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Buy the Book
The Not So Greatest Generation
The Dumbest Generation: How the Digital Age Stupefies Young
Americans and Jeopardizes Our Future (Or, Don't Trust Anyone
Under 30)
By Mark Bauerlein
(Tarcher, 272 pages, $24.95)
With his soft voice and unassuming manner, Mark Bauerlein seems an unlikely prospect for penning an ostentatious book like The Dumbest Generation. The title immediately brings to mind the Greatest Generation, the idol of 20th century American history that weathered the Great Depression, beat the Nazis at Normandy, and brought us swing music. But the generation that Bauerlein writes of is very different. Ignorant of politics and government, art and music, prose and poetry, the Dumbest Generation is content to turn up its iPods and tune out the realities of the adult world. It is brash, pampered, young, and dumb -- and content to stay that way.
Or so argues Bauerlein, an Emory University English professor and baby boomer. It would be an easy accusation for my generation (I'm 23) to ignore. After all, the fogies have always railed against the ignorance and excesses of youth. What's the point of reading a book or going to a museum in the age of Wikipedia? Why bother knowing who the Speaker of the House is or voting for president when the only vote that matters is the hit count on my latest YouTube video? Being able to locate Mexico on a world map or name the Axis powers during World War II won't help me score a date on Friday night or get tapped for the high school football team.
But something is different this time. In past generations, the young had fewer opportunities to fritter away their lives. Two-parent households and a generally religious culture made sure of it. Today, half of teens grow up in single-parent households and secularism dominates society. Undergirding that is the digital culture, the 24/7 rush of information and entertainment that young adults thrive on. Bauerlein says it's a rush that's killing their intellectual development.
In mid-November, I attended a lecture at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill where Bauerlein made that argument. Dressed in a dark gray suit, white shirt, and loosened necktie, he looked the picture image of the disheveled academic. He paced back and forth, gesturing mildly as he spoke against the evils of iPods and "texting."
Out of 30,000 students enrolled UNC-Chapel Hill, about 30 bothered to show up for the talk. (I'm sure the rest were busy on Facebook.) During the question and answer, several students took umbrage at the book's premise. "Your title is offensive," said one. A moment later, the student admitted that he hadn't read the book. Far from delivering a coup de grâce, he showed that even when my generation sets out to slay the establishment giants, we often don't do our homework.
Speaking of homework, teens spend twice as much time in front of the boob tube as they do completing school assignments, according to a study Bauerlein refers to in the book. The citation is one of many he uses to build his case against the encroaching evils of the digital world. Given the evidence, it's not a hard case to make. When a higher percentage of students can name the Three Stooges than the three branches of government, something is amiss.
Bauerlein points to reading apathy as a major contributing factor. One study found that 18- to 24-year-olds are the least active, least avid reading group in the country except for those 75 and older (who probably suffer from age-related ailments that make reading difficult to begin with). High school and college students have time to read -- another study found that they average five and a half hours of leisure time per day -- but they choose less intellectually stimulating avenues of entertainment. In fact, the average teen now dedicates the equivalent of a full-time job to media. "It isn't enough to say that these young people are uninterested in world realities. They are actively cut off from them," Bauerlein writes.
But are the gadgets themselves the culprit? That brings up the Achilles' heel of Bauerlein's argument. His diagnosis of the problem -- a generation drowned in a media tsunami -- could not be timelier. His explanation for its media obsession, however, is off base. He says technology "conspires against young people in their intellectual development," as if iPods, laptops, and cell phones had moral cognition. Yet these entertainment mediums are just that -- mediums that can be used for either good or evil. How an individual chooses to use the tool is the moral question, not the tool itself.
Also missing from Bauerlein's analysis of youthful stupidity is the bedrock of civilization, the family. That's a staggering omission considering the body of social science research linking the demise of the American family with academic decline and social ills. The closest Bauerlein gets to fingering lack of parental oversight is his chapter devoted to disappearing mentors. Even here, though, his focus is on the "custodians of culture…the teachers, professors, writers, journalists, intellectuals, editors, librarians, and curators who will not insist upon the value of knowledge and tradition." Mom and dad are not mentioned.
For all its shortcomings, The Dumbest Generation still makes a vital point about young peoples' reliance on media to do their thinking for them. The 2008 election cycle is the most recent example. Young voters went for Barack Obama by wide margins, yet many of them could not justify their vote beyond Obama's "cool" factor.
