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The Energy Spectator
How Nuclear Will Revive
But not because of any “nuclear lobby” — though maybe because the so-called “smart grid” is anything but smart.
One of the abiding illusions of the energy debate is that there is an all powerful “nuclear lobby” that is engineering the revival of nuclear power.
What organizations could it possibly involve? The Nuclear Energy Institute has a modest budget and an interactive website, but then so does the American Association of Preferred Provider Organizations and the American Land Title Association. In fact, who doesn’t these days?
If you want to see a powerful lobbying group, look at coal. Next to farming, coal is probably the most powerfully imbedded industry in the United States. There are 75,000 coal miners still at work around the country and Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Ohio, Illinois, Wyoming, Montana and a few others are considered “coal states.”
Where are the nuclear states? There are none. Sen. Pete Domenici of New Mexico (which houses both Los Alamos and Sandia National Laboratories) came as close as anyone to being the “Mr. Nuclear” and he retired this year. New Mexico’s two Democratic Senators, Jeff Bingaman and Tom Udall, now argue that “New Mexico’s energy wealth lies in the power of its wind and sun.”
In the 1970s and 1980s, three major American companies — General Electric, Westinghouse and Babcock & Wilcox — were the technological leaders of the world in the nuclear reactor field. Today B&W is servicing its existing reactors but has no new designs on the drawing board. Westinghouse is still a leader but was bought by Toshiba in 2007. Mitsubishi is also starting to build reactors. Areva, the French giant, is probably now the world leader and the Russians aren’t doing a bad job of marketing their technology around the world. (They currently have plans to build a reactor for Hugo Chavez in Venezuela.)
That leaves General Electric as the American giant. Have you seen its ads for nuclear on TV? I haven’t either. According to GE, its leading products are windmills and the “smart grid.” It ran the “Wizard-of-Oz Scarecrow” ad for the Super Bowl and now has an ad circulating on the Internet touting the coming wonders of the “smart grid.”
It goes like this. A flaxen-haired girl of about ten is standing in front of a clothes dryer, “It says to wait until 10 p.m.,” she declares. Then she is in front of a wall outlet: “It only takes what it needs.” Then she is standing in front of a distribution box: “It talks to the others.” Finally she is in front of a window: “It brings power from far away.”
Now a voiceover informs us: “With the smart grid, energy is more intelligent than ever. Now we can manage electricity more efficiently, save money by using energy at off-peak hours, and even distribute alternative energy from one part of the country to another, simply by listening to what the smart grid has to say.”
Back to the girl, now standing in front of a window gazing at a waxing half moon: “It says it’s sunny in Arizona.”
Let’s take a look at what’s going on here. The first premise is that by putting computerized electric meters in everyone’s home, the smart grid can convey real-time pricing and encourage people to redistribute their consumption to off-peak hours. This will “level loads” and solve the perennial problem of utilities in meeting demand that occurs a few hours of the day or a few days of the year.
The second premise is that the smart grid will help integrate wind and solar energy — the two balky “renewables” that have the disadvantage of not always being available when we want them. With the smart grid, wind and solar generation will always be available somewhere and can be conveyed to where it’s needed.
Let’s start with the first premise. It’s fitting that the girl is standing in front of a clothes dryer because that and washing dishes are the only examples anyone has ever been able to come up with about how residential users are going to “redistribute” their energy consumption.
What else can they do? Are they going to wait until after midnight to watch prime-time television? Are they going to heat up dinner at 4 a.m.? Are they going to turn on lights at sunrise instead of when it gets dark? And how about air conditioning, that most voracious consumer of electricity? One suggestion floated by the Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI) in “The Green Grid,” a study published last June, is that people might “pre-cool” their homes by running the air conditioning in the morning in anticipation of hot afternoons. This may indeed level peak loads. But it will also consume moreenergy, since some of the pre-cooling will obviously dissipate.
There’s one more thing about drying your clothes at 10 p.m. Have you ever noticed what happens if you leave wet clothes sitting in the washer too long? They start smelling a little moldy, don’t they? Maybe this idea about drying your clothes just after you wash them isn’t such a bad idea.
