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The Spectacle Blog
At long last, Ron Santo is going to Cooperstown. Today, at MLB’s Winter Meetings in Dallas, the “Golden Era” Veterans Committee finally elected the legendary Chicago Cubs third baseman to the Baseball Hall of Fame.
The only problem is that Santo won’t be giving an acceptance speech next summer. Santo’s ascension comes just over a year after he passed away. On December 3, 2010, Santo died of complications of bladder cancer and diabetes at the age of 70.
Yes, Santo’s family is happy and they will get to enjoy his day in the sun. But shame on both the Baseball Writers Association of America (BBWAA) and earlier incarnations of the Veterans Committee for not accepting Santo and not having the wisdom to welcome him to his rightful place amongst the greatest to grace the hottest corner of our baseball fields.
Well, one can only hope that Ron Santo is somewhere in heaven clicking his heels.
View all comments (36) | Leave a comment
More Blog Posts by Aaron Goldstein
http://spectator.org/blog/2011/12/05/ron-santos-bittersweet-hall-of
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Bob K.| 12.5.11 @ 6:06PM
Regrets on his passing are noted herewith. He was a great player and a gentleman.
Bob K.| 12.5.11 @ 6:10PM
I have heard that all the living members of the Baseball Hall of Fame share in a portion of the profits of the Memorabilia that the Hall sells to the public.
If this is correct, could this be one reason why the Veteran's Committee waited to honor him posthumously?
Tom| 12.5.11 @ 7:31PM
Santo was a GREAT player for the Cubs. Well deserved honor that should have occurred much earlier.
Occam's Tool| 12.5.11 @ 7:57PM
A great player. A great team. I still love and admire Ernie Banks, his beloved teammate, for a kindness he did for me as a small child to this day. G-d Bless the Santo family and Ron.
Mike 3/505| 12.5.11 @ 9:39PM
I have never been a sports trivia guy...but I remember oh so long ago, a picture of Ron Santo on the cover of Boy's Life, entitled "Baseball's Best Third Baseman." 1969?? I think it was. Yeah, I'm old.
Regards,
Mike
RJ| 12.5.11 @ 10:29PM
Sometimes what you do off the field decides whether you get in the Hall of Fame or not. Ron Santo was a great role model for the kids. Congratulations, Ron. I just wish Maury Wills would be admitted into the Hall of Fame. He deserves it based what he did on the field.
somnolence| 12.5.11 @ 11:15PM
No, shame on the Hall Of Shame for once again overlooking Santo's equal as a ballplayer, Gil Hodges. Hodges was just as good a power hitter than Santo, if not better, played on pennant winners, whereas Santo didn't, was one of the greatest first basemen ever, in comparison to Santo's adequate performance at the hot corner. Santo deserves to be in Cooperstown's shrine, but Hodges should have been elected YEARS ago. I can no longer look at the committee as really serious historians of diamond lore, I really can't.
RJ| 12.5.11 @ 11:55PM
You are right - we can't take most awards very seriously. I never saw how Don Sutton, who was ace of the staff for only one or two years during his career, got into the HoF. The claim was his greatness was being good for several years. I have some favorite players whose stats match those in the Hall, but they never made it. Nonetheless, none of us need validation of an awards committee to recognize whose the best.
Aaron Goldstein| 12.6.11 @ 12:07AM
Don Sutton wasn't merely great for several years. He was great for more than two decades. Sutton won 324 big league games and struck out 3,574 batters. He's a bonafide Hall of Famer.
RJ| 12.6.11 @ 12:37AM
I beg to differ. Yes, he pitched well for many years, but in any season while pitching for the Dodgers, he usually was the second (or third) best starter on the team. Not great; good, but for a long time. Orel Hershiser didn't have the career stats, but was a much more valuable pitcher for the Dodgers before his arm injury.
