The American Spectator : The Spectacle Blog : Perry's Awful Night

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Rick Perry has not been doing all that well in these debates, and he isn't improving. His standing in the polls paints a target on his back, of course, but that just means the attacks are predictable, and he doesn't seem all that well-prepared to counter them. To take one example, Perry could defend his opposition to a border fence by arguing, say, that fence-building would involve infringing on the rights of landowners along the border; instead he simply asserts that it's unrealistic without explaining why.

A worse problem, perhaps, is that Perry seems to have a stamina deficit; he tends to score points early in the debate and then become lethargic to the point of incoherence later. It was kind of astounding to see him go after Mitt Romney's record of flip-flops -- which should be a pretty easy line of attack -- and stammer and fumble so much that it the punch completely failed to connect. Romney, who has had more practice at this than anyone else, seemed practically Reaganesque by comparison (and objectively speaking, Romney is far from Reaganesque).

Debates aren't everything, but they are something. As Jim says, relatively few voters are paying close attention this early, so it's not as if tonight's debate is going to be decisive. But in a few months the debates are going to start to matter more. If Perry doesn't get better at this soon, it could be fatal to his candidacy.

View all comments (45) | Leave a comment

Sean| 9.23.11 @ 12:45AM

Perry is very poor thinking on his feet. It has also come out now that he wasn't lobbied by a 31 year old cervical cancer patient. He met her after the mandate not before.

burt| 9.23.11 @ 1:08AM

Sean is peddlng the latest LIE from the ROMNEY/ Bachman astroturf team.
Nice try Romneybot Sean but your peddling Romney astroturf from NRO the official Romney lie central / DC elite headquarters !
Go ask Mittens why he COULD NOT SAY OBAMA IS a SOCIALIST TONIGHT !!!!!
Yes is ROMNEY = MCCAIN Part Two

Sean| 9.23.11 @ 9:50AM

Perry and Romney are both at the bottom of my list of who I would support. Perry = Bush II "compassionate conservative". Meaning amnesty for illegals and huge government programs and increased spending.

Augustine25| 9.23.11 @ 1:09AM

I think you're right about Perry's weakness. I think what he was trying to say in his social security answer is that some states offer substitutes for social security. My father got his retirement benefits, as a state worker, through the state and not through social security. This was in answer to Romney's suggestion that it would be unfeasible for the states to offer social security. Nevertheless, Perry fumbled the ball.

Jack in Wi.| 9.23.11 @ 1:10AM

When Perry announced I predicted that he would be gone by Thanksgiving. I later lowered that to Haloween after the first couple debates. I now lower it further to Columbus Day. Perry belongs back at the countryclub belting down cold one with his lobbyist buddies. The next big loser was Romney. Niether one of these guys can defend their records. Well what can you say? Their records are a total disgrace for anyone who calls himself a conservaative. They both just squabbled themselves out of ever getting elected Presidnet.

The winner as usual was Ron Paul, even if he got asked the fewest questions. He hit a home run everytime he came to the plate. The more they ignore him the more strength he gains.

Dan| 9.23.11 @ 2:02AM

Ron was doing great up until the pro-life question. As a physician Ron has stated that; "life begins at conception" which is a scientifically and theologically factual statement, that is why I was so disappointed and baffled by his answer tonight. When Megan Kelly asked Ron; "isn't the human life conceived from rape or incest just as innocent" his answer was; "they may be", Really Ron? They "may" be? The answer should have been "YES, they absolutely are!".

Jack in Wi.| 9.23.11 @ 2:43AM

I think Ron Paul is the best guy on the issue that I have ever seen in politics. But the reality is that there is no way that we can get a law passed that won't have a rape exception. Ron Paul would get Roe overturned by the simple constitutiional method of taking away the Federal Courts jurisdiction on the issue. Such a solution could have been done 3 decades ago. It could be done in 2 years if Ron is elected President and we get a prolife Congress. Then the battle would be back in the states where it belongs. I have been in the prolife movement for over 3 decades and have never been more committed to a politician. He is the only chance I see in my lifetime, to get Roe overturned.

beebop| 9.23.11 @ 4:56AM

You are mad, mad, mad. There is either life at conception for all or their isn't. It isn't a parsed thing.

JimH| 9.23.11 @ 9:23AM

A fertilized ovum is certainly alive. Any of your cells are alive. The real question is is it a human? Or as somehow a human in potentia is it entitled to rights of a human? I'm not taking a side. I'm just trying to ask the real question.

Margie| 9.23.11 @ 5:08PM

The question is, is it human?
Well, if you look in the mirror......

