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The Spectacle Blog
Yesterday, as was widely expected, longtime New York Yankees catcher Jorge Posada retired after 17 seasons. During his long tenure with the Yankees, he hit .273, had a OBP of .374, slugged 275 homeruns, drove in 1065 runs, was named to five AL All-Star Teams and earned five World Series rings. Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera were his teammates from start to finish.
The question doesn’t seem to be so much if he will make the Hall of Fame but when. Peter Gammons argues that he should be inducted his first time on the ballot in 2018:
It would be nice if Posada made that speech before Jeter and Rivera are elected to the Hall, because when they touch the plaque handed to them by Jane Forbes Clark, Jorge Posada should be in the background, applauding from the stage of fellow Hall of Famers.
Yet somehow I don’t think Posada will be elected on his first try. Consider Bernie Williams. This year was his first year of eligibility and he captured less than 10% of the vote from the Baseball Writers Association of America (BBWAA). A player needs 75% of the vote from the BBWAA to get inducted into Cooperstown.
Now one could make the case that there are far fewer outstanding catchers than there are centerfielders and that Posada might get more consideration on his first ballot than did Williams. Of course, it will also depend who is on the ballot with him. When Rivera or Jeter are eligible to get on the Halll of Fame ballot they are certain to be voted in on their first try barring a major scandal. In which case, Posada and Williams are most very likely to be inducted with one, the other or possibly both.
Let’s say Rivera and Jeter retire at the same time. You could potentially have an induction ceremony which could include Rivera, Jeter, Posada, Williams, Andy Pettitte and, for good measure, Joe Torre. It would be too much for a Red Sox fan to bear.
View all comments (20) | Leave a comment
More Blog Posts by Aaron Goldstein
http://spectator.org/blog/2012/01/25/posada-retires
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Indy| 1.25.12 @ 3:58PM
Hip Hip, Jorge!
Bob Grant| 1.25.12 @ 4:24PM
Baseball media already has an eastern bias. I wouldn't be a bit shocked by an all-Yankee BHOF induction.
Occam's Tool| 1.25.12 @ 4:49PM
WAR on Posada is 224 lifetime. Not many HOFers there. Ranking ahead of Posada is Gene Tenace, who also won more World Series, with six. Ted Simmons also has a better WAR score, hit for a higher average, hit almost as many homers, and was an 8 time all-star. And what about Manny Sanguillen, with a lifetime .296 batting average? In short, I don't know how you necessarily go from one to another.
Aaron Goldstein| 1.25.12 @ 11:43PM
Gene Tenace actually has four World Series rings (three with the Oakland A's from 1972-74 and one with the St. Louis Cardinals in 1982). Tenace had some good years with the bat. On six occasions, Tenace drew 100 or more walks. The problem is that Tenace split his career between catcher and first base.
I don't see Manny Sanguillen as Hall of Fame material.
However, I agree with you about Simmons and advocated for his induction last year.
http://spectator.org/archives/.....ooperstown
Nevertheless, I think Posada should be inducted.
Occam's Tool| 1.25.12 @ 5:01PM
Of course, there are only 13 catchers in the HOF...
Sparky| 1.25.12 @ 5:03PM
I assume you speak of the Yankee Hall of Fame, not the one in Cooperstown reserved for the game's all-time greats. He was a fine player, but Hall-worthy? Don't think so.
Aaron Goldstein| 1.25.12 @ 11:28PM
Don't sell Posada short. His offensive numbers are comparable with other catchers who have been enshrined in Cooperstown such as Bench, Berra, Dickey and Carter.
Lloyd Daub| 1.25.12 @ 5:30PM
I remember that when Thurman Munson died, some suggested his plaque be put into Cooperstown immediately. I think his fans are still waiting, aren't they?
Paul Windels| 1.25.12 @ 5:33PM
Right -- and Munson was a far better player than Posada -- a No. 3 hitter, an MVP, and no comparison on defense and receiving.
Aaron Goldstein| 1.25.12 @ 11:29PM
Munson deserves reconsideration from the Veterans Committee.
Cromulent| 1.26.12 @ 12:21AM
Yeah, a Yankees fan. Not the brightest bulbs. A lot of them think Bucky Dent deserves a spot for hitting a pair of WS homers.