Another idea popular these days among smart grid advocates is called “demand response.” Basically, this means cutting people off from their electricity when there isn’t enough available.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (55) | Leave a comment
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frost| 3.11.09 @ 7:12AM
Oh, that the aforementioned Grande Finale might be true?
But, gotta figure in at least a dozen years of suits and protests by the Sierra Club types of uber-greenies to sloooow down the process (if not totally derail same) - - remember how they blocked Prudhoe Bay oil drilling back in the 70's? Their protests of these years are probably more "refined" and better funded, and more "efficient" too, God forbid.
Won't hold my breath on this one...
Paul Petersen | 3.11.09 @ 8:16AM
At some point the government will have to have new laws for the review and permitting process that preempts the courts involvement to thwart the Greenies and NIMBYS.
Also the folks at Arriva have to be turned loose on their reclaim project to start chewing through all the spent fuel rods and the sites now that ZeroBama iced the Yucca Mt. Repository.
Nuclear and Hydro are the only base load zero carbon methods as we have today or will for a long time into the future.
Mike| 3.11.09 @ 8:41AM
I'd like to think Tucker is correct, but the anti-nuclear sentiment is still amazingly strong. I live in perhaps the "greenest" town in Vermont (Charlotte) with what has to be the highest per capita population of Global Warmist loons in the country, and yet the most popular referendum at town meeting day was shutting down Vermont Yankee, the state's only nuke. This despite the propect of a significant increase in carbon emmisions and a 40% rate hike to boot. The mindlessness is stunning!
whiterb| 3.11.09 @ 9:06AM
Soon we will be told that freeing in winter is good, that sweltering in summer is good, that wearing unwashed clothes is good- it all leads to longevity, higher intelligence, better sex, you name it. The benefits of cold showers ? Endless. The people in Vermont will buy every word of it. The question is where else will they buy it? There will be studies, and the network news people will solemnly present the evidence. This is al part of " changing science". If you disbelieve you will be proclaimed evil or an imbecile .
Son Of Sam | 3.11.09 @ 10:09AM
Nuclear will revive when the ObamaNazis unconditionally surrender. We need to attack them by any means necessary, including public confrontations, running our candidates in every Democrat primary to chew up their campaign funds and lawsuits when people start dying of heat exhaustion because the GOVERNMENT decided when and for how long they can have their air conditioning on. For that matter, we should be finding some way of suing all the tree-hugging, job-killing ecofreak criminal conspiracies like the Sierra Club right now. Shake off the slave mentality and GO AFTER THEM!
Son Of Sam
http://www.geocities.com/samadamssos
Pingback| 3.11.09 @ 10:12AM
How Nuclear Will Revive - The Global Warming Skeptics Forum links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Thomas| 3.11.09 @ 10:51AM
A nice fantasy, but not very likely. In the first place, as Mr. Tucker noted, nuclear powerplant construction has to overcome the coal lobby hurdle. As use as fuel for powerplants is not only the largest use for coal in this country, but virtually the only significant use for it, do not expect the coal producers to roll over and play dead. Next, as frost and most of the other posters noted, the Green Weenies are still running amok through the federal courts and the halls of the EPA. As much as they hate oil, gas and coal, they are terrified of nuclear power and will never give up the fight against it willingly.
As more people use more energy and our ability to generate it remains stagnant, at best, public outcry will force relaxation of restrictions against new plant construction. But that may be too little too late. It takes three years to build a nuclear plant and almost as long to build a conventionally fired plant, even without the environmental red-tape and lawsuits.
This country has gone seriously astray over the last six decades. It used to be that if there was a shortage of power, investors would build a plant to generate more. Now, we just huddle in the dark. Sad.
Pingback| 3.11.09 @ 11:10AM
Photomaniacal » Blog Archive » William Tucker on “How Nuclear Will Revive” links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
cdc| 3.11.09 @ 11:32AM
The washer/dryer scenario is the most easily understood scenario; but I'd bet that, like with most technologies, more applications would quickly be found.
