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The Spectacle Blog
Buried in his blithering, blathering, self-congratulatory, hectoring speech on the Middle East today, Barack Hussein Obama dropped this diplomatic nuclear bomb:
So while the core issues of the conflict must be negotiated, the basis of those negotiations is clear: a viable Palestine, and a secure Israel. The United States believes that negotiations should result in two states, with permanent Palestinian borders with Israel, Jordan, and Egypt, and permanent Israeli borders with Palestine. The borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps, so that secure and recognized borders are established for both states. The Palestinian people must have the right to govern themselves, and reach their potential, in a sovereign and contiguous state.
COME AGAIN?!?!?!?!? WHAT?!?!?!?!?!
In other words, Obama is now ready to advocate the next step of his plan to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth.
This is absolutely outrageous. There is no way that Israel can be secure, geographically, with the 1967 borders. He knows that. Israel knows that. The world knows that. He may as well have just declared a proxy war against Israel, and he clearly is trying to destabilize Netanyahu’s government. Instead, as usual, Obama may have overreached. My prediction is that Israel will rally behind Netanyahu in denouncing this suggestion in no uncertain terms.
As well they should.
What’s next from Obama? Asking Taiwan to cede half of the island of Formosa to the Communist Chinese? Unilaterally ceding not just the prison camp but also the Naval base at Guantanamo to Castro?
Obama is a menace.
View all comments (210) | Leave a comment
More Blog Posts by Quin Hillyer
http://spectator.org/blog/2011/05/19/obama-to-israel-drop-dead
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ShinjitsuBakudan | 5.19.11 @ 1:49PM
Yeah, there's no way Israel can be secure if it cedes any of the land it took! It needs it in addition to the billions of dollars in military aid and the blind eye to all bad policies!
Occam's Tool| 5.19.11 @ 4:04PM
Well, it's good to see the continuation of the long history of Japanese antisemitism, Shinjitsu. Let's see, how's that working out for you? Right. Lowest birthrate in the developed world, over 120,000 100 year old people expected soon, and the creationof robotic grandkids to replace the kids you cannot get.
But there is no Lord of Hosts, sayeth Dawkins. I beg to differ. Check the birthrates and average ages of Japan, Italy, Russia, and Germany---the WWII Axis plus the Axis wannabe. He exists, and he kicketh ass.
Southern| 5.19.11 @ 4:36PM
Kicketh ass is right, and I will always firmly place myself on His side.
Mimi| 5.19.11 @ 1:55PM
We must rally around Israel now, like never before. Netanyahu must be made to understand that this Obama " PROCLAMATION" is not legitimate....Where is the consensus in AMERICA for this? Wow oh wow....He will deserve all the " FLACK" he gets!!!
Margie| 5.19.11 @ 1:56PM
Obama is the true definition of a hater.
I'm not at all surprised as I know he not only hates America and the American way of life (freedom), but he of course also does not wish to see one of the only (only?) countries in the middle east who experiences the same kind of freedom.. to be free.
Communist hate individual freedom. Socialists hate individual freedom.
Liberalism=Socialism=Communism=Satanism.
The Bible (God's own Words) tells us that the entire world will turn against Israel. There are signs He has told us about in order to be able to reckognize that the time of His return is near. That's one of them.
But Christians who read the Bible know this.
Obama is of his father the Devil~ a liar from the beginning.
Bring it on, you're just a part of His plan~ but He will prevail.
I'm sure the Paul-bots will be pleased as well.
God's will be done.
God bless Israel.
Mike| 5.19.11 @ 2:24PM
Margie,
In order for your meds to work, you have to take them. Is the day nurse on your ward watching TV?
Margie| 5.19.11 @ 2:32PM
"For thus says the Lord GOD: Because you have clapped your hands and stamped your feet and rejoiced with all the malice within you against the land of Israel, therefore, behold, I have stretched out My Hand against you, and will hand you over as spoil to the nations; and I will cut you off from the peoples and will make you perish out of the countries; I will destroy you. Then you will know that I am the LORD." Ezek. 25:6 & 7.
Mike| 5.19.11 @ 3:28PM
All set for Saturday, Marge?
Margie| 5.19.11 @ 3:42PM
All set fro His return, Mikey?
Mike| 5.19.11 @ 4:12PM
In case he doesn't make it this weekend, Marge, I read that there is going to be an awesome concert in Fayetteville, N.C.
Margie| 5.19.11 @ 4:23PM
Oh I see what you are doing~ trying to ascribe to me the Harold Camping phony baloney~ that Jesus is returning in a couple of days!
Very cute, but major fail, dude.
Nope, the Bible says no one knows the day or the hour, but He does give us an outline to go by.
Ever read Matthew 24?
If you choose to ridicule Christians and the fact that God exists and He is returning soon, that is your choice.
I pity you.
Mike| 5.19.11 @ 4:39PM
Perhaps, Marge, he is returning all the time in the lives of people who are changed as opposed to "returning soon." A theological point worth thinking about, but it will require you to take a look at biblical literalism.
Thanks for your pity. St. Augustine once prayed, "Make me better (actually, he said chaste), Lord, but not yet." I've always liked that dude.
NoBama| 5.19.11 @ 4:47PM
Why don't you get a job? Your posts are boring and pointless.
Mike| 5.19.11 @ 5:06PM
Thank you, NoBama.
Yours are ill informed and stupid. Common ground?
NoBama| 5.19.11 @ 5:23PM
No, because I've got a job; unlike you, loser.
Now why don't you run along and look for one?
You won't be missed.
Margie| 5.19.11 @ 5:06PM
Of course, your words have no basis in Scripture. Yet your haughtiness presumes you know what you're talking about.
Your Religion enjoys making things up outside of God's own words.
Good luck with that.
JimH| 5.19.11 @ 2:05PM
You know I am no fan of the One, but give a brother a break. Am I the only one who read the part about mutually agreed swaps? That said contiguity between Gaza and the West Bank presents a bit of a challenge.
Occam's Tool| 5.19.11 @ 4:00PM
Yes. Mutually agreed swaps with an entity that has stated that it will abide by no agreements; just like the Egyptians are planning to scuttle Camp David.
Ammo Guy| 5.19.11 @ 2:08PM
What the heck does he mean by contiguous? How can this be accomplished without splitting Israel in two? Furthermore, does he mean the 1967 borders in Jerusalem as well? Last time the Wailing Wall was in Jordanian hands, they wouldn't grant access to worshippers from Israel as I recall. Good luck with all that you brilliant folks in Foggy Bottom.
2Anglico| 5.19.11 @ 3:07PM
Agreed. The fools like David below should read the book "Among Lions". They might gain some perspective...but then again probably not, they know it all already.
Roy| 5.19.11 @ 2:09PM
Note "with agreed upon swaps".
David| 5.19.11 @ 2:12PM
Well.. finally Obama is making the right move to wipe Israel.. they don't deserve any place on this earth..
Cruel people.. with no humanity.. no mercy.. stealing a foreign country which they have destroyed every kid in it for some religious reasons..
simon templar| 5.19.11 @ 2:33PM
Heil Hitler!
Occam's Tool| 5.19.11 @ 2:53PM
David,
how the hell did you get your name. Incidentally, Palestinian population is growing by leaps and bounds. The average age in the Gaza strip is under 16 years of age.
Eric| 5.19.11 @ 3:31PM
Occam,
The average age in the Gaza Strip is under 16 years because many of the older Palestinians are being killed in the conflict. As are many Israeli's. At least Obama is making an attempt to resolve the conflict and end the bloodshed, instead of blinding supporting Israel like previous administrations. That said, he should not blindly support Palestine either. He needs to help find a solution that works for both sides.
