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The Spectacle Blog
Last week Jim Geraghty quite reasonably asked why Republican presidential candidates who want to beat Mitt Romney attack other potential anti-Romneys rather than Romney himself. In tonight’s debate, I think we saw part of the answer: some of them aren’t up to the job of attacking Romney.
Rick Perry flailed in his dust-ups with Romney, seeming out of his depth even in the obviously rehearsed lawn care company attack. Herman Cain did a bit better in the Wall Street/Main Street distinction he tried to draw between their between the two of them. Rick Santorum was the most effective Romney critic of all, especially on health care, relishing the role of attack dog in these debates.
Cain struggled to defend the details of his of 999 plan, basically asking people to just take his campaign’s word for it that all criticisms are bogus, and failed to say much of anything coherent on foreign policy. But he remained likable and had his fingers firmly on the pulse of the Republican primary voter, and the reaction on social networking sites suggested that many of his admirers will simply view 999 critics as defenders of the tax code status quo. We’ll have to look at the polls to judge whether the attacks on Cain had any real impact.
Ron Paul was the only candidate on stage to offer any large, specific spending cuts. He was also the only one to make the important distinction between being pro-free market and pro-Wall Street, which is something Republicans ought to remember. But even in a generally sound performance, he always has his off moments, such as when he appeared to endorse something like Iran/Contra (Cain made a similar comment) and a bailout for homeowners. He’ll need to work on the free-market populism bit.
Romney turned in a very strong performance, though a few times he seemed to lose his cool under assault. He doesn’t get hit as much in these debates because he doesn’t seem to be as hated by the rest of the field as he was in 2008, with the possible exceptions of Perry and Jon Huntsman.
Newt Gingrich always does well, but never well enough to suspect his campaign is going anywhere. Michele Bachmann is right that the cake is baked, though not in the way that she means.
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More Blog Posts by W. James Antle, III
http://spectator.org/blog/2011/10/18/parting-debate-thoughts
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Mike | 10.18.11 @ 10:39PM
The debate was better than the programming on Comedy Central and provided SNL and the late night hosts plenty of material.
Bob Grant| 10.18.11 @ 10:57PM
We'll. They need all the help they can get because they are certainly lacking in the creativity department. On a week-to-week basis, their "comedy" show has the quality of these debates. Probably less.
Stefan Stackhouse| 10.19.11 @ 9:44AM
The one big improvement would be to have one candidate voted off, "Survivor" style, at the end of each debate. (Not by the candidates themselves, of course, but maybe by some panel of expert citizens selected randomly from the phone book.)
John| 10.18.11 @ 10:40PM
Gov. Rick Perry is the ultimate GOP candidate who can defeat Barack Obama, because of his fiscal and social conservative record as a governor of Texas, even though he may not shine as good as Herman Cain (he is a phony RINO who just wants fame).
Casey Abell| 10.18.11 @ 10:53PM
Lazy so I'll just crosspost my comments from NRO, where Ponnuru had some slightly nice things to say about Rick Perry...
Well, gee, it's nice that somebody thinks Perry did better. I thought he was up for it early, then got a little too rude with Romney on immigration, then sort of fell asleep. Overall, he was a little more active and competent, but I don't see my guy coming back very far on this performance. Otherwise...
Romney took some hits but did okay. Gingrich was fun as usual. Cain...oh gee, I'll get it from the Caniacs. But his answers on 9-9-9 were canned and unresponsive and the plan may be getting changed, anyway. As usual he had little of interest to say on any other subject.
Santorum was the usual attack dog. At least he keeps things percolating. Bachmann tried to be sweetness and light and Mommie To The World. Better than complaining about vaccines but pretty boring. And Ron Paul is just Ron Paul. He don't like Israel. He don't like the Fed. He don't like much of anything.
CalMark| 10.18.11 @ 10:53PM
This was "CNN for Romney."
Anytime Romney's name was even mentioned, he got rebuttal time. Bachmann got snarked by Perry ("I've been a governor dealing with the border and no member of Congress should lecture me because laws come from Congress"--um, Rick--laws are ENFORCED from the White House, babe.), Anderson Cooper shouted her down while Romney rolled over her. Very distasteful.
It's easy for Romney to look good when the game is rigged in his favor. Santorum did everyone a big favor by bringing up lots of inconvenient facts. Romney spent a lot of time denying them (what we in the real world call, "lying.")
Clint| 10.18.11 @ 10:59PM
Follow The campaign money trail & see who Capitalist Cronyism is greasing.
bluecollarbytes| 10.18.11 @ 11:06PM
Romney's attempt to score points on his religion 'uproar' was sorta classless. Realistically, he should be grateful if evangelicals decide to put the 'cult' question aside.
but then again, Perry and Romney deserved each other.
Cain will have to expand beyond 999, like by explaining what leads up to that. And if, as happens in politics/policy, it takes years for such a gargantuan change as 999, what can he do prior to imagining its passage?
