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The Spectacle Blog
Is Ron Paul the next “pro-immigration libertarian” to bedevil conservatives? VDare’s Washington Watcher columnist surveys Liberty Defined, Paul’s latest book, and finds a “tragic turnaround on immigration.” In an email to supporters of his PAC Friday, Tom Tancredo accused his former congressional colleague and fellow 2008 Republican presidential candidate of doing a “180 turn” on immigration and “standing with La Raza and the Chamber of Commerce.”
“I have served with Ron Paul in Congress for ten years and consider him a friend,” Tancredo continued. “While we have differed very publicly on issues such as the threat of Radical Islam, he had generally been an ally on immigration in Congress. He was a solid vote against amnesty, a leader in ending birthright citizenship, and joined my Immigration Reform Caucus.”
According to these critics (I haven’t read Liberty Defined yet), in his book Paul repeats cliches about illegal aliens only doing jobs Americans won’t do, canards about using the Army for mass deportations, and comes out for some kind of “generous visitor worker program” that bars participants from receiving government benefits. Paul remains opposed to amnesty — though Tancredo characterizes this last position as “amnesty with an ‘asterisk’” — and birthright citizenship, but is also against Arizona’s SB 1070, E-Verify, and employer sanctions against hiring illegal aliens.
What has long separated Paul from open-borders libertarians is his belief in borders and national sovereignty, plus his agreement with Milton Friedman that a welfare state cannot have unlimited immigration. But he has never to my knowledge been interested in restrictionism per se, though as a Rothbardian he ought to be familiar with libertarian arguments for it, and some of these positions that offend immigration restrictionists are nothing new. There are also legitimate civil libertarian concerns with some of the restrictionists’ pet legislation, like Real ID.
But if these Liberty Defined summaries are accurate, it does represent a shift in Paul’s immigration rhetoric away from the classic paleo position, perhaps in anticipation of competition with the more conventionally open-borders libertarian Republican Gary Johnson. Dan McCarthy worried last year that “instead of the Johnson-Paul tag team making anti-statist and anti-interventionist views more mainstream, Johnson might sidetrack Paul into discussions that would make it easier for the party establishment to marginalize both of them.” We’ll see.
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More Blog Posts by W. James Antle, III
http://spectator.org/blog/2011/05/02/has-ron-paul-done
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Eric Dondero | 5.2.11 @ 11:19AM
Just last week a court in South Texas near Brownsville, sentenced a Somali to 10 years in prison for smuggling Al Qaeda-linked Middle-Easterners into the United States.
Ron Paul's congressional district includes an area just 3 hours drive from the Mexican border.
How terribly ironic that he would not see Islamism as a threat to national security, when Al Qaeda is operating so close to his home, and the homes of his District 14 constitutents (of which I am one).
How doubly ironic that he has now shifted positions and aligned with the open borders side of our libertarian movement.
It's almost like he's saying, Radical Islam is no threat to the US, and to prove it, we ought to just completely open the Border with Mexico, and let anyone in.
Dither Robotelli| 5.2.11 @ 1:01PM
Mr. Dondero is still bitter about being fired by Ron Paul for his neocon warmongering.
Gary C. Huggins| 5.2.11 @ 3:26PM
Eric Dondero is a former Paul employee and faux-libertarian. Good riddance Eric.
Mitch Connor | 5.2.11 @ 6:28PM
http://bp3.blogger.com/_SbqLWX.....o_stud.jpg
Micah| 5.3.11 @ 3:09AM
"Radical Islam" would not be a threat if we brought an end to our occupation and perpetual war in the Middle East.Personally I believe we should have open borders. However, we would have to end the drug wars and the welfare state for it to work.I believe that all people should look at their ancestry before they oppose immigration.Unless you are 100% Native American your ancestors were imigrants.As far as illegals being able to receive welfare benefits we should question what right American citizens have to OPM aka "Other Peoples Money".
Texas Chris| 5.3.11 @ 10:20AM
[Like]
Texas Chris| 5.3.11 @ 10:19AM
"How doubly ironic that he has now shifted positions and aligned with the open borders side of our libertarian movement." ~Eric Dondero
"A nation without borders is no nation at all." ~Ron Paul
"1.Physically secure our borders and coastlines." ~Ron Paul
Once again, Eric, you have been sent home by Ron Paul.