Occam's Tool| 5.19.11 @ 3:52PM
The population is growing and the birthrate per woman is over 4. Give me a break on the "genocide" crap in Gaza, Eric.
Eric | 5.19.11 @ 4:06PM
Just because there is a high birth rate does not mean that people aren't being killed. And I never said anything about genocide. I said people are being killed on both sides. And both sides deserve peace.
Southern| 5.19.11 @ 4:33PM
There will be no peace if Israel cannot defend itself.
Southern| 5.19.11 @ 3:56PM
Obama's "solution" doesn't work for both sides; it's at the expense of Israel's security.
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 9:49PM
No, the average is under 16 because of the birth rate. The death rate due to armed force incursions is minimal in the overall demographic profile.
Mimi| 5.19.11 @ 3:02PM
David, are you on the level ???....a set up, you can't be serious!!
tj| 5.19.11 @ 3:03PM
You are a sick puppy...... and 2012 will get rid of the trash
Kingofthenet| 5.19.11 @ 2:33PM
Yeah if Israel can't keep civilian Condo blocks overlooking the Palestinians how can they be secure? It's like a 'People's DMZ'
Occam's Tool| 5.19.11 @ 2:51PM
King of the net---a query. With the 1967 borders, how narrow is Israel at its narrowest point?
a) under 10 miles
b) over 10 but under under 20 miles
c) over 20 but under 30 miles
d) wider.
I will give the answer in the next few hours. What many people fail to realize is that Israel has Zombies at its throat.
SoCon| 5.19.11 @ 3:04PM
The answer is A.-- 8 miles. 8 miles!
Israel will not be able to defend itself if Obama's demands are met. Which is precisely the goal, I'm sure.
Glenn Beck called this correctly a long time ago.
Obama has allied himself with the left and Islam.
Kingofthenet| 5.19.11 @ 3:37PM
How narrow will Palestine be?
Southern| 5.19.11 @ 3:45PM
What's that got to do with it?
Kingofthenet| 5.19.11 @ 3:39PM
What does that have to do with CIVILIANS living there?, so you are saying it's about security than NO ONE should live there, make it a DMZ to 'protect' Israel. Otherwise it will be seen for what it is a LAND GRAB!
Occam's Tool| 5.19.11 @ 3:54PM
15 KM is what I read. 9 miles. Indefensible EXCEPT by offensive action. Palestine includes Jordan. Hundreds of Miles wide, I believe. The Israelis are NOT talking about pushing the Palestinians into the sea, but the opposite is true.
Jordan attacked Israel in the 1967 war, not the other way around.
Kingofthenet| 5.19.11 @ 4:05PM
What do you mean by indefensible? that they can invade so what? Why wouldn't Israel be able to 'than remove them? What does this have to do with the Palestinians, take some of Jordan than, no complaints from me.
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 9:50PM
It means that they must act proactively. It means that the IDF will be on a hairtrigger. If you have no clue as to military realities, don't comment on Israeli security issues.
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 10:07PM
Your ignorance of military matters is total, King. You also are a National Socialist.
SoCon| 5.19.11 @ 4:11PM
Dore Gold was on Fox this morning and he said Israeli territory would be reduced from 45 to 8 miles wide. He said Israel's borders would be indefensible.
Israel could also lose the city of Jerusalem, which is horrendous. It was difficult for Christians and Jews to visit the holy sites at that time.
Kingofthenet| 5.19.11 @ 4:13PM
Israel would NOT become that small, we are just basically talking about the West bank which they have NO rights to.
Southern| 5.19.11 @ 4:32PM
Provide proof or shut up, incoherent moron.
Kingofthenet| 5.19.11 @ 4:53PM
Aren't you DROWNED YET?
NoBama| 5.19.11 @ 4:56PM
Why don't you crawl back under your rock, troll?
2Anglico| 5.20.11 @ 10:55AM
The "West Bank" per the UN is "Disputed Territory". The "West Bank" according to the Bible, is Judea and Sumaria, thus, the "West Bank" IS Israel.
BTW, the Bible pre-dates the UN by 2000 years and Mohammad by 700.
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 9:50PM
It means that they must act proactively. It means that the IDF will be on a hairtrigger. If you have no clue as to military realities, don't comment on Israeli security issues.
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 9:51PM
Yes they would. Review your Geography, King. Your ignorance and stupidity are astonishing.
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 10:07PM
Yes, without the West bank Israel WOULD become that narrow.
Uli Kunkel| 5.19.11 @ 2:39PM
How can a guy with no foreign policy experience talk with such authority? Where did Obonehead get this expertise, from the likes of Louis Farrakhan, the good Reverend Wright, or "remove those interlopers" Sharpton??? It's amazing what profound, world class job qualifications community organizing bestows upon its practitioners!!!
I'm sorry, but Obonehead is not qualified to run an ant farm!!!
No RINO Romney| 5.19.11 @ 2:53PM
Looks like Obama's listening to Cass Sunstein's wife, the leftist militaristic Samantha Powers. She's the Israel hating witch who has called for the invasion of Israel to create a palestinian state.
We'd better push back hard.
Uli Kunkel| 5.19.11 @ 3:03PM
It's amazing how such a good ally is treated with such casual disregard of its boarders, those boarders that are the only thing standing between Israel and bug-eyed extremist, throat slitting, baby killing heathens!!!
Headline: Apparently Obama has struck a nerve with Israel -- really???
Lev| 5.19.11 @ 8:28PM
Who is the good ally? Israel has spied on the US and embarrassed the vice-president on his visit - is this the thanks we're supposed to accept for $3Billion worth of aid each year, that in addition to Israeli moves to sell our technology to our adversaries?
Please explain this one to me.
NoBama| 5.19.11 @ 9:39PM
Sure, as soon as you explain to me why Obama panders to those who killed 3000 innocent Americans on 9/11.
Margie| 5.19.11 @ 2:47PM
"On that day I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all the peoples; all who lift it shall grievously hurt themselves. And all the nations of the earth will come together against it.
On that day, says the LORD, I will strike every horse with panic, and its rider with madness. But upon the house of Judah I will open my eyes, when I strike every horse of the peoples with blindness." Zech. 12:3 & 4.
In the face of God's Word these people who hate Israel will continue to mock, right in the face of their own bitter destruction.
JimH| 5.19.11 @ 3:10PM
Looks like Margies trying to immanentize the eschaton again.
Margie| 5.19.11 @ 3:18PM
So are you saying God's Words are null & void?
Eric| 5.19.11 @ 3:41PM
No, he's saying that you're trying to make the end of the world seem imminent. Quoting the ancient words written, not by God, but by Christians seeking to make their beliefs known in the face of persecution, is not particularly relevant in this day and age. If God truly loves all peoples, as I believe he does, than he would want the bloodshed between Israel and Palestine to cease just as much as we all should. Both peoples deserve to be free and secure, and right now, neither Israel nor Palestine is. Obama does not hate Israel, he is simply trying to find a solution. Is his idea correct? Maybe not. But at least he is trying.
Margie| 5.19.11 @ 3:45PM
If you don't like the truth, it is not my problem.
Apparently you do not think you should take seriously the fact that the Bible is being fulfilled and in deed Jesus is returning soon.
The words that I quote are not mine, but God's.
And Obama is a liar, and does not wish for the peace of Israel.
He is a terrorist sympathizer.