That's the most ominous implication of Bauerlein's findings. An uneducated citizenry is handy for ambitious politicians but disastrous for the welfare of a republic. At best, the Dumbest Generation might be remembered as useful idiots. At worst, as Bauerlein puts it, it could be remembered as the generation that lost the great American heritage, forever.
Comments
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DM| 1.15.09 @ 7:12AM
Wikipedia is actually somewhat of a counterexample to these allegations that people don't read. It's actually millions of page of text, with almost no video or sound, and a moderate quantity of images. It's written mostly in a drab, austere, tone, and its articles frequently use "complicated" words and concepts.
Anyone who can read to the end
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_France
must not be THAT stupid.
blackelkspeaks| 1.15.09 @ 9:31AM
As a computer services and telecommunications network contractor for many local school districts over the past few decades, I have noted this phenomenon well. I have also had numerous discussions with "educators" about the malign influence of technology on the academic experience. They would not agree, although I have pointed out numerous examples of the loss of critical intellectual discrimination in their students. I agree that technology can be a wonderful thing. But only if it is applied and used properly. The advent of ubiquitous video has destroyed the interest of most children to read; it seems better to them to become familiar with story lines from the old literary canon via movies, if even that. And the unfettered exposure to the internet, via disconnected and disjointed hyperlinks, is not helpful, resulting in a confusion of young people today that is risable. Access to voluminous sources of archived data via the web does no good if the web surfer is too ignorant to ascertain the validity and merit of the data source. The unreflective minds of mush that have elevated Hussein, the destroyer of liberty, to POTUS is truly a frightening example of GIGO in action. Don' t look to the academics or educators to stop this trend, though. Post-modern Communists all, they are themselves primarily responsible for killing the ability of their students to think logically, form rational arguments, and develop personal discipline. If this Republic is to survive, we must all pull the plug on this looming evil, and return to the days of the Trivium and Quadrivium.
Don't hold your breath for that to happen...
Appleby| 1.15.09 @ 11:03AM
The only saving grace of the iPod/iPhone/Binkie Generation is that, because it has its head down twiddling its thumbs on a Binkie while driving, walking, riding a bicycle or most recently while driving an AMTRAK train, or its ears are blocked by its Binkie cranked up to 11, a large percentage of it will be killed off before it reaches an age where it is likely to do us serious harm.
The downside is, like the train engineer who was texting a 14 year old girl when he ran head on into another train, they will probably take a good many of us with them.
In my company we older folks look forward to the day when the Binkie Generation realizes that its Young Cool Hip Hottie secretaries cannot save them from their ignorance the way their educated but uncool, unhip, adult secretaries are doing now. Generation Whine will find out that their GrabbyBaby secretary cannot read, write, spell, punctuate, or make any decisions on her own - and that she won't show up for work if she can possibly think of anything else to do. Our shorthand description of these Hottie Tots to Come is "She thinks LOL is a word."
Renee| 1.15.09 @ 12:47PM
Spot on! Bass dubs the Dumbest Generation useful idjits at best, while he sounds the alarm that in decades to come, this generation will be branded as having given the American republic over to a socialist state a la Obama.
Unfortunately, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree and the DGIs (Dumbest Generation Idjits) can give much credit for their stupidity to their own parents who, through vapid materialist narcissism, abandoned their kids in droves to media indoctrination rather than engage them through sound, intelligent teaching.
gregorbo| 1.15.09 @ 12:57PM
Does Bauerlein consider the Boomers' own role in the creation of this "dumbest" of generations? I gather from the article that he neglects to consider parents' roles here: after all, it is the Boomers who bequeathed to their children and their children's children the very devices with which they have been able to offload a sizable portion of their own brains.