Eisenhower| 9.23.11 @ 9:40AM

Doesn't matter, a Presient Romney or Perry with a Republican Congress will never outlaw abortion or overturn Roe without this sort of exception. Heck, I have doubts that they would do it even with this exception. A politician who wants to get elected isn't gonna allow himself to get caught in the trap of "forcing a rape victim into carrying and delivering a child that was forced upon them." And you know thats true.

Sean| 9.23.11 @ 9:54AM

Ron Paul proposed to take abortion out of the Supreme Courts authorization to review. This would have allowed states to outlaw abortion right now. Guess what? With a Republican Congress and President the leadership would not push this. You know why? Because they aren't as prolife as Ron Paul.

beebop| 9.23.11 @ 4:55AM

Ron Paul can win all he wants to the folks like Jack ... he's never going to make it to the ticket. Never. And thank God.

Clint.| 9.23.11 @ 8:19AM

Tokyo BeeBop,

" Give Up Yankee Dogs,"

"You Can Never Win Paul Marines."

" Jody Is Sleeping With Your Girlfriend "

Jack in Wi.| 9.23.11 @ 8:46AM

Bebop: He is going to be there or the Republicans have no chance of winning. The Washington Post just had a essay the Ron Paul has already won because all the other candidates are trying to sound just like him. Why take a bad immitation when you can get the real thing?

Margie| 9.23.11 @ 1:43PM

Amen.

Margie| 9.23.11 @ 1:43PM

That was to beebop.

Scott| 9.23.11 @ 1:12AM

I noticed that Perry really has a problem when he stumbled and stammered on the science question in the first debate he was in. As Tabin said about this debate, it was the sort of thing he should have known was coming and prepared for, and yet he was caught completely flat-footed. The fact that he gets surprised by things that are incredibly obvious suggests that there's something not quite right about Perry.

dixie| 9.23.11 @ 1:30AM

The writer says these debates aren't terribly important because people aren't paying that much attention, but enough people do pay attention to start a decline for Perry that it's hard to get over later. And more Republicans watched this one because Fox put it on and those are the folks who will vote for these candidates. Also, people were really wondering if Perry could pull it together this time, and he couldn't. I think he's toast.

Casey Abell| 9.23.11 @ 2:02AM

The no-heart line just killed Perry. Sure, the stumbles and goofs are embarrassing. But the GOP base doesn't enjoy being called heartless by a supposedly Republican candidate.

At least Perry doesn't have to worry any more about getting targeted as the frontrunner.

m| 9.23.11 @ 6:01AM

We got too many candidates are running for President on the Republican Party. If Mitt Romney does get the nominee, the Republican Party will lose the election in 2012. Obama will be up there in the White House for another four more years. Romney is so liberal like the Democrats and does tell so many lies that he is conservative. Romney is not conservative. He should have join the Democrat Party and run against Obama in the primary election. Maybe Sarah Palin can get into the race and might get the nominee on the Republican Party ticket.

martin j smith| 9.23.11 @ 7:54AM

The debate process will show us who can the mettle to get thru a relatively ( compared to what the SOCIALISTS WILL DO ) mild vetting process. As I have posted dealing with the SOCIALISTS is like going from a sparing partner to a kick boxing champion. So in this regard better we know now how potential applicants do than later. ( Remember John McCaine ).

I think and hope thru this debate process we get someone who comes out as a leader against SOCIALISM!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let me say a word to anyone in the REPUBLICAN PARTY ESTABLISHMENT. If you are not OPPOSED TO SOCIALISM then whose side are you really on ?

Mimi| 9.23.11 @ 7:58AM

For Perry, it's not over til it's over! Newt was cooked a while back and now is doing pretty darn GOOD ! This was a good debate...but I think Romney and Perry should be separated one on each end of the stage! This will give the others a chance to show us their stuff aside from an occasional question. If in the end , Romney and Perry are the last two then they can debate each other. It is important to give some good attention to ALL the candidates....We must have a chance to know them better, the choice this year is SO CRITICAL.... LOOK at the last choice this country made....It will go down in history as a GREAT TRAGEDY! Information is what the MEDIA must deliver...DETAILS...we don't need to know the label on their underwear but everything else ...warts and all!!!

Mimi| 9.23.11 @ 8:01AM

THE MEDIA...??? They OWE us BIGTIME...& THEY KNOW IT!!