Eric| 5.19.11 @ 4:10PM
The words you quote are from the Bible, which was written by Christians, mostly several hundred years after the death of Christ. And what proof do you have that Obama does not wish for peace between Israel and Palestine? He called for a mutually agreed upon solution (which the author of this blog left conveniently unhighlighted). And a terrorist sympathizer? Give me a break. That's a baseless accusation born out of hatred. You can dislike his policies, that's fine, but stick to facts.
Southern| 5.19.11 @ 3:50PM
Hamas has repeatedly called for the destruction of Israel. Only a fool would believe they want peace and Obama is a friend of Israel.
Eric| 5.19.11 @ 4:03PM
Hamas does not represent all Palestinians. They clearly are not the most peaceful group, but there are plenty of Palestinians who want peace.
SoCon| 5.19.11 @ 4:15PM
Yeah, they're terrorists--clearly not "the most peaceful group." Israel will have no peace with the 1967 borders. This will not stand.
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 9:52PM
"Not the most peaceful group"---they are bloodthirsty maniacs, Eric.
Lev| 5.19.11 @ 8:31PM
and how would Hamas, the terrorist group, accomplish this? They couldn't even keep the lights on in Gaza, and they've got the wherewithall to "take Israel off the map"? A country with an undefeatable conventional military and a nuclear arsenal - square these facts with what "Hamas wants".....
NoBama| 5.19.11 @ 9:40PM
Easy, with Iranian help all things are possible.
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 9:53PM
Put the IDF on a hairtrigger and see what happens. If your area of narrowest landmass is less than 10 miles, you have no depth, no matter how strong your military is.
Occam's Tool| 5.19.11 @ 3:55PM
He is simply trying to make Israel less secure, by forcing it into a bargain with people who wish only to kill, not bargain.
SoCon| 5.19.11 @ 4:13PM
I agree.
Eric| 5.19.11 @ 4:13PM
He's not forcing anything. He is trying to find a solution that both sides agree on. Do I think he will be successful? No. Both sides are still too far apart and blinded by hatred that has had 60 years to increase.
SoCon| 5.19.11 @ 4:16PM
Of course he is. Obama knows that American presidents have a great deal of power and influence in this matter.
TennesseeVolunteer| 5.19.11 @ 2:49PM
Quin, see you in the FEMA camp!
Erik Osbun| 5.19.11 @ 3:38PM
Israel: Do not pay any attention to this ursurper; he does not represent us. He works for George Soros.
Americans: Next thing you know he will try to put back the borders to what they were in 1798.
Kingofthenet| 5.19.11 @ 3:47PM
Israel was HAPPY with the 1967 boarders in 1967, they were WELL aware of the pieces that the Palestinians were too get, IF Israel wants to take land for buffers,take it from the countries that attacked her, the Palestinians had no army and did NOT attack Israel.
Southern| 5.19.11 @ 3:52PM
What proof do you have for your inane statement that Israel was "happy" with the 1967 borders? Link please.
Kingofthenet| 5.19.11 @ 3:58PM
I could care less if it was happy, I am sure you are right and she would prefer the Whole World as the state of Israel, but beggars can't be choosers. Basic fairness still stands, IF Israel wants to PUNISH the people who attacked her by grabbing some of their land fine, but the Palestinians aren't the ones to steal from.
SoCon| 5.19.11 @ 4:19PM
Why make the statement if you don't mean it? It's not fair if Israel can't defend itself.
Occam's Tool| 5.19.11 @ 3:57PM
No she wasn't, but she took the additional land after Jordan ATTACKED. It wasn't under Palestinian Control, the West Bank in 1967, it was under King Hussein's control. Your ignorance is astounding.
Kingofthenet| 5.19.11 @ 4:00PM
Do you have the Balls to tell me Israel was 'unaware' of who was to get Palestine? Seriously?
Southern| 5.19.11 @ 4:30PM
More factless BS.
Osamas Pajamas| 5.19.11 @ 3:51PM
Whe they meet tomorrow, Bibi should head-butt OhBummer and then kick the crxp out of him while he bleeds on the floor.
Kingofthenet| 5.19.11 @ 4:01PM
Id prefer to see Delta Six do an Osama on Bibi.
SoCon| 5.19.11 @ 4:20PM
I'm sure you would, so would Obama. He'd do it if he thought he could get away with it.
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 9:54PM
Bibi WAS a Commando, King. You might want to check out his brother, the most famous Commando in Israeli history.
Lev| 5.19.11 @ 8:32PM
Are you a U.S. citizen?
NoBama| 5.19.11 @ 9:41PM
Are you a suicide bomber?
shavan| 5.19.11 @ 3:52PM
Can someone please explain to me how this proposal differs from what Clinton and Bush have already proposed, ie returning to 1967 borders?
Occam's Tool| 5.19.11 @ 3:59PM
Sure. One problem: the proposal wasn't made after Hamas took control of the PA. Clinton made the generous offer to Arafat, who refused. Then came further attacks. Now we have Hamas in charge, that wants extermination. Sorry, there is NO partner for peace on the Palestinian side. Assuming there is one is delusional.
Jonny| 5.19.11 @ 3:56PM
As usual, the slobbering impotent moron wingnuts totally mis interpret what was said. Who needs to think when you have the giant right wing noise machine to do it for you.
I really pity the ten-watt brains powering your fat asses.
Southern| 5.19.11 @ 4:22PM
Here come the LeftWing nuts, freaks and haters. Don't talk about fat asses--Moochelle Obama will be offended.
glenny| 5.19.11 @ 3:56PM
If the Mooslims put down their weapons, there will peace.
If Israel puts down their weapons, there will be genocide.
glenny
Southern| 5.19.11 @ 4:43PM
True. The godless Left is responsible for the slaughter of many, many millions of innocents in the 20th century.
Guess they figure it's 2011 and it's time to align with the Mooslims and slaughter millions more.
Stoopid Rightees| 5.19.11 @ 4:04PM
Sorry to interrupt your search for the Kenyan birth certificate, but Bush basically proposed the same thing. Man you guys are just stupid!
Oh... and you might want to read his speech first:
"While the core issues of the conflict must be negotiated, the basis of those negotiations is clear: a viable Palestine, and a secure Israel. The United States believes that negotiations should result in two states, with permanent Palestinian borders with Israel, Jordan, and Egypt, and permanent Israeli borders with Palestine. The borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps, so that secure and recognized borders are established for both states."
You Klansman hate Jews anyway. So what is the big deal?!
Southern| 5.19.11 @ 4:26PM
Democrats created the KKK, doofus; demo senator Grand Kleagle Robert Byrd was one of your shining stars. Everyone knows hatred for the Jews comes from the left, and Obama is a leftist.
Stoopid Rightees| 5.19.11 @ 6:56PM
You mean Dixiecrats, you idiot. And they have about as much in common with the liberals from the north and west coast as the GOP does. You may want to take a history course.
The south is still the south... regardless if they are the Confederacy, Dixiecrats, Republicans, or Tea Party. It's the same people regardless what political hat they want to put on.
Southern| 5.19.11 @ 7:23PM
I understand why you want to escape the ugliness and the shame of your democrat party's past, libtard, but you can't because we won't let you.
Fact is, democrats just like you created slavery, Jim Crow laws, lynching and segregation, and made life a living hell for Black Americans.
Thank God for Republicans like Abraham Lincoln during the Civil War and Republican Senators fighting for civil rights legislation who did their part to stop your party's heinous policies toward Black Americans.
urban| 5.19.11 @ 4:09PM
The only thing outrageous here is your interpretation of the speech. Obama reiterates that his position is the same as Bush's (1967 borders with land swaps) and you claim he wants to wipe them off the map? Are you an idiot, or an extreme ideologue? or both?