Gerard E.| 1.15.09 @ 1:02PM
Professor Bauerlein- let me paraphrase the great social philosopher and ESPN Talking Head Lee Corso- not so fast, my friend. True, many of our young people are that intellectually vapid and obsessed with their own vanity technology. But may I finally point out- shame on you, TAS posters- that it is largely those of that generation who are bringing legitimate, lasting democracy to the Middle East. I speak, of course, of our remarkable young men and women in the armed forces. Let the New York Times rant about those few who have legitimately come apart after returning stateside. Let us commemorate the vast majority of them, doing wonderful work for the people of Iraq. Making friends with the people. Prov iding soccer balls and other good ol' American stuff to the kids. Taking out the legitimate bad guys in terrorist organizations. All without so much as a thank y0u from the 'chattering classes-' of which the good Professor is a dues-paying member. One historian, on a tour of the country, even speculated that these remarkable young military personnel- the backbone of the best trainined, best motivated, best everything fighting force in human history- will assume r0les of leadership in the decades to come. In any area of endeavor. One of them might even become the good Professor's department chair at UNC. Turnabout is delicious fair play.
Sean| 1.15.09 @ 1:36PM
I feel sad for the current generation. All these previous "Great Generations" are leaving them with eroded freedoms and huge debts.
Deborah| 1.15.09 @ 2:19PM
I found it interesting that the book's author neglected to mention the word "parents" as well. I guess he couldn't find it in him to point the finger at himself or the parents of the generation he calls "Dumbest." With both parents working, parenting falls to the gadgets and the media. That in and of itself is frightening.
However, with all that said, at age 21 or 22, I was too busy living my life and having fun to read newspapers or care about politics. I voted and did try to do reasonable research, but I ate up what was fed to me by the media even then. (I'm now the parent of a 25-year-old.)
His arguments about stupid people on the job are more relevant, and the lack of logical thinking skills leaves us wondering about the future of the country. Somewhere along the way, however, it's the parent who must challenge their child or expose him/her to that which might enrich their lives.
As Mr. Bass intimates, technology is neutral. It's the person, nurtured or not in the home that is problem.
Pat| 1.15.09 @ 2:23PM
Nice response to the "turn on, tune out" Woodstock generation, David Bass. There's no crime in being 23, but the Baby Boomers can't help envying you and then begin to hate you for being young when they're not. Despite facelifts, boob jobs, New Age philosophy, the Boomers are growing old - that wasn't supposed to happen. Since many Boomers believe in nothing beyond themselves, they're getting a little worried as the long night draws near. Dust to dust as Darwin would say, but what did it all mean? Camelot, "the revolution", "power to the people", "a new consciousness" - all that self-indulgent nonsense will pass away - blowing in the wind as their song said. What a pity, what a cosmic joke.
And the crime of excessive love for technology laid at your doorstep is a false indictment. Remember when modern chemistry gave us the Pill? What generation embraced that technology? And what happened as a result? There are a lot less Americans around to fund a glorious old age for the Boomers thanks to modern technology. What a shame these soon to be social security collecting, bingo playing Boomers won't enjoy their 5 star cruises, vacations in Europe, expensive medications.
And the tragedy unfortunately falls on folks like you, David Bass, who have to sustain these oldsters - you'll be fully supporting at least one retired Boomer soon, along with taking care of your own needs as you strive for economic survival within our global economy.
Take a page from the Boomers' book, start your own revolution, don't sacrifice your wealth for folks who were among the shallowest, silliest, most selfish of all the generations. Turn on your IPod and tune them out.
MattE| 1.15.09 @ 4:20PM
Very nice post. It is difficult to know the full effects of new technologies when they differ so much from previous ones. A late baby boomer myself, I recall sitting in my room with earphones connected to a turntable for hours. How exactly connecting to the internet conversing with friends is worse is not immediately clear. What might make more difference, however, is the quality of the institutions charged with herding awkward teens to adulthood. Conservatives, in particular, trust "the American People." As far as genetics are concerned, I don't see any important difference. What matters is the social milieu in which they are raised. In other words, we trust America's developmental institutions. It seems as though the decay of those institutions is far more important. Liberals own the media, academia, and in many cases and times, our political branches. Is the church challenging their monopoly effectively or merely grumbling while repeatedly ceding turf? Are voluntary charitable or fraternal organizations staking meaningful claims on internet attractions or are they comfortably receding into obscurity? Are new organizations rising to carve out relevance in the new domains of youth or are we simply tut-tutting to the tune of "The Way We Were?" All in all, if we don't re-engage the cultural battle on terms favorable to beneficial victory, liberals will consolidate more and more gains, making it even harder to fight back.
Frosty| 1.15.09 @ 5:25PM
Appleby, that train engineer you referred to was texting two teenage boys right before he collided head on with the other train.
