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The Spectacle Blog
Now I didn’t like it when Chris Wallace asked Michele Bachmann if she was flake last June because he unfairly singled her out.
But I am having second thoughts.
Bachmann certainly raised legitimate questions in Monday night’s GOP debate about the wisdom of Texas Governor Rick Perry mandating the HPV vaccine and of the possibility of cronyism. But when she publicly stated that the Gardasil vaccination causes mental retardation following the debate she drew the wrong kind of attention to herself. At the very least, it should give pause to those who will choose the GOP’s standard bearer next year.
After all, President Obama has not been equal to the task and is wearing out his welcome. But if voters are going to replace Obama next year we are going to want to replace him with a person who will mind the store, accept responsibility for his or her actions and speak to the issues affecting Americans in a reasonable and measured manner.
If Republicans choose to nominate Bachmann and she persists in asserting that vaccines cause mental retardation or makes other statements not grounded in fact, it will cast doubt on her ability to carry out the enormous responsibilities vested in our nation’s highest office. Voters might not be thrilled with President Obama’s job performance but a lot of those voters aren’t going to hand the keys to the White House to someone who comports herself in a manner which could be described as, well, flaky.
View all comments (81) | Leave a comment
More Blog Posts by Aaron Goldstein
http://spectator.org/blog/2011/09/14/maybe-bachmann-is-a-flake-afte
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martin j smith| 9.14.11 @ 11:29AM
Aaron you are the real flake. I do not punce on one or two points or one or two debates. Why don't you take a pill. take a vacation or take a whatever and let these candidates compete and who knows maybe others will enter the race. But, here is the deal: One of these very imperfect people will be our nominee right ? So Aaraon who will you vote for ? Obama ? Be my guest.
Aaron Goldstein| 9.14.11 @ 11:46AM
I am under no illusions that whoever the GOP nominates will be "perfect." But this doesn't mean that we shouldn't take their shortcomings into consideration. We want to put forward the best possible candidated. Neither Michele Bachmann nor any of the other the GOP hopefuls are above criticism.
With that said, if you honestly think I will cast a ballot for President Obama then you haven't read my articles and blog posts very closely.
Sean| 9.14.11 @ 11:37AM
She stated a woman told her it caused mental retardation in her child. In fact in a very few cases a vaccine can cause retardation through brain damage or even death.
If someone came up to her and said peanuts killed her child. Would you still think Bachmann was a flake? Yet peanuts are safe for the vast majority of people, but can be deadly for a few.
Aaron Goldstein| 9.14.11 @ 11:58AM
There is difference between a genetic or congenital condition like retardation and brain damage. Retardation cannot be caused by a vaccine. It either develops in the mother's womb or in infancy. Hence the term developmental disability. Brain damage is caused by external trauma.
Now it's not clear what exactly what the girl's condition is. But if the girl has been incapacitated due to a vaccine, it is certainly not mental retardation.
Sean| 9.14.11 @ 12:19PM
Mental retardation is generally accepted as having a IQ score below 70.
Aaron Goldstein| 9.14.11 @ 1:04PM
True. But it still doesn't change the fact that mental retardation isn't caused by vaccines.
Trinacria| 9.14.11 @ 2:05PM
You're still on this rant, Sean? Have you not learned your lesson?
Point 1: There is not a single credible report of mental retardation as an adverse event in patients receiving Gardisil.
Point 2: In your post yesterday, you attempted to claim that Gardisil has caused blood clots and, not having had the requisite medical training to know better, "reasoned" that this could lead to a lack of oxygen to the brain and, by extension, mental retardation (more on that in a moment). The important thing here is that the source you cited for your claim was the CDC, which explicitly states that there is (A) NO KNOWN CAUSAL RELATIONSHIP between Gardasil and blood clots and (B) in those rare cases in which blood clots occurred at some unspecified time after exposure to Gardasil, patients also had other well-known risk factors for blood clots, including the use of oral contraceptives, smoking, and obesity.
