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The Spectacle Blog
In his article about Jewish Republican David Storobin’s efforts to be elected to the New York State Senate next month, Ross Kaminsky notes that the only GOP presidential candidate to earn 40% of the Jewish vote since Warren Harding in 1920 was when Dwight Eisenhower was re-elected in 1956. However, Ronald Reagan did come quite close to that figure in 1980 when he earned 39% of the Jewish vote in his landslide victory over Jimmy Carter. It was the first time a Democratic presidential candidate had received less than 50% of the Jewish vote since James Cox could only muster 19% of the Jewish vote in 1920. Socialist Eugene Debs received twice as many Jewish votes.
Although Reagan lost some of the Jewish vote in 1984 he still managed to garner 31% of it. In 1988, George H.W. Bush recevied 35% of the Jewish vote although four years later it would collapse to 11%, representing the lowest total received by any GOP candidate since Barry Goldwater attained 10% of the Jewish vote despite the fact his father was Jewish. Of course, some of that owed to the presence of Ross Perot on the ballot but a lot of that decline was due to the elder Bush’s overt hostility towards Israel. Arguably the greatest foreign policy differential between Bush 41 and Bush 43 was over Israel. Indeed, George W. Bush actually picked up Jewish support in 2004 going from 19% to 24%. In 2008, John McCain won 22% of the Jewish vote against 78% for Barack Obama.
Over the past five presidential elections, Democratic candidates have been able to rely on between 75% to 80% of the voting age Jewish population to support them. That’s not as high as FDR who received between 80% to 90% of the Jewish vote even though he didn’t lift a finger to rescue Jews persecuted in Europe during the WWII despite the best efforts of his Treasury Secretary Henry Morgenthau. Still, Jews remain a reliable constituency for Democrats and I suspect this will be the case in 2012 although I don’t think Obama gets 78% of the Jewish vote this time around.
There is no doubt that President Obama’s anti-Israel posture hasn’t done him any favors but it probably won’t hurt him all that much either. I suspect this in part because Obama hasn’t said much about Israel recently and has let others in the Administration do the talking for him most notably Defense Secretary Leon Panetta. Unless Obama steps into the breach again close to election time (which is a possibility where it concerns Israel and Iran) much of what Obama has said about Israel will have been forgotten. There are, of course, many Jews who simply don’t care about Israel and aren’t particularly concerned about Iran’s intentions toward the Jewish State as demonstrated in this 2010 interview Bill O’Reilly conducted with Jon Stewart. Indeed, some Jews engage in moral equivalence between Israel and terrorist organizations like Hamas as has Stewart himself.
This isn’t to say that Jews are particularly pleased with Obama where it concerns Israel. Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz comes to mind as he recently likened Media Matters to the Reverend Jeremiah Wright? Dershowitz has gone as far as to say, “The Obama Administration cannot have Media Matters and me or people who look to me for advice. We cannot be in the same tent. The tent is not big enough to include us.” Well, to start with, Reverend Wright didn’t stop Obama from being elected and if Obama’s association with Reverend Wright didn’t stick why would his association with Media Matters? Furthermore, it’s hard to imagine the likes of Dershowitz voting for Romney, Santorum or Gingrich, never mind Ron Paul. To the extent that there are liberal Jews who are offended by Obama’s anti-Israel policies, I think it’s far more likely that they would stay home rather than vote Republican. Of course, if enough Democrats were to stay home on election day it could cost Obama the election but it still isn’t the same thing as voting Republican.
So why don’t Jews vote Republican in large numbers? The most fundamental reason is that many Jews believe (fairly or not) that Republicans are hostile towards racial minorities, women, immigrants (be they legal or illegal) and the LGBTG community. Many Jews intrinsically identify with groups who are seen as being on the short end of the stick and see themselves (and in some cases members of their family) in their position and thus feel compelled to speak out and act on their behalf. As Rabbi Hillel asked, “If I am only for myself, than what am I?” In the grand scheme of things, it is only natural to wonder, “Well, if Republicans don’t like gays and lesbians then what do they think of me?” Now I happen to think some of that thinking is unfair especially where it concerns racial minorities although I do think there’s credence to it when it comes to the LGBTG community.
Nevertheless, while many Jews keep Rabbi Hillel’s second question in mind, in so doing they forget his first and most important question, “If I am not for myself, then who is for me?” For Jewish voters sympathetic both to Israel and gay rights, it is worth remembering that both President Obama and Rick Santorum think marriage should be between a man and a woman. With this in mind, would you rather hedge your bets with Rick Santorum who has stood up for Israel while having spent years warning us about Iran long before making its nuclear ambitions known? Or would you rather stick with President Obama who is angrier at Israel for building housing in Jerusalem than he is at Iran for building a nuclear weapon?
View all comments (105) | Leave a comment
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albert constantine jr| 2.17.12 @ 12:22PM
Oy, gevalt.
Jack in Wi.| 2.17.12 @ 9:02PM
The Jews are a tiny minority of the Republican vote. Most of those voters come in 2 groups libertarians and crackpot zionists. The libertarians have some rational reasons to vote conservative and can be appealed to on issues of liberty and economics. The crackpots are both Trotsykite neocons who are more secular as their old communists connections still linger. The other crackpots are religious fanatics who want to rebuild the Kingdoms of David and Solomon. I say the hell with the crackpots and appeal to Jews as human beings not Jews. State your case, as best you can intellectually, and let the chips fall where they may, without appealing to ethnicity or religion. The same should be done for every other groups who think they should be treated differently. Let the issues dominate not racial or religious politics. Let the Democrats be the party of division. The Republicans do best when they appeal to the better senses.
You will notice I have not commented before on this blog. I think a lot of the comments have been intresting. I read the Israeli press often and noticed that Tel Aviv has been considered the most gay friendly city in the world. What the hell does that have to do with traditional Judiasm? I also remember a old film clip from the war years where a large group of Orthodoax Rabbis were standing up in a line as a one of them spoke. He said in a heavy Yiddeish accent. I implore our President Frankin Delano Roosevelt to help our people. we beseech you help us, help us, help us. Well we all know FDr did little to help the Jews in WW2 or before it. The best advice I could give Jews or anyone else is don't trust politicians.
Dixie Pixie| 2.18.12 @ 6:42PM
Gentlemen, I think you are missing the point.
The Jews do not bring much in the way of votes in the majority of Congressional districts to matter.
Look in the following religious maps.
First the largest religious groups map::::
http://www.valpo.edu/geomet/pi.....bodies.gif
Now look at the Jewish religious map::::
http://www.valpo.edu/geomet/pi.....jewish.gif
No where does the Jews numbers rise to become a majority.
The maps clearly states, to form a winning national coalition a { Catholic / Baptist / Lutheran / Methodist } coalition would cover 96% of all Congressional districts.
Even a Baptist / Catholic alliance would dominate national politics for years to come.
The conclusion is obvious, the Jewish vote is not worth pursuing if it means losing Catholic or Baptist votes.
The Jews may bring intellectual horsepower to an electoral cycle but they don't bring in the votes to win a national election.
Dixie Pixie| 2.18.12 @ 6:48PM
OOPS....Forgot about the Mormons.
Make that a { Catholic / Baptist / Lutheran / Methodist / Mormon } coalition.
Sorry about that Mittens.
Quartermaster| 2.17.12 @ 12:56PM
Jewish leaders have been notoriously short sighted for centuries. Just read the Old Testament. It reached back into ancient times during the period of the divided Kingdom. It got thousands of them killed in the uprisings of AD 68 and 135, and ended with the nation scattered to the 4 winds.