Primetime TV might be worth X cents per kilwatt but at Y cents maybe a book is more tempting. More information lets people make better decisions, and when it is built into the system, new systems develop to exploit it.
Heck maybe hybrid houses are the way to go. A storage battery in the basement so I can buy cheap and use high.
But maybe that's just me, one of those cheap jerks who doesn't go around buying cars and houses I can't afford and whining when the bill comes due.
But I'm still pro nuke; as long as that doesn't mean a whole bunch of subsidies for construction and waste disposal.
Pingback| 3.11.09 @ 1:08PM
How Nuclear Will Revive « Depravity links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Pingback| 3.11.09 @ 3:50PM
Nuclear Obama: Will Cap-and-Trade Plans Spur Nuclear Revival? - Environmental Capita links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Liberty or Death| 3.11.09 @ 5:41PM
I agree with the posters who have written about the Eco-Kook community. They are Obama's voting base. Anyone in the Obama administration suggesting we go nuclear, would be akin to immediate job suicide. As much as Obama would like to stand before America and proclaim he alone defeated the energy crisis, I do not believe he has the stones to pick the obvious choice of nuclear. More than likely we will continue the idiocy of solar, biofuels and wind, with a side order of "smart grid" and ever-increasing regulations on automakers to provide "greener" vehicles.
Several years later... Obama would be gleeful with most Americans commuting via light-rail, or driving go carts, with lawnmower engines. He'll declare victory over energy and the media will parrot him.
Obama going nuclear might happen. Heck, he got elected with zero experience, a pocket full of American-hating friends, and "hope and change" as his "official" policy. Anything is possible.
Chemman| 3.11.09 @ 6:32PM
cdc: the options for batteries in the basement already exist besides a bank of batteries you would need a charge controller and inverter to convert AC/DC electricity plus an automatic disconnect from the grid when the blackout comes or your backup system won't work.
Most of the technologies the greenies hype are in the category of hope. For the greenies do me a favor an live off Grid with the technologies you are claiming will work. Once you have to give up all the luxuries you have become use to maybe you will become more rational.
BTW I practice what I'm asking of you. I own a renewable energy system to run my house. I am completely off Grid.
Brittanicus| 3.11.09 @ 7:22PM
Senator Jeff Bingaman (D-NM) joined nefarious ranks of certain democrats, to strip E-Verify from both the Stimulus and Omnibus bills. All 50 took the Oath of office to protect the American People, but as we have seen they have intentionally engineered a portal, so ILLEGAL ALIENS can steal jobs from US Workers. This was carried out mostly behind closed doors, but this time THE PEOPLE will be made aware of where their loyalty lies.
REMEMBER THESE NAMES..?
Sen.Harry Reid (D-NV) arch enemy of American workers, committed the ultimate sin today Reid and 49 Democrats blocked E-Verify in the Senate. Their disloyal actions shall be well remembered, when the grovel for re-election. They condemned hundreds of thousands in the construction industry, having to compete over jobs. Parasites are organisms that live of a host and that is what contractors will do, when they look for the cheapest labor they can find. Starting with the stimulus, then followed by the Omnibus spending plan this Senators blocked E-Verify.
Akaka (D-HI) Inouye (D-HI),Begich (D-AK),Bennet (D-CO) Udall (D-CO),Bingaman (D-NM) Udall(D-NM),Boxer (D-CA) Feinstein (D-CA),Brown (D-OH),Burris (D-IL) Durbin (D-IL),Byrd (D-WV) Rockefeller (D-WV),Cantwell (D-WA) Murray,(D-WA),Cardin (D-MD) Mikulski (D-MD),Carper (D-DE) Kaufman (D-DE),Casey (D-PA),Conrad (D-ND) Dorgan (D-ND),Dodd (D-CT) Lieberman.