Point 3: Even if one could establish a causal link between Gardasil and blood clots (which, I hasten to re-emphasize, one cannot), it is quite literally irrelevant to the question of mental retardation. Mental retardation is a congenital disorder, NOT the result of a traumatic brain injury. If an individual had a blood clot that caused a lack of oxygen in the brain, the patient would experience neuromotor deficits and the formal diagnosis would be a stroke. Any deficits that proceed therefrom are related to trauma, not a congenital defect.
Point 4: With respect to your peanut analogy, surely you don't expect us to take you seriously, do you? If someone came up to Ms. Bachmann and claimed that an alien impregnated her child, do you think Ms. Bachmann would be exercising prudential judgment by implicitly endorsing this claim in a national forum? The point here is that Ms. Bachmann accepted as fact without a shred of credible supporting evidence and without the slightest knowledge regarding the relevant biological mechanisms a serious accusation regarding the medical status of a child and willingly used it to exploit a political vulnerability of her opponent. That, my friend, is highly irresponsible and such a frank lack of judgment ill befits a candidate for the most powerful position in the world.
W| 9.14.11 @ 2:30PM
Well said, T.
Curious, isnt Trinicaria an ancient name for Sicily?
Trinacria| 9.14.11 @ 2:46PM
I could tell you, but I'd have to kill you (does that answer your question?)...
Clint | 9.14.11 @ 3:06PM
With Your Breath, Breath Of Ass Boy.
Trinacria| 9.14.11 @ 3:40PM
Golly damn, Clint, why yere a clever feller, ain't ye. Well I reckon you spent a good spell workin' on that high falutin' RE-tort. I git it - I got ass breath - that means I musta had my face in some unflatterin places. Why, I swannee, you a comic genius, boy, shooooot, I tell you what.
Hey honey, come on in here for a minute, we got us a reel clever feller on the electronic note pad, said somethin' about ass breath - you ever heard such a thing?
Hey, hey - Clint - say it again, my old lady wants to hear ya say it. Wait for this, honey, yere gonna love it - Go on, Mr. Clint, say it again...
W| 9.14.11 @ 7:32PM
Si, ma perche?
Trinacria| 9.15.11 @ 1:34PM
W
Perche, c'e una cosa che si chiama omerta. Non si puo parlare di certe cose. E pericoloso...
A presto.
W| 9.15.11 @ 3:41PM
T,
L'onore de la famiglia sta posto.
Trinacria| 9.15.11 @ 6:05PM
Ho capito. Grazie.
Sean| 9.14.11 @ 3:03PM
Mentally retarded is being below 70 IQ. It doesn't matter how it happened.
There are thousands of credible reports of people being harmed by vaccines. There has yet been a credible report of alien visitors.
Trinacria| 9.14.11 @ 4:05PM
Now Goddam it, Sean, I don't come down to the 7-11 and tell you how to pour Slurpee's; why do you insist in arguing with me about medical science?
Are you really going to respond to a reductio ad absurdum argument by claiming that the argument is absurd? OF COURSE IT IS, SKIPPY; THAT'S THE POINT. There are indeed no credible reports of aliens impregnating women JUST AS THERE IS NOT A SINGLE CREDIBLE REPORT OF A CAUSAL RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN GARDASIL AND MENTAL RETARDATION. NOT ONE!
With respect to your alleged link between blood clots and mental retardation, what part of the explanation above do you not understand? YOU CANNOT ACQUIRE A CONGENITAL DISORDER in adolescence/adulthood. I challenge you to search the medical literature and cite a single such case (www.pubmed.gov). You won't find it (I hasten to note, however, that I'm tempted to submit a case report, as you are making a compelling case for the world's first reported case of Gardasil causing mental retardation in a blogger).
With respect to your assertion that the criterion for a diagnosis of mental retardation is an IQ below 70, perhaps you'd care to enlighten us on how one conducts an IQ test in a newborn.
Damn it, Sean, it's folks like you who read an article in People magazine where Jenny McCarthy claims that a vaccine made her son autistic and begin lobbying for the withdrawal of vaccines on the basis of the expertise of an individual who's chief accomplishment in life was posing for a Playboy centerfold. While I confess to being rather a fan of her earlier work, I'm reticent to rely on her for expert medical advice. And you should be, too.