The real problem is they have abandoned the God that brought them out Israel, and they lean on their "chosen" status to take care of them. The Bible disagrees with that (both OT and NT), but so what, they seem to think. As a result, they have made themselves obnoxious no matter where they have been, and the run of the mill Jew has paid the price for it. By adhering to radical left-wing ideologies, they are doing it again here, the country that has been the friendliest and most accepting in history. As God said ," they are a stiff-necked people," and their rejection of Torah, and the morality God requires of them is once more making them a stench in the nostrils of decent people.
I really wish they would learn.
Vern Crisler| 2.17.12 @ 1:24PM
I don't think it's appropriate to compare modern Jews with the Jews of the Old Testament. Most modern Jews in America are liberal. Quite a number of self-identified Christians are liberal and even socialist as well. It all started with William Jennings Bryan and the Progressive movement, who held to a philosophy that refused to distinguish the moral and the political (as Jesus did in regards to the question about paying tax to Caesar).
God has not completely forsaken his once chosen people, as even today some Jews may acknowledge Jesus as their Savior and Lord.
And now Jews are a part of the almost chosen people (Americans, as Lincoln would say), but unfortuantely they now worship at the feet of Roosevelt rather than Lincoln.
That, however, is no excuse for the sort of anti-semitism expressed in your post. Non-Jews are no better in the sight of God than Jews are because, well, when you get right down to it, we're all a stiff-necked people, and scarce saved.
Occam's Tool| 2.17.12 @ 2:00PM
QM,
with the greatest of all respect, blow me. "Stench in the nostrils of decent people?"
My parents and sister annoy me greatly, but they are not "a stench." Your kids go swimming without worry, QM, because of the work of two Jews in eliminating polio. 25% of all the world's Nobels in all fields (greater in hard sciences) have been won by this "stench."
If I am obnoxious to you, that is fine with me, you pencil necked geek.
W| 2.17.12 @ 10:41PM
OT
QM is consistent. He is equally bigoted about Catholics. He once said here he was sorry about a church burning even if it was Catholic.
Bigotry is usually not divisible.
Warrior | 2.17.12 @ 5:26PM
Spoken like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Just what the hell is a "run of the mill Jew?" They are stench to the nostrils of decent people? Just what makes you or anyone else on this board the judge and jury of what decent people are and how they feel about friends and fellow countrymen who practice the Jewish faith? You sound like a fake conservative with a vicious bigoted streak.
Oldefarte| 2.18.12 @ 2:09PM
QM, your apparent anti-semitism is revolting, since Jews are some of the most kind, most generous people on the face of this earth. The reason why they are adamently hated is because of their intelligence and their professional success in life. They represent the leaders within almost each and every field, be it medicine, law, education, entertainment, etc. Their dedication to their own education is noteworthy among ethnic groups [if African-American could become so dedicated, their welfaric existence and dependence upon the Democratic party would be non-existent]. Jews were driven out of Europe to either America or to Israel due to European hatred of them [to some extent which still exists today]. I don't know why they won't embrace the GOP but that is another issue from what you insinuate above [and is irrelevant to this anti-semitism issue]. No doubt also, if one was to delve into the charitable givings of various ethic groups, no doubt the Jewish community would be at the very top of the listing also!!!!!!!!!
Drek| 2.17.12 @ 12:57PM
You spoke to why many Jews vote Democrat.
But you didn't speak to why so many Jews tend hard left.
David Horowitz, in The Politics of Bad Faith, addressed this exact issue, why do so many Jews support the political agenda of the Left, a political agenda that has resulted in the death of scores of millions of people.
In The Gulag Archipelago, Solzhenitsyn recounts in detail the evil of the Cheka/NKVD/KGB, but then he goes on to ask himself, what would he have done had he been absorbed into their ranks. Horowitz, in Solzhenitsyn fashion, goes on to ask himself if he was truly different from leftists elsewhere. He asks himself would he have been much different from leftist killers elsewhere. And he answers honestly, that the only thing that prevented such horrors here was the impotence of the American left, BUT that their will to dominate was just the same, meaning their will was just as murderous.
Those are the questions that need to be addressed, and even addressed by honestly by men like Anthony Weiner, and his former roomate, Jon Stewart.
Oldefarte| 2.17.12 @ 12:58PM
Aaron, neither you nor Ross address the essential reasons as to why Jews do not support Republicans [and conversely do support Democrats]. The political agendas of the Jewish community would seem to be completely opposite from that of the Democratic Party in most all respects. Sure, racism has affected Jews, but it has also done so for most all other ethnic groups throughout history. The Republican Party's agenda SHOULD appeal to Jews much more so than does the Democratic one. It just makes no sense to me!!!!
JJ| 2.18.12 @ 12:36PM
Which makes me wonder, why the GOP has been so supportive of Israel. Unlike any other ethnic group in the US, the Jews are tied to another nation. Yet despite the GOPs efforts to protect Israel and to give it foreign aid, the Jews don't vote for them.
Oldefarte| 2.18.12 @ 1:53PM
The GOP [and especially its evangelical wing] admire the Jewish flight of tragedy from being driven from Europe and settling within Israel. American Jews are not 'tied to another nation' but instead are family related mostly to Israel. They are also linked by the commonality of their historical struggle with the settlers of Israel. The GOP as you say does support Israel, but the Democrats do not [at least not thie current administration, due to the president's ancesteral connection to the middle east [and therefore to Muslims]. It's astounding that Jew continue to support this Democratic Party [but it's also so why blacks continue their support of the party that seeks its enslavement]. Go figure!!!!
james wilson| 2.17.12 @ 1:04PM
The political culture of Jews is permanently damaged. I never think about it changing, and it never does. But it has changed the rest of us.
Drek| 2.17.12 @ 1:09PM
There's really no talking to them.
You can no more persuade them of the immorality and unwisdom of their support of the Left, than you could speak to some member of Jeremiah Wright's "church," who believes that AIDS was created by the CIA to destroy all black people in Africa and elsewhere. {I've actually met such people by the way, not persons, but people, PLURAL}.
Drek| 2.17.12 @ 1:04PM
I tend to think the answer to the question can be found in Solzhenitsyn's speech upon being conferred with the Templeton Award.
In that speech, he said that the reason why these things have fallen on us can be summed up no more accurately, and succinctly, than by a peasant in the Soviet Union: 'The reason these things have happened is that men have forgotten God."
And that's what we're seeing with the Jewish Left.
How else can we explain their conflating of their own rights with the dubious claims of the LGB "community?" How else can we explain them making their peace with a government of coercive confiscatory taxation? How can we explain their comfort residing in a party that sows envy, bitterness and class confict?
We could go on and on, ----------- but the point is that a spiritual darkening has swept over many an American Jew, {they're not the only ones of course, so let's have no delusion that the problem is limited to that particular segment of our society}.
Horowitz also says that they have conflated their historical task of being a "light unto the nation" with a radical secularizing agenda.
Horowitz develops these points at length.
Quartermaster| 2.17.12 @ 1:10PM
Unfortunately, Horowitz is, at best, a very inconsistent conservative. He has never fully left his radical days behind him, and it has shown on who he published over at front page. I don't even bother going there anymore.
aware| 2.17.12 @ 4:41PM
Yes.
Nobummer| 2.17.12 @ 1:12PM
They are liberals first. Liberal trumps all for the left.
TTL| 2.17.12 @ 1:29PM
Because of their history, I believe most Jews are trans-nationals, and thus always support open borders, mass immigration, "diversity", multi-culturalism, etc.
Also, since so many Jews are in the media and legal professions, many are heard from, pontificating on "social justice".
Ivan| 2.17.12 @ 1:31PM
First quote:"Of course, some of that owed to the presence of Ross Perot on the ballot but a lot of that decline was due to the elder Bush's overt hostility towards Israel."