Sutton was more interested in personal goals than in the team winning. Close to the end of his career (I think he was on the Angles at the time) he said his biggest moment was winning his 300th game, which was early in the season. The same week, Dodger shortstop Bill Russell was asked the same question. He mentioned a hit that he got, which led to the Dodgers winning a game that gave them the pennant. Which competitor would you rather have on your team? Russell was at his best in the batter's box in a clutch situation. You could count on Sutton getting bombed if he walked the opposing pitcher or if someone made an error in the field. Generally, he was not good in the clutch.
Aaron Goldstein| 12.6.11 @ 8:39AM
We'll have to agree to disagree. Sutton pitched 200 innings or more in 20 different seasons. That tells me he didn't get bombed too often.
Sutton was the undisputed ace of the Dodgers staff for most of the 1970s. Between 1972 and 1976, he finished in the top five in the NL Cy Young balloting. Sutton had impeccable control. On four occasions, Sutton led the NL with the fewest walks per nine innings.
I also don't buy your argument that he wasn't good in the clutch. When Walter Alston retired as manager of the Dodgers he gave Sutton a signed copy of his book with the inscription, "To Don, When it's on the line, I want you to have the ball."
Indeed, it is precisely why the Milwaukee Brewers acquired Sutton from the Houston Astros for the stretch run in 1982. On the last day of the season, Sutton pitched eight strong innings outlasting Jim Palmer en route to a 10-2 victory and an AL East Division title for Harvey's Wallbangers.
Occam's Tool| 12.6.11 @ 4:21PM
Don is a good guy. I worked with his brother, and got a personalized signed baseball from Don before he made the HOF (Yeah, I got it personalized because I wanted Don to know that I intended to keep it; and I still have it, even after moving to New Zealand and back home.) thanks to his brother, a superb penologist, Ron Sutton.
Santo was a great fielder, an excellent hitter, and a solid slugger. He also had a severe illness that could not be as well controlled as it could be today, playing day games at Wrigley. He was a great guy.
RJ| 12.6.11 @ 5:37PM
No problem with disagreements on sports discussions. That is what makes them lively. The Dodgers were my team during the Sutton era and I saw him pitch many times. He had an excellent curve ball and good control. He also was a high-ball pitcher (at least in his early days) who was vulnerable to the home run ball. He also was well known for doctoring the ball. He expressed that his entry into the Hall of Fame was a validation to his endurance, which I don't deny. My claim is that he usually wasn't the best pitcher on the Dodger starting staff. Here are some comparisons with other Dodger pitchers during his tenure with the team:
1966 – Koufax 27-9; 1,73 Osteen 17-14; 2.85 Sutton 12-12; 2.99
1967 – Drysdale 13-16; 2.74 Singer 12-8; 2.64; Sutton 11-15; 3.94
1968 – Drysdale 14-12; 2.15 Sutton 11-15; 2.60
1969 - Singer 20-12; 2.34 Osteen 20-15; 2.66 Sutton 17-18; 3.47
1970 - Osteen 16-14; 3.83 Sutton 15-13; 4.08
1971 – Downing 20-9; 2.68 Sutton 17-12; 2.54
1972 - Osteen 20-11; 2.64 Sutton 19-9; 2.08
1973 - Messersmith 14-12; 2.70 Sutton 18-10; 2.42
1974 - Messersmith 20-6; 2.54 Tommy John 13-3; 2.59 Sutton 19-9; 3.23
1975 - Messersmith 19-14; 2.29 Hooton 18-7; 2.82 Sutton 16-13; 2.87
1976 – Rau 16-12; 2.57 Rhoden 12-3; 2.98 Sutton 21-10; 3.06
1977 - Tommy John 20-7; 2.78 Hooton 12-7; 2.62 Sutton 14-8; 3.18
1978 – Hooton 19-10; 2.71; Rau 15-9; 3.26 John 17-10; 3.30 Sutton 15-11; 3.66
1979 - Hooton 11-10 2.97 Sutcliffe 17-10 3.46 Sutton 12-15; 3.82
1980 – Reuss 18-6 2.51 Sutton 13-5; 2.20
For most of the Sutton years, Dodgers Stadium was a great pitchers' park. Jerry Reuss did a several year study comparing the eras of Dodger pitchers home and away. There was a very dramatic difference. Reuss mentioned that he was surprised at how big a difference it was for him.