GabeNTx| 5.2.11 @ 11:42AM
I think people don't look at the problem closely enough. Sure we don't want illegals here. but its a bit late to implement this plan on the millions already living here. We should secure our borders as soon as possible, but how can we effectively deport these millions of illegals? We need them to pay taxes not get benefits from the govt. This is the common sense solution. Ron Paul is right. Tancredo needs to go back to sleep.
Chris| 5.2.11 @ 2:32PM
The word you are looking for is attrition. Secure the border and employment verification and illegals will start to leave.
Also, most are never going to pay significant taxes because the don't earn enough to be more than a benefit drain.
Joel Wischkaemper| 5.2.11 @ 8:31PM
I don't agree. We don't need them to pay taxes, and in fact, a majority of them do not which is exactly why we pay some 348 billion a year in welfare to the illegal aliens. Their lack of education is very high, and the thought they they some day pay taxes is almost silly.
Deport them? If we implement E Verify as well as the Real I.D., or some sort of secure I.D., they will not get jobs, and they will not be able to get welfare. They will have to leave. But since we have more coming north for all that we deport, in reality, the illegal aliens will simply fade away over a three or four year period. And Tancredo is correct.. Ron Paul needs to go back to sleep.
azwayne| 5.4.11 @ 2:21AM
Ot's not that difficult at all. Get the fence up make sure it is secure. Start hauling the illegals to the one way gate and send them off. When they see US means business half will be gone on their own, but we better show some force pretty quick or we'll have all the cartels in the us.
Dr. Kibble| 5.2.11 @ 11:46AM
It would be much better if the author had waited a day or so, purchased/borrowed Ron Paul's book 'Liberty Defined', read it, and then posted his commentary...rather than taking the summary of others and pawning it off as true or semi-true.
Just last week John Stossel did a full episode of his show featuring Ron Paul and Ron said the same things he has always said about immigration. No amnesty. You can do better than this Mr. Antle.
iamse7en| 5.2.11 @ 12:06PM
Exactly. This is a gross extrapolation of his chapter on Immigration.
princeliberty| 5.2.11 @ 1:10PM
Tancredo is slandering Paul. Paul has the same anti-illegal immigration and pro-lawful immigration belief he always has had. Tancredo has become a tool of the establishment. Tancredo supported TARP and since being attacking rather than supporting Tea Party candidates.
Clint| 5.2.11 @ 12:10PM
Ron Paul’s six point plan on illegal immigration:
Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.
Chris| 5.2.11 @ 2:35PM
My plan to end visa overstays it to require all entrants to the country to post a bond. If you fail to leave, half the bond goes to the government, the order half goes to whoever finds the person and hands them over to ICE.
A private market for purchasing the bonds would probably weight the price based on the likely hood the entrant would not leave legally.
Sheila| 5.2.11 @ 12:13PM
I live in north Texas, too, Gabe, and your "concern" about illegals paying taxes is just sooo touching. Take away their jobs (by using E-verify and heavily fining their employers), take away their ID (do not accept Mexican-issued "matricula consular" and do not issue drivers' licenses) and take away their benefits - and those of their anchor baby children (no taxpayer funded emergency rooms or public schools) and "voila!" problems solved. Of course, I'm a hater and didn't "look at the problem closely enough." Diversity = chaos.
Dither Robotelli| 5.2.11 @ 1:04PM
Another "conservative" who wants to saddle employers with more bureaucracy, further restrict Americans' economic liberties, and implement a Nazi-like national ID card.
Warrior | 5.2.11 @ 3:13PM
Always love the liberal interjection into the discussion. However, dither is on to something. Let's start by doing away with the Nazi like regulations when it comes to the EPA and OSHA. Let's also do away with the DMV, because any wait in a DMV should be considered cruel and unusual punishment and why is it mandatory that I have to have the card they issue to drive anyway? Let's also forget bout the mandatory waiting period for guns and all the cumbersome paperwork associated with it. Let's drop the FDA, energy and education deparments. I could keep going but that's enough for now.
