POW!
In his typical understated New York fashion, former Mayor
Rudy Giuliani went on Fox and Friends yesterday and
smacked Newt Gingrich and Rick Perry for their sudden yearning for
class warfare.
“What the hell are you doing, Newt? I expect this from
Saul Alinsky. This is what Saul Alinsky taught Barack Obama, and
what you’re saying is part of the reason we’re in so much trouble
right now,”
said a furious and frustrated America’s mayor.
Stephen Moore of the Wall Street
Journal reports there are now second thoughts in the
Gingrich camp about identifying a man who repeatedly identifies
himself as a “Reagan conservative” with a 28-minute documentary
attacking Mitt Romney as a big bad capitalist. Good
thinking.
One has to wonder:
What in the world is Gingrich SuperPAC honcho Rick Tyler
smoking?
In a clip of an interview with MSNBC’s Andrea Mitchell,
played on air by Rush Limbaugh, Tyler responds to Mitchell’s
question of whether or not the anti-Romney approach taken by the
Gingrich campaign is not causing Gingrich himself problems — with
Republican voters.
To which Tyler answers by saying that Obama’s David
Axelrod knows infinitely more about Romney’s Bain Capital than the
Gingrich camp and will let fly if Romney is the nominee. So
therefore, was the implication, the attacks on Romney over Bain by
the Gingrich campaign are as nothing… and necessary to
boot.
To say the least, we’ve been critical of Governor Romney
in this space. He is a nice guy but not a conservative. In fact,
the one thing Newt is doing right is identifying Romney as a
“Massachusetts moderate.” True. Absolutely. Romney is a 21st
century Rockefeller Republican, just another card-carrying GOP
moderate of the type that has routinely lost presidential elections
or turned in historically disappointing presidencies that are
nothing if not just more status quo.
We’ve taken flack from the anti-Newt side of the corral
and others for thinking of Speaker Gingrich from our experience
with him in his days as a young Reaganite leader of the
Conservative Opportunity Society in the House. Newt, it has been
insisted to us, is not a conservative at all but a liberal… an
opportunist… a man unable to stop shooting himself in the foot
etc., etc. Suffice to say, this was certainly not the impression he
gave in repeated dealings with him as an energetic Reaganite House
leader carrying the war straight to the liberal likes of Tip
O’Neill and Jim Wright.
But what Mr. Tyler is saying… plus the disgraceful
Romney-attack ads coming from the Gingrich SuperPAC now being
played on conservative talk radio… can not only deepen that
impression of the anti-Newts, it can have the end result of
self-sabotaging the Gingrich campaign and his reputation beyond as
a Reagan conservative. Lending the distinct and to some alarming
impression that in a fit of fury at Romney (justified) the
ex-Speaker is switching from being a leader of the Conservative
Opportunity Society to what might be called the Gingrich/Perry
Conservative Resentment Society.
There are 1,000 and one ways to go after Romney’s record
as a “Massachusetts moderate.”
Flip-flopping, abortion, planned parenthood, the
anti-Reagan streak when convenient, the “I was an independent and
I’m not a partisan” shtick used to run for office in Massachusetts.
Even under attack on Bain, Governor Romney seems too timid to make
a full throated defense of economic freedom and capitalism. Indeed,
Romney’s very timidity in defending both himself and the core
principle of conservatism that is economic freedom should serve as
yet another fire bell in the night as to the lack of boldness
inherent in a potential Romney administration.
One of the other points Mayor Giuliani made is perhaps key
to the entire campaign — the emotional desire of both Rudy
Giuliani and millions of grassroots Republicans/conservatives to
raise the Reagan conservative banner. Newt was making progress on
this path.
But in an apparent — and understandable — desire to even
the score with Romney over all those Iowa commercials, Gingrich
himself or his advisers (that means you, Rick Tyler) are using an
influx of cash to the end result of effectively trashing the Reagan
legacy, not to mention the ex-Speaker’s credibility as a Reagan
conservative.
This baloney — and that is what it is — should stop. The
offensive Gingrich radio ads being run on conservative talk radio
effectively attacking free markets and economic liberty under the
guise of Bain-did-bad should be halted on the spot. Designed this
way or not, they are perceived as a vivid and direct Alinsky/Obama
style attack on capitalism and economic freedom. In particular, to
run them on the shows of the most prominent conservative talkers in
the land — whose audiences are large precisely because the hosts
are Reagan conservatives — is akin to running ads on evangelical
radio stations attacking religion.