Cpm| 12.6.11 @ 11:12AM
300 victories is the generally accepted HOF benchmark for pitchers.
Ricco| 12.6.11 @ 9:07AM
If you look at Ken Boyers' numbers and awards, they are similar to Santo's. I wonder why he is not in as well.
Occam's Tool| 12.6.11 @ 4:17PM
Somnolence, 99% of the time I agree with you, but..."adequate performance?" 5 Gold Gloves while playing with juvenile diabetes is "adequate" performance? There was only 1 better fielder in the majors at the hot corner when Santo played, and that was Brooks.
Hodges deserves to go in for a combination of play and management.
Cpm| 12.5.11 @ 11:28PM
Maybe the HOF voters resented the shameless campaigning.
somnolence| 12.5.11 @ 11:47PM
There is no shame in campaigning for Hodges. If the voters can't take criticism then they might consider anger management courses, or adapting to critical thinking about baseball history. It is beyond ridiculous that Gil Hodges isn't in the Hall, but someone like Rabbit Maranville is.
Cpm| 12.6.11 @ 11:13AM
I meant the shameless campaigning for Santo.
Occam's Tool| 12.6.11 @ 4:22PM
Shameless? He was better than 1/2 the 3rd basemen in the HOF, and did it with a life threatening illness.
ggoblue| 12.6.11 @ 12:04AM
what can i say? i hate the hall of fame. its a new york/boston hall of fame.
how can a guy like bill freehan catch 11 all star games, in the era when his peers did the voting, and not even sniff the hall of fame?
how can alan trammel and lou whittaker turn twice as many double plays as any other combo in history, and not even sniff the hall of fame?
of course santo should have been there long ago...but my guess is he wasn't a brown nose.
astorian| 12.6.11 @ 8:20AM
Suuuuure, it's a New York Hall of Fame. Look at how New York players like Ron Guidry, Don Mattingly, Gil Hodges, Thurman Munson, Allie Reynolds, Elston Howard, Roger Maris, Tommy Heinrich, Charlie Keller and Graig Nettles just coasted into the Hall of Fame on the first ballot.
Oh wait... NONE of those guys got into the Hall of Fame at all.
Come to think of it, there are FAR more undeserving St. Louis Cardinals than undeserving Yankees in the Hall of Fame.
Aaron Goldstein| 12.6.11 @ 9:09AM
Am I correct to presume that you are a Tigers fan?
I agree with you regarding Whitaker, Trammell and Bill Freehan. Whitaker and Trammell are the greatest double play combo of all time. Cooperstown greatly undervalues defense. The Veterans Committee should definitely take a closer look at Freehan. He was certainly the best catcher in the American League for more than a decade.
However, I disagree that it is a "New York/Boston" Hall of Fame. Since 1986, the only Red Sox that have been inducted are Bobby Doerr, Yaz, Carlton Fisk and Jim Rice. Over that same period, the only Yankees that have been inducted are Reggie Jackson, Dave Winfield, Goose Gossage and Joe Gordon via the Veterans Committee. In Reggie's case, while he wears a Yankee cap in his plaque, he was honored on the strength of his stats with the Oakland A's.
Wayne| 12.6.11 @ 7:47AM
It was exactly the same with Nellie Fox. He missed getting voted in by the writers by 2 votes. Yet the writers can write in former Cubs Williams and Dawson who have no business in the HOF.
Who think Paul Konerko for example is HOF material, yet his numbers are better than Dawson and he has several years of play left. Harold Baines also has numbers comparable to Dawson yet he got 5 percent of the vote.
The HOF is more a popularity contest than merit based.