Please, stop this utter nonsense. You are embarrassing yourself!
Sean| 9.14.11 @ 4:28PM
Many mentally retarded people are not diagnosed as such at birth. Yet they are still mentally retarded.
Now I am sure you are one of those scientific professionals that keep lecturing us on man made global warming.
Trinacria| 9.14.11 @ 5:42PM
"Many mentally retarded people are not diagnosed as such at birth. Yet they are still mentally retarded."
DING DING DING! Correct! But guess what? They were mentally retarded at birth, despite the fact that they weren't diagnosed at that time. Know why? Because mental retardation, BY DEFINITION, is a congenital disorder.
"Now I am sure you are one of those scientific professionals that keep lecturing us on man made global warming."
Wrong again, Spanky! You see, I have no formal training in meteorology, climatology, or any of the relevant sciences and, unlike you, I feel no particular compulsion to make pronouncements on subjects that are not within the proper competence of my professional domain. I generally find that this is a classic recipe for embarrassment. You?
Sean| 9.14.11 @ 6:30PM
Mental retardation is not restricted only to congenital disorders. I can see why you get embarrassed so much.
Trinacria| 9.14.11 @ 6:47PM
I reissue my invitation to cite a single case in the medical literature, Quincy. Just one. You could settle it all with one single solitary citation in the peer-reviewed medical literature...It's not difficult, I even gave you the web link to a free NIH-sponsored literature search engine. I'll even give you a step-by-step tutorial on how to perform the search. One case.
Dixie Pixie| 9.14.11 @ 1:29PM
Just a little background.
Vaccine manufactures were using a mercury-based compound as a preservative without harm for decades.
The Trial Lawyers found about it and filed class-action lawsuits against the vaccine manufactures citing numerous studies linking mental retardation with mercury-based compounds.
The courts agreed when faced with the choice between the profits of an “evil” corporation and a mother with a child born mentally retarded.
No matter how tenuous the link or the duplicitous the evidence the court judges mostly settled the cases with “humanitarian compassion” to which the trial lawyers then took to the bank as multi-million dollar settlements.
As a result, the vaccine manufacturing industry in America was destroyed and the idea that vaccines caused mental retardation was firmly fixed in the public mind especially young mothers.
After all, the Courts had ruled it so.
Occam's Tool or a pediatrician can probably explain the interaction between the Public, Courts, Trial Lawyers and the Vaccine Controversy better than I can.
W| 9.14.11 @ 7:37PM
A presidential candidate should not make charges like this unless there is clear medical evidence, which there isn't.
All the parents I know have had this vaccine for their daughters. It is irresponsible not to get a vaccine that reduces the risk of cervical cancer.
What is worse is to exploit this to boost your poll numbers. I have lost some respect for Bachman.
My daughters kept arguing with me that she is not qualified and I kept defending Bachman. Maybe they are right.
Clint| 9.14.11 @ 11:40AM
Interesting to see who Badmouths Our Tea Party Candidates & over which issues.
Trinacria| 9.14.11 @ 2:12PM
Like, Yah! I mean, don't they know we should all be rallying around our next great leader, the loony retired snatch doctor who wants to legalize our drugs and nuke-up the mullahs?!!!
I mean, really, what losers...whatevurrrrrrr!
Clint | 9.14.11 @ 2:29PM
Like I pointed out, interesting to see who Badmouths Our Tea Party Candidates.
Dr.Ron Paul,
"Our military’s purpose is to defend our country, not to police the
Middle East.
“As the President prepares to send even more support to Egypt, we should
be reminded that it was our foreign aid that helped Mubarak retain power
to repress his people in the first place. Now we have to deal with the
consequences of those decisions, yet we keep repeating the same mistakes.
“I am not the only one who can see the absurdities of our foreign
policy. We give $3 billion to Israel and $12 billion to her enemies.
Most Americans know that makes no sense."
The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.