Southern| 5.19.11 @ 4:29PM
Obama's a lying, untrustworthy putz.
Kingofthenet| 5.19.11 @ 4:16PM
You ONLY can deal with Jews by force, they can't be shamed. They Steal others property than want to negotiate the return of 'some' of it.
Southern| 5.19.11 @ 4:26PM
You're a filthy bigot. You Leftists are the biggest thieves of all.
CountryClassKook| 5.19.11 @ 4:31PM
Ah, fun to see the real anti-Semites come out. The left have always hated the Jews (see the EU). Obama has them hungry now for Jewish blood. They see their chance to Finally Solve the Israel problem.
Know this: when Israel is pushed to the water, the capitols of the Middle East will be turned into self-lighting glass parking lots, and the left will be to blame. Israel's military motto - "Never Again."
Southern| 5.19.11 @ 4:39PM
I stand with Israel.
Lev| 5.19.11 @ 8:34PM
not with your president? You "stand" with a country that spies on your own, to whom billions in aid are paid, and who's politicians take swipes at our president and vice president? Is this who you 'stand' with?
NoBama| 5.19.11 @ 9:42PM
I don't blame Israel for taking swipes at Obama after he threw them under the bus.
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 9:55PM
Dear Lev,
I understand why the Russian Mafia stands with Obama; I have more trouble understanding why an American would.
Kingofthenet| 5.19.11 @ 4:51PM
That Never Again thing ONLY applies to Jews, everyone else can die.
NoBama| 5.19.11 @ 4:57PM
You first, bigot.
CountryClassKook| 5.19.11 @ 5:07PM
I realize this scares you, as one of those who want the annihilation of the Jews, but:
Why shouldn't it apply only to the Jews? The world hates the Jews. Only a generation ago they were on the road to being systematically wiped out. They have a tiny speck of land surrounded by people who's stated goal is the annihilation of the Jewish people. The only way they can defend themselves is Total war.
NoBama| 5.19.11 @ 5:26PM
You can't reason with the criminally insane.
Israel is not alone and together we will prevail.
Kingofthenet| 5.19.11 @ 5:48PM
You can be a 'second class' citizen if YOU want, but Jews only care about fellow Jews, if your not Jewish you are expendable, good friends?
Southern| 5.19.11 @ 6:03PM
No one hates like you godless garbage on the Left. You are suffused with hatred and self-loathing. You pretend to be for the common man, but you really only care about power and control.
It's your hatred that led to the slaughter of many millions of innocents in the 20th century, and now you are trying to reprise your hideous 20th century actions in this century.
You live to hate because you believe you are worthless. In that regard you are quite correct.
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 9:56PM
King,
don't immunize your kid with the polio vaccine. Both types created by the evil joos.
Allen Hanson| 5.19.11 @ 4:22PM
I'll stay out of the theological debate, although I am qualified to participate in it.
It's very true that Israel can't be secure within the 1967 borders: Can you imagine Arab artillery and rockets on the Golan Heights and Mount Scopus in Jerusalem? That's what going back to the '67 borders would give you.
I think Israel was foolish to give Egypt back the Sinai. They should have kept it and dared Sadat and Carter to take it back if they wanted it so bad.
Speaking of the Lesser Carpenter (the Great one being Jesus), is there any doubt in anyone's mind that Obama is the new Jimmeh? Obama's not evil; he's just stupid.
This is what we get when we Republican run fake mavericks for President. John McCain isn't a maverick, he's a shetland pony: Small, cranky and ultimately useless.
Thus endeth the vent!
Southern| 5.19.11 @ 4:28PM
I agree. That's why I don't want to nominate another weenie RINO like Romney.
DRed| 5.19.11 @ 4:23PM
Quinn, setting aside your ridiculous hyperbole, what borders would make Israel feel secure?
Southern| 5.19.11 @ 4:27PM
Well, certainly more than 8 miles don't you think?
DRed| 5.19.11 @ 5:17PM
Sure. I imagine that's why Obama (and Bush) mentioned land swaps as well. It's right there in the blog post-right after the bold bit ends.
NoBama| 5.19.11 @ 5:28PM
Don't bring GWB into this--it's got nothing to do with him. Obama has thrown Israel under the bus.
DRed| 5.19.11 @ 5:38PM
By proposing essentially the same thing that W did. Did he also throw Israel under the bus?
NoBama| 5.19.11 @ 5:46PM
Obama's betrayal of Israel stands alone. In 2004 GWB and the Congress promised Israel that it would NOT have to withdraw to 1967 lines.
There's nothing "essentially the same" here, troll. Next attempt to distract and obfuscate Obama's perfidy coming up.
Lev| 5.19.11 @ 8:38PM
Your suggestion that Obama betrayed Israel - does that mean that Obama or the American people "owes" Israel? What, exactly - do I as an American, owe to Israel? GWB promised there were wmds in Iraq and his chicken-hawk Cheney promised that US forces would be "welcomed asLiberators". Promises Promises......from politicians no less.
NoBama| 5.19.11 @ 9:43PM
Why do you hate Israel? Are you an anti-Semite and/or an anti-American Socialist?
Oldefarte| 5.19.11 @ 4:27PM
Quin, I know that you [or anyone else] can't seriously be surprised at this happening [if so, we all should consider jumping off the DOLLY PARTIN BRIDGE]. I was even dumbfounded prior to his election in November of 2008 that the domestic Jewish community was politically supporting his election to the tune of 80%. That to me if truly a WTF moment in spades! I simply don't GET IT, and if anyone can SPLAIN IT to me, I'd be eternally grateful. OMG, the mans name is Barack Hussein Obama! Everyone should check out Allen West's just published remarks on Newsmax etc concerning same, which defines the issue entirely. As I predicted pre-November of 2008, this was/is a trojuned-horsed candidacy, not only for the USA but as seen by this, for Israel also. Everyone, please begin the process of counceling your friends, neighbors, work associates, church members, family, etc to prepare to drive, fly, or crawl on hands and knees if necessary to the voting polls in November of next year. It's not a question of which Republican candidate we individually prefer, but simply the essentially dire necessity of voting for the Republican nominee selected to run for the presidency next year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ncatty| 5.19.11 @ 4:33PM
Great, Obama is channeling Bush. The blind leading the blind (oops, I may have set Margie off again).
George S| 5.19.11 @ 4:42PM
"So while the core issues of the conflict must be negotiated..."
There are no issues with an 's', it is one core issue and it is the Palestinians want the eradication of the Jewish state, nothing more nothing less. What is to be negotiated? How does one negotiate how much poison to consume?
"[T]he basis of those negotiations is clear: a viable Palestine, and a secure Israel."
What if they are mutually exclusive? Clinton helped Ehud Barak get elected for the express purpose of Israel ceding concessions towards so-called peace. When Arafat was given everything he wanted, he balked -- knowing full well he would have been assassinated for accepting a deal. What has changed?
"The borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines"
Does anyone believe that is what is chafing the Palestinian's shorts... the '67 borders? The Palestinians are claiming the entire land occupied by Israel. Besides, why is that violence eventually continues after Israel makes concessions?
"The Palestinian people must have the right to govern themselves, and reach their potential, in a sovereign and contiguous state."
Anyone can claim sovereignty over any piece of real estate but no one is obligated to respect it. The true landowner is the claimant who can defend his land with violence against others who claim it themselves as a right.
As Obama's pastor once said: "We supported Zionism shamelessly while ignoring the Palestinians and branding anybody who spoke out against it as being anti-Semitic." Any wonder why the president thinks this way?
