dare to affirm something that absurd, because thanks to the catholic church no indigenous people where massively prosecuted or executed in New Spain.
Americans did prosecute their american indians?, of course they did, that's why it's hard to find american indians in metropolitan areas but only in reservations. But those americans where not catholic, they were protestant, so, you can measure the damage in local population when a catholic country were conquering and when a protestant did.
Regards,
Pingback| 5.19.09 @ 6:34PM
Doug Bandow » Blog Archive » To Engage Islam, Talk about Religious Persecution links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
I.Q. al Rassooli| 5.19.09 @ 8:18PM
Doug Bandow has written an excellent article! If only more journalists had the confidence to ignore the crowd (which currently sadly comprise mainly Islamic apologists and well meaning but terribly ill-informed people who have been completely fooled by all the deceit and absurdly successful pro-Islamic and pro-“Palestinian” propaganda).
Anyhow; Doug – well done!
What typically happens is that a small Muslim population steadily (or in some cases more rapidly) grows until it reaches a “tipping point” (often around 20% - 30% of the total population of a particular country or region within a country). The Muslim community then almost invariably transforms itself from an angry “minority” (that it has been from around 3% onwards) claiming (falsely) to be fighting “oppression” and/or “persecution” (which of course is either largely imagined or in other cases entirely their own fault) into a very militant and frightening mob that quickly makes life intolerable for Christians, or Jews or indeed anyone else (all the “non-believers” or “the Kuffar”) who are then forced to convert or steadily move away (emigrate) to escape otherwise inevitable persecution.
We can see this pattern consistently occurring year after year throughout not only the whole of the Middle East and virtually all of Africa but now spreading rapidly across Europe and even gaining a foothold in America!
Shockingly there is even a rapidly growing Muslim population in brave but tiny Israel where the Muslim population is now passing the dangerous 20% level.
I mention Israel because it is the last place left in the Middle East that Islam has not yet quite conquered, and Christians have been driven out (or crushed into submission) in every other Middle Easter country – only the Jews in Israel protect them and respect their rights.
It’s Muslim population is growing because of Jewish hospitality, tolerance, job opportunities that of course don’t exist in any neighbouring Muslim countries, better education and health care and a welfare system (which again they don’t have in their own countries) to exploit and of course “birth-rate Jihad” (by which is meant the bizarrely high fertility rate of Muslims throughout the world, which they take with them wherever they go, causing huge demographic shifts over “indigenous” populations in the unfortunate host countries that they live off).
As a result Israel – the only Jewish state in the world – is rapidly reaching the point where Birth Rate Jihad will “win” as from around 30% onwards they can make a mockery of the political system (the only democracy in the Middle East) and block-vote in Sharia law, thus using their acquired democratic rights to end democracy! The Jews are hopelessly divided so will never manage to get one of their feeble coalition governments together once there are enough Muslims to vote in, say, Hamas to run the place into the ground then revoke it’s existence and have it “absorbed” it into one or more of its appalling neighbouring states…… the Jews will then once again be persecuted and driven out of their own land (that has been their home for much of the last 3,500 years – around 2,000 years before Muhammad started attacking and killing them there, note).
Anachronistically the Muslims are the only large-scale “Imperialist” or “Colonialist” or “Empire Building” people in the 21st century yet they have the cheek (hypocrisy) to complain about Europeans and Americans when in fact it is they themselves who are doing these things (and as Doug rightly says in his excellent article) persecuting all those they conquer along the way.
Incidentally another “Great Unmentionable” is the fact that the “2 State Solution” has already been tried on a huge scale and failed miserably and been completely forgotten by the world (as of course the Arabs aren’t interested – they simply want to get rid of Israel either in one go or a piece at a time)….. before the 2nd World War the British were supposed to give a vast amount of territory back to the Jews (recovered from the former Ottoman Empire that had been holding it) yet at the last minute they decided to give over 76% of it to Arabs, creating the new country of Jordan (and also inventing a new king for it)….. so that actually IS a “Palestinian State” (except for cynical propaganda reasons they will never accept their own people whom they prefer to have held hostage in Gaza and used as pawns in a game of lets-blame-other-people-for-all-this).
Kind Regards,
I.Q. al Rassooli
author of “Lifting the Veil: The True Faces of Muhammad and Islam” http://www.amazon.com/dp/1434392023/
(Volume II is due out in soon)
Also a series of well over 200 talks presented on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/AhmadsQuran3
Recently interviewed on BlogTalk radio: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/the-gathering-storm/2009/05/01/The-Gathering-Storm-Radio-Show
Old Texican| 5.19.09 @ 9:53PM
Hi Al Rasooli
I already read the book...and lived it.
Thank you though, and I recommend your work highly.
