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Norwegian Terrorist Not a Jihadi

By on 7.22.11 @ 9:58PM

The shooter caught on Utøya — who is also said to have been seen near the bombing in Oslo and, incredibly, may have pulled off both attacks by himself — is Anders Behring Breivik. He is not an Islamic extremist as many of us suspected; on the contrary, he seems to dislike Muslims and identify as some species of nationalist, according to Norwegian media (e.g. this article, roughly translated by Google). On what appears to be his Facebook page, he calls himself a conservative but cites philosophy books that range from classical liberalism to Progressive Era pragmatism, suggesting an ideology that may be somewhat hard to pin down — often the case with lunatics. I’m sure we’ll learn more.

Was it wrong of us — and by “us” I mean a large swath of the media, not just me and my cobloggers — to spend the day discussing the context of Islamist terror cases in Norway, and taking seriously what turned out to be fallacious claims of credit by jihadis? Well, that’s a complicated question that I’ll get to another time (it’s Friday night, and Captain America: The First Avenger awaits), but readers are welcome to hash it out in the comments.

View all comments (40) |

Calvin| 7.22.11 @ 10:02PM

Lunatics of all shapes and sizes.

Occam's Tool| 7.22.11 @ 10:20PM

Well, it's easy to screw up, all rapes in Norway in 2010, for example were committed by Muslims. Don't worry, there will be another attack soon, by a Muslim extremist.

Larry Lichtenberg| 7.23.11 @ 8:19PM

When Occam ?

What do you know ?

Hook| 7.22.11 @ 10:26PM

Well with perfect insight I imagine we might have said Norway was anti-Israeli enough to protect itself...but who has perfect anything.

Bob Grant| 7.22.11 @ 11:07PM

We'll, expect outrage and righteous indignation in the Islamic World for people jumping to the wrong conclusion.

To demonstrate their outrage at being falsely accused of the bombing, they will blow up four embassies, truck bomb several cafes, and behead a dozen innocent people....you know...as a sign of protest.

John Navratil| 7.23.11 @ 10:09AM

Bob Grant,

It's sad that isn't hyperbole.

POST American| 7.22.11 @ 11:29PM

"We are using MASSIVE third world
immigration to DESTROY British culture
once and for all ---FOREVER."
-TONY BLAIR
Fmr PM/ Globalist/ Demographic and Cultural
EUGENIST/ ---future EU President?
(Daily Mail interview)

"----And NOW this latest 'on cue' terror event
in Norway. This is all strategy that's obviously
all worked out. ---Obviously."
-ALAN WATT
(yesterday's devastating online coverage)

AS the ATF is caught, red handed, massively
equipping Mexican drug gangs, and indeed,
gangs right here.

ALL while Globalist collapsed
Mexico is facing death tolls surpassing
ther Viet Nam War while being hugely funded and incited to 'ReConquista' by the ever sinister, ultra
rich, culture subverting TAX FREE Rockefeller/Ford foundations.

"--This is their style, their trademark.
Bring in 'terror' and 'chaos' as things are being
collapsed, then overturn the Constitution
or whatever civil liberties exist, bring in
a STASI style police grid --as monopoly
international banks rape and plunder, and
take over everything."
-ALEX JONES

-----And now ----NORWAY?

'NO NO' -----NOR ---WAY.

Remember kiddies, the capstone creeps LOVE
wordplay.

They REALLY do.

Remember that as you 'Google' yourself into
RED Chinese managed FEMA 'retirement'.

------UH--HUH-----

kingfish| 7.22.11 @ 11:38PM

You sure that is a legit FB page? look again.

Dr. Ron Polland | 7.23.11 @ 12:16AM

No, it was not wrong since 99% of all terrorist attacks like this are committed by Muslims. spare me the stat on how 99% of Muslims are not terrorists, but even 1% of 1 billion amount to 100,000 radical jihadis who are in operation all over the world.

Scott Lahti| 7.23.11 @ 12:51AM

Looks like the blame-the-Muslims crowd got this one wrong (shocking!).

See, e.g., OKC 1995.

The proverbial tendencies to always fight the last war whenever a new kind crops up, to extrapolate, to assume that past performance is a guarantee of future results, to discount randomness and chaos and indeterminacy, come to mind.

In Confessions of an Original Sinner, John Lukacs says that when the Antichrist appears among us, he won't do so in the proverbially outward-giveaway guise of a dark Satanic beast or Mansonite nutter, but in that of outwardly impeccable white-bread wholesomeness and respectable Main Street faux-rectitude.

Bob K.| 7.23.11 @ 9:48AM

Scott Lahti,

Lukacs was not without hope.