Trinacria| 9.14.11 @ 2:51PM
Totally, dude! Like, I thought that part about not being the narc in the neighborhood was some tasty prose, bra. The Man is like keepin' the mullahs down, and that totally sucks, bra, cause, you know, they ain't botherin' nobody. Like, that 9/11 thing, man, was totally an inside job. Bush lied, Dude!
Viva la revolucion. Retired Snatch Doctor for Pres, bra!
Clint | 9.14.11 @ 2:56PM
Apparently, Trina here is a Wigger Wannabe.
Trinacria| 9.14.11 @ 3:05PM
Clint, bra, you're harshin my mellow! I'm with you, dude, why you wanna go all Benedict Arnold on me? We got to stick together, bro - the Man wants to deny our Constitutional rights to the sacred weed and the poppy powder and the golden lady (I don't really know what that last one is, but I'm pretty sure we have a Constitutional right to use it if we choose). Stay strong, bro.
RISE UP.
VIVA LA REVOLUCION
PAUL 2012
Clint | 9.14.11 @ 3:08PM
Get Bent, Wigger Boy .
Trinacria| 9.14.11 @ 3:32PM
Dude, say it ain't so! Don't turn your back on a brother, bro - this can't be happening - I must have smoked some skunky weed or something, bro, cause I know you can't be throwin' a fellow revolutionary under the (party) bus!
We've got to stick together and stick it to the Man, bro! The great leader, Dr. Paul, taught us that we must lock arms and march in unity toward the great Utopia. Don't taze me, bro!
By the way, I don't even know what "Get Bent" means, is that like an insult?
VIVA LA PAUL REVOLUCION
FREE THE MULLAHS
OPEN THE BORDERS
PASS THE DOOBIE
PAUL 2012
Lynn Metzger| 9.14.11 @ 11:41AM
Well said @ Martin Smith, I agree, we should let the candidates compete. It is their time to shine or fade!
somnolence| 9.14.11 @ 11:41AM
Goldstein, stop taking Bachmann's statement out of context deliberately. She said she talked to a lady who was convinced the immunization played a roll in her daughter's impaired mental development. Bachmann DID NOT say it caused mental retardation, and we, her supporters, can see through your pathetic attempts to paint her as "loony". The only one who fits that bill legitimately is Paul, but perhaps Perry gives him a run for his money, as well as a certain segment of the medical community, by advocating preteen girls have these immunizations. The saner approach is to ceaselessly advocate personal vigilance against unwanted touches, and refraining from "screwing around." The gardasil issue and softness on illegal immigration tell me that Perry indeed, has glaring weaknesses, and is just another "media popular" top tier candidate(we, the media, will pick your candidate for you). I will vote for the candidate in November 2012, but if it is not Bachmann, Cain, or perhaps Palin, will once again be mechanical, without any enthusiasm. Frankly, the last candidate I was enthusiastic about was Bush in 2000(but in all actuality, I was a Quayle man, and he probably would have been the much better choice).
Aaron Goldstein| 9.14.11 @ 12:11PM
I have not taken Michel Bachmann's statement out of context. To be precise, she said:
"There’s a woman who came up crying to me tonight after the debate. She said her daughter was given that vaccine. She told me her daughter suffered mental retardation as a result of that vaccine."
Mental retardation is something one is born with or emerges very shortly after birth. If Bachmann wanted to draw attention to the harmful side effects of the vaccine then fine. But to assert that a vaccine can cause mental retardation is simply irresponsible on her part. Or do you believe Bachmann to be above criticism?
With that said, I agree that Rick Perry has his shortcomings. I have criticized him and will continue to do so as I see fit.
But as for your assertion that I am attempting to paint Bachmann as "loony." Hardly. She is doing a fine job of that all on her own.
Trinacria| 9.14.11 @ 2:10PM
Amen, Mr. Goldstein!
(By the way, I still respectfully disagree with you on R. Alomar).