Second quote: "FDR... received between 80% to 90% of the Jewish vote even though he didn't lift a finger to rescue Jews persecuted in Europe during the WWII"
and 3rd quote:
"Barry Goldwater attained 10% of the Jewish vote despite the fact his father was Jewish."
Does this make any sense to you?
Casey Abell| 2.17.12 @ 1:42PM
Against Santorum I think Obama has no problem hanging onto his 78% of the Jewish vote, and maybe even bettering it. I suspect Goldstein thinks the same. But he toes the line at the Spectator and pleas for Rick.
And, after all, Aaron really, really dislikes Romney. (Can't use the h-word. It's too accurate, er, blunt.)
Ed| 2.17.12 @ 1:51PM
Do left wing/secular jews have any value that is sacred other than the unlimited right to abortion? This seems to be the only "right" that is sacrosant and, with the Dems being the abortion party, it makes sense. The FDR worship is always the most puzzling. He turned back shiploads of jews for slaughter, didn't like jews, and was historically worshipped by the jewish left. Apparently, his socialism outweighed his actual actions and feelings.
Patriot| 2.17.12 @ 2:11PM
Hold on a minute Ed,
In many regions of the US Jews tend to be very 'blue' voters - but not everywhere. You see it where they (blue-voting Jews) are concentrated - but in other regions very much not so.
Also, take a look at Israel - NOT socialist. So it is really not Jewish people loving socialistic ways. Also, many US jews don't care about Israel, although it seems that it would be a priority.
You are right that a 'secular' sacrament is abortion, among other rites and sacraments among the religion of secular-humanism. Also that many leaders of the past whom they (perhaps) feel indebted to - hated them.
The reasons that Jewish people in America are seen as a monolithic bloc are many and complex; they are no more a bloc than any other race, but they do have an internal majority within the relatively small bloc that they are due to population concentration in blue areas. -xx
Ed| 2.17.12 @ 1:54PM
And you would think that a people who were nearly exterminated by an all powerful socialist government would have misgivings about socialism, particularly given the jew hatred expressed by its leftists adherents, and question the wisdom of building an all powerful state. Nah, it doesn't give em a bit of pause.
Imissbuckley| 2.17.12 @ 5:41PM
That's because we've allowed the Left to define the Nazis as Right-wing.
Bob K.| 2.17.12 @ 6:28PM
It was German Nationalism that scared the hell out of everybody-not the German Socialism part of it. Hitler and his leaders defined themselves as Nazis and dropped their earlier Nazi-Sozi abbreviation. After the war that fear continued to exist among the victors. It's a bit complex but it does explain that lack of fear of socialism after the war in part.
Derek Leaberry| 2.17.12 @ 2:03PM
I won't venture into specific political issues with my comment but restrict it to the general Jewish disposition. First, no ethnic group in the world has a higher intelligence. Second, no ethnic group in the world values the intellectual life as highly as the Jews. Third, no ethnic group in the world has a higher empathy for other peoples than do Jews. Fourth, the combination of the three above leads to the fact that Jews are more prone to being political and intellectual troublemakers. The combination of the four Jewish characteristics I note leads them to the political left, especially when they are secular and not religious.
Occam's Tool| 2.17.12 @ 2:07PM
Folks, Commentary is one of the best Conservative Magazines out there.
Might I point out that the tone of this thread would not entice me to join your cause if I wasn't already there. The fact is, FDR did a magnificent job of bamboozling American Jews, and it hasn't changed yet. But Obama and the New Left's antisemitism will change things; slowly, to be sure, but eventually. My kids would rather support vampire bats politically than Democrats or Ronulans. I'm indoctrinating them at the age of 8. My son proudly announced that he was a Capitalist at age 3, lisping as he said it.
There is another reason to consider. The ultimate kick ass fighter among Jews (think Benny Leonard and Barney Ross) can go to Israel and join their Special Forces if he wishes. Israel creams off quite a bit of our grouchy Conservative potential, which is why they tend to be more patriotic there than here.
Ed| 2.17.12 @ 2:12PM
That may be true for you but, as a bloc, it certainly is not. The facts about FDR are known. The facts about Obama are known. Certainly, the facts about the national socialist state of Germany are known. At some point, it isn't worth arguing for a group that is numerically small and, apparently, too stubborn or stupid to open their eyes. It's better to move on to other voting blocs.
W| 2.17.12 @ 10:43PM
FDR bamboozled everybody and not just Jews.
Simon Templar| 2.17.12 @ 2:15PM
Yes, it is perplexing why the jewish community tends to support the Left and the Democratic party.
This is the reason.
Many jewish people have associated their persecution with the phenomena of religious zealotry. Of course, there have been real examples of this over the centuries well before Marxism and the Left appeared in history. They have also bought much of the propaganda of the Left's historical revisionism of the twentieth century relative to the anti-semitism in the Left. Nazi?
Yes. They do not see the Leftism of the Nazism but the percieved relgious furvor that the Nazis used for their evil purposes. They are afraid of those that have strong religious convictions.
Want proof of this? Think about the reaction from the leading national rabbi in the US to Tebow's relogious expression in the sports area.
They mistakenly believe they are safer with a secular atheistic ideology and those political partys associated with strong anti-religious orientation.
Oldefarte| 2.17.12 @ 4:41PM
ST: Your thesis if true is truly perplexing and enlightening on this subject. As a lifelong Catholic, I'm aware of the partial historical friction between the Church and the Jewish faith going back to Pope Pius' avoidance of speaking out during the Holocost against Nazi Germany, but to my knowledge same relations have now been repaired. Also, evangelical Christians are now adamently supporting Israel's political positions in the middle east [as opposed to our government's hostile relationship with Israel], so I would think that again Jews would not be agitated by religious ferver as you indicate. It's just not understandable as to why [from any standpoint] more Jews are not supportive of the Republican Party!!!!
Clint| 2.17.12 @ 5:59PM
Tell The Truth Liar Lapsed Catholic Ax Grinder, Fart Man.
" For nearly 20 years after World War II, Pope Pius XII (1939-1958) was honored by the world for his actions in saving countless Jewish lives in the face of the Nazi Holocaust. His death on October 9, 1958 brought a moment of silence from Leonard Bernstein while he conducted at New York’s Carnegie Hall.1 Golda Meir, future Israeli Prime Minister and then Israeli representative to the United Nations, spoke on the floor of the General Assembly: “During the ten years of Nazi terror, when our people went through the horrors of martyrdom, the Pope raised his voice to condemn the persecutors and commiserate with the victims.”2 In his book Hitler, the War and the Pope (Genesis Press, August 2000), author Ronald Rychlak provides a sampling of some of the Jewish organizations that praised Pope Pius XII at the time of his death for saving Jewish lives during the horror of the Nazi Holocaust: the World Jewish Congress, the Anti-Defamation League, the Synagogue Council of America, the Rabbinical Council of America, the American Jewish Congress, the New York Board of Rabbis, the American Jewish Committee, the Central Conference of American Rabbis, the American Jewish Committee, the Central Conference of American Rabbis, the National Conference of Christians and Jews and the National Council of Jewish Women."
Simon Templar| 2.17.12 @ 6:22PM
Calm down Clint. You are absolutely correct.
Unfortunately, most people have the opposite perception of the Catholic church during this historical period particularly because leftist have brainwashed many people into thinking what OF was echoing, it has now become a common understanding, false or not. OF's point was why do they continue to mistrust conservatives, the faithful, christians, etc. even after they have helped them, apologized for any wrong doing, and seem to share the same values. Why do they continue to support the Left?
