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The Spectacle Blog
With all due respect to my friends and colleagues, the “rational actor” discussion somewhat misses the point. Obviously, the Iranian government is barbaric and it stands to reason that some of its objectives will be too. But that does not mean Iran’s political leaders are not motivated by self-preservation.
Iran has yet to follow through even on its threat to blockade the Strait of Hormuz, showing a reluctance to start a war Tehran would surely lose and that would almost certainly signal the end of the regime. Those are better indicators of the Iranian government’s intentions than outsiders’ academic interpretations of their theology. Iran isn’t acting like it is eager to usher in the end times, especially if that means the end of the Islamic republic.
The Iranian government is increasingly despised by its own people. In some nationalistic quarters, its intransigence on the nuclear question is one of its few redeeming qualities. There is little reason to believe that bombing Iran will make these people more favorably disposed toward Israel or the United States, and many reasons to think such an action could rally popular support behind a government that has manifestly failed and could be on its last legs.
We are unlikely to invade and occupy Iran like we did Iraq and Afghanistan, so some form of containment is going to have to be practiced even if we attempt to take out presume Iranian nuclear sites. Even some proponents of military action are unsure we will get all the sites. So will we merely slow down Iran’s progress toward a bomb? Perhaps even accelerate it? Will we inflame the sentiments among the Iranian people that prevailed in 1979?
A policy of enforcing nonproliferation via war and regime change creates perverse incentives and unintended consequences. No matter how backward and brutal, the aging communist rulers of North Korea are safe from regime change because of their nukes. Iraq was ripe for regime change precisely because it didn’t have nukes (or even the specific weapons programs that were a major part of the justification for that war). Libya gives up its weapons of mass destruction, only to have the U.S. support the overthrow of its government. When non-nuclear Afghanistan becomes a hiding place for al Qaeda, regime change. Nuclear-armed Pakistan gets U.S. aid. In this climate, a charter member of the “Axis of Evil” is going to pursue nuclear weapons.
We are talking about going to war with a country based on assumptions about its objectives that may not be true, to disarm of it weapons it may not have, without much thought for the consequences or results. This was the road we traveled to Baghdad. Are we eager for a sequel?
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More Blog Posts by W. James Antle, III
http://spectator.org/blog/2012/03/16/on-iran-our-leaders-must-be-ra
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Mark Twain| 3.16.12 @ 12:50PM
Look for an October surprise to rally people around Obama.
Zombie Reagan| 3.16.12 @ 2:39PM
"Are we eager for a sequel?" Tel Aviv Aaron is!
Jack in Wi.| 3.17.12 @ 7:10AM
Do what Nixon did with China. Lets send an Ambassador to Iran, end sanctions, trade with them and react like normal people. The Israeli's have been saying since at least 1994 that Iran is on the verge of developing a nuclear weapon. How long are we going to put up with such nonsense when all our own intelligence agencies say that they aren't building a bomb at this time?
Mike Daly | 3.17.12 @ 2:08PM
Because dealing with China didn't solve anything and trusting "our intelligence agencies" is wrong because they're not competent at gathering real intelligence - they think they know better and they never do. They act as if our enemies aren't enemies - they'd rather punish our friends than our enemies.
C Bowen | 3.17.12 @ 6:12PM
What are you talking about? The CIA and FBI covered up for those in the administration who forged the Nigerian Uranium documents. They did arrest Traitor Larry Franklin in Doug Fieth's/Rumselfed policy shop, the Office of Special Plans, but that never made it to trial as far as the spies within AIPAC.
Mike Daly | 3.19.12 @ 1:42PM
I'm talking about the CIA' entrenched liberalism and culture-wide denial of Iraq as a war state. And AIPAC? You're insane.
Zombie Reagan| 3.16.12 @ 2:39PM
"Are we eager for a sequel?" Tel Aviv Aaron is!