Mary Mayes | 9.15.11 @ 10:33AM
Aaron, I have to agree. I heard her say "retardation" and at the time I thought it was wacky, because of course it occurs at birth. And yes, that is irresposible to say, and that pretty much makes her a little flaky in my book. And for all you Bachmann boo-hooers, I have never critcized her before!
tonypal| 9.14.11 @ 11:42AM
I love the Congresswoman and all she stands for, but her performance the other night was disgraceful. What exactly did she think she was accomplishing? It's perfectly acceptable for her to go after Perry for the whole vaccine thing, but enough is enough. He was very clear and forthcoming in his regrets, yet she couldn't let it go. I wonder if the Congresswoman will enjoy watching her words played over and over again by the Obama campaign if and when Perry is the nominee.
Bob K.| 9.14.11 @ 12:31PM
It is becoming clearer where the bloggers on AS are steering it's readers onto who will be the best candidates. One effective way of doing it is to supply talking points for the liberal attack dogs in the media.
Keep watching blogs like this for more evidence.
Aaron Goldstein| 9.14.11 @ 12:59PM
I (nor for that matter anyone else here) is "steering" AS readers towards anything. Our readers disagree with me all the time and that's great. You are free to accept, reject or ignore my thoughts on Michele Bachmann or any other GOP candidate as you see fit.
Clint | 9.14.11 @ 1:59PM
Free Speech & Free Steering & Free Speech About Free Steering Are Allowed In America.
Watch Out For Those Ruling Elite Rocks , Mates
aware| 9.14.11 @ 4:07PM
I agree, Bob. Rather obvious, defense on Perry offense everybody else.
Ryan| 9.14.11 @ 12:56PM
It's icing on the cake regarding Bachman. She has a habit of spewing the worst statistics and talking points that are overinflated or skewed reality. She is doing us a huge disservice. She is better off remaining in Congress, like Ron Paul should have.
Before all ya'll jump on me over this, I'm more or less behind Santorum right now.
Helen Wheeling| 9.14.11 @ 1:06PM
Bachmann has a habit of 'going off the deep end' every once in awhile that proves she is not ready for prime time amd she is not ready to become president of the United States. We already have an incompetent in our Oval office, we sure don't need another one to follow in his footsteps, as we have a huge task ahead of us repairing the damage the resident Liar-In-Chief has already done to OUR country. Enough is enough and We, The People have had ENOUGH of the Big Zero.
Simon Templar| 9.14.11 @ 1:18PM
I am not supporting any of them at this point, so let's get that out first. Any of the candidates, except one and you know who that is, would be more acceptable than what is in there now.
Aaron, does have a point on this one. Now, all candidates are human and make mistakes. The kind of mistake is very important and it is not splitting hairs. One which I find really inforgivable is using liberal smearing talking points against a fellow conservative or Republican. You can challenge your primary opponent and their record without using liberal distortions and smears or their tactics.
The other, less damaging but worthy of notice, is listening to a audience member that tells you something in private and you do not check its validity before repeating it as a fact and using it to damage another candidate. She jumped the shark on this one.
Is it the end of the world for her? Probably not. Hopefully, these people can take a breath, admit a mistake, and do their best to not make these kind of mistakes again.
Clint | 9.14.11 @ 2:03PM
The Ruling Elite & Their Flunkie Stooges Are Scared of The Tea Party & Our Tea Party Candidate Michele Bachmann.
The Tea Party Rebellion Is Here.
Simon Templar| 9.14.11 @ 2:12PM
Clint, now that you are out on bail for drunk driving and being a public nuisance, should you not be attending AA right now instead of blogging here?
Check out Clint's arrest...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....r_embedded
Clint | 9.14.11 @ 2:44PM
Simon dines at his Homeboy Four Star Restaurant:
Simon, " Sommelier, bring me your best Thunderbird, "
http://www.grimmemennesker.dk/.....c-head.jpg
Trinacria| 9.14.11 @ 4:19PM
Golly damn, you funny, boy! C'mon, fess up - you done gone and got yourself some kinda high falutin' professional writer to help you with them there clever posts, didn't ya?
You mind if I uze this 'un on the boys down at the Fish and Tackle?