Clint, what is YOUR opinion on this issue? Do not give me qoutes. I want to know what you think, your words, your thoughts.
Clint| 2.17.12 @ 11:45PM
I Think Cynical False Revisionists Have Hijacked The Holocaust For Cheap Agenda Driven Gains At The Expense Of The Truth.
" Of the 11 million people killed during the Holocaust, six million were Polish citizens. Three million were Polish Jews and another three million were Polish Christians and Catholics. Most of the remaining mortal victims were from other countries including Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Ukraine, Russia, Holland, France and even Germany."
My Dad's Recon Troopers Liberated One Of Those Nazi Satellite Death Camps On Their First Army Line Of March.
Oldefarte| 2.18.12 @ 2:52PM
That's the biggest pile of excrement ever issues, but typical of Clit!!!!!!
Clint| 2.18.12 @ 6:53PM
You're The Deceitful Lapsed Catholic Ax Grinder Mother Of All Poop Piles And You're World Class Stinky Too, Fart Man.
Oldefarte| 2.19.12 @ 11:49AM
Drop to your knees and open wide now Clit, cause Paulie Boys a comin'!!!!!!
Oldefarte| 2.18.12 @ 3:00PM
I do not echo leftist propaganda.....I am a Catholic of 66 years, including 4 [of 12 hours of Catholic university theology and philosophy]. If I 'echo' anything its the TRUTH, which is completely foreign to Clit-the-Paulie-Boy here. THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!!!!!!!
Simon Templar| 2.18.12 @ 4:11PM
OF, I am afraid you are wrong on this one. I am not trying to insult you or takes sides with Clint, which I say is a bit ackward to say the least for me.
Nor am I implying that you just accept everything the Left has told you. I do not believe you would intentionally lie or echo a lie. Of course you do not. My apologies, if it sounded that way.
The catholic church has been painted by the Left as having done nothing to help, defend, or save the Jews during World War II. In fact, they have made the claim that they actually colluded with Hitler. This is a gross lie and a huge historical revisionism that many have been pursuaded to believe.
While the Pope at times "appeared" publically to remain neutral on the issue, he was in fact directing and organizing the largest underground refugee system Europe has ever known hiding, protecting, and feeding hundreds of thousands of jews in secret. Many of them were posing as nuns, priest, and living in convents and monasteries all over Europe. Some were even hiding in the Vatican. This is well documented and not my opinion. This is why Golda Meir made her speech of gratitude and thanks to all those who helped these thousands escape.
Hitler was meeting with the Pope for propaganda purposes trying to create the impression that this church was on his side and he had support of his policies. While he was meeting behind closed doors he was threatening them that if they took anymore outward public stands or resistance, he would destroy them literally. Now, there were indeed photo ops and some of the things you quote are true but not the whole story as the church was actively resisting covertly and defying Hitler at great peril if caught.
Did you know there were concentration camps in Italy? Did you know that the Jews lived there quite well, were taken care of, not injured by their captors? Did you know that the commanders of these camps refused to persecute them and told Rome to stick it where the sun don't shine? Did you know that these thousands of Jews came back to these camps for reunions with the villagers and camp officers every year since the War? Did you know that these many of these jews stayed after the war and married local villagers?
W| 2.18.12 @ 6:22PM
Simon,
You may be interested in a book "It Happened in Italy" by Elizabeth Bettina. She has a website www.ElizabethBettina.com about the camps in Italy. She has done much research in this area. Let me know what you think.
Simon Templar| 2.18.12 @ 7:38PM
Thank you W. I read the book last year.
Thought it was great. I was particularly impressed with the rerearch that she put into this book like her actually finding the people who were witness to this all over the world, interviewing them, flying to Italy, meeting the old timers in the village, and gathering some incredible documentation and stories. Should be made into a movie.
The story particularly of the children was quite moving. The commandant of the camp with his wife decide to take the kids out for gelato (ice cream) one day and the parents saw the trucks used to transport them and freaked out not knowing what was going on. They heard rumors of death camps in Germany and elsewhere and were obviously frightened. The commandant apologized and explained. Incredible. Inspiring story. Gives hope to all that this human race might be worth saving and might be redeemable.
Hats off to the Italian people! The kindness and protectiveness of the italian people for their jewish neighbors was amazing. The villagers actually helped them build a synagogue in the camp.
W| 2.18.12 @ 10:13PM
Simon,
I read the book last month and was impressed. I had a couple of emails with Ms Bettina and she is working on a documentary to supplement her book. Her website has part of the documentary.
You are probably familiar with Carlo Levi's book "Christ Stopped at Eboli." It is Levis's true story of how he was "exiled" to a small Italian town Eboli by Mussolini. Levi was an Italian Jew and became the doctor to the town. It was also made into a movie. The name came from a town legend that the town was so miserable and poor that Jesus Christ took one look at it and would not cross the river Eboli.
Oldefarte| 2.19.12 @ 11:46AM
Of course I knew that, and my point to DA Clit is NOT that your stated actions by the Church were not being carried out, but that the Church refused to use it political bully pulpit against what Germany and Hitler were known to have been doing. There's are famous scenes in the great movie JUDGEMENT AT NEURENBURG [sp?] between Spencer Tracy and Marlenia Dietrich about wheterh or not the German people actually KNEW of what the Nazies were doing to Jews. the obvious answer was that OF COURSE THEY KNEW....HOW COULD THEY NOT KNOW? In fact, the US government knew [how could you no know after Hitler invaded Poland?] and did nothing about it [until Pearl Harbor's attack by the Japanese]. Everyone, the Catholic Church, the USA, the world at large KNEW but did nothing but kept silent and placated Hitler's attrocities. That is my point, not that the Church did not do as you state, but that they [and others] KEPT THEIR MOUTHS SHUT OUT OF FEAR OF NAZI REPRISALS. Just as with today's situation of our government. Everyone knew who this president is/was and they still voted for him in 2008. Why? Now they are reaping what they sowed three years ago sadly. It's all their fault for not speaking out, for not taking thorough action to prevent his election. If the powerful Church, the rest of Europe, the USA had spoken out aginst Hitler and the Nazi movement starting with its uprising in 1933, maybe Nazi Germany would have been non-existent in history!!!!!!!!!!
Clint| 2.18.12 @ 8:01PM
You're A Phoney Cafeteria Catholic.
" Oldefarte| 4.23.11 @ 1:39PM
No one will like what I'm about to say, but it is the truth [sadly] and I dare anyone to factually prove it otherwise. I am a born, raised and [for 16 years] educated Catholic who favors abortion being provided by the government. If there was a way to the government to force birth control upon society and for same to be truly effective in purpose, I'd be against abortion; but since ther is not such a way, abortion as birth control of the last resort is the only available effective option."
You're Up Pretend Catholic, Fart Man.
Oldefarte| 2.19.12 @ 11:31AM
90% of Catholics practice some form of birth control, MORON! Also DA, how is the government going to be capable of decreasing welfare if [mainly] minorities [who cannot afford to financially support their birthed children and therefore depend upon the government to do so] don't stop having children? What your solution DA? Adoption? Yeah right, all of the unwanted and absued children will be saved by you DA so-called Catholics willing to adopt them [right....AND THE COW JUMPED OVER THE MOON too]!!!!!!!!!
Oldefarte| 2.18.12 @ 2:20PM
Clit, as usual you don't ID your sourced material. For all anyone knows, it probably came forth from inside Paulies' RULES FOR LIBERITARIAN RADICALS!!!!!!!!!