Mike Daly | 3.16.12 @ 1:36PM
Actually Iraq DID have N-B-C weaponry and programs as shown by the weapons-grade uranium, the parts and pieces (notably of centrifuges), and the papers of the Iraq Intelligence Service uncovered after Hussein was defeated - the one thing that surprised everyone was how decentralized the whole program was. We're talking about FINALLY defeating what is almost the last Middle eastern bastion of Islamo-Arab imperialism. "This was the road traveled to Baghdad" and it presented the chance for a new Middle East - except Obama decided to quit. The mistake the US always makes is quitting.
Zombie Reagan| 3.16.12 @ 2:34PM
"The mistake the US always makes is quitting."
Right, we should STILL be fighting the North Vietnamese. Brilliant!
Pete| 3.16.12 @ 6:31PM
Just saw a picture of a young Romney protesting against the protestor of the Viet Nam draft. Meanwhile he used his religion to escape the draft. As someone who was drafted for that war I find it rather upsetting.
Mike Daly | 3.16.12 @ 7:47PM
And your point is...........?
Clint| 3.18.12 @ 6:00AM
Duuuuhhhh !
Mitt Romney Is One More Coatholder RINO-CINO Neo-Chickenhawk Candidate.
Mike Daly | 3.19.12 @ 1:44PM
So you mean you have NO point. Romney didn't escape the draft.
BTW, Vietnam wasn't fought by draftees.
Mike Daly | 3.16.12 @ 7:04PM
Zombie, we'd have defeated the North Vietnamese if we'd stayed and finished the mission, and in doing so Southeast Asia would be the kind of prosperous region most of Asia is, and Soviet Russia would have suffered a huge defeat in its international war by proxy of the 1960s-80s.
Zombie Reagan| 3.16.12 @ 11:14PM
Coulda, woulda, shoulda. How is the weather in your strange parallel universe? As for Southeast Asia being prosperous, you mean like Red Communist China, which we owe trillions of dollars to?
Mike Daly | 3.17.12 @ 2:09PM
Red China isn't as prosperous as advertised. South Korea is, Japan is, South Vietnam would be by staying and winning. It isn't "coulda woulda" it's fact.
Clint| 3.18.12 @ 6:06AM
Tell Us All About The Israelis Illegally Selling U.S. Weapons Technology To The Red Chinese, Jeopardizing Our Allies Taiwan & Japan.
Mike Daly | 3.19.12 @ 1:44PM
They didn't.
Clint| 3.22.12 @ 8:31AM
You're A Liar, Israel Firster Flunkie Stooge, Little Micky.
WASHINGTON — Israel has been violating American law by the unauthorized sale of U.S. weapons and military technology to other nations, and U.S. officials failed to halt the practice, the State Department`s inspector general said Wednesday.
The inspector general, Sherman Funk, said in a report that the department`s political-military affairs bureau ``had received many reports of significant, alleged violations`` of restrictions on weapons transfers by ``a major recipient`` of U.S. weapons and technology.
" Investigator Says Israel Illegally Sold U.s. Weapons, Technology
``The violations include sales of sensitive U.S. items and technology to countries prohibited by U.S. law from receiving such items,`` the report said. The Wall Street Journal recently cited intelligence reports that Israel has sold American air-to-air missiles to China, anti-tank missiles to South Africa, cluster bombs to Ethiopia and Chile, and sophisticated aircraft radars and jamming devices to unspecified nations."
Mike Daly | 3.17.12 @ 2:12PM
BTW the debt argument is a two-way street - they owe more than we.
C Bowen | 3.16.12 @ 4:27PM
Mike Daly has the tinfoil hat on a little too tight.
Clint| 3.16.12 @ 4:49PM
" The fall of Rome and other dominant civilizations manifest similar pathologies—imperial overreach, runaway spending, erosion of money’s purchasing power."
As Ralph Waldo Emerson warned when he wrote, “A nation never falls but by suicide.”
The Tea Party Rebellion Heads To A Brokered Convention.
Mike Daly | 3.16.12 @ 7:09PM
I don't wear hats - I'm just stating facts.
C Bowen | 3.16.12 @ 7:29PM
The Iranian agent Chalabi and his friend Curveball thank you for your post.
Mike--were you scared of Iraq? Diapers and a tin foil hat...
Mike Daly | 3.16.12 @ 7:48PM
I don't wear hats - I'm just stating facts.