This isn’t serious strategy. This is
self-sabotage.
The fact of the matter is that Newt Gingrich has made an
excellent case for himself — and against Romney. Rick Perry, once
filled with promise, is stumbling around out there not simply
because of bad debate performances but because he gave the
impression with his in-state tuition answer for the children of
illegals that he was at heart a closet liberal. A perception he has
doubled-down on with this “vulture capital” routine, the latter
doing nothing if not reminding that Mr. Perry began his career as a
Democrat supporting Al Gore.
It is often said that Social Security is the “third rail”
of politics. Touch it, so goes the tale, and your career will
die.
In the wake of the Gingrich/Perry attacks on Romney it can
perhaps be added that economic freedom is the third rail of
conservative politics. If one touches it — “touches” defined as
being perceived as attacking economic freedom — a conservative
will find their career if not dead at least impossibly
scorched.
Speaker Gingrich and Governor Perry are in the process of
scorching themselves and killing both their campaigns and larger
Reagan conservative reputations. If this continues, perhaps the
best thing all around would be if someone quietly said two words to
each.
Get out.
susyque| 1.13.12 @ 11:12AM
Christian or Mormon...pay attention!
I’m not in a position to advise anyone on how they should vote. But here are some points to consider. The Church was not given a nation like Israel was. And the Church does not have a future on Earth like Israel does. The Church is an international body of believers from all over the world whose real home is in Heaven.
In my opinion, too many Americans think patriotism and religion are one and the same so they look for a candidate with a religious background similar to theirs instead of one who can best help solve our country’s problems. Our past history shows that hasn’t worked very well.
I think we should vote for the person we believe will be the best leader for our country based on traditional American values, knowing our time here is short.
susyque| 1.13.12 @ 11:13AM
*Above article written by Jack Kelley.
Crassus| 1.13.12 @ 11:15AM
Yeah, Perry and Gingrich should get out now and leave the field to RINO Mittenz and senile clown RuPaul. Works for me.
/sarc
Clint| 1.13.12 @ 9:13PM
When Romney ran Bain Capital, his word was not his bond.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....ory_1.html
The Tea Party Rebellion Is In South Carolina.
Occam's Tool| 1.16.12 @ 1:16AM
Well, that would leave the Conservative in the race as Rick Santorum, who walks the walk.
Joseph Dooley | 1.13.12 @ 11:28AM
Santorum has come out in support of Romney respecting the anti-capitalist attacks from Newt. He's the class of the current crop of candidates. Another reason I support him.
kf451| 1.13.12 @ 3:02PM
Santorum is falling fast. He didn't have a chance to get vetted before, and now that people are checking him out, they're seeing that he's not a conservative. And like Romney, he's full of excuses for his past liberal votes. Remember, he worked to get Specter re-elected, who was then the last vote for Obamacare. That's what happened because Santorum didn't live up to his own principles. He's also pro-union, and pro-NCLB, and he was a lobbyist.
Dai Alanye | 1.14.12 @ 2:10PM
Because Santorum's 88.1% conservative rating makes him "not a conservative?" Who knew. And who is more conservative among those with a realistic chance?
No one. Not Newt Gingrich, who too often goes for big-government solutions. Not Ron Paul, who fails the national security test. Not Rick Perry, who has no hope. Not Jon Huntsman, who is struggling for last place against Perry. And clearly not Mitt Romney, who panders to every group but in actuality believes... what?
Kitty| 1.13.12 @ 11:35AM
Earlier this month, when Sarah Palin suggested that Michelle Bachmann get out before she went into debt, all heck broke loose with headlines shouting 'How dare Sarah Palin urge Bachmann to drop out.' Now it's okay to tell Newt to get lost?
SpiralArchitect| 1.13.12 @ 7:21PM
SC & Fl will determine their fate.
Hank| 1.13.12 @ 11:39AM
I'm very disappointed at the sight of supposedly “conservative” republicans going after “RINO Romney,” not by running to his right on this issue, but on his left.
In Newt's case, this is just another reminder of his "global warming," "Dede Scozzafava" and “right-wing social engineering" side. Newt is a principled conservative only until it benefits him not to be and then he turns into Alinsky-lite.
