The American Spectator

Tim| 2.23.09 @ 8:56AM

Was there really any doubt that Sean Penn would win the Oscar for "Milk"?

He would have won anyway, but California's Prop 8 sealed the deal.
.....and not to be politically outdone....."Milk's" writer, started the Oscar evening with a swipe at the Morman Church although he did it with grace.

Left Leaning Politics have always ruled Hollywood and the Oscars in recent decades so I hope no one took it personal when 500 or so folks demonstrated their arrival on the Red Carpet.

Free speech works both ways....

All in All it was a good show. But no Sean, sorry, I am not ashamed of my vote to uphold Marriage as a sacred bond between a man and a women.

However, I have no problem with Gays sharing their lives and love with one another and receiving the same bennies as married couples.

What you do in the privacy of your own home is your business but leave the Institution of marriage alone.

Alan Brooks| 2.23.09 @ 8:58AM

not so much tyranny, but Brave New World in its seductiveness-- and emptiness. BNW is, when you re-read it, not so bad in the gross materialist sense; involving sex and soma, but such a life would be, and today in some cases already is, cold. heartless. meaningless.
look how ruthless today's pornocracy is,
it's probably not even very much about money, disgusting-porn is as much about shocking and revolting as anything else. no one will ever go broke underestimating such taste.

frost| 2.23.09 @ 9:37AM

Nah -- won't probably see that movie, even when it gets on Showtime (no, I won't subscribe to HBO, even though they may also be a part of the same ownership -- Bill Mahre and Michael Moore crapola offend me sufficiently that I won't underwrite their garbage; Larry David notwithstanding) and, candidly, I fail to comprehend why anyone wants to view something like "Milk," excepting, of course, the gay contingent. Penn's a nutcase, sure, but he alone is not the reason I'd avoid this movie; to me it just isn't entertainment, that's all. Now, if it were one of the Monty Python efforts, that'd be a much different story....

Marc Jeric| 2.23.09 @ 9:43AM

A far-left agitator glorifying the life of a far-left homo - a par for Hollywood. But Oscar? I guess when Brad Pitt failed to preserve the murderous regime of Saddam Hussein he (I mean Pitt) found solace in electing the other Hussein to our presidency.

Doctor Right| 2.23.09 @ 9:59AM

Hollywood has several required categories for films that aspire to be nominated for Oscars.

One of those categories is "The Saintly gays".

Was there ever a more "Saintly", sympathetic man than Harvey Milk, who's personal and political struggles freed San Francisco to become the cesspool of moral degeneracy and stupid policies that it is today??

Yes, goold old Harvey...What a "Saint"!

We MUST make a movie about him! And who better to portray him than a far-left, rabble-rousing ignoramus like Sean Penn??

It's sooooooo perfect! In your face, America!

...yawn...

Mike| 2.23.09 @ 10:34AM

Tim - If you support giving them all the beenies, what's the point of denying them the good housekeeping seal of approval? Better to defend the sanctity of marriage in both word and deed.

Red Phillips| 2.23.09 @ 11:02AM

"Was there really any doubt that Sean Penn would win the Oscar for "Milk"?"

I actually thought Mickey Rourke was a shoo-in. This was definitely a political vote by the Academy.

Alan Brooks| 2.23.09 @ 11:02AM

no one has ever gone broke, nor will anyone ever go broke, underestimating taste.

frost| 2.23.09 @ 11:29AM

Yup -- I guess Red's right -- the red won, and it sure was political.

Paul| 2.23.09 @ 11:48AM

I am envious.... I can no longer watch and enjoy
most movies these days because of the same-old repeat actors and actresses. I am one of those people who watch movies for the movie and not the cast.

No matter what costumes he wears, or words he's told to recite or the special effects, he's still the same old anti-American, Sean Pean. They can't fool me! This applies to all. Actors, to be most effective and believable, should remain anonymous.

I like movies with actors whom I have never seen and will never see again.

Anthony| 2.23.09 @ 11:49AM

So this gifted actor, but intellectual lightweight, Sean Penn actually said America had the courage to elect an "elegant president", or some such rot. Thank God I haven't watched this crap in over 25 yrs, since Cuckoo's Nest with Nicholson. So where was Penn's intellectual twin pigmy,Tim Robbins, with his "chill wind" polemic? I guess the "Fairness Doctrine", or a variation on the theme, doesn't' register with these clowns, only their fevered manifestations of Bush's book burnings. Of course, with Robbins & Co., silencing talk radio is not a "chill wind" but rather, a cleansing of America. O.K. ,we got the Herbert Marcusian logic from you jokers a long time ago, it's getting real old real fast. Hey Sean, how about your elegant president holding a black tie dinner just one month into his reign, as America sinks? Kinda of Hooverish, don't you think? Oh I forgot, you don't think. I'm with Red, Mickey Rourke is great. I wish he had body slammed Sean Penn last night and crushed the weasel.

stmichrick| 2.23.09 @ 12:04PM

Penn peaked when he played to type as Spicoli in 'Fast Times at Ridgemont High.'

Dustoff| 2.23.09 @ 12:58PM

Ahhhh Yes, my San Diego high school.
Only to be wrecked by having this fool play in a movie written about it.

