Erik, whose last name I won’t use, listened to my Sunday
radio show on Denver’s 850 KOA and had a few comments on the
topic of contraception (which was brought to the forefront again by
Rush Limbaugh’s recent controversy and apology.) Erik made several
points, each of which I’d like to respond to with more than one
sentence.
In the note below, the indented material is Erik’s note to me,
with my response to each paragraph immediately following. (I have
not edited Erik’s note for grammar or spelling.)
I listened to your show today, and while I found the
discussion interesting, I think your misinformed on the
applications of birth control. Hormonal therapy can be used by
doctors to assist women with their contraceptive needs, but it is
also to treat medical conditions like ovarian cysts. You and your
right brethren live under the assumption that women use birth
control simply for sexual deviancy. I think that this subtext is
abhorrent and it’s part of the reason why there has been so much
outrage against Rush Limbaugh.
First, thanks for listening.
Next: The vast majority of the use of “birth control” pills is,
believe it or not, for birth control, also known as contraception.
To the extent that any particular drug is used for multiple medical
purposes, each of those purposes can be the subject of different
conversations. If a woman is being treated for cysts, that is a
different subject entirely than using the same drug for
contraception, and you will notice that the debate at hand is about
the use of the drug for contraception, not other medically
indications. Furthermore, those who are against government
requiring insurance to include “free” birth control — and
abortion-inducing pills, and sterilization — are not against using
the same chemical to treat a disease or other medical
condition.
I never suggested that birth control is used to allow “sexual
deviancy.” In fact, I was quite clear that I couldn’t care less
what people do in their private lives, nor do I think that someone
who has multiple sexual partners is somehow immoral or deviant, nor
do I care whether someone has sex outside of marriage, though I do
think it’s at least unethical, and I might use stronger words, to
commit adultery. (My view on this is not based on a religious
prohibition but simply because it breaks a solemn promise and can
destroy a family. Someone who cheats on a spouse without intending
to get divorced, and particularly if they have kids, has some
serious thinking to do. But it’s not my business and not the
government’s business.)
(Back when I was single, I could only have hoped to run into
more of the “sexual deviancy” you described, but I was a little too
much of a nerd for that, despite being a partner in one of
Chicago’s most popular nightclubs.)
I think there are two reasons for the outrage against Rush:
First, he shouldn’t have used the language that he did…and he
knows it and apologized for it. (This despite the fact that when
the left uses similar language against conservative figures, nobody
in the media bats an eye.) Second, the left is furiously spinning
this into a “war against women” when in fact what it is is a war
for religious conscience and for limited, rational government.
I listened to your argument against having “pay for
birth control,” and I kept asking myself why you were making this
assertion. In your dialogue you repeatedly stated that you didn’t
care what others did, but you didn’t want to pay for it. I wanted
to call your show but was unfortunately driving and wanted to make
this simple point.
What could you object to in someone’s saying that Americans
shouldn’t pay for the costs of other people’s personal diversions?
I would reemphasize the point I made on the air: Insurance, by
definition, is a policy to “insure” against possible loss from an
unforeseen from an unforeseen future event. It’s why car insurance
covers accidents but not oil changes. Covering something which a
person (1) can decide whether or not to use, (2) can easily foresee
using in most cases, and (3) stands essentially zero chance of
being a substantial economic hardship should someone have to pay
for it is far outside what insurance means.
The blunt amendment is anti-liberty and
anti-democratic. If I am an employer and I have a “moral objection”
to any form a medical care I can block it. To give an example that
may have more potency than birth control let’s pretend for a moment
that I am a gay man with HIV, and let’s just say for a second that
my boss has a moral objection to my homosexuality and refuses to
treat my HIV. In our world employers have rights but employees,
that’s employees, also have rights to basic health care. In my
opinion, contraception falls under the same umbrella as HIV
treatment. I know you disagree with this assertion but as someone
who hates government it’s really you dictating to women across the
country that they cannot have access to birth control because of
“your” moral whims.
You speak, like many liberals, as if employers have no rights.