Derrick| 1.15.09 @ 6:29PM
I am a proud 18 year old conservative who does know how to spell and use proper syntax. I know many people of my generation are stupid, but how anyone can say we are worse than a bunch of brain dead hippies? We maybe equally stupid, but not dumber.
Alan Brooks| 1.15.09 @ 7:46PM
the Old School didn't chatter quite as much. God bless 'em.
can we get some of Coolidge's DNA? we'll clone him and no one else-- exception to the rule.
David Govett| 1.15.09 @ 7:59PM
The 60s generation has bequeathed a wonderful opportunity to you, the current generation: So fight the second American Revolution to reclaim your freedoms from elders too fond by half of big government. Should be an easy victory since your elders have misplaced their spines.
sbgfkbfg| 1.15.09 @ 8:13PM
@ Derrick, self-professed proud young conservative who knows how to spell and use proper syntax:
might want to do a bit of self-editing there buddy before you go spouting off and proving bauerlein's point
"I know many people of my generation are stupid, but how anyone can say we are worse than a bunch of brain dead hippies?" - for this to make sense, you need "anyone" and "can" to switch places
also it's "brain-dead"
and it should be "may be" in your last sentence
i hope this critique helps you towards a more enlightened and realistic self-appraisal
bgt| 1.15.09 @ 8:29PM
Every generation, including the one that preceded the 'Greatest Generation,' is convinced that the current bunch is a group of crumbs, lazy, a step down.
iPods and video games aren't making people any stupider. In some cases, they are probably bringing people a greater range of stimulus and learning. But a culture of entitlement does make some people lazier, dumber and smugly satisfied with their own inwardness and ignorance. It's not the breakdown of the family so much as the breakdown of the value system.
I'm very much on the left wing, but I agree with Bass on the premise that the problem is cultural - people learn in this culture that being ignorant and uninformed is cool. Just ask any Tenth Grader in history how cool it is to read Shakespeare.
Blaming changes in family structures is plain dumb. If anything, my friends who grew up in single-parent households are more hardworking, mature and better self-starters than people like me who grew up in a 'traditional' family.
The problem is we value the wrong things, and we're encouraged to do so from cradle to grave. In what ways, in this culture, do we effectively promote learning for its own sake? I can't think of too many.
Tommy| 1.15.09 @ 9:06PM
There is no denying that my generation is much more apathetic than those previous generations. But after reading the comments on this page and being treated to name call after name call, I feel I have to step in and defend those of us that have not been caught up in the apathy. Bass makes the point that our media can be used for good and evil, and I agree with that wholeheartedly. I use my iPod to listen to conservative broadcasts, I use Facebook to debate politics with other students that share the interest, use my laptop to read online publications (like The American Spectator) and I almost never watch network tv (home of the lowest common denominator of news). I buy books about history, politics, and current events, read the op-ed pages in the Indianapolis Star religiously, and I put my library card to good use on a regular basis. I just want to make sure it is clear that this generation is NOT hopeless, that there are those of us that think Reagan was the coolest thing since sliced bread, and that there are those of who are concerned with the direction of this country. Lament and propose solutions to fix the rest of us, but don't count us out yet.
Tommy| 1.15.09 @ 9:08PM
*the same interest
Excuse my typo.
Derrick| 1.15.09 @ 9:15PM
@sbg
Yes, I saw the hippie sentence was wrong after I posted; it was a typo, not ignorance. I did not mean I was language expert, but I wanted to make the point not all of us youngsters speak in rap lingo or computer-speak. I'm sure Baeurline himself has made a few typing errors in the past. Thanks for your corrections, and sentence fragments.
Derrick| 1.15.09 @ 9:17PM
*a language expert
Rob| 1.15.09 @ 9:57PM
Only the dumbest generation could have overwhelmingly supported Obama. You'd have to be completely ignorant that his policies were tried and were complete failures in the 1970s to believe he was 'hope and change.'
Elcidd| 2.7.10 @ 10:06AM
That's right I forgot what a huge success the last 8 years of conservative rule were. Gosh we are so stupid for voting for Obama when clearly more years of tax breaks for the rich and homo bating would really turn this county around. Hey the definition of a conservative is: someone who never wants to do ANYTHING for the first time. You're all on the wrong side of history, oh and you're huge sore losers, and big whiners. Get over it you had your shot and you blew it. We progressives rule now so get the f... out of the way.