Pete| 1.13.12 @ 12:55PM
If Romney can't deal with this, how can he beat Obama? Romney so far has failed badly on why firing people is a good thing. All I hear is moaning and groaning about Newt. Get some gonads Romney.
Kitty| 1.13.12 @ 1:35PM
Exactly!
If McRomney is so proud of his work at Baine, then why not come out tell us why? Brag a little.
WinnieR| 1.14.12 @ 10:59AM
Perhaps he's playing Obama's game. I see a Gingrich who's trying to lure some liberals to his side. Strategy.
Sean| 1.13.12 @ 12:15PM
Time for Perry to endorse fellow Texan Ron Paul. Paul is up to 20% in SC according to ARG and 16% according to Rasmussen.
Stefan Stackhouse| 1.13.12 @ 12:29PM
I know many of you hate it, but the reality is that Paul is the only real Anti-Romney that you've got. Perry, Gingrich, Santorum and Huntsman are all clowns that will be on their way out the door in a couple of weeks, whether they know it yet or not. Paul will still be in the race long after the others are just a memory.
Don't like Romney? Support Paul!
Don't like Paul? Support Romney!
Don't like either? Well, tough luck, pal!
Pete| 1.13.12 @ 12:53PM
Why are Paul and Romney so chummy?
Sean| 1.13.12 @ 2:08PM
What do you mean by chummy? Ron Paul has hit Romney on his flip flops. You think he is chummy with Romney because he hasn't criticized his time at Bain like Gingrich, Perry and Santorum are doing? Ron Paul defends capitalism he isn't going to use leftist criticism.
WL| 1.13.12 @ 4:35PM
Ron Paul needs to get out. How about that? Then you guys can take your tin-foiled hats over to the democrats...admit it...that's where you were before you came over here....
Nothing but old-school liberals.
No, you may not be marxists...but you are the old school liberals. The new liberals are the marxists.
Get outta here.
Clint| 1.13.12 @ 8:51PM
Ronald Reagan,
" Ron Paul is one of the outstanding leaders fighting for a stronger national defense. As a former Air Force officer, he knows well the needs of our armed forces, and he always puts them first. We need to keep him fighting for our country."
Nobel Prize Economist Milton Friedman,
"I strongly support Ron Paul. We very badly need to have more Representatives who understand in a principled way the importance of property rights and religious freedom."
The Tea Party Rebellion Is In South Carolina.
Dai Alanye | 1.14.12 @ 2:43PM
We should thank Clint for once again pointing out Ron Paul's hypocrisy. It was only a few years after gaining Reagan's support that Paul turned against him and joined a third party effort. Ron Paul is no conservative, simply an especially weird libertarian whose slogan is Peace Through Weakness.
Sean| 1.13.12 @ 9:32PM
Sorry I have been a Republican all my life. I have an ancestor that was a pall bearer for Abraham Lincoln how is that for lineage in the Republican Party. It is you neocons that came over from the Democratic Party. You know those red commy neocons and supporters of FDR.
WinnieR| 1.14.12 @ 11:03AM
Is this a battle of the marxists vs the fascists?
Dai Alanye | 1.14.12 @ 2:46PM
One of my ancestors was a warrior for Charlemagne, the Holy Roman Emperor. Am I therefore doomed to remain an imperialist?
Occam's Tool| 1.16.12 @ 1:18AM
Well, Sean, you don't support Lincoln here.
And, boy, I was 18 when I cast my 1st vote for Reagan. I have never voted for a Democrat, and was in YAF in College. I have never been a Marxist or Liberal scumbag.
ml| 1.13.12 @ 12:36PM
It is going to be Mitt Romney to lose the race on 2012 Election Day. The RINOs are the liberal Democratic and it is going to be Karl Rove's fault. The GOP has deserted the conservatives, Tea Party, and grassroots.
WL| 1.13.12 @ 4:38PM
Yep. and Ron Paul has split our side of things. If you think that is just happenstance that such a loon talks the constitution so strong but spews his foreign policy appeasement drivel like he does...???
It's a perfect mixture for 20% Nader Type. Never wins....but takes enough to keep the Cool Kids getting elected to the student council...
He's a phony.
Clint| 1.13.12 @ 8:53PM
You're An Israel Firster Smear Bund Traitor Bastard, Asshat WL.