Furthermore, you misconstrue the meaning of liberty as it has
historically been understood in America. We are a country of
“negative rights,” meaning that the government is restricted from
doing certain things to its people and people are restricted from
doing certain things to each other. We are not a country of
“positive rights,” where people can make claims for things which
can only be provided by taxing or otherwise taking from others.
I understand that much of this has changed since FDR, but even
most of his unconstitutional welfare state programs are at least
contributed to by those who then benefit from them. Yes, they are
all Ponzi schemes, and with the current worker-retiree ratio they
have turned into “positive rights” programs, which is part of they
reason they are both immoral and bankrupting the nation — as
Obamacare is and will if not repealed.
Next: An employer could not “block HIV treatment.” An employee
who was concerned about such coverage would check whether that was
covered before taking a job. Once covered, unless there was some
fraud on the employee’s part, the insurance coverage is what it is.
Since it’s possible to get HIV from activities other than
homosexual sex, your hypothetical of an employer trying to block
HIV coverage is extremely unlikely. Still, even if it were real, it
is something an employee could learn about before taking the job.
By the way, Ms. Sandra Fluke KNEW that Georgetown’s health
insurance program did not cover contraceptives but enrolled anyway.
If you don’t like a club’s rules, go join a different club; don’t
make the government try to force the club to play by rules you
prefer.
It should be obvious that contraception and HIV treatments are
not at all similar, when it comes to how insurance can treat them.
Putting aside the question of pre-existing conditions, let’s say
someone gets health insurance coverage believing that he is
healthy. And let’s say he then contracts HIV…it doesn’t matter
how. That is something which was unforeseen, perhaps unforeseeable,
and poses a real risk of extreme financial hardship. Contraceptive
use could hardly be different.
But I want to address perhaps your (and liberals’) biggest and
most dangerous intellectual error: You say that there is a right to
“basic health care.” What sort of right is that, exactly? Do you
actually mean “a right to have someone else pay for my basic health
care”? If so, where does that right come from, and where does your
right to take my money to pay for it come from?
Let me make this clear: Everyone has a right to try to access
whatever health care is provided in a free market system without
requiring someone else to pay for it. And everyone has a right to
get whatever health care is guaranteed under the provisions of a
health insurance policy which he or she is covered by, as long as
the insured also lived by the provisions of the contract. Nobody
has a right to health care paid for by others (other than through
private insurance contracts.) In fact, nobody has a right
to be offered health insurance, much less to have it funded by
others. Instead, people should consider themselves fortunate to
live in a society where companies have found a way to create health
insurance that is financially sensible for both the insurer and the
insured to participate in. Or at least it used to be financially
sensible before government mandates and manipulations have — just
as they have with education costs — caused premiums to skyrocket
while quality does not improve proportionately.
The other totally erroneous leftist talking point you are making
is that I am trying to keep women from having access to
contraception because of my moral whims. First of all, in the sense
that most people use the word morality, it has nothing to do with
this discussion. (I do think that using the power of government to
make others subsidize my life is immoral but I doubt that’s what
you meant.) I am, after all, not religious and not Christian.
Secondly, and more importantly, please tell me how, prior to
insurance policies covering the extremely inexpensive birth control
pill, women were blocked from “access.” Any woman, whether with
insurance coverage or not, can go to a Target pharmacy and get a
28-day supply of the most common type of birth control pill for $9.
The idea that women don’t have access to contraception if someone
else doesn’t pay for it is an outrageous lie. By the way,
presumably there are two people involved in the act that requires
contraception. The idea that two people together can’t afford this
stuff is utterly ridiculous.
Obama is mandating that all females must get birth
control he is merely saying that each female in the country should
have access to birth control if they want it. This reaches a more
fundamental issue about healthcare and I think you can alter your
argument so its pro women and pro liberty.
Again, this is an outright lie. You can probably name a thousand
products which people have access to without those things being
paid for by others, whether oatmeal or windshield wipers or condoms
or movie theater tickets. Contraception is no different except that
feminists have claimed it to be so.