Clint| 3.18.12 @ 6:08AM
This Little Emperor Has No Clothes.
Mike Daly | 3.19.12 @ 1:45PM
Look in the mirror for no clothes - and no sense.
Clint| 3.22.12 @ 8:33AM
Case Closed, Little Micky.
Zombie Reagan| 3.16.12 @ 2:31PM
About time you weighed in, Thirdly. The NeoCons here were getting a free hand for too long.
Clint| 3.16.12 @ 4:57PM
Pat Buchanan,
" Neoconservatives Are The Boat People Of The McGovern Revolution."
The Tea Party Rebellion Heads To A Brokered Convention.
Bob S| 3.16.12 @ 3:23PM
'"FINALLY defeating what is almost the last Middle eastern bastion of Islamo-Arab imperialism".
Defeat it with what? More American imperialism? That's part of what's bankrupting us.
Besides, who sold Saddam the NBC technology in the first place? WGermany and France. When do we invade them?
Maybe we could walk softly and carry a big stick for a change? Instead of poking the Arabs in the eye with it.
And how about letting them fight amongst themselves for a change instead of getting involved?
Further Bush should have been impeached for trying to bring democracy to Iraq/Afghanistan. It might be news to the neo-cons, but it ain't in the constitution.
Mike Daly | 3.16.12 @ 7:08PM
Bob S - there is no "American imperialism." We're not being bankrupted by defeating our enemies - we're bankrupted by entitlement spending - The US spent $1 trillion 2001-10 in battling Islamo-Arab imperialism - Obama spent more than that in 2010 alone on entitlements.
"Who sold Saddam the NBC technology?" Germany and France sold a lot, but Iraq also got a lot from North Korea (the late Christopher Hitchens showed how North Korea was Saddam's ally in NBC weaponry).
Walk softly promotes the enemy to attacking - when they see we're quitting, they attack. When we fight, they back down.
Bush brought peace to Iraq-Afghanistan - that's not unconstitutional no matter how you read it - Thomas Jefferson would endorse it.
Zombie Reagan| 3.16.12 @ 11:18PM
I'd rather spend money on Americans than on Afghanis and Iraqis, which is what we are doing now.
Mike Daly | 3.17.12 @ 2:10PM
We're not supposed to "spend money on Americans." We're supposed to spend money on SOLVING the issues of our security. Victory solves those issues - quitting merely makes the fighting and killing continue and get worse. There is - I'm lapsing into cliche - no substitute for victory. Period.
Clint| 3.18.12 @ 5:49AM
Dr.Ron Paul,
“Our military’s purpose is to defend our country, not to police the
Middle East.
“As the President prepares to send even more support to Egypt, we should
be reminded that it was our foreign aid that helped Mubarak retain power
to repress his people in the first place. Now we have to deal with the
consequences of those decisions, yet we keep repeating the same mistakes.
“I am not the only one who can see the absurdities of our foreign
policy. We give $3 billion to Israel and $12 billion to her enemies.
Most Americans know that makes no sense.
“We need to come to our senses, trade with our friends in the Middle
East (both Arab and Israeli), clean up our own economic mess so we set a
good example, and allow them to work out their own conflicts.”
Mike Daly | 3.19.12 @ 1:47PM
DO NOT quote an isolationist who by definition is utterly ignorant that defending our coutnry REQUIRES policing the Middle East, etc. It wasn't "our support" that kept Mubarak in power. And $3 billion to Israel makes all the sense in the world - they're our ally. "Most Americans know that makes no sense." No, most Americans know Ron Paul is a fool.
We need to come our senses - that means STAYING in the Middle East and finishing the mission.
Clint| 3.18.12 @ 5:55AM
Ronald Reagan,
" Perhaps we didn't appreciate fully enough the depth of the hatred and the complexity of the problems that made the Middle East such a jungle. Perhaps the idea of a suicide car bomber committing mass murder to gain instant entry to Paradise was so foreign to our own values and consciousness that it did not create in us the concern for the marines' safety that it should have.
