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Mukasey Responds to McCain on Torture

By Joseph Lawler on 5.13.11 @ 8:19AM

Former attorney general Michael Mukasey has responded to the assertions John McCain has made over the past few days regarding the effectiveness and legality of torture. McCain had claimed that Mukasey had wrongly stated that waterboarding and other such interrogation methods had led to the killing of Osama bin Laden, implying that Mukasey was dishonest or misled. Mukasey fires right back:

Senator McCain described as "false" my statement that Khalid Sheik Mohammed broke under harsh interrogation that included waterboarding, and disclosed a torrent of information that included the nickname of Osama bin Laden's courier. He strongly implied in the remainder of his column in the Washington Post that this harsh interrogation was not only useless but also illegal. He is simply incorrect on all three counts.

KSM disclosed the nickname - al Kuwaiti - along with a wealth of other information, some of which was used to stop terror plots then in progress. He did so after refusing to answer questions and, when asked if further plots were afoot, said that his interrogators would eventually find out. Another detainee, captured in Iraq, disclosed that al Kuwaiti was a trusted operative of KSM's successor, abu Faraj al-Libbi. When al-Libbi went so far as to deny even knowing the man, his importance became obvious.

Both former CIA Director Michael Hayden and former Director of National Intelligence Admiral Michael McConnell have acknowledged repeatedly that up to 2006, many of the valuable leads pursued by the intelligence community came from the three prisoners who were subjected to harsh techniques that included waterboarding in order to secure their cooperation.

So far as the waterboarding technique used by CIA operators, as outlined in the memoranda released by the Department of Justice, it was entirely legal at the time, which is to say before the passage of later statutes in 2005 and 2006, by which time it was no longer in use and under which it has not been evaluated.

In other words, the harsh interrogation techniques were both effective and lawful.

McCain's (and CIA director Leon Panetta's) narrative differs from Mukasey's on the facts regarding the effectiveness of waterboarding, and it's not clear whose story is more accurate. But Mukasey hasn't addressed McCain's objection that the methods used on Khalid Sheikh Mohammed were immoral, not just ineffective.

View all comments (19) | Leave a comment

Wayne | 5.13.11 @ 8:33AM

Why is Mc Cain so concerned about torture (as he defines it), but is not concerned about killing an unarmed man? Lets say the agent like Jack Bauer shot OBL in the knee, would that have enraged Mc Cain instead? Peoples selective attention sometimes amazes me.

Zbigniew Mazurak| 5.13.11 @ 8:36AM

Leon Panetta has clearly stated that neither KSM nor any of the other waterboarded people provided any info about OBL's courier or any information about him. Because Panetta ran the entire operation (and risked his credibility and his job to conduct it and achieve the goal of eliminating OBL), I think he's more credible on this one than either Mukasey (who left the government in 2009) or McCain.

The waterboarded KSM did reveal a lot of valuable information, but the name of OBL's courier was not one such information.

Wayne | 5.13.11 @ 9:12AM

If it suits the purpose of his boss, Panetta will lie.

CalMark| 5.13.11 @ 12:36PM

Panetta = Democrat = liar.

Leslie| 5.13.11 @ 1:04PM

ZM, Panetta said no such thing. Waterboarding KSM and al Libi gave us vital information that directly led to bin Laden.

Waterboarding KSM also prevented al Qaeda attacks in Los Angeles which saved many American lives.

deadite| 5.13.11 @ 10:05AM

Zbigniew needs to qualify his statement. Yes, its true that the name of Osama's courier was not gained during enhanced interrogation. But his pseudonym was. As well as other information. I chose the first link off google.

I don't know what Mr. Lawler's issue. Why does Mr. Mukasey have to answer McCain's comments on whether its moral to apply water gargling? McCain has long had a problem where when something has personally affected him, that he over reacts. McCain almost went down as part of the Keating Five - he responds by imposing restrictions on free speech. McCain was actually tortured (not forced to gargle water). He responds by calling anything that freaks our enemies in custody out torture.

So, let me ask Mr. Lawler and Mr. McCain - is it immoral to prepare our soldiers for capture by the enemy by using water boarding on them? Is it immoral to get information that will save lives by water boarding (or any other effort that does not impose real physical harm?) I must be old fashioned, but I try to put in perspective what humanity has done to each other over the last 5K years, and I think that its moral to try to protect the society we have by prying out info through enhanced water gargling...