Being against having taxpayers or those with moral objections
being forced to subsidize anything for anyone is
not anti-woman. Furthermore it is your view, not mine, that is
anti-liberty since your view can only be satisfied by what Bastiat
called “legalized plunder.”
Put it this way: If someone mugged me but gave the money he
stole to charity, is that then not a crime? No, Erik, your
do-gooder urges make you no less a thief in spirit than that
mugger.
And where does it end? What about people who say they need very
expensive custom-made shoes (or shoe inserts) to help their feet
feel better? What about people who need mouthwash every day for bad
breath? What about people who have ugly teeth and want expensive
veneers or other dental treatment to help their self-seteem? Should
others be required by government pay for all these things? And can
you imagine how much more expensive your health insurance will be
if it has to cover those things? (Well, you can imagine to some
degree by looking at the incredible insurance premium inflation
we’ve suffered in recent years because of government mandates and
government prevention of competition.)
And don’t think for a second that anything which an insurance
company provides for “free” is actually free.
By the way, I don’t object to an insurance company offering
contraception in a policy if they want to. Indeed, such a decision
could make financial sense for them given the cost of maternity,
especially high-risk pregnancies, etc. What I object to is
government requiring private citizens, companies, and institutions
to purchase health insurance policies with any specific provisions.
All terms of insurance should be left to negotiation between the
insurer and the insured, or in our current system, between the
insurer and the employer of the insured.
Instead of sounding like an old curmudgeon, I aint
gonna pay for no birth control why don’t you take a more
libertarian stance and say that the individual should be able to
choose their own healthcare plan i.e. allow employers to give their
employees a stipend to pay for their own health insurance. An
individual could choose their own plan and do what ever they would
like. This is the position I think the right should take, but
clearly your more obsessed with forcing women to cater to your
moral whims rather than giving them the freedom to choose how they
wish to behave.
I already answered this. Anything which is done voluntarily in a
non-government-coerced transaction is OK with me. But if a Catholic
institution will not voluntarily do anything that would directly or
indirectly purchase or subsidize a particular thing, such as
contraception, that right of free exercise of religion is one of
the most important rights that Americans have. Indeed it was
perhaps the single most important right to those who fled to these
shores from across Europe several centuries ago.
The healthcare reform bill was a noble attempt to fix
our system but I think it creates too much bureaucracy. My answer
to solving the whole care problem would be to have government take
over all catastrophic care and have private insurance cover
preventative and extra medical coverage. The second part of my plan
would be purely electable, and individuals could receive tax
subsidies if they signed up for plans. I think you should take a
look at the blunt amendment and see what it really does. It’s so
tyrannical that it’s almost fascist and it really makes me sick to
my stomach that someone who professes to be “pro liberty” would
decide that it’s a worthy piece of legislation to
support.
The healthcare reform bill was anything but noble. It was a
reprehensible power grab implemented by the most unethical
government in modern American history, and perhaps in all American
history. There is a reason that the majority of Americans still
want this travesty repealed. When you say government is trying “to
fix our system,” you remind me of a medieval doctor who, having
attached a few dozen leeches to a patient but not seeing
improvement then calls for a hundred more leeches to suck the
patient’s blood. You can’t cure a cancer by injecting more cancer
cells; government (especially federal government) meddling in the
health insurance system is a cancer in that system. The cure is
FREEDOM.
Obamacare, if not ripped out by the roots, will destroy the
private health insurance system — which is exactly what the left
wants. Your intellectual gymnastics, trying to think of a way that
government can “fix our system” by implementing its own plans,
rather than by just allowing and encouraging competition, without
creating “too much bureaucracy” is extremely naive.
Why should government be involved in “catastrophic care”,
especially the federal government? Where does the constitution give
the federal government the power to even have a thought about
health insurance, much less to effectively nationalize the industry
and turn insurers into the only utilities hated more than our usual
utilities? Heath care is no government’s business but to the extent
that there must be government meddling, it should be at the state
level so each state can learn from the mistakes of others — and so
that Americans can move to states which are not bankrupting their
citizens through socialism.