TrueBlue| 9.14.11 @ 1:41PM
The Repubs seriously need to stop bashing each other and stick to bashing Obama and his policies, and pointing out what they have done in the past and will do in the future. There is no reason to give ammo to the Dems for the 2012 election, they'll dig up enough dirt and false information as it is.
talkradio55| 9.14.11 @ 1:50PM
This is in no way, the end of Michele Bachmann, even though some people want it to be. So many on our side want this to be a "two-man race", they want us to write off Bachmann, along with Cain, Gingrich, and Santorum. Bachmann is in no way finished, and this incident makes me wonder if Perry supporters are just as thin-skinned as Ron Paul people. Everyone wants to dump on her for even taking on the issue, but Perry overstepped his bounds on it and even he admits it. Plus, she also took him on over illegal immigration. If she starts blazing a comeback, I can imagine a lot of people on our side start foaming at the mouth.
tonypal| 9.14.11 @ 2:06PM
I for one am not a Perry supporter. But I do not like the idea of ripping people to shreds during the nomination process. As I stated earlier, Bachmann's original point was fine. She just wouldn't stop and in the process she provides much ammo to Obama and team for next year. It has nothing to do with Perry supporters having thin skin, especially since I'm not a Perry supporter. Quite frankly, I don't know who I support. I just don't want our nominee utterly destroyed before the general election.
talkradio55| 9.14.11 @ 2:21PM
There are some diehard Perry people who are really outraged about this criticism, even before it became "a bridge too far". There are more people jumping down Bachmann for criticizing Perry than are criticizing Perry for the notoriously bad idea he came up with.
The point is that some people have made up their mind and want everyone else to go away so they can get their way, just as they did with McCain.
Trinacria| 9.14.11 @ 2:22PM
Talkradio55,
Quick, bro, look up! That thing buzzing by over head is the point. Get back to us when you catch up with it...
OLDRAY| 9.14.11 @ 2:09PM
Bachman's statement was pretty dumb. BUT ,she is not two faced like the former governor of Mas has himself proven. She is not a croney capitalism phony (tossing away the public's money to his supporters in return for donations could make him a "crook" in the view of many). I much prefer Palin/Rubio . Bachman is open and honest. I'd trust her far more than the two leading contenders.Perry must be a leader when it comes to dumb statements . Romney is a champ at two faced "positions".
Trinacria| 9.14.11 @ 2:28PM
"Bachman is open and honest. I'd trust her far more than the two leading contenders."
Really? If you can't trust her to exercise good judgment, can you really say you trust her?
By the way, open and honest are over-rated. Give me someone who will croak terrorists and keep his hands out of my pockets, and I'll rely on my priest for open and honest (maybe).
somnolence| 9.14.11 @ 2:36PM
The statement WAS taken out of context. You implied that Bachmann said that. No, the lady who came up to her did. Bachmann only RELAYED the message to the audience Monday night. Bachmann DID NOT say that it flat out causes retardation. So, yeah, in my opinion, your statement is flat out taken out of context.
somnolence| 9.14.11 @ 2:38PM
BTW no matter how much firepower Obama's minion throw at her on this issue if she is the nominee, they ain't dealing with a whimpering Patsy Schroeder here or even Liz Dole.
Paul McGrath| 9.14.11 @ 2:40PM
As I said in an earlier post, the Republican candidate for president is going to have to endure vitriol and smear tactics from the left at a rate never seen. As much as I like Bachmann's conservative credentials, she is much too thin-skinned to withstand this. If she lets it get to her, and she will, it will make it that much worse.
The other thing which concerns me is her husband, who, apparently--someone correct me if I'm wrong--is involved in some effort to change homosexuals into heterosexuals.
You can argue whether this is legitimate or not, but you can be sure that the left is going to have a field day with this. Bachmann will be asked about this--hounded about this--every day of her campaign. And I will guarantee you that sooner or later a shoot-from-the-hip response of hers will provoke three days of outrage and make front-page headlines in every newspaper in the country.
She is not up to this. I'm sorry.
somnolence| 9.14.11 @ 2:42PM
Santorum won't be the nominee because too many "conservatives" are afraid of blunt honesty and a taking no prisoners approach style campaign. I would vote for him ENTHUSIASTICALLY if he was the nominee, something Rick Perry can't expect from me. Like I say, with him, my action would only be a mechanical impulse to the alternative.