JP| 2.23.09 @ 1:19PM

There was a time (about 29 years ago), Sean Penn and Timothy Hutton were considered the 2 best young actors in Hollywood. The movie Taps was thier coming out. My how things turned out differently. As mentioned above, Penn is best remembered as a drugged out surfing bum from a teen skin flick (the scene of him hitting a sneaker on his head and yelling, "I'm so wasted!" will go down in history). Hutton was too full of himself and his righteoousness, and it turned out his acting abilities are very limited. It took Penn a decade to catch up to Hutton and pass him by as far as political activism goes. Coincidently, Penn's activism increased as his acting performances decreased.

Susan Hart| 2.23.09 @ 1:51PM

Your Comment:
Sean Penn won a wonderful award last night for his part in a movie about civil rights. I wonder how he can get up in front of millions and proclaim his holy then thou speech when he says, "We've got to have equal rights for everyone" what a joke.. Equal rights for who? Mr. Penn where are the rights of the unborn? The babies that will get slaughtered when his friend Mr. Obama legalizes abortion on demand. Injecting poison into the skull of babies that are aborted and are full term? If the injesction of poison does not work they will be thrown in a compactor to further their pain. Mr. Penn if you want equal rights for all then stop your messiah Mr. Obama from the Freedom of Choice act.

David| 2.23.09 @ 2:26PM

Sean Penn's comments just show how arrogant he is. He, like most of the so called actors today have never had an original thought. They say words other people write and make faces that fit the words and make millions of dollars doing it. I have to give him credit, he chose the right profession. He certainly could not compete in the real world. With few exceptions, hollywood is a bunch of lemmings. Triple digit IQs do not abound in hollywood. If someone writes it, he could do the eulogy for Castro. I can do without anymore of the "all knowing Penn".

Doctor Right| 2.23.09 @ 2:33PM

It's safe to say that at least 50% of the movie-going public is reasonably conservative.

That said, we need to take a page from Dr. King and hit these bastards where it hurts - in their wallets.

Most Hollywood films are drivel. I could go an entire year without once going to the cinema. If a sizeable portion of conservative movie patrons did the same, they'd get the message real quick.

It may be time to start emulating the 60's as a means of recapturing this nation from the Marxists. One thing the fools in Hollywood do understand is money - they're all secretly raving capitalists in the privacy of their own homes.

Hollywood is ripe for a boycott. Let Sean Penn peddle his movies in San Francisco, LA, and Manhattan. The rest of us in fly-over country can watch the good old days on TCM...

Wankel| 2.23.09 @ 3:05PM

Unbelieveable as it may sound, I have never seen a Sean Penn movie. Nor one with Mr. Robbins or Mr. Hutton. I feel I haven't missed anything. Life goes on.

Brutus| 2.23.09 @ 3:30PM

Dr. Right, I'm with you, but that knife cuts both ways.

The older I get, the more thoughtfully and discerningly conservative I get, with one result being my lack of interest in seeing the latest drivel coming out of Hollywood. But when an opportunity for your "..50% of the movie-going public (that) is conservative.." comes along to prove themselves so, they drop the ball.

I saw "An American Carol" on opening weekend for that very purpose. A funny movie with truly hilarious moments, though it might have used some better writing. It was a hoot watching libtards' talking points and sacred cows getting gored (no pun intended).

When I last checked the stats, An American Carol's box office had yet to cover the cost of making the movie. Opportunity missed.

Dustoff| 2.23.09 @ 3:41PM

Hey Doc.

I'm with you. Most movies out there just stink!

One nice thing. The lib movies about Iraq suffered bad at the movies.

Doctor Right| 2.23.09 @ 3:46PM

Brutus,

I agree completely. I think that when the rare "conservative" movie comes along ("Expelled"; "American Carol"; Fireproof"), we should support it.

In that regard, and maybe I'm getting alittle too ambitious, "Fireproof" has proven that we don't even NEED Hollywood. There's no reason that an alternative film industry couldn't be started somewhere in the USA that is funded by conservatives.

Would the production values be a liitle less than what we're used to from Hollywood? Undoubtedly, at first. Would the acting be "up to par"? Depends on who you ask...Personally (not that anyone really cares), I don't think much of a lot of the over-used has-beens in Hollywood, so I wouldn't mind some fresh faces.

But your post points to another issue that we simply MUST change if we're to overcome the Socialism in this country - ACTIVISM! Traditionally, we conservatives have not been the most strident activists. For one reason, we're too busy working, raising our families, and making the country function. But the second is more internal. Unlike the average leftist, we're not narcissists. We're not comfortable doing street-corner, theatre protests while screaming for attention and demanding kudos for supporting fashionable causes.

While we can overlook the narcissism, we can't overlook the activism. I've said it befrore, and I'll say it again, we need a tumultuous decade of our own - another 60's, if you will - to make painfully clear that we're tired of being rolled.

Imagine 1 million conservatives from the "Producing class" (I'm also a recent convert to class warfare - with a twist) converging on the mall in Washington and angrily demanding tax REAL tax cuts ("No tax cuts, NO peace!"), and you'll get what I mean.

But first, let's bury the Hollywood left.