Oldefarte| 2.18.12 @ 2:49PM
Clit, this is from Wiki, DA. Once again and ALWAYS, you are a GD liar that makes the current president resemble a choir boy [or possibly a Paulie Boy w/too short shorts perhaps]:
'....Pius XII has been accused of not making strong enough protests against the murder of the Jews.The Vatican was prohibited by the Lateran Treaty from intervening in political matters, and likewise by the German concordat – any breach of which by the Vatican would justify further breaches by the Nazis. The Italians themselves argued that any criticisms of Germany were political interventions in breach of the Lateran treaty, since Germany was Italy ’s ally.Another reason proffered for Pius' reluctance to do so was a perceived need for firm proof that would be sustainable in any diplomatic exchanges or in the court of world opinion; unproven (and demonstrably false accusations) had been made regarding atrocities allegedly committed by German troops during World War I. Furthermore, without being even-handed and condemning Stalin’s atrocities against Soviet and Polish citizens, the Pope would be vulnerable to accusations of bias against the Nazis; such an accusation could have seriously undermined the influence the Vatican might have over German Catholics. The Allies were exceedingly anxious to prevent a Papal condemnation of Stalin, which would have hurt the Allied effort.[Note 1]
Pius XII also never publicly condemned the Nazi massacre of 1.8 - 1.9 million mainly Catholic Polish gentiles (including 2,935 members of the Catholic Clergy),[75][76] nor did he ever publicly condemn the Soviet Union for the deaths of 1,000,000 mainly Catholic Polish gentile citizens including an untold number of clergy.[77]
In a letter to Konrad von Preysing, Bishop of Berlin, Pius referred to the Nazi retribution in Holland as one reason why he offered only muted criticism in his public statements:"We leave it to the [local] bishops to weigh the circumstances in deciding whether or not to exercise restraint, ad maiora mala vitanda [to avoid greater evil]. This would be advisable if the danger of retaliatory and coercive measures would be imminent in cases of public statements of the bishop. Here lies one of the reasons We Ourselves restrict Our public statements. The experience We had in 1942 with documents which We released for distribution to the faithful gives justification, as far as We can see, for Our attitude."In a conversation with Archbishop Giovanni Battista Montini (later Pope Paul VI), Pius said, "We would like to utter words of fire against such actions; and the only thing restraining Us from speaking is the fear of making the plight of the victims worse" [78].In December 1942, when Tittman asked Cardinal Secretary of State Maglione if Pius would issue a proclamation similar to the Allied declaration "German Policy of Extermination of the Jewish Race", Maglione replied that the Vatican was "unable to denounce publicly particular atrocities."[79] However, in his Christmas address the Pope expressed his concerns for the “hundreds of thousands who, through no fault of their own, and solely because of their nation or race, have been condemned to death or progressive extinction.”A month later Ribbentrop wrote to the German Ambassador to the Holy See: “there are signs that the Vatican is likely to renounce its traditional neutral attitude and take up a political position against Germany . You are to inform him (the Pope) that in that event Germany does not lack physical means of retaliation.” The Ambassador reported that Pius indicated that “he did not care what happened to himself, but that a struggle between Church and State could have only one outcome – the defeat of the State. I replied that I was of the contrary opinion….. an open battle could bring some very unpleasant surprises for the Church. … Pacelli (Pius XII) is no more sensible to threats than we are. In event of an open breach with us, he now calculates that some German Catholics will leave the Church but he is convinced that the majority will remain true to their Faith. And that the German Catholic clergy will screw up its courage, prepared for the greatest sacrifices.”
On April 30, 1943, Pius wrote to Bishop Von Preysing of Berlin to say: "We give to the pastors who are working on the local level the duty of determining if and to what degree the danger of reprisals and of various forms of oppression occasioned by episcopal declarations... ad maiora mala vitanda (to avoid worse)... seem to advise caution. Here lies one of the reasons, why We impose self-restraint on Ourselves in our speeches; the experience, that we made in 1942 with papal addresses, which We authorized to be forwarded to the Believers, justifies our opinion, as far as We see.... The Holy See has done whatever was in its power, with charitable, financial and moral assistance. To say nothing of the substantial sums which we spent in American money for the fares of immigrants."[80]....'
Oldefarte| 2.18.12 @ 2:55PM
PS Clit : Read Pope Pius' own words, DA !!!!
Clint| 2.18.12 @ 8:15PM
Do Your Homework Before You Spew Your Slandering Anti-Catholic Crap, Fart Man.
" Pius XII publicly and privately warned of the dangers of Nazism. Throughout World War II, he spoke out on behalf of Europe’s Jews. When Pius learned of the Nazi atrocities in Poland, he urged the bishops of Europe to do all they could to save the Jews and other victims of Nazi persecution. On January 19, 1940, at the Pope’s instruction, Vatican radio and L’Osservatore Romano revealed to the world “the dreadful cruelties of uncivilized tyranny” that the Nazis were inflicting on Jewish and Catholic Poles. The following week, the Jewish Advocate of Boston reported the Vatican radio broadcast, praising its “outspoken denunciation of German atrocities in Nazi [occupied] Poland, declaring they affronted the moral conscience of mankind.”
" A Righteous Gentile: Pope Pius XII and the Jews
February 26, 2001 by admin
Filed under Pope Pius XII and the Holocaust
By Rabbi David Dalin
About The Author
Rabbi David G. Dalin, a widely-published scholar of American Judaism and the history of Christian-Jewish Relations, is the author or co-author of five books, including Religion and State in the American Jewish Experience, published by the University of Notre Dame Press in 1997 and, most recently, The President of the United States and the Jews. His article, “Pius XII and the Jews,” was published in the February 26, 2001 issue of the Weekly Standard, and was reprinted in the August-September issue of Inside the Vatican, published in Rome. Rabbi Dalin is a member of the Editorial Advisory Board of the journal First Things, and a member of the Board of Governors of Sacred Heart University’s Center for Christian Jewish understanding. He is now writing a new book, tentatively entitled: Two Popes and the Jews: Pius XII and John Paul II."
http://www.catholicleague.org/.....-the-jews/
Clint| 2.18.12 @ 8:07PM
Do Your Own Homework Lazy Ass RINO-CINO Ax Grinding Catholic Bashing, Pretend Catholic, Fart Man.
Hint: Catholic League.
Oldefarte| 2.19.12 @ 11:21AM
Clit, I can;t believe how stupid you apparently are. 'The Catholic League'? Do you think perhaps that they are a bit prejudiced in their opinions? That like referencing the ACLU concerning the Democratic Party, don't you think? Give me wome more quotation from the Knights of Columbus also, okay? Oh, and 'slandering' ie falsehoods..........prove my sourced independent source material above false, dummie! 'Anti-Catholic' ? I've got 16 years of Catholic formal education.......HOW MANY DO YOU HAVE, TOO SHORT SHORTS????????? Just because you're a Lewinskyafied constant [and unquestioning] dildo sucker of Ronnie and the sometimes BS of the Catholic Church, that doesn't mean that the resto of us are so. It's people like you who STUPIDLY adhere to the word-for-word proclamations of institutions of failed humans and selfish politicians that allow same to remain unchanged and unwilling to change their erroneous ways for the betterment of themsleves and their followers!!!!!!!!!!!!
Clint| 2.20.12 @ 7:06AM
Duuuuuuuuhhhhh !
You're A Phoney Plastic Ax Grinding Lapsed Catholic Buffoon, Fart Man.