Trinacria| 9.14.11 @ 2:53PM
Santorum won't be the nominee because he lost his own state by 18 points in his last election. End of story.
Steve A| 9.14.11 @ 2:54PM
There are 3 possible candidates out there who do not make me "nervous" when they speak on the GOP side. By nervous, I mean, they cause me to cross my fingers that they do not utter something so utterly stupid & thoughtless as to shatter any chance as being percieved as up to the task. They are : Paul Ryan, Christie & Gingrich. Ryan & Christie are not running & Gingrich will not get the nomination. Perry is the best shot, although he is not yet ready for Prime Time. I hope he learns fast, plays it straight & tells it like it is. He also needs to hit back as hard as he will be hit. I think this is his strong suit. He looks like he likes to mix it up & not play the punching bag like Bush..
Mary Mayes | 9.15.11 @ 10:45AM
You are so right about the three that you don't have to hold your breath when they speak. After eight years of GWB, it would be such a relief to have a candidate you could feel sure of. Maybe Perry will get there; he's a little rusty.
somnolence| 9.14.11 @ 2:58PM
That is the most pitiful excuse of not supporting Santorum I have ever heard. And eventually the people of Pennsylvania, after learning the hard way, woke up and voted for Pat Toomey. But they showed an asinine side by rejecting Santorum earlier.
Trinacria| 9.14.11 @ 3:25PM
OK, Socrates. Support him; it's your God-given right to be wrong.
In the meantime, let me explain how it works: Money=exposure. No money, no exposure. No exposure, no nomination. No nomination, no election.
Let's have a look at cash-on hand, based on the June 30 campaign financial reports:
Romney: $12,800,000
Perry: Not reported (hadn't entered race)
Paul: $4,500,000
Huntsman: $4,100,000
Bachmann: $3,400,000
Santorum: $229,115
Are you kidding me? $229,115? Hell, I have more cash on hand than the Santorum campaign, and you're trying to convince me I should support him as a viable candidate?
So, you see, it's not that we won't nominate him because we're afraid of blunt honesty; it's because were afraid of certain defeat!
somnolence| 9.14.11 @ 3:01PM
Steve, if you listen to Paul McGrath, by Perry hitting back hard would be the death knell of his campaign. That is the only conclusion I can come to since he warns that Bachmann doing that would backfire. Hahaahhahaha!
Steve A| 9.14.11 @ 3:52PM
I agree to an extent, in that, Obama is still liked personally. It would backfire if Perry attacked him other than on the merits of his failed policies. On Obama's failed policies & on the merits of liberalism, no holds barred. You need to verbally crush these with no mercy. Do it with a smile, like Reagan. Let Obama come across as the thug.
Paul McGrath| 9.14.11 @ 4:17PM
You misunderstood me, Somnolence. I agree that it is important to hit back hard, and I agree that Ms. Bachmann is capable of hitting hard. My concern is that when she misses, she ends up sprawled on the canvas, and that she sometimes aims at the wrong target.
Butch| 9.14.11 @ 3:21PM
National Review has about four pieces on this subject today by their regular contributors, each with a pretty substantial comments thread. Y'all might want to check them out, too.
somnolence| 9.14.11 @ 3:48PM
It has to be blunt honesty and candidness with ME, or I just may RESERVE my RIGHT NOT TO VOTE!!! As far as money, the last candidate I gave any money to was Phil Gramm in 1996. He had 10 million dollars by the time of the Iowa caucus, lost it, and hung his head low and withdrew. BTW my contribution was 35 bucks. But since then, you can bet your life I haven't given anybody one penny. My support and my vote had damned well be better viewed as a precious commodity. Right now, neither Perry, Romney, Gingrich, Huntsman, Paul or Trump will get that vote. The only ones I MIGHT give up to 200 dollars at the most are Bachmann, Cain, Santorum, or Palin if she runs. I appreciate Socrates's contribution to the concept of dialogue, however, I prefer either Pericles or Thucydides , perhaps Herodotus or Hesiod as my ideal of the most sage-like Greeks.