At least Jimmy Carter tried to hide his inner anti-Semite because he knew it would be inappropriate to display in public.
desotobill| 5.19.11 @ 4:44PM
Obama should be careful he may start a war in the middle east with his irresponsible retoric. If Iran, Syria and Egypt preceive continued weakness and lack of support for Isreal they may bellieve they can attack Isreal and the US will not lend the Isrealie's support. Hmmm under Obama we may not lend them support if attacked.
NoBama| 5.19.11 @ 4:50PM
I'm not so sure Obama doesn't want war. I think he knows exactly what he's doing.
DRed| 5.19.11 @ 5:02PM
The Congress is completely behind Israel, the majority of the american public supports Israel, and you think we'd just sit idly by while Syria and Iran invaded our ally? Give me a break. Not that Israel would need our help to destroy the Syrian and Iranian armies, but they'd absolutely have it if necessary.
What Obama is doing is what every modern American president has tried to do. Find some sort of solution to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. I don't think it's going to work, but all this right wing hysteria is nonsensical. It's basically the same plan Bush had.
NoBama| 5.19.11 @ 5:29PM
No it isn't. Try as you might, you won't be able to pin this betrayal on GWB.
DRed| 5.19.11 @ 5:42PM
I'm not trying to pin anything on W. (well, at least not this thing) A plan for a two state solution corresponding roughly to the 1967 border has been American policy for a lot longer than the Obama administration. So why all the hysteria now? What exactly is the betrayal?
http://www.frumforum.com/obama.....with-abbas
NoBama| 5.19.11 @ 5:50PM
In 2004 GWB and the Congress promised Israel they would never have to withdraw to 1967 lines. Try to keep up please.
Therein lies Obama's betrayal.
DRed| 5.19.11 @ 6:00PM
So you think David Frum and John Tabin are anti-Israeli Obama trolls?
Southern| 5.19.11 @ 6:07PM
Irrelevant. Address my post, troll.
DRed| 5.19.11 @ 6:13PM
Sure. Which one would you like me to address?
Southern| 5.19.11 @ 6:21PM
Oops! That was meant for GetTheNet!
Nobama| 5.19.11 @ 6:37PM
Are you Frum or Tabin?
DRed| 5.19.11 @ 6:55PM
haha. No. But I agree with them on this. I doubt Obama's plan is going to work. As long as HAMAS remains influential with a large swathe of the Palestinians, there's not going to be any peace with Israel. But what his plan isn't is some sort of radical sellout of the Israelis.
NoBama| 5.19.11 @ 7:27PM
Obama's plan is most certainly a radical sellout of Israel. He went back on our 2004 promise to them and threw them under the bus.
It doesn't surprise me at all; Obama panders to everyone in the Middle East--except Israel.
ANTPogo| 5.19.11 @ 9:38PM
So why, then, did Bush Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice promise to the Palestinians exactly the same thing that Obama stated in his speech, at the Annapolis Conference? Which was in late 2007, six months after Hamas' overthrow of Fatah in the PA, you know.
In fact, earlier this year, the Telegraph reported that in 2009, the Palestinians were upset at Obama because he looked like he was actually going to go back on Bush's and Rice's promise of support for “two states along the ’67 border with agreed swaps”.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new.....nians.html
Did Secretary of State Rice go back on our 2004 promise and throw Israel under the bus? Was her plan a radical sellout of Israel?
NoBama| 5.19.11 @ 9:45PM
GWB did not go back on his word like Obama.
ANTPogo| 5.19.11 @ 9:50PM
So, because Bush himself didn't mention the agreement to establish states at the 1967 borders (with some land swaps), the promise to do exactly that which his Secretary of State made at a peace conference she herself hosted (with the full authority to negotiate on behalf of the United States) at the US Naval Academy somehow doesn't count?
DRed| 5.19.11 @ 9:47PM
NoBama either doesn't understand what 'agreed swaps' means or is willfully ignoring it so he (or she) can be more outraged. These people believe Obama hates Israel and favors muslims (or is a muslim). Of course, that's not true. So it requires a little finessing of reality.
NoBama| 5.19.11 @ 9:59PM
I know you're trying to clean up another Obama screwup--but it's too late. With 10% unemployment, $5 a gallon gas and more military interventions, Obama is hardly in the position to betray one of our closest allies.
This boneheaded move is going to hurt him in the polls. The Republicans are already salivating over the sound bites to use against the Bamster. As if we need more.
Obama is an incompetent Leftwing nut. Nov., 2012 can't come soon enough to get rid of this disaster.
ANTPogo| 5.19.11 @ 10:06PM
That's some pretty impressive goalpost-moving.
So, can you answer the question? Did Bush's Secretary of State, Condoleeza Rice, propose a radical sellout of Israel? Did she (and he, as her appointer and ultimate boss) go back on his word from 2004, and throw Israel under the bus?
Was her 2007 promise part of a plan "to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth"?
NoBama| 5.19.11 @ 11:54PM
Hellooooo. Where are you? Care to try anymore liberal BS?
Crickets.....
NoBama| 5.19.11 @ 10:25PM
Your ridiculous claim is based on "Confidential Palestinian documents leaked to Al Jazeera." You're kidding right?
Yes,we must believe these 'secret' documents we've never heard of before because we all know how honest the Palestinians and Al Jazeera are.
Could you be any more of a clown? If you believe this crap I have a bridge I'd like to sell you, moron.
ANTPogo| 5.20.11 @ 9:12AM
Maybe YOU'VE never heard of the Palestine Papers, but that's not my problem. They've been widely reported on worldwide, and the Guardian newspaper in the UK has verified most of them independently.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl.....itors-note
Not even the Israelis doubt that the documents are genuine, with Netanyahu's own Foreign Minister even using them as evidence for why his own plan for a Palestinian state is preferable.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/di.....n-1.338872
In fact, the information contained in the documents is so damaging to the PA and the position it's publicly taken that the only people claiming the documents are fake are...the Palestinians themselves!
The only reason YOU doubt the documents is because it shows that Obama is merely following the same policy established by the Bush Administration vis a vis a two-state solution.
Truthiness in action.
ANTPogo| 5.20.11 @ 10:59AM
Oh,and here's some more comments from two other Israel-haters who wanted Israel to return to the 1967 lines as part of a plan to wipe that country from the face of the Earth.
"We must give up Arab neighborhoods in Jerusalem and return to the core of the territory that is the State of Israel prior to 1967, with minor corrections dictated by the reality created since then." - then-Prime Minister of Israel Ehud Olmert, speaking before the Knesset on the 13th anniversary of Yitzhak Rabin's assassination, in November 2008.
http://www.haaretz.com/print-e.....s-1.257032
"Any final status agreement must be reached between the two parties, and changes to the 1949 Armistice lines must be mutually agreed to. A viable two-state solution must ensure contiguity of the West Bank, and a state of scattered territories will not work. There must also be meaningful linkages between the West Bank and Gaza. This is the position of the United States today, it will be the position of the United States at the time of final status negotiations." - then-President George W. Bush, speaking to the press in the Rose Garden, in May 2005.
http://georgewbush-whitehouse......50526.html
NoBama| 5.20.11 @ 12:52PM
"Mutually agreed to." Obama didn't say that did he?
There's nothing mutual about Obama's stupid declaration. It was an absolute betrayal of Israel.
ANTPogo| 5.20.11 @ 1:34PM
>"Mutually agreed to." Obama didn't say that did he?
Actually, he did. "The borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps."
It's RIGHT THERE in the transcript and video.
http://www.newstatesman.com/bl.....rack-obama
NoBama| 5.20.11 @ 6:53PM
"..mutually agreed swaps." SWAPS, troll.