......"To appear as a hopeless pessimist, a prophet of ever closer darkness, accords neither with my temperament nor with my historical understanding. I know that the signs of a new barbarism are all around us, but I not only will not but cannot --honestly--predict that this will inevitably overwhelm us. I remind myself of what Burke once said: "He that accuses all mankind of corruption ought to remember that he is sure to convict only one." Like Toqueville, I do not know why God chose to have mankind enter the democratic age; but whatever brummagem sources and corruptions of democratic or even populist intentions, their results are, more than often, unforeseeable and not equivocal. Deep within Toqueville's mind resided this latent question: do men's institutions change their characters or is it, rather, the other way around?"

From "DEMOCRACY AND POPULISM Fear and Hatred pp242-243 by John Lukacs. Published 2005

John Navratil| 7.23.11 @ 10:04AM

Scott Lahti,

Do you dismiss terrorism as random, chaotic and indeterminate?

Oops! Another suicide bomber blew up! This time while he brushing his teeth! I sure hope my office mate doesn't blow up today, I've got a deadline.

Scott Lahti| 7.23.11 @ 1:12PM

Q. Do you dismiss terrorism as random, chaotic and indeterminate?

A. I dismiss nothing until it has finished that which I have assigned it. But whereof one cannot speak in the way of dispositive evidence of the actual source of a specific attack, one must bloody well STFU until said evidence reveals itself. Any given coin-flip is still a 50-50 prop, no matter the heads-tails ratios preceding. A number of the usual suspects on the Alka-Seltzer-chewing Islamophobe right (Jennifer Rubin, please pick up the red[-state] courtesy phone ), in leaping to Koranical probabilities before any returns of guilt were in, failed miserably. God only knows what the hairy-knuckled hosts and heathen of cable and talk had to say in this sorry and endemic line. radio James Fallows:

"This is a sobering reminder for those who think it's too tedious to reserve judgment about horrifying events rather than instantly turning them into talking points for pre-conceived views."

John Navratil| 7.23.11 @ 2:04PM

Scott Lahti,

Please explain "The proverbial tendencies to always fight the last war whenever a new kind crops up, to extrapolate, to assume that past performance is a guarantee of future results, to discount randomness and chaos and indeterminacy, come to mind." Evidently, I don't understand it properly.

I believe the crowd DID get this one wrong and say so elsewhere. However, human behaviour is NOT generally random or chaotic. Whatever this guys motives, it wasn't a random sequence of events which led to this result. When the Muslims consider it a privilege to become a martyr for Allah and act accordingly, it is not irrational for one to assume that behaviour that matches the pattern has the same cause. Acting on that assumption as if it were fact is another matter.

I'll second your last paragraph. But there is nothing preconceived in observing that the Muslims have a penchant for setting off bombs in public places with the express desire of killing civilians. Disagree?

Scott Lahti| 7.23.11 @ 3:38PM

Q. Please explain "The proverbial tendencies to always fight the last war whenever a new kind crops up, to extrapolate, to assume that past performance is a guarantee of future results, to discount randomness and chaos and indeterminacy, come to mind." Evidently, I don't understand it properly.

A. Simply put, wait patiently for the requisite evidence to reveal itself, and follow its leads, before pronouncing judgment. It's not that hard.

Q. I believe the crowd DID get this one wrong and say so elsewhere.

A. I cannot speak of the crowd, but only of a few pundits who failed the test. To the extent you passed as stated, salute.

Q. However, human behaviour is NOT generally random or chaotic. Whatever this guys motives, it wasn't a random sequence of events which led to this result.

A. Again, I am only speaking on behalf of pre-evidentiary agnosticism, cognitive humility, and empiricist patience before the gradual unfolding of facts before which we were once, as in this case, in the complete dark.

Q. When the Muslims consider it a privilege to become a martyr for Allah and act accordingly,

A. "The Muslims" do nothing of the sort. Those Muslims who do not so think and do not so act number over a billion. Those who do, to the actionable point, number at around one hundred-thousandth that magnitude, however amplified they are in worldwide impact. Verbal and mathematical and conceptual precision are our friends.

Q. it is not irrational for one to assume that behaviour that matches the pattern has the same cause.

A. Since the pattern you sketch (see below for completion) is that of one or more Muslims blowing himself up for Allah, then you've answered your own question: there was no match yesterday whatever.

Q. Acting on that assumption as if it were fact is another matter.

A. Indeed.

Q. I'll second your last paragraph. But there is nothing preconceived in observing that the Muslims

A. I warned you already about addressing "the Muslims" in such imprecise terms. I am reminded of Fat Tony Salerno ("the Tip O'Neill of the underworld") who told reporter Jimmy Breslin he dressed like a bum. Salerno handed Breslin his tailor's card: "Tell him you want a suit made right away so you don't make me ashamed I know you."