By Rabbi David Dalin
About The Author
Rabbi David G. Dalin, a widely-published scholar of American Judaism and the history of Christian-Jewish Relations, is the author or co-author of five books, including Religion and State in the American Jewish Experience, published by the University of Notre Dame Press in 1997 and, most recently, The President of the United States and the Jews. His article, “Pius XII and the Jews,” was published in the February 26, 2001 issue of the Weekly Standard, and was reprinted in the August-September issue of Inside the Vatican, published in Rome. Rabbi Dalin is a member of the Editorial Advisory Board of the journal First Things, and a member of the Board of Governors of Sacred Heart University’s Center for Christian Jewish understanding. He is now writing a new book, tentatively entitled: Two Popes and the Jews: Pius XII and John Paul II."
http://www.catholicleague.org/.....-the-jews/
Simon Templar| 2.17.12 @ 6:11PM
Perhaps, the following article by Evan Sayet will illuminate,
http://frontpagemag.com/2012/0.....rman-jews/
Please remember that the vast number of American jews are secular Jews. Israel itself was founded by an American secular jew. The values of practicing Orthodox and religiously faithful jewish people are certainly aligned with conservatavism and many of them are conservative.
Karl Marx ancestry was Jewish, with his paternal line having supplied the rabbis of Trier since 1723, a role that had been taken up by his own grandfather, Meier Halevi Marx. The Russian revolution was led by many jewish secular revolutionaries.
They do not fear a big secular government per se, they fear religious extremism and they associate it with theocracy, the right wing, and the faithful as being their greatest threat. This has been a long standing fear and misperception. Washington and Jefferson had to go to The Temple and speak with the American jewish community and calm their fears whereby Jefferson coined the phrase, "seperation of church and state." He let them know that they would not be persecuted by the state as the state would allow all faiths to flourish, not interfere with them, and pass no law restricting them or persecuting them.
Dixie Pixie| 2.17.12 @ 8:20PM
Simon....I think you have found a major piece of the puzzle.
Another factor may be location.
See the below map::::
http://www.valpo.edu/geomet/pi.....jewish.gif
Notice the major clusters are in the New York, Miami, LA, San Francisco and Las Vegas areas.
All are notorious hotspots of Liberalism / Socialism.
Which brings up the interesting question of whether Jews cluster in those areas because they are Liberal or are those areas Liberal because the Jews create a Liberal environment wherever they reside.
Another piece may be simple Jewish bigotry.
A classic close-knit cluster culture does tend to self-reenforce some very strange ideas which are difficult to change as that group clusters in self-protection to avoid the majority culture and its ideas.
Jews would be especially resistance to a change in their belief structure as their existence is predicated by their religious beliefs and traditions.
1ConservativeUSA| 2.17.12 @ 2:38PM
Well done, Mr. Goldstein.
PattyMor| 2.17.12 @ 2:48PM
Well how did big government in Russia and Germany work out for them? And think it couldn't happen here. Read the internet. There is open hostility to Jews on college campuses. The Occupy Wall Street is a Democrat operation, funded by Soros and his ilk. Its openly anti-Jewish. For them Banking=Jew. "J" Street is openly anti-Israel, also funded by Soros.
Ed| 2.17.12 @ 3:03PM
Therein lies the frustration. All these things are clear, out in the open and as plain as day. And, generalizing and realizing that it is not universal, jews are oblivious. Look at the last election. Ed Koch: going down and stumping for Obama in Florida- suddenly he realizes something isn't kosher about BO; Mort Zuckerman: Wow, Obama really is a class warfare guy whose policies are destroying the economy-I couldn't have seen that coming when I was slobbering all over him; Alan Dershowitz-Amazing, a guy who sat in the church of a jew hater might just hate jews and align himself with those who hate jews-hey, I'm a jew, what am I doing voting for him (Oh, yeah, I can't vote Republican, might as well vote for him anyway).
Anommynous| 2.17.12 @ 4:46PM
In fairness to Ed Koch, at least he supported Bush in '04 on foreign policy grounds. In '08 he felt the world was safe enough (thanks to Bush) that he could vote for a socialist agenda again. He didn't think Obama would be this hostile to Israel.
irmaladuce| 2.17.12 @ 4:37PM
The problem for Jews in Russia & Germany was not "big government," dummy. It was anti-semitism.
aware| 2.17.12 @ 4:57PM
There's always been antisemitism but only really big government can make a Holocaust. Only the State is capable of organizing such "public works".
And I just point out a lot of non Jews ended up dead too without the antisemitism. Just being an enemy of the State was enough.
Ed| 2.17.12 @ 5:03PM
You need big, overarching and controlling government to commit the slaughters like those in Germany. If you see a big government on the horizon that has similar anti-semitism/hatred of jews, you wouldn't have to be a genius to think that you might want to think twice about supporting it. Again, however, the jewish bloc is oblivious. And, I'm not interested in "fairness" to Ed Koch. He's an ally who will turn on you in a heartbeat-you know he will because he has in the past.
irmaladuce| 2.17.12 @ 6:16PM
Do you have any idea how many times in European history alone Jews were rounded up, executed and displaced? The only constant was anti-semetism.
I love all the semi-regularly posts on right-wing blogs: "why won't this [historically persecuted minority] support the GOP?" Read this comment thread. Between the self-serving, ahistorical fantasies & outright hostility, is it really any wonder?
Simon Templar| 2.17.12 @ 6:46PM
Yes, we do. Particularly in the past century. Who was doing the rounding up and just what philosophy or political movements were doing the rounding up? Was it the GOP or American conservatives? Self serving ahistorical fantasies?
Outright hostility?
Yeah, I know it is easier to just lump everyone together, slop up the baloney you have been fed, and call it a day. Did you know that OT is a jew, proud of it, and a conservative?
Do you want a discussion, a true search for the truth, and some honest intellectual debate or are you out here to promote more dishonesty, divisiveness, and your own ahistorical fantasies.
MochaLite| 2.17.12 @ 4:48PM
I think that most American Jews are "cradle liberals" and live in communities where they never learn conservatism. Then, they are also optimists who, despite all evidence to the contrary, never believe that "it" could happen here.
teflon93| 2.17.12 @ 4:50PM
Because they would rather see Israel vaporized than abortion criminalized.
Red Phillips | 2.17.12 @ 5:33PM
Why is it that conservative Christians take the Old Testament more seriously than do most Jews? The Old Testament explicitly condemns homosexuality. In fact, it was a capital offense. Jews have no excuse for their support of gay marriage other than loss of faith.
Jeff Krasney| 2.17.12 @ 6:03PM
Modern Jews vote Democrat because we feel more hostile toward evangelical white Christians than we do toward any other group, and evangelicals vote overwhelmingly Republican. It is almost a purely reactionary impulse. However, as crazy as this sounds, most Jews prefer the likes of Jeremiah Wright to the likes of Jerry Falwell because we view Falwell as more dangerous to our continued existence as a people.
I think this is all crazy because younger Jews aren't having anywhere near enough children to maintain our existence for another two generations. We are actually doomed to disappear except for a small group of Orthodox who still have large families.
Simon Templar| 2.17.12 @ 6:34PM
Thank you for confirming my thesis and being honest. It is time we understand each other and work toward removing these barriers, misunderstanding, and fear.
rightasrain| 2.17.12 @ 6:58PM
It's hard to tell which came first, however, the liberalism or the hostility. I think that in the early part of the 20th century, the image of Republicans was one to which Jews could not relate. Republicans were cold-blooded, old-money WASPs who belonged to the DAR, the country club and the Junior League. They swilled single malt and wintered in Gstaad and summered in Newport. When Jews caught up in money, power and influence, the image of Republicans had turned 180 degrees to that of Bible-thumping, gun-toting, pick-up driving, intellectually-challenged rednecks. The past and present stereotypes of Republicans was and is not a good fit for most Jews.
C Bowen | 2.17.12 @ 6:36PM
Jews apparently do not have dual loyalty and don't make political decision based on policy towards a foreign country.
Goldstein, who apparently agrees with the anti-Jew crowd are simply incorrect.