Obama got his ass handed to him in front of millions of people today. He won't be able to sit for a week after the ass-kicking Bibi gave him.
The Community Organizer in Chief looked even weaker than usual. What a disaster he's been for our country. November, 2012 can't come soon enough.
ANTPogo| 5.20.11 @ 2:19PM
Or, in addition to reading the transcript of the speech, you could read the bit of the speech that the blog entry at the top of this page quoted. Right there, after the boldfaced and italic bit, are the words "mutually agreed swaps".
Sheesh...
NoBama| 5.20.11 @ 12:50PM
Provide a link that shows GWB publicly and proudly throwing Israel under the bus like Obama did yesterday. Until then, please keep your secret secret top secret Palestinian papers leaked to always believable Al Jazerra BS to yourself.
Obama's going to pay a big price at the polls, something he can ill afford with his already lousy poll favorables. Quin's right-Obama is a menace.
He's incompetent, too; he and his idiot administration have destroyed our economy.
If what you said was true there would have been a huge outcry like there was yesterday--and there NEVER was during GWB's tenure. You're just trying to "blame it on Bush" once again. You've proved nothing except you're a disgusting Liberal liar.
ANTPogo| 5.20.11 @ 1:39PM
>Provide a link that shows GWB publicly and >proudly throwing Israel under the bus like Obama >did yesterday.
You mean like I already did above?
http://georgewbush-whitehouse......50526.html
Right there at the official government archive of all of Bush's speeches. He stood out in the Rose Garden, in front of reporters, and said,
"Any final status agreement must be reached between the two parties, and changes to the 1949 Armistice lines must be mutually agreed to. A viable two-state solution must ensure contiguity of the West Bank, and a state of scattered territories will not work. There must also be meaningful linkages between the West Bank and Gaza. This is the position of the United States today, it will be the position of the United States at the time of final status negotiations."
Right there, plain as day, a year after his letter, George W. Bush says that it's the position of the United States that any changes to the 1949 armistice border would have to be agreed on by both Palestinians and Israelis.
I guess facts really DO have a liberal bias.
ANTPogo| 5.20.11 @ 2:32PM
Oh, and look: here's President Bush saying the exact same thing, in January of 2008:
http://georgewbush-whitehouse......110-3.html
"The point of departure for permanent status negotiations to realize this vision seems clear: There should be an end to the occupation that began in 1967. The agreement must establish Palestine as a homeland for the Palestinian people, just as Israel is a homeland for the Jewish people. These negotiations must ensure that Israel has secure, recognized, and defensible borders. And they must ensure that the state of Palestine is viable, contiguous, sovereign, and independent.
It is vital that each side understands that satisfying the other's fundamental objectives is key to a successful agreement. Security for Israel and viability for the Palestinian state are in the mutual interests of both parties.
Achieving an agreement will require painful political concessions by both sides. While territory is an issue for both parties to decide, I believe that any peace agreement between them will require mutually agreed adjustments to the armistice lines of 1949 to reflect current realities and to ensure that the Palestinian state is viable and contiguous. I believe we need to look to the establishment of a Palestinian state and new international mechanisms, including compensation, to resolve the refugee issue. "
Even worse, Bush made those statements throwing Israel under the bus by demanding an end to the 1967 occupation and using the 1949 Armistice lines as a basis for border negotiations RIGHT IN THE CITY OF JERUSALEM!
Truly an un-called-for insult from a man planning the ultimate destruction of Israel!
NoBama| 5.20.11 @ 6:57PM
"...and changes to the 1949 Armistice lines must be MUTUALLY agreed to." Nothing about swaps, moron.
Obama threw Israel under the bus and he will pay a hefty political price for his deceitful actions. Wait and see.
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 9:57PM
It is, DRed, when you consider that the PA now includes Hamas, and Obama totally ignores that.
CalMark| 5.19.11 @ 5:01PM
Why do so many people here HATE Israel so much?
Granted, Israel came into being under a dirty deal. However, the Palestinians simply ran away, into the arms of their fellow Muslims, like a sissy running to his big-bully friend. The plan was to wipe out Israel at their leisure and re-install the Palestinians.
However, the Arabs have lost a whole bunch of wars against Israel, fair and square. If "cut, run, and fight later" is your strategy, you have no right to anything if you keep losing wars.
Through their own stupidity and their protectors' subsequent lack of success, the Palestinians long ago lost any moral claim they might have had.
Oldefarte| 5.19.11 @ 5:06PM
No, but you did set me off with your apparent complete UNTRUTH [ncatty| 5.19.11 @ 4:33PMGreat, Obama is channeling Bush. The blind leading the blind (oops, I may have set Margie off again]. Possibly you should consider dropping the '''c''''' in your moniker?????
Marc Jeric| 5.19.11 @ 5:10PM
What did you expect that marxist Muslim would do? His name should properly be, not Obama, but Abu Hussein al-Nairobi. If he manufactures a second term (which is just about certain, given his system of local soviets, i.e., community organizations and unions), the old USA will be dead and a new United Soviet Socialist States of America will be born. For stability purposes and to fight back the reactionary capitalist forces Obama will reluctantly accept a lifetime appointment as our benevolent dictator - you remember Uncle Stalin?
SoCon| 5.19.11 @ 5:33PM
I've believed everything you've written here over the years, MJ. I always knew you were right because you spoke from experience.
One difference here though: The 2nd Amendment.
simon templar| 5.19.11 @ 5:42PM
It really is a sad day that I have to go to foreign news sources (New Zealand, India, Isreal) to get the full story because our state run media and our Jew hating American Left just can not wait until Israel is wiped off the map and will say and do anything that ushers it along. Below is an excerpt:
But Netanyahu, who will meet with Obama tomorrow and address a joint session of Congress next week, rejected the US leader's call, and urged Washington to endorse a 2004 letter authored by Bush.
The letter acknowledged "new realities on the ground," and said a "full and complete return" to the 1967 borders would be "unrealistic."
"Prime Minister Netanyahu expects to hear a reaffirmation from President Obama of US commitments made to Israel in 2004, which were overwhelmingly supported by both Houses of Congress," Netanyahu's statement said.
NoBama| 5.19.11 @ 5:51PM
Glenn Beck is an excellent source for the truth.
DRed| 5.19.11 @ 5:52PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05.....l?_r=1&hp;
Is the New York Times based in New Zealand, India or Israel? I get confused.
Cpm| 5.19.11 @ 6:05PM
Palestinians think Israel has no right to ANY land, so retreating to 1967 borders won't have any effect at all. Is anybody in this administration thinking?
My Girl Friday| 5.19.11 @ 6:17PM
In March, of 2010 after Obama failed to extract a written promise of concessions on settlements from Prime Minister Netanyahu, Obama walked out of the meeting and stated ...call me when you have changed your mind....or something along those lines. Then to further humiliate a key ally, Obama did not allow posing for photographers. Obama was hoping then as he is now that he could undermine the support in Israel for Prime Minister Netanyahu's but just the opposite happened. We can all note after that March 2010 snubbing by Obama we saw the beginning of the Middle East unraveling. Obama was giving tacit approval to Israel's enemies that he would look the other way at any aggressions they made towards Israel. Now we have Obama setting up Netanyahu before he has even arrived to the negotiating table. What this low level community organizer is doing is placing millions of innocents at risk. Everyone and I mean everyone should be outraged at this morally deprived vagabond. I ask what shall Obama's encore be, now that he has decided to bring a flame thrower to the pre-negotiations. I am still in shock, it is stunning that this man has the audacity to tell Israel to surrender to people who wish to slaughter them from this earth. Dear people of Israel if you can hear us DO NOT TRUST OBAMA.