Best regards
Cow Rie| 5.19.09 @ 10:09PM
While Dave Matthews shares his deep seated liberal guilt, isn't it interesting that those who whine about the plight of Native Americans seem to forget that for EONS more advanced civilizations have usually displaced others.
I don't hear anyone belly ache for the Assyrians, Phoenicians, the Malacites, the Etruscans, or the vast tribes of northern Europe when Rome was ascendant, etc, etc.
What guilty Dave also seems to forget is that greed for money and power is what causes man to do harm to man. Yes, even greedy power hungry atheistic people are guilty of genocide. The always loved leftist Marxist and the Nazis are a couple of examples.
So Dave, sorry you are so insecure about Christians and that you also carry all that liberal guilt. Go drive around in your hybrid and maybe you will feel better.
Cow Rie
Angel| 5.19.09 @ 11:33PM
So Christians should apologize for their actions during the Crusades? That's been about a thousand years now, right? Really, isn't the apology Statute of limitations up on that yet? Well, if that's the case, I think all men and women should apologize for the way Adam and Eve screwed things up for everybody. Stupid liberals.
Richard Baker| 5.20.09 @ 3:06PM
To all you Liberals:
Last I checked The errors of the Christian religions that you endlessly prattle on about ended, for the most part, 300-400 years ago. The Islamic crazies have never ceased their peculiar brand of lunacy or is it unfair to notice? Read the Koran and you'll see a warrior code which is very similar to Bushido as used by the Japanese inWWII. Brutality towards your fellow man is a hallmark of Islam, as was Bushido. Try reading both sides, my friends.
MT| 5.20.09 @ 6:30PM
I just wish these liberal wimps would move to the Middle East to get a taste of Islam. They wouldn't whine then--they'd get their heads chopped off. Weenies.
Richard Baker| 5.20.09 @ 10:26PM
MT:
These folks are physical cowards. They think that the vehemence of their speech will protect them. Most of them are what Rush calls "The New Castrati". Geldings aren't particularly aggressive.
Mike| 5.21.09 @ 11:32AM
One other historical correction regarding the Crusades. They were the result of Papal efforts to open up the holy lands to Christian pilgramage. Remember, the whole of the middle east and north Africa were ruled by Christians until Mohammed came along. But it wasn't their takeover that sparked the Crusades, nor the capture of Jerusalem itself. Only when the pilgramages were shut off did the Pope react.
It takes two to tango. It's simplistic and wrong to give Christianity a black eye based on the Crusades.
Richard Baker| 5.21.09 @ 1:22PM
Mike:
I read in college at the University of Missouri that Moslem depredations against Christian pilgrims were the catalyst for the Pope initiating the Crusades. Yes, there were some who used them for personal gain and engaged in atrocities. Also remember, the world hadn't matured to the point where there were Rules of Land Warfare and the Geneva Conventions. Medieval combat was brutal, see the movie Braveheart, as an example. However, all the Europeans really wanted was to engage in pilgrimages to sites regarding the Prince of Peace. The followers of the Religion of Peace just couldn't allow it. Thus, the Crusades.
Pingback| 5.22.09 @ 2:25PM
Steynian 357 « Free Canuckistan! links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Pingback| 5.23.09 @ 10:24AM
Doug Bandow » Blog Archive » If Demography is Destiny, Whither the West? links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Pingback| 6.5.09 @ 1:14PM
Eritrea » Updated Travel Warning For Eritrea February 18 2008 links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Rehana| 7.8.09 @ 5:55PM
I quote the Sura:Ayat to expose the devils in disguise who have hijacked islam and use it to spread violence.
Leave the religion alone.
Its between an individual and God.
As to who is who and what?
Leave it to God,for He is the judge not us.
God created us and set us free.
He gave us the Book to abide by its laws.
if we abide peace shall come.
If we defy violence shall spread.
We all are answerable to God not humans.
Lets not butt in other's affairs as God asks.
The best amongst us is the one who is kind to others.
Hold back your words and actions against others.
God asks for peace,that is what the world needs.
Live and let live.
Save lives dont take them.
Serve the world with love not hate.
Dont play satan in the garb of saint.
Life is short,run to do good deeds is all that God asks.
Help others.
The haves must go down their knees to lift the havenots.
Knowledge imparted is the knowledge gained.
Give one fifth from your salary to the poor.
Dont let anyone spread violence in the name of islaah ie peace.2:11.
Hang them.5:33.
They make mosques to spread zarar ie violence.9:107.
9:108.Dont stand in them.
2:79.Dont write books and say these are from God.
3:78.Dont add words with the words of God in the Quran and say these too are from God,dont lie.
7:71.Dont concoct names and fight over them that you and your forefathers have concocted for which God has not given any dalil ie proof in the Quran.
2:42.Dont wrap lies in a dress of truth.
We all are lost.9:31.9:34.9:9.9:97.16:61.7:38.
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