Q. have a penchant for setting off bombs in public places with the express desire of killing civilians. Disagree?

A. Yes. Read the above more slowly this time, and see my tailor.

John Navratil| 7.23.11 @ 4:21PM

Scott Lahti,

"Again, I am only speaking on behalf of pre-evidentiary agnosticism, cognitive humility, and empiricist patience before the gradual unfolding of facts before which we were once, as in this case, in the complete dark."

Let me as a simple question. Is there a bad part of town you stay away from? If so, why? I'll keep my own tailor.

Scott Lahti| 7.23.11 @ 4:52PM

Thanks for proving my point. I stay away from the bad part of town precisely because I have an entire phone book of police-blotter reports of actual crimes committed within specific identified precincts, backed by actual arrests made and charges pressed and convictions sustained, along with the names and addresses and birth records of the guilty.

Yesterday at the opening of business, neither the government district of Oslo nor the camp-hosting island were bad parts of their respective towns, and no one had the slightest reason to stay away. If you are attempting to persuade us to stay away from those your inner demons persuade you to call "the Muslims" on grounds that, demographically speaking, they represent a bad neighborhood, then I shall as I depart this thread wish you a good life and no success whatever in the electoral sphere.

John Navratil| 7.23.11 @ 5:03PM

Scott Lahti,

Pure sophistry! You deny the undeniable history of Muslim extremism and claim this event cannot be judged until the evidence is in, but use the same sort of historical evidence to stay out of the bad part of town and claim you have a factual basis for doing so.

I'm have no inner demons persuading se to call "the Muslims" anything at all. I merely observe who is doing the bombing. Something you seem hell bent on denying.

Adios, bombast!

Scott Lahti| 7.24.11 @ 1:12PM

Q. "I'm have no inner demons persuading se to call 'the Muslims' anything at all. I merely observe who is doing the bombing. Something you seem hell bent on denying."

A. Oh, *do* keep up, Nutcakes, sweetie! Mother and I did warn you about that, just seconds, if I recall, after we put your farina-flecked Clean Your Plate Club bib in the wash.

The worst possible thing you could do to the right honorable gentleman from the rotten borough of Lower Wingnuttia - outside of reading him, that is - is to quote him directly:

"the Muslims consider it a privilege to become a martyr for Allah and act accordingly...the Muslims have a penchant for setting off bombs in public places with the express desire of killing civilians."

Gene Callahan| 7.26.11 @ 9:32AM

Hate makes us blind, John. For instance, we stay away from the bad parts of town because we might get mugged in them. I.e., we play the odds because there are practical consequences.

What bad consequences might have occurred had Tabin and others not swiftly blamed Muslims before the evidence was in? Hmm... A lost opportunity to stir up hatred of Muslims?

axbucxdu| 7.24.11 @ 10:10PM

As I equally despise everyone of these foreign competitors for Yanqui attention be they in no particular order Muslim, British, Israeli, Japanese, Korean or whatever, I do quibble with this:

"A. "The Muslims" do nothing of the sort. Those Muslims who do not so think and do not so act number over a billion. Those who do, to the actionable point, number at around one hundred-thousandth that magnitude, however amplified they are in worldwide impact. Verbal and mathematical and conceptual precision are our friends."

Probability is a deception, the argument put forth quite carefully minimizes expected value. C.f., 09/11. A tinier fraction of the aforesaid set of nutcases caused quite a mathematical stir. For real effect, that fraction must be multiplied by that impact. No precision is gained in the attempt to separate these actionable individuals from the tragedies they cause. Try not to whistle too loudly past that literal graveyard.

Tina B| 7.23.11 @ 8:38AM

I guess it was a bit like the MSM claiming the shooter in Arizona would turn out to be a Christian or a right winger. They, too, were wrong on both counts. So were "we". So what?

We kvetched after the Arizona media error, let them kvetch about ours. No harm, no foul, either way.

Next time there is a terrorist attack, we'll see if it's a Muslim Extremist or a lone nut-job. And there will be a next time, for both, unfortunately.

Gene Callahan| 7.26.11 @ 9:34AM

"No harm, no foul, either way."

Tina probably considers stirring up hatred of Muslims a positive good rather than a harm.

Kingofthenet| 7.23.11 @ 11:25AM

A picture is emerging, gleaned from official sources and social media, of a right-wing Christian fundamentalist who may have had an issue with Norway's multi-cultural society.

Typical 'Tea Party' type.

Dai Alanye | 7.23.11 @ 11:45AM

Possibly recruited, encouraged or supplied by Muslim terrorists.

In the late Roman Empire so many Slavs were captured in war that the word "Slav" morphed into "slave." In the future it is possible that the word "Muslim" will become interchangeable with "terrorist," but only, of course, if the followers of Mahomet fail to reform.