In the weeks immediately after the bombing, I believed the last thing that we should do was turn tail and leave. Yet the irrationality of Middle Eastern politics forced us to rethink our policy there. If there would be some rethinking of policy before our men die, we would be a lot better off. If that policy had changed towards more of a neutral position and neutrality, those 241 marines would be alive today. "
Mike Daly | 3.19.12 @ 1:48PM
What happened there was the US should have stayed and DEFEATED the Islamo-Arab imperial culture that created suicide bombers. We're succeeding in doing so in Iraq - it's OBAMA who wants to quit. The 241 marines were killed by Islamo-Arab imperialism, not by US policy.
Dan Phillips| 3.16.12 @ 7:20PM
"outsiders' academic interpretations of their theology"
Even that is giving the Iran hawks more credit than they deserve. Neutral scholars of Iran and Islam do not support the Iran as martyr state thesis. The only people who propagate the Iran as martyr state myth are alarmist interventionists who only talk to each other in a self reinforcing echo chamber.
Clint| 3.17.12 @ 2:03AM
" Iraq war will cost more than World War II
Iraq war, has cost more than $800 billion so far. But ongoing medical treatment, replacement vehicles, etc., will push costs to $4 trillion or more."
Mike Daly | 3.17.12 @ 2:11PM
It won't be close to $4 trillion. It will stay lower in ten years than what Obama spends on entitlements in just one year.
Thom| 3.18.12 @ 12:25PM
WWII cost half of GDP over 4 years. That would be about 29 Trillion today. 16,000,000 people served over 4 years, right at 12,000,000 serving at one time. We built over 49,000 Sherman tanks alone and just about any fighter model we built of many types built exceeds our total inventory of combat aircraft today…. Gas sold for what in WWII? A 10 year old boy has more factual knowledge of WWII than you do Clint.
Clint| 3.18.12 @ 2:17PM
Do Your Own Homework.
"The public debt has climbed to $14.58 trillion, putting it just over the $14.53 trillion size of the country's economy in 2010, Keyboard Commando, Little Thommy.
Defense rose to 42 Percent of The GDP by 1945, Keyboard Commando.
Gas sold around 18 cents in WWII.
" Gasoline was rationed on May 15, 1942 on the east coast, and nationwide that
December. The OPA issued various stickers to be affixed to the car's
windshield, depending on need. To get your classification and ration
stamps, you had to certify to a local board that you needed gas and owned no
more than five tires."
American Warriors Are Not To Be Used As Cannon Fodder And American Treasure Is Not To Be Pissed Away Policing The Middle East For The Traitor Bastard Israel Firster Agenda, Little Thommy.
The Tea Party Rebellion Heads To A Brokered Convention.
Clint| 3.18.12 @ 3:04PM
Do Your Homework, Israel Firster Smear Bund Boy, Little Thommy.
"According to President Truman's address to Congress in 1948 , he stated that the US had contributed about $341 Billion to World War 2. Assuming he meant 1945 dollars, that works out to be about $4.1 TRILLION in 2009 dollars. "
The Tea Party Rebellion Heads To A Brokered Convention.
Thom| 3.18.12 @ 6:36PM
The GDP before WWII started was around 100 billion a year. The GDP today is 14.5 Trillion. What we buy today cost today's dollars and M1 Tanks don't cost or preform like M-4 Shermans. A P-51 burns 77 gallons an hour. Know what an F-16 burns per hour? Your comparison is only valid if we buy WWII equipment and pay people WWII wages today. 18 cents a galllon then, $4.00 a gallon today. You think we can put 12,000,000 people under arms today, build a couple hundred thousand combat aircraft and build the Navy we had in WWII with 90 + combat divisions on 4 Trillion dollars? That claim is as bogus as the one that says it will take 4-6 Trillion to replace the actual equipment used in Iraq and Afghanistan. When you find someone willing to build M1 tanks for the inflation adjusted WWII price get back to us. We built over 49,000 of them in WWII and every one of them could be knocked out of action beyond the range the M4’s gun could do the same to the German tanks. Shermans lost in one on one combat with Panthers 5 to 1. Tigers even worse. The Germans only built 5500 Panthers and most were used on the Eastern Front. You want “Sherman” prices for your weapons; you need to find enemies armed with WWII weapons. A cheap RPG will turn a Sherman inside out no matter where it hits it. Like I said, a WWII military force armed with today’s weapons pitted against current Soviet and alike weapons would cost 29 Trillion dollars using current production cost and weapons. Look it up or find someone that can build an M1 tank for the price of a WWII Sherman adjusted for inflation of course.