How about saying government should handle all really bad car
crashes but let regular auto insurance handle the crashes which
aren’t too bad? The whole idea is ridiculous, and can only end
badly, as every government program does, both in terms of quality
and cost.
I have read the Blunt
Amendment, and it’s pretty straight-forward. If you read it and
you really think it’s tyrannical, then you should read 1984.
Actually, you don’t need to because your mind is already in that
world. The only way the Blunt Amendment is tyrannical is if you
also think black is white, and war is peace. The tyranny — the
only tyranny in this whole discussion — is the tyranny of the
federal government imposing the current government’s will on the
citizens of the United States. It is truly stunning that you
believe it is government tyranny to allow an organization to live
by its moral precepts. How you can hold that thought in your head
without an aneurysm is remarkable. Do you not see the similarities
between your view and those of any of the world’s most horrific
dictators?
I would also point out that the leftists who are so happy with
Obamacare now won’t be happy the next time that conservatives (of
which I am not one) have control of the White House and both houses
of Congress. They will then use this extreme social engineering
power to implement policies you (and perhaps I) would really hate,
but you will have no moral high ground to stand on since you’ve
already shown your willingness to use government to implement
social policy. I have made this argument to conservatives when they
had control, but of course libertarians are routinely ignored when
people think they know what’s best for our private lives.
I’m sorry, Erik, but your view represents a disturbing but all
too common complete abandonment of the fundamental principles of
this nation, of what rights really are, and of the nature of
government. This debate isn’t really about contraception. It is
about religious freedom and limited government, neither of which
you understand. It might give you some consolation to know that you
are not alone in your ignorance of American principles. But for me
it just represents what a long and difficult path it will be to
return our nation, even if only slightly, back toward the path of
constitutionally limited government which our Founders wisely
created.
Don’t forget, Erik, the most important political document in
human history, the Declaration of Independence, says that we all
have the right to pursue happiness, not to be guaranteed
happiness by redistributing the property of others. Furthermore, it
makes clear — whether you believe in God or not — that rights
come from our all being “created equal”, and therefore that rights
do not come from government. Every “right” you have claimed to
believe in can only come from government, and therefore it cannot,
in any truly American sense, be a right at all.
I hope you will consider these words seriously, and perhaps
change your view, though I think it’s a longshot. For your
edification, I would be happy to mail you (or anyone else who
promises to read it) a copy of Bastiat’s seminal “The Law”; it is
one of the most important (but barely known) expositions on
(against) expansive government ever written. You can read it in one
evening, and if your mind is open to persuasion, it will leave you
as a new person, politically speaking.
DRed| 3.6.12 @ 12:40PM
Speaking as a leftist, Ross, I don't know many of my fellows who are happy with 'Obamacare' at all.
I'd also like to point out a few errors in your article. Not all birth control costs $9 a month. Not all women can take all forms of birth control.
Second, contraception is somewhat different than a windshield wiper. Contraceptive care allows a woman more personal freedom. A windshield wiper doesn't liberate you from the constraints of biology. Did your wife ever take contraceptives as a younger woman? If so, ask her why.
Finally, Ms. Fluke wasn't demanding that the taxpayers pay for her contraceptive care. No tax money goes to Georgetown Law School to pay for students health care. I would imagine Ms. Fluke's insurance provider would want to give her access to contraception, rather than being on the hook for the costs of a possible pregnancy. Libertarians like you can't seem to see that the only threat to liberty comes from the government.
And finally, I don't think you're waging a war on women. I don't agree with all libertarian philosophy, but I respect it. However, if you look at the conservatives who you support, and look at how they react to Rush's vile, 3 day, falsehood filled slut shaming campaign, I think you might understand why women think the Republican right is anti-woman.
Ross Kaminsky | 3.6.12 @ 1:22PM
DRed,
I did note that the $9/month birth control was for "the most common" type of pill. I did not say that all women can take that. But it doesn't matter to my point. Even if it's $20 or $30 per month, it is not for government to mandate.