Proud Mormon| 10.18.11 @ 11:11PM
Mormon Power! Mitt mopped up the floor with this Tea Party infested bunch. Romney has won every single debate so how many more times does he have to win to convince Republicans he is the best candidate? Perry is a meandering heartless politician criticizing Mitt over immigration. Criticizing Mitt or anyone else over immigration is the height of hypocrisy. Cain needs to dial 911-H-E-L-P what an awful debate performance. Santorum crushed 59-41 last time, what is this pathetic misinformed loser doing in this campaign? Tomorrow’s headline “GOP establishment rolls, Mitt defeats Tea Party wannabes again”
Bob Grant| 10.18.11 @ 11:27PM
Insulting the Tea Party crowd is Romney's recipe for success?
Clint| 10.19.11 @ 12:29AM
That's Why Grant's A Failure.
bluecollarbytes| 10.19.11 @ 12:18AM
Is that what they call 'Mormon power'? another reason to resist Romney's sweet nothings.
ImissBuckley31| 10.19.11 @ 12:28AM
With emphasis on the "nothings." Because they mean nothing.
Clint| 10.18.11 @ 11:43PM
"Let's See Mr.Wall Street Romney explain the case of Dade International, a medical testing company acquired by Bain and Goldman Sachs in 1994. As Bloomberg reported, Bain cut 1,600 jobs from the company between 1996 and 1999 after merging the company with several others as part of Bain's restructuring plan. In 1999, Bain and Goldman sold Dade International, as it was later called, for a profit, but left the company buried in debt. It filed for bankruptcy in 2002."
RJ| 10.19.11 @ 1:01AM
In football terms, its still spring practice. The debaters have gotten better, but much improvement is needed. Someone will emerge, but right now each of the candidates look limited. I thought tonight's debate was a step backward for most of them. Thankfully, its still early.
Pecos Pete| 10.19.11 @ 7:09AM
Ditto.
JimH| 10.19.11 @ 9:49AM
Luckily for whoever wins, no one but hard core political junkies are watching. The candidates should lay off sniping at each other as it does nothing but provide ammo for the Dems in the general election.
buckeyeman| 10.19.11 @ 11:52AM
Actually, I think it's nearly over. Bachman's pathetic performance cooked her goose. Ron Paul never had a chance but may tire of bringing up his sometimes valid points. Santorum needs to attend his anger management classes. Perry just isn't up to it. I love Cain but he just isn't up on the issues. I could explain why 9-9-9 is a reasonable option for consideration, but Cain apparently can not. Newt's always smart but cannot be considered a contender.
Looks like I'll have to hold my nose again when I vote. One question remains. Will it really be better to have a pretend conservative in power when the nation's economy implodes (I don't think we can continue like this for longer than another five years) or would it be better for the Kenyan Marxist to be at the helm and drown these rats in the wreckage? I don't know.
martin j smith| 10.19.11 @ 7:39AM
Itd not about being liked or disliked its about exposing his policies which are crucial in a choice for Presidential candidate. They have a long way to go but here is my take.
It is up to each candidate to convince the voters ( remember them ? ) that a) they actually want to be President and b) they are the best suited.
It terms of desiring the job --Romney wants it but in terms of he assumes it is his to own. Cain is highly motivated and shows he wants to be President. But, do either qualify. Time will tell. There are many questions yet to be answered.
the other candidates for one reason or another are not up their --Paul for me is a non started--he is half an Obama and I do not like his half of the loaf an isolationist.
Ken (Old Texican)| 10.19.11 @ 8:51AM
In my heart of hearts…………..
It is about thirty minutes before the CNN circular shooting gallery called a debate.
I must first say that Governor Perry has embarrassed me as a Texan in the prior debates.
Evidently, he has yet to figure out the underlying purpose of these so-called “debates”…and has not responded well up until now.
In case you folks have not figured it out yet….these debates are designed to put Obama back in office, (while increasing TV ratings of course).
I truly hope Perry and his team have figured that salient fact out as well. Mr. Cain CANNOT go the distance which puts Romney in as the default option. That makes me sick at heart.
Even if Mitt wins, he will be a wilted shrub. He has no interest at all in rolling back the communism we have been subjected to. He will waffle at every turn, when what we need is responsible governance.
…………AND the morning following the debate…..
Well, I have read all the blogs and comments this morning. Heh, they all include Perry’s “performance at arguing”, but no substance about what Mr. Perry said and stands firm for.
Folks, Mr. Perry said as clearly as possible how he would put two million people back to work…QUICKLY…in solid jobs with a future, in the energy industry. He was ignored and/or called a “one trick pony”.
What he could have said if given the time is that those two million jobs would QUICKLY spin off a couple of million additional good jobs, in manufacturing energy equipment and infrastructure…..IF the regulatory noose were loosened and the stupid spendings were cut. (think the trillion dollars spent on “global warming fears” ie: green jobs.)