Sarah| 2.23.09 @ 4:30PM

It's frightening how small-minded and bitter you people are. Your grandchildren WILL be ashamed when they realize that you stood in the way of EQUAL rights. And as for Susan Hart's ranting about the abortion issue...get over it, Ms. Hart. I'm sure you are just fine with the death penalty though, right? And I'm sure you also think Octomom is a saint. Pu-leeease. I'm so glad I'm on the right (left) side of these issues. You guys will be crying when Prop 8 is overturned very soon.

Rana| 2.23.09 @ 4:36PM

Why the HELL did he not thank his Wife who endures his S****T?
I was a big fan and today I am no longer can stand him

casey| 2.23.09 @ 4:38PM

It came as no surprise that this movie was recognized in Hollywood. It always seems to be attracted to the more anti-traditional, anti-American, anti-family, anti-values, victim-who-is-gay-or-a-minority of some sort. I am sick of it. It never ends, and each year it seems to get a little worse. Can anyone say "Brokeback Mountain" and "American Beauty," just to name a few truly horrible selections? I loathed the latter and refused to waste my precious time with the former trash. Right is called wrong and wrong is called right in these movies and heaven forbid you disagree.
So each year I boycott these nauseating, self-congratulating, empty, narcissistic fawning festivals put on by Hollywood and all their hangers on. This year only confirms I continue doing so.
And come on, Sean Penn? Harvey Milk? Yeah, no thanks; that tells me enough right there.

Dustoff| 2.23.09 @ 5:03PM

Sarah
You guys will be crying when Prop 8 is overturned very soon.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I would not hold your breath.

PS... people on both the left & right voted for prop 8.

casey| 2.23.09 @ 5:09PM

Susan Hart:

I agree completely.

Red Phillips| 2.23.09 @ 5:16PM

Fireproof and Expelled were excellent movies, but American Carol was neoconservative, pro-war propaganda. We most certainly do not need conservatism to continue to be associated with mindless militarism. That has already cost us. Non-interventionism is the truly conservative foreign policy. I agree that we need to bypass Hollywood.

Sarah, it is morally illiterate to equate abortion with the death penalty. Grow up.

Chuck| 2.23.09 @ 5:31PM

I have to agree with most of you, that Sean Penn is an imbecile. But I have to disagree with you that he has never been in any decent movies. Woody Allen's The Sweet Lowdown was a good movie, and Sean Penn was good in it. The Mystic River, directed by clint Eastwood, was a decent movie, and Sean Penn was very good in it.

Just because they are morons, does not necessarily mean they have no talent. But I understand avoiding Sean Penn movies. I usually tend to avoid worrying baout actors' political views, because if I did, I would not be able to see anything. i am too much of afan of movies to do this. But Sean Penn is so over the top, that I too sometimes consider skipping his work.

Michele San Pietro| 2.23.09 @ 5:52PM

I think Sean Penn should be abolished, as well as the whole Hollywood. Here's something about America I just don't like.

Anthony| 2.23.09 @ 6:05PM

Sarah says it all folks: Frightening ,but she represents the leftist moral equilivancy in all its demented splendor. The killing of an innocent life, before it has a chance to enjoy his/her promise of life, with no say,no protector, no advocate, is compared to the punishment of an adult, who has committed heinous crime(s) that have resulted, usually, in the taking of one or more lives. What twisted minds Sarah & friends have. Hey Sarah, how many innocent lives have been deprived of their ability to respond to your stupidity tonight? God help you.

Tim| 2.23.09 @ 6:06PM

Sarah,
Talk about bitter, Did you really listen to Sean Penn last night.

It's one thing to disagree with one's point of view but he stands up in front of a billion people world wide and says that people who vote to secure marriage for a man and a women should be ashamed of themselves....as if we are supporting something evil like abolishing talk radio or putting people in ovens.

The only thing Penn didn't say was that we defenders of traditional marriage will burn in hell.....but he should have said it and come all the way out of his bitter, America hating closet.