John Locke| 5.2.11 @ 6:09PM
You are absolutely right. FDA, EPA, gun waiting periods etc are tyrannical and harmful things which should be immediately abolished. But national ID card would be a truly totalitarian schemeand give the government even more power to control our lives and track our movement. If one wants to be consistent one has to oppose both national ID and all these socialistic Washington agencies. I am a Liberal and proud of it. Of course in modern discourse I call myself Libertarian since in America LIberal means Democratic Socialist.
Zbigniew Mazurak | 5.2.11 @ 12:47PM
Ha! Yet more proof that Ron Paul is a FAKE CONSERVATIVE. If he opposes even small-scale measures like AZ's SB1070, he is NOT a conservative.
Dither Robotelli| 5.2.11 @ 1:07PM
REAL CONSERVATIVES support Medicare Part D, aggressive war, torture, assassination, warrantless spying on Americans and suspension of habeas corpus. Ron Paul is a FAKE.
Clint| 5.2.11 @ 1:48PM
"Immigrants who can't be sent back...should not be given citizenship -- no amnesty should be granted."
----Ron Paul, Liberty Defined, pg 156
"Do not grant automatic citizenship to children of illegal immigrants born in the United States, deliberately or accidentally."
----Ron Paul, Liberty Defined, pg 155.
Gary C. Huggins| 5.2.11 @ 3:32PM
Ha! This remark proves that Zbigniew Mazurak is a FAKE AMERICAN. If he opposes a statesman who advocates the great American principles of individual liberty, constitutional government, sound money, free markets and a foreign policy of nonintervention, Zbigniew Mazurak is NOT an American!
Cathy| 5.2.11 @ 7:17PM
I don't know where you have the idea that he opposes Arizona's SB1070. I haven't heard him say that, and I see nothing in his book that says that.
Texas Chris| 5.3.11 @ 10:05AM
He says it could be used by law enforcement to harass law abiding citizens and circumvent the 5th Amendment. Some folks extrapolate that as being agains the bill... some see it as a constitutional stance.
Red Phillips | 5.2.11 @ 12:55PM
Paul was one of the first people to publically embrace ending "birthright citizenship," which is a huge key to fixing the immigration problem, and he deserves our gratitude for that. And I trust Paul not to enact amnesty. I don't think he has changed his positions on immigration materially, but I do think he has changed his position rhetorically which is unfortunate, and everyone here knows I am a big supporter of Ron Paul.
Paul is trying to walk a tight line between his ideological hardcore libertarian supporters who believe in the "free movement of peoples" for ideological reasons, and his populist right-wing supporters. The problem for Paul is that while the hardcore libertarian ideological jihadists can cause him a lot of problems on libertarian websites, but the votes Paul needs in Republican primaries are going to come from right-wing populists, not ideological hardcore libertarians.
This is part of a greater trend away from paleolibertarianism in general. Lew Rockwell, whose site was considered a home of such, has moved away from that position/coalition.
Cathy| 5.2.11 @ 7:26PM
Ron Paul says exactly what he means, and he doesn't have to "walk a tight line". I don't see that his position on immigration has changed.
Bob K.| 5.2.11 @ 1:27PM
The three most important events in American History were: (1) The westward Expansion. (2) The Civil War's result which saved the Union and (3) Mass Immigration after the Civil War.
The 1st 2 were and are self-limiting. We never came to terms with #3 and it remains unlimited because we continue to elect people who have little understanding of History, Economics, Democracy and Populism and how they interact with each other.
The voting populace can see the problems being caused by our leadership's failure to address the problems caused by unlimited Mass Immigration
because they live with the problems.
No Republican can win the Presidency by being wishy-washy on this issue.
Forget Paul and Johnson. If they won't lead on this issue they cannot win.
Texas Chris| 5.3.11 @ 10:07AM
Again, read Ron Paul's 6 point plan. If that isn't leadership on the issue, then it doesn't exist.
Seek| 5.2.11 @ 1:33PM
A full 180-degree turn? I'd say Rep. Ron Paul's evolution on immigration is more like a 45-, at most, a 90-degree turn. He was never in the camp of real immigration restrictionists like Tom Tancredo. This is because in his mind it is the State, his Eternal Enemy, that does the restricting. That pretty much is the position of the whole bunch at lewrockwell.com.