Aaron Goldstein| 12.6.11 @ 9:27AM
Nellie Fox was inducted into the Hall of Fame by the Veterans Committee in 1997. He should have been inducted sooner. Unfortunately, there is a bias against punch and judy hitters.
There is also a bias against DHs. This is what worked against Harold Baines. He might get another look down the line if Edgar Martinez is ever inducted.
Paul Konerko has a chance to hit 500 homeruns before it's all said and done. He certainly has a chance to go to Cooperstown.
Both Dawson and Williams are Hall of Famers in my book.
Occam's Tool| 12.6.11 @ 4:23PM
Billie's an iron man, the Hawk won the MVP for a last place team.
Aaron Goldstein| 12.6.11 @ 4:32PM
Andre Dawson was an offensive juggernaut with power and speed as well as perennial Gold Glove winner for his play in centerfield with the Montreal Expos. Twice he finished runner up in the NL MVP race (1981 & 1983) before injuring his knees in 1984.
Many people thought Dawson was done when he signed with the Cubs prior to the 1987 season. Remember he signed a blank contract. For $500,000, The Hawk hit .287 with 49 homeruns and 137 RBI en route to his only NL MVP.
Casey Abell| 12.6.11 @ 9:13AM
I never understood why sportswriters snubbed Santo year after year in the HOF balloting. Sure, sportswriters are idiots, but after a while even idiots can get some things right.
Too bad he couldn't have enjoyed the day at Cooperstown.
Occam's Tool| 12.6.11 @ 4:27PM
Yeah, I agree. Heel clicking seems rather inconsequential, and, given that he had Juvenile Diabetes, there may have been more than 1 reason for it.
Casey, where did Billy Williams fall on the list?
Casey Abell| 12.6.11 @ 9:35AM
By the way, I checked baseball-reference.com's ranking of all players (pitchers and position players) for the names mentioned in this thread. Sure, it's just a stat system and imperfect like any other stat system. So spare me that usual lecture. But what the hey, the rankings...
Santo 105
Banks 119
Wills 591
Hodges 332
Sutton 111
Hershiser 211
Trammell 101
Whitaker 84
Freehan 335
Guidry 337
Mattingly 423
Munson 353
Reynolds 810
Howard 760
Maris 423
Henrich 480
Keller 353
Nettles 142
Konerko 855
Baines 495
If you're in the top couple hundred, you probably deserve induction...barring, let's just say, other factors. (Bonds and Clemens are in the TOP TEN. I don't expect to see them at Cooperstown any time soon.)
Anyway, from this list I would say Whitaker, Trammell, and Nettles deserve a plaque, and Hershiser should get at least strong consideration. But I doubt any of them will ever make it.
Santo, Banks and Sutton definitely deserve their places in the Hall.
Then come a bunch of possibles: Hodges, Munson, Freehan, Guidry, Keller. I think the odds are very long on them.
astorian| 12.6.11 @ 10:53AM
Mind you, even though I'm a (presumably) baised Yankees fan, I was NOT arguing that Ron Guidry and Don Mattingly (two of my favorite players ever) DESERVE to be Hall of Famers. I think both were great players and great guys who just didn't have enough stellar seasons to merit a spot in Cooperstown.
I was merely using them to prove a point. All over the South and Midwest, you'll find fans griping that the :New York Media" are biased in favor of the Yankees, and that the Yankees get all kinds of honors they don't deserve.
I point out that, IF this were true, there ought to be a LOT more Yankees and MEts in the Hall of Fame. Ron Guidry and Don Mattingly are beloved in New York, and were very popular with sportswriters. If New York Media Bias mattered, both guys would have been Hall of Famers. But they're not, and NEVER got much support. Keith Hernadez and Gil Hodegs are two of the greatest first basemen ever, but the "New York Media" never put them in the Hall OF Fame.
Graig Nettles and Thurman Munson got practically NO support from the writers for the Hall of Fame. Is that a cosmic injustice? No- but if "New York Media Bias" were real, both guys should have gotten FAR more votes than they did.