Here's more Senators who killed E-Verify Here's more (ID-CT),Feingold (D-WI) Kohl (D-WI),Gillibrand (D-NY) Schumer (D-NY),Hagan (D-NC),Harkin (D-IA),Johnson (D-SD),Kerry (D-MA),Landrieu (D-LA),Shaheen (D-NH),Leahy (D-VT) Sanders (I-VT),Levin (D-MI) Stabenow (D-MI),Lincoln (D-AR) Pryor (D-AR),Menendez (D-NJ) Lautenberg (D-NJ),Merkley (D-OR) Wyden (D-OR),Nelson (D-FL),Reed (D-RI) Whitehouse (D-RI),Reid (D-NV) and Warner (D-VA).
They sold the American Worker out for campaign money from corporate lobbyists and open border fanatics. In this miserable time of unemployment and uncertainty from the janitor, to the computer programmer you will be REMEMBERED. You will not escape your insult to the American worker, who depends on your honesty to vote on their behalf. You have now proved the dimensions of how far you will go, to keep the illegal alien invasion crossing our borders, overstaying their ship or plane visa.
The corruption so deeply instilled in the Washington elite. ASK JUDICIALWATCH? The billions of tax dollars taken from every, man, woman and child, to support the welfare of illegal aliens. Like Pearl harbor we will not forget the traitors who swore to uphold their allegiance to THE PEOPLE.
Steve| 3.11.09 @ 9:26PM
Smart Grid does not reduce electric energy consumption. It's only to reduce the peak demand to reduce the required on-line generation capacity. This has the added benifit of reducing energy loss in transmision and distribution of electricity.
Levis Kochin| 11.11.09 @ 10:00PM
Electricity at noon is not worth the same amount as electricity at midnight. The market price of late night power is on average about half the price of day power. Sometimes power at 3:20 PM is worth much more (or less) than power at 3:21PM
Pingback| 3.12.09 @ 2:16AM
Wall Street Journal » Blog Archive » Nuclear Obama: Will Cap-and-Trade Plans Spur Nuc links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Spooner| 3.12.09 @ 2:17AM
Forget about turning off the air conditioner for 10 minutes each hour, have you stayed at modern hotels lately? During summer months they have programs that shut down their air conditioning systems, but leave the fans running to move the air about, on a continuing basis for several hours. They do not resume air conditioning no matter what the room temperature until they have reached the time designated for resumprion of operation. This could easily be controlled via utilities under the smart grid concept.
Pingback| 3.12.09 @ 3:01AM
The American Spectator : bHow/b Nuclear Will Revive » GOSSIPGET.COM links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Pingback| 3.12.09 @ 3:51AM
Portaits, mazes, news and more. « Mazes - By Yonatan Frimer links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
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Mazes and Portraits of todays. « - Science and Technical Animations - By Yonatan Frim links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
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Mazes and Portaits. « Amazing Cool New Stuff links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
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Mesothelioma Law professional operating in Lodge Grass, Wyoming links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Roy| 3.12.09 @ 5:12AM
If coal is "as powerfully entrenched as ever", why is it so easy for the globodoom lobby to strangle new coal plants in the cradle?
It is possible that by laying heavy stress on globodoom, this crowd can be persuaded to get out of the way of nuclear but not coal. But that's the issue. It doesn't matter what would be the best technical solution, what matters is what our master, Al Gore, will let us build.
John M| 3.12.09 @ 11:18AM
It would seem that the nuclear power option has been closed off for the foreseeable future and probably for as long as the Democrats stay in control in Washington, which from the way things look could be a very long time. Money for continued work on the nuclear waste repository at Yucca Mountain has been taken out of the budget, and no new nuclear power plants will be built without ensuring a permanent place to put the spent fuel, even if all the other regulatory hurdles could be circumvented. I agree with Manny that thorium power may be the best way to go for the all the reasons he cited. The reason it makes some people nervous is that I believe in the process, plutonium is produced, although this is used as fuel and gets thoroughly consumed. I am afraid that it will be left up to other countries, like India, to develop this technology.
mulus| 3.12.09 @ 4:54PM
Here in Missouri it likely that the funding problems will be worked out, and unit two will be built at Ameren's Reform, Mo. site. The public comment mtg.s were attended by locals who want to see it built, with a few token greens for color.