At his best, during the Nineties, Ron Paul was a fairly decent pastel version of Pat Buchanan-style immigration-restriction populism. But since then he's evolved into a standard-issue open-borders zealot for whom the labor needs of private-sector employers take precedence over all other considerations. Paul is good on a number of issues, but immigration just isn't one of them. The fact that he could be a lot worse is cold comfort.
Cathy| 5.2.11 @ 7:30PM
What part of no amnesty, no benefits for illegal immigrants, and no citizenship granted do you not understand?
Seek| 5.2.11 @ 7:46PM
Rep. Paul, as I have stated, was fairly good on the issue up until about a decade ago. But even then, he always qualified his view with a "Yes, but." Good Rothbardian that he always has been, opposition to the State is his trump card. And rather than assign a strong role to government for border, interior and visa enforcement, he makes every possible allowance for the "jobs Americans won't do" argument - anything to minimize the role of government.
Paul's recent assurance, "I believe in sovereignty," is empty. Hillary Clinton could have said as much. I want Paul to say a lot more; otherwise, he doesn't get my vote.
Texas Chris| 5.3.11 @ 10:10AM
Close the border, no more illegals coming in. Enforce visa's, send them home when it expires. End entitlements, the biggest reason they come.
These are 3 of the 6 points in Ron Paul's plan, and yet you do not support him?
K(yle)| 8.25.11 @ 7:02PM
He doesn't support 'enforcing' visas in any real terms. How would Paul 'enforce' them? You can't ask a 'guest worker' on the lamb if he's a guest worker, as that might infringe on someone's 'rights' to not be asked questions by the federal government.
How exactly is he going to end these entitlements as well? What's the actual strategy? We aren't allowed to track anyone within the country for the same reason we can't track down our visa overstays. So we can't target specifically illegal immigrants to end entitlements. So I presume he's talking about some fantasy scenario where he transforms the US into a Rothbardian utopia, which would basically require a military coup on his part.
"Ending entitlements" in general is not going to happen. It's not a "plan". It's a pipe dream. He has no intermediary stop-gap measure in mind for the purpose of preventing the demographic transformation of this country (and forever eradicating the political power of the only ethnic groups that actually care about constitutionalism, libertarianism, et cetera), while some theoretical multi-generational libertarian political shift happens (and the trend is actually going the opposite direction, towards more socialism).
So no, no one with half a brain would support that "plan".
WilliamR| 5.2.11 @ 2:35PM
Ron Paul Border Security
http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-.....-security/
JimH| 5.2.11 @ 2:46PM
It can be enlightening to read what someone says, rather than what someone says someone said.
Warrior | 5.2.11 @ 3:21PM
Mr. Antle: I always thought of you to be better than this. What you are doing here is exactly why journalism today is dead. You are not reporting on fact. You are taking hearsay from a 2nd source and attemtpting to create the illusion of fact. Why not pick up the book and read what he wrote or better yet call Ron Paul. I bet he would schedule a time to speak with you. You can then ask him directly what he wrote and what he meant. At that point, your opinion and article could be formed on reasoned opinion drawn from acquired facts. Unfortunately, you have chosen to be intellectually lazy. Attacking Congressman Paul in this manner may get you cheap blog entries, but it also tarnishes your reputation and integrity.
Texas Chris| 5.3.11 @ 10:11AM
(I haven't read Liberty Defined yet), says it all...
Shawn| 5.2.11 @ 3:38PM
Close the border. Offer all illegals a cash payment equal to a year of the benefits they're currently receiving and a complete pardon for all non-violent offenses they have committed in the US for leaving voluntarily within 3 months. Punish all who remain or come after the border is closed. Require employers to use E-verify, punish employers who hire illegals in any capacity whatever. Sit back and watch them go home.
Occam's Tool| 5.2.11 @ 4:02PM
Adopt the New Zealand approach to immigrants (not their Fiji Islander approach, but how they look at people from, say, the USA). Shoot to kill illegals, or violently deport them missing genitalia. Build the wall. Enforce the wall.
By the way, my two ADOPTED babies were adopted from Guatemala. They are Mayan Indians. They came in legally and appropriately, cleared by immigration. I also earned my New Zealand Permanent Residency status, as well. I was being recruited to run for Parliament for National, as well.