Paulee| 9.23.11 @ 8:55AM

Romney not Reaganesque....think again...Mitt Romney has more knowledge about turnaround than any other on that stage...Olympics perfect example..He was chosen even by Luntz group to have satisfied his healthcare stance...for HIS State...and even Perry bounced the ball to him...stating healthcare should be states rights..Romney..even by MSNBC won and looked and spoke most Presidential...and they used the word as all other channels as Reaganesque....Hummmm??? Agenda here????

Sean| 9.23.11 @ 9:57AM

Romney was clueless last election cycle about what was happening in the economy. The only one who had it pegged was Ron Paul.

WJ| 9.23.11 @ 9:21AM

Perry couldn't say use the border fence infringing upon personal property owners argument since he was a strong advocate of a much bigger land grab called the Trans Texas corridor. It was going to be a mile wide turnpike across the middle of Texas.

crazy| 9.23.11 @ 9:47AM

Romney's clearly doing a better job of making the sale, but do those who are buying what he's selling know what they're buying?

Ken (Old Texican)| 9.23.11 @ 9:56AM

Here is where Perry stumbles and he needs to spit out his answer based upon the below:
T Volunteer
Just some thoughts from a Texan on immigration. We have a LOT of fine multi-generation citizens of Texas with Hispanic backgrounds. As I have mentioned before, there were several Hispanics that fought INSIDE the Alamo. (to real Texans, that is a passport signed in blood, just like Davy Crocket’s).
A lot of those citizens have nephews and nieces whose parents have NO passports…from anywhere, but who live across the border.
Third, we did no “ethnic cleansing” when we won our independence from Mexico “Tex-Mex” is more than a mix of dishes to us. It is a huge part of our culture. (Well, we did shoot a lot of Comanches.)
Fourth, being a blue eyed Anglo, if I brought MY nephew across to save him from abject poverty…or even having been orphaned, no one would even lift an eyebrow. “Hell, Ken, it’s the Christian thing to do.”
Fifth, I began my “real career” working for a Japanese company. Many of my Japanese co-workers were here on long term “business visas”. Well a poor mixed blood, (Indian/Spanish) laborer doesn’t have the connections or the money to obtain those niceties.
The Japanese were welcomed if they worked for their own company. Gazillions of “undocumented aliens” have THEIR own businesses here. Heh, many of us practice “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell”. Heck, my own lawn service may be one of those, and you know, I have NEVER had an Anglo knock on my door and ask me for my landscaping business.
Right or wrong, Volunteer, that is just the real world down here.
I know that Mr. Perry shares a lot of these thoughts…THAT’S WHY he probably believes the Federal government should enforce the borders…ALL the borders, with a workable guest-worker program. Heh, like Gingrich quipped: “Let Fed-Ex handle it.”
Seriously though, I hope you guys can forgive Mr. Perry for having mixed feelings. Hell, he grew up sharecropping a cotton farm. Some of the guys working right along side him in those cotton fields were probably “undocumented”, and chances are, some of them were childhood and lifetime friends.

Sean| 9.23.11 @ 10:01AM

Oh sure lets nominate someone who supports illegal aliens because he might of worked in a field with them. Guess what I live in Texas and a lot of us are tired of Perry facilitating illegal aliens just like the rest of the nation. This guys is suppose to be conservative yet California was tougher on illegal aliens. Perry also uses the phrases of the left calling conservatives "heartless", mandating big government "for the children."

crazy| 9.23.11 @ 10:34AM

As Ken is trying to point out the problem on the border is not with the hard-working majority on both sides trying to make a better life for their families it's with the violent criminal degenerates who have taken control.

The enemy is the cartels and corrupt officials on both sides. Policy failures in Washington DC and Mexico City are what have destroyed a border that wasn't any different than our border with Canada. Perhaps it's hard to understand if you haven't lived there. If you have lived along both borders as I have you'd understand how frustrating it is see this game of border ping-pong when the problem is not in Texas it's in Washington.

Mexico is a failing state and no amount of arguing about fences, amnesty or subsidized tuition will fix that.

Sean| 9.23.11 @ 11:23AM

The problem is the illegal aliens and politicians like Perry. They refuse to obey the laws of the US because they are for illegal aliens.

UnrepentantCurmudgeon| 9.27.11 @ 12:13AM

Let's make a couple of distinctions. I grew up in California during the "bracero" years; illegal immigration was not much of a problem because people could come here, work, and return. That's a guest-worker program, and is common in Europe. Yes, we should have one as well.

There are also arguments to be made on behalf of children of illegal immigrants who are here because their parents brought them here illegally. But now it gets dicey; not because I don't have a heart, but because we are starting to straddle the cusp.