Nevertheless, they are liberals and are against the culture of the majority, and that is an issue.
a jew| 2.17.12 @ 7:05PM
You all miss the point completely. Jews do not vote GOP because GOP is the party of the christians and jews cannot stand christions with their false beliefs in a fictituous man they call god.
AVCurmudgeon| 2.18.12 @ 6:12PM
Thanks for pointing out that the votes of Jews, people who demand tolerance above all else, are driven by their own intolerance.
Fortunately enough, you are wrong. From what I know there is a broad spectrum within the Jewish community that understands that the most steadfast base of support of Israel is precisely among conservative Christians. Thanks for playing.
Raymond| 2.17.12 @ 7:05PM
Jews who have given up on Judaism vote liberal. Just like liberal Catholics.
teflon93| 2.17.12 @ 8:30PM
This is spot on. The faithful vote conservative, whether Catholic, Baptist, Orthodox, or Jew.
With God all things r possible| 2.17.12 @ 8:00PM
Jews have the unenviable combination of two unmistakable traits.
The first is that they are greatly blessed by God. The number of Nobel prizes and their achievement across all levels of human endeavor, from breakthroughs in medicine to mass production of the vilest pornography, is evidence that their abilities are, at least statistically, incredible. That some choose to use their supernatural endowment for evil does not let us, by the way, blame God. Their endurance across the millennia is another evidence.
The other characteristic is their adamantine hardness of heart toward spiritual things. Stiff necks and hard hearts have been the Jews' lot in spiritual things since their very beginnings. In our day, how else can a whole people not care about unborn babies being ripped apart without anesthesia? The Democrats were the part of slavery and segregation, and now they are the part of sex and slaughter--public orgies and unlimited abortion for all, that is. If the Jews knew the God of the Bible, they would not support the Democratic Party. If they listened to him, they would see through Barack Obama.
That's the paradox. The Jews no longer worship idols (the captivity in Babylon cured them of that), but they have so little spiritual sight that they blindly follow and serve the worst idolaters of all: Democrats who worship self, sex and power and force others to do the same.
The only Jew who can put all the pieces back together for this still-wayward people is their Messiah himself. And he is not Barack Obama or any of his evil Democratic henchmen.
PCP Smoker| 2.17.12 @ 8:23PM
I think Podhoretz wrote a book about this a couple of years ago. Did you not read it?
robert szeged| 2.17.12 @ 10:11PM
An overwhelming majority of Jews do not vote for the Republican Party for a simple reason - they see it as a party whose voters value and defend America's Christian tradition and heritage. Jews feel much more comfortable in a "secular," "multicultural," and "post-Christian" society - that's what they try hard to make of the US (the rest of the West including Europe and Canada have already become that). So, no matter how hard Republicans try to trump up their pro-Israel stand in foreign policy, as long as they are perceived in domestic policy as "clinging" to their Christian faith and tradition Jews will never vote for them.
BTW, Mr. Goldstein, what does the last "G" stand for in "LGBTG"? Seems like there is no end to sexual perversions that want to acquire the status of a normal, mainstream behavior or, in the deceptive language of the Left's identity politics, "community" of people. Pathetic.
Your Excellency| 2.18.12 @ 2:48AM
I find this discussion quite silly. If you are not Catholic you are damned anyway. As Dante said," It is just a matter of what level of hell you reside".
AVCurmudgeon| 2.18.12 @ 6:13PM
There are levels of hell? Hmm. Don't seem to recall that in either the Old or New Testaments. Oh, that's right. Dante was not a theologian, he was a poet.
TeaPartyPatriot4ever| 2.18.12 @ 6:14AM
My father used to say, you can't help someone, who refuses to help themselves.. ie; Liberal Jews
As sad and pathetic as it is, it is their own stubbornness, stupidity, and lack of enlightened hindsight, that makes them sheep heading to a slaughterhouse, and not lions defending their territory and tribe. But try telling them that..
martin j smith| 2.18.12 @ 8:06AM
No --I believe many Jews are JINO. Jews in name only. They are for the most part Socialists. Many Jews who immigrated from Eastern Europe found Labor and Socialist as well Communist in environments where they could gain acceptance as a "victim" of oppression. And indeed Christian Anti-Semitism and politically motivated Anti-Semitism were common in Eureope. So many Jews knowingly or not converted to their political ideologies and became less identified as a Jew. They became internationalists and lost their identities even of their homelands. My Grand Parents were members of a Jewish Labor Orgaization Eastern Europe and continued their involvement in this country. I believe this sets the stage for what we have today. And at least in Urban areas when new immigrants came guess which political party welcomed them as new voters ? Today what is really ironic is that these JINOs are facing Anti-Semitism of the Left but they seem so detached from a Jewish identity that they do not see that it applies to them. This is what happened
in Germany and Hitler's rise to power and an utter failure to recognize that Hitler was talking about them ( Socialist Jews ) --Then--too late.
MoFreeMoney| 2.18.12 @ 10:14AM
I asked a Jewish friend this question last year and he stuck to the FDR theory.
Personally I think that they vote Dem because, as such an industrious lot, they know that the redistribution of wealth will allow them to charge higher rents, sell more videos and music etc. As a small business owner myself I know nearly everything is a writeoff and the marginal tax rate is not a big deal.
Moebellini| 2.18.12 @ 10:31AM
Wrong, this story is completely bogus. A Jew only worries about Jews, forget about everybody else. Republ icans are hostile toward racial minorities, give me a freakin break. You going to tell me that Jews worry about racial minorities, what planet have you been living on. Look at who most of your slum loards are, look at the minority cities and show me who are controlling everything, thats right Jews. Jews worry about two things and two things only, power and money. Forget about Isreal, they could care less about their homeland. They know where their power is and that's where the democrats come in. You help me and I'll help you. That's why Obama could care less about Isreal, the Jews will fall in line whenever the voting starts no matter what they say. Bill Clinton had Yasser Arafat, the father of terrotism and the killer of Jews at the white so often that Arafat had a mail box there. That was a slap in the face of every Jew yet they still voted the way they're told to. They are and will always be lapdogs to the democratic party. End of story........
Tim| 2.18.12 @ 11:06AM
regardless of the reason...
they vote against their values and principles....
sadly, many don't even realize what they've voting for leads to what they've always worried about having... tyranny and bigotry.
Spike| 2.18.12 @ 12:53PM
Although Mr Nobama slaps Israel in the face, most American Jews will still vote for him! Obviously, the American Jew does not support Israel and will vote for someone( Nobama) who is hell bent on destroying Israel. Sad.
Oldefarte| 2.18.12 @ 3:18PM
Based upon my above comments regarding the ultra-intellectualism of the Jewish people, I think that perhaps the primary reason why Jews majoritively support Democrats is because many or most of their current generation are college graduates. As such they naturally are liberals from their years of university indoctrimation by their liberal sollege professors. As the very meaning of liberalism is that of a Democrat, so naturally Jews [as are most other college graduates] gravitate to the political party!!!!
martin j smith| 2.18.12 @ 3:52PM
I will repeat --many Jews are in fact JINOs --even those who seem to be observant. Then again, many religious groups in the Christian elements are also highly politicized as well. Their common religion--a word I use rather loosely is Socialism or Communism actually. Thus these "Jews" may be genetically Jewish but behaviorally-not really.
The reason is that their behavior flows from their
political dogma not their religious beliefs.
Dixie Pixie| 2.18.12 @ 6:41PM
Gentlemen, I think you are missing the point.
The Jews do not bring much in the way of votes in the majority of Congressional districts to matter.
Look in the following religious maps.