Southern| 5.19.11 @ 6:22PM
Oh, I think the Israelis have gotten the message loud and clear!
Lev| 5.19.11 @ 8:42PM
Key ally? the UK is a key ally. about half of NATO. Japan, where we have bases etc.
We are Israel's ally, not the other way around. And they're bloody lucky to have us, we're all that's left. Please wake up.
NoBama| 5.19.11 @ 9:49PM
You're ignorant and wrong. Israel is the only real ally we have in the Middle East. Too bad Obama just tried to throw them under the bus.
He will pay at the polls for this deceitful, boneheaded move. I can't wait to kick this fool out of the White House in 2012.
Lev| 5.20.11 @ 2:52AM
thanks for your shallow, knee-jerk responses to each of my questions, none of which were addressed to you. I'm neither an anti-semite, nor a suicide bomber, I'm not a socialist and I don't hate anyone.
I can see your an anti-Obama hack and have nothing to offer, and clearly are unable to debate without slander and malice. A real asset to any debate.
NoBama| 5.20.11 @ 3:24AM
Just a few laughs--at your expense, Lev. You know, you liberals really should get a sense of humor: You're so tight-assed and miserable all of the time.
We Conservatives laugh all of the time--at Liberal clowns like you!
November, 2012 can't come soon enough.
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 9:59PM
Lev,
you are a National Socialist.
Mossad provides tremendous intelligence support; Haifa provides an excellent Med base for the USN. It goes on and on....
Tevi| 5.19.11 @ 7:56PM
"COME AGAIN?!?!?!?!? WHAT?!?!?!?!?!
In other words, Obama is now ready to advocate the next step of his plan to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth."
I know, isn't it just fake outrage shocking petal.
I mean, I haven't been this surprised since the previous Presidents had this same policy.
NoBama| 5.19.11 @ 8:12PM
If that's true why did GWB and the Republican Congress promise Israel that they wouldn't have to withdraw to the 1967 line?
Why do you lie?
Tevi| 5.19.11 @ 8:20PM
This would be GWB the founding father I guess.
So basically this week, those without the capacity to recall any events prior to 9/11 are just outraged about Newt supporting an individual mandate and Israel withdrawing to 1967 borders being the starting point for peace talks.
This won't last long, soon you will all be too busy playing the latest game craze Donkey Kong.
NoBama| 5.19.11 @ 9:50PM
This won't last long because we're going to kick Obama out of the White House in only 17 months!
Tevi| 5.19.11 @ 11:35PM
Hooray! Best of luck with that. This "we" comprising you, at least one other party a GOP candidate yet to be named.
NoBama| 5.19.11 @ 11:58PM
10% unemployment, $5 a gallon gas, the disaster in Libya and betraying Israel should be more than enough proof that Obama has been a complete and utter disaster.
Can't wait for November, 2012!!
Tevi| 5.20.11 @ 4:44AM
Libya? Oh that story that almost kept people interested for 3 weeks, yeah that'll be huge 18 months from now.
Oldefarte| 5.20.11 @ 10:33AM
You're correct about Libya, BUT as he states, $4/gallon and climbing gasoline fuel, the implementation of WELFARECARE, the current/historical budget/debt crisis, unemployment at 9% [15% for minorities], the real estate market in the crapper, the wasteful flushing of [non] stimulus spending upon shoring up governmental employment, the political attacks upon Arizona and Louisiana, etc are just a few examples of why taxpayer-voters will fininsh their work of November 2010 next year and remove/defeat the current office holder with Romney, Daniels, Pawlenty,Palin, or even Mickey Mouse as their candidate. Oh, and also fool, the 80% Jewish vote that ya boy received in 2008 is NO LONGER and NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NoBama| 5.20.11 @ 12:54PM
"It's the economy, stupid!" Remember that, Tevi?
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 10:04PM
Neither can I, NoBama my brother.
Mill| 5.20.11 @ 1:20AM
This is not 1991. Iraq is obviously no longer a threat to Israel or anybody. Nobody is going to attack Israel from the Jordan river and even if they did they would have to cross the mountains of the West Bank. The mountains that pretty much defined the West Bank's pre-1967 borders in the first place. The mountains themselves which consist of a much better 'defensible border' given their high vantage point (hey that excuse works for Golan, right?).
Nobody except the Israeli conservative right "knows that" by the way. 2/3 of Israelis are in favor of a 2-state solution with 1967 borders + land swap and always have been.
Now the teen and young adult Israeli youth who have grown up only knowing the occupation over there and the suicide bombings, etc. are taking a very racist and narrow view point regarding Palestinians. These are the equivilent of the 'facebook' generation which is often mentioned in the Arab spring. Meanwhile you have many more Palestinians youths who have only known occupation and violence and have an intense hatred. They outnumber their Israeli counterparts. There is strength in numbers. You do not want them to grow up and be hateful to Israelis.
Israel is on an unsustainable and self destructive path. It will not last another decade like this, we're surprised it has last as long as it has. Please stop giving passionate devotion to the situation, you have absolutely no idea what is really going on.
NoBama| 5.20.11 @ 3:06AM
The entire Middle East is consumed with hatred and violence because Islam is itself full of hatred and violence. They treat their women worse than their dogs.
It's ugly that you try to blame Muslim hatred on Israel; ugly and self-serving.
There's nothing new about nauseating anti-Semites like you, I'm sure your sentiments abounded in pre-Hitler Germany, too.
Becky| 5.20.11 @ 6:52PM
So, trying to interject some facts regarding borders and the sociological consequences of prolonged living in occupied territories is "anti-Semitic" and can only be "cured" with some hating on Islam? Oh please!! Learn the difference between "anti-Semitic" and "anti-Zionist".
NoBama| 5.20.11 @ 7:02PM
What facts, moron? You hate Israel, we get it.
Becky| 5.20.11 @ 7:34PM
No, I don't hate Israel. You get nothing, especially the concept of a "fact". Tell you what, do a google search on "Israel" and "1967 borders" and you will see some pretty maps so you could see the mountain regions. Or is geography too subjective for you?
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 10:02PM
15 KM at the narrowest point. Daiainoo.
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 10:01PM
Dear Becky,
it is usually safe to assume that they are one and the same. In other words, I don't trust you with the safety of my kids.
Becky| 5.21.11 @ 2:18PM
Dear Tool,
I'm a person online who has a different opinion than you have. I don't know your kids and I'm certainly in no position to have any effect on the safety of your children. Your statement and your fears really doesn't make any sense, but if it makes you feel any better... if I saw a kid start to step out into oncoming traffic, I'd do whatever I could to pull that child to safety, whether or not it was yours. Better now?
RonL| 5.21.11 @ 4:52AM
I really don;t know where to begin. Iraq is not a threat, but Iran building nuclear weapons is.
In 2005, one could have said that no one would attack Israel from the Sinai. Since then Hamas took Gaza and has used it to rocket much of Southern Israel. With the West Bank, they could hit virtually all of Israel. And let us remember that the Hashemite rulers of Jordan could be offed by the Muslim Brotherhood as easily as their cousins were offed by nationalists in the 1950s.
The Arab Spring with which you are enamored is empowering the Muslim Brotherhood, which openly wants to use Egypt to attack Israel.