Derrick| 1.15.09 @ 10:47PM
On a side note, who now has The Who stuck in their head?
Floyd| 1.15.09 @ 11:44PM
I think Congress agrees. Did not the Children's health bill they just pass cover 'children' up to 29 and a 'poor' family of 4 making something like $63,000 per year.
They obviously don't believe this generation can take care of itself. Apparently the leftist Democrats don't think they have the ability to walk, chew gum, listen to an IPOD and think at the same time.
betty| 1.15.09 @ 11:58PM
This generation of 18-24 yrs is not any more apathetic than previous generations. You're just starting out, taking control of your life for the first time and finding your place in the world. Of course politics is going to take a back seat. That's the way it's always been (in recent history). This election period was different because activists went out and recruited uninformed, disinterested 'youth' to vote as instructed and they actually made it to the polls this time.
Sarah| 1.16.09 @ 5:46AM
I realize that many young people are immature, unfocused, irresponsible and/or apathetic, but this is not a new trend. Also, please remember that some young people do have strong values and are very driven to do great things. I have done humanitarian work in the US, Mexico, Albania, Ethiopia and India. I spent every single spring break in college doing community service and spent every summer working full time to save money for my textbooks, groceries and housing. I have a B.A. in English and an M.S. in journalism. I am currently working on an M.A. in international relations (as a full time student) and I am also working part time as an editorial assistant. I have done all of this and I am only 23 years old. I cannot tell you how humiliating and discouraging it is to work so hard and accomplish so much, only to be told that I am a member of the "Dumbest Generation." How dare you.
You complain that my generation is uneducated, yet you do not consider the fact that a college education is outrageously expensive and inaccessible to many who would love to go, if only they could afford it. I was fortunate enough to receive three scholarships and a grant for college, and I still had to take out loans (and maintain a part time job). I will have a ton of debt by the time I am finished with my education. This worries me a great deal. I almost decided not to attend grad school simply because of the cost, but, in the end, decided that it was worth the sacrifice. I know so many young people who are not acheiving the level of education that they would like to and are capable of, simply because school costs far too much money. It's very sad.
Deborah| 1.16.09 @ 7:17AM
Sean -- good for you in all of your pursuits of excellence. I think a sweeping condemnation of an entire generation, whether it be the current young generation (of which my daughter is a part) or the Baby Boom generation (of which I am a member) is short sighted and wrong. That's one of the problems I have with the book's thesis.
My daughter is pursuing her Ph.D. and has also gotten scholarships to help defer the costs. Although she could have qualified for an Ivy League, we decided that was a waste of money.
I guess I said all of that to say this. I find in this young generation an ambition to do good things, regardless of whether they are in the public or private sphere (or the military). Continue to fight back against the condemnation of your generation.
My generation had their hippies and peace activists (although most of the leaders of those particular "movements" were actually from the un-named generation between the Boomers and "the Greatest"). But, my generation also has a large number of conservatives and libertarian thinkers who were never caught up in that craziness.
You have a right to do what you think is right in this world. You're young. Have fun while you pursue your future. Congratulations to you.
astounded| 1.16.09 @ 8:50AM
sbgfkbfg:
It's obvious to me, based on your lack of punctuation or use of capital letters, and apparent inability to use complete sentences, that you are no better than Derrick. Yet, you criticize. Hypocrite is too gentle a word for your ilk.
Deborah| 1.16.09 @ 9:55AM
Ooops, must have needed coffee this morning. I wrote "Sean" -- it should have been "Sarah." I apologize. Geez, guess the boomers really are now the geezer generation. :) Anyway, much luck to you, Sarah.