blackirishblonde| 2.23.09 @ 6:40PM

It has bothered me since watching the Oscars last night about "Milk". I remember when this happened. My husband is also a Vietnam Veteran, and no one seems to remember who Dan White really was. I will not see the movie because I do not care for Sean Penn, so I don't know how Dan White's character in the movie was portrayed, but knowing how things can be twisted, I decided to find out for myself.
Daniel James White was born in San Francisco, the second of ten children. He was raised by working class parents in a Roman Catholic household. He attended Riordan High School.He enlisted in the Army in 1965 and served in the Vietnam War as a paratrooper before being discharged in 1972 and returning to San Francisco to work as a police officer. He later worked as a firefighter.
In 1977, White was elected to the San Francisco Board of Supervisors from District 8, which included several neighborhoods near the southeastern limits of San Francisco. At this time, supervisors were elected by district and not "at large," as they had been before and would be again in the 1980s and '90s. He had strong support from the police and firefighter's unions. His district was described by the New York Times as "a largely white, middle-class section that is hostile to the growing homosexual community of San Francisco. As a supervisor, Mr. White made it clear that he saw himself as the board's defender of the home,the family and religious life against homosexuals, pot smokers and cynics."
White was initially on civil terms with Milk and supported some of his political initiatives. After the two had a falling out over a land zoning matter, however, White frequently clashed with Milk and other members of the board. On November 10, 1978, White resigned his seat as supervisor. As reasons, he cited his dissatisfaction with the corrupt inner-workings of San Francisco city politics, as well as the difficulty in making a living without a police officer's or firefighter's salary, neither of which jobs he could legally hold while serving as supervisor. He had opened a potato restaurant at Pier 39, which had failed to become profitable. On November 14, however, he reversed his position after his supporters lobbied him to withdraw his resignation and seek reappointment from San Francisco mayor George Moscone.Moscone initially agreed to White's request, but later refused the reappointment at the urging of Milk and others who felt White was resisting their progressive agenda. On November 27, 1978, White went to San Francisco City Hall to meet with Moscone and make a final plea to get his job back. He arrived that day carrying a loaded gun, with 10 extra rounds of ammunition, and sneaked into the building through a window, thereby circumventing the metal detectors of the recently installed security system, which would have prevented him from entering city hall with a loaded gun. Upon entering Moscone's office, White began to plead to be reinstated as a supervisor, but Moscone turned down his request. White responded to this by shooting and killing Moscone. White then reloaded his weapon and walked over to Milk's office and shot him five times, killing him; he fired the final shot at very close range. He then fled City Hall and turned himself in at the Northern Police Station where he had been an officer. White recorded a tearful confession, stating, "I just shot him."
White served five years of his seven-year sentence at Soledad State prison and was paroled January 6, 1984. Fearing he might be murdered in retaliation for his crimes, California State Corrections Officials secretly transported him to Los Angeles, where he served a year's parole. White's release prompted another round of demonstrations; protesters still outraged by the brevity of his sentence publicly ate Twinkies, implying that they themselves might not be responsible for any violence they engaged in. After satisfying the terms of his parole, White indicated he wanted to return to his lifelong home of San Francisco; this prompted Mayor Diane Feinstein who feared for her safety, to issue a public statement formally asking White not to return. Nevertheless, White did move back to San Francisco,where all of his extended family lived and attempted to restore his life with his wife and children. His marriage soon disintegrated.
On October 21, 1985, less than two years after his release from prison, White committed suicide by carbon monoxide poisoning in his garage by running a garden hose from the exhaust pipe to the inside of his car. White had been listening to a recording of Paddy Reilly's rendition of "The Town I Loved So Well" on the car's cassette player. White's body was discovered by his brother, Thomas, shortly before 2 p.m. The same day.
White was buried at Golden Gate National Cemetery in San Bruno California, with a traditional Government-furnished headstone issued to war veterans. He was survived by his wife Mary Ann, two sons (7 and 4 years old), and an infant daughter.

ruth| 2.23.09 @ 7:13PM

Sorry, when I see the little commie, I see Spicoli. Like, gnarly, dude!

ruth| 2.23.09 @ 7:25PM

Sarah eloquently stated, "...Your grandchildren will be ashamed that you stood in the way of EQUAL rights (for gays), and "...about the abortion issue, get over it." Great juxtaposition; the sheer stupidity of liberals leaves me at a loss for words. Oh, about the death penalty, Sarah, nice comparison of preborn babies to serial killers. Can anyone say publik skool education?

Gene S.| 2.23.09 @ 7:36PM

to blackirishblonde: a lot of impressive research...but what exactly is your point?

blackirishblonde| 2.23.09 @ 8:12PM

I don't believe that Dan White killed Harvey Milk because he hated gays. I don't believe that Harvey Milk was some sort of heroe. I think it was a terrible thing that Dan White did.I believe Dan White ultimately felt used and manipulated by forces he could not understand, a changing way of life around him, he could not understand. I also believe Dan White suffered from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. However, back in 1978 PTSD was still not a recognized medical condition. I didn't see the movie, but I'm sure his Vietnam service was never discussed.

carlos alexandre| 2.23.09 @ 8:21PM

Adorei a vitória de Sean Penn e especialmente seus comentários sobre a Proposição 8. O filme Milk mostrou para o mundo que nem todos são reacionários e homofóbicos como a maioria aqui.

Tim| 2.23.09 @ 9:04PM

Sean Penn es un Perro!

CARPE CURSUM

Liz O'D| 2.23.09 @ 10:23PM

Hollywood is a cesspoll of arrogant hypocrites. Penn has a lot of nerve insulting those who have different opinions and beliefs.
He has no problem kissing up to dictators who hate the U.S. and who would never tolerate any gay relationships.
I try not to contribute any money to the Hollywood crowd - don't go to movies, get dvds for free at the library. The disgraceful hateful things that were said in the election by people like Sarah Bernhardt, Bill Maher, Letterman, etc., should tell you a lot!
Penn proved that actors can not speak unless someone else writes a script for them.

ruth| 2.23.09 @ 10:54PM

I think we just got cursed out in Spanish. Well, I say, "Kiss it," in Inglesa.

Chris Odom| 2.23.09 @ 11:46PM

Who the hell is Sean Penn and why the hell does anyone care?

vin| 2.23.09 @ 11:54PM

"Was there really any doubt that Sean Penn would win the Oscar for "Milk"?"