I had hoped Chu would set the China Syndrome crowd straight, but I don't see it happening any time soon.
I wonder if the Green Freedom Project out of Los Alamos will get more funding. What about those modular, mass produced reactors that MIT was working on? Fast breeders to burn up some of that `spent' fuel?
If Obama had really wanted to make a change he'd have cleared the regulatory thicket and started a massive build out across the nation. To replace carbon based energy sources on a terrawatt scale over a few decades requires a high base energy regime that nuclear alone can provide. And, if Obama is truely serious about caps, there is, indeed, only one path to travel that won't leave him in the dark.
The alternatives, at present, are boutique (and it is not as if the research hasn't been ongoing since the `70's).
joe.shuren, bouvet island| 3.12.09 @ 6:56PM
The marginal cost of intermittent peak power is always more than steady baseline power, as the extra generating capacity is not used most of the time. So any smart grid technology that provides this true cost to the consumer can encourage leveling of the load where it is possible and perhaps lengthen the time before capital has to be invested in new power plants and extra transmission lines. It is true that some of the electricity usage might be transfered to another time slot, but if consumers know the true cost then they can decide when to spend their money and might save both energy and money by consuming less as well. So some experimental tinkering with electric company rate plans might be a cheap way to conserve. States like Massachusetts regulate power companies and pay them to encourage conservation this way.
The "Compact City" theory of Dantzig posits maybe 20% savings by optimal leveling of space and time, although it needs to be updated by heat flow costs as air-conditioning might increase.
There is a paradox in smart grid for solar and wind. This would require new transmission lines from the favorable producing areas to the consuming areas. But those new lines would be used to transmit power from cheaper coal plants and so would be opposed by many environmentalists. Expect to see brownouts and blackouts in California this summer for this very reason.
You might say the smart grid is made necessary by solar and wind; if you site them in one place you need transmission lines, but if you distribute them on homes then those are not economical unless they feed surplus back into the grid. In southern China where the grid is not adequate many companies use diesel generators for peak load and grid inadequacies, and no smart grid would help there. Obviously solar and wind there are not steady enough for companies to produce efficiently, storage is not cost-effective, and hydro or geothermal not available options.
In Florida, Progress Energy plans 2 nuclear plants near the first one, then will tear down 2 coal plants at the first site. The environmentalists haven't geared up to delay the process yet. Stay tuned.
George| 4.28.11 @ 2:00PM
Bouvet Island !?
I will get back to reading the article and the other comments later. I was just brousing the internet to see what was being said just before the time of Fukushima about nuclear plants when I saw the two words "Bouvet Island" in your comment. This reader is one who would be interested in a further comment or two from you (if you would, please) about your making note of that rarely mentioned place. The first time I became aware of the island was in the 1980's when I was doing research for a term paper on Antarctica in a geography course. I mostly recall that the island has an interesting, but little known, history as a 19th-early 20th century whaleing station. I don't believe that I have seen the words Bouvet Island in print since I wrote the term paper.
Thanks for mentioning Bouvet,
George
Rich Rostrom| 3.13.09 @ 12:06AM
Obama has just moved to kill the Yucca Mountain waste repository. While the U.S. nuclear industry can survive without Yucca Mountain , this is a serious blow to its future.
With nuclear power being strangled, and coal being suppressed for "carbon" evils, the U.S. will first have a power shortage, and then turn to massively increased use of natural gas. Which is no longer "cheap and abundant". In another decade the U.S. may find itself in the position of Europe: dependent on imported natural gas from Russia.