Mike Daly | 3.19.12 @ 1:50PM
Do YOUR homework. The US spent more on FDR's social programs than on defense. The US spent more on Lyndon Johnson's entitlement programs than on defense - ever. And your antisemitism becomes ever more grotesque and thus forfeiting you from the discussion.
Clint| 3.18.12 @ 5:46AM
"Throw in the replacement of vehicles, weapons, equipment, etc., and the eventual tab for the United States could reach $4 trillion to $6 trillion, according to University of Columbia economist Joseph Stiglitz and Harvard University budget expert Linda Bilmes. Those are big numbers."
Thom| 3.18.12 @ 11:39AM
We are operating 30+ year old equipment. It will have to be replaced regardless of its use for a host of reasons. We didn’t spend trillions to buy what we now have in 2012 adjusted dollars. We can replace our entire carrier fleet for about 70 billion and it will take about 66 years to do that. Each of the current planes on said carriers averages around 50 million thus 80 of the current said planes at an average cost of 50 million today comes to around another 4 billion per carrier and we keep those planes in service 20-30 years now. Add it (the cost of equipment procurement ) all up and spread it over the 30+ year life cycle cost of most of it and that 4-6 trillion figure is as bogus as a 3 dollar bill.
Clint| 3.18.12 @ 2:35PM
Ronald Reagan On Defense Waste:
" During my 1980 campaign, I called federal waste and fraud a national scandal. We knew we could never rebuild America's strength without first controlling the exploding cost of defense programs, and we're doing it. When we took office in 1981, costs had been escalating at an annual rate of 14 percent. Then we began our reforms. And in the last two years, cost increases have fallen to less than 1 percent. We've made huge savings. Each F-18 fighter costs nearly $4 million less today than in 1981. One of our air-to-air missiles costs barely half as much.
Getting control of the defense bureaucracy is no small task. Each year the Defense Department signs hundreds of thousands of contracts. So yes, a horror story will sometimes turn up despite our best efforts. That's why we appointed the first Inspector General in the history of the Defense Department. And virtually every case of fraud or abuse has been uncovered by our Defense Department, our Inspector General. Secretary Weinberger should be praised, not pilloried, for cleaning the skeletons out of the closet. As for those few who have cheated taxpayers or have swindled our Armed Forces with faulty equipment, they are thieves stealing from the arsenal of democracy, and they will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law."
Thom| 3.18.12 @ 6:07PM
What does this have to do with your claim that the Iraq war cost more than WWII and it will take 4-6 Trillion dollars to replace our equipment used in said war? Nothing. Try reading a Defense Department budget break down and procurement list to check your facts before you make a fool out of yourself.
What next Clint, that famous Ike quote about the Industrial military complex? Said president signed defense authorization budgets over 8 years averaging twice what our base line Defense budget is today in GDP terms. Ike built hundreds of long range strategic nuclear bombers and tankers to refuel them on their way to Russia as just a part of his military industrial complex efforts. Try explaining his actions vs. the only quote anyone seems to remember he said in 8 years of his presidency. Like Ike, you can’t seem to align Reagan’s words in one speak to his actions over 8 years either. Reagan ordered more F-18s after he got their price down a bit not less. Those same F-18s are over 25 years old today and reaching the end of their service life rather the fly or not. We aren't replacing 25 year old technology with 25 year old technology if you haven't notice. Prove it will take 4-6 trillion to replace all the equipment we used in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Bulk of US equipment never set foot in either place over the last 10 years. If you knew anything at all about how the US has operated over the last decade you would already know that.
Clint| 3.18.12 @ 6:35PM
It Has To Do With The Bloviatin' Israel Firster Neo-Chickenhawk Coatholder, Little Thommy Bullshit Bloviatin' That WW II Cost Us $29 Trillion In Current U.S. Dollars.