"I actually thought Mickey Rourke was a shoo-in. This was definitely a political vote by the Academy. "

Whats tougher in your opinion:
1. To be a down and out performer that plays the role of a down and out performer

2. To be a straight male with a history of being rough around the edges that plays the role of a gay bank executive turned politician?

Look, we all have our own opinions. We are all entitled to express them. I think it would do us some good to zoom out. gain some perspective. Gay people have been around just as long as straight people. Back in the day it was the "in" thing to hate Jews. Then it was the "in" thing to hate blacks. Then it wasn't OK to hate, but it was ok to separate. 'I'll listen to your music and sing your song, but I would rather eat in a restaurant with a Nazi than you.' Now, it's the "in" thing to talk about gay people and how they should live their lives. They aren't hurting anyone. Open up your minds, focus on the religious brainwashing that has happened to you over the years. Religion is probably the longest purveyor of war in the history of the world. Hatred going so far back that you don't even know where it comes from. Let it go, focus on tomorrow. Focus on the REAL problems... like the kids who have been brought into this world that no one cares about. Squabbling over power, land, and religious ideals is like fleas arguing over who owns the dog.

ruth| 2.24.09 @ 12:01AM

Is the day far off when our priests, reverends and preachers are jailed for 'hate speech' because they have spoken out against homosexuality from the pulpit? That's what this is all about, and it upsets me.

ruth| 2.24.09 @ 12:09AM

Vin, atheists such as: Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler, Castro, etc. took the big prize for multiple mass murders and atrocities in the twentieth century, remember? Not a God fearing Christian in the bunch. Give credit where credit is due.

Greg| 2.24.09 @ 3:02AM

Vin, good try douche. But why should gay people be accepted? Because they've "been around as long as straight people?" So. Murderers have been around since the beginning of humankind. So have thiefs, rapists, and people who assault/abuse.

Homosexuality is a morally repugnant lifestyle CHOICE that has turned once-decent cities (San Fransyphillis, parts of New York) into disease-ridden cess pools. And morons like Sean Penn have the gall to stand up and lecture US?

"Squabbling over land, power, and religious ideas..." This nation was founded by men with strong moral convictions, men with strong beliefs in God. 19th century westward expansion, a push for more "land" and "power" helped establish a nation large enough to support major immigration/population growth, the land for farming to adequately supply the population, and the wealth to help build up a strong enough military that won us WWII.

Worrying about "discriminated" "gays" never provided anything for this nation. Its time we say enough is enough and send the homosexual mafia back where it belongs.

amanda hill| 2.24.09 @ 3:11AM

Vin, you are the first voice of sanity in this steaming pile of conservative manure the American Spectator calls comments. I am a New Zealander and have never been prouder of my country than the day I had a civil union with my partner. The sheer hate emanating from these pages is frightening. We have our Harvey Milks here - but they were never assassinated. They have lived long and happy lives and are recognised, formally and informally, as people who have made long-lasting and important contributions to our society.

America is no leader of nations. It is a sad, broken, angry place that has suffered pointless wars and endless, weary debate about who it is and what it wants as a country.

Milk gives me hope that one day the bulk of your population wakes up, looks around and realises that humanity comes first - sexual orientation, political views, race, ethnicity, gender - are all wonderful additions to a diverse and beautiful world.

People who blame homosexuals for the problems in the world have no desire to look for solutions. Get some perspective, conservative America. And good on Sean Penn for speaking out - too few straight people are prepared to put themselves on the line for others. He is a truly genuine man.

Rob| 2.24.09 @ 3:39AM

In 50 years, history will look back on people like Greg above the way that history looks back on the racists during segregation.

But I understand Greg's anger. It must be frustrating to know you're going to be on the losing side of history.

Richard Cummings| 2.24.09 @ 11:17AM

This review is spot on. There were great German artists who became Nazis, but their art remained sublime. Milk, as a work of art, succeeds admirably. The script is crisp, the direction almost perfect. Most of all, it is not only Penn's performance that is nothing short of spectacular. This is an ensemble piece, in which the casting was brilliant. I commend people on the right such as James Bowman, who appreciate art for art's sake, Oscar Wilde's position. Should we banish "The Importance of Being Earnest" because of its gay subtext? Most of the responses to the review and to the film strike me as immature. My advice is to lighten up.

Kat| 2.24.09 @ 11:51AM

Leave it to a smug, snotty New Zealander, whose selfish country has never done a thing to help others, to lecture us.

vin| 2.24.09 @ 12:09PM

Greg,

Thank you for responding to my post. I'm interested in hearing more about what you think. I will say this: it sounds like you are still learning. My point is to simply refrain from the negative energy. Hold onto your opinion, but keep gaining perspective. As much as it might annoy you, put yourself in the shoes of another and see how your ideals stand to that test. But keep in mind, there is no need for anger or belittling comments. In any issue I think it's important to define the extremes... and then work toward points of common ground. No doubt, defining the extremes with others who may disagree with you is a challenge. But it does help to find the common ground.

Ruth,
I'm not sure if Sean Penn should have used the opportunity to speak out for gay rights. At least, he shouldnt have fanned the flame by insulting those who don't support gay marriage. The movie says enough. He could just accept the award and move on. Let me make it clear that I believe most Christians are good. There have been a few priests who abused their power AND participated in homosexuality. BUT those are a few rotten apples that need not spoil the whole bunch. In any group, there will be people at the top that abuse their power.