Steve Baarda| 1.16.09 @ 9:55AM
David Bass made this observation:
"But are the gadgets themselves the culprit? That brings up the Achilles' heel of Bauerlein's argument. His diagnosis of the problem -- a generation drowned in a media tsunami -- could not be timelier. His explanation for its media obsession, however, is off base. He says technology "conspires against young people in their intellectual development," as if iPods, laptops, and cell phones had moral cognition. Yet these entertainment mediums are just that -- mediums that can be used for either good or evil. How an individual chooses to use the tool is the moral question, not the tool itself. "
The problem is that this analysis itself shows an profound lack of sophistication and depth of understanding of the research that surrounds the question of the effects of technology on humanity. No one can reasonably argue for the neutrality of technology since Marshal McLuhan put pen to paper and declared that the "Medium is the Message." McLuhan's point was the regardless of the moral intent of the wielder of technology, the very use of a technology will have its effects. The real "content" of TV is not the programming on the tube, but how the use at all of the medium affects its user, regardless of content. The question is not "how" the tool is used; but how this tool will effect us regardless of the moral frame or intent of the users. Just by its very use, the iPod is changing society. The question is not whether it will change us, but how.
Jacques Ellul made the observation that every technology, including technical systems [i.e. things like teaching methods or government programs] all adhere to a number of rules:
1. Technology is ambivalent, it does not care. It will have the effects it has regardless of the intentions of the users.
2. Technology will have a mix of effects, both good and bad.
3. Many of the effects of the technology cannot be predicited and will come unexpectedly. This means that the effects of technology cannot be mittigated by better planning. They cannot be accounted for and will happen, and they don't care. The very use of the technology will bring them and some might be good and some might be bad.
4. Each new technology and technical system will create more new problems than the ones it was intended to solve. This is why it is futile to think technologically created problems can be solved with more technology. All that technical solutions do is continually increase the complexity and difficulty of problems that we face.
In the end, Ellul argues, that there is a certain unreason that surrounds technology. Reason would dictate that if the use of a technology or technical system is creating too many undesired effects, that the wise choice from a human perspective is to simply choose as humans to stop using it.
TheLoneBlogger | 1.16.09 @ 6:16PM
Well as I 24 year old American I would love to have a talk with this man it was the baby boomers that lost the Vietnam war turned away from the church produced millions of abortions and single mother homes and it is the baby boomers that used counter culture ideas to destroyed are schools as places of learning and civic duty and it is the baby boomer who may as well just end the US as a world power when Social insecurity checks and Medicare become more important than are military power I wonder if this old geezer came up with this idea for his book while floating naked in the pond at Woodstock
AlgerHiss| 1.18.09 @ 12:02PM
On a milder note...mention of the Three Stooges reminded me of watching TV in Lima, Peru a few years ago.
They were running the Stooges, which was titled:
Tres Locos Clucks
JRS| 1.18.09 @ 1:37PM
Well, even if we are the dumbest generation, at least we aren't a part of the worst generation (aka the boomers). They sold this great country to China by watching this country pile on debt after debt while reversing America's image built by the greatest generation. And, before anyone tries to claim they're apart of the greatest generation and not a part of this wholesale destruction of this great nation, if you or your spouse didn't serve in WWII or at least Korea, please hang your head in shame.
diss-connection| 1.25.09 @ 6:36PM
"When a higher percentage of students can name the Three Stooges than the three branches of government, something is amiss."
How distant can this 23 year-old "writer" be from the reality of teen life in America today? I cannot name the three stooges, because the three stooges are probably all dead, and if not dead, at least old. On the other hand, I could just look them up on wikipedia. Wikipedia is just another part of my extended mind - and what of it? The point is, get with the program. We're writing it - not Bauerlein.
Howard Eames| 2.3.09 @ 9:16PM
Lone Blogger and JRS,
I do believe that it was the so-called "greatest generation" of WORLD WAR II who sent the men (and women) to Vietnam to fight and die; deliberately tied their hands to set them up to fail, then blamed them and put the fix in to deny them employment and any and all VA benefits. They continued this treatment by portraying them as nutcases, drug addicts and ticking bombs, successfully turning all of America against them.
They turned them away from American Legions and VFWs with the refrain "You stinkin' traitor hippies lost 'dis war." If these Archie Bunkers weren't croaking at the rate of 1000 a day the scurrilous treatment of Vietnam Veterans would still be continuing, full-blast today.
Dorothy| 6.14.09 @ 3:06PM
The "Greatest Generation" were full of shell shocked veterans who were effective "ghosts" in their own homes. They were providers, but they were ghosts, there, but not there. The women, the wives, of that generation effectively raised their children as single parents. Not surprising that their children, the hippie yippies, thought that was an effective model: thus duplicating the single parent model pattern via divorce. All was never that well in OZ.
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