Little Thommy Israel Firster Says,
" That would be about 29 Trillion today. "
Ronald Reagan On Defense Waste:
"Much of the waste in defense is directly attributable to the appropriations process. The vote delays on the MX missile and the suspension of the B-1 bomber cost this country billions of dollars--dollars that were lost forever as those systems that were set back had to be reprogrammed at higher cost.
"The report also calls for less micromanagement," he said. "Instead of scrutinizing every paper clip, bolt and bullet, Congress should give more thought to our overall defense needs and strategy."
The President particularly praised the commission's recommendation for five-year spending projections and two-year budget cycles for the Pentagon. "We are the only major country in the world that rewrites its defense budget every year," Reagan said.
"The waste that results is immense," he said. "No company in the private sector could survive if it couldn't plan for the future. The effect of funding programs this way is less defense and more cost."
Reagan appointed the commission, headed by former Deputy Defense Secretary David Packard, last June and asked it to propose reforms that would end "horror stories" about $600 toilet seat covers, $400 hammers and fierce interservice rivalries."
Mike Daly | 3.19.12 @ 1:52PM
What Clint has done is expose himself as an antisemite. He knows the US spent less in ten years on the war in the Middle East than Obama has spent in just ONE year on entitlement programs. Clint has no right to the opinions he holds because he is a hate-criminal and a traitor.
Thom| 3.18.12 @ 11:22AM
There isn’t a shred of evidence in the public domain that Israel has a single nuclear weapon. None of her enemies can provide any evidence that Israel has any nuclear weapons or ballistic missile delivery systems. Not one long range delivery system yet everyone speaks of Israel as having an arsenal of such with ranges of numbers to match….
There isn’t a shred of evidence in the public domain that Iran has a single nuclear weapon. None of her enemies can provide any evidence that Iran has any nuclear weapons. Contrary to Israel, Iran has a very large nuclear infrastructure of nuclear specific facilities with some very large facilities buried underground and hardened from air attack. Israel has a very limited means to attack Iran using short ranged tactical aircraft. Iran has a growing inventory of both short range and intermediate range ballistic missiles with longer range missiles being tested that can all deliver nuclear warheads yet the same people who say Israel has nuclear weapons with absolute certainty say Iran does not and is not building a force of them……
Hitler, Stalin, Tojo and Mao were all “rational actors” too unless you think the tens of millions of soldiers they got to fight for them were all nut cases too. I have to wonder if the people who think the opposite about Israel and Iran given what evidence we do have are indeed “rational” at all?
Clint| 3.18.12 @ 2:31PM
Go Sell That Israel Firster Smear Bund Traitor Bastard Sand To The Arabs, Little Thommy.
"As early as 8 December 1960, the CIA issued a report outlining Dimona's implications for nuclear proliferation, and the CIA station in Tel Aviv had determined by the mid-1960s that the Israeli nuclear weapons program was an established and irreversible fact.
By the late 1990s the U.S. Intelligence Community estimated that Israel possessed between 75-130 weapons, based on production estimates. The stockpile would certainly include warheads for mobile Jericho-1 and Jericho-2 missiles, as well as bombs for Israeli aircraft, and may include other tactical nuclear weapons of various types. Some published estimates even claimed that Israel might have as many as 400 nuclear weapons by the late 1990s. We believe these numbers are exaggerated, and that Israel's nuclear weapons inventory may include less than 100 nuclear weapons."
The Tea Party Rebellion Heads To A Brokered Convention.
Thom| 3.18.12 @ 5:47PM
This is the same CIA that said Iraq had WMDs....was caught flat footed by the collapse of the Soviet Union and couldn’t find OBL for nearly a decade most of the time sitting in plain sight. Shows us proof Israel has nuclear weapons using the same standards you demand for Iran…. You can’t. You demand court room standards for Iran while ignoring an avalanche of infrastructure evidence, ignore international Atomic Energy inspection reports while you quote sources that can’t put a single piece of evidence in the public domain about Israel’s possession of said nukes, not one. By the standards you demand, Israel has no nukes.