John Navratil| 7.23.11 @ 11:56AM

Kingofthenit,

Yea! Like Herman Cain! You go guy!

Wayne | 7.23.11 @ 12:18PM

He is innocent till proven guilty. If it works for Casey Anthony, it works for terrorists.

John Navratil| 7.23.11 @ 12:32PM

Wayne,

Sure does! And it the state can't prove this case, it's a pretty sorry state, too!

Wayne | 7.23.11 @ 8:11PM

I am sure some juror can find some reasonable doubt somewhere. One thing for sure. There was NO security, those kids were sitting ducks.

Cpm| 7.23.11 @ 1:39PM

Unfortunately for muslims, given their rhetoric and history they have to wear it until it is shown not to be them, as it is here. Sorry, but the presumption of innocence only applies in a court of law.
I will bet this maniac knows nothing about American politics, so just can the Tea Party talk.

Wayne | 7.23.11 @ 8:13PM

So Casey is guilty, but it is only the law that sees her as innocent?

Cpm| 7.23.11 @ 10:18PM

WTF does Casey Anthony have to do with anything?

MSpector| 7.23.11 @ 9:24PM

As to the general question, it is always a mistake to theorize ahead of the facts. So yes, assuming this particular terrorist to be Islamic was a mistake, partly because (at least so far) the evidence is that he is in fact not, and partly because the inference was made without any particular factual basis.

That said, yes, in today's climate if one is to make an assumption about a particular terrorist attack it is mot likely that the attack will be Islamic in origin. But there is really no reason to make that assumption absent facts.

Georgie Bush| 7.24.11 @ 4:59AM

You people believe in what your media says WAY too much... just because the news and government report a supposed attack by a Muslim extremist.. does NOT mean it's necessarily the case.. and this goes for any event.. the media, the government are able to manipulate and lie.. governments have been known to blatantly lie to push its own cause.. my own government (USA).. did that very same thing in order to invade Iraq.. and for what? to gain better access to oil.. honestly, u all need to educate yourself A LOT MORE on the history of Islam as well as the history of Christianity and of Europe for that matter.. Christians have been known to invade and kill and force others to convert in the name of Christianity as well.. dont forget the conquistadors.. dont forget the fucking Goddamn crusades.. u people are ridiculous.. i love how u forget everything bad ur own people have done and crucify an entire group of people as terrorists... Europeans are some of the biggest terrorists the world has seen.. they're the biggest war mongering animals in the history of the world.. colonizing the entire world? forcing your ugly culture on others? starting wars upon wars? massive killings.. and killing off people.. killing off native cultures and people? How are YOU not terrorists urselves? Why shouldn't i judge ur history as one of terrorism? Should I only look at the bad things Europeans have done.. u need to get out of ur fucking Eurocentric racist bubble.. and see the rest of the world.. Americans arent even as fucking racist as u fucking people.. Thank God for the USA.. peace loving Europeans? yeah right, my ass.. more like racist ignorant biased IDIOTS

trina| 7.25.11 @ 8:28AM

Applaud you for the statement. I really and truly do think people forget where "they" truly come from and why "we" are here (in USA). Despite all the corruption, siege, lies, and faults in it's building blocks of the past (USA history) I am truly grateful to be an American. People ESPECIALLY love to use politics and religion for a reason to act out in violence (nowadays it seems like the only two reasons you should be acting out...wrong and you should just go off yourself). To you Europeans (not referring to the Euro-American counterparts necessarily) I implore you, to remember your past... Remember all the events in history that your people have bestowed upon other continents and nations that solely dealt with expanding your viewpoints in politics and religion. God Bless US ALL for we will need HIS Ultimate Mercy. Because ain't no body innocent in this shit at all...

Kevin Dunn| 7.24.11 @ 12:36PM

It suits the program of the Islamicist terrorist intrnational to have at least one non-Islamic atrocity which they can point to to discredit "Islamaphobia." Don't write off a covert Islamic operation here without a lot more digging.

Gene Callahan| 7.26.11 @ 9:37AM

No facts can disturb Kevin's belief that Muslims MUST be to blame!

Gerry Shuller| 7.24.11 @ 3:11PM

You're a whiny little bitch, Tobin.
You lied about the Delta - Saudi Arabia matter, and you got pwned again by the truth.

trina| 7.25.11 @ 8:09AM

I don't understand his ideology at all. If he's anti-Muslim why was he taking out predominately Christians and Catholics? Such a tragedy either way...

Gene Callahan| 7.26.11 @ 9:38AM

"If he's anti-Muslim why was he taking out predominately Christians and Catholics?"

They were pro-immigrant Labour party members.

More Blog Posts by John Tabin

http://spectator.org/blog/2011/07/22/norwegian-terrorist-not-a-jiha

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