Ronald Reagan,
" Ron Paul is one of the outstanding leaders fighting for a stronger national defense. As a former Air Force officer, he knows well the needs of our armed forces, and he always puts them first. We need to keep him fighting for our country."
Nobel Prize Economist Milton Friedman,
"I strongly support Ron Paul. We very badly need to have more Representatives who understand in a principled way the importance of property rights and religious freedom."
The Tea Party Rebellion Is In South Carolina.
Dai Alanye | 1.14.12 @ 2:48PM
Ron Paul? Wasn't he the one who stabbed Reagan in the back before going off to join a third party?
Occam's Tool| 1.16.12 @ 1:19AM
Yeah, that was him.
Interested Conservative| 1.13.12 @ 12:38PM
All well said Mr. Lord, but isn't Newt simply headed back to status quo ante Iowa? He CAN stop these attacks, and if he wins SC I suspect he will, until and unless Mitt starts up his attacks again in Florida. It seems to me to be simple cause and effect - if Mitt is so "electable", why do Newt and the democrats agree that this is his weak point? Maybe he is not really so electable?
What a great irony it will be if we head to the convention looking not for a conservative unifier, but a moderate unifier to replace the tarnished Gov. Romney? Maybe Mitt hasn't planned for that. Maybe Newt feels that's his only path left.
Doug| 1.13.12 @ 2:55PM
Newt's national numbers really started to drop AFTER he turned negative. It wasn't Romney's attacks that did the most damage but Newt's abandoning a positive message. In this regard Mr Lord is correct. IMHO any of the non-Romneys could move up by sticking to a positive growth message combined with attacks on Dems.
Interested Conservative| 1.13.12 @ 10:17PM
I think Windy City summarizes it accurately. I think you had cause and effect confused. I recall the "baggage" ad before anything else, and Newt reacted to that, negatively.
To that extent, it was effective, since it took Newt off the lead in Iowa, but it's arguable he wouldn't have held on regardless.
Still, I haven't heard anyone arguing that Mitt's superpac was NOT the first to go negative, which makes sense given his organizational strength.
Newt couldn't afford anything other than what he was doing in the first place. It will be interesting to see if he reverts to that form after SC. I suspect he will for the Florida race.
Windy City Commentary| 1.13.12 @ 12:43PM
I think Newt’s Super PAC has simply been trying to put doubts in the minds of those who looked to coronate Mitt Romney as the nominee before the 1st vote was cast in Iowa.
Let's recall, that as we approached mid-December, Newt was up big in Iowa, South Carolina, and Florida. Then, on December 14th, National Review went ballistic and for 2-3 days in big bold letters wrote “Against Gingrich” on their website. Then they published the Newt is Marvin the Martian issue, with the cartoon caricature of Newt as Marvin the Martian. While all this is happening, Romney’s Super PAC and Ron Paul are running one negative ad after another against Newt in Iowa. The media notes how Newt’s numbers are falling in Iowa, the voters in other early primary states take note and his poll numbers fall in those states as well, like dominoes.
And what was the big reason Republican voters started to turn away from Newt? Because his consulting firm invoiced Fannie and Freddie Mac for the 6 years of work it did for them; totaling $1.6 million. Take a look at what consulting firms charge and you’ll see this isn’t outrageous? Take a look at how much Rahm Emmanuel, Jamie Gorelick and other Democrats received for being on the board at Fannie/ Freddie and it looks like Newt received table scraps for his 6 years of consulting.
In addition to these woes for Gingrich, all the big conservative radio guys took vacation over the holidays for 2 weeks from December 19 to January 3, so Rush, Levin, and Hannity, etc. weren’t heard from at all to offer their perspective. Meanwhile, the piranhas at National Review and Fox News were open for business and continued destroying Newt in the conservative media. They all kept saying that Newt was just another not-Romney who was crashing just like the others (Bachman, Perry, Cain); but this was flawed logic and wishful thinking.
One question that I haven’t heard asked is, “If it is illegal for candidates to have any communication with a Super PAC that claims to support the candidate, how can the candidate be responsible for anything the Super PAC does?”