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/.....aden-raid/

Occam's Tool| 5.13.11 @ 10:33AM

Hmm...If they ripped out KSM's eyeballs slowly, using suction cups, to get the info we need, I wouldn't give a damn.

Quite frankly, guys, I've dealt with more psychopaths in highly annoying situations than most of you folks have. This guy was an illegal enemy combatant, deliberately operating outside of the rules of war, and targetting civilians, not military (to give an opposite example, the King David Hotel WAS a British military headquarters, and Irgun DID give warning to try to minimize casualties.)---they have no Geneva rights we are obliged to respect. A simple way to get the job done would be to put him in a container, start filling it with lard, and let him watch it come up to drowning level. Leasve him covered in it a minute, then haul him out and repeat. Waterboarding did him no permanent harm, and got the info we needed. We were soft, but effective. Leave it lying there. Myself, I believe in nuking them into surrender. I think we should be fighting to win, and win quickly. These assholes are interfering with my leisure activities. They deserve death.

Occam's Tool| 5.13.11 @ 10:35AM

And if you are asking me if I would endorse mass murder of Islamofascist civilians to win, the answer is yes. I don't feel the need to justify myself to child raping/ maiming vermin.

The problem with us is that we care what they think. Believe me, the concern is not returned.

Occam's Tool| 5.13.11 @ 10:37AM

My apologies--I went from singular to plural there. It should be, "he has no Geneva rights we are bound to respect, and neither do his colleagues."

Al Adab| 5.13.11 @ 11:29AM

As I wrote yesterday OT, this is one issue where even non fans of McCain should cut him some slack. His experience has earned him the right to take this stand even if, as I believe, he is wrong. He is free to speak, and we are free not to agree. Just let this one be.

simon templar| 5.13.11 @ 12:03PM

I would love to let this be as we have even more pressing issues. The problem here is we are in a war, a very serious war with an enemy that follows no rules, no morality and no flag. It is a lawless, vast, and insidious disease that is covert and conspiritorial. I think it is very inappropriate for McCain to politicize this and openly bring out and encourage divisiveness within this nation over it during this time. Maybe we should ask McCain, what is more immoral...not using harsh and forceful interrogation and letting 100, 00o people die or using it on one man to save those 100,000 people. The torture that Mccain suffered was not even comparable to the practice of waterboarding. He suffered permanent damage and pain and suffering 20 times what these fools suffered for no good reason but for the sick entertainment and revenge of his captors. They knew he knew nothing of vital importance. That is tortue...that is immorality. To call these techniques tortue is ridiculous and insane. Is loud music torture, lack of sleep or bright lights? What about shouting in their face? What McCain should be doing is overseeing these techniques so that they do not cross over that line to torture wherby they are used as a rule rather than an exception and have no purpose but to do permanant harm.

simon templar| 5.13.11 @ 12:12PM

By the way..about him earning some right to speak out about this as he does. He is a leader in this nation not only a citizen. He has direct responsibilities to protect this nation...as protection of this nation is the central purpose of government. He has the responsibility and duty to balance his personal experiences with the realities in front of us and his duty to protect. If he can not do this due to his strong experiences and can not remain unbiased perhaps he should not be a senator.

simon templar| 5.13.11 @ 12:19PM

Meant to say, What McCain should be doing is overseeing these techniques so that they do not cross over that line to torture and that they are NOT used as a rule rather than an exception and have no purpose but to do permanant harm.

Al Adab| 5.13.11 @ 1:16PM

Simon (saint):
That is not a bad idea. Perhaps it is McCain, rather than a failed Gov. of his state, who should be head of homeland security (hate the name). His function as Senator is mostly irrelevant at this stage. It would be a worthwhile promotion. Keep that in mind Republican President.

Quartermaster| 5.13.11 @ 10:27PM

Heaven help the US if that senile inane idiot is "promoted" by a Rep Prez. Juan needs to go home and stay there while he goes to pieces, rather than giving us the benefit of his insanity.

SpiralArchitect| 5.13.11 @ 1:15PM

His experience has earned him the right to take this stand

Thanks for the information. It was never made clear to me that someone had to earn the right to take a position on any issue - right, wrong or irrellevant.

Al Adab| 5.13.11 @ 1:20PM

No one does, you are correct. Perhaps it would be better to say we should make allowances for his experience when he speaks to this issue. Again, we are not obligated to agree.

DANSHANTEAL| 5.14.11 @ 3:01PM

I'm a McCain fan but support Mukasey's view.
Is water torture immoral? what are you a theolgian? Just because we're a free society, doesn't mean we have to act stupidly.