Women have "personal freedom" without government mandating free stuff for them.
Contraceptives are the same as windshield wipers in the way that I described: They are expected to be used, routinely used, and not an economic hardship for most.
My issue is about a government mandate far more than it is about spending taxpayer money. The mandate will both force people to violate their own religious views as well as potentially force up the cost of health insurance.
As I said, if insurance companies decide on their own that it makes sense to offer contraception to save costs of maternity, that's fine, but they should not be forced to do so.
Rush's choice of words was stupid. But the real war on women is from the left, who treat women as if they are poor, stupid, and incapable of getting through life by making their own decisions.
That said, there is no doubt that the right is losing the argument today among the majority of Americans who don't actually understand the principles that conservatives and libertarians are trying to point out.
This is about liberty and limited government. It's the left's spin about "women's health" that is the distraction here.
DRed| 3.6.12 @ 2:00PM
Ross, I think your problem is that you assume your allies on the right agree with the your view of the issue. You, as far as I can tell, genuinely believe this is only an issue of liberty and limited government. Go read the comment threads on this controversy and see how many of your readers share that idea, and see how many are obsessed with thoughts about evil sluts having tons and tons of sex. Rush spend 3 days falsely accusing Ms. Fluke of having so much sex she couldn't afford it (which shows how well informed he is) and implying that she was a tramp. That's not a poor 'choice of words'-that's a poor choice of worldview. Rush has built his career, in part, on his pathetic misogyny. I don't think it's a coincidence that he's on Mrs. Limbaugh #4. I understand your libertarian beliefs are sincere, and you're not motivated by hatred of women, but by ignoring that part of the radical rights motivation you provide ideological cover for their hatred. If anything, someone like you should be even angrier at Rush than I am.
Todd S| 3.6.12 @ 2:57PM
Conservative are anti-tyranny from power hungry clowns like Obama and his supporters like you. Another thing it has been reported is that Ms. Fluke has been advocating for is sex changes to be mandated to be covered by private insurance, do you support that DRed? Who cares about her sexual mores really, she is a lying propagandist pushing her extreme agenda with the help of the Democrat Party. She goes on the Ed Shultz show to denounce Rush Limbaugh, the same Ed Shultz who called Laura Ingraham a slut. What we are angry about are the lies, double standards and hypocrisy we see everyday from the left and their contempt for our Constitution. Rush apologized but the left never apologizes for their lies and slander, they celebrate their lies and depravity. Al Gore is willing to pay that evil clown Keith Olbermann $10 million per year, remember when he called Michelle Malkin a mashed up bag of meat with lipstick? There is some hateful violent anti-women rhetoric for you but I doubt it bothered you much did it DRed?
DRed| 3.6.12 @ 3:07PM
DRed| 5.25.11 @ 6:25PM
I think Ed Schultz is a big fat idiot, and he should be fired
DRed| 5.25.11 @ 8:08PM
Ed has neither class nor decency, and is an embarrassment to liberals across the country. He's an ersatz liberal Rush. Rush (who I can't stand) at least has talent and is really good at what he does. Ed Schultz is a buffoon.
That's me on this site, last year, after Ed Schultz called Laura Ingraham a slut. I try to be consistent in my dislike of misogynists.
Todd S| 3.6.12 @ 3:14PM
Fine enough but hard to see Ms. Fluke as much of a victim when she goes on such a show to cry about it. Best thing to ever happen to her really and she is taking advantage of it as much as she can. She is a lying propagandist, you know her testimony cannot stand the light of day. 40% of Georgetown coed's are having financial difficulties due to birth control? Paying $45,000 per year for education but can't afford $10-20 per month to have a good time? She doesn't seem like the kind that likes guys much anyways, a Rachel Maddow wannabe.
C Bowen | 3.6.12 @ 8:34PM
Didn't Governor Perry, an alleged conservative, want the tax payer to pay for VD medication for 12 year old girls?