Newt has a lot to offer, so the anti-Bain thing is far from a one-trick pony. Both Romney’s momentum and Newt’s decline in the polls have slowed, and now Newt can go back to being positive and bashing Obama. Newt ain’t getting out of this race, Mr. Lord. Conservatives are devoted to capitalism, but Newt and Perry pointing out the negatives of Mitt’s old company, doesn’t threaten capitalism; the voters know this, and so do you.
Pete| 1.13.12 @ 12:52PM
Newt has given Romney and the GOP a great opportunity. But they are so busy complaining about Newt and Perry they are missing the opportunity. Romney has to explain why firing people is a good thing. It is a necessary aspect of free enterprise. Government fails because it does not fire people and does not reward those who excel. If Romney can not explain this he does not deserve to be president.
workingclass artist| 1.13.12 @ 9:46PM
He did. He said what he did at Bain was no different than what Obama did with GM & Crysler.
Dai Alanye | 1.14.12 @ 2:50PM
And by equating himself with Obama, Romney has accomplished what?
Windy City Commentary| 1.13.12 @ 12:53PM
By the way, Newt said in a debate that Congress should repeal Dodd/ Frank tomorrow; and yet pundits are afraid Newt doesn't support capitalism. Meanwhile, Scott Brown helped pass Dodd/ Frank, and we are supposed to hope he beats Elizabeth Warren and believe that Scott Brown is the best we can do in Massachusetts. Add to that, Rush Limbaugh says that Newt attacking Bain sounds like Elizabeth Warren. But guess what Rush, Scott Brown actually votes like Elizabeth Warren and at the end of the day; that's what matters.
WinnieR| 1.14.12 @ 11:15AM
Dod Frank will make many small community banks disappear under the overbearing regulations and paperwork coming their way. Free market or more crony capitalism run by the treasury dept and they have close ties to the Wall St. banks. There is good reason the mainstream R's fear Gingrich.
martin j smith| 1.13.12 @ 1:34PM
Rudy is not exactly a Conservative--more like Bloomberg statist type. And I think Perry and Gingrich should stay in. You know why--? Just because I do not want Romney to have it soooooooo
easy. That is about it. Then again and here is why I oppoes Rudy G or anyone else telling candidates to drop out--it should be voters that decide not you or you(WSJ) or you(RG ) but the voters as a group.
workingclass artist| 1.13.12 @ 9:45PM
Perry campaigned for Rudy...Sheeesh!
Rob A| 1.13.12 @ 1:36PM
With Ron Paul now at 20% in SC, I wonder if Jeffrey Lord is feeling a bit irrelevant. It is clear that his attempt to smear Ron Paul as a Racist or Anti-Semite has completely failed. People dont listen to the like of Jeffrey Lord anymore. We dont care about your oppinion, as the internet has given us the opportunity to disprove just about every lie spit out of your mouth. Thank god for the internet. Ron Paul rEVOLution....JOIN or DIE!
Occam's Tool| 1.16.12 @ 1:20AM
Paul will finish 4th in SC. Romney, Newt, Santorum, Paul is how it will go.
Southerners don't like treason supporters. They may want their boys home, but they ain't gonna support Bradley Manning.
john dubose| 1.13.12 @ 1:45PM
So called "vulture capatilism" is a good thing in the long run because it makes production more efficient. The trick is to come up with a set of rules that spreads the benefits more evenly without seriously impeding the process. If Mitt gets the presidency, he will need to put on a different hat than he did when exploiting the current system.
There is no way to know whether he will.
workingclass artist| 1.13.12 @ 9:43PM
What about when Bain takes tax payer money even when the companies fail?
If they make money in fees and off taxpayer incentives and loading up the companies with debt what do they care if the companies succeed or not?
Citizen Jerry| 1.13.12 @ 1:52PM
I guess all of us groundlings should just listen to the smart people, cancel the remaining primaries and hand the nomination to Willard Romney. Then watch for major fail in November.
Windy City Commentary| 1.13.12 @ 1:59PM
The Bain thing has definitely illustrated the 1 issue that Republicans will go to the mat over: Is it Defense? No; Pro-Life? You kidding me; Keeping govt. from taking over the best Medical Care in the World?; Not really; Securing the border?; get outta of here.
Nope, the one thing they will go to the mat over is making sure companies like Bain Capital aren't criticized for doing what they do. They will also proclaim that any former CEO of such company is completely electable. However, a staunch opponent of illegal immigration or abortion is thought to be unelectable in most conservative circles.