The writers aren't always right, but they generally try hard to cast intelligent, honest votes. There may be a few guys they've elected that I wouldn't have (Jim Rice, Andre Dawson) and there may be a few guys I'd have voted for that they didn't. But regional bias has NOTHING to do with it.
Casey Abell| 12.6.11 @ 9:38AM
Oh, I missed Andre Dawson, who was mentioned in the thread. His induction has always been controversial, but he ranks 180. Maybe not a lock but hardly a disgrace to the Hall. I'd say he deserves the plaque.
Casey Abell| 12.6.11 @ 10:00AM
Gee, more names keep getting added. Some more rankings...
Doerr 276
Yaz 42
Fisk 96
Rice 389
Jackson 71
Winfield 156
Gossage 429
Gordon 201
Martinez 100
Fox 337
Yaz, Jackson and Fisk are obvious and noncontroversial. Winfield is pretty much accepted. But there are certainly some questionable HOFers in the list.
I strongly disagreed with Rice and Gossage, and I still do. Rice flamed out early, and Gossage got inducted as a protest against one-inning specialist relievers. With Gossage the old-fart sportswriters got into one of their when-men-were-men moods.
Gordon? Okay, not overwhelming but hardly outrageous. Doerr? Always controversial, but the plaque is defensible.
Edgar Martinez deserves induction but DH-phobia will get him, as Aaron says. Sportswriters are crusty and clueless.
astorian| 12.6.11 @ 10:44AM
About Don Sutton...
Ask most fans "Should Steve Carloton have been a first ballot Hall of Famer," and almost all of them would say, "Are you kidding? Of COURSE he was!" Ask them about Don Sutton, and most would say, "Well.... he was certainly a very GOOD pitcher for a long time, but I don't see him as an all-time great."
But as Joe Posnanski (one of my favorite sportswriters) puts it, if you look at their CAREER stats, Don Sutton and Steve Carlton are almost IDENTICAL. In terms of wins, strikeouts, ERA, etc., Don Sutton pretty much WAS Steve Carlton.
So, why the huge difference in how they're perceved? It really comes down to one thing: Steve Carlton had a handful of SPECTACULAR seasons (especially in 1972) that made everyone sit up and take notice. Don Sutton never had a season like that. Sutton quietly went 17-10 or 18-12 with a 3.00 ERA every year for 20 years.
Aaron Goldstein| 12.6.11 @ 1:17PM
I'm a big Don Sutton fan but there are several factors which made Steve Carlton a first ballot Hall of Famer.
First, he was lefthanded. While Sutton is a bonafide Hall of Famer he probably isn't amongst the top ten all-time greatest righthanded pitchers although probably in the top twenty. Carlton, on the other hand, is arguably the best lefthanded pitcher to toe the mound although I think great arguments could be made for Warren Spahn, Lefty Grove and Sandy Koufax. Carlton is certainly in the top five amongst southpaws.
Second, Carlton won four NL Cy Young Awards (1972, 1977, 1980 & 1982). This feat was later matched by Greg Maddux and Randy Johnson who won their awards in consecutive years. Sutton never won a NL Cy Young although he finished in the top five in voting every year between 1972 and 1976.
Third, Carlton struck out over 4,000 batters. I remember when he and Nolan Ryan passed Walter Johnson on the top of the all-time strikeout list in the early 1980s. For a time, Carlton was MLB's all-time strikeout leader until Ryan pulled ahead for good. Randy Johnson and Roger Clemens are the only other pitchers with more than 4,000 strikeouts.
RJ| 12.6.11 @ 5:51PM
You are right and I always thought that dominance was what the Hall of Fame was about. You had to be in the league for at least 10 years and show dominance in some of those years (e.g. MVP Cy Young). Koufax is a great example. He got in the Hall of Fame based on 4 great years. These days with players playing longer, it is harder to agree upon who should be in the HoF.