Finally, Mr. Perry doesn’t throw out candy-Cains, but points to his record of accomplishing the solid business environment Texas enjoys, and merely invites the rest of the country to join us in our success.
Unlike Mr. Cain, Mr. Perry owns several pairs of boots…very useful for wading through the cess-pool that is Washington DC.
buckeyeman| 10.19.11 @ 11:57AM
Yes, Perry COULD have said some of those things if he wasn't consumed with attacking Romney on such trivial issues as who's responsible for managing the personnel for a lawn care company. Perry has either done us all a great disservice by convincing us that, despite his many strong conservative stances, he's too petty and dense to be our president, or perhaps he's done us all a great service for the same reasons.
Margie| 10.19.11 @ 2:08PM
Sorry, but Perry seemed more candy-cainish than just about anyone up there.
It's like his standing there alone was supposed to convince us.
Just BECAUSE.
If you can't even TALK...
Derek Leaberry| 10.19.11 @ 9:36AM
Cain's 9-9-9 plan not only guarantees half of Americans receiving substantial tax hikes, it assures a landslide Obama victory in 2012 if Cain is the Republican nominee. The Republicans would take a pounding in the House and perhaps the Senate as well.
O Tamandua| 10.19.11 @ 10:11AM
I listen to evangelical Christian radio pretty much every day. So it's been interesting that in the past week I've heard several analyses of Mormonism. Please read: not "putdowns of Mormons" but rather "analysis of Mormonism", specifically whether that religion is a genuine branch of Christianity.
(This is not my main point but I'll add: the answer is "No" on three counts. Long quick answer: Mormonism isn't Christianity because: A) it does not teach that there is one God; B) it teaches Jesus was a created being, and; C) Mormonism (like all other non-Christian religions) teaches salvation by works, not by Christ's grace. Short quick answer: Respectfully asked, can anyone find a Mormon church anywhere that displays a cross?)
What this tells me is that evangelicals are watching this Republican process closely. I'm not sure they'll be anti-Romney if he's the nominee. Chuck Colson, as evangelical as they come, made a very loving, analytical defense of Gov. Romney as a candidate. I, too, will vote for Romney over Obama if their match happens, but with a lot of prayer.
As a side note, I, too, think Romney's faith will be gone after heavily if he's the nominee, and my gut feeling is that Mormonism's history antipathy toward black people may be brought up.
O Tamandua| 10.19.11 @ 10:16AM
Let me add, although Mr. Colson was complimentary toward Gov. Romney in his recent column the former also clearly stated the Mormonism isn't Christianity.
buckeyeman| 10.19.11 @ 12:03PM
What about the snake-handling, tongue-speaking, faith-healing Pentecostal fundamentalists? The business of determining which religion resembles a "cult" is dangerous business indeed, as is the business of who has the right to call themselves Christians. The fundamental tenets and beliefs of "traditional" Christianity look pretty cultish when viewed objectively.
O Tamandua| 10.19.11 @ 1:52PM
Buckeyeman, actually, if you're calling your religion "Christian" determining what is and what isn't a "cult" is pretty easy from scripture.
buckeyeman| 10.19.11 @ 6:32PM
Well, I know what you mean, but a close look always leaves me scratching my head. Mormons believe in the Bible, but also the Book of Mormon. A "cult" is defined as a group whose belief or practices are abnormal or bizarre. Sounds easy enough until you consider that almost everyone's religious beliefs look bizarre to those who don't believe them.
Ganesh is a four armed elephant deity riding a mouse with a snake for a belt and a broken tusk in one of his four hands used to write the Mahabharata. Sounds pretty bizarre to me but then again, Ganesh is one of the best known and most widely revered deities in Hinduism. Is it really more bizarre than Immacualte Conception, Virgin Birth, or Resurrection?
I was raised a Lutheran and my (non-cultish) wife is a Catholic but this transsubstantiation thing is just plain loopy to me. Is it more loopy than believing the original, authentic Garden of Eden is in Missouri??? Who can say. So Mormons aren't Christians. OK, but you didn't answer my question about snake-handling, toungue-speaking, faith-healing Pentecostals.
buckeyeman| 10.19.11 @ 6:34PM
By the way, I think a lot of fundamentalist Christians do not really believe that Catholics are true Christians. What say you.
martin j smith| 10.19.11 @ 10:36AM
The question is do we want a candidate with has one foot on the Crony Capitalist camp or Socialism light and the other playing footsie with Tea Party Free Market supporters ? This would describe my view of Romney.
WJ| 10.19.11 @ 12:12PM
Perry is hopeless. Any rational person who has lived in Texas and has seen him in action would know that. He is a knucklehead with some good ideas but that will not win this upcoming election.
I don't like liberal(relatively) Romney but right now I see nobody else able to beat Obama.
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