Trinacria| 9.14.11 @ 4:13PM
Really? Pericles? I had you pegged as a Dr. Seuss kind of person.
Well, I'm pleased to hear that you're being fiscally prudent with your $35 donation this time around - with high-stakes like that, one can't just be throwing money around willy-nilly.
Personally, I think you should forward your threat to withhold your vote to all the candidates; if that doesn't get 'em in line, well, I can't figure what will.
somnolence| 9.14.11 @ 4:17PM
I wouldn't waste my time in forwarding the threat either by email or God forbid, postage stamp! I told you about the Phil Gramm example. As Lennon-McCartney said "Money can't buy me love!"
Trinacria| 9.14.11 @ 4:23PM
"As Lennon-McCartney said "Money can't buy me love!"
No, Somnolence, I suppose it can't. But it can buy you hookers and beer...
Steve A| 9.14.11 @ 4:25PM
Hey somno, Sounds like you really know how to pick a winner. Remind me not to follow you to the window at The Kentucky Derby.
somnolence| 9.14.11 @ 4:27PM
I agree on the beer. Hookers deserve no courtesty or remuneration of any kind.
Trinacria| 9.14.11 @ 5:43PM
You don't know Sally like I know Sally...
somnolence| 9.14.11 @ 4:31PM
And there are all kinds of hookers, i.e. prostitutes, who sell their souls for a quick fix. Such as those who follow the media championed candidates. BTW Dr. Seuss (T. Geisel) wasn't that feeble-minded while he was laughing his way to the bank.
Trinacria| 9.14.11 @ 5:45PM
Me imitating you missing the point...
Wayne| 9.14.11 @ 4:32PM
The point is that the parent has to make the choice, not the state. Different people have different opinions. Science can not prove that a certain vaccine does not cause brain damage. That is not how science works. Science could however prove if it does, but that is not easy to prove. So we are left with different opinions.
What we don't want is a governor or president making that decision for us. It opens the door to junk science and cronyism.
Solo| 9.14.11 @ 8:45PM
Bachmann's grasp on ANY facts is tenuous, at best. Her concern for them but an after-thought.
She's a mindless cheer-leader. She is obviously so "programmed" by her handlers that she'll regurgitate anything...at any time...regardless of its relevance or veracity.
At first, I tried to tell myself that her incoherent responses to the impromptu Chris Mathews interview on election night was a fluke; bad connection, too much noise in the background, etc.
But now....I'm coming to realize that (God help us) Mathews was right. She's like a friggin robot!
She's gets a talking point programmed in..and that's all you're going to get regardless of the question.
She's an idiot! And a particularly vicious self-serving one at that.
No thanks! We have enough of those in politics already.
Hey Michelle! You're making yourself into a :
"NO--TERM--PRESIDENT"
Dim Wit~!
Erling| 9.15.11 @ 8:27AM
My affection for Rep. Bachmann continues to dwindle. Her malarkey about retardation was the latest misstep proving she's not ready for the major league. I thought she had the making of a Margaret Thatcher, but alas, she should read the writing on the wall and focus on her duties to the people of Minnesota's 6th district.
somnolence| 9.15.11 @ 11:04AM
My affection for Rick Perry continues to dwindle. The gardasil issue is not going away, and will be used against him by Obama's minions. I have no patience with those who say it is a minor issue compared to the economy, jobs, future involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan, Obamacare, etc. No issues are minor, especially when it is between parental responsibility and the state(and I know all about the opt out in Texas). It is the principle of the thing, and those who rush to say there couldn't possibly be any tie to retardation are too quick and reactionary in this instance to make that judgement. Perry is glaringly soft on illegal immigration, and Bachmann rightfully pointed that out the other night. He has overextended himself on the Social Security "ponzi scheme" argument, and it will be an effective campaign issue against him. So Bachmann remains my pick over Perry by a mile. I'm sure I could vote for her, and there is no guarantee I'll even bother with Perry, even if the alternative is Obama.