Here's the point. It's not religion, politics, business that are flawed. It's HUMAN beings that are flawed. Let's open ourselves up to where we as individuals may be flawed and move to correct those flaws.

We don't need to agree on everything, but we do need to learn from the past in order to have a better future.

Also Ruth,
I really appreciate your response because I went to one extreme, and you took it to the other extreme by bringing up Hitler, Stalin etc. Now, we can go forward and clarify what bothers us on the issue. I'll start by saying that I agree with you... I do not think christians against gay marriage are anywhere near in comparision to Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler, Castro.

I'll be honest again, I don't understand why gay marriage is such a big deal. Why people hate it so much. I'll admit that I don't fully see it as "right". But that's just because I grew up around married men and women. And now, that I'm older and aware that the world is bigger than the small town I grew up in, I don't see gay marriage as "wrong" either. To tell you the truth, I've never met an unfriendly gay person. Also, my girlfriend recently moved into a neighborhood with a large gay community. Probably the safest place in the city too.

Honestly, we should be more worried about what humans will do when the Sun blows up. The Sun is a star. When stars die, they blow up. The Earth will be destroyed. SO, lets get everyone together, shut up about who's marrying who, and figure out how to build a bigass spaceship.

On that note Greg:
For example. Say you have a chance to be on that ship, it'll save your life, but you can't fly it yourself. You need one other person to fly you out of here. 1 person is straight and inexperienced. The other is gay and a top NASA pilot. It's an extreme example, but its one that will make you think. I don't need your answer. I just ask that you think about it, or find a similar example of your own. Since you called me a douche, it's the least you can do. Also, let's be clear that this land was founded by revolutionaries. People that didn't want to pay taxes. People that went against their political leaders. And by the way, EVERYONE believes in god. They just have different names for him/her/them. Study religion and you will see the similarities in each one. There is more than one way to life.

ruth| 2.24.09 @ 12:22PM

Yes, but I went to the extreme for a purpose, and that was to call you out on your Christian bigotry.

vin| 2.24.09 @ 12:23PM

Kat,

I suggest you take a trip around the world and talk to people. See what they really think of the US. That might show you what's really going on in this country of ours.

vin| 2.24.09 @ 12:31PM

Ruth,

Please re-read my response, think about it for a month. Then come back and talk to me about purpose and call me a bigot if you still feel that way.

ruth| 2.24.09 @ 1:21PM

I thought your first remark was bigoted until you clarified it. I understand your position, do you understand mine?

vin| 2.24.09 @ 3:05PM

Yes, I think so... that we shouldn't go so far as to persecute relgious leaders for promoting their religion. Is that correct?

I remember talking with a foreigner about life in the US and how he feels bringing up his children with conflicting sets of values. He said, "Although there is conflict, there are good parts on each side."

Also, I think the only constant thing in life is that everything changes. When a human's core belief is challenged , it's an opportunity to evolve.

I guess I'm more of a liberal on issues like gay rights and abortion. But I have to be honest and say that there are a lot of obnoxious liberals out there. For example, if I didn't agree with Bill Maher on issues, he would really annoy me.

ruth| 2.24.09 @ 3:23PM

Yes, but not just religious leaders, all of us. I don't think private behavior is my business, but I become alarmed when my children are being indoctrinated in the schools and the threat of persecution for my religious beliefs is possible. This is already happening in Canada. I don't hate anybody.

Greg| 2.24.09 @ 6:52PM

Vin--Homosexuality has never been deemed a "normal" behavior. Disease rates are higher in the gay community. No major religion on Earth accepts homosexuality. It is unnatural. I could go on and on.

"Religion is probably the longest purveyor of war in the history of the world. Hatred going so far back that you don't even know where it comes from. "

Its tough to find "middle ground" when you purvey garbage like this. But lets agree to this. You can call me "homophobic" or "anti-gay" ...which represents (at best) 5% of the world. Fine, I'm "discriminating" 5% of the world. But using YOUR OWN WORDS, religion (and supposedly its followers) which represents over 5 BILLION people is no good. Who's the bigot?

amanda hill--don't lecture US about "gay rights." You live in a 3rd rate country the size of Kentucky. We've won 2 world wars. If our center-right country doesn't want morally bankrupt behavior shoved down our throats we won't put up with it. Go produce something for the world instead of sheep ranching.

vin| 2.24.09 @ 11:20PM

Greg, take it easy on Amanda Hill... based on the last 8 years, she isn't totally off point. Sure, America has a bright history, but right now, the world is watching us. and its up to me, you, the other people on this board, and everyone else in the country to win them back over.

And just to clarify, Religion can be a very positive thing. It's a sense of community. The problems arise when one community's beliefs conflict with the belief's of another community. Or if there is dissension within a community. And those conflicts escalate. I'm merely saying that humans, nature, evolves. Religions that reach too far and set too many rules can create angry and confused people. (cough GREG cough) Take the good. Use what works. Use it to make better communities.

Here's a very basic point: whether you discriminate against 1% or 100%, you are still discriminating.