Becky| 5.20.11 @ 6:31PM
What's really outrageous is the way you totally bastardized the original article with your hyper-editing and hyperbole! The original article is here:
http://www.outsidethebeltway.c.....ntroversy/
Becky| 5.20.11 @ 6:35PM
btw... the original title of the article:
Obama’s Reference To Israel’s 1967 Borders Creates Faux Controversy
http://www.outsidethebeltway.c.....ntroversy/
NoBama| 5.20.11 @ 7:01PM
Go back to the dirtbags at HuffPo, Bucky--it's where morons like you belong.
Becky| 5.20.11 @ 7:45PM
NoBama, you are against everything President Obama says or does. I get that. The "article" in this blog was taken from another source and edited for bias without ever giving credit to the original article is something you don't care about. I get that too and understand that you don't care that it's called plagiarism. NoBama, the things that YOU do not know or care about do not make me a moron... but the name calling is apparently all you can say. I get, as in understand, that too.
NoBama| 5.20.11 @ 8:28PM
You worship at the altar of Obama and are blind to the destruction he is visiting upon our country. Stop swilling Obama Kool-Aid and get a clue.
Please go away, Bucky.
Occam's Tool| 5.20.11 @ 10:03PM
Actually, Becky, the ignorance you show in stating that antizionism is not usually a form of antisemitism DOES make you a moron.
I know who my enemies are, and who my friends are. Stay away from my kids, scumbag.
Becky| 5.21.11 @ 2:08PM
Occam's Tool: No, anti-Zionism is NOT the same as anti-Semitic. However, if you do truly believe that they are the same and interchangeable, then you must also believe that criticizing US policies is the same as being anti-American or "un-American", right? I'd bet that you don't like everything (anything?) our President says and does, but you probably think of yourself as quite the "patriot", right? So what is the difference? How is it that you are such the patriot for your criticisms but my criticism of some Israeli policies makes me a "hater" of the Jewish people or against them having a homeland? If that logic is too much for you to grasp, then I suppose you have no other choice but to continue to call me a moron, ignorant and a scumbag. Oh, it would seem that you and I are also "enemies" too and that I'm some sort of "threat" to your children because we have different political opinions? Wow!
NoBama| 5.21.11 @ 9:07PM
That cuts both ways, Becky. Did you vote for George W Bush? Did you like GWB, and did you like all of his policies? If you disagreed with GWB's policies did you consider yourself unAmerican or unpatriotic?
Another thing, many people wish destruction on Israel and sometimes it's difficult to tell the difference between those who have honest disagreements and those who are anti-Semitic haters.
I'll take you at your word but I think you're woefully naive to believe Israel could ever be safe with a part of their country only 8 or 9 miles wide. It didn't work before, why would it work now?
Becky| 5.21.11 @ 9:39PM
NoBama: That's exactly the point that I was making in saying that my disagreement with some of Israel's policies does not make me anti-Semitic anymore than either of us disagreeing with a President's policies makes us un-American. I'm glad we can understand each other better and get beyond the name calling.
What Obama said was 1967 borders with agreed upon land swaps, as in 1967 borders as a starting point and land swaps to work out mutually agreed upon borders that secure the State of Israel and establish a State of Palestine (there is no Palestine now, just occupied territories). That is NOT "Obama wiping Israel off the map"! Actually, it's not really different than what's been proposed over the past 12 years, but it is a bit more precise in making it clear that the newly created state of Palestine would border Egypt, Jordan and Israel and Israel would border Palestine. If you haven't already done so, the link I posted was to the original article and you can see the difference between the original article and what is posted here. It's a big difference between the two and pointing that out is in no way anti-Semitic.
NoBama| 5.22.11 @ 12:46AM
Obama should have talked to Bibi before he took Israel's one bargaining chip off the table. It's easy for Obama to give away the farm, he doesn't have to live there.
Obama did himself no favors by inviting the public dressing-down he got from the Israeli leader.
Obama looked very weak. I believe this incident will hurt his re-election chances.
Becky| 5.24.11 @ 2:40AM
I don't think Obama took any bargaining chip off the table but instead clarified where the focus needs to be in negotiating. The recent focus on settlements led to nothing more than stalemate and stalling of negotiations.
I certainly agree that Bibi did publicly dress down President Obama, but I don't think it necessarily made Obama look weak. I do think it forced Bibi's hand a bit in the sense of moving him off the dime and that's really not a bad thing. Case in point is that Bibi's said he can't negotiate with Fattah (formerly the PLO) because they don't represent the majority of the Palestinian people then, after Fattah and Hamas came to agreement, he said he can't negotiate with Hamas. I think the majority of the people living in Israel and the occupied territories do want peace, but Bibi has not come across that HE wants peace and is willing to negotiate for that peace. Now it seems that Bibi's warmed up and coming around a bit.
I doubt this will hurt Obama's re-election chances with anyone who would consider voting for him in the first place. Obama's speech at AIPAC today, emphasizing that mutually agreed upon land swaps would make the resulting borders quite different from the starting point of 1967 borders, was pretty well received. He's also make it clear that the US will NOT back the resolution to be brought to the UN in the fall requesting recognition of an independent State of Palestine. That's basically symbolic and meaningless if there are not agreed upon borders. I'll be interested to hear what Bibi he has to say to Congress tomorrow (later today?)
NoBama| 5.24.11 @ 1:24PM
You're obviously in the tank for Obama which prevents you from acknowledging reality.
Obama is the first American president to take Israel's one bargaining chip (1967 borders) off the table. It had nothing to do with clarification but everything to do with bullying the Israelis into accepting indefensible borders. Didn't work out too well for Obama; Bibi thrashed him in the White House in front of millions worldwide.
This will surely hurt Obama's chances with the independents, a group he needs to win in 2012.
Independents are already furious over the terribly high unemployment rate and outrageous gas prices.
"It's the economy stupid!!" rings true today. Obama is failing mightily on that score, too.
NoBama| 5.24.11 @ 1:28PM
Hamas has called for the destruction of Israel and you say Bibi doesn't want peace? You truly are a clown.
Becky| 5.25.11 @ 4:19PM
No, it was not about bullying the Israelis into accepting indefensible borders. What part of "1967 borders with mutually agreed upon land swaps" do you not get? Oh yeah, the WITH MUTUALLY AGREED UPON LAND SWAPS part.
NoBama| 5.25.11 @ 9:19PM
What is it about NO mutually agreed upon 1967 borders that you don't or pretend not to get?
The only thing that matters is the border and Obama's trying to force indefensible borders on Israel.
The swaps are nebulous, therefore irrelevant. Obama sneakily threw Israel under the bus.
Obama's a loutish fool--did you catch his disastrous faux pas in front of the Queen of England and the entire world? He's obviously in over his head--way over his head. What a freakin' backward clown! LMAO!!
NoBama| 5.25.11 @ 9:22PM
Oh, Becky, about Obama's speech and probable blowback--even democrats like Harry Reed are rejecting Obama over this debacle. Big donors, too. Looks like I'm right.
Becky| 5.27.11 @ 10:52AM
Again... Obama said "1967 borders with mutually agreed upon land swaps". Emphasis on "WITH MUTUALLY AGREED UPON LAND SWAPS". That means that Obama is NOT "forcing indefensible borders on Israel" because Israel is NOT going to agree to any land swaps unless it results in Israel having defensible borders. In addition to saying "... with mutually agreed upon land swaps", Obama also said the goal was "A SECURE ISRAEL". Even the plagiarizer who posted this bastardized version of the original article didn't cut that part out.
No, the swaps are not nebulous, they are to be mutually agreed upon and result in new, clearly defined borders that concretely define the boundaries of the state of Israel and establish a separate state of Palestine. It's called the two-state solution and it is not a new proposal.