Al Adab| 3.6.12 @ 1:45PM
Many years ago, before the cell phone era, I gave my teenage daughter a quarter to carry if she needed to use a pay phone while on a date. I emphasized to her that the best place to carry it was tightly between her knees.
Couple that approach with the fact that today this stuff is free almost anywhere in any event and it become clear this is a non-issue. The entire matter was created as a ploy by the Obama campaign to focus attention on so called "social issues" and away from the economic and fiscal disaster this administration has created. Thje GOP sadly, is stupid enough to fall for it and continues to focus on irrelevant matters rather than on the issues which will elect a republican President and Congress.
Casey Abell| 3.6.12 @ 2:01PM
Russ, I agree with you. Although the article could have used a little editing. Just a leetle, leetle (wink).
But the longer this nonsense about birth control drags on, the worse it is for the GOP. Right now Obama has a swell misery index north of eleven. With the global economy pretty clearly slowing, the index might be even worse in November. Anything that distracts people from the economy is purest political gold for Barry.
Luckily, I think all this contraception claptrap will soon fade, unless Santorum makes a remarkable comeback.
Ross Kaminsky | 3.6.12 @ 2:13PM
Casey, I didn't realize how long the note was while I was writing it, but by that time I had spent so much time on it that I just decided to go with it. But I can't say I disagree with you.
DRed| 3.6.12 @ 2:15PM
Does Obamacare cover logorrhoea?
Ross Kaminsky | 3.6.12 @ 2:35PM
now that's funny
Todd S| 3.6.12 @ 3:21PM
Ross,
I thought it was a great well thought out article with no editing needed but I like to read. I don't see it as just being a distraction, just part of the culture war the left is continually making against our society. Not to mention it concerns 1st amendment rights and the whole apparatus that is Obamacare we will be punished with if we do not defeat them and expose them for what they are doing. The two issues we have to defeat them on is the failure and corruption of the economy under Obama and the tyranny that is Obamacare.
Trinacria| 3.6.12 @ 3:14PM
Ross,
Well done; your article exposes the major fallacies in the argument being advanced by those like Erik who take the bait hook line and sinker without pausing a moment to rationally examine the alleged merits.
There's one additional fallacy that's perhaps worth pointing out. The mandate in question requires that insurance companies provide oral contraceptives without a copay (i.e. at no cost to the insured); this has been justified by Secretary Sebellius and others by claiming that these drugs are used to treat non-contraceptive conditions (acne, endometrial/ovarian cysts, pms) and are therefore medically necessary to ensure the health of women. It should be noted, however, that the government has not mandated the provision (without copay) of any non-contraceptive, FDA-approved therapies that are routinely used to treat these conditions.
Moreover, I just had the pleasure of writing an $11,000 check to cover the copay for the chemotherapeutic agents that were used to treat my mother's stage IV ovarian cancer. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that ovarian cancer is a women's health issue - yet Ms. Sebellius and Ms. Fluke are curiously silent on the need to mandate the provision of ovarian cancer therapies in order to ensure the health of women. Don't get me wrong, I neither expected nor asked for the government to transfer my responsibility to care for my mother to my fellow citizens - the point is that the "women's health issue" argument is invalid on its face (particularly when one considers that the therapy which they characterize as so vitally necessary can be obtained for less than the daily cost of a Starbucks grande latte).
And one other thing - both Ms. Sebellius and your esteemed listener, Erik, defended the cost of providing "free" oral contraceptives by citing the tremendous savings from the subsequent decrease in unwanted pregnancies... didn't they just tell us it wasn't about contraception (you know, major women's health issue and all...)?
Mike 3/505| 3.6.12 @ 4:00PM
Ross,
Good article. Like most conservatives, you are at a competitive disadvantage when writing persuasive prose. Conservative ideas require an intellect. They sometimes require several levels of analysis in order to ultimately reach the proper conclusion. Liberalism on the other hand, requires noi intellect, just raw emotion. This is why it is so "sound bitable."
Regards,
Mike