First the largest religious groups map::::
http://www.valpo.edu/geomet/pi.....bodies.gif
Now look at the Jewish religious map::::
http://www.valpo.edu/geomet/pi.....jewish.gif
No where does the Jews numbers rise to become a majority.
The maps clearly states, to form a winning national coalition a { Catholic / Baptist / Lutheran / Methodist } coalition would cover 96% of all Congressional districts.
Even a Baptist / Catholic alliance would dominate national politics for years to come.
The conclusion is obvious, the Jewish vote is not worth pursuing if it means losing Catholic or Baptist votes.
The Jews may bring intellectual horsepower to an electoral cycle but they don't bring in the votes to win a national election.
Dixie Pixie| 2.18.12 @ 6:53PM
OOPS....Forgot about the Mormons.
Make that a { Catholic / Baptist / Lutheran / Methodist / Mormon } coalition.
Sorry about that Mittens.
Bob D| 2.18.12 @ 8:24PM
With all the handwaving of this article and the comments I think we are left with one basic fact. The majority of Jews are not taken in by the perpetual war advocacy of the Republican party, even though it is falling over itself to get us into wars in the middle east to protect Israel. Oh I know AIPAC has its tentacles into the Liebermans and the democrats but Newt and Romney aren't even for a two state solution. It looks like the Jews have better judgement than the evangelist zionist zealots that are 3 of the 4 Republican candidates. Nice to see those republican hypocrites deserted.
Fiscal| 2.18.12 @ 11:12PM
This discussion proves, yet again, that the Republican party loses votes because it has been taken over by Christian theology and evangelism. There was nothing in the founding documents in this country that said it was "Christian". The social conservatism of the Republican party is, indeed, a threat to the few Jews left in this country. They may not be a large voting block, but they are very large donors to political campaigns and will be even more effective with the recent Supreme Court decision.
For those of us concerned with the fiscal threat to this country, this is unfortunate as if the Republican party dropped its religious litmus test, most Jews, LGBT, and many independents would gladly join the bandwagon and fix these problems.
Just remember that the greatest threat to Judaism in this country is Christian evangelism -- the type that promotes interfaith marriage. In most of those cases, the children are Christians.
So where does that leave us as a country? Religion divides fiscal conservatives so that the people who lose most are our progeny. Let's get religion (i.e., abortion, marriage, etc.) out of the purview of politics and with a nod towards true personal liberty, let individuals make their own decisions.
Rich D| 2.19.12 @ 11:08PM
Seriously? Well, make sure you don't vote your morality, either. After all, "true personal liberty" doesn't include the right to vote according to one's morality, does it? And is that the exception to making one's own decisions, or were you suggesting that you get to make all decisions for others.
Dan-o| 2.19.12 @ 8:45AM
"So why don't Jews vote Republican in large numbers?
The most fundamental reason is that many Jews believe .... that Republicans are hostile towards racial minorities, women, immigrants ..... the LGBTG community. Many Jews intrinsically identify with groups who are seen as being on the short end of the stick and see themselves ...... in their position and thus feel compelled to speak out and act on their behalf".
You hit the nail on the head, but the "irony's that Jews are nothing more than NeoWASP's and control the dialogue through their strangle hold on everything of value and worth....
How disingenuous....!
Jews lump themselves into the minority mix out of convenience and whenever someone disagrees with their "NeoWASP", "Anti- Western" politics, they cry, "anti-Semite".....
Where are all the mainstream blogs about, "Why Arapaho or Mohawks don't vote GOP"?......
David| 2.19.12 @ 8:59AM
It's no wonder the jews support the pervert community since most perverts are jews...
Fiscal| 2.19.12 @ 9:44AM
So, let's see, a group of evangelical Christians get a stranglehold on a political party in order to force their religion on all of us. If we don't agree with them on social issues, we must be perverts. I guess fighting for survival with any weapon you have (Jews and money) is not the right thing to do? It's interesting that Jews are among the highest givers to charity -- i.e., Tzedakah -- it sort of puts the bigoted stereotypes put forth by David and the other Christian zealots on this board in question. The Nazi's said the same thing about Jews. I knew racial bigotry existed in the extreme Christian right wing, but to flaunt it like this....
Aaron, if you read the remarks to your blog, you would absolutely know why the vast majority of Jews, blacks, Hispanics, and most other minorities are not part of today's Republican Party. Again, this is a detriment to banding together for strong fiscal conservatism and why this Christian bigotry is hurting this country.
Rich D| 2.19.12 @ 11:13PM
"Only a few studies have considered donations by other religious groups. Hoge and Yang (2006) found that Jews donated higher amounts than Catholics and Protestants, but not as a proportion of income. In Canada, Jews are found to donate amounts similar to mainline protestants but lower proportions of income (Berger, 2006). In South Africa, Christians are more likely to engage in philanthropy than non-Christians or the non-religious (Everatt, Habib, Maharaj, & Nyar, 2005)."
http://www.wiepking.com/papers.....R_2011.pdf
Maybe you should do your research first. Also, you might find the the charity from Jews goes to Israel and/or other Jews.
Fiscal| 2.20.12 @ 11:15AM
Rich, did you actually read the study or just Google the summary results. The study was done in 1994 and was based on lower income households, i.e., average household income of about $31,000. Jews don't normally "pass the plate" and their giving results from temple dues. If we were to include this in the definition, it would change the results dramatically. In addition, the median household income of Jews is about $50,000. So when the data is normalized, it understates Jewish giving. The methodology used in that study was flawed. I think that you should have done more research.....
Mike w| 2.19.12 @ 10:37AM
Since when did this site become obsessed with religious groups? Jews can believe their superstition, muslims can believe theirs but do we have to hear about their politics so much?
Personally I could not give a damn less about why Jews are democrats.
If it is about GOP opposition to immigration then perhaps they should look at israels immigration policy.
crypticguise| 2.19.12 @ 1:21PM
Jews in the United States have a long history of supporting leftist-socialist-Communists. Too many educated Jews still support radical leftists like Obama who is surrounded and supported with every left wing, Progressive, Socialist, Communist, radical anti-American Group in the Nation.
Jews are not ignorant in their chosen field of endeavor, but they do have a history and culture in the United States of supporting left wing causes. And it goes on today
I have one Jewish friend who is a Conservative Republican. His entire family are Democrats and will vote for Obama, no matter what destruction Obama brings down upon America.
Jews are programmed by their cultural past in the United States to vote for Communists, just so long as the Communists change their name to Progressive or Radical Liberal, or Socialist.
Jews use Capitalism and Liberty to earn their daily bread and vote to destroy Capitalism and Liberty. Stupid? No, just programmed to do so.
Avi Marranazo| 2.19.12 @ 3:47PM
Kevin Macdonald has a review of Norman Podhoretz’s "Why are Jews Liberals?" posted at AlternativeRight.com. I thought I would post a summary here to encourage commentary. Part I is “Remaking the Right: Liberals, Jews, Conservatives” and deals with how Jews see their history in Europe — the lachrymose view of European history in which Jews have been the victims of irrational hostility ever since the origins of Christianity. The take home point is: “It’s a very short jump from blaming the culture created and sustained by Europeans to the idea that Europeans as a people or group of peoples are the problem. Ultimately, this implicit sense that Europeans themselves are the problem is the crux of the issue.” This is why Jews support the anti-White coalition known as the Democrat Party.
Tom Johnson | 2.20.12 @ 2:34PM
In my blog, first read the description under the title, then read the following posts:
Congratulations Caroline,
Republican for Obama, 2012?,
Jews Can't Have It Both Ways,
Warning to Israel Via Haaretz,
Israel Must Defend Israel,
Will Communism Kill the Jews and the USA?
Respectfully,
Tom Johnson