Jeff Eerkens| 3.13.09 @ 1:53AM
I have strongly supported president Obama up to now. But his political caving in to Harry Reid of Nevada is extremely disappointing and makes me and my colleagues start to loose faith in him. Opposition to Yucca is total insanity. It is based on fabrications, junk science, and irrational allegations made by anti-nuclear activists. While feigning to know all about radiation physics, reactors, and nuclear fuels, few have actually designed, built, or operated a reactor. Should Yucca be stopped, Nevada will loose a unique opportunity to be involved with the advanced nuclear cycle which will be part of all future prime energy generation. It will support thousands of high-tech jobs. I can not understand why some politicians listen to a handful of biased anti-nuclear lobbyists instead of some 200,000 professionals worldwide who have diligently studied energy engineering and who see a clear solution to the pending energy crisis. In the USA it means expanding our present fleet of 104 nuclear power plants to some 500 units by mid-century, when oil fields are exhausted. The motive is to save our children and grand-children from an economic catastrophe that will surely unfold if we don't carry out such a program. Nuclear fission waste amounts to one aspirin tablet per year per person using nuclear electricity, compared to tons of air pollutants and globe-warming gaseous CO2 emitted by coal or fossil-fuel combustion. Nuclear waste has been safely transported and stored by the US nuclear navy for half a century. Green nuclear power is the only practical solution to simultaneously (1) avoid dependence on foreign oil and gas, (2) overcome future oil and gas depletion, and (3) ameliorate global warming. Nevada's Yucca repository is essential for maintaining a successful nuclear power program. With proven fast breeder technology, uranium can provide global prime energy for 3000 years. Obama has a unique opportunity to become remembered as a leader who was able to re-orient the USA in the right direction and convince liberal Democrats they were wrong to oppose nuclear energy. I have (had?) great faith in him that he would shy away from lobbyists and listen to the real experts. Those obstructing nuclear power will be seen as irresponsible neo-luddites by future generations. Wind and solar are fine for small-quantity energy applications in selected locations but costs three times more than nuclear energy per delivered kWh. They can not support heavy industry and feed the vast fleets of future electric plug-in automobiles. Expensive energy storage systems are needed to store energy when the sun does not shine or the wind does not blow. Wind- and sand-storms, millions of acres, miles of maintenance roads, electric interconnects, and enormous ecosystem destruction (naturalist nightmares) are also big problems for large wind and solar farms. Relying on wind and solar energy without the accompaniment of a vigorous expansion of nuclear power will assuredly cause economic disaster and will taint the administration as irresponsible to our progeny. Opposing a practical program to rescue the USA from future energy-deprivation and economic collapse coincides with Bin Laden's objective to destroy our civilization. Some may not care and want to live in caves again, but most of us prefer today's comforts which America's settlers worked very hard to attain.
Jeff Eerkens, PhD
Adjunct research professor,
Nuclear Science & Eng'ng Institute,
U of Missouri - Columbia
hfg| 11.26.09 @ 9:47PM
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TOD Converter for Windows
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I’ll have a Poptropica full written walkthrough very soon, but in the meantime, here are some answers to some of the frequently asked questions about Mythology Island. Having trouble? Post a question in the comments and I’ll try to answer it!
Getting Hercules to Help You
Hercules won’t help you until you have all five items from Zeus’ quest.Poptropica Once you have the five items, bring them to Athena. Zeus will appear and steal them. The big jerk! Once this happens, talk to Athena and she will tell you that Hercules will help you. You’ll need to have the magic mirror from Aphrodite because Hercules doesn’t want to have to walk. He’s so lazy!
Getting the Hydra Scale
You can see how to do this in thePoptropica videos, but basically you need to jump up when the Hydra is about to strike. He will rear one of his heads back to attack and his eyes will bulge out. When this happens, jump up in the air and then try to land on top of his head. PoptropicaThat head will get knocked out. When all five heads get knocked out, the Hydra will be asleep and you can click on him to get one of the scales. Poptropica I’ll have a Poptropica full written walkthrough very soon, but in the meantime, here are some answers to some of the frequently asked questions about Mythology Island. Having trouble? Post a question in the comments and I’ll try to answer it!Poptropica
Getting Hercules to Help You
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jay | 3.2.11 @ 1:18PM
when are we gonna get serious about energy security and stop depending on other countries for power? grrrr
Traveler| 5.10.11 @ 11:26AM
"Most of the technologies the greenies hype are in the category of hope." - Chemman
I like this statement. Don't just complain and demand for an alternative, PRESENT the alternative. Otherwise, we have to live with what we have.
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