I am for a rational immigration policy. I am for having immigration laws that we enforce. I believe that someone who is here illegally has broken our laws and should be deported. I can see the logic to certain amnesty-type proposals, but not in the absence of a serious approach to immigration overall, which begins with the recognition that we must have laws that we enforce. Until we take immigration enforcement seriously, all the rest is just bilge.

Grzmlyk| 9.23.11 @ 10:21AM

Stick a fork in Perry - he's done.

As he should be.

All hat, no cattle.

Margie| 9.23.11 @ 1:44PM

Yep.

Hook| 9.23.11 @ 10:26AM

I am starting to think Romney has the nomination easily. Perry has been very disappointing. I think Romney damn well better pick someone the Christian right likes as VP. Rarely will the V.P. slot be more important.

Sarah Palin would be a real jolt? Bachmann? Jim DeMint? Plenty of others.

Grzmlyk| 9.23.11 @ 10:40AM

I think y0u are right, Hook. It's Romney's to lose.

Too bad he's a RINO. I believe he'll win, too.

And I'm sure he'll kick the can down the road as gracefully, elegantly and inoffensively as is humanly possible. Why, we won't even feel the country slipping away as Romney goes along to get along with such ease that he won't even muss his hair.

Of course, the music will probably stop during the next administration (i.e., the dollar will collapse).

Which means that, in whatever America exists during the next presidential election cycle, those glorious independents, who blow from left to right and back again with the regularity of a metronome, will usher in a Democrat (i.e., totalitarian dictator) in 2016 to finish off whatever pockets of sanity and productivity remain.

On the bright side, Bill Ayers has a new career in front of him.

Too bad Concentration Camp Gray makes my butt look big.

LiveFreeOrDie| 9.23.11 @ 11:05AM

I'm hoping one of the other candidates takes Perry's place and gives Romney a run. Grz what do you think about Huntsman?

Grzmlyk| 9.23.11 @ 12:10PM

I really don't have a great sense of Hunsman, frankly. I think he's probably a decent man, and I know he racked up a pretty good record in Utah. But I just have a nagging feeling that he's a RINO who is closer to the establishment GOP than to the Tea Parties. But he does say some of the right things.

I don't actually hold his views on Afghanistan against him. I think that's a black hole. As much as I like Santorum, I'm just not sure there's an end to the Afghanistan conflict.

LiveFreeOrDie| 9.23.11 @ 4:59PM

"I really don't have a great sense of Hunsman, frankly."

Same here but after the debate I'm impressed with him. Not only did he respond to questions with straight answers he seemed genuine and believable. I get the sense he believed what he was saying and not masticating scripted lines.

At this point the policies between the candidates are ROUGHLY equal especially compared to the current enemy-in-chief and I support honesty, integrity and experience in that order. He seemed to fit the bill.

Hook| 9.23.11 @ 11:43AM

GRZ, I have a feeling Romney understands economics totally and as president he wont have to be the Rino he was as gov of Mass. I think he will do alright and Repubs are likely to gain seats.

Things are just going to get worse and worse under this incompetent administration...and as said before some DEMOCRATS are urging him not to run.

Grzmlyk| 9.23.11 @ 12:24PM

Well, I think Romney is a very competent, impressive person. I agree, his grasp of economics is sound.

But I think he accepts the nanny state as it is; he's not an agent of change, he's a manager. He's not a devout conservative, but a pragmatist who'll spend a lot of political capital "reaching across the aisle." We see how well that served George Bush.

But I don't think this country (present company excluded) wants a true conservative. I disagree with all of the pundits who say this is a center-right country. If that were true, I don't think our culture would be the sewer it is. I don't think an Obama would have risen to the top in a truly center-right country. I don't think one-fifth of the population would be on food stamps in a center-right country. I think we are a classic example of an aging social-democrat dominated country; at this point, we're as far left as the EU.

As such, I don't believe we'll see a conservative visionary a la Reagan as the nominee ever again - the precious "independents" will forever preclude that, and the Tea Partiers, America's last hope, have already been marginalized by the popular culture such that they are now pretty much the butt of jokes when they're not objects of scorn and derision. They represent the last vestige of sanity in this country.

Personally, although he may not be a conservative philospher-king, I really like Herman Cain. I think he's got a ton of common sense and has the amiable demeanor that is palatable to people - he could deliver bitter medicine with a smile (and any GOP president elected in 2012 would have to deliver a LOT of bitter medicine or else simply bury his head in the sand). But he's been decreed to be a second-tier candidate, and that's that.

So it'll probably be Romney, and I'll vote for Romney.