Mike Daly | 3.20.12 @ 12:39PM
Not buying that the CIA claimed Iraq had N-B-C weaponry - the CIA spent its efforts denying that plus denying Iraq's sanction of international terrorism - they believe the Ernst Stavro Blofeld Myth Of International Terrorism.
Clint| 3.18.12 @ 6:21PM
Interesting, How The Israel Firster Smear Bund Traitor Bastards Act As Apologists For The Foreign Nation Of Israel, While Badmouthing United States Intelligence Operations And Our U.S. Military.
" A United States Air Force report asserts that Israel is building a nuclear naval force meant to respond to any nuclear strike by such countries as Iran or Iraq.
It is the first time a U.S. military institution has stated that Israel has produced a hydrogen bomb. The number of purported Israeli nuclear weapons cited in the report is double that of previous assessments.
The report, sponsored by the air force's Counterproliferation Center, asserts that the navy can deploy any of what it asserts is Israel's 400 atomic and hydrogen weapons, Middle East Newsline reported. The center is located in the Maxwell Air Force Base in Alabama.
In a report entitled "The Third Temple's Holy of Holies: Israel's Nuclear Weapons," U.S. Army Col. Warner Farr said Israel's nuclear arsenal has grown from an estimated 13 nuclear bombs in 1967 to 400 nuclear and thermonuclear weapons. Farr said Israel's navy could deploy nuclear weapons on the fleet of three German-built Dolphin-class diesel submarines. "
Thom| 3.18.12 @ 7:08PM
Prove Israel has a single nuclear weapon Clint.. We don't want to get in the habit of making decisions about war based on opinions do we? We've seen how the opinions of five US security agencies and 4 allied foreign Nation's security agency opinions went in Iraq? Right? There were no WMDs in Iraq….. Did you actually read the UN Inspection report on what they did find? I did. You didn't believe those US security agencies then did you? Of Course not. It is only the things that agree with your religion that you put such unwavering faith in..... Iran doesn’t have nukes, won’t build any and Israel has to have an arsenal of nukes based on not a shred of evidence put on the table. The arsenal of nukes gets larger every time people like you dredge up someone else’s opinion of same…. All I’m asking you to do is apply the same standard you apply to Israel that you do Iran and you won’t.
For the record Client I “believe” Israel has nukes, mostly of the tactical type not the kind you holist upon a very visible IRBM or ICBM but the kind you develop to be dropped from short range tactical fighter aircraft for defensive purposes against massed conventional forces just like we maintained in Europe for the better part of 30 years. My opinion and yours are irrelevant in the scheme of things however. What the Israelis think however is very relevant and no matter how far you stick your head up your bigoted arse hole, their decisions on this matter will be revenant to our little patch of the world. You don’t have to like the answer but unless you don’t actually live in the US you will have to suffer right there along with the rest of us if their “opinion” has more credibility to them than our “opinion” has. You know what they say about “opinions” there Clint? I want proof not opinions. I want the same standards applied to Iran as you apply to Israel. You can’t. You won’t and that is why no one takes your “cut and paste” follies seriously.
Clint| 3.18.12 @ 7:48PM
Nothin' Chandes The Fact That You're A Bloviatin' Neo-Chickemhawk Coatholder Coward, Israel Firster Smear Bund Traitor Bastard Apologist, Little Thommy.
" Mordechai Vanunu (Hebrew is a former Israeli nuclear technician who, citing his opposition to weapons of mass destruction, revealed details of Israel's nuclear weapons program to the British press in 1986. He was subsequently lured to Italy by a Mossad agent, where he was drugged and kidnapped by Israeli intelligence agents. He was transported to Israel and ultimately convicted in a trial that was held behind closed doors.
Vanunu has been characterized internationally as a whistleblower and by Israel as a traitor."
Kingofthenet| 3.18.12 @ 7:12PM
I wouldn't be surprised IF Israel attacked Iran, that Hard Line Islamists get control in Pakistan and nuke Israel.
Mike Daly | 3.19.12 @ 1:53PM
N o way - if/when Israel attacks Iran the enemy will retreat. They attack when they know their targets won't hit back.