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The Spectacle Blog
In response to some of his GOP opponents criticisms that his 9-9-9 tax plan would penalize the poor, Herman Cain has included a provision for his plan that would eliminate the income tax component of the plan for those at or below the poverty level. In other words, for low-income people the plan is a 9-0-9 plan.
Although the 9-9-9/9-0-9 is an improvement over the original 9-9-9, there are a few remaining problems. Phil Klein notes that cutting income taxes for poor folks means a loss of revenue (meaning that rates will likely have to rise to raise the revenue Cain wants) and a loss of simplicity, which was the 9-9-9’s key selling point.
Those are just details, though. For the campaign trail, the larger issue might be that its effects on the poor were only one problem with the 9-9-9 plan. There are many more that Cain hasn’t addressed. Now that he’s addressed one objection, Cain may have committed himself to spending a lot of time revising and defending his plan, when he could be better served focusing on other campaign issues.
Update: See Quin Hillyer’s response.
View all comments (26) | Leave a comment
More Blog Posts by Joseph Lawler
http://spectator.org/blog/2011/10/21/herman-cain-will-probably-revi
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Ryan Ellis | 10.21.11 @ 3:08PM
This is not quite accurate. 9-0-9 would only provide a poverty deduction for those living within an opportunity zone. It would retain first-dollar taxation for anyone living outside the zone.
RTFA| 10.21.11 @ 3:25PM
No, read the article. The opportunity zone affects a different component entirely, the corporate tax. So it's the 9-9-9/9-0-9/9-9-0 plan.
Ryan Ellis | 10.21.11 @ 3:41PM
No, you are wrong. Read what Cain's website has to say about this:
9% Individual Flat Tax.
Gross income less charitable deductions.
Empowerment Zones will offer additional deductions for those living and/or working in the zone.
RTFA| 10.21.11 @ 5:03PM
"The former Godfather's Pizza CEO also laid out his "opportunity zone" proposal. Under his current plan, businesses would be allowed to deduct purchases from the 9% corporate tax provision. But in cities facing high unemployment–the so-called "opportunity zones"–businesses could also deduct a certain amount of payroll expenses from their corporate taxes."
Jack in Wi.| 10.21.11 @ 5:23PM
999 is just a pile of incoherent hooey that Herman Cain got from his old buddies at the Federal Reseve. It is a huge new national sales tax ment to bail out big government and big goverment programs. Anyone who wants to stick a huge new souce of fundng in the hands of the Federal government is an enemy to all conservatives. Herman Cain is my sworn enemy.
Occam's Tool| 10.21.11 @ 9:27PM
Excellent, jack. Another reason for me to support him, as I am your sworn enemy, as well.
Jack in Wi.| 10.22.11 @ 12:46AM
Occam: You will support anyone who kisses Israel's rear end. You could care less about what happens to this country. Why don't you just go back to the West Bank with the other crazy settlers. In fact you are probably there already.
Lullabys, Legends and Lies| 10.21.11 @ 3:19PM
The 9-0-9 plan option instead of the 9-9-9 plan doesn't work at all for me!! Now no offense to the "poor", but the whole reason why people like this idea is, it makes everybody pay "their fair share". So if you change the rules, and set a ceiling that anybody below doesn't pay, well then you know what will happen when the Democrats take control of Congress again? They will raise that ceiling so more people don't pay taxes again!! Then we're right back to where we started, with almost 50% of all Americans not paying for anything. It sucks to be poor, I know this, I've been there, and I'm barely out of there right now. But, and this is a big BUT, everybody has to pay, even if they pay a lot less than the wealthy do. Everybody has to have skin in the game, otherwise they don't have any reason to put the brakes on the Government when it comes to raising taxes, and spending money like drug addicts. If you don't like being poor, than ask yourself a question, what have you done to change your economic state? Watching TV, and playing video games doesn't make you a better candidate for a job. Having no High School diploma doesn't move you to the top of the list when a company is hiring. We all have sad stories to tell, I've got a really sad story, but guess what? Nobody wants to hear yours!! So ask yourself, why would somebody "want" to hire you? And then do something to get yourself to that point!! It's your life, so do something with it!! Or don't!! I really don't care!! But I'll tell you what, when you receive your welfare check in the mail, I want to be damn sure that taxes are coming out of it, and your helping to pay for our new roads, our Police and Firefighters, and all the wonderful things that our taxes pay for (including your damn welfare check, minus the taxes that are coming out of it if the 9-9-9 plan was put in place)!! The 9-9-9 plan is pretty good, the 9-0-9 plan is stupid!!
A little common sense| 10.21.11 @ 3:29PM
If taxes went DOWN the more money you earned the poor would get off their lazy butts and make themselves rich. Tax the first ten thousand dollars at 90% with a sliding scale down to zero at one million dollars. Problem solved.
ncatty| 10.21.11 @ 4:10PM
Good one!
Minuteman78| 10.21.11 @ 4:21PM
You just proved my contention that people who are congenitally mentally impaired shouldn't vote. Just as a thought experiment, I worked out the math on this. In $10,000 increments, there would be 100 brackets, each rate reducing taxes by .09%. So here's a typical milemarker: Income of $100K, Tax rate 81% or $81K. $19K Net, $1,583 take home each month. Right now most homes earning that Gross will Net at least $5,000. Am I supposed to clip more coupons or shop at Target to make up the shortfall? Or am I supposed to ask my Employer for a $110K raise because at $210K, NOW I'm gratefully taking home $5K a month at a 68% tax rate, because Skippy McWhizBang, economic advisor to President Lacqueredhair, decided this regressive tax scheme was a 'neat idea - problem solved'. Please tell us what you are smoking and/or drinking so we can stay away from it...