And Greg, if you have a problem with gay people so be it. Maybe you'll experience a paradigm shift at some point.

The problem with you is not that you are homophobic or anti-gay... that is not a problem at all. The problem is that you are a jerkoff. Not the first one I 've encountered, and won't be the last.

Frosty| 2.24.09 @ 11:26PM

Uh, Vin, I think Greg called you a jerkoff first. He was right.

vin| 2.24.09 @ 11:41PM

haha. so what does that make you

Frosty| 2.25.09 @ 2:00AM

Smarter than you, liberal loser. Now, sit quietly, contemplate your navel and EVOLVE. LOL

vin| 2.25.09 @ 12:05PM

evolving... and moving on... have a good one

vin| 2.25.09 @ 12:08PM

btw Greg, i think Frosty thinks you are cute

Frosty| 2.25.09 @ 2:28PM

Your gay pride parade is starting, Vin, strap on those kneepads.

Flu-Bird| 3.4.09 @ 4:11PM

What a stupid idea a holiday for HARVEY MILK thats just what we need another stupid PC holiday for sime freak jerk liberal SEAN PENN is a stupid annoying liberal jerk and i,ll never ever watch any of his stupid putrid movies their nothing but junk

Flu-Bird| 3.5.09 @ 1:50AM

How about if we have a holiday for real american heros like DOUGLAS McARTHER,ROBERT E. LEE how about if we returned to celbration GEORGE WASHINGTON and ABRAHAM LINCOLN birthdays seperatly like we once did why should we be clebrating these birthdays for CEASAR CHAVEZ and why should we ever bother celbrating CINO DEMAYO its not our holiday and KWANZAA there is no such a celebration as that SCREW SEAN PENN,SCREW HARVY MILK SCREW LIBERALS

mjn| 3.11.09 @ 5:47PM

Seem to recall that Harvey Milk protected Jim Jones by (verbally) attacking the families of Jones' cult members when said families tried to rescue their loved ones...was that in the movie?

klm| 3.12.09 @ 3:06AM

blackirishblonde| 2.23.09 @ 6:40PM -- yes, White's Vietnam service was mentioned briefly in passing. It's a tragedy that good people got sucked in to that misguided war. The film (Milk) does, in my viewing, represent White as being motivated by politics, not sexual orientation.

ruth| 2.24.09 @ 12:01AM asks, "Is the day far off when our priests, reverends and preachers are jailed for 'hate speech' because they have spoken out against homosexuality from the pulpit?" -- Yes, Ruth, that day is very, very far off, except in the minds of people who inflate their sense of self-importance by imagining that they're persecuted.

To those who think discriminating against gays is ok because "gay sex is gross", or whatever: hey, to me, the thought of fat people having sex is repugnant, so I just don't think about it. And I don't think it gives me an excuse to limit their civil rights, or their rights to express themselves in public in exactly the same ways that anyone else is allowed to.

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I would like to go a little off course here and bring up a historic event which I feel has some bearing to the current issue of returning veterans and PTSD. The recent biopic "Milk" is bringing this sad event back into the public consciousness. But, as usual, Hollywood does not tell the complete story of what really happened. As I myself was living in the Bay Area at the time these events occurred, I'd like to offer some facts that were left out of this movie, and how this tragedy gives a warning to all of us who care about our returning vets.

To begin with, I will say here and now that this in no way is a justification or apology for Dan White's actions. He did indeed commit an act of cold blooded murder. This was a heinous crime by any description, and he quite rightfully deserved to be punished for his actions. But using homophobia as a justification is just too pat and simple, for the facts of who Dan White really was do not bear this out. What is not well known among the many "firsts" that the previous SF Board of Supes election brought was the first Vietnam Veteran to sit on that body- Dan White. He had been a squad leader in the 101st Airborne Division during its first deployment to Vietnam, and had been involved in the unit's first actions in the Central Highlands, where he received the Bronze Star for bravery under fire. After being honorably discharged with the rank of Sergeant, Dan White did what so many other combat vets do today, he joined the ranks of law enforcement.
While on the San Francisco police, he gained a reputation for bravery and a sense of fairness.
It is said that he resigned from the force over the beating of an elderly black woman by a fellow officer. Following a brief interval, he became a firefighter like his father before him, and again served with distinction and won many awards. He was well known and liked in his Excelsior neighborhood, and had married a school teacher, with a baby on the way. Quite an admirable man in many ways.

But than he made the mistake which ultimately cost him his life, namely, his decision to enter politics. White felt he had a duty to represent the interests of his neighborhood, even while he had no political experience at all. A friend of mine who has held local office once told me that the one skill you must have to succeed in politics is mastering the art of negotiation. Unfortunately, Dan White's background had not prepared him for this. Being raised a moralistic Irish Catholic, who had served in professions where there was very little ambiguity, did not suit Dan White well for the requirements of his job. He took people at their word, and was personally outraged when fellow board members reneged on promises they had made, including fellow Supervisor Harvey Milk.
At first, White and Milk, ( Who was himself a Navy vet.), got on quite well. They were in fact such good friends that Dan White even invited his colleague to the baptism of his child. But over time, while Harvey Milk's political star rose, Dan White's fell. Further, he had begun to experience growing financial problems, as his salary did not adequately provide enough income for his growing family. Dan White ultimately felt used and manipulated by forces he could not understand. With pressures growing around him, he publically resigned his office in protest.