Paul Windels| 1.26.12 @ 9:54AM
Munson was the 3 hitter on a team that won 3 pennants and 2 WS. He was a league MVP. Take him away from that team and you severely diminish that team. His career was cut short and I think of him as a borderline HOF candidate. I also rate Ellie Howard in that category.
I do not think Posada should rate as highly. First of all, he was a poor defensive catcher. He never would have played ahead of Munson or Howard. Second, he was a 7-8 hitter, never having the consistency or the baseball smarts to bat in the middle of the order. Third, take him away from the Yankee championship teams he was on and it doesn't make that much of a difference; indeed, he was not the regular catcher until 1999.
BTW, Bucky Dent never hit a WS HR or even a post-season HR. He was WS MVP in '78 because he batted over .400 and also because he turned alot of DPs while the Dodger IF was incapable of turning a DP. The HR he hit was in the 163rd game of the 1978 regular season to break the tie in the standings between the Yanks and the Red Sox. No he doesn't belong in the HOF.
BTW also, to me, the biggest HOF travesty is the omission of Tony Oliva.
Aaron Goldstein| 1.26.12 @ 11:16AM
To start with, Posada actually became the Yankees number one catcher in 1998, not 1999. Posada supplanted current Yankees manager Joe Girardi. He remained the team's number one catcher until 2010. Not many catchers are the number one catcher for their team for 13 consecutive seasons.
While it is true that Posada's defensive work wasn't up to the calibre of a Jason Varitek or a Mike Matheny, I think you're selling his offense short. Between 2000 and 2009, Posada hit 20 or more homeruns eight times and had 90 or more RBI on five occasions. His best offensive season was in 2003 when he hit .281 with 30 homeruns and 101 RBI which was good to finish 3rd in the AL MVP balloting behind Alex Rodriguez (then of the Texas Rangers) and Carlos Delgado of the Toronto Blue Jays. The Yankees, of course, won the AL pennant in 2003.
BTW, Posada generally hit number six in the order, not seventh or eighth.
As far as Cooperstown travesties go, I would say it's a toss up between Tony Oliva and Gil Hodges.
Paul Windels| 1.26.12 @ 6:27PM
Posada hit 7-8 for most of his career, rarely 6. He basically split time with Girardi in '98. My problem with his offense was his inconsistency -- he could be great and he could be lousy and have stupid, non-productive at bats as well. His baserunning was an atrocity and he was never much of a receiver.
A big problem I have with putting him in the HOF is that the biggest two hitters on the 1996-2000 team were Bernie Williams and Paul O'Neill, neither of whom will make it. O'Neill, especially, delivered clutch hit after clutch hit -- one example being the rope he hit in '96 WS Game 6 against Maddux that started the decisive 3-run rally. Those teams would have been severely weakened without either O'Neill or Williams (true also of Rivera and Jeter), but I don't think the same is true of Posada. Cheers.
Bob K.| 1.25.12 @ 7:32PM
Aaron, you are delusional when it comes to NY ball players and the HOF! If Posada played at Denver or thereabouts I have my doubts whether you would even comment about him in your column!
Might as well open the doors to Cooperstown to everybody if Posada can get elected!
Bob K.| 1.25.12 @ 7:35PM
PS: I can't wait until you achieve your life's ambition and become a columnist for one of the Big Apples newspapers. Let's hope it will be a political column.
Aaron Goldstein| 1.25.12 @ 11:21PM
Since you mention Denver, Larry Walker is certainly worthy of the Hall of Fame and when Todd Helton retires I would most certainly make a note of it. Troy Tulowitzki has a chance to be one of the great shortstops of all time while Carlos Gonzalez could also become of the NL's premier players.
albert constantine jr.| 1.25.12 @ 7:43PM
No matter what will follow with Cooperstown, congratulations to Mr. Posada on a fine career and a dignified departure. This spring, when you see some prominently jug-eared silhouette in the ballpark, it will have to be Obama with one of his girly first pitches.
Bob Grant| 1.25.12 @ 8:04PM
Obama clearly didn't throw as a boy, as demonstrated by his now infamous (and laughable) first pitches.
Boyfriends in college. Bathhouse memberships...I'm confused. I thought he is a sports guy? A guy's guy?
He's a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma.
PCP Smoker| 1.26.12 @ 5:57AM
What's with the baseball postings?