Dai Alanye | 1.14.12 @ 2:53PM
A very apt contrast.
Loadmaster| 1.13.12 @ 4:31PM
Jeff...who the hell are you to tell these guys to get out. Quin just told us Mitten is not electable. Can you guys talk to one another. Hell, you got everyone totally confused.
Newt is not going anywhere and Rick can't beat Axlerod and the Chicago Machine. We need a bulldog from Ga for that fight.
workingclass artist| 1.13.12 @ 9:38PM
Rick Perry is the only candidate who has beat both an Axelrod and a Rove campaign. He can debate Obama, his record can beat Obama and his policy plans are already influencing people. A congressman Rep. Johnson from Illinois filed the Citizen Legislators Act that calls for a part-time congress,1/2 pay cut,1/2 staff on 1/12/2012
Mike| 1.13.12 @ 4:44PM
Newt is playing his part as the turd in the punch bowl. He will never get the nomination. He can only destroy the Republican hopes for November. He is indeed a vile little man who has put his frail ego above the national interests.
Citizen Jerry| 1.13.12 @ 5:21PM
Instead, the Republicans are forcing on us a squishy moderate who will assure another four years for a vile little man who has put his frail ego above the national interests.
Margie| 1.13.12 @ 7:41PM
Nobody should drop out now.. let them duke it out, and may the best man win!
PCP Smoker| 1.13.12 @ 9:10PM
Loved the analysis. I'm still (slightly) hoping the "real" Perry can come through and take charge of the conservative base.
workingclass artist| 1.13.12 @ 9:33PM
I think the voters get to decide if Newt or Perry stay in the race not you Mr. Lord, or Rudy Guliani or Rush Limbaugh.
Yesterday the Citizen Legislators Act was filed by Illinois Congressman Timothy V. Johnson. The act calls for many of the things Gov. Perry calls for in his Washington reform plan.
“I applaud Rep. Johnson for filing legislation to create a part-time, citizen congress that will restore the vision of our founding fathers. This bill aligns closely with my Uproot and Overhaul Washington plan, which calls for cutting congressional sessions, staffs and salaries in half." - Gov. Perry 1/12/2012
the rest of his statement is at this link.
http://data.greenvilleonline.c.....ators-act/
Bob K.| 1.13.12 @ 10:22PM
Why, Mr. Lord, if there are a "1000 and one ways to go after Romney's record" are you limiting it to his being a "Massachusetts moderate" and putting his record as a "Vulture" (read crony) capitalist with Bain Capital out of bounds?
What is there about being a "capitalist" that makes some republicans reject all criticism of their behavior when capitalists exercise their power?
Even William F. Buckley recognized that the problems within capitalism came from capitalists! Every writer on AS is familiar with Willi Schlamm's comment which Buckley often cited: "The trouble with socialism is socialism. The trouble with capitalism is capitalists." Don't tell us you aren't familiar with it!
Every conservative reader on AS online is familiar with it. Stop treating your readers as if they were dummies!
Nite| 1.13.12 @ 11:12PM
I agree. Romney should have to answer. I expect the thousands of people who lost jobs, pensions, insurance and homes while Mitt was making money would tell a very different story.
Dai Alanye | 1.14.12 @ 2:58PM
The problem lies in Mitt having claimed that Bain created a hundred thousand jobs, strikingly similar to Obam's claims about the vast number of jobs his policies have created. Had Romney been willing to play it straight be'd be far better off now when his claims have dropped to "thousands."
Clint| 1.14.12 @ 3:44AM
Mittens' Campaign Money Trail.
Goldman Sachs $367,200
Credit Suisse Group $203,750
Morgan Stanley $199,800
HIG Capital $186,500
Barclays $157,750
Kirkland & Ellis $132,100
Bank of America $126,500
PriceWaterhouseCoopers $118,250
EMC Corp $117,300
JPMorgan Chase & Co $112,250
The Villages $97,500
Vivint Inc $80,750
Marriott International $79,837
Sullivan & Cromwell $79,250
Bain Capital $74,500
UBS AG $73,750
Wells Fargo $61,500
Blackstone Group $59,800
Citigroup Inc $57,050
Bain & Co $52,500
The Tea Party Rebellion Is In South Carolina.
celia| 1.16.12 @ 1:38AM
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