I don't care for much in NZed, but they handled their immigration problem perfectly. So can we, with a bit of bloody mindedness, and appropriate ruthlessness. New Zealand looked for needed skills. We can always use a high degree of talent.
George Patton| 5.2.11 @ 5:48PM
Shoot to kill on the border now. Use helos and air power plus drones. Ask the question: "Feel Lucky?" Close all the cartel pot farms on the US side of the border now. Concurrently close all "medical marijuana" programs now. Take all illegal Mexicans out of US prisons and contract with private companies to run year round out door facilities to warehouse the illegals until someone from their home country comes to pay their way out. No payout, die. Word will get out--- if you get caught, you will die slowly. Don't break out laws. Here in the US, insurance companies tell hospitals "No emergency room care for uninsured non-citizens. Do it and lose your certifications and licensing to operate because you will lose your insurance." End of story. Employers who hire illegals? Tax penalties per worker hired. Force them into bankruptcy. They are stealing revenue from the government anyway in payroll taxes. And if they say they are paying payroll taxes then they are fools for hiring illegals in the first place. Health departments: crack down on restaurants using illegal Mexican labor based on TB immunization violations. Close the restaurants--- now. The new restaurants wont dare hire a mexican. We can get along with out mexican labor. A thousand ways to win the fight--- but you have to want to win. Arizona is just the beginning. Stop the debt ceiling from being raised and the amnesty fight wont have to continue.....big government benefits to illegals are necessary costs--- without benefits, no immigrant loyalty. It is the old Chicago dole. We can win this.
George Patton| 5.2.11 @ 5:52PM
Oh, by the way, bust the colleges and universities who give college kids course credits for working on amnesty issues. That is a violation of 501 c 3 status under the guise of "academic freedom". There should be a legal ban of students in graduate programs who are enrolled in internships in public school districts making documentary films about the "dream act"...propagandists for hire while invoking student status which is a cloak of their institutional 501 c 3 status where they are enrolled and the 501 c 3 status of the school district where they are employed. one lawsuit shuts this practice down---- the schools are federally funded! Time to choke their chains and stop this seditiousness.
Book Reader | 5.2.11 @ 6:06PM
Ron Paul's chapter on Immigration is exactly TEN pages. How about reading it instead of just speculating on his position. Amazon.com has overnight shipping if it's not at your local bookstore.
Texas Chris| 5.3.11 @ 10:12AM
Send me an email and I'll buy you a copy, since you obviously can't afford the even opinion you have now.
Robert Fallin| 5.2.11 @ 8:22PM
Listen to Ron Paul on John Stossel and judge for yourself.
http://www.dailypaul.com/16313.....l-ron-paul
I have no problem with his position as stated on Stossel and there no more "zero tolerance" Anglo in America. A Hispanic friend of mind, who felt his job was threatened, put it more succinctly, "Send 'em home in body bags."
William R| 5.2.11 @ 10:59PM
I picked up the book this evening and I don't know what Tancredo is talking about. Same Ron Paul its always been.
bill| 5.2.11 @ 11:05PM
Who in this land would be better to restore the constitution than Ron Paul? The enemies of the constitution will twist the truth anyway they can to discredit him. The debate is over. I follow Ron Paul President or not.
Ron Paul is President | 5.3.11 @ 12:04AM
Donderoooooo
Nobama| 5.3.11 @ 4:42AM
Ron Paul will NEVER be POTUS.
Texas Chris| 5.3.11 @ 10:13AM
Ron Paul is more presidential now than any man has been in the last 100 years.
Clint| 5.3.11 @ 6:14AM
Barack Obama will ALWAYS be ASSHAT.
delmar Jackson| 5.3.11 @ 9:50AM
Numbersusa downgraded paul to an F grade on immigration, and after reading their reasoning, as much as I admire Paul, I have to agree and will not be voting or working for Ron Paul this election.
Texas Chris| 5.3.11 @ 10:13AM
If you read his book you would change your mind. That was a hit piece. Lies.
David| 5.3.11 @ 2:17PM
Just finished the "Immigration" chapter of Paul's book. Both Tancredo and this article's author misrepresent what is there. Please read it, then update/rewrite.