A little common sense| 10.21.11 @ 4:34PM
Under my plan your SECOND million is completely tax free. So is your third and your fourth.
The problem is that, as you put it, you are happy to get 5000 a month. You set your sights low because the more you make the more you are taxed. If making more money would CUT your taxes, even to zero, you would set your sights HIGH.
Clint| 10.21.11 @ 3:41PM
Sooooo, If Ya Ain't In Cain's Opportunity Zones Then,
" The business portion of Cain’s plan apparently does not allow employers to deduct wages and salaries, which means — for all intents and purposes — that they would levy a 9 percent withholding tax on employee compensation. And that would be in addition to the 9 percent they presumably would withhold for the flat tax portion of Cain’s plan.
Employers use withholding in the current system, of course, but at least taxpayers are given credit for all that withheld tax when filling out their 1040 tax forms. Under Cain’s 9-9-9 plan, however, employees would only get credit for monies withheld for the flat tax.
In other words, there are two income taxes in Cain’s plan — the 9 percent flat tax and the hidden 9 percent income tax that is part of the VAT (this hidden income tax on wages and salaries, by the way, is a defining feature of a VAT)."
Teflon93| 10.21.11 @ 4:04PM
How is that an improvement?
Since when do conservatives believe that we should create a vaste horde of Americans with every incentive to vote themselves other people's wealth through ever-increasing taxation?
Al Adab| 10.21.11 @ 4:16PM
Should we not at least credit Mr. Cain for having proposed a plan at least as a starting point for debate? Who else in the field of GOP candidates has done so? Here at least we have a starting point in re-creating what has been a disaster of a tax code, at least as it has evolved over the last fourty years or so. I welcome the opportunity to have something on the table for discussion.
Mal_Content| 10.21.11 @ 4:34PM
"Should we not at least credit Mr. Cain for having proposed a plan at least as a starting point for debate? Who else in the field of GOP candidates has done so? "
Well, the one guy who has proposed $1Trillion in cuts is a "kook", so I guess he doesn't merit mentioning.
A little common sense| 10.21.11 @ 4:59PM
Ron Paul is a kook, but not because of the spending cuts. He has some good ideas. If he could avoid the kooky stuff he could be a serious candidate.
Jack in Wi.| 10.21.11 @ 5:29PM
No common sense. Ron Paul has all the common sense. Name one idea of his that is kooky, cutting taxes, slashing government spending, following the Constitution, getting us out of these senseless and illegal wars. The military knows he is the best man. The active military knows he is the best man. They give him more contributions then the whole rest of the field combined, including Obama.
W| 10.21.11 @ 7:19PM
Al
Cain deserves much credit for raising the issue, but he should have been better prepared. The best plan is one that reduces the power of the IRS and the Congress that passes tax laws to favor favored groups. I think the best is a sales tax with an exemption for food, clothing, medical devices, medical prescriptions, and other necessities. This would reduce the power of IRS and Congress and restore some of our privacy.
Margie| 10.21.11 @ 8:12PM
Al,
My thoughts, precisely. sigh.
bluecollarbytes| 10.21.11 @ 7:59PM
J Lawler-"Cain may have committed himself to spending a lot of time revising and defending his plan, when he could be better served focusing on other campaign issues. "
Cain presented what he believes is a clear-cut answer to the jobs-question, with almost no consideration for the politics of it.
The politics would have probably never had him proposing this plan. But then we do need a plan, an comprehensive ideologically-based politically-acceptable plan.
____________________
see Romney. see Romney consider the politics of everything.
Margie| 10.21.11 @ 8:13PM
I like this post. Well said.
Simon Templar| 10.21.11 @ 11:45PM
Well, let us review. We have an author on TAS that likes to shoot his mouth off about a plan that he apparently did not read himself that contradicts his assertions.
We have a thread of supposed conservative bloggers who claim with such ferocity that the plans is great, others that it stinks, others that it should be taxing all wage earners, others that say no that will never fly, others that claim tax reform is not important, others that that say it is.
Hmm, and you wonder why he is not spending every waking hour revising this plan.
At this rate, Obammy will sail into another 4 years on a cool breeze...
While Rome burns, the rest of you can sit in your basements and lament about how Ron Paul never got a fair shake, Romney should have won, Perry really got screwed, Bachman really never had a chance, well, Gingrich really was the most capable but you know about that baggage thing....
Margie| 10.22.11 @ 2:01AM
Well Simon you are correct as usual. What I am doing is praying that there are enough sane people who will vote for Herman Cain.
He just won another straw poll, and individuals are sending him money.
The Washington Times is reporting:
Cain tops field again in Nevada GOP straw poll:
http://www.washingtontimes.com.....traw-poll/
Jack in Wi.| 10.22.11 @ 12:56AM
Simon Templar for once I agree. the Republcian party is on the road to extiction. The demographics are against it and no pro-war, pro bankster flunky can win the election. Obama has a billion dollars and a huge corrupt goverment machine. He would win re-election easily in better times. Now he will be able to run as the peace candidate for supposedly getting us out of Iraq and getting Bin Laden. Ron Paul is the only guy who has attracted any new blood to the party in a decade and most of you guys here are against him. Most of you chickenhawks here, love war and big government. Well I said it before and I will say it again it is Ron Paul or ruin. No prowar, pro bailouts for the rich person can win for thr Republicans.
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