Something that is not well known is that those who personally knew Dan White tell of his unpredictable mood swings and fits of temper. During his last months on the board, he would stare out into space, often not cognizant of events happening around him. He began to feel paranoid, that he could not trust anyone, and began to act increasingly irrational. Dan White was indeed losing his grip on reality, but he and those around him did not know why. The anecdotal evidence of his mood swings, irrational behavior, personal rigidity, and of putting himself at continual physical risk, make it reasonable to believe that Dan White suffered from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. However, back in 1978 PTSD was still not a recognized medical condition, and as a result wasn’t even considered during testimony of the subsequent trial. After serving his sentence, Dan White returned back to his home town, but could still find no way to exorcize the monster that plagued him. And tragically, like so many other combat vets, he ultimately took his own life by asphyxiation in his garage. He now rests in Golden Gate Memorial Cemetery, hopefully and finally finding peace. Daniel James White had a great many demons inside him, but it was something he just could not understand or accept, and it cost him his life and legacy.

I will state here that the Moscone / Milk murders were a case of Vietnam coming back home to haunt us. What this sad tale bears on today is that our society still will not recognize that returning veterans are pressured to hide their past, to stuff it down and get over it. But, as we see with Dan White, not recognizing the monster that dwells inside oneself can and will lead to one's own destruction. While there are many veterans who have served their country in elected office, (Jim Webb, Max Cleland and John McCain come to mind.), other vets are, by nature of their temperament and experience, not well suited for an active civic life. In the words of one of his friends: "The Dan White I knew was a class act, but he did not belong in City Hall". The changed nature of perceptions that occurs from PTSD makes one look at politics as an absurd fraud, and politicians themselves to be morally reprehensible creatures. With the increasing betrayals of our veterans by those in power, this is a potential for disaster that I feel the public must be cognizant of, if we are to prevent events like this from ever happening again. I will finish this story by saying that, if America had treated its Vietnam Veterans with the help and dignity they deserved, than Harvey Milk, George Moscone, and Dan White would all be very much alive today.

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Eleni Xanthopoulou| 1.6.12 @ 1:24PM

I loved this film!

Theo Alexander| 1.6.12 @ 2:33PM

Gay Rights activist Harvey Milk was first documented in 1984, in the Oscar winning Times of Harvey Milk. This documentary was also loosely based on a biography written by Randy Shilts called The Mayor of Castro. Other than this, Harvey Milk has generally stayed out of the public eye. Various movie scripts have been passed around for years – as early as the early 1990’s – but continued to fall through until Milk came out in 2007.

Sean Penn was given the role of Harvey Milk and on hearing this, I immediately sought it out. Under Gus Van Sant’s direction, Sean Penn would play the activist with conviction and elegance. If this wasn’t enough, a talented and young supporting cast, including James Franco and Emile Hirsch confirmed Milk as essential viewing.

The film opens with the announcement of the assassination of Harvey Milk and George Moscone. The film then shows Harvey, recording his will, pre-assassination. From then on, the film cuts back and forth. It goes back to Milk’s 40th birthday, his move from New York to San Francisco and his ever-increasing activity in politics and gay rights, while intertwining with the recording of his will. The film delves into the transformation of Eureka Valley – a working class neighbourhood in San Francisco which slowly becomes the gay district known as ‘The Castro’, Milk’s involvement as a politician and revolutionary, and the nature of his various romantic and political relationships throughout the last ten years of his life.

Marking an important historical event and an inspirational rebellion, Milk has become, and will remain a highly relevant and influential piece of modern cinema. While it recaptures a time, a place and a generation beautifully, it functions to remind us that San Francisco came alive with flare and colour at a certain moment in a time come and gone.

And that is, perhaps, what strikes you the hardest. The very essence of this astonishing era, an era seeping with freedom and possibility is realised through this film and found for just a few hours. The filmmakers carried out extensive research, looking into San Francisco’s Gay and Lesbian archives, and talking to people who knew Milk and interacted with him personally. This, I think, really helped them in forming their own idea of the time and finding the best way to represent it. The film was filmed in the city, on Castro Street, and in and around the ‘dressed up’ location of Harvey’s original camera shop.

Sean Penn plays Harvey with charm, power and an almost childlike demeanour which moves towards the humorous – he takes the viewer under his wing and straight into the revolution with vigour, smiles and spirit. I’d like to say that he was the right choice but when isn’t he? James Franco was appropriately cast as Harvey Milk’s young lover and campaign manager, Scott Smith, and Josh Brolin played convincingly as conservative politician and ‘closet homosexual’ Dan White. Milk also stars Emile Hirsch, Diego Luna, and Allison Pill.

Though primarily a political drama, focusing on the activist’s city politics and his political wars within San Francisco and namely the Castro Neighbourhood, the film also looks into his romantic and political relationships, which form and change throughout the film. Milk is made up of many, many layers, all of which move the viewer with a tremendous force. By the time it ends, you are left in your seat with open eyes, wishing that maybe, you could have been there, or anywhere – somewhere that you might, at some point, feel something happening.

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